{"id":153387,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153387","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/bbbc431469b8aebad00351e6784ac89acb22e1ce6086f58b446d6a815e913744929d091a91415b875ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"盧縣一","委員發言時間":"11:31:57 - 11:41:05","影片長度":"00:09:08","會議時間":"2024-05-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關原住民族委員會預算凍結書面報告案計4案。二、處理財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會113年度預算凍結書面報告案計1案。三、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。四、審查(一)委員高金素梅等22人擬具「都會原住民權利發展條例草案」案。(二)委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「都市原住民發展條例草案」案。(三)委員陳瑩等16人擬具「都市地區原住民族發展條例草案」案。(四)委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等21人擬具「都市原住民發展條例草案」案。【詢答及處理；第(四)案如經院會復議則不予審查】）","date":"2024-05-30","start_time":"2024-05-30T11:31:57+08:00","end_time":"2024-05-30T11:41:05+08:00","duration":548,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":21,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-21"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1056,"blocks":[["盧委員縣一：（11時32分）主席，請主委。"],["主席：有請曾主委，謝謝。"],["盧委員縣一：主委好。"],["曾主任委員智勇：委員好。"],["盧委員縣一：恭喜你。"],["曾主任委員智勇：謝謝。"],["盧委員縣一：我們倆的家直線距離不到10公里，所以應該可以有很良性的溝通。我們先從第1頁的業務報告來看好，不好？關於翻譯的過程，我常常覺得，中央部會層級的翻譯應該要很審慎，所以就第1頁來看，關於原住民族委員會這個部分，排灣語是patjarakacalisian，可是「patjara」的部分我覺得應該是介係詞，所以應該不可以跟「kacalisian」放在一起。「patjara」就是「about」，意為「about indigenous」，把「patjarakacalisian」放在一起的時候，我們會覺得這個字非常冗長。很多原住民學生或者一般人學習原住民語言的時候覺得很困難的地方就是單字太長，可是其實並不是單字太長，而是因為你們不知道怎麼分段落，所以針對報告第1頁，我要提醒的部分是這個。","第二是我希望主委能夠親自、大聲地念一下你的名字，好不好？也就是下面報告人這個部分。"],["曾主任委員智勇：下面是ti Ljaucu．Zingrur。"],["盧委員縣一：嗯！再來呢？"],["曾主任委員智勇：Ljaucu．Zingrur。"],["盧委員縣一：然後？後面那個是？"],["曾主任委員智勇：名字是Ljaucu．Zingrur。"],["盧委員縣一：對，但為什麼後面還有這些？"],["曾主任委員智勇：不對啦！那個應該是主任委員的意思吧。"],["盧委員縣一：是嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：對。"],["盧委員縣一：好。","我是希望翻譯的時候能夠比較確實。如果會誤解這是你名字的全部，就會懷疑怎麼念不出來或是什麼情況，以後在取名字的時候要不要按照你這個模式來取，那以後我們的名字就特別長？所以就用一個指標性來看，可以嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：好，我會特別注意，再修一下。"],["盧委員縣一：那我們從第2頁來看。在原住民專法、身分認定這個部分，我上次提過，臺東平地山胞中，包含很多排灣族平地山胞，甚至是魯凱族平地山胞，其實有意願成為山地山胞、山地原住民。在這部分的門檻上，他們能不能就意願來申請？如果說有困難度，困難度在哪裡？比如說大武鄉、太麻里鄉有很多平原的原住民，可是他們確實是排灣族人，你覺得這一屆期能不能完成？"],["曾主任委員智勇：跟委員報告，目前的法令是不可以，如果已是山地原住民或平地原住民，就不能……"],["盧委員縣一：不能按照他的意願嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：對。"],["盧委員縣一：現在既然已經要解決平埔原住民的問題了，可不可以順便解決這個問題？因為這個問題懸而未決。"],["曾主任委員智勇：這要先修法欸！"],["盧委員縣一：是嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["盧委員縣一：好，那我們來努力。","第二個就是在取得原住民部落同意這個部分，目前的方式只有部落會議，是不是？"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["盧委員縣一：可不可以用電詢、簽同意書，或者有一個部落app？很多人因為在外工作，沒有辦法回到部落，所以如果部落app有一個「同意」的按鈕讓他send出來的話，我們就不用那麼費盡心思地開部落會議，而且部落會議每次開都開不成，是不是？可以研議嘛！"],["曾主任委員智勇：跟委員報告，我們有委託的設計，他可以委託。"],["盧委員縣一：是，希望相關辦法可以儘早出來，不然每次都卡在這裡。"],["曾主任委員智勇：好。"],["盧委員縣一：接下來是原住民族土地使用規則，這是大家都很擔心的問題，我就大概歸類一下。第一，現在它到底可以解決我什麼問題、土地的什麼問題？第二個是既有土地的保障跟未來的方向在哪裡？是不是可以就近解決這些？我問這兩個問題就好：114年5月1號實施以後，對於我的土地可以解決什麼樣的問題？第二個是我現有土地的保障跟未來的規劃。這樣就好了，不然永遠都卡在農一、農二這些問題，老人家根本就不知道在講什麼，好不好？"],["曾主任委員智勇：就是要解決耕地不足還有居住不足的部分。"],["盧委員縣一：對，每次開座談會或者到部落宣導的時候，他們聽完一遍，頭腦又暈了，不知道在講什麼。你們就針對他個人的部分會不會改變加以說明就好了！這樣是不是會比較容易？"],["曾主任委員智勇：是。"],["盧委員縣一：我們翻到第4頁，就原住民發展的部分，現在原住民地區大概都是用合作社的方式，但都原愈來愈多，剛剛是講占50.2%，召委甚至說已經到65%了，是不是可以規劃轉變成原住民的銀行，辦理微利創業貸款、微利公共住宅這些業務？