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can help要變成Taiwan can lead，那麼IMF這個議題，針對臺灣加入的部分，我曾經質詢過央行總裁楊金龍，當時他告訴我說，很抱歉，因為臺灣不是聯合國的會員國，但是本席找了資料，事實上不是聯合國的會員國，科索沃也有加入。","再來是我們都知道中國的因素會使我們無法進入國際組織，但是在IMF當中，我不知道部長是否知道，它並不是所有會員國一起來投票，而是有一個理事會，而且這個理事會事實上不是票票等值，它是依照一個所謂的「特別提款權」也就是SDR，它是依照GDP以及它的外匯存底來做筆數跟占比。因為時間有限，我直接讓部長知道，在這個特別理事會當中所謂的特別提款權，美國所占的比重是17%，言下之意，美國這樣一個比重最高的會員國支持臺灣加入IMF，有議員提出來。如果這個法案能夠順利在美國過關的話，臺灣加入IMF的機會就會相對地提高。因為在這個全體的表決權當中，美國占17%，日本占6.14%，雖然中國有6%，但是我們還有德國、法國，還有英國這些其他的友邦都可以加入，讓臺灣有機會加入。","當然我們知道，臺灣也許在經濟穩定的部分或是金融制度上面是跟得上國際的，但是能多增加一個國際組織，對我們來說就是有機會能夠跟世界發聲，更何況只要加入IMF，臺灣的金融人員可以到IMF工作，這對於Taiwan can help跟Taiwan can lead符合您今天相關的報告跟目標。所以我想請問部長的是，對於IMF這個議題，外交部有沒有研究，有沒有後續的動作？"],["林部長佳龍：其實所有的問題都源起於聯大2758號解釋案被中國給扭曲，這個現在已經引起世界的注意，包括美國，所以2758號決議只處理中國代表權，沒有涉及臺灣代表權的問題，所以臺灣可以參加所有跟聯合國還有周邊國家有關的國際組織，所以我們外交部自己也要有這個認識，因為這是中共在發動法律戰，它透過它的一些鐵桿盟友，到處在講2758號決議就是一中原則。美國說它的一中政策是建立在臺灣關係法，另外再加3個公報，或6項保證，所以臺灣關係法才是美國真正一中政策的基礎，所以這個時候就有不同版本了嘛！我們不要只聽信一種，然後它為什麼打壓得愈來愈厲害？包括在這一次世界衛生組織的大會，就是因為它紙包不住火了嘛！因為2758號決議長期被壟斷性扭曲地解釋，這個神話已經破了，所以全世界都知道臺灣要參加，因為參加是符合聯合國精神，這些是普世的價值跟人權。","比如說，我們4個最主要的國際組織沒有辦法參加都是因為中共，而這個都是損人不利己的，包括世界衛生組織、國際民航組織，還有包括氣候公約的組織，以及國際刑警組織，這些所有都是跨國界的現象，包括衛生、包括航空的安全以及氣候變遷，甚至是國際性的犯罪……"],["林委員楚茵：好，也包括我現在提出來的國際貨幣基金，也就是IMF……"],["林部長佳龍：對，臺灣是可以……"],["林委員楚茵：部長，因為我的時間有限，我最後只希望我提出這樣一個事實以及陳述之後，外交部能夠把它當成另外一個你們今年的目標。"],["林部長佳龍：好。"],["林委員楚茵：包括如何來積極推動跟參與，因為它不是沒有機會，但是如果把它放進來，對於臺灣的金融穩定、金融安全，甚至於在金融上面不要忘了，我們的外匯存底高達5,860億美元，這對於我們來說都是非常好的利器。除了之前講到的，外交邦交跟非邦交國上面的輔助之外，積極地參與國際組織，那麼我也希望部長會後請相關單位給我一份接下來如何合作、如何積極爭取加入的相關報告，好嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：好。"],["林委員楚茵：謝謝。"],["主席（馬委員文君）：謝謝。","接下來請王定宇委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":202,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-23","speakers":["馬文君","沈伯洋","羅美玲","黃仁","陳永康","林楚茵","王定宇","徐巧芯","陳冠廷","王鴻薇","麥玉珍","賴士葆","黃國昌","洪申翰","林德福","邱志偉","羅智強","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林憶君"],"page_start":149,"meetingDate":["2024-05-30"],"gazette_id":"1135301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135301_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第23次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1135301_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"153329","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153329","tool":"pyannote","id":"153329-pyannote"},"job_id":"rtBKqAEf6VDIEkrb","queued_at":"2024-05-30 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\"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 193.765, \"end\": 193.885, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 193.885, \"end\": 194.145, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 194.145, \"end\": 194.305, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"謂\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 194.305, \"end\": 194.325, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 196.37, \"end\": 220.186, \"text\": \"虛偽回應或或者虛偽陳述又或者是不回應那麼我想要問的就是外交部在這裡針對接下來如果這個真的三讀通過要實施的立院職權行使法的時候外交部現在開始應用了嗎怎麼來做剛剛那個詢答您聽不出來有什麼問題我想在場的人可能也都不知道到底哪裡有問題對現在沒問題但接下來如果這個法規過了就恐怕有問題\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"虛\"}, {\"word\": \"偽\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 196.37, \"end\": 197.19, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 197.19, \"end\": 197.41, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 197.41, \"end\": 197.65, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 197.65, \"end\": 198.531, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"虛\"}, {\"word\": \"偽\"}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"述\", \"start\": 198.531, \"end\": 198.971, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"又\", \"start\": 198.971, \"end\": 199.172, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 199.172, \"end\": 199.432, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 199.432, \"end\": 199.672, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 199.672, \"end\": 200.693, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 200.693, \"end\": 200.853, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 200.853, \"end\": 201.853, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 201.853, \"end\": 202.194, \"score\": 0.74}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 202.194, \"end\": 202.354, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 202.354, \"end\": 202.634, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 202.634, \"end\": 202.794, \"score\": 0.788}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 