{"id":153336,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153336","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/bbbc431469b8aeba1e78d5190d8920c68c05f44c04a464dbbeba37a180c9b1cd3b970c124de97d675ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王定宇","委員發言時間":"10:17:55 - 10:30:29","影片長度":"00:12:34","會議時間":"2024-05-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第23次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-30","duration":754,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第23次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":23,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-23"},"end_time":"2024-05-30T10:30:29+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-30T10:17:55+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":201,"blocks":[["王委員定宇：（10時17分）部長，你是乾脆就不回座了嗎？你這樣我不叫你也很難，我本來是要叫別人的。","請部長，還有其他所有業管相關的司長，我就不另外邀請，就自動上來。"],["主席：好，請……"],["王委員定宇：相關的人聽到題目就可以上來了。謝謝主席，第一個題目要跟部長討論，因為身為我們國家的外交部部長，也是國家對外的發言人，最近美國大概剩下5個月要選總統，現任總統拜登首次以總統身分在西點軍校的畢業典禮發表演說，裡面談到美國會為臺灣海峽的和平與穩定挺身而出。後來又接著講說，美國是勇於為盟友動用武力來防衛的。他講完之後，大概不到24小時，華盛頓郵報揭露了川普在一場募款餐會，但是它沒有特別點出詳細的地點。川普講的是，美國如果他當總統，俄羅斯入侵烏克蘭，他會轟炸莫斯科，中國入侵臺灣，他會轟炸北京。","這裡面來自美國民主、共和兩黨總統候選人的發言。當然我們知道在選舉期間，會有選舉的用詞，而總統或者總統候選人跟未來組成的administration，它所謂的行政部門還是會有一點不一樣。但是我要請教部長，你怎麼去回應、評論美國兩個一定有一個是下一任總統，我們不介入他們的選舉，但是兩個美國總統候選人的發言，它背後代表的是，這麼講有選票，也就是美國的主流民意是支持這個方向的，那你作為國家的外交部長，你怎麼去回應、評論川普和拜登這兩位總統候選人的發言？"],["林部長佳龍：謝謝委員，其實美國對臺灣的支持是跨黨派而且跨行政、立法部門，特別是臺海和平跟穩定，這從最近撥款法案的通過就可以看到，有三個國家，臺灣是在……"],["王委員定宇：這我當然知道，這個大家可以視為，第一個，美國社會的主流意見，對臺灣的支持大概是主流；第二個，這是選舉活動，所以by partisan，也就是在美國的民主、共和兩黨對這個意見大概也有共識……"],["林部長佳龍：是。"],["王委員定宇：外顯的行為就是撥款法案，臺灣其實是最有高度共識的，從得票數跟討論過程包含麥考爾（McCaul）的發言，但我現在講的是，現在你作為一個國家的外交部部長，這兩個人之中一定有一個會成為未來的美國總統，我們政府要不要回應？怎麼回應？本席現在在外交委員會正式問你這個問題。"],["林部長佳龍：所謂戰略清晰，應該講說戰略越來越清晰，其實美國對臺或對中的政策是建立在臺灣關係法，這個是最基本，然後才有所謂3個公報跟6項保證。過去好像是所謂的戰略模糊，其實還是要按照美國實際上的政策跟臺灣關係法去做解釋……"],["王委員定宇：美國、日本，其實包含北約，他們過去的ambiguity或者strategic ambiguity，它代表的大概是在2013年以前，方便跟臺灣與中國之間的互動保持模糊，這個模糊裡面有一個核心，就是在是否出兵協助這件事情保持模糊，我讓你猜，可是那時候因為中國的兵力遠不及於美國，賭他們不敢challenge、不敢挑戰。這兩年，特別是從川普任內的最後一年到這兩年，在臺灣的安全議題上，就如同剛才部長講的，逐漸走向戰略清晰，不管是前官員或現任官員。但現在這一題我要請教部長的是，你認為這兩位的發言可不可以反映或者是否代表美國行政部門的態度？因為一個是現任三軍統帥，一個是曾任三軍統帥，是不是代表美國對於臺灣安全議題的戰略清晰表明了態度？因為拜登大概已經講了第5次了，他們會出兵協防臺灣，川普是說直接去炸北京，這當然是他習慣的用詞跟修辭。你作為外交部部長，或者我們外交部的同仁，這有沒有代表美國行政部門的態度？"],["林部長佳龍：跟委員報告，我沒有辦法替他們講，不過從這個角度來看，我們是在維持現狀，而且在我們政策延續之下，是中共不斷的改變現狀，出現所謂的新常態，這引起了全世界的緊張，先從安倍首相講的：臺灣有事就是日本有事，其實他最重要的一句話就是，日美安保有事……"],["王委員定宇：這個背景我瞭解。"],["林部長佳龍：同樣美國跟這些第一島鏈國家……"],["王委員定宇：這一題我要結束了，我建議外交部北美司這邊去思考一下，這一題要不要回應，剛才部長講得很好，我們不要替美國政府回應，認為他是首相，戰略清晰等，我們不替外國政府去分析這個……"],["林部長佳龍：是。"],["王委員定宇：但我們政府怎麼去回應美國總統大選的議題，因為現在還有5個月才投票，後面還有大選辯論，這個議題會越來越多，所以我們國家的外交部應該對這個事情要有一個穩定的看法，對我們臺灣國家安全戰略有益的看法，這是我今天提這一題要提醒外交部的。"],["林部長佳龍：好。"],["王委員定宇：第二題是有關眾議院外委會主席McCaul，他昨天來我們臺灣的外交委員會，我印象中他大概是美國第一個外交委員會主席進到我們外交委員會的會議室，以前Ed Royce是到院長室，沒有進到這裡來。他後來到議場外面拍照時也提到這兩天臺灣年輕人的民主抗議活動，他認為這是呈現出臺灣的力量、民主的象徵，他還說臺灣是民主的燈塔，他還直接跟習近平（Chairman Xi）講：這跟中國的香港，也就香港民運跟八九學運、六四天安門不一樣，這是一個sign of strength、力量的展現，他也提到希望民主國家對抗獨裁威脅，美國的民主、共和與臺灣的民進黨、國民黨可以一起合作抵禦中國的脅迫，同時提到國防力量等等，我這邊要具體問的是，他站在韓國瑜院長身邊提到FMF，也就是無償軍援還有軍售的項目，他站在那裡代表美國的兩黨，表達他們會儘速交付。我請教外交部，這算是軍售項目，也許不是你們的直接項目，但是麥考爾是外委會主席，我們有沒有瞭解他所提的儘速交付是什麼項目？儘速是多快？你們有沒有掌握這個訊息？"],["林部長佳龍：過去所有答應的項目，因為是產線的問題，他們對於「儘速交付」的方向是這樣，可是實際上當然有些項目會比較快，有些項目比較慢。"],["王委員定宇：對啦，我當然知道有些項目會比較快，但現在他已經表達他們要儘速交付了嘛！"],["林部長佳龍：是。"],["王委員定宇：他也代表他是by partisan表達這個意見，也許跟美團和國防部或者國安會，我的意思是，外交部有沒有掌握到？有或沒有？他們要交付什麼項目？進度大概是？比方說F-16V會提早半年？海馬斯會提早5個月？我不知道，我剛才是用猜測的，我是說外交部有沒有掌握這個訊息？"],["林部長佳龍：有一些訊息……應該講說，他最主要的目的是臺灣的國會要支持啦！"],["王委員定宇：部長，不方便講就說不方便講，在這裡如果不方便講，我可以尊重。"],["林部長佳龍：這不是美國單方面要不要交付，因為有時候涉及到軍購，這是我們國會的預算，其實他來是by partisan，他希望美國by partisan，臺灣也by partisan……"],["王委員定宇：我們的預算都通過了喔！