是不是朝這種可行性與方向來做，把所有儲蓄合作社整合起來？有沒有這方面的規劃？"],["曾主任委員智勇：我請處長回答。"],["宋處長麗茹：跟委員報告，針對原住民族綜合發展基金各項貸款，其實有分事業型貸款、甚至在儲戶社也都有相關貸款。"],["盧委員縣一：我是希望能夠朝向以比較大的原住民銀行向中央爭取經費啦！不然，若只是這樣的層級，我覺得沒有辦法解決都會型原住民的問題，可以嗎？你們努力一下，不好意思喔！"],["宋處長麗茹：我想在這個部分我們再……"],["盧委員縣一：第二部分是原住民就醫的問題。因為他們在部落看病的時候常常不用錢，可是到都會區看病就要付部分負擔跟掛號費。我希望他的身分不會因為到了都會就不是原住民了，所以這部分能夠從在原住民地區看病不用錢，擴展至到都會區看病也應該免部分負擔，這部分要規劃嘛！因為這點造成很多族人在就醫上的負擔跟不公平啦！因為他本來在原住民地區不用錢，為什麼到平地地區、例如長庚看病就要錢，是不是？"],["曾主任委員智勇：好，這個問題我們會再跟衛福部協商，好不好？"],["盧委員縣一：因為時間的關係，我再提我們一直在講的原住民族博物館。原語會、原文會都要搬到桃園，還有一段時間──8年，費用是58億，但我想起好像沒有聽到未來的宿舍。高雄長庚在蓋的時候是先蓋員工宿舍，我們的博物館應該也要有啊！因為將來那些工作人員也都是原住民，也一定是從全國各地去的啊！是不是應該朝這個方向？費用是不是應該再增設或寬列未來員工住宿的地方？","第二點就是我非常擔心其設計元素沒有原住民的題材，如同常常有人說行人地獄，也就是國人覺得在都市道路行人沒辦法跑步、沒有辦法很安全，我們在部落甚至看到一些圖騰根本不屬於那個族群，顏色也用得不對。我上次去花蓮時看到八部合音、也就是八個人唱歌的表演，卻很像西洋人在唱八部合音，就是有這樣的謬誤啦！也就是說，在規劃、設計元素時應該很審慎，用原住民的人才規劃未來的方向，而不是讓我們去原住民國家博物館看的時候，卻只覺得很像去一般博物館，根本就沒有凸顯它的價值，所以這部分你要強烈地要求，可以嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：會，我成立籌備處的時候會一一要求這些剛才委員所提出的意見。"],["盧委員縣一：好。","最後一頁第10頁，關於原住民歧視的問題，我希望能夠比照性騷擾處理。很多人在一般的工作地方、崗位工作，或許是警察、或許是軍人，都一直受到歧視，但他不知道怎麼申訴，我們的學生也是一樣。如果對於性騷擾大家都那麼重視，我覺得對原住民的歧視也應該列為跟性騷擾一樣的重視等級，不然會造成很多人沒有辦法好好說出心裡面的話。可以嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：可以。"],["盧委員縣一：希望你們這樣研議，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝盧縣一委員的質詢，也謝謝曾主委的回應。","繼續請鄭正鈐委員。鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","請鄭天財委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":148,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-21","speakers":["高金素梅","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳瑩","蘇巧慧","張宏陸","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","黃捷","王美惠","李柏毅","黃仁","吳琪銘","許宇甄","盧縣一","徐欣瑩","林倩綺","丁學忠","張智倫","黃建賓"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-05-30"],"gazette_id":"1135501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135501_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關原住民族委員會預算凍結書面報告案計4案；二、處理財\n團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會113年度預算凍結書面報告案計1案；三、邀請原住民族委員\n會主任委員率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；四、審查(一)委員高金素梅等22人擬具「都\n會原住民權利發展條例草案」案、(二)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人擬具「都市原住民發展條例\n草案」案、( 三) 委員陳瑩等16 人擬具「都市地區原住民族發展條例草案」案、( 四) 委員伍麗華\nSaidhai Tahovecahe 等21人擬具「都市原住民發展條例草案」案","agenda_id":"1135501_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"153387","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153387","tool":"pyannote","id":"153387-pyannote"},"job_id":"oDkX1lDKSzIZdJyQ","queued_at":"2024-05-30 12:22:25","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-30 12:23:24","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153387"},{"time":"2024-05-30 12:23:25","msg":"downloading 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好\n\n2\n00:00:32,577 --> 00:00:57,486\n常 常 在 翻 譯 的 一 個 過 程 我 覺 得 在 一 個 中 央 部 會 層 級 的 一 個 翻 譯 我 覺 得 應 該 要 很 省 慎 所 以 我 們 就 第 一 頁 來 看 所 以 那 個 關 於 原 住 民 族 委 員 會 這 個 部 分 我 們 的 台 灣 語 是 巴 達 拉 嘎 嘎 查 理 想 可 是 巴 達 拉 的 部 分 我 覺 得 應 該 是 介 系 詞 所 以 應 該 不 可 以 跟 嘎 查 理 想 放 在 一 起 所 以 那 個\n\n3\n00:00:59,397 --> 00:01:23,490\n關 於 B a t a r a 就 是 A b o u t I n d i g e n o u s 那 就 是 說 B a t a