202.794, \"end\": 202.894, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 202.894, \"end\": 203.094, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": 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\"start\": 226.172, \"end\": 226.192, \"score\": 0.008}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 226.192, \"end\": 226.232, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 226.232, \"end\": 226.252, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 226.252, \"end\": 226.272, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"醒\", \"start\": 226.272, \"end\": 226.652, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 226.652, \"end\": 226.672, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 226.672, \"end\": 227.792, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 227.792, \"end\": 227.852, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 227.852, \"end\": 227.872, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 227.872, \"end\": 227.892, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 227.892, \"end\": 227.912, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 227.912, \"end\": 227.972, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"線\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 227.972, \"end\": 227.992, 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0.0}]}, {\"start\": 253.678, \"end\": 270.373, \"text\": \"所以我只能說今天在這裡認為未來可以私下跟委員做報告的不表示就可以這樣回答因為只要發問的委員不開心主席決定那不是所謂的秘密就得在這個質詢台上做回應\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 253.678, \"end\": 253.758, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 253.758, \"end\": 253.838, \"score\": 0.247}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 253.838, \"end\": 254.018, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 254.018, \"end\": 254.159, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 254.159, \"end\": 254.879, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 254.879, \"end\": 255.119, \"score\": 0.619}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 255.119, \"end\": 255.34, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 255.34, \"end\": 257.261, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 257.261, \"end\": 257.742, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 257.742, \"end\": 257.862, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 257.862, \"end\": 258.022, \"score\": 0.77}, {\"word\": \"私\", \"start\": 258.022, \"end\": 258.182, \"score\": 0.644}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 258.182, \"end\": 258.402, \"score\": 0.714}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 258.402, \"end\": 258.542, \"score\": 0.657}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 258.542, \"end\": 258.863, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 258.863, \"end\": 259.243, \"score\": 0.661}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 259.243, \"end\": 259.443, \"score\": 0.718}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 259.443, \"end\": 259.883, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 259.883, \"end\": 260.024, \"score\": 0.651}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 260.024, \"end\": 260.304, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"示\", \"start\": 260.304, \"end\": 260.484, \"score\": 0.668}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 260.484, \"end\": 260.624, \"score\": 0.674}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 260.624, \"end\": 260.724, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 260.724, \"end\": 261.085, \"score\": 0.682}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 261.085, \"end\": 261.305, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 261.305, \"end\": 261.865, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 261.865, \"end\": 262.346, \"score\": 0.691}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 262.346, \"end\": 262.526, \"score\": 0.694}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 262.526, \"end\": 263.707, \"score\": 0.779}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 263.707, \"end\": 263.847, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 263.847, \"end\": 264.287, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 264.287, \"end\": 264.628, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 264.628, \"end\": 265.148, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 265.148, \"end\": 