{"id":153386,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153386","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/bbbc431469b8aeba23562f40587a598a1766e5648a1e6b71446d6a815e9137444dc9c27a7575cebe5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"11:33:37 - 11:40:53","影片長度":"00:07:16","會議時間":"2024-05-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【5月27日、5月29日及5月30日三天一次會】）","date":"2024-05-30","start_time":"2024-05-30T11:33:37+08:00","end_time":"2024-05-30T11:40:53+08:00","duration":436,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-14"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":591,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（11時33分）謝謝主席，麻煩我們劉主委，另外還有幾位處長，綜合規劃處、經濟發展處及產業發展處，麻煩也隨著主委一起上台。"],["主席：請三位處長也一併上台，主委，請上台。"],["王委員鴻薇：主委好。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：我呼應一下剛才牛煦庭委員的質詢內容，其實在這次新政府的內閣中，包含主委、數發部部長以及經濟部部長被外界認為是具有亮點的閣員安排，但是不可諱言的，幾位新的閣員，基本上，你們的資歷都非常好、非常亮眼，卻都是屬於高大上的產業，感覺沒有什麼庶民經濟的相關經驗，所以我把它具體而微的提出來，也請三位處長一起來聽一下。","昨天主計處發布了一項統計資料，我個人認為這是對於庶民經濟非常重要的資料，因為他們是固定的調查臺灣的攤販數、交易金額及利潤。出現了一個地下經濟的陣痛期，我不曉得陣痛期是否會變成長痛期，我們臺灣的攤販數在三十五年來出現了家數下降最多、利潤也下降最多的狀況，我們對於這個是可以理解，因為包含網購、電子支付及外賣等等，一定會衝擊這些攤販。今天我們在講AI產業、科技產業或淨零排放等等之類，但是對於這麼多就業人口攤販數的急遽下降，政府可不可以想辦法提供一些協助？","好，我直接講，在我擔任臺北市議員的時候，其實我們在臺北市做了一個非常大的努力，讓傳統市場的攤販能夠採用電子支付，所以臺北市所有公有市場現在電子支付的普及率已經超過90%，非常多！當然最近傳出使用率偏低，我認為是一定的，因為去傳統市場的阿公阿嬤還是習慣使用現金，但是在這樣的大趨勢之下，傳統市場的攤販轉型是必須要做的，如果現在不做，以後就會後悔，因為它就會陸續的退出而使社會福利的負擔增加。","我要講的是除了臺北市之外，很多縣市可能也有在做，但是攤販可能非常的反彈，第一個是他要付手續費，讓他覺得自己的成本增加，另外一個是他很怕國稅局會來查稅，等等之類的，所以攤販會有一些反彈或抗拒，現在除了臺北市之外，其實它推行得並不是很好。但是我覺得這些攤販轉型是必須要做的，像現在無論外賣也好或網購也好，越來越多，我舉例來講，臺北市就是因為有大力推動攤販的電子支付，包括臺北市的中山市場、松江市場，這些都是我的選區，它也有傳統市場，但是在外賣方面是全部都上架，並不是只有全聯上架，你要買生鮮食品並不是只有全聯的選擇，也可以在我們傳統市場買到更好的生鮮食品。譬如南門市場，這個當然也很有名。如果未來我們能夠推動市場攤販成功轉型，這樣的一個大浪潮會使得我們非常好的服務業、非常好的攤販能夠繼續在市場存活，所以這一點非常重要。","我在這裡也要拜託主委，除了高大上的產業之外，也能夠關心我們的傳統產業，怎麼樣讓它搭上這個便車，轉型勢在必行，當然經濟部是有一些輔導辦法，但是看起來輔導不力啊！因為有些攤商可能還在抗拒中。","另外，我要花一點點時間，不好意思喔！之前主委接受媒體採訪時談到核電的重要性，你也談到氫電的重要性，但是我也想讓主委了解，國際能源署預估2050年全球氫電的占比是1%，而國發會為了要符合我們在2050的淨零排放目標，做出來的氫電占比，主委知道是多少嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：9%到12%。"],["王委員鴻薇：9%到12%，主委，你覺得這個數字有沒有怪怪的？因為全球都要淨零排放，不是只有臺灣才需要嘛！如果全球做出來的是1%，但是我們國發會為了要配合、又不能做核電，怎麼來補充呢？