{"id":153320,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153320","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/bbbc431469b8aeba3efc68161cfd3a7b4869c0f3e297fc60beba37a180c9b1cd42b2a9aabf465d0c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"翁曉玲","委員發言時間":"09:38:59 - 09:50:51","影片長度":"00:11:52","會議時間":"2024-05-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第28次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院秘書長、法務部部長、衛生福利部、教育部率所屬相關單位列席就「鐵窗裡的少年─如何提升輔導處遇、預防再犯、落實社區轉銜機制、促進社會復歸，並完備社會安全網」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-30","duration":712,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第28次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":28,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-28"},"end_time":"2024-05-30T09:50:51+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-30T09:38:59+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":335,"blocks":[["翁委員曉玲：（9時39分）有請秘書長還有次長。"],["主席：好，麻煩秘書長、次長。"],["翁委員曉玲：秘書長、次長好。剛剛其實包含黃國昌委員還有我們的召委吳宗憲委員都有提到有關於司法人力負擔過重的問題，要怎麼樣從改善人力結構、薪資結構以及加班結構來做調整，其實我覺得一個比較簡單的方式，因為現在司法人力，不管是檢察體系還是法院體系其實都有所謂加班時數的上限，可是我們知道整個司法工作並不是單純像勞工一樣，可以很清楚地去釐清要加班多少時間，他就是一個責任制，而這也是為什麼我們看到很多的司法人員，他們都利用週末假日的時間，甚至晚上還加班到非常晚，可是事實上他們每個月可能最高能夠領到的加班時數只有40小時，這個其實是顯然不合理的，這個部分其實已經討論了非常久，所以有沒有可能去檢討有關加班時數的上限？我們可能要採的是類似以案件來計算，或是說再把加班時數往上調，本席希望可以儘速就有關如何改善加班時數、檢討加班機制的部分，請兩個單位都儘速提出相關方案來解決這個問題，請問秘書長有可能做到嗎？"],["吳秘書長三龍：前提是在經費許可之下，當然是能夠報加班就儘量讓同仁報加班，前提是也要經費夠。"],["翁委員曉玲：是。基本上就是你們要有需求，你要提出解決的方案，至少在司法及法制委員會這邊，我會support兩個單位，如果你們有提出這樣的需求，而且是合理的，本席在這裡是絕對會支持。因為眼前看起來要引進相關人力可能不是那麼容易，因為人事總處那裡會有意見，但是如果能夠從調整加班時數的方面來做，或許這是比較可以立竿見影的作法。法務部也可以嗎？"],["徐次長錫祥：謝謝委員的關心，我想加班的問題是我們檢察機關從上到下大家都會面臨到的問題，剛才秘書長講的是很正確的，因為是涉及到經費的問題，這會有排擠的效用，可能會有影響。謝謝委員的指教，我們會在會後再詳加計算，如果有需求，再請委員幫忙。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，謝謝。可以請秘書長先回座。","我想再請教育部，教育部今天是哪個代表？好。今天司法院、法務部、教育部其實都針對有關矯正學校的少年們相關的輔導機制提出報告，我想請教的就是，有關矯正學校的教育輔導機制，在你們的報告裡面，你們寫了很多，有安排心理諮商師，也有各式各樣的不同課程來協助，以及他們出了學校之後的教育輔導的銜接機制。可是我都沒有看到一個具體的數字，就是經過你們輔導之後的這些少年，他們的再犯率是如何，這個部分是很重要的，就是你們的實施成效到底是如何？在矯正學校裡面，經過你們重重安排規劃的教育方式實施之後，這些受刑的少年出校之後的再犯率是多少？不知道教育部這邊知道嗎？"],["戴副署長淑芬：這個部分的話，通常法務部矯正署那邊會有矯正學校出校之後再犯率的統計。"],["翁委員曉玲：所以今天矯正署也有來嗎？可以來回答一下嗎？"],["周署長輝煌：跟委員報告，有關少年的前科、再犯率是屬於特種的個資，所以除了少年再入校，或是接押、移進，我們才會有這個數據，不然平常我們不會有這個數據。原則上我們會來加強相關跟司法院合作的輔導機制。"],["翁委員曉玲：是。我認為這其實滿重要的，就是我們要知道經過矯正學校的教育輔導之後的成效如何，是不是真的有辦法去改善？這些曾經犯過法的少年，他們經過重重的教育、學習之後，有沒有再改善，他們改善的成果如何？我希望之後請你們把這個相關數據再提供給本席，好嗎？可以1個月之內提供給我嗎？就是把這些數據大概整理一下。"],["周署長輝煌：可能我們回去要研究看看有沒有這些數據……"],["翁委員曉玲：我相信應該是有，只是你們要把它整合起來。"],["周署長輝煌：因為目前相關權責可能還是在司法院。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，如果是在司法院的話，也請秘書長這邊協助，幾個單位大家一起把這個資料整理起來。","好，接下來我想再詢問，就是還有另外一個部分在今天沒有討論到，就是少年安置機構的規定，現在其實看起來也顯不合時宜。我們知道有一個「司法院辦理補（捐）助民間安置機構作業要點」，這個要點是在民國99年就發布了，可是到現在都沒有修訂過。"],["謝廳長靜慧：是的，關於這個部分，在它的母法少事法修正的時候，我們大概會……"],["翁委員曉玲：可是這個是行政法令，基本上，你們可以很機動性的去做修正。"],["謝廳長靜慧：是，沒有錯。"],["翁委員曉玲：對，我在這裡要強調的就是現在我們的物價膨脹，你們這個辦理補助款的要點基本上看起來似乎已經顯不合時宜，譬如以諮商費用來講，衛福部這裡說的諮商費用每人每次最高是1,600元，可是你們補助要點的第三點到現在都還是1,200元。另外像補助要點的第四點規定對於低收入戶要補助他們的實習材料費等學習費用，所以我希望你們能夠通盤檢討這些要點的規定，好不好？"],["謝廳長靜慧：是的，我跟委員報告，少事法其實從108年就已經修正，連昨天院會通過已經是第三波，關於這個補助要點，我跟委員報告，我們現在的安置輔導是少事法所規定保護處分的其中一種，對安置輔導我們會跟機構簽約，如果安置輔導的少年需要心理諮商，在他的安置輔導計畫當中其實就會有一個心理諮商的費用，那這個部分如果有不足，譬如說，他要進行的可能不是個人的而是家族式的，那這個是要去補助機構在本來我們已經在執行的安置輔導所需要心理治療的這個部分以外的補助費用，向委員做以上報告。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，瞭解，總之，我希望你們對這個「司法院辦理補（捐）助民間安置機構作業要點」可以再進行通盤的檢討，因為畢竟已經很久沒有進行了。"],["謝廳長靜慧：是。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，接下來我想請教次長還有秘書長，大家知道我們在禮拜二很辛苦，因為我們的國會改革法案尤其是立法院職權行使法才剛修正通過，現在外界包含行政院其實都有一些意見，他們認為我們對有些名詞沒有定義清楚，我想請教一下次長和秘書長，什麼叫反貪腐、反滲透、反托拉斯、反傾銷？秘書長可以回答一下嗎？"],["吳秘書長三龍：像這些我覺得精準比較重要，就是要精準啦！"],["翁委員曉玲：是，要怎麼樣精準法？請您告訴我什麼叫反滲透。"],["吳秘書長三龍：假如有需要的話，那有些我也不方便在這邊就這樣回答。"],["翁委員曉玲：我都還把相關的法規都列出來了，什麼叫反托拉斯？在公平交易法裡面有規定反托拉斯；還有反傾銷稅，在我們關稅法裡面有規定所謂的反傾銷稅；至於反貪腐，就是規定在聯合國的反貪腐公約裡面；反滲透是指在反滲透法裡面有講的反滲透，請問這些是什麼意思？"],["吳秘書長三龍：因為像這些在法規面有一定的嚴謹度，所以……"],["翁委員曉玲：好，請問您知道這些名詞在我們現行法裡面有定義嗎？"],["吳秘書長三龍：這個我也不便在這邊……因為這個要精準才能……"],["翁委員曉玲：次長，請問有沒有定義？"],["徐次長錫祥：秘書長剛才講的是對的，現行法律規定已經有定義解釋了，我們在這裡講的萬一跟法條的規定不一樣，會有一些誤會，我們可以把法條找出來。