265.388, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 265.388, \"end\": 265.729, \"score\": 0.786}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 265.729, \"end\": 265.869, \"score\": 0.615}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 265.869, \"end\": 266.009, \"score\": 0.619}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 266.009, \"end\": 266.129, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 266.129, \"end\": 266.829, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 266.829, \"end\": 267.27, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"謂\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 267.27, \"end\": 267.73, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"秘\", \"start\": 267.73, \"end\": 267.97, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"密\", \"start\": 267.97, \"end\": 268.711, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 268.711, \"end\": 268.951, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 268.951, \"end\": 269.151, \"score\": 0.717}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 269.151, \"end\": 269.812, \"score\": 0.679}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 269.812, \"end\": 269.952, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 269.952, \"end\": 270.152, \"score\": 0.774}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 270.152, \"end\": 270.353, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 270.353, \"end\": 270.373, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"應\"}]}, {\"start\": 271.093, \"end\": 299.922, \"text\": \"當然另外還有一個就是對於我們民進黨來講我們從頭到尾都認為這度法令是假改革真擴權但是它依舊通過了而在這個通過的過程當中在業黨的委員也曾經提及部長您在擔任立法委員的過程當中您也是支持國會改革的所以現在您身為部長了會不會覺得這兩者之間有什麼差異又或者是說部長您當年所提出來的國會改革方案跟現在的國慶改革方案相同嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 271.093, \"end\": 271.273, \"score\": 0.699}, {\"word\": \"另\", \"start\": 271.273, \"end\": 271.453, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 271.453, \"end\": 271.813, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 271.813, \"end\": 271.973, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 271.973, \"end\": 272.213, \"score\": 0.726}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 272.213, 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\"start\": 557.009, \"end\": 557.55, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"聯\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 557.55, \"end\": 557.73, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 557.73, \"end\": 557.83, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"釋\"}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 557.83, \"end\": 557.85, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 557.85, \"end\": 557.89, \"score\": 0.042}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"扭\", \"start\": 557.89, \"end\": 557.91, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"曲\", \"start\": 557.91, \"end\": 557.93, \"score\": 0.006}]}, {\"start\": 562.815, \"end\": 575.967, \"text\": \"那這個現在已經引起世界的注意那包括美國所以27582決議只處理中國代表權沒有涉及台灣代表權的問題所以台灣可以參加所有的跟聯合國還有周邊國家有關的國際組織\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 562.815, \"end\": 563.936, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", 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{\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 698.743, \"end\": 698.883, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 698.883, \"end\": 698.903, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"en\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,069 --> 00:00:00,989\n沒 有 聲 音 是 不 是 ?\n\n2\n00:00:39,094 --> 00:00:47,499\n主 席 這 個 時 間 我 們 就 不 暫 停 但 是 等 一 下 就 再 給 我 多 一 點 時 間\n\n3\n00:01:01,408 --> 00:01:14,897\n好 , 這 個 我 們 委 員 會 拜 託 以 後 這 個 真 的 有 測 試 的 話 要 協 助 我 們 一 下 , 不 然 的 話 這 樣 聽 不 到 , 對 。 可 以 找 個 時 間 到 委 員 那 裡 做 一 個 比 較 詳 盡 的 報 告 。 好 , 謝 謝 政 次 。\n\n4\n00:01:27,655 --> 00:01:32,953\n部 長 這 一 段 發 言 跟 詢 答 的 內 容 有 沒 有 覺 得 哪 裡 不 妥 當 ?