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{\"word\": \"楷\", \"start\": 559.813, \"end\": 559.833, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"en\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,432 --> 00:00:30,618\n第 一 次 我 阿 伯 這 麼 沒 中 沒 中 就 已 經 起 來 了 來 謝 謝 劉 部 長 部 長 好 部 長 也 算 是 我 們 立 院 的 前 輩 不 過 今 天 本 席 真 的 以 嚴 肅 的 心 情 一 定 要 救 教 因 為 我 知 道 過 去 您 在 擔 任 委 員 的 時 候 特 別 關 心 消 防 員 的 權 益 2 0 1 9 年 消 防 法 相 關 的 修 法 退 讓 權 也 是 您 這 邊 有 大 力 促 成 本 席 先 予 以 肯 定 但 是 記 不 記 得\n\n2\n00:00:31,678 --> 00:00:51,404\n您 在 之 前 質 詢 內 政 部 長 徐 國 勇 的 時 候 , 當 時 就 有 提 到 消 防 員 人 力 不 足 、 短 缺 的 問 題 。 到 目 前 為 止 , 現 在 您 上 任 了 , 現 在 的 消 防 員 還 缺 多 少 ? 總 共 的 員 額 缺 多 少 ? 是 吧 ? 我 是 不 是 請 ? 來 。 一 千 三 百 多 位 。 一 千 三 百 多 位 。 部 長 , 我 們 什 麼 時 候 能 夠 補 齊 ?\n\n3\n00:00:55,832 --> 00:01:24,238\n我 們 剛 剛 署 長 在 面 對 委 員 質 詢 的 時 候 有 特 別 提 到 從 明 年 跟 後 年 開 始 我 們 希 望 每 一 年 補 足 的 人 數 是 1 0 0 0 人 左 右 希 望 在 明 後 年 可 以 補 足 但 是 這 中 間 我 們 還 是 有 很 多 努 力 的 方 案 就 像 我 剛 剛 跟 委 員 報 告 的 部 分 就 是 說 我 們 希 望 考 試 院 能 夠 協 助 我 們 讓 我 們 的 消 防 員 的 考 試 能 夠 入 局 率 提 高 那 這 樣 子 我 們 在 徵 集 比 較 多 願 意 參 加 這 個 消 防 大 家 團 隊 的 時 候 會 比 較 快 速 一 點\n\n4\n00:01:25,168 --> 00:01:33,255\n但 是 部 長 有 沒 有 去 了 解 您 說 好 明 年 後 年 所 以 有 把 握 明 年 後 年 兩 年 時 間 可 以 把 一 千 三 百 多 位 的 人 格 補 給\n\n5\n00:01:35,555 --> 00:01:56,087\n目 前 考 試 正 在 考 試 6 月 份 會 考 那 考 完 以 後 1 0 月 份 會 二 次 停 測 驗 明 年 1 月 份 會 入 訓 那 後 年 1 月 份 會 節 約 分 發 後 年 才 分 發 對 一 年 我 們 訓 練 時 間 是 一 年 所 以 現 在 做 的 事 情 真 的 能 夠 補 到\n\n6\n00:01:57,788 --> 00:02:26,650\n然 後 這 兩 年 還 有 有 一 些 消 防 員 代 退 退 休 離 開 所 以 真 的 要 補 齊 什 麼 時 候 能 夠 補 齊 我 這 樣 直 接 問 部 長 你 任 內 有 沒 有 信 心 能 夠 把 消 防 員 的 員 額 補 齊 因 為 這 在 2 0 1 9 年 你 當 時 質 詢 內 政 部 長 徐 國 勇 的 時 候 徐 國 勇 其 實 也 是 跟 你 講 一 樣 的 話 他 跟 你 講 說 委 員 我 們 現 在 在 訓 練 委 員 我 們 每 年 固 定 多 少 人 但 時 空 背 景 一 過 去 之 後 缺 額 還 是 在 啊\n\n7\n00:02:27,824 --> 00:02:28,584\n為 什 麼 消 防 員 會 有 缺 額 ： 有 可 能 其 中 一 個 原 因\n\n8\n00:02:55,074 --> 00:03:15,787\n就 確 實 過 去 到 現 在 不 管 是 火 神 的 眼 淚 也 好 或 說 消 防 員 他 們 的 一 個 權 益 也 好 我 就 比 較 直 接 請 教 2 0 2 3 年 的 時 候 當 時 因 為 大 火 發 生 消 防 員 也 有 想 要 組 工 會 的 一 個 聲 音 當 時 您 時 任 幹 事 長 您 講 到 的 是 說 態 度 保 留\n\n9\n00:03:16,778 --> 00:03:26,910\n所 以 也 被 外 界 質 疑 是 說 這 就 是 執 政 黨 的 態 度 那 您 現 在 擔 任 部 長 是 不 是 您 部 長 任 那 一 天 消 防 員 要 組 工 會 這 樣 的 事 情 是 不 可 能 的\n\n10\n00:03:28,093 --> 00:03:47,844\n我 想 這 樣 講 太 武 斷 了 第 一 個 目 前 您 願 意 考 慮 您 給 我 3 0 秒 鐘 第 一 個 我 們 請 我 們 的 次 長 先 跟 這 些 消 防 員 促 進 權 力 工 會 的 這 些 消 防 員 