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票 了 他 也 非 常 坦 白 的 直 白 的 說 那 所 以 本 期 要 請 教 那 你 何 時 能 夠 盤 點 這 個 結 果 出 來\n\n5\n00:01:37,162 --> 00:01:52,791\n電 的 部 分 的 確 是 郭 部 長 在 做 了 那 我 們 也 會 從 他 這 邊 一 起 多 協 調 看 一 下 我 這 邊 是 有 提 供 他 一 些 資 訊 就 是 A I 的 運 算 需 要 多 少 電 力 現 在 是 台 電 看 起 來 已 經 納 進 來 評 估 了\n\n6\n00:01:54,933 --> 00:02:12,827\n請 教 主 委 A I 的 部 分 大 家 都 非 常 的 清 楚 它 的 速 度 是 超 前 不 是 教 父 你 也 清 楚 所 以 現 在 預 估 說 提 醒 台 電 說 A I 的 這 個 部 分 或 許 會 是 再 深 層 電 力 的 需 求 夠 嗎\n\n7\n00:02:15,009 --> 00:02:17,051\n三 個 p e r c e n t 跟 三 成 是 落 差 十 倍 !\n\n8\n00:02:30,802 --> 00:02:38,190\n市 主 委 如 果 照 林 市 長 所 說 的 是 3 % 是 3 % 而 已 但 是 現 在 產 業 界 很 緊 張 欸 產 業 界 認 為 絕 對 會 超 過 需 求 電 量 的 3 成 所 以 等 於 是 落 差 1 0 倍\n\n9\n00:02:47,359 --> 00:03:03,640\n委 員 講 的 是 的 確 需 要 去 滾 動 式 的 調 整 那 3 0 % 是 指 的 是 運 算 中 心 的 電 力 的 提 升 就 是 它 跟 傳 統 的 s e r v e r 之 間 它 運 算 電 力 要 大 幅 提 升 可 是 在 一 般 的 非 A I 的 用 電 它 是 持 平 的\n\n10\n00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:27,752\n所 以 你 身 為 國 發 會 的 主 委 我 們 就 理 性 來 討 論 明 明 白 白 產 業 界 需 要 這 樣 的 電 量 所 以 我 說 我 非 常 的 期 待 我 們 的 郭 部 長 在 下 個 禮 拜 三 他 會 來 做 報 告 我 希 望 他 能 夠 拿 出 他 所 謂 的 國 內 所 需 的 電 力 到 底 是 多 少 但 是 我 們 回 歸 我 們 的 本 質 也 就 是 產 業 界 認 為 需 要 3 0 %\n\n11\n00:03:59,678 --> 00:04:00,438\n如 果 大 家 達 成 共 識 ﹖ 法 令 可 以 修 ﹖\n\n12\n00:04:16,565 --> 00:04:32,689\n我 們 先 不 要 怕 困 難 而 是 要 先 去 釐 清 我 們 的 目 標 到 底 是 什 麼 你 認 同 這 個 論 點 吧 我 無 法 否 認 但 是 我 想 委 員 講 的 也 是 謝 謝 你 的 無 法 否 認 但 是 您 來 本 席 再 告 訴 你 就 是 說\n\n13\n00:04:35,953 --> 00:04:50,712\n您 曾 經 說 了 兩 年 前 發 生 什 麼 事 我 們 都 很 清 楚 那 這 個 就 是 一 指 3 0 3 的 大 停 電 那 同 時 呢 您 在 兩 年 前 也 提 醒 了 賴 副 總 統 所 以 說 賴 副 總 統 他 很 清 楚\n\n14\n00:04:51,192 --> 00:04:51,332\n請 教 主 委 。\n\n15\n00:05:08,597 --> 00:05:37,334\n對 , 非 核 家 園 我 們 不 會 討 論 , 因 為 它 有 安 全 的 問 題 , 我 們 還 是 以 非 核 家 園 為 我 們 的 終 極 目 標 。 那 電 的 部 分 其 實 我 從 產 業 的 要 求 我 也 很 快 的 跟 台 電 做 了 盤 點 , 因 為 我 們 必 須 考 慮 一 個 事 , 如 果 法 令 的 東 西 沒 有 解 決 , 我 們 一 定 要 讓 電 足 夠 。 那 台 電 的 回 應 是 它 已 經 考 慮 完 了 , 就 即 使 核 電 停 掉 它 還 是 有 足 夠 的 電 , 所 以 基 本 上 是 台 電 的 當 時 的 跟 我 的 回 覆 。\n\n16\n00:05:37,534 --> 00:05:56,292\n但 是 3 3 會 理 事 長 林 柏 鋒 先 生 以 及 合 宿 董 事 長 童 子 賢 都 是 你 的 好 朋 友 他 們 呼 籲 請 正 式 核 能 發 電 可 行 性 甚 至 主 張 核 電 成 為 機 載 電 力 你 認 同 嗎 ? 