{"id":153365,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153365","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/bbbc431469b8aeba8f8af9da5580c441ea2e07370b40154bbeba37a180c9b1cd521272009e48466f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳瑩","委員發言時間":"11:07:52 - 11:16:24","影片長度":"00:08:32","會議時間":"2024-05-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、委員許宇甄等22人擬具「老人福利法增訂第二十二條之一條文草案」案。\n二、委員馬文君等16人擬具「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n四、國民黨黨團擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員黃健豪等17人擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員王育敏等19人擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n七、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「老人福利法第二十二條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n【第七案，如經復議，則不予審查】）","date":"2024-05-30","duration":512,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":19,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-19"},"end_time":"2024-05-30T11:16:24+08:00","start_time":"2024-05-30T11:07:52+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":612,"blocks":[["陳委員瑩：（11時8分）謝謝主席，麻煩請呂次長。"],["主席：請呂次長。"],["陳委員瑩：我以為一般上來備詢的首長通常都會先說委員好。"],["呂次長建德：委員好。"],["陳委員瑩：好，次長好，我想跟你問好。沒關係，不要緊張。今天大家討論的主題是老人福利法，次長因為新上任可能不知道，過去我有多次提到老福法的問題，對於原住民老人的認定，我們一直希望能調整為55歲，原因是原住民的平均餘命和全體國人的差距將近10歲。說到平均餘命的問題，署長不必擔心，我今天沒有要跟你爭論要不要調到55歲，這個你可以會後再跟次長講。","次長，有沒有看過這個資料？"],["呂次長建德：有，有看到。"],["陳委員瑩：你覺得他寫得好嗎？"],["呂次長建德：嗯……"],["陳委員瑩：好了，沒關係，我是故意問你一下。這是原住民簡易生命表的分析內容，分析表的資料是每年由衛福部提供給內政部，然後再由內政部進行統計分析整理後公布，當然也包括把資料回饋給衛福部做為施政的參考。我們現在看到的是110年的資料，下一張是111年的資料。次長既然看過結論，你有沒有發現什麼問題？"],["呂次長建德：跟委員報告，目前平均餘命大概都是在延長，這是一般的趨勢，當然也是我們整個公共衛生和健保的貢獻。原住民的部分確實較一般……我想這也不光是臺灣，澳洲、紐西蘭等也有類似的情況，委員，這一部分我們會持續的推動。"],["陳委員瑩：我想是這樣，數據的如實分析，沒關係，等一下，我們先繼續看好了，我要帶你做一下數學。這個結論的內容、標題都是一樣，原住民的平均餘命呈上升趨勢。"],["呂次長建德：對，沒錯。"],["陳委員瑩：還有跟全體國民差距呈縮小趨勢，前面都有加「長期」兩個字，好像看起來都是沒有錯的，可是這幾年的變化真的是這樣嗎？依照次長的瞭解就是如此嗎？如果不太確定也可以跟我講不知道或什麼，我不會把你送去我們那個法案，總統還沒公布。"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，我確實不太確定，謝謝。"],["陳委員瑩：沒關係，那我們再來看一下。這是原住民平均餘命的各年資料，呈上升趨勢沒有錯。這是原住民與全體國民平均餘命的差距資料，看起來也是在縮小，也沒錯，但是我們再看下一張，問題來了，如果我們看這個表，答案就不簡單了。之前大家有個說法，包括去年審查原住民族健康法的時候，衛福部也提供相同的資訊，105年到109年間這五年，原住民平均餘命總共提高了1.74歲，我把速度放慢，105年到109年原住民的平均餘命提高1.74歲，大家就四捨五入說我們平均餘命都提高了將近兩歲，可是全體國人也是提高1.32歲，所以這五年原住民平均餘命提高的情況並不是單純的如想像中的提高了將近兩歲。","我們再來看，如果我們講到原住民與全體國人的差距，政府公布的資訊是109年到111年這三年之間縮短了1.47歲，如果你沒有跟上我的速度，我可以再重複放慢沒有關係，但你要告訴我。"],["呂次長建德：可以。"],["陳委員瑩：實際上是這樣單純嗎？我們看看這個表2，各個年齡層在這三年間平均餘命的差距都縮小了1.5歲左右，可是我們看到下一排紅字的數據，這三年全體國人的平均餘命卻下降了大約1.5歲，所以這三年縮短差距的背後是全體國人平均餘命下降的結果而不是原住民的平均餘命上升。我再講一次，這個是全體國人平均餘命下降的結果，不是原住民平均餘命上升，所以用單一數據然後說明原住民平均餘命有大幅的改善，次長不覺得這個有很大的盲點嗎？"],["呂次長建德：我同意。"],["陳委員瑩：我們剛剛做的算數你都有follow了嗎？"],["呂次長建德：有。"],["陳委員瑩：這是用單一數據說故事的問題，衛福部送給行政院核定的原鄉健康不平等改善策略行動計畫也是這麼寫的，結果害去年行政院頒佈的新聞稿也是只寫平均餘命縮短差距幾歲卻沒有提到其他數據，其實這三年原住民平均餘命是稍微下降大概0.01歲，所以這個問題，衛福部內的機關單位，包括社家署、照護司、統計處等都會用這個數據的單位，一定要全面檢討而且要特別注意，因為這樣很容易造成民眾的誤解，你們每年提供資料給內政部時也都應該跟內政部好好的溝通一下這個問題，當一個數據交到你們手上時，應該要有很多的計算方式，橫向、縱向看到底要怎麼樣加加減減，會有不一樣的結果出來。數據的分析、如實分析其實是要找出問題的，是要研擬對策然後解決問題，不是說要來美化、粉飾太平，所以我特別做這樣的提醒。待會會後我會給你，這不是假新聞，這是一個真新聞但不是一個專業的新聞，你參考一下這個文健站的新聞稿，因為你新上任，我多送你36秒讓你休息。"],["呂次長建德：非常感謝委員。我簡單回答一下，我們的研究法中，不同的測量就會有不同的結果，剛才委員確實指出這裡面整個測量measure的一些問題。"],["陳委員瑩：measure可以一樣，但你們計算怎麼看要研究一下。"],["呂次長建德：沒錯，這部分我再跟同仁好好研議，非常感謝委員的修正，謝謝。"],["陳委員瑩：反正這個跟按那個是不一樣的嘛。"],["呂次長建德：啊？"],["陳委員瑩：沒有啦，跟麥當勞按機器是不一樣的。"],["呂次長建德：感謝委員，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳瑩委員。","接下來請劉建國委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":212,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-19","speakers":["王育敏","許宇甄","張嘉郡","陳昭姿","林月琴","廖偉翔","黃秀芳","黃健豪","張智倫","李彥秀","林淑芬","楊瓊瓔","陳瑩","劉建國","徐欣瑩","楊曜","陳菁徽","盧縣一","涂權吉","蘇清泉"],"page_start":149,"meetingDate":["2024-05-30"],"gazette_id":"1135501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135501_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員許宇甄等22人擬具「老人福利法增訂第二十二條之一條文草案」案；二、委員馬文\n君等16人擬具「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案」案；三、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具「老人福\n利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案；四、國民黨黨團擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草\n案」案；五、委員黃健豪等17人擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案；六、委員王育\n敏等19人擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案；七、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「老人福利\n法第二十二條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1135501_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"153365","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153365","tool":"pyannote","id":"153365-pyannote"},"job_id":"8HeHb0iKtaEscbej","queued_at":"2024-05-30 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11:57:36","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-30 11:58:05","msg":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153365 already downloaded"},{"time":"2024-05-30 11:58:05","msg":"running whisperx with  --model large-v3 --initial_prompt '會議名稱：立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、委員許宇甄等22人擬具「老人福利法增訂第二十二條之一條文草案」案。\n二、委員馬文君等16人擬具「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n四、國民黨黨團擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員黃健豪等17人擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員王育敏等19人擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n七、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「老人福利法第二十二條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n【第七案，如經復議，則不予審查】）\n發言委員：陳瑩'"},{"time":"2024-05-30 11:58:25","msg":"merging result"},{"time":"2024-05-30 11:58:25","msg":"status: done"}],"result":{"json":"{\"segments\": [{\"start\": 8.119, \"end\": 31.968, \"text\": \"謝謝主席,麻煩請次長。好,請呂次長。我以為一般上來,通常備詢的首長都會說委員好先。委員好。好,次長好,因為我想跟你問好。好,沒關係,不要緊張。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 8.119, \"end\": 8.299, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 8.299, \"end\": 8.699, \"score\": 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\"那我們就是這個結論的這個內容標題都是一樣那原住民的平均餘命就是成上升趨勢還有跟全體國民差距成縮小趨勢前面喔都有加這個長期兩個字喔好像看起來都是沒有錯的可是這幾年的變化是真的是這樣嗎那次長依照你的了解這就是如此嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 159.992, \"end\": 160.212, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 160.212, \"end\": 160.412, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 160.412, \"end\": 160.572, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 160.572, \"end\": 162.113, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 162.113, \"end\": 162.913, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"容\", \"start\": 162.913, \"end\": 163.853, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 163.853, \"end\": 164.033, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 164.033, \"end\": 164.193, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 164.193, \"end\": 164.853, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": 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194.55, \"end\": 200.602, \"text\": \"如果不太確定,你也可以跟我講,不知道或是什麼,我會把你送去那個我們法案。