{"id":153349,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153349","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/bbbc431469b8aebaa3628e53d707ba928c05f44c04a464dbbeba37a180c9b1cdd2a2c3f3bcd966965ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳冠廷","委員發言時間":"10:41:43 - 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normal，新的一個常態將會改變整個世界的秩序，過去也許人家覺得這只是兩岸問題，臺灣要去面對，可是現在發現這是中國有問題，世界要來面對，所以我覺得臺灣是順著這個國際趨勢來講，中共不只是對臺灣有主權的野心，它在整個擴張上面已經引起世界的反應。"],["陳委員冠廷：謝謝部長，講得非常好。我必須再強調，剛才部長提到新的現狀，也就是中國現在要打破均勢，中國不要維持現狀，但在這個狀況之下，過去臺灣都是在中國的框架之下被討論，所以你看在馬英九前總統時期，甚至在更早之前的陳水扁前總統時期，只要談到臺灣，大概就是在中國的框架之下，所以臺灣沒有本身的主體性，沒有談到臺灣的產業、沒有談到臺灣的經濟、沒有談到臺灣的文化，現在剛好是一個既是最大的挑戰，也是最大的機會，所以我們很希望外交部能夠扮演起更重要的角色。因為我們剛才提到的，包含部長講的，你從法律開始講，你從過去的國際條約開始講，你從每一個訊息開始說，因為我們要面對中國的挑戰就是訊息戰、法律戰、金融戰，甚至是所有的論述我們都要做好準備。","在中共非戰爭脅迫行動裡面的策略，還有一個重點，就是用廣泛的宣傳降低美國公眾和政治領袖支持臺灣的意願。這個部分我想部長昨天拜訪我們辦公室的時候也有提到，跟國會參眾議員之間的互動之外，跟行政系統上面的互動，部長可不可以解釋一下，或者是反映一下，怎麼樣反制降低美國公眾和政治領袖支持臺灣的意願？"],["林部長佳龍：其實中共是拿臺灣對全世界發動了所謂的三戰：法律戰、心理戰跟輿論戰，透過它現在數位極權所掌控的科技，它也進行長臂的管轄甚至要統治，所以這個已經侵犯到很多國家的內政，跟他們對於基本人權的保障。在這種情況之下，我覺得臺灣在面對他們所謂的灰色地帶作戰或是認知作戰的時候，臺灣的經驗很寶貴，全世界都想學。譬如說中國跟俄羅斯，中國就在教俄羅斯怎麼樣透過俄烏戰爭之後背離歐美，這種所謂的認知作戰。臺灣是遭受他們攻擊的第一線，這個臺灣的價值就出來了，所以我們的價值外交，這個也是另外一種臺灣存在的價值。","總體上來講，因為現在中國所採取企圖改變現狀、改變國際秩序，已經讓中國成為一個潛在大家共同的挑戰，要一起來因應。"],["陳委員冠廷：最後，請教部長，關於退職軍官、退職的這些跟國家安全相關的人員，如果進入中國、進入大陸地區者，不得從事妨礙國家安全或利益之活動。我想請教的是，其實現在不僅僅是退役的將官曾經到中國，甚至在中國重要的政治場所裡面發表對臺灣不利的言論之外，有一些退役、退休的外交官也常常有類似這樣的作法，請問外交部有什麼相應的方式來去避免。因為我必須強調，廣泛而持久的認知心理戰也好，或者是透過宣傳降低本國或者是他國公眾支持臺灣的意願都很嚴重，我想請教有沒有相關的內規，或者是未來有沒有什麼修法的方向？"],["林部長佳龍：因為臺灣是一個民主的國家，我們也有法治，所以對於所謂進出兩岸之間的公務人員，特別是外交官，我想我們都是一個個的個案，要很具體地去瞭解，其他就是依法行政。"],["陳委員冠廷：謝謝部長，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請王鴻薇委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":202,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-23","speakers":["馬文君","沈伯洋","羅美玲","黃仁","陳永康","林楚茵","王定宇","徐巧芯","陳冠廷","王鴻薇","麥玉珍","賴士葆","黃國昌","洪申翰","林德福","邱志偉","羅智強","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林憶君"],"page_start":149,"meetingDate":["2024-05-30"],"gazette_id":"1135301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135301_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第23次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1135301_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"153349","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153349","tool":"pyannote","id":"153349-pyannote"},"job_id":"cLIh8U02IlEIwHeN","queued_at":"2024-05-30 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廈 門 大 學 舉 辦 的 那 其 中 有 包 含 臺 灣 統 一 聯 盟 黨 的 黨 主 席 那 這 位 黨 主 席 也 是 教 授 他 過 去 也 曾 經 是 外 交 官 那 裡 面 有 提 到 說 相 關 關 於 一 個 中 國 原 則 的 論 述 我 想 請 教 部 長 您 看 到 這 邊\n\n4\n00:01:13,214 --> 00:01:40,930\n演 出 貼 文 之 後 有 什 麼 想 法 跟 看 法 ? 裡 面 有 什 麼 錯 誤 的 訊 息 你 希 望 能 夠 來 給 予 澄 清 ? 我 想 中 共 有 他 們 的 使 觀 跟 對 這 個 法 律 他 們 的 解 釋 不 過 如 果 以 涉 及 到 的 台 灣 地 位 來 講 那 他 舉 例 的 這 幾 個 其 實 都 不 是 在 國 際 法 上 這 個 是 就 是 具 有 國 際 法 直 接 效 力\n\n5\n00:01:40,930 --> 00:01:41,571\n請 問 部 長 , 上 述 的 看 法 你 怎 麼 看 ?