發價書等都在跑流程，後來因為COVID、又因為俄烏戰爭，還有一些軍火問題，我的意思是說，如果沒有掌握或不便講，我可以接受，我們不見得一定要在這邊討論，但我的意思是說，如果有掌握，能夠讓國人瞭解，當然我們越透明是越好，所以目前外交部有沒有掌握這個訊息？"],["林部長佳龍：我是有看到一些訊息……"],["王委員定宇：可不可以講？"],["林部長佳龍：但因為這還是要跟國防部，還有我們到底哪些項目是……"],["王委員定宇：OK，不便講我們就……"],["林部長佳龍：外電回來跟實際情況還有主管機關……"],["王委員定宇：不便講，基於國家利益，該守的秘密還是要守。"],["林部長佳龍：好。"],["王委員定宇：但我是建議美方跟我們這邊要溝通，適度的透明讓國人可以安心。","我最後請教這一題，可能要我們資深的司長來回答。2021年，本席在這邊提問，當時有掌握到，因為關島越來越重要，關島為什麼重要你知道嗎？以前美方軍售一些項目，他們不方便即時交付給我們，他們會暫存在關島，現在沒有了，因為關島北馬里亞納那邊的空軍基地、海軍陸戰隊基地、濱海戰鬥團基地恢復，新加坡的空軍到那裡訓練。另外，北約不管是印度或者是日本的自由民主聯盟，軍事運籌帷幄的核心之一是關島，所以關島提升他們的防衛力量，也加強周邊相關的島，最近到與那國島等等，都有做一些部署，所以臺灣可以說是第一島鏈的核心，第二島鏈的關鍵點就是關島，中間夾的就是西太平洋跟菲律賓海的北側，這一塊其實是戰略要地，這一塊也是臺灣常講的陰影線後段，也因為這些種種的因素，2021年10月14號外交部在這邊答詢時提到，他們派軍事聯絡組，我們現在美團的軍事聯絡團是在D.C.，但有些軍事聯絡員會在美國的Arizona，那裡有空軍受訓就會派駐聯絡官，那時候外交部把關島的外交駐館關掉，好像過兩年又復館，那時候第一任恢復設館的代表好像是陳盈連，是派陳盈連去嘛！後來國防部也提出應該要在那邊設軍事聯絡官或聯絡組，2021年提出來之後，這個案子pending一直留在美國的行政部門，到現在2024年……","主席，我最後把這個問題問完，請問外交部目前最新進度，有還是沒有，還是被否決掉了？"],["林部長佳龍：因為派駐人員都要臺美雙方溝通，那也不便在這裡多說……"],["王委員定宇：不是，這在國務院已經跑3年了耶！"],["林部長佳龍：因為涉及到駐點，還有一些具體的臺美交涉內容……"],["王委員定宇：他們是沒有回復，還是在討價還價？或者是認為不便，現在到底進度到哪裡，能不能瞭解？"],["王司長良玉：現在還有在進行一些溝通。"],["王委員定宇：所以這個案子是活的還是死的？"],["王司長良玉：還在！"],["王委員定宇：那為什麼花3年？"],["王司長良玉：有一些資訊雙方需要溝通得更具體。"],["王委員定宇：也是要讓我們知道，讓我們跟美國國會議員溝通的時候，我們也可以提出這個需求，因為這個是實質需求，我們在那裡要有一個聯絡組，甚至那邊跟日本相關的軍演，媒體都揭露了，我們是有人員去過嘛！所以那邊要有軍事聯絡官是合理的，怎麼會在國務院pending 3年的時間？這部分詳細的進度，我希望你私下可以向我報告。"],["王司長良玉：好，沒問題。"],["王委員定宇：我們也希望若有需要我們國會外交協助的部分，你們也可以提出來，好不好？"],["王司長良玉：是。"],["林部長佳龍：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來請徐巧芯委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":202,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-23","speakers":["馬文君","沈伯洋","羅美玲","黃仁","陳永康","林楚茵","王定宇","徐巧芯","陳冠廷","王鴻薇","麥玉珍","賴士葆","黃國昌","洪申翰","林德福","邱志偉","羅智強","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林憶君"],"page_start":149,"meetingDate":["2024-05-30"],"gazette_id":"1135301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135301_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第23次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1135301_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"153336","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153336","tool":"pyannote","id":"153336-pyannote"},"job_id":"thz1kfzBa4goJcNd","queued_at":"2024-05-30 11:33:14","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-30 11:34:52","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153336"},{"time":"2024-05-30 11:34:52","msg":"downloading 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席 第 一 個 題 目 要 跟 部 長 討 論 因 為 身 為 我 們 國 家 的 外 交 部 長 也 是 國 家 對 外 的 發 言 人 最 近 美 國 在 大 概 剩 下 5 個 月 要 選 總 統\n\n2\n00:00:29,833 --> 00:00:49,138\n先 任 總 統 拜 登 首 次 以 總 統 的 身 份 在 西 點 軍 校 的 畢 業 典 禮 發 表 演 說 , 裡 面 談 到 美 國 會 為 台 灣 海 峽 的 和 平 與 穩 定 挺 身 而 出 , 後 來 又 接 著 講 說 美 國 是 勇 於 為 盟 友 動 用 武 力 來 防 衛 。\n\n3\n00:00:50,643 --> 00:01:12,404\n他 講 完 之 後 大 概 不 到 2 4 小 時 , 華 盛 頓 郵 報 揭 露 了 川 普 在 一 場 募 款 參 會 , 但 是 他 沒 有 特 別 點 出 詳 細 的 地 點 。 川 普 講 的 是 , 美 國 如 果 他 當 總 統 , 俄 羅 斯 入 侵 烏 克 蘭 , 他 會 轟 炸 莫 斯 科 , 中 國 入 侵 台 灣 , 他 會 轟 炸 北 京 。\n\n4\n00:01:13,496 --> 00:01:38,636\n那 這 裡 面 來 自 美 國 的 民 主 共 和 兩 黨 的 總 統 候 選 人 的 發 言 當 然 我 們 知 道 在 選 舉 期 間 會 有 選 舉 的 用 詞 而 總 統 或 者 總 統 候 選 人 跟 未 來 組 成 的 a d m i n i s t r a t i o n 他 的 所 謂 的 行 政 部 門 還 是 會 有 點 不 一 樣 但 我 要 請 教 部 長 你 怎 麼 去 回 應 評 論 美 國 兩 個 他 們 兩 個 一 定 有 一 個 下 一 任 總 統\n\n5\n00:01:39,557 --> 00:01:40,458\n謝 謝 委 員 其 實 美 國 是 對 台 灣 的 支 持 特 別 是 台 海 的\n\n6\n00:02:07,099 --> 00:02:09,622\n這 大 概 可 以 視 為 美 國 社 會 的 主 流 意 見 大 概 對 台 灣 的 支 持 是 主 流\n\n7\n00:02:27,382 --> 00:02:53,351\n這 個 是 選 舉 活 動 所 以 b y p a r t i s a n 也 就 在 美 國 的 民 主 共 和 兩 黨 對 這 個 意 見 大 概 也 有 共 識 那 外 顯 的 行 為 就 是 撥 完 法 案 台 灣 其 實 是 最 有 高 度 共 識 的 從 得 票 數 跟 討 論 過 程 包 含 麥 考 爾 和 馬 克 歐 來 的 發 言 但 我 現 在 講 的 是 你 作 為 一 個 國 家 現 在 是 外 交 部 長 這 兩 個 有 一 個 一 定 會 成 為 未 來 的 美 國 總 統 我 們 政 府 要 不 要 回 應\n\n8\n00:02:54,929 --> 00:03:17,543\n怎 