我確實不太確定,謝謝。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 194.55, \"end\": 194.691, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 194.691, \"end\": 195.212, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 195.212, \"end\": 195.332, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"太\", \"start\": 195.332, \"end\": 195.713, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 195.713, \"end\": 195.873, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 195.873, \"end\": 195.973, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 195.973, \"end\": 196.093, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 196.093, \"end\": 196.214, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 196.214, \"end\": 196.314, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 196.314, \"end\": 196.434, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 196.434, \"end\": 197.015, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, 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0.5}, {\"word\": \"命\", \"start\": 210.147, \"end\": 210.287, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 210.287, \"end\": 210.487, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 210.487, \"end\": 210.647, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 210.647, \"end\": 211.068, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 211.068, \"end\": 211.588, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 211.588, \"end\": 211.848, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"乘\", \"start\": 211.848, \"end\": 212.408, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 212.408, \"end\": 212.628, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"升\", \"start\": 212.628, \"end\": 212.788, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 212.788, \"end\": 213.208, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"趨\"}, {\"word\": \"勢\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 213.208, \"end\": 213.348, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 213.348, \"end\": 216.229, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"錯\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 216.229, \"end\": 216.489, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 216.489, \"end\": 216.669, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"住\", \"start\": 216.669, \"end\": 216.809, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 216.809, \"end\": 217.029, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 217.029, \"end\": 217.569, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 217.569, \"end\": 218.149, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 218.149, \"end\": 218.269, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 218.269, \"end\": 218.41, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 218.41, \"end\": 218.55, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"均\", \"start\": 218.55, \"end\": 218.69, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"逾\", \"start\": 218.69, \"end\": 218.81, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 218.81, \"end\": 218.85, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"命\", \"start\": 218.85, \"end\": 219.05, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 219.05, \"end\": 219.35, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"差\", \"start\": 219.35, \"end\": 219.53, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"距\", \"start\": 219.53, \"end\": 219.65, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 219.65, \"end\": 219.95, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 219.95, \"end\": 220.97, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 220.97, \"end\": 221.19, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 221.19, \"end\": 221.81, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 221.81, \"end\": 222.051, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 222.051, \"end\": 222.211, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 222.211, \"end\": 222.611, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"縮\"}, {\"word\": \"小\", \"start\": 222.611, \"end\": 222.911, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 222.911, \"end\": 223.011, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 223.011, \"end\": 224.331, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"錯\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 224.331, \"end\": 224.511, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 224.511, \"end\": 224.891, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 224.891, \"end\": 225.051, \"score\": 0.761}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 225.051, \"end\": 225.191, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 225.191, \"end\": 225.391, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 225.391, \"end\": 225.571, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 225.571, \"end\": 225.591, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"囉\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}]}, {\"start\": 228.291, \"end\": 253.717, \"text\": \"如果我們看這個表這個答案就不簡單了之前大家有個說法包括去年審查原住民族健康法的時候衛福部也提供相同的資訊那105年到109年間這五年原住民的平均餘命總共提高了1.74歲我把速度放慢105年到109年原住民的平均餘命提高1.74歲是\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 228.291, \"end\": 228.391, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 228.391, \"end\": 228.491, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 228.491, \"end\": 228.671, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 228.671, \"end\": 229.111, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 229.111, \"end\": 230.552, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 230.552, \"end\": 230.652, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 230.652, \"end\": 230.812, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 230.812, \"end\": 