{"id":153371,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153371","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/bbbc431469b8aeba54440efa755792974622ddde1e3527b9446d6a815e913744609e1c80bea229035ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"10:07:06 - 10:19:52","影片長度":"00:12:46","會議時間":"2024-05-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請財政部莊部長翠雲、金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆率所屬相關單位就「如何精進ESG制度評鑑、永續報告書及公司治理評鑑制度，並導引金融機構落實放貸及貸後管理工作」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-30","start_time":"2024-05-30T10:07:06+08:00","end_time":"2024-05-30T10:19:52+08:00","duration":766,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-15"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":336,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（10時7分）謝謝主席，我先請財政部長。"],["主席：莊部長請。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：部長，下面今天也有很多我們公股行庫的董事長和總經理，在今年的3月底，由國發會、經濟部，還有找了財政部，要求我們公股行庫要參與整個離岸風電3-1期的聯貸案。現在離岸風電當然現在是我們能源政策的一個主力，可是我們的公股行庫對於參與聯貸，因為對於未來離岸風電的前景有所疑慮，所以在3月底曾經邀集了八大行庫一起來談論，事實上就是請業者喝咖啡啦，希望他們能參與。我想瞭解一下，到目前為止，這個案子的進度如何？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，有關這個事情，我知道國發會，還有經濟部有邀請我們公股行庫一起去參與這樣的一個會談，其實第一個是讓大家瞭解到離岸風電的發展情形，因為在離岸風電的聯貸案……"],["王委員鴻薇：我要知道進度，對不起，因為我時間關係，我要知道到目前為止的進度如何。"],["莊部長翠雲：目前為止還是銀行在自行做評估啊。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以到目前為止，目前八大行庫還沒有決定要去參與離岸風電3-1期的聯貸案？"],["莊部長翠雲：就我所知，我並不清楚，可能要看看行庫的作業。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，時間暫停一下。到底財政部能不能確定，我要知道現在的進度，到底參與了還是沒有參與？還是正在評估中？"],["莊部長翠雲：應該是評估中。"],["王委員鴻薇：還正在評估中？"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，那我就不花時間請行庫的董事長、總經理上來說明了。我覺得這件事情跟我們長期以來，包含我們今天的討論內容也是一樣，我們當然鼓勵我們的行庫、銀行能夠參與包含綠電，包含ESG這些相關的資金的融資，但是我覺得銀行的風險控管也非常重要，尤其在離岸風電3-1期，其實我也瞭解，為什麼我們的公股行庫對這個還裹足不前，當然因為現在包含離岸風電的價格實在太高了，他們現在開出一度電六塊錢，這個價格是連台積電都買不下手的，因為台積電說六塊錢他們是買不了的，所以如果連台積電都不能買，那未來它的買主在哪裡？所以它的財務報告要怎麼樣來做評估？所以我在這邊要特別講的是，新政府上臺以後，我要拜託的是，不要再像舊政府那個時候，已經即將卸任，但是對這麼重要一個聯貸案，找了這麼多的行庫，事實上就是給行庫施壓啊，所以我要講的就是，請尊重銀行它的風險評估權，好不好？所以我希望財政部在這個部分也能夠把關，可不可以？"],["莊部長翠雲：我想銀行在貸款的時候，一定是要遵守五P的原則，包含風險的評估，也是委員所提到的，這個在做徵信貸款的時候，都是要評估的一個項目。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，時間暫停一下，我再請金管會的彭主委。"],["主席（郭委員國文）：有請彭主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：部長跟主委，我想現在在兩部之間，市場上非常關心的就是我們當沖的稅率是不是要繼續調降？如果要調降的話，要調降多久？很難得，我在質詢這個問題的時候，大部分都是只有財政部或金管會單獨列席，現在你們兩大巨頭都在這裡，有關於當沖降稅的常態化，我想請問一下莊部長，現在財政部的態度是什麼？還是認為常態化不可行？還是說你們要有所讓步？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，您說的常態化，意思就是說不再……"],["王委員鴻薇：降了再降，降了再降，一直降！"],["莊部長翠雲：就是說在期限上，在適用的時間上，我想這個部分，對於有關租稅的優惠，它必須要有一個時限，而不可能是成為一個常態化的情形，這是納稅者權利保護法的一些規定，就是這樣子。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，現在金管會對於當沖稅率的降稅又提出要再延長五年，請問財政部現在的態度是什麼？"],["莊部長翠雲：對於金管會的建議意見，他們其實在年初的時候就有到財政部，對於有關當沖降稅這個事情，社會各界都有不同的意見，有贊成的，也有質疑的，關於各界的意見我們都蒐集以後，我們對於有關質疑需要釐清的部分，也再請金管會就這個部分再做一些評估，以及給我們一個更詳細的資料。"],["王委員鴻薇：部長跟主委，我覺得這件事情，因為顯然財政部跟金管會各自站在自己部會不同的立場，到目前為止還沒有一個決斷。我先講一下我的態度，第一個，我的態度過去幾次在財委會上都講得非常清楚，我並不贊成當沖稅還要繼續的減半，而且要繼續延長五年，因為我覺得從2017年開始一再的延長，而當時所要達成的一些效果，事實上都已經看到了。我覺得不應該像吃嗎啡一樣，覺得要一吃再吃，這樣子反而對市場不健全，不然的話，你們就回去好好地討論，如果你覺得當沖的稅率就是應該減半，你就是永久性的減半，而不是一再的延長，我覺得這是破壞了整個稅制，這個稅制的穩定性是不足的，這是第一個。","第二個，因為年底即將到期，我也希望兩個部會能夠儘快地做決定，因為任何一個市場都是這樣的，它的不穩定因素越多，它的不穩定因素越久，對於市場至少在短期上，它的效應也是不夠好的，因為也許現在市場充滿一片的樂觀啊，認為金管會提出來，現在新政府應該不怕證券市場受到波動，應該就是可以得逞，可是我覺得不穩定的因素應該儘量的把它消去，可不可以？"],["莊部長翠雲：瞭解，委員這個建議……"],["王委員鴻薇：好，那請問一下，你們什麼時候會決定呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：我想這個部分，金管會也在持續的蒐集資料，我們兩部會做一個充分的討論。"],["王委員鴻薇：什麼時候可以決定嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：這個決定，我想我們會再做一個討論。"],["王委員鴻薇：6月底可不可以？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分因為也涉及到一些修法，如果是動的話，就會涉及到法律的修正，這個部分我想應該還要有一定的程序。