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10:03:28","影片長度":"00:08:48","會議時間":"2024-05-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【5月27日、5月29日及5月30日三天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-30","duration":528,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-14"},"end_time":"2024-05-30T10:03:28+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-30T09:54:40+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":161,"blocks":[["呂委員玉玲：（9時54分）謝謝主席，請劉主委。"],["主席：我們再請主委。"],["呂委員玉玲：劉主委好。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：委員早。"],["呂委員玉玲：大家都知道你來自於產業，而且你擅長於管理跟數位的轉型，尤其非常熟悉整個產業的趨勢，現在你到了我們的國發會，對於我們整個國家的策略跟整體，你有了更加重中之重的工作，尤其是我們整個產業的轉型，還有中大型企業競爭力的提升，都是最重要的工作，對不對？所以我們也期許你能夠整合跨部會，讓我們臺灣的經濟再創奇蹟，經濟能夠更好，好不好？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好，謝謝委員。"],["呂委員玉玲：主委，經濟部長郭智輝有特別提到核能是乾淨的能源，這就代表著我們核能是否要除役的問題是非常的重要，尤其是他也提到了AI產業還有我們的半導體，是極高的需要用電，所以電夠不夠非常的重要，剛剛聽到主委一再說台電告訴你電夠，但我們桃園一直在停電、跳電，這樣的情況下，主委，電夠不夠你自己要有個判斷，因為你知道很多產業是急需要用電的，是不是？所以電夠不夠？有沒有缺電？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是的，的確我跟產業其實是有常常密切在接觸，而現在整個用電的狀況是比兩年前改善非常多，這是事實……"],["呂委員玉玲：為什麼桃園還跳電、停電這麼多次呢？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：之前剛好我有去一個會議，他們剛好有來報告，就是整個電網的韌性是有很大的問題，他們的回答是這樣，而我自己有個經驗，也順便分享一下，幾年前我們去做了台電研究所的相關資料，就發現他們當年有很多東西是比較老舊的，而它現在正在做一些老舊設備的更換……"],["呂委員玉玲：主委，你認為有沒有缺電？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：目前從民間的反映跟台電強烈的兩次說明……"],["呂委員玉玲：你不要聽台電說，你的判斷呢？你來自產業，應該很清楚，所以……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：至少產業目前是沒有跟我反映過缺電這件事情。"],["呂委員玉玲：產業沒有？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：沒有，目前沒有。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以主委，我們希望你在產業跟民生用電的角度來講，我們的能源政策真的是有調整的空間。","接下來我要跟你提的是，3月21號的國際能源會議，美國跟大陸、跟歐洲各國，還包括曾經受到核災的日本都宣示，為了達到淨零排放的目標，將要擴大核能的使用，我們臺灣到現在的能源能不能跟國際接軌，還是要看行政院是不是首肯，在這種情形之下，我們新任的行政院卓榮泰院長表示，非核家園是永不放棄的目標，這就代表著核三廠一號、二號機，雖然今年跟明年就要除役了，在這種情形之下，2050年我們淨零排放這個路徑、這個策略是很難達到的，因為再生能源就要達到60%以上了。