\n\n6\n00:02:03,103 --> 00:02:22,438\n因 為 這 個 如 果 從 國 際 法 的 角 度 當 然 是 舊 青 山 合 約 是 最 重 要 的 那 對 2 7 5 8 號 決 議 因 為 這 個 衍 生 後 面 最 接 近 的 就 是 這 個 聯 大 的 那 個 決 議 那 這 個 決 議 中 共 最 近 又 有 進 一 步 法 律 戰 要 把 它 等 同 於 一 中 原 則\n\n7\n00:02:23,659 --> 00:02:49,430\n事 實 上 2 7 5 8 決 議 美 國 講 得 很 清 楚 世 界 各 國 的 民 主 國 家 也 就 這 個 只 處 理 的 中 國 代 表 權 不 涉 及 台 灣 的 地 位 所 以 這 也 是 為 什 麼 我 們 現 在 要 參 加 國 際 組 織 不 是 被 一 中 原 則 綁 住 更 何 況 各 國 有 不 同 版 本 的 一 中 政 策 不 以 美 國 來 講 他 的 一 中 政 是 建 立 在 台 灣 關 係 法 三 個 公 報 再 加 六 項 保 證 那 所 以\n\n8\n00:02:50,450 --> 00:03:11,241\n對 於 像 美 國 國 會 議 員 來 他 遵 循 的 可 能 台 灣 關 係 法 更 是 對 他 們 有 直 接 法 律 效 力 沒 錯 所 以 部 長 一 中 原 則 就 是 不 等 同 於 一 中 政 策 嘛 對 不 對 對 是 不 是 可 以 再 簡 單 的 跟 我 們 全 國 國 民 講 一 下 到 底 一 中 原 則 中 國 的 一 中 原 則 是 荒 謬 在 哪 邊 那 各 國 的 一 中 政 策 是 不 同 在 哪 裡 特 別 是 美 國 的\n\n9\n00:03:13,413 --> 00:03:41,959\n美 國 都 常 講 他 們 版 本 各 國 也 可 以 有 各 國 的 版 本 台 灣 也 是 我 們 可 以 有 自 己 的 版 本 涉 及 到 的 一 些 兩 岸 政 策 那 一 中 原 則 因 為 中 共 壟 斷 對 一 個 中 國 的 解 釋 他 的 三 段 論 很 清 楚 就 是 他 世 界 上 只 有 一 個 中 國 那 這 一 個 台 灣 是 中 國 的 一 部 分 那 中 華 人 民 共 和 國 代 表 中 國 所 以 他 連 環 套 之 後 我 們 只 要 進 入 一 中 原 則 台 灣 的 主 權 就 是 被 中 華 人 民 共 和 國 代 表\n\n10\n00:03:42,999 --> 00:03:53,208\n可 是 國 際 上 都 不 認 為 台 灣 是 中 華 人 民 共 和 國 的 一 部 分 台 灣 的 名 義 也 是 如 此 因 為 我 們 去 參 加 國 際 組 織 只 要 你 開 始 接 受 一 中 原 則 簡 單 來 講\n\n11\n00:03:55,219 --> 00:04:17,250\n你 就 變 成 可 能 另 外 一 個 香 港 因 為 一 中 原 則 處 理 就 是 台 灣 的 主 權 是 歸 屬 啊 所 以 這 個 時 候 呢 我 們 要 去 爭 取 人 權 比 如 說 啊 我 們 加 入 世 界 衛 生 組 織 我 們 是 一 種 人 權 可 是 如 果 你 犧 牲 主 權 那 你 也 換 不 到 人 權 這 個 就 是 現 在 我 們 全 世 界 對 中 國 一 中 原 則 他 認 為 說 他 壟 斷 了 解 釋 那 不 斷 的 去 啊 造 成 這 個 改 變 現 狀\n\n12\n00:04:19,771 --> 00:04:42,021\n謝 謝 部 長 所 以 剛 才 我 們 提 供 部 長 一 個 機 會 的 意 思 就 是 說 我 們 就 像 你 報 告 裡 面 講 到 中 國 持 續 在 國 際 場 域 來 鞏 固 一 中 的 格 局 不 管 是 用 歷 史 文 件 用 他 們 的 論 述 用 他 們 的 延 環 套 這 種 方 式 用 一 中 原 則 來 去 壟 斷 對 中 國 論 述 的 整 個 在 國 際 社 會 的 聲 音 那 這 些 都 是 對 我 們 是 有 傷 害 的\n\n13\n00:04:42,381 --> 00:05:08,377\n所 以 透 過 部 長 也 好 或 者 是 我 們 各 位 在 場 的 每 位 外 交 官 也 好 這 每 一 個 場 合 裡 面 要 確 實 的 把 論 述 從 法 律 的 條 文 也 好 到 我 們 現 在 的 國 際 現 實 的 政 治 也 好 一 一 的 都 要 去 述 明 那 我 必 須 再 強 調 不 管 是 現 任 的 外 交 官 或 者 是 以 後 卸 任 的 外 交 官 我 們 對 國 家 的 責 任 都 還 是 一 樣 重 要 對 於 台 灣 的 國 際 地 位 跟 空 間 的 論 述 我 們 要 確 實 要 澄 清 論 述 絕 對 不 能 夠 輸 論 述 絕 對 不 能 夠 填\n\n14\n00:05:10,618 --> 00:05:10,738\n陳 冠 廷\n\n15\n00:05:29,999 --> 00:05:33,281\n美 國 戰 爭 研 究 所 與 美 國 企 業 研 究 所 聯 合 發 表 《 從 脅 迫 到 投 降 , 中 國 如 何 不 戰 而 奪 台 》\n\n16\n00:05:45,686 --> 00:06:08,664\n恐 怕 會 在 賴 清 的 總 統 的 四 年 任 期 之 間 軍 事 、 經 濟 、 訊 息 還 有 網 路 四 大 領 域 分 階 段 的 來 去 禁 閉 台 灣 那 來 去 分 化 台 灣 社 會 來 去 嚇 阻 台 灣 的 反 對 中 國 共 產 黨 的 人 士 如 果 說 四 年 後 的 時 機 成 熟 那 中 國 可 能 甚 至 是 假 意 去 遞 出 和 平 的 訊 息 會 提 出 所 謂 的 和 平 方 案\n\n17\n00:06:14,166 --> 00:06:30,414\n關 於 這 個 部 分 我 想 要 請 教 部 長 因 為 這 個 不 是 只 跟 國 防 相 關 這 跟 外 交 也 有 相 關 這 跟 國 安 外 交 甚 至 是 內 政 全 部 都 有 相 關 在 外 交 部 長 的 立 場 上 你 怎 麼 看 這 個 部 分\n\n18\n00:06:32,812 --> 00:06:59,297\n其 實 沒 有 主 權 就 沒 有 人 權 也 沒 有 產 權 這 個 是 現 在 全 世 界 的 一 個 對 台 灣 的 支 持 因 為 台 灣 已 經 是 民 主 的 國 家 至 於 說 台 灣 內 部 對 於 國 家 的 定 位 或 者 是 什 麼 樣 的 走 向 那 是 民 主 過 程 的 一 部 分 可 是 對 外 來 代 表 的 話 其 實 現 在 國 際 法 上 面 有 一 個 趨 勢 就 是 和 平 手 段 就 是 這 個 從 G 7 在 廣 島\n\n19\n00:07:01,963 --> 00:07:16,211\n大 家 共 同 的 發 言 就 是 為 什 麼 中 共 企 圖 把 台 灣 問 題 變 成 好 像 中 國 的 內 政 要 把 台 海 內 