230.972, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 230.972, \"end\": 231.532, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"簡\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 231.532, \"end\": 232.472, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 232.472, \"end\": 232.592, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 232.592, \"end\": 232.832, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 232.832, \"end\": 232.972, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 232.972, \"end\": 233.132, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 233.132, \"end\": 233.752, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 233.752, \"end\": 234.312, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 234.312, \"end\": 234.572, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"括\", \"start\": 234.572, \"end\": 234.852, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 234.852, \"end\": 235.052, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 235.052, \"end\": 235.473, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 235.473, \"end\": 235.673, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 235.673, \"end\": 235.833, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"住\", \"start\": 235.833, \"end\": 235.993, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 235.993, \"end\": 236.093, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"族\", \"start\": 236.093, \"end\": 236.253, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"健\", \"start\": 236.253, \"end\": 236.393, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"康\", \"start\": 236.393, \"end\": 236.573, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 236.573, \"end\": 236.733, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 236.733, \"end\": 237.013, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 237.013, \"end\": 237.373, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"衛\"}, {\"word\": \"福\", \"start\": 237.373, \"end\": 237.513, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 237.513, \"end\": 237.673, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 237.673, \"end\": 238.053, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 238.053, \"end\": 238.193, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 238.193, \"end\": 238.433, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 238.433, \"end\": 238.633, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 238.633, \"end\": 238.773, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 238.773, \"end\": 239.714, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 239.714, \"end\": 240.454, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 240.454, \"end\": 240.594, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 240.594, \"end\": 241.234, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 241.234, \"end\": 241.834, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 241.834, \"end\": 242.014, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 242.014, \"end\": 242.294, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 242.294, \"end\": 242.434, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"住\", \"start\": 242.434, \"end\": 242.594, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 242.594, \"end\": 242.754, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 242.754, \"end\": 242.874, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 242.874, \"end\": 243.034, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"均\", \"start\": 243.034, \"end\": 243.314, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"餘\"}, {\"word\": \"命\", \"start\": 243.314, \"end\": 244.034, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 244.034, \"end\": 244.455, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 244.455, \"end\": 244.675, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 244.675, \"end\": 244.875, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 244.875, \"end\": 247.255, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"歲\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 247.255, \"end\": 247.475, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 247.475, \"end\": 247.635, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"速\", \"start\": 247.635, \"end\": 247.755, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 247.755, \"end\": 247.955, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 247.955, \"end\": 248.095, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"慢\", \"start\": 248.095, \"end\": 249.176, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 249.176, \"end\": 249.776, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 249.776, \"end\": 251.076, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 251.076, \"end\": 251.856, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 251.856, \"end\": 251.996, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"住\", \"start\": 251.996, \"end\": 252.136, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 252.136, \"end\": 252.236, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 252.236, \"end\": 252.356, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 252.356, \"end\": 252.536, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"均\", \"start\": 252.536, \"end\": 252.916, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"餘\"}, {\"word\": \"命\", \"start\": 252.916, \"end\": 253.176, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 253.176, \"end\": 253.497, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 253.497, \"end\": 253.697, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"歲\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 253.697, \"end\": 253.717, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 255.777, \"end\": 277.455, \"text\": \" ﹏那大家就四舍五入嘛﹏說我們平均移民都提高將近兩歲囉﹏那可是全體國人也是提高1.32歲﹏所以這五年原住民的平均移民提高的情況﹏並不是單純的就是說我們的這個好像想像中就是提高了這個將近兩歲。