你認為做得到嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：如果是從長期的淨零碳排來看，我認為做得到，最主要的原因是氫能源的發展會越來越快速，現在是過渡期，我們有藍綠氫可以做過渡，而這個藍綠氫的應用，不只是我們在電廠應用，現在有些企業在做它自己的備用電源時，也開始啟用了藍綠氫，原因是它是一個綠電，對企業在外銷的時候是很有幫助的，畢竟它本來就要做備援系統，大量進行的時候就會解決這個問題。"],["呂委員玉玲：我要提醒主委，2016年蔡英文總統剛上任，那時候再生能源只有4.8%，經過風風雨雨、風風火火等等的情形，才提高到9.47%，現在2050要達到60%以上，才26年的時間，要達到真的很困難，但是剛剛你特別提到了氫，氫現在的技術還沒有成熟，就現在來講，你說大概可以達到5%的發電占比，但是你這個是混合氫，就是天然氣跟氫的混合，還有就是你剛剛講的藍綠氫，就這個部分，要達到60%，2035年就要大量來運轉，你認為可能嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：2035年大量運轉是綠氫，它是完全透過水去電解……"],["呂委員玉玲：對，所以你現在是混合氫，到了2035年是綠氫，綠氫2050年就達到整個是純淨的氫，是不是？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，它是乾淨的能源。"],["呂委員玉玲：它就能夠解決，而且完全沒有碳的排放。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：而且它對臺灣的保障更好，因為它的原料是水，所以它來自水……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以你有信心嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我有信心。"],["呂委員玉玲：好，我們期待你有的信心，因為剩下26年的時間，2035年綠氫就要開始大量運轉的話，它占比再生能源就要達到60%到70%，這是能源政策，是你們公布的2050年的能源政策。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以我們希望你都要能夠做到。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：再來，我們看到這次我們賴政府的宣言裡面提到了五大信賴產業，跟蔡英文之前提的六大戰略產業，這當中的差別性，我們看到了我們賴政府並沒有談到整個再生能源跟綠能的產業，為什麼沒有談到？難道他對這個再生能源、綠能已經沒有信心了嗎？還是不是核心的、重要的產業？還是說已經碰到瓶頸了？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：它是已經突破瓶頸了，我舉個例子，一開始我們做水下樁，是9個月做1支，因為我們的3D焊接的精度不足、鋼構不足，現在都克服了，現在1個月可以做到9支，所以它過去比較艱困的部分已經克服，已經是一個比較可以正式商轉的環境了，等於它的輔導期已經快結束了。"],["呂委員玉玲：主委，本席在這邊還要提醒你，因為氫氣發電的整個技術還不夠成熟，我們需要很多時間去克服，何時可以正式商轉，也不是你說了時間它就一定能夠商轉，都是未定數，所以在2050年要達到淨零排放這個目標、這個願景，還是我們要多多考慮是不是能夠將核能重新納入考量，這個是非常的重要，我們也希望你能夠整合各方的意見，你可以給我們現在的賴政府、賴總統什麼建議呢？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：其實我給他的建議也是綠氫，我看了很多的paper，過去我們在研究這方面著墨很深，因為以前我有一個永續公司，大概有八十幾個員工，全球的報告研究下來，連空中巴士都宣稱它在2035年要做第一臺綠氫飛機，歐洲現在從垃圾車到交通工具都在做實驗，包括渡輪，包括德國的工業區，其實我們去看關西電力的備用電力也都是綠氫，臺灣現在很多科技也開始在推動氫能源的備援系統，就不再是傳統發電機，這個動作已經是進行式了，所以它的成熟期會越來越快。"],["呂委員玉玲：主委，都是在進行式當中，主委你知道嗎？2030年貿易出口就是要零碳排放，所以未來我們的貿易出口如果有碳的問題，要繳碳稅的問題，就會增加他們的成本，所以我們希望我們不要在紙上談兵，2050年要達到60%、70%，做得到、做不到？我們所有的貿易、所有的企業都很擔心未來碳稅的問題，所以主委，這個你要給總統好好的建議，好不好？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是的，好的，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來請賴瑞隆委員進行詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":402,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-14","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","邱議瑩","鄭正鈐","呂玉玲","賴瑞隆","鄭天財Sra 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其 是 也 提 到 了 A I 產 業 還 有 我 們 的 半 導 體 它 是 極 高 需 要 的 用 電\n\n5\n00:01:49,423 --> 00:02:06,302\n是 不 是 ? 