{"id":153327,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153327","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/bbbc431469b8aeba8472e8b703348b971766e5648a1e6b71beba37a180c9b1cd7a56b3449513e4b65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴瑞隆","委員發言時間":"10:03:31 - 10:13:51","影片長度":"00:10:20","會議時間":"2024-05-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【5月27日、5月29日及5月30日三天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-30","duration":620,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-14"},"end_time":"2024-05-30T10:13:51+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-30T10:03:31+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":199,"blocks":[["賴委員瑞隆：（10時3分）謝謝主席，請劉主委。"],["主席：我們再請劉主委。"],["賴委員瑞隆：主委好。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：委員早。"],["賴委員瑞隆：首先先請教一下，因為立法院職權行使法跟刑法修正通過了，我先問一下，要請主委誠實來回答，如果被立法院調來問的話，包括一些企業或外商會不會擔心一些機密外洩的問題？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這個部分我也有責任要去溝通，之前是有一些人有以電話跟我聯絡，主要是因為媒體的訊息不夠完整，所以大家對於訊息不夠完整的過程中產生了非常多的擔心跟影響。從條文來看的話，它的確會有模糊的空間，我們可能要去多溝通之外，當然如果院這邊有一個施行細則的話，可能就會比較好一點。"],["賴委員瑞隆：它裡面很多都是很模糊的，包括可以被調來、包括所有東西，一旦被調來的話，他要求你提供資料，其實你也很難去界定到底什麼是能提供、什麼是不能提供，但是你不能提供的時候其實就面對到相當的壓力。我問的是，因為你來自產業界，也有在外商公司待過，他們會不會擔心？實話實說即可。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我只問了少數的，有人是主動打電話給我，他是比較擔心啦！但是我個人認為……"],["賴委員瑞隆：他們來如果沒有照實來講的話當然會擔心，包括一些機密外洩，甚至擔心被罰款，對不對？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，因為他們有內部營業秘密的問題，他講了就會被開除。"],["賴委員瑞隆：所以這個會面臨到這樣的問題。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：會。"],["賴委員瑞隆：如果這樣的狀況，會不會導致外商來投資，甚至外商在這邊的時候會產生這樣一個疑慮？也就是說要來投資臺灣，國發會也是推動整個臺灣產業一個重要的部會，如果這樣的狀況下，會不會影響到？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我這邊會主動地去溝通各外商協會，希望化解疑慮。"],["賴委員瑞隆：你怎麼溝通？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我這邊可能會告訴他，如果遇到困難的時候，我們會儘量來幫忙協調。第二個是釐清。"],["賴委員瑞隆：當法律訂得這麼模糊，沒有一個明確概念的時候，任何企業都可能被調來。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：不好意思，我們同仁有提供另外一個條文，涉及營業秘密的時候，他是可以……"],["賴委員瑞隆：那怎麼去做一個界定？我的意思是說，這有很多部分，我希望後續主委還是要審慎來做一個……","我問一下，你剛剛提到的部分，你說其實還是會有些擔憂，擔憂是一定會的，因為裡面這麼多不確定的概念，你說會擔憂，依照刑法的這個部分，如果有國會的多數認為你是虛偽陳述的話，你有可能被處一年以下有期徒刑，你不會擔心嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，我有跟我太太講要有心理準備。"],["賴委員瑞隆：不只你而已，包括你的處長，甚至你的科長、科員都可能被叫上來，立委問的問題，如果認為你是虛偽陳述，你認為你是誠實作答，但他們如果認為你是虛偽陳述的話，你有可能就會被視為是藐視國會。這樣不會讓很多優秀的公務同仁視來立法院為畏途嗎？是不是會讓很多優秀人員擔心呢？臺灣是有一個完整的質詢制度的，我相信99.9%的人，沒有人敢輕易地對立委講的話有太多的挑戰跟質疑，連立委都還可以直接叫官員上來，然後直接叫你下去，立委可以用這樣的方式對待官員，都不會被判所謂的藐視國會罪，至於官員，我認為我看過99.9%的都不會，你為了要去修理少數1、2位政務官，然後把所有的公務員都抓進來，我認為這個是會傷害到整個國家的體制，主委認同這樣的看法嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我有義務去化解我們同仁的疑慮，我們法制室會把整個條文再看得仔細一點，因為之前的訊息比較多是來自媒體，現在通過了，我們內部會有一個……"],["賴委員瑞隆：要保護同仁，讓同仁有信心的在自己的位置上幫助臺灣繼續往前走，同時間也要去跟外界做溝通，有些確實會逾越的部分，將來因為行政院還會再提覆議，包括釋憲也會再提，我們希望這樣的法會重新再去調整，我們希望建立一個長久的、穩定的制度，而不是一個……","我還是要強調，臺灣的立法院是有質詢權的，質詢權其實就對於官員造成相當大的壓力，我不認為立委對官員沒有辦法。我舉個例就好，當年韓國瑜在選市長的時候不斷講說，我選上市長，我一定會查到前朝很多的弊案、幾大弊案，上任擔任一年市長的任內全部查完之後，沒有弊案，沒有任何的弊案，連送檢調都沒有，連送什麼都沒有，這就是用口頭想像的。在權益的部分，我們至少對司法還是要有基本的一個尊重，如果連這個東西都逾越的時候，我認為整個體制會混亂。","因為時間非常有限，我請教一下，非核家園其實是臺灣追求的一個長遠的目標，也是院長再次的提醒，未來我們講RE 100的部分，其實不把核能視為再生能源，核能還有很多問題，包括核廢料的處理，每個縣市沒有人要核廢料，包括臺北市自己都不要核廢料，新北市也不要核廢料，還有核安的部分，包括執照、包括安全問題都要解決，其實核電還有很多程序要去做處理，主委怎麼看？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：媒體的報導有一點不是我的原意，現在我的看法很簡單，我從企業的角度看，企業要的是一個安全、穩定、足夠的電源，目前就台電告訴我的是，核電必須依法準時關掉，所以我們沒有理由去思考這件事，得去思考電夠不夠，目前台電的回復是電是足夠的。我們也請它考慮到AI的變化，它也會放進來，他們現在也修正上調需求，滾動的在調整，所以至少從台電的角度給企業的保證，目前我得到訊息是很清楚的，我們有足夠的電源。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我也講過很多次，燃煤大家不要，因為空污有影響，核電當然有些疑慮，燃氣也持續在增加，高雄最近包括興達、大林都還持續在增加電廠，全臺灣空污最嚴重的地區是高雄，但是高雄為了產業的發展，包括半導體產業鏈進來的時候，我們還持續在增加我們的電力，高雄電力有50是往中送、往北送的，我們還是持續在發展，所以這個都是在整個國家的思考下，綠電也全力在推動，不管是太陽光電、離岸風電、浮式離岸風電，都在想盡各種方法增加電源。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，我們現在也在做碳捕捉，也在做藍綠氫的推動。"],["賴委員瑞隆：所以這些都是未來要發展的一些方向，因為核電還有很多程序必須要處理，包括我剛剛講的核廢料、核安，甚至法令相關的部分都要做處理，包括人民對這一塊也還有很多的疑慮，我是覺得這一塊要妥善地思考跟妥善地溝通，這樣才是一個……","目前電力的部分，即使有一些跳電等等的問題，但是看來都是比較區域性、地方性的問題，並不是整體缺電上的問題，電力也持續穩定地增加當中，我希望這一塊主委還是要持續來盤點，好不好？