{"id":153376,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153376","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/bbbc431469b8aebaea6bffbb89ae7a424622ddde1e3527b9446d6a815e913744f7737f26cfe0d6d65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃珊珊","委員發言時間":"11:03:53 - 11:14:31","影片長度":"00:10:38","會議時間":"2024-05-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請財政部莊部長翠雲、金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆率所屬相關單位就「如何精進ESG制度評鑑、永續報告書及公司治理評鑑制度，並導引金融機構落實放貸及貸後管理工作」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-30","start_time":"2024-05-30T11:03:53+08:00","end_time":"2024-05-30T11:14:31+08:00","duration":638,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-15"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":623,"blocks":[["黃委員珊珊：（11時3分）謝謝主席，我想還是請部長跟主委。"],["主席：有請莊部長、有請彭主委。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好。"],["黃委員珊珊：兩位好，首先恭喜兩位繼續跟行政團隊一起打拼，現在重點是很多委員今天所提出來的問題，在這邊我再請莊部長回復一下。有關財劃法現在正在財委會即將審查，所以財政部的立場會不會提出行政院的版本？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，目前並沒有行政院的版本，因為我們還在進行有關各地方政府……"],["黃委員珊珊：你們還在徵詢嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：對於分配指標，我們必須要有一個共識。"],["黃委員珊珊：好，所以我只有一個要求，因為委員會已經要開始初審了，我們昨天已經要求主計總處新的主計長，希望能在委員會審查的同時請財政部也配合一件事情，就是先以111年的預算、決算來做一個試算，目前財政委員會裡面的16個版本，每一個版本的公式可能影響的內容跟金額，請你們做一個試算、做一個模組出來，在委員會審查的時候讓我們各個委員都可以看到，假如用A版本會變成什麼樣、B版本會怎麼樣、影響到多少，我想在財政部也配合處理的情況下，大家可以看到比較完整的輪廓。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，我知道委員您的意思，但是在試算的時候，我們可以用某一年的一個實徵數來算，對不對？"],["黃委員珊珊：對。"],["莊部長翠雲：所以我們有算出來各個版本，中央要……"],["黃委員珊珊：你們大概有算出來了嘛？"],["莊部長翠雲：那個有數字，但是在分配的部分，因為版本裡面的相關指標並不具體，在不具體的情況下，計算上就是……"],["黃委員珊珊：沒關係，你先針對各版本，尤其是像營業稅要多少留在地方，這些東西先精算出來。"],["莊部長翠雲：那個有計算出來，就各個版本，中央釋出……"],["黃委員珊珊：這部分就麻煩你也提供給本席。"],["莊部長翠雲：可以、可以。"],["黃委員珊珊：我想這是將來在審查的時候，部長你也必須要回應的東西。"],["莊部長翠雲：但是在分配的部分，事實上橫向分配一直不夠具體。"],["黃委員珊珊：可能各個指標……沒關係，那就是要討論的內容嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：是，謝謝委員。"],["黃委員珊珊：第二個部分，那天主委剛上任，我就問過主委一件事，今天要同時問一下部長，財政部其實在111年，大家都在討論現在很有名的叫做網紅，然後網紅要不要課稅、課稅的模式，所以你們做了一個研究報告「網紅獲利模式與研訂綜合所得稅課稅規範之探討」，這個報告在112年4月就已經出爐，現在這個報告的建議事項是要提供一個所謂的網紅課稅須知或問答集的Q&A，但是我還沒有看到財政部的問答集、也沒有看到Q&A、也沒有看到課稅規範，而我們先看到金管會針對網紅做了一個非常可愛的定義。","主委，那天問你，你說你不知道什麼是網紅，現在你知道了嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：現在……"],["黃委員珊珊：金管會的網紅定義？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我大概知道，但我現在記不得。"],["黃委員珊珊：時間暫停，我們請同仁。知道了！我們金管會是因為太多的投信投顧業應該要取得執照才可以做相關的解析，但是現在的每一個網紅都是投資專家，每一個都在他的社群網站上面告訴大家哪個股票很棒、什麼事情很好，所以投信投顧業訂了一個網紅的定義，你們找不到，是嗎？我唸給你聽好了，「常態性於網路（包括但不限社群媒體、影音平台及線上媒體）發表資訊內容供大眾閱覽，並以此營利者。」也就是他以營利為目標，請問莊部長，你們的網紅定義出來了嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：第一個，我們沒有所謂的網紅，也就是你在網路上促銷貨物或……"],["黃委員珊珊：你們出了那個報告、研究了半天，所以沒有網紅這個定義？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們重點是在於你透過網路去直銷貨物或勞務，有所得要怎麼課稅，關於這個課稅，剛剛委員也講得很清楚，我們在訂相關的規範，這個規範有大概的原則，細節的部分我們還要訂得更詳細，未來會讓它非常的詳細。"],["黃委員珊珊：我的意思是說，我希望網紅不是一個單位自己所片面定義。第二個，你們將來可能會針對這部分有課稅規範。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["黃委員珊珊：現在投信投顧本身有做一個相關的規定，我今天要跟部長、主委說的是投信投顧最多的問題其實不是網紅，現在最多代言人的部分叫做虛擬資產，虛擬資產運用各種不同的網紅在網路上不斷宣傳，因為虛擬資產沒有管理辦法，所以幫它代言更沒有管理規範，如果我們真的要規範，不是只有規範投信投顧，接下去的虛擬資產有一堆網紅在做代言，目前虛擬資產又沒有指導原則，基本上叫做無法可管。我今天要說的就是剛剛部長說的，我們要有課稅原則，但是金管會針對你們所定的投信投顧還有接下去的虛擬資產，我覺得要一起納入管理，也就是你們兩邊的定義可能要討論一下，而不是片面一個單位來做認定，兩位同意嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：稅的部分剛剛提過，就他在網路銷售……"],["黃委員珊珊：他的定義跟你的定義還是要有一定的討論啦！"],["莊部長翠雲：至於他叫做網紅，那就是大家普通的通稱。"],["黃委員珊珊：因為不知道什麼是網紅啊！