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你到現在都不願意去承諾，我還是覺得你們能夠儘快地把它做一個了斷啦，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：時間暫停一下，部長先請回。","主委，今天談我們要怎麼導入ESG，我也看了你們的報告，其實金融機構在做ESG評鑑也非常賣力，不過在國內，甚至在國際間，對於ESG評鑑的準則，到目前為止還有很多討論，甚至也有很多人對於它的信度或者信任程度，其實也還存在很多驗證，比如Rate the Raters Report的調查顯示，國際上受訪者對於ESG評比的信任程度，事實上是下降的。相關的評比很多，但是到底這些評比可不可信，其實在國際上都還有爭議。","國際間對於ESG評比機構的監管，有的是用監管態度，譬如歐盟是直接用證券及市場管理局監管，但日本就不是用監管方式，而是由金融廳提出準則。請問主委，有關ESG評鑑，現在市場的評鑑很多，但是我們並沒有一個國家級的評鑑標準，未來有關ESG評鑑，金管會願意當扛霸子，就是願意把它放在金管會這邊，不管是提出準則也好，或是由你們來監管也好，金管會有這樣的準備嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：報告委員，剛剛也跟各位委員報告過，現階段是先由交易所做公司治理評鑑，另外，現在研訓院也在做永續金融評鑑，我們是按部就班，當然未來假設這個政策要達成，我們要優化……"],["王委員鴻薇：這是未來一定會走的政策，這個毋庸置疑。"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實金管會對於國際上制度的演變都持續關注，當然，只要有助於未來優化我們永續金融的發展及ESG的促進，我想剛剛委員提的很好，我們都會參酌各國的作法，再來看看接下來的下一步可以怎麼做。"],["王委員鴻薇：我覺得我這個可能是一個大哉問，因為國際間大家也是慢慢在摸索，有的國家、地區覺得要用比較強力的監管方式，以免它太過混亂；也有些國家覺得不要用監管方式，只要設立一些準則就好了，但是在臺灣，到目前為止，不管是行政院、環境部、經濟部或者金管會，到現在為止，大家好像都是各自做各自的，每個都覺得ESG好重要、好重要，評鑑確實很重要，但第一個問題，未來主管單位到底是誰？主管機關到底是誰？他也許用監管的，也許用比較鬆散方式，我覺得都應該要儘快做出定論。","另外一個部分，我覺得這並不是金管會的責任，但是我在這邊要提出來，因為現在整個市場、社會都覺得ESG很重要，所以已經出現很多詐騙集團了，有很多小資族希望趕上這班列車，然後他們花了大錢，可能幾萬、十萬、二十萬、三十萬，這對他們來講是大錢，希望可以拿到證照，結果最後一堆人被騙了，因為事實上這個機構也不是正當的機構，也沒有認證，他們花了大錢，後來發現這只是一個上課證明，根本不是任何證照，所以從高層來講，到底我們的主管機關是誰？評鑑制度可不可以信賴？下到坊間這些所謂的ESG課程，根本就是在開補習班；開補習班也就算了，最後還變成詐騙集團，所以我真的覺得，當政府一再宣傳很重視ESG制度的建立，那麼我們就要思考如何去協助等等，不要讓它變成是詐騙集團的工具，這一點非常重要。我們每一次的質詢都要留下紀錄，這個部分，包含我們立法委員，包含所有官員，都應該要避免這樣一個政策，在它還不是很穩定、還很年輕、還不成熟的時候，反而成為民間這些不肖業者的詐騙工具，好不好？謝謝。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝王鴻薇委員的質詢。","接著請顏寬恒委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":274,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-15","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","王鴻薇","顏寬恒","賴惠員","李坤城","李彥秀","黃珊珊","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王世堅","羅明才","陳玉珍","黃國昌","鍾佳濱","林楚茵","邱志偉","張智倫","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘"],"page_start":209,"meetingDate":["2024-05-30"],"gazette_id":"1135401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135401_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請財政部莊部長翠雲、金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆率所屬相關單位就「如何精進 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\"score\": 0.473}, {\"word\": \"著\", \"start\": 735.794, \"end\": 735.874, \"score\": 0.496}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 735.874, \"end\": 735.894, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"顏\"}, {\"word\": \"寬\"}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 735.894, \"end\": 736.134, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 736.134, \"end\": 736.154, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"en\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,570 --> 00:00:25,326\n來 莊 部 長 請 來 莊 部 長 委 員 好 好 部 長 下 面 今 天 也 有 很 多 我 們 公 股 行 庫 的 董 事 長 和 總 經 理 在 今 年 的 3 月 底 由 國 發 會 、 經 濟 部 還 有 找 了 財 政 部 要 求 我 們 公 股 行 庫 要 參 與 我 們 整 個 的 離 岸 風 電 三 支 一 旗 的 連 帶 案\n\n2\n00:00:26,991 --> 00:00:27,151\n王 鴻 薇 議 員\n\n3\n00:00:48,456 --> 00:00:48,696\n王 鴻 薇 議 員\n\n4\n00:01:07,731 --> 00:01:17,858\n其 實 第 一 個 是 讓 大 家 了 解 到 離 岸 豐 電 的 一 個 發 展 情 形 因 為 在 離 岸 豐 電 的 連 帶 案 我 要 知 道 進 度 對 不 起 因 為 我 時 間 關 係 我 要 知 道 到 目 前 為 止 進 度 如 何 目 前 為 止 還 是 銀 行 還 是 我 們 跟 銀 行 在 自 行 的 一 個 在 評 估 所 以 到 目 前 為 止 就 是 我 們 目 前 八 大 行 庫 還 沒 有 決 定 要 去 參 與 離 岸 豐 電 的 三 正 一 期 的 連 帶 案\n\n5\n00:01:33,867 --> 00:01:49,972\n就 我 所 知 我 並 不 清 楚 我 可 能 要 看 看 行 庫 的 作 業 對 好 時 間 暫 停 一 下 那 麼 到 底 我 們 財 政 部 能 不 能 確 定 我 要 知 道 現 在 的 進 度 到 底 參 與 了 還 是 沒 有 參 與 還 是 站 在 評 估 中\n\n6\n00:01:51,682 --> 00:01:58,107\n應 該 是 評 估 中 還 正 在 評 估 中 那 我 就 不 花 時 間 請 這 個 航 庫 的 董 事 長 總 經 理 上 來 說 明 了 我 覺 得 這 件 事 情 跟 我 們 其 實 長 期 以 來 包 含 我 們 今 天 的 討 論 內 容 也 是 一 樣 我 們 當 然 鼓 勵 我 們 