麼 回 應 本 席 現 在 在 外 交 委 員 會 正 式 問 你 這 問 題 所 謂 戰 略 清 晰 應 該 講 說 戰 略 越 來 越 清 晰 其 實 美 國 的 這 個 對 台 或 對 中 的 政 策 他 是 建 立 在 台 灣 關 係 法 這 個 是 最 基 本 然 後 才 有 所 謂 三 個 公 報 跟 六 項 保 證 那 過 去 好 像 變 成 在 所 謂 的 要 戰 略 模 糊\n\n9\n00:03:18,303 --> 00:03:40,431\n其 實 你 還 是 要 按 照 美 國 的 實 際 上 的 政 策 去 跟 他 的 台 灣 關 係 法 去 做 解 釋 美 國 日 本 其 實 包 含 北 約 他 們 過 去 的 a m b i g u i t y 或 者 s t r a t e g i c a m b i g u i t y 他 代 表 的 大 概 是 大 概 在 2 0 1 3 年 以 前 方 便 跟 台 灣 跟 中 國 之 間 的 互 動 保 持 一 個 模 糊 這 個 模 糊 裡 面 有 一 個 核 心 就 是 有 關\n\n10\n00:03:41,431 --> 00:04:08,674\n是 否 出 兵 協 助 這 個 事 情 保 持 模 糊 我 讓 你 猜 可 是 那 時 候 是 因 為 中 國 的 兵 力 遠 不 及 於 美 國 我 讀 你 不 敢 c h a l l e n g e 不 敢 挑 戰 那 這 兩 年 特 別 是 從 川 普 的 任 內 的 最 後 一 年 到 這 兩 年 那 大 概 在 台 灣 的 安 全 議 題 上 就 如 同 剛 才 部 長 講 的 逐 漸 走 向 戰 略 清 晰 不 管 是 前 官 員 或 先 生 官 員 但 是 我 現 在 這 一 題 我 要 請 教 部 長 的 是\n\n11\n00:04:09,878 --> 00:04:28,355\n你 認 為 這 兩 位 的 發 言 可 被 反 映 出 或 者 是 否 代 表 美 國 行 政 部 門 的 態 度 因 為 一 個 是 現 任 三 軍 統 帥 一 個 是 承 認 三 軍 統 帥 是 不 是 代 表 美 國 對 於 台 灣 安 全 議 題 的 戰 略 清 晰\n\n12\n00:04:29,667 --> 00:04:30,027\n外 交 部 長 林 佳 龍\n\n13\n00:04:47,724 --> 00:05:02,584\n這 有 沒 有 代 表 美 國 行 政 部 門 的 態 度 ? 跟 委 員 報 告 , 當 然 我 沒 有 辦 法 替 他 們 講 不 過 從 我 們 這 個 角 度 來 看 的 話 我 們 是 在 維 持 現 狀 而 且 是 在 我 們 的 政 策 延 續 之 下 是 中 共 不 斷 的 改 變 現 狀 有 所 出 現 新 常 態\n\n14\n00:05:03,765 --> 00:05:25,398\n這 個 引 起 了 全 世 界 的 緊 張 先 從 安 倍 首 相 他 講 台 灣 有 事 就 是 日 本 有 事 其 實 他 最 重 要 的 一 句 話 就 是 日 美 安 保 有 事 同 樣 的 美 國 跟 這 些 第 一 島 鏈 國 家 我 這 一 題 我 要 把 它 結 束 起 來 我 建 議 外 交 部 北 美 是 這 邊 去 思 考 一 下 這 一 題 要 不 要 回 應 剛 才 部 長 講 得 很 好 我 們 不 要 替 美 國 政 府\n\n15\n00:05:26,751 --> 00:05:52,476\n我 認 為 他 是 首 相 戰 略 信 息 我 們 不 替 外 國 政 府 去 分 析 這 個 但 我 們 政 府 怎 麼 去 回 應 美 國 總 統 大 選 當 中 這 個 議 題 因 為 現 在 才 還 有 5 個 月 才 投 票 這 個 議 題 後 面 還 有 大 選 辯 論 會 越 來 越 多 所 以 應 該 我 們 國 家 的 外 交 部 對 這 個 事 情 要 有 一 個 看 法 穩 定 的 看 法 對 我 們 台 灣 國 家 安 全 戰 略 有 益 的 看 法 這 是 我 今 天 提 這 一 題 提 醒 外 交 部 的\n\n16\n00:05:53,056 --> 00:06:16,054\n第 二 題 是 有 關 眾 議 院 外 委 會 主 席 M c C a l l 昨 天 來 我 們 台 灣 的 外 交 委 員 會 他 大 概 我 印 象 中 是 第 一 個 美 國 的 外 交 委 員 會 的 主 席 進 到 我 們 外 交 委 員 會 的 會 議 室 以 前 E d R o y c e 是 到 院 長 室 沒 有 進 到 這 裡 來 那 後 來 到 議 場 外 面 拍 照 的 時 候 他 也 提 到 這 兩 天 台 灣 的\n\n17\n00:06:18,416 --> 00:06:29,651\n連 親 人 的 民 主 抗 議 活 動 他 認 為 這 個 是 呈 現 出 台 灣 的 力 量 民 主 的 象 徵 他 還 說 台 灣 是 民 主 的 燈 塔 他 還 直 接 跟 習 近 平 講 跟 C h a i r m a n X i 他 說\n\n18\n00:06:31,653 --> 00:06:56,201\n這 個 跟 中 國 的 香 港 也 就 香 港 民 運 跟 八 九 六 四 天 安 門 不 一 樣 這 是 一 個 s i g n o f s t r e n g t h 這 是 一 個 力 量 的 展 現 那 裡 面 也 提 到 希 望 在 民 主 的 國 家 對 抗 獨 裁 的 威 脅 美 國 的 民 主 共 和 台 灣 的 民 進 黨 國 民 黨 可 以 一 起 來 合 作 對 抵 禦 中 國 的 脅 迫 也 提 到 國 防 力 量 等 等 那 我 這 邊 要 具 體 問 的 是\n\n19\n00:06:57,521 --> 00:07:25,396\n他 站 在 韓 國 瑜 院 長 身 邊 提 到 說 有 關 F M F 也 就 是 無 償 軍 援 的 部 分 還 有 軍 售 的 項 目 的 部 分 他 站 在 那 裡 代 表 美 國 的 兩 黨 表 達 會 儘 速 交 付 我 請 教 外 交 部 雖 然 是 軍 售 項 目 也 許 不 是 你 們 直 接 項 目 但 是 麥 考 爾 是 外 委 會 主 席 我 們 有 沒 有 了 解 他 所 提 的 儘 速 交 付 是 什 麼 項 目 儘 速 是 多 快\n\n20\n00:07:26,687 --> 00:07:50,243\n你 們 有 沒 有 掌 握 這 個 訊 息 ? 所 有 的 這 些 過 去 答 應 的 項 目 當 然 就 是 能 夠 在 因 為 它 產 線 的 問 題 當 然 現 在 進 速 交 付 就 是 它 的 方 向 是 這 樣 可 是 實 際 上 當 然 有 些 項 目 會 比 較 快 有 些 項 目 會 比 較 慢 對 啦 我 當 然 知 道 有 些 項 目 但 現 在 有 沒 有 他 已 經 表 達 說 他 要 進 速 交 付 了 是\n\n21\n00:07:50,883 --> 00:07:51,764\n外 交 部 有 沒 有 掌 握 這 個 訊 息 ?\n\n22\n00:08:16,890 --> 00:08:35,642\n有 一 些 訊 息 啦 當 然 我 那 個 應 該 講 說 他 的 目 的 最 主 要 是 說 因 為 台 灣 的 國 會 要 支 持 啦 沒 有 這 個 不 是 美 國 單 方 要 不 要 交 因 為 有 時 候 涉 及 到 軍 購 是 國 會 我 們 的 預 算 其 實 他 來 的 是 說 他 是 百 p a r t i s a n 他 希 望 美 國 百 p a r t i s a n 台 灣 也 百 p a r t i s a n\n\n23\n00:08:37,123 --> 00:08:57,195\n那 發 駕 輸 啊 什 麼 那 個 在 跑 流 程 後 來 因 為 C O V I D 又 因 為 二 無 戰 爭 還 有 因 為 一 些 軍 火 問 題 我 的 意 思 說 如 果 沒 有 掌 握 或 不 辯 講 我 可 以 接 受 我 們 不 見 得 一 定 要 在 那 邊 討 論 但 我 的 意 思 說 如 果 有 掌 握 能 夠 讓 國 人 了 解 當 然 我 們 越 透 明 是 越 好 啦 那 所 以 目 前 外 交 部 有 沒 有 掌 握 這 個 訊 息\n\n24\n00:08:58,476 --> 00:09:13,908\n我 是 