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，本席在這邊告訴你，我剛剛講的這些名詞在法條上都沒有定義，它就是一個不確定的法律概念。所以我們在立法院職權行使法第二十五條裡面講的反質詢，它就是一個不確定的法律概念，它的概念其實就像前面講的，不管是叫反什麼，像反傾銷稅、反貪腐、反滲透，它不就是未來這個具體事實是否符合法律要件的一個判斷嗎？為什麼在其他的法律我們可以這樣規定，可是在我們立法院職權行使法裡面，包含很多法界人士，甚至行政院，還針對這個部分要提出覆議，甚至民進黨委員未來要聲請釋憲，我覺得這是連一點法律的common sense都沒有，我今天聽次長和秘書長這樣回答我，其實我心裡還滿感慨的，這個是在法律的用語裡面非常基本的一個概念。好，我希望未來你們在解釋法律的時候還是要秉持你們的專業，去做一個合理的解釋。好，以上，謝謝。"],["徐次長錫祥：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝。下一位我們請羅智強委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":332,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-28","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","翁曉玲","羅智強","莊瑞雄","林思銘","林月琴","鍾佳濱","張雅琳","吳思瑤","陳培瑜","傅崐萁","陳俊宇","謝龍介","沈發惠"],"page_start":275,"meetingDate":["2024-05-30"],"gazette_id":"1135401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135401_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第28次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院秘書長、法務部部長、衛生福利部、教育部率所屬相關單位列席就「鐵窗裡的少年─\n如何提升輔導處遇、預防再犯、落實社區轉銜機制、促進社會復歸，並完備社會安全網」進行專\n題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1135401_00011"}},"transcript":{"id":"153320","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153320","tool":"pyannote","id":"153320-pyannote"},"job_id":"6rAAm6irUiObdVR1","queued_at":"2024-05-30 12:02:24","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-30 12:02:24","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153320"},{"time":"2024-05-30 12:02:25","msg":"downloading 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0.999}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 136.876, \"end\": 137.016, \"score\": 0.734}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 137.016, \"end\": 137.197, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 137.197, \"end\": 137.377, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"司\", \"start\": 137.377, \"end\": 137.517, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 137.517, \"end\": 137.637, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 137.637, \"end\": 137.797, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 137.797, \"end\": 137.897, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 137.897, \"end\": 137.997, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 137.997, \"end\": 138.218, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"s\", \"start\": 138.218, \"end\": 138.398, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"u\", \"start\": 138.398, \"end\": 138.558, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"p\", \"start\": 138.558, \"end\": 138.698, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"p\", \"start\": 138.698, \"end\": 138.718, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"o\", \"start\": 138.718, \"end\": 139.299, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"r\", \"start\": 139.299, \"end\": 139.459, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"t\", \"start\": 139.459, \"end\": 139.939, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 139.939, \"end\": 140.12, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 140.12, \"end\": 140.14, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}]}, {\"start\": 142.101, \"end\": 142.581, \"text\": \"法務部也可以嗎?