{"id":153352,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153352","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/bbbc431469b8aebaada408215c959a214869c0f3e297fc60beba37a180c9b1cd0c0883a82e0276fe5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"10:38:05 - 10:53:59","影片長度":"00:15:54","會議時間":"2024-05-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第28次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院秘書長、法務部部長、衛生福利部、教育部率所屬相關單位列席就「鐵窗裡的少年─如何提升輔導處遇、預防再犯、落實社區轉銜機制、促進社會復歸，並完備社會安全網」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-30","duration":954,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第28次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":28,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-28"},"end_time":"2024-05-30T10:53:59+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-30T10:38:05+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":559,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（10時38分）主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關首長、官員、會場工作夥伴、記者、媒體女士與先生。有請司法院吳秘書長。"],["主席：好，麻煩吳秘書長。"],["吳秘書長三龍：委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：秘書長好。我想今天大家非常關注包括我非常佩服的林月琴委員，持續在關心兒少保護的事情，那麼我們來看一下，司法院昨天剛開了一個會議，因應割喉案事件，司法院在推「少事法」草案當中，在昨天的院會，對於刑滿三年未再犯者才能塗銷前科，而且可視情況轉換安置輔導跟保護管束。請問秘書長，是不是你們昨天有開這樣子的一個院會？"],["吳秘書長三龍：昨天有開。"],["謝廳長靜慧：是的，有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是喔！少年受管訓處分，在早年1976年增訂了第八十三條之一，本來是宣告完畢後五年內，未再受宣告者，就視為未曾受該宣告，是不是這樣？到1997年，第八十三條之一你們把五年改為三年，增加了轉介處分、不付審理或不付保護處分的裁定，為什麼昨天的院會你們又把它改成「未再因故意觸犯刑罰法律」，才做這樣的規定，能不能說明一下？"],["謝廳長靜慧：大概就是我們有去參考65年當時的塗銷前科，它其實是有一個要件──必須是三年內沒有再觸犯這些刑罰法律，受到管訓的宣告跟刑的宣告。是有這樣一個維持善良品性的要件，我們認為應該是要把它恢復回來。"],["鍾委員佳濱：恢復啦？"],["謝廳長靜慧：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以在1976年跟1997年的修訂忽略了這一條，所以你們要恢復就對了？"],["謝廳長靜慧：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，除處理少年塗銷機制之外，有沒有其他任何降低少年再犯可能性的作為呢？"],["謝廳長靜慧：跟委員報告，我想一個少年他透過一個犯罪，其實就是一個學習的過程，所以司法介入主要的目的，是要去恢復家庭、教育跟社區的功能。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是。"],["謝廳長靜慧：所以如何預防再犯？犯罪學裡面的預防再犯是一種方向，現在行政院有犯罪預防方案這樣的一個措施。整個少年司法介入也是要預防再犯。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，預防，你講了很多次的預防，謝謝廳長！來，我們來分析一下，其實目前的少年犯罪，跟早年我們想像的戰後嬰兒潮，青少年階段血氣方剛，那麼暴力犯罪的事情占比相對多，其實我們參考很多國家都這樣，暴力犯罪跟人口結構是有關的，當戰後嬰兒潮的人數在進入青少年期到壯年期的時候，他們因為從事暴力犯罪的可能性具有本錢，所以較高；但是我們看看這幾年來，青少年的嫌疑犯24%是涉詐欺，比率是最高的，你們有沒有注意到這個犯罪行為的轉變？"],["謝廳長靜慧：有的，在近幾年來是有這樣的一個趨勢。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是的，但是這些屬於詐欺的輕罪，他終結都是以保護管束或者假日輔導為主。我們看一下在這個圖表當中，107年到111年，大概將近6成是保護管束，還有3成是訓誡或是假日輔導，我請教一下，訓誡是由誰為之？假日輔導由誰為之？"],["謝廳長靜慧：訓誡由法官為之，假日生活輔導由少年保護官為之。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好，說到關鍵字了──「少年保護官」這5個字。好，如果在過程當中輔導資源不足，我們觀察到少年很容易回頭來投靠幫派，我們來看一下2022年司法業務年報提到，過去10年，受調查的少年三千多人當中，經常犯罪者占了3成，他們在什麼地方經常犯罪呢？從學校的偏差行為到地方政府的少輔會，因為觸法進入少年法院，裁定之後他或者是訓誡，或者是假日輔導，或者是保護管束，或者是安置機構，或者是感化教育。我們來看一下，在學校端，目前「學輔法」的輔導老師，高中每12班才1名，國中每15班才1名。今天有教育部的副署長在，其實我們都看到在三級預防部分，的確是資源有限，是不是這樣子？教育部是不是也覺得資源是有限的？"],["戴副署長淑芬：對，我們會努力爭取，其實包括「學輔法」再修，我們也會增加專業輔導人力。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，但是我們今天談的是司法院主責的部分，在保護處分後，你們的聯繫跟轉銜會議是不是由少保官主責呢？根據少年法院與相關機關處理少年事件聯繫辦法第二十八條規定，其實少觀所現在已經改名了，從少觀所出來的收容少年要進行評估，必要的時候得邀集相關主管機關召開資源聯繫會議，要求包括少年法院、社政、教育、輔導、衛生醫療、警政及勞政等參加。因為我過去在地方政府擔任副首長，副首長通常就是一些資源聯繫會報的副主任委員，也就是在主任委員（縣市首長）不能主持會議的時候，都是委由副主任委員出席，副署長，是不是這樣？"],["戴副署長淑芬：對、對，經常都是副市長。"],["鍾委員佳濱：都是副市長。可能秘書長對這個業務比較不熟悉，還是交給廳長來回答，聯繫跟轉銜會議誰來主責？"],["謝廳長靜慧：跟委員報告，如果是保護官的業務，會由保護官來主責，但是有些時候像涉及到地方政府的局、處，我們目前有二級聯繫會議，會由地方法院院長跟地方政府的首長去召開相關局處的聯繫會議。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，您剛剛講到那個關鍵字啦！其實就這樣一個轉銜機制來講，聯繫會報中行政機關的協調，當然是以這些主管或首長為主，但是對於個案本身的瞭解，是不是少保官最重要？"],["謝廳長靜慧：當然、當然。"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒有錯嘛！好，我們往下看，所以保護管束的成敗與否，關鍵就在少保官，少保官最瞭解個案，也最清楚當他有需要聯繫會報去調度各種資源的時候，他是需求的發動者，是不是這樣子？"],["謝廳長靜慧：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，聯繫會報會把這些資源整合進來，我們看少年事件處理法第五十一條，對於少年之保護管束，由少年保護官掌理，他除了應告知少年應遵守的事項外，要常保接觸，要關心他的教養、就醫、求職等等。請問司法院，每名保護管束的少年平均可以見到幾次少保官？"],["謝廳長靜慧：我們這個是有規則規定的，奕賢保護官來回答一下委員。"],["鍾委員佳濱：保護官請說。"],["溫保護官奕賢：委員你好。有關保護管束的少年部分，我們有一個要點制定，前半年的話……"],["鍾委員佳濱：前半年嗎？你聲音大一點好嗎？"],["溫保護官奕賢：不好意思，前三個月每個月至少要兩次，可視他的情況再增加，如果他的情況比較不穩定，我們甚至可以去做家訪或是校訪等動作。關於報到的話，是至少要兩次。"],["鍾委員佳濱：就是前三個月每個月兩次？"],["溫保護官奕賢：對，之後如果狀況比較穩定的話，我們會降成一次。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那就至少一次。我們來看一下，每個月只有一次跟少保官接觸，我們舉個例，這個個案是媒體報導的，舉例原文是，阿富說的，詐欺、毒品等這種案件，他們都會互相告知，判個假日生活輔導或進少觀所待幾個月，出來再加個保護管束，對少年來講不痛不癢，沒什麼約束力。你就是每個月去法院給觀護人看一下，根本看不出什麼東西。他不知道是少保官，觀護人是成年犯啦！請問少保官跟個案接觸的時候是要看什麼？"],["溫保護官奕賢：關於報到的部分，我們其實會就他的一些生活狀況，還有就學、就業的情形去做了解。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是書面的嗎？還是口頭的詢問？"],["溫保護官奕賢：除了口頭以外，我們還會有一些資料詢問，比方說學校的部分，我們會瞭解一下他在學的狀況。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，我們來看一下，如果你們需要對個案有瞭解，我們看保護處分的量有多大？最近五年少年法院裁定保護處分的案件數，單單是2023年到11月為止就有八千多件，以我們編制數來講，目前是不足，它有缺額，目前還缺了10個，一位少保官要負責100個個案，是不是這樣子？100個個案，少保官一個月要跟他見一次面，要深入地去瞭解他的生活狀況，你覺得夠嗎？"],["謝廳長靜慧：所以我們這次有提出希望可以增額的計畫。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以你們認為編制不足要增額，可是我跟你講，任何行政機關，不管是你們的法官助理、司法事務官、檢察事務官或檢察官助理，人總統統會跟你講什麼？秘書長，你們遇到這種情形，人總都跟你講什麼？"],["吳秘書長三龍：他們一般都比較嚴格來把關。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你說得比較客氣，他們會說都已經給滿了啦！是不是？而且還會告訴你說，你們的缺額還沒補滿呢？你人都沒有補滿，還找我要人！是不是這樣子？所以我們問題不要只放在編制員額不足，事實上要怎麼想？