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10:33:42","影片長度":"00:10:09","會議時間":"2024-05-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【5月27日、5月29日及5月30日三天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-30","duration":609,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-14"},"end_time":"2024-05-30T10:33:42+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-30T10:23:33+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":264,"blocks":[["張委員嘉郡：（10時23分）主席，我想請主委。"],["主席：我們再請主委。"],["張委員嘉郡：劉主委，您從業界出身，與傳統的政治人物不同，您在擔任國發會主委後說，會重新讓大國發會回來。本席想瞭解，您所期許的大國發會要具備哪些功能？怎麼樣才叫做大國發會？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：OK。我希望我們的團隊具備主導性，能夠為國家規劃一個比較好的未來。以經濟來講，我們過去發布經濟報告，但我現在是帶著團隊進行數據分析，找到裡面可以改善的空間，期能讓整個經濟成長都在控制範圍內。"],["張委員嘉郡：過去國發會等於是一個小內閣，簡單來看，每一次委員會的法定出席名單應該是各部會部長，但國發會成立之後，幾乎都由次長，甚至是署長代替開會。不曉得主委會不會希望以後來開會的，儘量還是由各部會部長親自來呢？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是的，這點院長已經指示了，要求各部會部長親自參加。"],["張委員嘉郡：你看上一次的會議紀錄，全部都是代理人，全部都是代理人，證明了政府內部、行政院內部是不重視國發會啊！既然主委有這樣的氣魄、這樣的決心，想要大國發會時代再次來臨的話，就請你務必要求各部會部長親自出席，這一點你能做到嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是的，因為院長已經支持了。"],["張委員嘉郡：另外，剛剛有非常多位委員問你有關於國會五法通過之後，您覺得個人會不會有影響一事。本席一定要告訴你的是，其實國會五法是針對心虛、可能會說謊的官員，像您這麼認真的官員是不會受到影響的，您知道嗎？國會五法是為了讓行政院更透明化，如果行政院做得好，我們也是拍拍手鼓勵啊！這是一個預防性措施，不是要拿來破壞政府官員，也跟任何民間企業、跟人民無關，您瞭解嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：謝謝委員開導。"],["張委員嘉郡：您擔任國發會主委後，您優先推動的政策或是最大的政策目標是什麼？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們最大的目標就是，第一個是產業，我們希望讓經濟更好；第二個是均衡，我們希望讓臺灣的各地發展是均衡的，包括產業。"],["張委員嘉郡：我在媒體上看到您說要推動AI產業成為第二個護國神山，因為晶片跟AI產業的發展對於臺灣非常非常重要，但主委瞭解因此每年而增加多少電力嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：目前的電力需求，依據台電評估，把整體需求、把AI算進來的話，每一年整個臺灣會增加3%。"],["張委員嘉郡：如果每年成長3%，十年就是30%！但核一、核二都已經除役了，主委知道下一座要除役的機組是什麼時候嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：應該是2025年。"],["張委員嘉郡：沒有，是今年7月，今年的7月27日，核三廠的一號機組就要除役了，也就是不到兩個月以後就要停止商轉。再過一年，明年5月17日核三廠的二號機也要停止商轉，到那個時候，我們所有的核能機組將完全停止運轉！在核三廠除役之後，大約會有6%至7%的電力缺口，請問主委對現在臺灣的電力供給有信心嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：目前來講有信心，因為兩個因素：第一，備載有16%；第二，我針對這一點有跟台電再三確認……"],["張委員嘉郡：這16%也不是固定的。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：他有他再增加機組的計畫。"],["張委員嘉郡：我建議主委，針對臺灣電力的實際狀況一定要用心去瞭解，否則您說的口號，就會真的變成口號，而且會變成空談！你說台積電甚至AI產業每年要增加3%的用電量，但我覺得用電跟不跟得上是一個非常、非常大的疑慮。目前經濟部還是以興建火力發電來補缺口，但為了減少碳排，這兩年使用的大部分都是天然氣。主委知道過去三年，我們為了燒天然氣補貼台電多少錢嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這個金額我去查明。"],["張委員嘉郡：您不知道？我告訴你，4,001億！4,001億！你知道4,001億可以再多蓋一座核電廠嗎？知道嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：應該是……我不曉得核電廠的……"],["張委員嘉郡：差不多！沒錯，我們補貼台電買天然氣的錢，足以再興建一座核電廠！本席知道主委對核能抱持支持的態度，不曉得這瞭解有沒有錯誤？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我是沒有反對，但不是支持，這點一定要講清楚。對企業來講，我們要的是安全穩定的供電！坦白講，我一開始就有跟台電談過，台電告訴我依據法令，其實怎麼看都沒辦法解決兩座機組要關掉的事實，這是因為法令的問題。但在這之外，他們備足了足夠的電力！他們再三跟我……"],["張委員嘉郡：其實我覺得你被騙了！你被騙了！你要要求他們不准騙你！你不准騙我們，但他也不准騙你，知道嗎？回去要好好的查明這件事情，到底他們有什麼依據，覺得有信心電力充足？這一點一定要追根究底。","另外，我本席支持您抱持著不排斥的看法，我覺得這是相當理性務實的看法。但我們的院長、行政院卓院長就說，永不放棄追求非核家園。雖然您先前稱讚行政院長非常有理想，但這個想法顯然跟你的想法、你的規劃有所衝突。