的 航 庫 銀 行 能 夠 參 與 這 個 我 們 包 含 綠 電 包 含 E S G 的 相 關 的 這 些 資 金 的 融 資 但 是 呢\n\n7\n00:02:18,584 --> 00:02:18,624\n王 鴻 薇 議 員\n\n8\n00:02:36,235 --> 00:02:40,518\n他 們 現 在 開 出 說 一 度 店 6 塊 錢 你 這 個 價 格 是 連 台 積 電 都 買 不 下 手 的 因 為 台 積 電 說 6 塊 錢 他 們 是 買 不 了 的 所 以 如 果 連 台 積 電 都 不 能 買 那 未 來 他 的 買 主 在 哪 裡 所 以 他 的 財 務 報 告 要 怎 麼 樣 來 做 評 估 所 以 我 在 這 邊 要 特 別 講 的 是 新 政 府 上 台 以 後\n\n9\n00:02:58,368 --> 00:03:21,628\n我 要 拜 託 的 是 不 要 再 像 舊 政 府 那 個 時 候 已 經 即 將 卸 任 但 是 呢 這 麼 重 要 一 個 連 帶 案 找 了 這 麼 多 的 行 庫 事 實 上 就 是 給 行 庫 施 壓 呀 所 以 我 要 講 的 就 是 請 尊 重 銀 行 的 他 的 一 個 風 險 的 評 估 權 好 不 好 所 以 我 希 望 財 政 部 在 這 個 部 分 也 能 夠 把 關 可 不 可 以\n\n10\n00:03:22,660 --> 00:03:23,100\n有 請 彭 主 委\n\n11\n00:03:43,766 --> 00:04:08,017\n委 員 好 部 長 跟 主 委 我 想 現 在 在 兩 部 之 間 我 們 事 實 上 非 常 關 心 的 就 是 我 們 當 沖 的 稅 率 是 不 是 要 繼 續 調 降 那 麼 要 調 降 的 話 要 調 降 多 久 那 麼 很 難 得 我 在 執 行 這 個 問 題 的 時 候 大 部 分 財 政 部 就 金 管 會 那 現 在 你 們 兩 大 巨 頭 都 在 這 裡\n\n12\n00:04:09,281 --> 00:04:11,543\n有 關 於 當 沖 降 稅 的 常 態 化 我 想 請 問 一 下 我 們 的 莊 部 長 現 在 我 們 財 政 部 的 態 度 是 什 麼 還 是 認 為 常 態 化 不 可 行 還 是 說 你 們 要 有 所 讓 步 委 員 您 說 的 常 態 化 意 思 就 是 說 降 了 再 降 降 了 再 降 一 直 降 就 是 說 在 期 限 上 就 是 在 適 用 的 時 間 上 我 想 這 個 部 分 對 於 有 關 諸 會\n\n13\n00:04:34,884 --> 00:04:36,005\n現 在 金 管 會 對 於 當 沖 稅 率 的 降 稅 現 在 又 提 出 要 再 延 長 5 年\n\n14\n00:04:54,361 --> 00:05:18,739\n現 在 財 政 部 的 態 度 是 什 麼 對 於 金 管 會 的 一 個 建 議 意 見 他 們 其 實 在 年 初 的 時 候 就 有 到 財 政 部 那 對 於 有 關 當 沖 降 稅 這 個 事 情 社 會 各 界 都 有 不 同 的 意 見 有 贊 成 的 也 有 質 疑 的 那 對 於 各 界 的 意 見 我 們 都 收 集 以 後 我 們 對 於 有 關 質 疑 需 要 釐 清 的 部 分 也 再 請 金 管 會 這 個 部 分 再 做 一 些 評 估 以 及 給 我 們 一 個 更 詳 細 的 一 個 資 料\n\n15\n00:05:20,961 --> 00:05:30,386\n部 長 跟 主 委 我 覺 得 這 件 事 情 因 為 顯 然 財 政 部 跟 金 管 會 各 自 站 在 自 己 部 會 不 同 的 立 場 到 目 前 為 止 還 沒 有 一 個 決 斷 那 麼 我 先 講 一 下 我 的 態 度 第 一 個 我 的 態 度 過 去 幾 次 在 我 們 的 參 會 我 講 得 非 常 清 楚 我 並 不 贊 成 當 沖 稅 還 要 繼 續 的 減 半 而 且 要 繼 續 延 長 五 年\n\n16\n00:05:47,614 --> 00:05:51,097\n因 為 我 覺 得 從 2 0 1 7 年 開 始 一 再 的 延 長 而 當 時 所 要 達 成 的 一 些 效 果 事 實 上 都 已 經 看 到 了 我 覺 得 不 應 該 像 吃 馬 飛 一 樣 覺 得 要 一 吃 再 吃 這 樣 子 反 而 對 市 場 不 健 全\n\n17\n00:06:03,388 --> 00:06:11,435\n不 然 的 話 你 們 就 回 去 好 好 的 討 論 如 果 你 覺 得 當 初 的 稅 率 不 應 該 就 是 應 該 減 半 你 就 是 永 久 性 的 減 半 而 不 是 一 再 的 延 長 我 覺 得 這 是 破 壞 了 整 個 的 這 個 稅 制 這 個 稅 制 的 穩 定 性 是 不 足 的 這 是 第 一 個 第 二 個 因 為 你 們 年 底 即 將 到 期 那 我 也 希 望 兩 個 部 會 能 夠 盡 快 的 做 決 定 因 為 任 何 一 個 市 場 都 是 這 樣 的\n\n18\n00:06:32,412 --> 00:06:58,662\n他 的 不 穩 定 因 素 越 多 他 的 不 穩 定 因 素 越 久 對 於 市 場 至 少 在 短 期 上 他 的 效 應 也 是 不 夠 好 的 因 為 也 許 現 在 市 場 充 滿 一 片 的 樂 觀 因 為 認 為 今 晚 會 提 出 來 那 麼 現 在 新 政 府 應 該 不 怕 這 個 這 個 證 券 市 場 受 到 波 動 應 該 就 是 可 以 得 逞 可 是 我 覺 得 不 穩 定 的 因 素 應 該 盡 量 的 把 它 消 去 可 不 可 以\n\n19\n00:06:59,774 --> 00:07:00,595\n六 月 底 可 不 可 以 ?\n\n20\n00:07:21,408 --> 00:07:37,619\n這 個 部 分 因 為 也 涉 及 到 一 些 修 法 如 果 是 動 的 話 就 要 涉 及 到 法 律 的 一 些 修 正 這 個 部 分 我 想 應 該 還 要 一 定 的 程 序 好 所 以 到 現 在 都 不 願 意 去 承 諾 我 還 是 覺 得 你 們 能 夠 盡 快 的 把 它 做 一 個 了 斷 好 不 好 時 間 暫 停 一 下 請 部 長 先 請 回 好 那 個 主 委\n\n21\n00:07:50,000 --> 00:08:06,774\n我 們 現 在 就 是 今 天 談 那 個 我 們 要 怎 麼 樣 導 入 E S G 那 我 也 看 了 你 們 的 報 告 那 所 以 呢 其 實 我 們 金 融 機 構 在 做 這 個 E S G 的 評 鑑 也 非 常 的 賣 力 不 過 呢 事 實 上 在 國 內 甚 至 在 國 際 間 對 於 E S G 評 鑑 的 準 則\n\n22\n00:08:09,756 --> 00:08:25,093\n到 目 前 為 止 還 有 很 多 的 討 論 而 且 甚 至 呢 也 有 很 多 人 對 於 他 的 這 個 信 度 或 者 信 任 程 度 其 實 也 還 帶 很 多 的 驗 證 那 比 如 說 這 個 是 國 際 上 的 T h e R e u t e r s R e p o r t\n\n23\n00:08:26,212 --> 00:08:43,361\n在 國 際 上 受 訪 者 對 E S G 評 比 的 信 任 程 度 事 實 上 是 下 降 的 那 因 為 其 實 這 個 評 比 很 多 但 是 呢 到 底 這 些 評 比 可 不 可 信 其 實 在 國 際 上 都 有 爭 議 好 我 們 現 在 看 到 就 是 說 在 這 個 國 際 間 E S G 的 評 比 機 構 的 監 管\n\n24\n00:08:46,903 --> 00:09:00,338\n有 的 是 用 監 管 的 態 度 比 如 說 歐 盟 他 直 接 用 證 券 及 市 場 管 理 局 來 做 監 管 可 是 像 日 本 他 們 並 不 做 用 監 管 的 方 式 他 只 是 由 金 融 提 出 準 則 那 我 想 請 問 一 下 我 們 E S G 評 鑑\n\n25\n00:09:04,755 --> 00:09:32,322\n現 在 市 場 的 評 鑑 也 很 多 但 是 呢 我 們 也 沒 有 