在編制員額有限的情況下，我們要怎麼樣去增加我們輔導的能量，是不是這樣？","我們來看一下，我們統計過去10年的資料，其實刑事案件當中少年犯罪的主要原因，心理因素差不多占了近五成，社會因素占了兩成，什麼是心理因素呢？就是他個人的問題。什麼叫社會因素呢？外界的引誘，比如說幫派、陣頭把他吸引過去，所以這兩個因素我們都看得清楚，其實就是需要有人去關心他、有人去指導他，是不是這樣子？"],["謝廳長靜慧：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：這是心理因素嘛！心理因素你沒辦法透過外面的部分……"],["謝廳長靜慧：當然，這是社會連結的部分。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是的，社會連結跟他的心理因素。所以我這邊提醒一下，除了司法院本身之外，更生保護會在做什麼事情？秘書長，你知道更保會在做什麼嗎？"],["謝廳長靜慧：更生保護就是對於譬如說從矯正機關回到社區，要協助他能夠社會適應。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以它保護的範圍包括什麼？包括受少年管訓處分執行完畢者以及在觀護人觀護中的少年，因為這個法用詞沒有修過，還在保護管束執行中，有沒有包含少年？"],["謝廳長靜慧：當然包括。"],["鍾委員佳濱：當然有嘛！"],["謝廳長靜慧：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我們查了一下，它過去每年的預算規模大概3億，司法院編預算補助它2億1,000萬，還有它的其他收入，但它每年都用不完，大概還剩四千多萬，累積餘絀還有七億多。廳長，你知道它有剩這麼多錢嗎？"],["謝廳長靜慧：不知道。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我幫你整理出來了，既然基金會有餘裕，它可不可以協助少年保護管束業務呢？我們看一下，每年我們有8、9,000件的保護處分案件，它一整年做了多少件？服務的更生人有七百多個，其中少年才一百二十幾個，秘書長，這就要換請教你了，你覺得更保會的能量可不可以拿來好好運用？"],["吳秘書長三龍：這個應該要互相支援啦。"],["鍾委員佳濱：互相支援，司法院每年編2億1,000萬給更保會，你覺得可不可以透過更保會、透過他們聘用包括專職的社工、心理或非少保官核心業務的人來協助少保官執行保護管束業務？"],["吳秘書長三龍：這個應該儘量來……"],["謝廳長靜慧：跟委員報告，這個2億應該是法務部……"],["鍾委員佳濱：是法務部編的啊？那我問錯人了。法務部來，問你們最好了，徐次長，你覺得這個提議如何？"],["徐次長錫祥：這個部分更生保護會是會來協助，但是因為這些少年人怕被標籤化，所以他們的申請本來就比較沒有那麼的……"],["鍾委員佳濱：現在不是請他們來申請啦，我的意思是，司法院少保官的編制員額有限，他一個人要負責100個個案，一個月要跟他們見面一次，如果可以透過基金會的協助去聘一些人力來協助少保官，你覺得有沒有可行性？"],["徐次長錫祥：更生保護是需要當事人申請，不過這個部分我們會加強跟少年法庭橫向聯繫跟溝通，我們會提升他的案量。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我告訴你，你們就有現有法制了，我們看一下，2019年少事法修法採行政先行，對於曝險少年、偏差行為少年，你們都列入輔導之列。所以你們有一個叫少輔會的單位，秘書長或次長，你們知道少輔會嗎？知道嘛！少年輔導委員會設置及輔導實施辦法第二條，為什麼我特別提呢？因為我過去在擔任地方政府副首長、副縣長的時候，常常主持類似的會議，但是當時並沒有少輔會這種東西，是後來少事法修法之後才增加的。這裡面寫地方政府所設置的要整合什麼？包括社政、教育、衛政、戶政、警政、民政、勞政、財政、毒品危害防制等機關，所以這個聯繫中心可以向少年法院提出處理的需求，所以在保護處分結束後，如果能夠整合少輔會的資源，讓少年持續來接受協助，我希望你們要善用地方政府的聯繫會報，把更保會的資源也納入這個聯繫會報當中，讓更保會不是代當事人提出申請，而是由聯繫會報提出。","因為主席已經響鈴了，最後我有三個訴求，為了強化少年離開少觀所、矯正學校後的聯繫、轉銜會議機制，請修正少事法，明訂由少保官主責。秘書長，你可以考慮嗎？"],["謝廳長靜慧：跟委員報告，這個部分本來就是由保護官去執行保護處分。"],["鍾委員佳濱：後面的聯繫跟轉銜會議的機制呢？"],["謝廳長靜慧：當然，現在少事法第四十二條第六項在保護處分執行中，就可以像委員剛剛提到的，包括我們未來可以跟更生保護會去做橫向聯繫。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，你已經講到第二點了，除了設法增補少保官的編制員額之外，請你們評估運用多元人力資源（如更生保護會），來提供心理社政協助、降低再犯，並於一個月提供報告，你們跟法務部可以嗎？"],["謝廳長靜慧：我們會跟法務部來洽商。"],["鍾委員佳濱：法務部可以嗎？"],["徐次長錫祥：可以，我們會再聯繫。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好。最後，評估保護處分結束後，要整合少輔會的資源，持續給予非行少年協助，這個部分是不是也跟地方政府聯繫一下，瞭解目前地方政府設置少輔會這樣的聯繫會報之後，它的成效如何，可以嗎？"],["謝廳長靜慧：是，委員，我們可以利用現在少事法的二級聯繫機制，就是地方政府和地方法院……"],["鍾委員佳濱：提出一個他們實施的成效評估報告。"],["謝廳長靜慧：沒有問題，我們現在已經在運作當中，這個報告可以提出來。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝秘書長、謝謝廳長、謝謝次長。"],["主席：等一下我們在11時的時候處理臨時提案，屆時如果有委員正在詢答，就待該位委員詢答完畢之後，即時進行處理。","下一位請鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員。","下一位請張雅琳進行詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":332,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-28","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","翁曉玲","羅智強","莊瑞雄","林思銘","林月琴","鍾佳濱","張雅琳","吳思瑤","陳培瑜","傅崐萁","陳俊宇","謝龍介","沈發惠"],"page_start":275,"meetingDate":["2024-05-30"],"gazette_id":"1135401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135401_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第28次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院秘書長、法務部部長、衛生福利部、教育部率所屬相關單位列席就「鐵窗裡的少年─\n如何提升輔導處遇、預防再犯、落實社區轉銜機制、促進社會復歸，並完備社會安全網」進行專\n題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1135401_00011"}},"transcript":{"id":"153352","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153352","tool":"pyannote","id":"153352-pyannote"},"job_id":"TQQJgKWKCjsk1Fj0","queued_at":"2024-05-30 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來 是 宣 告 完 畢 後 5 年 而 未 到 受 宣 告 就 視 為 未 承 受 該 宣 告 是 不 是 這 樣 ?\n\n4\n00:01:14,542 --> 00:01:30,038\n那 到 1 9 9 7 年 呢 在 8 3 條 之 一 呢 你 們 把 5 年 改 為 3 年 那 增 加 了 轉 介 處 分 不 護 審 理 或 不 護 保 護 處 分 的 裁 定 那 為 什 麼 昨 天 的 院 會 你 們 講 把 改 成 說 未 在 因 故 意 觸 犯 刑 法 才 做 這 樣 的 規 定 能 不 能 說 明 一 下\n\n5\n00:01:30,937 --> 00:01:52,275\n大 概 就 是 我 們 有 去 參 考 就 是 6 5 年 當 時 的 這 樣 一 個 就 是 徒 消 前 科 他 其 實 是 有 一 個 要 件 就 是 說 必 須 是 三 年 內 他 沒 有 再 觸 犯 這 些 刑 法 法 律 受 到 管 訓 的 宣 告 跟 刑 的 宣 告 那 有 這 樣 的 一 個 維 持 善 良 品 性 的 一 個 要 件 那 我 們 認 為 應 該 是 要 把 它 恢 復 回 來\n\n6\n00:01:53,416 --> 00:02:05,905\n所 以 在 1 9 7 6 年 跟 1 9 9 7 年 的 修 訂 忽 略 了 這 一 條 , 所 以 你 把 它 恢 復 就 對 了 ? 是 。 好 , 往 下 看 齁 。 那 麼 除 李 少 年 這 樣 徒 消 棄 置 之 外 , 有 沒 有 其 他 任 何 降 低 少 年 再 犯 可 能 性 的 作 為 呢 ? 秘 書 長 。\n\n7\n00:02:08,056 --> 00:02:33,301\n跟 委 員 報 告 我 想 一 個 少 年 他 透 過 一 個 犯 罪 其 實 就 是 一 個 學 習 的 過 程 所 以 在 司 法 介 入 我 們 是 主 要 的 目 的 是 要 去 恢 復 家 庭 跟 教 育 的 功 能 跟 社 區 的 功 能 那 所 以 其 實 如 何 預 防 再 犯 犯 罪 學 裡 面 的 預 防 再 犯 其 實 是 一 種 這 個 一 個 方 向 其 實 我 們 現 在 行 政 院 有 一 個 犯 罪 預 防 方 案 的 一 個 這 樣 一 個 措 施 那 整 個 少 年 司 法 介 入 也 是 要 預 防\n\n8\n00:02:34,181 --> 00:02:56,726\n好 , 預 防 , 你 講 了 很 多 次 的 預 防 , 謝 謝 廳 長 。 來 , 我 們 來 分 析 一 下 , 其 實 目 前 的 少 年 犯 罪 跟 早 年 , 我 們 剛 剛 以 前 想 像 說 的 戰 後 嬰 兒 潮 在 青 少 年 階 段 血 氣 方 剛 , 那 麼 暴 力 犯 罪 的 事 情 占 比 相 對 多 。 其 實 我 們 去 參 考 , 很 多 國 家 都 這 樣 , 其 實 暴 力 犯 罪 跟 那 個 人 口 結 構 是 有 關 的 。