我看你們的報告寫你們要去討論網紅的獲利模式，所以現在又不是網紅？只要網路通過的，你們就來討論。"],["莊部長翠雲：就是……定義網紅。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以部長你要在麥克風前面講。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，就是說委託研究那個是一個名稱，但是事實上在這裡面，我們未來課稅沒有所謂的網紅，就是你透過網路去銷售貨物或勞務，依照現行的法規該要課什麼稅，我們去做規範。"],["黃委員珊珊：我今天質詢的目的就是希望它的定義清楚，目標明確。第二個，該納管的要納管，而不是只有投信投顧在納管，虛擬資產完全沒人管。主委，你瞭解我的意思。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，剛剛委員提到，我們現在虛擬資產是有指引，就是……"],["黃委員珊珊：只有一個……"],["彭主任委員金隆：對。"],["黃委員珊珊：只有一個指引，但是沒有任何管理辦法，所以即使是幫他代言……"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，現在還在研議。"],["黃委員珊珊：他如果有做……因為現在這樣的狀況跟詐騙其實是有連結的，我們希望要納管就認真的納管，而不是掛一漏萬。","另外一個問題就是，上一次我質詢過部長，新青安貸款當然是我們新的政策，對於居住正義有很大的幫助，那新青安貸款我們上次也問過了，問了一些問題，今天主委來，我們就來一起再問一次，因為新青安貸款有一個很要重要的要求，是要求自住，所以自住就不可以租出去，在授信的過程中，我上次問了部長是說現在銀行都會要求徵信，也會去看現場，但是事實上有沒有做到實質的徵信，今天應該是各行庫的董事長都到現場了吧！我想問一下，各位銀行，你們對於新青安貸款有自住稽查事實行為的部分，請舉手。有去看現場，好，大部分都有，公股都很好。第二個，如果他沒有自住的話，部裡面、銀行應該怎麼處理？金管會？兩位？"],["莊部長翠雲：我想跟委員報告，新青安貸款如您剛剛說它有好的政策意義，但是不能被人濫用，拿去做所謂的投機，這是最重要的一點。"],["黃委員珊珊：是，他變成人頭，他變成拿出去轉租。"],["莊部長翠雲：對，這是不可以的，所以這個部分，我們第一個要請公股行庫對於用青安貸款貸出去的對象，可能要去分析一下他真正的情況，事後……"],["黃委員珊珊：搞不好跟你申請了，還跟內政部申請了租金補貼或者是貸款補貼。"],["莊部長翠雲：對，所以我們會用相關的資料來做勾稽，這個部分我們後續會來做。"],["黃委員珊珊：好，一樣的，我們希望這些給年輕人的善意政策，不要讓年輕人成為炒房的工具，甚至用納稅人的錢去做了這些補貼，最後變成這些包租公……"],["莊部長翠雲：是，這不應該的。"],["黃委員珊珊：拿來用他們人頭來去賺錢，而且最重要是新青安貸款的確現在是市場的主流，我們也不希望它成為炒房的工具，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：是的。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以接下去目前為止，我們的公股行庫應該都有做稽查，但是一樣，事後要做勾稽。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["黃委員珊珊：最後就是我希望今天兩位在現場，剛剛我講的網紅問題，可能是現在市場上面普遍民眾因為對於相關的資訊不是很完整，所以他會受到網紅的影響，而且影響力很大，這個影響力連金管會投信投顧這邊都要非常的謹慎。同樣的，虛擬資產包括財政部，我也希望你們擬出來，以後類似的人，不管他是哪個行業，都應該是一視同仁，而且該怎麼做就怎麼做，所以主委你不能只管投信投顧，你可能要連虛擬資產的網紅要一起納管，如果要納管，可能就要全面性的納管，兩位可以嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這裡的話，我們正在針對虛擬資產有一個步驟會開始朝向專法研議，再來看要不要成立專法，剛剛委員指正的部分，我們會納入考量。"],["黃委員珊珊：主委，研議要快一點，因為虛擬資產已經是一個成熟的市場，如果我們還在研議的話，又不知道要等多久，所以可能希望速度快一點，您上任，我們希望短時間之內可以看到相關的計畫，就網紅的部分，我希望兩週內先給我一份你們初步的規劃，好嗎？謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃珊珊委員的質詢。","接著我們請伍麗華委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":274,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-15","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","王鴻薇","顏寬恒","賴惠員","李坤城","李彥秀","黃珊珊","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王世堅","羅明才","陳玉珍","黃國昌","鍾佳濱","林楚茵","邱志偉","張智倫","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘"],"page_start":209,"meetingDate":["2024-05-30"],"gazette_id":"1135401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135401_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請財政部莊部長翠雲、金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆率所屬相關單位就「如何精進 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版 本 因 為 我 們 還 在 進 行 有 關 各 地 方 政 府 對 於 這 個 分 配 指 標 的 一 個 我 們 必 須 要 有 一 個 共 識 所 以 我 只 有 一 個 要 求 因 為 委 員 會 已 經 要 開 始 出 審 了 那 我 們 昨 天 已 經 跟 要 求 主 計 處 的 新 的 主 計 長\n\n3\n00:00:53,857 --> 00:01:20,743\n希 望 能 夠 在 委 員 會 審 查 的 同 時 請 財 政 部 也 配 合 一 件 事 情 就 是 先 以 1 1 1 年 的 預 算 決 算 來 做 一 個 在 目 前 財 務 委 員 會 裡 面 的 1 6 個 版 本 每 一 個 版 本 的 公 式 可 能 影 響 的 內 容 跟 金 額 請 你 們 做 一 個 試 算 做 一 個 模 組 出 來 讓 我 們 大 家 在 委 員 會 審 查 的 時 候 各 個 委 員 都 可 以 看 到 假 如\n\n4\n00:01:21,543 --> 00:01:43,629\n用 A 版 本 會 變 成 什 麼 樣 ? B 版 本 會 怎 麼 樣 ? 