主委是不是應該拿起喚醒大國發會的氣魄勸一下行政院長，用更務實、更理性的態度來看待核能呢？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我的看法是氫能源可以發展起來，非核家園是做得到的，我們也不需要在這種事情上打轉，因為人民要的是一個乾淨的電，氫能源可以提供乾淨的電，加上風力等等，所以我們應該去努力發展乾淨能源……"],["張委員嘉郡：你如果再說到那個新能源的部分，你知道那還要多少年才跟得上嗎？我覺得你這樣子是不是有一點點太過夢幻的心情啊，主委，我想要發表的是，核能要回歸理性、專業、對國家最有利的方式，而不是因為有人絕食，或是寫在黨章裡面，就成為不可碰觸，或者不可討論的禁忌。主委，你要拿起你在產業的這些實戰經驗，好好的來對行政院要求說，為了產業發展，我們一定要有充足的電力，不要再把核能當作是不可碰觸的禁忌了。","接下來，本席要問的是，國發會的主委需要兼任很多法定的職務，請問你自己瞭解有哪幾個重要的法定職務嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：重要的法定職務，我目前參與到的是花東離島條例，其他的我可能還要再一點時間去瞭解。"],["張委員嘉郡：您同時也是政委，因為組織法明定政委兼主委，然後也是國發基金的召集人，國發基金的代表人就是您，作為國發基金的代表人，是台積電最大的股東，擁有一席的董事席次，過去慣例，這個位置都是由主委擔任，台積電今年4月才公布新任的名單是龔明鑫主委，6月4號的董事選舉，仍會由龔明鑫秘書長來擔任國發會的基金代表，擔任台積電的董事，還是會換成您？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們會更換到我。"],["張委員嘉郡：會更換到你嘛，所以這是確定的。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是的。"],["張委員嘉郡：我在這裡也要向台積電的董事建議，就是我們雲林縣虎尾中科園區已經通過了台糖土地的承租，而且用水、用電的同意函都已經具備，甚至從虎尾、土庫、東勢串起來，高達1,600公頃的台糖土地，用水、用電、用地，事事都具備喔，希望主委可以建議台積電擇址時，能夠順利地來選定虎尾作為它擴廠的基地。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是的，我會找機會表達。"],["張委員嘉郡：謝謝，謝謝主委。"],["主席：謝謝，接下來我們請陳超明委員做詢答，陳超明委員詢答結束，我們休息3分鐘，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":402,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-14","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","邱議瑩","鄭正鈐","呂玉玲","賴瑞隆","鄭天財Sra 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{\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"勢\"}, {\"word\": \"串\", \"start\": 580.239, \"end\": 580.359, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 580.359, \"end\": 580.419, \"score\": 0.434}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 580.419, \"end\": 580.439, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"達\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 580.439, \"end\": 580.519, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"頃\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 580.519, \"end\": 580.54, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 580.54, \"end\": 580.56, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"塘\", \"start\": 580.56, \"end\": 580.58, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"土\", \"start\": 580.58, \"end\": 580.6, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 580.6, \"end\": 580.62, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 580.62, \"end\": 580.64, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"水\", \"start\": 580.64, \"end\": 580.74, \"score\": 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591.723, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 591.723, \"end\": 591.743, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"en\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,186 --> 00:00:14,378\n主 席 , 我 想 請 主 委 我 們 再 請 主 委\n\n2\n00:00:19,014 --> 00:00:38,825\n劉 主 委 您 從 業 界 出 生 與 傳 統 的 政 治 人 物 不 同 請 問 您 在 擔 任 國 發 會 主 委 後 您 說 您 會 重 新 讓 大 國 發 回 來 本 期 想 了 解 您 所 期 許 的 大 國 發 會 是 要 具 備 哪 些 功 能 或 說 什 麼 樣 才 叫 做 大 國 花 費 呢 ?