r a K a t s a r i s h a n 把 字 放 在 一 起 的 時 候 會 覺 得 這 個 字 非 常 冗 長 也 就 會 針 對 我 們 的 很 多 原 住 民 的 學 生 或 者 是 一 般 人 他 要 學 原 住 民 的 時 候 會 覺 得 很 困 難 的 地 方 就 是 單 字 太 長 可 是 並 不 是 單 字 太 長 是 因 為 你 不 知 道 怎 麼 給 他 分 段 落 所 以 這 個 第 一 頁 這 個 部 分 要 提 醒 的 部 分 是 這 個\n\n4\n00:01:24,502 --> 00:01:52,069\n第 二 個 是 我 希 望 主 委 能 夠 親 自 很 大 聲 的 念 一 下 你 的 名 字 好 不 好 在 下 面 這 個 報 告 人 這 個 部 分 這 個 下 面 是 第 一 老 鼠 老 鼠 引 入 了 再 來 老 鼠 引 入 了 然 後 後 面 那 個 是 那 個 名 字 是 老 鼠 引 入 了 對 那 為 什 麼 後 面 還 有 這 些 這 個 是 不 對 的 吧\n\n5\n00:01:55,094 --> 00:01:56,254\n主 任 委 員 主 任 委 員 主 任 委 員\n\n6\n00:02:27,971 --> 00:02:46,366\n懲 罰 身 份 認 定 這 個 部 分 我 上 次 有 提 過 臺 東 的 平 地 三 胞 很 多 排 灣 族 的 平 地 三 胞 甚 至 是 盧 卡 族 的 平 地 三 胞 其 實 他 們 是 有 意 願 成 為 山 地 三 胞 山 地 原 住 民 那 這 個 部 分 是 不 是 在 門 檻 上 面 能 不 能 就 意 願 來 去 申 請 如 果 說 困 難 度 是 困 難 度 在 哪 裡\n\n7\n00:02:47,594 --> 00:03:14,730\n現 在 比 如 說 大 武 鄉 、 太 馬 里 鄉 有 很 多 是 平 原 的 可 是 它 確 實 是 我 們 的 排 灣 族 人 的 話 你 覺 得 有 沒 有 一 個 在 這 一 屆 請 能 不 能 完 成 目 前 的 根 委 包 括 目 前 的 法 令 是 不 可 以 啦 就 是 你 被 定 你 是 山 地 原 住 民 、 平 地 原 住 民 你 不 能 就 是 說 這 個 就 不 能 按 照 它 的 意 願 嗎 對 因 為 現 在 我 們 已 經 要 我 們 已 經 要 解 決 平 埔 原 住 民 的 問 題 可 不 可 以 順 便 來 解 決 這 個 問 題 因 為 這 個 問 題 是 懸 而 未 決\n\n8\n00:03:20,281 --> 00:03:29,051\n是 嗎 ? 好 , 那 我 們 來 努 力 。 第 二 個 就 是 我 們 在 取 得 原 住 民 部 落 同 意 這 個 部 分 , 他 方 式 只 有 部 落 會 議 , 目 前 是 不 是 ?\n\n9\n00:03:30,856 --> 00:03:49,187\n是 是 所 以 我 們 可 以 可 不 可 以 用 電 訊 的 或 者 是 簽 同 意 書 的 或 者 是 說 有 個 部 落 的 A P P 很 多 人 在 外 面 工 作 他 沒 有 辦 法 回 到 部 落 他 說 部 落 的 A P P 有 個 同 意 的 一 個 按 鈕 的 話 他 就 就 s e n d 出 來 的 話 我 們 就 不 用 那 麼 費 金 心 思 的 來 開 部 落 會 議 而 且 部 落 會 議 每 次 開 都 開 不 成\n\n10\n00:03:50,137 --> 00:03:58,080\n原 住 民 族 土 地 使 用 規 則 。 大 家 都 很 擔 心 的 問 題 , 大 概 我 就 歸 類 一 下 。 第 一 個 , 現 在 他 到 底 可 以 解 決 我 什 麼 問 題 , 土 地 的 什 麼 問 題 。 第 二 個 是\n\n11\n00:04:14,406 --> 00:04:38,659\n我 既 有 的 土 地 的 保 障 跟 未 來 的 一 個 方 向 在 哪 裡 是 不 是 可 以 就 近 的 來 解 決 這 些 這 兩 個 問 題 就 好 現 在 你 變 成 1 4 年 5 月 1 號 實 施 以 後 我 的 土 地 可 以 解 決 什 麼 樣 的 問 題 第 二 個 是 我 現 在 的 土 地 的 保 障 跟 未 來 的 規 劃 這 樣 就 好 了 不 然 你 永 遠 都 卡 在 農 醫 農 人 這 些 老 人 家 根 本 就 不 知 道 在 講 在 講 什 麼 好 不 好\n\n12\n00:04:39,861 --> 00:05:02,970\n就 是 要 解 決 耕 作 的 這 個 耕 地 的 不 足 的 還 有 居 住 的 這 個 不 足 的 部 分 因 為 每 次 開 座 談 會 或 者 到 部 落 宣 導 的 時 候 聽 完 一 遍 他 頭 腦 又 暈 了 然 後 又 不 知 道 又 在 講 什 麼 但 是 就 針 對 他 個 人 的 部 分 會 不 會 改 變 就 好 了 是 不 是 這 樣 會 比 較 容 易 是 我 們 分 到 第 第 四 頁\n\n13\n00:05:04,949 --> 00:05:28,235\n就 都 市 原 住 民 發 展 的 部 分 我 是 希 望 說 我 們 現 在 的 那 個 原 住 民 地 區 大 概 都 是 用 合 作 社 的 方 式 嘛 那 是 不 是 就 都 我 們 都 越 來 越 多 剛 才 講 5 0 . 2 甚 至 已 經 我 們 招 委 說 已 經 到 6 5 了 是 不 是 我 們 可 以 規 劃 我 們 能 夠 變 成 原 住 民 的 銀 行 然 後 一 個 唯 利 無 論 是 唯 利 創 業 貸 款 唯 利 公 屋 住 宅 唯 利 的 一 個 創 業 貸 款 這 些\n\n14\n00:05:31,377 --> 00:05:39,154\n我 們 是 不 是 有 一 個 可 行 性 的 方 向 來 做 我 把 我 們 所 有 的 合 作 社 這 些 儲 蓄 合 作 社 能 夠 整 合 起 來 有 沒 有 這 樣 這 方 面 的 規 劃\n\n15\n00:05:44,025 --> 00:06:04,464\n委 員 報 告 那 針 對 原 住 民 綜 合 發 展 基 金 的 各 項 貸 款 其 實 我 們 有 分 有 事 業 型 貸 款 甚 至 在 儲 戶 社 都 有 相 關 的 那 我 是 希 望 說 我 們 能 夠 能 夠 朝 向 比 較 大 的 一 個 原 住 民 銀 行 的 來 來 去 跟 中 央 來 爭 取 經 費 了 不 然 你 只 是 這 樣 的 一 個\n\n16\n00:06:05,325 --> 00:06:26,779\n曾 經 我 覺 得 很 像 沒 有 辦 法 解 決 都 會 寫 那 個 問 題 可 以 嗎 我 們 努 力 一 下 不 好 意 思 第 二 個 就 是 我 們 原 住 民 就 醫 的 問 題 因 為 他 常 常 在 部 落 看 病 的 時 候 是 不 用 錢 可 是 到 都 會 去 看 病 就 用 錢 就 要 付 部 分 負 擔 跟 掛 號 費 我 希 望 他 的 身 份 不 會 因 為 他 到 了 都 會 他 就 不 是 原 住 民 了\n\n17\n00:06:27,319 --> 00:06:50,664\n所 以 