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 142.101, \"end\": 142.201, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 142.201, \"end\": 142.281, \"score\": 0.467}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 142.281, \"end\": 142.481, \"score\": 0.741}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 142.481, \"end\": 142.561, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 142.561, \"end\": 142.581, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 166.128, \"end\": 189.02, \"text\": \"謝謝委員的關心我想加班的問題是我們檢查機關從上到下大家會面臨這個問題剛才秘書長講的是很正確的因為是涉及到經費的問題那個會有排擠的效用可能會影響謝謝委員的指教那我們會在會後再相加以計算如果有需求再請委員幫忙\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 166.128, \"end\": 166.389, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 166.389, \"end\": 166.749, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 166.749, \"end\": 167.309, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 167.309, \"end\": 167.389, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 167.389, \"end\": 167.669, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 167.669, \"end\": 167.869, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"班\", \"start\": 167.869, \"end\": 168.029, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 168.029, \"end\": 168.57, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 168.57, \"end\": 168.73, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 168.73, \"end\": 170.01, 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206.96, \"score\": 0.044}]}, {\"start\": 221.151, \"end\": 246.61, \"text\": \"學校的教育輔導機制我看起來就是剛剛在你們的報告裡面你們寫了很多有安排心理諮商師又有各式各樣的不同的課程來協助以及他們除了學校之後的教育輔導的銜接機制可是我都沒有看到一個具體的數字就是這些經過你們輔導之後的這些少年那他們再犯率\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 221.151, \"end\": 221.331, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"校\", \"start\": 221.331, \"end\": 221.512, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 221.512, \"end\": 221.632, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 221.632, \"end\": 221.792, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 221.792, \"end\": 222.472, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"輔\"}, {\"word\": \"導\"}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 222.472, \"end\": 223.593, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 223.593, \"end\": 223.793, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 223.793, \"end\": 224.053, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 224.053, \"end\": 224.414, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 224.414, 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0.998}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"en\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,700 --> 00:00:12,161\n有 請 秘 書 長 還 有 次 長 好 , 麻 煩 秘 書 長 、 次 長 好 , 秘 書 長 、 次 長 好 剛 剛 其 實 包 含 黃 國 昌 委 員 還 有 我 們 的 交 委 吳 宗 憲 委 員 都 有 提 到 有 關 於 司 法 人 力 過 重 的 問 題 然 後 怎 麼 樣 從 改 善 這 個 人 力 結 構 還 有\n\n2\n00:00:32,597 --> 00:00:32,617\n韓 國 瑜\n\n3\n00:00:43,869 --> 00:01:12,166\n檢 查 體 系 還 是 法 院 體 系 其 實 都 有 所 謂 加 班 時 數 的 上 限 可 是 我 們 知 道 其 實 整 個 司 法 的 工 作 他 不 是 一 個 單 純 的 像 勞 工 一 樣 他 可 以 說 是 很 清 楚 的 去 釐 清 他 要 加 班 多 好 的 時 間 常 常 他 就 是 一 個 責 任 制 這 也 是 為 什 麼 很 多 的 我 們 現 在 看 到 我 們 的 司 法 人 員 那 麼 他 們 都 利 用 週 末 假 日 的 時 候 甚 至 晚 上 還 加 班 到 非 常 晚 可 是\n\n4\n00:01:12,786 --> 00:01:29,559\n實 際 上 他 們 每 個 月 可 能 最 高 能 夠 領 到 的 加 班 的 這 個 時 數 只 能 4 0 小 時 對 那 這 個 其 實 是 顯 然 不 合 理 這 個 部 分 其 實 已 經 討 論 非 常 久 所 以 有 沒 有 可 能 去 檢 討 有 關 於 現 在 加 班 時 數 的 上 限\n\n5\n00:01:30,279 --> 00:01:57,477\n我 們 可 能 是 要 採 的 是 一 個 類 似 以 案 件 來 計 算 或 者 是 說 是 再 把 加 班 時 數 往 上 面 調 那 麼 這 個 是 本 席 希 望 就 是 說 是 兩 邊 單 位 是 不 是 可 以 競 速 的 將 如 何 改 善 加 班 時 數 檢 討 這 個 加 班 機 制 這 個 部 分 那 可 以 請 兩 個 單 位 都 可 以 競 速 提 出 相 關 的 方 案 來 解 決 這 個 問 題 請 問 秘 書 長 有 可 能 做 到 嗎\n\n6\n00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:20,140\n在 前 提 是 經 會 席 可 下 我 們 當 然 是 盡 量 來 能 夠 加 班 就 盡 量 讓 同 仁 加 班 前 提 也 要 經 會 過 是 基 本 上 就 是 你 們 要 有 需 求 你 們 要 提 出 解 決 的 方 案 那 我 至 少 在 司 法 法 制 委 員 會 這 邊 我 會 s u p p o r t 就 是 兩 個\n\n7\n00:02:22,101 --> 00:02:22,581\n法 務 部 也 可 以 嗎 ?\n\n8\n00:02:46,128 --> 00:03:09,020\n謝 謝 委 員 的 關 心 我 想 加 班 的 問 題 是 我 們 檢 查 機 關 從 上 到 下 大 家 會 面 臨 這 個 問 題 剛 才 秘 書 長 講 的 是 很 正 確 的 因 為 是 涉 及 到 經 費 的 問 題 那 個 會 有 排 擠 的 效 用 可 能 會 影 響 謝 謝 委 員 的 指 教 那 我 們 會 在 會 後 再 相 加 以 計 算 如 果 有 需 求 再 請 委 員 幫 忙\n\n9\n00:03:12,806 --> 00:03:18,938\n請 秘 書 長 先 回 座 , 那 我 也 想 再 請 教 育 部 , 教 育 部 今 天 是 哪 個 代 表 嗎 ?