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"﹏\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 255.777, \"end\": 255.957, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 255.957, \"end\": 256.097, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 256.097, \"end\": 256.338, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 256.338, \"end\": 256.678, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"四\", \"start\": 256.678, \"end\": 256.838, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"舍\", \"start\": 256.838, \"end\": 257.018, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 257.018, \"end\": 257.158, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 257.158, \"end\": 257.358, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 257.358, \"end\": 257.899, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"﹏\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 257.899, \"end\": 258.179, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 258.179, \"end\": 258.319, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"均\", \"start\": 258.319, \"end\": 258.479, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"移\", \"start\": 258.479, \"end\": 258.619, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 258.619, \"end\": 259.0, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 259.0, \"end\": 259.22, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 259.22, \"end\": 259.38, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 259.38, \"end\": 259.74, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"將\"}, {\"word\": \"近\", \"start\": 259.74, \"end\": 261.162, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"歲\"}, {\"word\": \"囉\"}, {\"word\": \"﹏\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 261.162, \"end\": 261.442, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 261.442, \"end\": 261.642, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 261.642, \"end\": 261.962, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 261.962, \"end\": 263.123, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 263.123, \"end\": 263.504, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 263.504, \"end\": 263.764, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 263.764, \"end\": 264.004, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 264.004, \"end\": 264.244, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 264.244, \"end\": 266.246, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"歲\"}, {\"word\": \"﹏\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 266.246, \"end\": 266.386, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 266.386, \"end\": 266.766, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 266.766, \"end\": 267.007, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 267.007, \"end\": 267.847, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 267.847, \"end\": 267.967, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"住\", \"start\": 267.967, \"end\": 268.107, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 268.107, \"end\": 268.228, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 268.228, \"end\": 268.388, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 268.388, \"end\": 268.648, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"均\", \"start\": 268.648, \"end\": 268.868, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"移\", \"start\": 268.868, \"end\": 269.048, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 269.048, \"end\": 269.369, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 269.369, \"end\": 269.589, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 269.589, \"end\": 269.769, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 269.769, \"end\": 269.949, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 269.949, \"end\": 270.97, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"﹏\"}, {\"word\": \"並\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 270.97, \"end\": 271.11, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 271.11, \"end\": 272.091, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"純\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 272.091, \"end\": 272.791, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 272.791, \"end\": 272.952, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 272.952, \"end\": 273.652, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 273.652, \"end\": 273.992, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 273.992, \"end\": 275.334, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 275.334, \"end\": 275.454, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 275.454, \"end\": 275.694, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 275.694, \"end\": 275.894, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 275.894, \"end\": 276.134, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 276.134, \"end\": 276.374, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 276.374, \"end\": 276.515, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 276.515, \"end\": 276.835, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 276.835, \"end\": 277.015, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 277.015, \"end\": 277.235, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 277.235, \"end\": 277.435, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"將\"}, {\"word\": \"近\", \"start\": 277.435, \"end\": 277.455, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"歲\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}]}, {\"start\": 279.497, \"end\": 300.902, \"text\": \"那我們再來看如果我們講到原住民與全體國人的差距政府公佈的資訊是109年到111年之間這三年縮短了1.47歲你如果沒有follow到我的速度我可以再重複放慢沒關係但是你要告訴我那可是實際上是這樣這麼單純嗎我們來看一下這個表二\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 279.497, \"end\": 279.637, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 279.637, \"end\": 279.897, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 279.897, \"end\": 280.237, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 280.237, \"end\": 280.877, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 280.877, \"end\": 280.997, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 280.997, \"end\": 281.137, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 281.137, \"end\": 281.658, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 281.658, \"end\": 281.858, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 281.858, \"end\": 282.078, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"住\", \"start\": 282.078, \"end\": 282.258, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 282.258, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 295.861, \"end\": 296.021, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 296.021, \"end\": 