什 麼 國 家 級 的 一 個 評 鑑 的 標 準 那 我 想 請 問 一 下 主 委 那 麼 未 來 E S G 的 評 鑑 我 們 金 管 會 願 意 當 扛 把 子 嗎 就 是 願 意 把 它 放 在 金 管 會 這 邊 不 管 是 提 出 準 則 也 好 或 者 是 你 們 來 做 監 管 也 好 金 管 會 有 這 樣 的 準 備 嗎\n\n26\n00:09:33,919 --> 00:09:53,685\n我 想 報 告 委 員 我 們 現 階 段 先 是 由 剛 剛 跟 各 位 報 告 交 易 所 做 公 司 治 理 評 鑑 另 外 的 話 就 現 在 那 個 研 訓 院 他 們 在 做 那 個 永 續 金 融 評 鑑 我 們 是 按 部 就 班 那 當 然 就 是 未 來 假 設 這 個 政 策 是 一 個 要 達 成 我 們 要 優 化 這 個 政 策 的 話 未 來 是 一 定 會 走 這 個 政 策 的\n\n27\n00:09:55,026 --> 00:10:11,998\n我 們 其 實 儘 管 會 對 於 國 際 上 的 制 度 的 演 變 我 們 都 持 續 的 關 注 當 然 只 要 有 助 於 未 來 優 化 我 們 永 續 金 融 的 發 展 以 及 未 來 E S G 的 這 樣 的 促 進 我 想 剛 剛 委 員 提 到 很 好 我 們 會 去 參 酌 各 國 的 做 法 再 來 看 看 我 們 接 下 來 下 一 步 可 以 怎 麼 來 做\n\n28\n00:10:13,018 --> 00:10:13,158\n王 鴻 薇 議 員\n\n29\n00:10:31,098 --> 00:10:46,749\n但 是 在 台 灣 我 真 的 目 前 為 止 不 管 從 行 政 院 或 者 環 境 部 或 者 經 濟 部 或 者 是 市 經 管 會 我 到 現 在 為 止 大 家 都 是 在 各 自 做 各 自 的 每 個 都 覺 得 說 E S G 好 重 要 、 E S G 好 重 要 評 鑑 確 實 很 重 要\n\n30\n00:10:48,931 --> 00:10:57,041\n所 以 第 一 個 就 是 未 來 的 主 管 單 位 到 底 是 誰 主 管 機 關 到 底 是 誰 他 也 許 用 監 管 的 他 也 許 是 用 比 較 鬆 散 的 我 覺 得 這 個 應 該 也 是 盡 快 的 做 定 論 那 另 外 一 個 部 分 我 覺 得 這 也 並 不 是 今 晚 會 的 責 任 但 是 我 在 這 邊 要 提 出 來\n\n31\n00:11:07,054 --> 00:11:13,198\n就 是 因 為 現 在 整 個 市 場 社 會 都 覺 得 E S G 很 重 要 現 在 已 經 出 現 很 多 詐 騙 集 團 了 啦 我 們 有 很 多 的 小 資 族 因 為 他 希 望 趕 上 這 班 列 車 然 後 他 們 花 了 大 錢 對 他 們 來 講 可 能 幾 萬 十 萬 二 十 萬 三 十 萬 對 他 們 來 講 是 大 錢 然 後 他 們 認 為 說 我 要 希 望 拿 到 證 照 結 果 最 後 一 堆 人 被 騙 了 因 為\n\n32\n00:11:32,370 --> 00:11:57,190\n身 上 這 個 機 構 也 不 是 一 個 正 當 的 機 構 也 沒 有 認 證 的 機 構 他 拿 後 來 他 花 了 大 錢 後 來 發 現 他 只 是 一 個 上 課 證 明 根 本 不 是 任 何 的 證 照 所 以 從 高 層 的 就 是 我 們 到 底 我 們 主 管 機 關 是 誰 我 們 評 鑑 制 度 可 不 可 以 信 賴 到 下 面 我 們 很 多 的 坊 間 這 些 所 謂 根 本 就 在 開 補 習 班 你 開 補 習 班 就 算 了 最 後 還 變 成 詐 騙 集 團\n\n33\n00:11:58,911 --> 00:12:14,353\n所 以 我 真 的 覺 得 當 我 們 政 府 一 再 的 宣 傳 我 們 很 重 視 E S G 的 這 個 制 度 的 建 立 我 們 要 怎 麼 樣 的 去 協 助 等 等 之 類 的 但 是 呢 不 要 變 成 詐 騙 集 團 的 工 具 這 一 點 非 常 的 重 要 啦\n\n34\n00:12:14,793 --> 00:12:16,154\n謝 謝 王 鴻 薇 委 員 的 質 詢 接 著 我 們 請 顏 寬 文 委 員 質 詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1570\t25326\t來 莊部長請來 莊部長委員好好部長 下面今天也有很多我們公股行庫的董事長和總經理在今年的3月底由國發會、經濟部還有找了財政部要求我們公股行庫要參與我們整個的離岸風電三支一旗的連帶案\n26991\t27151\t王鴻薇議員\n48456\t48696\t王鴻薇議員\n67731\t77858\t其實第一個是讓大家了解到離岸豐電的一個發展情形因為在離岸豐電的連帶案我要知道進度對不起因為我時間關係我要知道到目前為止進度如何目前為止還是銀行還是我們跟銀行在自行的一個在評估所以到目前為止就是我們目前八大行庫還沒有決定要去參與離岸豐電的三正一期的連帶案\n93867\t109972\t就我所知我並不清楚我可能要看看行庫的作業對好時間暫停一下那麼到底我們財政部能不能確定我要知道現在的進度到底參與了還是沒有參與還是站在評估中\n111682\t118107\t應該是評估中還正在評估中那我就不花時間請這個航庫的董事長總經理上來說明了我覺得這件事情跟我們其實長期以來包含我們今天的討論內容也是一樣我們當然鼓勵我們的航庫銀行能夠參與這個我們包含綠電包含ESG的相關的這些資金的融資但是呢\n138584\t138624\t王鴻薇議員\n156235\t160518\t他們現在開出說一度店6塊錢你這個價格是連台積電都買不下手的因為台積電說6塊錢他們是買不了的所以如果連台積電都不能買那未來他的買主在哪裡所以他的財務報告要怎麼樣來做評估所以我在這邊要特別講的是新政府上台以後\n178368\t201628\t我要拜託的是不要再像舊政府那個時候已經即將卸任但是呢這麼重要一個連帶案找了這麼多的行庫事實上就是給行庫施壓呀所以我要講的就是請尊重銀行的他的一個風險的評估權好不好所以我希望財政部在這個部分也能夠把關可不可以\n202660\t203100\t有請彭主委\n223766\t248017\t委員好部長跟主委我想現在在兩部之間我們事實上非常關心的就是我們當沖的稅率是不是要繼續調降那麼要調降的話要調降多久那麼很難得我在執行這個問題的時候大部分財政部就金管會那現在你們兩大巨頭都在這裡\n249281\t251543\t有關於當沖降稅的常態化我想請問一下我們的莊部長現在我們財政部的態度是什麼還是認為常態化不可行還是說你們要有所讓步委員您說的常態化意思就是說降了再降降了再降一直降就是說在期限上就是在適用的時間上我想這個部分對於有關諸會\n274884\t276005\t現在金管會對於當沖稅率的降稅現在又提出要再延長5年\n294361\t318739\t現在財政部的態度是什麼對於金管會的一個建議意見他們其實在年初的時候就有到財政部那對於有關當沖降稅這個事情社會各界都有不同的意見有贊成的也有質疑的那對於各界的意見我們都收集以後我們對於有關質疑需要釐清的部分也再請金管會這個部分再做一些評估以及給我們一個更詳細的一個資料\n320961\t330386\t部長跟主委我覺得這件事情因為顯然財政部跟金管會各自站在自己部會不同的立場到目前為止還沒有一個決斷那麼我先講一下我的態度第一個我的態度過去幾次在我們的參會我講得非常清楚我並不贊成當沖稅還要繼續的減半而且要繼續延長五年\n347614\t351097\t因為我覺得從2017年開始一再的延長而當時所要達成的一些效果事實上都已經看到了我覺得不應該像吃馬飛一樣覺得要一吃再吃這樣子反而對市場不健全\n363388\t371435\t不然的話你們就回去好好的討論如果你覺得當初的稅率不應該就是應該減半你就是永久性的減半而不是一再的延長我覺得這是破壞了整個的這個稅制這個稅制的穩定性是不足的這是第一個第二個因為你們年底即將到期那我也希望兩個部會能夠盡快的做決定因為任何一個市場都是這樣的\n392412\t418662\t他的不穩定因素越多他的不穩定因素越久對於市場至少在短期上他的效應也是不夠好的因為也許現在市場充滿一片的樂觀因為認為今晚會提出來那麼現在新政府應該不怕這個這個證券市場受到波動應該就是可以得逞可是我覺得不穩定的因素應該盡量的把它消去可不可以\n419774\t420595\t六月底可不可以?