希 望 他 這 個 部 分 能 夠 擴 展 到 我 在 原 住 民 地 區 看 病 不 用 錢 到 都 會 區 應 該 也 免 部 分 負 擔 這 個 要 來 規 劃 因 為 造 成 很 多 主 委 在 就 業 上 面 那 個 負 擔 跟 跟 那 個 所 謂 不 公 平 啦 因 為 他 在 他 在 原 住 民 地 區 本 來 就 不 用 錢 了 為 什 麼 到 平 基 到 到 長 庚 看 病 就 要 錢 呢 是 不 是 好 這 個 會 跟 衛 福 部 在 我 們 再 來 協 商 好 不 好\n\n18\n00:06:53,032 --> 00:07:19,325\n因 為 時 間 的 關 係 我 在 提 那 個 我 們 一 直 在 講 的 那 個 原 住 民 族 博 物 館 因 為 我 們 原 委 會 原 委 員 會 都 要 搬 到 桃 園 那 既 然 這 個 時 間 還 有 一 個 時 間 8 年 那 現 在 那 個 費 用 是 5 8 億 那 可 是 我 上 次 在 想 好 像 沒 有 聽 到 未 來 的 宿 舍 你 看 高 雄 長 庚 在 蓋 的 時 候 他 是 先 蓋 員 工 宿 舍 呢 那 我 們 國 立 那 個 博 物 館 他 應 該 也 要 有 啊\n\n19\n00:07:19,685 --> 00:07:34,395\n因 為 將 來 的 那 些 工 作 人 員 也 都 是 原 住 民 他 們 一 定 是 從 全 國 各 地 去 的 是 不 是 應 該 是 這 樣 朝 這 個 方 向 你 這 個 費 用 是 不 是 應 該 要 再 增 設 或 者 說 匡 列 這 個 我 們 未 來 員 工 的 一 個 住 宿 的 一 個 地 方\n\n20\n00:07:34,975 --> 00:08:02,362\n二 、 我 非 常 擔 心 它 的 設 計 元 素 沒 有 原 住 民 的 題 材 。 因 為 我 們 常 常 有 人 會 說 行 人 地 獄 , 就 是 我 們 目 前 國 人 的 那 個 都 市 的 那 個 道 路 常 常 會 覺 得 行 人 沒 辦 法 跑 步 , 沒 有 辦 法 很 安 全 。 然 後 甚 至 在 我 們 部 落 看 到 一 些 圖 騰 啊 , 根 本 就 不 是 那 個 族 群 的 , 然 後 那 個 顏 色 也 用 不 對 。 我 上 次 去 花 蓮 看 到 那 個 八 步 合 音 的 那 個 八 個 人 在 那 邊 唱 歌 的 , 那 個 很 像 是 西 安 人 在 唱 八 步 合 音 。 就 會 有 這 樣 的 一 個\n\n21\n00:08:04,163 --> 00:08:19,412\n謬 誤 啦 就 是 說 你 在 規 劃 設 計 的 元 素 應 該 要 很 審 慎 要 用 我 們 原 住 民 的 人 才 去 規 劃 未 來 的 一 個 方 向 不 是 去 國 家 博 物 館 看 的 時 候 很 像 很 像 是 去 一 般 的 博 物 館 根 本 就 沒 有 凸 顯 他 的 價 值 所 以 這 個 部 分 你 要 強 烈 的 要 求 可 以 嗎\n\n22\n00:08:20,377 --> 00:08:34,249\n會 因 為 我 們 籌 備 處 的 時 候 會 一 一 要 求 這 些 剛 才 委 員 所 提 的 一 些 最 後 一 頁 第 十 頁 就 是 關 於 我 們 原 住 民 歧 視 的 問 題 就 是 我 希 望 能 夠 比 照 性 騷 擾 這 個 部 分 很 多 人 在\n\n23\n00:08:35,410 --> 00:08:59,477\n一 般 的 工 作 地 方 ﹑ 崗 位 工 作 ﹑ 或 者 是 警 察 或 是 軍 人 都 會 受 到 歧 視 ﹑ 他 不 知 道 怎 麼 去 申 訴 。 我 們 的 學 生 也 是 一 樣 。 所 以 如 果 說 新 燒 肉 大 家 都 那 麼 重 視 , 我 覺 得 就 我 們 的 原 住 民 的 歧 視 應 該 要 一 般 跟 那 個 新 燒 肉 一 樣 的 一 個 重 視 的 一 個 等 級 , 不 然 會 造 成 我 們 很 多 人 沒 有 辦 法 好 好 的 說 出 他 心 裡 面 的 話 , 可 以 嗎 ? 可 以 。 來 這 樣 演 繹 , 謝 謝 。\n\n24\n00:09:03,410 --> 00:09:03,430\n盧 縣 一\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7643\t28958\t主席有請部長有請曾主委謝謝主委好恭喜你我們倆的家只限距離不到10公里所以應該可以很有良性的溝通那我們先從第一頁的業務報告來看好不好\n32577\t57486\t常常在翻譯的一個過程我覺得在一個中央部會層級的一個翻譯我覺得應該要很省慎所以我們就第一頁來看所以那個關於原住民族委員會這個部分我們的台灣語是巴達拉嘎嘎查理想可是巴達拉的部分我覺得應該是介系詞所以應該不可以跟嘎查理想放在一起所以那個\n59397\t83490\t關於Batara就是AboutIndigenous那就是說Batara Katsarishan把字放在一起的時候會覺得這個字非常冗長也就會針對我們的很多原住民的學生或者是一般人他要學原住民的時候會覺得很困難的地方就是單字太長可是並不是單字太長是因為你不知道怎麼給他分段落所以這個第一頁這個部分要提醒的部分是這個\n84502\t112069\t第二個是我希望主委能夠親自很大聲的念一下你的名字好不好在下面這個報告人這個部分這個下面是第一老鼠老鼠引入了再來老鼠引入了然後後面那個是那個名字是老鼠引入了對那為什麼後面還有這些這個是不對的吧\n115094\t116254\t主任委員主任委員主任委員\n147971\t166366\t懲罰身份認定這個部分我上次有提過臺東的平地三胞很多排灣族的平地三胞甚至是盧卡族的平地三胞其實他們是有意願成為山地三胞山地原住民那這個部分是不是在門檻上面能不能就意願來去申請如果說困難度是困難度在哪裡\n167594\t194730\t現在比如說大武鄉、太馬里鄉有很多是平原的可是它確實是我們的排灣族人的話你覺得有沒有一個在這一屆請能不能完成目前的根委包括目前的法令是不可以啦就是你被定你是山地原住民、平地原住民你不能就是說這個就不能按照它的意願嗎對因為現在我們已經要我們已經要解決平埔原住民的問題可不可以順便來解決這個問題因為這個問題是懸而未決\n200281\t209051\t是嗎?好,那我們來努力。第二個就是我們在取得原住民部落同意這個部分,他方式只有部落會議,目前是不是?\n210856\t229187\t是是所以我們可以可不可以用電訊的或者是簽同意書的或者是說有個部落的APP很多人在外面工作他沒有辦法回到部落他說部落的APP有個同意的一個按鈕的話他就就send出來的話我們就不用那麼費金心思的來開部落會議而且部落會議每次開都開不成\n230137\t238080\t原住民族土地使用規則。大家都很擔心的問題,大概我就歸類一下。第一個,現在他到底可以解決我什麼問題,土地的什麼問題。