海 化 而 世 界 各 國 的 反 應 不 是 因 為 台 灣 而 已 而 是 因 為 這 一 個 改 變 所 謂 的\n\n20\n00:07:17,111 --> 00:07:17,131\n謝 謝 部 長\n\n21\n00:07:43,899 --> 00:08:08,155\n這 個 講 得 非 常 好 那 我 必 須 再 強 調 剛 才 部 長 提 到 的 新 的 現 狀 比 如 說 中 國 現 在 要 打 破 軍 事 中 國 不 要 維 持 現 狀 那 在 這 個 狀 況 之 下 過 去 台 灣 都 是 在 中 國 的 框 架 之 下 被 討 論 所 以 你 看 在 馬 英 九 前 總 統 時 期 甚 至 在 更 早 時 期 的 陳 水 扁 前 總 統 時 期 只 要 談 到 台 灣 大 概 就 是 在 中 國 的 框 架 之 下 所 以 台 灣 沒 有 本 身 的 主 體 性 沒 有 談 到 台 灣 的 產 業 沒 有 談 到 台 灣 的 經 濟 沒 有 談 到 台 灣 的 文 化\n\n22\n00:08:10,376 --> 00:08:38,055\n所 以 現 在 剛 好 是 一 個 既 是 最 大 的 挑 戰 也 是 最 大 的 機 會 所 以 我 們 很 希 望 外 交 部 能 夠 扮 演 起 更 重 要 的 角 色 因 為 我 們 剛 才 提 到 的 包 含 部 長 講 的 你 從 法 律 開 始 講 你 從 過 去 的 國 際 條 約 開 始 講 你 從 每 一 個 訊 息 開 始 說 因 為 我 們 要 面 對 中 國 的 挑 戰 就 是 信 息 戰 、 法 律 戰 、 金 融 戰 甚 至 是 所 有 的 論 述 我 們 都 要 做 好 準 備 在 這 個 中 共 的 非 戰 爭 脅 迫 行 動 裡 面 的 策 略 還 有 一 個 重 點\n\n23\n00:08:38,735 --> 00:09:01,455\n就 是 用 廣 泛 的 宣 傳 降 低 美 國 公 眾 和 政 治 領 袖 支 持 台 灣 的 意 願 這 個 部 分 我 想 部 長 在 昨 天 拜 訪 我 們 辦 公 室 的 時 候 也 有 提 到 說 跟 國 會 的 參 眾 議 員 之 間 的 互 動 之 外 跟 行 政 系 統 上 面 的 互 動 部 長 各 位 解 釋 一 下 或 者 是 要 反 映 一 下 怎 麼 樣 來 反 制 降 低 美 國 公 眾 和 政 治 領 袖 支 持 台 灣 的 意 願\n\n24\n00:09:02,216 --> 00:09:28,997\n是 , 其 實 中 共 是 拿 台 灣 對 全 世 界 其 實 發 動 了 所 謂 的 三 戰 法 律 戰 、 心 理 戰 跟 輿 論 戰 那 透 過 因 為 現 在 它 數 位 集 權 所 掌 控 的 科 技 它 也 進 行 長 臂 的 管 轄 甚 至 要 統 治 所 以 這 已 經 侵 犯 到 很 多 國 家 的 內 政 跟 他 們 對 於 基 本 人 權 的 保 障 那 在 這 種 情 況 之 下 我 覺 得 台 灣 對 面 對 所 謂 他 們 的 灰 色 作 戰\n\n25\n00:09:32,138 --> 00:09:56,023\n臺 灣 的 經 驗 很 寶 貴 全 世 界 都 想 學 比 如 說 現 在 中 國 跟 俄 羅 斯 中 國 就 在 教 俄 羅 斯 怎 麼 樣 透 過 俄 烏 戰 爭 之 後 對 於 歐 美 這 一 種 所 謂 的 認 知 作 戰 那 臺 灣 是 在 受 他 們 攻 擊 的 第 一 線 這 個 臺 灣 的 價 值 就 出 來 了 所 以 我 們 價 值 外 交 這 個 也 是 另 外 一 種 臺 灣 存 在 的 價 值\n\n26\n00:09:57,643 --> 00:10:13,095\n所 以 這 個 總 體 上 來 講 因 為 現 在 中 國 所 採 取 的 企 圖 改 變 現 狀 改 變 國 際 秩 序 已 經 讓 這 個 中 國 成 為 一 個 潛 在 就 是 大 家 共 同 的 一 個 挑 戰 那 一 起 來 因 應\n\n27\n00:10:14,031 --> 00:10:39,929\n最 後 請 教 部 長 關 於 我 們 退 職 的 軍 官 退 職 的 這 些 跟 國 家 安 全 相 關 的 人 員 那 如 果 進 入 中 國 進 入 大 陸 地 區 者 不 得 從 事 防 害 國 家 安 全 或 利 益 之 活 動 那 我 想 請 教 說 其 實 現 在 不 僅 僅 是 退 役 的 將 官 曾 經 到 中 國 甚 至 在 中 國 的 這 個 重 要 的 政 治 場 所 裡 面 發 表 對 台 灣 不 利 的 言 論 之 外\n\n28\n00:10:40,669 --> 00:11:03,576\n有 一 些 退 役 的 外 交 官 退 休 的 外 交 官 那 也 常 常 有 類 似 這 樣 的 做 法 請 問 外 交 部 有 什 麼 樣 相 應 的 方 式 來 去 避 免 因 為 我 必 須 強 調 管 放 而 持 久 的 認 知 心 理 戰 也 好 或 者 是 說 透 過 宣 傳 降 低 本 國 或 者 是 他 國 的 公 眾 支 持 台 灣 的 意 願 都 很 嚴 重 我 想 請 教 有 沒 有 相 關 的 內 規 或 者 是 未 來 有 沒 有 什 麼 修 法 的 方 向\n\n29\n00:11:05,009 --> 00:11:05,029\n謝 謝 部 長 , 謝 謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n790\t20108\t請部長部長好部長首先先歡迎你回到立法院來備詢這份過程應該是比過去的都還要更挑戰因為他必須要面臨國會的一些質詢等等但這也是一個機會就是說透過\n21229\t23850\t首先部長我們先看一下我們這一個PVT Powerpoint這邊\n46159\t71953\t這個2024年的5月有一場兩岸選者面對面那活動是在廈門大學舉辦的那其中有包含臺灣統一聯盟黨的黨主席那這位黨主席也是教授他過去也曾經是外交官那裡面有提到說相關關於一個中國原則的論述我想請教部長您看到這邊\n73214\t100930\t演出貼文之後有什麼想法跟看法?裡面有什麼錯誤的訊息你希望能夠來給予澄清?我想中共有他們的使觀跟對這個法律他們的解釋不過如果以涉及到的台灣地位來講那他舉例的這幾個其實都不是在國際法上這個是就是具有國際法直接效力\n100930\t101571\t請問部長,上述的看法你怎麼看?