會 影 響 到 多 少 ? 我 想 這 個 可 能 在 財 政 部 也 配 合 處 理 的 情 況 下 , 大 家 可 以 看 到 比 較 完 整 的 輪 廓 。 是 , 我 知 道 委 員 您 的 意 思 , 但 是 我 們 在 試 算 的 時 候 , 我 們 可 以 用 某 一 年 的 一 個 時 增 數 來 算 , 對 不 對 ? 那 所 以 我 們 有 算 出 來 各 個 版 本 , 中 央 要 試 數 , 再 加 試 數 , 那 個 是 有 數 字 。\n\n5\n00:01:45,049 --> 00:02:12,269\n但 是 在 分 配 的 部 分 因 為 版 本 裡 面 的 相 關 指 標 並 不 具 體 不 具 體 的 情 況 下 你 在 計 算 上 就 是 你 先 把 可 能 各 版 本 尤 其 是 像 營 業 稅 要 多 少 留 在 地 方 這 些 東 西 可 能 先 計 算 出 來 那 個 有 計 算 出 來 就 各 個 版 本 這 個 部 分 就 麻 煩 你 也 提 供 給 本 席 我 想 這 個 也 是 將 來 在 審 查 的 時 候 部 長 你 也 必 須 要 回 應 的 東 西 但 是 在 分 配 的 部 分 事 實 上 橫 向 分 配 可 能 各 個 指 標 沒 關 係 那 個 就 是 要 討 論 的 內 容\n\n6\n00:02:13,550 --> 00:02:37,167\n好 第 二 個 部 分 就 是 那 天 主 委 剛 上 任 我 就 問 過 主 委 一 件 事 大 家 今 天 要 同 時 問 一 下 部 長 財 政 部 其 實 在 1 1 1 年 大 家 在 討 論 說 現 在 的 很 有 名 的 叫 做 網 紅 然 後 網 紅 要 不 要 科 稅 科 稅 的 模 式 所 以 你 們 去 做 了 一 個 研 究 報 告 網 紅 獲 利 模 式 跟 嚴 定 中 所 稅 的 課 稅 規 範 這 個 報 告 在 1 1 2 年 4 月 就 已 經 出 爐 了\n\n7\n00:02:41,030 --> 00:03:05,467\n那 現 在 希 望 這 個 報 告 的 建 議 事 項 是 要 提 供 一 個 所 謂 嚴 體 網 紅 科 稅 須 知 或 問 答 集 的 Q A 但 是 我 還 沒 有 看 到 財 政 部 的 問 答 集 也 沒 有 看 到 Q A 也 沒 有 看 到 科 稅 規 範 我 們 先 看 到 了 金 管 會 針 對 網 紅 做 了 一 個 非 常 有 可 愛 的 定 義 來 主 委 你 現 在 那 天 問 你 你 說 你 不 知 道 什 麼 是 網 紅 現 在 你 知 道 了 嗎\n\n8\n00:03:07,970 --> 00:03:09,672\n就 是 金 管 會 的 網 紅 定 義\n\n9\n00:03:21,141 --> 00:03:45,073\n知 道 了 我 們 金 管 會 是 因 為 太 多 的 投 信 投 顧 業 他 應 該 要 取 得 執 照 才 可 以 做 相 關 的 所 謂 的 解 析 但 是 我 們 現 在 的 網 紅 每 個 都 是 投 資 專 家 每 一 個 都 在 他 的 社 群 網 站 上 面 可 以 告 訴 大 家 哪 個 股 票 很 棒 哪 個 什 麼 事 情 很 好 所 以 投 信 投 顧 業 他 定 了 一 個 定 義 網 紅 你 們 找 不 到 是 嗎 那 我 唸 給 你 聽 好 了\n\n10\n00:03:46,133 --> 00:03:57,763\n常 態 性 與 網 路 ． 包 括 但 不 限 社 群 媒 體 ． 影 音 平 台 或 線 上 媒 體 ． 發 表 資 訊 內 容 供 大 眾 閱 覽 ． 並 以 此 引 力 者 也 就 是 他 引 力 為 目 標 所 以\n\n11\n00:03:58,834 --> 00:04:26,248\n那 請 問 莊 部 長 你 們 的 網 紅 定 義 出 來 了 嗎 ? 基 本 我 們 沒 有 所 謂 的 網 紅 也 就 是 說 你 在 網 路 上 實 銷 貨 物 所 以 沒 有 網 紅 這 個 定 義 我 們 重 點 是 在 於 你 透 過 網 路 去 直 銷 貨 物 或 勞 務 你 有 所 得 要 怎 麼 課 稅 那 這 個 課 稅 我 們 現 在 命 在 剛 剛 委 員 很 清 楚 我 們 在 訂 相 關 的 規 範 那 這 規 範 大 概 原 則 有 了 那 細 節 的 部 分 我 們 還 進 行 要 訂 的 更 詳 細 那 未 來 會 讓 他 非 常 的 詳 細 的\n\n12\n00:04:27,048 --> 00:04:27,268\n黃 珊 珊\n\n13\n00:04:46,141 --> 00:05:07,899\n投 信 投 顧 其 實 不 是 最 多 網 紅 的 問 題 其 實 現 在 最 多 的 部 分 代 言 的 人 叫 做 虛 擬 資 產 虛 擬 資 產 運 用 各 種 不 同 的 網 紅 在 網 路 上 面 不 斷 的 宣 傳 因 為 虛 擬 資 產 沒 有 管 理 辦 法 所 以 幫 他 代 言 更 沒 有 管 理 規 範 如 果 我 們 真 的 要 規 範 不 是 只 有 規 範 投 信 投 顧\n\n14\n00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:23,126\n接 下 去 的 虛 擬 資 產 現 在 有 一 堆 網 紅 在 做 代 言 目 前 虛 擬 資 產 又 沒 有 知 道 原 則 所 以 基 本 叫 做 無 法 可 管 所 以 我 今 天 要 說 的 是 就 剛 剛 主 委 說 的 我 們 要 課 稅 原 則\n\n15\n00:05:24,821 --> 00:05:25,281\n也 不 知 道 什 麼 是 網 紅 啊\n\n16\n00:05:54,540 --> 00:06:06,695\n因 為 你 們 的 報 告 我 看 到 的 是 你 們 就 是 要 去 討 論 網 紅 獲 利 模 式 所 以 現 在 又 不 是 網 紅 只 要 網 路 通 過 的 你 們 就 來 討 論 所 以 部 長 你 可 能 要 在 麥 克 風 前 面 講\n\n17\n00:06:10,940 --> 00:06:29,879\n委 託 研 究 那 個 是 一 個 名 稱 但 是 事 實 上 在 這 裡 面 我 們 未 來 課 稅 沒 有 所 謂 的 網 紅 就 是 你 透 過 網 路 去 銷 售 貨 物 老 屋 依 照 現 行 的 法 規 要 課 什 麼 稅 我 今 天 指 的 目 的 就 是 希 望 它 的 定 義 清 楚 目 標 明 確 第 二 個 該 納 管 的 要 納 管 而 不 是 只 有 投 信 投 顧 在 納 管 虛 擬 資 產 完 全 沒 人 管\n\n18\n00:06:30,840 --> 00:06:42,904\n主 委 你 了 解 我 的 意 思 剛 剛 委 員 提 到 我 們 現 在 虛 擬 資 產 是 有 那 個 指 引 只 有 一 個 指 引 但 是 沒 有 任 何 管 理 辦 法 所 以 即 使 是 幫 他 代 言 因 為 現 在 這 樣 的 狀 況 跟 詐 騙 其 實 是 有 連 結 的\n\n19\n00:06:48,726 --> 00:07:17,385\n我 們 希 望 要 納 管 就 認 真 的 納 管 而 不 是 掛 一 