\n441408\t457619\t這個部分因為也涉及到一些修法如果是動的話就要涉及到法律的一些修正這個部分我想應該還要一定的程序好 所以到現在都不願意去承諾我還是覺得你們能夠盡快的把它做一個了斷好不好時間暫停一下 請部長先請回好 那個 主委\n470000\t486774\t我們現在就是今天談那個我們要怎麼樣導入ESG那我也看了你們的報告那所以呢其實我們金融機構在做這個ESG的評鑑也非常的賣力不過呢事實上在國內甚至在國際間對於ESG評鑑的準則\n489756\t505093\t到目前為止還有很多的討論而且甚至呢也有很多人對於他的這個信度或者信任程度其實也還帶很多的驗證那比如說這個是國際上的The Reuters Report\n506212\t523361\t在國際上受訪者對ESG評比的信任程度事實上是下降的那因為其實這個評比很多但是呢到底這些評比可不可信其實在國際上都有爭議好我們現在看到就是說在這個國際間ESG的評比機構的監管\n526903\t540338\t有的是用監管的態度比如說歐盟他直接用證券及市場管理局來做監管可是像日本他們並不做用監管的方式他只是由金融提出準則那我想請問一下我們ESG評鑑\n544755\t572322\t現在市場的評鑑也很多但是呢我們也沒有什麼國家級的一個評鑑的標準那我想請問一下主委那麼未來ESG的評鑑我們金管會願意當扛把子嗎就是願意把它放在金管會這邊不管是提出準則也好或者是你們來做監管也好金管會有這樣的準備嗎\n573919\t593685\t我想報告委員我們現階段先是由剛剛跟各位報告交易所做公司治理評鑑另外的話就現在那個研訓院他們在做那個永續金融評鑑我們是按部就班那當然就是未來假設這個政策是一個要達成我們要優化這個政策的話未來是一定會走這個政策的\n595026\t611998\t我們其實儘管會對於國際上的制度的演變我們都持續的關注當然只要有助於未來優化我們永續金融的發展以及未來ESG的這樣的促進我想剛剛委員提到很好我們會去參酌各國的做法再來看看我們接下來下一步可以怎麼來做\n613018\t613158\t王鴻薇議員\n631098\t646749\t但是在台灣我真的目前為止不管從行政院或者環境部或者經濟部或者是市經管會我到現在為止大家都是在各自做各自的每個都覺得說ESG好重要、ESG好重要評鑑確實很重要\n648931\t657041\t所以第一個就是未來的主管單位到底是誰主管機關到底是誰他也許用監管的他也許是用比較鬆散的我覺得這個應該也是盡快的做定論那另外一個部分我覺得這也並不是今晚會的責任但是我在這邊要提出來\n667054\t673198\t就是因為現在整個市場社會都覺得ESG很重要現在已經出現很多詐騙集團了啦我們有很多的小資族因為他希望趕上這班列車然後他們花了大錢對他們來講可能幾萬十萬二十萬三十萬對他們來講是大錢然後他們認為說我要希望拿到證照結果最後一堆人被騙了因為\n692370\t717190\t身上這個機構也不是一個正當的機構也沒有認證的機構他拿後來他花了大錢後來發現他只是一個上課證明根本不是任何的證照所以從高層的就是我們到底我們主管機關是誰我們評鑑制度可不可以信賴到下面我們很多的坊間這些所謂根本就在開補習班你開補習班就算了最後還變成詐騙集團\n718911\t734353\t所以我真的覺得當我們政府一再的宣傳我們很重視ESG的這個制度的建立我們要怎麼樣的去協助等等之類的但是呢不要變成詐騙集團的工具這一點非常的重要啦\n734793\t736154\t謝謝王鴻薇委員的質詢 接著我們請顏寬文委員質詢\n","txt":"來 莊部長請來 莊部長委員好好部長 下面今天也有很多我們公股行庫的董事長和總經理在今年的3月底由國發會、經濟部還有找了財政部要求我們公股行庫要參與我們整個的離岸風電三支一旗的連帶案\n王鴻薇議員\n王鴻薇議員\n其實第一個是讓大家了解到離岸豐電的一個發展情形因為在離岸豐電的連帶案我要知道進度對不起因為我時間關係我要知道到目前為止進度如何目前為止還是銀行還是我們跟銀行在自行的一個在評估所以到目前為止就是我們目前八大行庫還沒有決定要去參與離岸豐電的三正一期的連帶案\n就我所知我並不清楚我可能要看看行庫的作業對好時間暫停一下那麼到底我們財政部能不能確定我要知道現在的進度到底參與了還是沒有參與還是站在評估中\n應該是評估中還正在評估中那我就不花時間請這個航庫的董事長總經理上來說明了我覺得這件事情跟我們其實長期以來包含我們今天的討論內容也是一樣我們當然鼓勵我們的航庫銀行能夠參與這個我們包含綠電包含ESG的相關的這些資金的融資但是呢\n王鴻薇議員\n他們現在開出說一度店6塊錢你這個價格是連台積電都買不下手的因為台積電說6塊錢他們是買不了的所以如果連台積電都不能買那未來他的買主在哪裡所以他的財務報告要怎麼樣來做評估所以我在這邊要特別講的是新政府上台以後\n我要拜託的是不要再像舊政府那個時候已經即將卸任但是呢這麼重要一個連帶案找了這麼多的行庫事實上就是給行庫施壓呀所以我要講的就是請尊重銀行的他的一個風險的評估權好不好所以我希望財政部在這個部分也能夠把關可不可以\n有請彭主委\n委員好部長跟主委我想現在在兩部之間我們事實上非常關心的就是我們當沖的稅率是不是要繼續調降那麼要調降的話要調降多久那麼很難得我在執行這個問題的時候大部分財政部就金管會那現在你們兩大巨頭都在這裡\n有關於當沖降稅的常態化我想請問一下我們的莊部長現在我們財政部的態度是什麼還是認為常態化不可行還是說你們要有所讓步委員您說的常態化意思就是說降了再降降了再降一直降就是說在期限上就是在適用的時間上我想這個部分對於有關諸會\n現在金管會對於當沖稅率的降稅現在又提出要再延長5年\n現在財政部的態度是什麼對於金管會的一個建議意見他們其實在年初的時候就有到財政部那對於有關當沖降稅這個事情社會各界都有不同的意見有贊成的也有質疑的那對於各界的意見我們都收集以後我們對於有關質疑需要釐清的部分也再請金管會這個部分再做一些評估以及給我們一個更詳細的一個資料\n部長跟主委我覺得這件事情因為顯然財政部跟金管會各自站在自己部會不同的立場到目前為止還沒有一個決斷那麼我先講一下我的態度第一個我的態度過去幾次在我們的參會我講得非常清楚我並不贊成當沖稅還要繼續的減半而且要繼續延長五年\n因為我覺得從2017年開始一再的延長而當時所要達成的一些效果事實上都已經看到了我覺得不應該像吃馬飛一樣覺得要一吃再吃這樣子反而對市場不健全\n不然的話你們就回去好好的討論如果你覺得當初的稅率不應該就是應該減半你就是永久性的減半而不是一再的延長我覺得這是破壞了整個的這個稅制這個稅制的穩定性是不足的這是第一個第二個因為你們年底即將到期那我也希望兩個部會能夠盡快的做決定因為任何一個市場都是這樣的\n他的不穩定因素越多他的不穩定因素越久對於市場至少在短期上他的效應也是不夠好的因為也許現在市場充滿一片的樂觀因為認為今晚會提出來那麼現在新政府應該不怕這個這個證券市場受到波動應該就是可以得逞可是我覺得不穩定的因素應該盡量的把它消去可不可以\n六月底可不可以?\n這個部分因為也涉及到一些修法如果是動的話就要涉及到法律的一些修正這個部分我想應該還要一定的程序好 所以到現在都不願意去承諾我還是覺得你們能夠盡快的把它做一個了斷好不好時間暫停一下 請部長先請回好 那個 主委\n我們現在就是今天談那個我們要怎麼樣導入ESG那我也看了你們的報告那所以呢其實我們金融機構在做這個ESG的評鑑也非常的賣力不過呢事實上在國內甚至在國際間對於ESG評鑑的準則\n到目前為止還有很多的討論而且甚至呢也有很多人對於他的這個信度或者信任程度其實也還帶很多的驗證那比如說這個是國際上的The Reuters