\n123103\t142438\t因為這個如果從國際法的角度當然是舊青山合約是最重要的那對2758號決議因為這個衍生後面最接近的就是這個聯大的那個決議那這個決議中共最近又有進一步法律戰要把它等同於一中原則\n143659\t169430\t事實上2758決議美國講得很清楚世界各國的民主國家也就這個只處理的中國代表權不涉及台灣的地位所以這也是為什麼我們現在要參加國際組織不是被一中原則綁住更何況各國有不同版本的一中政策不以美國來講他的一中政是建立在台灣關係法三個公報再加六項保證那所以\n170450\t191241\t對於像美國國會議員來他遵循的可能台灣關係法更是對他們有直接法律效力沒錯所以部長一中原則就是不等同於一中政策嘛對不對對是不是可以再簡單的跟我們全國國民講一下到底一中原則中國的一中原則是荒謬在哪邊那各國的一中政策是不同在哪裡特別是美國的\n193413\t221959\t美國都常講他們版本各國也可以有各國的版本台灣也是我們可以有自己的版本涉及到的一些兩岸政策那一中原則因為中共壟斷對一個中國的解釋他的三段論很清楚就是他世界上只有一個中國那這一個台灣是中國的一部分那中華人民共和國代表中國所以他連環套之後我們只要進入一中原則台灣的主權就是被中華人民共和國代表\n222999\t233208\t可是國際上都不認為台灣是中華人民共和國的一部分台灣的名義也是如此因為我們去參加國際組織只要你開始接受一中原則簡單來講\n235219\t257250\t你就變成可能另外一個香港因為一中原則處理就是台灣的主權是歸屬啊所以這個時候呢我們要去爭取人權比如說啊我們加入世界衛生組織我們是一種人權可是如果你犧牲主權那你也換不到人權這個就是現在我們全世界對中國一中原則他認為說他壟斷了解釋那不斷的去啊造成這個改變現狀\n259771\t282021\t謝謝部長所以剛才我們提供部長一個機會的意思就是說我們就像你報告裡面講到中國持續在國際場域來鞏固一中的格局不管是用歷史文件用他們的論述用他們的延環套這種方式用一中原則來去壟斷對中國論述的整個在國際社會的聲音那這些都是對我們是有傷害的\n282381\t308377\t所以透過部長也好或者是我們各位在場的每位外交官也好這每一個場合裡面要確實的把論述從法律的條文也好到我們現在的國際現實的政治也好一一的都要去述明那我必須再強調不管是現任的外交官或者是以後卸任的外交官我們對國家的責任都還是一樣重要對於台灣的國際地位跟空間的論述我們要確實要澄清論述絕對不能夠輸論述絕對不能夠填\n310618\t310738\t陳冠廷\n329999\t333281\t美國戰爭研究所與美國企業研究所聯合發表《從脅迫到投降,中國如何不戰而奪台》\n345686\t368664\t恐怕會在賴清的總統的四年任期之間軍事、經濟、訊息還有網路四大領域分階段的來去禁閉台灣那來去分化台灣社會來去嚇阻台灣的反對中國共產黨的人士如果說四年後的時機成熟那中國可能甚至是假意去遞出和平的訊息會提出所謂的和平方案\n374166\t390414\t關於這個部分我想要請教部長因為這個不是只跟國防相關這跟外交也有相關這跟國安外交甚至是內政全部都有相關在外交部長的立場上你怎麼看這個部分\n392812\t419297\t其實沒有主權就沒有人權也沒有產權這個是現在全世界的一個對台灣的支持因為台灣已經是民主的國家至於說台灣內部對於國家的定位或者是什麼樣的走向那是民主過程的一部分可是對外來代表的話其實現在國際法上面有一個趨勢就是和平手段就是這個從G7在廣島\n421963\t436211\t大家共同的發言就是為什麼中共企圖把台灣問題變成好像中國的內政要把台海內海化而世界各國的反應不是因為台灣而已而是因為這一個改變所謂的\n437111\t437131\t謝謝部長\n463899\t488155\t這個講得非常好那我必須再強調剛才部長提到的新的現狀比如說中國現在要打破軍事中國不要維持現狀那在這個狀況之下過去台灣都是在中國的框架之下被討論所以你看在馬英九前總統時期甚至在更早時期的陳水扁前總統時期只要談到台灣大概就是在中國的框架之下所以台灣沒有本身的主體性沒有談到台灣的產業沒有談到台灣的經濟沒有談到台灣的文化\n490376\t518055\t所以現在剛好是一個既是最大的挑戰也是最大的機會所以我們很希望外交部能夠扮演起更重要的角色因為我們剛才提到的包含部長講的你從法律開始講你從過去的國際條約開始講你從每一個訊息開始說因為我們要面對中國的挑戰就是信息戰、法律戰、金融戰甚至是所有的論述我們都要做好準備在這個中共的非戰爭脅迫行動裡面的策略還有一個重點\n518735\t541455\t就是用廣泛的宣傳降低美國公眾和政治領袖支持台灣的意願這個部分我想部長在昨天拜訪我們辦公室的時候也有提到說跟國會的參眾議員之間的互動之外跟行政系統上面的互動部長各位解釋一下或者是要反映一下怎麼樣來反制降低美國公眾和政治領袖支持台灣的意願\n542216\t568997\t是,其實中共是拿台灣對全世界其實發動了所謂的三戰法律戰、心理戰跟輿論戰那透過因為現在它數位集權所掌控的科技它也進行長臂的管轄甚至要統治所以這已經侵犯到很多國家的內政跟他們對於基本人權的保障那在這種情況之下我覺得台灣對面對所謂他們的灰色作戰\n572138\t596023\t臺灣的經驗很寶貴全世界都想學比如說現在中國跟俄羅斯中國就在教俄羅斯怎麼樣透過俄烏戰爭之後對於歐美這一種所謂的認知作戰那臺灣是在受他們攻擊的第一線這個臺灣的價值就出來了所以我們價值外交這個也是另外一種臺灣存在的價值\n597643\t613095\t所以這個總體上來講因為現在中國所採取的企圖改變現狀改變國際秩序已經讓這個中國成為一個潛在就是大家共同的一個挑戰那一起來因應\n614031\t639929\t最後請教部長關於我們退職的軍官退職的這些跟國家安全相關的人員那如果進入中國進入大陸地區者不得從事防害國家安全或利益之活動那我想請教說其實現在不僅僅是退役的將官曾經到中國甚至在中國的這個重要的政治場所裡面發表對台灣不利的言論之外\n640669\t663576\t有一些退役的外交官退休的外交官那也常常有類似這樣的做法請問外交部有什麼樣相應的方式來去避免因為我必須強調管放而持久的認知心理戰也好或者是說透過宣傳降低本國或者是他國的公眾支持台灣的意願都很嚴重我想請教有沒有相關的內規或者是未來有沒有什麼修法的方向\n665009\t665029\t謝謝部長,謝謝\n","txt":"請部長部長好部長首先先歡迎你回到立法院來備詢這份過程應該是比過去的都還要更挑戰因為他必須要面臨國會的一些質詢等等但這也是一個機會就是說透過\n首先部長我們先看一下我們這一個PVT Powerpoint這邊\n這個2024年的5月有一場兩岸選者面對面那活動是在廈門大學舉辦的那其中有包含臺灣統一聯盟黨的黨主席那這位黨主席也是教授他過去也曾經是外交官那裡面有提到說相關關於一個中國原則的論述我想請教部長您看到這邊\n演出貼文之後有什麼想法跟看法?裡面有什麼錯誤的訊息你希望能夠來給予澄清?我想中共有他們的使觀跟對這個法律他們的解釋不過如果以涉及到的台灣地位來講那他舉例的這幾個其實都不是在國際法上這個是就是具有國際法直接效力\n請問部長,上述的看法你怎麼看?