\n\n9\n00:02:57,546 --> 00:03:13,846\n如 果 當 戰 後 嬰 兒 潮 的 人 數 在 進 入 的 新 少 年 期 到 壯 年 期 的 時 候 他 們 因 為 從 事 暴 力 犯 罪 的 可 能 性 具 有 那 個 本 錢 所 以 較 高 但 是 我 們 看 看 這 幾 年 來 新 少 年 的 嫌 疑 犯 的 2 4 % 是 涉 詐 期 比 例 是 最 高 的 你 們 有 沒 有 注 意 到 這 個 犯 罪 行 為 的 轉 變\n\n10\n00:03:15,615 --> 00:03:37,412\n有 的 我 們 這 個 在 近 幾 年 來 是 有 這 樣 的 一 個 趨 勢 是 的 那 但 是 呢 我 們 這 些 屬 於 詐 欺 的 輕 罪 他 終 結 呢 都 是 以 保 護 管 束 或 者 說 在 假 日 輔 導 為 主 那 我 們 看 一 下 在 這 個 圖 表 當 中 1 0 7 年 到 1 1 1 年 大 概 呢 絕 大 部 分 的 將 近 六 成 是 保 護 管 束 還 有 三 成 的 是 訓 誡 或 是 加 入 輔 導 我 請 教 一 下 訓 誡 是 由 誰 為 之 加 入 輔 導 由 誰 為 之\n\n11\n00:03:42,612 --> 00:04:07,926\n訓 誡 由 法 官 維 持 , 教 育 生 活 輔 導 由 少 年 保 護 官 很 好 , 說 到 關 鍵 字 了 , 這 七 個 字 , 少 年 保 護 官 , 還 有 這 五 個 字 , 好 來 , 我 們 來 看 一 下 那 如 果 在 過 程 當 中 輔 導 資 源 不 足 , 那 少 年 呢 我 們 觀 察 到 很 容 易 回 頭 來 投 靠 幫 派 我 們 來 看 一 下 在 2 0 2 2 年 的 司 法 業 務 年 報 當 中 , 過 去 十 年 受 調 查 的 少 年 當 中 三 千 多 人 當 中 , 經 常 犯 罪 的 降 了 三 成\n\n12\n00:04:08,726 --> 00:04:27,783\n那 他 們 在 什 麼 地 方 在 經 常 犯 罪 呢 ? 我 們 看 一 下 從 學 校 的 偏 差 行 為 到 地 方 政 府 的 少 輔 會 因 為 處 罰 進 入 了 少 年 法 院 裁 定 之 後 他 或 者 是 訓 誡 或 者 是 假 日 輔 導 或 者 保 護 管 束 或 者 安 置 機 構 或 者 感 化 教 育 那 我 們 來 看 一 下 在 學 校 端 目 前 我 們 的 學 輔 法 呢 輔 導 老 師 啊 高 中 每 1 2 班 才 一 名 啊\n\n13\n00:04:28,664 --> 00:04:40,456\n國 中 每 1 5 班 才 一 名 , 今 天 有 教 育 部 的 副 署 長 在 , 其 實 我 們 都 看 到 這 個 預 防 的 部 分 , 在 三 級 預 防 的 部 分 , 的 確 是 資 源 有 限 , 是 不 是 這 樣 子 ? 教 育 部 是 不 是 也 覺 得 資 源 是 有 限 的 ?\n\n14\n00:04:41,657 --> 00:04:59,306\n我 們 會 努 力 爭 取 , 其 實 包 括 修 法 再 修 , 我 們 也 會 增 加 專 業 輔 導 人 力 好 , 但 是 我 們 今 天 談 的 是 司 法 院 主 責 的 部 分 在 保 護 處 分 後 , 我 們 的 聯 繫 跟 轉 嫌 會 議 是 不 是 由 邵 保 官 來 主 責 呢 ? 我 們 來 看 一 下\n\n15\n00:05:00,026 --> 00:05:23,512\n根 據 我 們 的 少 年 法 院 與 相 關 機 關 處 理 少 年 事 件 聯 繫 辦 法 第 2 8 條 規 定 其 實 從 少 關 所 , 現 在 已 經 改 名 了 , 出 來 的 收 容 少 年 他 要 進 行 評 估 必 要 的 時 候 相 關 的 主 管 機 關 , 你 看 , 包 含 什 麼 ? 要 支 援 的 聯 繫 匯 報 , 要 求 包 括 少 年 法 院 、 社 政 、 教 育 、 輔 導 、 衛 生 醫 療 、 警 政 跟 勞 政 因 為 我 過 去 在 地 方 政 府 我 是 擔 任 副 首 長\n\n16\n00:05:24,392 --> 00:05:44,116\n副 首 長 通 常 就 是 一 些 這 種 聯 繫 匯 報 的 副 主 任 委 員 也 就 在 主 任 委 員 、 縣 市 首 長 不 能 主 持 會 議 的 時 候 都 是 委 由 副 主 任 委 員 來 出 席 是 不 是 副 首 長 是 不 是 這 樣 ? 是 沒 錯 齁 ? 都 是 副 首 長 那 請 問 一 下 可 能 因 為 秘 書 長 對 這 個 業 務 比 較 還 是 交 給 廳 長 來 回 答 了 齁 聯 繫 跟 轉 銜 誰 來 主 責 ?\n\n17\n00:05:50,291 --> 00:06:06,977\n跟 委 員 報 告 如 果 說 是 保 護 官 的 業 務 會 有 保 護 官 來 主 責 但 是 有 些 時 候 像 涉 及 到 地 方 政 府 的 局 處 我 目 前 有 這 個 二 級 聯 繫 會 會 由 院 長 、 地 方 保 安 院 院 長 跟 地 方 政 府 的 首 長 去 召 開 相 關 局 處 的 聯 繫 會 其 實 您 剛 講 那 個 關 鍵 字 啦 其 實 就 這 樣 的 一 個 轉 弦 的 機 制 來 講 呢 聯 繫 匯 報 的 行 政 機 關 的 協 調 當 然 是 以 這 些 主 管 或 首 長\n\n18\n00:06:16,280 --> 00:06:16,300\n委 員 會 議 長\n\n19\n00:06:37,729 --> 00:06:39,510\n請 問 司 法 院 每 名 保 護 管 束 的 少 年 平 均 可 以 見 到 幾 次 少 保 官 ?\n\n20\n00:06:58,075 --> 00:06:59,036\n前 半 年 你 聲 音 大 一 點 好 嗎 不 好 意 思\n\n21\n00:07:12,591 --> 00:07:14,093\n就 前 半 年 、 前 三 個 月 每 個 月 兩 次\n\n22\n00:07:30,091 --> 00:07:30,191\n主 席\n\n23\n00:07:47,941 --> 00:08:06,007\n告 知 啊 判 個 假 日 生 活 輔 導 經 少 管 所 幾 個 月 出 來 再 加 個 保 護 管 束 對 少 年 來 講 不 痛 不 癢 沒 有 什 麼 約 束 力 你 就 根 本 就 是 每 個 月 去 法 院 給 關 護 人 他 不 知 道 是 少 保 官 啦 關 護 人 是 成 年 犯 啦 給 人 看 一 下 根 本 看 不 出 什 麼 東 西 請 問 少 保 官 跟 他 們 個 案 接 觸 是 要 看 什 麼 要 看 什 麼\n\n24\n00:08:11,981 --> 00:08:29,939\n關 於 報 告 的 部 分 我 們 其 實 會 就 他 的 一 些 生 活 狀 況 還 有 就 學 就 業 的 情 形 去 做 一 些 瞭 解 那 就 是 書 面 的 嗎 ? 還 是 口 頭 的 詢 問 ? 除 了 口 頭 以 外 我 們 還 會 有 一 些 資 料 詢 問 好 那 我 們 來 看 一 下 會 跟 他 瞭 解 一 下 他 在 學 的 狀 況 如 果 你 們 需 要 對 個 案 有 瞭 解 我 們 看 保 護 處 分 的 量 有 多 大 你 看 一 下 齁\n\n25\n00:08:30,780 --> 00:08:57,079\n在 我 目 前 看 起 來 呢 我 們 的 這 個 最 近 5 年 來 少 年 法 院 裁 定 保 護 處 分 的 案 件 數 呢 單 單 是 2 0 2 3 年 到 1 1 月 為 止 就 超 過 8 0 0 0 多 件 那 以 我 們 編 制 數 來 講 呢 目 前 是 有 不 足 啦 還 有 缺 額 目 前 還 缺 了 1 0 個 那 一 個 少 保 官 要 負 責 1 0 0 個 個 案 是 不 是 這 樣 子 你 覺 得 1 0 0 個 個 案 一 個 月 他 要 跟 他 見 一 次 面 要 深 入 的 去 了 解 他 的 生 活 狀 況 你 覺 得 夠 嗎\n\n26\n00:09:00,770 --> 00:09:19,316\n所 以 我 們 這 次 有 提 出 那 個 就 是 希 望 可 以 增 額 的 一 個 計 畫 所 以 你 們 認 為 編 制 不 足 要 增 額 可 是 我 跟 你 講 啊 任 何 行 政 機 關 不 管 是 你 們 的 法 官 助 理 、 司 法 事 務 官 、 檢 察 官 助 理 、 檢 察 事 務 官 、 檢 察 官 助 理 或 法 官 助 理 通 通 人 總 都 跟 你 講 什 麼 秘 書 長 人 總 你 們 遇 到 這 種 事 人 總 都 跟 你 講 什 麼 目 前 他 們\n\n27\n00:09:27,346 --> 00:09:30,447\n行 事 案 件 當 中 少 年 犯 罪 主 要 原 因 、 心 理 因 素\n\n28\n00:09:57,119 --> 00:09:59,301\n這 兩 個 因 素 我 們 都 看 得 清 楚 其 實 就 是 需 要 個 人 有 人 去 關 心 他 、 有 人 去 指 導 他 , 是 不 是 這 樣 子 ?\n\n29\n00:10:19,157 --> 00:10:31,282\n這 心 理 因 素 嘛 , 心 理 因 素 你 沒 辦 法 透 過 外 面 的 社 會 連 結 的 部 分 是 的 , 社 會 連 結 跟 他 的 心 理 因 素 , 好 , 我 們 現 在 看 那 所 以 呢 , 其 實 我 這 邊 提 醒 一 下 , 司 法 院 本 身 之 外 , 根 深 保 護 會 在 做 什 麼 事 情 ? 那 個 , 秘 書 長 你 知 道 根 保 護 會 在 做 什 麼 嗎 ?\n\n30\n00:10:36,769 --> 00:10:56,363\n深 深 保 護 就 是 對 於 比 如 說 從 矯 正 機 關 回 到 社 區 那 要 協 助 他 能 夠 受 社 會 適 應 所 以 說 他 的 保 護 的 範 圍 包 括 什 麼 受 少 年 管 訓 處 分 執 行 完 畢 者 還 有 在 關 護 人 關 護 中 的 少 年 因 為 這 個 法 用 詞 沒 有 修 過 啦 他 在 保 護 管 署 執 行 中 有 沒 有 包 括 我 們 這 個 少 年\n\n31\n00:10:57,063 --> 00:11:15,534\n當 然 有 嘛 我 們 查 了 一 下 他 過 去 呢 每 年 他 的 預 算 規 模 大 概 3 億 我 們 司 法 院 邊 預 算 補 助 他 2 億 1 還 有 他 的 其 他 收 入 但 每 年 呢 大 概 都 用 不 完 都 還 有 剩 我 4 千 多 萬 累 計 的 餘 出 呢 已 經 還 剩 了 7 億 多 啊 聽 長 你 知 道 他 有 剩 這 麼 多 錢 嗎\n\n32\n00:11:17,741 --> 00:11:35,263\n不 知 道 我 幫 你 整 理 出 來 了 所 以 我 們 來 看 一 下 那 麼 既 然 基 金 會 有 餘 裕 他 可 不 可 以 協 助 少 年 來 保 護 管 束 業 務 我 們 看 一 下 他 目 前 他 一 整 年 每 年 我 們 有 八 九 千 件 的 保 護 處 分 案 件 他 一 整 年 做 了 多 少 件\n\n33\n00:11:36,889 --> 00:12:05,424\n福 的 更 生 人 更 生 人 做 了 7 0 0 多 個 少 年 的 才 1 2 0 幾 個 您 覺 得 秘 書 長 這 就 要 換 你 來 請 教 一 下 了 您 覺 得 耕 保 會 的 能 量 可 不 可 以 拿 來 好 好 運 用 這 個 應 該 要 互 相 支 援 互 相 支 援 所 以 你 覺 得 司 法 院 每 年 編 2 億 1 0 0 0 萬 給 耕 保 會 你 覺 得 可 不 可 以 透 過 耕 保 會 透 過 他 們 聘 用 包 括 專 職 的 社 工 、 心 理 或 這 些 非 少 保 官 核 心 業 務 的 人 來 協 助 少 保 官 執 行 這 個 保 護 管 束 業 務\n\n34\n00:12:08,335 --> 00:12:17,928\n這 個 應 該 盡 量 來 . . . 對 , 跟 委 員 報 告 這 個 部 分 兩 議 應 該 是 法 務 部 . . . 是 法 務 部 編 的 啊 ? 那 我 問 錯 人 了 , 法 務 部 ? 