有 看 到 一 些 訊 息 但 是 因 為 這 個 還 是 要 跟 國 防 部 還 有 我 們 到 底 哪 些 項 目 是 那 個 外 電 回 來 跟 實 際 上 到 底 情 況 這 個 還 有 主 管 機 關 我 也 是 要 不 變 講 我 們 就 這 個 基 於 國 家 利 益 該 守 的 命 令 還 是 要 守\n\n25\n00:09:14,608 --> 00:09:37,776\n但 是 我 是 建 議 美 方 跟 我 們 這 邊 要 溝 通 適 度 的 透 明 讓 國 人 可 以 安 心 我 最 後 請 教 這 一 題 可 能 要 我 們 資 深 的 司 長 來 回 答 2 0 2 1 年 本 席 在 這 邊 提 問 當 時 有 掌 握 到 我 們 因 為 關 島 越 來 越 重 要 關 島 為 什 麼 重 要 你 知 道 嗎 以 前 是 美 方 軍 售 我 們 有 些 項 目 他 不 方 便 及 時 交 付 給 我 們 他 會 暫 存 在 關 島\n\n26\n00:09:39,436 --> 00:10:00,874\n現 在 沒 有 了 啦 但 是 呢 關 島 因 為 北 馬 里 亞 納 那 邊 的 空 軍 基 地 海 軍 陸 戰 隊 基 地 冰 海 戰 鬥 軟 體 都 恢 復 然 後 呢 新 加 坡 的 空 軍 訓 練 到 那 裡 另 外 呢 你 看 北 約 的 不 管 是 印 度 的 或 者 是 日 本 的 這 些 自 由 民 主 聯 盟 的 軍 事 運 籌 與 維 握 的 核 心 之 一\n\n27\n00:10:01,835 --> 00:10:21,375\n是 關 島 所 以 關 島 也 提 升 他 們 的 防 衛 力 量 然 後 也 加 強 周 邊 的 他 們 相 關 的 島 最 近 到 與 那 國 等 等 都 有 做 一 些 部 署 所 以 關 島 可 以 說 是 第 一 島 鏈 第 一 島 鏈 的 核 心 其 實 是 台 灣 到 第 二 島 鏈 的 關 鍵 點 大 概 就 是 關 島 中 間 夾 的 就 是 西 太 平 洋 跟\n\n28\n00:10:22,056 --> 00:10:22,436\n外 交 部 部 長\n\n29\n00:10:42,923 --> 00:10:43,603\n派 軍 事 聯 絡 組\n\n30\n00:10:59,969 --> 00:11:13,364\n我 們 外 交 部 從 關 起 來 把 關 島 的 住 管 關 掉 好 像 過 兩 年 吧 又 副 管 那 時 候 第 一 任 第 一 任 恢 復 社 管 的 代 表 好 像 是 陳 一 年 是 派 陳 一 年 去 嘛 後 來\n\n31\n00:11:14,775 --> 00:11:15,796\n因 為 這 個 派 駐 的 人 員 都 要 是 臺 美 雙 方 溝 通\n\n32\n00:11:42,264 --> 00:11:42,284\n國 務 院 議 員\n\n33\n00:11:58,878 --> 00:12:20,749\n現 在 還 有 在 進 行 一 些 溝 通 所 以 這 個 案 子 是 活 的 還 是 死 的 還 在 還 在 那 為 什 麼 花 三 年 有 一 些 資 訊 雙 方 需 要 溝 通 的 根 據 題 我 們 跟 美 國 國 會 議 員 溝 通 的 時 候 我 們 可 以 提 出 這 個 需 要 因 為 這 個 是 實 質 需 求 我 們 要 有 一 個 聯 絡 組 在 那 裡 甚 至 於 那 邊 的 跟 日 本 的 相 關 軍 演 媒 體 都 揭 露 了 我 們 有 人 員 去 過 嘛\n\n34\n00:12:21,429 --> 00:12:21,610\n國 衛 外 交 協 助 部 長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5791\t27765\t請部長還有其他所有業管相關的司長我就不另外邀請就自動上來就相關的人聽到題目就可以上來謝謝主席第一個題目要跟部長討論因為身為我們國家的外交部長也是國家對外的發言人最近美國在大概剩下5個月要選總統\n29833\t49138\t先任總統拜登首次以總統的身份在西點軍校的畢業典禮發表演說,裡面談到美國會為台灣海峽的和平與穩定挺身而出,後來又接著講說美國是勇於為盟友動用武力來防衛。\n50643\t72404\t他講完之後大概不到24小時,華盛頓郵報揭露了川普在一場募款參會,但是他沒有特別點出詳細的地點。川普講的是,美國如果他當總統,俄羅斯入侵烏克蘭,他會轟炸莫斯科,中國入侵台灣,他會轟炸北京。\n73496\t98636\t那這裡面來自美國的民主共和兩黨的總統候選人的發言當然我們知道在選舉期間會有選舉的用詞而總統或者總統候選人跟未來組成的administration他的所謂的行政部門還是會有點不一樣但我要請教部長你怎麼去回應評論美國兩個他們兩個一定有一個下一任總統\n99557\t100458\t謝謝委員其實美國是對台灣的支持特別是台海的\n127099\t129622\t這大概可以視為美國社會的主流意見大概對台灣的支持是主流\n147382\t173351\t這個是選舉活動所以by partisan也就在美國的民主共和兩黨對這個意見大概也有共識那外顯的行為就是撥完法案台灣其實是最有高度共識的從得票數跟討論過程包含麥考爾和馬克歐來的發言但我現在講的是你作為一個國家現在是外交部長這兩個有一個一定會成為未來的美國總統我們政府要不要回應\n174929\t197543\t怎麼回應本席現在在外交委員會正式問你這問題所謂戰略清晰應該講說戰略越來越清晰其實美國的這個對台或對中的政策他是建立在台灣關係法這個是最基本然後才有所謂三個公報跟六項保證那過去好像變成在所謂的要戰略模糊\n198303\t220431\t其實你還是要按照美國的實際上的政策去跟他的台灣關係法去做解釋美國日本其實包含北約他們過去的ambiguity或者strategic ambiguity他代表的大概是大概在2013年以前方便跟台灣跟中國之間的互動保持一個模糊這個模糊裡面有一個核心就是有關\n221431\t248674\t是否出兵協助這個事情保持模糊我讓你猜可是那時候是因為中國的兵力遠不及於美國我讀你不敢challenge不敢挑戰那這兩年特別是從川普的任內的最後一年到這兩年那大概在台灣的安全議題上就如同剛才部長講的逐漸走向戰略清晰不管是前官員或先生官員但是我現在這一題我要請教部長的是\n249878\t268355\t你認為這兩位的發言可被反映出或者是否代表美國行政部門的態度因為一個是現任三軍統帥一個是承認三軍統帥是不是代表美國對於台灣安全議題的戰略清晰\n269667\t270027\t外交部長林佳龍\n287724\t302584\t這有沒有代表美國行政部門的態度?跟委員報告,當然我沒有辦法替他們講不過從我們這個角度來看的話我們是在維持現狀而且是在我們的政策延續之下是中共不斷的改變現狀有所出現新常態\n303765\t325398\t這個引起了全世界的緊張先從安倍首相他講台灣有事就是日本有事其實他最重要的一句話就是日美安保有事同樣的美國跟這些第一島鏈國家我這一題我要把它結束起來我建議外交部北美是這邊去思考一下這一題要不要回應剛才部長講得很好我們不要替美國政府\n326751\t352476\t我認為他是首相戰略信息我們不替外國政府去分析這個但我們政府怎麼去回應美國總統大選當中這個議題因為現在才還有5個月才投票這個議題後面還有大選辯論會越來越多所以應該我們國家的外交部對這個事情要有一個看法穩定的看法對我們台灣國家安全戰略有益的看法這是我今天提這一題提醒外交部的\n353056\t376054\t第二題是有關眾議院外委會主席 McCall昨天來我們台灣的外交委員會他大概我印象中是第一個美國的外交委員會的主席進到我們外交委員會的會議室以前Ed Royce是到院長室沒有進到這裡來那後來到議場外面拍照的時候他也提到這兩天台灣的\n378416\t389651\t連親人的民主抗議活動他認為這個是呈現出台灣的力量民主的象徵他還說台灣是民主的燈塔他還直接跟習近平講跟Chairman Xi他說\n391653\t416201\t這個跟中國的香港也就香港民運跟八九六四天安門不一樣這是一個sign of strength這是一個力量的展現那裡面也提到希望在民主的國家對抗獨裁的威脅美國的民主共和台灣的民進黨國民黨可以一起來合作對抵禦中國的脅迫也提到國防力量等等那我這邊要具體問的是\n417521\t445396\t他站在韓國瑜院長身邊提到說有關FMF也就是無償軍援的部分還有軍售的項目的部分他站在那裡代表美國的兩黨表達會儘速交付我請教外交部雖然是軍售項目也許不是你們直接項目但是麥考爾是外委會主席我們有沒有了解他所提的儘速交付是什麼項目儘速是多快\n446687\t470243\t你們有沒有掌握這個訊息?