\n因為這個如果從國際法的角度當然是舊青山合約是最重要的那對2758號決議因為這個衍生後面最接近的就是這個聯大的那個決議那這個決議中共最近又有進一步法律戰要把它等同於一中原則\n事實上2758決議美國講得很清楚世界各國的民主國家也就這個只處理的中國代表權不涉及台灣的地位所以這也是為什麼我們現在要參加國際組織不是被一中原則綁住更何況各國有不同版本的一中政策不以美國來講他的一中政是建立在台灣關係法三個公報再加六項保證那所以\n對於像美國國會議員來他遵循的可能台灣關係法更是對他們有直接法律效力沒錯所以部長一中原則就是不等同於一中政策嘛對不對對是不是可以再簡單的跟我們全國國民講一下到底一中原則中國的一中原則是荒謬在哪邊那各國的一中政策是不同在哪裡特別是美國的\n美國都常講他們版本各國也可以有各國的版本台灣也是我們可以有自己的版本涉及到的一些兩岸政策那一中原則因為中共壟斷對一個中國的解釋他的三段論很清楚就是他世界上只有一個中國那這一個台灣是中國的一部分那中華人民共和國代表中國所以他連環套之後我們只要進入一中原則台灣的主權就是被中華人民共和國代表\n可是國際上都不認為台灣是中華人民共和國的一部分台灣的名義也是如此因為我們去參加國際組織只要你開始接受一中原則簡單來講\n你就變成可能另外一個香港因為一中原則處理就是台灣的主權是歸屬啊所以這個時候呢我們要去爭取人權比如說啊我們加入世界衛生組織我們是一種人權可是如果你犧牲主權那你也換不到人權這個就是現在我們全世界對中國一中原則他認為說他壟斷了解釋那不斷的去啊造成這個改變現狀\n謝謝部長所以剛才我們提供部長一個機會的意思就是說我們就像你報告裡面講到中國持續在國際場域來鞏固一中的格局不管是用歷史文件用他們的論述用他們的延環套這種方式用一中原則來去壟斷對中國論述的整個在國際社會的聲音那這些都是對我們是有傷害的\n所以透過部長也好或者是我們各位在場的每位外交官也好這每一個場合裡面要確實的把論述從法律的條文也好到我們現在的國際現實的政治也好一一的都要去述明那我必須再強調不管是現任的外交官或者是以後卸任的外交官我們對國家的責任都還是一樣重要對於台灣的國際地位跟空間的論述我們要確實要澄清論述絕對不能夠輸論述絕對不能夠填\n陳冠廷\n美國戰爭研究所與美國企業研究所聯合發表《從脅迫到投降,中國如何不戰而奪台》\n恐怕會在賴清的總統的四年任期之間軍事、經濟、訊息還有網路四大領域分階段的來去禁閉台灣那來去分化台灣社會來去嚇阻台灣的反對中國共產黨的人士如果說四年後的時機成熟那中國可能甚至是假意去遞出和平的訊息會提出所謂的和平方案\n關於這個部分我想要請教部長因為這個不是只跟國防相關這跟外交也有相關這跟國安外交甚至是內政全部都有相關在外交部長的立場上你怎麼看這個部分\n其實沒有主權就沒有人權也沒有產權這個是現在全世界的一個對台灣的支持因為台灣已經是民主的國家至於說台灣內部對於國家的定位或者是什麼樣的走向那是民主過程的一部分可是對外來代表的話其實現在國際法上面有一個趨勢就是和平手段就是這個從G7在廣島\n大家共同的發言就是為什麼中共企圖把台灣問題變成好像中國的內政要把台海內海化而世界各國的反應不是因為台灣而已而是因為這一個改變所謂的\n謝謝部長\n這個講得非常好那我必須再強調剛才部長提到的新的現狀比如說中國現在要打破軍事中國不要維持現狀那在這個狀況之下過去台灣都是在中國的框架之下被討論所以你看在馬英九前總統時期甚至在更早時期的陳水扁前總統時期只要談到台灣大概就是在中國的框架之下所以台灣沒有本身的主體性沒有談到台灣的產業沒有談到台灣的經濟沒有談到台灣的文化\n所以現在剛好是一個既是最大的挑戰也是最大的機會所以我們很希望外交部能夠扮演起更重要的角色因為我們剛才提到的包含部長講的你從法律開始講你從過去的國際條約開始講你從每一個訊息開始說因為我們要面對中國的挑戰就是信息戰、法律戰、金融戰甚至是所有的論述我們都要做好準備在這個中共的非戰爭脅迫行動裡面的策略還有一個重點\n就是用廣泛的宣傳降低美國公眾和政治領袖支持台灣的意願這個部分我想部長在昨天拜訪我們辦公室的時候也有提到說跟國會的參眾議員之間的互動之外跟行政系統上面的互動部長各位解釋一下或者是要反映一下怎麼樣來反制降低美國公眾和政治領袖支持台灣的意願\n是,其實中共是拿台灣對全世界其實發動了所謂的三戰法律戰、心理戰跟輿論戰那透過因為現在它數位集權所掌控的科技它也進行長臂的管轄甚至要統治所以這已經侵犯到很多國家的內政跟他們對於基本人權的保障那在這種情況之下我覺得台灣對面對所謂他們的灰色作戰\n臺灣的經驗很寶貴全世界都想學比如說現在中國跟俄羅斯中國就在教俄羅斯怎麼樣透過俄烏戰爭之後對於歐美這一種所謂的認知作戰那臺灣是在受他們攻擊的第一線這個臺灣的價值就出來了所以我們價值外交這個也是另外一種臺灣存在的價值\n所以這個總體上來講因為現在中國所採取的企圖改變現狀改變國際秩序已經讓這個中國成為一個潛在就是大家共同的一個挑戰那一起來因應\n最後請教部長關於我們退職的軍官退職的這些跟國家安全相關的人員那如果進入中國進入大陸地區者不得從事防害國家安全或利益之活動那我想請教說其實現在不僅僅是退役的將官曾經到中國甚至在中國的這個重要的政治場所裡面發表對台灣不利的言論之外\n有一些退役的外交官退休的外交官那也常常有類似這樣的做法請問外交部有什麼樣相應的方式來去避免因為我必須強調管放而持久的認知心理戰也好或者是說透過宣傳降低本國或者是他國的公眾支持台灣的意願都很嚴重我想請教有沒有相關的內規或者是未來有沒有什麼修法的方向\n謝謝部長,謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.790 --> 00:20.108\n請 部 長 部 長 好 部 長 首 先 先 歡 迎 你 回 到 立 法 院 來 備 詢 這 份 過 程 應 該 是 比 過 去 的 都 還 要 更 挑 戰 因 為 他 必 須 要 面 臨 國 會 的 一 些 質 詢 等 等 但 這 也 是 一 個 機 會 就 是 說 透 過\n\n00:21.229 --> 00:23.850\n首 先 部 長 我 們 先 看 一 下 我 們 這 一 個 P V T P o w e r p o i n t 這 邊\n\n00:46.159 --> 01:11.953\n這 個 2 0 2 4 年 的 5 月 有 一 場 兩 岸 選 者 面 對 面 那 活 動 是 在 廈 門 大 學 舉 辦 的 那 其 中 有 包 含 臺 灣 統 一 聯 盟 黨 的 黨 主 席 那 這 位 黨 主 席 也 是 教 授 他 過 去 也 曾 經 是 外 交 官 那 裡 面 有 提 到 說 相 關 關 於 一 個 中 國 原 則 的 論 述 我 想 請 教 部 長 您 看 到 這 邊\n\n01:13.214 --> 01:40.930\n演 出 貼 文 之 後 有 什 麼 想 法 跟 看 法 ? 裡 面 有 什 麼 錯 誤 的 訊 息 你 希 望 能 夠 來 給 予 澄 清 ? 我 想 中 共 有 他 們 的 使 觀 跟 對 這 個 法 律 他 們 的 解 釋 不 過 如 果 以 涉 及 到 的 台 灣 地 位 來 講 那 他 舉 例 的 這 幾 個 其 實 都 不 是 在 國 際 法 上 這 個 是 就 是 具 有 國 際 法 直 接 效 力\n\n01:40.930 --> 01:41.571\n請 問 部 長 , 上 述 的 看 法 你 怎 麼 看 ?