\n\n5\n00:01:35,967 --> 00:01:41,912\n昨 天 我 在 質 詢 有 關 於 田 正 四 的 時 候 特 別 提 到 了 那 就 是 參 加 完 5 2 0 之 後 那 麼 這 個 出 席 的 澳 洲 的 國 會 議 員 回 去 他 們 就 接 收 到 了 中 國 的 這 個 駐 澳 洲 的 這 個 代 表 處 的 相 關 的 這 個 警 告 信 函\n\n6\n00:01:59,588 --> 00:02:12,307\n那 我 就 問 了 田 正 志 說 那 除 了 澳 洲 之 外 還 有 沒 有 其 他 的 地 方 田 正 志 回 答 我 說 委 員 那 我 是 不 是 下 一 次 我 在 一 個 比 較 妥 當 的 地 方 不 要 公 開 我 私 下 跟 您 來 報 告 您 覺 得 有 沒 有 什 麼 不 妥 當 的 地 方\n\n7\n00:02:14,673 --> 00:02:39,924\n一 時 無 法 回 答 是 嗎 我 直 接 告 訴 你 答 案 因 為 剛 剛 這 個 放 影 片 已 經 浪 費 了 大 概 快 兩 分 鐘 是 這 個 未 來 喔 在 5 月 2 4 號 修 正 過 之 後 的 立 院 職 權 行 使 法 所 有 相 關 的 外 交 國 防 的 機 密 在 委 員 會 當 中 可 不 是 我 說 了 算 還 得 要 主 席 同 意 是 機 密 才 是 機 密 所 以 說 以 剛 剛 那 樣 的 詢 答 恐 怕 已 經 犯 了 藐 視 國 會 罪\n\n8\n00:02:41,525 --> 00:02:44,231\n因 為 他 沒 有 立 刻 回 答 我 他 得 要 回 去 之 後 才 要 告 訴 我\n\n9\n00:02:47,136 --> 00:03:14,325\n所 以 其 實 本 席 是 要 特 別 提 醒 的 是 有 關 於 國 防 或 外 交 很 多 東 西 可 能 無 法 公 開 來 做 但 是 現 在 如 果 立 院 職 權 行 使 法 的 修 正 再 加 上 國 民 黨 跟 民 眾 黨 所 提 出 的 刑 法 的 修 正 那 麼 這 不 只 是 不 回 答 喔 有 可 能 還 要 有 刑 事 上 面 的 判 決 喔 那 麼 現 在 如 果 說 會 議 主 席 裁 定 是 機 密 才 能 夠 保 留 不 回 答 沒 有 所 謂 的\n\n10\n00:03:16,370 --> 00:03:40,186\n虛 偽 回 應 或 或 者 虛 偽 陳 述 又 或 者 是 不 回 應 那 麼 我 想 要 問 的 就 是 外 交 部 在 這 裡 針 對 接 下 來 如 果 這 個 真 的 三 讀 通 過 要 實 施 的 立 院 職 權 行 使 法 的 時 候 外 交 部 現 在 開 始 應 用 了 嗎 怎 麼 來 做 剛 剛 那 個 詢 答 您 聽 不 出 來 有 什 麼 問 題 我 想 在 場 的 人 可 能 也 都 不 知 道 到 底 哪 裡 有 問 題 對 現 在 沒 問 題 但 接 下 來 如 果 這 個 法 規 過 了 就 恐 怕 有 問 題\n\n11\n00:03:46,172 --> 00:03:49,113\n部 長 我 的 提 醒 就 是 接 下 來 到 底 那 條 線 要 劃 在 哪 裡 因 為 法 規 上 面 是 非 常 不 明 確 的\n\n12\n00:04:13,678 --> 00:04:30,373\n所 以 我 只 能 說 今 天 在 這 裡 認 為 未 來 可 以 私 下 跟 委 員 做 報 告 的 不 表 示 就 可 以 這 樣 回 答 因 為 只 要 發 問 的 委 員 不 開 心 主 席 決 定 那 不 是 所 謂 的 秘 密 就 得 在 這 個 質 詢 台 上 做 回 應\n\n13\n00:04:31,093 --> 00:04:59,922\n當 然 另 外 還 有 一 個 就 是 對 於 我 們 民 進 黨 來 講 我 們 從 頭 到 尾 都 認 為 這 度 法 令 是 假 改 革 真 擴 權 但 是 它 依 舊 通 過 了 而 在 這 個 通 過 的 過 程 當 中 在 業 黨 的 委 員 也 曾 經 提 及 部 長 您 在 擔 任 立 法 委 員 的 過 程 當 中 您 也 是 支 持 國 會 改 革 的 所 以 現 在 您 身 為 部 長 了 會 不 會 覺 得 這 兩 者 之 間 有 什 麼 差 異 又 或 者 是 說 部 長 您 當 年 所 提 出 來 的 國 會 改 革 方 案 跟 現 在 的 國 慶 改 革 方 案 相 同 嗎\n\n14\n00:05:03,061 --> 00:05:20,545\n那 個 是 屬 於 調 閱 權 不 是 調 查 權 那 因 為 我 們 憲 法 上 的 規 定 不 管 是 司 法 或 監 察 的 調 查 權 有 它 的 專 屬 但 是 我 們 國 會 要 行 使 職 權 也 必 須 要 有 一 定 的 調 閱 權 這 是 經 過 大 法 官 會 議 的 解 釋 那 你 怎 麼 樣 來 充 實 這 個 調 閱 權\n\n15\n00:05:23,146 --> 00:05:50,424\n因 為 我 們 立 法 院 我 當 過 立 委 但 我 現 在 是 外 交 部 長 我 不 能 替 別 人 講 話 就 是 我 們 的 聽 證 制 度 可 以 再 做 一 個 怎 麼 樣 能 夠 來 精 進 讓 它 確 實 比 較 像 聽 證 制 度 而 這 個 比 較 像 的 時 候 同 時 也 就 它 在 調 位 上 當 然 就 有 相 對 的 權 利 義 務 所 以 它 不 是 對 人 的 調 查 權 或 者 是 說 因 為 無 限 去 擴 充 所 以 我 們 是 依 照 大 法 官 解 釋 當 時 的 配 合 修 法 整 套 的 啦\n\n16\n00:05:50,964 --> 00:05:55,167\n部 長 我 趁 這 個 機 會 讓 你 好 好 解 釋 一 下 因 為 未 來 很 有 可 能 在 野 黨 如 果 不 理 解 認 為 他 們 所 提 的 版 本 就 是 當 年 你 所 提 出 來 的 那 你 可 能 就 會 批 評 這 個 所 謂 換 了 位 子 換 了 腦 子 那 這 個 部 分 我 也 希 望\n\n17\n00:06:18,504 --> 00:06:38,807\n外 交 部 因 為 本 身 有 很 多 的 外 交 秘 密 在 進 行 甚 至 有 很 多 的 外 交 的 合 作 他 其 實 是 在 進 行 中 但 無 法 開 誠 布 公 也 不 是 立 法 委 員 可 以 藉 由 立 法 院 的 所 謂 言 論 免 責 權 可 以 特 別 去 把 它 彰 顯 出 來 因 為 這 個 危 害 到 的 都 是 國 家 的 安 全 的 部 分\n\n18\n00:06:39,147 --> 00:07:06,210\n但 是 怎 麼 樣 去 細 緻 的 來 做 執 行 ． 恐 怕 外 交 部 是 要 有 所 因 應 跟 討 論 ． 尤 其 是 到 立 法 院 來 備 詢 ． 或 者 是 立 委 要 求 所 資 的 部 分 ． 另 外 我 的 時 間 有 限 ． 我 想 部 長 一 定 知 道 昨 天 ． 有 美 國 的 議 員 來 到 台 灣 訪 問 ． 甚 至 於 來 到 了 我 們 外 交 委 員 會 ． 其 中 我 特 別 關 注 的 這 一 位 呢 ． 是 站 在 我 跟 王 定 宇 委 員 中 間 的 這 位 金 映 玉 ． 因 為 她 曾 經 提 出 了 不 歧 視 台 灣 的 法 案 ．\n\n19\n00:07:06,630 --> 00:07:16,812\n其 中 非 常 重 要 的 就 是 讓 台 灣 可 以 加 入 I N F 那 麼 剛 剛 我 看 到 這 個 部 長 的 報 告 非 常 的 支 持 這 部 分 就 是 台 灣 c a n h e l p 要 變 成 是 台 灣 c a n l e a d 那 麼 I N F 這 個 議 題 台 灣 加 入 的 部 分 我 曾 經 質 詢 過 央 行 總 裁 彭 金 龍 當 時 他 告 訴 我 說 很 抱 歉 因 為 台 灣 不 是 聯 合 國 的 會 員 國 但 是 本 席 找 了 資 料 事 實 上 不 是 聯 合 國 的 會 員 國 科 索 沃 他 也 有 加 入\n\n20\n00:07:34,295 --> 00:07:58,646\n再 來 是 我 們 都 知 道 中 國 的 因 素 會 使 我 們 無 法 來 進 行 進 入 國 際 組 織 但 是 在 I N F 當 中 我 不 知 道 部 長 是 否 知 道 他 並 不 是 所 有 的 會 員 國 一 起 來 投 票 而 是 有 一 個 理 事 會 而 且 這 個 理 事 會 事 實 上 不 是 票 票 等 值 他 是 依 照 有 一 個 所 謂 的 特 別 提 撥 權 就 是 S D R 他 是 依 照 G D P 以 及 他 的 外 匯 存 底 來 做 比 數 跟 佔 比\n\n21\n00:08:01,027 --> 00:08:11,825\n因 為 時 間 有 限 我 直 接 讓 部 長 知 道 在 這 樣 的 所 謂 的 特 別 的 理 事 會 當 中 的 所 謂 特 別 提 款 權 當 中 美 國 他 所 佔 的 比 重 是 1 7 % 言 下 之 意\n\n22\n00:08:14,537 --> 00:08:24,985\n美 國 將 一 個 比 重 最 高 的 國 家 會 員 國 支 持 台 灣 加 入 I M F 有 議 員 提 出 來 如 果 這 個 法 案 能 夠 順 利 在 美 國 過 關 的 話 台 灣 加 入 I M F 的 機 會 就 會 相 對 的 提 高 因 為 在 這 個 全 體 的 表 決 權 當 中 美 國 佔 1 7 日 本 佔 6 . 1 4 雖 然 中 國 有 6 % 但 是 我 們 還 有 德 國 法 國\n\n23\n00:08:38,314 --> 00:08:51,864\n還 有 英 國 這 些 其 他 的 友 邦 都 可 以 加 入 讓 台 灣 有 機 會 加 入 當 然 我 們 知 道 台 灣 也 許 在 經 濟 穩 定 的 部 分 或 是 金 融 制 度 上 面 是 跟 得 上 國 際 的 但 是 能 多 增 加 一 個 國 際 組 織 對 我 們 來 說 就 是 有 機 會 能 夠 跟 世 界 發 聲 更 何 況 只 要 加 入 I F F 台 灣 的 金 融 人 員 可 以 到 I F F 來 工 作\n\n24\n00:09:01,091 --> 00:09:17,930\n這 對 於 T a i w a n c a n h e l p 跟 T a i w a n c a n l e a d 符 合 您 的 相 關 今 天 的 報 告 跟 目 標 所 以 我 想 請 問 部 長 的 是 對 於 M N F 這 個 議 題 外 交 部 有 沒 有 研 究 有 沒 有 後 續 的 動 作 是 其 實 所 有 的 問 題 都 源 起 於 聯 大 2 7 5 8 號 解 釋 被 中 國 給 這 個 扭 曲\n\n25\n00:09:22,815 --> 00:09:35,967\n那 這 個 現 在 已 經 引 起 世 界 的 注 意 那 包 括 美 國 所 以 2 7 5 8 2 決 議 只 處 理 中 國 代 表 權 沒 有 涉 及 台 灣 代 表 權 的 問 題 所 以 台 灣 可 以 參 加 所 有 的 跟 聯 合 國 還 有 周 邊 國 家 有 關 的 國 際 組 織\n\n26\n00:09:38,889 --> 00:09:53,215\n所 