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：另外我要講的，剛剛也有講到，南北的部分其實有一個AI產業的生態系，包括高雄現在整個在推動5GIoT，包括智慧科技創新園區，AI的聚落也不斷地在往這邊來推動，其實也產生很好的效果，包括很重要的電力部分，高雄持續在增加電力，其實我們有五成的電力是往中、往北送，我們還在蓋新的電廠，就是在支撐半導體產業鏈、支撐AI的產業鏈。我們希望主委持續地支持高雄，不要讓高雄只有重工業，不要讓高雄只有污染性的產業，讓高雄有多元發展的機會，讓南部優秀人才能夠留在南部發展，我認為均衡發展對臺灣是一件很重要的事情，可不可以請主委一樣支持南部的AI生態園區在高雄亞灣持續推動？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是的、是的。"],["賴委員瑞隆：主委支持嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：支持，數發部今天下午會來找我。"],["賴委員瑞隆：AI的部分在高雄已經開始產生聚落，包括亞灣新創園，包括高軟二期等等全部在推動，現在整個都在亞灣快速地來推動，我也希望主委全力來支持AI的產業鏈，讓半導體產業鏈、AI相關的產業鏈全力地在高雄深耕發展，讓南、北……中我也不反對啦，至少在這樣的狀況下，能夠有很好……因為南部其實已經有很好的條件，不管是生活機能、大眾運輸或者人才的部分，其實都具備了，甚至機場、港口等等全部都具備了，電力也都具備了，水的部分，像伏流水、再生水等等都具備了，我也希望高雄的這一塊，不要讓過去常講的南北差距擴大這件事情不斷地在發生，既然執政，就應該去把均衡臺灣、讓南北均衡發展的事情完成，好不好？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是的。"],["賴委員瑞隆：請主委一定要把這個放在心上。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：均衡臺灣，我們一定會試著把北中南都照顧到。"],["賴委員瑞隆：南北一定要均衡來發展，謝謝主委。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是，謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","剛剛主委已經有說了要均衡，所以臺中一定要講到，不要只有南北，北中南大家一起來，才會完整呈現，謝謝。主委可能有很多的政治話術還不是很熟悉，我們最歡喜你來做主委，就是因為你來自產業界，是真正的專業，很多的政治話術點到為止就好，民眾還是希望以民為本，是真的專業，也是你的特長，謝謝。","接下來請鄭天財委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":402,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-14","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","邱議瑩","鄭正鈐","呂玉玲","賴瑞隆","鄭天財Sra 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再要請教一下非核家園其實是臺灣追求的一個長遠的一個目標也是院長再次的提醒那其實在未來我們講的R1100的部分其實也把核能它其實不視為再生能源那所以核能還有很多的包括這個核廢料的處理每個縣市沒有人要核廢料包括臺北市自己都不要核廢料新北市也不要核廢料那包括核安的部分其實有很多的包括執照包括安全的問題都要解決\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 330.567, \"end\": 330.667, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 330.667, \"end\": 330.767, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 330.767, \"end\": 330.887, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 330.887, \"end\": 331.007, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 331.007, \"end\": 331.167, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 331.167, \"end\": 331.347, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 331.347, \"end\": 331.447, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"限\", \"start\": 331.447, \"end\": 331.707, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 331.707, \"end\": 331.827, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 331.827, \"end\": 332.067, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, 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{\"word\": \"送\", \"start\": 431.875, \"end\": 432.115, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 432.115, \"end\": 432.395, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 432.395, \"end\": 432.655, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 432.655, \"end\": 432.836, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 432.836, \"end\": 433.056, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 433.056, \"end\": 433.096, \"score\": 0.429}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"展\", \"start\": 433.096, \"end\": 433.116, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 434.016, \"end\": 449.224, \"text\": \"所以這個都是在整個國家的思考下綠電也全力在推動不管是這個太陽光電、沿岸風電、輻射的都在用想盡用各種的方法來增加更多的電源我們現在也在做碳捕捉也在做藍綠群的推動\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 434.016, \"end\": 434.156, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 434.156, \"end\": 434.656, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 434.656, \"end\": 434.796, \"score\": 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\"end\": 448.924, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"藍\"}, {\"word\": \"綠\"}, {\"word\": \"群\", \"start\": 