{"id":153379,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153379","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/bbbc431469b8aebad1118ab4861547e44869c0f3e297fc60446d6a815e913744f429f83b94f673bd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"11:17:23 - 11:29:22","影片長度":"00:11:59","會議時間":"2024-05-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第28次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院秘書長、法務部部長、衛生福利部、教育部率所屬相關單位列席就「鐵窗裡的少年─如何提升輔導處遇、預防再犯、落實社區轉銜機制、促進社會復歸，並完備社會安全網」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","date":"2024-05-30","start_time":"2024-05-30T11:17:23+08:00","end_time":"2024-05-30T11:29:22+08:00","duration":719,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第28次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":28,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-28"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":753,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（11時17分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：麻煩部長。"],["吳委員思瑤：謝謝部長，辛苦了。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員好。"],["吳委員思瑤：自從我們通過了國會擴權的法案，越來越多的機關，不管是憲政機關或者是民間的法界都站出來發表很多相關的聲明，認為這樣的法案不應當存在，所以監察院的新聞稿很清楚的釐定出三大要項，認為國會擴權的法案已經明顯的涉及違反憲法的權力分立原則。昨天最新的是國家人權委員會也發布了新聞稿，他們以世界人權宣言以及公民與政治權力國際公約的相關規定，很清楚的定出三大反對國會擴權法案，因為嚴重的違反國際人權公約。第一項，立法權過度擴張有侵害人民生活與隱私之虞，這一點在說的是，這一次國會擴權法案職權行使法第四十七條、第四十八條及第五十條之一，對於國會調查權的擴充都會侵害人民的生活與隱私，你同意這一點嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們認為整個法案的制定必須要遵守權力的分立，尤其是五權憲法是各有職掌，我們是希望能夠合乎憲法的權力分立原則。"],["吳委員思瑤：好。世界人權宣言第十七條規定，任何人之財產不容無理剝奪，這也是國家人權委員會所說的，已經通過的立法院職權行使法第四十七條及第四十八條就違反了要求人民提供跟隱私相關，甚至營業秘密、專利權利等等，而且法案中沒有明定其必要性及合理性。所以你也同意這個觀點嗎？對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：對，這的確是有爭議。"],["吳委員思瑤：是有爭議的。第三個，國家人權委員會說法案所通過的第五十條之一到之四，都嚴重的違反世界人權宣言第十條、第十一條，以及公民與政治權利國際公約第十四條，也就是接受調查的一般民眾不得拒絕出席，這是現在的法案，是擴權的內容喔！以及如果要請律師陪同的話，還需要由主持的主席同意，所以國家人權委員會的主張認為這一點是戕害人民獨立無私及平等公開之司法權，您同意嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：的確有這個爭議。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，謝謝部長的回答。所以我們再一次在這裡透過論證，國家人權委員會以世界人權宣言以及我們所簽署的兩公約的原則，都再一次的告訴我們，這一次強行碾壓表決通過的國會擴權法案是違反人權的。","繼續我要就教於您的，昨天我聽到在野黨的黨鞭說要成立國會的在野特偵組。部長，特偵組在2007成立，2017廢除嘛？"],["鄭部長銘謙：是。"],["吳委員思瑤：是立法院拿掉了法院組織法第六十三條之一，那您認為現在在野黨所說的要再次恢復所謂的在野國會特偵組，您的看法如何？"],["鄭部長銘謙：特偵組是屬於偵查的一個機關，以憲法權力分立的原則，這是屬於司法權的一環。"],["吳委員思瑤：是，所以國會沒有這個權力嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：就大法官的解釋，對國會的調查權這部分有清楚的解釋。"],["吳委員思瑤：有清楚的解釋，所以沒有所謂什麼國會特偵組成立之必要，更沒有合理性，它更沒有合憲性嘛，對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分因為我們還是希望以憲法的權力分立原則來看這件事情。"],["吳委員思瑤：我都不需要再論述過去特偵組所犯下違反通保法、監察法相關的九月政爭的事情，我都不用再贅述，但是我今天在這裡要把歷史文件拿出來再說明一次，也就是過去要廢除特偵組在討論法院組織法第六十三條之一的時候，當時的法務部長在這裡提出了五大反對特偵組繼續存在的理由。第一，特偵組影響檢察機關內部監督機制，對不對？Yes！"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個的確是有。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，那當初的第二點宣言，違反行政法上機關與職務不兩立的原則，對不對？依舊存在嘛！第三點，法務部反對特偵組是因為概括條款明定特偵組的事務管轄違反了法律明確性的原則，這個理由繼續存在嘛，對不對？第四點，檢察官具有司法屬性，所以沒有再設特偵組的必要，對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：對，這部分就政策已經決定。"],["吳委員思瑤：已經決定了。最後一點，當時的法務部說所謂的特偵組是違反再議程序及案件的管考制度，所以法務部期期以為不可。所以過去的主張如此，制度是一套的，司法的精神是一致的，過去既然特偵組被廢除，也被立法院自己通過法律來廢除的話，現在更沒有所謂成立國會在野特偵組之可能及必要了，對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：現在檢察官偵查的運作應該很順，所以我是認為這部分我們依照目前的機制，我想社會應該可以理解我們現在偵查權的運作是相當的……"],["吳委員思瑤：謝謝部長的回答。施政是延續的，不分藍綠，國家的制度是永續的，所以我們都不能夠再容許讓設立另外一個疊床架屋的機關來私設刑堂，成為另一個東廠，讓政治干預司法，淪為政黨打手的歷史事件再一次被重蹈覆轍，謝謝您今天回應我的一些主張跟說明。","繼續回到今天的主題，即強化社會安全網。