以 我 們 自 己 外 交 部 也 要 有 這 個 認 識 因 為 這 個 是 中 共 在 發 動 法 律 戰 他 透 過 他 的 一 些 鐵 桿 的 盟 友 到 處 在 講 2 7 5 8 是 一 個 一 中 原 則 那 美 國 說 他 的 一 中 政 策 是 盡 量 台 灣 關 係 法\n\n27\n00:09:55,275 --> 00:10:20,801\n另 外 再 加 3 個 公 報 或 6 項 保 證 所 以 台 灣 關 係 法 才 是 美 國 真 正 的 一 中 政 策 的 基 礎 所 以 這 個 時 候 就 有 不 同 版 本 了 嘛 所 以 我 們 不 要 去 只 聽 信 一 種 然 後 他 是 為 什 麼 打 壓 越 來 越 厲 害 包 括 在 這 一 次 的 世 界 衛 生 組 織 的 大 會 就 是 因 為 他 只 包 不 住 火 了 嘛 因 為 2 7 5 8 2 長 期 被 壟 斷 性 的 這 個 扭 曲 的 解 釋 啊 已 經 這 個 神 話 已 經 破 了\n\n28\n00:10:23,436 --> 00:10:39,905\n所 以 這 全 世 界 都 知 道 台 灣 要 參 加 因 為 參 加 是 符 合 聯 合 國 精 神 這 些 普 世 的 價 值 跟 人 權 比 如 說 我 們 四 個 最 主 要 的 國 際 組 織 沒 辦 法 參 加 都 是 因 為 中 共 而 這 個 都 是 損 人 不 利 己 的 包 括 世 界 衛 生 組 織 國 際 民 航 組 織 還 有 包 括 氣 候 公 約 的 這 個 組 織 以 及 國 際 刑 警 的 組 織\n\n29\n00:10:45,928 --> 00:10:49,010\n包 括 其 實 我 現 在 提 出 來 的 國 際 貨 幣 基 金 就 是 R M F 部 長 我 的 時 間 有 限 我 最 後 只 希 望 我 提 出 這 樣 的 一 個 事 實 以 及 陳 述 之 後 我 希 望 外 交 部 能 夠 把 它 當 成 另 外 一 個 你 們 今 年 的 目 標\n\n30\n00:11:11,547 --> 00:11:36,822\n包 括 如 何 的 來 積 極 推 動 跟 參 與 因 為 它 不 是 沒 有 機 會 但 是 如 果 把 它 放 進 來 對 於 台 灣 的 金 融 穩 定 金 融 安 全 甚 至 於 在 金 融 上 面 不 要 忘 了 我 們 的 這 個 外 匯 存 底 高 達 有 5 8 6 0 億 美 元 這 對 於 我 們 來 說 都 是 非 常 好 的 一 個 利 器 那 麼 除 了 這 個 之 前 講 到 的 外 交 邦 交 跟 非 邦 交 國 上 面 的 輔 助 之 外 積 極 的 參 與 國 際 組 織\n\n31\n00:11:38,743 --> 00:11:38,903\n主 席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n69\t989\t沒有聲音是不是?\n39094\t47499\t主席這個時間我們就不暫停但是等一下就再給我多一點時間\n61408\t74897\t好,這個我們委員會拜託以後這個真的有測試的話要協助我們一下,不然的話這樣聽不到,對。可以找個時間到委員那裡做一個比較詳盡的報告。好,謝謝政次。\n87655\t92953\t部長這一段發言跟詢答的內容有沒有覺得哪裡不妥當?\n95967\t101912\t昨天我在質詢有關於田正四的時候特別提到了那就是參加完520之後那麼這個出席的澳洲的國會議員回去他們就接收到了中國的這個駐澳洲的這個代表處的相關的這個警告信函\n119588\t132307\t那我就問了田正志說那除了澳洲之外還有沒有其他的地方田正志回答我說委員那我是不是下一次我在一個比較妥當的地方不要公開我私下跟您來報告您覺得有沒有什麼不妥當的地方\n134673\t159924\t一時無法回答是嗎我直接告訴你答案因為剛剛這個放影片已經浪費了大概快兩分鐘是這個未來喔在5月24號修正過之後的立院職權行使法所有相關的外交國防的機密在委員會當中可不是我說了算還得要主席同意是機密才是機密所以說以剛剛那樣的詢答恐怕已經犯了藐視國會罪\n161525\t164231\t因為他沒有立刻回答我他得要回去之後才要告訴我\n167136\t194325\t所以其實本席是要特別提醒的是有關於國防或外交很多東西可能無法公開來做但是現在如果立院職權行使法的修正再加上國民黨跟民眾黨所提出的刑法的修正那麼這不只是不回答喔有可能還要有刑事上面的判決喔那麼現在如果說會議主席裁定是機密才能夠保留不回答沒有所謂的\n196370\t220186\t虛偽回應或或者虛偽陳述又或者是不回應那麼我想要問的就是外交部在這裡針對接下來如果這個真的三讀通過要實施的立院職權行使法的時候外交部現在開始應用了嗎怎麼來做剛剛那個詢答您聽不出來有什麼問題我想在場的人可能也都不知道到底哪裡有問題對現在沒問題但接下來如果這個法規過了就恐怕有問題\n226172\t229113\t部長我的提醒就是接下來到底那條線要劃在哪裡因為法規上面是非常不明確的\n253678\t270373\t所以我只能說今天在這裡認為未來可以私下跟委員做報告的不表示就可以這樣回答因為只要發問的委員不開心主席決定那不是所謂的秘密就得在這個質詢台上做回應\n271093\t299922\t當然另外還有一個就是對於我們民進黨來講我們從頭到尾都認為這度法令是假改革真擴權但是它依舊通過了而在這個通過的過程當中在業黨的委員也曾經提及部長您在擔任立法委員的過程當中您也是支持國會改革的所以現在您身為部長了會不會覺得這兩者之間有什麼差異又或者是說部長您當年所提出來的國會改革方案跟現在的國慶改革方案相同嗎\n303061\t320545\t那個是屬於調閱權不是調查權那因為我們憲法上的規定不管是司法或監察的調查權有它的專屬但是我們國會要行使職權也必須要有一定的調閱權這是經過大法官會議的解釋那你怎麼樣來充實這個調閱權\n323146\t350424\t因為我們立法院我當過立委但我現在是外交部長我不能替別人講話就是我們的聽證制度可以再做一個怎麼樣能夠來精進讓它確實比較像聽證制度而這個比較像的時候同時也就它在調位上當然就有相對的權利義務所以它不是對人的調查權或者是說因為無限去擴充所以我們是依照大法官解釋當時的配合修法整套的啦\n350964\t355167\t部長我趁這個機會讓你好好解釋一下因為未來很有可能在野黨如果不理解認為他們所提的版本就是當年你所提出來的那你可能就會批評這個所謂換了位子換了腦子那這個部分我也希望\n378504\t398807\t外交部因為本身有很多的外交秘密在進行甚至有很多的外交的合作他其實是在進行中但無法開誠布公也不是立法委員可以藉由立法院的所謂言論免責權可以特別去把它彰顯出來因為這個危害到的都是國家的安全的部分\n399147\t426210\t但是怎麼樣去細緻的來做執行．恐怕外交部是要有所因應跟討論．尤其是到立法院來備詢．或者是立委要求所資的部分．另外我的時間有限．我想部長一定知道昨天．有美國的議員來到台灣訪問．甚至於來到了我們外交委員會．其中我特別關注的這一位呢．是站在我跟王定宇委員中間的這位金映玉．因為她曾經提出了不歧視台灣的法案．\n426630\t436812\t其中非常重要的就是讓台灣可以加入INF那麼剛剛我看到這個部長的報告非常的支持這部分就是台灣can help要變成是台灣can lead那麼INF這個議題台灣加入的部分我曾經質詢過央行總裁彭金龍當時他告訴我說很抱歉因為台灣不是聯合國的會員國但是本席找了資料事實上不是聯合國的會員國科索沃他也有加入\n454295\t478646\t再來是我們都知道中國的因素會使我們無法來進行進入國際組織但是在INF當中我不知道部長是否知道他並不是所有的會員國一起來投票而是有一個理事會而且這個理事會事實上不是票票等值他是依照有一個所謂的特別提撥權就是SDR他是依照GDP以及他的外匯存底來做比數跟佔比\n481027\t491825\t因為時間有限我直接讓部長知道在這樣的所謂的特別的理事會當中的所謂特別提款權當中美國他所佔的比重是17%言下之意\n494537\t504985\t美國將一個比重最高的國家會員國支持台灣加入IMF有議員提出來如果這個法案能夠順利在美國過關的話台灣加入IMF的機會就會相對的提高因為在這個全體的表決權當中美國佔17日本佔6.14雖然中國有6%但是我們還有德國法國\n518314\t531864\t還有英國這些其他的友邦都可以加入讓台灣有機會加入當然我們知道台灣也許在經濟穩定的部分或是金融制度上面是跟得上國際的但是能多增加一個國際組織對我們來說就是有機會能夠跟世界發聲更何況只要加入IFF台灣的金融人員可以到IFF來工作\n541091\t557930\t這對於Taiwan can help跟Taiwan can lead符合您的相關今天的報告跟目標所以我想請問部長的是對於MNF這個議題外交部有沒有研究有沒有後續的動作是其實所有的問題都源起於聯大2758號解釋被中國給這個扭曲\n562815\t575967\t那這個現在已經引起世界的注意那包括美國所以27582決議只處理中國代表權沒有涉及台灣代表權的問題所以台灣可以參加所有的跟聯合國還有周邊國家有關的國際組織\n578889\t593215\t所以我們自己外交部也要有這個認識因為這個是中共在發動法律戰他透過他的一些鐵桿的盟友到處在講2758是一個一中原則那美國說他的一中政策是盡量台灣關係法\n595275\t620801\t另外再加3個公報或6項保證所以台灣關係法才是美國真正的一中政策的基礎所以這個時候就有不同版本了嘛所以我們不要去只聽信一種然後他是為什麼打壓越來越厲害包括在這一次的世界衛生組織的大會就是因為他只包不住火了嘛因為27582長期被壟斷性的這個扭曲的解釋啊已經這個神話已經破了\n623436\t639905\t所以這全世界都知道台灣要參加因為參加是符合聯合國精神這些普世的價值跟人權比如說我們四個最主要的國際組織沒辦法參加都是因為中共而這個都是損人不利己的包括世界衛生組織國際民航組織還有包括氣候公約的這個組織以及國際刑警的組織\n645928\t649010\t包括其實我現在提出來的國際貨幣基金就是RMF部長我的時間有限我最後只希望我提出這樣的一個事實以及陳述之後我希望外交部能夠把它當成另外一個你們今年的目標\n671547\t696822\t包括如何的來積極推動跟參與因為它不是沒有機會但是如果把它放進來對於台灣的金融穩定金融安全甚至於在金融上面不要忘了我們的這個外匯存底高達有5860億美元這對於我們來說都是非常好的一個利器那麼除了這個之前講到的外交邦交跟非邦交國上面的輔助之外積極的參與國際組織\n698743\t698903\t主席\n","txt":"沒有聲音是不是?