第二個是\n254406\t278659\t我既有的土地的保障跟未來的一個方向在哪裡是不是可以就近的來解決這些這兩個問題就好現在你變成14年5月1號實施以後我的土地可以解決什麼樣的問題第二個是我現在的土地的保障跟未來的規劃這樣就好了不然你永遠都卡在農醫農人這些老人家根本就不知道在講在講什麼好不好\n279861\t302970\t就是要解決耕作的這個耕地的不足的還有居住的這個不足的部分因為每次開座談會或者到部落宣導的時候聽完一遍他頭腦又暈了然後又不知道又在講什麼但是就針對他個人的部分會不會改變就好了是不是這樣會比較容易是我們分到第第四頁\n304949\t328235\t就都市原住民發展的部分我是希望說我們現在的那個原住民地區大概都是用合作社的方式嘛那是不是就都我們都越來越多剛才講50.2甚至已經我們招委說已經到65了是不是我們可以規劃我們能夠變成原住民的銀行然後一個唯利無論是唯利創業貸款唯利公屋住宅唯利的一個創業貸款這些\n331377\t339154\t我們是不是有一個可行性的方向來做我把我們所有的合作社這些儲蓄合作社能夠整合起來有沒有這樣這方面的規劃\n344025\t364464\t委員報告那針對原住民綜合發展基金的各項貸款其實我們有分有事業型貸款甚至在儲戶社都有相關的那我是希望說我們能夠能夠朝向比較大的一個原住民銀行的來來去跟中央來爭取經費了不然你只是這樣的一個\n365325\t386779\t曾經我覺得很像沒有辦法解決都會寫那個問題可以嗎我們努力一下不好意思第二個就是我們原住民就醫的問題因為他常常在部落看病的時候是不用錢可是到都會去看病就用錢就要付部分負擔跟掛號費我希望他的身份不會因為他到了都會他就不是原住民了\n387319\t410664\t所以希望他這個部分能夠擴展到我在原住民地區看病不用錢到都會區應該也免部分負擔這個要來規劃因為造成很多主委在就業上面那個負擔跟跟那個所謂不公平啦因為他在他在原住民地區本來就不用錢了為什麼到平基到到長庚看病就要錢呢是不是好這個會跟衛福部在我們再來協商好不好\n413032\t439325\t因為時間的關係我在提那個我們一直在講的那個原住民族博物館因為我們原委會原委員會都要搬到桃園那既然這個時間還有一個時間8年那現在那個費用是58億那可是我上次在想好像沒有聽到未來的宿舍你看高雄長庚在蓋的時候他是先蓋員工宿舍呢那我們國立那個博物館他應該也要有啊\n439685\t454395\t因為將來的那些工作人員也都是原住民他們一定是從全國各地去的是不是應該是這樣朝這個方向你這個費用是不是應該要再增設或者說匡列這個我們未來員工的一個住宿的一個地方\n454975\t482362\t二、我非常擔心它的設計元素沒有原住民的題材。因為我們常常有人會說行人地獄,就是我們目前國人的那個都市的那個道路常常會覺得行人沒辦法跑步,沒有辦法很安全。然後甚至在我們部落看到一些圖騰啊,根本就不是那個族群的,然後那個顏色也用不對。我上次去花蓮看到那個八步合音的那個八個人在那邊唱歌的,那個很像是西安人在唱八步合音。就會有這樣的一個\n484163\t499412\t謬誤啦就是說你在規劃設計的元素應該要很審慎要用我們原住民的人才去規劃未來的一個方向不是去國家博物館看的時候很像很像是去一般的博物館根本就沒有凸顯他的價值所以這個部分你要強烈的要求可以嗎\n500377\t514249\t會 因為我們籌備處的時候會一一要求這些剛才委員所提的一些最後一頁第十頁就是關於我們原住民歧視的問題就是我希望能夠比照性騷擾這個部分很多人在\n515410\t539477\t一般的工作地方﹑崗位工作﹑或者是警察或是軍人都會受到歧視﹑他不知道怎麼去申訴。我們的學生也是一樣。所以如果說新燒肉大家都那麼重視,我覺得就我們的原住民的歧視應該要一般跟那個新燒肉一樣的一個重視的一個等級,不然會造成我們很多人沒有辦法好好的說出他心裡面的話,可以嗎?可以。來這樣演繹,謝謝。\n543410\t543430\t盧縣一\n","txt":"主席有請部長有請曾主委謝謝主委好恭喜你我們倆的家只限距離不到10公里所以應該可以很有良性的溝通那我們先從第一頁的業務報告來看好不好\n常常在翻譯的一個過程我覺得在一個中央部會層級的一個翻譯我覺得應該要很省慎所以我們就第一頁來看所以那個關於原住民族委員會這個部分我們的台灣語是巴達拉嘎嘎查理想可是巴達拉的部分我覺得應該是介系詞所以應該不可以跟嘎查理想放在一起所以那個\n關於Batara就是AboutIndigenous那就是說Batara Katsarishan把字放在一起的時候會覺得這個字非常冗長也就會針對我們的很多原住民的學生或者是一般人他要學原住民的時候會覺得很困難的地方就是單字太長可是並不是單字太長是因為你不知道怎麼給他分段落所以這個第一頁這個部分要提醒的部分是這個\n第二個是我希望主委能夠親自很大聲的念一下你的名字好不好在下面這個報告人這個部分這個下面是第一老鼠老鼠引入了再來老鼠引入了然後後面那個是那個名字是老鼠引入了對那為什麼後面還有這些這個是不對的吧\n主任委員主任委員主任委員\n懲罰身份認定這個部分我上次有提過臺東的平地三胞很多排灣族的平地三胞甚至是盧卡族的平地三胞其實他們是有意願成為山地三胞山地原住民那這個部分是不是在門檻上面能不能就意願來去申請如果說困難度是困難度在哪裡\n現在比如說大武鄉、太馬里鄉有很多是平原的可是它確實是我們的排灣族人的話你覺得有沒有一個在這一屆請能不能完成目前的根委包括目前的法令是不可以啦就是你被定你是山地原住民、平地原住民你不能就是說這個就不能按照它的意願嗎對因為現在我們已經要我們已經要解決平埔原住民的問題可不可以順便來解決這個問題因為這個問題是懸而未決\n是嗎?好,那我們來努力。第二個就是我們在取得原住民部落同意這個部分,他方式只有部落會議,目前是不是?\n是是所以我們可以可不可以用電訊的或者是簽同意書的或者是說有個部落的APP很多人在外面工作他沒有辦法回到部落他說部落的APP有個同意的一個按鈕的話他就就send出來的話我們就不用那麼費金心思的來開部落會議而且部落會議每次開都開不成\n原住民族土地使用規則。大家都很擔心的問題,大概我就歸類一下。第一個,現在他到底可以解決我什麼問題,土地的什麼問題。第二個是\n我既有的土地的保障跟未來的一個方向在哪裡是不是可以就近的來解決這些這兩個問題就好現在你變成14年5月1號實施以後我的土地可以解決什麼樣的問題第二個是我現在的土地的保障跟未來的規劃這樣就好了不然你永遠都卡在農醫農人這些老人家根本就不知道在講在講什麼好不好\n就是要解決耕作的這個耕地的不足的還有居住的這個不足的部分因為每次開座談會或者到部落宣導的時候聽完一遍他頭腦又暈了然後又不知道又在講什麼但是就針對他個人的部分會不會改變就好了是不是這樣會比較容易是我們分到第第四頁\n就都市原住民發展的部分我是希望說我們現在的那個原住民地區大概都是用合作社的方式嘛那是不是就都我們都越來越多剛才講50.2甚至已經我們招委說已經到65了是不是我們可以規劃我們能夠變成原住民的銀行然後一個唯利無論是唯利創業貸款唯利公屋住宅唯利的一個創業貸款這些\n我們是不是有一個可行性的方向來做我把我們所有的合作社這些儲蓄合作社能夠整合起來有沒有這樣這方面的規劃\n委員報告那針對原住民綜合發展基金的各項貸款其實我們有分有事業型貸款甚至在儲戶社都有相關的那我是希望說我們能夠能夠朝向比較大的一個原住民銀行的來來去跟中央來爭取經費了不然你只是這樣的一個\n曾經我覺得很像沒有辦法解決都會寫那個問題可以嗎我們努力一下不好意思第二個就是我們原住民就醫的問題因為他常常在部落看病的時候是不用錢可是到都會去看病就用錢就要付部分負擔跟掛號費我希望他的身份不會因為他到了都會他就不是原住民了\n所以希望他這個部分能夠擴展到我在原住民地區看病不用錢到都會區應該也免部分負擔這個要來規劃因為造成很多主委在就業上面那個負擔跟跟那個所謂不公平啦因為他在他在原住民地區本來就不用錢了為什麼到平基到到長庚看病就要錢呢是不是好這個會跟衛福部在我們再來協商好不好\n因為時間的關係我在提那個我們一直在講的那個原住民族博物館因為我們原委會原委員會都要搬到桃園那既然這個時間還有一個時間8年那現在那個費用是58億那可是我上次在想好像沒有聽到未來的宿舍你看高雄長庚在蓋的時候他是先蓋員工宿舍呢那我們國立那個博物館他應該也要有啊\n因為將來的那些工作人員也都是原住民他們一定是從全國各地去的是不是應該是這樣朝這個方向你這個費用是不是應該要再增設或者說匡列這個我們未來員工的一個住宿的一個地方\n二、我非常擔心它的設計元素沒有原住民的題材。