{"id":153392,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153392","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/bbbc431469b8aeba3dea2aa9ad92d486ea2e07370b40154b446d6a815e9137445539fcaadf5c76f55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊曜","委員發言時間":"11:39:12 - 11:49:48","影片長度":"00:10:36","會議時間":"2024-05-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、委員許宇甄等22人擬具「老人福利法增訂第二十二條之一條文草案」案。\n二、委員馬文君等16人擬具「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n四、國民黨黨團擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員黃健豪等17人擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員王育敏等19人擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n七、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「老人福利法第二十二條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n【第七案，如經復議，則不予審查】）","date":"2024-05-30","start_time":"2024-05-30T11:39:12+08:00","end_time":"2024-05-30T11:49:48+08:00","duration":636,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":19,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-19"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":818,"blocks":[["楊委員曜：（11時39分）謝謝主席，我請呂次長。"],["主席：請呂次長。"],["楊委員曜：次長，我們今天審議老人福利法第二十二條跟第二十五條的修正草案。"],["呂次長建德：是。"],["楊委員曜：有關健保費補助的部分，我想要先提一個問題。我們健保投保分為六類的投保對象，對不對？"],["呂次長建德：對，6類15目。"],["楊委員曜：我覺得與其從年齡來做劃分，第6類的投保對象通常都是經濟比較弱勢的，可能是沒有雇主的也可能是榮民榮眷，就你們現在的瞭解，第6類投保對象的保費對其造成的經濟負擔是怎麼樣？"],["呂次長建德：非常感謝委員對於這部分的關心，我想這有兩個重點，第一個就是我們現在確實就是6類15目，第6類基本上就是屬於地區人口，剛剛委員所說沒有任何職業或是無一定雇主等這些就會歸於這類，但是我也必須要說，第6類的樣態其實非常複雜，雖然是有剛剛委員所說無一定雇主的情形，但老實說有一些家裡是自營商的其實也歸在這裡面，所以之前薛部長確實也有承諾對於第6類也就是有關弱勢的部分，我們這邊會趕快研議因應的措施。"],["楊委員曜：或者是你們把第6類再細分一下，對真的有需要的人，我覺得我們還是必須要優先給予補助。"],["呂次長建德：我可以跟委員報告一下，就是這裡面其實也牽涉到社會救助法，該法中有分低收入戶、中低收入戶，低收入戶中又分一、二、三款，社會救助法對低收入戶的規定包含了有無動產、不動產還有設算所得，但是我們知道這當中有一些是屬於所謂的近貧，是真正很窮困的家庭，但是因為他家裡有一間房子就被排除在外，我們現在在考量是不是可以儘可能把這些條件放寬。"],["楊委員曜：其實我還滿高興聽到次長提到這一點，我覺得臺灣的各項福利政策落實得還不錯，所以最需要去關注的反而是邊緣戶的這些人。"],["呂次長建德：沒錯。"],["楊委員曜：那你們就趕快回去研議，假如是第6類然後不是比較特殊的這些自營商之類的，然後又沒有福保的，你們就把他獨立出來，我覺得這個是最需要而且是不分年齡的，是以家庭來看。"],["呂次長建德：委員的意見真的非常好，必須要說真的非常佩服委員的這個意見。