我跟您分享我長期在教育及文化委員會，我一直在持續精進校園三級的輔導機制，就是三級心輔機制，但是一再的從發展性輔導到介入性輔導到處遇性輔導，其實是層層失靈的，因為幾乎六成以上有自殺傾向，或是真正自殺未遂或真的是不幸離開我們的孩子，六成以上是沒有被心輔機制接住，所以教育部現在正在全面精進檢視現在的校園三級輔導機制。今天的主題矯正學校也是三級輔導機制，就部長您認為，現在矯正學校的三級輔導機制，當然適用跟一般校園不同，這有更特殊性的需求，現行的三級機制您認為運作得宜嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：就目前的運作，我想在實務上是不是可以請矯正署周署長來代為回應？"],["吳委員思瑤：好。署長，這是一個核心的議題，您自己覺得運作得宜嗎？"],["周署長輝煌：報告委員，我們的三級機制在第一級是屬於一般性的，這個一般性是由班導師還有教導員來負責。"],["吳委員思瑤：制度我都知道，您就回答我您認為現在三級在矯正學校……"],["周署長輝煌：在三級的機制裡面，我們覺得輔導教師這方面缺額還有5位，我們必須要來爭取，要來補強，這是屬於第二級機制。"],["吳委員思瑤：我再次來對應教育部的，現在正在修學生輔導法，吳思瑤提案希望能夠讓大學裡頭的學生輔導是1比900，這是教育部從1比1,200要進化到1比900，現在法律還沒修正過，但是都用公務預算去補強它。現在要進入這個核心，我剛剛的問題跟命題是說現在矯正學校的三級輔導機制有沒有運作得宜，它就關乎我們的輔導老師的比例員額是不是夠，特教老師是不是夠，以及專業心社人力這三大塊嘛，現行的矯正學校的輔導老師是1比25，特教老師是1比21，專業心社人力足夠嗎？請署長回應一下。"],["周署長輝煌：心社人員不足18名……"],["吳委員思瑤：等一下，輔導老師……"],["周署長輝煌：缺5名。心理師、社工師缺18名，這個我們會來爭取。"],["吳委員思瑤：那特教呢？"],["周署長輝煌：我們感謝國教署……"],["吳委員思瑤：特教呢？特教老師呢？"],["周署長輝煌：特教足夠，沒問題。"],["吳委員思瑤：而且是剛補足的嘛，對不對？"],["周署長輝煌：特教部分沒問題。"],["吳委員思瑤：所以這是重中之重，部長，您剛上任，我就用這一頁來告訴您。現在的輔導老師還缺5名，然後特教老師是一直補一直補才補上的，心社人力還缺18個，這是新任部長很重要的工作，矯正學校不能放棄任何一個孩子，這部分您承諾要多久可以來補強？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們儘速來補強。"],["吳委員思瑤：不行，您要給我一個時間點，我跟你講喔，教育部還沒有修法之前，就用預算的方式來補強，沒有修法先用預算的方式來補強喔，現在大學已經補強了將近八成，是用公務預算來編列喔，你可以突破員額的限制，你現在問題是出在聘不到人還是沒有錢？"],["鄭部長銘謙：困難這部分我們是不是請矯正署說明？因為這個115年才有辦法到位。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，部長，我們時間到了，您一個月內去提出如何補強的作法，包括時程。我分享給你為什麼我要告訴你教育部的機制，學生輔導法是要修法的，還沒有修法前，教育部就用公務預算想方設法，用公務預算去補貼學校補強心輔人力，可以從1比1,200進化到1比900，現在已經八成的學校。還沒修法前自己就用國家給的預算來補強，矯正學校的數量是少的，比起教育部要面對一百多個大學，所以一個月內提出你們用什麼樣的行政作業方法來補足這些員額，老師師資、輔導老師、特教老師、專業心社人力都是矯正學校三級輔導機制能不能夠work到位最核心的議題啊，一個月內提出方案好嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：可以。"],["吳委員思瑤：這個我一定會追到天涯海角都會追到你們，就如同我追蹤教育部的方法，好不好？"],["鄭部長銘謙：好。"],["吳委員思瑤：所以很遺憾，我以為你會在今天告訴我一個明確的時程，但您是新任的部長，我可以給您多一點時間，我們後續再討論。謝謝主席，謝謝部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳委員。接下來請羅智強委員代理主席。"],["主席（羅委員智強代）：請吳宗憲委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":332,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-28","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","翁曉玲","羅智強","莊瑞雄","林思銘","林月琴","鍾佳濱","張雅琳","吳思瑤","陳培瑜","傅崐萁","陳俊宇","謝龍介","沈發惠"],"page_start":275,"meetingDate":["2024-05-30"],"gazette_id":"1135401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135401_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第28次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院秘書長、法務部部長、衛生福利部、教育部率所屬相關單位列席就「鐵窗裡的少年─\n如何提升輔導處遇、預防再犯、落實社區轉銜機制、促進社會復歸，並完備社會安全網」進行專\n題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1135401_00011"}},"transcript":{"id":"153379","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153379","tool":"pyannote","id":"153379-pyannote"},"job_id":"zdp16LzvlIj9WBiF","queued_at":"2024-05-30 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\"score\": 0.669}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 687.039, \"end\": 687.119, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 687.119, \"end\": 687.279, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 687.279, \"end\": 687.52, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 687.52, \"end\": 687.54, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"吳\"}, {\"word\": \"思\", \"start\": 703.672, \"end\": 703.692, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"瑤\"}], \"language\": \"en\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,514 --> 00:00:06,898\n謝 謝 主 席 有 請 部 長\n\n2\n00:00:14,665 --> 00:00:14,685\n吳 思 瑤 議 員\n\n3\n00:00:44,905 --> 00:00:59,495\n昨 