所有的這些過去答應的項目當然就是能夠在因為它產線的問題當然現在進速交付就是它的方向是這樣可是實際上當然有些項目會比較快有些項目會比較慢對啦我當然知道有些項目但現在有沒有他已經表達說他要進速交付了是\n470883\t471764\t外交部有沒有掌握這個訊息?\n496890\t515642\t有一些訊息啦當然我那個應該講說他的目的最主要是說因為台灣的國會要支持啦沒有這個不是美國單方要不要交因為有時候涉及到軍購是國會我們的預算其實他來的是說他是百partisan他希望美國百partisan台灣也百partisan\n517123\t537195\t那發駕輸啊什麼那個在跑流程後來因為COVID又因為二無戰爭還有因為一些軍火問題我的意思說如果沒有掌握或不辯講我可以接受我們不見得一定要在那邊討論但我的意思說如果有掌握能夠讓國人了解當然我們越透明是越好啦那所以目前外交部有沒有掌握這個訊息\n538476\t553908\t我是有看到一些訊息但是因為這個還是要跟國防部還有我們到底哪些項目是那個外電回來跟實際上到底情況這個還有主管機關我也是要不變講我們就這個基於國家利益該守的命令還是要守\n554608\t577776\t但是我是建議美方跟我們這邊要溝通適度的透明讓國人可以安心我最後請教這一題可能要我們資深的司長來回答2021年本席在這邊提問當時有掌握到我們因為關島越來越重要關島為什麼重要你知道嗎以前是美方軍售我們有些項目他不方便及時交付給我們他會暫存在關島\n579436\t600874\t現在沒有了啦但是呢關島因為北馬里亞納那邊的空軍基地海軍陸戰隊基地冰海戰鬥軟體都恢復然後呢新加坡的空軍訓練到那裡另外呢你看北約的不管是印度的或者是日本的這些自由民主聯盟的軍事運籌與維握的核心之一\n601835\t621375\t是關島所以關島也提升他們的防衛力量然後也加強周邊的他們相關的島最近到與那國等等都有做一些部署所以關島可以說是第一島鏈第一島鏈的核心其實是台灣到第二島鏈的關鍵點大概就是關島中間夾的就是西太平洋跟\n622056\t622436\t外交部部長\n642923\t643603\t派軍事聯絡組\n659969\t673364\t我們外交部從關起來把關島的住管關掉好像過兩年吧又副管那時候第一任第一任恢復社管的代表好像是陳一年是派陳一年去嘛後來\n674775\t675796\t因為這個派駐的人員都要是臺美雙方溝通\n702264\t702284\t國務院議員\n718878\t740749\t現在還有在進行一些溝通所以這個案子是活的還是死的還在還在那為什麼花三年有一些資訊雙方需要溝通的根據題我們跟美國國會議員溝通的時候我們可以提出這個需要因為這個是實質需求我們要有一個聯絡組在那裡甚至於那邊的跟日本的相關軍演媒體都揭露了我們有人員去過嘛\n741429\t741610\t國衛外交協助部長\n","txt":"請部長還有其他所有業管相關的司長我就不另外邀請就自動上來就相關的人聽到題目就可以上來謝謝主席第一個題目要跟部長討論因為身為我們國家的外交部長也是國家對外的發言人最近美國在大概剩下5個月要選總統\n先任總統拜登首次以總統的身份在西點軍校的畢業典禮發表演說,裡面談到美國會為台灣海峽的和平與穩定挺身而出,後來又接著講說美國是勇於為盟友動用武力來防衛。\n他講完之後大概不到24小時,華盛頓郵報揭露了川普在一場募款參會,但是他沒有特別點出詳細的地點。川普講的是,美國如果他當總統,俄羅斯入侵烏克蘭,他會轟炸莫斯科,中國入侵台灣,他會轟炸北京。\n那這裡面來自美國的民主共和兩黨的總統候選人的發言當然我們知道在選舉期間會有選舉的用詞而總統或者總統候選人跟未來組成的administration他的所謂的行政部門還是會有點不一樣但我要請教部長你怎麼去回應評論美國兩個他們兩個一定有一個下一任總統\n謝謝委員其實美國是對台灣的支持特別是台海的\n這大概可以視為美國社會的主流意見大概對台灣的支持是主流\n這個是選舉活動所以by partisan也就在美國的民主共和兩黨對這個意見大概也有共識那外顯的行為就是撥完法案台灣其實是最有高度共識的從得票數跟討論過程包含麥考爾和馬克歐來的發言但我現在講的是你作為一個國家現在是外交部長這兩個有一個一定會成為未來的美國總統我們政府要不要回應\n怎麼回應本席現在在外交委員會正式問你這問題所謂戰略清晰應該講說戰略越來越清晰其實美國的這個對台或對中的政策他是建立在台灣關係法這個是最基本然後才有所謂三個公報跟六項保證那過去好像變成在所謂的要戰略模糊\n其實你還是要按照美國的實際上的政策去跟他的台灣關係法去做解釋美國日本其實包含北約他們過去的ambiguity或者strategic ambiguity他代表的大概是大概在2013年以前方便跟台灣跟中國之間的互動保持一個模糊這個模糊裡面有一個核心就是有關\n是否出兵協助這個事情保持模糊我讓你猜可是那時候是因為中國的兵力遠不及於美國我讀你不敢challenge不敢挑戰那這兩年特別是從川普的任內的最後一年到這兩年那大概在台灣的安全議題上就如同剛才部長講的逐漸走向戰略清晰不管是前官員或先生官員但是我現在這一題我要請教部長的是\n你認為這兩位的發言可被反映出或者是否代表美國行政部門的態度因為一個是現任三軍統帥一個是承認三軍統帥是不是代表美國對於台灣安全議題的戰略清晰\n外交部長林佳龍\n這有沒有代表美國行政部門的態度?跟委員報告,當然我沒有辦法替他們講不過從我們這個角度來看的話我們是在維持現狀而且是在我們的政策延續之下是中共不斷的改變現狀有所出現新常態\n這個引起了全世界的緊張先從安倍首相他講台灣有事就是日本有事其實他最重要的一句話就是日美安保有事同樣的美國跟這些第一島鏈國家我這一題我要把它結束起來我建議外交部北美是這邊去思考一下這一題要不要回應剛才部長講得很好我們不要替美國政府\n我認為他是首相戰略信息我們不替外國政府去分析這個但我們政府怎麼去回應美國總統大選當中這個議題因為現在才還有5個月才投票這個議題後面還有大選辯論會越來越多所以應該我們國家的外交部對這個事情要有一個看法穩定的看法對我們台灣國家安全戰略有益的看法這是我今天提這一題提醒外交部的\n第二題是有關眾議院外委會主席 McCall昨天來我們台灣的外交委員會他大概我印象中是第一個美國的外交委員會的主席進到我們外交委員會的會議室以前Ed Royce是到院長室沒有進到這裡來那後來到議場外面拍照的時候他也提到這兩天台灣的\n連親人的民主抗議活動他認為這個是呈現出台灣的力量民主的象徵他還說台灣是民主的燈塔他還直接跟習近平講跟Chairman Xi他說\n這個跟中國的香港也就香港民運跟八九六四天安門不一樣這是一個sign of strength這是一個力量的展現那裡面也提到希望在民主的國家對抗獨裁的威脅美國的民主共和台灣的民進黨國民黨可以一起來合作對抵禦中國的脅迫也提到國防力量等等那我這邊要具體問的是\n他站在韓國瑜院長身邊提到說有關FMF也就是無償軍援的部分還有軍售的項目的部分他站在那裡代表美國的兩黨表達會儘速交付我請教外交部雖然是軍售項目也許不是你們直接項目但是麥考爾是外委會主席我們有沒有了解他所提的儘速交付是什麼項目儘速是多快\n你們有沒有掌握這個訊息?所有的這些過去答應的項目當然就是能夠在因為它產線的問題當然現在進速交付就是它的方向是這樣可是實際上當然有些項目會比較快有些項目會比較慢對啦我當然知道有些項目但現在有沒有他已經表達說他要進速交付了是\n外交部有沒有掌握這個訊息?