因為我們常常有人會說行人地獄,就是我們目前國人的那個都市的那個道路常常會覺得行人沒辦法跑步,沒有辦法很安全。然後甚至在我們部落看到一些圖騰啊,根本就不是那個族群的,然後那個顏色也用不對。我上次去花蓮看到那個八步合音的那個八個人在那邊唱歌的,那個很像是西安人在唱八步合音。就會有這樣的一個\n謬誤啦就是說你在規劃設計的元素應該要很審慎要用我們原住民的人才去規劃未來的一個方向不是去國家博物館看的時候很像很像是去一般的博物館根本就沒有凸顯他的價值所以這個部分你要強烈的要求可以嗎\n會 因為我們籌備處的時候會一一要求這些剛才委員所提的一些最後一頁第十頁就是關於我們原住民歧視的問題就是我希望能夠比照性騷擾這個部分很多人在\n一般的工作地方﹑崗位工作﹑或者是警察或是軍人都會受到歧視﹑他不知道怎麼去申訴。我們的學生也是一樣。所以如果說新燒肉大家都那麼重視,我覺得就我們的原住民的歧視應該要一般跟那個新燒肉一樣的一個重視的一個等級,不然會造成我們很多人沒有辦法好好的說出他心裡面的話,可以嗎?可以。來這樣演繹,謝謝。\n盧縣一\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.643 --> 00:28.958\n主 席 有 請 部 長 有 請 曾 主 委 謝 謝 主 委 好 恭 喜 你 我 們 倆 的 家 只 限 距 離 不 到 1 0 公 里 所 以 應 該 可 以 很 有 良 性 的 溝 通 那 我 們 先 從 第 一 頁 的 業 務 報 告 來 看 好 不 好\n\n00:32.577 --> 00:57.486\n常 常 在 翻 譯 的 一 個 過 程 我 覺 得 在 一 個 中 央 部 會 層 級 的 一 個 翻 譯 我 覺 得 應 該 要 很 省 慎 所 以 我 們 就 第 一 頁 來 看 所 以 那 個 關 於 原 住 民 族 委 員 會 這 個 部 分 我 們 的 台 灣 語 是 巴 達 拉 嘎 嘎 查 理 想 可 是 巴 達 拉 的 部 分 我 覺 得 應 該 是 介 系 詞 所 以 應 該 不 可 以 跟 嘎 查 理 想 放 在 一 起 所 以 那 個\n\n00:59.397 --> 01:23.490\n關 於 B a t a r a 就 是 A b o u t I n d i g e n o u s 那 就 是 說 B a t a r a K a t s a r i s h a n 把 字 放 在 一 起 的 時 候 會 覺 得 這 個 字 非 常 冗 長 也 就 會 針 對 我 們 的 很 多 原 住 民 的 學 生 或 者 是 一 般 人 他 要 學 原 住 民 的 時 候 會 覺 得 很 困 難 的 地 方 就 是 單 字 太 長 可 是 並 不 是 單 字 太 長 是 因 為 你 不 知 道 怎 麼 給 他 分 段 落 所 以 這 個 第 一 頁 這 個 部 分 要 提 醒 的 部 分 是 這 個\n\n01:24.502 --> 01:52.069\n第 二 個 是 我 希 望 主 委 能 夠 親 自 很 大 聲 的 念 一 下 你 的 名 字 好 不 好 在 下 面 這 個 報 告 人 這 個 部 分 這 個 下 面 是 第 一 老 鼠 老 鼠 引 入 了 再 來 老 鼠 引 入 了 然 後 後 面 那 個 是 那 個 名 字 是 老 鼠 引 入 了 對 那 為 什 麼 後 面 還 有 這 些 這 個 是 不 對 的 吧\n\n01:55.094 --> 01:56.254\n主 任 委 員 主 任 委 員 主 任 委 員\n\n02:27.971 --> 02:46.366\n懲 罰 身 份 認 定 這 個 部 分 我 上 次 有 提 過 臺 東 的 平 地 三 胞 很 多 排 灣 族 的 平 地 三 胞 甚 至 是 盧 卡 族 的 平 地 三 胞 其 實 他 們 是 有 意 願 成 為 山 地 三 胞 山 地 原 住 民 那 這 個 部 分 是 不 是 在 門 檻 上 面 能 不 能 就 意 願 來 去 申 請 如 果 說 困 難 度 是 困 難 度 在 哪 裡\n\n02:47.594 --> 03:14.730\n現 在 比 如 說 大 武 鄉 、 太 馬 里 鄉 有 很 多 是 平 原 的 可 是 它 確 實 是 我 們 的 排 灣 族 人 的 話 你 覺 得 有 沒 有 一 個 在 這 一 屆 請 能 不 能 完 成 目 前 的 根 委 包 括 目 前 的 法 令 是 不 可 以 啦 就 是 你 被 定 你 是 山 地 原 住 民 、 平 地 原 住 民 你 不 能 就 是 說 這 個 就 不 能 按 照 它 的 意 願 嗎 對 因 為 現 在 我 們 已 經 要 我 們 已 經 要 解 決 平 埔 原 住 民 的 問 題 可 不 可 以 順 便 來 解 決 這 個 問 題 因 為 這 個 問 題 是 懸 而 未 決\n\n03:20.281 --> 03:29.051\n是 嗎 ? 好 , 那 我 們 來 努 力 。 第 二 個 就 是 我 們 在 取 得 原 住 民 部 落 同 意 這 個 部 分 , 他 方 式 只 有 部 落 會 議 , 目 前 是 不 是 ?\n\n03:30.856 --> 03:49.187\n是 是 所 以 我 們 可 以 可 不 可 以 用 電 訊 的 或 者 是 簽 同 意 書 的 或 者 是 說 有 個 部 落 的 A P P 很 多 人 在 外 面 工 作 他 沒 有 辦 法 回 到 部 落 他 說 部 落 的 A P P 有 個 同 意 的 一 個 按 鈕 的 話 他 就 就 s e n d 出 來 的 話 我 們 就 不 用 那 麼 費 金 心 思 的 來 開 部 落 會 議 而 且 部 落 會 議 每 次 開 都 開 不 成\n\n03:50.137 --> 03:58.080\n原 住 民 族 土 地 使 用 規 則 。 大 家 都 很 擔 心 的 問 題 , 大 概 我 就 歸 類 一 下 。 第 一 個 , 現 在 他 到 底 可 以 解 決 我 什 麼 問 題 , 土 地 的 什 麼 問 題 。 