\n主席這個時間我們就不暫停但是等一下就再給我多一點時間\n好,這個我們委員會拜託以後這個真的有測試的話要協助我們一下,不然的話這樣聽不到,對。可以找個時間到委員那裡做一個比較詳盡的報告。好,謝謝政次。\n部長這一段發言跟詢答的內容有沒有覺得哪裡不妥當?\n昨天我在質詢有關於田正四的時候特別提到了那就是參加完520之後那麼這個出席的澳洲的國會議員回去他們就接收到了中國的這個駐澳洲的這個代表處的相關的這個警告信函\n那我就問了田正志說那除了澳洲之外還有沒有其他的地方田正志回答我說委員那我是不是下一次我在一個比較妥當的地方不要公開我私下跟您來報告您覺得有沒有什麼不妥當的地方\n一時無法回答是嗎我直接告訴你答案因為剛剛這個放影片已經浪費了大概快兩分鐘是這個未來喔在5月24號修正過之後的立院職權行使法所有相關的外交國防的機密在委員會當中可不是我說了算還得要主席同意是機密才是機密所以說以剛剛那樣的詢答恐怕已經犯了藐視國會罪\n因為他沒有立刻回答我他得要回去之後才要告訴我\n所以其實本席是要特別提醒的是有關於國防或外交很多東西可能無法公開來做但是現在如果立院職權行使法的修正再加上國民黨跟民眾黨所提出的刑法的修正那麼這不只是不回答喔有可能還要有刑事上面的判決喔那麼現在如果說會議主席裁定是機密才能夠保留不回答沒有所謂的\n虛偽回應或或者虛偽陳述又或者是不回應那麼我想要問的就是外交部在這裡針對接下來如果這個真的三讀通過要實施的立院職權行使法的時候外交部現在開始應用了嗎怎麼來做剛剛那個詢答您聽不出來有什麼問題我想在場的人可能也都不知道到底哪裡有問題對現在沒問題但接下來如果這個法規過了就恐怕有問題\n部長我的提醒就是接下來到底那條線要劃在哪裡因為法規上面是非常不明確的\n所以我只能說今天在這裡認為未來可以私下跟委員做報告的不表示就可以這樣回答因為只要發問的委員不開心主席決定那不是所謂的秘密就得在這個質詢台上做回應\n當然另外還有一個就是對於我們民進黨來講我們從頭到尾都認為這度法令是假改革真擴權但是它依舊通過了而在這個通過的過程當中在業黨的委員也曾經提及部長您在擔任立法委員的過程當中您也是支持國會改革的所以現在您身為部長了會不會覺得這兩者之間有什麼差異又或者是說部長您當年所提出來的國會改革方案跟現在的國慶改革方案相同嗎\n那個是屬於調閱權不是調查權那因為我們憲法上的規定不管是司法或監察的調查權有它的專屬但是我們國會要行使職權也必須要有一定的調閱權這是經過大法官會議的解釋那你怎麼樣來充實這個調閱權\n因為我們立法院我當過立委但我現在是外交部長我不能替別人講話就是我們的聽證制度可以再做一個怎麼樣能夠來精進讓它確實比較像聽證制度而這個比較像的時候同時也就它在調位上當然就有相對的權利義務所以它不是對人的調查權或者是說因為無限去擴充所以我們是依照大法官解釋當時的配合修法整套的啦\n部長我趁這個機會讓你好好解釋一下因為未來很有可能在野黨如果不理解認為他們所提的版本就是當年你所提出來的那你可能就會批評這個所謂換了位子換了腦子那這個部分我也希望\n外交部因為本身有很多的外交秘密在進行甚至有很多的外交的合作他其實是在進行中但無法開誠布公也不是立法委員可以藉由立法院的所謂言論免責權可以特別去把它彰顯出來因為這個危害到的都是國家的安全的部分\n但是怎麼樣去細緻的來做執行．恐怕外交部是要有所因應跟討論．尤其是到立法院來備詢．或者是立委要求所資的部分．另外我的時間有限．我想部長一定知道昨天．有美國的議員來到台灣訪問．甚至於來到了我們外交委員會．其中我特別關注的這一位呢．是站在我跟王定宇委員中間的這位金映玉．因為她曾經提出了不歧視台灣的法案．\n其中非常重要的就是讓台灣可以加入INF那麼剛剛我看到這個部長的報告非常的支持這部分就是台灣can help要變成是台灣can lead那麼INF這個議題台灣加入的部分我曾經質詢過央行總裁彭金龍當時他告訴我說很抱歉因為台灣不是聯合國的會員國但是本席找了資料事實上不是聯合國的會員國科索沃他也有加入\n再來是我們都知道中國的因素會使我們無法來進行進入國際組織但是在INF當中我不知道部長是否知道他並不是所有的會員國一起來投票而是有一個理事會而且這個理事會事實上不是票票等值他是依照有一個所謂的特別提撥權就是SDR他是依照GDP以及他的外匯存底來做比數跟佔比\n因為時間有限我直接讓部長知道在這樣的所謂的特別的理事會當中的所謂特別提款權當中美國他所佔的比重是17%言下之意\n美國將一個比重最高的國家會員國支持台灣加入IMF有議員提出來如果這個法案能夠順利在美國過關的話台灣加入IMF的機會就會相對的提高因為在這個全體的表決權當中美國佔17日本佔6.14雖然中國有6%但是我們還有德國法國\n還有英國這些其他的友邦都可以加入讓台灣有機會加入當然我們知道台灣也許在經濟穩定的部分或是金融制度上面是跟得上國際的但是能多增加一個國際組織對我們來說就是有機會能夠跟世界發聲更何況只要加入IFF台灣的金融人員可以到IFF來工作\n這對於Taiwan can help跟Taiwan can lead符合您的相關今天的報告跟目標所以我想請問部長的是對於MNF這個議題外交部有沒有研究有沒有後續的動作是其實所有的問題都源起於聯大2758號解釋被中國給這個扭曲\n那這個現在已經引起世界的注意那包括美國所以27582決議只處理中國代表權沒有涉及台灣代表權的問題所以台灣可以參加所有的跟聯合國還有周邊國家有關的國際組織\n所以我們自己外交部也要有這個認識因為這個是中共在發動法律戰他透過他的一些鐵桿的盟友到處在講2758是一個一中原則那美國說他的一中政策是盡量台灣關係法\n另外再加3個公報或6項保證所以台灣關係法才是美國真正的一中政策的基礎所以這個時候就有不同版本了嘛所以我們不要去只聽信一種然後他是為什麼打壓越來越厲害包括在這一次的世界衛生組織的大會就是因為他只包不住火了嘛因為27582長期被壟斷性的這個扭曲的解釋啊已經這個神話已經破了\n所以這全世界都知道台灣要參加因為參加是符合聯合國精神這些普世的價值跟人權比如說我們四個最主要的國際組織沒辦法參加都是因為中共而這個都是損人不利己的包括世界衛生組織國際民航組織還有包括氣候公約的這個組織以及國際刑警的組織\n包括其實我現在提出來的國際貨幣基金就是RMF部長我的時間有限我最後只希望我提出這樣的一個事實以及陳述之後我希望外交部能夠把它當成另外一個你們今年的目標\n包括如何的來積極推動跟參與因為它不是沒有機會但是如果把它放進來對於台灣的金融穩定金融安全甚至於在金融上面不要忘了我們的這個外匯存底高達有5860億美元這對於我們來說都是非常好的一個利器那麼除了這個之前講到的外交邦交跟非邦交國上面的輔助之外積極的參與國際組織\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.069 --> 00:00.989\n沒 有 聲 音 是 不 是 ?\n\n00:39.094 --> 00:47.499\n主 席 這 個 時 間 我 們 就 不 暫 停 但 是 等 一 下 就 再 給 我 多 一 點 時 間\n\n01:01.408 --> 01:14.897\n好 , 這 個 我 們 委 員 會 拜 託 以 後 這 個 真 的 有 測 試 的 話 要 協 助 我 們 一 下 , 不 然 的 話 這 樣 聽 不 到 , 對 。 可 以 找 個 時 間 到 委 員 那 裡 做 一 個 比 較 詳 盡 的 報 告 。 好 , 謝 謝 政 次 。\n\n01:27.655 --> 01:32.953\n部 長 這 一 段 發 言 跟 詢 答 的 內 容 有 沒 有 覺 得 哪 裡 不 妥 當 ?\n\n01:35.967 --> 01:41.912\n昨 天 我 在 質 詢 有 關 於 田 正 四 的 時 候 特 別 提 到 了 那 就 是 參 加 完 5 2 0 之 後 那 麼 這 個 出 席 的 澳 洲 的 國 會 議 員 回 去 他 們 就 接 收 到 了 中 國 的 這 個 駐 澳 洲 的 這 個 代 表 處 的 相 關 的 這 個 警 告 信 函\n\n01:59.588 --> 02:12.307\n那 我 就 問 了 田 正 志 說 那 除 了 澳 洲 之 外 還 有 沒 有 其 他 的 地 方 田 正 志 回 答 我 說 委 員 那 我 是 不 是 下 一 次 我 在 一 個 比 較 妥 當 的 地 方 不 要 公 開 我 私 下 跟 您 來 報 告 您 覺 得 有 沒 有 什 麼 不 妥 當 的 地 方\n\n02:14.673 --> 02:39.924\n一 時 無 法 回 答 是 嗎 我 直 接 告 訴 你 答 案 因 為 剛 剛 這 個 放 影 片 已 經 浪 費 了 大 概 快 兩 分 鐘 是 這 個 未 來 喔 在 5 月 2 4 號 修 正 過 之 後 的 立 院 職 權 行 使 法 所 有 相 關 的 外 交 國 防 的 機 密 在 委 員 會 當 中 可 不 是 我 說 了 算 還 得 要 主 席 同 意 是 機 密 才 是 機 密 所 以 說 以 剛 剛 那 樣 的 詢 答 恐 怕 已 經 犯 了 藐 視 國 會 罪\n\n02:41.525 --> 02:44.231\n因 為 他 沒 有 立 刻 回 答 我 他 得 要 回 去 之 後 才 要 告 訴 我\n\n02:47.136 --> 03:14.325\n所 以 其 實 本 席 是 要 特 別 提 醒 的 是 有 關 於 國 防 或 外 交 很 多 東 西 可 能 無 法 公 開 來 做 但 是 現 在 如 果 立 院 職 權 行 使 法 的 修 正 再 加 上 國 民 黨 跟 民 眾 黨 所 提 出 的 刑 法 的 修 正 那 麼 這 不 只 是 不 回 答 喔 有 可 能 還 要 有 刑 事 上 面 的 判 決 喔 那 麼 現 在 如 果 說 會 議 主 席 裁 定 是 機 密 才 能 夠 保 留 不 回 答 沒 有 所 謂 的\n\n03:16.370 --> 03:40.186\n虛 偽 回 應 或 或 者 虛 偽 陳 述 又 或 者 是 不 回 應 那 麼 我 想 要 問 的 就 是 外 交 部 在 這 裡 針 對 接 下 來 如 果 這 個 真 的 三 讀 通 過 要 實 施 的 立 院 職 權 行 