你 會 把 他 納 入 你 的 考 慮 嗎 ?\n\n17\n00:05:58,311 --> 00:06:17,678\n我 的 邏 輯 很 簡 單 電 夠 就 不 需 要 去 考 慮 這 件 事 電 不 夠 當 然 就 需 要 考 慮 再 一 次 請 教 他 們 兩 位 所 呼 籲 的 就 是 核 能 發 電 的 可 能 性 主 張 核 電 成 為 機 載 電 力 會 在 你 的 討 論 項 目 之 內 嗎 以 目 前 現 在 台 電 給 我 的 回 覆 可 能 短 暫 不 會 因 為 法 令 的 問 題 是 無 法 解 決 的\n\n18\n00:06:28,035 --> 00:06:41,903\n以 台 電 告 訴 你 但 是 你 是 國 發 會 我 經 常 說 國 發 會 是 什 麼 呢 是 政 府 的 心 臟 是 政 府 的 頭 腦 所 以 你 要 好 好 去 檢 視 好 不 好 是 要 好 好 去 檢 視 好 不 好 謝 謝 委 員 是 好 那 你 要 願 意 要 檢 視 我 們 就 繼 續 來 討 論 喔\n\n19\n00:06:45,484 --> 00:07:10,758\n說 A I 的 部 分 呢 , 你 們 預 計 規 劃 在 北 部 跟 南 部 籌 設 A I 的 生 態 園 區 昨 天 我 也 接 受 了 論 壇 但 是 我 告 訴 社 會 大 眾 說 , 招 商 引 資 全 台 第 一 名 的 台 中 請 教 主 委 , 會 不 會 將 台 中 也 納 入 規 劃 將 A I 打 造 成 台 灣 第 二 座 的 護 國 神 山 山 群 的 地 位\n\n20\n00:07:13,139 --> 00:07:24,204\n這 是 一 定 會 的 , 台 中 會 納 入 吧 ? 會 會 會 , 我 們 今 天 有 初 步 討 論 過 台 中 一 定 要 納 入 , 因 為 我 們 台 中 不 管 是 在 地 理 位 置 、 在 我 們 的 教 育 環 境 裡 頭 、 交 通 體 系\n\n21\n00:07:26,465 --> 00:07:47,813\n人 文 生 活 都 是 一 等 一 的 城 市 而 且 我 們 的 科 研 區 如 火 如 土 在 建 置 同 時 呢 我 們 的 人 才 在 教 育 方 面 也 非 常 的 充 裕 、 豐 沛 這 是 最 佳 的 地 點 所 以 我 謝 謝 你 同 意 本 席 所 說 的 台 中 務 必 要 成 為 A I 的 最 重 要 的 基 地 之 一\n\n22\n00:07:48,695 --> 00:08:07,967\n同 意 吧 ? 同 意 , 同 意 好 , 我 們 就 一 起 繼 續 加 油 那 本 席 再 請 教 喔 剛 剛 呢 您 說 了 電 夠 可 是 台 電 告 訴 我 們 你 們 這 怎 麼 說 呢 ? 他 說 電 如 果 不 夠 的 時 候 他 可 以 隨 時 增 加 機 組 他 可 以 隨 時 增 加 機 組 在 我 的 家 鄉 我 們 的 火 力 發 電 廠 我 告 訴 主 委 我 們 已 經 用 廢 發 電 我 們 已 經 貢 獻 良 多 我 們 的 生 命 誠 可 貴\n\n23\n00:08:18,598 --> 00:08:32,248\n你 家 的 基 礎 不 能 加 在 我 們 的 身 上 不 能 加 在 我 們 的 身 上 我 正 式 告 訴 你 錄 影 錄 音 的 告 訴 你 臺 中 人 很 苦 了 不 可 以 再 加 火 力 的 基 礎 在 我 們 的 身 上\n\n24\n00:08:33,459 --> 00:08:50,874\n你 可 以 認 同 吧 是 的 我 順 便 跟 委 員 報 告 我 們 會 在 臺 中 做 一 個 實 驗 做 一 個 零 碳 電 的 實 驗 就 是 用 藍 綠 青 在 臺 中 他 是 零 碳 的 第 一 個 實 驗 點 就 會 在 這 個 也 就 是 你 在 討 論 的 綠 能 但 是 你 沒 回 答 剛 剛 本 席 不 能 加 火 力 發 電 廠 的 基 礎 因 為 我 們 議 會 我 們 也 有 一 個 減 碳 的 法 令 在 那 裡\n\n25\n00:08:57,407 --> 00:08:58,267\n是 的 , 我 會 照 顧 她 。