第 二 個 是\n\n04:14.406 --> 04:38.659\n我 既 有 的 土 地 的 保 障 跟 未 來 的 一 個 方 向 在 哪 裡 是 不 是 可 以 就 近 的 來 解 決 這 些 這 兩 個 問 題 就 好 現 在 你 變 成 1 4 年 5 月 1 號 實 施 以 後 我 的 土 地 可 以 解 決 什 麼 樣 的 問 題 第 二 個 是 我 現 在 的 土 地 的 保 障 跟 未 來 的 規 劃 這 樣 就 好 了 不 然 你 永 遠 都 卡 在 農 醫 農 人 這 些 老 人 家 根 本 就 不 知 道 在 講 在 講 什 麼 好 不 好\n\n04:39.861 --> 05:02.970\n就 是 要 解 決 耕 作 的 這 個 耕 地 的 不 足 的 還 有 居 住 的 這 個 不 足 的 部 分 因 為 每 次 開 座 談 會 或 者 到 部 落 宣 導 的 時 候 聽 完 一 遍 他 頭 腦 又 暈 了 然 後 又 不 知 道 又 在 講 什 麼 但 是 就 針 對 他 個 人 的 部 分 會 不 會 改 變 就 好 了 是 不 是 這 樣 會 比 較 容 易 是 我 們 分 到 第 第 四 頁\n\n05:04.949 --> 05:28.235\n就 都 市 原 住 民 發 展 的 部 分 我 是 希 望 說 我 們 現 在 的 那 個 原 住 民 地 區 大 概 都 是 用 合 作 社 的 方 式 嘛 那 是 不 是 就 都 我 們 都 越 來 越 多 剛 才 講 5 0 . 2 甚 至 已 經 我 們 招 委 說 已 經 到 6 5 了 是 不 是 我 們 可 以 規 劃 我 們 能 夠 變 成 原 住 民 的 銀 行 然 後 一 個 唯 利 無 論 是 唯 利 創 業 貸 款 唯 利 公 屋 住 宅 唯 利 的 一 個 創 業 貸 款 這 些\n\n05:31.377 --> 05:39.154\n我 們 是 不 是 有 一 個 可 行 性 的 方 向 來 做 我 把 我 們 所 有 的 合 作 社 這 些 儲 蓄 合 作 社 能 夠 整 合 起 來 有 沒 有 這 樣 這 方 面 的 規 劃\n\n05:44.025 --> 06:04.464\n委 員 報 告 那 針 對 原 住 民 綜 合 發 展 基 金 的 各 項 貸 款 其 實 我 們 有 分 有 事 業 型 貸 款 甚 至 在 儲 戶 社 都 有 相 關 的 那 我 是 希 望 說 我 們 能 夠 能 夠 朝 向 比 較 大 的 一 個 原 住 民 銀 行 的 來 來 去 跟 中 央 來 爭 取 經 費 了 不 然 你 只 是 這 樣 的 一 個\n\n06:05.325 --> 06:26.779\n曾 經 我 覺 得 很 像 沒 有 辦 法 解 決 都 會 寫 那 個 問 題 可 以 嗎 我 們 努 力 一 下 不 好 意 思 第 二 個 就 是 我 們 原 住 民 就 醫 的 問 題 因 為 他 常 常 在 部 落 看 病 的 時 候 是 不 用 錢 可 是 到 都 會 去 看 病 就 用 錢 就 要 付 部 分 負 擔 跟 掛 號 費 我 希 望 他 的 身 份 不 會 因 為 他 到 了 都 會 他 就 不 是 原 住 民 了\n\n06:27.319 --> 06:50.664\n所 以 希 望 他 這 個 部 分 能 夠 擴 展 到 我 在 原 住 民 地 區 看 病 不 用 錢 到 都 會 區 應 該 也 免 部 分 負 擔 這 個 要 來 規 劃 因 為 造 成 很 多 主 委 在 就 業 上 面 那 個 負 擔 跟 跟 那 個 所 謂 不 公 平 啦 因 為 他 在 他 在 原 住 民 地 區 本 來 就 不 用 錢 了 為 什 麼 到 平 基 到 到 長 庚 看 病 就 要 錢 呢 是 不 是 好 這 個 會 跟 衛 福 部 在 我 們 再 來 協 商 好 不 好\n\n06:53.032 --> 07:19.325\n因 為 時 間 的 關 係 我 在 提 那 個 我 們 一 直 在 講 的 那 個 原 住 民 族 博 物 館 因 為 我 們 原 委 會 原 委 員 會 都 要 搬 到 桃 園 那 既 然 這 個 時 間 還 有 一 個 時 間 8 年 那 現 在 那 個 費 用 是 5 8 億 那 可 是 我 上 次 在 想 好 像 沒 有 聽 到 未 來 的 宿 舍 你 看 高 雄 長 庚 在 蓋 的 時 候 他 是 先 蓋 員 工 宿 舍 呢 那 我 們 國 立 那 個 博 物 館 他 應 該 也 要 有 啊\n\n07:19.685 --> 07:34.395\n因 為 將 來 的 那 些 工 作 人 員 也 都 是 原 住 民 他 們 一 定 是 從 全 國 各 地 去 的 是 不 是 應 該 是 這 樣 朝 這 個 方 向 你 這 個 費 用 是 不 是 應 該 要 再 增 設 或 者 說 匡 列 這 個 我 們 未 來 員 工 的 一 個 住 宿 的 一 個 地 方\n\n07:34.975 --> 08:02.362\n二 、 我 非 常 擔 心 它 的 設 計 元 素 沒 有 原 住 民 的 題 材 。 因 為 我 們 常 常 有 人 會 說 行 人 地 獄 , 就 是 我 們 目 前 國 人 的 那 個 都 市 的 那 個 道 路 常 常 會 覺 得 行 人 沒 辦 法 跑 步 , 沒 有 辦 法 很 安 全 。 然 後 甚 至 在 我 們 部 落 看 到 一 些 圖 騰 啊 , 根 本 就 不 是 那 個 族 群 的 , 然 後 那 個 顏 色 也 用 不 對 。 我 上 次 去 花 蓮 看 到 那 個 八 步 合 音 的 那 個 八 個 人 在 那 邊 唱 歌 的 , 那 個 很 像 是 西 安 人 在 唱 八 步 合 音 。 就 會 有 這 樣 的 一 個\n\n08:04.163 --> 08:19.412\n謬 誤 啦 就 是 說 你 在 規 劃 設 計 的 元 素 應 該 要 很 審 慎 要 用 我 們 原 住 民 的 人 才 去 規 劃 未 來 的 一 個 方 向 不 是 去 國 家 博 物 館 看 的 時 候 很 像 很 像 是 去 一 般 的 博 物 館 根 本 就 沒 有 凸 顯 他 的 價 值 所 以 這 個 部 分 你 要 強 烈 的 要 求 可 以 嗎\n\n08:20.377 --> 08:34.249\n會 因 為 我 們 籌 備 處 的 時 候 會 一 一 要 求 這 些 剛 才 委 員 所 提 的 一 些 最 後 一 頁 第 十 頁 就 是 關 於 我 們 原 住 民 歧 視 的 問 題 就 是 我 希 望 能 夠 比 照 性 騷 擾 這 個 部 分 很 多 人 在\n\n08:35.410 --> 08:59.477\n一 般 的 工 作 地 方 ﹑ 崗 位 工 作 ﹑ 或 者 是 警 察 或 是 軍 人 都 會 受 到 歧 視 ﹑ 他 不 知 道 怎 麼 去 申 訴 。 我 們 的 學 生 也 是 一 樣 。 所 以 如 果 說 新 燒 肉 大 家 都 那 麼 重 視 , 我 覺 得 就 我 們 的 原 住 民 的 歧 視 應 該 要 一 般 跟 那 個 新 燒 肉 一 樣 的 一 個 重 視 的 一 個 等 級 , 不 然 會 造 成 我 們 很 多 人 沒 有 辦 法 好 好 的 說 出 他 心 裡 面 的 話 , 可 以 嗎 ? 可 以 。 來 這 樣 演 繹 , 謝 謝 。