296.101, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 296.101, \"end\": 296.321, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 296.321, \"end\": 296.781, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"複\"}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 296.781, \"end\": 296.921, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"慢\", \"start\": 296.921, \"end\": 297.081, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 297.081, \"end\": 297.541, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"係\"}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 297.541, \"end\": 297.701, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 297.701, \"end\": 297.801, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 297.801, \"end\": 297.921, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 297.921, \"end\": 298.021, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 298.021, \"end\": 298.401, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"訴\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 298.401, \"end\": 299.802, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 299.802, \"end\": 299.962, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 299.962, \"end\": 300.082, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 300.082, \"end\": 300.182, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"際\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 300.182, \"end\": 300.202, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 300.202, \"end\": 300.222, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"純\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 300.222, \"end\": 300.302, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 300.302, \"end\": 300.422, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 300.422, \"end\": 300.642, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 300.642, \"end\": 300.842, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 300.842, \"end\": 300.882, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 300.882, \"end\": 300.902, \"score\": 0.012}]}, {\"start\": 307.033, \"end\": 328.018, \"text\": \"這個各個年齡層這三年間平均餘命差距都縮小了1.5歲左右可是我們看到下一排紅字的這個數據這三年全體國人的平均餘命卻下降了大約1.5歲所以這三年的縮短差距的背後\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 307.033, \"end\": 307.313, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 307.313, \"end\": 308.513, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"齡\"}, {\"word\": \"層\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 308.513, \"end\": 308.733, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 308.733, \"end\": 309.314, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 309.314, \"end\": 309.534, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"均\", \"start\": 309.534, \"end\": 309.914, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"餘\"}, {\"word\": \"命\", \"start\": 309.914, \"end\": 310.234, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"差\", \"start\": 310.234, \"end\": 310.494, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"距\", \"start\": 310.494, \"end\": 310.654, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 310.654, \"end\": 311.154, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"縮\"}, {\"word\": \"小\", \"start\": 311.154, \"end\": 311.414, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 311.414, \"end\": 312.794, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"歲\"}, {\"word\": \"左\", \"start\": 312.794, \"end\": 313.034, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"右\", \"start\": 313.034, \"end\": 314.735, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 314.735, \"end\": 314.875, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 314.875, \"end\": 315.015, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 315.015, \"end\": 315.295, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 315.295, \"end\": 315.455, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 315.455, \"end\": 315.615, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 315.615, \"end\": 315.795, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 315.795, \"end\": 315.915, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"排\", \"start\": 315.915, \"end\": 316.475, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"紅\"}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 316.475, \"end\": 316.655, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 316.655, \"end\": 318.096, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 318.096, \"end\": 318.336, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 318.336, \"end\": 318.956, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 318.956, \"end\": 319.916, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 319.916, \"end\": 320.156, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 320.156, \"end\": 320.336, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 320.336, \"end\": 320.576, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"均\", \"start\": 320.576, \"end\": 320.996, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"餘\"}, {\"word\": \"命\", \"start\": 320.996, \"end\": 322.177, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"卻\"}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 322.177, \"end\": 322.537, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"降\", \"start\": 322.537, \"end\": 322.837, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 322.837, \"end\": 323.097, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 323.097, \"end\": 324.897, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"約\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"歲\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 324.897, \"end\": 325.137, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 325.137, \"end\": 325.617, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 325.617, \"end\": 325.877, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 325.877, \"end\": 326.137, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 326.137, \"end\": 326.658, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"縮\"}, {\"word\": \"短\", \"start\": 326.658, \"end\": 326.978, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"差\", \"start\": 326.978, \"end\": 327.298, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"距\", \"start\": 327.298, \"end\": 327.518, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 