\n\n26\n00:09:16,582 --> 00:09:17,343\n是 的 是 的\n\n27\n00:09:34,821 --> 00:09:53,672\n所 以 我 們 希 望 A I 教 護 的 你 能 夠 好 好 的 去 完 善 了 這 一 些 事 情 最 後 一 個 議 題 我 把 功 課 給 你 也 就 是 少 子 化 的 問 題 我 們 預 估 2 0 2 2 年 開 始 內 政 部 列 管 的 一 男 人 數 今 年 首 度 跌 破 了 1 0 萬 而 且 他 們 預 估 2 0 3 1 年 會 下 滑\n\n28\n00:10:00,316 --> 00:10:00,476\n主 委 ﹖\n\n29\n00:10:16,032 --> 00:10:16,052\n楊 瓊 瓔 委 員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n103\t584\t楊瓊瓔委員謝謝主席楊瓊瓔發言,邀請主委請主委\n18676\t44767\t首先恭喜主委因為來自產業界包括我們的經濟部長郭部長來自產業界所以人民滿心的期待尤其你更是AI的教父最近最火熱的就是這個議題所以接下來我們實質討論也就是請教因為郭部長來拜訪的時候他說他上任之後第一個重要的工作就是去盤點\n47009\t67908\t國內所需要的電量所以我非常的期待他的盤點結果那同樣的議題本席要請教因為我們在媒體上看到您說你不排斥核能因為郭部長也說喔郭部長說核能是乾淨的能源喔那您說的是不排斥核能\n68929\t92274\t當然你也提出必須要有三大原則所以本期要請教你這個不排斥2025年明年那麼我們的王前部長之前他也說了2025年的廢核家園是打不到的是跳票了他也非常坦白的直白的說那所以本期要請教那你何時能夠盤點這個結果出來\n97162\t112791\t電的部分的確是郭部長在做了那我們也會從他這邊一起多協調看一下我這邊是有提供他一些資訊就是AI的運算需要多少電力現在是台電看起來已經納進來評估了\n114933\t132827\t請教主委AI的部分大家都非常的清楚它的速度是超前不是教父你也清楚所以現在預估說提醒台電說AI的這個部分或許會是再深層電力的需求夠嗎\n135009\t137051\t三個percent跟三成是落差十倍!\n150802\t158190\t市主委如果照林市長所說的是3%是3%而已但是現在產業界很緊張欸產業界認為絕對會超過需求電量的3成所以等於是落差10倍\n167359\t183640\t委員講的是的確需要去滾動式的調整那30%是指的是運算中心的電力的提升就是它跟傳統的server之間它運算電力要大幅提升可是在一般的非AI的用電它是持平的\n184280\t207752\t所以你身為國發會的主委我們就理性來討論明明白白產業界需要這樣的電量所以我說我非常的期待我們的郭部長在下個禮拜三他會來做報告我希望他能夠拿出他所謂的國內所需的電力到底是多少但是我們回歸我們的本質也就是產業界認為需要30%\n209753\t239002\t呃﹗\n239678\t240438\t如果大家達成共識﹖法令可以修﹖\n256565\t272689\t我們先不要怕困難而是要先去釐清我們的目標到底是什麼你認同這個論點吧我無法否認但是我想委員講的也是謝謝你的無法否認但是您來本席再告訴你就是說\n275953\t290712\t您曾經說了兩年前發生什麼事我們都很清楚那這個就是一指303的大停電那同時呢您在兩年前也提醒了賴副總統所以說賴副總統他很清楚\n291192\t291332\t請教主委。\n308597\t337334\t對,非核家園我們不會討論,因為它有安全的問題,我們還是以非核家園為我們的終極目標。那電的部分其實我從產業的要求我也很快的跟台電做了盤點,因為我們必須考慮一個事,如果法令的東西沒有解決,我們一定要讓電足夠。那台電的回應是它已經考慮完了,就即使核電停掉它還是有足夠的電,所以基本上是台電的當時的跟我的回覆。\n337534\t356292\t但是33會理事長林柏鋒先生以及合宿董事長童子賢都是你的好朋友他們呼籲請正式核能發電可行性甚至主張核電成為機載電力你認同嗎?你會把他納入你的考慮嗎?\n358311\t377678\t我的邏輯很簡單電夠就不需要去考慮這件事電不夠當然就需要考慮再一次請教他們兩位所呼籲的就是核能發電的可能性主張核電成為機載電力會在你的討論項目之內嗎以目前現在台電給我的回覆可能短暫不會因為法令的問題是無法解決的\n388035\t401903\t以台電告訴你但是你是國發會我經常說國發會是什麼呢是政府的心臟是政府的頭腦所以你要好好去檢視好不好是要好好去檢視好不好謝謝委員是好那你要願意要檢視我們就繼續來討論喔\n405484\t430758\t說AI的部分呢,你們預計規劃在北部跟南部籌設AI的生態園區昨天我也接受了論壇但是我告訴社會大眾說,招商引資全台第一名的台中請教主委,會不會將台中也納入規劃將AI打造成台灣第二座的護國神山山群的地位\n433139\t444204\t這是一定會的,台中會納入吧?會會會,我們今天有初步討論過台中一定要納入,因為我們台中不管是在地理位置、在我們的教育環境裡頭、交通體系\n446465\t467813\t人文生活都是一等一的城市而且我們的科研區如火如土在建置同時呢我們的人才在教育方面也非常的充裕、豐沛這是最佳的地點所以我謝謝你同意本席所說的台中務必要成為AI的最重要的基地之一\n468695\t487967\t同意吧?