天 最 新 的 是 國 家 人 權 委 員 會 也 發 布 了 新 聞 稿 他 們 以 世 界 人 權 宣 言 以 及 公 民 與 政 治 權 利 國 際 公 約 的 相 關 規 定 很 清 楚 的 訂 出 三 大 反 對 國 會 擴 權 法 案 因 為 嚴 重 的 違 反 國 際 人 權 公 約\n\n4\n00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:26,836\n第 一 項 立 法 權 過 度 擴 張 有 侵 害 人 民 生 活 與 隱 私 之 餘 這 一 點 在 說 的 是 這 一 次 國 會 擴 權 法 案 職 權 刑 事 法 4 7 4 8 條 以 及 5 0 條 之 一 對 於 國 會 調 查 權 的 擴 充 都 會 侵 害 人 民 的 生 活 與 隱 私 你 同 意 這 一 點 嗎\n\n5\n00:01:28,873 --> 00:01:48,387\n我 們 認 為 那 個 整 個 一 個 法 案 的 一 個 制 定 必 須 要 遵 守 權 利 一 個 分 立 尤 其 是 五 權 憲 法 是 各 有 職 長 我 們 是 希 望 能 夠 合 乎 到 憲 法 的 權 利 分 立 原 則 好 那 世 界 人 權 宣 言 第 1 7 條 規 定 的 任 何 人 之 財 產 不 容 無 理 剝 奪 這 也 是 國 家 人 權 委 員 會 所 說 的\n\n6\n00:01:50,589 --> 00:02:07,696\n已 經 通 過 的 立 法 院 職 權 刑 事 法 第 4 7 第 4 8 條 就 違 反 了 要 求 人 民 提 供 跟 隱 私 相 關 甚 至 營 業 秘 密 專 利 權 利 等 等 而 且 法 案 中 沒 有 明 定 其 必 要 性 及 合 理 性 所 以 你 也 同 意 這 個 觀 點 嗎 對 不 對 這 的 確 是 有 爭 議\n\n7\n00:02:10,057 --> 00:02:28,252\n是 有 爭 議 的 第 三 個 呢 國 家 人 權 委 員 會 說 法 案 所 通 過 的 第 5 0 條 之 一 到 之 四 都 嚴 重 的 違 反 世 界 人 權 宣 言 的 第 1 0 條 、 1 1 條 以 及 公 民 與 政 治 權 利 國 際 公 約 第 1 4 條 也 就 是 接 受 調 查 的 一 般 民 眾\n\n8\n00:02:29,073 --> 00:02:47,706\n不 得 拒 絕 出 席 這 是 現 在 的 法 案 擴 權 的 內 容 以 及 如 果 要 請 律 師 陪 同 的 話 還 需 要 由 主 持 的 主 席 來 同 意 所 以 國 家 人 權 委 員 會 的 主 張 認 為 這 一 點 是 強 害 人 民 獨 立 無 私 及 平 等 公 開 之 司 法 權 您 同 意 嗎\n\n9\n00:02:48,346 --> 00:03:07,726\n的 確 有 這 個 爭 議 好 謝 謝 部 長 的 回 答 所 以 我 們 再 一 次 在 這 裡 透 過 論 證 國 家 人 權 委 員 會 他 以 世 界 人 權 宣 言 以 及 我 們 所 簽 署 的 兩 公 約 的 原 則 都 再 一 次 的 告 訴 我 們 這 一 次 強 行 碾 壓 表 決 通 過 的 國 會 擴 權 法 案 是 違 反 人 權 的\n\n10\n00:03:09,227 --> 00:03:36,861\n那 下 一 個 呢 我 要 就 教 於 您 的 就 是 昨 天 我 聽 到 在 野 黨 的 黨 編 說 要 成 立 國 會 的 在 野 特 徵 組 部 長 特 徵 組 2 0 0 7 成 立 2 0 1 7 廢 除 嘛 是 立 法 院 拿 掉 了 法 院 組 織 法 六 三 條 之 一 那 您 認 為 現 在 在 野 黨 所 說 的 要 再 次 恢 復 所 謂 的 在 野 國 會 特 徵 組 您 的 看 法 如 何\n\n11\n00:03:38,244 --> 00:04:06,362\n特 徵 組 是 屬 於 偵 查 的 一 個 機 關 那 我 想 以 在 憲 法 權 利 分 立 的 一 個 原 則 那 這 是 屬 於 司 法 權 的 這 一 環 所 以 國 會 沒 有 這 個 權 利 嗎 我 們 就 大 法 官 會 議 就 是 大 法 官 的 解 釋 對 這 部 分 有 清 楚 的 解 釋 所 以 沒 有 所 謂 什 麼 國 會 特 徵 組 成 立 之 必 要 更 沒 有 合 理 性 它 更 沒 有 合 憲 性 對 不 對\n\n12\n00:04:08,024 --> 00:04:15,043\n這 部 分 因 為 我 們 還 是 希 望 以 憲 法 的 權 力 分 立 原 則 來 看 這 件 事 情\n\n13\n00:04:15,911 --> 00:04:40,446\n我 都 不 需 要 再 論 述 過 去 特 徵 組 所 犯 下 的 相 關 的 違 反 通 保 法 啦 、 監 察 法 相 關 的 這 個 九 月 政 爭 的 事 情 我 都 不 用 再 贅 述 但 是 我 今 天 在 這 裡 呢 我 要 再 把 歷 史 文 件 拿 出 來 再 說 明 一 次 也 就 是 在 過 去 要 廢 除 特 徵 組 在 討 論 法 院 組 織 法 六 三 條 之 一 的 時 候 當 時 的 法 務 部 長 在 這 裡 他 提 出 了 五 大 反 對 特 徵 組 繼 續 存 在 的 理 由\n\n14\n00:04:43,388 --> 00:05:11,153\n是 說 呢 , 第 一 , 特 徵 組 影 響 檢 查 機 關 內 部 監 督 機 制 , 對 不 對 ? Y E S 好 , 那 當 初 的 第 二 點 宣 言 呢 違 反 行 政 法 上 機 關 與 職 務 不 兩 立 的 原 則 , 對 不 對 ? 依 舊 存 在 嘛 第 三 個 , 法 務 部 反 對 有 特 徵 組 是 因 為 呢 概 括 條 款 明 定 特 徵 組 的 事 務 管 轄 是 違 反 了 法 律 明 確 性 的 原 則 這 個 理 由 繼 續 存 在 嘛 , 對 不 對 ?\n\n15\n00:05:12,128 --> 00:05:41,031\n第 四 點 呢 檢 察 官 是 具 有 司 法 屬 性 所 以 沒 有 再 設 特 徵 組 的 必 要 對 不 對 所 以 這 部 分 政 策 已 經 決 定 了 最 後 一 項 呢 當 時 的 法 務 部 說 所 謂 的 特 徵 組 是 違 反 在 意 程 序 及 案 件 的 管 考 制 度 所 以 法 務 部 期 期 以 為 不 可 所 以 過 去 的 主 張 如 此 制 度 是 一 套 的 司 法 的 精 神 是 一 致 的\n\n16\n00:05:41,491 --> 00:05:54,703\n所 以 過 去 既 然 特 徵 組 被 廢 除 也 被 立 法 院 自 己 通 過 法 律 來 廢 除 的 話 現 在 更 沒 有 所 謂 成 立 國 會 在 野 特 徵 組 之 可 能 及 必 要 了\n\n17\n00:05:56,021 --> 00:05:56,521\n謝 謝 部 長 的 回 答 所 以 呢\n\n18\n00:06:19,039 --> 00:06:19,659\n謝 謝 您 今 天 回 應 我 的 一 些 主 張 跟 說 明\n\n19\n00:06:45,888 --> 00:06:49,423\n今 天 回 到 今 天 的 主 題 喔 強 化 社 會 安 全 網 好 下 一 頁\n\n20\n00:06:50,903 --> 00:07:18,345\n現 在 呢 我 跟 您 分 享 我 長 期 在 教 育 文 化 委 員 會 那 我 一 直 在 持 續 精 進 的 校 園 三 級 的 輔 導 機 制 就 是 三 級 心 輔 機 制 但 是 一 再 的 從 發 展 性 輔 導 到 介 入 性 輔 導 到 處 遇 性 輔 導 其 實 是 層 層 失 靈 