所以做出來的是9%到12%。1%與9%到12%，你有沒有感覺臺灣會不會怪怪的？我們會不會太過高估？好，因為你要去中研院找廖院長，根據中研院針對淨零排放的科技研發政策建議書，你知道它建議2050年是多少嗎？氫電的百分比是多少，你知道嗎？好，我來告訴你，達到四分之一，可能嗎？達到四分之一！國際是1%，我們國發會預估9%到12%，我就以10%來算好了，就是10倍，而中研院的建議是達到四分之一。我希望讓主委有一些概念，如果我們做一個完全高於、而且超出世界趨勢的預期，你就會知道我們這樣的規劃會是怪怪的！主委，你現在會主掌非常多的政策，可能有很多訊息你的幕僚還沒有時間傳達給你，所以你覺得核電很重要，我們覺得核電很重要，但是能用氫電取代到多少？它的成本會到多少？產業界能不能負荷？這個都是必須要去做更長遠的考量，好不好？謝謝。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請黃珊珊委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":402,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-14","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","邱議瑩","鄭正鈐","呂玉玲","賴瑞隆","鄭天財Sra 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\"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"界\", \"start\": 395.762, \"end\": 396.343, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"趨\"}, {\"word\": \"勢\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 396.343, \"end\": 396.763, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 396.763, \"end\": 397.403, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 397.403, \"end\": 397.543, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 397.543, \"end\": 397.843, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 397.843, \"end\": 398.004, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 398.004, \"end\": 398.564, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 398.564, \"end\": 398.924, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 398.924, \"end\": 398.944, \"score\": 0.402}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 398.944, \"end\": 399.104, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"劃\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 399.104, \"end\": 399.224, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"怪\", \"start\": 399.224, \"end\": 399.284, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"怪\", \"start\": 399.284, \"end\": 399.364, \"score\": 0.411}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 399.364, \"end\": 399.384, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 401.986, \"end\": 402.006, \"score\": 