漏 萬 好 另 外 一 個 問 題 就 是 上 一 次 我 有 質 詢 郭 部 長 新 清 安 貸 款 當 然 是 我 們 新 的 政 策 對 於 居 住 正 義 很 大 的 幫 助 那 新 清 安 貸 款 我 們 上 次 也 問 過 了 問 了 一 些 問 題 今 天 主 委 新 來 我 們 就 來 一 起 再 問 一 次 因 為 新 清 安 貸 款 它 有 一 個 很 重 要 的 要 求 要 求 自 住 所 以 自 住 裡 面 它 就 不 可 以 所 謂 的 租 出 去\n\n20\n00:07:18,166 --> 00:07:18,306\n黃 珊 珊\n\n21\n00:07:35,675 --> 00:07:58,871\n都 到 現 場 了 吧 我 想 問 一 下 各 位 銀 行 你 們 對 於 新 清 安 貸 款 有 自 助 的 稽 查 事 實 行 為 的 部 分 請 舉 手 有 去 現 場 看 現 場 好 大 部 分 都 有 工 股 都 很 好 那 第 二 個 如 果 他 沒 有 自 助 的 話 部 裡 面 銀 行 應 該 怎 麼 處 理 金 管 會 兩 位\n\n22\n00:08:02,951 --> 00:08:30,236\n跟 委 員 報 告 新 清 安 貸 款 如 您 剛 剛 說 它 有 好 的 一 個 政 策 意 義 但 是 不 只 被 人 濫 用 拿 去 做 所 謂 的 投 機 這 是 最 重 要 的 一 點 它 變 成 人 頭 它 變 成 拿 出 去 轉 租 對 這 是 不 可 以 的 那 所 以 這 個 部 分 呢 我 們 第 一 個 要 請 公 股 航 庫 對 於 我 們 用 清 安 貸 款 貸 出 去 的 這 個 對 象 我 們 可 能 要 去 分 析 一 下 它 真 正 搞 不 好 還 跟 你 申 請 了 還 跟 內 政 部 申 請 了 租 金 補 貼 或 者 是 貸 款 補 貼\n\n23\n00:08:32,097 --> 00:08:35,360\n我 們 希 望 這 些 給 年 輕 人 的 善 意 的 政 策 不 要 讓 年 輕 人 成 為 炒 房 的 工 具 甚 至 用 納 稅 的 錢 去 做 了 這 些 補 貼 最 後 變 成 這 些 包 租 工\n\n24\n00:08:51,358 --> 00:09:13,495\n黃 珊 珊 拿 來 用 他 們 人 頭 來 去 賺 錢 而 且 最 重 要 是 新 簽 案 貸 款 的 確 是 現 在 是 市 場 的 儲 留 我 們 也 不 希 望 它 成 為 炒 房 的 工 具 所 以 接 下 來 去 目 前 為 止 我 們 的 公 股 航 空 應 該 都 有 做 稽 查 但 是 一 樣 事 後 要 做 勾 機 那 最 後 就 是 我 希 望 今 天 兩 位 在 現 場 剛 剛 我 講 的 這 個 網 紅 的 問 題 可 能 是 現 在 市 場 上 面 普 遍\n\n25\n00:09:19,434 --> 00:09:34,249\n民 眾 因 為 沒 有 對 於 相 關 的 資 訊 不 是 很 完 整 所 以 他 會 受 到 網 紅 的 影 響 而 且 影 響 力 很 大 這 個 影 響 力 連 金 管 會 信 投 顧 這 邊 都 非 常 的 謹 慎 同 樣 的 虛 擬 資 產 我 希 望 包 括\n\n26\n00:09:35,974 --> 00:09:52,817\n財 政 部 我 也 希 望 你 們 擬 出 來 以 後 類 似 的 人 不 管 他 是 哪 個 行 業 都 應 該 是 一 視 同 仁 而 且 該 怎 麼 做 就 怎 麼 做 所 以 主 委 你 不 能 只 管 投 信 投 顧 啊 你 可 能 要 連 虛 擬 資 產 的 網 紅 要 一 起 納 管 如 果 要 納 管 我 們 可 能 就 要 全 面 性 的 納 管 兩 位 可 以 嗎\n\n27\n00:09:53,547 --> 00:09:56,229\n所 以 主 委 研 議 要 快 一 點 因 為 虛 擬 資 產 已 經 是 一 個 成 熟 的 市 場 了\n\n28\n00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:12,820\n黃 珊 珊 委 員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n325\t26340\t有請莊部長有請彭主委委員好我想首先恭喜兩位繼續跟行政團隊一起打拼那現在重點就是我想很多的委員間所提出來的問題在這邊我再請莊部長回覆一下有關財化法現在正在財委會即將審查所以\n30010\t52577\t財政部的立場會不會提出行政院的版本跟委員報告目前並沒有行政院的版本因為我們還在進行有關各地方政府對於這個分配指標的一個我們必須要有一個共識所以我只有一個要求因為委員會已經要開始出審了那我們昨天已經跟要求主計處的新的主計長\n53857\t80743\t希望能夠在委員會審查的同時請財政部也配合一件事情就是先以111年的預算決算來做一個在目前財務委員會裡面的16個版本每一個版本的公式可能影響的內容跟金額請你們做一個試算做一個模組出來讓我們大家在委員會審查的時候各個委員都可以看到假如\n81543\t103629\t用A版本會變成什麼樣?B版本會怎麼樣?會影響到多少?我想這個可能在財政部也配合處理的情況下,大家可以看到比較完整的輪廓。是,我知道委員您的意思,但是我們在試算的時候,我們可以用某一年的一個時增數來算,對不對?那所以我們有算出來各個版本,中央要試數,再加試數,那個是有數字。\n105049\t132269\t但是在分配的部分因為版本裡面的相關指標並不具體不具體的情況下你在計算上就是你先把可能各版本尤其是像營業稅要多少留在地方這些東西可能先計算出來那個有計算出來就各個版本這個部分就麻煩你也提供給本席我想這個也是將來在審查的時候部長你也必須要回應的東西但是在分配的部分事實上橫向分配可能各個指標沒關係那個就是要討論的內容\n133550\t157167\t好 第二個部分就是那天主委剛上任我就問過主委一件事大家今天要同時問一下部長財政部其實在111年大家在討論說現在的很有名的叫做網紅然後網紅要不要科稅科稅的模式所以你們去做了一個研究報告網紅獲利模式跟嚴定中所稅的課稅規範這個報告在112年4月就已經出爐了\n161030\t185467\t那現在希望這個報告的建議事項是要提供一個所謂嚴體網紅科稅須知或問答集的QA但是我還沒有看到財政部的問答集也沒有看到QA也沒有看到科稅規範我們先看到了金管會針對網紅做了一個非常有可愛的定義來主委你現在那天問你你說你不知道什麼是網紅現在你知道了嗎\n187970\t189672\t就是金管會的網紅定義\n201141\t225073\t知道了我們金管會是因為太多的投信投顧業他應該要取得執照才可以做相關的所謂的解析但是我們現在的網紅每個都是投資專家每一個都在他的社群網站上面可以告訴大家哪個股票很棒哪個什麼事情很好所以投信投顧業他定了一個定義網紅你們找不到是嗎那我唸給你聽好了\n226133\t237763\t常態性與網路．包括但不限社群媒體．影音平台或線上媒體．發表資訊內容供大眾閱覽．並以此引力者也就是他引力為目標所以\n238834\t266248\t那請問莊部長你們的網紅定義出來了嗎?