\n\n09:03.410 --> 09:03.430\n盧 縣 一\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.643,"end":28.958,"text":"主席有請部長有請曾主委謝謝主委好恭喜你我們倆的家只限距離不到10公里所以應該可以很有良性的溝通那我們先從第一頁的業務報告來看好不好"},{"start":32.577,"end":57.486,"text":"常常在翻譯的一個過程我覺得在一個中央部會層級的一個翻譯我覺得應該要很省慎所以我們就第一頁來看所以那個關於原住民族委員會這個部分我們的台灣語是巴達拉嘎嘎查理想可是巴達拉的部分我覺得應該是介系詞所以應該不可以跟嘎查理想放在一起所以那個"},{"start":59.397,"end":83.49,"text":"關於Batara就是AboutIndigenous那就是說Batara Katsarishan把字放在一起的時候會覺得這個字非常冗長也就會針對我們的很多原住民的學生或者是一般人他要學原住民的時候會覺得很困難的地方就是單字太長可是並不是單字太長是因為你不知道怎麼給他分段落所以這個第一頁這個部分要提醒的部分是這個"},{"start":84.502,"end":112.069,"text":"第二個是我希望主委能夠親自很大聲的念一下你的名字好不好在下面這個報告人這個部分這個下面是第一老鼠老鼠引入了再來老鼠引入了然後後面那個是那個名字是老鼠引入了對那為什麼後面還有這些這個是不對的吧"},{"start":115.094,"end":116.254,"text":"主任委員主任委員主任委員"},{"start":147.971,"end":166.366,"text":"懲罰身份認定這個部分我上次有提過臺東的平地三胞很多排灣族的平地三胞甚至是盧卡族的平地三胞其實他們是有意願成為山地三胞山地原住民那這個部分是不是在門檻上面能不能就意願來去申請如果說困難度是困難度在哪裡"},{"start":167.594,"end":194.73,"text":"現在比如說大武鄉、太馬里鄉有很多是平原的可是它確實是我們的排灣族人的話你覺得有沒有一個在這一屆請能不能完成目前的根委包括目前的法令是不可以啦就是你被定你是山地原住民、平地原住民你不能就是說這個就不能按照它的意願嗎對因為現在我們已經要我們已經要解決平埔原住民的問題可不可以順便來解決這個問題因為這個問題是懸而未決"},{"start":200.281,"end":209.051,"text":"是嗎?好,那我們來努力。第二個就是我們在取得原住民部落同意這個部分,他方式只有部落會議,目前是不是?"},{"start":210.856,"end":229.187,"text":"是是所以我們可以可不可以用電訊的或者是簽同意書的或者是說有個部落的APP很多人在外面工作他沒有辦法回到部落他說部落的APP有個同意的一個按鈕的話他就就send出來的話我們就不用那麼費金心思的來開部落會議而且部落會議每次開都開不成"},{"start":230.137,"end":238.08,"text":"原住民族土地使用規則。大家都很擔心的問題,大概我就歸類一下。第一個,現在他到底可以解決我什麼問題,土地的什麼問題。第二個是"},{"start":254.406,"end":278.659,"text":"我既有的土地的保障跟未來的一個方向在哪裡是不是可以就近的來解決這些這兩個問題就好現在你變成14年5月1號實施以後我的土地可以解決什麼樣的問題第二個是我現在的土地的保障跟未來的規劃這樣就好了不然你永遠都卡在農醫農人這些老人家根本就不知道在講在講什麼好不好"},{"start":279.861,"end":302.97,"text":"就是要解決耕作的這個耕地的不足的還有居住的這個不足的部分因為每次開座談會或者到部落宣導的時候聽完一遍他頭腦又暈了然後又不知道又在講什麼但是就針對他個人的部分會不會改變就好了是不是這樣會比較容易是我們分到第第四頁"},{"start":304.949,"end":328.235,"text":"就都市原住民發展的部分我是希望說我們現在的那個原住民地區大概都是用合作社的方式嘛那是不是就都我們都越來越多剛才講50.2甚至已經我們招委說已經到65了是不是我們可以規劃我們能夠變成原住民的銀行然後一個唯利無論是唯利創業貸款唯利公屋住宅唯利的一個創業貸款這些"},{"start":331.377,"end":339.154,"text":"我們是不是有一個可行性的方向來做我把我們所有的合作社這些儲蓄合作社能夠整合起來有沒有這樣這方面的規劃"},{"start":344.025,"end":364.464,"text":"委員報告那針對原住民綜合發展基金的各項貸款其實我們有分有事業型貸款甚至在儲戶社都有相關的那我是希望說我們能夠能夠朝向比較大的一個原住民銀行的來來去跟中央來爭取經費了不然你只是這樣的一個"},{"start":365.325,"end":386.779,"text":"曾經我覺得很像沒有辦法解決都會寫那個問題可以嗎我們努力一下不好意思第二個就是我們原住民就醫的問題因為他常常在部落看病的時候是不用錢可是到都會去看病就用錢就要付部分負擔跟掛號費我希望他的身份不會因為他到了都會他就不是原住民了"},{"start":387.319,"end":410.664,"text":"所以希望他這個部分能夠擴展到我在原住民地區看病不用錢到都會區應該也免部分負擔這個要來規劃因為造成很多主委在就業上面那個負擔跟跟那個所謂不公平啦因為他在他在原住民地區本來就不用錢了為什麼到平基到到長庚看病就要錢呢是不是好這個會跟衛福部在我們再來協商好不好"},{"start":413.032,"end":439.325,"text":"因為時間的關係我在提那個我們一直在講的那個原住民族博物館因為我們原委會原委員會都要搬到桃園那既然這個時間還有一個時間8年那現在那個費用是58億那可是我上次在想好像沒有聽到未來的宿舍你看高雄長庚在蓋的時候他是先蓋員工宿舍呢那我們國立那個博物館他應該也要有啊"},{"start":439.685,"end":454.395,"text":"因為將來的那些工作人員也都是原住民他們一定是從全國各地去的是不是應該是這樣朝這個方向你這個費用是不是應該要再增設或者說匡列這個我們未來員工的一個住宿的一個地方"},{"start":454.975,"end":482.362,"text":"二、我非常擔心它的設計元素沒有原住民的題材。因為我們常常有人會說行人地獄,就是我們目前國人的那個都市的那個道路常常會覺得行人沒辦法跑步,沒有辦法很安全。然後甚至在我們部落看到一些圖騰啊,根本就不是那個族群的,然後那個顏色也用不對。我上次去花蓮看到那個八步合音的那個八個人在那邊唱歌的,那個很像是西安人在唱八步合音。就會有這樣的一個"},{"start":484.163,"end":499.412,"text":"謬誤啦就是說你在規劃設計的元素應該要很審慎要用我們原住民的人才去規劃未來的一個方向不是去國家博物館看的時候很像很像是去一般的博物館根本就沒有凸顯他的價值所以這個部分你要強烈的要求可以嗎"},{"start":500.377,"end":514.249,"text":"會 因為我們籌備處的時候會一一要求這些剛才委員所提的一些最後一頁第十頁就是關於我們原住民歧視的問題就是我希望能夠比照性騷擾這個部分很多人在"},{"start":515.41,"end":539.477,"text":"一般的工作地方﹑崗位工作﹑或者是警察或是軍人都會受到歧視﹑他不知道怎麼去申訴。我們的學生也是一樣。所以如果說新燒肉大家都那麼重視,我覺得就我們的原住民的歧視應該要一般跟那個新燒肉一樣的一個重視的一個等級,不然會造成我們很多人沒有辦法好好的說出他心裡面的話,可以嗎?可以。來這樣演繹,謝謝。"},{"start":543.41,"end":543.43,"text":"盧縣一"}]}}}}