Report\n在國際上受訪者對ESG評比的信任程度事實上是下降的那因為其實這個評比很多但是呢到底這些評比可不可信其實在國際上都有爭議好我們現在看到就是說在這個國際間ESG的評比機構的監管\n有的是用監管的態度比如說歐盟他直接用證券及市場管理局來做監管可是像日本他們並不做用監管的方式他只是由金融提出準則那我想請問一下我們ESG評鑑\n現在市場的評鑑也很多但是呢我們也沒有什麼國家級的一個評鑑的標準那我想請問一下主委那麼未來ESG的評鑑我們金管會願意當扛把子嗎就是願意把它放在金管會這邊不管是提出準則也好或者是你們來做監管也好金管會有這樣的準備嗎\n我想報告委員我們現階段先是由剛剛跟各位報告交易所做公司治理評鑑另外的話就現在那個研訓院他們在做那個永續金融評鑑我們是按部就班那當然就是未來假設這個政策是一個要達成我們要優化這個政策的話未來是一定會走這個政策的\n我們其實儘管會對於國際上的制度的演變我們都持續的關注當然只要有助於未來優化我們永續金融的發展以及未來ESG的這樣的促進我想剛剛委員提到很好我們會去參酌各國的做法再來看看我們接下來下一步可以怎麼來做\n王鴻薇議員\n但是在台灣我真的目前為止不管從行政院或者環境部或者經濟部或者是市經管會我到現在為止大家都是在各自做各自的每個都覺得說ESG好重要、ESG好重要評鑑確實很重要\n所以第一個就是未來的主管單位到底是誰主管機關到底是誰他也許用監管的他也許是用比較鬆散的我覺得這個應該也是盡快的做定論那另外一個部分我覺得這也並不是今晚會的責任但是我在這邊要提出來\n就是因為現在整個市場社會都覺得ESG很重要現在已經出現很多詐騙集團了啦我們有很多的小資族因為他希望趕上這班列車然後他們花了大錢對他們來講可能幾萬十萬二十萬三十萬對他們來講是大錢然後他們認為說我要希望拿到證照結果最後一堆人被騙了因為\n身上這個機構也不是一個正當的機構也沒有認證的機構他拿後來他花了大錢後來發現他只是一個上課證明根本不是任何的證照所以從高層的就是我們到底我們主管機關是誰我們評鑑制度可不可以信賴到下面我們很多的坊間這些所謂根本就在開補習班你開補習班就算了最後還變成詐騙集團\n所以我真的覺得當我們政府一再的宣傳我們很重視ESG的這個制度的建立我們要怎麼樣的去協助等等之類的但是呢不要變成詐騙集團的工具這一點非常的重要啦\n謝謝王鴻薇委員的質詢 接著我們請顏寬文委員質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.570 --> 00:25.326\n來 莊 部 長 請 來 莊 部 長 委 員 好 好 部 長 下 面 今 天 也 有 很 多 我 們 公 股 行 庫 的 董 事 長 和 總 經 理 在 今 年 的 3 月 底 由 國 發 會 、 經 濟 部 還 有 找 了 財 政 部 要 求 我 們 公 股 行 庫 要 參 與 我 們 整 個 的 離 岸 風 電 三 支 一 旗 的 連 帶 案\n\n00:26.991 --> 00:27.151\n王 鴻 薇 議 員\n\n00:48.456 --> 00:48.696\n王 鴻 薇 議 員\n\n01:07.731 --> 01:17.858\n其 實 第 一 個 是 讓 大 家 了 解 到 離 岸 豐 電 的 一 個 發 展 情 形 因 為 在 離 岸 豐 電 的 連 帶 案 我 要 知 道 進 度 對 不 起 因 為 我 時 間 關 係 我 要 知 道 到 目 前 為 止 進 度 如 何 目 前 為 止 還 是 銀 行 還 是 我 們 跟 銀 行 在 自 行 的 一 個 在 評 估 所 以 到 目 前 為 止 就 是 我 們 目 前 八 大 行 庫 還 沒 有 決 定 要 去 參 與 離 岸 豐 電 的 三 正 一 期 的 連 帶 案\n\n01:33.867 --> 01:49.972\n就 我 所 知 我 並 不 清 楚 我 可 能 要 看 看 行 庫 的 作 業 對 好 時 間 暫 停 一 下 那 麼 到 底 我 們 財 政 部 能 不 能 確 定 我 要 知 道 現 在 的 進 度 到 底 參 與 了 還 是 沒 有 參 與 還 是 站 在 評 估 中\n\n01:51.682 --> 01:58.107\n應 該 是 評 估 中 還 正 在 評 估 中 那 我 就 不 花 時 間 請 這 個 航 庫 的 董 事 長 總 經 理 上 來 說 明 了 我 覺 得 這 件 事 情 跟 我 們 其 實 長 期 以 來 包 含 我 們 今 天 的 討 論 內 容 也 是 一 樣 我 們 當 然 鼓 勵 我 們 的 航 庫 銀 行 能 夠 參 與 這 個 我 們 包 含 綠 電 包 含 E S G 的 相 關 的 這 些 資 金 的 融 資 但 是 呢\n\n02:18.584 --> 02:18.624\n王 鴻 薇 議 員\n\n02:36.235 --> 02:40.518\n他 們 現 在 開 出 說 一 度 店 6 塊 錢 你 這 個 價 格 是 連 台 積 電 都 買 不 下 手 的 因 為 台 積 電 說 6 塊 錢 他 們 是 買 不 了 的 所 以 如 果 連 台 積 電 都 不 能 買 那 未 來 他 的 買 主 在 哪 裡 所 以 他 的 財 務 報 告 要 怎 麼 樣 來 做 評 估 所 以 我 在 這 邊 要 特 別 講 的 是 新 政 府 上 台 以 後\n\n02:58.368 --> 03:21.628\n我 要 拜 託 的 是 不 要 再 像 舊 政 府 那 個 時 候 已 經 即 將 卸 任 但 是 呢 這 麼 重 要 一 個 連 帶 案 找 了 這 麼 多 的 行 庫 事 實 上 就 是 給 行 庫 施 壓 呀 所 以 我 要 講 的 就 是 請 尊 重 銀 行 的 他 的 一 個 風 險 的 評 估 權 好 不 好 所 以 我 希 望 財 政 部 在 這 個 部 分 也 能 夠 把 關 可 不 可 以\n\n03:22.660 --> 03:23.100\n有 請 彭 主 委\n\n03:43.766 --> 04:08.017\n委 員 好 部 長 跟 主 委 我 想 現 在 在 兩 部 之 間 我 們 事 實 上 非 常 關 心 的 就 是 我 們 當 沖 的 稅 率 是 不 是 要 繼 續 調 降 那 麼 要 調 降 的 話 要 調 降 多 久 那 麼 很 難 得 我 在 執 行 這 個 問 題 的 時 候 大 部 分 財 政 部 就 金 管 會 那 現 在 你 們 兩 大 巨 頭 都 在 這 裡\n\n04:09.281 --> 04:11.543\n有 關 於 當 沖 降 稅 的 常 態 化 我 想 請 問 一 下 我 們 的 莊 部 長 現 在 我 們 財 政 部 的 態 度 是 什 麼 還 是 認 為 常 態 化 不 可 行 還 是 說 你 們 要 有 所 讓 步 委 員 您 說 的 常 態 化 意 思 就 是 說 降 了 再 降 降 了 再 降 一 直 降 就 是 說 在 期 限 上 就 是 在 適 用 的 時 間 上 我 想 這 個 部 分 對 於 有 關 諸 會\n\n04:34.884 --> 04:36.005\n現 在 金 管 會 對 於 當 沖 稅 率 的 降 稅 現 在 又 提 出 要 再 延 長 5 年\n\n04:54.361 --> 05:18.739\n現 在 財 政 部 的 態 度 是 什 麼 對 於 金 管 會 的 一 個 建 議 意 見 他 們 其 實 在 年 初 的 時 候 就 有 到 財 政 部 那 對 於 有 關 當 沖 降 稅 這 個 事 情 社 會 各 界 都 有 不 同 的 意 見 有 贊 成 的 也 有 質 疑 的 那 對 於 各 界 的 意 見 我 們 都 收 集 以 後 我 們 對 於 有 關 質 疑 需 要 釐 清 的 部 分 也 再 請 金 管 會 這 個 部 分 再 做 一 些 評 估 以 及 給 我 們 一 個 更 詳 細 的 一 個 資 料\n\n05:20.961 --> 05:30.386\n部 長 跟 主 委 我 覺 得 這 件 事 情 因 為 顯 然 財 政 部 跟 金 管 會 各 自 站 在 自 己 部 會 不 同 的 立 場 到 目 前 為 止 還 沒 有 一 個 決 斷 那 麼 我 先 講 一 下 我 的 態 度 第 一 個 我 的 態 度 過 去 幾 次 在 我 們 的 參 會 我 講 得 非 常 清 楚 我 並 不 贊 成 當 沖 稅 還 要 繼 續 的 減 半 而 且 要 繼 續 延 長 五 年\n\n05:47.614 --> 05:51.097\n因 為 我 覺 得 從 2 0 1 7 年 開 始 一 再 的 延 長 而 當 時 所 要 達 成 的 一 些 效 果 事 實 上 都 已 經 看 到 了 我 覺 得 不 應 該 像 吃 馬 飛 一 樣 覺 得 要 一 吃 再 吃 這 樣 子 反 而 對 市 場 不 健 全\n\n06:03.388 --> 06:11.435\n不 然 的 話 你 們 就 回 去 好 好 的 討 論 如 果 你 覺 得 當 初 的 稅 率 不 應 該 就 是 應 該 減 半 你 就 是 永 久 性 的 減 半 而 不 是 一 再 的 延 長 我 覺 得 這 是 破 壞 了 整 個 的 這 個 稅 制 這 個 稅 制 的 穩 定 性 是 不 足 的 這 是 第 一 個 第 二 個 因 為 你 們 年 底 即 將 到 期 那 我 也 希 望 兩 個 部 會 能 夠 盡 快 的 做 決 定 因 為 任 何 一 個 市 場 都 是 這 樣 的\n\n06:32.412 --> 06:58.662\n他 的 不 穩 定 因 素 越 多 他 的 不 穩 定 因 素 越 久 對 於 市 場 至 少 在 短 期 上 他 的 效 應 也 是 不 夠 好 的 因 為 也 許 現 在 市 場 充 滿 一 片 的 樂 觀 因 為 認 為 今 晚 會 提 出 來 那 麼 現 在 新 政 府 應 該 不 怕 這 個 這 個 證 券 市 場 受 到 波 動 應 該 就 是 可 以 得 逞 可 是 我 覺 得 不 穩 定 的 因 素 應 該 盡 量 的 把 它 消 去 可 不 可 以\n\n06:59.774 --> 07:00.595\n六 月 底 可 不 可 以 ?