基本我們沒有所謂的網紅也就是說你在網路上實銷貨物所以沒有網紅這個定義我們重點是在於你透過網路去直銷貨物或勞務你有所得要怎麼課稅那這個課稅我們現在命在剛剛委員很清楚我們在訂相關的規範那這規範大概原則有了那細節的部分我們還進行要訂的更詳細那未來會讓他非常的詳細的\n267048\t267268\t黃珊珊\n286141\t307899\t投信投顧其實不是最多網紅的問題其實現在最多的部分代言的人叫做虛擬資產虛擬資產運用各種不同的網紅在網路上面不斷的宣傳因為虛擬資產沒有管理辦法所以幫他代言更沒有管理規範如果我們真的要規範不是只有規範投信投顧\n308920\t323126\t接下去的虛擬資產現在有一堆網紅在做代言目前虛擬資產又沒有知道原則所以基本叫做無法可管所以我今天要說的是就剛剛主委說的我們要課稅原則\n324821\t325281\t也不知道什麼是網紅啊\n354540\t366695\t因為你們的報告我看到的是你們就是要去討論網紅獲利模式所以現在又不是網紅只要網路通過的你們就來討論所以部長你可能要在麥克風前面講\n370940\t389879\t委託研究那個是一個名稱但是事實上在這裡面我們未來課稅沒有所謂的網紅就是你透過網路去銷售貨物老屋依照現行的法規要課什麼稅我今天指的目的就是希望它的定義清楚目標明確第二個該納管的要納管而不是只有投信投顧在納管虛擬資產完全沒人管\n390840\t402904\t主委你了解我的意思剛剛委員提到我們現在虛擬資產是有那個指引只有一個指引但是沒有任何管理辦法所以即使是幫他代言因為現在這樣的狀況跟詐騙其實是有連結的\n408726\t437385\t我們希望要納管就認真的納管而不是掛一漏萬好 另外一個問題就是上一次我有質詢郭部長新清安貸款當然是我們新的政策對於居住正義很大的幫助那新清安貸款我們上次也問過了問了一些問題今天主委新來我們就來一起再問一次因為新清安貸款它有一個很重要的要求要求自住所以自住裡面它就不可以所謂的租出去\n438166\t438306\t黃珊珊\n455675\t478871\t都到現場了吧我想問一下各位銀行你們對於新清安貸款有自助的稽查事實行為的部分請舉手有去現場看現場好大部分都有工股都很好那第二個如果他沒有自助的話部裡面銀行應該怎麼處理金管會兩位\n482951\t510236\t跟委員報告新清安貸款如您剛剛說它有好的一個政策意義但是不只被人濫用拿去做所謂的投機這是最重要的一點它變成人頭它變成拿出去轉租對這是不可以的那所以這個部分呢我們第一個要請公股航庫對於我們用清安貸款貸出去的這個對象我們可能要去分析一下它真正搞不好還跟你申請了還跟內政部申請了租金補貼或者是貸款補貼\n512097\t515360\t我們希望這些給年輕人的善意的政策不要讓年輕人成為炒房的工具甚至用納稅的錢去做了這些補貼最後變成這些包租工\n531358\t553495\t黃珊珊 拿來用他們人頭來去賺錢而且最重要是新簽案貸款的確是現在是市場的儲留我們也不希望它成為炒房的工具所以接下來去目前為止我們的公股航空應該都有做稽查但是一樣事後要做勾機那最後就是我希望今天兩位在現場剛剛我講的這個網紅的問題可能是現在市場上面普遍\n559434\t574249\t民眾因為沒有對於相關的資訊不是很完整所以他會受到網紅的影響而且影響力很大這個影響力連金管會信投顧這邊都非常的謹慎同樣的虛擬資產我希望包括\n575974\t592817\t財政部我也希望你們擬出來以後類似的人不管他是哪個行業都應該是一視同仁而且該怎麼做就怎麼做所以主委你不能只管投信投顧啊你可能要連虛擬資產的網紅要一起納管如果要納管我們可能就要全面性的納管兩位可以嗎\n593547\t596229\t所以主委 研議要快一點 因為虛擬資產已經是一個成熟的市場了\n612600\t612820\t黃珊珊委員\n","txt":"有請莊部長有請彭主委委員好我想首先恭喜兩位繼續跟行政團隊一起打拼那現在重點就是我想很多的委員間所提出來的問題在這邊我再請莊部長回覆一下有關財化法現在正在財委會即將審查所以\n財政部的立場會不會提出行政院的版本跟委員報告目前並沒有行政院的版本因為我們還在進行有關各地方政府對於這個分配指標的一個我們必須要有一個共識所以我只有一個要求因為委員會已經要開始出審了那我們昨天已經跟要求主計處的新的主計長\n希望能夠在委員會審查的同時請財政部也配合一件事情就是先以111年的預算決算來做一個在目前財務委員會裡面的16個版本每一個版本的公式可能影響的內容跟金額請你們做一個試算做一個模組出來讓我們大家在委員會審查的時候各個委員都可以看到假如\n用A版本會變成什麼樣?B版本會怎麼樣?會影響到多少?我想這個可能在財政部也配合處理的情況下,大家可以看到比較完整的輪廓。是,我知道委員您的意思,但是我們在試算的時候,我們可以用某一年的一個時增數來算,對不對?那所以我們有算出來各個版本,中央要試數,再加試數,那個是有數字。\n但是在分配的部分因為版本裡面的相關指標並不具體不具體的情況下你在計算上就是你先把可能各版本尤其是像營業稅要多少留在地方這些東西可能先計算出來那個有計算出來就各個版本這個部分就麻煩你也提供給本席我想這個也是將來在審查的時候部長你也必須要回應的東西但是在分配的部分事實上橫向分配可能各個指標沒關係那個就是要討論的內容\n好 第二個部分就是那天主委剛上任我就問過主委一件事大家今天要同時問一下部長財政部其實在111年大家在討論說現在的很有名的叫做網紅然後網紅要不要科稅科稅的模式所以你們去做了一個研究報告網紅獲利模式跟嚴定中所稅的課稅規範這個報告在112年4月就已經出爐了\n那現在希望這個報告的建議事項是要提供一個所謂嚴體網紅科稅須知或問答集的QA但是我還沒有看到財政部的問答集也沒有看到QA也沒有看到科稅規範我們先看到了金管會針對網紅做了一個非常有可愛的定義來主委你現在那天問你你說你不知道什麼是網紅現在你知道了嗎\n就是金管會的網紅定義\n知道了我們金管會是因為太多的投信投顧業他應該要取得執照才可以做相關的所謂的解析但是我們現在的網紅每個都是投資專家每一個都在他的社群網站上面可以告訴大家哪個股票很棒哪個什麼事情很好所以投信投顧業他定了一個定義網紅你們找不到是嗎那我唸給你聽好了\n常態性與網路．包括但不限社群媒體．影音平台或線上媒體．發表資訊內容供大眾閱覽．並以此引力者也就是他引力為目標所以\n那請問莊部長你們的網紅定義出來了嗎?基本我們沒有所謂的網紅也就是說你在網路上實銷貨物所以沒有網紅這個定義我們重點是在於你透過網路去直銷貨物或勞務你有所得要怎麼課稅那這個課稅我們現在命在剛剛委員很清楚我們在訂相關的規範那這規範大概原則有了那細節的部分我們還進行要訂的更詳細那未來會讓他非常的詳細的\n黃珊珊\n投信投顧其實不是最多網紅的問題其實現在最多的部分代言的人叫做虛擬資產虛擬資產運用各種不同的網紅在網路上面不斷的宣傳因為虛擬資產沒有管理辦法所以幫他代言更沒有管理規範如果我們真的要規範不是只有規範投信投顧\n接下去的虛擬資產現在有一堆網紅在做代言目前虛擬資產又沒有知道原則所以基本叫做無法可管所以我今天要說的是就剛剛主委說的我們要課稅原則\n也不知道什麼是網紅啊\n因為你們的報告我看到的是你們就是要去討論網紅獲利模式所以現在又不是網紅只要網路通過的你們就來討論所以部長你可能要在麥克風前面講\n委託研究那個是一個名稱但是事實上在這裡面我們未來課稅沒有所謂的網紅就是你透過網路去銷售貨物老屋依照現行的法規要課什麼稅我今天指的目的就是希望它的定義清楚目標明確第二個該納管的要納管而不是只有投信投顧在納管虛擬資產完全沒人管\n主委你了解我的意思剛剛委員提到我們現在虛擬資產是有那個指引只有一個指引但是沒有任何管理辦法所以即使是幫他代言因為現在這樣的狀況跟詐騙其實是有連結的\n我們希望要納管就認真的納管而不是掛一漏萬好 