448.924, \"end\": 449.084, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 449.084, \"end\": 449.204, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"推\", \"start\": 449.204, \"end\": 449.224, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"動\"}]}, {\"start\": 450.713, \"end\": 475.107, \"text\": \"所以這些都是未來要發展的一些方向那因為核電還有很多的程序上的處理包括我剛剛講到的核飛、核安甚至法令相關的部分都要做處理所以我覺得這一塊包括人民對這一塊也還有很多的疑慮我是覺得這一塊要妥善的思考跟妥善的溝通之後我認為這個才是一個那目前的部分電力確實即使有一些跳電等等的一些問題但是看來都是比較\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 450.713, \"end\": 450.893, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 450.893, \"end\": 451.173, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 451.173, \"end\": 451.334, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 451.334, \"end\": 451.494, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 451.494, \"end\": 451.694, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 451.694, \"end\": 452.114, \"score\": 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\"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 586.489, \"end\": 586.509, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 607.639, \"end\": 607.719, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 607.719, \"end\": 607.759, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 607.759, \"end\": 607.779, \"score\": 0.186}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"en\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,089 --> 00:00:08,284\n委 員 請 做 詢 答 。 好 , 謝 謝 主 席 , 請 留 主 委 。 我 們 再 請 留 主 委 。\n\n2\n00:00:14,315 --> 00:00:35,965\n主 委 好 主 委 委 員 長 首 先 先 請 教 一 下 因 為 立 法 院 的 職 員 刑 事 法 跟 刑 法 修 正 通 過 了 那 我 先 問 一 下 這 個 要 請 主 委 誠 實 來 回 答 了 會 不 會 擔 心 一 些 相 關 的 包 括 一 些 企 業 或 外 商 會 不 會 擔 心 一 些 機 密 的 一 些 外 洩 的 問 題 如 果 被 立 法 院 調 來 問 的 話 會 不 會\n\n3\n00:00:39,176 --> 00:01:05,901\n這 個 部 分 是 我 也 有 責 任 要 去 溝 通 那 之 前 是 有 一 些 人 是 有 電 話 跟 我 聯 絡 因 為 主 要 是 媒 體 的 訊 息 不 夠 完 整 所 以 大 家 對 於 這 個 訊 息 不 夠 完 整 的 過 程 中 產 生 了 非 常 多 的 擔 心 跟 這 個 影 響 那 的 確 從 條 文 來 看 的 話 它 的 確 會 有 模 糊 的 空 間 那 我 們 可 能 要 去 多 溝 通 之 外 當 然 如 果 院 這 邊 有 一 個 比 較 實 時 細 則 的 話\n\n4\n00:01:07,501 --> 00:01:27,049\n他 裡 面 很 多 都 是 很 模 糊 的 啦 , 包 括 可 以 被 調 來 , 包 括 所 有 東 西 , 包 括 那 個 , 那 一 旦 被 調 來 的 話 , 其 實 他 要 求 你 提 供 資 料 , 其 實 你 也 很 難 去 界 定 到 底 什 麼 是 能 提 供 , 什 麼 是 不 能 提 供 , 但 是 你 不 能 提 供 的 時 候 , 其 實 就 面 對 到 相 當 的 壓 力 。 我 問 的 是 , 因 為 你 來 自 產 業 界 , 也 有 個 待 在 外 商 公 司 待 過 , 他 們 會 不 會 擔 心 ? 他 們 會 不 會 擔 心 ?\n\n5\n00:01:29,871 --> 00:01:50,925\n實 話 實 說 即 可 我 只 問 了 少 數 的 啦 那 有 人 是 主 動 打 電 話 給 我 他 是 比 較 擔 心 啦 但 是 我 個 人 的 那 我 問 你 一 下 如 果 他 們 那 另 外 是 他 們 來 的 話 會 擔 心 嘛 包 括 一 些 機 密 外 洩 甚 至 擔 心 被 罰 款 嘛 對 不 對 如 果 沒 有 照 實 的 來 講 的 話 對 因 為 他 們 有 內 部 營 業 秘 密 的 問 題 啦 他 講 了 就 會 被 開 除 嘛\n\n6\n00:01:51,505 --> 00:01:51,945\n你 怎 麼 溝 通 ? 你 怎 麼 溝 通 ?\n\n7\n00:02:18,174 --> 00:02:42,368\n我 這 邊 可 能 會 是 告 訴 他 就 是 我 們 如 果 遇 到 的 困 難 的 時 候 我 們 會 盡 量 來 幫 忙 協 調 然 後 第 二 個 釐 清 當 法 律 定 的 這 樣 這 麼 模 糊 而 沒 有 一 個 明 確 的 概 念 的 時 候 任 何 都 可 能 企 業 被 調 來 或 者 是 都 可 能 被 調 來 的 時 候 不 好 意 思 這 個 我 們 同 仁 有 另 外 一 個 條 文 涉 及 營 業 秘 密 的 部 分 他 是 可 以 那 怎 麼 去 做 一 個 界 定 啊\n\n8\n00:02:42,608 --> 00:02:43,469\n對 , 我 有 跟 我 太 太 講 要 有 心 理 準 備\n\n9\n00:03:11,790 --> 00:03:26,509\n所 以 我 說 那 不 只 你 而 已 欸 包 括 你 的 處 長 甚 至 你 的 科 長 科 員 都 可 能 被 叫 上 來 他 們 問 的 立 委 問 的 問 題 如 果 認 為 你 是 虛 偽 陳 述 你 認 為 你 是 誠 實 作 答 你 如 果 認 為 你 是 虛 偽 陳 述 的 話 你 有 可 能 就 被 視 為 是 藐 視 國 會 欸\n\n10\n00:03:28,656 --> 00:03:46,510\n這 樣 不 會 產 生 讓 很 多 優 秀 的 公 務 同 仁 在 來 到 立 法 院 是 立 法 院 委 員 會 徒 嗎 ? 讓 很 多 優 秀 人 員 是 不 是 會 擔 心 呢 ? 我 說 這 樣 的 法 台 灣 是 有 一 個 完 整 的 質 詢 制 度 的 我 相 信 9 9 . 9 % 的 人 沒 有 人 敢 輕 易 的 對 立 委 講 的 話 有 太 多 的 這 個 挑 戰 跟 質 疑 的\n\n11\n00:03:47,731 --> 00:04:10,371\n連 立 委 都 還 可 以 叫 官 員 直 接 叫 他 說 叫 你 上 來 然 後 我 的 就 是 直 接 叫 你 你 下 去 這 樣 子 立 委 可 以 用 這 樣 的 方 式 對 待 官 員 的 都 不 會 被 判 所 謂 的 藐 視 國 會 罪 那 官 員 我 認 為 我 看 過 9 9 . 