327.518, \"end\": 327.778, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"背\", \"start\": 327.778, \"end\": 327.998, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 327.998, \"end\": 328.018, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 328.678, \"end\": 353.665, \"text\": \"是全體國人平均餘命下降的結果而不是原住民的平均餘命上升我再講一次這個是全體國人平均餘命下降的結果不是我們原住民平均餘命上升所以次長用單一數據然後說明原住民的平均餘命有大幅的改善你不覺得這個有很大的盲點嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 328.678, \"end\": 328.978, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 328.978, \"end\": 330.038, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 330.038, \"end\": 330.539, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 330.539, \"end\": 330.859, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"均\", \"start\": 330.859, \"end\": 331.479, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"餘\"}, {\"word\": \"命\", \"start\": 331.479, 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{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 499.839, \"end\": 499.859, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"﹏\"}, {\"word\": \"感\", \"start\": 499.859, \"end\": 499.879, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 499.879, \"end\": 499.899, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"﹏\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 499.899, \"end\": 499.919, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"﹏\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 509.54, \"end\": 509.742, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"瑩\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 509.742, \"end\": 509.762, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"en\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:31,968\n謝 謝 主 席 , 麻 煩 請 次 長 。 好 , 請 呂 次 長 。 我 以 為 一 般 上 來 , 通 常 備 詢 的 首 長 都 會 說 委 員 好 先 。 委 員 好 。 好 , 次 長 好 , 因 為 我 想 跟 你 問 好 。 好 , 沒 關 係 , 不 要 緊 張 。\n\n2\n00:00:36,875 --> 00:00:56,419\n今 天 大 家 討 論 的 主 題 是 這 個 老 人 福 利 法 那 我 想 次 長 因 為 新 上 任 可 能 不 知 道 就 是 在 過 去 我 有 很 多 次 都 提 到 這 個 老 福 法 的 問 題 就 是 原 住 民 的 老 人 的 認 定 那 我 們 一 直 都 希 望 把 它 調 整 為 5 5 歲 那 原 因 呢 就 是 因 為 原 住 民 的 平 均 餘 命 與 全 國 國 體 這 個 全 體 國 人 的 差 距 將 近 1 0 歲\n\n3\n00:01:02,441 --> 00:01:21,296\n這 個 說 到 平 均 餘 命 的 問 題 , 那 個 署 長 不 用 擔 心 我 今 天 沒 有 要 跟 你 a r g u e 要 不 要 調 到 5 5 歲 。 所 以 這 個 你 可 以 會 後 再 跟 次 長 講 。 那 次 長 你 有 沒 有 看 過 這 個 資 料 ? 有 的 , 這 個 我 有 看 到 。 你 覺 得 他 寫 的 好 嗎 ?\n\n4\n00:01:27,571 --> 00:01:49,747\n好 了 沒 關 係 我 們 來 我 是 故 意 問 你 一 下 那 這 是 這 個 原 住 民 檢 疫 生 命 表 的 分 析 內 容 那 這 個 分 析 表 的 資 料 是 每 年 由 衛 福 部 提 供 給 內 政 部 然 後 再 由 內 政 部 進 行 統 計 分 析 整 理 之 後 公 佈 那 當 然 呢 也 包 括 把 資 料 回 饋 給 衛 福 部 作 為 施 政 的 參 考 我 們 現 在 看 到 的 是 1 1 0 年 的 資 料 那 下 一 張 是 這 個 1 1 1 年 的 資 料\n\n5\n00:01:55,931 --> 00:02:23,467\n市 長 你 既 然 看 過 這 個 結 論 你 有 沒 有 發 現 什 麼 問 題 ? 我 們 現 在 目 前 大 概 就 是 說 平 均 餘 命 大 概 都 在 延 長 嘛 那 這 是 一 個 一 般 的 一 個 趨 勢 當 然 也 是 因 為 跟 我 們 整 個 這 個 公 共 衛 生 健 保 的 貢 獻 但 確 實 就 是 說 原 住 民 的 這 個 部 分 確 實 叫 一 般 我 們 一 般 我 想 這 個 也 不 光 台 灣 我 想 這 個 像 比 如 澳 洲 紐 西 蘭 等 等 這 些 都 有 類 似 的 一 個 情 況\n\n6\n00:02:24,687 --> 00:02:38,291\n我 們 這 個 部 分 我 們 會 我 們 會 來 持 續 來 推 動 這 部 分 我 想 是 這 樣 子 就 是 說 數 據 的 如 實 分 析 沒 關 係 我 先 我 等 一 下 我 們 先 繼 續 看 好 了 我 來 帶 你 做 一 下 這 個 數 學\n\n7\n00:02:39,992 --> 00:03:09,139\n那 我 們 就 是 這 個 結 論 的 這 個 內 容 標 題 都 是 一 樣 那 原 住 民 的 平 均 餘 命 就 是 成 上 升 趨 勢 還 有 跟 全 體 國 民 差 距 成 縮 小 趨 勢 前 面 喔 都 有 加 這 個 長 期 兩 個 字 喔 好 像 看 起 來 都 是 沒 有 錯 的 可 是 這 幾 年 的 變 化 是 真 的 是 這 樣 嗎 那 次 長 依 照 你 的 了 解 這 就 是 如 此 嗎\n\n8\n00:03:14,550 --> 00:03:20,602\n如 果 不 太 確 定 , 你 也 可 以 跟 我 講 , 不 知 道 或 是 什 麼 , 我 會 把 你 送 去 那 個 我 們 法 案 。 我 確 實 不 太 確 定 , 謝 謝 。\n\n9\n00:03:25,926 --> 00:03:45,591\n沒 關 係 , 我 們 再 來 看 一 下 。 這 是 原 住 民 平 均 逾 一 命 的 各 年 資 料 , 是 乘 這 個 上 升 的 趨 勢 沒 有 錯 。 這 個 是 原 住 民 跟 全 體 國 民 的 平 均 逾 一 命 的 差 距 的 資 料 。 看 起 來 也 是 在 縮 小 , 也 沒 錯 。 但 是 我 們 再 看 下 一 張 問 題 來 囉 。\n\n10\n00:03:48,291 --> 00:04:13,717\n如 果 我 們 看 這 個 表 這 個 答 案 就 不 簡 單 了 之 前 大 家 有 個 說 法 包 括 去 年 審 查 原 住 民 族 健 康 法 的 時 候 衛 福 部 也 提 供 相 同 的 資 訊 那 1 0 5 年 到 1 0 9 年 間 這 五 年 原 住 民 的 平 均 餘 命 總 共 提 高 了 1 . 7 4 歲 我 把 速 度 放 慢 1 0 5 年 到 1 0 9 年 原 住 民 的 平 均 餘 命 提 高 1 . 7 4 歲 是\n\n11\n00:04:15,777 --> 00:04:37,455\n﹏ 那 大 家 就 四 舍 五 入 嘛 ﹏ 說 我 們 平 均 移 民 都 提 高 將 近 兩 歲 囉 ﹏ 那 可 是 全 體 國 人 也 是 提 高 1 . 3 2 歲 ﹏ 所 以 這 五 年 原 住 民 的 平 均 移 民 提 高 的 情 況 ﹏ 並 不 是 單 純 的 就 是 說 我 們 的 這 個 好 像 想 像 中 就 是 提 高 了 這 個 將 近 兩 歲 。\n\n12\n00:04:39,497 --> 00:05:00,902\n那 我 們 再 來 看 如 果 我 們 講 到 原 住 民 與 全 體 國 人 的 差 距 政 府 公 佈 的 資 訊 是 1 0 9 年 到 1 1 1 年 之 間 這 三 年 縮 短 了 1 . 4 7 歲 你 如 果 沒 有 f o l l o w 到 我 的 速 度 我 可 以 再 重 複 放 慢 沒 關 係 但 是 你 要 告 訴 我 那 可 是 實 際 上 是 這 樣 這 麼 單 純 嗎 我 們 來 看 一 下 這 個 表 二\n\n13\n00:05:07,033 --> 00:05:28,018\n這 個 各 個 年 齡 層 這 三 年 間 平 均 餘 命 差 距 都 縮 小 了 1 . 5 歲 左 右 可 是 我 們 看 到 下 一 排 紅 字 的 這 個 數 據 這 三 年 全 體 國 人 的 平 均 餘 命 卻 下 降 了 大 約 1 . 5 歲 所 以 這 三 年 的 縮 短 差 距 的 背 後\n\n14\n00:05:28,678 --> 00:05:53,665\n是 全 體 國 人 平 均 餘 命 下 降 的 結 果 而 不 是 原 住 民 的 平 均 餘 命 上 升 我 再 講 一 次 這 個 是 全 體 國 人 平 均 餘 命 下 降 的 結 果 不 是 我 們 原 住 民 平 均 餘 命 上 升 所 以 次 長 用 單 一 數 據 然 後 說 明 原 住 民 的 平 均 餘 命 有 大 幅 的 改 善 你 不 覺 得 這 個 有 很 大 的 盲 點 嗎\n\n15\n00:05:55,837 --> 00:06:12,268\n我 同 意 , 我 同 意 那 個 委 員 的 意 思 。 好 , 所 以 我 們 剛 剛 做 的 算 數 你 都 有 f o l l o w 了 。 好 , 那 次 長 , 這 次 用 單 一 數 據 說 故 事 的 問 題 , 就 是 連 衛 福 部 送 給 這 個 行 政 院 核 定 的 原 鄉 健 康 不 平 等 改 善 策 略 行 動 計 畫 , 也 是 這 麼 寫 的 。\n\n16\n00:06:14,569 --> 00:06:31,917\n結 果 害 去 年 行 政 院 頒 布 的 新 聞 稿 也 是 只 寫 平 均 餘 命 縮 短 差 距 幾 歲 , 卻 沒 有 提 到 其 他 的 數 據 。 其 實 這 三 年 , 原 住 民 的 平 均 餘 命 是 稍 微 下 降 , 大 概 少 了 0 . 0 1 歲 。 所 以 次 長 這 個 問 題 ,\n\n17\n00:06:40,281 --> 00:07:03,319\n委 員 會 的 機 關 單 位 包 括 社 家 署 、 照 護 司 、 統 計 處 等 等 都 會 用 這 個 數 據 的 單 位 你 們 一 定 要 全 面 檢 討 而 且 要 特 別 注 意 因 為 這 樣 很 容 易 造 成 民 眾 的 誤 解 而 且 你 們 每 年 提 供 資 料 給 內 政 部 的 時 候 也 都 應 該 要 跟 內 政 部 好 好 的 溝 通 一 下 這 個 問 題 當 一 個 數 據 交 到 你 們 手 上 的 時 候\n\n18\n00:07:06,682 --> 00:07:07,672\n不 是 都 只 是\n\n19\n00:07:08,973 --> 00:07:36,390\n就 是 應 該 要 有 很 多 的 計 算 方 式 , 橫 向 、 縱 向 , 看 到 底 要 怎 麼 加 加 減 減 , 會 有 不 一 樣 的 結 果 出 來 。 所 以 數 據 的 分 析 , 我 們 的 如 實 分 析 其 實 是 要 找 出 問 題 的 , 是 要 研 擬 對 策 , 然 後 要 解 決 問 題 , 不 是 說 要 來 美 化 然 後 粉 飾 太 平 。 所 以 我 在 這 裡 特 別 做 這 樣 的 提 醒 , 那 我 待 會 會 後 我 會 給 你\n\n20\n00:07:37,951 --> 00:08:00,545\n這 個 不 是 假 新 聞 , 這 是 一 個 真 新 聞 , 但 是 它 不 是 一 個 專 業 的 新 聞 。 那 你 也 參 考 一 下 這 個 文 件 站 的 這 個 新 聞 稿 。 那 因 為 你 新 上 任 , 我 多 送 你 這 個 3 6 秒 讓 你 休 息 。 我 簡 單 回 答 一 下 就 是 說 , 我 們 在 整 個 研 究 法 裡 面 其 實 就 是 說 你 不 同 的 測 量 就 不 同 的 結 果 啦 。