\n\n3\n00:00:40,713 --> 00:01:02,903\n我 希 望 我 們 的 團 隊 是 具 備 主 導 性 能 夠 為 國 家 規 劃 一 個 比 較 好 的 未 來 所 以 我 們 在 以 經 濟 來 講 我 們 過 去 是 發 布 經 濟 的 報 告 但 是 我 現 在 是 帶 著 團 隊 我 們 進 行 數 據 的 分 析 去 找 到 裡 面 可 以 改 善 的 空 間 所 以 然 後 我 們 來 讓 他 的 整 個 經 濟 成 長 能 夠 在 控 制 範 圍 內\n\n4\n00:01:03,703 --> 00:01:26,862\n其 實 我 們 過 去 就 是 國 發 會 是 等 於 是 一 個 小 內 閣 那 最 簡 單 的 看 法 每 一 次 的 這 個 委 員 會 法 定 的 出 席 名 單 應 該 是 各 部 會 的 部 長 但 國 發 會 成 立 之 後 幾 乎 都 是 由 次 長 甚 至 是 署 長 來 代 替 開 會 不 曉 得 主 委 會 不 會 希 望 以 後 來 開 會 盡 量 還 是 由 各 部 的 部 長 親 自 來 呢 ?\n\n5\n00:01:28,428 --> 00:01:35,617\n是 的 這 個 院 長 已 經 有 指 示 了 會 議 要 求 各 部 的 部 長 親 自 參 加 是 你 看 上 一 次 的 會 議 記 錄\n\n6\n00:01:37,028 --> 00:02:03,951\n全 部 都 是 代 理 人 全 部 都 是 代 理 人 證 明 說 其 實 政 府 內 部 、 行 政 院 內 部 是 不 重 視 國 發 會 的 啊 所 以 這 一 點 我 覺 得 主 委 既 然 有 這 樣 子 的 氣 魄 有 這 樣 的 決 心 想 要 大 國 發 會 的 時 代 再 次 來 臨 的 話 請 你 一 定 務 必 要 要 求 各 部 的 部 長 要 親 自 出 席 這 一 點 你 能 做 到 嗎 這 個 是 的 因 為 院 長 已 經 支 持 了\n\n7\n00:02:05,314 --> 00:02:05,454\n國 會 無 法 ．\n\n8\n00:02:20,565 --> 00:02:47,440\n心 虛 有 可 能 會 說 謊 的 官 員 像 您 這 樣 子 認 真 的 官 員 是 不 會 受 到 影 響 的 你 知 道 嗎 這 國 會 無 法 是 在 讓 行 政 院 更 透 明 化 而 且 呢 甚 至 行 政 院 做 得 好 我 們 也 是 給 他 拍 拍 手 鼓 勵 啊 這 是 一 個 預 防 性 的 措 施 而 不 是 要 拿 來 破 壞 政 府 官 員 或 者 是 跟 任 何 民 間 企 業 跟 人 民 都 無 關 您 了 解 嗎\n\n9\n00:02:49,103 --> 00:03:11,679\n謝 謝 委 員 開 導 您 個 人 認 為 擔 任 國 發 會 主 委 後 您 優 先 推 動 的 政 策 或 者 是 最 大 的 政 策 目 標 是 什 麼 ? 我 們 最 大 的 目 標 就 是 第 一 個 是 產 業 我 們 希 望 讓 經 濟 更 好 第 二 個 是 均 衡 我 們 希 望 讓 台 灣 能 夠 各 地 發 展 是 均 衡 的 包 括 產 業\n\n10\n00:03:12,887 --> 00:03:31,387\n是 , 那 我 在 媒 體 上 看 到 說 您 有 在 說 要 推 動 A I 產 業 成 為 第 二 個 護 國 神 山 那 因 為 晶 片 跟 A I 產 業 的 發 展 對 於 我 們 台 灣 是 非 常 非 常 的 重 要 所 以 每 年 增 加 多 少 電 力 需 求 主 委 了 解 嗎 ?\n\n11\n00:03:32,741 --> 00:03:52,879\n電 力 需 求 依 據 台 電 的 評 估 , 他 把 他 整 個 整 體 需 求 目 前 把 A I 算 進 來 是 每 一 年 整 個 台 灣 會 有 3 % 的 增 加 。 是 , 那 如 果 每 年 成 長 3 % , 1 0 年 就 是 3 0 % , 而 我 們 的 核 一 、 核 二 都 已 經 除 役 了 , 主 委 知 道 下 一 座 要 除 役 的 機 組 是 什 麼 時 候 要 除 役 嗎 ?\n\n12\n00:03:54,504 --> 00:04:19,264\n應 該 是 2 0 2 5 年 沒 有 是 這 個 今 年 今 年 的 7 月 今 年 的 7 月 2 7 號 我 們 和 珊 的 第 一 座 居 住 就 要 除 役 了 那 所 以 不 到 兩 個 月 以 後 就 要 停 止 商 轉 再 過 一 年 明 年 的 5 月 1 7 號 和 珊 的 二 號 機 也 要 停 止 商 轉 到 那 個 時 候 我 們 所 有 核 能 機 組 就 已 經 完 全 停 止 運 轉\n\n13\n00:04:20,205 --> 00:04:38,121\n那 所 以 呢 合 三 除 一 之 後 大 約 會 有 6 % 至 7 % 的 電 力 缺 口 請 問 主 委 對 我 們 現 在 臺 灣 的 電 力 供 給 有 信 心 嗎 目 前 來 講 是 有 信 心 因 為 兩 個 因 素 第 一 個 他 備 載 有 1 6 % 第 二 個 因 素 是 我 我 針 對 這 一 點 有 跟 臺 電 再 三 確 認 那 他 有 他 的 計 劃 在 增 加 機 組\n\n14\n00:04:45,439 --> 00:05:02,373\n我 建 議 主 委 啦 , 針 對 台 灣 電 力 的 實 際 狀 況 你 一 定 要 用 心 去 了 解 否 則 您 說 的 口 號 就 會 真 的 變 成 口 號 而 且 會 變 成 空 談 你 說 台 積 電 甚 至 A I 這 一 些 說 每 年 還 要 增 加 3 % 的 用 電 量\n\n15\n00:05:03,434 --> 00:05:03,954\n您 不 知 道 我 告 訴 您\n\n16\n00:05:34,265 --> 00:05:39,153\n四 千 零 一 億 你 知 道 四 千 零 一 億 可 以 再 多 蓋 一 座 核 電 廠 嗎 ? 知 道 嗎 ? 呃 . . . 應 該 是 . . . 呃 . . . 我 不 曉 得 核 電 廠 的 . . .\n\n17\n00:05:50,017 --> 00:06:07,272\n主 委 對 核 能 是 抱 持 著 支 持 的 態 度 , 不 曉 得 這 瞭 解 有 沒 有 錯 誤 ? 我 是 沒 有 反 對 , 不 是 支 持 , 這 一 定 要 講 清 楚 , 就 是 我 們 對 企 業 來 講 我 們 要 的 是 有 安 全 穩 定 的 供 電\n\n18\n00:06:09,133 --> 00:06:09,594\n我 覺 得 你 被 騙 了\n\n19\n00:06:30,063 --> 00:06:45,538\n你 也 要 求 他 們 不 准 騙 你 。 