或 者 是 有 消 防 員 身 份 或 是 一 些 其 他 的 教 授 學 者 們 先 溝 通\n\n11\n00:03:49,165 --> 00:04:12,860\n就 是 我 們 所 在 乎 的 消 防 員 組 工 會 最 後 的 這 個 真 正 的 目 標 第 一 個 當 然 是 保 障 消 防 員 自 己 本 身 的 權 益 那 這 個 權 益 第 一 個 保 障 在 安 全 上 面 的 維 護 能 不 能 做 到 那 事 實 上 從 這 幾 次 的 火 災 看 出 來 在 安 全 維 護 上 面 的 我 們 做 的 不 夠 好 不 夠 精 準 那 我 們 會 來 努 力 改 進 同 時 我 剛 剛 也 跟 我 們 的 消 防 署 長 講 我 們 可 能 要 朝 著 科 技 化 還 有\n\n12\n00:04:15,822 --> 00:04:37,968\n我 們 未 來 在 做 火 災 調 查 的 時 候 不 要 只 有 調 查 火 災 發 生 的 原 因 還 要 調 查 消 防 員 進 去 出 來 或 是 所 有 在 執 行 的 層 次 當 中 有 沒 有 哪 一 些 是 現 行 的 科 技 或 是 現 行 的 這 個 制 度 上 面 我 們 可 以 補 足 的 部 分 因 為 我 們 必 須 要 跟 這 些 關 心 消 防 員 權 益 跟 關 心 消 防 員 的 朋 友 們 能 夠 對 話 的 話 一 定 要 端 出 我 們 自 己 想 要 做 什 麼\n\n13\n00:04:43,769 --> 00:05:00,388\n如 果 最 後 只 是 一 個 消 防 員 組 工 會 , 他 產 生 的 另 外 一 個 結 果 就 是 參 加 工 會 的 人 未 來 可 能 是 有 規 避 權 、 避 讓 權 或 者 是 其 他 的 罷 工 權 等 等 這 些 那 你 這 些 是 不 是 讓 那 一 些 沒 有 參 與 的 人 , 他 反 而 在 救 災 上 面 更 吃 緊\n\n14\n00:05:01,709 --> 00:05:26,515\n這 個 部 分 其 實 站 在 全 國 處 理 消 防 員 的 業 務 或 是 處 理 消 防 員 的 權 益 上 面 必 須 要 做 一 個 權 衡 所 以 我 們 很 務 實 的 面 對 他 對 我 們 要 非 常 完 整 的 面 對 他 來 處 理 這 個 方 案 那 我 們 會 繼 續 努 力 我 就 是 給 你 時 間 完 整 的 說 明 所 以 我 現 在 要 指 出 昨 天 您 去 新 竹 的 這 兩 位 永 銷 的 靈 堂 前 面 上 香 致 意\n\n15\n00:05:29,173 --> 00:05:56,921\n這 一 次 這 兩 位 永 銷 一 位 年 之 1 9 年 一 位 年 之 1 4 年 這 樣 的 狀 況 就 如 同 2 0 1 9 年 我 們 雖 然 有 修 正 所 謂 的 退 讓 權 但 是 消 防 員 在 第 一 線 遇 到 火 災 的 時 候 他 們 其 實 根 本 沒 有 退 避 空 間 嘛 那 你 也 提 到 是 說 要 加 強 科 技 的 部 分 那 就 變 成 是 說 當 消 防 員 進 入 到 火 災 現 場 的 時 候 其 實 他 們 不 知 道 他 們 面 臨 到 什 麼 樣 的 一 個 狀 況\n\n16\n00:05:58,430 --> 00:06:25,724\n我 個 人 認 為 其 實 這 兩 位 永 孝 也 許 他 們 不 應 該 在 這 一 次 他 們 也 許 可 以 避 免 不 要 上 身 火 寒 那 是 不 是 就 代 表 說 我 們 真 的 做 得 不 夠 那 再 者 更 科 技 的 方 法 我 們 已 經 講 過 多 久 了 沒 有 辦 法 有 一 個 確 實 各 縣 市 都 有 辦 法 的 一 個 都 有 辦 法 來 去 做 能 夠 掌 握 火 場 的 一 個 狀 況 還 有 最 終\n\n17\n00:06:29,502 --> 00:06:50,392\n如 果 現 在 工 會 他 沒 有 辦 法 一 步 到 位 但 至 少 我 們 消 防 的 消 防 法 的 職 安 專 章 現 在 已 經 要 訂 立 了 因 為 我 前 兩 天 質 詢 勞 動 部 部 長 的 時 候 勞 動 部 何 部 長 跟 我 們 講 是 說 內 政 部 現 在 在 做 研 擬 那 我 們 要 說 是 不 是 能 夠 把 消 防 員 納 入 職 安 法\n\n18\n00:06:51,243 --> 00:07:01,633\n因 為 過 去 來 講 最 重 要 的 是 職 安 法 才 能 夠 面 臨 到 不 管 是 我 們 的 這 些 人 員 的 訓 練 我 們 這 些 人 員 的 工 作 權 益 我 們 這 些 人 員 的 相 關 的 職 業 運 作 的 狀 況 才 能 夠 獲 得 保 障\n\n19\n00:07:08,639 --> 00:07:26,108\n可 是 如 果 說 你 沒 有 納 入 治 安 法 的 話 我 們 消 防 法 的 主 管 機 關 是 誰 是 中 央 是 我 們 消 防 署 地 方 是 消 防 局 那 我 們 相 關 的 僱 主 也 是 消 防 署 跟 消 防 局 那 就 會 有 球 員 監 裁 判 的 狀 況 所 以 我 現 在 比 較 想 直 接 請 教 什 麼 時 候 我 