使 法 的 時 候 外 交 部 現 在 開 始 應 用 了 嗎 怎 麼 來 做 剛 剛 那 個 詢 答 您 聽 不 出 來 有 什 麼 問 題 我 想 在 場 的 人 可 能 也 都 不 知 道 到 底 哪 裡 有 問 題 對 現 在 沒 問 題 但 接 下 來 如 果 這 個 法 規 過 了 就 恐 怕 有 問 題\n\n03:46.172 --> 03:49.113\n部 長 我 的 提 醒 就 是 接 下 來 到 底 那 條 線 要 劃 在 哪 裡 因 為 法 規 上 面 是 非 常 不 明 確 的\n\n04:13.678 --> 04:30.373\n所 以 我 只 能 說 今 天 在 這 裡 認 為 未 來 可 以 私 下 跟 委 員 做 報 告 的 不 表 示 就 可 以 這 樣 回 答 因 為 只 要 發 問 的 委 員 不 開 心 主 席 決 定 那 不 是 所 謂 的 秘 密 就 得 在 這 個 質 詢 台 上 做 回 應\n\n04:31.093 --> 04:59.922\n當 然 另 外 還 有 一 個 就 是 對 於 我 們 民 進 黨 來 講 我 們 從 頭 到 尾 都 認 為 這 度 法 令 是 假 改 革 真 擴 權 但 是 它 依 舊 通 過 了 而 在 這 個 通 過 的 過 程 當 中 在 業 黨 的 委 員 也 曾 經 提 及 部 長 您 在 擔 任 立 法 委 員 的 過 程 當 中 您 也 是 支 持 國 會 改 革 的 所 以 現 在 您 身 為 部 長 了 會 不 會 覺 得 這 兩 者 之 間 有 什 麼 差 異 又 或 者 是 說 部 長 您 當 年 所 提 出 來 的 國 會 改 革 方 案 跟 現 在 的 國 慶 改 革 方 案 相 同 嗎\n\n05:03.061 --> 05:20.545\n那 個 是 屬 於 調 閱 權 不 是 調 查 權 那 因 為 我 們 憲 法 上 的 規 定 不 管 是 司 法 或 監 察 的 調 查 權 有 它 的 專 屬 但 是 我 們 國 會 要 行 使 職 權 也 必 須 要 有 一 定 的 調 閱 權 這 是 經 過 大 法 官 會 議 的 解 釋 那 你 怎 麼 樣 來 充 實 這 個 調 閱 權\n\n05:23.146 --> 05:50.424\n因 為 我 們 立 法 院 我 當 過 立 委 但 我 現 在 是 外 交 部 長 我 不 能 替 別 人 講 話 就 是 我 們 的 聽 證 制 度 可 以 再 做 一 個 怎 麼 樣 能 夠 來 精 進 讓 它 確 實 比 較 像 聽 證 制 度 而 這 個 比 較 像 的 時 候 同 時 也 就 它 在 調 位 上 當 然 就 有 相 對 的 權 利 義 務 所 以 它 不 是 對 人 的 調 查 權 或 者 是 說 因 為 無 限 去 擴 充 所 以 我 們 是 依 照 大 法 官 解 釋 當 時 的 配 合 修 法 整 套 的 啦\n\n05:50.964 --> 05:55.167\n部 長 我 趁 這 個 機 會 讓 你 好 好 解 釋 一 下 因 為 未 來 很 有 可 能 在 野 黨 如 果 不 理 解 認 為 他 們 所 提 的 版 本 就 是 當 年 你 所 提 出 來 的 那 你 可 能 就 會 批 評 這 個 所 謂 換 了 位 子 換 了 腦 子 那 這 個 部 分 我 也 希 望\n\n06:18.504 --> 06:38.807\n外 交 部 因 為 本 身 有 很 多 的 外 交 秘 密 在 進 行 甚 至 有 很 多 的 外 交 的 合 作 他 其 實 是 在 進 行 中 但 無 法 開 誠 布 公 也 不 是 立 法 委 員 可 以 藉 由 立 法 院 的 所 謂 言 論 免 責 權 可 以 特 別 去 把 它 彰 顯 出 來 因 為 這 個 危 害 到 的 都 是 國 家 的 安 全 的 部 分\n\n06:39.147 --> 07:06.210\n但 是 怎 麼 樣 去 細 緻 的 來 做 執 行 ． 恐 怕 外 交 部 是 要 有 所 因 應 跟 討 論 ． 尤 其 是 到 立 法 院 來 備 詢 ． 或 者 是 立 委 要 求 所 資 的 部 分 ． 另 外 我 的 時 間 有 限 ． 我 想 部 長 一 定 知 道 昨 天 ． 有 美 國 的 議 員 來 到 台 灣 訪 問 ． 甚 至 於 來 到 了 我 們 外 交 委 員 會 ． 其 中 我 特 別 關 注 的 這 一 位 呢 ． 是 站 在 我 跟 王 定 宇 委 員 中 間 的 這 位 金 映 玉 ． 因 為 她 曾 經 提 出 了 不 歧 視 台 灣 的 法 案 ．\n\n07:06.630 --> 07:16.812\n其 中 非 常 重 要 的 就 是 讓 台 灣 可 以 加 入 I N F 那 麼 剛 剛 我 看 到 這 個 部 長 的 報 告 非 常 的 支 持 這 部 分 就 是 台 灣 c a n h e l p 要 變 成 是 台 灣 c a n l e a d 那 麼 I N F 這 個 議 題 台 灣 加 入 的 部 分 我 曾 經 質 詢 過 央 行 總 裁 彭 金 龍 當 時 他 告 訴 我 說 很 抱 歉 因 為 台 灣 不 是 聯 合 國 的 會 員 國 但 是 本 席 找 了 資 料 事 實 上 不 是 聯 合 國 的 會 員 國 科 索 沃 他 也 有 加 入\n\n07:34.295 --> 07:58.646\n再 來 是 我 們 都 知 道 中 國 的 因 素 會 使 我 們 無 法 來 進 行 進 入 國 際 組 織 但 是 在 I N F 當 中 我 不 知 道 部 長 是 否 知 道 他 並 不 是 所 有 的 會 員 國 一 起 來 投 票 而 是 有 一 個 理 事 會 而 且 這 個 理 事 會 事 實 上 不 是 票 票 等 值 他 是 依 照 有 一 個 所 謂 的 特 別 提 撥 權 就 是 S D R 他 是 依 照 G D P 以 及 他 的 外 匯 存 底 來 做 比 數 跟 佔 比\n\n08:01.027 --> 08:11.825\n因 為 時 間 有 限 我 直 接 讓 部 長 知 道 在 這 樣 的 所 謂 的 特 別 的 理 事 會 當 中 的 所 謂 特 別 提 款 權 當 中 美 國 他 所 佔 的 比 重 是 1 7 % 言 下 之 意\n\n08:14.537 --> 08:24.985\n美 國 將 一 個 比 重 最 高 的 國 家 會 員 國 支 持 台 灣 加 入 I M F 有 議 員 提 出 來 如 果 這 個 法 案 能 夠 順 利 在 美 國 過 關 的 話 台 灣 加 入 I M F 的 機 會 就 會 相 對 的 提 高 因 為 在 這 個 全 體 的 表 決 權 當 中 美 國 佔 1 7 日 本 佔 6 . 1 4 雖 然 中 國 有 6 % 但 是 我 們 還 有 德 國 法 國\n\n08:38.314 --> 08:51.864\n還 有 英 國 這 些 其 他 的 友 邦 都 可 以 加 入 讓 台 灣 有 機 會 加 入 當 然 我 們 知 道 台 灣 也 許 在 經 濟 穩 定 的 部 分 或 是 金 融 制 度 上 面 是 跟 得 上 國 際 的 但 是 能 多 增 加 一 個 國 際 組 織 對 我 們 來 說 就 是 有 機 會 能 夠 跟 世 界 發 聲 更 何 況 只 要 加 入 I F F 台 灣 的 金 融 人 員 可 以 到 I F F 來 工 作\n\n09:01.091 --> 09:17.930\n這 對 於 T a i w a n c a n h e l p 跟 T a i w a n c a n l e a d 符 合 您 的 相 關 今 天 的 報 告 跟 目 標 所 以 我 想 請 問 部 長 的 是 對 於 M N F 這 個 議 題 外 交 部 有 沒 有 研 究 有 沒 有 後 續 的 動 作 是 其 實 所 有 的 問 題 都 源 起 於 聯 大 2 7 5 8 號 解 釋 被 中 國 給 這 個 扭 曲\n\n09:22.815 --> 09:35.967\n那 這 個 現 在 已 經 引 起 世 界 的 注 意 那 包 括 美 國 所 以 2 7 5 8 2 決 議 只 處 理 中 國 代 表 權 沒 有 涉 及 台 灣 代 表 權 的 問 題 所 以 台 灣 可 以 參 加 所 有 的 跟 聯 合 國 還 有 周 邊 國 家 有 關 的 國 際 組 織\n\n09:38.889 --> 09:53.215\n所 以 我 們 自 己 外 交 部 也 要 有 這 個 認 識 因 為 這 個 是 中 共 在 發 動 法 律 戰 他 透 過 他 的 一 些 鐵 桿 的 盟 友 到 處 在 講 2 7 5 8 是 一 個 一 中 原 則 那 美 國 說 他 的 一 中 政 策 是 盡 量 台 灣 關 係 法\n\n09:55.275 --> 10:20.801\n另 外 再 加 3 個 公 報 或 6 項 保 證 所 以 台 灣 關 係 法 才 是 美 國 真 正 的 一 中 政 策 的 基 礎 所 以 這 個 時 候 就 有 不 同 版 本 了 嘛 所 以 我 們 不 要 去 只 聽 信 一 種 然 後 他 是 為 什 麼 打 壓 越 來 越 厲 害 包 括 在 這 一 次 的 世 界 衛 生 組 織 的 大 會 就 是 因 為 他 只 包 不 住 火 了 嘛 因 為 2 7 5 8 2 長 期 被 壟 斷 性 的 這 個 扭 曲 的 解 釋 啊 已 經 這 個 神 話 已 經 破 了\n\n10:23.436 --> 10:39.905\n所 以 這 全 世 界 都 知 道 台 灣 要 參 加 因 為 參 加 是 符 合 聯 合 國 精 神 這 些 普 世 的 價 值 跟 人 權 比 如 說 我 們 四 個 最 主 要 的 國 際 組 織 沒 辦 法 參 加 都 是 因 為 中 共 而 這 個 都 是 損 人 不 利 己 的 包 括 世 界 衛 生 組 織 國 際 民 航 組 織 還 有 包 括 氣 候 公 約 的 這 個 組 織 以 及 國 際 刑 警 的 組 織\n\n10:45.928 --> 10:49.010\n包 括 其 實 我 現 在 提 出 來 的 國 際 貨 幣 基 金 就 是 R M F 部 長 我 的 時 間 有 限 我 最 後 只 希 望 我 提 出 這 樣 的 一 個 事 實 以 及 陳 述 之 後 我 希 望 外 交 部 能 夠 把 它 當 成 另 外 一 個 你 們 今 年 的 目 標\n\n11:11.547 --> 11:36.822\n包 括 如 何 的 來 積 極 推 動 跟 參 與 因 為 它 不 是 沒 有 機 會 但 是 如 果 把 它 放 進 來 對 於 台 灣 的 金 融 穩 定 金 融 安 全 甚 至 於 在 金 融 上 面 不 要 忘 了 我 們 的 這 個 外 匯 存 底 高 達 有 5 8 6 0 億 美 元 這 對 於 我 們 來 說 都 是 非 常 好 的 一 個 利 器 那 麼 除 了 這 個 之 前 講 到 的 外 交 邦 交 跟 非 邦 交 國 上 面 的 輔 助 之 外 積 極 的 參 與 國 際 組 織\n\n11:38.743 --> 11:38.903\n主 席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.069,"end":0.989,"text":"沒有聲音是不是?"