電 夠 不 夠 ? 有 沒 有 缺 電 ? 是 的 , 我 的 確 我 跟 產 業 我 們 其 實 常 常 密 切 的 在 接 觸 那 現 在 因 為 整 個 用 電 的 狀 況 是 比 兩 年 前 改 善 非 常 多 這 是 事 實 那 為 什 麼 桃 園 停 電 這 麼 多 次 呢 ?\n\n6\n00:02:06,602 --> 00:02:07,922\n主 委 , 您 認 為 有 沒 有 缺 點 ?\n\n7\n00:02:30,114 --> 00:02:35,796\n主 委 , 我 們 希 望 您 在 產 業 跟 民 生 用 電 的 角 度 來 講 我 們 的 能 源 政 策 真 的 是 有 調 整 的 空 間\n\n8\n00:02:54,384 --> 00:03:08,242\n接 下 來 我 要 跟 你 提 的 就 是 說 在 3 月 2 1 日 的 國 際 能 源 的 會 議 美 國 跟 大 陸 跟 歐 洲 各 國 包 括 了 曾 經 受 到 核 災 的 日 本 都 宣 誓 要 為 了 達 到 淨 零 排 放 這 個 目 標 將 要 擴 大\n\n9\n00:03:10,285 --> 00:03:10,305\n﹚ 呂 玲\n\n10\n00:03:25,586 --> 00:03:46,844\n非 核 家 園 是 這 個 目 標 是 永 不 放 棄 的 目 標 那 這 就 代 表 著 河 山 廠 的 一 號 二 號 機 仍 然 在 這 個 今 年 跟 明 年 就 是 要 除 役 了 在 這 種 情 形 之 下 2 0 5 0 年 我 們 的 淨 零 排 放 這 個 路 徑 這 個 策 略 是 很 難 達 到 的 因 為 再 生 能 源 就 要 達 到 6 0 % 以 上 了 你 認 為 做 得 到 嗎\n\n11\n00:03:51,379 --> 00:03:54,921\n對 他 企 業 在 外 銷 的 時 候 是 很 有 幫 助 的 那 他 本 來 就 要 做 備 援 系 統 大 量 的 進 行 就 會 解 決\n\n12\n00:04:38,450 --> 00:04:38,570\n您 認 為 可 能 嗎 ?\n\n13\n00:05:08,326 --> 00:05:17,021\n2 0 3 5 年 大 量 運 轉 是 濾 清 是 完 全 透 過 水 去 電 解 所 以 你 現 在 是 混 合 清 到 了 2 0 3 5 年 的 話 是 濾 清 濾 清 2 0 5 0 年 就 達 到 整 個 是 我 們 純 淨 的 清\n\n14\n00:05:22,062 --> 00:05:44,011\n對 ﹖ 他 是 感 激 ﹖ 他 就 能 夠 解 決 完 全 沒 有 碳 的 排 放 ﹖ 而 且 他 對 臺 灣 的 保 障 更 好 ﹖ 你 有 信 心 ﹖ 因 為 他 原 料 是 水 ﹖ 所 以 他 來 自 水 ﹖ 你 有 信 心 嗎 ﹖ 我 有 信 心 了 ﹖ 好 ﹖ 我 們 期 待 你 有 的 信 心 ﹖ 因 為 剩 下 2 6 年 的 時 間 2 0 3 5 年 就 來 這 個 濾 清 就 開 始 大 量 的 運 轉 的 話 ﹖ 他 佔 比 再 生 能 源 就 要 達 到 6 0 % 到 7 0 % ﹖\n\n15\n00:05:47,012 --> 00:06:12,867\n這 是 能 源 政 策 是 你 們 公 布 的 2 0 5 0 年 的 能 源 政 策 所 以 我 們 希 望 你 都 要 能 夠 做 到 那 再 來 就 是 說 因 為 我 們 看 到 在 這 一 次 我 們 賴 政 府 他 的 宣 言 裡 面 他 有 講 說 五 大 信 賴 產 業 五 大 的 信 賴 產 業 跟 蔡 英 文 之 前 的 六 大 這 個 戰 略 的 這 個 產 業 這 當 中 的 差 別 性 我 們 看 到 了 我 們 的 賴 政 府\n\n16\n00:06:13,467 --> 00:06:27,525\n沒 有 談 到 這 個 整 個 再 生 能 源 跟 綠 能 的 產 業 為 什 麼 沒 有 談 到 ? 難 道 他 對 這 個 再 生 能 源 綠 能 已 經 沒 有 信 心 了 嗎 ? 還 是 不 是 核 心 的 重 要 的 這 個 產 業 還 是 說 已 經 碰 到 瓶 頸 了 ?\n\n17\n00:06:28,430 --> 00:06:54,944\n他 是 已 經 突 破 瓶 頸 了 。 