們 的\n\n20\n00:07:34,335 --> 00:07:36,036\n消 防 法 執 案 專 章 可 以 出 來\n\n21\n00:07:58,226 --> 00:08:23,408\n部 長 我 只 想 請 教 現 在 在 這 次 的 新 竹 大 火 裡 面 有 一 個 狀 況 就 是 現 在 的 豪 宅 越 蓋 越 多 有 很 多 縣 市 的 雲 梯 車 其 實 是 不 足 的 所 以 我 們 才 會 看 到 這 次 的 新 竹 市 的 大 火 到 最 後 居 然 是 要 拜 託 民 間 企 業 用 吊 車 來 去 協 助 把 高 樓 層 的 民 眾 給 疏 散 我 覺 得 這 未 來 可 能 面 臨 到 這 個 就 是 設 備 的 部 分\n\n22\n00:08:24,469 --> 00:08:51,237\n有 沒 有 盤 點 過 以 相 關 現 在 新 興 的 這 些 區 域 他 的 豪 宅 越 蓋 越 高 2 0 幾 樓 3 0 幾 樓 的 住 宅 匹 匹 皆 是 那 這 雲 梯 車 的 部 分 還 有 哪 些 縣 市 有 缺 報 告 委 員 除 了 現 有 的 縣 車 雲 梯 車 以 外 未 來 幾 年 這 個 計 畫 等 於 核 定 會 整 個 補 充 到 3 9 部 的 雲 梯 車 包 括 新 竹 市 會 有 5 0 公 尺 一 部\n\n23\n00:08:53,154 --> 00:08:58,797\n本 席 也 特 別 要 強 調 是 說 在 很 多 新 興 的 區 域 也 都 需 要 有 這 樣 子 一 個 高 樓 層 雲 梯 車 來 確 保 相 關 人 員 的 安 全 我 們 這 些 東 西 都 是 有 備 無 患\n\n24\n00:09:19,673 --> 00:09:19,833\n洪 孟 楷 議 員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4432\t30618\t第一次我阿伯這麼沒中沒中就已經起來了來 謝謝劉部長部長好部長也算是我們立院的前輩不過今天本席真的以嚴肅的心情一定要救教因為我知道過去您在擔任委員的時候特別關心消防員的權益2019年消防法相關的修法退讓權也是您這邊有大力促成本席先予以肯定但是記不記得\n31678\t51404\t您在之前質詢內政部長徐國勇的時候,當時就有提到消防員人力不足、短缺的問題。到目前為止,現在您上任了,現在的消防員還缺多少?總共的員額缺多少?是吧?我是不是請?來。一千三百多位。一千三百多位。部長,我們什麼時候能夠補齊?\n55832\t84238\t我們剛剛署長在面對委員質詢的時候有特別提到從明年跟後年開始我們希望每一年補足的人數是1000人左右希望在明後年可以補足但是這中間我們還是有很多努力的方案就像我剛剛跟委員報告的部分就是說我們希望考試院能夠協助我們讓我們的消防員的考試能夠入局率提高那這樣子我們在徵集比較多願意參加這個消防大家團隊的時候會比較快速一點\n85168\t93255\t但是部長有沒有去了解您說好明年後年所以有把握明年後年兩年時間可以把一千三百多位的人格補給\n95555\t116087\t目前考試正在考試6月份會考那考完以後10月份會二次停測驗明年1月份會入訓那後年1月份會節約分發後年才分發對一年我們訓練時間是一年所以現在做的事情真的能夠補到\n117788\t146650\t然後這兩年還有有一些消防員代退退休離開所以真的要補齊什麼時候能夠補齊我這樣直接問部長你任內有沒有信心能夠把消防員的員額補齊因為這在2019年你當時質詢內政部長徐國勇的時候徐國勇其實也是跟你講一樣的話他跟你講說委員我們現在在訓練委員我們每年固定多少人但時空背景一過去之後缺額還是在啊\n147824\t148584\t為什麼消防員會有缺額：有可能其中一個原因\n175074\t195787\t就確實過去到現在不管是火神的眼淚也好或說消防員他們的一個權益也好我就比較直接請教2023年的時候當時因為大火發生消防員也有想要組工會的一個聲音當時您時任幹事長您講到的是說態度保留\n196778\t206910\t所以也被外界質疑是說這就是執政黨的態度那您現在擔任部長是不是您部長任那一天消防員要組工會這樣的事情是不可能的\n208093\t227844\t我想這樣講 太武斷了 第一個目前 您願意考慮您給我30秒鐘 第一個我們請我們的次長先跟這些消防員促進權力工會的這些消防員或者是有消防員身份或是一些其他的教授學者們先溝通\n229165\t252860\t就是我們所在乎的消防員組工會最後的這個真正的目標第一個當然是保障消防員自己本身的權益那這個權益第一個保障在安全上面的維護能不能做到那事實上從這幾次的火災看出來在安全維護上面的我們做的不夠好不夠精準那我們會來努力改進同時我剛剛也跟我們的消防署長講我們可能要朝著科技化還有\n255822\t277968\t我們未來在做火災調查的時候不要只有調查火災發生的原因還要調查消防員進去出來或是所有在執行的層次當中有沒有哪一些是現行的科技或是現行的這個制度上面我們可以補足的部分因為我們必須要跟這些關心消防員權益跟關心消防員的朋友們能夠對話的話一定要端出我們自己想要做什麼\n283769\t300388\t如果最後只是一個消防員組工會,他產生的另外一個結果就是參加工會的人未來可能是有規避權、避讓權或者是其他的罷工權等等這些那你這些是不是讓那一些沒有參與的人,他反而在救災上面更吃