9 % 的 都 不 會 你 為 了 要 去 修 理 少 數 一 兩 位 政 務 官 然 後 把 所 有 的 公 務 員 都 抓 進 來 我 認 為 這 個 是 會 傷 害 到 整 個 國 家 的 體 制 的 主 委 認 同 這 樣 的 看 法 嗎\n\n12\n00:04:12,822 --> 00:04:38,736\n我 有 義 務 去 化 解 我 們 同 仁 的 疑 慮 啦 那 我 們 會 法 治 制 我 們 會 把 整 個 條 文 再 看 得 仔 細 一 點 因 為 之 前 比 較 來 自 媒 體 現 在 通 過 了 我 們 會 內 部 會 有 一 個 要 不 斷 的 去 保 護 同 仁 讓 同 仁 有 信 心 的 能 夠 在 自 己 的 公 職 上 來 幫 助 台 灣 繼 續 往 前 走 同 時 間 也 要 去 跟 外 界 去 做 溝 通 啦 有 些 確 實 會 愉 悅 到 的 部 分 將 來 因 為 行 政 委 員 會 再 提\n\n13\n00:04:39,376 --> 00:04:40,578\n賴 瑞 隆 賴 瑞 隆 賴 瑞 隆 賴 瑞 隆 賴 瑞 隆\n\n14\n00:04:58,979 --> 00:05:15,181\n我 舉 個 例 就 好 啦 當 年 韓 國 瑜 在 選 市 長 的 時 候 不 斷 講 說 我 選 上 市 長 我 一 定 會 查 到 很 多 的 弊 案 幾 大 弊 案 幾 大 弊 案 上 任 擔 任 一 年 市 長 的 任 內 查 完 全 部 查 完 之 後 沒 有 弊 案 沒 有 任 何 的 弊 案 連 送 檢 調 都 沒 有 連 送 什 麼 都 沒 有\n\n15\n00:05:16,258 --> 00:05:28,463\n這 就 是 用 口 頭 想 像 的 那 個 你 還 是 對 司 法 的 部 分 還 是 至 少 他 的 基 本 的 一 個 權 益 的 部 分 我 們 至 少 對 司 法 還 是 要 基 本 的 一 個 尊 重 如 果 連 這 個 東 西 能 夠 去 逾 越 的 時 候 我 認 為 整 個 體 制 會 整 個 混 亂 掉\n\n16\n00:05:30,567 --> 00:05:58,895\n我 回 答 因 為 時 間 非 常 有 限 再 要 請 教 一 下 非 核 家 園 其 實 是 臺 灣 追 求 的 一 個 長 遠 的 一 個 目 標 也 是 院 長 再 次 的 提 醒 那 其 實 在 未 來 我 們 講 的 R 1 1 0 0 的 部 分 其 實 也 把 核 能 它 其 實 不 視 為 再 生 能 源 那 所 以 核 能 還 有 很 多 的 包 括 這 個 核 廢 料 的 處 理 每 個 縣 市 沒 有 人 要 核 廢 料 包 括 臺 北 市 自 己 都 不 要 核 廢 料 新 北 市 也 不 要 核 廢 料 那 包 括 核 安 的 部 分 其 實 有 很 多 的 包 括 執 照 包 括 安 全 的 問 題 都 要 解 決\n\n17\n00:06:00,035 --> 00:06:16,469\n主 委 怎 麼 看 ? 其 實 核 電 還 有 很 多 程 序 要 去 做 處 理 , 主 委 怎 麼 看 ? 呃 , 核 電 那 個 媒 體 那 個 是 有 一 點 不 是 我 的 原 意 喔 那 我 現 在 我 的 看 法 是 很 簡 單 的 喔 , 其 實 我 從 企 業 的 角 度 看 那 企 業 要 的 是 一 個 安 全 穩 定 足 夠 的 電 源\n\n18\n00:06:17,470 --> 00:06:30,787\n目 前 臺 電 告 訴 我 的 是 核 電 必 須 依 法 準 時 關 掉 , 所 以 我 們 沒 有 理 由 去 思 考 這 件 事 , 得 去 思 考 電 夠 不 夠 , 目 前 臺 電 的 回 復 是 電 足 夠 的 。\n\n19\n00:06:32,529 --> 00:06:47,245\n那 我 們 也 請 他 考 慮 到 A I 的 變 化 他 也 會 放 進 來 然 後 呢 他 們 現 在 也 修 正 上 調 需 求 嘛 那 滾 動 的 在 調 整 所 以 至 少 從 台 電 的 角 度 給 企 業 的 保 證 是 目 前 我 得 到 訊 息 是 很 清 楚 的 我 們 有 足 夠 的 電 源\n\n20\n00:06:47,625 --> 00:07:13,116\n台 灣 最 近 因 為 我 也 講 過 很 多 次 燃 煤 大 家 不 要 嘛 核 電 當 然 有 一 些 疑 慮 上 面 燃 煤 大 家 不 要 因 為 對 空 污 影 響 嘛 那 燃 氣 也 持 續 在 增 加 高 雄 最 近 包 括 興 達 這 個 包 括 大 林 都 還 持 續 在 增 加 電 廠 全 台 灣 空 污 最 嚴 重 的 地 區 是 高 雄 但 是 高 雄 為 了 產 業 的 發 展 包 括 半 導 體 產 業 鏈 進 來 的 時 候 我 們 還 持 續 在 增 加 我 們 的 電 力 高 雄 的 電 力 有 5 0 是 往 中 送 往 北 送 的 我 們 還 是 持 續 在 發 展\n\n21\n00:07:14,016 --> 00:07:29,224\n所 以 這 個 都 是 在 整 個 國 家 的 思 考 下 綠 電 也 全 力 在 推 動 不 管 是 這 個 太 陽 光 電 、 沿 岸 風 電 、 輻 射 的 都 在 用 想 盡 用 各 種 的 方 法 來 增 加 更 多 的 電 源 我 們 現 在 也 在 做 碳 捕 捉 也 在 做 藍 綠 群 的 推 動\n\n22\n00:07:30,713 --> 00:07:55,107\n所 以 這 些 都 是 未 來 要 發 展 的 一 些 方 向 那 因 為 核 電 還 有 很 多 的 程 序 上 的 處 理 包 括 我 剛 剛 講 到 的 核 飛 、 核 安 甚 至 法 令 相 關 的 部 分 都 要 做 處 理 所 以 我 覺 得 這 一 塊 包 括 人 民 對 這 一 塊 也 還 有 很 多 的 疑 慮 我 是 覺 得 這 一 塊 要 妥 善 的 思 考 跟 妥 善 的 溝 通 之 後 我 認 為 這 個 才 是 一 個 那 目 前 的 部 分 電 力 確 實 即 使 有 一 些 跳 電 等 等 的 一 些 問 題 但 是 看 來 都 是 比 較\n\n23\n00:07:55,868 --> 00:07:56,168\n是 是\n\n24\n00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:28,179\n另 外 我 要 講 的 , 剛 剛 講 到 了 南 北 的 部 分 其 實 有 一 個 A I 產 業 的 生 態 系 包 括 高 雄 現 在 整 個 在 推 動 5 G I o T 包 括 智 慧 科 技 創 新 園 區 A I 的 聚 落 其 實 也 不 斷 地 在 往 這 邊 來 推 動 其 實 也 產 生 很 好 的 一 些 效 果\n\n25\n00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:48,182\n包 括 很 重 要 的 電 力 的 部 分 , 高 雄 持 續 在 增 加 電 力 , 即 使 我 們 有 5 成 的 電 力 是 往 中 往 北 送 , 我 們 還 在 蓋 新 的 電 廠 就 是 在 支 撐 這 些 半 導 體 產 業 鏈 , 支 撐 這 些 A I 的 產 業 鏈 我 們 希 望 主 委 持 續 的 支 持 高 雄 , 不 要 讓 高 雄 只 有 重 工 業 , 不 要 讓 高 雄 只 有\n\n26\n00:08:48,762 --> 00:08:49,583\n是 的 是 的\n\n27\n00:09:09,639 --> 00:09:27,144\n主 委 支 持 嗎 ? 支 持 啦 , 速 發 部 明 天 今 天 下 午 會 來 找 我 A I 的 部 分 在 高 雄 已 經 開 始 產 生 聚 落 了 包 括 亞 灣 新 創 園 包 括 高 覽 二 期 等 等 全 部 在 推 動 了 所 以 整 個 包 括 現 在 的 整 個 都 在 亞 灣 快 速 的 來 推 動 我 也 希 望\n\n28\n00:09:27,924 --> 00:09:46,509\n主 委 , 全 力 來 支 持 A I 的 整 個 產 業 鏈 , 半 導 體 產 業 鏈 、 A I 相 關 的 產 業 鏈 , 全 力 的 在 高 雄 來 深 耕 發 展 。 讓 南 北 , 中 委 不 反 對 的 , 至 少 在 這 樣 的 狀 況 下 的 時 候 能 夠 有 很 好 , 因 為 南 部 其 實 已 經 有 很 好 的 一 些 , 不 管 是 生 活 機 能 、 大 眾 運 輸 或 者 人 才 的 部 分 其 實 都 具 備 了 。\n\n29\n00:10:07,639 --> 00:10:07,779\n謝 謝 主 委 謝 謝 委 員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t8284\t委員請做詢答。