\n有一些訊息啦當然我那個應該講說他的目的最主要是說因為台灣的國會要支持啦沒有這個不是美國單方要不要交因為有時候涉及到軍購是國會我們的預算其實他來的是說他是百partisan他希望美國百partisan台灣也百partisan\n那發駕輸啊什麼那個在跑流程後來因為COVID又因為二無戰爭還有因為一些軍火問題我的意思說如果沒有掌握或不辯講我可以接受我們不見得一定要在那邊討論但我的意思說如果有掌握能夠讓國人了解當然我們越透明是越好啦那所以目前外交部有沒有掌握這個訊息\n我是有看到一些訊息但是因為這個還是要跟國防部還有我們到底哪些項目是那個外電回來跟實際上到底情況這個還有主管機關我也是要不變講我們就這個基於國家利益該守的命令還是要守\n但是我是建議美方跟我們這邊要溝通適度的透明讓國人可以安心我最後請教這一題可能要我們資深的司長來回答2021年本席在這邊提問當時有掌握到我們因為關島越來越重要關島為什麼重要你知道嗎以前是美方軍售我們有些項目他不方便及時交付給我們他會暫存在關島\n現在沒有了啦但是呢關島因為北馬里亞納那邊的空軍基地海軍陸戰隊基地冰海戰鬥軟體都恢復然後呢新加坡的空軍訓練到那裡另外呢你看北約的不管是印度的或者是日本的這些自由民主聯盟的軍事運籌與維握的核心之一\n是關島所以關島也提升他們的防衛力量然後也加強周邊的他們相關的島最近到與那國等等都有做一些部署所以關島可以說是第一島鏈第一島鏈的核心其實是台灣到第二島鏈的關鍵點大概就是關島中間夾的就是西太平洋跟\n外交部部長\n派軍事聯絡組\n我們外交部從關起來把關島的住管關掉好像過兩年吧又副管那時候第一任第一任恢復社管的代表好像是陳一年是派陳一年去嘛後來\n因為這個派駐的人員都要是臺美雙方溝通\n國務院議員\n現在還有在進行一些溝通所以這個案子是活的還是死的還在還在那為什麼花三年有一些資訊雙方需要溝通的根據題我們跟美國國會議員溝通的時候我們可以提出這個需要因為這個是實質需求我們要有一個聯絡組在那裡甚至於那邊的跟日本的相關軍演媒體都揭露了我們有人員去過嘛\n國衛外交協助部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.791 --> 00:27.765\n請 部 長 還 有 其 他 所 有 業 管 相 關 的 司 長 我 就 不 另 外 邀 請 就 自 動 上 來 就 相 關 的 人 聽 到 題 目 就 可 以 上 來 謝 謝 主 席 第 一 個 題 目 要 跟 部 長 討 論 因 為 身 為 我 們 國 家 的 外 交 部 長 也 是 國 家 對 外 的 發 言 人 最 近 美 國 在 大 概 剩 下 5 個 月 要 選 總 統\n\n00:29.833 --> 00:49.138\n先 任 總 統 拜 登 首 次 以 總 統 的 身 份 在 西 點 軍 校 的 畢 業 典 禮 發 表 演 說 , 裡 面 談 到 美 國 會 為 台 灣 海 峽 的 和 平 與 穩 定 挺 身 而 出 , 後 來 又 接 著 講 說 美 國 是 勇 於 為 盟 友 動 用 武 力 來 防 衛 。\n\n00:50.643 --> 01:12.404\n他 講 完 之 後 大 概 不 到 2 4 小 時 , 華 盛 頓 郵 報 揭 露 了 川 普 在 一 場 募 款 參 會 , 但 是 他 沒 有 特 別 點 出 詳 細 的 地 點 。 川 普 講 的 是 , 美 國 如 果 他 當 總 統 , 俄 羅 斯 入 侵 烏 克 蘭 , 他 會 轟 炸 莫 斯 科 , 中 國 入 侵 台 灣 , 他 會 轟 炸 北 京 。\n\n01:13.496 --> 01:38.636\n那 這 裡 面 來 自 美 國 的 民 主 共 和 兩 黨 的 總 統 候 選 人 的 發 言 當 然 我 們 知 道 在 選 舉 期 間 會 有 選 舉 的 用 詞 而 總 統 或 者 總 統 候 選 人 跟 未 來 組 成 的 a d m i n i s t r a t i o n 他 的 所 謂 的 行 政 部 門 還 是 會 有 點 不 一 樣 但 我 要 請 教 部 長 你 怎 麼 去 回 應 評 論 美 國 兩 個 他 們 兩 個 一 定 有 一 個 下 一 任 總 統\n\n01:39.557 --> 01:40.458\n謝 謝 委 員 其 實 美 國 是 對 台 灣 的 支 持 特 別 是 台 海 的\n\n02:07.099 --> 02:09.622\n這 大 概 可 以 視 為 美 國 社 會 的 主 流 意 見 大 概 對 台 灣 的 支 持 是 主 流\n\n02:27.382 --> 02:53.351\n這 個 是 選 舉 活 動 所 以 b y p a r t i s a n 也 就 在 美 國 的 民 主 共 和 兩 黨 對 這 個 意 見 大 概 也 有 共 識 那 外 顯 的 行 為 就 是 撥 完 法 案 台 灣 其 實 是 最 有 高 度 共 識 的 從 得 票 數 跟 討 論 過 程 包 含 麥 考 爾 和 馬 克 歐 來 的 發 言 但 我 現 在 講 的 是 你 作 為 一 個 國 家 現 在 是 外 交 部 長 這 兩 個 有 一 個 一 定 會 成 為 未 來 的 美 國 總 統 我 們 政 府 要 不 要 回 應\n\n02:54.929 --> 03:17.543\n怎 麼 回 應 本 席 現 在 在 外 交 委 員 會 正 式 問 你 這 問 題 所 謂 戰 略 清 晰 應 該 講 說 戰 略 越 來 越 清 晰 其 實 美 國 的 這 個 對 台 或 對 中 的 政 策 他 是 建 立 在 台 灣 關 係 法 這 個 是 最 基 本 然 後 才 有 所 謂 三 個 公 報 跟 六 項 保 證 那 過 去 好 像 變 成 在 所 謂 的 要 戰 略 模 糊\n\n03:18.303 --> 03:40.431\n其 實 你 還 是 要 按 照 美 國 的 實 際 上 的 政 策 去 跟 他 的 台 灣 關 係 法 去 做 解 釋 美 國 日 本 其 實 包 含 北 約 他 們 過 去 的 a m b i g u i t y 或 者 s t r a t e g i c a m b i g u i t y 他 代 表 的 大 概 是 大 概 在 2 0 1 3 年 以 前 方 便 跟 台 灣 跟 中 國 之 間 的 互 動 保 持 一 個 模 糊 這 個 模 糊 裡 面 有 一 個 核 心 就 是 有 關\n\n03:41.431 --> 04:08.674\n是 否 出 兵 協 助 這 個 事 情 保 持 模 糊 我 讓 你 猜 可 是 那 時 候 是 因 為 中 國 的 兵 力 遠 不 及 於 美 國 我 讀 你 不 敢 c h a l l e n g e 不 敢 挑 戰 那 這 兩 年 特 別 是 從 川 普 的 任 內 的 最 後 一 年 到 這 兩 年 那 大 概 在 台 灣 的 安 全 議 題 上 就 如 同 剛 才 部 長 講 的 逐 漸 走 向 戰 略 清 晰 不 管 是 前 官 員 或 先 生 官 員 但 是 我 現 在 這 一 題 我 要 請 教 部 長 的 是\n\n04:09.878 --> 04:28.355\n你 認 為 這 兩 位 的 發 言 可 被 反 映 出 或 者 是 否 代 表 美 國 行 政 部 門 的 態 度 因 為 一 個 是 現 任 三 軍 統 帥 一 個 是 承 認 三 軍 統 帥 是 不 是 代 表 美 國 對 於 台 灣 安 全 議 題 的 戰 略 清 晰\n\n04:29.667 --> 04:30.027\n外 交 部 長 林 佳 龍\n\n04:47.724 --> 05:02.584\n這 有 沒 有 代 表 美 國 行 政 部 門 的 態 度 ? 跟 委 員 報 告 , 當 然 我 沒 有 辦 法 替 他 們 講 不 過 從 我 們 這 個 角 度 來 看 的 話 我 們 是 在 維 持 現 狀 而 且 是 在 我 們 的 政 策 延 續 之 下 是 中 共 不 斷 的 改 變 現 狀 有 所 出 現 新 常 態\n\n05:03.765 --> 05:25.398\n這 個 引 起 了 全 世 界 的 緊 張 先 從 安 倍 首 相 他 講 台 灣 有 事 就 是 日 本 有 事 其 實 他 最 重 要 的 一 句 話 就 是 日 美 安 保 有 事 同 樣 的 美 國 跟 這 些 第 一 島 鏈 國 家 我 這 一 題 我 要 把 它 結 束 起 來 我 建 議 外 交 部 北 美 是 這 邊 去 思 考 一 下 這 一 題 要 不 要 回 應 剛 才 部 長 講 得 很 好 我 們 不 要 替 美 國 政 府\n\n05:26.751 --> 05:52.476\n我 認 為 他 是 首 相 戰 略 信 息 我 們 不 替 外 國 政 府 去 分 析 這 個 但 我 們 政 府 怎 麼 去 回 應 美 國 總 統 大 選 當 中 這 個 議 題 因 為 現 在 才 還 有 5 個 月 才 投 票 這 個 議 題 後 面 還 有 大 選 辯 論 會 越 來 越 多 所 以 應 該 我 們 國 家 的 外 交 部 對 這 個 事 情 要 有 一 個 看 法 穩 定 的 看 法 對 我 們 台 灣 國 家 安 全 戰 略 有 益 的 看 法 這 是 我 今 天 提 這 一 題 提 醒 外 交 部 的\n\n05:53.056 --> 06:16.054\n第 二 題 是 有 關 眾 議 院 外 委 會 主 席 M c C a l l 昨 天 來 我 們 台 灣 的 外 交 委 員 會 他 大 概 我 印 象 中 是 第 一 個 美 國 