是否允許我們趕快把您剛剛說的特殊的、近貧的部分一些相關規定予以放寬，我想將這個部分納入確實是能幫助最需要幫助的民眾，我也非常佩服委員的這個高見。謝謝！"],["楊委員曜：本席這邊看到的資料是根據衛福部統計，假如全面補助65歲以上長者的健保費，中央必須要增加400億元？"],["呂次長建德：大約359億元，跟委員報告，因為我們現在高齡化……"],["楊委員曜：那個會跳得很快。"],["呂次長建德：預估到2054年會增加到627億元。"],["楊委員曜：你說多少？"],["呂次長建德：2054年。"],["楊委員曜：那就是30年後。"],["呂次長建德：對，屆時會增加到627億元，等於double，這樣其實會排擠掉我們目前已經推動的很多政策，比如長照3.0等的費用。"],["楊委員曜：所以假如這個法通過了，還是要用公務預算來編列。對不對？"],["呂次長建德：那是當然。"],["楊委員曜：好，其他的等一下討論法條的時候再講。","再請問一下，勞動部在5月初預告了外國人從事就業服務法第四十六條的修正，內容大概是允許外國人可以在臺灣取得社工師的執照。"],["呂次長建德：是的，沒錯。"],["楊委員曜：可是沒有辦法工作啊！是不是？他考取了不能工作嗎？"],["呂次長建德：我們現在已經預告了，準備要來放寬。我知道這裡面很多事實上就等於是僑生，我覺得這也很好，因為我們的社會工作裡面也有一些是針對新住民等等，他需要有一些文化敏感度，其實若能由他們去做，在語言上面會有很多的共通性，所以我想這個我們會來放寬。"],["楊委員曜：我的看法是假如我們允許他參加國考，就沒有道理不讓他投入社工師的工作行列，對不對？"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，這部分我們確實已經完成預告，會朝放寬的方向來進行，這個確實也是對於我們本國的社會工作人力一個很好的補充，這個很好。"],["楊委員曜：對，至於說文化的差異，我覺得那個是在考試之前要訓練的，據我所知，要參加社工師的國考必須先要有400個小時的實習。"],["呂次長建德：對，沒錯。"],["楊委員曜：在這400個小時實習時間裡，他大概就會有適度的融入。同樣的本席還要關心一下社工師，就是社工師以及社工人員的工作量愈來愈大，他會長期累積負能量，他在從事個案服務的時候，有可能會出現太投入或長期在負能量陰影底下生活的情形，所以他會有替代性創傷的可能，伴隨著憂鬱、緊張、焦慮等情緒，這個會嚴重影響從事社工行列人員的生涯和身心的發展，可是心理諮商的費用又很高，我們有什麼方法可以在財力、人力上幫助這一群代表國家社會照顧那些需要關懷者的人？我一直覺得臺灣的重點都在被照顧者，但其實照顧者本身的問題也不少，次長對這部分有什麼想法？大概講一下就好了。"],["呂次長建德：非常感謝委員對於社工人員的關心，有關社工的勞動條件，包括委員提到的最重要是心理諮商，據我所知，其實像主席王育敏委員過去也是社工方面出身，對這塊非常非常關心。關於這個部分，我們大概有兩個重點，第一個就是從107年起，我們用公益彩券的回饋金補助提升社工人員執業安全計畫，這裡面包括對我們社工師的社會心理諮商，甚至還包括律師諮詢費，這些費用都從這個帳戶來支付。第二個是我們從去年開始有一個心理健康師，針對15到30歲的民眾，都有3次的免費心理諮商機會，這樣子雙管齊下，當然我認為這些對我們社工同仁來說還是有所不足，我過去在台中擔任社會局局長所以很清楚，特別是家訪的部分，同仁真的是非常非常辛苦，王委員過去擔任副市長的時候也對這塊非常非常關心，像劉建國委員他也很關心，所以對這部分，就是除了薪資之外，心理輔導部分我們一定要來empower我們的社工同仁。"],["楊委員曜：你們回去後也再看看從107年到現在的執行成效，不要忽略了照顧者。我還是要再強調一次，臺灣社會對照顧者的關懷跟支持顯然太少了一點。謝謝次長！謝謝主席！"],["呂次長建德：是的，非常感謝楊曜委員的指教。