緊\n301709\t326515\t這個部分其實站在全國處理消防員的業務或是處理消防員的權益上面必須要做一個權衡所以我們很務實的面對他對我們要非常完整的面對他來處理這個方案那我們會繼續努力我就是給你時間完整的說明所以我現在要指出昨天您去新竹的這兩位永銷的靈堂前面上香致意\n329173\t356921\t這一次這兩位永銷一位年之19年一位年之14年這樣的狀況就如同2019年我們雖然有修正所謂的退讓權但是消防員在第一線遇到火災的時候他們其實根本沒有退避空間嘛那你也提到是說要加強科技的部分那就變成是說當消防員進入到火災現場的時候其實他們不知道他們面臨到什麼樣的一個狀況\n358430\t385724\t我個人認為其實這兩位永孝也許他們不應該在這一次他們也許可以避免不要上身火寒那是不是就代表說我們真的做得不夠那再者更科技的方法我們已經講過多久了沒有辦法有一個確實各縣市都有辦法的一個都有辦法來去做能夠掌握火場的一個狀況還有最終\n389502\t410392\t如果現在工會他沒有辦法一步到位但至少我們消防的消防法的職安專章現在已經要訂立了因為我前兩天質詢勞動部部長的時候勞動部何部長跟我們講是說內政部現在在做研擬那我們要說是不是能夠把消防員納入職安法\n411243\t421633\t因為過去來講最重要的是職安法才能夠面臨到不管是我們的這些人員的訓練我們這些人員的工作權益我們這些人員的相關的職業運作的狀況才能夠獲得保障\n428639\t446108\t可是如果說你沒有納入治安法的話我們消防法的主管機關是誰是中央是我們消防署地方是消防局那我們相關的僱主也是消防署跟消防局那就會有球員監裁判的狀況所以我現在比較想直接請教什麼時候我們的\n454335\t456036\t消防法執案專章可以出來\n478226\t503408\t部長 我只想請教現在在這次的新竹大火裡面有一個狀況就是現在的豪宅越蓋越多有很多縣市的雲梯車其實是不足的所以我們才會看到這次的新竹市的大火到最後居然是要拜託民間企業用吊車來去協助把高樓層的民眾給疏散我覺得這未來可能面臨到這個就是設備的部分\n504469\t531237\t有沒有盤點過以相關現在新興的這些區域他的豪宅越蓋越高20幾樓30幾樓的住宅匹匹皆是那這雲梯車的部分還有哪些縣市有缺報告委員除了現有的縣車雲梯車以外未來幾年這個計畫等於核定會整個補充到39部的雲梯車包括新竹市會有50公尺一部\n533154\t538797\t本席也特別要強調是說在很多新興的區域也都需要有這樣子一個高樓層雲梯車來確保相關人員的安全我們這些東西都是有備無患\n559673\t559833\t洪孟楷議員\n","txt":"第一次我阿伯這麼沒中沒中就已經起來了來 謝謝劉部長部長好部長也算是我們立院的前輩不過今天本席真的以嚴肅的心情一定要救教因為我知道過去您在擔任委員的時候特別關心消防員的權益2019年消防法相關的修法退讓權也是您這邊有大力促成本席先予以肯定但是記不記得\n您在之前質詢內政部長徐國勇的時候,當時就有提到消防員人力不足、短缺的問題。到目前為止,現在您上任了,現在的消防員還缺多少?總共的員額缺多少?是吧?我是不是請?來。一千三百多位。一千三百多位。部長,我們什麼時候能夠補齊?\n我們剛剛署長在面對委員質詢的時候有特別提到從明年跟後年開始我們希望每一年補足的人數是1000人左右希望在明後年可以補足但是這中間我們還是有很多努力的方案就像我剛剛跟委員報告的部分就是說我們希望考試院能夠協助我們讓我們的消防員的考試能夠入局率提高那這樣子我們在徵集比較多願意參加這個消防大家團隊的時候會比較快速一點\n但是部長有沒有去了解您說好明年後年所以有把握明年後年兩年時間可以把一千三百多位的人格補給\n目前考試正在考試6月份會考那考完以後10月份會二次停測驗明年1月份會入訓那後年1月份會節約分發後年才分發對一年我們訓練時間是一年所以現在做的事情真的能夠補到\n然後這兩年還有有一些消防員代退退休離開所以真的要補齊什麼時候能夠補齊我這樣直接問部長你任內有沒有信心能夠把消防員的員額補齊因為這在2019年你當時質詢內政部長徐國勇的時候徐國勇其實也是跟你講一樣的話他跟你講說委員我們現在在訓練委員我們每年固定多少人但時空背景一過去之後缺額還是在啊\n為什麼消防員會有缺額：有可能其中一個原因\n就確實過去到現在不管是火神的眼淚也好或說消防員他們的一個權益也好我就比較直接請教2023年的時候當時因為大火發生消防員也有想要組工會的一個聲音當時您時任幹事長您講到的是說態度保留\n所以也被外界質疑是說這就是執政黨的態度那您現在擔任部長是不是您部長任那一天消防員要組工會這樣的事情是不可能的\n我想這樣講 太武斷了 第一個目前 您願意考慮您給我30秒鐘 