來 , 剛 好 , 法 務 部 來 來 來 , 問 你 們 最 好 了 , 他 們 . . .\n\n35\n00:12:19,994 --> 00:12:34,605\n我 們 的 徐 市 長 , 您 覺 得 這 個 提 議 這 個 部 分 我 們 更 生 保 護 會 我 們 是 會 來 協 助 但 是 就 是 這 些 少 年 他 們 有 他\n\n36\n00:12:38,748 --> 00:12:39,669\n司 法 院 議 員\n\n37\n00:13:00,285 --> 00:13:19,556\n透 過 我 們 基 金 會 的 協 助 可 以 聘 一 些 人 力 來 協 助 少 保 官 你 覺 得 有 沒 有 可 行 性 更 生 保 護 是 需 要 當 事 人 申 請 不 過 這 一 個 部 分 我 們 會 加 強 跟 少 年 保 庭 橫 向 聯 繫 跟 溝 通 提 升 他 的 案 量 來 我 告 訴 你 你 們 就 現 有 法 制 來 我 們 看 一 下\n\n38\n00:13:20,516 --> 00:13:34,244\n來 我 們 2 0 1 9 年 齁 那 個 我 們 的 少 司 法 修 法 才 行 政 先 行 嘛 對 於 負 險 少 年 偏 差 行 為 少 年 我 們 都 列 入 我 們 的 輔 導 之 列 往 下 看 所 以 呢 我 們 有 一 個 叫 少 府 會 我 們 秘 書 長 或 次 長 你 們 知 道 少 府 會 嗎\n\n39\n00:13:35,492 --> 00:14:01,461\n知 道 嗎 對 不 對 少 年 輔 導 委 員 會 的 設 置 及 輔 導 實 施 辦 法 第 二 條 為 什 麼 我 特 別 提 呢 因 為 我 過 去 在 擔 任 地 方 政 府 的 副 首 長 的 時 候 我 當 副 縣 長 的 時 候 我 常 常 主 持 類 似 的 會 議 但 當 時 呢 並 沒 有 少 輔 會 這 種 東 西 是 後 來 我 們 修 法 之 後 少 數 法 修 法 之 後 才 增 加 的 他 這 邊 寫 地 方 政 府 所 設 置 的 要 整 合 包 括 什 麼 社 政 教 育 、 衛 政 、 戶 政 、 警 政 、 民 政 、 勞 政 、 財 政 還 有 毒 品 危 害 的 防 治\n\n40\n00:14:04,702 --> 00:14:32,673\n那 所 以 呢 他 這 些 呢 他 這 個 聯 繫 中 心 他 可 以 向 少 年 法 院 提 出 處 理 的 需 求 所 以 說 在 保 護 組 問 組 結 束 後 如 果 能 夠 整 合 少 會 的 資 源 讓 少 年 持 續 來 接 受 協 助 我 希 望 你 們 要 善 用 地 方 這 種 這 個 聯 繫 匯 報 把 耕 保 會 的 資 源 也 納 入 到 這 個 聯 繫 匯 報 當 中 讓 耕 保 會 不 是 代 當 事 人 提 出 申 請 而 是 遞 由 聯 繫 匯 報 提 出 所 以 我 最 後 的 訴 求 因 為 主 委 已 經 響 鈴 了 齁\n\n41\n00:14:34,774 --> 00:14:41,839\n為 了 強 化 少 年 離 開 少 關 所 、 矯 正 學 校 或 聯 繫 轉 弦 會 議 的 機 制 , 請 修 正 事 法 明 定 由 少 保 關 主 責 。\n\n42\n00:14:45,626 --> 00:15:03,521\n這 個 部 分 本 來 就 是 由 保 護 官 去 執 行 保 護 處 分 後 面 的 聯 繫 跟 轉 銜 會 議 的 機 制 當 然 現 在 我 們 的 少 事 法 4 2 條 6 項 在 保 護 處 分 執 行 中 就 是 可 以 像 委 員 你 剛 提 到 的 包 括 我 們 未 來 可 以 跟 更 生 保 護 會 去 做 一 個 很 好 的 聯 繫 那 你 已 經 講 到 第 二 點 了\n\n43\n00:15:04,281 --> 00:15:18,026\n除 了 我 們 設 法 增 補 我 們 少 保 官 的 編 制 元 額 之 外 請 你 們 評 估 運 用 多 元 的 人 力 資 源 , 比 如 說 更 生 保 護 會 來 提 供 心 理 、 社 政 的 協 助 降 低 再 犯 , 並 一 個 月 提 供 報 告 , 可 以 嗎 ? 你 們 跟 法 務 部 ﹗ 我 們 會 跟 法 務 部 這 邊 來 洽 商 , 好 嗎 ?\n\n44\n00:15:19,266 --> 00:15:35,708\n法 務 部 可 以 嗎 ? 我 們 可 以 聯 繫 。 最 後 , 評 估 保 護 處 分 結 束 後 , 要 整 合 少 府 會 的 資 源 , 持 續 給 予 非 行 少 年 的 協 助 。 這 個 部 分 是 不 是 也 跟 地 方 政 府 聯 繫 一 下 ? 瞭 解 目 前 地 方 政 府 設 置 了 少 府 會 這 樣 的 聯 繫 匯 報 之 後 , 它 的 成 效 如 何 ? 可 以 嗎 ?\n\n45\n00:15:36,329 --> 00:15:38,031\n提 出 一 個 他 們 的 一 個 實 心 的 成 效 評 估 報 告\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10351\t20075\t主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關司法官員、會長、工作夥伴、記者媒體女士先生有請司法院吳秘書長好,麻煩吳秘書長委員好\n26673\t27814\t法定人數不足\n52458\t73742\t請問秘書長是不是你們昨天有開這樣的一個會議?院會?昨天有是的有那我們看一下我們這個少年受管訓處分在早年1976年增訂了83條之一他本來是宣告完畢後5年而未到受宣告就視為未承受該宣告是不是這樣?\n74542\t90038\t那到1997年呢在83條之一呢你們把5年改為3年那增加了轉介處分不護審理或不護保護處分的裁定那為什麼昨天的院會你們講把改成說未在因故意觸犯刑法才做這樣的規定能不能說明一下\n90937\t112275\t大概就是我們有去參考就是65年當時的這樣一個就是徒消前科他其實是有一個要件就是說必須是三年內他沒有再觸犯這些刑法法律受到管訓的宣告跟刑的宣告那有這樣的一個維持善良品性的一個要件那我們認為應該是要把它恢復回來\n113416\t125905\t所以在1976年跟1997年的修訂忽略了這一條,所以你把它恢復就對了?是。好,往下看齁。那麼除李少年這樣徒消棄置之外,有沒有其他任何降低少年再犯可能性的作為呢?秘書長。\n128056\t153301\t跟委員報告我想一個少年他透過一個犯罪其實就是一個學習的過程所以在司法介入我們是主要的目的是要去恢復家庭跟教育的功能跟社區的功能那所以其實如何預防再犯犯罪學裡面的預防再犯其實是一種這個一個方向其實我們現在行政院有一個犯罪預防方案的一個這樣一個措施那整個少年司法介入也是要預防\n154181\t176726\t好,預防,你講了很多次的預防,謝謝廳長。來,我們來分析一下,其實目前的少年犯罪跟早年,我們剛剛以前想像說的戰後嬰兒潮在青少年階段血氣方剛,那麼暴力犯罪的事情占比相對多。其實我們去參考,很多國家都這樣,其實暴力犯罪跟那個人口結構是有關的。\n177546\t193846\t如果當戰後嬰兒潮的人數在進入的新少年期到壯年期的時候他們因為從事暴力犯罪的可能性具有那個本錢所以較高但是我們看看這幾年來新少年的嫌疑犯的24%是涉詐期比例是最高的你們有沒有注意到這個犯罪行為的轉變\n195615\t217412\t有的我們這個在近幾年來是有這樣的一個趨勢是的那但是呢我們這些屬於詐欺的輕罪他終結呢都是以保護管束或者說在假日輔導為主那我們看一下在這個圖表當中107年到111年大概呢絕大部分的將近六成是保護管束還有三成的是訓誡或是加入輔導我請教一下訓誡是由誰為之加入輔導由誰為之\n222612\t247926\t訓誡由法官維持,教育生活輔導由少年保護官很好,說到關鍵字了,這七個字,少年保護官,還有這五個字,好來,我們來看一下那如果在過程當中輔導資源不足,那少年呢我們觀察到很容易回頭來投靠幫派我們來看一下在2022年的司法業務年報當中,過去十年受調查的少年當中三千多人當中,經常犯罪的降了三成\n248726\t267783\t那他們在什麼地方在經常犯罪呢?我們看一下從學校的偏差行為到地方政府的少輔會因為處罰進入了少年法院裁定之後他或者是訓誡或者是假日輔導或者保護管束或者安置機構或者感化教育那我們來看一下在學校端目前我們的學輔法呢輔導老師啊高中每12班才一名啊\n268664\t280456\t國中每15班才一名,今天有教育部的副署長在,其實我們都看到這個預防的部分,在三級預防的部分,的確是資源有限,是不是這樣子?教育部是不是也覺得資源是有限的?\n281657\t299306\t我們會努力爭取,其實包括修法再修,我們也會增加專業輔導人力好,但是我們今天談的是司法院主責的部分在保護處分後,我們的聯繫跟轉嫌會議是不是由邵保官來主責呢?我們來看一下\n300026\t323512\t根據我們的少年法院與相關機關處理少年事件聯繫辦法第28條規定其實從少關所,現在已經改名了,出來的收容少年他要進行評估必要的時候相關的主管機關,你看,包含什麼?要支援的聯繫匯報,要求包括少年法院、社政、教育、輔導、衛生醫療、警政跟勞政因為我過去在地方政府我是擔任副首長\n324392\t344116\t副首長通常就是一些這種聯繫匯報的副主任委員也就在主任委員、縣市首長不能主持會議的時候都是委由副主任委員來出席是不是副首長是不是這樣?是沒錯齁?都是副首長那請問一下可能因為秘書長對這個業務比較還是交給廳長來回答了齁聯繫跟轉銜誰來主責?\n350291\t366977\t跟委員報告如果說是保護官的業務會有保護官來主責但是有些時候像涉及到地方政府的局處我目前有這個二級聯繫會會由院長、地方保安院院長跟地方政府的首長去召開相關局處的聯繫會其實您剛講那個關鍵字啦其實就這樣的一個轉弦的機制來講呢聯繫匯報的行政機關的協調當然是以這些主管或首長\n376280\t376300\t委員會議長\n397729\t399510\t請問司法院每名保護管束的少年平均可以見到幾次少保官?\n418075\t419036\t前半年你聲音大一點好嗎不好意思\n432591\t434093\t就前半年、前三個月每個月兩次\n450091\t450191\t主席\n467941\t486007\t告知啊 判個假日生活輔導 經少管所幾個月 出來再加個保護管束對少年來講 不痛不癢 沒有什麼約束力你就根本就是每個月去法院給關護人 他不知道是少保官啦關護人是成年犯啦 給人看一下 根本看不出什麼東西請問少保官跟他們 個案接觸是要看什麼要看什麼\n491981\t509939\t關於報告的部分我們其實會就他的一些生活狀況還有就學就業的情形去做一些瞭解那就是書面的嗎?還是口頭的詢問?除了口頭以外我們還會有一些資料詢問好那我們來看一下會跟他瞭解一下他在學的狀況如果你們需要對個案有瞭解我們看保護處分的量有多大你看一下齁\n510780\t537079\t在我目前看起來呢我們的這個最近5年來少年法院裁定保護處分的案件數呢單單是2023年到11月為止就超過8000多件那以我們編制數來講呢目前是有不足啦還有缺額目前還缺了10個那一個少保官要負責100個個案是不是這樣子你覺得100個個案一個月他要跟他見一次面要深入的去了解他的生活狀況你覺得夠嗎\n540770\t559316\t所以我們這次有提出那個就是希望可以增額的一個計畫所以你們認為編制不足要增額可是我跟你講啊 任何行政機關不管是你們的法官助理、司法事務官、檢察官助理、檢察事務官、檢察官助理或法官助理 通通人總都跟你講什麼秘書長 人總你們遇到這種事 人總都跟你講什麼目前 他們\n567346\t570447\t行事案件當中少年犯罪主要原因、心理因素\n597119\t599301\t這兩個因素我們都看得清楚其實就是需要個人有人去關心他、有人去指導他,是不是這樣子?