同意,同意好,我們就一起繼續加油那本席再請教喔剛剛呢您說了電夠可是台電告訴我們你們這怎麼說呢?他說電如果不夠的時候他可以隨時增加機組他可以隨時增加機組在我的家鄉我們的火力發電廠我告訴主委我們已經用廢發電我們已經貢獻良多我們的生命誠可貴\n498598\t512248\t你家的基礎不能加在我們的身上不能加在我們的身上我正式告訴你錄影錄音的告訴你臺中人很苦了不可以再加火力的基礎在我們的身上\n513459\t530874\t你可以認同吧是的我順便跟委員報告我們會在臺中做一個實驗做一個零碳電的實驗就是用藍綠青在臺中他是零碳的第一個實驗點就會在這個也就是你在討論的綠能但是你沒回答剛剛本席不能加火力發電廠的基礎因為我們議會我們也有一個減碳的法令在那裡\n537407\t538267\t是的,我會照顧她。\n556582\t557343\t是的 是的\n574821\t593672\t所以我們希望AI教護的你能夠好好的去完善了這一些事情最後一個議題我把功課給你也就是少子化的問題我們預估2022年開始內政部列管的一男人數今年首度跌破了10萬而且他們預估2031年會下滑\n600316\t600476\t主委﹖\n616032\t616052\t楊瓊瓔委員\n","txt":"楊瓊瓔委員謝謝主席楊瓊瓔發言,邀請主委請主委\n首先恭喜主委因為來自產業界包括我們的經濟部長郭部長來自產業界所以人民滿心的期待尤其你更是AI的教父最近最火熱的就是這個議題所以接下來我們實質討論也就是請教因為郭部長來拜訪的時候他說他上任之後第一個重要的工作就是去盤點\n國內所需要的電量所以我非常的期待他的盤點結果那同樣的議題本席要請教因為我們在媒體上看到您說你不排斥核能因為郭部長也說喔郭部長說核能是乾淨的能源喔那您說的是不排斥核能\n當然你也提出必須要有三大原則所以本期要請教你這個不排斥2025年明年那麼我們的王前部長之前他也說了2025年的廢核家園是打不到的是跳票了他也非常坦白的直白的說那所以本期要請教那你何時能夠盤點這個結果出來\n電的部分的確是郭部長在做了那我們也會從他這邊一起多協調看一下我這邊是有提供他一些資訊就是AI的運算需要多少電力現在是台電看起來已經納進來評估了\n請教主委AI的部分大家都非常的清楚它的速度是超前不是教父你也清楚所以現在預估說提醒台電說AI的這個部分或許會是再深層電力的需求夠嗎\n三個percent跟三成是落差十倍!\n市主委如果照林市長所說的是3%是3%而已但是現在產業界很緊張欸產業界認為絕對會超過需求電量的3成所以等於是落差10倍\n委員講的是的確需要去滾動式的調整那30%是指的是運算中心的電力的提升就是它跟傳統的server之間它運算電力要大幅提升可是在一般的非AI的用電它是持平的\n所以你身為國發會的主委我們就理性來討論明明白白產業界需要這樣的電量所以我說我非常的期待我們的郭部長在下個禮拜三他會來做報告我希望他能夠拿出他所謂的國內所需的電力到底是多少但是我們回歸我們的本質也就是產業界認為需要30%\n呃﹗\n如果大家達成共識﹖法令可以修﹖\n我們先不要怕困難而是要先去釐清我們的目標到底是什麼你認同這個論點吧我無法否認但是我想委員講的也是謝謝你的無法否認但是您來本席再告訴你就是說\n您曾經說了兩年前發生什麼事我們都很清楚那這個就是一指303的大停電那同時呢您在兩年前也提醒了賴副總統所以說賴副總統他很清楚\n請教主委。\n對,非核家園我們不會討論,因為它有安全的問題,我們還是以非核家園為我們的終極目標。那電的部分其實我從產業的要求我也很快的跟台電做了盤點,因為我們必須考慮一個事,如果法令的東西沒有解決,我們一定要讓電足夠。那台電的回應是它已經考慮完了,就即使核電停掉它還是有足夠的電,所以基本上是台電的當時的跟我的回覆。\n但是33會理事長林柏鋒先生以及合宿董事長童子賢都是你的好朋友他們呼籲請正式核能發電可行性甚至主張核電成為機載電力你認同嗎?你會把他納入你的考慮嗎?\n我的邏輯很簡單電夠就不需要去考慮這件事電不夠當然就需要考慮再一次請教他們兩位所呼籲的就是核能發電的可能性主張核電成為機載電力會在你的討論項目之內嗎以目前現在台電給我的回覆可能短暫不會因為法令的問題是無法解決的\n以台電告訴你但是你是國發會我經常說國發會是什麼呢是政府的心臟是政府的頭腦所以你要好好去檢視好不好是要好好去檢視好不好謝謝委員是好那你要願意要檢視我們就繼續來討論喔\n說AI的部分呢,你們預計規劃在北部跟南部籌設AI的生態園區昨天我也接受了論壇但是我告訴社會大眾說,招商引資全台第一名的台中請教主委,會不會將台中也納入規劃將AI打造成台灣第二座的護國神山山群的地位\n這是一定會的,台中會納入吧?會會會,我們今天有初步討論過台中一定要納入,因為我們台中不管是在地理位置、在我們的教育環境裡頭、交通體系\n人文生活都是一等一的城市而且我們的科研區如火如土在建置同時呢我們的人才在教育方面也非常的充裕、豐沛這是最佳的地點所以我謝謝你同意本席所說的台中務必要成為AI的最重要的基地之一\n同意吧?