第一個我們請我們的次長先跟這些消防員促進權力工會的這些消防員或者是有消防員身份或是一些其他的教授學者們先溝通\n就是我們所在乎的消防員組工會最後的這個真正的目標第一個當然是保障消防員自己本身的權益那這個權益第一個保障在安全上面的維護能不能做到那事實上從這幾次的火災看出來在安全維護上面的我們做的不夠好不夠精準那我們會來努力改進同時我剛剛也跟我們的消防署長講我們可能要朝著科技化還有\n我們未來在做火災調查的時候不要只有調查火災發生的原因還要調查消防員進去出來或是所有在執行的層次當中有沒有哪一些是現行的科技或是現行的這個制度上面我們可以補足的部分因為我們必須要跟這些關心消防員權益跟關心消防員的朋友們能夠對話的話一定要端出我們自己想要做什麼\n如果最後只是一個消防員組工會,他產生的另外一個結果就是參加工會的人未來可能是有規避權、避讓權或者是其他的罷工權等等這些那你這些是不是讓那一些沒有參與的人,他反而在救災上面更吃緊\n這個部分其實站在全國處理消防員的業務或是處理消防員的權益上面必須要做一個權衡所以我們很務實的面對他對我們要非常完整的面對他來處理這個方案那我們會繼續努力我就是給你時間完整的說明所以我現在要指出昨天您去新竹的這兩位永銷的靈堂前面上香致意\n這一次這兩位永銷一位年之19年一位年之14年這樣的狀況就如同2019年我們雖然有修正所謂的退讓權但是消防員在第一線遇到火災的時候他們其實根本沒有退避空間嘛那你也提到是說要加強科技的部分那就變成是說當消防員進入到火災現場的時候其實他們不知道他們面臨到什麼樣的一個狀況\n我個人認為其實這兩位永孝也許他們不應該在這一次他們也許可以避免不要上身火寒那是不是就代表說我們真的做得不夠那再者更科技的方法我們已經講過多久了沒有辦法有一個確實各縣市都有辦法的一個都有辦法來去做能夠掌握火場的一個狀況還有最終\n如果現在工會他沒有辦法一步到位但至少我們消防的消防法的職安專章現在已經要訂立了因為我前兩天質詢勞動部部長的時候勞動部何部長跟我們講是說內政部現在在做研擬那我們要說是不是能夠把消防員納入職安法\n因為過去來講最重要的是職安法才能夠面臨到不管是我們的這些人員的訓練我們這些人員的工作權益我們這些人員的相關的職業運作的狀況才能夠獲得保障\n可是如果說你沒有納入治安法的話我們消防法的主管機關是誰是中央是我們消防署地方是消防局那我們相關的僱主也是消防署跟消防局那就會有球員監裁判的狀況所以我現在比較想直接請教什麼時候我們的\n消防法執案專章可以出來\n部長 我只想請教現在在這次的新竹大火裡面有一個狀況就是現在的豪宅越蓋越多有很多縣市的雲梯車其實是不足的所以我們才會看到這次的新竹市的大火到最後居然是要拜託民間企業用吊車來去協助把高樓層的民眾給疏散我覺得這未來可能面臨到這個就是設備的部分\n有沒有盤點過以相關現在新興的這些區域他的豪宅越蓋越高20幾樓30幾樓的住宅匹匹皆是那這雲梯車的部分還有哪些縣市有缺報告委員除了現有的縣車雲梯車以外未來幾年這個計畫等於核定會整個補充到39部的雲梯車包括新竹市會有50公尺一部\n本席也特別要強調是說在很多新興的區域也都需要有這樣子一個高樓層雲梯車來確保相關人員的安全我們這些東西都是有備無患\n洪孟楷議員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.432 --> 00:30.618\n第 一 次 我 阿 伯 這 麼 沒 中 沒 中 就 已 經 起 來 了 來 謝 謝 劉 部 長 部 長 好 部 長 也 算 是 我 們 立 院 的 前 輩 不 過 今 天 本 席 真 的 以 嚴 肅 的 心 情 一 定 要 救 教 因 為 我 知 道 過 去 您 在 擔 任 委 員 的 時 候 特 別 關 心 消 防 員 的 權 益 2 0 1 9 年 消 防 法 相 關 的 修 法 退 讓 權 也 是 您 這 邊 有 大 力 促 成 本 席 先 予 以 肯 定 但 是 記 不 記 得\n\n00:31.678 --> 00:51.404\n您 在 之 前 質 詢 內 政 部 長 徐 國 勇 的 時 候 , 當 時 就 有 提 到 消 防 員 人 力 不 足 、 短 缺 的 問 題 。 到 目 前 為 止 , 現 在 您 上 任 了 , 現 在 的 消 防 員 還 缺 多 少 ? 總 共 的 員 額 缺 多 少 ? 是 吧 ? 我 是 不 是 請 ? 來 。 一 千 三 百 多 位 。 一 千 三 百 多 位 。 部 長 , 我 們 什 麼 時 候 能 夠 補 齊 ?\n\n00:55.832 --> 01:24.238\n我 們 剛 剛 署 長 在 面 對 委 員 質 詢 的 時 候 有 特 別 提 到 從 明 年 跟 後 年 開 始 我 們 希 望 每 一 年 補 足 的 人 數 是 1 0 0 0 人 左 右 希 望 在 明 後 年 可 以 補 足 但 是 這 中 間 我 們 還 是 有 很 多 努 力 的 方 案 就 像 我 剛 剛 跟 委 員 報 告 的 部 分 就 是 說 我 們 希 望 考 試 院 能 夠 協 助 我 們 讓 我 們 的 消 防 員 的 考 試 能 夠 入 局 率 提 高 那 這 樣 子 我 們 在 徵 集 比 較 多 願 意 參 加 這 個 消 防 大 家 團 隊 的 時 候 會 比 較 快 速 一 點\n\n01:25.168 --> 01:33.255\n但 是 部 長 有 沒 有 去 了 解 您 說 好 明 年 後 年 所 以 有 把 握 明 年 後 年 兩 年 時 間 可 以 把 一 千 三 百 多 位 的 人 格 補 給\n\n01:35.555 --> 01:56.087\n目 前 考 試 正 在 考 試 6 月 份 會 考 那 考 完 以 後 1 0 月 份 會 二 次 停 測 驗 明 年 1 月 份 會 入 訓 那 後 年 1 月 份 會 節 約 分 發 後 年 才 分 發 對 一 年 我 們 訓 練 時 間 是 一 年 所 以 現 在 做 的 事 情 真 的 能 夠 補 到\n\n01:57.788 --> 02:26.650\n然 後 這 兩 年 還 有 有 一 些 消 防 員 代 退 退 休 離 開 所 以 真 的 要 補 齊 什 麼 時 候 