你 不 准 騙 我 們 , 他 也 不 准 騙 你 知 道 嗎 ? 回 去 要 好 好 的 查 明 這 件 事 情 。 到 底 他 們 有 什 麼 依 據 覺 得 說 他 們 覺 得 有 信 心 、 電 力 充 足 。 我 覺 得 這 一 點 你 一 定 要 追 根 究 柢 。 那 另 外 呢 我 是\n\n20\n00:06:46,579 --> 00:07:05,063\n本 席 其 實 是 支 持 您 抱 持 著 不 排 斥 的 看 法 我 覺 得 這 是 相 當 理 性 務 實 的 看 法 那 我 們 的 院 長 行 政 院 卓 院 長 他 就 說 永 不 放 棄 追 求 非 核 家 園 雖 然 您 先 前 稱 讚 我 們 的 行 政 院 長 是 非 常 有 理 想 的 但 這 個 想 法 顯 然 跟 你 的 想 法 跟 你 的 規 劃 有 所 衝 突\n\n21\n00:07:09,764 --> 00:07:36,113\n主 委 , 你 是 不 是 應 該 拿 起 要 喚 醒 大 國 發 會 這 樣 子 的 氣 魄 去 勸 一 下 行 政 院 長 用 更 務 實 、 更 理 性 的 態 度 來 看 待 核 能 呢 ? 我 的 看 法 是 氫 能 源 可 以 發 展 起 來 非 核 家 園 是 做 得 到 的 那 我 們 也 不 需 要 在 這 種 事 情 上 面 去 打 轉 因 為 人 民 要 的 是 一 個 乾 淨 的 電 那 氫 能 源 可 以 提 供 乾 淨 的 電 加 上 風 力 等 等 所 以 我 們 應 該 去 努 力\n\n22\n00:07:36,533 --> 00:07:36,793\n主 席 , 我 想 要 發 表 就 是 說\n\n23\n00:07:53,272 --> 00:08:01,736\n這 個 核 能 要 回 歸 理 性 專 業 對 國 家 最 有 利 的 方 式 而 不 是 因 為 有 人 絕 食 或 是 寫 在 黨 章 裡 面 就 成 為 不 可 碰 觸 或 者 不 可 討 論 的 禁 忌 主 委 你 要 拿 起 你 在 產 業 的 這 些 實 戰 經 驗 好 好 地 來 對 行 政 院 要 求 說 我 們 一 定 要 為 了 產 業 發 展\n\n24\n00:08:15,922 --> 00:08:31,453\n要 有 充 足 的 電 力 不 要 再 把 核 能 當 作 是 不 可 碰 觸 的 禁 忌 了 那 接 下 來 本 席 問 就 是 說 國 防 會 的 主 委 需 要 堅 定 很 多 法 定 的 職 務 請 問 你 自 己 了 解 有 哪 幾 個 重 要 的 法 定 職 務 嗎 ?\n\n25\n00:08:33,936 --> 00:08:36,299\n您 同 時 也 是 政 委 , 因 為 組 織 法 明 定 政 委 兼 主 委 , 然 後 也 是 國 發 基 金 的 召 集 人 。\n\n26\n00:08:50,796 --> 00:09:09,689\n國 發 基 金 的 代 表 人 就 是 您 作 為 國 發 基 金 就 是 代 表 人 台 積 電 最 大 的 股 東 擁 有 一 席 的 董 事 席 次 那 過 去 慣 例 這 個 位 置 都 是 由 主 委 擔 任 那 台 積 電 今 年 4 月 才 公 布 新 任 的 這 個 名 單 是 董 明 星 主 委 那 6 月 4 號 的 董 事 選 舉 能 會 有 董 明 星 秘 書 長 來 擔 任 國 發 會 的 這 個 基 金 代 表 擔 任 台 積 電 的 董 事 呢 還 是 會 換 成 您\n\n27\n00:09:20,896 --> 00:09:40,820\n我 們 會 更 換 到 我 會 更 換 到 你 嗎 所 以 這 是 確 定 的 那 我 在 這 裡 也 向 這 個 台 積 電 的 董 事 來 建 議 就 是 說 我 們 雲 林 縣 虎 尾 中 科 園 區 已 經 通 過 了 台 塘 土 地 的 陳 珠 而 且 呢 也 用 水 用 電 的 同 意 函 都 已 經 具 備 甚 至 從 虎 尾 土 庫 寶 中 東 勢 串 起 來 高 達 1 6 0 0 公 頃 的 這 個 台 塘 土 地 用 水 用 電 用 地 都\n\n28\n00:09:49,842 --> 00:09:51,743\n是 的 , 我 會 找 機 會 表 達 謝 謝 , 謝 謝 主 委 好 謝 謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n186\t14378\t主席,我想請主委我們再請主委\n19014\t38825\t劉主委您從業界出生與傳統的政治人物不同請問您在擔任國發會主委後您說您會重新讓大國發回來本期想了解您所期許的大國發會是要具備哪些功能或說什麼樣才叫做大國花費呢?\n40713\t62903\t我希望我們的團隊是具備主導性能夠為國家規劃一個比較好的未來所以我們在以經濟來講我們過去是發布經濟的報告但是我現在是帶著團隊我們進行數據的分析去找到裡面可以改善的空間所以然後我們來讓他的整個經濟成長能夠在控制範圍內\n63703\t86862\t其實我們過去就是國發會是等於是一個小內閣那最簡單的看法每一次的這個委員會法定的出席名單應該是各部會的部長但國發會成立之後幾乎都是由次長甚至是署長來代替開會不曉得主委會不會希望以後來開會盡量還是由各部的部長親自來呢?\n88428\t95617\t是的 這個院長已經有指示了會議要求各部的部長親自參加是 你看上一次的會議記錄\n97028\t123951\t全部都是代理人全部都是代理人證明說其實政府內部、行政院內部是不重視國發會的啊所以這一點我覺得主委既然有這樣子的氣魄有這樣的決心想要大國發會的時代再次來臨的話請你一定務必要要求各部的部長要親自出席這一點你能做到嗎這個是的因為院長已經支持了\n125314\t125454\t國會無法．\n140565\t167440\t心虛有可能會說謊的官員像您這樣子認真的官員是不會受到影響的你知道嗎這國會無法是在讓行政院更透明化而且呢甚至行政院做得好我們也是給他拍拍手鼓勵啊這是一個預防性的措施而不是要拿來破壞政府官員或者是跟任何民間企業跟人民都無關您了解嗎\n169103\t191679\t謝謝委員開導您個人認為擔任國發會主委後您優先推動的政策或者是最大的政策目標是什麼?我們最大的目標就是第一個是產業我們希望讓經濟更好第二個是均衡我們希望讓台灣能夠各地發展是均衡的包括產業\n192887\t211387\t是,那我在媒體上看到說您有在說要推動AI產業成為第二個護國神山那因為晶片跟AI產業的發展對於我們台灣是非常非常的重要所以每年增加多少電力需求主委了解嗎?\n212741\t232879\t電力需求依據台電的評估,他把他整個整體需求目前把AI算進來是每一年整個台灣會有3%的增加。