0.173}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"en\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,069 --> 00:00:00,249\n王 鴻 薇\n\n2\n00:00:27,521 --> 00:00:37,587\n主 委 好 , 我 呼 籲 一 下 剛 才 牛 許 廷 委 員 他 所 諮 詢 的 內 容 其 實 在 這 次 新 政 府 裡 面 , 包 含 主 委 還 有 我 們 的 速 發 部 部 長 跟 經 濟 部 的 部 長 被 外 界 認 為 是 有 亮 點 的 一 個 隔 緣 的 安 排\n\n3\n00:00:43,391 --> 00:00:57,435\n但 是 呢 不 可 諱 言 的 我 們 幾 位 現 在 新 的 閣 員 基 本 上 你 們 的 資 歷 非 常 的 好 非 常 亮 眼 但 是 確 實 都 屬 於 高 大 上 的 產 業 感 覺 呢 沒 有 什 麼 庶 民 經 濟 的 相 關 的 一 些 經 驗 那 所 以 呢 我 把 它 具 體 而 為 的 特 別 為 什 麼 也 請 三 位 處 長 一 起 來 聽 一 下\n\n4\n00:01:09,418 --> 00:01:15,761\n昨 天 主 計 處 發 布 了 一 個 訊 息 統 計 資 料 我 個 人 認 為 這 是 對 於 很 多 的 我 們 講 數 名 經 濟 非 常 重 要 一 個 資 料 因 為 他 們 是 固 定 的 去 調 查 台 灣 的 攤 販 數 還 有 他 的 交 易 金 額 以 及 他 的 利 潤 出 現 了 一 個 地 下 經 濟 的 震 痛 期 我 不 曉 得 震 痛 還 是 會 變 成 長 痛 期\n\n5\n00:01:35,789 --> 00:01:51,974\n我 們 台 灣 的 攤 販 數 3 5 年 來 出 現 了 加 數 下 降 最 多 而 且 利 潤 也 下 降 最 多 的 一 個 狀 況 這 個 我 們 是 可 以 理 解 因 為 包 含 我 們 現 在 不 管 是 網 購 啦 、 電 子 支 付 啦 、 外 賣 等 等 一 定 會 衝 擊 這 些 攤 販\n\n6\n00:01:54,835 --> 00:02:13,712\n那 所 以 我 們 今 天 除 了 我 們 在 講 A I 產 業 科 技 產 業 我 們 的 淨 零 排 放 等 等 之 類 但 是 對 於 這 這 麼 多 的 一 個 就 業 人 口 的 攤 販 數 的 急 劇 下 降 我 們 政 府 可 不 可 以 想 辦 法 有 一 些 協 助 好 我 直 接 講\n\n7\n00:02:14,873 --> 00:02:33,687\n在 我 在 擔 任 臺 北 市 議 員 的 時 候 其 實 我 們 在 臺 北 市 做 了 一 個 非 常 大 的 努 力 就 是 讓 傳 統 的 市 場 攤 販 能 夠 做 電 子 支 付 所 以 像 在 臺 北 市 所 有 公 有 市 場 現 在 電 子 支 付 的 普 及 率 已 經 超 過 9 0 %\n\n8\n00:02:35,128 --> 00:02:35,548\n我 看 你 再 點 頭 哈\n\n9\n00:03:05,006 --> 00:03:29,805\n那 我 要 講 就 說 除 了 臺 北 市 之 外 很 多 的 縣 市 可 能 也 有 在 做 可 是 做 了 一 些 時 間 因 為 他 可 能 非 常 的 反 彈 或 者 是 說 基 本 上 大 家 都 可 以 想 到 了 一 個 他 付 手 續 費 他 覺 得 我 成 本 增 加 另 外 一 個 他 很 怕 國 稅 局 來 幫 他 查 稅 等 等 之 類 的 所 以 他 會 有 一 些 反 彈 或 者 抗 拒 所 以 呢\n\n10\n00:03:30,886 --> 00:03:38,334\n現 在 除 了 台 北 市 之 外 其 實 他 推 行 的 並 不 是 很 好 可 是 呢 我 覺 得 這 些 的 攤 販 轉 型 必 須 要 做 的 比 如 說 現 在 外 賣 也 好 或 者 網 購 也 好 越 來 越 多 我 舉 例 來 講\n\n11\n00:03:46,181 --> 00:04:03,699\n台 北 市 就 是 因 為 有 大 力 的 推 動 攤 販 的 電 子 支 付 所 以 比 如 說 包 含 在 台 北 市 的 我 們 中 山 市 場 還 有 松 江 市 場 這 都 是 我 的 選 區 啊 它 有 傳 統 的 市 場 但 是 呢 它 在 外 賣 它 全 部 都 上 架 所 以 並 不 是 只 有 全 聯 上 架 你 要 買 生 鮮 食 品 並 不 是 只 有 在 全 聯 喔\n\n12\n00:04:04,460 --> 00:04:08,402\n您 可 以 在 我 們 這 些 很 好 的 市 場 買 到 更 好 的 生 鮮 食 品 好 別 說 南 門 市 場 當 然 這 也 很 有 名 所 以 如 果 未 來 我 們 能 夠 推 動 這 樣 