的 因 為 幾 乎 有 六 成 以 上 有 自 殺 傾 向 或 是 他 真 正 自 殺 未 遂 或 真 的 是 不 幸 離 開 我 們 的 孩 子\n\n21\n00:07:19,737 --> 00:07:43,974\n6 成 以 上 是 沒 有 被 新 府 機 制 接 住 的 所 以 教 育 部 現 在 正 在 全 面 精 進 檢 視 現 在 的 校 園 三 級 輔 導 機 制 下 一 頁 那 今 天 的 主 題 矯 正 學 校 也 是 三 級 輔 導 機 制 就 部 長 您 認 為 現 在 的 矯 正 學 校 的 三 級 輔 導 機 制 它 當 然 適 用 跟 一 般 校 園 不 同 它 有 更 特 殊 性 的 需 求 現 行 的 三 級 機 制 您 認 為 運 作 得 宜 嗎\n\n22\n00:07:46,870 --> 00:07:59,904\n目 前 的 運 作 我 想 在 署 務 上 我 是 不 是 可 以 請 那 個 我 們 角 證 的 周 署 長 來 待 會 回 答 好 我 來 那 署 長 您 親 自 在 這 是 一 個 核 心 的 議 題 您 自 己 覺 得 運 作 得 宜 嗎\n\n23\n00:08:01,060 --> 00:08:21,728\n報 告 委 員 我 們 的 三 級 機 制 在 第 一 級 它 是 一 般 性 的 是 這 個 一 般 性 是 由 班 導 師 還 有 教 導 人 來 負 責 這 個 制 度 我 都 知 道 您 就 回 答 我 現 在 三 級 您 認 為 在 我 們 矯 正 學 校 在 三 級 的 機 制 裡 面 我 們 覺 得 輔 導 教 師 這 方 面 切 合 還 有 五 位 我 們 必 須 要 來 爭 取 來 補 強\n\n24\n00:08:25,009 --> 00:08:27,511\n我 再 次 來 對 應 教 育 部 的 現 在 正 在 修 學 生 輔 導 法 吳 思 瑤 提 案 希 望 能 夠 讓 大 學 裡 頭 的 學 生 輔 導 是 1 比 9 0 0\n\n25\n00:08:40,538 --> 00:08:58,590\n那 就 是 教 育 部 從 1 比 1 2 0 0 要 進 化 到 1 比 9 0 0 現 在 法 律 還 沒 修 正 過 但 是 都 用 公 務 預 算 去 補 強 它 那 現 在 呢 要 進 入 這 個 核 心 我 剛 剛 的 問 題 跟 命 題 就 是 說 現 在 矯 正 學 校 的 三 級 輔 導 機 制 有 沒 有 運 作 得 宜 他 就 要 關 乎 我 們 的 輔 導 老 師\n\n26\n00:09:00,424 --> 00:09:01,365\n來 , 署 長 , 您 再 一 次 。\n\n27\n00:09:21,540 --> 00:09:39,350\n來 按 一 下 那 個 鈕 新 社 人 員 不 足 過 1 8 名 等 一 下 輔 導 老 師 不 足 五 名 缺 五 名 嘛 新 理 師 、 社 工 師 缺 1 8 名 這 個 我 們 會 來 爭 取 那 特 教 呢 我 們 感 謝 國 教 組 特 教 呢 特 教 老 師 呢 特 教 足 夠 沒 問 題 而 且 是 剛 補 足 的 嘛 對 不 對\n\n28\n00:09:41,468 --> 00:10:08,850\n您 又 按 到 鈕 了 特 教 這 個 部 分 沒 問 題 所 以 這 是 重 中 之 重 部 長 您 剛 上 任 我 就 用 這 一 頁 來 告 訴 您 現 在 的 輔 導 老 師 還 缺 5 個 然 後 特 教 老 師 是 一 直 補 一 直 補 才 補 上 的 新 社 人 力 還 缺 1 8 個 這 是 新 任 部 長 很 重 要 的 工 作 矯 正 學 校 我 們 不 能 放 棄 任 何 一 個 孩 子 這 部 分 您 承 諾 要 多 久 可 以 來 補 強\n\n29\n00:10:10,129 --> 00:10:30,194\n我 們 盡 速 來 補 強 不 行 你 要 給 我 一 個 時 間 點 我 跟 你 講 喔 教 育 部 喔 還 沒 有 修 法 之 前 喔 就 用 預 算 的 方 式 去 來 補 強 喔 沒 有 修 法 先 用 預 算 的 方 式 來 補 強 喔 現 在 大 學 已 經 補 強 了 將 近 八 成 他 是 用 公 務 預 算 來 編 列 喔 你 可 以 突 破 原 額 的 限 制 你 現 在 問 題 是 出 債 聘 不 到 人 還 是 沒 有 錢\n\n30\n00:10:39,878 --> 00:10:42,659\n教 育 部 的 機 制 學 生 輔 導 法 是 要 修 法 的 還 沒 有 修 法 前 教 育 部 就 用 他 的 公 務 預 算\n\n31\n00:11:04,444 --> 00:11:23,967\n想 方 設 法 用 公 務 預 算 去 補 貼 學 校 補 強 他 的 心 腹 能 力 可 以 從 1 比 1 2 0 0 進 化 到 1 比 9 0 0 現 在 已 經 八 成 的 學 校 還 沒 修 法 前 他 自 己 就 用 國 家 給 的 預 算 來 補 強 矯 正 學 校 的 數 量 是 少 的 比 起 教 育 部 要 面 對 一 百 多 個 大 學\n\n32\n00:11:25,718 --> 00:11:27,540\n一 個 月 內 提 出 我 們 的 方 案 好 嗎 ?\n\n33\n00:11:43,672 --> 00:11:43,692\n吳 思 瑤\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5514\t6898\t謝謝主席 有請部長\n14665\t14685\t吳思瑤議員\n44905\t59495\t昨天最新的是國家人權委員會也發布了新聞稿他們以世界人權宣言以及公民與政治權利國際公約的相關規定很清楚的訂出三大反對國會擴權法案因為嚴重的違反國際人權公約\n66480\t86836\t第一項立法權過度擴張有侵害人民生活與隱私之餘這一點在說的是這一次國會擴權法案職權刑事法4748條以及50條之一對於國會調查權的擴充都會侵害人民的生活與隱私你同意這一點嗎\n88873\t108387\t我們認為那個整個一個法案的一個制定必須要遵守權利一個分立尤其是五權憲法是各有職長我們是希望能夠合乎到憲法的權利分立原則好那世界人權宣言第17條規定的任何人之財產不容無理剝奪這也是國家人權委員會所說的\n110589\t127696\t已經通過的立法院職權刑事法第47第48條就違反了要求人民提供跟隱私相關甚至營業秘密專利權利等等而且法案中沒有明定其必要性及合理性所以你也同意這個觀點嗎對不對這的確是有爭議\n130057\t148252\t是有爭議的第三個呢國家人權委員會說法案所通過的第50條之一到之四都嚴重的違反世界人權宣言的第10條、11條以及公民與政治權利國際公約第14條也就是接受調查的一般民眾\n149073\t167706\t不得拒絕出席這是現在的法案擴權的內容以及如果要請律師陪同的話還需要由主持的主席來同意所以國家人權委員會的主張認為這一點是強害人民獨立無私及平等公開之司法權您同意嗎\n168346\t187726\t的確有這個爭議好 謝謝部長的回答所以我們再一次在這裡透過論證國家人權委員會他以世界人權宣言以及我們所簽署的兩公約的原則都再一次的告訴我們這一次強行碾壓表決通過的國會擴權法案是違反人權的\n189227\t216861\t那下一個呢我要就教於您的就是昨天我聽到在野黨的黨編說要成立國會的在野特徵組部長特徵組2007成立2017廢除嘛是立法院拿掉了法院組織法六三條之一那您認為現在在野黨所說的要再次恢復所謂的在野國會特徵組您的看法如何\n218244\t246362\t特徵組是屬於偵查的一個機關那我想以在憲法權利分立的一個原則那這是屬於司法權的這一環所以國會沒有這個權利嗎我們就大法官會議就是大法官的解釋對這部分有清楚的解釋所以沒有所謂什麼國會特徵組成立之必要更沒有合理性它更沒有合憲性 對不對\n248024\t255043\t這部分因為我們還是希望以憲法的權力分立原則來看這件事情\n255911\t280446\t我都不需要再論述過去特徵組所犯下的相關的違反通保法啦、監察法相關的這個九月政爭的事情我都不用再贅述但是我今天在這裡呢我要再把歷史文件拿出來再說明一次也就是在過去要廢除特徵組在討論法院組織法六三條之一的時候當時的法務部長在這裡他提出了五大反對特徵組繼續存在的理由\n283388\t311153\t是說呢,第一,特徵組影響檢查機關內部監督機制,對不對?YES好,那當初的第二點宣言呢違反行政法上機關與職務不兩立的原則,對不對?