是,那如果每年成長3%,10年就是30%,而我們的核一、核二都已經除役了,主委知道下一座要除役的機組是什麼時候要除役嗎?\n234504\t259264\t應該是2025年沒有是這個今年今年的7月今年的7月27號我們和珊的第一座居住就要除役了那所以不到兩個月以後就要停止商轉再過一年明年的5月17號和珊的二號機也要停止商轉到那個時候我們所有核能機組就已經完全停止運轉\n260205\t278121\t那所以呢合三除一之後大約會有6%至7%的電力缺口請問主委對我們現在臺灣的電力供給有信心嗎目前來講是有信心因為兩個因素第一個他備載有16%第二個因素是我我針對這一點有跟臺電再三確認那他有他的計劃在增加機組\n285439\t302373\t我建議主委啦,針對台灣電力的實際狀況你一定要用心去了解否則您說的口號就會真的變成口號而且會變成空談你說台積電甚至AI這一些說每年還要增加3%的用電量\n303434\t303954\t您不知道我告訴您\n334265\t339153\t四千零一億你知道四千零一億可以再多蓋一座核電廠嗎?知道嗎?呃...應該是...呃...我不曉得核電廠的...\n350017\t367272\t主委對核能是抱持著支持的態度,不曉得這瞭解有沒有錯誤?我是沒有反對,不是支持,這一定要講清楚,就是我們對企業來講我們要的是有安全穩定的供電\n369133\t369594\t我覺得你被騙了\n390063\t405538\t你也要求他們不准騙你。你不准騙我們,他也不准騙你知道嗎?回去要好好的查明這件事情。到底他們有什麼依據覺得說他們覺得有信心、電力充足。我覺得這一點你一定要追根究柢。那另外呢我是\n406579\t425063\t本席其實是支持您抱持著不排斥的看法我覺得這是相當理性務實的看法那我們的院長行政院卓院長他就說永不放棄追求非核家園雖然您先前稱讚我們的行政院長是非常有理想的但這個想法顯然跟你的想法跟你的規劃有所衝突\n429764\t456113\t主委,你是不是應該拿起要喚醒大國發會這樣子的氣魄去勸一下行政院長用更務實、更理性的態度來看待核能呢?我的看法是氫能源可以發展起來非核家園是做得到的那我們也不需要在這種事情上面去打轉因為人民要的是一個乾淨的電那氫能源可以提供乾淨的電加上風力等等所以我們應該去努力\n456533\t456793\t主席,我想要發表就是說\n473272\t481736\t這個核能要回歸理性專業對國家最有利的方式而不是因為有人絕食或是寫在黨章裡面就成為不可碰觸或者不可討論的禁忌主委你要拿起你在產業的這些實戰經驗好好地來對行政院要求說我們一定要為了產業發展\n495922\t511453\t要有充足的電力不要再把核能當作是不可碰觸的禁忌了那接下來本席問就是說國防會的主委需要堅定很多法定的職務請問你自己了解有哪幾個重要的法定職務嗎?\n513936\t516299\t您同時也是政委,因為組織法明定政委兼主委,然後也是國發基金的召集人。\n530796\t549689\t國發基金的代表人就是您作為國發基金就是代表人台積電最大的股東擁有一席的董事席次那過去慣例這個位置都是由主委擔任那台積電今年4月才公布新任的這個名單是董明星主委那6月4號的董事選舉能會有董明星秘書長來擔任國發會的這個基金代表擔任台積電的董事呢還是會換成您\n560896\t580820\t我們會更換到我會更換到你嗎所以這是確定的那我在這裡也向這個台積電的董事來建議就是說我們雲林縣虎尾中科園區已經通過了台塘土地的陳珠而且呢也用水用電的同意函都已經具備甚至從虎尾土庫寶中東勢串起來高達1600公頃的這個台塘土地用水用電用地都\n589842\t591743\t是的,我會找機會表達謝謝,謝謝主委好 謝謝\n","txt":"主席,我想請主委我們再請主委\n劉主委您從業界出生與傳統的政治人物不同請問您在擔任國發會主委後您說您會重新讓大國發回來本期想了解您所期許的大國發會是要具備哪些功能或說什麼樣才叫做大國花費呢?\n我希望我們的團隊是具備主導性能夠為國家規劃一個比較好的未來所以我們在以經濟來講我們過去是發布經濟的報告但是我現在是帶著團隊我們進行數據的分析去找到裡面可以改善的空間所以然後我們來讓他的整個經濟成長能夠在控制範圍內\n其實我們過去就是國發會是等於是一個小內閣那最簡單的看法每一次的這個委員會法定的出席名單應該是各部會的部長但國發會成立之後幾乎都是由次長甚至是署長來代替開會不曉得主委會不會希望以後來開會盡量還是由各部的部長親自來呢?\n是的 這個院長已經有指示了會議要求各部的部長親自參加是 你看上一次的會議記錄\n全部都是代理人全部都是代理人證明說其實政府內部、行政院內部是不重視國發會的啊所以這一點我覺得主委既然有這樣子的氣魄有這樣的決心想要大國發會的時代再次來臨的話請你一定務必要要求各部的部長要親自出席這一點你能做到嗎這個是的因為院長已經支持了\n國會無法．\n心虛有可能會說謊的官員像您這樣子認真的官員是不會受到影響的你知道嗎這國會無法是在讓行政院更透明化而且呢甚至行政院做得好我們也是給他拍拍手鼓勵啊這是一個預防性的措施而不是要拿來破壞政府官員或者是跟任何民間企業跟人民都無關您了解嗎\n謝謝委員開導您個人認為擔任國發會主委後您優先推動的政策或者是最大的政策目標是什麼?我們最大的目標就是第一個是產業我們希望讓經濟更好第二個是均衡我們希望讓台灣能夠各地發展是均衡的包括產業\n是,那我在媒體上看到說您有在說要推動AI產業成為第二個護國神山那因為晶片跟AI產業的發展對於我們台灣是非常非常的重要所以每年增加多少電力需求主委了解嗎?\n電力需求依據台電的評估,他把他整個整體需求目前把AI算進來是每一年整個台灣會有3%的增加。是,那如果每年成長3%,10年就是30%,而我們的核一、核二都已經除役了,主委知道下一座要除役的機組是什麼時候要除役嗎?\n應該是2025年沒有是這個今年今年的7月今年的7月27號我們和珊的第一座居住就要除役了那所以不到兩個月以後就要停止商轉再過一年明年的5月17號和珊的二號機也要停止商轉到那個時候我們所有核能機組就已經完全停止運轉\n那所以呢合三除一之後大約會有6%至7%的電力缺口請問主委對我們現在臺灣的電力供給有信心嗎目前來講是有信心因為兩個因素第一個他備載有16%第二個因素是我我針對這一點有跟臺電再三確認那他有他的計劃在增加機組\n我建議主委啦,針對台灣電力的實際狀況你一定要用心去了解否則您說的口號就會真的變成口號而且會變成空談你說台積電甚至AI這一些說每年還要增加3%的用電量\n您不知道我告訴您\n四千零一億你知道四千零一億可以再多蓋一座核電廠嗎?知道嗎?呃...應該是...呃...我不曉得核電廠的...\n主委對核能是抱持著支持的態度,不曉得這瞭解有沒有錯誤?我是沒有反對,不是支持,這一定要講清楚,就是我們對企業來講我們要的是有安全穩定的供電\n我覺得你被騙了\n你也要求他們不准騙你。你不准騙我們,他也不准騙你知道嗎?回去要好好的查明這件事情。到底他們有什麼依據覺得說他們覺得有信心、電力充足。我覺得這一點你一定要追根究柢。