同意,同意好,我們就一起繼續加油那本席再請教喔剛剛呢您說了電夠可是台電告訴我們你們這怎麼說呢?他說電如果不夠的時候他可以隨時增加機組他可以隨時增加機組在我的家鄉我們的火力發電廠我告訴主委我們已經用廢發電我們已經貢獻良多我們的生命誠可貴\n你家的基礎不能加在我們的身上不能加在我們的身上我正式告訴你錄影錄音的告訴你臺中人很苦了不可以再加火力的基礎在我們的身上\n你可以認同吧是的我順便跟委員報告我們會在臺中做一個實驗做一個零碳電的實驗就是用藍綠青在臺中他是零碳的第一個實驗點就會在這個也就是你在討論的綠能但是你沒回答剛剛本席不能加火力發電廠的基礎因為我們議會我們也有一個減碳的法令在那裡\n是的,我會照顧她。\n是的 是的\n所以我們希望AI教護的你能夠好好的去完善了這一些事情最後一個議題我把功課給你也就是少子化的問題我們預估2022年開始內政部列管的一男人數今年首度跌破了10萬而且他們預估2031年會下滑\n主委﹖\n楊瓊瓔委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.103 --> 00:00.584\n楊 瓊 瓔 委 員 謝 謝 主 席 楊 瓊 瓔 發 言 , 邀 請 主 委 請 主 委\n\n00:18.676 --> 00:44.767\n首 先 恭 喜 主 委 因 為 來 自 產 業 界 包 括 我 們 的 經 濟 部 長 郭 部 長 來 自 產 業 界 所 以 人 民 滿 心 的 期 待 尤 其 你 更 是 A I 的 教 父 最 近 最 火 熱 的 就 是 這 個 議 題 所 以 接 下 來 我 們 實 質 討 論 也 就 是 請 教 因 為 郭 部 長 來 拜 訪 的 時 候 他 說 他 上 任 之 後 第 一 個 重 要 的 工 作 就 是 去 盤 點\n\n00:47.009 --> 01:07.908\n國 內 所 需 要 的 電 量 所 以 我 非 常 的 期 待 他 的 盤 點 結 果 那 同 樣 的 議 題 本 席 要 請 教 因 為 我 們 在 媒 體 上 看 到 您 說 你 不 排 斥 核 能 因 為 郭 部 長 也 說 喔 郭 部 長 說 核 能 是 乾 淨 的 能 源 喔 那 您 說 的 是 不 排 斥 核 能\n\n01:08.929 --> 01:32.274\n當 然 你 也 提 出 必 須 要 有 三 大 原 則 所 以 本 期 要 請 教 你 這 個 不 排 斥 2 0 2 5 年 明 年 那 麼 我 們 的 王 前 部 長 之 前 他 也 說 了 2 0 2 5 年 的 廢 核 家 園 是 打 不 到 的 是 跳 票 了 他 也 非 常 坦 白 的 直 白 的 說 那 所 以 本 期 要 請 教 那 你 何 時 能 夠 盤 點 這 個 結 果 出 來\n\n01:37.162 --> 01:52.791\n電 的 部 分 的 確 是 郭 部 長 在 做 了 那 我 們 也 會 從 他 這 邊 一 起 多 協 調 看 一 下 我 這 邊 是 有 提 供 他 一 些 資 訊 就 是 A I 的 運 算 需 要 多 少 電 力 現 在 是 台 電 看 起 來 已 經 納 進 來 評 估 了\n\n01:54.933 --> 02:12.827\n請 教 主 委 A I 的 部 分 大 家 都 非 常 的 清 楚 它 的 速 度 是 超 前 不 是 教 父 你 也 清 楚 所 以 現 在 預 估 說 提 醒 台 電 說 A I 的 這 個 部 分 或 許 會 是 再 深 層 電 力 的 需 求 夠 嗎\n\n02:15.009 --> 02:17.051\n三 個 p e r c e n t 跟 三 成 是 落 差 十 倍 !\n\n02:30.802 --> 02:38.190\n市 主 委 如 果 照 林 市 長 所 說 的 是 3 % 是 3 % 而 已 但 是 現 在 產 業 界 很 緊 張 欸 產 業 界 認 為 絕 對 會 超 過 需 求 電 量 的 3 成 所 以 等 於 是 落 差 1 0 倍\n\n02:47.359 --> 03:03.640\n委 員 講 的 是 的 確 需 要 去 滾 動 式 的 調 整 那 3 0 % 是 指 的 是 運 算 中 心 的 電 力 的 提 升 就 是 它 跟 傳 統 的 s e r v e r 之 間 它 運 算 電 力 要 大 幅 提 升 可 是 在 一 般 的 非 A I 的 用 電 它 是 持 平 的\n\n03:04.280 --> 03:27.752\n所 以 你 身 為 國 發 會 的 主 委 我 們 就 理 性 來 討 論 明 明 白 白 產 業 界 需 要 這 樣 的 電 量 所 以 我 說 我 非 常 的 期 待 我 們 的 郭 部 長 在 下 個 禮 拜 三 他 會 來 做 