依舊存在嘛第三個,法務部反對有特徵組是因為呢概括條款明定特徵組的事務管轄是違反了法律明確性的原則這個理由繼續存在嘛,對不對?\n312128\t341031\t第四點呢檢察官是具有司法屬性所以沒有再設特徵組的必要對不對所以這部分政策已經決定了最後一項呢當時的法務部說所謂的特徵組是違反在意程序及案件的管考制度所以法務部期期以為不可所以過去的主張如此制度是一套的司法的精神是一致的\n341491\t354703\t所以過去既然特徵組被廢除也被立法院自己通過法律來廢除的話現在更沒有所謂成立國會在野特徵組之可能及必要了\n356021\t356521\t謝謝部長的回答所以呢\n379039\t379659\t謝謝您今天回應我的一些主張跟說明\n405888\t409423\t今天回到今天的主題喔強化社會安全網好下一頁\n410903\t438345\t現在呢我跟您分享我長期在教育文化委員會那我一直在持續精進的校園三級的輔導機制就是三級心輔機制但是一再的從發展性輔導到介入性輔導到處遇性輔導其實是層層失靈的因為幾乎有六成以上有自殺傾向或是他真正自殺未遂或真的是不幸離開我們的孩子\n439737\t463974\t6成以上是沒有被新府機制接住的所以教育部現在正在全面精進檢視現在的校園三級輔導機制下一頁那今天的主題矯正學校也是三級輔導機制就部長您認為現在的矯正學校的三級輔導機制它當然適用跟一般校園不同它有更特殊性的需求現行的三級機制您認為運作得宜嗎\n466870\t479904\t目前的運作我想在署務上我是不是可以請那個我們角證的周署長來待會回答好我來那署長您親自在這是一個核心的議題您自己覺得運作得宜嗎\n481060\t501728\t報告委員我們的三級機制在第一級它是一般性的是這個一般性是由班導師還有教導人來負責這個制度我都知道您就回答我現在三級您認為在我們矯正學校在三級的機制裡面我們覺得輔導教師這方面切合還有五位我們必須要來爭取來補強\n505009\t507511\t我再次來對應教育部的現在正在修學生輔導法吳思瑤提案希望能夠讓大學裡頭的學生輔導是1比900\n520538\t538590\t那就是教育部從1比1200要進化到1比900現在法律還沒修正過但是都用公務預算去補強它那現在呢要進入這個核心我剛剛的問題跟命題就是說現在矯正學校的三級輔導機制有沒有運作得宜他就要關乎我們的輔導老師\n540424\t541365\t來,署長,您再一次。\n561540\t579350\t來按一下那個鈕新社人員不足過18名等一下 輔導老師不足五名 缺五名嘛新理師、社工師缺18名這個我們會來爭取那特教呢我們感謝國教組特教呢 特教老師呢特教足夠 沒問題而且是剛補足的嘛 對不對\n581468\t608850\t您又按到鈕了特教這個部分沒問題所以這是重中之重部長您剛上任我就用這一頁來告訴您現在的輔導老師還缺5個然後特教老師是一直補一直補才補上的新社人力還缺18個這是新任部長很重要的工作矯正學校我們不能放棄任何一個孩子這部分您承諾要多久可以來補強\n610129\t630194\t我們盡速來補強不行 你要給我一個時間點我跟你講喔 教育部喔還沒有修法之前喔就用預算的方式去來補強喔沒有修法先用預算的方式來補強喔現在大學已經補強了將近八成他是用公務預算來編列喔你可以突破原額的限制你現在問題是出債 聘不到人還是沒有錢\n639878\t642659\t教育部的機制學生輔導法是要修法的還沒有修法前教育部就用他的公務預算\n664444\t683967\t想方設法用公務預算去補貼學校補強他的心腹能力可以從1比1200進化到1比900現在已經八成的學校還沒修法前他自己就用國家給的預算來補強矯正學校的數量是少的比起教育部要面對一百多個大學\n685718\t687540\t一個月內提出我們的方案好嗎?\n703672\t703692\t吳思瑤\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請部長\n吳思瑤議員\n昨天最新的是國家人權委員會也發布了新聞稿他們以世界人權宣言以及公民與政治權利國際公約的相關規定很清楚的訂出三大反對國會擴權法案因為嚴重的違反國際人權公約\n第一項立法權過度擴張有侵害人民生活與隱私之餘這一點在說的是這一次國會擴權法案職權刑事法4748條以及50條之一對於國會調查權的擴充都會侵害人民的生活與隱私你同意這一點嗎\n我們認為那個整個一個法案的一個制定必須要遵守權利一個分立尤其是五權憲法是各有職長我們是希望能夠合乎到憲法的權利分立原則好那世界人權宣言第17條規定的任何人之財產不容無理剝奪這也是國家人權委員會所說的\n已經通過的立法院職權刑事法第47第48條就違反了要求人民提供跟隱私相關甚至營業秘密專利權利等等而且法案中沒有明定其必要性及合理性所以你也同意這個觀點嗎對不對這的確是有爭議\n是有爭議的第三個呢國家人權委員會說法案所通過的第50條之一到之四都嚴重的違反世界人權宣言的第10條、11條以及公民與政治權利國際公約第14條也就是接受調查的一般民眾\n不得拒絕出席這是現在的法案擴權的內容以及如果要請律師陪同的話還需要由主持的主席來同意所以國家人權委員會的主張認為這一點是強害人民獨立無私及平等公開之司法權您同意嗎\n的確有這個爭議好 謝謝部長的回答所以我們再一次在這裡透過論證國家人權委員會他以世界人權宣言以及我們所簽署的兩公約的原則都再一次的告訴我們這一次強行碾壓表決通過的國會擴權法案是違反人權的\n那下一個呢我要就教於您的就是昨天我聽到在野黨的黨編說要成立國會的在野特徵組部長特徵組2007成立2017廢除嘛是立法院拿掉了法院組織法六三條之一那您認為現在在野黨所說的要再次恢復所謂的在野國會特徵組您的看法如何\n特徵組是屬於偵查的一個機關那我想以在憲法權利分立的一個原則那這是屬於司法權的這一環所以國會沒有這個權利嗎我們就大法官會議就是大法官的解釋對這部分有清楚的解釋所以沒有所謂什麼國會特徵組成立之必要更沒有合理性它更沒有合憲性 對不對\n這部分因為我們還是希望以憲法的權力分立原則來看這件事情\n我都不需要再論述過去特徵組所犯下的相關的違反通保法啦、監察法相關的這個九月政爭的事情我都不用再贅述但是我今天在這裡呢我要再把歷史文件拿出來再說明一次也就是在過去要廢除特徵組在討論法院組織法六三條之一的時候當時的法務部長在這裡他提出了五大反對特徵組繼續存在的理由\n是說呢,第一,特徵組影響檢查機關內部監督機制,對不對?YES好,那當初的第二點宣言呢違反行政法上機關與職務不兩立的原則,對不對?依舊存在嘛第三個,法務部反對有特徵組是因為呢概括條款明定特徵組的事務管轄是違反了法律明確性的原則這個理由繼續存在嘛,對不對?