\n\n21\n00:08:00,965 --> 00:08:19,919\n﹏ 那 我 想 剛 剛 委 員 剛 剛 確 實 就 是 說 也 指 出 這 裡 面 整 個 測 量 M a j o r 的 一 些 問 題 ﹏ 那 這 部 分 ﹏ M a j o r 可 以 一 樣 啊 ﹏ 但 是 你 們 計 算 怎 麼 看 ﹏ 是 的 沒 錯 ﹏ 要 自 己 研 究 ﹏ 這 邊 我 們 會 回 來 ﹏ 我 再 跟 同 仁 我 們 這 邊 再 好 好 來 研 議 ﹏ 也 非 常 感 謝 委 員 這 邊 的 一 個 的 一 個 修 正 ﹏ 謝 謝 ﹏ 反 正 這 個 跟 那 個 案 那 個 是 不 一 樣 的 嗎 ﹏ 啊 ﹏ 沒 有 啦 ﹏ 跟 麥 當 勞 案 機 器 那 個 是 不 一 樣 的 ﹏ 好 ﹏ 感 謝 委 員 謝 謝 ﹏ 好 謝 謝 ﹏\n\n22\n00:08:29,540 --> 00:08:29,762\n好 , 謝 謝 陳 瑩 委 員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8119\t31968\t謝謝主席,麻煩請次長。好,請呂次長。我以為一般上來,通常備詢的首長都會說委員好先。委員好。好,次長好,因為我想跟你問好。好,沒關係,不要緊張。\n36875\t56419\t今天大家討論的主題是這個老人福利法那我想次長因為新上任可能不知道就是在過去我有很多次都提到這個老福法的問題就是原住民的老人的認定那我們一直都希望把它調整為55歲那原因呢就是因為原住民的平均餘命與全國國體這個全體國人的差距將近10歲\n62441\t81296\t這個說到平均餘命的問題,那個署長不用擔心我今天沒有要跟你argue要不要調到55歲。所以這個你可以會後再跟次長講。那次長你有沒有看過這個資料?有的,這個我有看到。你覺得他寫的好嗎?\n87571\t109747\t好了沒關係我們來我是故意問你一下那這是這個原住民檢疫生命表的分析內容那這個分析表的資料是每年由衛福部提供給內政部然後再由內政部進行統計分析整理之後公佈那當然呢也包括把資料回饋給衛福部作為施政的參考我們現在看到的是110年的資料那下一張是這個111年的資料\n115931\t143467\t市長你既然看過這個結論你有沒有發現什麼問題?我們現在目前大概就是說平均餘命大概都在延長嘛那這是一個一般的一個趨勢當然也是因為跟我們整個這個公共衛生健保的貢獻但確實就是說原住民的這個部分確實叫一般我們一般我想這個也不光台灣我想這個像比如澳洲紐西蘭等等這些都有類似的一個情況\n144687\t158291\t我們這個部分我們會我們會來持續來推動這部分我想是這樣子就是說數據的如實分析沒關係我先我等一下我們先繼續看好了我來帶你做一下這個數學\n159992\t189139\t那我們就是這個結論的這個內容標題都是一樣那原住民的平均餘命就是成上升趨勢還有跟全體國民差距成縮小趨勢前面喔都有加這個長期兩個字喔好像看起來都是沒有錯的可是這幾年的變化是真的是這樣嗎那次長依照你的了解這就是如此嗎\n194550\t200602\t如果不太確定,你也可以跟我講,不知道或是什麼,我會把你送去那個我們法案。我確實不太確定,謝謝。\n205926\t225591\t沒關係,我們再來看一下。這是原住民平均逾一命的各年資料,是乘這個上升的趨勢沒有錯。這個是原住民跟全體國民的平均逾一命的差距的資料。看起來也是在縮小,也沒錯。但是我們再看下一張問題來囉。\n228291\t253717\t如果我們看這個表這個答案就不簡單了之前大家有個說法包括去年審查原住民族健康法的時候衛福部也提供相同的資訊那105年到109年間這五年原住民的平均餘命總共提高了1.74歲我把速度放慢105年到109年原住民的平均餘命提高1.74歲是\n255777\t277455\t﹏那大家就四舍五入嘛﹏說我們平均移民都提高將近兩歲囉﹏那可是全體國人也是提高1.32歲﹏所以這五年原住民的平均移民提高的情況﹏並不是單純的就是說我們的這個好像想像中就是提高了這個將近兩歲。\n279497\t300902\t那我們再來看如果我們講到原住民與全體國人的差距政府公佈的資訊是109年到111年之間這三年縮短了1.47歲你如果沒有follow到我的速度我可以再重複放慢沒關係但是你要告訴我那可是實際上是這樣這麼單純嗎我們來看一下這個表二\n307033\t328018\t這個各個年齡層這三年間平均餘命差距都縮小了1.5歲左右可是我們看到下一排紅字的這個數據這三年全體國人的平均餘命卻下降了大約1.5歲所以這三年的縮短差距的背後\n328678\t353665\t是全體國人平均餘命下降的結果而不是原住民的平均餘命上升我再講一次這個是全體國人平均餘命下降的結果不是我們原住民平均餘命上升所以次長用單一數據然後說明原住民的平均餘命有大幅的改善你不覺得這個有很大的盲點嗎\n355837\t372268\t我同意,我同意那個委員的意思。好,所以我們剛剛做的算數你都有follow了。好,那次長,這次用單一數據說故事的問題,就是連衛福部送給這個行政院核定的原鄉健康不平等改善策略行動計畫,也是這麼寫的。\n374569\t391917\t結果害去年行政院頒布的新聞稿也是只寫平均餘命縮短差距幾歲,卻沒有提到其他的數據。其實這三年,原住民的平均餘命是稍微下降,大概少了0.01歲。所以次長這個問題,\n400281\t423319\t委員會的機關單位包括社家署、照護司、統計處等等都會用這個數據的單位你們一定要全面檢討而且要特別注意因為這樣很容易造成民眾的誤解而且你們每年提供資料給內政部的時候也都應該要跟內政部好好的溝通一下這個問題當一個數據交到你們手上的時候\n426682\t427672\t不是都只是\n428973\t456390\t就是應該要有很多的計算方式,橫向、縱向,看到底要怎麼加加減減,會有不一樣的結果出來。所以數據的分析,我們的如實分析其實是要找出問題的,是要研擬對策,然後要解決問題,不是說要來美化然後粉飾太平。所以我在這裡特別做這樣的提醒,那我待會會後我會給你\n457951\t480545\t這個不是假新聞,這是一個真新聞,但是它不是一個專業的新聞。那你也參考一下這個文件站的這個新聞稿。那因為你新上任,我多送你這個36秒讓你休息。我簡單回答一下就是說,我們在整個研究法裡面其實就是說你不同的測量就不同的結果啦。\n480965\t499919\t﹏那我想剛剛委員剛剛確實就是說也指出這裡面整個測量Major的一些問題﹏那這部分﹏Major可以一樣啊﹏但是你們計算怎麼看﹏是的沒錯﹏要自己研究﹏這邊我們會回來﹏我再跟同仁我們這邊再好好來研議﹏也非常感謝委員這邊的一個的一個修正﹏謝謝﹏反正這個跟那個案那個是不一樣的嗎﹏啊﹏沒有啦﹏跟麥當勞案機器那個是不一樣的﹏好﹏感謝委員謝謝﹏好謝謝﹏\n509540\t509762\t好,謝謝陳瑩委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席,麻煩請次長。好,請呂次長。我以為一般上來,通常備詢的首長都會說委員好先。委員好。好,次長好,因為我想跟你問好。好,沒關係,不要緊張。\n今天大家討論的主題是這個老人福利法那我想次長因為新上任可能不知道就是在過去我有很多次都提到這個老福法的問題就是原住民的老人的認定那我們一直都希望把它調整為55歲那原因呢就是因為原住民的平均餘命與全國國體這個全體國人的差距將近10歲\n這個說到平均餘命的問題,那個署長不用擔心我今天沒有要跟你argue要不要調到55歲。所以這個你可以會後再跟次長講。那次長你有沒有看過這個資料?有的,這個我有看到。你覺得他寫的好嗎?\n好了沒關係我們來我是故意問你一下那這是這個原住民檢疫生命表的分析內容那這個分析表的資料是每年由衛福部提供給內政部然後再由內政部進行統計分析整理之後公佈那當然呢也包括把資料回饋給衛福部作為施政的參考我們現在看到的是110年的資料那下一張是這個111年的資料\n市長你既然看過這個結論你有沒有發現什麼問題?我們現在目前大概就是說平均餘命大概都在延長嘛那這是一個一般的一個趨勢當然也是因為跟我們整個這個公共衛生健保的貢獻但確實就是說原住民的這個部分確實叫一般我們一般我想這個也不光台灣我想這個像比如澳洲紐西蘭等等這些都有類似的一個情況\n我們這個部分我們會我們會來持續來推動這部分我想是這樣子就是說數據的如實分析沒關係我先我等一下我們先繼續看好了我來帶你做一下這個數學\n那我們就是這個結論的這個內容標題都是一樣那原住民的平均餘命就是成上升趨勢還有跟全體國民差距成縮小趨勢前面喔都有加這個長期兩個字喔好像看起來都是沒有錯的可是這幾年的變化是真的是這樣嗎那次長依照你的了解這就是如此嗎\n如果不太確定,你也可以跟我講,不知道或是什麼,我會把你送去那個我們法案。我確實不太確定,謝謝。\n沒關係,我們再來看一下。這是原住民平均逾一命的各年資料,是乘這個上升的趨勢沒有錯。這個是原住民跟全體國民的平均逾一命的差距的資料。看起來也是在縮小,也沒錯。但是我們再看下一張問題來囉。\n如果我們看這個表這個答案就不簡單了之前大家有個說法包括去年審查原住民族健康法的時候衛福部也提供相同的資訊那105年到109年間這五年原住民的平均餘命總共提高了1.74歲我把速度放慢105年到109年原住民的平均餘命提高1.74歲是\n﹏那大家就四舍五入嘛﹏說我們平均移民都提高將近兩歲囉﹏那可是全體國人也是提高1.32歲﹏所以這五年原住民的平均移民提高的情況﹏並不是單純的就是說我們的這個好像想像中就是提高了這個將近兩歲。\n那我們再來看如果我們講到原住民與全體國人的差距政府公佈的資訊是109年到111年之間這三年縮短了1.47歲你如果沒有follow到我的速度我可以再重複放慢沒關係但是你要告訴我那可是實際上是這樣這麼單純嗎我們來看一下這個表二\n這個各個年齡層這三年間平均餘命差距都縮小了1.5歲左右可是我們看到下一排紅字的這個數據這三年全體國人的平均餘命卻下降了大約1.5歲所以這三年的縮短差距的背後\n是全體國人平均餘命下降的結果而不是原住民的平均餘命上升我再講一次這個是全體國人平均餘命下降的結果不是我們原住民平均餘命上升所以次長用單一數據然後說明原住民的平均餘命有大幅的改善你不覺得這個有很大的盲點嗎\n我同意,我同意那個委員的意思。好,所以我們剛剛做的算數你都有follow了。好,那次長,這次用單一數據說故事的問題,就是連衛福部送給這個行政院核定的原鄉健康不平等改善策略行動計畫,也是這麼寫的。\n結果害去年行政院頒布的新聞稿也是只寫平均餘命縮短差距幾歲,卻沒有提到其他的數據。其實這三年,原住民的平均餘命是稍微下降,大概少了0.01歲。所以次長這個問題,\n委員會的機關單位包括社家署、照護司、統計處等等都會用這個數據的單位你們一定要全面檢討而且要特別注意因為這樣很容易造成民眾的誤解而且你們每年提供資料給內政部的時候也都應該要跟內政部好好的溝通一下這個問題當一個數據交到你們手上的時候\n不是都只是\n就是應該要有很多的計算方式,橫向、縱向,看到底要怎麼加加減減,會有不一樣的結果出來。所以數據的分析,我們的如實分析其實是要找出問題的,是要研擬對策,然後要解決問題,不是說要來美化然後粉飾太平。所以我在這裡特別做這樣的提醒,那我待會會後我會給你\n這個不是假新聞,這是一個真新聞,但是它不是一個專業的新聞。那你也參考一下這個文件站的這個新聞稿。那因為你新上任,我多送你這個36秒讓你休息。我簡單回答一下就是說,我們在整個研究法裡面其實就是說你不同的測量就不同的結果啦。\n﹏那我想剛剛委員剛剛確實就是說也指出這裡面整個測量Major的一些問題﹏那這部分﹏Major可以一樣啊﹏但是你們計算怎麼看﹏是的沒錯﹏要自己研究﹏這邊我們會回來﹏我再跟同仁我們這邊再好好來研議﹏也非常感謝委員這邊的一個的一個修正﹏謝謝﹏反正這個跟那個案那個是不一樣的嗎﹏啊﹏沒有啦﹏跟麥當勞案機器那個是不一樣的﹏好﹏感謝委員謝謝﹏好謝謝﹏\n好,謝謝陳瑩委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.119 --> 00:31.968\n謝 謝 主 席 , 麻 煩 請 次 長 。 好 , 請 呂 次 長 。 我 以 為 一 般 上 來 , 通 常 備 詢 的 首 長 都 會 說 委 員 好 先 。 委 員 好 。 好 , 次 長 好 , 因 為 我 想 跟 你 問 好 。 好 , 沒 關 係 , 不 要 緊 張 。\n\n00:36.875 --> 00:56.419\n今 天 大 家 討 論 的 主 題 是 這 個 老 人 福 利 法 那 我 想 次 長 因 為 新 上 任 可 能 不 知 道 就 是 在 過 去 我 有 很 多 次 都 提 到 這 個 老 福 法 的 問 題 就 是 原 住 民 的 老 人 的 認 定 那 我 們 一 直 都 希 望 把 它 調 整 為 5 5 歲 那 原 因 呢 就 是 因 為 原 住 民 的 平 均 餘 命 與 全 國 國 體 這 個 全 體 國 人 的 差 距 將 近 1 0 歲\n\n01:02.441 --> 01:21.296\n這 個 說 到 平 均 餘 命 的 問 題 , 那 個 署 長 不 用 擔 心 我 今 天 沒 有 要 跟 你 a r g u e 要 不 要 調 到 5 5 歲 。 所 以 這 個 你 可 以 會 後 再 跟 次 長 講 。 那 次 長 你 有 沒 有 看 過 這 個 資 料 ? 有 的 , 這 個 我 有 看 到 。 你 覺 得 他 寫 的 好 嗎 ?\n\n01:27.571 --> 01:49.747\n好 了 沒 關 係 我 們 來 我 是 故 意 問 你 一 下 那 這 是 這 個 原 住 民 檢 疫 生 命 表 的 分 析 內 容 那 這 個 分 析 表 的 資 料 是 每 年 由 衛 福 部 提 供 給 內 政 部 然 後 再 由 內 政 部 進 行 統 計 分 析 整 理 之 後 公 佈 那 當 然 呢 也 包 括 把 資 料 回 饋 給 衛 福 部 作 為 施 政 的 參 考 我 們 現 在 看 到 的 是 1 1 0 年 的 資 料 那 下 一 張 是 這 個 1 1 1 年 的 資 料\n\n01:55.931 --> 02:23.467\n市 長 你 既 然 看 過 這 個 結 論 你 有 沒 有 發 現 什 麼 問 題 ? 我 們 現 在 目 前 大 概 就 是 說 平 均 餘 命 大 概 都 在 延 長 嘛 那 這 是 一 個 一 般 的 一 個 趨 勢 當 然 也 是 因 為 跟 我 們 整 個 這 個 公 共 衛 生 健 保 的 貢 獻 但 確 實 就 是 說 原 住 民 的 這 個 部 分 確 實 叫 一 般 我 們 一 般 我 想 這 個 也 不 光 台 灣 我 想 這 個 像 比 如 澳 洲 紐 西 蘭 等 等 這 些 都 有 類 似 的 一 個 情 況\n\n02:24.687 --> 02:38.291\n我 們 這 個 部 分 我 們 會 我 們 會 來 持 續 來 推 動 這 部 分 我 想 是 這 樣 子 就 是 說 數 據 的 如 實 分 析 沒 關 係 我 先 我 等 一 下 我 們 先 繼 續 看 好 了 我 來 帶 你 做 一 下 這 個 數 學\n\n02:39.992 --> 03:09.139\n那 我 們 就 是 這 個 結 論 的 這 個 內 容 標 題 都 是 一 樣 那 原 住 民 的 平 均 餘 命 就 是 成 上 升 趨 勢 還 有 跟 全 體 國 民 差 距 成 縮 小 趨 勢 前 面 喔 都 有 加 這 個 長 期 兩 個 字 喔 好 像 看 起 來 都 是 沒 有 錯 的 可 是 這 幾 年 的 變 化 是 真 的 是 這 樣 嗎 那 次 長 依 照 你 的 了 解 這 就 是 如 此 嗎\n\n03:14.550 --> 03:20.602\n如 果 不 太 確 定 , 你 也 可 以 跟 我 講 , 不 知 道 或 是 什 麼 , 我 會 把 你 送 去 那 個 我 們 法 案 。 