報 告 我 希 望 他 能 夠 拿 出 他 所 謂 的 國 內 所 需 的 電 力 到 底 是 多 少 但 是 我 們 回 歸 我 們 的 本 質 也 就 是 產 業 界 認 為 需 要 3 0 %\n\n03:59.678 --> 04:00.438\n如 果 大 家 達 成 共 識 ﹖ 法 令 可 以 修 ﹖\n\n04:16.565 --> 04:32.689\n我 們 先 不 要 怕 困 難 而 是 要 先 去 釐 清 我 們 的 目 標 到 底 是 什 麼 你 認 同 這 個 論 點 吧 我 無 法 否 認 但 是 我 想 委 員 講 的 也 是 謝 謝 你 的 無 法 否 認 但 是 您 來 本 席 再 告 訴 你 就 是 說\n\n04:35.953 --> 04:50.712\n您 曾 經 說 了 兩 年 前 發 生 什 麼 事 我 們 都 很 清 楚 那 這 個 就 是 一 指 3 0 3 的 大 停 電 那 同 時 呢 您 在 兩 年 前 也 提 醒 了 賴 副 總 統 所 以 說 賴 副 總 統 他 很 清 楚\n\n04:51.192 --> 04:51.332\n請 教 主 委 。\n\n05:08.597 --> 05:37.334\n對 , 非 核 家 園 我 們 不 會 討 論 , 因 為 它 有 安 全 的 問 題 , 我 們 還 是 以 非 核 家 園 為 我 們 的 終 極 目 標 。 那 電 的 部 分 其 實 我 從 產 業 的 要 求 我 也 很 快 的 跟 台 電 做 了 盤 點 , 因 為 我 們 必 須 考 慮 一 個 事 , 如 果 法 令 的 東 西 沒 有 解 決 , 我 們 一 定 要 讓 電 足 夠 。 那 台 電 的 回 應 是 它 已 經 考 慮 完 了 , 就 即 使 核 電 停 掉 它 還 是 有 足 夠 的 電 , 所 以 基 本 上 是 台 電 的 當 時 的 跟 我 的 回 覆 。\n\n05:37.534 --> 05:56.292\n但 是 3 3 會 理 事 長 林 柏 鋒 先 生 以 及 合 宿 董 事 長 童 子 賢 都 是 你 的 好 朋 友 他 們 呼 籲 請 正 式 核 能 發 電 可 行 性 甚 至 主 張 核 電 成 為 機 載 電 力 你 認 同 嗎 ? 你 會 把 他 納 入 你 的 考 慮 嗎 ?\n\n05:58.311 --> 06:17.678\n我 的 邏 輯 很 簡 單 電 夠 就 不 需 要 去 考 慮 這 件 事 電 不 夠 當 然 就 需 要 考 慮 再 一 次 請 教 他 們 兩 位 所 呼 籲 的 就 是 核 能 發 電 的 可 能 性 主 張 核 電 成 為 機 載 電 力 會 在 你 的 討 論 項 目 之 內 嗎 以 目 前 現 在 台 電 給 我 的 回 覆 可 能 短 暫 不 會 因 為 法 令 的 問 題 是 無 法 解 決 的\n\n06:28.035 --> 06:41.903\n以 台 電 告 訴 你 但 是 你 是 國 發 會 我 經 常 說 國 發 會 是 什 麼 呢 是 政 府 的 心 臟 是 政 府 的 頭 腦 所 以 你 要 好 好 去 檢 視 好 不 好 是 要 好 好 去 檢 視 好 不 好 謝 謝 委 員 是 好 那 你 要 願 意 要 檢 視 我 們 就 繼 續 來 討 論 喔\n\n06:45.484 --> 07:10.758\n說 A I 的 部 分 呢 , 你 們 預 計 規 劃 在 北 部 跟 南 部 籌 設 A I 的 生 態 園 區 昨 天 我 也 接 受 了 論 壇 但 是 我 告 訴 社 會 大 眾 說 , 招 商 引 資 全 台 第 一 名 的 台 中 請 教 主 委 , 會 不 會 將 台 中 也 納 入 規 劃 將 A I 打 造 成 台 灣 第 二 座 的 護 國 神 山 山 群 的 地 位\n\n07:13.139 --> 07:24.204\n這 是 一 定 會 的 , 台 中 會 納 入 吧 ? 會 會 會 , 我 們 今 天 有 初 步 討 論 過 台 中 一 定 要 納 入 , 因 為 我 們 台 中 不 管 是 在 地 理 位 置 、 在 我 們 的 教 育 環 境 裡 頭 、 交 通 體 系\n\n07:26.465 --> 07:47.813\n人 文 生 活 都 是 一 等 一 的 城 市 而 且 我 們 的 科 研 區 如 火 如 土 在 建 置 同 時 呢 我 們 的 人 才 在 教 育 方 面 也 非 常 的 充 裕 、 豐 沛 這 是 最 佳 的 地 點 所 以 我 謝 謝 你 同 意 本 席 所 說 的 台 中 務 必 要 成 為 A I 的 最 重 要 的 基 地 之 一\n\n07:48.695 --> 08:07.967\n同 意 吧 ? 