的 市 場 攤 販 能 夠 成 功 轉 型 的 話 這 樣 的 一 個 大 浪 潮 會 使 得 我 們 非 常 好 的 服 務 業 非 常 好 的 攤 販 他 繼 續 能 夠 在 市 場 存 活\n\n13\n00:04:25,791 --> 00:04:28,432\n所 以 這 一 點 非 常 重 要 所 以 我 在 這 邊 也 拜 託 主 委 除 了 高 大 上 的 產 業 之 外 也 能 夠 來 關 心 我 們 這 樣 的 一 個 傳 統 產 業 怎 麼 樣 讓 他 搭 上 這 樣 的 便 車 轉 型 勢 在 必 行 當 然 這 個 要 請 經 濟 部 經 濟 部 有 些 輔 導 辦 法 但 是 看 起 來 輔 導 不 利 啊 因 為 可 能 有 一 些 攤 商 他 還 在 抗 拒 中\n\n14\n00:04:48,001 --> 00:04:52,105\n另 外 花 一 點 點 時 間 不 好 意 思 我 要 跟 主 委 講 因 為 主 委 接 受 媒 體 採 訪 談 到 就 是 你 談 到 核 電 的 重 要 性 你 也 談 到 說 清 電 的 重 要 性 但 是 也 想 跟 主 委 讓 主 委 瞭 解\n\n15\n00:05:05,153 --> 00:05:22,552\n國 際 能 源 署 他 的 預 估 2 0 5 0 年 全 球 的 清 電 的 占 比 是 1 % 而 國 發 會 做 出 來 的 也 根 據 為 了 要 符 合 我 們 2 0 5 0 的 淨 零 排 放 的 目 標 做 出 來 的 清 電 的 占 比 諸 位 知 道 是 多 少 嗎 ?\n\n16\n00:05:26,564 --> 00:05:50,936\n9 到 1 2 % 9 到 1 2 % 主 委 你 覺 得 這 數 字 有 沒 有 怪 怪 的 ? 如 果 全 球 , 因 為 全 球 都 要 禁 零 排 放 , 不 是 只 有 台 灣 才 要 嗎 ? 如 果 全 球 做 出 來 是 1 % 但 是 我 們 國 發 會 當 然 為 了 要 配 合 , 因 為 不 能 做 核 電 了 , 怎 麼 來 補 充 呢 ? 所 以 做 出 9 到 1 2 % 你 有 沒 有 感 覺 1 % 跟 9 到 1 2 % 台 灣 會 不 會 怪 怪 的 ? 我 們 會 不 會 太 過 的 高 估 ? 好 , 因 為 你 要 去 中 研 院 去 找 廖 院 長\n\n17\n00:05:52,077 --> 00:06:15,191\n中 研 院 的 他 也 是 針 對 淨 零 排 放 的 科 技 的 政 策 建 議 書 你 知 道 2 0 5 0 年 他 的 建 議 是 多 少 嗎 ? 清 電 的 百 分 比 要 多 少 嗎 ? 您 知 道 嗎 ? 好 我 來 告 訴 你 因 為 我 時 間 我 不 要 達 到 四 分 之 一 可 能 嗎 ? 達 到 四 分 之 一 國 際 百 分 之 一 我 們\n\n18\n00:06:17,831 --> 00:06:39,384\n國 發 會 預 估 9 % 到 1 2 % 我 以 1 0 % 好 了 1 0 倍 然 後 中 研 院 的 建 議 是 達 到 4 分 之 1 所 以 你 就 知 道 我 希 望 讓 那 個 諸 位 有 一 些 概 念 如 果 我 們 做 一 個 完 全 高 於 而 且 超 出 世 界 趨 勢 的 預 期 你 就 會 知 道 我 們 的 這 樣 的 規 劃 會 是 怪 怪 的\n\n19\n00:06:41,986 --> 00:06:42,006\n好 , 謝 謝 。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n69\t249\t王鴻薇\n27521\t37587\t主委好,我呼籲一下剛才牛許廷委員他所諮詢的內容其實在這次新政府裡面,包含主委還有我們的速發部部長跟經濟部的部長被外界認為是有亮點的一個隔緣的安排\n43391\t57435\t但是呢不可諱言的我們幾位現在新的閣員基本上你們的資歷非常的好非常亮眼但是確實都屬於高大上的產業感覺呢沒有什麼庶民經濟的相關的一些經驗那所以呢我把它具體而為的特別為什麼也請三位處長一起來聽一下\n69418\t75761\t昨天主計處發布了一個訊息統計資料我個人認為這是對於很多的我們講數名經濟非常重要一個資料因為他們是固定的去調查台灣的攤販數還有他的交易金額以及他的利潤出現了一個地下經濟的震痛期我不曉得震痛還是會變成長痛期\n95789\t111974\t我們台灣的攤販數35年來出現了加數下降最多而且利潤也下降最多的一個狀況這個我們是可以理解因為包含我們現在不管是網購啦、電子支付啦、外賣等等一定會衝擊這些攤販\n114835\t133712\t那所以我們今天除了我們在講AI產業科技產業我們的淨零排放等等之類但是對於這這麼多的一個就業人口的攤販數的急劇下降我們政府可不可以想辦法有一些協助好我直接講\n134873\t153687\t在我在擔任臺北市議員的時候其實我們在臺北市做了一個非常大的