\n619157\t631282\t這心理因素嘛,心理因素你沒辦法透過外面的社會連結的部分是的,社會連結跟他的心理因素,好,我們現在看那所以呢,其實我這邊提醒一下,司法院本身之外,根深保護會在做什麼事情?那個,秘書長你知道根保護會在做什麼嗎?\n636769\t656363\t深深保護就是對於比如說從矯正機關回到社區那要協助他能夠受社會適應所以說他的保護的範圍包括什麼受少年管訓處分執行完畢者還有在關護人關護中的少年因為這個法用詞沒有修過啦他在保護管署執行中有沒有包括我們這個少年\n657063\t675534\t當然有嘛我們查了一下他過去呢每年他的預算規模大概3億我們司法院邊預算補助他2億1還有他的其他收入但每年呢大概都用不完都還有剩我4千多萬累計的餘出呢已經還剩了7億多啊聽長你知道他有剩這麼多錢嗎\n677741\t695263\t不知道我幫你整理出來了所以我們來看一下那麼既然基金會有餘裕他可不可以協助少年來保護管束業務我們看一下他目前他一整年每年我們有八九千件的保護處分案件他一整年做了多少件\n696889\t725424\t福的更生人更生人做了700多個少年的才120幾個您覺得秘書長這就要換你來請教一下了您覺得耕保會的能量可不可以拿來好好運用這個應該要互相支援互相支援所以你覺得司法院每年編2億1000萬給耕保會你覺得可不可以透過耕保會透過他們聘用包括專職的社工、心理或這些非少保官核心業務的人來協助少保官執行這個保護管束業務\n728335\t737928\t這個應該盡量來...對,跟委員報告這個部分兩議應該是法務部...是法務部編的啊?那我問錯人了,法務部?來,剛好,法務部來來來,問你們最好了,他們...\n739994\t754605\t我們的徐市長,您覺得這個提議這個部分我們更生保護會我們是會來協助但是就是這些少年他們有他\n758748\t759669\t司法院議員\n780285\t799556\t透過我們基金會的協助可以聘一些人力來協助少保官你覺得有沒有可行性更生保護是需要當事人申請不過這一個部分我們會加強跟少年保庭橫向聯繫跟溝通提升他的案量來我告訴你你們就現有法制來我們看一下\n800516\t814244\t來我們2019年齁那個我們的少司法修法才行政先行嘛對於負險少年偏差行為少年我們都列入我們的輔導之列往下看所以呢我們有一個叫少府會我們秘書長或次長你們知道少府會嗎\n815492\t841461\t知道嗎 對不對少年輔導委員會的設置及輔導實施辦法第二條為什麼我特別提呢因為我過去在擔任地方政府的副首長的時候我當副縣長的時候我常常主持類似的會議但當時呢並沒有少輔會這種東西是後來我們修法之後少數法修法之後才增加的他這邊寫地方政府所設置的要整合包括什麼社政教育、衛政、戶政、警政、民政、勞政、財政還有毒品危害的防治\n844702\t872673\t那所以呢他這些呢他這個聯繫中心他可以向少年法院提出處理的需求所以說在保護組問組結束後如果能夠整合少會的資源讓少年持續來接受協助我希望你們要善用地方這種這個聯繫匯報把耕保會的資源也納入到這個聯繫匯報當中讓耕保會不是代當事人提出申請而是遞由聯繫匯報提出所以我最後的訴求因為主委已經響鈴了齁\n874774\t881839\t為了強化少年離開少關所、矯正學校或聯繫轉弦會議的機制,請修正事法明定由少保關主責。\n885626\t903521\t這個部分本來就是由保護官去執行保護處分後面的聯繫跟轉銜會議的機制當然現在我們的少事法42條6項在保護處分執行中就是可以像委員你剛提到的包括我們未來可以跟更生保護會去做一個很好的聯繫那你已經講到第二點了\n904281\t918026\t除了我們設法增補我們少保官的編制元額之外請你們評估運用多元的人力資源,比如說更生保護會來提供心理、社政的協助降低再犯,並一個月提供報告,可以嗎?你們跟法務部﹗我們會跟法務部這邊來洽商,好嗎?\n919266\t935708\t法務部可以嗎?我們可以聯繫。最後,評估保護處分結束後,要整合少府會的資源,持續給予非行少年的協助。這個部分是不是也跟地方政府聯繫一下?瞭解目前地方政府設置了少府會這樣的聯繫匯報之後,它的成效如何?可以嗎?\n936329\t938031\t提出一個他們的一個實心的成效評估報告\n","txt":"主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關司法官員、會長、工作夥伴、記者媒體女士先生有請司法院吳秘書長好,麻煩吳秘書長委員好\n法定人數不足\n請問秘書長是不是你們昨天有開這樣的一個會議?院會?昨天有是的有那我們看一下我們這個少年受管訓處分在早年1976年增訂了83條之一他本來是宣告完畢後5年而未到受宣告就視為未承受該宣告是不是這樣?\n那到1997年呢在83條之一呢你們把5年改為3年那增加了轉介處分不護審理或不護保護處分的裁定那為什麼昨天的院會你們講把改成說未在因故意觸犯刑法才做這樣的規定能不能說明一下\n大概就是我們有去參考就是65年當時的這樣一個就是徒消前科他其實是有一個要件就是說必須是三年內他沒有再觸犯這些刑法法律受到管訓的宣告跟刑的宣告那有這樣的一個維持善良品性的一個要件那我們認為應該是要把它恢復回來\n所以在1976年跟1997年的修訂忽略了這一條,所以你把它恢復就對了?是。好,往下看齁。那麼除李少年這樣徒消棄置之外,有沒有其他任何降低少年再犯可能性的作為呢?秘書長。\n跟委員報告我想一個少年他透過一個犯罪其實就是一個學習的過程所以在司法介入我們是主要的目的是要去恢復家庭跟教育的功能跟社區的功能那所以其實如何預防再犯犯罪學裡面的預防再犯其實是一種這個一個方向其實我們現在行政院有一個犯罪預防方案的一個這樣一個措施那整個少年司法介入也是要預防\n好,預防,你講了很多次的預防,謝謝廳長。來,我們來分析一下,其實目前的少年犯罪跟早年,我們剛剛以前想像說的戰後嬰兒潮在青少年階段血氣方剛,那麼暴力犯罪的事情占比相對多。其實我們去參考,很多國家都這樣,其實暴力犯罪跟那個人口結構是有關的。\n如果當戰後嬰兒潮的人數在進入的新少年期到壯年期的時候他們因為從事暴力犯罪的可能性具有那個本錢所以較高但是我們看看這幾年來新少年的嫌疑犯的24%是涉詐期比例是最高的你們有沒有注意到這個犯罪行為的轉變\n有的我們這個在近幾年來是有這樣的一個趨勢是的那但是呢我們這些屬於詐欺的輕罪他終結呢都是以保護管束或者說在假日輔導為主那我們看一下在這個圖表當中107年到111年大概呢絕大部分的將近六成是保護管束還有三成的是訓誡或是加入輔導我請教一下訓誡是由誰為之加入輔導由誰為之\n訓誡由法官維持,教育生活輔導由少年保護官很好,說到關鍵字了,這七個字,少年保護官,還有這五個字,好來,我們來看一下那如果在過程當中輔導資源不足,那少年呢我們觀察到很容易回頭來投靠幫派我們來看一下在2022年的司法業務年報當中,過去十年受調查的少年當中三千多人當中,經常犯罪的降了三成\n那他們在什麼地方在經常犯罪呢?我們看一下從學校的偏差行為到地方政府的少輔會因為處罰進入了少年法院裁定之後他或者是訓誡或者是假日輔導或者保護管束或者安置機構或者感化教育那我們來看一下在學校端目前我們的學輔法呢輔導老師啊高中每12班才一名啊\n國中每15班才一名,今天有教育部的副署長在,其實我們都看到這個預防的部分,在三級預防的部分,的確是資源有限,是不是這樣子?教育部是不是也覺得資源是有限的?\n我們會努力爭取,其實包括修法再修,我們也會增加專業輔導人力好,但是我們今天談的是司法院主責的部分在保護處分後,我們的聯繫跟轉嫌會議是不是由邵保官來主責呢?我們來看一下\n根據我們的少年法院與相關機關處理少年事件聯繫辦法第28條規定其實從少關所,現在已經改名了,出來的收容少年他要進行評估必要的時候相關的主管機關,你看,包含什麼?要支援的聯繫匯報,要求包括少年法院、社政、教育、輔導、衛生醫療、警政跟勞政因為我過去在地方政府我是擔任副首長\n副首長通常就是一些這種聯繫匯報的副主任委員也就在主任委員、縣市首長不能主持會議的時候都是委由副主任委員來出席是不是副首長是不是這樣?是沒錯齁?都是副首長那請問一下可能因為秘書長對這個業務比較還是交給廳長來回答了齁聯繫跟轉銜誰來主責?\n跟委員報告如果說是保護官的業務會有保護官來主責但是有些時候像涉及到地方政府的局處我目前有這個二級聯繫會會由院長、地方保安院院長跟地方政府的首長去召開相關局處的聯繫會其實您剛講那個關鍵字啦其實就這樣的一個轉弦的機制來講呢聯繫匯報的行政機關的協調當然是以這些主管或首長\n委員會議長\n請問司法院每名保護管束的少年平均可以見到幾次少保官?\n前半年你聲音大一點好嗎不好意思\n就前半年、前三個月每個月兩次\n主席\n告知啊 判個假日生活輔導 經少管所幾個月 出來再加個保護管束對少年來講 不痛不癢 沒有什麼約束力你就根本就是每個月去法院給關護人 他不知道是少保官啦關護人是成年犯啦 給人看一下 根本看不出什麼東西請問少保官跟他們 個案接觸是要看什麼要看什麼\n關於報告的部分我們其實會就他的一些生活狀況還有就學就業的情形去做一些瞭解那就是書面的嗎?還是口頭的詢問?除了口頭以外我們還會有一些資料詢問好那我們來看一下會跟他瞭解一下他在學的狀況如果你們需要對個案有瞭解我們看保護處分的量有多大你看一下齁\n在我目前看起來呢我們的這個最近5年來少年法院裁定保護處分的案件數呢單單是2023年到11月為止就超過8000多件那以我們編制數來講呢目前是有不足啦還有缺額目前還缺了10個那一個少保官要負責100個個案是不是這樣子你覺得100個個案一個月他要跟他見一次面要深入的去了解他的生活狀況你覺得夠嗎\n所以我們這次有提出那個就是希望可以增額的一個計畫所以你們認為編制不足要增額可是我跟你講啊 任何行政機關不管是你們的法官助理、司法事務官、檢察官助理、檢察事務官、檢察官助理或法官助理 通通人總都跟你講什麼秘書長 人總你們遇到這種事 人總都跟你講什麼目前 他們\n行事案件當中少年犯罪主要原因、心理因素\n這兩個因素我們都看得清楚其實就是需要個人有人去關心他、有人去指導他,是不是這樣子?\n這心理因素嘛,心理因素你沒辦法透過外面的社會連結的部分是的,社會連結跟他的心理因素,好,我們現在看那所以呢,其實我這邊提醒一下,司法院本身之外,根深保護會在做什麼事情?那個,秘書長你知道根保護會在做什麼嗎?\n深深保護就是對於比如說從矯正機關回到社區那要協助他能夠受社會適應所以說他的保護的範圍包括什麼受少年管訓處分執行完畢者還有在關護人關護中的少年因為這個法用詞沒有修過啦他在保護管署執行中有沒有包括我們這個少年\n當然有嘛我們查了一下他過去呢每年他的預算規模大概3億我們司法院邊預算補助他2億1還有他的其他收入但每年呢大概都用不完都還有剩我4千多萬累計的餘出呢已經還剩了7億多啊聽長你知道他有剩這麼多錢嗎\n不知道我幫你整理出來了所以我們來看一下那麼既然基金會有餘裕他可不可以協助少年來保護管束業務我們看一下他目前他一整年每年我們有八九千件的保護處分案件他一整年做了多少件\n福的更生人更生人做了700多個少年的才120幾個您覺得秘書長這就要換你來請教一下了您覺得耕保會的能量可不可以拿來好好運用這個應該要互相支援互相支援所以你覺得司法院每年編2億1000萬給耕保會你覺得可不可以透過耕保會透過他們聘用包括專職的社工、心理或這些非少保官核心業務的人來協助少保官執行這個保護管束業務\n這個應該盡量來...對,跟委員報告這個部分兩議應該是法務部...是法務部編的啊?那我問錯人了,法務部?來,剛好,法務部來來來,問你們最好了,他們...