能 夠 補 齊 我 這 樣 直 接 問 部 長 你 任 內 有 沒 有 信 心 能 夠 把 消 防 員 的 員 額 補 齊 因 為 這 在 2 0 1 9 年 你 當 時 質 詢 內 政 部 長 徐 國 勇 的 時 候 徐 國 勇 其 實 也 是 跟 你 講 一 樣 的 話 他 跟 你 講 說 委 員 我 們 現 在 在 訓 練 委 員 我 們 每 年 固 定 多 少 人 但 時 空 背 景 一 過 去 之 後 缺 額 還 是 在 啊\n\n02:27.824 --> 02:28.584\n為 什 麼 消 防 員 會 有 缺 額 ： 有 可 能 其 中 一 個 原 因\n\n02:55.074 --> 03:15.787\n就 確 實 過 去 到 現 在 不 管 是 火 神 的 眼 淚 也 好 或 說 消 防 員 他 們 的 一 個 權 益 也 好 我 就 比 較 直 接 請 教 2 0 2 3 年 的 時 候 當 時 因 為 大 火 發 生 消 防 員 也 有 想 要 組 工 會 的 一 個 聲 音 當 時 您 時 任 幹 事 長 您 講 到 的 是 說 態 度 保 留\n\n03:16.778 --> 03:26.910\n所 以 也 被 外 界 質 疑 是 說 這 就 是 執 政 黨 的 態 度 那 您 現 在 擔 任 部 長 是 不 是 您 部 長 任 那 一 天 消 防 員 要 組 工 會 這 樣 的 事 情 是 不 可 能 的\n\n03:28.093 --> 03:47.844\n我 想 這 樣 講 太 武 斷 了 第 一 個 目 前 您 願 意 考 慮 您 給 我 3 0 秒 鐘 第 一 個 我 們 請 我 們 的 次 長 先 跟 這 些 消 防 員 促 進 權 力 工 會 的 這 些 消 防 員 或 者 是 有 消 防 員 身 份 或 是 一 些 其 他 的 教 授 學 者 們 先 溝 通\n\n03:49.165 --> 04:12.860\n就 是 我 們 所 在 乎 的 消 防 員 組 工 會 最 後 的 這 個 真 正 的 目 標 第 一 個 當 然 是 保 障 消 防 員 自 己 本 身 的 權 益 那 這 個 權 益 第 一 個 保 障 在 安 全 上 面 的 維 護 能 不 能 做 到 那 事 實 上 從 這 幾 次 的 火 災 看 出 來 在 安 全 維 護 上 面 的 我 們 做 的 不 夠 好 不 夠 精 準 那 我 們 會 來 努 力 改 進 同 時 我 剛 剛 也 跟 我 們 的 消 防 署 長 講 我 們 可 能 要 朝 著 科 技 化 還 有\n\n04:15.822 --> 04:37.968\n我 們 未 來 在 做 火 災 調 查 的 時 候 不 要 只 有 調 查 火 災 發 生 的 原 因 還 要 調 查 消 防 員 進 去 出 來 或 是 所 有 在 執 行 的 層 次 當 中 有 沒 有 哪 一 些 是 現 行 的 科 技 或 是 現 行 的 這 個 制 度 上 面 我 們 可 以 補 足 的 部 分 因 為 我 們 必 須 要 跟 這 些 關 心 消 防 員 權 益 跟 關 心 消 防 員 的 朋 友 們 能 夠 對 話 的 話 一 定 要 端 出 我 們 自 己 想 要 做 什 麼\n\n04:43.769 --> 05:00.388\n如 果 最 後 只 是 一 個 消 防 員 組 工 會 , 他 產 生 的 另 外 一 個 結 果 就 是 參 加 工 會 的 人 未 來 可 能 是 有 規 避 權 、 避 讓 權 或 者 是 其 他 的 罷 工 權 等 等 這 些 那 你 這 些 是 不 是 讓 那 一 些 沒 有 參 與 的 人 , 他 反 而 在 救 災 上 面 更 吃 緊\n\n05:01.709 --> 05:26.515\n這 個 部 分 其 實 站 在 全 國 處 理 消 防 員 的 業 務 或 是 處 理 消 防 員 的 權 益 上 面 必 須 要 做 一 個 權 衡 所 以 我 們 很 務 實 的 面 對 他 對 我 們 要 非 常 完 整 的 面 對 他 來 處 理 這 個 方 案 那 我 們 會 繼 續 努 力 我 就 是 給 你 時 間 完 整 的 說 明 所 以 我 現 在 要 指 出 昨 天 您 去 新 竹 的 這 兩 位 永 銷 的 靈 堂 前 面 上 香 致 意\n\n05:29.173 --> 05:56.921\n這 一 次 這 兩 位 永 銷 一 位 年 之 1 9 年 一 位 年 之 1 4 年 這 樣 的 狀 況 就 如 同 2 0 1 9 年 我 們 雖 然 有 修 正 所 謂 的 退 讓 權 但 是 消 防 員 在 第 一 線 遇 到 火 災 的 時 候 他 們 其 實 根 本 沒 有 退 避 空 間 嘛 那 你 也 提 到 是 說 要 加 強 科 技 的 部 分 那 就 變 成 是 說 當 消 防 員 進 入 到 火 災 現 場 的 時 候 其 實 他 們 不 知 道 他 們 面 臨 到 什 麼 樣 的 一 個 狀 況\n\n05:58.430 --> 06:25.724\n我 個 人 認 為 其 實 這 兩 位 永 孝 也 許 他 們 不 應 該 在 這 一 次 他 們 也 許 可 以 避 免 不 要 上 身 火 寒 那 是 不 是 就 代 表 說 我 們 真 的 做 得 不 夠 那 再 者 更 科 技 的 方 法 我 們 已 