同 意 , 同 意 好 , 我 們 就 一 起 繼 續 加 油 那 本 席 再 請 教 喔 剛 剛 呢 您 說 了 電 夠 可 是 台 電 告 訴 我 們 你 們 這 怎 麼 說 呢 ? 他 說 電 如 果 不 夠 的 時 候 他 可 以 隨 時 增 加 機 組 他 可 以 隨 時 增 加 機 組 在 我 的 家 鄉 我 們 的 火 力 發 電 廠 我 告 訴 主 委 我 們 已 經 用 廢 發 電 我 們 已 經 貢 獻 良 多 我 們 的 生 命 誠 可 貴\n\n08:18.598 --> 08:32.248\n你 家 的 基 礎 不 能 加 在 我 們 的 身 上 不 能 加 在 我 們 的 身 上 我 正 式 告 訴 你 錄 影 錄 音 的 告 訴 你 臺 中 人 很 苦 了 不 可 以 再 加 火 力 的 基 礎 在 我 們 的 身 上\n\n08:33.459 --> 08:50.874\n你 可 以 認 同 吧 是 的 我 順 便 跟 委 員 報 告 我 們 會 在 臺 中 做 一 個 實 驗 做 一 個 零 碳 電 的 實 驗 就 是 用 藍 綠 青 在 臺 中 他 是 零 碳 的 第 一 個 實 驗 點 就 會 在 這 個 也 就 是 你 在 討 論 的 綠 能 但 是 你 沒 回 答 剛 剛 本 席 不 能 加 火 力 發 電 廠 的 基 礎 因 為 我 們 議 會 我 們 也 有 一 個 減 碳 的 法 令 在 那 裡\n\n08:57.407 --> 08:58.267\n是 的 , 我 會 照 顧 她 。\n\n09:16.582 --> 09:17.343\n是 的 是 的\n\n09:34.821 --> 09:53.672\n所 以 我 們 希 望 A I 教 護 的 你 能 夠 好 好 的 去 完 善 了 這 一 些 事 情 最 後 一 個 議 題 我 把 功 課 給 你 也 就 是 少 子 化 的 問 題 我 們 預 估 2 0 2 2 年 開 始 內 政 部 列 管 的 一 男 人 數 今 年 首 度 跌 破 了 1 0 萬 而 且 他 們 預 估 2 0 3 1 年 會 下 滑\n\n10:00.316 --> 10:00.476\n主 委 ﹖\n\n10:16.032 --> 10:16.052\n楊 瓊 瓔 委 員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.103,"end":0.584,"text":"楊瓊瓔委員謝謝主席楊瓊瓔發言,邀請主委請主委"},{"start":18.676,"end":44.767,"text":"首先恭喜主委因為來自產業界包括我們的經濟部長郭部長來自產業界所以人民滿心的期待尤其你更是AI的教父最近最火熱的就是這個議題所以接下來我們實質討論也就是請教因為郭部長來拜訪的時候他說他上任之後第一個重要的工作就是去盤點"},{"start":47.009,"end":67.908,"text":"國內所需要的電量所以我非常的期待他的盤點結果那同樣的議題本席要請教因為我們在媒體上看到您說你不排斥核能因為郭部長也說喔郭部長說核能是乾淨的能源喔那您說的是不排斥核能"},{"start":68.929,"end":92.274,"text":"當然你也提出必須要有三大原則所以本期要請教你這個不排斥2025年明年那麼我們的王前部長之前他也說了2025年的廢核家園是打不到的是跳票了他也非常坦白的直白的說那所以本期要請教那你何時能夠盤點這個結果出來"},{"start":97.162,"end":112.791,"text":"電的部分的確是郭部長在做了那我們也會從他這邊一起多協調看一下我這邊是有提供他一些資訊就是AI的運算需要多少電力現在是台電看起來已經納進來評估了"},{"start":114.933,"end":132.827,"text":"請教主委AI的部分大家都非常的清楚它的速度是超前不是教父你也清楚所以現在預估說提醒台電說AI的這個部分或許會是再深層電力的需求夠嗎"},{"start":135.009,"end":137.051,"text":"三個percent跟三成是落差十倍!"},{"start":150.802,"end":158.19,"text":"市主委如果照林市長所說的是3%是3%而已但是現在產業界很緊張欸產業界認為絕對會超過需求電量的3成所以等於是落差10倍"},{"start":167.359,"end":183.64,"text":"委員講的是的確需要去滾動式的調整那30%是指的是運算中心的電力的提升就是它跟傳統的server之間它運算電力要大幅提升可是在一般的非AI的用電它是持平的"},{"start":184.28,"end":207.752,"text":"所以你身為國發會的主委我們就理性來討論明明白白產業界需要這樣的電量所以我說我非常的期待我們的郭部長在下個禮拜三他會來做報告我希望他能夠拿出他所謂的國內所需的電力