謝謝！"],["主席：謝謝楊曜委員。","本日會議詢答全部結束，委員陳菁徽、盧縣一、涂權吉、蘇清泉、張嘉郡所提書面質詢，列入紀錄、刊登公報。"],["委員陳菁徽書面質詢：","案由：本院陳委員菁徽，藉本院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議向衛生福利部提出書面質詢。","說明：","一、按老人福利法規範，中央主管機關衛生福利部乃掌理有關老人保護業務之規劃、老人福利專業人員訓練之規劃、老人福利服務之發展，以及全國性老人福利政策等事項。","二、再按老人福利法第4條第1項第6款之規範，衛生福利部乃肩負有國際老人福利業務之聯繫、交流及合作事項之權責。","三、請說明，近3年就老人福利法第4條第1項第6款規範事項之辦理成果為何？今年度113年又將有何績效成果？今年度8月份即將編訂產出之114年度公務預算及特種基金預算案當中，所投入對於是項作業之經費規模，是否將相比今年度為少？","案由：本院陳委員菁徽，藉本院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議向衛生福利部提出書面質詢。","說明：","一、按中央政府「長期照顧十年計劃2.0（106~115年）核定本」之規劃，居家服務自2017年服務人數8萬5,968人推動下，每年應至少成長7%；惠請釋疑，最新於2023年之人數為何？又2026年時，應達到居家服單位計392家，惠請釋疑目前家數為何？","二、另為綿密照顧服務佈點，中央政府宣示在2021年時以家庭托顧數200處、社區照顧關懷據點3,000處之階段性績效上，將進一步再達到2026年時有家庭托顧數250處、社區照顧關懷據點3,500處。惠請釋疑，最新於2023年時，家庭托顧數有幾處？社區照顧關懷據點又有幾處？","三、再者，為降低經濟弱勢失能（失智）長者使用機構服務之經濟負擔，並增進機構提供服務量能，中央政府乃規劃在2021年時達到服務9,911人之績效，並最終在2026年落實成長至15,964人受益目標。爰請說明，2023年時，經濟弱勢失能（失智）長者使用機構服務人數有多少人？","案由：本院陳委員菁徽，藉本院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議向衛生福利部提出書面質詢。","說明：","一、按衛生福利部主司之「通訊診察治療辦法」當中，於第3條第1項第10款以及同辦法第13條內容中略以，即已賦予主管機關透過本辦法落實國際醫療照護，以及為境外之我國病人藉通訊方式使其接受諮詢、診療及照護等施政責任。","二、是以考量完整落實前開規範所需，特建請衛生福利部體察我國甫於加強外交業務、努力落實讓世界看到臺灣目標之際，諸多駐外官方、行政法人及具備受政府委託之人員，因囿於語言不通爰受到他國醫療待遇不足情形，進而需要衛生福利部積極發揮職能，透過與外交部會商共擬改善措施，降低派駐他國人員使用通訊診療之門檻，以及使用上之便利程度。","三、有鑑於此，特要求限期於一個月內會商外交部，並於三個月內向本院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交書面報告。"],["委員盧縣一書面質詢：","審查：","一、委員許宇甄等22人擬具「老人福利法增訂第二十二條之一條文草案」案。二、委員馬文君等16人擬具「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。三、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。四、國民黨黨團擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。五、委員黃健豪等17人擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。六、委員王育敏等19人擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。七、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「老人福利法第二十二條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案。","請問：","1.是否可以修正：《老人福利法》第二條：「本法所稱老人，指年滿六十五歲以上之人。」將老人之定義放寬，納入55歲以上之原住民族人？","2.