\n\n10\n00:03:25,940 --> 00:03:26,960\n司 法 院 、 法 務 部 、 教 育 部\n\n11\n00:03:41,151 --> 00:04:06,610\n學 校 的 教 育 輔 導 機 制 我 看 起 來 就 是 剛 剛 在 你 們 的 報 告 裡 面 你 們 寫 了 很 多 有 安 排 心 理 諮 商 師 又 有 各 式 各 樣 的 不 同 的 課 程 來 協 助 以 及 他 們 除 了 學 校 之 後 的 教 育 輔 導 的 銜 接 機 制 可 是 我 都 沒 有 看 到 一 個 具 體 的 數 字 就 是 這 些 經 過 你 們 輔 導 之 後 的 這 些 少 年 那 他 們 再 犯 率\n\n12\n00:04:08,167 --> 00:04:25,644\n對 , 那 這 個 部 分 是 很 重 要 , 就 你 們 的 實 施 成 效 到 底 如 何 ? 早 在 學 校 裡 面 經 過 你 們 重 重 安 排 規 劃 的 教 育 方 式 實 施 之 後 那 這 些 受 刑 的 少 年 他 們 出 校 之 後\n\n13\n00:04:26,741 --> 00:04:41,374\n再 犯 率 是 有 多 少 ? 不 知 道 現 在 教 育 部 這 邊 知 道 嗎 ? 這 個 部 分 的 話 通 常 就 是 法 務 部 矯 正 署 那 邊 會 有 矯 正 學 校 出 校 之 後 再 犯 率 的 那 個 通 緝 所 以 今 天 矯 正 署 有 來 嗎 ? 可 以 來 回 答 一 下 嗎 ? 是\n\n14\n00:04:45,756 --> 00:05:11,194\n跟 委 員 報 告 有 關 少 年 的 這 個 前 科 再 犯 例 這 個 是 屬 於 特 種 的 個 資 所 以 除 了 說 少 年 他 再 入 校 或 是 說 接 押 移 進 我 們 才 會 有 這 個 數 據 不 然 平 常 我 們 不 會 有 這 個 數 據 所 以 我 們 沿 著 上 我 們 會 來 加 強 相 關 的 跟 司 法 院 合 作 的 輔 導 機 制\n\n15\n00:05:12,595 --> 00:05:31,909\n我 認 為 這 其 實 蠻 重 要 的 , 就 是 說 我 們 要 知 道 經 過 了 這 個 學 校 的 教 育 輔 導 之 後 , 它 的 成 效 如 何 , 它 是 不 是 真 的 有 辦 法 去 改 善 這 些 曾 經 犯 過 法 的 少 年 , 那 麼 他 們 經 過 重 重 的 教 育 學 習 之 後 , 有 沒 有 在 改 善 ?\n\n16\n00:05:32,449 --> 00:05:32,489\n主 席\n\n17\n00:05:44,864 --> 00:06:09,360\n這 可 能 我 們 回 去 要 研 究 看 看 有 沒 有 這 些 數 據 因 為 目 前 可 能 相 關 的 這 些 前 者 還 是 在 司 法 院 那 如 果 在 司 法 院 的 話 那 也 可 能 請 秘 書 長 這 邊 協 助 幾 個 單 位 大 家 一 起 把 這 個 資 料 給 它 整 理 起 來 那 接 下 來 我 想 再 詢 問 就 是 說 是 還 有 另 外 一 個 部 分 是 在 今 天 沒 有 討 論 到 就 在 少 年 安 置 機 構\n\n18\n00:06:10,641 --> 00:06:27,199\n的 規 定 現 在 其 實 看 起 來 也 顯 不 合 時 宜 我 們 知 道 這 個 司 法 院 辦 理 捐 助 民 間 安 置 機 構 作 業 要 點 這 個 要 點 是 在 民 國 9 9 年 就 發 布 了 到 現 在 都 沒 有 改 善 都 沒 有 修 訂 過\n\n19\n00:06:29,808 --> 00:06:46,402\n是 的 , 這 個 部 分 我 們 大 概 就 是 會 跟 我 們 的 這 個 邵 司 法 會 我 們 的 母 法 修 正 的 時 候 , 我 們 大 概 會 . . . 可 是 這 個 行 政 辦 法 基 本 上 你 們 可 以 很 機 動 性 的 去 做 修 正 。 是 , 沒 有 錯 。 對 , 我 在 這 裡 要 強 調 的 就 是 說 是 , 看 現 在 我 們 的 這 個 物 價 都\n\n20\n00:06:49,384 --> 00:06:52,905\n衛 福 部 這 裡 說 的 資 商 費 用 每 人 每 次 最 高 是 1 6 0 0 元 你 們 到 現 在 都 還 是 1 2 0 0 元 在 補 助 要 點 的 第 三 點 還 有 另 外 像 是 補 助 要 點 第 四 點 對 於 這 個\n\n21\n00:07:15,211 --> 00:07:20,934\n是 的 , 我 跟 委 員 報 告 一 下 , 就 是 我 們 少 世 法 其 實 從 1 0 8 年 已 經 修 正 連 昨 天 因 為 通 過 已 經 是 第 三 波 那 這 個 補 助 要 點 我 跟 委 員 報 告 是 我 們 現 在 的 安 置 輔 導 是 少 世 法 的 保 護 處 分 的 其 中 一 種\n\n22\n00:07:42,523 --> 00:08:11,400\n那 安 置 輔 導 我 們 會 跟 機 構 簽 約 簽 約 如 果 說 那 安 置 輔 導 的 少 年 他 需 要 就 需 要 心 理 諮 商 其 實 在 他 的 安 置 輔 導 的 輔 導 的 計 畫 當 中 其 實 就 會 有 一 個 心 理 諮 商 的 費 用 那 這 個 部 分 呢 是 如 果 他 有 不 足 比 如 說 他 要 進 行 的 可 能 不 是 個 人 的 而 是 比 如 說 是 家 族 式 的 那 這 個 是 在 去 補 助 機 構 在 本 來 我 們 已 經 在 執 行 的 安 置 輔 導 的 需 要 心 理 治 療 的 這 個 部 分 以 外 的 一 個 補 助 的 一 個 費 用 向 委 員 做 一 個 報 告\n\n23\n00:08:12,741 --> 00:08:38,558\n總 之 就 是 說 我 希 望 你 們 這 個 補 助 要 點 就 是 安 置 機 構 補 助 民 間 安 置 機 構 最 要 點 可 以 再 進 行 一 個 通 盤 指 導 畢 竟 已 經 很 久 沒 有 再 進 行 了 那 接 下 來 我 這 邊 我 還 想 請 教 這 個 次 長 還 有 秘 書 長 就 是 我 們 知 道 我 們 的 這 個 禮 拜 二 很 辛 苦 我 們 國 會 改 革 法 案 尤 其 是 立 法 院 職 權 刑 事 法 才 剛 修 正 通 過\n\n24\n00:08:39,739 --> 00:08:51,925\n那 麼 現 在 外 界 包 含 行 政 院 其 實 都 有 一 些 意 見 認 為 說 我 們 有 些 名 詞 沒 有 定 義 清 楚 我 想 請 教 一 下 次 長 、 秘 書 長 什 麼 叫 反 貪 腐 反 滲 透 反 托 拉 斯 反 傾 銷\n\n25\n00:09:04,276 --> 00:09:22,813\n請 秘 書 長 可 以 回 答 一 下 嗎 ? 因 為 像 這 些 齁 , 我 覺 得 精 準 比 較 重 要 啦 , 比 較 重 要 , 要 精 準 啦 。 是 , 要 怎 麼 樣 精 準 法 , 您 告 訴 我 , 什 麼 叫 反 滲 透 ? 有 需 要 的 話 , 那 有 些 這 個 , 我 也 不 方 便 在 這 邊 就 這 樣 回 答 。\n\n26\n00:09:24,074 --> 00:09:24,294\n因 為 像 這 些 齁\n\n27\n00:09:54,192 --> 00:10:01,857\n這 個 法 規 面 它 有 一 定 的 嚴 謹 度 啦 所 以 好 請 問 一 下 您 知 道 這 些 名 詞 在 我 們 縣 檢 法 裡 面 它 有 定 義 嗎\n\n28\n00:10:05,931 --> 00:10:33,262\n請 問 次 長 有 沒 有 定 義 我 想 請 次 長 秘 書 長 剛 才 講 的 是 對 現 行 法 律 規 定 已 經 有 定 義 解 釋 的 我 們 在 這 裡 講 萬 一 跟 法 條 規 定 不 一 樣 有 一 些 誤 會 本 席 在 這 邊 告 訴 你 我 剛 剛 講 的 這 些 名 詞 在 法 條 上 都 沒 有 定 義 它 就 是 一 個 不 確 定 法 律 概 念\n\n29\n00:10:34,517 --> 00:11:00,408\n好 來 麻 煩 相 議 所 以 我 們 在 立 法 院 職 權 刑 事 法 第 2 5 條 裡 面 講 的 反 質 詢 它 就 是 一 個 不 確 定 的 法 律 概 念 它 的 概 念 其 實 就 跟 之 前 面 講 的 不 管 是 叫 反 什 麼 叫 反 傾 銷 稅 什 麼 叫 做 反 貪 腐 反 滲 透 它 不 就 是 一 個 要 未 來 根 據 個 