\n第四點呢檢察官是具有司法屬性所以沒有再設特徵組的必要對不對所以這部分政策已經決定了最後一項呢當時的法務部說所謂的特徵組是違反在意程序及案件的管考制度所以法務部期期以為不可所以過去的主張如此制度是一套的司法的精神是一致的\n所以過去既然特徵組被廢除也被立法院自己通過法律來廢除的話現在更沒有所謂成立國會在野特徵組之可能及必要了\n謝謝部長的回答所以呢\n謝謝您今天回應我的一些主張跟說明\n今天回到今天的主題喔強化社會安全網好下一頁\n現在呢我跟您分享我長期在教育文化委員會那我一直在持續精進的校園三級的輔導機制就是三級心輔機制但是一再的從發展性輔導到介入性輔導到處遇性輔導其實是層層失靈的因為幾乎有六成以上有自殺傾向或是他真正自殺未遂或真的是不幸離開我們的孩子\n6成以上是沒有被新府機制接住的所以教育部現在正在全面精進檢視現在的校園三級輔導機制下一頁那今天的主題矯正學校也是三級輔導機制就部長您認為現在的矯正學校的三級輔導機制它當然適用跟一般校園不同它有更特殊性的需求現行的三級機制您認為運作得宜嗎\n目前的運作我想在署務上我是不是可以請那個我們角證的周署長來待會回答好我來那署長您親自在這是一個核心的議題您自己覺得運作得宜嗎\n報告委員我們的三級機制在第一級它是一般性的是這個一般性是由班導師還有教導人來負責這個制度我都知道您就回答我現在三級您認為在我們矯正學校在三級的機制裡面我們覺得輔導教師這方面切合還有五位我們必須要來爭取來補強\n我再次來對應教育部的現在正在修學生輔導法吳思瑤提案希望能夠讓大學裡頭的學生輔導是1比900\n那就是教育部從1比1200要進化到1比900現在法律還沒修正過但是都用公務預算去補強它那現在呢要進入這個核心我剛剛的問題跟命題就是說現在矯正學校的三級輔導機制有沒有運作得宜他就要關乎我們的輔導老師\n來,署長,您再一次。\n來按一下那個鈕新社人員不足過18名等一下 輔導老師不足五名 缺五名嘛新理師、社工師缺18名這個我們會來爭取那特教呢我們感謝國教組特教呢 特教老師呢特教足夠 沒問題而且是剛補足的嘛 對不對\n您又按到鈕了特教這個部分沒問題所以這是重中之重部長您剛上任我就用這一頁來告訴您現在的輔導老師還缺5個然後特教老師是一直補一直補才補上的新社人力還缺18個這是新任部長很重要的工作矯正學校我們不能放棄任何一個孩子這部分您承諾要多久可以來補強\n我們盡速來補強不行 你要給我一個時間點我跟你講喔 教育部喔還沒有修法之前喔就用預算的方式去來補強喔沒有修法先用預算的方式來補強喔現在大學已經補強了將近八成他是用公務預算來編列喔你可以突破原額的限制你現在問題是出債 聘不到人還是沒有錢\n教育部的機制學生輔導法是要修法的還沒有修法前教育部就用他的公務預算\n想方設法用公務預算去補貼學校補強他的心腹能力可以從1比1200進化到1比900現在已經八成的學校還沒修法前他自己就用國家給的預算來補強矯正學校的數量是少的比起教育部要面對一百多個大學\n一個月內提出我們的方案好嗎?\n吳思瑤\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.514 --> 00:06.898\n謝 謝 主 席 有 請 部 長\n\n00:14.665 --> 00:14.685\n吳 思 瑤 議 員\n\n00:44.905 --> 00:59.495\n昨 天 最 新 的 是 國 家 人 權 委 員 會 也 發 布 了 新 聞 稿 他 們 以 世 界 人 權 宣 言 以 及 公 民 與 政 治 權 利 國 際 公 約 的 相 關 規 定 很 清 楚 的 訂 出 三 大 反 對 國 會 擴 權 法 案 因 為 嚴 重 的 違 反 國 際 人 權 公 約\n\n01:06.480 --> 01:26.836\n第 一 項 立 法 權 過 度 擴 張 有 侵 害 人 民 生 活 與 隱 私 之 餘 這 一 點 在 說 的 是 這 一 次 國 會 擴 權 法 案 職 權 刑 事 法 4 7 4 8 條 以 及 5 0 條 之 一 對 於 國 會 調 查 權 的 擴 充 都 會 侵 害 人 民 的 生 活 與 隱 私 你 同 意 這 一 點 嗎\n\n01:28.873 --> 01:48.387\n我 們 認 為 那 個 整 個 一 個 法 案 的 一 個 制 定 必 須 要 遵 守 權 利 一 個 分 立 尤 其 是 五 權 憲 法 是 各 有 職 長 我 們 是 希 望 能 夠 合 乎 到 憲 法 的 權 利 分 立 原 則 好 那 世 界 人 權 宣 言 第 1 7 條 規 定 的 任 何 人 之 財 產 不 容 無 理 剝 奪 這 也 是 國 家 人 權 委 員 會 所 說 的\n\n01:50.589 --> 02:07.696\n已 經 通 過 的 立 法 院 職 權 刑 事 法 第 4 7 第 4 8 條 就 違 反 了 要 求 人 民 提 供 跟 隱 私 相 關 甚 至 營 業 秘 密 專 利 權 利 等 等 而 且 法 案 中 沒 有 明 定 其 必 要 性 及 合 理 性 所 以 你 也 同 意 這 個 觀 點 嗎 對 不 對 這 的 確 是 有 爭 議\n\n02:10.057 --> 02:28.252\n是 有 爭 議 的 第 三 個 呢 國 家 人 權 委 員 會 說 法 案 所 通 過 的 第 5 0 條 之 一 到 之 四 都 嚴 重 的 違 反 世 界 人 權 宣 言 的 第 1 0 條 、 1 1 條 以 及 公 民 與 政 治 權 利 國 際 公 約 第 1 4 條 也 就 是 接 受 調 查 的 一 般 民 眾\n\n02:29.073 --> 02:47.706\n不 得 拒 絕 出 席 這 是 現 在 的 法 案 擴 權 的 內 容 以 及 如 果 要 請 律 師 陪 同 的 話 還 需 要 由 主 持 的 主 席 來 同 意 所 以 國 家 人 權 委 員 會 的 主 張 認 為 這 一 點 是 強 害 人 民 獨 立 無 私 及 平 等 公 開 之 司 法 權 您 同 意 嗎\n\n02:48.346 --> 03:07.726\n的 確 有 這 個 爭 議 好 謝 謝 部 長 的 回 答 所 以 我 們 再 一 次 在 這 裡 透 過 論 證 國 家 人 權 委 員 會 他 以 世 界 人 權 宣 言 以 及 我 們 所 簽 署 的 兩 公 約 的 原 則 都 再 一 次 的 告 訴 我 們 這 一 次 強 行 碾 壓 表 決 通 過 的 國 會 擴 權 法 案 是 違 反 人 權 的\n\n03:09.227 --> 03:36.861\n那 下 一 個 呢 我 要 就 教 於 您 的 就 是 昨 天 我 聽 到 在 野 黨 的 黨 編 說 要 成 立 國 會 的 在 野 特 徵 組 部 長 特 徵 組 2 0 0 7 成 立 2 0 1 7 廢 除 嘛 是 立 法 院 拿 掉 了 法 院 組 織 法 六 三 條 之 一 那 您 認 為 現 在 在 野 黨 所 說 的 要 再 次 恢 復 所 謂 的 在 野 國 會 特 徵 組 您 的 看 法 如 何\n\n03:38.244 --> 04:06.362\n特 徵 組 是 屬 於 偵 查 的 一 個 機 關 那 我 想 以 在 憲 法 權 利 分 立 的 一 個 原 則 那 這 是 屬 於 司 法 權 的 這 一 環 所 以 國 會 沒 有 這 個 權 利 嗎 我 們 就 大 法 官 會 議 就 是 大 法 官 的 解 釋 對 這 部 分 有 清 楚 的 解 釋 所 以 沒 有 所 謂 什 麼 國 會 特 徵 組 成 立 之 必 要 更 沒 有 合 理 性 它 更 沒 有 合 憲 性 對 不 對\n\n04:08.024 --> 04:15.043\n這 部 分 因 為 我 們 還 是 希 望 以 憲 法 的 權 力 分 立 原 則 來 看 這 件 事 情\n\n04:15.911 --> 04:40.446\n我 都 不 需 要 再 論 述 過 去 特 徵 組 所 犯 下 的 相 關 的 違 反 通 保 法 啦 、 監 察 法 相 關 的 這 個 九 月 政 爭 的 事 情 我 都 不 用 再 贅 述 但 是 我 今 天 在 這 裡 呢 我 要 再 把 歷 史 文 件 拿 出 來 再 說 明 一 次 也 就 是 在 過 去 要 廢 除 特 徵 組 在 討 論 法 院 組 織 法 六 三 條 之 一 的 時 候 當 時 的 法 務 部 長 在 這 裡 他 提 出 了 五 大 反 對 特 徵 組 繼 續 存 在 的 理 由\n\n04:43.388 --> 05:11.153\n是 說 呢 , 第 一 , 特 徵 組 影 響 檢 查 機 關 內 部 監 督 機 制 , 對 不 對 ? Y E S 好 , 那 當 初 的 第 二 點 宣 言 呢 違 反 行 政 法 上 機 關 與 職 務 不 兩 立 的 原 則 , 對 不 對 ? 