\n我們的徐市長,您覺得這個提議這個部分我們更生保護會我們是會來協助但是就是這些少年他們有他\n司法院議員\n透過我們基金會的協助可以聘一些人力來協助少保官你覺得有沒有可行性更生保護是需要當事人申請不過這一個部分我們會加強跟少年保庭橫向聯繫跟溝通提升他的案量來我告訴你你們就現有法制來我們看一下\n來我們2019年齁那個我們的少司法修法才行政先行嘛對於負險少年偏差行為少年我們都列入我們的輔導之列往下看所以呢我們有一個叫少府會我們秘書長或次長你們知道少府會嗎\n知道嗎 對不對少年輔導委員會的設置及輔導實施辦法第二條為什麼我特別提呢因為我過去在擔任地方政府的副首長的時候我當副縣長的時候我常常主持類似的會議但當時呢並沒有少輔會這種東西是後來我們修法之後少數法修法之後才增加的他這邊寫地方政府所設置的要整合包括什麼社政教育、衛政、戶政、警政、民政、勞政、財政還有毒品危害的防治\n那所以呢他這些呢他這個聯繫中心他可以向少年法院提出處理的需求所以說在保護組問組結束後如果能夠整合少會的資源讓少年持續來接受協助我希望你們要善用地方這種這個聯繫匯報把耕保會的資源也納入到這個聯繫匯報當中讓耕保會不是代當事人提出申請而是遞由聯繫匯報提出所以我最後的訴求因為主委已經響鈴了齁\n為了強化少年離開少關所、矯正學校或聯繫轉弦會議的機制,請修正事法明定由少保關主責。\n這個部分本來就是由保護官去執行保護處分後面的聯繫跟轉銜會議的機制當然現在我們的少事法42條6項在保護處分執行中就是可以像委員你剛提到的包括我們未來可以跟更生保護會去做一個很好的聯繫那你已經講到第二點了\n除了我們設法增補我們少保官的編制元額之外請你們評估運用多元的人力資源,比如說更生保護會來提供心理、社政的協助降低再犯,並一個月提供報告,可以嗎?你們跟法務部﹗我們會跟法務部這邊來洽商,好嗎?\n法務部可以嗎?我們可以聯繫。最後,評估保護處分結束後,要整合少府會的資源,持續給予非行少年的協助。這個部分是不是也跟地方政府聯繫一下?瞭解目前地方政府設置了少府會這樣的聯繫匯報之後,它的成效如何?可以嗎?\n提出一個他們的一個實心的成效評估報告\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.351 --> 00:20.075\n主 席 、 在 場 的 委 員 先 進 、 列 席 的 政 府 機 關 司 法 官 員 、 會 長 、 工 作 夥 伴 、 記 者 媒 體 女 士 先 生 有 請 司 法 院 吳 秘 書 長 好 , 麻 煩 吳 秘 書 長 委 員 好\n\n00:26.673 --> 00:27.814\n法 定 人 數 不 足\n\n00:52.458 --> 01:13.742\n請 問 秘 書 長 是 不 是 你 們 昨 天 有 開 這 樣 的 一 個 會 議 ? 院 會 ? 昨 天 有 是 的 有 那 我 們 看 一 下 我 們 這 個 少 年 受 管 訓 處 分 在 早 年 1 9 7 6 年 增 訂 了 8 3 條 之 一 他 本 來 是 宣 告 完 畢 後 5 年 而 未 到 受 宣 告 就 視 為 未 承 受 該 宣 告 是 不 是 這 樣 ?\n\n01:14.542 --> 01:30.038\n那 到 1 9 9 7 年 呢 在 8 3 條 之 一 呢 你 們 把 5 年 改 為 3 年 那 增 加 了 轉 介 處 分 不 護 審 理 或 不 護 保 護 處 分 的 裁 定 那 為 什 麼 昨 天 的 院 會 你 們 講 把 改 成 說 未 在 因 故 意 觸 犯 刑 法 才 做 這 樣 的 規 定 能 不 能 說 明 一 下\n\n01:30.937 --> 01:52.275\n大 概 就 是 我 們 有 去 參 考 就 是 6 5 年 當 時 的 這 樣 一 個 就 是 徒 消 前 科 他 其 實 是 有 一 個 要 件 就 是 說 必 須 是 三 年 內 他 沒 有 再 觸 犯 這 些 刑 法 法 律 受 到 管 訓 的 宣 告 跟 刑 的 宣 告 那 有 這 樣 的 一 個 維 持 善 良 品 性 的 一 個 要 件 那 我 們 認 為 應 該 是 要 把 它 恢 復 回 來\n\n01:53.416 --> 02:05.905\n所 以 在 1 9 7 6 年 跟 1 9 9 7 年 的 修 訂 忽 略 了 這 一 條 , 所 以 你 把 它 恢 復 就 對 了 ? 是 。 好 , 往 下 看 齁 。 那 麼 除 李 少 年 這 樣 徒 消 棄 置 之 外 , 有 沒 有 其 他 任 何 降 低 少 年 再 犯 可 能 性 的 作 為 呢 ? 秘 書 長 。\n\n02:08.056 --> 02:33.301\n跟 委 員 報 告 我 想 一 個 少 年 他 透 過 一 個 犯 罪 其 實 就 是 一 個 學 習 的 過 程 所 以 在 司 法 介 入 我 們 是 主 要 的 目 的 是 要 去 恢 復 家 庭 跟 教 育 的 功 能 跟 社 區 的 功 能 那 所 以 其 實 如 何 預 防 再 犯 犯 罪 學 裡 面 的 預 防 再 犯 其 實 是 一 種 這 個 一 個 方 向 其 實 我 們 現 在 行 政 院 有 一 個 犯 罪 預 防 方 案 的 一 個 這 樣 一 個 措 施 那 整 個 少 年 司 法 介 入 也 是 要 預 防\n\n02:34.181 --> 02:56.726\n好 , 預 防 , 你 講 了 很 多 次 的 預 防 , 謝 謝 廳 長 。 來 , 我 們 來 分 析 一 下 , 其 實 目 前 的 少 年 犯 罪 跟 早 年 , 我 們 剛 剛 以 前 想 像 說 的 戰 後 嬰 兒 潮 在 青 少 年 階 段 血 氣 方 剛 , 那 麼 暴 力 犯 罪 的 事 情 占 比 相 對 多 。 其 實 我 們 去 參 考 , 很 多 國 家 都 這 樣 , 其 實 暴 力 犯 罪 跟 那 個 人 口 結 構 是 有 關 的 。\n\n02:57.546 --> 03:13.846\n如 果 當 戰 後 嬰 兒 潮 的 人 數 在 進 入 的 新 少 年 期 到 壯 年 期 的 時 候 他 們 因 為 從 事 暴 力 犯 罪 的 可 能 性 具 有 那 個 本 錢 所 以 較 高 但 是 我 們 看 看 這 幾 年 來 新 少 年 的 嫌 疑 犯 的 2 4 % 是 涉 詐 期 比 例 是 最 高 的 你 們 有 沒 有 注 意 到 這 個 犯 罪 行 為 的 轉 變\n\n03:15.615 --> 03:37.412\n有 的 我 們 這 個 在 近 幾 年 來 是 有 這 樣 的 一 個 趨 勢 是 的 那 但 是 呢 我 們 這 些 屬 於 詐 欺 的 輕 罪 他 終 結 呢 都 是 以 保 護 管 束 或 者 說 在 假 日 輔 導 為 主 那 我 們 看 一 下 在 這 個 圖 表 當 中 1 0 7 年 到 1 1 1 年 大 概 呢 絕 大 部 分 的 將 近 六 成 是 保 護 管 束 還 有 三 成 的 是 訓 誡 或 是 加 入 輔 導 我 請 教 一 下 訓 誡 是 由 誰 為 之 加 入 輔 導 由 誰 為 之\n\n03:42.612 --> 04:07.926\n訓 誡 由 法 官 維 持 , 教 育 生 活 輔 導 由 少 年 保 護 官 很 好 , 說 到 關 鍵 字 了 , 這 七 個 字 , 少 年 保 護 官 , 還 有 這 五 個 字 , 好 來 , 我 們 來 看 一 下 那 如 果 在 過 程 當 中 輔 導 資 源 不 足 , 那 少 年 呢 我 們 觀 察 到 很 容 易 回 頭 來 投 靠 幫 派 我 們 來 看 一 下 在 2 0 2 2 年 的 司 法 業 務 年 報 當 中 , 過 去 十 年 受 調 查 的 少 年 當 中 三 千 多 人 當 中 , 經 常 犯 罪 的 降 了 三 成\n\n04:08.726 --> 04:27.783\n那 他 們 在 什 麼 地 方 在 經 常 犯 罪 呢 ? 我 們 看 一 下 從 學 校 的 偏 差 行 為 到 地 方 政 府 的 少 輔 會 因 為 處 罰 進 入 了 少 年 法 院 裁 定 之 後 他 或 者 是 訓 誡 或 者 是 假 日 輔 導 或 者 保 護 管 束 或 者 安 置 機 構 或 者 感 化 教 育 那 我 們 來 看 一 下 在 學 校 端 目 前 我 們 的 學 輔 法 呢 輔 導 老 師 啊 高 中 每 1 2 班 才 一 名 啊\n\n04:28.664 --> 04:40.456\n國 中 每 1 5 班 才 一 名 , 今 天 有 教 育 部 的 副 署 長 在 , 其 實 我 們 都 看 到 這 個 預 防 的 部 分 , 在 三 級 預 防 的 部 分 , 的 確 是 資 源 有 限 , 是 不 是 這 樣 子 ? 教 育 部 是 不 是 也 覺 得 資 源 是 有 限 的 ?\n\n04:41.657 --> 04:59.306\n我 們 會 努 力 爭 取 , 其 實 包 括 修 法 再 修 , 我 們 也 會 增 加 專 業 輔 導 人 力 好 , 但 是 我 們 今 天 談 的 是 司 法 院 主 責 的 部 分 在 保 護 處 分 後 , 我 們 的 聯 繫 跟 轉 嫌 會 議 是 不 是 由 邵 保 官 來 主 責 呢 ? 我 們 來 看 一 下\n\n05:00.026 --> 05:23.512\n根 據 我 們 的 少 年 法 院 與 相 關 機 關 處 理 少 年 事 件 聯 繫 辦 法 第 2 8 條 規 定 其 實 從 少 關 所 , 現 在 已 經 改 名 了 , 出 來 的 收 容 少 年 他 要 進 行 評 估 必 要 的 時 候 相 關 的 主 管 機 關 , 你 看 , 包 含 什 麼 ? 要 支 援 的 聯 繫 匯 報 , 要 求 包 括 少 年 法 院 、 社 政 、 教 育 、 輔 導 、 衛 生 醫 療 、 警 政 跟 勞 政 因 為 我 過 去 在 地 方 政 府 我 是 擔 任 副 首 長\n\n05:24.392 --> 05:44.116\n副 首 長 通 常 就 是 一 些 這 種 聯 繫 匯 報 的 副 主 任 委 員 也 就 在 主 任 委 員 、 縣 市 首 長 不 能 主 持 會 議 的 時 候 都 是 委 由 副 主 任 委 員 來 出 席 是 不 是 副 首 長 是 不 是 這 樣 ? 是 沒 錯 齁 ? 都 是 副 首 長 那 請 問 一 下 可 能 因 為 秘 書 長 對 這 個 業 務 比 較 還 是 交 給 廳 長 來 回 答 了 齁 聯 繫 跟 轉 銜 誰 來 主 責 ?\n\n05:50.291 --> 06:06.977\n跟 委 員 報 告 如 果 說 是 保 護 官 的 業 務 會 有 保 護 官 來 主 責 但 是 有 些 時 候 像 涉 及 到 地 方 政 府 的 局 處 我 目 前 有 這 個 二 級 聯 繫 會 會 由 院 長 、 地 方 保 安 院 院 長 跟 地 方 政 府 的 首 長 去 召 開 相 關 局 處 的 聯 繫 會 其 實 您 剛 講 那 個 關 鍵 字 啦 其 實 就 這 樣 的 一 個 轉 弦 的 機 制 來 講 呢 聯 繫 匯 報 的 行 政 機 關 的 協 調 當 然 是 以 這 些 主 管 或 首 長\n\n06:16.280 --> 06:16.300\n委 員 會 議 長\n\n06:37.729 --> 06:39.510\n請 問 司 法 院 每 名 保 護 管 束 的 少 年 平 均 可 以 見 到 幾 次 少 保 官 ?\n\n06:58.075 --> 06:59.036\n前 半 年 你 聲 音 大 一 點 好 嗎 不 好 意 思\n\n07:12.591 --> 07:14.093\n就 前 半 年 、 前 三 個 月 每 個 月 兩 次\n\n07:30.091 --> 07:30.191\n主 席\n\n07:47.941 --> 08:06.007\n告 知 啊 判 個 假 日 生 活 輔 導 經 少 管 所 幾 個 月 出 來 再 加 個 保 護 管 束 對 少 年 來 講 不 痛 不 癢 沒 有 什 麼 約 束 力 你 就 根 本 就 是 每 個 月 去 法 院 給 關 護 人 他 不 知 道 是 少 保 官 啦 關 護 人 是 成 年 犯 啦 給 人 看 一 下 根 本 看 不 出 什 麼 東 西 請 問 少 保 官 跟 他 們 個 案 接 觸 是 要 看 什 麼 要 看 什 麼\n\n08:11.981 --> 08:29.939\n關 於 報 告 的 部 分 我 們 其 實 會 就 他 的 一 些 生 活 狀 況 還 有 就 學 就 業 的 情 形 去 做 一 些 瞭 解 那 就 是 書 面 的 嗎 ? 