另外一個問題就是上一次我有質詢郭部長新清安貸款當然是我們新的政策對於居住正義很大的幫助那新清安貸款我們上次也問過了問了一些問題今天主委新來我們就來一起再問一次因為新清安貸款它有一個很重要的要求要求自住所以自住裡面它就不可以所謂的租出去\n黃珊珊\n都到現場了吧我想問一下各位銀行你們對於新清安貸款有自助的稽查事實行為的部分請舉手有去現場看現場好大部分都有工股都很好那第二個如果他沒有自助的話部裡面銀行應該怎麼處理金管會兩位\n跟委員報告新清安貸款如您剛剛說它有好的一個政策意義但是不只被人濫用拿去做所謂的投機這是最重要的一點它變成人頭它變成拿出去轉租對這是不可以的那所以這個部分呢我們第一個要請公股航庫對於我們用清安貸款貸出去的這個對象我們可能要去分析一下它真正搞不好還跟你申請了還跟內政部申請了租金補貼或者是貸款補貼\n我們希望這些給年輕人的善意的政策不要讓年輕人成為炒房的工具甚至用納稅的錢去做了這些補貼最後變成這些包租工\n黃珊珊 拿來用他們人頭來去賺錢而且最重要是新簽案貸款的確是現在是市場的儲留我們也不希望它成為炒房的工具所以接下來去目前為止我們的公股航空應該都有做稽查但是一樣事後要做勾機那最後就是我希望今天兩位在現場剛剛我講的這個網紅的問題可能是現在市場上面普遍\n民眾因為沒有對於相關的資訊不是很完整所以他會受到網紅的影響而且影響力很大這個影響力連金管會信投顧這邊都非常的謹慎同樣的虛擬資產我希望包括\n財政部我也希望你們擬出來以後類似的人不管他是哪個行業都應該是一視同仁而且該怎麼做就怎麼做所以主委你不能只管投信投顧啊你可能要連虛擬資產的網紅要一起納管如果要納管我們可能就要全面性的納管兩位可以嗎\n所以主委 研議要快一點 因為虛擬資產已經是一個成熟的市場了\n黃珊珊委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.325 --> 00:26.340\n有 請 莊 部 長 有 請 彭 主 委 委 員 好 我 想 首 先 恭 喜 兩 位 繼 續 跟 行 政 團 隊 一 起 打 拼 那 現 在 重 點 就 是 我 想 很 多 的 委 員 間 所 提 出 來 的 問 題 在 這 邊 我 再 請 莊 部 長 回 覆 一 下 有 關 財 化 法 現 在 正 在 財 委 會 即 將 審 查 所 以\n\n00:30.010 --> 00:52.577\n財 政 部 的 立 場 會 不 會 提 出 行 政 院 的 版 本 跟 委 員 報 告 目 前 並 沒 有 行 政 院 的 版 本 因 為 我 們 還 在 進 行 有 關 各 地 方 政 府 對 於 這 個 分 配 指 標 的 一 個 我 們 必 須 要 有 一 個 共 識 所 以 我 只 有 一 個 要 求 因 為 委 員 會 已 經 要 開 始 出 審 了 那 我 們 昨 天 已 經 跟 要 求 主 計 處 的 新 的 主 計 長\n\n00:53.857 --> 01:20.743\n希 望 能 夠 在 委 員 會 審 查 的 同 時 請 財 政 部 也 配 合 一 件 事 情 就 是 先 以 1 1 1 年 的 預 算 決 算 來 做 一 個 在 目 前 財 務 委 員 會 裡 面 的 1 6 個 版 本 每 一 個 版 本 的 公 式 可 能 影 響 的 內 容 跟 金 額 請 你 們 做 一 個 試 算 做 一 個 模 組 出 來 讓 我 們 大 家 在 委 員 會 審 查 的 時 候 各 個 委 員 都 可 以 看 到 假 如\n\n01:21.543 --> 01:43.629\n用 A 版 本 會 變 成 什 麼 樣 ? B 版 本 會 怎 麼 樣 ? 會 影 響 到 多 少 ? 我 想 這 個 可 能 在 財 政 部 也 配 合 處 理 的 情 況 下 , 大 家 可 以 看 到 比 較 完 整 的 輪 廓 。 是 , 我 知 道 委 員 您 的 意 思 , 但 是 我 們 在 試 算 的 時 候 , 我 們 可 以 用 某 一 年 的 一 個 時 增 數 來 算 , 對 不 對 ? 那 所 以 我 們 有 算 出 來 各 個 版 本 , 中 央 要 試 數 , 再 加 試 數 , 那 個 是 有 數 字 。\n\n01:45.049 --> 02:12.269\n但 是 在 分 配 的 部 分 因 為 版 本 裡 面 的 相 關 指 標 並 不 具 體 不 具 體 的 情 況 下 你 在 計 算 上 就 是 你 先 把 可 能 各 版 本 尤 其 是 像 營 業 稅 要 多 少 留 在 地 方 這 些 東 西 可 能 先 計 算 出 來 那 個 有 計 算 出 來 就 各 個 版 本 這 個 部 分 就 麻 煩 你 也 提 供 給 本 席 我 想 這 個 也 是 將 來 在 審 查 的 時 候 部 長 你 也 必 須 要 回 應 的 東 西 但 是 在 分 配 的 部 分 事 實 上 橫 向 分 配 可 能 各 個 指 標 沒 關 係 那 個 就 是 要 討 論 的 內 容\n\n02:13.550 --> 02:37.167\n好 第 二 個 部 分 就 是 那 天 主 委 剛 上 任 我 就 問 過 主 委 一 件 事 大 家 今 天 要 同 時 問 一 下 部 長 財 政 部 其 實 在 1 1 1 年 大 家 在 討 論 說 現 在 的 很 有 名 的 叫 做 網 紅 然 後 網 紅 要 不 要 科 稅 科 稅 的 模 式 所 以 你 們 去 做 了 一 個 研 究 報 告 網 紅 獲 利 模 式 跟 嚴 定 中 所 稅 的 課 稅 規 範 這 個 報 告 在 1 1 2 年 4 月 就 已 經 出 爐 了\n\n02:41.030 --> 03:05.467\n那 現 在 希 望 這 個 報 告 的 建 議 事 項 是 要 提 供 一 個 所 謂 嚴 體 網 紅 科 稅 須 知 或 問 答 集 的 Q A 但 是 我 還 沒 有 看 到 財 政 部 的 問 答 集 也 沒 有 看 到 Q A 也 沒 有 看 到 科 稅 規 範 我 們 先 看 到 了 金 管 會 針 對 網 紅 做 了 一 個 非 常 有 可 愛 的 定 義 來 主 委 你 現 在 那 天 問 你 你 說 你 不 知 道 什 麼 是 網 紅 現 在 你 知 道 了 嗎\n\n03:07.970 --> 03:09.672\n就 是 金 管 會 的 網 紅 定 義\n\n03:21.141 --> 03:45.073\n知 道 了 我 們 金 管 會 是 因 為 太 多 的 投 信 投 顧 業 他 應 該 要 取 得 執 照 才 可 以 做 相 關 的 所 謂 的 解 析 但 是 我 們 現 在 的 網 紅 每 個 都 是 投 資 專 家 每 一 個 都 在 他 的 社 群 網 站 上 面 可 以 告 訴 大 家 哪 個 股 票 很 棒 哪 個 什 麼 事 情 很 好 所 以 投 信 投 顧 業 他 定 了 一 個 定 義 網 紅 你 們 找 不 到 是 嗎 那 我 唸 給 你 聽 好 了\n\n03:46.133 --> 03:57.763\n常 態 性 與 網 路 ． 包 括 但 不 限 社 群 媒 體 ． 影 音 平 台 或 線 上 媒 體 ． 發 表 資 訊 內 容 供 大 眾 閱 覽 ． 並 以 此 引 力 者 也 就 是 他 引 力 為 目 標 所 以\n\n03:58.834 --> 04:26.248\n那 請 問 莊 部 長 你 們 的 網 紅 定 義 出 來 了 嗎 ? 