我 舉 個 例 子 一 開 始 我 們 做 那 個 水 下 裝 是 9 個 月 做 一 支 因 為 我 們 的 3 D 的 焊 接 的 精 度 不 足 、 鋼 構 不 足 現 在 都 克 服 了 現 在 一 個 月 可 以 做 到 9 支 所 以 他 已 經 變 成 從 過 去 比 較 艱 困 的 部 分 已 經 克 服 到 那 個 所 以 他 已 經 是 一 個 比 較 可 以 正 式 要 商 轉 的 環 境 了 所 以 他 不 是 一 個 等 於 是 他 不 需 要 再 他 的 輔 導 期 是 已 經 快 結 束 了\n\n18\n00:06:55,629 --> 00:07:13,832\n主 委 本 期 在 這 邊 還 提 醒 您 因 為 這 個 氫 氣 的 發 電 這 個 整 個 技 術 還 沒 有 夠 成 熟 那 我 們 有 需 要 很 多 的 時 間 去 克 服 那 何 時 可 以 正 式 的 這 個 商 轉 也 不 是 說 你 說 的 時 間 它 就 一 定 能 夠 商 轉 都 是 未 定 數 所 以 在 2 0 5 0 年 要 達 到 這 個 近 年 的 排 放 這 個 目 標 這 個 願 景 還 是 我 們 要 多 多 考 慮 是 不 是 能 夠 將 核 能 的 重 新 納 入 考 量\n\n19\n00:07:22,115 --> 00:07:29,491\n這 是 非 常 的 重 要 我 們 也 希 望 你 能 夠 整 合 各 方 的 意 見 你 可 以 給 我 們 的 現 在 的 賴 政 府 賴 總 統 什 麼 建 議 呢\n\n20\n00:07:32,650 --> 00:07:56,300\n其 實 我 給 她 的 建 議 也 是 在 濾 清 因 為 我 們 其 實 我 看 了 很 多 的 p a p e r 過 去 我 們 在 研 究 這 方 面 琢 磨 很 深 因 為 以 前 我 有 一 個 永 續 公 司 大 概 有 8 0 幾 個 員 工 那 全 球 的 報 告 研 究 下 來 連 那 個 空 中 巴 士 都 宣 稱 他 在 2 0 3 5 年 要 做 第 一 台 的 濾 清 的 飛 機 那 歐 洲 現 在 從 垃 圾 車 到 交 通 工 具 都 在 做 實 驗 包 括 渡 輪\n\n21\n00:07:57,300 --> 00:08:22,618\n包 括 德 國 福 斯 特 的 工 業 區 其 實 我 們 去 看 關 系 電 力 的 備 用 電 力 也 都 是 濾 清 那 台 灣 現 在 很 多 科 技 也 開 始 在 推 動 輕 能 源 的 備 用 系 統 就 不 再 是 傳 統 發 電 機 所 以 這 個 動 作 其 實 是 已 經 進 行 式 了 所 以 它 的 成 熟 期 會 越 來 越 貴 是 , 都 是 在 進 行 式 當 中 所 以 你 知 道 嗎 2 0 3 0 年 這 個 貿 易 出 口 就 是 要 零 碳 排 放 的\n\n22\n00:08:23,459 --> 00:08:23,479\n謝 謝 委 員 謝 謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n189\t9722\t接下來我們請呂玉玲委員請做詢答謝謝謝謝主席 請劉主委我們再請主委\n22552\t22572\t委員長\n41321\t41662\t好,謝謝委員。\n67626\t86192\t經濟部長郭志輝特別提到核能是乾淨的能源這就代表著我們的核能是否要除液的問題是非常的重要尤其是也提到了AI產業還有我們的半導體它是極高需要的用電\n87773\t107244\t﹏﹏\n109423\t126302\t是不是?電夠不夠?有沒有缺電?是的,我的確我跟產業我們其實常常密切的在接觸那現在因為整個用電的狀況是比兩年前改善非常多這是事實那為什麼桃園停電這麼多次呢?\n126602\t127922\t主委,您認為有沒有缺點?\n150114\t155796\t主委,我們希望您在產業跟民生用電的角度來講我們的能源政策真的是有調整的空間\n174384\t188242\t接下來我要跟你提的就是說在3月21日的國際能源的會議美國跟大陸跟歐洲各國包括了曾經受到核災的日本都宣誓要為了達到淨零排放這個目標將要擴大\n190285\t190305\t﹚呂玲\n205586\t226844\t非核家園是這個目標是永不放棄的目標那這就代表著河山廠的一號二號機仍然在這個今年跟明年就是要除役了在這種情形之下2050年我們的淨零排放這個路徑這個策略是很難達到的因為再生能源就要達到60%以上了你認為做得到嗎\n231379\t234921\t對他企業在外銷的時候是很有幫助的那他本來就要做備援系統大量的進行就會解決\n260418\t278370\t議員議員\n278450\t278570\t您認為可能嗎?