還 是 口 頭 的 詢 問 ? 除 了 口 頭 以 外 我 們 還 會 有 一 些 資 料 詢 問 好 那 我 們 來 看 一 下 會 跟 他 瞭 解 一 下 他 在 學 的 狀 況 如 果 你 們 需 要 對 個 案 有 瞭 解 我 們 看 保 護 處 分 的 量 有 多 大 你 看 一 下 齁\n\n08:30.780 --> 08:57.079\n在 我 目 前 看 起 來 呢 我 們 的 這 個 最 近 5 年 來 少 年 法 院 裁 定 保 護 處 分 的 案 件 數 呢 單 單 是 2 0 2 3 年 到 1 1 月 為 止 就 超 過 8 0 0 0 多 件 那 以 我 們 編 制 數 來 講 呢 目 前 是 有 不 足 啦 還 有 缺 額 目 前 還 缺 了 1 0 個 那 一 個 少 保 官 要 負 責 1 0 0 個 個 案 是 不 是 這 樣 子 你 覺 得 1 0 0 個 個 案 一 個 月 他 要 跟 他 見 一 次 面 要 深 入 的 去 了 解 他 的 生 活 狀 況 你 覺 得 夠 嗎\n\n09:00.770 --> 09:19.316\n所 以 我 們 這 次 有 提 出 那 個 就 是 希 望 可 以 增 額 的 一 個 計 畫 所 以 你 們 認 為 編 制 不 足 要 增 額 可 是 我 跟 你 講 啊 任 何 行 政 機 關 不 管 是 你 們 的 法 官 助 理 、 司 法 事 務 官 、 檢 察 官 助 理 、 檢 察 事 務 官 、 檢 察 官 助 理 或 法 官 助 理 通 通 人 總 都 跟 你 講 什 麼 秘 書 長 人 總 你 們 遇 到 這 種 事 人 總 都 跟 你 講 什 麼 目 前 他 們\n\n09:27.346 --> 09:30.447\n行 事 案 件 當 中 少 年 犯 罪 主 要 原 因 、 心 理 因 素\n\n09:57.119 --> 09:59.301\n這 兩 個 因 素 我 們 都 看 得 清 楚 其 實 就 是 需 要 個 人 有 人 去 關 心 他 、 有 人 去 指 導 他 , 是 不 是 這 樣 子 ?\n\n10:19.157 --> 10:31.282\n這 心 理 因 素 嘛 , 心 理 因 素 你 沒 辦 法 透 過 外 面 的 社 會 連 結 的 部 分 是 的 , 社 會 連 結 跟 他 的 心 理 因 素 , 好 , 我 們 現 在 看 那 所 以 呢 , 其 實 我 這 邊 提 醒 一 下 , 司 法 院 本 身 之 外 , 根 深 保 護 會 在 做 什 麼 事 情 ? 那 個 , 秘 書 長 你 知 道 根 保 護 會 在 做 什 麼 嗎 ?\n\n10:36.769 --> 10:56.363\n深 深 保 護 就 是 對 於 比 如 說 從 矯 正 機 關 回 到 社 區 那 要 協 助 他 能 夠 受 社 會 適 應 所 以 說 他 的 保 護 的 範 圍 包 括 什 麼 受 少 年 管 訓 處 分 執 行 完 畢 者 還 有 在 關 護 人 關 護 中 的 少 年 因 為 這 個 法 用 詞 沒 有 修 過 啦 他 在 保 護 管 署 執 行 中 有 沒 有 包 括 我 們 這 個 少 年\n\n10:57.063 --> 11:15.534\n當 然 有 嘛 我 們 查 了 一 下 他 過 去 呢 每 年 他 的 預 算 規 模 大 概 3 億 我 們 司 法 院 邊 預 算 補 助 他 2 億 1 還 有 他 的 其 他 收 入 但 每 年 呢 大 概 都 用 不 完 都 還 有 剩 我 4 千 多 萬 累 計 的 餘 出 呢 已 經 還 剩 了 7 億 多 啊 聽 長 你 知 道 他 有 剩 這 麼 多 錢 嗎\n\n11:17.741 --> 11:35.263\n不 知 道 我 幫 你 整 理 出 來 了 所 以 我 們 來 看 一 下 那 麼 既 然 基 金 會 有 餘 裕 他 可 不 可 以 協 助 少 年 來 保 護 管 束 業 務 我 們 看 一 下 他 目 前 他 一 整 年 每 年 我 們 有 八 九 千 件 的 保 護 處 分 案 件 他 一 整 年 做 了 多 少 件\n\n11:36.889 --> 12:05.424\n福 的 更 生 人 更 生 人 做 了 7 0 0 多 個 少 年 的 才 1 2 0 幾 個 您 覺 得 秘 書 長 這 就 要 換 你 來 請 教 一 下 了 您 覺 得 耕 保 會 的 能 量 可 不 可 以 拿 來 好 好 運 用 這 個 應 該 要 互 相 支 援 互 相 支 援 所 以 你 覺 得 司 法 院 每 年 編 2 億 1 0 0 0 萬 給 耕 保 會 你 覺 得 可 不 可 以 透 過 耕 保 會 透 過 他 們 聘 用 包 括 專 職 的 社 工 、 心 理 或 這 些 非 少 保 官 核 心 業 務 的 人 來 協 助 少 保 官 執 行 這 個 保 護 管 束 業 務\n\n12:08.335 --> 12:17.928\n這 個 應 該 盡 量 來 . . . 對 , 跟 委 員 報 告 這 個 部 分 兩 議 應 該 是 法 務 部 . . . 是 法 務 部 編 的 啊 ? 那 我 問 錯 人 了 , 法 務 部 ? 來 , 剛 好 , 法 務 部 來 來 來 , 問 你 們 最 好 了 , 他 們 . . .\n\n12:19.994 --> 12:34.605\n我 們 的 徐 市 長 , 您 覺 得 這 個 提 議 這 個 部 分 我 們 更 生 保 護 會 我 們 是 會 來 協 助 但 是 就 是 這 些 少 年 他 們 有 他\n\n12:38.748 --> 12:39.669\n司 法 院 議 員\n\n13:00.285 --> 13:19.556\n透 過 我 們 基 金 會 的 協 助 可 以 聘 一 些 人 力 來 協 助 少 保 官 你 覺 得 有 沒 有 可 行 性 更 生 保 護 是 需 要 當 事 人 申 請 不 過 這 一 個 部 分 我 們 會 加 強 跟 少 年 保 庭 橫 向 聯 繫 跟 溝 通 提 升 他 的 案 量 來 我 告 訴 你 你 們 就 現 有 法 制 來 我 們 看 一 下\n\n13:20.516 --> 13:34.244\n來 我 們 2 0 1 9 年 齁 那 個 我 們 的 少 司 法 修 法 才 行 政 先 行 嘛 對 於 負 險 少 年 偏 差 行 為 少 年 我 們 都 列 入 我 們 的 輔 導 之 列 往 下 看 所 以 呢 我 們 有 一 個 叫 少 府 會 我 們 秘 書 長 或 次 長 你 們 知 道 少 府 會 嗎\n\n13:35.492 --> 14:01.461\n知 道 嗎 對 不 對 少 年 輔 導 委 員 會 的 設 置 及 輔 導 實 施 辦 法 第 二 條 為 什 麼 我 特 別 提 呢 因 為 我 過 去 在 擔 任 地 方 政 府 的 副 首 長 的 時 候 我 當 副 縣 長 的 時 候 我 常 常 主 持 類 似 的 會 議 但 當 時 呢 並 沒 有 少 輔 會 這 種 東 西 是 後 來 我 們 修 法 之 後 少 數 法 修 法 之 後 才 增 加 的 他 這 邊 寫 地 方 政 府 所 設 置 的 要 整 合 包 括 什 麼 社 政 教 育 、 衛 政 、 戶 政 、 警 政 、 民 政 、 勞 政 、 財 政 還 有 毒 品 危 害 的 防 治\n\n14:04.702 --> 14:32.673\n那 所 以 呢 他 這 些 呢 他 這 個 聯 繫 中 心 他 可 以 向 少 年 法 院 提 出 處 理 的 需 求 所 以 說 在 保 護 組 問 組 結 束 後 如 果 能 夠 整 合 少 會 的 資 源 讓 少 年 持 續 來 接 受 協 助 我 希 望 你 們 要 善 用 地 方 這 種 這 個 聯 繫 匯 報 把 耕 保 會 的 資 源 也 納 入 到 這 個 聯 繫 匯 報 當 中 讓 耕 保 會 不 是 代 當 事 人 提 出 申 請 而 是 遞 由 聯 繫 匯 報 提 出 所 以 我 最 後 的 訴 求 因 為 主 委 已 經 響 鈴 了 齁\n\n14:34.774 --> 14:41.839\n為 了 強 化 少 年 離 開 少 關 所 、 矯 正 學 校 或 聯 繫 轉 弦 會 議 的 機 制 , 請 修 正 事 法 明 定 由 少 保 關 主 責 。\n\n14:45.626 --> 15:03.521\n這 個 部 分 本 來 就 是 由 保 護 官 去 執 行 保 護 處 分 後 面 的 聯 繫 跟 轉 銜 會 議 的 機 制 當 然 現 在 我 們 的 少 事 法 4 2 條 6 項 在 保 護 處 分 執 行 中 就 是 可 以 像 委 員 你 剛 提 到 的 包 括 我 們 未 來 可 以 跟 更 生 保 護 會 去 做 一 個 很 好 的 聯 繫 那 你 已 經 講 到 第 二 點 了\n\n15:04.281 --> 15:18.026\n除 了 我 們 設 法 增 補 我 們 少 保 官 的 編 制 元 額 之 外 請 你 們 評 估 運 用 多 元 的 人 力 資 源 , 比 如 說 更 生 保 護 會 來 提 供 心 理 、 社 政 的 協 助 降 低 再 犯 , 並 一 個 月 提 供 報 告 , 可 以 嗎 ? 你 們 跟 法 務 部 ﹗ 我 們 會 跟 法 務 部 這 邊 來 洽 商 , 好 嗎 ?\n\n15:19.266 --> 15:35.708\n法 務 部 可 以 嗎 ? 我 們 可 以 聯 繫 。 最 後 , 評 估 保 護 處 分 結 束 後 , 要 整 合 少 府 會 的 資 源 , 持 續 給 予 非 行 少 年 的 協 助 。 這 個 部 分 是 不 是 也 跟 地 方 政 府 聯 繫 一 下 ? 瞭 解 目 前 地 方 政 府 設 置 了 少 府 會 這 樣 的 聯 繫 匯 報 之 後 , 它 的 成 效 如 何 ? 可 以 嗎 ?\n\n15:36.329 --> 15:38.031\n提 出 一 個 他 們 的 一 個 實 心 的 成 效 評 估 報 告\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.351,"end":20.075,"text":"主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關司法官員、會長、工作夥伴、記者媒體女士先生有請司法院吳秘書長好,麻煩吳秘書長委員好"},{"start":26.673,"end":27.814,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":52.458,"end":73.742,"text":"請問秘書長是不是你們昨天有開這樣的一個會議?院會?昨天有是的有那我們看一下我們這個少年受管訓處分在早年1976年增訂了83條之一他本來是宣告完畢後5年而未到受宣告就視為未承受該宣告是不是這樣?"},{"start":74.542,"end":90.038,"text":"那到1997年呢在83條之一呢你們把5年改為3年那增加了轉介處分不護審理或不護保護處分的裁定那為什麼昨天的院會你們講把改成說未在因故意觸犯刑法才做這樣的規定能不能說明一下"},{"start":90.937,"end":112.275,"text":"大概就是我們有去參考就是65年當時的這樣一個就是徒消前科他其實是有一個要件就是說必須是三年內他沒有再觸犯這些刑法法律受到管訓的宣告跟刑的宣告那有這樣的一個維持善良品性的一個要件那我們認為應該是要把它恢復回來"},{"start":113.416,"end":125.905,"text":"所以在1976年跟1997年的修訂忽略了這一條,所以你把它恢復就對了?