具 體 事 實 的 是 否 符 合 法 律 要 件 的 一 個 判 斷 嗎\n\n30\n00:11:02,541 --> 00:11:17,387\n為 什 麼 在 其 他 的 法 律 我 們 可 以 這 樣 規 定 在 我 們 立 法 院 職 權 行 使 法 裡 面 包 含 這 個 很 多 法 界 人 士 那 甚 至 行 政 院 還 針 對 這 個 部 分 要 來 提 出 復 議 甚 至 民 進 黨 委 員 未 來 要 提 起 釋 憲 我 覺 得 這 一 點 法 律 的 c o m m o n s e n s e 都 沒 有 我 今 天 聽 了 就 是 次 長 和 秘 書 長 的 這 樣 回 答 我 其 實 心 裡 還 蠻 感 慨 的\n\n31\n00:11:30,942 --> 00:11:49,772\n對 這 個 是 一 個 在 法 律 的 這 個 用 語 裡 面 這 非 常 基 本 的 一 個 概 念 好 那 麼 我 想 就 是 希 望 未 來 就 是 你 們 在 解 釋 法 律 的 時 候 還 是 要 秉 持 你 們 的 專 業 去 做 一 個 合 理 的 解 釋 以 上 謝 謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8700\t12161\t有請秘書長還有次長好,麻煩秘書長、次長好,秘書長、次長好剛剛其實包含黃國昌委員還有我們的交委吳宗憲委員都有提到有關於司法人力過重的問題然後怎麼樣從改善這個人力結構還有\n32597\t32617\t韓國瑜\n43869\t72166\t檢查體系還是法院體系其實都有所謂加班時數的上限可是我們知道其實整個司法的工作他不是一個單純的像勞工一樣他可以說是很清楚的去釐清他要加班多好的時間常常他就是一個責任制這也是為什麼很多的我們現在看到我們的司法人員那麼他們都利用週末假日的時候甚至晚上還加班到非常晚可是\n72786\t89559\t實際上他們每個月可能最高能夠領到的加班的這個時數只能40小時對那這個其實是顯然不合理這個部分其實已經討論非常久所以有沒有可能去檢討有關於現在加班時數的上限\n90279\t117477\t我們可能是要採的是一個類似以案件來計算或者是說是再把加班時數往上面調那麼這個是本席希望就是說是兩邊單位是不是可以競速的將如何改善加班時數檢討這個加班機制這個部分那可以請兩個單位都可以競速提出相關的方案來解決這個問題請問秘書長有可能做到嗎\n121400\t140140\t在前提是經會席可下我們當然是盡量來能夠加班就盡量讓同仁加班前提也要經會過是 基本上就是你們要有需求你們要提出解決的方案那我至少在司法法制委員會這邊我會support就是兩個\n142101\t142581\t法務部也可以嗎?\n166128\t189020\t謝謝委員的關心我想加班的問題是我們檢查機關從上到下大家會面臨這個問題剛才秘書長講的是很正確的因為是涉及到經費的問題那個會有排擠的效用可能會影響謝謝委員的指教那我們會在會後再相加以計算如果有需求再請委員幫忙\n192806\t198938\t請秘書長先回座,那我也想再請教育部,教育部今天是哪個代表嗎?\n205940\t206960\t司法院、法務部、教育部\n221151\t246610\t學校的教育輔導機制我看起來就是剛剛在你們的報告裡面你們寫了很多有安排心理諮商師又有各式各樣的不同的課程來協助以及他們除了學校之後的教育輔導的銜接機制可是我都沒有看到一個具體的數字就是這些經過你們輔導之後的這些少年那他們再犯率\n248167\t265644\t對,那這個部分是很重要,就你們的實施成效到底如何?早在學校裡面經過你們重重安排規劃的教育方式實施之後那這些受刑的少年他們出校之後\n266741\t281374\t再犯率是有多少?不知道現在教育部這邊知道嗎?這個部分的話通常就是法務部矯正署那邊會有矯正學校出校之後再犯率的那個通緝所以今天矯正署有來嗎?可以來回答一下嗎?是\n285756\t311194\t跟委員報告有關少年的這個前科再犯例這個是屬於特種的個資所以除了說少年他再入校或是說接押移進我們才會有這個數據不然平常我們不會有這個數據所以我們沿著上我們會來加強相關的跟司法院合作的輔導機制\n312595\t331909\t我認為這其實蠻重要的,就是說我們要知道經過了這個學校的教育輔導之後,它的成效如何,它是不是真的有辦法去改善這些曾經犯過法的少年,那麼他們經過重重的教育學習之後,有沒有在改善?\n332449\t332489\t主席\n344864\t369360\t這可能我們回去要研究看看有沒有這些數據因為目前可能相關的這些前者還是在司法院那如果在司法院的話那也可能請秘書長這邊協助幾個單位大家一起把這個資料給它整理起來那接下來我想再詢問就是說是還有另外一個部分是在今天沒有討論到就在少年安置機構\n370641\t387199\t的規定現在其實看起來也顯不合時宜我們知道這個司法院辦理捐助民間安置機構作業要點這個要點是在民國99年就發布了到現在都沒有改善都沒有修訂過\n389808\t406402\t是的,這個部分我們大概就是會跟我們的這個邵司法會我們的母法修正的時候,我們大概會...可是這個行政辦法基本上你們可以很機動性的去做修正。是,沒有錯。對,我在這裡要強調的就是說是,看現在我們的這個物價都\n409384\t412905\t衛福部這裡說的資商費用每人每次最高是1600元你們到現在都還是1200元在補助要點的第三點還有另外像是補助要點第四點對於這個\n435211\t440934\t是的,我跟委員報告一下,就是我們少世法其實從108年已經修正連昨天因為通過已經是第三波那這個補助要點我跟委員報告是我們現在的安置輔導是少世法的保護處分的其中一種\n462523\t491400\t那安置輔導我們會跟機構簽約簽約如果說那安置輔導的少年他需要就需要心理諮商其實在他的安置輔導的輔導的計畫當中其實就會有一個心理諮商的費用那這個部分呢是如果他有不足比如說他要進行的可能不是個人的而是比如說是家族式的那這個是在去補助機構在本來我們已經在執行的安置輔導的需要心理治療的這個部分以外的一個補助的一個費用向委員做一個報告\n492741\t518558\t總之就是說我希望你們這個補助要點就是安置機構補助民間安置機構最要點可以再進行一個通盤指導畢竟已經很久沒有再進行了那接下來我這邊我還想請教這個次長還有秘書長就是我們知道我們的這個禮拜二很辛苦我們國會改革法案尤其是立法院職權刑事法才剛修正通過\n519739\t531925\t那麼現在外界包含行政院其實都有一些意見認為說我們有些名詞沒有定義清楚我想請教一下次長、秘書長什麼叫反貪腐反滲透反托拉斯反傾銷\n544276\t562813\t請秘書長可以回答一下嗎?因為像這些齁,我覺得精準比較重要啦,比較重要,要精準啦。是,要怎麼樣精準法,您告訴我,什麼叫反滲透?有需要的話,那有些這個,我也不方便在這邊就這樣回答。\n564074\t564294\t因為像這些齁\n594192\t601857\t這個法規面它有一定的嚴謹度啦所以好請問一下您知道這些名詞在我們縣檢法裡面它有定義嗎\n605931\t633262\t請問次長有沒有定義我想請次長秘書長剛才講的是對現行法律規定已經有定義解釋的我們在這裡講萬一跟法條規定不一樣有一些誤會本席在這邊告訴你我剛剛講的這些名詞在法條上都沒有定義它就是一個不確定法律概念\n634517\t660408\t好來麻煩相議所以我們在立法院職權刑事法第25條裡面講的反質詢它就是一個不確定的法律概念它的概念其實就跟之前面講的不管是叫反什麼叫反傾銷稅什麼叫做反貪腐反滲透它不就是一個要未來根據個具體事實的是否符合法律要件的一個判斷嗎\n662541\t677387\t為什麼在其他的法律我們可以這樣規定在我們立法院職權行使法裡面包含這個很多法界人士那甚至行政院還針對這個部分要來提出復議甚至民進黨委員未來要提起釋憲我覺得這一點法律的common sense都沒有我今天聽了就是次長和秘書長的這樣回答我其實心裡還蠻感慨的\n690942\t709772\t對 這個是一個在法律的這個用語裡面這非常基本的一個概念好 那麼我想就是希望未來就是你們在解釋法律的時候還是要秉持你們的專業去做一個合理的解釋以上 謝謝\n","txt":"有請秘書長還有次長好,麻煩秘書長、次長好,秘書長、次長好剛剛其實包含黃國昌委員還有我們的交委吳宗憲委員都有提到有關於司法人力過重的問題然後怎麼樣從改善這個人力結構還有\n韓國瑜\n檢查體系還是法院體系其實都有所謂加班時數的上限可是我們知道其實整個司法的工作他不是一個單純的像勞工一樣他可以說是很清楚的去釐清他要加班多好的時間常常他就是一個責任制這也是為什麼很多的我們現在看到我們的司法人員那麼他們都利用週末假日的時候甚至晚上還加班到非常晚可是\n實際上他們每個月可能最高能夠領到的加班的這個時數只能40小時對那這個其實是顯然不合理這個部分其實已經討論非常久所以有沒有可能去檢討有關於現在加班時數的上限\n我們可能是要採的是一個類似以案件來計算或者是說是再把加班時數往上面調那麼這個是本席希望就是說是兩邊單位是不是可以競速的將如何改善加班時數檢討這個加班機制這個部分那可以請兩個單位都可以競速提出相關的方案來解決這個問題請問秘書長有可能做到嗎\n在前提是經會席可下我們當然是盡量來能夠加班就盡量讓同仁加班前提也要經會過是 基本上就是你們要有需求你們要提出解決的方案那我至少在司法法制委員會這邊我會support就是兩個\n法務部也可以嗎?