\n\n02:03.103 --> 02:22.438\n因 為 這 個 如 果 從 國 際 法 的 角 度 當 然 是 舊 青 山 合 約 是 最 重 要 的 那 對 2 7 5 8 號 決 議 因 為 這 個 衍 生 後 面 最 接 近 的 就 是 這 個 聯 大 的 那 個 決 議 那 這 個 決 議 中 共 最 近 又 有 進 一 步 法 律 戰 要 把 它 等 同 於 一 中 原 則\n\n02:23.659 --> 02:49.430\n事 實 上 2 7 5 8 決 議 美 國 講 得 很 清 楚 世 界 各 國 的 民 主 國 家 也 就 這 個 只 處 理 的 中 國 代 表 權 不 涉 及 台 灣 的 地 位 所 以 這 也 是 為 什 麼 我 們 現 在 要 參 加 國 際 組 織 不 是 被 一 中 原 則 綁 住 更 何 況 各 國 有 不 同 版 本 的 一 中 政 策 不 以 美 國 來 講 他 的 一 中 政 是 建 立 在 台 灣 關 係 法 三 個 公 報 再 加 六 項 保 證 那 所 以\n\n02:50.450 --> 03:11.241\n對 於 像 美 國 國 會 議 員 來 他 遵 循 的 可 能 台 灣 關 係 法 更 是 對 他 們 有 直 接 法 律 效 力 沒 錯 所 以 部 長 一 中 原 則 就 是 不 等 同 於 一 中 政 策 嘛 對 不 對 對 是 不 是 可 以 再 簡 單 的 跟 我 們 全 國 國 民 講 一 下 到 底 一 中 原 則 中 國 的 一 中 原 則 是 荒 謬 在 哪 邊 那 各 國 的 一 中 政 策 是 不 同 在 哪 裡 特 別 是 美 國 的\n\n03:13.413 --> 03:41.959\n美 國 都 常 講 他 們 版 本 各 國 也 可 以 有 各 國 的 版 本 台 灣 也 是 我 們 可 以 有 自 己 的 版 本 涉 及 到 的 一 些 兩 岸 政 策 那 一 中 原 則 因 為 中 共 壟 斷 對 一 個 中 國 的 解 釋 他 的 三 段 論 很 清 楚 就 是 他 世 界 上 只 有 一 個 中 國 那 這 一 個 台 灣 是 中 國 的 一 部 分 那 中 華 人 民 共 和 國 代 表 中 國 所 以 他 連 環 套 之 後 我 們 只 要 進 入 一 中 原 則 台 灣 的 主 權 就 是 被 中 華 人 民 共 和 國 代 表\n\n03:42.999 --> 03:53.208\n可 是 國 際 上 都 不 認 為 台 灣 是 中 華 人 民 共 和 國 的 一 部 分 台 灣 的 名 義 也 是 如 此 因 為 我 們 去 參 加 國 際 組 織 只 要 你 開 始 接 受 一 中 原 則 簡 單 來 講\n\n03:55.219 --> 04:17.250\n你 就 變 成 可 能 另 外 一 個 香 港 因 為 一 中 原 則 處 理 就 是 台 灣 的 主 權 是 歸 屬 啊 所 以 這 個 時 候 呢 我 們 要 去 爭 取 人 權 比 如 說 啊 我 們 加 入 世 界 衛 生 組 織 我 們 是 一 種 人 權 可 是 如 果 你 犧 牲 主 權 那 你 也 換 不 到 人 權 這 個 就 是 現 在 我 們 全 世 界 對 中 國 一 中 原 則 他 認 為 說 他 壟 斷 了 解 釋 那 不 斷 的 去 啊 造 成 這 個 改 變 現 狀\n\n04:19.771 --> 04:42.021\n謝 謝 部 長 所 以 剛 才 我 們 提 供 部 長 一 個 機 會 的 意 思 就 是 說 我 們 就 像 你 報 告 裡 面 講 到 中 國 持 續 在 國 際 場 域 來 鞏 固 一 中 的 格 局 不 管 是 用 歷 史 文 件 用 他 們 的 論 述 用 他 們 的 延 環 套 這 種 方 式 用 一 中 原 則 來 去 壟 斷 對 中 國 論 述 的 整 個 在 國 際 社 會 的 聲 音 那 這 些 都 是 對 我 們 是 有 傷 害 的\n\n04:42.381 --> 05:08.377\n所 以 透 過 部 長 也 好 或 者 是 我 們 各 位 在 場 的 每 位 外 交 官 也 好 這 每 一 個 場 合 裡 面 要 確 實 的 把 論 述 從 法 律 的 條 文 也 好 到 我 們 現 在 的 國 際 現 實 的 政 治 也 好 一 一 的 都 要 去 述 明 那 我 必 須 再 強 調 不 管 是 現 任 的 外 交 官 或 者 是 以 後 卸 任 的 外 交 官 我 們 對 國 家 的 責 任 都 還 是 一 樣 重 要 對 於 台 灣 的 國 際 地 位 跟 空 間 的 論 述 我 們 要 確 實 要 澄 清 論 述 絕 對 不 能 夠 輸 論 述 絕 對 不 能 夠 填\n\n05:10.618 --> 05:10.738\n陳 冠 廷\n\n05:29.999 --> 05:33.281\n美 國 戰 爭 研 究 所 與 美 國 企 業 研 究 所 聯 合 發 表 《 從 脅 迫 到 投 降 , 中 國 如 何 不 戰 而 奪 台 》\n\n05:45.686 --> 06:08.664\n恐 怕 會 在 賴 清 的 總 統 的 四 年 任 期 之 間 軍 事 、 經 濟 、 訊 息 還 有 網 路 四 大 領 域 分 階 段 的 來 去 禁 閉 台 灣 那 來 去 分 化 台 灣 社 會 來 去 嚇 阻 台 灣 的 反 對 中 國 共 產 黨 的 人 士 如 果 說 四 年 後 的 時 機 成 熟 那 中 國 可 能 甚 至 是 假 意 去 遞 出 和 平 的 訊 息 會 提 出 所 謂 的 和 平 方 案\n\n06:14.166 --> 06:30.414\n關 於 這 個 部 分 我 想 要 請 教 部 長 因 為 這 個 不 是 只 跟 國 防 相 關 這 跟 外 交 也 有 相 關 這 跟 國 安 外 交 甚 至 是 內 政 全 部 都 有 相 關 在 外 交 部 長 的 立 場 上 你 怎 麼 看 這 個 部 分\n\n06:32.812 --> 06:59.297\n其 實 沒 有 主 權 就 沒 有 人 權 也 沒 有 產 權 這 個 是 現 在 全 世 界 的 一 個 對 台 灣 的 支 持 因 為 台 灣 已 經 是 民 主 的 國 家 至 於 說 台 灣 內 部 對 於 國 家 的 定 位 或 者 是 什 麼 樣 的 走 向 那 是 民 主 過 程 的 一 部 分 可 是 對 外 來 代 表 的 話 其 實 現 在 國 際 法 上 面 有 一 個 趨 勢 就 是 和 平 手 段 就 是 這 個 從 G 7 在 廣 島\n\n07:01.963 --> 07:16.211\n大 家 共 同 的 發 言 就 是 為 什 麼 中 共 企 圖 把 台 灣 問 題 變 成 好 像 中 國 的 內 政 要 把 台 海 內 海 化 而 世 界 各 國 的 反 應 不 是 因 為 台 灣 而 已 而 是 因 為 這 一 個 改 變 所 謂 的\n\n07:17.111 --> 