好,謝謝主席,請留主委。我們再請留主委。\n14315\t35965\t主委好 主委委員長首先先請教一下 因為立法院的職員刑事法跟刑法修正通過了那我先問一下 這個要請主委誠實來回答了會不會擔心一些相關的包括一些企業或外商會不會擔心一些機密的一些外洩的問題 如果被立法院調來問的話 會不會\n39176\t65901\t這個部分是我也有責任要去溝通那之前是有一些人是有電話跟我聯絡因為主要是媒體的訊息不夠完整所以大家對於這個訊息不夠完整的過程中產生了非常多的擔心跟這個影響那的確從條文來看的話它的確會有模糊的空間那我們可能要去多溝通之外當然如果院這邊有一個比較實時細則的話\n67501\t87049\t他裡面很多都是很模糊的啦,包括可以被調來,包括所有東西,包括那個,那一旦被調來的話,其實他要求你提供資料,其實你也很難去界定到底什麼是能提供,什麼是不能提供,但是你不能提供的時候,其實就面對到相當的壓力。我問的是,因為你來自產業界,也有個待在外商公司待過,他們會不會擔心?他們會不會擔心?\n89871\t110925\t實話實說即可我只問了少數的啦 那有人是主動打電話給我 他是比較擔心啦 但是我個人的那我問你一下 如果他們 那另外是他們來的話 會擔心嘛 包括一些機密外洩甚至擔心被罰款嘛 對不對 如果沒有照實的來講的話對 因為他們有內部營業秘密的問題啦 他講了就會被開除嘛\n111505\t111945\t你怎麼溝通?你怎麼溝通?\n138174\t162368\t我這邊可能會是告訴他就是我們如果遇到的困難的時候我們會盡量來幫忙協調然後第二個釐清當法律定的這樣這麼模糊而沒有一個明確的概念的時候任何都可能企業被調來或者是都可能被調來的時候不好意思這個我們同仁有另外一個條文涉及營業秘密的部分他是可以那怎麼去做一個界定啊\n162608\t163469\t對,我有跟我太太講要有心理準備\n191790\t206509\t所以我說那不只你而已欸包括你的處長甚至你的科長科員都可能被叫上來他們問的立委問的問題如果認為你是虛偽陳述你認為你是誠實作答你如果認為你是虛偽陳述的話你有可能就被視為是藐視國會欸\n208656\t226510\t這樣不會產生讓很多優秀的公務同仁在來到立法院是立法院委員會徒嗎?讓很多優秀人員是不是會擔心呢?我說這樣的法台灣是有一個完整的質詢制度的我相信99.9%的人沒有人敢輕易的對立委講的話有太多的這個挑戰跟質疑的\n227731\t250371\t連立委都還可以叫官員直接叫他說叫你上來然後我的就是直接叫你你下去這樣子立委可以用這樣的方式對待官員的都不會被判所謂的藐視國會罪那官員我認為我看過99.9%的都不會你為了要去修理少數一兩位政務官然後把所有的公務員都抓進來我認為這個是會傷害到整個國家的體制的主委認同這樣的看法嗎\n252822\t278736\t我有義務去化解我們同仁的疑慮啦那我們會法治制我們會把整個條文再看得仔細一點因為之前比較來自媒體現在通過了我們會內部會有一個要不斷的去保護同仁讓同仁有信心的能夠在自己的公職上來幫助台灣繼續往前走同時間也要去跟外界去做溝通啦有些確實會愉悅到的部分將來因為行政委員會再提\n279376\t280578\t賴瑞隆 賴瑞隆 賴瑞隆 賴瑞隆 賴瑞隆\n298979\t315181\t我舉個例就好啦當年韓國瑜在選市長的時候不斷講說我選上市長我一定會查到很多的弊案幾大弊案幾大弊案上任擔任一年市長的任內查完全部查完之後沒有弊案沒有任何的弊案連送檢調都沒有連送什麼都沒有\n316258\t328463\t這就是用口頭想像的那個你還是對司法的部分還是至少他的基本的一個權益的部分我們至少對司法還是要基本的一個尊重如果連這個東西能夠去逾越的時候我認為整個體制會整個混亂掉\n330567\t358895\t我回答因為時間非常有限 再要請教一下非核家園其實是臺灣追求的一個長遠的一個目標也是院長再次的提醒那其實在未來我們講的R1100的部分其實也把核能它其實不視為再生能源那所以核能還有很多的包括這個核廢料的處理每個縣市沒有人要核廢料包括臺北市自己都不要核廢料新北市也不要核廢料那包括核安的部分其實有很多的包括執照包括安全的問題都要解決\n360035\t376469\t主委怎麼看?其實核電還有很多程序要去做處理,主委怎麼看?呃,核電那個媒體那個是有一點不是我的原意喔那我現在我的看法是很簡單的喔,其實我從企業的角度看那企業要的是一個安全穩定足夠的電源\n377470\t390787\t目前臺電告訴我的是核電必須依法準時關掉,所以我們沒有理由去思考這件事,得去思考電夠不夠,目前臺電的回復是電足夠的。\n392529\t407245\t那我們也請他考慮到AI的變化他也會放進來然後呢他們現在也修正上調需求嘛那滾動的在調整所以至少從台電的角度給企業的保證是目前我得到訊息是很清楚的我們有足夠的電源\n407625\t433116\t台灣最近因為我也講過很多次燃煤大家不要嘛 核電當然有一些疑慮上面燃煤大家不要因為對空污影響嘛 那燃氣也持續在增加高雄最近包括興達 這個包括大林都還持續在增加電廠全台灣空污最嚴重的地區是高雄 但是高雄為了產業的發展包括半導體產業鏈進來的時候 我們還持續在增加我們的電力高雄的電力有50是往中送往北送的 我們還是持續在發展\n434016\t449224\t所以這個都是在整個國家的思考下綠電也全力在推動不管是這個太陽光電、沿岸風電、輻射的都在用想盡用各種的方法來增加更多的電源我們現在也在做碳捕捉也在做藍綠群的推動\n450713\t475107\t所以這些都是未來要發展的一些方向那因為核電還有很多的程序上的處理包括我剛剛講到的核飛、核安甚至法令相關的部分都要做處理所以我覺得這一塊包括人民對這一塊也還有很多的疑慮我是覺得這一塊要妥善的思考跟妥善的溝通之後我認為這個才是一個那目前的部分電力確實即使有一些跳電等等的一些問題但是看來都是比較\n475868\t476168\t是是\n488120\t508179\t另外我要講的,剛剛講到了南北的部分其實有一個AI產業的生態系包括高雄現在整個在推動5G IoT包括智慧科技創新園區AI的聚落其實也不斷地在往這邊來推動其實也產生很好的一些效果\n509640\t528182\t包括很重要的電力的部分,高雄持續在增加電力,即使我們有5成的電力是往中往北送,我們還在蓋新的電廠就是在支撐這些半導體產業鏈,支撐這些AI的產業鏈我們希望主委持續的支持高雄,不要讓高雄只有重工業,不要讓高雄只有\n528762\t529583\t是的 是的\n549639\t567144\t主委支持嗎?支持啦,速發部明天今天下午會來找我AI的部分在高雄已經開始產生聚落了包括亞灣新創園包括高覽二期等等全部在推動了所以整個包括現在的整個都在亞灣快速的來推動我也希望\n567924\t586509\t主委,全力來支持AI的整個產業鏈,半導體產業鏈、AI相關的產業鏈,全力的在高雄來深耕發展。讓南北,中委不反對的,至少在這樣的狀況下的時候能夠有很好,因為南部其實已經有很好的一些,不管是生活機能、大眾運輸或者人才的部分其實都具備了。\n586869\t606698\t⋯⋯\n607639\t607779\t謝謝主委謝謝委員\n","txt":"委員請做詢答。好,謝謝主席,請留主委。我們再請留主委。\n主委好 主委委員長首先先請教一下 因為立法院的職員刑事法跟刑法修正通過了那我先問一下 這個要請主委誠實來回答了會不會擔心一些相關的包括一些企業或外商會不會擔心一些機密的一些外洩的問題 如果被立法院調來問的話 會不會\n這個部分是我也有責任要去溝通那之前是有一些人是有電話跟我聯絡因為主要是媒體的訊息不夠完整所以大家對於這個訊息不夠完整的過程中產生了非常多的擔心跟這個影響那的確從條文來看的話它的確會有模糊的空間那我們可能要去多溝通之外當然如果院這邊有一個比較實時細則的話\n他裡面很多都是很模糊的啦,包括可以被調來,包括所有東西,包括那個,那一旦被調來的話,其實他要求你提供資料,其實你也很難去界定到底什麼是能提供,什麼是不能提供,但是你不能提供的時候,其實就面對到相當的壓力。我問的是,因為你來自產業界,也有個待在外商公司待過,他們會不會擔心?他們會不會擔心?\n實話實說即可我只問了少數的啦 那有人是主動打電話給我 他是比較擔心啦 但是我個人的那我問你一下 如果他們 那另外是他們來的話 會擔心嘛 包括一些機密外洩甚至擔心被罰款嘛 對不對 如果沒有照實的來講的話對 因為他們有內部營業秘密的問題啦 他講了就會被開除嘛\n你怎麼溝通?你怎麼溝通?\n我這邊可能會是告訴他就是我們如果遇到的困難的時候我們會盡量來幫忙協調然後第二個釐清當法律定的這樣這麼模糊而沒有一個明確的概念的時候任何都可能企業被調來或者是都可能被調來的時候不好意思這個我們同仁有另外一個條文涉及營業秘密的部分他是可以那怎麼去做一個界定啊\n對,我有跟我太太講要有心理準備\n所以我說那不只你而已欸包括你的處長甚至你的科長科員都可能被叫上來他們問的立委問的問題如果認為你是虛偽陳述你認為你是誠實作答你如果認為你是虛偽陳述的話你有可能就被視為是藐視國會欸\n這樣不會產生讓很多優秀的公務同仁在來到立法院是立法院委員會徒嗎?