的 外 交 委 員 會 的 主 席 進 到 我 們 外 交 委 員 會 的 會 議 室 以 前 E d R o y c e 是 到 院 長 室 沒 有 進 到 這 裡 來 那 後 來 到 議 場 外 面 拍 照 的 時 候 他 也 提 到 這 兩 天 台 灣 的\n\n06:18.416 --> 06:29.651\n連 親 人 的 民 主 抗 議 活 動 他 認 為 這 個 是 呈 現 出 台 灣 的 力 量 民 主 的 象 徵 他 還 說 台 灣 是 民 主 的 燈 塔 他 還 直 接 跟 習 近 平 講 跟 C h a i r m a n X i 他 說\n\n06:31.653 --> 06:56.201\n這 個 跟 中 國 的 香 港 也 就 香 港 民 運 跟 八 九 六 四 天 安 門 不 一 樣 這 是 一 個 s i g n o f s t r e n g t h 這 是 一 個 力 量 的 展 現 那 裡 面 也 提 到 希 望 在 民 主 的 國 家 對 抗 獨 裁 的 威 脅 美 國 的 民 主 共 和 台 灣 的 民 進 黨 國 民 黨 可 以 一 起 來 合 作 對 抵 禦 中 國 的 脅 迫 也 提 到 國 防 力 量 等 等 那 我 這 邊 要 具 體 問 的 是\n\n06:57.521 --> 07:25.396\n他 站 在 韓 國 瑜 院 長 身 邊 提 到 說 有 關 F M F 也 就 是 無 償 軍 援 的 部 分 還 有 軍 售 的 項 目 的 部 分 他 站 在 那 裡 代 表 美 國 的 兩 黨 表 達 會 儘 速 交 付 我 請 教 外 交 部 雖 然 是 軍 售 項 目 也 許 不 是 你 們 直 接 項 目 但 是 麥 考 爾 是 外 委 會 主 席 我 們 有 沒 有 了 解 他 所 提 的 儘 速 交 付 是 什 麼 項 目 儘 速 是 多 快\n\n07:26.687 --> 07:50.243\n你 們 有 沒 有 掌 握 這 個 訊 息 ? 所 有 的 這 些 過 去 答 應 的 項 目 當 然 就 是 能 夠 在 因 為 它 產 線 的 問 題 當 然 現 在 進 速 交 付 就 是 它 的 方 向 是 這 樣 可 是 實 際 上 當 然 有 些 項 目 會 比 較 快 有 些 項 目 會 比 較 慢 對 啦 我 當 然 知 道 有 些 項 目 但 現 在 有 沒 有 他 已 經 表 達 說 他 要 進 速 交 付 了 是\n\n07:50.883 --> 07:51.764\n外 交 部 有 沒 有 掌 握 這 個 訊 息 ?\n\n08:16.890 --> 08:35.642\n有 一 些 訊 息 啦 當 然 我 那 個 應 該 講 說 他 的 目 的 最 主 要 是 說 因 為 台 灣 的 國 會 要 支 持 啦 沒 有 這 個 不 是 美 國 單 方 要 不 要 交 因 為 有 時 候 涉 及 到 軍 購 是 國 會 我 們 的 預 算 其 實 他 來 的 是 說 他 是 百 p a r t i s a n 他 希 望 美 國 百 p a r t i s a n 台 灣 也 百 p a r t i s a n\n\n08:37.123 --> 08:57.195\n那 發 駕 輸 啊 什 麼 那 個 在 跑 流 程 後 來 因 為 C O V I D 又 因 為 二 無 戰 爭 還 有 因 為 一 些 軍 火 問 題 我 的 意 思 說 如 果 沒 有 掌 握 或 不 辯 講 我 可 以 接 受 我 們 不 見 得 一 定 要 在 那 邊 討 論 但 我 的 意 思 說 如 果 有 掌 握 能 夠 讓 國 人 了 解 當 然 我 們 越 透 明 是 越 好 啦 那 所 以 目 前 外 交 部 有 沒 有 掌 握 這 個 訊 息\n\n08:58.476 --> 09:13.908\n我 是 有 看 到 一 些 訊 息 但 是 因 為 這 個 還 是 要 跟 國 防 部 還 有 我 們 到 底 哪 些 項 目 是 那 個 外 電 回 來 跟 實 際 上 到 底 情 況 這 個 還 有 主 管 機 關 我 也 是 要 不 變 講 我 們 就 這 個 基 於 國 家 利 益 該 守 的 命 令 還 是 要 守\n\n09:14.608 --> 09:37.776\n但 是 我 是 建 議 美 方 跟 我 們 這 邊 要 溝 通 適 度 的 透 明 讓 國 人 可 以 安 心 我 最 後 請 教 這 一 題 可 能 要 我 們 資 深 的 司 長 來 回 答 2 0 2 1 年 本 席 在 這 邊 提 問 當 時 有 掌 握 到 我 們 因 為 關 島 越 來 越 重 要 關 島 為 什 麼 重 要 你 知 道 嗎 以 前 是 美 方 軍 售 我 們 有 些 項 目 他 不 方 便 及 時 交 付 給 我 們 他 會 暫 存 在 關 島\n\n09:39.436 --> 10:00.874\n現 在 沒 有 了 啦 但 是 呢 關 島 因 為 北 馬 里 亞 納 那 邊 的 空 軍 基 地 海 軍 陸 戰 隊 基 地 冰 海 戰 鬥 軟 體 都 恢 復 然 後 呢 新 加 坡 的 空 軍 訓 練 到 那 裡 另 外 呢 你 看 北 約 的 不 管 是 印 度 的 或 者 是 日 本 的 這 些 自 由 民 主 聯 盟 的 軍 事 運 籌 與 維 握 的 核 心 之 一\n\n10:01.835 --> 10:21.375\n是 關 島 所 以 關 島 也 提 升 他 們 的 防 衛 力 量 然 後 也 加 強 周 邊 的 他 們 相 關 的 島 最 近 到 與 那 國 等 等 都 有 做 一 些 部 署 所 以 關 島 可 以 說 是 第 一 島 鏈 第 一 島 鏈 的 核 心 其 實 是 台 灣 到 第 二 島 鏈 的 關 鍵 點 大 概 就 是 關 島 中 間 夾 的 就 是 西 太 平 洋 跟\n\n10:22.056 --> 10:22.436\n外 交 部 部 長\n\n10:42.923 --> 10:43.603\n派 軍 事 聯 絡 組\n\n10:59.969 --> 11:13.364\n我 們 外 交 部 從 關 起 來 把 關 島 的 住 管 關 掉 好 像 過 兩 年 吧 又 副 管 那 時 候 第 一 任 第 一 任 恢 復 社 管 的 代 表 好 像 是 陳 一 年 是 派 陳 一 年 去 嘛 後 來\n\n11:14.775 --> 11:15.796\n因 為 這 個 派 駐 的 人 員 都 要 是 臺 美 雙 方 溝 通\n\n11:42.264 --> 11:42.284\n國 務 院 議 員\n\n11:58.878 --> 12:20.749\n現 在 還 有 在 進 行 一 些 溝 通 所 以 這 個 案 子 是 活 的 還 是 死 的 還 在 還 在 那 為 什 麼 花 三 年 有 一 些 資 訊 雙 方 需 要 溝 通 的 根 據 題 我 們 跟 美 國 國 會 議 員 溝 通 的 時 候 我 們 可 以 提 出 這 個 需 要 因 為 這 個 是 實 質 需 求 我 們 要 有 一 個 聯 絡 組 在 那 裡 甚 至 於 那 邊 的 跟 日 本 的 相 關 軍 演 媒 體 都 揭 露 了 我 們 有 人 員 去 過 嘛\n\n12:21.429 --> 12:21.610\n國 衛 外 交 協 助 部 長\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.791,"end":27.765,"text":"請部長還有其他所有業管相關的司長我就不另外邀請就自動上來就相關的人聽到題目就可以上來謝謝主席第一個題目要跟部長討論因為身為我們國家的外交部長也是國家對外的發言人最近美國在大概剩下5個月要選總統"},{"start":29.833,"end":49.138,"text":"先任總統拜登首次以總統的身份在西點軍校的畢業典禮發表演說,裡面談到美國會為台灣海峽的和平與穩定挺身而出,後來又接著講說美國是勇於為盟友動用武力來防衛。"},{"start":50.643,"end":72.404,"text":"他講完之後大概不到24小時,華盛頓郵報揭露了川普在一場募款參會,但是他沒有特別點出詳細的地點。川普講的是,美國如果他當總統,俄羅斯入侵烏克蘭,他會轟炸莫斯科,中國入侵台灣,他會轟炸北京。"