\n謝謝委員的關心我想加班的問題是我們檢查機關從上到下大家會面臨這個問題剛才秘書長講的是很正確的因為是涉及到經費的問題那個會有排擠的效用可能會影響謝謝委員的指教那我們會在會後再相加以計算如果有需求再請委員幫忙\n請秘書長先回座,那我也想再請教育部,教育部今天是哪個代表嗎?\n司法院、法務部、教育部\n學校的教育輔導機制我看起來就是剛剛在你們的報告裡面你們寫了很多有安排心理諮商師又有各式各樣的不同的課程來協助以及他們除了學校之後的教育輔導的銜接機制可是我都沒有看到一個具體的數字就是這些經過你們輔導之後的這些少年那他們再犯率\n對,那這個部分是很重要,就你們的實施成效到底如何?早在學校裡面經過你們重重安排規劃的教育方式實施之後那這些受刑的少年他們出校之後\n再犯率是有多少?不知道現在教育部這邊知道嗎?這個部分的話通常就是法務部矯正署那邊會有矯正學校出校之後再犯率的那個通緝所以今天矯正署有來嗎?可以來回答一下嗎?是\n跟委員報告有關少年的這個前科再犯例這個是屬於特種的個資所以除了說少年他再入校或是說接押移進我們才會有這個數據不然平常我們不會有這個數據所以我們沿著上我們會來加強相關的跟司法院合作的輔導機制\n我認為這其實蠻重要的,就是說我們要知道經過了這個學校的教育輔導之後,它的成效如何,它是不是真的有辦法去改善這些曾經犯過法的少年,那麼他們經過重重的教育學習之後,有沒有在改善?\n主席\n這可能我們回去要研究看看有沒有這些數據因為目前可能相關的這些前者還是在司法院那如果在司法院的話那也可能請秘書長這邊協助幾個單位大家一起把這個資料給它整理起來那接下來我想再詢問就是說是還有另外一個部分是在今天沒有討論到就在少年安置機構\n的規定現在其實看起來也顯不合時宜我們知道這個司法院辦理捐助民間安置機構作業要點這個要點是在民國99年就發布了到現在都沒有改善都沒有修訂過\n是的,這個部分我們大概就是會跟我們的這個邵司法會我們的母法修正的時候,我們大概會...可是這個行政辦法基本上你們可以很機動性的去做修正。是,沒有錯。對,我在這裡要強調的就是說是,看現在我們的這個物價都\n衛福部這裡說的資商費用每人每次最高是1600元你們到現在都還是1200元在補助要點的第三點還有另外像是補助要點第四點對於這個\n是的,我跟委員報告一下,就是我們少世法其實從108年已經修正連昨天因為通過已經是第三波那這個補助要點我跟委員報告是我們現在的安置輔導是少世法的保護處分的其中一種\n那安置輔導我們會跟機構簽約簽約如果說那安置輔導的少年他需要就需要心理諮商其實在他的安置輔導的輔導的計畫當中其實就會有一個心理諮商的費用那這個部分呢是如果他有不足比如說他要進行的可能不是個人的而是比如說是家族式的那這個是在去補助機構在本來我們已經在執行的安置輔導的需要心理治療的這個部分以外的一個補助的一個費用向委員做一個報告\n總之就是說我希望你們這個補助要點就是安置機構補助民間安置機構最要點可以再進行一個通盤指導畢竟已經很久沒有再進行了那接下來我這邊我還想請教這個次長還有秘書長就是我們知道我們的這個禮拜二很辛苦我們國會改革法案尤其是立法院職權刑事法才剛修正通過\n那麼現在外界包含行政院其實都有一些意見認為說我們有些名詞沒有定義清楚我想請教一下次長、秘書長什麼叫反貪腐反滲透反托拉斯反傾銷\n請秘書長可以回答一下嗎?因為像這些齁,我覺得精準比較重要啦,比較重要,要精準啦。是,要怎麼樣精準法,您告訴我,什麼叫反滲透?有需要的話,那有些這個,我也不方便在這邊就這樣回答。\n因為像這些齁\n這個法規面它有一定的嚴謹度啦所以好請問一下您知道這些名詞在我們縣檢法裡面它有定義嗎\n請問次長有沒有定義我想請次長秘書長剛才講的是對現行法律規定已經有定義解釋的我們在這裡講萬一跟法條規定不一樣有一些誤會本席在這邊告訴你我剛剛講的這些名詞在法條上都沒有定義它就是一個不確定法律概念\n好來麻煩相議所以我們在立法院職權刑事法第25條裡面講的反質詢它就是一個不確定的法律概念它的概念其實就跟之前面講的不管是叫反什麼叫反傾銷稅什麼叫做反貪腐反滲透它不就是一個要未來根據個具體事實的是否符合法律要件的一個判斷嗎\n為什麼在其他的法律我們可以這樣規定在我們立法院職權行使法裡面包含這個很多法界人士那甚至行政院還針對這個部分要來提出復議甚至民進黨委員未來要提起釋憲我覺得這一點法律的common sense都沒有我今天聽了就是次長和秘書長的這樣回答我其實心裡還蠻感慨的\n對 這個是一個在法律的這個用語裡面這非常基本的一個概念好 那麼我想就是希望未來就是你們在解釋法律的時候還是要秉持你們的專業去做一個合理的解釋以上 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.700 --> 00:12.161\n有 請 秘 書 長 還 有 次 長 好 , 麻 煩 秘 書 長 、 次 長 好 , 秘 書 長 、 次 長 好 剛 剛 其 實 包 含 黃 國 昌 委 員 還 有 我 們 的 交 委 吳 宗 憲 委 員 都 有 提 到 有 關 於 司 法 人 力 過 重 的 問 題 然 後 怎 麼 樣 從 改 善 這 個 人 力 結 構 還 有\n\n00:32.597 --> 00:32.617\n韓 國 瑜\n\n00:43.869 --> 01:12.166\n檢 查 體 系 還 是 法 院 體 系 其 實 都 有 所 謂 加 班 時 數 的 上 限 可 是 我 們 知 道 其 實 整 個 司 法 的 工 作 他 不 是 一 個 單 純 的 像 勞 工 一 樣 他 可 以 說 是 很 清 楚 的 去 釐 清 他 要 加 班 多 好 的 時 間 常 常 他 就 是 一 個 責 任 制 這 也 是 為 什 麼 很 多 的 我 們 現 在 看 到 我 們 的 司 法 人 員 那 麼 他 們 都 利 用 週 末 假 日 的 時 候 甚 至 晚 上 還 加 班 到 非 常 晚 可 是\n\n01:12.786 --> 01:29.559\n實 際 上 他 們 每 個 月 可 能 最 高 能 夠 領 到 的 加 班 的 這 個 時 數 只 能 4 0 小 時 對 那 這 個 其 實 是 顯 然 不 合 理 這 個 部 分 其 實 已 經 討 論 非 常 久 所 以 有 沒 有 可 能 去 檢 討 有 關 於 現 在 加 班 時 數 的 上 限\n\n01:30.279 --> 01:57.477\n我 們 可 能 是 要 採 的 是 一 個 類 似 以 案 件 來 計 算 或 者 是 說 是 再 把 加 班 時 數 往 上 面 調 那 麼 這 個 是 本 席 希 望 就 是 說 是 兩 邊 單 位 是 不 是 可 以 競 速 的 將 如 何 改 善 加 班 時 數 檢 討 這 個 加 班 機 制 這 個 部 分 那 可 以 請 兩 個 單 位 都 可 以 競 速 提 出 相 關 的 方 案 來 解 決 這 個 問 題 請 問 秘 書 長 有 可 能 做 到 嗎\n\n02:01.400 --> 02:20.140\n在 前 提 是 經 會 席 可 下 我 們 當 然 是 盡 量 來 能 夠 加 班 就 盡 量 讓 同 仁 加 班 前 提 也 要 經 會 過 是 基 本 上 就 是 你 們 要 有 需 求 你 們 要 提 出 解 決 的 方 案 那 我 至 少 在 司 法 法 制 委 員 會 這 邊 我 會 s u p p o r t 就 是 兩 個\n\n02:22.101 --> 02:22.581\n法 務 部 也 可 以 嗎 ?\n\n02:46.128 --> 03:09.020\n謝 謝 委 員 的 關 心 我 想 加 班 的 問 題 是 我 們 檢 查 機 關 從 上 到 下 大 家 會 面 臨 這 個 問 題 剛 才 秘 書 長 講 的 是 很 正 確 的 因 為 是 涉 及 到 經 費 的 問 題 那 個 會 有 排 擠 的 效 用 可 能 會 影 響 謝 謝 委 員 的 指 教 那 我 們 會 在 會 後 再 相 加 以 計 算 如 果 有 需 求 再 請 委 員 幫 忙\n\n03:12.806 --> 03:18.938\n請 秘 書 長 先 回 座 , 那 我 也 想 再 請 教 育 部 , 教 育 部 今 天 是 哪 個 代 表 嗎 ?