\n\n07:21.408 --> 07:37.619\n這 個 部 分 因 為 也 涉 及 到 一 些 修 法 如 果 是 動 的 話 就 要 涉 及 到 法 律 的 一 些 修 正 這 個 部 分 我 想 應 該 還 要 一 定 的 程 序 好 所 以 到 現 在 都 不 願 意 去 承 諾 我 還 是 覺 得 你 們 能 夠 盡 快 的 把 它 做 一 個 了 斷 好 不 好 時 間 暫 停 一 下 請 部 長 先 請 回 好 那 個 主 委\n\n07:50.000 --> 08:06.774\n我 們 現 在 就 是 今 天 談 那 個 我 們 要 怎 麼 樣 導 入 E S G 那 我 也 看 了 你 們 的 報 告 那 所 以 呢 其 實 我 們 金 融 機 構 在 做 這 個 E S G 的 評 鑑 也 非 常 的 賣 力 不 過 呢 事 實 上 在 國 內 甚 至 在 國 際 間 對 於 E S G 評 鑑 的 準 則\n\n08:09.756 --> 08:25.093\n到 目 前 為 止 還 有 很 多 的 討 論 而 且 甚 至 呢 也 有 很 多 人 對 於 他 的 這 個 信 度 或 者 信 任 程 度 其 實 也 還 帶 很 多 的 驗 證 那 比 如 說 這 個 是 國 際 上 的 T h e R e u t e r s R e p o r t\n\n08:26.212 --> 08:43.361\n在 國 際 上 受 訪 者 對 E S G 評 比 的 信 任 程 度 事 實 上 是 下 降 的 那 因 為 其 實 這 個 評 比 很 多 但 是 呢 到 底 這 些 評 比 可 不 可 信 其 實 在 國 際 上 都 有 爭 議 好 我 們 現 在 看 到 就 是 說 在 這 個 國 際 間 E S G 的 評 比 機 構 的 監 管\n\n08:46.903 --> 09:00.338\n有 的 是 用 監 管 的 態 度 比 如 說 歐 盟 他 直 接 用 證 券 及 市 場 管 理 局 來 做 監 管 可 是 像 日 本 他 們 並 不 做 用 監 管 的 方 式 他 只 是 由 金 融 提 出 準 則 那 我 想 請 問 一 下 我 們 E S G 評 鑑\n\n09:04.755 --> 09:32.322\n現 在 市 場 的 評 鑑 也 很 多 但 是 呢 我 們 也 沒 有 什 麼 國 家 級 的 一 個 評 鑑 的 標 準 那 我 想 請 問 一 下 主 委 那 麼 未 來 E S G 的 評 鑑 我 們 金 管 會 願 意 當 扛 把 子 嗎 就 是 願 意 把 它 放 在 金 管 會 這 邊 不 管 是 提 出 準 則 也 好 或 者 是 你 們 來 做 監 管 也 好 金 管 會 有 這 樣 的 準 備 嗎\n\n09:33.919 --> 09:53.685\n我 想 報 告 委 員 我 們 現 階 段 先 是 由 剛 剛 跟 各 位 報 告 交 易 所 做 公 司 治 理 評 鑑 另 外 的 話 就 現 在 那 個 研 訓 院 他 們 在 做 那 個 永 續 金 融 評 鑑 我 們 是 按 部 就 班 那 當 然 就 是 未 來 假 設 這 個 政 策 是 一 個 要 達 成 我 們 要 優 化 這 個 政 策 的 話 未 來 是 一 定 會 走 這 個 政 策 的\n\n09:55.026 --> 10:11.998\n我 們 其 實 儘 管 會 對 於 國 際 上 的 制 度 的 演 變 我 們 都 持 續 的 關 注 當 然 只 要 有 助 於 未 來 優 化 我 們 永 續 金 融 的 發 展 以 及 未 來 E S G 的 這 樣 的 促 進 我 想 剛 剛 委 員 提 到 很 好 我 們 會 去 參 酌 各 國 的 做 法 再 來 看 看 我 們 接 下 來 下 一 步 可 以 怎 麼 來 做\n\n10:13.018 --> 10:13.158\n王 鴻 薇 議 員\n\n10:31.098 --> 10:46.749\n但 是 在 台 灣 我 真 的 目 前 為 止 不 管 從 行 政 院 或 者 環 境 部 或 者 經 濟 部 或 者 是 市 經 管 會 我 到 現 在 為 止 大 家 都 是 在 各 自 做 各 自 的 每 個 都 覺 得 說 E S G 好 重 要 、 E S G 好 重 要 評 鑑 確 實 很 重 要\n\n10:48.931 --> 10:57.041\n所 以 第 一 個 就 是 未 來 的 主 管 單 位 到 底 是 誰 主 管 機 關 到 底 是 誰 他 也 許 用 監 管 的 他 也 許 是 用 比 較 鬆 散 的 我 覺 得 這 個 應 該 也 是 盡 快 的 做 定 論 那 另 外 一 個 部 分 我 覺 得 這 也 並 不 是 今 晚 會 的 責 任 但 是 我 在 這 邊 要 提 出 來\n\n11:07.054 --> 11:13.198\n就 是 因 為 現 在 整 個 市 場 社 會 都 覺 得 E S G 很 重 要 現 在 已 經 出 現 很 多 詐 騙 集 團 了 啦 我 們 有 很 多 的 小 資 族 因 為 他 希 望 趕 上 這 班 列 車 然 後 他 們 花 了 大 錢 對 他 們 來 講 可 能 幾 萬 十 萬 二 十 萬 三 十 萬 對 他 們 來 講 是 大 錢 然 後 他 們 認 為 說 我 要 希 望 拿 到 證 照 結 果 最 後 一 堆 人 被 騙 了 因 為\n\n11:32.370 --> 11:57.190\n身 上 這 個 機 構 也 不 是 一 個 正 當 的 機 構 也 沒 有 認 證 的 機 構 他 拿 後 來 他 花 了 大 錢 後 來 發 現 他 只 是 一 個 上 課 證 明 根 本 不 是 任 何 的 證 照 所 以 從 高 層 的 就 是 我 們 到 底 我 們 主 管 機 關 是 誰 我 們 評 鑑 制 度 可 不 可 以 信 賴 到 下 面 我 們 很 多 的 坊 間 這 些 所 謂 根 本 就 在 開 補 習 班 你 開 補 習 班 就 算 了 最 後 還 變 成 詐 騙 集 團\n\n11:58.911 --> 12:14.353\n所 以 我 真 的 覺 得 當 我 們 政 府 一 再 的 宣 傳 我 們 很 重 視 E S G 的 這 個 制 度 的 建 立 我 們 要 怎 麼 樣 的 去 協 助 等 等 之 類 的 但 是 呢 不 要 變 成 詐 騙 集 團 的 工 具 這 一 點 非 常 的 重 要 啦\n\n12:14.793 --> 12:16.154\n謝 謝 王 鴻 薇 委 員 的 質 詢 接 著 我 們 請 顏 寬 文 委 員 質 詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.57,"end":25.326,"text":"來 莊部長請來 莊部長委員好好部長 