努力就是讓傳統的市場攤販能夠做電子支付所以像在臺北市所有公有市場現在電子支付的普及率已經超過90%\n155128\t155548\t我看你再點頭哈\n185006\t209805\t那我要講就說除了臺北市之外很多的縣市可能也有在做可是做了一些時間因為他可能非常的反彈或者是說基本上大家都可以想到了一個他付手續費他覺得我成本增加另外一個他很怕國稅局來幫他查稅等等之類的所以他會有一些反彈或者抗拒所以呢\n210886\t218334\t現在除了台北市之外其實他推行的並不是很好可是呢我覺得這些的攤販轉型必須要做的比如說現在外賣也好或者網購也好越來越多我舉例來講\n226181\t243699\t台北市就是因為有大力的推動攤販的電子支付所以比如說包含在台北市的我們中山市場還有松江市場這都是我的選區啊它有傳統的市場但是呢它在外賣它全部都上架所以並不是只有全聯上架你要買生鮮食品並不是只有在全聯喔\n244460\t248402\t您可以在我們這些很好的市場買到更好的生鮮食品好別說南門市場當然這也很有名所以如果未來我們能夠推動這樣的市場攤販能夠成功轉型的話這樣的一個大浪潮會使得我們非常好的服務業非常好的攤販他繼續能夠在市場存活\n265791\t268432\t所以這一點非常重要所以我在這邊也拜託主委除了高大上的產業之外也能夠來關心我們這樣的一個傳統產業怎麼樣讓他搭上這樣的便車轉型勢在必行當然這個要請經濟部經濟部有些輔導辦法但是看起來輔導不利啊因為可能有一些攤商他還在抗拒中\n288001\t292105\t另外花一點點時間不好意思我要跟主委講因為主委接受媒體採訪談到就是你談到核電的重要性你也談到說清電的重要性但是也想跟主委讓主委瞭解\n305153\t322552\t國際能源署他的預估2050年全球的清電的占比是1%而國發會做出來的也根據為了要符合我們2050的淨零排放的目標做出來的清電的占比 諸位知道是多少嗎?\n326564\t350936\t9到12%9到12% 主委你覺得這數字有沒有怪怪的?如果全球,因為全球都要禁零排放,不是只有台灣才要嗎?如果全球做出來是1%但是我們國發會當然為了要配合,因為不能做核電了,怎麼來補充呢?所以做出9到12%你有沒有感覺1%跟9到12%台灣會不會怪怪的?我們會不會太過的高估?好,因為你要去中研院去找廖院長\n352077\t375191\t中研院的他也是針對淨零排放的科技的政策建議書你知道2050年他的建議是多少嗎?清電的百分比要多少嗎?您知道嗎?好我來告訴你因為我時間我不要達到四分之一可能嗎?達到四分之一國際百分之一我們\n377831\t399384\t國發會預估9%到12%我以10%好了10倍然後中研院的建議是達到4分之1所以你就知道我希望讓那個諸位有一些概念如果我們做一個完全高於而且超出世界趨勢的預期你就會知道我們的這樣的規劃會是怪怪的\n401986\t402006\t好,謝謝。\n432193\t432637\t謝謝!\n","txt":"王鴻薇\n主委好,我呼籲一下剛才牛許廷委員他所諮詢的內容其實在這次新政府裡面,包含主委還有我們的速發部部長跟經濟部的部長被外界認為是有亮點的一個隔緣的安排\n但是呢不可諱言的我們幾位現在新的閣員基本上你們的資歷非常的好非常亮眼但是確實都屬於高大上的產業感覺呢沒有什麼庶民經濟的相關的一些經驗那所以呢我把它具體而為的特別為什麼也請三位處長一起來聽一下\n昨天主計處發布了一個訊息統計資料我個人認為這是對於很多的我們講數名經濟非常重要一個資料因為他們是固定的去調查台灣的攤販數還有他的交易金額以及他的利潤出現了一個地下經濟的震痛期我不曉得震痛還是會變成長痛期\n我們台灣的攤販數35年來出現了加數下降最多而且利潤也下降最多的一個狀況這個我們是可以理解因為包含我們現在不管是網購啦、電子支付啦、外賣等等一定會衝擊這些攤販\n那所以我們今天除了我們在講AI產業科技產業我們的淨零排放等等之類但是對於這這麼多的一個就業人口的攤販數的急劇下降我們政府可不可以想辦法有一些協助好我直接講\n在我在擔任臺北市議員的時候其實我們在臺北市做了一個非常大的努力就是讓傳統的市場攤販能夠做電子支付所以像在臺北市所有公有市場現在電子支付的普及率已經超過90%\n我看你再點頭哈\n那我要講就說除了臺北市之外很多的縣市可能也有在做可是做了一些時間因為他可能非常的反彈或者是說基本上大家都可以想到了一個他付手續費他覺得我成本增加另外一個他很怕國稅局來幫他查稅等等之類的所以他會有一些反彈或者抗拒所以呢\n現在除了台北市之外其實他推行的並不是很好可是呢我覺得這些的攤販轉型必須要做的比如說現在外賣也好或者網購也好越來越多我舉例來講\n台北市就是因為有大力的推動攤販的電子支付所以比如說包含在台北市的我們中山市場還有松江市場這都是我的選區啊它有傳統的市場但是呢它在外賣它全部都上架所以並不是只有全聯上架你要買生鮮食品並不是只有在全聯喔\n您可以在我們這些很好的市場買到更好的生鮮食品好別說南門市場當然這也很有名所以如果未來我們能夠推動這樣的市場攤販能夠成功轉型的話這樣的一個大浪潮會使得我們非常好的服務業非常好的攤販他繼續能夠在市場存活\n所以這一點非常重要所以我在這邊也拜託主委除了高大上的產業之外也能夠來關心我們這樣的一個傳統產業怎麼樣讓他搭上這樣的便車轉型勢在必行當然這個要請經濟部經濟部有些輔導辦法但是看起來輔導不利啊因為可能有一些攤商他還在抗拒中\n另外花一點點時間不好意思我要跟主委講因為主委接受媒體採訪談到就是你談到核電的重要性你也談到說清電的重要性但是也想跟主委讓主委瞭解\n國際能源署他的預估2050年全球的清電的占比是1%而國發會做出來的也根據為了要符合我們2050的淨零排放的目標做出來的清電的占比 諸位知道是多少嗎?