\n308326\t317021\t2035年大量運轉是濾清是完全透過水去電解所以你現在是混合清到了2035年的話是濾清濾清2050年就達到整個是我們純淨的清\n322062\t344011\t對﹖他是感激﹖他就能夠解決完全沒有碳的排放﹖而且他對臺灣的保障更好﹖你有信心﹖因為他原料是水﹖所以他來自水﹖你有信心嗎﹖我有信心了﹖好﹖我們期待你有的信心﹖因為剩下26年的時間2035年就來這個濾清就開始大量的運轉的話﹖他佔比再生能源就要達到60%到70%﹖\n347012\t372867\t這是能源政策是你們公布的2050年的能源政策所以我們希望你都要能夠做到那再來就是說因為我們看到在這一次我們賴政府他的宣言裡面他有講說五大信賴產業五大的信賴產業跟蔡英文之前的六大這個戰略的這個產業這當中的差別性我們看到了我們的賴政府\n373467\t387525\t沒有談到這個整個再生能源跟綠能的產業為什麼沒有談到?難道他對這個再生能源綠能已經沒有信心了嗎?還是不是核心的重要的這個產業還是說已經碰到瓶頸了?\n388430\t414944\t他是已經突破瓶頸了。我舉個例子一開始我們做那個水下裝是9個月做一支因為我們的3D的焊接的精度不足、鋼構不足現在都克服了現在一個月可以做到9支所以他已經變成從過去比較艱困的部分已經克服到那個所以他已經是一個比較可以正式要商轉的環境了所以他不是一個等於是他不需要再他的輔導期是已經快結束了\n415629\t433832\t主委本期在這邊還提醒您因為這個氫氣的發電這個整個技術還沒有夠成熟那我們有需要很多的時間去克服那何時可以正式的這個商轉也不是說你說的時間它就一定能夠商轉都是未定數所以在2050年要達到這個近年的排放這個目標這個願景還是我們要多多考慮是不是能夠將核能的重新納入考量\n442115\t449491\t這是非常的重要我們也希望你能夠整合各方的意見你可以給我們的現在的賴政府賴總統什麼建議呢\n452650\t476300\t其實我給她的建議也是在濾清因為我們其實我看了很多的paper過去我們在研究這方面琢磨很深因為以前我有一個永續公司大概有80幾個員工那全球的報告研究下來連那個空中巴士都宣稱他在2035年要做第一台的濾清的飛機那歐洲現在從垃圾車到交通工具都在做實驗包括渡輪\n477300\t502618\t包括德國福斯特的工業區其實我們去看關系電力的備用電力也都是濾清那台灣現在很多科技也開始在推動輕能源的備用系統就不再是傳統發電機所以這個動作其實是已經進行式了所以它的成熟期會越來越貴是,都是在進行式當中所以你知道嗎2030年這個貿易出口就是要零碳排放的\n503459\t503479\t謝謝委員謝謝\n","txt":"接下來我們請呂玉玲委員請做詢答謝謝謝謝主席 請劉主委我們再請主委\n委員長\n好,謝謝委員。\n經濟部長郭志輝特別提到核能是乾淨的能源這就代表著我們的核能是否要除液的問題是非常的重要尤其是也提到了AI產業還有我們的半導體它是極高需要的用電\n﹏﹏\n是不是?電夠不夠?有沒有缺電?是的,我的確我跟產業我們其實常常密切的在接觸那現在因為整個用電的狀況是比兩年前改善非常多這是事實那為什麼桃園停電這麼多次呢?\n主委,您認為有沒有缺點?\n主委,我們希望您在產業跟民生用電的角度來講我們的能源政策真的是有調整的空間\n接下來我要跟你提的就是說在3月21日的國際能源的會議美國跟大陸跟歐洲各國包括了曾經受到核災的日本都宣誓要為了達到淨零排放這個目標將要擴大\n﹚呂玲\n非核家園是這個目標是永不放棄的目標那這就代表著河山廠的一號二號機仍然在這個今年跟明年就是要除役了在這種情形之下2050年我們的淨零排放這個路徑這個策略是很難達到的因為再生能源就要達到60%以上了你認為做得到嗎\n對他企業在外銷的時候是很有幫助的那他本來就要做備援系統大量的進行就會解決\n議員議員\n您認為可能嗎?\n2035年大量運轉是濾清是完全透過水去電解所以你現在是混合清到了2035年的話是濾清濾清2050年就達到整個是我們純淨的清\n對﹖他是感激﹖他就能夠解決完全沒有碳的排放﹖而且他對臺灣的保障更好﹖你有信心﹖因為他原料是水﹖所以他來自水﹖你有信心嗎﹖我有信心了﹖好﹖我們期待你有的信心﹖因為剩下26年的時間2035年就來這個濾清就開始大量的運轉的話﹖他佔比再生能源就要達到60%到70%﹖\n這是能源政策是你們公布的2050年的能源政策所以我們希望你都要能夠做到那再來就是說因為我們看到在這一次我們賴政府他的宣言裡面他有講說五大信賴產業五大的信賴產業跟蔡英文之前的六大這個戰略的這個產業這當中的差別性我們看到了我們的賴政府\n沒有談到這個整個再生能源跟綠能的產業為什麼沒有談到?難道他對這個再生能源綠能已經沒有信心了嗎?還是不是核心的重要的這個產業還是說已經碰到瓶頸了?\n他是已經突破瓶頸了。