下面今天也有很多我們公股行庫的董事長和總經理在今年的3月底由國發會、經濟部還有找了財政部要求我們公股行庫要參與我們整個的離岸風電三支一旗的連帶案"},{"start":26.991,"end":27.151,"text":"王鴻薇議員"},{"start":48.456,"end":48.696,"text":"王鴻薇議員"},{"start":67.731,"end":77.858,"text":"其實第一個是讓大家了解到離岸豐電的一個發展情形因為在離岸豐電的連帶案我要知道進度對不起因為我時間關係我要知道到目前為止進度如何目前為止還是銀行還是我們跟銀行在自行的一個在評估所以到目前為止就是我們目前八大行庫還沒有決定要去參與離岸豐電的三正一期的連帶案"},{"start":93.867,"end":109.972,"text":"就我所知我並不清楚我可能要看看行庫的作業對好時間暫停一下那麼到底我們財政部能不能確定我要知道現在的進度到底參與了還是沒有參與還是站在評估中"},{"start":111.682,"end":118.107,"text":"應該是評估中還正在評估中那我就不花時間請這個航庫的董事長總經理上來說明了我覺得這件事情跟我們其實長期以來包含我們今天的討論內容也是一樣我們當然鼓勵我們的航庫銀行能夠參與這個我們包含綠電包含ESG的相關的這些資金的融資但是呢"},{"start":138.584,"end":138.624,"text":"王鴻薇議員"},{"start":156.235,"end":160.518,"text":"他們現在開出說一度店6塊錢你這個價格是連台積電都買不下手的因為台積電說6塊錢他們是買不了的所以如果連台積電都不能買那未來他的買主在哪裡所以他的財務報告要怎麼樣來做評估所以我在這邊要特別講的是新政府上台以後"},{"start":178.368,"end":201.628,"text":"我要拜託的是不要再像舊政府那個時候已經即將卸任但是呢這麼重要一個連帶案找了這麼多的行庫事實上就是給行庫施壓呀所以我要講的就是請尊重銀行的他的一個風險的評估權好不好所以我希望財政部在這個部分也能夠把關可不可以"},{"start":202.66,"end":203.1,"text":"有請彭主委"},{"start":223.766,"end":248.017,"text":"委員好部長跟主委我想現在在兩部之間我們事實上非常關心的就是我們當沖的稅率是不是要繼續調降那麼要調降的話要調降多久那麼很難得我在執行這個問題的時候大部分財政部就金管會那現在你們兩大巨頭都在這裡"},{"start":249.281,"end":251.543,"text":"有關於當沖降稅的常態化我想請問一下我們的莊部長現在我們財政部的態度是什麼還是認為常態化不可行還是說你們要有所讓步委員您說的常態化意思就是說降了再降降了再降一直降就是說在期限上就是在適用的時間上我想這個部分對於有關諸會"},{"start":274.884,"end":276.005,"text":"現在金管會對於當沖稅率的降稅現在又提出要再延長5年"},{"start":294.361,"end":318.739,"text":"現在財政部的態度是什麼對於金管會的一個建議意見他們其實在年初的時候就有到財政部那對於有關當沖降稅這個事情社會各界都有不同的意見有贊成的也有質疑的那對於各界的意見我們都收集以後我們對於有關質疑需要釐清的部分也再請金管會這個部分再做一些評估以及給我們一個更詳細的一個資料"},{"start":320.961,"end":330.386,"text":"部長跟主委我覺得這件事情因為顯然財政部跟金管會各自站在自己部會不同的立場到目前為止還沒有一個決斷那麼我先講一下我的態度第一個我的態度過去幾次在我們的參會我講得非常清楚我並不贊成當沖稅還要繼續的減半而且要繼續延長五年"},{"start":347.614,"end":351.097,"text":"因為我覺得從2017年開始一再的延長而當時所要達成的一些效果事實上都已經看到了我覺得不應該像吃馬飛一樣覺得要一吃再吃這樣子反而對市場不健全"},{"start":363.388,"end":371.435,"text":"不然的話你們就回去好好的討論如果你覺得當初的稅率不應該就是應該減半你就是永久性的減半而不是一再的延長我覺得這是破壞了整個的這個稅制這個稅制的穩定性是不足的這是第一個第二個因為你們年底即將到期那我也希望兩個部會能夠盡快的做決定因為任何一個市場都是這樣的"},{"start":392.412,"end":418.662,"text":"他的不穩定因素越多他的不穩定因素越久對於市場至少在短期上他的效應也是不夠好的因為也許現在市場充滿一片的樂觀因為認為今晚會提出來那麼現在新政府應該不怕這個這個證券市場受到波動應該就是可以得逞可是我覺得不穩定的因素應該盡量的把它消去可不可以"},{"start":419.774,"end":420.595,"text":"六月底可不可以?"},{"start":441.408,"end":457.619,"text":"這個部分因為也涉及到一些修法如果是動的話就要涉及到法律的一些修正這個部分我想應該還要一定的程序好 所以到現在都不願意去承諾我還是覺得你們能夠盡快的把它做一個了斷好不好時間暫停一下 請部長先請回好 那個 主委"},{"start":470,"end":486.774,"text":"我們現在就是今天談那個我們要怎麼樣導入ESG那我也看了你們的報告那所以呢其實我們金融機構在做這個ESG的評鑑也非常的賣力不過呢事實上在國內甚至在國際間對於ESG評鑑的準則"},{"start":489.756,"end":505.093,"text":"到目前為止還有很多的討論而且甚至呢也有很多人對於他的這個信度或者信任程度其實也還帶很多的驗證那比如說這個是國際上的The Reuters Report"},{"start":506.212,"end":523.361,"text":"在國際上受訪者對ESG評比的信任程度事實上是下降的那因為其實這個評比很多但是呢到底這些評比可不可信其實在國際上都有爭議好我們現在看到就是說在這個國際間ESG的評比機構的監管"},{"start":526.903,"end":540.338,"text":"有的是用監管的態度比如說歐盟他直接用證券及市場管理局來做監管可是像日本他們並不做用監管的方式他只是由金融提出準則那我想請問一下我們ESG評鑑"},{"start":544.755,"end":572.322,"text":"現在市場的評鑑也很多但是呢我們也沒有什麼國家級的一個評鑑的標準那我想請問一下主委那麼未來ESG的評鑑我們金管會願意當扛把子嗎就是願意把它放在金管會這邊不管是提出準則也好或者是你們來做監管也好金管會有這樣的準備嗎"},{"start":573.919,"end":593.685,"text":"我想報告委員我們現階段先是由剛剛跟各位報告交易所做公司治理評鑑另外的話就現在那個研訓院他們在做那個永續金融評鑑我們是按部就班那當然就是未來假設這個政策是一個要達成我們要優化這個政策的話未來是一定會走這個政策的"},{"start":595.026,"end":611.998,"text":"我們其實儘管會對於國際上的制度的演變我們都持續的關注當然只要有助於未來優化我們永續金融的發展以及未來ESG的這樣的促進我想剛剛委員提到很好我們會去參酌各國的做法再來看看我們接下來下一步可以怎麼來做"},{"start":613.018,"end":613.158,"text":"王鴻薇議員"},{"start":631.098,"end":646.749,"text":"但是在台灣我真的目前為止不管從行政院或者環境部或者經濟部或者是市經管會我到現在為止大家都是在各自做各自的每個都覺得說ESG好重要、ESG好重要評鑑確實很重要"},{"start":648.931,"end":657.041,"text":"所以第一個就是未來的主管單位到底是誰主管機關到底是誰他也許用監管的他也許是用比較鬆散的我覺得這個應該也是盡快的做定論那另外一個部分我覺得這也並不是今晚會的責任但是我在這邊要提出來"},{"start":667.054,"end":673.198,"text":"就是因為現在整個市場社會都覺得ESG很重要現在已經出現很多詐騙集團了啦我們有很多的小資族因為他希望趕上這班列車然後他們花了大錢對他們來講可能幾萬十萬二十萬三十萬對他們來講是大錢然後他們認為說我要希望拿到證照結果最後一堆人被騙了因為"},{"start":692.37,"end":717.19,"text":"身上這個機構也不是一個正當的機構也沒有認證的機構他拿後來他花了大錢後來發現他只是一個上課證明根本不是任何的證照所以從高層的就是我們到底我們主管機關是誰我們評鑑制度可不可以信賴到下面我們很多的坊間這些所謂根本就在開補習班你開補習班就算了最後還變成詐騙集團"},{"start":718.911,"end":734.353,"text":"所以我真的覺得當我們政府一再的宣傳我們很重視ESG的這個制度的建立我們要怎麼樣的去協助等等之類的但是呢不要變成詐騙集團的工具這一點非常的重要啦"},{"start":734.793,"end":736.154,"text":"謝謝王鴻薇委員的質詢 接著我們請顏寬文委員質詢"}]}}}}