},{"start":39.094,"end":47.499,"text":"主席這個時間我們就不暫停但是等一下就再給我多一點時間"},{"start":61.408,"end":74.897,"text":"好,這個我們委員會拜託以後這個真的有測試的話要協助我們一下,不然的話這樣聽不到,對。可以找個時間到委員那裡做一個比較詳盡的報告。好,謝謝政次。"},{"start":87.655,"end":92.953,"text":"部長這一段發言跟詢答的內容有沒有覺得哪裡不妥當?"},{"start":95.967,"end":101.912,"text":"昨天我在質詢有關於田正四的時候特別提到了那就是參加完520之後那麼這個出席的澳洲的國會議員回去他們就接收到了中國的這個駐澳洲的這個代表處的相關的這個警告信函"},{"start":119.588,"end":132.307,"text":"那我就問了田正志說那除了澳洲之外還有沒有其他的地方田正志回答我說委員那我是不是下一次我在一個比較妥當的地方不要公開我私下跟您來報告您覺得有沒有什麼不妥當的地方"},{"start":134.673,"end":159.924,"text":"一時無法回答是嗎我直接告訴你答案因為剛剛這個放影片已經浪費了大概快兩分鐘是這個未來喔在5月24號修正過之後的立院職權行使法所有相關的外交國防的機密在委員會當中可不是我說了算還得要主席同意是機密才是機密所以說以剛剛那樣的詢答恐怕已經犯了藐視國會罪"},{"start":161.525,"end":164.231,"text":"因為他沒有立刻回答我他得要回去之後才要告訴我"},{"start":167.136,"end":194.325,"text":"所以其實本席是要特別提醒的是有關於國防或外交很多東西可能無法公開來做但是現在如果立院職權行使法的修正再加上國民黨跟民眾黨所提出的刑法的修正那麼這不只是不回答喔有可能還要有刑事上面的判決喔那麼現在如果說會議主席裁定是機密才能夠保留不回答沒有所謂的"},{"start":196.37,"end":220.186,"text":"虛偽回應或或者虛偽陳述又或者是不回應那麼我想要問的就是外交部在這裡針對接下來如果這個真的三讀通過要實施的立院職權行使法的時候外交部現在開始應用了嗎怎麼來做剛剛那個詢答您聽不出來有什麼問題我想在場的人可能也都不知道到底哪裡有問題對現在沒問題但接下來如果這個法規過了就恐怕有問題"},{"start":226.172,"end":229.113,"text":"部長我的提醒就是接下來到底那條線要劃在哪裡因為法規上面是非常不明確的"},{"start":253.678,"end":270.373,"text":"所以我只能說今天在這裡認為未來可以私下跟委員做報告的不表示就可以這樣回答因為只要發問的委員不開心主席決定那不是所謂的秘密就得在這個質詢台上做回應"},{"start":271.093,"end":299.922,"text":"當然另外還有一個就是對於我們民進黨來講我們從頭到尾都認為這度法令是假改革真擴權但是它依舊通過了而在這個通過的過程當中在業黨的委員也曾經提及部長您在擔任立法委員的過程當中您也是支持國會改革的所以現在您身為部長了會不會覺得這兩者之間有什麼差異又或者是說部長您當年所提出來的國會改革方案跟現在的國慶改革方案相同嗎"},{"start":303.061,"end":320.545,"text":"那個是屬於調閱權不是調查權那因為我們憲法上的規定不管是司法或監察的調查權有它的專屬但是我們國會要行使職權也必須要有一定的調閱權這是經過大法官會議的解釋那你怎麼樣來充實這個調閱權"},{"start":323.146,"end":350.424,"text":"因為我們立法院我當過立委但我現在是外交部長我不能替別人講話就是我們的聽證制度可以再做一個怎麼樣能夠來精進讓它確實比較像聽證制度而這個比較像的時候同時也就它在調位上當然就有相對的權利義務所以它不是對人的調查權或者是說因為無限去擴充所以我們是依照大法官解釋當時的配合修法整套的啦"},{"start":350.964,"end":355.167,"text":"部長我趁這個機會讓你好好解釋一下因為未來很有可能在野黨如果不理解認為他們所提的版本就是當年你所提出來的那你可能就會批評這個所謂換了位子換了腦子那這個部分我也希望"},{"start":378.504,"end":398.807,"text":"外交部因為本身有很多的外交秘密在進行甚至有很多的外交的合作他其實是在進行中但無法開誠布公也不是立法委員可以藉由立法院的所謂言論免責權可以特別去把它彰顯出來因為這個危害到的都是國家的安全的部分"},{"start":399.147,"end":426.21,"text":"但是怎麼樣去細緻的來做執行．恐怕外交部是要有所因應跟討論．尤其是到立法院來備詢．或者是立委要求所資的部分．另外我的時間有限．我想部長一定知道昨天．有美國的議員來到台灣訪問．甚至於來到了我們外交委員會．其中我特別關注的這一位呢．是站在我跟王定宇委員中間的這位金映玉．因為她曾經提出了不歧視台灣的法案．"},{"start":426.63,"end":436.812,"text":"其中非常重要的就是讓台灣可以加入INF那麼剛剛我看到這個部長的報告非常的支持這部分就是台灣can help要變成是台灣can lead那麼INF這個議題台灣加入的部分我曾經質詢過央行總裁彭金龍當時他告訴我說很抱歉因為台灣不是聯合國的會員國但是本席找了資料事實上不是聯合國的會員國科索沃他也有加入"},{"start":454.295,"end":478.646,"text":"再來是我們都知道中國的因素會使我們無法來進行進入國際組織但是在INF當中我不知道部長是否知道他並不是所有的會員國一起來投票而是有一個理事會而且這個理事會事實上不是票票等值他是依照有一個所謂的特別提撥權就是SDR他是依照GDP以及他的外匯存底來做比數跟佔比"},{"start":481.027,"end":491.825,"text":"因為時間有限我直接讓部長知道在這樣的所謂的特別的理事會當中的所謂特別提款權當中美國他所佔的比重是17%言下之意"},{"start":494.537,"end":504.985,"text":"美國將一個比重最高的國家會員國支持台灣加入IMF有議員提出來如果這個法案能夠順利在美國過關的話台灣加入IMF的機會就會相對的提高因為在這個全體的表決權當中美國佔17日本佔6.14雖然中國有6%但是我們還有德國法國"},{"start":518.314,"end":531.864,"text":"還有英國這些其他的友邦都可以加入讓台灣有機會加入當然我們知道台灣也許在經濟穩定的部分或是金融制度上面是跟得上國際的但是能多增加一個國際組織對我們來說就是有機會能夠跟世界發聲更何況只要加入IFF台灣的金融人員可以到IFF來工作"},{"start":541.091,"end":557.93,"text":"這對於Taiwan can help跟Taiwan can lead符合您的相關今天的報告跟目標所以我想請問部長的是對於MNF這個議題外交部有沒有研究有沒有後續的動作是其實所有的問題都源起於聯大2758號解釋被中國給這個扭曲"},{"start":562.815,"end":575.967,"text":"那這個現在已經引起世界的注意那包括美國所以27582決議只處理中國代表權沒有涉及台灣代表權的問題所以台灣可以參加所有的跟聯合國還有周邊國家有關的國際組織"},{"start":578.889,"end":593.215,"text":"所以我們自己外交部也要有這個認識因為這個是中共在發動法律戰他透過他的一些鐵桿的盟友到處在講2758是一個一中原則那美國說他的一中政策是盡量台灣關係法"},{"start":595.275,"end":620.801,"text":"另外再加3個公報或6項保證所以台灣關係法才是美國真正的一中政策的基礎所以這個時候就有不同版本了嘛所以我們不要去只聽信一種然後他是為什麼打壓越來越厲害包括在這一次的世界衛生組織的大會就是因為他只包不住火了嘛因為27582長期被壟斷性的這個扭曲的解釋啊已經這個神話已經破了"},{"start":623.436,"end":639.905,"text":"所以這全世界都知道台灣要參加因為參加是符合聯合國精神這些普世的價值跟人權比如說我們四個最主要的國際組織沒辦法參加都是因為中共而這個都是損人不利己的包括世界衛生組織國際民航組織還有包括氣候公約的這個組織以及國際刑警的組織"},{"start":645.928,"end":649.01,"text":"包括其實我現在提出來的國際貨幣基金就是RMF部長我的時間有限我最後只希望我提出這樣的一個事實以及陳述之後我希望外交部能夠把它當成另外一個你們今年的目標"},{"start":671.547,"end":696.822,"text":"包括如何的來積極推動跟參與因為它不是沒有機會但是如果把它放進來對於台灣的金融穩定金融安全甚至於在金融上面不要忘了我們的這個外匯存底高達有5860億美元這對於我們來說都是非常好的一個利器那麼除了這個之前講到的外交邦交跟非邦交國上面的輔助之外積極的參與國際組織"},{"start":698.743,"end":698.903,"text":"主席"}]}}}}