依 舊 存 在 嘛 第 三 個 , 法 務 部 反 對 有 特 徵 組 是 因 為 呢 概 括 條 款 明 定 特 徵 組 的 事 務 管 轄 是 違 反 了 法 律 明 確 性 的 原 則 這 個 理 由 繼 續 存 在 嘛 , 對 不 對 ?\n\n05:12.128 --> 05:41.031\n第 四 點 呢 檢 察 官 是 具 有 司 法 屬 性 所 以 沒 有 再 設 特 徵 組 的 必 要 對 不 對 所 以 這 部 分 政 策 已 經 決 定 了 最 後 一 項 呢 當 時 的 法 務 部 說 所 謂 的 特 徵 組 是 違 反 在 意 程 序 及 案 件 的 管 考 制 度 所 以 法 務 部 期 期 以 為 不 可 所 以 過 去 的 主 張 如 此 制 度 是 一 套 的 司 法 的 精 神 是 一 致 的\n\n05:41.491 --> 05:54.703\n所 以 過 去 既 然 特 徵 組 被 廢 除 也 被 立 法 院 自 己 通 過 法 律 來 廢 除 的 話 現 在 更 沒 有 所 謂 成 立 國 會 在 野 特 徵 組 之 可 能 及 必 要 了\n\n05:56.021 --> 05:56.521\n謝 謝 部 長 的 回 答 所 以 呢\n\n06:19.039 --> 06:19.659\n謝 謝 您 今 天 回 應 我 的 一 些 主 張 跟 說 明\n\n06:45.888 --> 06:49.423\n今 天 回 到 今 天 的 主 題 喔 強 化 社 會 安 全 網 好 下 一 頁\n\n06:50.903 --> 07:18.345\n現 在 呢 我 跟 您 分 享 我 長 期 在 教 育 文 化 委 員 會 那 我 一 直 在 持 續 精 進 的 校 園 三 級 的 輔 導 機 制 就 是 三 級 心 輔 機 制 但 是 一 再 的 從 發 展 性 輔 導 到 介 入 性 輔 導 到 處 遇 性 輔 導 其 實 是 層 層 失 靈 的 因 為 幾 乎 有 六 成 以 上 有 自 殺 傾 向 或 是 他 真 正 自 殺 未 遂 或 真 的 是 不 幸 離 開 我 們 的 孩 子\n\n07:19.737 --> 07:43.974\n6 成 以 上 是 沒 有 被 新 府 機 制 接 住 的 所 以 教 育 部 現 在 正 在 全 面 精 進 檢 視 現 在 的 校 園 三 級 輔 導 機 制 下 一 頁 那 今 天 的 主 題 矯 正 學 校 也 是 三 級 輔 導 機 制 就 部 長 您 認 為 現 在 的 矯 正 學 校 的 三 級 輔 導 機 制 它 當 然 適 用 跟 一 般 校 園 不 同 它 有 更 特 殊 性 的 需 求 現 行 的 三 級 機 制 您 認 為 運 作 得 宜 嗎\n\n07:46.870 --> 07:59.904\n目 前 的 運 作 我 想 在 署 務 上 我 是 不 是 可 以 請 那 個 我 們 角 證 的 周 署 長 來 待 會 回 答 好 我 來 那 署 長 您 親 自 在 這 是 一 個 核 心 的 議 題 您 自 己 覺 得 運 作 得 宜 嗎\n\n08:01.060 --> 08:21.728\n報 告 委 員 我 們 的 三 級 機 制 在 第 一 級 它 是 一 般 性 的 是 這 個 一 般 性 是 由 班 導 師 還 有 教 導 人 來 負 責 這 個 制 度 我 都 知 道 您 就 回 答 我 現 在 三 級 您 認 為 在 我 們 矯 正 學 校 在 三 級 的 機 制 裡 面 我 們 覺 得 輔 導 教 師 這 方 面 切 合 還 有 五 位 我 們 必 須 要 來 爭 取 來 補 強\n\n08:25.009 --> 08:27.511\n我 再 次 來 對 應 教 育 部 的 現 在 正 在 修 學 生 輔 導 法 吳 思 瑤 提 案 希 望 能 夠 讓 大 學 裡 頭 的 學 生 輔 導 是 1 比 9 0 0\n\n08:40.538 --> 08:58.590\n那 就 是 教 育 部 從 1 比 1 2 0 0 要 進 化 到 1 比 9 0 0 現 在 法 律 還 沒 修 正 過 但 是 都 用 公 務 預 算 去 補 強 它 那 現 在 呢 要 進 入 這 個 核 心 我 剛 剛 的 問 題 跟 命 題 就 是 說 現 在 矯 正 學 校 的 三 級 輔 導 機 制 有 沒 有 運 作 得 宜 他 就 要 關 乎 我 們 的 輔 導 老 師\n\n09:00.424 --> 09:01.365\n來 , 署 長 , 您 再 一 次 。\n\n09:21.540 --> 09:39.350\n來 按 一 下 那 個 鈕 新 社 人 員 不 足 過 1 8 名 等 一 下 輔 導 老 師 不 足 五 名 缺 五 名 嘛 新 理 師 、 社 工 師 缺 1 8 名 這 個 我 們 會 來 爭 取 那 特 教 呢 我 們 感 謝 國 教 組 特 教 呢 特 教 老 師 呢 特 教 足 夠 沒 問 題 而 且 是 剛 補 足 的 嘛 對 不 對\n\n09:41.468 --> 10:08.850\n您 又 按 到 鈕 了 特 教 這 個 部 分 沒 問 題 所 以 這 是 重 中 之 重 部 長 您 剛 上 任 我 就 用 這 一 頁 來 告 訴 您 現 在 的 輔 導 老 師 還 缺 5 個 然 後 特 教 老 師 是 一 直 補 一 直 補 才 補 上 的 新 社 人 力 還 缺 1 8 個 這 是 新 任 部 長 很 重 要 的 工 作 矯 正 學 校 我 們 不 能 放 棄 任 何 一 個 孩 子 這 部 分 您 承 諾 要 多 久 可 以 來 補 強\n\n10:10.129 --> 10:30.194\n我 們 盡 速 來 補 強 不 行 你 要 給 我 一 個 時 間 點 我 跟 你 講 喔 教 育 部 喔 還 沒 有 修 法 之 前 喔 就 用 預 算 的 方 式 去 來 補 強 喔 沒 有 修 法 先 用 預 算 的 方 式 來 補 強 喔 現 在 大 學 已 經 補 強 了 將 近 八 成 他 是 用 公 務 預 算 來 編 列 喔 你 可 以 突 破 原 額 的 限 制 你 現 在 問 題 是 出 債 聘 不 到 人 還 是 沒 有 錢\n\n10:39.878 --> 10:42.659\n教 育 部 的 機 制 學 生 輔 導 法 是 要 修 法 的 還 沒 有 修 法 前 教 育 部 就 用 他 的 公 務 預 算\n\n11:04.444 --> 11:23.967\n想 方 設 法 用 公 務 預 算 去 補 貼 學 校 補 強 他 的 心 腹 能 力 可 以 從 1 比 1 2 0 0 進 化 到 1 比 9 0 0 現 在 已 經 八 成 的 學 校 還 沒 修 法 前 他 自 己 就 用 國 家 給 的 預 算 來 補 強 矯 正 學 校 的 數 量 是 少 的 比 起 教 育 部 要 面 對 一 百 多 個 大 學\n\n11:25.718 --> 11:27.540\n一 個 月 內 提 出 我 們 的 方 案 好 嗎 ?