\n\n03:25.940 --> 03:26.960\n司 法 院 、 法 務 部 、 教 育 部\n\n03:41.151 --> 04:06.610\n學 校 的 教 育 輔 導 機 制 我 看 起 來 就 是 剛 剛 在 你 們 的 報 告 裡 面 你 們 寫 了 很 多 有 安 排 心 理 諮 商 師 又 有 各 式 各 樣 的 不 同 的 課 程 來 協 助 以 及 他 們 除 了 學 校 之 後 的 教 育 輔 導 的 銜 接 機 制 可 是 我 都 沒 有 看 到 一 個 具 體 的 數 字 就 是 這 些 經 過 你 們 輔 導 之 後 的 這 些 少 年 那 他 們 再 犯 率\n\n04:08.167 --> 04:25.644\n對 , 那 這 個 部 分 是 很 重 要 , 就 你 們 的 實 施 成 效 到 底 如 何 ? 早 在 學 校 裡 面 經 過 你 們 重 重 安 排 規 劃 的 教 育 方 式 實 施 之 後 那 這 些 受 刑 的 少 年 他 們 出 校 之 後\n\n04:26.741 --> 04:41.374\n再 犯 率 是 有 多 少 ? 不 知 道 現 在 教 育 部 這 邊 知 道 嗎 ? 這 個 部 分 的 話 通 常 就 是 法 務 部 矯 正 署 那 邊 會 有 矯 正 學 校 出 校 之 後 再 犯 率 的 那 個 通 緝 所 以 今 天 矯 正 署 有 來 嗎 ? 可 以 來 回 答 一 下 嗎 ? 是\n\n04:45.756 --> 05:11.194\n跟 委 員 報 告 有 關 少 年 的 這 個 前 科 再 犯 例 這 個 是 屬 於 特 種 的 個 資 所 以 除 了 說 少 年 他 再 入 校 或 是 說 接 押 移 進 我 們 才 會 有 這 個 數 據 不 然 平 常 我 們 不 會 有 這 個 數 據 所 以 我 們 沿 著 上 我 們 會 來 加 強 相 關 的 跟 司 法 院 合 作 的 輔 導 機 制\n\n05:12.595 --> 05:31.909\n我 認 為 這 其 實 蠻 重 要 的 , 就 是 說 我 們 要 知 道 經 過 了 這 個 學 校 的 教 育 輔 導 之 後 , 它 的 成 效 如 何 , 它 是 不 是 真 的 有 辦 法 去 改 善 這 些 曾 經 犯 過 法 的 少 年 , 那 麼 他 們 經 過 重 重 的 教 育 學 習 之 後 , 有 沒 有 在 改 善 ?\n\n05:32.449 --> 05:32.489\n主 席\n\n05:44.864 --> 06:09.360\n這 可 能 我 們 回 去 要 研 究 看 看 有 沒 有 這 些 數 據 因 為 目 前 可 能 相 關 的 這 些 前 者 還 是 在 司 法 院 那 如 果 在 司 法 院 的 話 那 也 可 能 請 秘 書 長 這 邊 協 助 幾 個 單 位 大 家 一 起 把 這 個 資 料 給 它 整 理 起 來 那 接 下 來 我 想 再 詢 問 就 是 說 是 還 有 另 外 一 個 部 分 是 在 今 天 沒 有 討 論 到 就 在 少 年 安 置 機 構\n\n06:10.641 --> 06:27.199\n的 規 定 現 在 其 實 看 起 來 也 顯 不 合 時 宜 我 們 知 道 這 個 司 法 院 辦 理 捐 助 民 間 安 置 機 構 作 業 要 點 這 個 要 點 是 在 民 國 9 9 年 就 發 布 了 到 現 在 都 沒 有 改 善 都 沒 有 修 訂 過\n\n06:29.808 --> 06:46.402\n是 的 , 這 個 部 分 我 們 大 概 就 是 會 跟 我 們 的 這 個 邵 司 法 會 我 們 的 母 法 修 正 的 時 候 , 我 們 大 概 會 . . . 可 是 這 個 行 政 辦 法 基 本 上 你 們 可 以 很 機 動 性 的 去 做 修 正 。 是 , 沒 有 錯 。 對 , 我 在 這 裡 要 強 調 的 就 是 說 是 , 看 現 在 我 們 的 這 個 物 價 都\n\n06:49.384 --> 06:52.905\n衛 福 部 這 裡 說 的 資 商 費 用 每 人 每 次 最 高 是 1 6 0 0 元 你 們 到 現 在 都 還 是 1 2 0 0 元 在 補 助 要 點 的 第 三 點 還 有 另 外 像 是 補 助 要 點 第 四 點 對 於 這 個\n\n07:15.211 --> 07:20.934\n是 的 , 我 跟 委 員 報 告 一 下 , 就 是 我 們 少 世 法 其 實 從 1 0 8 年 已 經 修 正 連 昨 天 因 為 通 過 已 經 是 第 三 波 那 這 個 補 助 要 點 我 跟 委 員 報 告 是 我 們 現 在 的 安 置 輔 導 是 少 世 法 的 保 護 處 分 的 其 中 一 種\n\n07:42.523 --> 08:11.400\n那 安 置 輔 導 我 們 會 跟 機 構 簽 約 簽 約 如 果 說 那 安 置 輔 導 的 少 年 他 需 要 就 需 要 心 理 諮 商 其 實 在 他 的 安 置 輔 導 的 輔 導 的 計 畫 當 中 其 實 就 會 有 一 個 心 理 諮 商 的 費 用 那 這 個 部 分 呢 是 如 果 他 有 不 足 比 如 說 他 要 進 行 的 可 能 不 是 個 人 的 而 是 比 如 說 是 家 族 式 的 那 這 個 是 在 去 補 助 機 構 在 本 來 我 們 已 經 在 執 行 的 安 置 輔 導 的 需 要 心 理 治 療 的 這 個 部 分 以 外 的 一 個 補 助 的 一 個 費 用 向 委 員 做 一 個 報 告\n\n08:12.741 --> 08:38.558\n總 之 就 是 說 我 希 望 你 們 這 個 補 助 要 點 就 是 安 置 機 構 補 助 民 間 安 置 機 構 最 要 點 可 以 再 進 行 一 個 通 盤 指 導 畢 竟 已 經 很 久 沒 有 再 進 行 了 那 接 下 來 我 這 邊 我 還 想 請 教 這 個 次 長 還 有 秘 書 長 就 是 我 們 知 道 我 們 的 這 個 禮 拜 二 很 辛 苦 我 們 國 會 改 革 法 案 尤 其 是 立 法 院 職 權 刑 事 法 才 剛 修 正 通 過\n\n08:39.739 --> 08:51.925\n那 麼 現 在 外 界 包 含 行 政 院 其 實 都 有 一 些 意 見 認 為 說 我 們 有 些 名 詞 沒 有 定 義 清 楚 我 想 請 教 一 下 次 長 、 秘 書 長 什 麼 叫 反 貪 腐 反 滲 透 反 托 拉 斯 反 傾 銷\n\n09:04.276 --> 09:22.813\n請 秘 書 長 可 以 回 答 一 下 嗎 ? 因 為 像 這 些 齁 , 我 覺 得 精 準 比 較 重 要 啦 , 比 較 重 要 , 要 精 準 啦 。 是 , 要 怎 麼 樣 精 準 法 , 您 告 訴 我 , 什 麼 叫 反 滲 透 ? 有 需 要 的 話 , 那 有 些 這 個 , 我 也 不 方 便 在 這 邊 就 這 樣 回 答 。\n\n09:24.074 --> 09:24.294\n因 為 像 這 些 齁\n\n09:54.192 --> 10:01.857\n這 個 法 規 面 它 有 一 定 的 嚴 謹 度 啦 所 以 好 請 問 一 下 您 知 道 這 些 名 詞 在 我 們 縣 檢 法 裡 面 它 有 定 義 嗎\n\n10:05.931 --> 10:33.262\n請 問 次 長 有 沒 有 定 義 我 想 請 次 長 秘 書 長 剛 才 講 的 是 對 現 行 法 律 規 定 已 經 有 定 義 解 釋 的 我 們 在 這 裡 講 萬 一 跟 法 條 規 定 不 一 樣 有 一 些 誤 會 本 席 在 這 邊 告 訴 你 我 剛 剛 講 的 這 些 名 詞 在 法 條 上 都 沒 有 定 義 它 就 是 一 個 不 確 定 法 律 概 念\n\n10:34.517 --> 11:00.408\n好 來 麻 煩 相 議 所 以 我 們 在 立 法 院 職 權 刑 事 法 第 2 5 條 裡 面 講 的 反 質 詢 它 就 是 一 個 不 確 定 的 法 律 概 念 它 的 概 念 其 實 就 跟 之 前 面 講 的 不 管 是 叫 反 什 麼 叫 反 傾 銷 稅 什 麼 叫 做 反 貪 腐 反 滲 透 它 不 就 是 一 個 要 未 來 根 據 個 具 體 事 實 的 是 否 符 合 法 律 要 件 的 一 個 判 斷 嗎\n\n11:02.541 --> 11:17.387\n為 什 麼 在 其 他 的 法 律 我 們 可 以 這 樣 規 定 在 我 們 立 法 院 職 權 行 使 法 裡 面 包 含 這 個 很 多 法 界 人 士 那 甚 至 行 政 院 還 針 對 這 個 部 分 要 來 提 出 復 議 甚 至 民 進 黨 委 員 未 來 要 提 起 釋 憲 我 覺 得 這 一 點 法 律 的 c o m m o n s e n s e 都 沒 有 我 今 天 聽 了 就 是 次 長 和 秘 書 長 的 這 樣 回 答 我 其 實 心 裡 還 蠻 感 慨 的\n\n11:30.942 --> 11:49.772\n對 這 個 是 一 個 在 法 律 的 這 個 用 語 裡 面 這 非 常 基 本 的 