\n9到12%9到12% 主委你覺得這數字有沒有怪怪的?如果全球,因為全球都要禁零排放,不是只有台灣才要嗎?如果全球做出來是1%但是我們國發會當然為了要配合,因為不能做核電了,怎麼來補充呢?所以做出9到12%你有沒有感覺1%跟9到12%台灣會不會怪怪的?我們會不會太過的高估?好,因為你要去中研院去找廖院長\n中研院的他也是針對淨零排放的科技的政策建議書你知道2050年他的建議是多少嗎?清電的百分比要多少嗎?您知道嗎?好我來告訴你因為我時間我不要達到四分之一可能嗎?達到四分之一國際百分之一我們\n國發會預估9%到12%我以10%好了10倍然後中研院的建議是達到4分之1所以你就知道我希望讓那個諸位有一些概念如果我們做一個完全高於而且超出世界趨勢的預期你就會知道我們的這樣的規劃會是怪怪的\n好,謝謝。\n謝謝!\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.069 --> 00:00.249\n王 鴻 薇\n\n00:27.521 --> 00:37.587\n主 委 好 , 我 呼 籲 一 下 剛 才 牛 許 廷 委 員 他 所 諮 詢 的 內 容 其 實 在 這 次 新 政 府 裡 面 , 包 含 主 委 還 有 我 們 的 速 發 部 部 長 跟 經 濟 部 的 部 長 被 外 界 認 為 是 有 亮 點 的 一 個 隔 緣 的 安 排\n\n00:43.391 --> 00:57.435\n但 是 呢 不 可 諱 言 的 我 們 幾 位 現 在 新 的 閣 員 基 本 上 你 們 的 資 歷 非 常 的 好 非 常 亮 眼 但 是 確 實 都 屬 於 高 大 上 的 產 業 感 覺 呢 沒 有 什 麼 庶 民 經 濟 的 相 關 的 一 些 經 驗 那 所 以 呢 我 把 它 具 體 而 為 的 特 別 為 什 麼 也 請 三 位 處 長 一 起 來 聽 一 下\n\n01:09.418 --> 01:15.761\n昨 天 主 計 處 發 布 了 一 個 訊 息 統 計 資 料 我 個 人 認 為 這 是 對 於 很 多 的 我 們 講 數 名 經 濟 非 常 重 要 一 個 資 料 因 為 他 們 是 固 定 的 去 調 查 台 灣 的 攤 販 數 還 有 他 的 交 易 金 額 以 及 他 的 利 潤 出 現 了 一 個 地 下 經 濟 的 震 痛 期 我 不 曉 得 震 痛 還 是 會 變 成 長 痛 期\n\n01:35.789 --> 01:51.974\n我 們 台 灣 的 攤 販 數 3 5 年 來 出 現 了 加 數 下 降 最 多 而 且 利 潤 也 下 降 最 多 的 一 個 狀 況 這 個 我 們 是 可 以 理 解 因 為 包 含 我 們 現 在 不 管 是 網 購 啦 、 電 子 支 付 啦 、 外 賣 等 等 一 定 會 衝 擊 這 些 攤 販\n\n01:54.835 --> 02:13.712\n那 所 以 我 們 今 天 除 了 我 們 在 講 A I 產 業 科 技 產 業 我 們 的 淨 零 排 放 等 等 之 類 但 是 對 於 這 這 麼 多 的 一 個 就 業 人 口 的 攤 販 數 的 急 劇 下 降 我 們 政 府 可 不 可 以 想 辦 法 有 一 些 協 助 好 我 直 接 講\n\n02:14.873 --> 02:33.687\n在 我 在 擔 任 臺 北 市 議 員 的 時 候 其 實 我 們 在 臺 北 市 做 了 一 個 非 常 大 的 努 力 就 是 讓 傳 統 的 市 場 攤 販 能 夠 做 電 子 支 付 所 以 像 在 臺 北 市 所 有 公 有 市 場 現 在 電 子 支 付 的 普 及 率 已 經 超 過 9 0 %\n\n02:35.128 --> 02:35.548\n我 看 你 再 點 頭 哈\n\n03:05.006 --> 03:29.805\n那 我 要 講 就 說 除 了 臺 北 市 之 外 很 多 的 縣 市 可 能 也 有 在 做 可 是 做 了 一 些 時 間 因 為 他 可 能 非 常 的 反 彈 或 者 是 說 基 本 上 大 家 都 可 以 想 到 了 一 個 他 付 手 續 費 他 覺 得 我 成 本 增 加 另 外 一 個 他 很 怕 國 稅 局 來 幫 他 查 稅 等 等 之 類 的 所 以 他 會 有 一 些 反 彈 或 者 抗 拒 所 以 呢\n\n03:30.886 --> 03:38.334\n現 在 除 了 台 北 市 之 外 其 實 他 推 行 的 並 不 是 很 好 可 是 呢 我 覺 得 這 些 的 攤 販 轉 型 必 須 要 做 的 比 如 說 現 在 外 賣 也 好 或 者 網 購 也 好 越 來 越 多 我 舉 例 來 講\n\n03:46.181 --> 04:03.699\n台 北 市 就 是 因 為 有 大 力 的 推 動 攤 販 的 電 子 支 付 所 以 比 如 說 包 含 在 台 北 市 的 我 們 中 山 市 場 還 有 松 江 市 場 這 都 是 我 的 選 區 啊 它 有 傳 統 的 市 場 但 是 呢 它 在 外 賣 它 全 部 都 上 架 所 以 並 不 是 只 有 全 聯 上 架 你 要 買 生 鮮 食 品 並 不 是 只 有 在 全 聯 喔\n\n04:04.460 --> 04:08.402\n您 可 以 在 我 們 這 些 很 好 的 市 場 買 到 更 好 的 生 鮮 食 品 好 別 說 南 門 市 場 當 然 這 也 很 有 名 所 以 如 果 未 來 我 們 能 夠 推 動 這 樣 的 市 場 攤 販 能 夠 成 功 轉 型 的 話 這 樣 的 一 個 大 浪 潮 會 使 得 我 們 非 常 好 的 服 務 業 非 常 好 的 攤 販 他 繼 續 能 夠 在 市 場 存 活\n\n04:25.791 --> 04:28.432\n所 以 這 一 點 非 常 重 要 所 以 我 在 這 邊 也 拜 託 主 委 除 了 高 大 上 的 產 業 之 外 也 能 夠 來 關 心 我 們 這 樣 的 一 個 傳 統 產 業 怎 麼 樣 讓 他 搭 上 這 樣 的 便 車 轉 型 勢 在 必 行 當 然 這 個 要 請 經 濟 部 經 濟 部 有 些 輔 導 辦 法 但 是 看 起 來 輔 導 不 利 啊 因 為 可 能 有 一 些 攤 商 他 還 在 抗 拒 中\n\n04:48.001 --> 04:52.105\n另 外 花 一 點 點 時 間 不 好 意 思 我 要 跟 主 委 講 因 為 主 委 接 受 媒 體 採 訪 談 到 就 是 你 談 到 核 電 的 重 要 性 你 也 談 到 說 清 電 的 重 要 性 但 是 也 想 跟 主 委 讓 主 委 瞭 解\n\n05:05.153 --> 05:22.552\n國 際 能 源 署 他 的 預 估 2 0 5 0 年 全 球 的 清 電 的 占 比 是 1 % 而 國 發 會 做 出 來 的 也 根 據 為 了 要 符 合 我 們 2 0 5 0 的 淨 零 排 放 的 目 標 做 出 來 的 清 電 的 占 比 諸 位 知 道 是 多 少 嗎 ?\n\n05:26.564 --> 05:50.936\n9 到 1 2 % 9 到 1 2 % 主 委 你 覺 得 這 數 字 有 沒 有 怪 怪 的 ? 如 果 全 球 , 因 為 全 球 都 要 禁 零 排 放 , 不 是 只 有 台 灣 才 要 嗎 ? 如 果 全 球 做 出 來 是 1 % 但 是 我 們 國 發 會 當 然 為 了 要 配 合 , 因 為 不 能 做 核 電 了 , 怎 麼 來 補 充 呢 ? 所 以 做 出 9 到 1 2 % 你 有 沒 有 感 覺 1 % 跟 9 到 1 2 % 台 灣 會 不 會 怪 怪 的 ? 我 們 會 不 會 太 過 的 高 估 ? 好 , 因 為 你 要 去 中 研 院 去 找 廖 院 長\n\n05:52.077 --> 06:15.191\n中 研 院 的 他 也 是 針 對 淨 零 排 放 的 科 技 的 政 策 建 議 書 你 知 道 2 0 5 0 年 他 的 建 議 是 多 少 嗎 ? 清 電 的 百 分 比 要 多 少 嗎 ? 您 知 道 嗎 ? 好 我 來 告 訴 你 因 為 我 時 間 我 不 要 達 到 四 分 之 一 可 能 嗎 ? 達 到 四 分 之 一 國 際 百 分 之 一 我 們\n\n06:17.831 --> 06:39.384\n國 發 會 預 估 9 % 到 1 2 % 我 以 1 0 % 好 了 1 0 倍 然 後 中 研 院 的 建 議 是 達 到 4 分 之 1 所 以 你 就 知 道 我 希 望 讓 那 個 諸 位 有 一 些 概 念 如 果 我 們 做 一 個 完 全 高 於 而 且 超 出 世 界 趨 勢 的 預 期 你 就 會 知 道 我 們 的 這 樣 的 規 劃 會 是 怪 怪 的\n\n06:41.986 --> 06:42.006\n好 , 謝 謝 。