基 本 我 們 沒 有 所 謂 的 網 紅 也 就 是 說 你 在 網 路 上 實 銷 貨 物 所 以 沒 有 網 紅 這 個 定 義 我 們 重 點 是 在 於 你 透 過 網 路 去 直 銷 貨 物 或 勞 務 你 有 所 得 要 怎 麼 課 稅 那 這 個 課 稅 我 們 現 在 命 在 剛 剛 委 員 很 清 楚 我 們 在 訂 相 關 的 規 範 那 這 規 範 大 概 原 則 有 了 那 細 節 的 部 分 我 們 還 進 行 要 訂 的 更 詳 細 那 未 來 會 讓 他 非 常 的 詳 細 的\n\n04:27.048 --> 04:27.268\n黃 珊 珊\n\n04:46.141 --> 05:07.899\n投 信 投 顧 其 實 不 是 最 多 網 紅 的 問 題 其 實 現 在 最 多 的 部 分 代 言 的 人 叫 做 虛 擬 資 產 虛 擬 資 產 運 用 各 種 不 同 的 網 紅 在 網 路 上 面 不 斷 的 宣 傳 因 為 虛 擬 資 產 沒 有 管 理 辦 法 所 以 幫 他 代 言 更 沒 有 管 理 規 範 如 果 我 們 真 的 要 規 範 不 是 只 有 規 範 投 信 投 顧\n\n05:08.920 --> 05:23.126\n接 下 去 的 虛 擬 資 產 現 在 有 一 堆 網 紅 在 做 代 言 目 前 虛 擬 資 產 又 沒 有 知 道 原 則 所 以 基 本 叫 做 無 法 可 管 所 以 我 今 天 要 說 的 是 就 剛 剛 主 委 說 的 我 們 要 課 稅 原 則\n\n05:24.821 --> 05:25.281\n也 不 知 道 什 麼 是 網 紅 啊\n\n05:54.540 --> 06:06.695\n因 為 你 們 的 報 告 我 看 到 的 是 你 們 就 是 要 去 討 論 網 紅 獲 利 模 式 所 以 現 在 又 不 是 網 紅 只 要 網 路 通 過 的 你 們 就 來 討 論 所 以 部 長 你 可 能 要 在 麥 克 風 前 面 講\n\n06:10.940 --> 06:29.879\n委 託 研 究 那 個 是 一 個 名 稱 但 是 事 實 上 在 這 裡 面 我 們 未 來 課 稅 沒 有 所 謂 的 網 紅 就 是 你 透 過 網 路 去 銷 售 貨 物 老 屋 依 照 現 行 的 法 規 要 課 什 麼 稅 我 今 天 指 的 目 的 就 是 希 望 它 的 定 義 清 楚 目 標 明 確 第 二 個 該 納 管 的 要 納 管 而 不 是 只 有 投 信 投 顧 在 納 管 虛 擬 資 產 完 全 沒 人 管\n\n06:30.840 --> 06:42.904\n主 委 你 了 解 我 的 意 思 剛 剛 委 員 提 到 我 們 現 在 虛 擬 資 產 是 有 那 個 指 引 只 有 一 個 指 引 但 是 沒 有 任 何 管 理 辦 法 所 以 即 使 是 幫 他 代 言 因 為 現 在 這 樣 的 狀 況 跟 詐 騙 其 實 是 有 連 結 的\n\n06:48.726 --> 07:17.385\n我 們 希 望 要 納 管 就 認 真 的 納 管 而 不 是 掛 一 漏 萬 好 另 外 一 個 問 題 就 是 上 一 次 我 有 質 詢 郭 部 長 新 清 安 貸 款 當 然 是 我 們 新 的 政 策 對 於 居 住 正 義 很 大 的 幫 助 那 新 清 安 貸 款 我 們 上 次 也 問 過 了 問 了 一 些 問 題 今 天 主 委 新 來 我 們 就 來 一 起 再 問 一 次 因 為 新 清 安 貸 款 它 有 一 個 很 重 要 的 要 求 要 求 自 住 所 以 自 住 裡 面 它 就 不 可 以 所 謂 的 租 出 去\n\n07:18.166 --> 07:18.306\n黃 珊 珊\n\n07:35.675 --> 07:58.871\n都 到 現 場 了 吧 我 想 問 一 下 各 位 銀 行 你 們 對 於 新 清 安 貸 款 有 自 助 的 稽 查 事 實 行 為 的 部 分 請 舉 手 有 去 現 場 看 現 場 好 大 部 分 都 有 工 股 都 很 好 那 第 二 個 如 果 他 沒 有 自 助 的 話 部 裡 面 銀 行 應 該 怎 麼 處 理 金 管 會 兩 位\n\n08:02.951 --> 08:30.236\n跟 委 員 報 告 新 清 安 貸 款 如 您 剛 剛 說 它 有 好 的 一 個 政 策 意 義 但 是 不 只 被 人 濫 用 拿 去 做 所 謂 的 投 機 這 是 最 重 要 的 一 點 它 變 成 人 頭 它 變 成 拿 出 去 轉 租 對 這 是 不 可 以 的 那 所 以 這 個 部 分 呢 我 們 第 一 個 要 請 公 股 航 庫 對 於 我 們 用 清 安 貸 款 貸 出 去 的 這 個 對 象 我 們 可 能 要 去 分 析 一 下 它 真 正 搞 不 好 還 跟 你 申 請 了 還 跟 內 政 部 申 請 了 租 金 補 貼 或 者 是 貸 款 補 貼\n\n08:32.097 --> 08:35.360\n我 們 希 望 這 些 給 年 輕 人 的 善 意 的 政 策 不 要 讓 年 輕 人 成 為 炒 房 的 工 具 甚 至 用 納 稅 的 錢 去 做 了 這 些 補 貼 最 後 變 成 這 些 包 租 工\n\n08:51.358 --> 09:13.495\n黃 珊 珊 拿 來 用 他 們 人 頭 來 去 賺 錢 而 且 最 重 要 是 新 簽 案 貸 款 的 確 是 現 在 是 市 場 的 儲 留 我 們 也 不 希 望 它 成 為 炒 房 的 工 具 所 以 接 下 來 去 目 前 為 止 我 們 的 公 股 航 空 應 該 都 有 做 稽 查 但 是 一 樣 事 後 要 做 勾 機 那 最 後 就 是 我 希 望 今 天 兩 位 在 現 場 剛 剛 我 講 的 這 個 網 紅 的 問 題 可 能 是 現 在 市 場 上 面 普 遍\n\n09:19.434 --> 09:34.249\n民 眾 因 為 沒 有 對 於 相 關 的 資 訊 不 是 很 完 整 所 以 他 會 受 到 網 紅 的 影 響 而 且 影 響 力 很 大 這 個 影 響 力 連 金 管 會 信 投 顧 這 邊 都 非 常 的 謹 慎 同 樣 的 虛 擬 資 產 我 希 望 包 括\n\n09:35.974 --> 09:52.817\n財 政 部 我 也 希 望 你 們 擬 出 來 以 後 類 似 的 人 不 管 他 是 哪 個 行 業 都 應 該 是 一 視 同 仁 而 且 該 怎 麼 做 就 怎 麼 做 所 以 主 委 你 不 能 只 管 投 信 投 顧 啊 你 可 能 要 連 虛 擬 資 產 的 網 紅 要 一 起 納 管 如 果 要 納 管 我 們 可 能 就 要 全 面 性 的 納 管 兩 位 可 以 嗎\n\n09:53.547 --> 09:56.229\n所 以 主 委 研 議 要 快 一 點 因 為 虛 擬 資 產 已 經 是 一 個 成 熟 的 市 場 了\n\n10:12.600 --> 10:12.820\n黃 珊 珊 委 員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.325,"end":26.34,"text":"有請莊部長有請彭主委委員好我想首先恭喜兩位繼續跟行政團隊一起打拼那現在重點就是我想很多的委員間所提出來的問題在這邊我再請莊部長回覆一下有關財化法現在正在財委會即將審查所以"},{"start":30.01,"end":52.577,"text":"財政部的立場會不會提出行政院的版本跟委員報告目前並沒有行政院的版本因為我們還在進行有關各地方政府對於這個分配指標的一個我們必須要有一個共識所以我只有一個要求因為委員會已經要開始出審了那我們昨天已經跟要求主計處的新的主計長"},{"start":53.857,"end":80.743,"text":"希望能夠在委員會審查的同時請財政部也配合一件事情就是先以111年的預算決算來做一個在目前財務委員會裡面的16個版本每一個版本的公式可能影響的內容跟金額請你們做一個試算做一個模組出來讓我們大家在委員會審查的時候各個委員都可以看到假如"},{"start":81.543,"end":103.629,"text":"用A版本會變成什麼樣?B版本會怎麼樣?