\n\n11:43.672 --> 11:43.692\n吳 思 瑤\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.514,"end":6.898,"text":"謝謝主席 有請部長"},{"start":14.665,"end":14.685,"text":"吳思瑤議員"},{"start":44.905,"end":59.495,"text":"昨天最新的是國家人權委員會也發布了新聞稿他們以世界人權宣言以及公民與政治權利國際公約的相關規定很清楚的訂出三大反對國會擴權法案因為嚴重的違反國際人權公約"},{"start":66.48,"end":86.836,"text":"第一項立法權過度擴張有侵害人民生活與隱私之餘這一點在說的是這一次國會擴權法案職權刑事法4748條以及50條之一對於國會調查權的擴充都會侵害人民的生活與隱私你同意這一點嗎"},{"start":88.873,"end":108.387,"text":"我們認為那個整個一個法案的一個制定必須要遵守權利一個分立尤其是五權憲法是各有職長我們是希望能夠合乎到憲法的權利分立原則好那世界人權宣言第17條規定的任何人之財產不容無理剝奪這也是國家人權委員會所說的"},{"start":110.589,"end":127.696,"text":"已經通過的立法院職權刑事法第47第48條就違反了要求人民提供跟隱私相關甚至營業秘密專利權利等等而且法案中沒有明定其必要性及合理性所以你也同意這個觀點嗎對不對這的確是有爭議"},{"start":130.057,"end":148.252,"text":"是有爭議的第三個呢國家人權委員會說法案所通過的第50條之一到之四都嚴重的違反世界人權宣言的第10條、11條以及公民與政治權利國際公約第14條也就是接受調查的一般民眾"},{"start":149.073,"end":167.706,"text":"不得拒絕出席這是現在的法案擴權的內容以及如果要請律師陪同的話還需要由主持的主席來同意所以國家人權委員會的主張認為這一點是強害人民獨立無私及平等公開之司法權您同意嗎"},{"start":168.346,"end":187.726,"text":"的確有這個爭議好 謝謝部長的回答所以我們再一次在這裡透過論證國家人權委員會他以世界人權宣言以及我們所簽署的兩公約的原則都再一次的告訴我們這一次強行碾壓表決通過的國會擴權法案是違反人權的"},{"start":189.227,"end":216.861,"text":"那下一個呢我要就教於您的就是昨天我聽到在野黨的黨編說要成立國會的在野特徵組部長特徵組2007成立2017廢除嘛是立法院拿掉了法院組織法六三條之一那您認為現在在野黨所說的要再次恢復所謂的在野國會特徵組您的看法如何"},{"start":218.244,"end":246.362,"text":"特徵組是屬於偵查的一個機關那我想以在憲法權利分立的一個原則那這是屬於司法權的這一環所以國會沒有這個權利嗎我們就大法官會議就是大法官的解釋對這部分有清楚的解釋所以沒有所謂什麼國會特徵組成立之必要更沒有合理性它更沒有合憲性 對不對"},{"start":248.024,"end":255.043,"text":"這部分因為我們還是希望以憲法的權力分立原則來看這件事情"},{"start":255.911,"end":280.446,"text":"我都不需要再論述過去特徵組所犯下的相關的違反通保法啦、監察法相關的這個九月政爭的事情我都不用再贅述但是我今天在這裡呢我要再把歷史文件拿出來再說明一次也就是在過去要廢除特徵組在討論法院組織法六三條之一的時候當時的法務部長在這裡他提出了五大反對特徵組繼續存在的理由"},{"start":283.388,"end":311.153,"text":"是說呢,第一,特徵組影響檢查機關內部監督機制,對不對?YES好,那當初的第二點宣言呢違反行政法上機關與職務不兩立的原則,對不對?依舊存在嘛第三個,法務部反對有特徵組是因為呢概括條款明定特徵組的事務管轄是違反了法律明確性的原則這個理由繼續存在嘛,對不對?"},{"start":312.128,"end":341.031,"text":"第四點呢檢察官是具有司法屬性所以沒有再設特徵組的必要對不對所以這部分政策已經決定了最後一項呢當時的法務部說所謂的特徵組是違反在意程序及案件的管考制度所以法務部期期以為不可所以過去的主張如此制度是一套的司法的精神是一致的"},{"start":341.491,"end":354.703,"text":"所以過去既然特徵組被廢除也被立法院自己通過法律來廢除的話現在更沒有所謂成立國會在野特徵組之可能及必要了"},{"start":356.021,"end":356.521,"text":"謝謝部長的回答所以呢"},{"start":379.039,"end":379.659,"text":"謝謝您今天回應我的一些主張跟說明"},{"start":405.888,"end":409.423,"text":"今天回到今天的主題喔強化社會安全網好下一頁"},{"start":410.903,"end":438.345,"text":"現在呢我跟您分享我長期在教育文化委員會那我一直在持續精進的校園三級的輔導機制就是三級心輔機制但是一再的從發展性輔導到介入性輔導到處遇性輔導其實是層層失靈的因為幾乎有六成以上有自殺傾向或是他真正自殺未遂或真的是不幸離開我們的孩子"},{"start":439.737,"end":463.974,"text":"6成以上是沒有被新府機制接住的所以教育部現在正在全面精進檢視現在的校園三級輔導機制下一頁那今天的主題矯正學校也是三級輔導機制就部長您認為現在的矯正學校的三級輔導機制它當然適用跟一般校園不同它有更特殊性的需求現行的三級機制您認為運作得宜嗎"},{"start":466.87,"end":479.904,"text":"目前的運作我想在署務上我是不是可以請那個我們角證的周署長來待會回答好我來那署長您親自在這是一個核心的議題您自己覺得運作得宜嗎"},{"start":481.06,"end":501.728,"text":"報告委員我們的三級機制在第一級它是一般性的是這個一般性是由班導師還有教導人來負責這個制度我都知道您就回答我現在三級您認為在我們矯正學校在三級的機制裡面我們覺得輔導教師這方面切合還有五位我們必須要來爭取來補強"},{"start":505.009,"end":507.511,"text":"我再次來對應教育部的現在正在修學生輔導法吳思瑤提案希望能夠讓大學裡頭的學生輔導是1比900"},{"start":520.538,"end":538.59,"text":"那就是教育部從1比1200要進化到1比900現在法律還沒修正過但是都用公務預算去補強它那現在呢要進入這個核心我剛剛的問題跟命題就是說現在矯正學校的三級輔導機制有沒有運作得宜他就要關乎我們的輔導老師"},{"start":540.424,"end":541.365,"text":"來,署長,您再一次。"},{"start":561.54,"end":579.35,"text":"來按一下那個鈕新社人員不足過18名等一下 輔導老師不足五名 缺五名嘛新理師、社工師缺18名這個我們會來爭取那特教呢我們感謝國教組特教呢 特教老師呢特教足夠 沒問題而且是剛補足的嘛 對不對"},{"start":581.468,"end":608.85,"text":"您又按到鈕了特教這個部分沒問題所以這是重中之重部長您剛上任我就用這一頁來告訴您現在的輔導老師還缺5個然後特教老師是一直補一直補才補上的新社人力還缺18個這是新任部長很重要的工作矯正學校我們不能放棄任何一個孩子這部分您承諾要多久可以來補強"},{"start":610.129,"end":630.194,"text":"我們盡速來補強不行 你要給我一個時間點我跟你講喔 教育部喔還沒有修法之前喔就用預算的方式去來補強喔沒有修法先用預算的方式來補強喔現在大學已經補強了將近八成他是用公務預算來編列喔你可以突破原額的限制你現在問題是出債 聘不到人還是沒有錢"},{"start":639.878,"end":642.659,"text":"教育部的機制學生輔導法是要修法的還沒有修法前教育部就用他的公務預算"},{"start":664.444,"end":683.967,"text":"想方設法用公務預算去補貼學校補強他的心腹能力可以從1比1200進化到1比900現在已經八成的學校還沒修法前他自己就用國家給的預算來補強矯正學校的數量是少的比起教育部要面對一百多個大學"},{"start":685.718,"end":687.54,"text":"一個月內提出我們的方案好嗎?"},{"start":703.672,"end":703.692,"text":"吳思瑤"}]}}}}