我舉個例子一開始我們做那個水下裝是9個月做一支因為我們的3D的焊接的精度不足、鋼構不足現在都克服了現在一個月可以做到9支所以他已經變成從過去比較艱困的部分已經克服到那個所以他已經是一個比較可以正式要商轉的環境了所以他不是一個等於是他不需要再他的輔導期是已經快結束了\n主委本期在這邊還提醒您因為這個氫氣的發電這個整個技術還沒有夠成熟那我們有需要很多的時間去克服那何時可以正式的這個商轉也不是說你說的時間它就一定能夠商轉都是未定數所以在2050年要達到這個近年的排放這個目標這個願景還是我們要多多考慮是不是能夠將核能的重新納入考量\n這是非常的重要我們也希望你能夠整合各方的意見你可以給我們的現在的賴政府賴總統什麼建議呢\n其實我給她的建議也是在濾清因為我們其實我看了很多的paper過去我們在研究這方面琢磨很深因為以前我有一個永續公司大概有80幾個員工那全球的報告研究下來連那個空中巴士都宣稱他在2035年要做第一台的濾清的飛機那歐洲現在從垃圾車到交通工具都在做實驗包括渡輪\n包括德國福斯特的工業區其實我們去看關系電力的備用電力也都是濾清那台灣現在很多科技也開始在推動輕能源的備用系統就不再是傳統發電機所以這個動作其實是已經進行式了所以它的成熟期會越來越貴是,都是在進行式當中所以你知道嗎2030年這個貿易出口就是要零碳排放的\n謝謝委員謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.189 --> 00:09.722\n接 下 來 我 們 請 呂 玉 玲 委 員 請 做 詢 答 謝 謝 謝 謝 主 席 請 劉 主 委 我 們 再 請 主 委\n\n00:22.552 --> 00:22.572\n委 員 長\n\n00:41.321 --> 00:41.662\n好 , 謝 謝 委 員 。\n\n01:07.626 --> 01:26.192\n經 濟 部 長 郭 志 輝 特 別 提 到 核 能 是 乾 淨 的 能 源 這 就 代 表 著 我 們 的 核 能 是 否 要 除 液 的 問 題 是 非 常 的 重 要 尤 其 是 也 提 到 了 A I 產 業 還 有 我 們 的 半 導 體 它 是 極 高 需 要 的 用 電\n\n01:49.423 --> 02:06.302\n是 不 是 ? 電 夠 不 夠 ? 有 沒 有 缺 電 ? 是 的 , 我 的 確 我 跟 產 業 我 們 其 實 常 常 密 切 的 在 接 觸 那 現 在 因 為 整 個 用 電 的 狀 況 是 比 兩 年 前 改 善 非 常 多 這 是 事 實 那 為 什 麼 桃 園 停 電 這 麼 多 次 呢 ?\n\n02:06.602 --> 02:07.922\n主 委 , 您 認 為 有 沒 有 缺 點 ?\n\n02:30.114 --> 02:35.796\n主 委 , 我 們 希 望 您 在 產 業 跟 民 生 用 電 的 角 度 來 講 我 們 的 能 源 政 策 真 的 是 有 調 整 的 空 間\n\n02:54.384 --> 03:08.242\n接 下 來 我 要 跟 你 提 的 就 是 說 在 3 月 2 1 日 的 國 際 能 源 的 會 議 美 國 跟 大 陸 跟 歐 洲 各 國 包 括 了 曾 經 受 到 核 災 的 日 本 都 宣 誓 要 為 了 達 到 淨 零 排 放 這 個 目 標 將 要 擴 大\n\n03:10.285 --> 03:10.305\n﹚ 呂 玲\n\n03:25.586 --> 03:46.844\n非 核 家 園 是 這 個 目 標 是 永 不 放 棄 的 目 標 那 這 就 代 表 著 河 山 廠 的 一 號 二 號 機 仍 然 在 這 個 今 年 跟 明 年 就 是 要 除 役 了 在 這 種 情 形 之 下 2 0 5 0 年 我 們 的 淨 零 排 放 這 個 路 徑 這 個 策 略 是 很 難 達 到 的 因 為 再 生 能 源 就 要 達 到 6 0 % 以 上 了 你 認 為 做 得 到 嗎\n\n03:51.379 --> 03:54.921\n對 他 企 業 在 外 銷 的 時 候 是 很 有 幫 助 的 那 他 本 來 就 要 做 備 援 系 統 大 量 的 進 行 就 會 解 決\n\n04:38.450 --> 04:38.570\n您 認 為 可 能 嗎 ?\n\n05:08.326 --> 05:17.021\n2 0 3 5 年 大 量 運 轉 是 濾 清 是 完 全 透 過 水 去 電 解 所 以 你 現 在 是 混 合 清 到 了 2 0 3 5 年 的 話 是 濾 清 濾 清 2 0 5 0 年 就 達 到 整 個 是 我 們 純 淨 的 清\n\n05:22.062 --> 05:44.011\n對 ﹖ 他 是 感 激 ﹖ 他 就 能 夠 解 決 完 全 沒 有 碳 的 排 放 ﹖ 而 且 他 對 臺 灣 的 保 障 更 好 ﹖ 你 有 信 心 ﹖ 因 為 他 原 料 是 水 ﹖ 所 以 他 來 自 水 ﹖ 你 有 信 心 嗎 ﹖ 我 有 信 心 了 ﹖ 好 ﹖ 我 們 期 待 你 有 的 信 心 ﹖ 因 為 剩 下 2 6 年 的 時 間 2 0 3 5 年 就 來 這 個 濾 清 就 開 始 大 量 的 運 轉 的 話 ﹖ 他 佔 比 再 生 能 源 就 要 達 到 6 0 % 到 7 0 % ﹖\n\n05:47.012 --> 06:12.867\n這 是 能 源 政 策 是 你 們 公 布 的 2 0 5 0 年 的 能 源 政 策 所 以 我 們 希 望 你 都 要 能 夠 做 到 那 再 來 就 是 說 因 為 我 們 看 到 在 這 一 次 我 們 賴 政 府 他 的 宣 言 裡 面 他 有 講 說 五 大 信 賴 產 業 五 大 的 信 賴 產 業 跟 蔡 英 文 之 前 的 六 大 這 個 戰 略 的 這 個 產 業 這 當 中 的 差 別 性 我 們 看 到 了 我 們 的 賴 政 府\n\n06:13.467 --> 06:27.525\n沒 有 談 到 這 個 整 個 再 生 能 源 跟 綠 能 的 產 業 為 什 麼 沒 有 談 到 ? 難 道 他 對 這 個 再 生 能 源 綠 能 已 經 沒 有 信 心 了 嗎 ? 還 是 不 是 核 心 的 重 要 的 這 個 產 業 還 是 說 已 經 碰 到 瓶 頸 了 ?\n\n06:28.430 --> 06:54.944\n他 是 已 經 突 破 瓶 頸 了 。 我 舉 個 例 子 一 開 始 我 們 做 那 個 水 下 裝 是 9 個 月 做 一 支 因 為 我 們 的 3 D 的 焊 接 的 精 度 不 足 、 鋼 構 不 足 現 在 都 克 服 了 現 在 一 個 月 可 以 做 到 9 支 所 以 他 已 經 變 成 從 過 去 比 較 艱 困 的 部 分 已 經 克 服 到 那 個 所 以 他 已 經 是 一 個 比 較 可 以 正 式 要 商 轉 的 環 境 了 所 以 他 不 是 一 個 等 於 是 他 不 需 要 再 他 的 輔 導 期 是 已 經 快 結 束 了\n\n06:55.629 --> 07:13.832\n主 委 本 期 在 這 邊 還 提 醒 您 因 為 這 個 氫 氣 的 發 電 這 個 整 個 技 術 還 沒 有 夠 成 熟 那 我 們 有 需 要 很 多 的 時 間 去 克 服 那 何 時 可 以 正 式 的 這 個 商 轉 也 不 是 說 你 說 的 時 間 它 就 一 定 能 夠 商 轉 都 是 未 定 數 所 以 在 2 0 5 0 年 要 達 到 這 個 近 年 的 排 放 這 個 目 標 這 個 願 景 還 是 我 們 要 多 多 考 慮 是 不 是 能 夠 將 核 能 的 重 新 納 入 考 量\n\n07:22.115 --> 07:29.491\n這 是 非 常 的 重 要 我 們 也 希 望 你 能 夠 整 合 各 方 的 意 見 你 可 以 給 我 們 的 現 在 的 賴 政 府 賴 總 統 什 麼 建 議 呢\n\n07:32.650 --> 07:56.300\n其 實 我 給 她 的 建 議 也 是 在 濾 清 因 為 我 們 其 實 我 看 了 很 多 的 p a p e r 過 去 我 們 在 研 究 這 方 面 琢 磨 很 深 因 為 以 前 我 有 一 個 永 續 公 司 大 概 有 8 0 幾 個 員 工 那 全 球 的 報 告 研 究 下 來 連 那 個 空 中 巴 士 都 宣 稱 他 在 2 0 3 5 年 要 做 第 一 台 的 濾 清 的 飛 機 那 歐 洲 現 在 從 垃 圾 車 到 交 通 工 具 都 在 做 實 驗 包 括 渡 輪\n\n07:57.300 --> 08:22.618\n包 括 德 國 福 斯 特 的 工 業 區 其 實 我 們 去 看 關 系 電 力 的 備 用 電 力 也 都 是 濾 清 那 台 灣 現 在 很 多 科 技 也 開 始 在 推 動 輕 能 源 的 備 用 系 統 就 不 再 是 傳 統 發 電 機 所 以 這 個 動 作 其 實 是 已 經 進 行 式 了 所 以 它 的 成 熟 期 會 越 來 越 貴 是 , 都 是 在 進 行 式 當 中 所 以 你 知 道 嗎 2 0 3 0 年 這 個 貿 易 出 口 就 是 要 零 碳 排 放 的\n\n08:23.459 --> 08:23.479\n謝 謝 委 員 謝 謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.189,"end":9.722,"text":"接下來我們請呂玉玲委員請做詢答謝謝謝謝主席 請劉主委我們再請主委"},{"start":22.552,"end":22.572,"text":"委員長"},{"start":41.321,"end":41.662,"text":"好,謝謝委員。"},{"start":67.626,"end":86.192,"text":"經濟部長郭志輝特別提到核能是乾淨的能源這就代表著我們的核能是否要除液的問題是非常的重要尤其是也提到了AI產業還有我們的半導體它是極高需要的用電"},{"start":87.773,"end":107.244,"text":"﹏﹏"},{"start":109.423,"end":126.302,"text":"是不是?