07:17.131\n謝 謝 部 長\n\n07:43.899 --> 08:08.155\n這 個 講 得 非 常 好 那 我 必 須 再 強 調 剛 才 部 長 提 到 的 新 的 現 狀 比 如 說 中 國 現 在 要 打 破 軍 事 中 國 不 要 維 持 現 狀 那 在 這 個 狀 況 之 下 過 去 台 灣 都 是 在 中 國 的 框 架 之 下 被 討 論 所 以 你 看 在 馬 英 九 前 總 統 時 期 甚 至 在 更 早 時 期 的 陳 水 扁 前 總 統 時 期 只 要 談 到 台 灣 大 概 就 是 在 中 國 的 框 架 之 下 所 以 台 灣 沒 有 本 身 的 主 體 性 沒 有 談 到 台 灣 的 產 業 沒 有 談 到 台 灣 的 經 濟 沒 有 談 到 台 灣 的 文 化\n\n08:10.376 --> 08:38.055\n所 以 現 在 剛 好 是 一 個 既 是 最 大 的 挑 戰 也 是 最 大 的 機 會 所 以 我 們 很 希 望 外 交 部 能 夠 扮 演 起 更 重 要 的 角 色 因 為 我 們 剛 才 提 到 的 包 含 部 長 講 的 你 從 法 律 開 始 講 你 從 過 去 的 國 際 條 約 開 始 講 你 從 每 一 個 訊 息 開 始 說 因 為 我 們 要 面 對 中 國 的 挑 戰 就 是 信 息 戰 、 法 律 戰 、 金 融 戰 甚 至 是 所 有 的 論 述 我 們 都 要 做 好 準 備 在 這 個 中 共 的 非 戰 爭 脅 迫 行 動 裡 面 的 策 略 還 有 一 個 重 點\n\n08:38.735 --> 09:01.455\n就 是 用 廣 泛 的 宣 傳 降 低 美 國 公 眾 和 政 治 領 袖 支 持 台 灣 的 意 願 這 個 部 分 我 想 部 長 在 昨 天 拜 訪 我 們 辦 公 室 的 時 候 也 有 提 到 說 跟 國 會 的 參 眾 議 員 之 間 的 互 動 之 外 跟 行 政 系 統 上 面 的 互 動 部 長 各 位 解 釋 一 下 或 者 是 要 反 映 一 下 怎 麼 樣 來 反 制 降 低 美 國 公 眾 和 政 治 領 袖 支 持 台 灣 的 意 願\n\n09:02.216 --> 09:28.997\n是 , 其 實 中 共 是 拿 台 灣 對 全 世 界 其 實 發 動 了 所 謂 的 三 戰 法 律 戰 、 心 理 戰 跟 輿 論 戰 那 透 過 因 為 現 在 它 數 位 集 權 所 掌 控 的 科 技 它 也 進 行 長 臂 的 管 轄 甚 至 要 統 治 所 以 這 已 經 侵 犯 到 很 多 國 家 的 內 政 跟 他 們 對 於 基 本 人 權 的 保 障 那 在 這 種 情 況 之 下 我 覺 得 台 灣 對 面 對 所 謂 他 們 的 灰 色 作 戰\n\n09:32.138 --> 09:56.023\n臺 灣 的 經 驗 很 寶 貴 全 世 界 都 想 學 比 如 說 現 在 中 國 跟 俄 羅 斯 中 國 就 在 教 俄 羅 斯 怎 麼 樣 透 過 俄 烏 戰 爭 之 後 對 於 歐 美 這 一 種 所 謂 的 認 知 作 戰 那 臺 灣 是 在 受 他 們 攻 擊 的 第 一 線 這 個 臺 灣 的 價 值 就 出 來 了 所 以 我 們 價 值 外 交 這 個 也 是 另 外 一 種 臺 灣 存 在 的 價 值\n\n09:57.643 --> 10:13.095\n所 以 這 個 總 體 上 來 講 因 為 現 在 中 國 所 採 取 的 企 圖 改 變 現 狀 改 變 國 際 秩 序 已 經 讓 這 個 中 國 成 為 一 個 潛 在 就 是 大 家 共 同 的 一 個 挑 戰 那 一 起 來 因 應\n\n10:14.031 --> 10:39.929\n最 後 請 教 部 長 關 於 我 們 退 職 的 軍 官 退 職 的 這 些 跟 國 家 安 全 相 關 的 人 員 那 如 果 進 入 中 國 進 入 大 陸 地 區 者 不 得 從 事 防 害 國 家 安 全 或 利 益 之 活 動 那 我 想 請 教 說 其 實 現 在 不 僅 僅 是 退 役 的 將 官 曾 經 到 中 國 甚 至 在 中 國 的 這 個 重 要 的 政 治 場 所 裡 面 發 表 對 台 灣 不 利 的 言 論 之 外\n\n10:40.669 --> 11:03.576\n有 一 些 退 役 的 外 交 官 退 休 的 外 交 官 那 也 常 常 有 類 似 這 樣 的 做 法 請 問 外 交 部 有 什 麼 樣 相 應 的 方 式 來 去 避 免 因 為 我 必 須 強 調 管 放 而 持 久 的 認 知 心 理 戰 也 好 或 者 是 說 透 過 宣 傳 降 低 本 國 或 者 是 他 國 的 公 眾 支 持 台 灣 的 意 願 都 很 嚴 重 我 想 請 教 有 沒 有 相 關 的 內 規 或 者 是 未 來 有 沒 有 什 麼 修 法 的 方 向\n\n11:05.009 --> 11:05.029\n謝 謝 部 長 , 謝 謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.79,"end":20.108,"text":"請部長部長好部長首先先歡迎你回到立法院來備詢這份過程應該是比過去的都還要更挑戰因為他必須要面臨國會的一些質詢等等但這也是一個機會就是說透過"},{"start":21.229,"end":23.85,"text":"首先部長我們先看一下我們這一個PVT Powerpoint這邊"},{"start":46.159,"end":71.953,"text":"這個2024年的5月有一場兩岸選者面對面那活動是在廈門大學舉辦的那其中有包含臺灣統一聯盟黨的黨主席那這位黨主席也是教授他過去也曾經是外交官那裡面有提到說相關關於一個中國原則的論述我想請教部長您看到這邊"},{"start":73.214,"end":100.93,"text":"演出貼文之後有什麼想法跟看法?裡面有什麼錯誤的訊息你希望能夠來給予澄清?我想中共有他們的使觀跟對這個法律他們的解釋不過如果以涉及到的台灣地位來講那他舉例的這幾個其實都不是在國際法上這個是就是具有國際法直接效力"},{"start":100.93,"end":101.571,"text":"請問部長,上述的看法你怎麼看?"