讓很多優秀人員是不是會擔心呢?我說這樣的法台灣是有一個完整的質詢制度的我相信99.9%的人沒有人敢輕易的對立委講的話有太多的這個挑戰跟質疑的\n連立委都還可以叫官員直接叫他說叫你上來然後我的就是直接叫你你下去這樣子立委可以用這樣的方式對待官員的都不會被判所謂的藐視國會罪那官員我認為我看過99.9%的都不會你為了要去修理少數一兩位政務官然後把所有的公務員都抓進來我認為這個是會傷害到整個國家的體制的主委認同這樣的看法嗎\n我有義務去化解我們同仁的疑慮啦那我們會法治制我們會把整個條文再看得仔細一點因為之前比較來自媒體現在通過了我們會內部會有一個要不斷的去保護同仁讓同仁有信心的能夠在自己的公職上來幫助台灣繼續往前走同時間也要去跟外界去做溝通啦有些確實會愉悅到的部分將來因為行政委員會再提\n賴瑞隆 賴瑞隆 賴瑞隆 賴瑞隆 賴瑞隆\n我舉個例就好啦當年韓國瑜在選市長的時候不斷講說我選上市長我一定會查到很多的弊案幾大弊案幾大弊案上任擔任一年市長的任內查完全部查完之後沒有弊案沒有任何的弊案連送檢調都沒有連送什麼都沒有\n這就是用口頭想像的那個你還是對司法的部分還是至少他的基本的一個權益的部分我們至少對司法還是要基本的一個尊重如果連這個東西能夠去逾越的時候我認為整個體制會整個混亂掉\n我回答因為時間非常有限 再要請教一下非核家園其實是臺灣追求的一個長遠的一個目標也是院長再次的提醒那其實在未來我們講的R1100的部分其實也把核能它其實不視為再生能源那所以核能還有很多的包括這個核廢料的處理每個縣市沒有人要核廢料包括臺北市自己都不要核廢料新北市也不要核廢料那包括核安的部分其實有很多的包括執照包括安全的問題都要解決\n主委怎麼看?其實核電還有很多程序要去做處理,主委怎麼看?呃,核電那個媒體那個是有一點不是我的原意喔那我現在我的看法是很簡單的喔,其實我從企業的角度看那企業要的是一個安全穩定足夠的電源\n目前臺電告訴我的是核電必須依法準時關掉,所以我們沒有理由去思考這件事,得去思考電夠不夠,目前臺電的回復是電足夠的。\n那我們也請他考慮到AI的變化他也會放進來然後呢他們現在也修正上調需求嘛那滾動的在調整所以至少從台電的角度給企業的保證是目前我得到訊息是很清楚的我們有足夠的電源\n台灣最近因為我也講過很多次燃煤大家不要嘛 核電當然有一些疑慮上面燃煤大家不要因為對空污影響嘛 那燃氣也持續在增加高雄最近包括興達 這個包括大林都還持續在增加電廠全台灣空污最嚴重的地區是高雄 但是高雄為了產業的發展包括半導體產業鏈進來的時候 我們還持續在增加我們的電力高雄的電力有50是往中送往北送的 我們還是持續在發展\n所以這個都是在整個國家的思考下綠電也全力在推動不管是這個太陽光電、沿岸風電、輻射的都在用想盡用各種的方法來增加更多的電源我們現在也在做碳捕捉也在做藍綠群的推動\n所以這些都是未來要發展的一些方向那因為核電還有很多的程序上的處理包括我剛剛講到的核飛、核安甚至法令相關的部分都要做處理所以我覺得這一塊包括人民對這一塊也還有很多的疑慮我是覺得這一塊要妥善的思考跟妥善的溝通之後我認為這個才是一個那目前的部分電力確實即使有一些跳電等等的一些問題但是看來都是比較\n是是\n另外我要講的,剛剛講到了南北的部分其實有一個AI產業的生態系包括高雄現在整個在推動5G IoT包括智慧科技創新園區AI的聚落其實也不斷地在往這邊來推動其實也產生很好的一些效果\n包括很重要的電力的部分,高雄持續在增加電力,即使我們有5成的電力是往中往北送,我們還在蓋新的電廠就是在支撐這些半導體產業鏈,支撐這些AI的產業鏈我們希望主委持續的支持高雄,不要讓高雄只有重工業,不要讓高雄只有\n是的 是的\n主委支持嗎?支持啦,速發部明天今天下午會來找我AI的部分在高雄已經開始產生聚落了包括亞灣新創園包括高覽二期等等全部在推動了所以整個包括現在的整個都在亞灣快速的來推動我也希望\n主委,全力來支持AI的整個產業鏈,半導體產業鏈、AI相關的產業鏈,全力的在高雄來深耕發展。讓南北,中委不反對的,至少在這樣的狀況下的時候能夠有很好,因為南部其實已經有很好的一些,不管是生活機能、大眾運輸或者人才的部分其實都具備了。\n⋯⋯\n謝謝主委謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:08.284\n委 員 請 做 詢 答 。 好 , 謝 謝 主 席 , 請 留 主 委 。 我 們 再 請 留 主 委 。\n\n00:14.315 --> 00:35.965\n主 委 好 主 委 委 員 長 首 先 先 請 教 一 下 因 為 立 法 院 的 職 員 刑 事 法 跟 刑 法 修 正 通 過 了 那 我 先 問 一 下 這 個 要 請 主 委 誠 實 來 回 答 了 會 不 會 擔 心 一 些 相 關 的 包 括 一 些 企 業 或 外 商 會 不 會 擔 心 一 些 機 密 的 一 些 外 洩 的 問 題 如 果 被 立 法 院 調 來 問 的 話 會 不 會\n\n00:39.176 --> 01:05.901\n這 個 部 分 是 我 也 有 責 任 要 去 溝 通 那 之 前 是 有 一 些 人 是 有 電 話 跟 我 聯 絡 因 為 主 要 是 媒 體 的 訊 息 不 夠 完 整 所 以 大 家 對 於 這 個 訊 息 不 夠 完 整 的 過 程 中 產 生 了 非 常 多 的 擔 心 跟 這 個 影 響 那 的 確 從 條 文 來 看 的 話 它 的 確 會 有 模 糊 的 空 間 那 我 們 可 能 要 去 多 溝 通 之 外 當 然 如 果 院 這 邊 有 一 個 比 較 實 時 細 則 的 話\n\n01:07.501 --> 01:27.049\n他 裡 面 很 多 都 是 很 模 糊 的 啦 , 包 括 可 以 被 調 來 , 包 括 所 有 東 西 , 包 括 那 個 , 那 一 旦 被 調 來 的 話 , 其 實 他 要 求 你 提 供 資 料 , 其 實 你 也 很 難 去 界 定 到 底 什 麼 是 能 提 供 , 什 麼 是 不 能 提 供 , 但 是 你 不 能 提 供 的 時 候 , 其 實 就 面 對 到 相 當 的 壓 力 。 我 問 的 是 , 因 為 你 來 自 產 業 界 , 也 有 個 待 在 外 商 公 司 待 過 , 他 們 會 不 會 擔 心 ? 他 們 會 不 會 擔 心 ?\n\n01:29.871 --> 01:50.925\n實 話 實 說 即 可 我 只 問 了 少 數 的 啦 那 有 人 是 主 動 打 電 話 給 我 他 是 比 較 擔 心 啦 但 是 我 個 人 的 那 我 問 你 一 下 如 果 他 們 那 另 外 是 他 們 來 的 話 會 擔 心 嘛 包 括 一 些 機 密 外 洩 甚 至 擔 心 被 罰 款 嘛 對 不 對 如 果 沒 有 照 實 的 來 講 的 話 對 因 為 他 們 有 內 部 營 業 秘 密 的 問 題 啦 他 講 了 就 會 被 開 除 嘛\n\n01:51.505 --> 01:51.945\n你 怎 麼 溝 通 ? 你 怎 麼 溝 通 ?\n\n02:18.174 --> 02:42.368\n我 這 邊 可 能 會 是 告 訴 他 就 是 我 們 如 果 遇 到 的 困 難 的 時 候 我 們 會 盡 量 來 幫 忙 協 調 然 後 第 二 個 釐 清 當 法 律 定 的 這 樣 這 麼 模 糊 而 沒 有 一 個 明 確 的 概 念 的 時 候 任 何 都 可 能 企 業 被 調 來 或 者 是 都 可 能 被 調 來 的 時 候 不 好 意 思 這 個 我 們 同 仁 有 另 外 一 個 條 文 涉 及 營 業 秘 密 的 部 分 他 是 可 以 那 怎 麼 去 做 一 個 界 定 啊\n\n02:42.608 --> 02:43.469\n對 , 我 有 跟 我 太 太 講 要 有 心 理 準 備\n\n03:11.790 --> 03:26.509\n所 以 我 說 那 不 只 你 而 已 欸 包 括 你 的 處 長 甚 至 你 的 科 長 科 員 都 可 能 被 叫 上 來 他 們 問 的 立 委 問 的 問 題 如 果 認 為 你 是 虛 偽 陳 述 你 認 為 你 是 誠 實 作 答 你 如 果 認 為 你 是 虛 偽 陳 述 的 話 你 有 可 能 就 被 視 為 是 藐 視 國 會 欸\n\n03:28.656 --> 03:46.510\n這 樣 不 會 產 生 讓 很 多 優 秀 的 公 務 同 仁 在 來 到 立 法 院 是 立 法 院 委 員 會 徒 嗎 ? 讓 很 多 優 秀 人 員 是 不 是 會 擔 心 呢 ? 我 說 這 樣 的 法 台 灣 是 有 一 個 完 整 的 質 詢 制 度 的 我 相 信 9 9 . 