電夠不夠?有沒有缺電?是的,我的確我跟產業我們其實常常密切的在接觸那現在因為整個用電的狀況是比兩年前改善非常多這是事實那為什麼桃園停電這麼多次呢?"},{"start":126.602,"end":127.922,"text":"主委,您認為有沒有缺點?"},{"start":150.114,"end":155.796,"text":"主委,我們希望您在產業跟民生用電的角度來講我們的能源政策真的是有調整的空間"},{"start":174.384,"end":188.242,"text":"接下來我要跟你提的就是說在3月21日的國際能源的會議美國跟大陸跟歐洲各國包括了曾經受到核災的日本都宣誓要為了達到淨零排放這個目標將要擴大"},{"start":190.285,"end":190.305,"text":"﹚呂玲"},{"start":205.586,"end":226.844,"text":"非核家園是這個目標是永不放棄的目標那這就代表著河山廠的一號二號機仍然在這個今年跟明年就是要除役了在這種情形之下2050年我們的淨零排放這個路徑這個策略是很難達到的因為再生能源就要達到60%以上了你認為做得到嗎"},{"start":231.379,"end":234.921,"text":"對他企業在外銷的時候是很有幫助的那他本來就要做備援系統大量的進行就會解決"},{"start":260.418,"end":278.37,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":278.45,"end":278.57,"text":"您認為可能嗎?"},{"start":308.326,"end":317.021,"text":"2035年大量運轉是濾清是完全透過水去電解所以你現在是混合清到了2035年的話是濾清濾清2050年就達到整個是我們純淨的清"},{"start":322.062,"end":344.011,"text":"對﹖他是感激﹖他就能夠解決完全沒有碳的排放﹖而且他對臺灣的保障更好﹖你有信心﹖因為他原料是水﹖所以他來自水﹖你有信心嗎﹖我有信心了﹖好﹖我們期待你有的信心﹖因為剩下26年的時間2035年就來這個濾清就開始大量的運轉的話﹖他佔比再生能源就要達到60%到70%﹖"},{"start":347.012,"end":372.867,"text":"這是能源政策是你們公布的2050年的能源政策所以我們希望你都要能夠做到那再來就是說因為我們看到在這一次我們賴政府他的宣言裡面他有講說五大信賴產業五大的信賴產業跟蔡英文之前的六大這個戰略的這個產業這當中的差別性我們看到了我們的賴政府"},{"start":373.467,"end":387.525,"text":"沒有談到這個整個再生能源跟綠能的產業為什麼沒有談到?難道他對這個再生能源綠能已經沒有信心了嗎?還是不是核心的重要的這個產業還是說已經碰到瓶頸了?"},{"start":388.43,"end":414.944,"text":"他是已經突破瓶頸了。我舉個例子一開始我們做那個水下裝是9個月做一支因為我們的3D的焊接的精度不足、鋼構不足現在都克服了現在一個月可以做到9支所以他已經變成從過去比較艱困的部分已經克服到那個所以他已經是一個比較可以正式要商轉的環境了所以他不是一個等於是他不需要再他的輔導期是已經快結束了"},{"start":415.629,"end":433.832,"text":"主委本期在這邊還提醒您因為這個氫氣的發電這個整個技術還沒有夠成熟那我們有需要很多的時間去克服那何時可以正式的這個商轉也不是說你說的時間它就一定能夠商轉都是未定數所以在2050年要達到這個近年的排放這個目標這個願景還是我們要多多考慮是不是能夠將核能的重新納入考量"},{"start":442.115,"end":449.491,"text":"這是非常的重要我們也希望你能夠整合各方的意見你可以給我們的現在的賴政府賴總統什麼建議呢"},{"start":452.65,"end":476.3,"text":"其實我給她的建議也是在濾清因為我們其實我看了很多的paper過去我們在研究這方面琢磨很深因為以前我有一個永續公司大概有80幾個員工那全球的報告研究下來連那個空中巴士都宣稱他在2035年要做第一台的濾清的飛機那歐洲現在從垃圾車到交通工具都在做實驗包括渡輪"},{"start":477.3,"end":502.618,"text":"包括德國福斯特的工業區其實我們去看關系電力的備用電力也都是濾清那台灣現在很多科技也開始在推動輕能源的備用系統就不再是傳統發電機所以這個動作其實是已經進行式了所以它的成熟期會越來越貴是,都是在進行式當中所以你知道嗎2030年這個貿易出口就是要零碳排放的"},{"start":503.459,"end":503.479,"text":"謝謝委員謝謝"}]}}}}