會影響到多少?我想這個可能在財政部也配合處理的情況下,大家可以看到比較完整的輪廓。是,我知道委員您的意思,但是我們在試算的時候,我們可以用某一年的一個時增數來算,對不對?那所以我們有算出來各個版本,中央要試數,再加試數,那個是有數字。"},{"start":105.049,"end":132.269,"text":"但是在分配的部分因為版本裡面的相關指標並不具體不具體的情況下你在計算上就是你先把可能各版本尤其是像營業稅要多少留在地方這些東西可能先計算出來那個有計算出來就各個版本這個部分就麻煩你也提供給本席我想這個也是將來在審查的時候部長你也必須要回應的東西但是在分配的部分事實上橫向分配可能各個指標沒關係那個就是要討論的內容"},{"start":133.55,"end":157.167,"text":"好 第二個部分就是那天主委剛上任我就問過主委一件事大家今天要同時問一下部長財政部其實在111年大家在討論說現在的很有名的叫做網紅然後網紅要不要科稅科稅的模式所以你們去做了一個研究報告網紅獲利模式跟嚴定中所稅的課稅規範這個報告在112年4月就已經出爐了"},{"start":161.03,"end":185.467,"text":"那現在希望這個報告的建議事項是要提供一個所謂嚴體網紅科稅須知或問答集的QA但是我還沒有看到財政部的問答集也沒有看到QA也沒有看到科稅規範我們先看到了金管會針對網紅做了一個非常有可愛的定義來主委你現在那天問你你說你不知道什麼是網紅現在你知道了嗎"},{"start":187.97,"end":189.672,"text":"就是金管會的網紅定義"},{"start":201.141,"end":225.073,"text":"知道了我們金管會是因為太多的投信投顧業他應該要取得執照才可以做相關的所謂的解析但是我們現在的網紅每個都是投資專家每一個都在他的社群網站上面可以告訴大家哪個股票很棒哪個什麼事情很好所以投信投顧業他定了一個定義網紅你們找不到是嗎那我唸給你聽好了"},{"start":226.133,"end":237.763,"text":"常態性與網路．包括但不限社群媒體．影音平台或線上媒體．發表資訊內容供大眾閱覽．並以此引力者也就是他引力為目標所以"},{"start":238.834,"end":266.248,"text":"那請問莊部長你們的網紅定義出來了嗎?基本我們沒有所謂的網紅也就是說你在網路上實銷貨物所以沒有網紅這個定義我們重點是在於你透過網路去直銷貨物或勞務你有所得要怎麼課稅那這個課稅我們現在命在剛剛委員很清楚我們在訂相關的規範那這規範大概原則有了那細節的部分我們還進行要訂的更詳細那未來會讓他非常的詳細的"},{"start":267.048,"end":267.268,"text":"黃珊珊"},{"start":286.141,"end":307.899,"text":"投信投顧其實不是最多網紅的問題其實現在最多的部分代言的人叫做虛擬資產虛擬資產運用各種不同的網紅在網路上面不斷的宣傳因為虛擬資產沒有管理辦法所以幫他代言更沒有管理規範如果我們真的要規範不是只有規範投信投顧"},{"start":308.92,"end":323.126,"text":"接下去的虛擬資產現在有一堆網紅在做代言目前虛擬資產又沒有知道原則所以基本叫做無法可管所以我今天要說的是就剛剛主委說的我們要課稅原則"},{"start":324.821,"end":325.281,"text":"也不知道什麼是網紅啊"},{"start":354.54,"end":366.695,"text":"因為你們的報告我看到的是你們就是要去討論網紅獲利模式所以現在又不是網紅只要網路通過的你們就來討論所以部長你可能要在麥克風前面講"},{"start":370.94,"end":389.879,"text":"委託研究那個是一個名稱但是事實上在這裡面我們未來課稅沒有所謂的網紅就是你透過網路去銷售貨物老屋依照現行的法規要課什麼稅我今天指的目的就是希望它的定義清楚目標明確第二個該納管的要納管而不是只有投信投顧在納管虛擬資產完全沒人管"},{"start":390.84,"end":402.904,"text":"主委你了解我的意思剛剛委員提到我們現在虛擬資產是有那個指引只有一個指引但是沒有任何管理辦法所以即使是幫他代言因為現在這樣的狀況跟詐騙其實是有連結的"},{"start":408.726,"end":437.385,"text":"我們希望要納管就認真的納管而不是掛一漏萬好 另外一個問題就是上一次我有質詢郭部長新清安貸款當然是我們新的政策對於居住正義很大的幫助那新清安貸款我們上次也問過了問了一些問題今天主委新來我們就來一起再問一次因為新清安貸款它有一個很重要的要求要求自住所以自住裡面它就不可以所謂的租出去"},{"start":438.166,"end":438.306,"text":"黃珊珊"},{"start":455.675,"end":478.871,"text":"都到現場了吧我想問一下各位銀行你們對於新清安貸款有自助的稽查事實行為的部分請舉手有去現場看現場好大部分都有工股都很好那第二個如果他沒有自助的話部裡面銀行應該怎麼處理金管會兩位"},{"start":482.951,"end":510.236,"text":"跟委員報告新清安貸款如您剛剛說它有好的一個政策意義但是不只被人濫用拿去做所謂的投機這是最重要的一點它變成人頭它變成拿出去轉租對這是不可以的那所以這個部分呢我們第一個要請公股航庫對於我們用清安貸款貸出去的這個對象我們可能要去分析一下它真正搞不好還跟你申請了還跟內政部申請了租金補貼或者是貸款補貼"},{"start":512.097,"end":515.36,"text":"我們希望這些給年輕人的善意的政策不要讓年輕人成為炒房的工具甚至用納稅的錢去做了這些補貼最後變成這些包租工"},{"start":531.358,"end":553.495,"text":"黃珊珊 拿來用他們人頭來去賺錢而且最重要是新簽案貸款的確是現在是市場的儲留我們也不希望它成為炒房的工具所以接下來去目前為止我們的公股航空應該都有做稽查但是一樣事後要做勾機那最後就是我希望今天兩位在現場剛剛我講的這個網紅的問題可能是現在市場上面普遍"},{"start":559.434,"end":574.249,"text":"民眾因為沒有對於相關的資訊不是很完整所以他會受到網紅的影響而且影響力很大這個影響力連金管會信投顧這邊都非常的謹慎同樣的虛擬資產我希望包括"},{"start":575.974,"end":592.817,"text":"財政部我也希望你們擬出來以後類似的人不管他是哪個行業都應該是一視同仁而且該怎麼做就怎麼做所以主委你不能只管投信投顧啊你可能要連虛擬資產的網紅要一起納管如果要納管我們可能就要全面性的納管兩位可以嗎"},{"start":593.547,"end":596.229,"text":"所以主委 研議要快一點 因為虛擬資產已經是一個成熟的市場了"},{"start":612.6,"end":612.82,"text":"黃珊珊委員"}]}}}}