我 確 實 不 太 確 定 , 謝 謝 。\n\n03:25.926 --> 03:45.591\n沒 關 係 , 我 們 再 來 看 一 下 。 這 是 原 住 民 平 均 逾 一 命 的 各 年 資 料 , 是 乘 這 個 上 升 的 趨 勢 沒 有 錯 。 這 個 是 原 住 民 跟 全 體 國 民 的 平 均 逾 一 命 的 差 距 的 資 料 。 看 起 來 也 是 在 縮 小 , 也 沒 錯 。 但 是 我 們 再 看 下 一 張 問 題 來 囉 。\n\n03:48.291 --> 04:13.717\n如 果 我 們 看 這 個 表 這 個 答 案 就 不 簡 單 了 之 前 大 家 有 個 說 法 包 括 去 年 審 查 原 住 民 族 健 康 法 的 時 候 衛 福 部 也 提 供 相 同 的 資 訊 那 1 0 5 年 到 1 0 9 年 間 這 五 年 原 住 民 的 平 均 餘 命 總 共 提 高 了 1 . 7 4 歲 我 把 速 度 放 慢 1 0 5 年 到 1 0 9 年 原 住 民 的 平 均 餘 命 提 高 1 . 7 4 歲 是\n\n04:15.777 --> 04:37.455\n﹏ 那 大 家 就 四 舍 五 入 嘛 ﹏ 說 我 們 平 均 移 民 都 提 高 將 近 兩 歲 囉 ﹏ 那 可 是 全 體 國 人 也 是 提 高 1 . 3 2 歲 ﹏ 所 以 這 五 年 原 住 民 的 平 均 移 民 提 高 的 情 況 ﹏ 並 不 是 單 純 的 就 是 說 我 們 的 這 個 好 像 想 像 中 就 是 提 高 了 這 個 將 近 兩 歲 。\n\n04:39.497 --> 05:00.902\n那 我 們 再 來 看 如 果 我 們 講 到 原 住 民 與 全 體 國 人 的 差 距 政 府 公 佈 的 資 訊 是 1 0 9 年 到 1 1 1 年 之 間 這 三 年 縮 短 了 1 . 4 7 歲 你 如 果 沒 有 f o l l o w 到 我 的 速 度 我 可 以 再 重 複 放 慢 沒 關 係 但 是 你 要 告 訴 我 那 可 是 實 際 上 是 這 樣 這 麼 單 純 嗎 我 們 來 看 一 下 這 個 表 二\n\n05:07.033 --> 05:28.018\n這 個 各 個 年 齡 層 這 三 年 間 平 均 餘 命 差 距 都 縮 小 了 1 . 5 歲 左 右 可 是 我 們 看 到 下 一 排 紅 字 的 這 個 數 據 這 三 年 全 體 國 人 的 平 均 餘 命 卻 下 降 了 大 約 1 . 5 歲 所 以 這 三 年 的 縮 短 差 距 的 背 後\n\n05:28.678 --> 05:53.665\n是 全 體 國 人 平 均 餘 命 下 降 的 結 果 而 不 是 原 住 民 的 平 均 餘 命 上 升 我 再 講 一 次 這 個 是 全 體 國 人 平 均 餘 命 下 降 的 結 果 不 是 我 們 原 住 民 平 均 餘 命 上 升 所 以 次 長 用 單 一 數 據 然 後 說 明 原 住 民 的 平 均 餘 命 有 大 幅 的 改 善 你 不 覺 得 這 個 有 很 大 的 盲 點 嗎\n\n05:55.837 --> 06:12.268\n我 同 意 , 我 同 意 那 個 委 員 的 意 思 。 好 , 所 以 我 們 剛 剛 做 的 算 數 你 都 有 f o l l o w 了 。 好 , 那 次 長 , 這 次 用 單 一 數 據 說 故 事 的 問 題 , 就 是 連 衛 福 部 送 給 這 個 行 政 院 核 定 的 原 鄉 健 康 不 平 等 改 善 策 略 行 動 計 畫 , 也 是 這 麼 寫 的 。\n\n06:14.569 --> 06:31.917\n結 果 害 去 年 行 政 院 頒 布 的 新 聞 稿 也 是 只 寫 平 均 餘 命 縮 短 差 距 幾 歲 , 卻 沒 有 提 到 其 他 的 數 據 。 其 實 這 三 年 , 原 住 民 的 平 均 餘 命 是 稍 微 下 降 , 大 概 少 了 0 . 0 1 歲 。 所 以 次 長 這 個 問 題 ,\n\n06:40.281 --> 07:03.319\n委 員 會 的 機 關 單 位 包 括 社 家 署 、 照 護 司 、 統 計 處 等 等 都 會 用 這 個 數 據 的 單 位 你 們 一 定 要 全 面 檢 討 而 且 要 特 別 注 意 因 為 這 樣 很 容 易 造 成 民 眾 的 誤 解 而 且 你 們 每 年 提 供 資 料 給 內 政 部 的 時 候 也 都 應 該 要 跟 內 政 部 好 好 的 溝 通 一 下 這 個 問 題 當 一 個 數 據 交 到 你 們 手 上 的 時 候\n\n07:06.682 --> 07:07.672\n不 是 都 只 是\n\n07:08.973 --> 07:36.390\n就 是 應 該 要 有 很 多 的 計 算 方 式 , 橫 向 、 縱 向 , 看 到 底 要 怎 麼 加 加 減 減 , 會 有 不 一 樣 的 結 果 出 來 。 所 以 數 據 的 分 析 , 我 們 的 如 實 分 析 其 實 是 要 找 出 問 題 的 , 是 要 研 擬 對 策 , 然 後 要 解 決 問 題 , 不 是 說 要 來 美 化 然 後 粉 飾 太 平 。 所 以 我 在 這 裡 特 別 做 這 樣 的 提 醒 , 那 我 待 會 會 後 我 會 給 你\n\n07:37.951 --> 08:00.545\n這 個 不 是 假 新 聞 , 這 是 一 個 真 新 聞 , 但 是 它 不 是 一 個 專 業 的 新 聞 。 那 你 也 參 考 一 下 這 個 文 件 站 的 這 個 新 聞 稿 。 那 因 為 你 新 上 任 , 我 多 送 你 這 個 3 6 秒 讓 你 休 息 。 我 簡 單 回 答 一 下 就 是 說 , 我 們 在 整 個 研 究 法 裡 面 其 實 就 是 說 你 不 同 的 測 量 就 不 同 的 結 果 啦 。\n\n08:00.965 --> 08:19.919\n﹏ 那 我 想 剛 剛 委 員 剛 剛 確 實 就 是 說 也 指 出 這 裡 面 整 個 測 量 M a j o r 的 一 些 問 題 ﹏ 那 這 部 分 ﹏ M a j o r 可 以 一 樣 啊 ﹏ 但 是 你 們 計 算 怎 麼 看 ﹏ 是 的 沒 錯 ﹏ 要 自 己 研 究 ﹏ 這 邊 我 們 會 回 來 ﹏ 我 再 跟 同 仁 我 們 這 邊 再 好 好 來 研 議 ﹏ 也 非 常 感 謝 委 員 這 邊 的 一 個 的 一 個 修 正 ﹏ 謝 謝 ﹏ 反 正 這 個 跟 那 個 案 那 個 是 不 一 樣 的 嗎 ﹏ 啊 ﹏ 沒 有 啦 ﹏ 跟 麥 當 勞 案 機 器 那 個 是 不 一 樣 的 ﹏ 好 ﹏ 感 謝 委 員 謝 謝 ﹏ 好 謝 謝 ﹏\n\n08:29.540 --> 08:29.762\n好 , 謝 謝 陳 瑩 委 員\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.119,"end":31.968,"text":"謝謝主席,麻煩請次長。好,請呂次長。我以為一般上來,通常備詢的首長都會說委員好先。委員好。好,次長好,因為我想跟你問好。好,沒關係,不要緊張。"},{"start":36.875,"end":56.419,"text":"今天大家討論的主題是這個老人福利法那我想次長因為新上任可能不知道就是在過去我有很多次都提到這個老福法的問題就是原住民的老人的認定那我們一直都希望把它調整為55歲那原因呢就是因為原住民的平均餘命與全國國體這個全體國人的差距將近10歲"},{"start":62.441,"end":81.296,"text":"這個說到平均餘命的問題,那個署長不用擔心我今天沒有要跟你argue要不要調到55歲。所以這個你可以會後再跟次長講。那次長你有沒有看過這個資料?有的,這個我有看到。你覺得他寫的好嗎?"},{"start":87.571,"end":109.747,"text":"好了沒關係我們來我是故意問你一下那這是這個原住民檢疫生命表的分析內容那這個分析表的資料是每年由衛福部提供給內政部然後再由內政部進行統計分析整理之後公佈那當然呢也包括把資料回饋給衛福部作為施政的參考我們現在看到的是110年的資料那下一張是這個111年的資料"},{"start":115.931,"end":143.467,"text":"市長你既然看過這個結論你有沒有發現什麼問題?我們現在目前大概就是說平均餘命大概都在延長嘛那這是一個一般的一個趨勢當然也是因為跟我們整個這個公共衛生健保的貢獻但確實就是說原住民的這個部分確實叫一般我們一般我想這個也不光台灣我想這個像比如澳洲紐西蘭等等這些都有類似的一個情況"},{"start":144.687,"end":158.291,"text":"我們這個部分我們會我們會來持續來推動這部分我想是這樣子就是說數據的如實分析沒關係我先我等一下我們先繼續看好了我來帶你做一下這個數學"},{"start":159.992,"end":189.139,"text":"那我們就是這個結論的這個內容標題都是一樣那原住民的平均餘命就是成上升趨勢還有跟全體國民差距成縮小趨勢前面喔都有加這個長期兩個字喔好像看起來都是沒有錯的可是這幾年的變化是真的是這樣嗎那次長依照你的了解這就是如此嗎"},{"start":194.55,"end":200.602,"text":"如果不太確定,你也可以跟我講,不知道或是什麼,我會把你送去那個我們法案。我確實不太確定,謝謝。"},{"start":205.926,"end":225.591,"text":"沒關係,我們再來看一下。這是原住民平均逾一命的各年資料,是乘這個上升的趨勢沒有錯。這個是原住民跟全體國民的平均逾一命的差距的資料。看起來也是在縮小,也沒錯。但是我們再看下一張問題來囉。"},{"start":228.291,"end":253.717,"text":"如果我們看這個表這個答案就不簡單了之前大家有個說法包括去年審查原住民族健康法的時候衛福部也提供相同的資訊那105年到109年間這五年原住民的平均餘命總共提高了1.74歲我把速度放慢105年到109年原住民的平均餘命提高1.74歲是"},{"start":255.777,"end":277.455,"text":" ﹏那大家就四舍五入嘛﹏說我們平均移民都提高將近兩歲囉﹏那可是全體國人也是提高1.32歲﹏所以這五年原住民的平均移民提高的情況﹏並不是單純的就是說我們的這個好像想像中就是提高了這個將近兩歲。"},{"start":279.497,"end":300.902,"text":"那我們再來看如果我們講到原住民與全體國人的差距政府公佈的資訊是109年到111年之間這三年縮短了1.47歲你如果沒有follow到我的速度我可以再重複放慢沒關係但是你要告訴我那可是實際上是這樣這麼單純嗎我們來看一下這個表二"},{"start":307.033,"end":328.018,"text":"這個各個年齡層這三年間平均餘命差距都縮小了1.5歲左右可是我們看到下一排紅字的這個數據這三年全體國人的平均餘命卻下降了大約1.5歲所以這三年的縮短差距的背後"},{"start":328.678,"end":353.665,"text":"是全體國人平均餘命下降的結果而不是原住民的平均餘命上升我再講一次這個是全體國人平均餘命下降的結果不是我們原住民平均餘命上升所以次長用單一數據然後說明原住民的平均餘命有大幅的改善你不覺得這個有很大的盲點嗎"},{"start":355.837,"end":372.268,"text":"我同意,我同意那個委員的意思。好,所以我們剛剛做的算數你都有follow了。好,那次長,這次用單一數據說故事的問題,就是連衛福部送給這個行政院核定的原鄉健康不平等改善策略行動計畫,也是這麼寫的。"},{"start":374.569,"end":391.917,"text":"結果害去年行政院頒布的新聞稿也是只寫平均餘命縮短差距幾歲,卻沒有提到其他的數據。其實這三年,原住民的平均餘命是稍微下降,大概少了0.01歲。所以次長這個問題,"},{"start":400.281,"end":423.319,"text":"委員會的機關單位包括社家署、照護司、統計處等等都會用這個數據的單位你們一定要全面檢討而且要特別注意因為這樣很容易造成民眾的誤解而且你們每年提供資料給內政部的時候也都應該要跟內政部好好的溝通一下這個問題當一個數據交到你們手上的時候"},{"start":426.682,"end":427.672,"text":"不是都只是"},{"start":428.973,"end":456.39,"text":"就是應該要有很多的計算方式,橫向、縱向,看到底要怎麼加加減減,會有不一樣的結果出來。所以數據的分析,我們的如實分析其實是要找出問題的,是要研擬對策,然後要解決問題,不是說要來美化然後粉飾太平。所以我在這裡特別做這樣的提醒,那我待會會後我會給你"},{"start":457.951,"end":480.545,"text":"這個不是假新聞,這是一個真新聞,但是它不是一個專業的新聞。那你也參考一下這個文件站的這個新聞稿。那因為你新上任,我多送你這個36秒讓你休息。我簡單回答一下就是說,我們在整個研究法裡面其實就是說你不同的測量就不同的結果啦。"},{"start":480.965,"end":499.919,"text":" ﹏那我想剛剛委員剛剛確實就是說也指出這裡面整個測量Major的一些問題﹏那這部分﹏Major可以一樣啊﹏但是你們計算怎麼看﹏是的沒錯﹏要自己研究﹏這邊我們會回來﹏我再跟同仁我們這邊再好好來研議﹏也非常感謝委員這邊的一個的一個修正﹏謝謝﹏反正這個跟那個案那個是不一樣的嗎﹏啊﹏沒有啦﹏跟麥當勞案機器那個是不一樣的﹏好﹏感謝委員謝謝﹏好謝謝﹏"},{"start":509.54,"end":509.762,"text":"好,謝謝陳瑩委員"}]}}}}