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.069,"end":0.249,"text":"王鴻薇"},{"start":27.521,"end":37.587,"text":"主委好,我呼籲一下剛才牛許廷委員他所諮詢的內容其實在這次新政府裡面,包含主委還有我們的速發部部長跟經濟部的部長被外界認為是有亮點的一個隔緣的安排"},{"start":43.391,"end":57.435,"text":"但是呢不可諱言的我們幾位現在新的閣員基本上你們的資歷非常的好非常亮眼但是確實都屬於高大上的產業感覺呢沒有什麼庶民經濟的相關的一些經驗那所以呢我把它具體而為的特別為什麼也請三位處長一起來聽一下"},{"start":69.418,"end":75.761,"text":"昨天主計處發布了一個訊息統計資料我個人認為這是對於很多的我們講數名經濟非常重要一個資料因為他們是固定的去調查台灣的攤販數還有他的交易金額以及他的利潤出現了一個地下經濟的震痛期我不曉得震痛還是會變成長痛期"},{"start":95.789,"end":111.974,"text":"我們台灣的攤販數35年來出現了加數下降最多而且利潤也下降最多的一個狀況這個我們是可以理解因為包含我們現在不管是網購啦、電子支付啦、外賣等等一定會衝擊這些攤販"},{"start":114.835,"end":133.712,"text":"那所以我們今天除了我們在講AI產業科技產業我們的淨零排放等等之類但是對於這這麼多的一個就業人口的攤販數的急劇下降我們政府可不可以想辦法有一些協助好我直接講"},{"start":134.873,"end":153.687,"text":"在我在擔任臺北市議員的時候其實我們在臺北市做了一個非常大的努力就是讓傳統的市場攤販能夠做電子支付所以像在臺北市所有公有市場現在電子支付的普及率已經超過90%"},{"start":155.128,"end":155.548,"text":"我看你再點頭哈"},{"start":185.006,"end":209.805,"text":"那我要講就說除了臺北市之外很多的縣市可能也有在做可是做了一些時間因為他可能非常的反彈或者是說基本上大家都可以想到了一個他付手續費他覺得我成本增加另外一個他很怕國稅局來幫他查稅等等之類的所以他會有一些反彈或者抗拒所以呢"},{"start":210.886,"end":218.334,"text":"現在除了台北市之外其實他推行的並不是很好可是呢我覺得這些的攤販轉型必須要做的比如說現在外賣也好或者網購也好越來越多我舉例來講"},{"start":226.181,"end":243.699,"text":"台北市就是因為有大力的推動攤販的電子支付所以比如說包含在台北市的我們中山市場還有松江市場這都是我的選區啊它有傳統的市場但是呢它在外賣它全部都上架所以並不是只有全聯上架你要買生鮮食品並不是只有在全聯喔"},{"start":244.46,"end":248.402,"text":"您可以在我們這些很好的市場買到更好的生鮮食品好別說南門市場當然這也很有名所以如果未來我們能夠推動這樣的市場攤販能夠成功轉型的話這樣的一個大浪潮會使得我們非常好的服務業非常好的攤販他繼續能夠在市場存活"},{"start":265.791,"end":268.432,"text":"所以這一點非常重要所以我在這邊也拜託主委除了高大上的產業之外也能夠來關心我們這樣的一個傳統產業怎麼樣讓他搭上這樣的便車轉型勢在必行當然這個要請經濟部經濟部有些輔導辦法但是看起來輔導不利啊因為可能有一些攤商他還在抗拒中"},{"start":288.001,"end":292.105,"text":"另外花一點點時間不好意思我要跟主委講因為主委接受媒體採訪談到就是你談到核電的重要性你也談到說清電的重要性但是也想跟主委讓主委瞭解"},{"start":305.153,"end":322.552,"text":"國際能源署他的預估2050年全球的清電的占比是1%而國發會做出來的也根據為了要符合我們2050的淨零排放的目標做出來的清電的占比 諸位知道是多少嗎?"},{"start":326.564,"end":350.936,"text":"9到12%9到12% 主委你覺得這數字有沒有怪怪的?如果全球,因為全球都要禁零排放,不是只有台灣才要嗎?如果全球做出來是1%但是我們國發會當然為了要配合,因為不能做核電了,怎麼來補充呢?所以做出9到12%你有沒有感覺1%跟9到12%台灣會不會怪怪的?我們會不會太過的高估?好,因為你要去中研院去找廖院長"},{"start":352.077,"end":375.191,"text":"中研院的他也是針對淨零排放的科技的政策建議書你知道2050年他的建議是多少嗎?清電的百分比要多少嗎?您知道嗎?好我來告訴你因為我時間我不要達到四分之一可能嗎?達到四分之一國際百分之一我們"},{"start":377.831,"end":399.384,"text":"國發會預估9%到12%我以10%好了10倍然後中研院的建議是達到4分之1所以你就知道我希望讓那個諸位有一些概念如果我們做一個完全高於而且超出世界趨勢的預期你就會知道我們的這樣的規劃會是怪怪的"},{"start":401.986,"end":402.006,"text":"好,謝謝。"},{"start":432.193,"end":432.637,"text":"謝謝!"}]}}}}