},{"start":73.496,"end":98.636,"text":"那這裡面來自美國的民主共和兩黨的總統候選人的發言當然我們知道在選舉期間會有選舉的用詞而總統或者總統候選人跟未來組成的administration他的所謂的行政部門還是會有點不一樣但我要請教部長你怎麼去回應評論美國兩個他們兩個一定有一個下一任總統"},{"start":99.557,"end":100.458,"text":"謝謝委員其實美國是對台灣的支持特別是台海的"},{"start":127.099,"end":129.622,"text":"這大概可以視為美國社會的主流意見大概對台灣的支持是主流"},{"start":147.382,"end":173.351,"text":"這個是選舉活動所以by partisan也就在美國的民主共和兩黨對這個意見大概也有共識那外顯的行為就是撥完法案台灣其實是最有高度共識的從得票數跟討論過程包含麥考爾和馬克歐來的發言但我現在講的是你作為一個國家現在是外交部長這兩個有一個一定會成為未來的美國總統我們政府要不要回應"},{"start":174.929,"end":197.543,"text":"怎麼回應本席現在在外交委員會正式問你這問題所謂戰略清晰應該講說戰略越來越清晰其實美國的這個對台或對中的政策他是建立在台灣關係法這個是最基本然後才有所謂三個公報跟六項保證那過去好像變成在所謂的要戰略模糊"},{"start":198.303,"end":220.431,"text":"其實你還是要按照美國的實際上的政策去跟他的台灣關係法去做解釋美國日本其實包含北約他們過去的ambiguity或者strategic ambiguity他代表的大概是大概在2013年以前方便跟台灣跟中國之間的互動保持一個模糊這個模糊裡面有一個核心就是有關"},{"start":221.431,"end":248.674,"text":"是否出兵協助這個事情保持模糊我讓你猜可是那時候是因為中國的兵力遠不及於美國我讀你不敢challenge不敢挑戰那這兩年特別是從川普的任內的最後一年到這兩年那大概在台灣的安全議題上就如同剛才部長講的逐漸走向戰略清晰不管是前官員或先生官員但是我現在這一題我要請教部長的是"},{"start":249.878,"end":268.355,"text":"你認為這兩位的發言可被反映出或者是否代表美國行政部門的態度因為一個是現任三軍統帥一個是承認三軍統帥是不是代表美國對於台灣安全議題的戰略清晰"},{"start":269.667,"end":270.027,"text":"外交部長林佳龍"},{"start":287.724,"end":302.584,"text":"這有沒有代表美國行政部門的態度?跟委員報告,當然我沒有辦法替他們講不過從我們這個角度來看的話我們是在維持現狀而且是在我們的政策延續之下是中共不斷的改變現狀有所出現新常態"},{"start":303.765,"end":325.398,"text":"這個引起了全世界的緊張先從安倍首相他講台灣有事就是日本有事其實他最重要的一句話就是日美安保有事同樣的美國跟這些第一島鏈國家我這一題我要把它結束起來我建議外交部北美是這邊去思考一下這一題要不要回應剛才部長講得很好我們不要替美國政府"},{"start":326.751,"end":352.476,"text":"我認為他是首相戰略信息我們不替外國政府去分析這個但我們政府怎麼去回應美國總統大選當中這個議題因為現在才還有5個月才投票這個議題後面還有大選辯論會越來越多所以應該我們國家的外交部對這個事情要有一個看法穩定的看法對我們台灣國家安全戰略有益的看法這是我今天提這一題提醒外交部的"},{"start":353.056,"end":376.054,"text":"第二題是有關眾議院外委會主席 McCall昨天來我們台灣的外交委員會他大概我印象中是第一個美國的外交委員會的主席進到我們外交委員會的會議室以前Ed Royce是到院長室沒有進到這裡來那後來到議場外面拍照的時候他也提到這兩天台灣的"},{"start":378.416,"end":389.651,"text":"連親人的民主抗議活動他認為這個是呈現出台灣的力量民主的象徵他還說台灣是民主的燈塔他還直接跟習近平講跟Chairman Xi他說"},{"start":391.653,"end":416.201,"text":"這個跟中國的香港也就香港民運跟八九六四天安門不一樣這是一個sign of strength這是一個力量的展現那裡面也提到希望在民主的國家對抗獨裁的威脅美國的民主共和台灣的民進黨國民黨可以一起來合作對抵禦中國的脅迫也提到國防力量等等那我這邊要具體問的是"},{"start":417.521,"end":445.396,"text":"他站在韓國瑜院長身邊提到說有關FMF也就是無償軍援的部分還有軍售的項目的部分他站在那裡代表美國的兩黨表達會儘速交付我請教外交部雖然是軍售項目也許不是你們直接項目但是麥考爾是外委會主席我們有沒有了解他所提的儘速交付是什麼項目儘速是多快"},{"start":446.687,"end":470.243,"text":"你們有沒有掌握這個訊息?所有的這些過去答應的項目當然就是能夠在因為它產線的問題當然現在進速交付就是它的方向是這樣可是實際上當然有些項目會比較快有些項目會比較慢對啦我當然知道有些項目但現在有沒有他已經表達說他要進速交付了是"},{"start":470.883,"end":471.764,"text":"外交部有沒有掌握這個訊息?"},{"start":496.89,"end":515.642,"text":"有一些訊息啦當然我那個應該講說他的目的最主要是說因為台灣的國會要支持啦沒有這個不是美國單方要不要交因為有時候涉及到軍購是國會我們的預算其實他來的是說他是百partisan他希望美國百partisan台灣也百partisan"},{"start":517.123,"end":537.195,"text":"那發駕輸啊什麼那個在跑流程後來因為COVID又因為二無戰爭還有因為一些軍火問題我的意思說如果沒有掌握或不辯講我可以接受我們不見得一定要在那邊討論但我的意思說如果有掌握能夠讓國人了解當然我們越透明是越好啦那所以目前外交部有沒有掌握這個訊息"},{"start":538.476,"end":553.908,"text":"我是有看到一些訊息但是因為這個還是要跟國防部還有我們到底哪些項目是那個外電回來跟實際上到底情況這個還有主管機關我也是要不變講我們就這個基於國家利益該守的命令還是要守"},{"start":554.608,"end":577.776,"text":"但是我是建議美方跟我們這邊要溝通適度的透明讓國人可以安心我最後請教這一題可能要我們資深的司長來回答2021年本席在這邊提問當時有掌握到我們因為關島越來越重要關島為什麼重要你知道嗎以前是美方軍售我們有些項目他不方便及時交付給我們他會暫存在關島"},{"start":579.436,"end":600.874,"text":"現在沒有了啦但是呢關島因為北馬里亞納那邊的空軍基地海軍陸戰隊基地冰海戰鬥軟體都恢復然後呢新加坡的空軍訓練到那裡另外呢你看北約的不管是印度的或者是日本的這些自由民主聯盟的軍事運籌與維握的核心之一"},{"start":601.835,"end":621.375,"text":"是關島所以關島也提升他們的防衛力量然後也加強周邊的他們相關的島最近到與那國等等都有做一些部署所以關島可以說是第一島鏈第一島鏈的核心其實是台灣到第二島鏈的關鍵點大概就是關島中間夾的就是西太平洋跟"},{"start":622.056,"end":622.436,"text":"外交部部長"},{"start":642.923,"end":643.603,"text":"派軍事聯絡組"},{"start":659.969,"end":673.364,"text":"我們外交部從關起來把關島的住管關掉好像過兩年吧又副管那時候第一任第一任恢復社管的代表好像是陳一年是派陳一年去嘛後來"},{"start":674.775,"end":675.796,"text":"因為這個派駐的人員都要是臺美雙方溝通"},{"start":702.264,"end":702.284,"text":"國務院議員"},{"start":718.878,"end":740.749,"text":"現在還有在進行一些溝通所以這個案子是活的還是死的還在還在那為什麼花三年有一些資訊雙方需要溝通的根據題我們跟美國國會議員溝通的時候我們可以提出這個需要因為這個是實質需求我們要有一個聯絡組在那裡甚至於那邊的跟日本的相關軍演媒體都揭露了我們有人員去過嘛"},{"start":741.429,"end":741.61,"text":"國衛外交協助部長"}]}}}}