是。好,往下看齁。那麼除李少年這樣徒消棄置之外,有沒有其他任何降低少年再犯可能性的作為呢?秘書長。"},{"start":128.056,"end":153.301,"text":"跟委員報告我想一個少年他透過一個犯罪其實就是一個學習的過程所以在司法介入我們是主要的目的是要去恢復家庭跟教育的功能跟社區的功能那所以其實如何預防再犯犯罪學裡面的預防再犯其實是一種這個一個方向其實我們現在行政院有一個犯罪預防方案的一個這樣一個措施那整個少年司法介入也是要預防"},{"start":154.181,"end":176.726,"text":"好,預防,你講了很多次的預防,謝謝廳長。來,我們來分析一下,其實目前的少年犯罪跟早年,我們剛剛以前想像說的戰後嬰兒潮在青少年階段血氣方剛,那麼暴力犯罪的事情占比相對多。其實我們去參考,很多國家都這樣,其實暴力犯罪跟那個人口結構是有關的。"},{"start":177.546,"end":193.846,"text":"如果當戰後嬰兒潮的人數在進入的新少年期到壯年期的時候他們因為從事暴力犯罪的可能性具有那個本錢所以較高但是我們看看這幾年來新少年的嫌疑犯的24%是涉詐期比例是最高的你們有沒有注意到這個犯罪行為的轉變"},{"start":195.615,"end":217.412,"text":"有的我們這個在近幾年來是有這樣的一個趨勢是的那但是呢我們這些屬於詐欺的輕罪他終結呢都是以保護管束或者說在假日輔導為主那我們看一下在這個圖表當中107年到111年大概呢絕大部分的將近六成是保護管束還有三成的是訓誡或是加入輔導我請教一下訓誡是由誰為之加入輔導由誰為之"},{"start":222.612,"end":247.926,"text":"訓誡由法官維持,教育生活輔導由少年保護官很好,說到關鍵字了,這七個字,少年保護官,還有這五個字,好來,我們來看一下那如果在過程當中輔導資源不足,那少年呢我們觀察到很容易回頭來投靠幫派我們來看一下在2022年的司法業務年報當中,過去十年受調查的少年當中三千多人當中,經常犯罪的降了三成"},{"start":248.726,"end":267.783,"text":"那他們在什麼地方在經常犯罪呢?我們看一下從學校的偏差行為到地方政府的少輔會因為處罰進入了少年法院裁定之後他或者是訓誡或者是假日輔導或者保護管束或者安置機構或者感化教育那我們來看一下在學校端目前我們的學輔法呢輔導老師啊高中每12班才一名啊"},{"start":268.664,"end":280.456,"text":"國中每15班才一名,今天有教育部的副署長在,其實我們都看到這個預防的部分,在三級預防的部分,的確是資源有限,是不是這樣子?教育部是不是也覺得資源是有限的?"},{"start":281.657,"end":299.306,"text":"我們會努力爭取,其實包括修法再修,我們也會增加專業輔導人力好,但是我們今天談的是司法院主責的部分在保護處分後,我們的聯繫跟轉嫌會議是不是由邵保官來主責呢?我們來看一下"},{"start":300.026,"end":323.512,"text":"根據我們的少年法院與相關機關處理少年事件聯繫辦法第28條規定其實從少關所,現在已經改名了,出來的收容少年他要進行評估必要的時候相關的主管機關,你看,包含什麼?要支援的聯繫匯報,要求包括少年法院、社政、教育、輔導、衛生醫療、警政跟勞政因為我過去在地方政府我是擔任副首長"},{"start":324.392,"end":344.116,"text":"副首長通常就是一些這種聯繫匯報的副主任委員也就在主任委員、縣市首長不能主持會議的時候都是委由副主任委員來出席是不是副首長是不是這樣?是沒錯齁?都是副首長那請問一下可能因為秘書長對這個業務比較還是交給廳長來回答了齁聯繫跟轉銜誰來主責?"},{"start":350.291,"end":366.977,"text":"跟委員報告如果說是保護官的業務會有保護官來主責但是有些時候像涉及到地方政府的局處我目前有這個二級聯繫會會由院長、地方保安院院長跟地方政府的首長去召開相關局處的聯繫會其實您剛講那個關鍵字啦其實就這樣的一個轉弦的機制來講呢聯繫匯報的行政機關的協調當然是以這些主管或首長"},{"start":376.28,"end":376.3,"text":"委員會議長"},{"start":397.729,"end":399.51,"text":"請問司法院每名保護管束的少年平均可以見到幾次少保官?"},{"start":418.075,"end":419.036,"text":"前半年你聲音大一點好嗎不好意思"},{"start":432.591,"end":434.093,"text":"就前半年、前三個月每個月兩次"},{"start":450.091,"end":450.191,"text":"主席"},{"start":467.941,"end":486.007,"text":"告知啊 判個假日生活輔導 經少管所幾個月 出來再加個保護管束對少年來講 不痛不癢 沒有什麼約束力你就根本就是每個月去法院給關護人 他不知道是少保官啦關護人是成年犯啦 給人看一下 根本看不出什麼東西請問少保官跟他們 個案接觸是要看什麼要看什麼"},{"start":491.981,"end":509.939,"text":"關於報告的部分我們其實會就他的一些生活狀況還有就學就業的情形去做一些瞭解那就是書面的嗎?還是口頭的詢問?除了口頭以外我們還會有一些資料詢問好那我們來看一下會跟他瞭解一下他在學的狀況如果你們需要對個案有瞭解我們看保護處分的量有多大你看一下齁"},{"start":510.78,"end":537.079,"text":"在我目前看起來呢我們的這個最近5年來少年法院裁定保護處分的案件數呢單單是2023年到11月為止就超過8000多件那以我們編制數來講呢目前是有不足啦還有缺額目前還缺了10個那一個少保官要負責100個個案是不是這樣子你覺得100個個案一個月他要跟他見一次面要深入的去了解他的生活狀況你覺得夠嗎"},{"start":540.77,"end":559.316,"text":"所以我們這次有提出那個就是希望可以增額的一個計畫所以你們認為編制不足要增額可是我跟你講啊 任何行政機關不管是你們的法官助理、司法事務官、檢察官助理、檢察事務官、檢察官助理或法官助理 通通人總都跟你講什麼秘書長 人總你們遇到這種事 人總都跟你講什麼目前 他們"},{"start":567.346,"end":570.447,"text":"行事案件當中少年犯罪主要原因、心理因素"},{"start":597.119,"end":599.301,"text":"這兩個因素我們都看得清楚其實就是需要個人有人去關心他、有人去指導他,是不是這樣子?"},{"start":619.157,"end":631.282,"text":"這心理因素嘛,心理因素你沒辦法透過外面的社會連結的部分是的,社會連結跟他的心理因素,好,我們現在看那所以呢,其實我這邊提醒一下,司法院本身之外,根深保護會在做什麼事情?那個,秘書長你知道根保護會在做什麼嗎?"},{"start":636.769,"end":656.363,"text":"深深保護就是對於比如說從矯正機關回到社區那要協助他能夠受社會適應所以說他的保護的範圍包括什麼受少年管訓處分執行完畢者還有在關護人關護中的少年因為這個法用詞沒有修過啦他在保護管署執行中有沒有包括我們這個少年"},{"start":657.063,"end":675.534,"text":"當然有嘛我們查了一下他過去呢每年他的預算規模大概3億我們司法院邊預算補助他2億1還有他的其他收入但每年呢大概都用不完都還有剩我4千多萬累計的餘出呢已經還剩了7億多啊聽長你知道他有剩這麼多錢嗎"},{"start":677.741,"end":695.263,"text":"不知道我幫你整理出來了所以我們來看一下那麼既然基金會有餘裕他可不可以協助少年來保護管束業務我們看一下他目前他一整年每年我們有八九千件的保護處分案件他一整年做了多少件"},{"start":696.889,"end":725.424,"text":"福的更生人更生人做了700多個少年的才120幾個您覺得秘書長這就要換你來請教一下了您覺得耕保會的能量可不可以拿來好好運用這個應該要互相支援互相支援所以你覺得司法院每年編2億1000萬給耕保會你覺得可不可以透過耕保會透過他們聘用包括專職的社工、心理或這些非少保官核心業務的人來協助少保官執行這個保護管束業務"},{"start":728.335,"end":737.928,"text":"這個應該盡量來...對,跟委員報告這個部分兩議應該是法務部...是法務部編的啊?那我問錯人了,法務部?來,剛好,法務部來來來,問你們最好了,他們..."},{"start":739.994,"end":754.605,"text":"我們的徐市長,您覺得這個提議這個部分我們更生保護會我們是會來協助但是就是這些少年他們有他"},{"start":758.748,"end":759.669,"text":"司法院議員"},{"start":780.285,"end":799.556,"text":"透過我們基金會的協助可以聘一些人力來協助少保官你覺得有沒有可行性更生保護是需要當事人申請不過這一個部分我們會加強跟少年保庭橫向聯繫跟溝通提升他的案量來我告訴你你們就現有法制來我們看一下"},{"start":800.516,"end":814.244,"text":"來我們2019年齁那個我們的少司法修法才行政先行嘛對於負險少年偏差行為少年我們都列入我們的輔導之列往下看所以呢我們有一個叫少府會我們秘書長或次長你們知道少府會嗎"},{"start":815.492,"end":841.461,"text":"知道嗎 對不對少年輔導委員會的設置及輔導實施辦法第二條為什麼我特別提呢因為我過去在擔任地方政府的副首長的時候我當副縣長的時候我常常主持類似的會議但當時呢並沒有少輔會這種東西是後來我們修法之後少數法修法之後才增加的他這邊寫地方政府所設置的要整合包括什麼社政教育、衛政、戶政、警政、民政、勞政、財政還有毒品危害的防治"},{"start":844.702,"end":872.673,"text":"那所以呢他這些呢他這個聯繫中心他可以向少年法院提出處理的需求所以說在保護組問組結束後如果能夠整合少會的資源讓少年持續來接受協助我希望你們要善用地方這種這個聯繫匯報把耕保會的資源也納入到這個聯繫匯報當中讓耕保會不是代當事人提出申請而是遞由聯繫匯報提出所以我最後的訴求因為主委已經響鈴了齁"},{"start":874.774,"end":881.839,"text":"為了強化少年離開少關所、矯正學校或聯繫轉弦會議的機制,請修正事法明定由少保關主責。"},{"start":885.626,"end":903.521,"text":"這個部分本來就是由保護官去執行保護處分後面的聯繫跟轉銜會議的機制當然現在我們的少事法42條6項在保護處分執行中就是可以像委員你剛提到的包括我們未來可以跟更生保護會去做一個很好的聯繫那你已經講到第二點了"},{"start":904.281,"end":918.026,"text":"除了我們設法增補我們少保官的編制元額之外請你們評估運用多元的人力資源,比如說更生保護會來提供心理、社政的協助降低再犯,並一個月提供報告,可以嗎?你們跟法務部﹗我們會跟法務部這邊來洽商,好嗎?"},{"start":919.266,"end":935.708,"text":"法務部可以嗎?我們可以聯繫。最後,評估保護處分結束後,要整合少府會的資源,持續給予非行少年的協助。這個部分是不是也跟地方政府聯繫一下?瞭解目前地方政府設置了少府會這樣的聯繫匯報之後,它的成效如何?可以嗎?"},{"start":936.329,"end":938.031,"text":"提出一個他們的一個實心的成效評估報告"}]}}}}