那另外呢我是\n本席其實是支持您抱持著不排斥的看法我覺得這是相當理性務實的看法那我們的院長行政院卓院長他就說永不放棄追求非核家園雖然您先前稱讚我們的行政院長是非常有理想的但這個想法顯然跟你的想法跟你的規劃有所衝突\n主委,你是不是應該拿起要喚醒大國發會這樣子的氣魄去勸一下行政院長用更務實、更理性的態度來看待核能呢?我的看法是氫能源可以發展起來非核家園是做得到的那我們也不需要在這種事情上面去打轉因為人民要的是一個乾淨的電那氫能源可以提供乾淨的電加上風力等等所以我們應該去努力\n主席,我想要發表就是說\n這個核能要回歸理性專業對國家最有利的方式而不是因為有人絕食或是寫在黨章裡面就成為不可碰觸或者不可討論的禁忌主委你要拿起你在產業的這些實戰經驗好好地來對行政院要求說我們一定要為了產業發展\n要有充足的電力不要再把核能當作是不可碰觸的禁忌了那接下來本席問就是說國防會的主委需要堅定很多法定的職務請問你自己了解有哪幾個重要的法定職務嗎?\n您同時也是政委,因為組織法明定政委兼主委,然後也是國發基金的召集人。\n國發基金的代表人就是您作為國發基金就是代表人台積電最大的股東擁有一席的董事席次那過去慣例這個位置都是由主委擔任那台積電今年4月才公布新任的這個名單是董明星主委那6月4號的董事選舉能會有董明星秘書長來擔任國發會的這個基金代表擔任台積電的董事呢還是會換成您\n我們會更換到我會更換到你嗎所以這是確定的那我在這裡也向這個台積電的董事來建議就是說我們雲林縣虎尾中科園區已經通過了台塘土地的陳珠而且呢也用水用電的同意函都已經具備甚至從虎尾土庫寶中東勢串起來高達1600公頃的這個台塘土地用水用電用地都\n是的,我會找機會表達謝謝,謝謝主委好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.186 --> 00:14.378\n主 席 , 我 想 請 主 委 我 們 再 請 主 委\n\n00:19.014 --> 00:38.825\n劉 主 委 您 從 業 界 出 生 與 傳 統 的 政 治 人 物 不 同 請 問 您 在 擔 任 國 發 會 主 委 後 您 說 您 會 重 新 讓 大 國 發 回 來 本 期 想 了 解 您 所 期 許 的 大 國 發 會 是 要 具 備 哪 些 功 能 或 說 什 麼 樣 才 叫 做 大 國 花 費 呢 ?\n\n00:40.713 --> 01:02.903\n我 希 望 我 們 的 團 隊 是 具 備 主 導 性 能 夠 為 國 家 規 劃 一 個 比 較 好 的 未 來 所 以 我 們 在 以 經 濟 來 講 我 們 過 去 是 發 布 經 濟 的 報 告 但 是 我 現 在 是 帶 著 團 隊 我 們 進 行 數 據 的 分 析 去 找 到 裡 面 可 以 改 善 的 空 間 所 以 然 後 我 們 來 讓 他 的 整 個 經 濟 成 長 能 夠 在 控 制 範 圍 內\n\n01:03.703 --> 01:26.862\n其 實 我 們 過 去 就 是 國 發 會 是 等 於 是 一 個 小 內 閣 那 最 簡 單 的 看 法 每 一 次 的 這 個 委 員 會 法 定 的 出 席 名 單 應 該 是 各 部 會 的 部 長 但 國 發 會 成 立 之 後 幾 乎 都 是 由 次 長 甚 至 是 署 長 來 代 替 開 會 不 曉 得 主 委 會 不 會 希 望 以 後 來 開 會 盡 量 還 是 由 各 部 的 部 長 親 自 來 呢 ?\n\n01:28.428 --> 01:35.617\n是 的 這 個 院 長 已 經 有 指 示 了 會 議 要 求 各 部 的 部 長 親 自 參 加 是 你 看 上 一 次 的 會 議 記 錄\n\n01:37.028 --> 02:03.951\n全 部 都 是 代 理 人 全 部 都 是 代 理 人 證 明 說 其 實 政 府 內 部 、 行 政 院 內 部 是 不 重 視 國 發 會 的 啊 所 以 這 一 點 我 覺 得 主 委 既 然 有 這 樣 子 的 氣 魄 有 這 樣 的 決 心 想 要 大 國 發 會 的 時 代 再 次 來 臨 的 話 請 你 一 定 務 必 要 要 求 各 部 的 部 長 要 親 自 出 席 這 一 點 你 能 做 到 嗎 這 個 是 的 因 為 院 長 已 經 支 持 了\n\n02:05.314 --> 02:05.454\n國 會 無 法 ．\n\n02:20.565 --> 02:47.440\n心 虛 有 可 能 會 說 謊 的 官 員 像 您 這 樣 子 認 真 的 官 員 是 不 會 受 到 影 響 的 你 知 道 嗎 這 國 會 無 法 是 在 讓 行 政 院 更 透 明 化 而 且 呢 甚 至 行 政 院 做 得 好 我 們 也 是 給 他 拍 拍 手 鼓 勵 啊 這 是 一 個 預 防 性 的 措 施 而 不 是 要 拿 來 破 壞 政 府 官 員 或 者 是 跟 任 何 民 間 企 業 跟 人 民 都 無 關 您 了 解 嗎\n\n02:49.103 --> 03:11.679\n謝 謝 委 員 開 導 您 個 人 認 為 擔 任 國 發 會 主 委 後 您 優 先 推 動 的 政 策 或 者 是 最 大 的 政 策 目 標 是 什 麼 ? 我 們 最 大 的 目 標 就 是 第 一 個 是 產 業 我 們 希 望 讓 經 濟 更 好 第 二 個 是 均 衡 我 們 希 望 讓 台 灣 能 夠 各 地 發 展 是 均 衡 的 包 括 產 業\n\n03:12.887 --> 03:31.387\n是 , 那 我 在 媒 體 上 看 到 說 您 有 在 說 要 推 動 A I 產 業 成 為 第 二 個 護 國 神 山 那 因 為 晶 片 跟 A I 產 業 的 發 展 對 於 我 們 台 灣 是 非 常 非 常 的 重 要 所 以 每 年 增 加 多 少 電 力 需 求 主 委 了 解 嗎 ?\n\n03:32.741 --> 03:52.879\n電 力 需 求 依 據 台 電 的 評 估 , 他 把 他 整 個 整 體 需 求 目 前 把 A I 算 進 來 是 每 一 年 整 個 台 灣 會 有 3 % 的 增 加 。 是 , 那 如 果 每 年 成 長 3 % , 1 0 年 就 是 3 0 % , 而 我 們 的 核 一 、 核 二 都 已 經 除 役 了 , 主 委 知 道 下 一 座 要 除 役 的 機 組 是 什 麼 時 候 要 除 役 嗎 ?