經 講 過 多 久 了 沒 有 辦 法 有 一 個 確 實 各 縣 市 都 有 辦 法 的 一 個 都 有 辦 法 來 去 做 能 夠 掌 握 火 場 的 一 個 狀 況 還 有 最 終\n\n06:29.502 --> 06:50.392\n如 果 現 在 工 會 他 沒 有 辦 法 一 步 到 位 但 至 少 我 們 消 防 的 消 防 法 的 職 安 專 章 現 在 已 經 要 訂 立 了 因 為 我 前 兩 天 質 詢 勞 動 部 部 長 的 時 候 勞 動 部 何 部 長 跟 我 們 講 是 說 內 政 部 現 在 在 做 研 擬 那 我 們 要 說 是 不 是 能 夠 把 消 防 員 納 入 職 安 法\n\n06:51.243 --> 07:01.633\n因 為 過 去 來 講 最 重 要 的 是 職 安 法 才 能 夠 面 臨 到 不 管 是 我 們 的 這 些 人 員 的 訓 練 我 們 這 些 人 員 的 工 作 權 益 我 們 這 些 人 員 的 相 關 的 職 業 運 作 的 狀 況 才 能 夠 獲 得 保 障\n\n07:08.639 --> 07:26.108\n可 是 如 果 說 你 沒 有 納 入 治 安 法 的 話 我 們 消 防 法 的 主 管 機 關 是 誰 是 中 央 是 我 們 消 防 署 地 方 是 消 防 局 那 我 們 相 關 的 僱 主 也 是 消 防 署 跟 消 防 局 那 就 會 有 球 員 監 裁 判 的 狀 況 所 以 我 現 在 比 較 想 直 接 請 教 什 麼 時 候 我 們 的\n\n07:34.335 --> 07:36.036\n消 防 法 執 案 專 章 可 以 出 來\n\n07:58.226 --> 08:23.408\n部 長 我 只 想 請 教 現 在 在 這 次 的 新 竹 大 火 裡 面 有 一 個 狀 況 就 是 現 在 的 豪 宅 越 蓋 越 多 有 很 多 縣 市 的 雲 梯 車 其 實 是 不 足 的 所 以 我 們 才 會 看 到 這 次 的 新 竹 市 的 大 火 到 最 後 居 然 是 要 拜 託 民 間 企 業 用 吊 車 來 去 協 助 把 高 樓 層 的 民 眾 給 疏 散 我 覺 得 這 未 來 可 能 面 臨 到 這 個 就 是 設 備 的 部 分\n\n08:24.469 --> 08:51.237\n有 沒 有 盤 點 過 以 相 關 現 在 新 興 的 這 些 區 域 他 的 豪 宅 越 蓋 越 高 2 0 幾 樓 3 0 幾 樓 的 住 宅 匹 匹 皆 是 那 這 雲 梯 車 的 部 分 還 有 哪 些 縣 市 有 缺 報 告 委 員 除 了 現 有 的 縣 車 雲 梯 車 以 外 未 來 幾 年 這 個 計 畫 等 於 核 定 會 整 個 補 充 到 3 9 部 的 雲 梯 車 包 括 新 竹 市 會 有 5 0 公 尺 一 部\n\n08:53.154 --> 08:58.797\n本 席 也 特 別 要 強 調 是 說 在 很 多 新 興 的 區 域 也 都 需 要 有 這 樣 子 一 個 高 樓 層 雲 梯 車 來 確 保 相 關 人 員 的 安 全 我 們 這 些 東 西 都 是 有 備 無 患\n\n09:19.673 --> 09:19.833\n洪 孟 楷 議 員\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.432,"end":30.618,"text":"第一次我阿伯這麼沒中沒中就已經起來了來 謝謝劉部長部長好部長也算是我們立院的前輩不過今天本席真的以嚴肅的心情一定要救教因為我知道過去您在擔任委員的時候特別關心消防員的權益2019年消防法相關的修法退讓權也是您這邊有大力促成本席先予以肯定但是記不記得"},{"start":31.678,"end":51.404,"text":"您在之前質詢內政部長徐國勇的時候,當時就有提到消防員人力不足、短缺的問題。到目前為止,現在您上任了,現在的消防員還缺多少?總共的員額缺多少?是吧?我是不是請?來。一千三百多位。一千三百多位。部長,我們什麼時候能夠補齊?"},{"start":55.832,"end":84.238,"text":"我們剛剛署長在面對委員質詢的時候有特別提到從明年跟後年開始我們希望每一年補足的人數是1000人左右希望在明後年可以補足但是這中間我們還是有很多努力的方案就像我剛剛跟委員報告的部分就是說我們希望考試院能夠協助我們讓我們的消防員的考試能夠入局率提高那這樣子我們在徵集比較多願意參加這個消防大家團隊的時候會比較快速一點"},{"start":85.168,"end":93.255,"text":"但是部長有沒有去了解您說好明年後年所以有把握明年後年兩年時間可以把一千三百多位的人格補給"},{"start":95.555,"end":116.087,"text":"目前考試正在考試6月份會考那考完以後10月份會二次停測驗明年1月份會入訓那後年1月份會節約分發後年才分發對一年我們訓練時間是一年所以現在做的事情真的能夠補到"},{"start":117.788,"end":146.65,"text":"然後這兩年還有有一些消防員代退退休離開所以真的要補齊什麼時候能夠補齊我這樣直接問部長你任內有沒有信心能夠把消防員的員額補齊因為這在2019年你當時質詢內政部長徐國勇的時候徐國勇其實也是跟你講一樣的