9 % 的 人 沒 有 人 敢 輕 易 的 對 立 委 講 的 話 有 太 多 的 這 個 挑 戰 跟 質 疑 的\n\n03:47.731 --> 04:10.371\n連 立 委 都 還 可 以 叫 官 員 直 接 叫 他 說 叫 你 上 來 然 後 我 的 就 是 直 接 叫 你 你 下 去 這 樣 子 立 委 可 以 用 這 樣 的 方 式 對 待 官 員 的 都 不 會 被 判 所 謂 的 藐 視 國 會 罪 那 官 員 我 認 為 我 看 過 9 9 . 9 % 的 都 不 會 你 為 了 要 去 修 理 少 數 一 兩 位 政 務 官 然 後 把 所 有 的 公 務 員 都 抓 進 來 我 認 為 這 個 是 會 傷 害 到 整 個 國 家 的 體 制 的 主 委 認 同 這 樣 的 看 法 嗎\n\n04:12.822 --> 04:38.736\n我 有 義 務 去 化 解 我 們 同 仁 的 疑 慮 啦 那 我 們 會 法 治 制 我 們 會 把 整 個 條 文 再 看 得 仔 細 一 點 因 為 之 前 比 較 來 自 媒 體 現 在 通 過 了 我 們 會 內 部 會 有 一 個 要 不 斷 的 去 保 護 同 仁 讓 同 仁 有 信 心 的 能 夠 在 自 己 的 公 職 上 來 幫 助 台 灣 繼 續 往 前 走 同 時 間 也 要 去 跟 外 界 去 做 溝 通 啦 有 些 確 實 會 愉 悅 到 的 部 分 將 來 因 為 行 政 委 員 會 再 提\n\n04:39.376 --> 04:40.578\n賴 瑞 隆 賴 瑞 隆 賴 瑞 隆 賴 瑞 隆 賴 瑞 隆\n\n04:58.979 --> 05:15.181\n我 舉 個 例 就 好 啦 當 年 韓 國 瑜 在 選 市 長 的 時 候 不 斷 講 說 我 選 上 市 長 我 一 定 會 查 到 很 多 的 弊 案 幾 大 弊 案 幾 大 弊 案 上 任 擔 任 一 年 市 長 的 任 內 查 完 全 部 查 完 之 後 沒 有 弊 案 沒 有 任 何 的 弊 案 連 送 檢 調 都 沒 有 連 送 什 麼 都 沒 有\n\n05:16.258 --> 05:28.463\n這 就 是 用 口 頭 想 像 的 那 個 你 還 是 對 司 法 的 部 分 還 是 至 少 他 的 基 本 的 一 個 權 益 的 部 分 我 們 至 少 對 司 法 還 是 要 基 本 的 一 個 尊 重 如 果 連 這 個 東 西 能 夠 去 逾 越 的 時 候 我 認 為 整 個 體 制 會 整 個 混 亂 掉\n\n05:30.567 --> 05:58.895\n我 回 答 因 為 時 間 非 常 有 限 再 要 請 教 一 下 非 核 家 園 其 實 是 臺 灣 追 求 的 一 個 長 遠 的 一 個 目 標 也 是 院 長 再 次 的 提 醒 那 其 實 在 未 來 我 們 講 的 R 1 1 0 0 的 部 分 其 實 也 把 核 能 它 其 實 不 視 為 再 生 能 源 那 所 以 核 能 還 有 很 多 的 包 括 這 個 核 廢 料 的 處 理 每 個 縣 市 沒 有 人 要 核 廢 料 包 括 臺 北 市 自 己 都 不 要 核 廢 料 新 北 市 也 不 要 核 廢 料 那 包 括 核 安 的 部 分 其 實 有 很 多 的 包 括 執 照 包 括 安 全 的 問 題 都 要 解 決\n\n06:00.035 --> 06:16.469\n主 委 怎 麼 看 ? 其 實 核 電 還 有 很 多 程 序 要 去 做 處 理 , 主 委 怎 麼 看 ? 呃 , 核 電 那 個 媒 體 那 個 是 有 一 點 不 是 我 的 原 意 喔 那 我 現 在 我 的 看 法 是 很 簡 單 的 喔 , 其 實 我 從 企 業 的 角 度 看 那 企 業 要 的 是 一 個 安 全 穩 定 足 夠 的 電 源\n\n06:17.470 --> 06:30.787\n目 前 臺 電 告 訴 我 的 是 核 電 必 須 依 法 準 時 關 掉 , 所 以 我 們 沒 有 理 由 去 思 考 這 件 事 , 得 去 思 考 電 夠 不 夠 , 目 前 臺 電 的 回 復 是 電 足 夠 的 。\n\n06:32.529 --> 06:47.245\n那 我 們 也 請 他 考 慮 到 A I 的 變 化 他 也 會 放 進 來 然 後 呢 他 們 現 在 也 修 正 上 調 需 求 嘛 那 滾 動 的 在 調 整 所 以 至 少 從 台 電 的 角 度 給 企 業 的 保 證 是 目 前 我 得 到 訊 息 是 很 清 楚 的 我 們 有 足 夠 的 電 源\n\n06:47.625 --> 07:13.116\n台 灣 最 近 因 為 我 也 講 過 很 多 次 燃 煤 大 家 不 要 嘛 核 電 當 然 有 一 些 疑 慮 上 面 燃 煤 大 家 不 要 因 為 對 空 污 影 響 嘛 那 燃 氣 也 持 續 在 增 加 高 雄 最 近 包 括 興 達 這 個 包 括 大 林 都 還 持 續 在 增 加 電 廠 全 台 灣 空 污 最 嚴 重 的 地 區 是 高 雄 但 是 高 雄 為 了 產 業 的 發 展 包 括 半 導 體 產 業 鏈 進 來 的 時 候 我 們 還 持 續 在 增 加 我 們 的 電 力 高 雄 的 電 力 有 5 0 是 往 中 送 往 北 送 的 我 們 還 是 持 續 在 發 展\n\n07:14.016 --> 07:29.224\n所 以 這 個 都 是 在 整 個 國 家 的 思 考 下 綠 電 也 全 力 在 推 動 不 管 是 這 個 太 陽 光 電 、 沿 岸 風 電 、 輻 射 的 都 在 用 想 盡 用 各 種 的 方 法 來 增 加 更 多 的 電 源 我 們 現 在 也 在 做 碳 捕 捉 也 在 做 藍 綠 群 的 推 動\n\n07:30.713 --> 07:55.107\n所 以 這 些 都 是 未 來 要 發 展 的 一 些 方 向 那 因 為 核 電 還 有 很 多 的 程 序 上 的 處 理 包 括 我 剛 剛 講 到 的 核 飛 、 核 安 甚 至 法 令 相 關 的 部 分 都 要 做 處 理 所 以 我 覺 得 這 一 塊 包 括 人 民 對 這 一 塊 也 還 有 很 多 的 疑 慮 我 是 覺 得 這 一 塊 要 妥 善 的 思 考 跟 妥 善 的 溝 通 之 後 我 認 為 這 個 才 是 一 個 那 目 前 的 部 分 電 力 確 實 即 使 有 一 些 跳 電 等 等 的 一 些 問 題 但 是 看 來 都 是 比 較\n\n07:55.868 --> 07:56.168\n是 是\n\n08:08.120 --> 08:28.179\n另 外 我 要 講 的 , 剛 剛 講 到 了 南 北 的 部 分 其 實 有 一 個 A I 產 業 的 生 態 系 包 括 高 雄 現 在 整 個 在 推 動 5 G I o T 包 括 智 慧 科 技 創 新 園 區 A I 的 聚 落 其 實 也 不 斷 地 在 往 這 邊 來 推 動 其 實 也 產 生 很 好 的 一 些 效 果\n\n08:29.640 --> 08:48.182\n包 括 很 重 要 的 電 力 的 部 分 , 高 雄 持 續 在 增 加 電 力 , 即 使 我 們 有 5 成 的 電 力 是 往 中 往 北 送 , 我 們 還 在 蓋 新 的 電 廠 就 是 在 支 撐 這 些 半 導 體 產 業 鏈 , 支 撐 這 些 A I 的 產 業 鏈 我 們 希 望 主 委 持 續 的 支 持 高 雄 , 不 要 讓 高 雄 只 有 重 工 業 , 不 要 讓 高 雄 只 有\n\n08:48.762 --> 08:49.583\n是 的 是 的\n\n09:09.639 --> 09:27.144\n主 委 支 持 嗎 ? 支 持 啦 , 速 發 部 明 天 今 天 下 午 會 來 找 我 A I 的 部 分 在 高 雄 已 經 開 始 產 生 聚 落 了 包 括 亞 灣 新 創 園 包 括 高 覽 二 期 等 等 全 部 在 推 動 了 所 以 整 個 包 括 現 在 的 整 個 都 在 亞 灣 快 速 的 來 推 動 我 也 希 望\n\n09:27.924 --> 09:46.509\n主 委 , 全 力 來 支 持 A I 的 整 個 產 業 鏈 , 半 導 體 產 業 鏈 、 A I 相 關 的 產 業 鏈 , 全 力 的 在 高 雄 來 深 耕 發 展 。 讓 南 北 , 中 委 不 反 對 的 , 至 少 在 這 樣 的 狀 況 下 的 時 候 能 夠 有 很 好 , 因 為 南 部 其 實 已 經 有 很 好 的 一 些 , 不 管 是 生 活 機 能 、 大 眾 運 輸 或 者 人 才 的 部 分 其 實 都 具 備 了 。