\n\n03:54.504 --> 04:19.264\n應 該 是 2 0 2 5 年 沒 有 是 這 個 今 年 今 年 的 7 月 今 年 的 7 月 2 7 號 我 們 和 珊 的 第 一 座 居 住 就 要 除 役 了 那 所 以 不 到 兩 個 月 以 後 就 要 停 止 商 轉 再 過 一 年 明 年 的 5 月 1 7 號 和 珊 的 二 號 機 也 要 停 止 商 轉 到 那 個 時 候 我 們 所 有 核 能 機 組 就 已 經 完 全 停 止 運 轉\n\n04:20.205 --> 04:38.121\n那 所 以 呢 合 三 除 一 之 後 大 約 會 有 6 % 至 7 % 的 電 力 缺 口 請 問 主 委 對 我 們 現 在 臺 灣 的 電 力 供 給 有 信 心 嗎 目 前 來 講 是 有 信 心 因 為 兩 個 因 素 第 一 個 他 備 載 有 1 6 % 第 二 個 因 素 是 我 我 針 對 這 一 點 有 跟 臺 電 再 三 確 認 那 他 有 他 的 計 劃 在 增 加 機 組\n\n04:45.439 --> 05:02.373\n我 建 議 主 委 啦 , 針 對 台 灣 電 力 的 實 際 狀 況 你 一 定 要 用 心 去 了 解 否 則 您 說 的 口 號 就 會 真 的 變 成 口 號 而 且 會 變 成 空 談 你 說 台 積 電 甚 至 A I 這 一 些 說 每 年 還 要 增 加 3 % 的 用 電 量\n\n05:03.434 --> 05:03.954\n您 不 知 道 我 告 訴 您\n\n05:34.265 --> 05:39.153\n四 千 零 一 億 你 知 道 四 千 零 一 億 可 以 再 多 蓋 一 座 核 電 廠 嗎 ? 知 道 嗎 ? 呃 . . . 應 該 是 . . . 呃 . . . 我 不 曉 得 核 電 廠 的 . . .\n\n05:50.017 --> 06:07.272\n主 委 對 核 能 是 抱 持 著 支 持 的 態 度 , 不 曉 得 這 瞭 解 有 沒 有 錯 誤 ? 我 是 沒 有 反 對 , 不 是 支 持 , 這 一 定 要 講 清 楚 , 就 是 我 們 對 企 業 來 講 我 們 要 的 是 有 安 全 穩 定 的 供 電\n\n06:09.133 --> 06:09.594\n我 覺 得 你 被 騙 了\n\n06:30.063 --> 06:45.538\n你 也 要 求 他 們 不 准 騙 你 。 你 不 准 騙 我 們 , 他 也 不 准 騙 你 知 道 嗎 ? 回 去 要 好 好 的 查 明 這 件 事 情 。 到 底 他 們 有 什 麼 依 據 覺 得 說 他 們 覺 得 有 信 心 、 電 力 充 足 。 我 覺 得 這 一 點 你 一 定 要 追 根 究 柢 。 那 另 外 呢 我 是\n\n06:46.579 --> 07:05.063\n本 席 其 實 是 支 持 您 抱 持 著 不 排 斥 的 看 法 我 覺 得 這 是 相 當 理 性 務 實 的 看 法 那 我 們 的 院 長 行 政 院 卓 院 長 他 就 說 永 不 放 棄 追 求 非 核 家 園 雖 然 您 先 前 稱 讚 我 們 的 行 政 院 長 是 非 常 有 理 想 的 但 這 個 想 法 顯 然 跟 你 的 想 法 跟 你 的 規 劃 有 所 衝 突\n\n07:09.764 --> 07:36.113\n主 委 , 你 是 不 是 應 該 拿 起 要 喚 醒 大 國 發 會 這 樣 子 的 氣 魄 去 勸 一 下 行 政 院 長 用 更 務 實 、 更 理 性 的 態 度 來 看 待 核 能 呢 ? 我 的 看 法 是 氫 能 源 可 以 發 展 起 來 非 核 家 園 是 做 得 到 的 那 我 們 也 不 需 要 在 這 種 事 情 上 面 去 打 轉 因 為 人 民 要 的 是 一 個 乾 淨 的 電 那 氫 能 源 可 以 提 供 乾 淨 的 電 加 上 風 力 等 等 所 以 我 們 應 該 去 努 力\n\n07:36.533 --> 07:36.793\n主 席 , 我 想 要 發 表 就 是 說\n\n07:53.272 --> 08:01.736\n這 個 核 能 要 回 歸 理 性 專 業 對 國 家 最 有 利 的 方 式 而 不 是 因 為 有 人 絕 食 或 是 寫 在 黨 章 裡 面 就 成 為 不 可 碰 觸 或 者 不 可 討 論 的 禁 忌 主 委 你 要 拿 起 你 在 產 業 的 這 些 實 戰 經 驗 好 好 地 來 對 行 政 院 要 求 說 我 們 一 定 要 為 了 產 業 發 展\n\n08:15.922 --> 08:31.453\n要 有 充 足 的 電 力 不 要 再 把 核 能 當 作 是 不 可 碰 觸 的 禁 忌 了 那 接 下 來 本 席 問 就 是 說 國 防 會 的 主 委 需 要 堅 定 很 多 法 定 的 職 務 請 問 你 自 己 了 解 有 哪 幾 個 重 要 的 法 定 職 務 嗎 ?\n\n08:33.936 --> 08:36.299\n您 同 時 也 是 政 委 , 因 為 組 織 法 明 定 政 委 兼 主 委 , 然 後 也 是 國 發 基 金 的 召 集 人 。\n\n08:50.796 --> 09:09.689\n國 發 基 金 的 代 表 人 就 是 您 作 為 國 發 基 金 就 是 代 表 人 台 積 電 最 大 的 股 東 擁 有 一 席 的 董 事 席 次 那 過 去 慣 例 這 個 位 置 都 是 由 主 委 擔 任 那 台 積 電 今 年 4 月 才 公 布 新 任 的 這 個 名 單 是 董 明 星 主 委 那 6 月 4 號 的 董 事 選 舉 能 會 有 董 明 星 秘 書 長 來 擔 任 國 發 會 的 這 個 基 金 代 表 擔 任 台 積 電 的 董 事 呢 還 是 會 換 成 您\n\n09:20.896 --> 09:40.820\n我 們 會 更 換 到 我 會 更 換 到 你 嗎 所 以 這 是 確 定 的 那 我 在 這 裡 也 向 這 個 台 積 電 的 董 事 來 建 議 就 是 說 我 們 雲 林 縣 虎 尾 中 科 園 區 已 經 通 過 了 台 塘 土 地 的 陳 珠 而 且 呢 也 用 水 用 電 的 同 意 函 都 已 經 具 備 甚 至 從 虎 尾 土 庫 寶 中 東 勢 串 起 來 高 達 1 6 0 0 公 頃 的 這 個 台 塘 土 地 用 水 用 電 用 地 都\n\n09:49.842 --> 09:51.743\n是 的 , 我 會 找 機 會 表 達 謝 謝 , 謝 謝 主 委 好 謝 謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.186,"end":14.378,"text":"主席,我想請主委我們再請主委"},{"start":19.014,"end":38.825,"text":"劉主委您從業界出生與傳統的政治人物不同請問您在擔任國發會主委後您說您會重新讓大國發回來本期想了解您所期許的大國發會是要具備哪些功能或說什麼樣才叫做大國花費呢?"