},{"start":123.103,"end":142.438,"text":"因為這個如果從國際法的角度當然是舊青山合約是最重要的那對2758號決議因為這個衍生後面最接近的就是這個聯大的那個決議那這個決議中共最近又有進一步法律戰要把它等同於一中原則"},{"start":143.659,"end":169.43,"text":"事實上2758決議美國講得很清楚世界各國的民主國家也就這個只處理的中國代表權不涉及台灣的地位所以這也是為什麼我們現在要參加國際組織不是被一中原則綁住更何況各國有不同版本的一中政策不以美國來講他的一中政是建立在台灣關係法三個公報再加六項保證那所以"},{"start":170.45,"end":191.241,"text":"對於像美國國會議員來他遵循的可能台灣關係法更是對他們有直接法律效力沒錯所以部長一中原則就是不等同於一中政策嘛對不對對是不是可以再簡單的跟我們全國國民講一下到底一中原則中國的一中原則是荒謬在哪邊那各國的一中政策是不同在哪裡特別是美國的"},{"start":193.413,"end":221.959,"text":"美國都常講他們版本各國也可以有各國的版本台灣也是我們可以有自己的版本涉及到的一些兩岸政策那一中原則因為中共壟斷對一個中國的解釋他的三段論很清楚就是他世界上只有一個中國那這一個台灣是中國的一部分那中華人民共和國代表中國所以他連環套之後我們只要進入一中原則台灣的主權就是被中華人民共和國代表"},{"start":222.999,"end":233.208,"text":"可是國際上都不認為台灣是中華人民共和國的一部分台灣的名義也是如此因為我們去參加國際組織只要你開始接受一中原則簡單來講"},{"start":235.219,"end":257.25,"text":"你就變成可能另外一個香港因為一中原則處理就是台灣的主權是歸屬啊所以這個時候呢我們要去爭取人權比如說啊我們加入世界衛生組織我們是一種人權可是如果你犧牲主權那你也換不到人權這個就是現在我們全世界對中國一中原則他認為說他壟斷了解釋那不斷的去啊造成這個改變現狀"},{"start":259.771,"end":282.021,"text":"謝謝部長所以剛才我們提供部長一個機會的意思就是說我們就像你報告裡面講到中國持續在國際場域來鞏固一中的格局不管是用歷史文件用他們的論述用他們的延環套這種方式用一中原則來去壟斷對中國論述的整個在國際社會的聲音那這些都是對我們是有傷害的"},{"start":282.381,"end":308.377,"text":"所以透過部長也好或者是我們各位在場的每位外交官也好這每一個場合裡面要確實的把論述從法律的條文也好到我們現在的國際現實的政治也好一一的都要去述明那我必須再強調不管是現任的外交官或者是以後卸任的外交官我們對國家的責任都還是一樣重要對於台灣的國際地位跟空間的論述我們要確實要澄清論述絕對不能夠輸論述絕對不能夠填"},{"start":310.618,"end":310.738,"text":"陳冠廷"},{"start":329.999,"end":333.281,"text":"美國戰爭研究所與美國企業研究所聯合發表《從脅迫到投降,中國如何不戰而奪台》"},{"start":345.686,"end":368.664,"text":"恐怕會在賴清的總統的四年任期之間軍事、經濟、訊息還有網路四大領域分階段的來去禁閉台灣那來去分化台灣社會來去嚇阻台灣的反對中國共產黨的人士如果說四年後的時機成熟那中國可能甚至是假意去遞出和平的訊息會提出所謂的和平方案"},{"start":374.166,"end":390.414,"text":"關於這個部分我想要請教部長因為這個不是只跟國防相關這跟外交也有相關這跟國安外交甚至是內政全部都有相關在外交部長的立場上你怎麼看這個部分"},{"start":392.812,"end":419.297,"text":"其實沒有主權就沒有人權也沒有產權這個是現在全世界的一個對台灣的支持因為台灣已經是民主的國家至於說台灣內部對於國家的定位或者是什麼樣的走向那是民主過程的一部分可是對外來代表的話其實現在國際法上面有一個趨勢就是和平手段就是這個從G7在廣島"},{"start":421.963,"end":436.211,"text":"大家共同的發言就是為什麼中共企圖把台灣問題變成好像中國的內政要把台海內海化而世界各國的反應不是因為台灣而已而是因為這一個改變所謂的"},{"start":437.111,"end":437.131,"text":"謝謝部長"},{"start":463.899,"end":488.155,"text":"這個講得非常好那我必須再強調剛才部長提到的新的現狀比如說中國現在要打破軍事中國不要維持現狀那在這個狀況之下過去台灣都是在中國的框架之下被討論所以你看在馬英九前總統時期甚至在更早時期的陳水扁前總統時期只要談到台灣大概就是在中國的框架之下所以台灣沒有本身的主體性沒有談到台灣的產業沒有談到台灣的經濟沒有談到台灣的文化"},{"start":490.376,"end":518.055,"text":"所以現在剛好是一個既是最大的挑戰也是最大的機會所以我們很希望外交部能夠扮演起更重要的角色因為我們剛才提到的包含部長講的你從法律開始講你從過去的國際條約開始講你從每一個訊息開始說因為我們要面對中國的挑戰就是信息戰、法律戰、金融戰甚至是所有的論述我們都要做好準備在這個中共的非戰爭脅迫行動裡面的策略還有一個重點"},{"start":518.735,"end":541.455,"text":"就是用廣泛的宣傳降低美國公眾和政治領袖支持台灣的意願這個部分我想部長在昨天拜訪我們辦公室的時候也有提到說跟國會的參眾議員之間的互動之外跟行政系統上面的互動部長各位解釋一下或者是要反映一下怎麼樣來反制降低美國公眾和政治領袖支持台灣的意願"},{"start":542.216,"end":568.997,"text":"是,其實中共是拿台灣對全世界其實發動了所謂的三戰法律戰、心理戰跟輿論戰那透過因為現在它數位集權所掌控的科技它也進行長臂的管轄甚至要統治所以這已經侵犯到很多國家的內政跟他們對於基本人權的保障那在這種情況之下我覺得台灣對面對所謂他們的灰色作戰"},{"start":572.138,"end":596.023,"text":"臺灣的經驗很寶貴全世界都想學比如說現在中國跟俄羅斯中國就在教俄羅斯怎麼樣透過俄烏戰爭之後對於歐美這一種所謂的認知作戰那臺灣是在受他們攻擊的第一線這個臺灣的價值就出來了所以我們價值外交這個也是另外一種臺灣存在的價值"},{"start":597.643,"end":613.095,"text":"所以這個總體上來講因為現在中國所採取的企圖改變現狀改變國際秩序已經讓這個中國成為一個潛在就是大家共同的一個挑戰那一起來因應"},{"start":614.031,"end":639.929,"text":"最後請教部長關於我們退職的軍官退職的這些跟國家安全相關的人員那如果進入中國進入大陸地區者不得從事防害國家安全或利益之活動那我想請教說其實現在不僅僅是退役的將官曾經到中國甚至在中國的這個重要的政治場所裡面發表對台灣不利的言論之外"},{"start":640.669,"end":663.576,"text":"有一些退役的外交官退休的外交官那也常常有類似這樣的做法請問外交部有什麼樣相應的方式來去避免因為我必須強調管放而持久的認知心理戰也好或者是說透過宣傳降低本國或者是他國的公眾支持台灣的意願都很嚴重我想請教有沒有相關的內規或者是未來有沒有什麼修法的方向"},{"start":665.009,"end":665.029,"text":"謝謝部長,謝謝"}]}}}}