\n\n10:07.639 --> 10:07.779\n謝 謝 主 委 謝 謝 委 員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":8.284,"text":"委員請做詢答。好,謝謝主席,請留主委。我們再請留主委。"},{"start":14.315,"end":35.965,"text":"主委好 主委委員長首先先請教一下 因為立法院的職員刑事法跟刑法修正通過了那我先問一下 這個要請主委誠實來回答了會不會擔心一些相關的包括一些企業或外商會不會擔心一些機密的一些外洩的問題 如果被立法院調來問的話 會不會"},{"start":39.176,"end":65.901,"text":"這個部分是我也有責任要去溝通那之前是有一些人是有電話跟我聯絡因為主要是媒體的訊息不夠完整所以大家對於這個訊息不夠完整的過程中產生了非常多的擔心跟這個影響那的確從條文來看的話它的確會有模糊的空間那我們可能要去多溝通之外當然如果院這邊有一個比較實時細則的話"},{"start":67.501,"end":87.049,"text":"他裡面很多都是很模糊的啦,包括可以被調來,包括所有東西,包括那個,那一旦被調來的話,其實他要求你提供資料,其實你也很難去界定到底什麼是能提供,什麼是不能提供,但是你不能提供的時候,其實就面對到相當的壓力。我問的是,因為你來自產業界,也有個待在外商公司待過,他們會不會擔心?他們會不會擔心?"},{"start":89.871,"end":110.925,"text":"實話實說即可我只問了少數的啦 那有人是主動打電話給我 他是比較擔心啦 但是我個人的那我問你一下 如果他們 那另外是他們來的話 會擔心嘛 包括一些機密外洩甚至擔心被罰款嘛 對不對 如果沒有照實的來講的話對 因為他們有內部營業秘密的問題啦 他講了就會被開除嘛"},{"start":111.505,"end":111.945,"text":"你怎麼溝通?你怎麼溝通?"},{"start":138.174,"end":162.368,"text":"我這邊可能會是告訴他就是我們如果遇到的困難的時候我們會盡量來幫忙協調然後第二個釐清當法律定的這樣這麼模糊而沒有一個明確的概念的時候任何都可能企業被調來或者是都可能被調來的時候不好意思這個我們同仁有另外一個條文涉及營業秘密的部分他是可以那怎麼去做一個界定啊"},{"start":162.608,"end":163.469,"text":"對,我有跟我太太講要有心理準備"},{"start":191.79,"end":206.509,"text":"所以我說那不只你而已欸包括你的處長甚至你的科長科員都可能被叫上來他們問的立委問的問題如果認為你是虛偽陳述你認為你是誠實作答你如果認為你是虛偽陳述的話你有可能就被視為是藐視國會欸"},{"start":208.656,"end":226.51,"text":"這樣不會產生讓很多優秀的公務同仁在來到立法院是立法院委員會徒嗎?讓很多優秀人員是不是會擔心呢?我說這樣的法台灣是有一個完整的質詢制度的我相信99.9%的人沒有人敢輕易的對立委講的話有太多的這個挑戰跟質疑的"},{"start":227.731,"end":250.371,"text":"連立委都還可以叫官員直接叫他說叫你上來然後我的就是直接叫你你下去這樣子立委可以用這樣的方式對待官員的都不會被判所謂的藐視國會罪那官員我認為我看過99.9%的都不會你為了要去修理少數一兩位政務官然後把所有的公務員都抓進來我認為這個是會傷害到整個國家的體制的主委認同這樣的看法嗎"},{"start":252.822,"end":278.736,"text":"我有義務去化解我們同仁的疑慮啦那我們會法治制我們會把整個條文再看得仔細一點因為之前比較來自媒體現在通過了我們會內部會有一個要不斷的去保護同仁讓同仁有信心的能夠在自己的公職上來幫助台灣繼續往前走同時間也要去跟外界去做溝通啦有些確實會愉悅到的部分將來因為行政委員會再提"},{"start":279.376,"end":280.578,"text":"賴瑞隆 賴瑞隆 賴瑞隆 賴瑞隆 賴瑞隆"},{"start":298.979,"end":315.181,"text":"我舉個例就好啦當年韓國瑜在選市長的時候不斷講說我選上市長我一定會查到很多的弊案幾大弊案幾大弊案上任擔任一年市長的任內查完全部查完之後沒有弊案沒有任何的弊案連送檢調都沒有連送什麼都沒有"},{"start":316.258,"end":328.463,"text":"這就是用口頭想像的那個你還是對司法的部分還是至少他的基本的一個權益的部分我們至少對司法還是要基本的一個尊重如果連這個東西能夠去逾越的時候我認為整個體制會整個混亂掉"},{"start":330.567,"end":358.895,"text":"我回答因為時間非常有限 再要請教一下非核家園其實是臺灣追求的一個長遠的一個目標也是院長再次的提醒那其實在未來我們講的R1100的部分其實也把核能它其實不視為再生能源那所以核能還有很多的包括這個核廢料的處理每個縣市沒有人要核廢料包括臺北市自己都不要核廢料新北市也不要核廢料那包括核安的部分其實有很多的包括執照包括安全的問題都要解決"},{"start":360.035,"end":376.469,"text":"主委怎麼看?其實核電還有很多程序要去做處理,主委怎麼看?呃,核電那個媒體那個是有一點不是我的原意喔那我現在我的看法是很簡單的喔,其實我從企業的角度看那企業要的是一個安全穩定足夠的電源"},{"start":377.47,"end":390.787,"text":"目前臺電告訴我的是核電必須依法準時關掉,所以我們沒有理由去思考這件事,得去思考電夠不夠,目前臺電的回復是電足夠的。"},{"start":392.529,"end":407.245,"text":"那我們也請他考慮到AI的變化他也會放進來然後呢他們現在也修正上調需求嘛那滾動的在調整所以至少從台電的角度給企業的保證是目前我得到訊息是很清楚的我們有足夠的電源"},{"start":407.625,"end":433.116,"text":"台灣最近因為我也講過很多次燃煤大家不要嘛 核電當然有一些疑慮上面燃煤大家不要因為對空污影響嘛 那燃氣也持續在增加高雄最近包括興達 這個包括大林都還持續在增加電廠全台灣空污最嚴重的地區是高雄 但是高雄為了產業的發展包括半導體產業鏈進來的時候 我們還持續在增加我們的電力高雄的電力有50是往中送往北送的 我們還是持續在發展"},{"start":434.016,"end":449.224,"text":"所以這個都是在整個國家的思考下綠電也全力在推動不管是這個太陽光電、沿岸風電、輻射的都在用想盡用各種的方法來增加更多的電源我們現在也在做碳捕捉也在做藍綠群的推動"},{"start":450.713,"end":475.107,"text":"所以這些都是未來要發展的一些方向那因為核電還有很多的程序上的處理包括我剛剛講到的核飛、核安甚至法令相關的部分都要做處理所以我覺得這一塊包括人民對這一塊也還有很多的疑慮我是覺得這一塊要妥善的思考跟妥善的溝通之後我認為這個才是一個那目前的部分電力確實即使有一些跳電等等的一些問題但是看來都是比較"},{"start":475.868,"end":476.168,"text":"是是"},{"start":488.12,"end":508.179,"text":"另外我要講的,剛剛講到了南北的部分其實有一個AI產業的生態系包括高雄現在整個在推動5G IoT包括智慧科技創新園區AI的聚落其實也不斷地在往這邊來推動其實也產生很好的一些效果"},{"start":509.64,"end":528.182,"text":"包括很重要的電力的部分,高雄持續在增加電力,即使我們有5成的電力是往中往北送,我們還在蓋新的電廠就是在支撐這些半導體產業鏈,支撐這些AI的產業鏈我們希望主委持續的支持高雄,不要讓高雄只有重工業,不要讓高雄只有"},{"start":528.762,"end":529.583,"text":"是的 是的"},{"start":549.639,"end":567.144,"text":"主委支持嗎?支持啦,速發部明天今天下午會來找我AI的部分在高雄已經開始產生聚落了包括亞灣新創園包括高覽二期等等全部在推動了所以整個包括現在的整個都在亞灣快速的來推動我也希望"},{"start":567.924,"end":586.509,"text":"主委,全力來支持AI的整個產業鏈,半導體產業鏈、AI相關的產業鏈,全力的在高雄來深耕發展。讓南北,中委不反對的,至少在這樣的狀況下的時候能夠有很好,因為南部其實已經有很好的一些,不管是生活機能、大眾運輸或者人才的部分其實都具備了。"},{"start":586.869,"end":606.698,"text":"⋯⋯"},{"start":607.639,"end":607.779,"text":"謝謝主委謝謝委員"}]}}}}