},{"start":40.713,"end":62.903,"text":"我希望我們的團隊是具備主導性能夠為國家規劃一個比較好的未來所以我們在以經濟來講我們過去是發布經濟的報告但是我現在是帶著團隊我們進行數據的分析去找到裡面可以改善的空間所以然後我們來讓他的整個經濟成長能夠在控制範圍內"},{"start":63.703,"end":86.862,"text":"其實我們過去就是國發會是等於是一個小內閣那最簡單的看法每一次的這個委員會法定的出席名單應該是各部會的部長但國發會成立之後幾乎都是由次長甚至是署長來代替開會不曉得主委會不會希望以後來開會盡量還是由各部的部長親自來呢?"},{"start":88.428,"end":95.617,"text":"是的 這個院長已經有指示了會議要求各部的部長親自參加是 你看上一次的會議記錄"},{"start":97.028,"end":123.951,"text":"全部都是代理人全部都是代理人證明說其實政府內部、行政院內部是不重視國發會的啊所以這一點我覺得主委既然有這樣子的氣魄有這樣的決心想要大國發會的時代再次來臨的話請你一定務必要要求各部的部長要親自出席這一點你能做到嗎這個是的因為院長已經支持了"},{"start":125.314,"end":125.454,"text":"國會無法．"},{"start":140.565,"end":167.44,"text":"心虛有可能會說謊的官員像您這樣子認真的官員是不會受到影響的你知道嗎這國會無法是在讓行政院更透明化而且呢甚至行政院做得好我們也是給他拍拍手鼓勵啊這是一個預防性的措施而不是要拿來破壞政府官員或者是跟任何民間企業跟人民都無關您了解嗎"},{"start":169.103,"end":191.679,"text":"謝謝委員開導您個人認為擔任國發會主委後您優先推動的政策或者是最大的政策目標是什麼?我們最大的目標就是第一個是產業我們希望讓經濟更好第二個是均衡我們希望讓台灣能夠各地發展是均衡的包括產業"},{"start":192.887,"end":211.387,"text":"是,那我在媒體上看到說您有在說要推動AI產業成為第二個護國神山那因為晶片跟AI產業的發展對於我們台灣是非常非常的重要所以每年增加多少電力需求主委了解嗎?"},{"start":212.741,"end":232.879,"text":"電力需求依據台電的評估,他把他整個整體需求目前把AI算進來是每一年整個台灣會有3%的增加。是,那如果每年成長3%,10年就是30%,而我們的核一、核二都已經除役了,主委知道下一座要除役的機組是什麼時候要除役嗎?"},{"start":234.504,"end":259.264,"text":"應該是2025年沒有是這個今年今年的7月今年的7月27號我們和珊的第一座居住就要除役了那所以不到兩個月以後就要停止商轉再過一年明年的5月17號和珊的二號機也要停止商轉到那個時候我們所有核能機組就已經完全停止運轉"},{"start":260.205,"end":278.121,"text":"那所以呢合三除一之後大約會有6%至7%的電力缺口請問主委對我們現在臺灣的電力供給有信心嗎目前來講是有信心因為兩個因素第一個他備載有16%第二個因素是我我針對這一點有跟臺電再三確認那他有他的計劃在增加機組"},{"start":285.439,"end":302.373,"text":"我建議主委啦,針對台灣電力的實際狀況你一定要用心去了解否則您說的口號就會真的變成口號而且會變成空談你說台積電甚至AI這一些說每年還要增加3%的用電量"},{"start":303.434,"end":303.954,"text":"您不知道我告訴您"},{"start":334.265,"end":339.153,"text":"四千零一億你知道四千零一億可以再多蓋一座核電廠嗎?知道嗎?呃...應該是...呃...我不曉得核電廠的..."},{"start":350.017,"end":367.272,"text":"主委對核能是抱持著支持的態度,不曉得這瞭解有沒有錯誤?我是沒有反對,不是支持,這一定要講清楚,就是我們對企業來講我們要的是有安全穩定的供電"},{"start":369.133,"end":369.594,"text":"我覺得你被騙了"},{"start":390.063,"end":405.538,"text":"你也要求他們不准騙你。你不准騙我們,他也不准騙你知道嗎?回去要好好的查明這件事情。到底他們有什麼依據覺得說他們覺得有信心、電力充足。我覺得這一點你一定要追根究柢。那另外呢我是"},{"start":406.579,"end":425.063,"text":"本席其實是支持您抱持著不排斥的看法我覺得這是相當理性務實的看法那我們的院長行政院卓院長他就說永不放棄追求非核家園雖然您先前稱讚我們的行政院長是非常有理想的但這個想法顯然跟你的想法跟你的規劃有所衝突"},{"start":429.764,"end":456.113,"text":"主委,你是不是應該拿起要喚醒大國發會這樣子的氣魄去勸一下行政院長用更務實、更理性的態度來看待核能呢?我的看法是氫能源可以發展起來非核家園是做得到的那我們也不需要在這種事情上面去打轉因為人民要的是一個乾淨的電那氫能源可以提供乾淨的電加上風力等等所以我們應該去努力"},{"start":456.533,"end":456.793,"text":"主席,我想要發表就是說"},{"start":473.272,"end":481.736,"text":"這個核能要回歸理性專業對國家最有利的方式而不是因為有人絕食或是寫在黨章裡面就成為不可碰觸或者不可討論的禁忌主委你要拿起你在產業的這些實戰經驗好好地來對行政院要求說我們一定要為了產業發展"},{"start":495.922,"end":511.453,"text":"要有充足的電力不要再把核能當作是不可碰觸的禁忌了那接下來本席問就是說國防會的主委需要堅定很多法定的職務請問你自己了解有哪幾個重要的法定職務嗎?"},{"start":513.936,"end":516.299,"text":"您同時也是政委,因為組織法明定政委兼主委,然後也是國發基金的召集人。"},{"start":530.796,"end":549.689,"text":"國發基金的代表人就是您作為國發基金就是代表人台積電最大的股東擁有一席的董事席次那過去慣例這個位置都是由主委擔任那台積電今年4月才公布新任的這個名單是董明星主委那6月4號的董事選舉能會有董明星秘書長來擔任國發會的這個基金代表擔任台積電的董事呢還是會換成您"},{"start":560.896,"end":580.82,"text":"我們會更換到我會更換到你嗎所以這是確定的那我在這裡也向這個台積電的董事來建議就是說我們雲林縣虎尾中科園區已經通過了台塘土地的陳珠而且呢也用水用電的同意函都已經具備甚至從虎尾土庫寶中東勢串起來高達1600公頃的這個台塘土地用水用電用地都"},{"start":589.842,"end":591.743,"text":"是的,我會找機會表達謝謝,謝謝主委好 謝謝"}]}}}}