到底是多少但是我們回歸我們的本質也就是產業界認為需要30%"},{"start":209.753,"end":239.002,"text":"呃﹗"},{"start":239.678,"end":240.438,"text":"如果大家達成共識﹖法令可以修﹖"},{"start":256.565,"end":272.689,"text":"我們先不要怕困難而是要先去釐清我們的目標到底是什麼你認同這個論點吧我無法否認但是我想委員講的也是謝謝你的無法否認但是您來本席再告訴你就是說"},{"start":275.953,"end":290.712,"text":"您曾經說了兩年前發生什麼事我們都很清楚那這個就是一指303的大停電那同時呢您在兩年前也提醒了賴副總統所以說賴副總統他很清楚"},{"start":291.192,"end":291.332,"text":"請教主委。"},{"start":308.597,"end":337.334,"text":"對,非核家園我們不會討論,因為它有安全的問題,我們還是以非核家園為我們的終極目標。那電的部分其實我從產業的要求我也很快的跟台電做了盤點,因為我們必須考慮一個事,如果法令的東西沒有解決,我們一定要讓電足夠。那台電的回應是它已經考慮完了,就即使核電停掉它還是有足夠的電,所以基本上是台電的當時的跟我的回覆。"},{"start":337.534,"end":356.292,"text":"但是33會理事長林柏鋒先生以及合宿董事長童子賢都是你的好朋友他們呼籲請正式核能發電可行性甚至主張核電成為機載電力你認同嗎?你會把他納入你的考慮嗎?"},{"start":358.311,"end":377.678,"text":"我的邏輯很簡單電夠就不需要去考慮這件事電不夠當然就需要考慮再一次請教他們兩位所呼籲的就是核能發電的可能性主張核電成為機載電力會在你的討論項目之內嗎以目前現在台電給我的回覆可能短暫不會因為法令的問題是無法解決的"},{"start":388.035,"end":401.903,"text":"以台電告訴你但是你是國發會我經常說國發會是什麼呢是政府的心臟是政府的頭腦所以你要好好去檢視好不好是要好好去檢視好不好謝謝委員是好那你要願意要檢視我們就繼續來討論喔"},{"start":405.484,"end":430.758,"text":"說AI的部分呢,你們預計規劃在北部跟南部籌設AI的生態園區昨天我也接受了論壇但是我告訴社會大眾說,招商引資全台第一名的台中請教主委,會不會將台中也納入規劃將AI打造成台灣第二座的護國神山山群的地位"},{"start":433.139,"end":444.204,"text":"這是一定會的,台中會納入吧?會會會,我們今天有初步討論過台中一定要納入,因為我們台中不管是在地理位置、在我們的教育環境裡頭、交通體系"},{"start":446.465,"end":467.813,"text":"人文生活都是一等一的城市而且我們的科研區如火如土在建置同時呢我們的人才在教育方面也非常的充裕、豐沛這是最佳的地點所以我謝謝你同意本席所說的台中務必要成為AI的最重要的基地之一"},{"start":468.695,"end":487.967,"text":"同意吧?同意,同意好,我們就一起繼續加油那本席再請教喔剛剛呢您說了電夠可是台電告訴我們你們這怎麼說呢?他說電如果不夠的時候他可以隨時增加機組他可以隨時增加機組在我的家鄉我們的火力發電廠我告訴主委我們已經用廢發電我們已經貢獻良多我們的生命誠可貴"},{"start":498.598,"end":512.248,"text":"你家的基礎不能加在我們的身上不能加在我們的身上我正式告訴你錄影錄音的告訴你臺中人很苦了不可以再加火力的基礎在我們的身上"},{"start":513.459,"end":530.874,"text":"你可以認同吧是的我順便跟委員報告我們會在臺中做一個實驗做一個零碳電的實驗就是用藍綠青在臺中他是零碳的第一個實驗點就會在這個也就是你在討論的綠能但是你沒回答剛剛本席不能加火力發電廠的基礎因為我們議會我們也有一個減碳的法令在那裡"},{"start":537.407,"end":538.267,"text":"是的,我會照顧她。"},{"start":556.582,"end":557.343,"text":"是的 是的"},{"start":574.821,"end":593.672,"text":"所以我們希望AI教護的你能夠好好的去完善了這一些事情最後一個議題我把功課給你也就是少子化的問題我們預估2022年開始內政部列管的一男人數今年首度跌破了10萬而且他們預估2031年會下滑"},{"start":600.316,"end":600.476,"text":"主委﹖"},{"start":616.032,"end":616.052,"text":"楊瓊瓔委員"}]}}}}