話他跟你講說委員我們現在在訓練委員我們每年固定多少人但時空背景一過去之後缺額還是在啊"},{"start":147.824,"end":148.584,"text":"為什麼消防員會有缺額：有可能其中一個原因"},{"start":175.074,"end":195.787,"text":"就確實過去到現在不管是火神的眼淚也好或說消防員他們的一個權益也好我就比較直接請教2023年的時候當時因為大火發生消防員也有想要組工會的一個聲音當時您時任幹事長您講到的是說態度保留"},{"start":196.778,"end":206.91,"text":"所以也被外界質疑是說這就是執政黨的態度那您現在擔任部長是不是您部長任那一天消防員要組工會這樣的事情是不可能的"},{"start":208.093,"end":227.844,"text":"我想這樣講 太武斷了 第一個目前 您願意考慮您給我30秒鐘 第一個我們請我們的次長先跟這些消防員促進權力工會的這些消防員或者是有消防員身份或是一些其他的教授學者們先溝通"},{"start":229.165,"end":252.86,"text":"就是我們所在乎的消防員組工會最後的這個真正的目標第一個當然是保障消防員自己本身的權益那這個權益第一個保障在安全上面的維護能不能做到那事實上從這幾次的火災看出來在安全維護上面的我們做的不夠好不夠精準那我們會來努力改進同時我剛剛也跟我們的消防署長講我們可能要朝著科技化還有"},{"start":255.822,"end":277.968,"text":"我們未來在做火災調查的時候不要只有調查火災發生的原因還要調查消防員進去出來或是所有在執行的層次當中有沒有哪一些是現行的科技或是現行的這個制度上面我們可以補足的部分因為我們必須要跟這些關心消防員權益跟關心消防員的朋友們能夠對話的話一定要端出我們自己想要做什麼"},{"start":283.769,"end":300.388,"text":"如果最後只是一個消防員組工會,他產生的另外一個結果就是參加工會的人未來可能是有規避權、避讓權或者是其他的罷工權等等這些那你這些是不是讓那一些沒有參與的人,他反而在救災上面更吃緊"},{"start":301.709,"end":326.515,"text":"這個部分其實站在全國處理消防員的業務或是處理消防員的權益上面必須要做一個權衡所以我們很務實的面對他對我們要非常完整的面對他來處理這個方案那我們會繼續努力我就是給你時間完整的說明所以我現在要指出昨天您去新竹的這兩位永銷的靈堂前面上香致意"},{"start":329.173,"end":356.921,"text":"這一次這兩位永銷一位年之19年一位年之14年這樣的狀況就如同2019年我們雖然有修正所謂的退讓權但是消防員在第一線遇到火災的時候他們其實根本沒有退避空間嘛那你也提到是說要加強科技的部分那就變成是說當消防員進入到火災現場的時候其實他們不知道他們面臨到什麼樣的一個狀況"},{"start":358.43,"end":385.724,"text":"我個人認為其實這兩位永孝也許他們不應該在這一次他們也許可以避免不要上身火寒那是不是就代表說我們真的做得不夠那再者更科技的方法我們已經講過多久了沒有辦法有一個確實各縣市都有辦法的一個都有辦法來去做能夠掌握火場的一個狀況還有最終"},{"start":389.502,"end":410.392,"text":"如果現在工會他沒有辦法一步到位但至少我們消防的消防法的職安專章現在已經要訂立了因為我前兩天質詢勞動部部長的時候勞動部何部長跟我們講是說內政部現在在做研擬那我們要說是不是能夠把消防員納入職安法"},{"start":411.243,"end":421.633,"text":"因為過去來講最重要的是職安法才能夠面臨到不管是我們的這些人員的訓練我們這些人員的工作權益我們這些人員的相關的職業運作的狀況才能夠獲得保障"},{"start":428.639,"end":446.108,"text":"可是如果說你沒有納入治安法的話我們消防法的主管機關是誰是中央是我們消防署地方是消防局那我們相關的僱主也是消防署跟消防局那就會有球員監裁判的狀況所以我現在比較想直接請教什麼時候我們的"},{"start":454.335,"end":456.036,"text":"消防法執案專章可以出來"},{"start":478.226,"end":503.408,"text":"部長 我只想請教現在在這次的新竹大火裡面有一個狀況就是現在的豪宅越蓋越多有很多縣市的雲梯車其實是不足的所以我們才會看到這次的新竹市的大火到最後居然是要拜託民間企業用吊車來去協助把高樓層的民眾給疏散我覺得這未來可能面臨到這個就是設備的部分"},{"start":504.469,"end":531.237,"text":"有沒有盤點過以相關現在新興的這些區域他的豪宅越蓋越高20幾樓30幾樓的住宅匹匹皆是那這雲梯車的部分還有哪些縣市有缺報告委員除了現有的縣車雲梯車以外未來幾年這個計畫等於核定會整個補充到39部的雲梯車包括新竹市會有50公尺一部"},{"start":533.154,"end":538.797,"text":"本席也特別要強調是說在很多新興的區域也都需要有這樣子一個高樓層雲梯車來確保相關人員的安全我們這些東西都是有備無患"},{"start":559.673,"end":559.833,"text":"洪孟楷議員"}]}}}}