一 個 概 念 好 那 麼 我 想 就 是 希 望 未 來 就 是 你 們 在 解 釋 法 律 的 時 候 還 是 要 秉 持 你 們 的 專 業 去 做 一 個 合 理 的 解 釋 以 上 謝 謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.7,"end":12.161,"text":"有請秘書長還有次長好,麻煩秘書長、次長好,秘書長、次長好剛剛其實包含黃國昌委員還有我們的交委吳宗憲委員都有提到有關於司法人力過重的問題然後怎麼樣從改善這個人力結構還有"},{"start":32.597,"end":32.617,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":43.869,"end":72.166,"text":"檢查體系還是法院體系其實都有所謂加班時數的上限可是我們知道其實整個司法的工作他不是一個單純的像勞工一樣他可以說是很清楚的去釐清他要加班多好的時間常常他就是一個責任制這也是為什麼很多的我們現在看到我們的司法人員那麼他們都利用週末假日的時候甚至晚上還加班到非常晚可是"},{"start":72.786,"end":89.559,"text":"實際上他們每個月可能最高能夠領到的加班的這個時數只能40小時對那這個其實是顯然不合理這個部分其實已經討論非常久所以有沒有可能去檢討有關於現在加班時數的上限"},{"start":90.279,"end":117.477,"text":"我們可能是要採的是一個類似以案件來計算或者是說是再把加班時數往上面調那麼這個是本席希望就是說是兩邊單位是不是可以競速的將如何改善加班時數檢討這個加班機制這個部分那可以請兩個單位都可以競速提出相關的方案來解決這個問題請問秘書長有可能做到嗎"},{"start":121.4,"end":140.14,"text":"在前提是經會席可下我們當然是盡量來能夠加班就盡量讓同仁加班前提也要經會過是 基本上就是你們要有需求你們要提出解決的方案那我至少在司法法制委員會這邊我會support就是兩個"},{"start":142.101,"end":142.581,"text":"法務部也可以嗎?"},{"start":166.128,"end":189.02,"text":"謝謝委員的關心我想加班的問題是我們檢查機關從上到下大家會面臨這個問題剛才秘書長講的是很正確的因為是涉及到經費的問題那個會有排擠的效用可能會影響謝謝委員的指教那我們會在會後再相加以計算如果有需求再請委員幫忙"},{"start":192.806,"end":198.938,"text":"請秘書長先回座,那我也想再請教育部,教育部今天是哪個代表嗎?"},{"start":205.94,"end":206.96,"text":"司法院、法務部、教育部"},{"start":221.151,"end":246.61,"text":"學校的教育輔導機制我看起來就是剛剛在你們的報告裡面你們寫了很多有安排心理諮商師又有各式各樣的不同的課程來協助以及他們除了學校之後的教育輔導的銜接機制可是我都沒有看到一個具體的數字就是這些經過你們輔導之後的這些少年那他們再犯率"},{"start":248.167,"end":265.644,"text":"對,那這個部分是很重要,就你們的實施成效到底如何?早在學校裡面經過你們重重安排規劃的教育方式實施之後那這些受刑的少年他們出校之後"},{"start":266.741,"end":281.374,"text":"再犯率是有多少?不知道現在教育部這邊知道嗎?這個部分的話通常就是法務部矯正署那邊會有矯正學校出校之後再犯率的那個通緝所以今天矯正署有來嗎?可以來回答一下嗎?是"},{"start":285.756,"end":311.194,"text":"跟委員報告有關少年的這個前科再犯例這個是屬於特種的個資所以除了說少年他再入校或是說接押移進我們才會有這個數據不然平常我們不會有這個數據所以我們沿著上我們會來加強相關的跟司法院合作的輔導機制"},{"start":312.595,"end":331.909,"text":"我認為這其實蠻重要的,就是說我們要知道經過了這個學校的教育輔導之後,它的成效如何,它是不是真的有辦法去改善這些曾經犯過法的少年,那麼他們經過重重的教育學習之後,有沒有在改善?"},{"start":332.449,"end":332.489,"text":"主席"},{"start":344.864,"end":369.36,"text":"這可能我們回去要研究看看有沒有這些數據因為目前可能相關的這些前者還是在司法院那如果在司法院的話那也可能請秘書長這邊協助幾個單位大家一起把這個資料給它整理起來那接下來我想再詢問就是說是還有另外一個部分是在今天沒有討論到就在少年安置機構"},{"start":370.641,"end":387.199,"text":"的規定現在其實看起來也顯不合時宜我們知道這個司法院辦理捐助民間安置機構作業要點這個要點是在民國99年就發布了到現在都沒有改善都沒有修訂過"},{"start":389.808,"end":406.402,"text":"是的,這個部分我們大概就是會跟我們的這個邵司法會我們的母法修正的時候,我們大概會...可是這個行政辦法基本上你們可以很機動性的去做修正。是,沒有錯。對,我在這裡要強調的就是說是,看現在我們的這個物價都"},{"start":409.384,"end":412.905,"text":"衛福部這裡說的資商費用每人每次最高是1600元你們到現在都還是1200元在補助要點的第三點還有另外像是補助要點第四點對於這個"},{"start":435.211,"end":440.934,"text":"是的,我跟委員報告一下,就是我們少世法其實從108年已經修正連昨天因為通過已經是第三波那這個補助要點我跟委員報告是我們現在的安置輔導是少世法的保護處分的其中一種"},{"start":462.523,"end":491.4,"text":"那安置輔導我們會跟機構簽約簽約如果說那安置輔導的少年他需要就需要心理諮商其實在他的安置輔導的輔導的計畫當中其實就會有一個心理諮商的費用那這個部分呢是如果他有不足比如說他要進行的可能不是個人的而是比如說是家族式的那這個是在去補助機構在本來我們已經在執行的安置輔導的需要心理治療的這個部分以外的一個補助的一個費用向委員做一個報告"},{"start":492.741,"end":518.558,"text":"總之就是說我希望你們這個補助要點就是安置機構補助民間安置機構最要點可以再進行一個通盤指導畢竟已經很久沒有再進行了那接下來我這邊我還想請教這個次長還有秘書長就是我們知道我們的這個禮拜二很辛苦我們國會改革法案尤其是立法院職權刑事法才剛修正通過"},{"start":519.739,"end":531.925,"text":"那麼現在外界包含行政院其實都有一些意見認為說我們有些名詞沒有定義清楚我想請教一下次長、秘書長什麼叫反貪腐反滲透反托拉斯反傾銷"},{"start":544.276,"end":562.813,"text":"請秘書長可以回答一下嗎?因為像這些齁,我覺得精準比較重要啦,比較重要,要精準啦。是,要怎麼樣精準法,您告訴我,什麼叫反滲透?有需要的話,那有些這個,我也不方便在這邊就這樣回答。"},{"start":564.074,"end":564.294,"text":"因為像這些齁"},{"start":594.192,"end":601.857,"text":"這個法規面它有一定的嚴謹度啦所以好請問一下您知道這些名詞在我們縣檢法裡面它有定義嗎"},{"start":605.931,"end":633.262,"text":"請問次長有沒有定義我想請次長秘書長剛才講的是對現行法律規定已經有定義解釋的我們在這裡講萬一跟法條規定不一樣有一些誤會本席在這邊告訴你我剛剛講的這些名詞在法條上都沒有定義它就是一個不確定法律概念"},{"start":634.517,"end":660.408,"text":"好來麻煩相議所以我們在立法院職權刑事法第25條裡面講的反質詢它就是一個不確定的法律概念它的概念其實就跟之前面講的不管是叫反什麼叫反傾銷稅什麼叫做反貪腐反滲透它不就是一個要未來根據個具體事實的是否符合法律要件的一個判斷嗎"},{"start":662.541,"end":677.387,"text":"為什麼在其他的法律我們可以這樣規定在我們立法院職權行使法裡面包含這個很多法界人士那甚至行政院還針對這個部分要來提出復議甚至民進黨委員未來要提起釋憲我覺得這一點法律的common sense都沒有我今天聽了就是次長和秘書長的這樣回答我其實心裡還蠻感慨的"},{"start":690.942,"end":709.772,"text":"對 這個是一個在法律的這個用語裡面這非常基本的一個概念好 那麼我想就是希望未來就是你們在解釋法律的時候還是要秉持你們的專業去做一個合理的解釋以上 謝謝"}]}}}}