若在排富前提下，例如：修正本法第二十二條前兩項：「老人參加全民健康保險之保險費，經稅捐稽徵機關核定其最近一年綜合所得總額合計未達申報標準或綜合所得稅稅率未達百分之二十者，由中央主管機關全額補助。","老人或其法定扶養義務人就老人參加全民健康保險之部分負擔費用或保險給付未涵蓋之醫療費用無力負擔者，由中央主管機關全額補助。」","是否能約略計算出：僅納入55歲以上之原住民，並設有排富條款下，每年增加中央政府多少預算支出以補助老人健保費用？"],["委員涂權吉書面質詢：","￭ 就今天審查的《老人福利法》第二十二條，本席也支持健保補助，應修法調整為65歲以上老人，只要近一年所得稅未達20%者，由中央統一補助健保費。因為假如仔細探究會發現，目前健保補助只有財政狀況良好的縣市才有補助的措施。（表格1）","￭ 新北市、台北市、桃園市、台中市、高雄市這5個縣市的長輩，只要符合稅率標準，就可以獲得補助。另外，基隆市只要設籍滿3年，離島的澎湖、金門、馬祖只要設籍一年，就能每月享有健保補助，連稅率限制都沒有！","表格1：我國各縣市政府健保補助","￭ 台南市更是直到去年7月才開辦老人健保補助，其他縣市卻還停留在補助中低收長輩，但這種身為中華民國國民卻因為所在設籍地不同，社會福利資源就發生一國多制的樣貌，實在是讓民眾覺得很納悶，現在是間接逼著人民遷居到這些都市嗎？","￭ 近期立法院也在針對《財政收支劃分法》25年未修正，分配不均的「統籌分配款」與「一般補助款」一再的造成縣市政府財政狀況越加惡劣進行討論。本席所在的桃園230萬人口，人均分配額卻只有1.6萬排六都第5名敬陪末座，反觀只有185萬人口的台南市，人均分配額卻多達2.4萬高居第2名。","￭ 依照國民黨提案版本說明，據衛福部統計，若全面補助65歲高齡長者健保費，中央僅需增加400億元支出，僅占113年度中央政府總預算2.99兆元的1.3%，對財政負擔影響甚微，為落實政府有義務降低老年生活負擔之美意，並維持公平性。故修法針對65歲以上老人近一年綜合所得稅未達20%者，由中央統一補助其健保費。","￭ 國民黨版本今天的提案，將全國標準統一，杜絕各縣市因不同財政狀況，避免產生一等、二等公民的笑談，同時也排除所得稅率高於20%者，設置一個排富機制，真正有效幫助到需要的民眾，福國利民的提案，本席敬表支持。","￭ 另外，今日審查的《老人福利法》第二十五條，明定長者搭乘大眾運輸，進入康樂場所及參觀文教設施，應給予優惠，但未參酌陪同的照顧者是否也能享有同等優惠，以鼓勵老人多外出走動，促進身心健康，達到熟齡樂活的生活概念。就民眾黨提案參考《身心障礙者權益保障法》第五十八及第五十九條立法例，增訂第三項，老人因需人陪伴者，其必要陪伴者以一人為限，得享有相關優待。","￭ 對此衛福部回覆書面意見指出，考量涉及跨部會、各地方政府財政支出、補貼機制，與民間業者營運事宜，考量世代正義原則，建議維持現行條文，本席表達遺憾。就政策方面，民眾黨的提案並非創舉，是參酌現有政策進行增訂，期待擴大照顧族群，福國利民的政策，朝野都應該同心推動，有爭議的地方可以拿出來討論，需要跨部會合作的地方不應該搪塞過去，請衛福部認真研擬將《老人福利法》第二十五條參酌《身心障礙者權益保障法》第五十八及第五十九條，增設陪伴者一人為限，並享有相關優待，以上。"],["委員蘇清泉書面質詢：","今天審查老人福利法第二十二條、二十五條，我相信衛福部知道保險業有繳費20年的終身醫療保險。然而，健保實施至今，即將邁入第30個年頭，這些70歲的老人，交了30年的健康保險費，從前面提到保險、排富的角度，這些老人是否可以在邁入風燭殘年的老齡階段，比照保險業終身醫療的概念，獲得政府的照顧？","目前這些交了30年健保費的老人，卻因為生活在不同縣市而有不同待遇，有的縣市老人是不需要交健保費的，衛福部，你知道目前有哪些縣市嗎？對於各縣市對待老人的不同做法，做為中央主管機關，是否應該加以律定？別讓同樣是生活在台灣的老人，面臨一國兩制的待遇不是嗎？衛福部新上任，是否能藉此機會做一個宣誓，彌平老人繳交健保費的一國兩制？","針對此次老人福利法的修法，今天衛福部的報告我有幾點看法：","1.缺乏全國統一的補助政策：報告提及不同縣市針對70歲以上長者的健保費補助政策各不相同，這導致了政策的不一致。例如，新北市、台北市、基隆市、金門縣和澎湖縣等地都有各自的補助規定，但並未統一標準。同樣生活在台灣，健保待遇卻大不相同！？你有何看法？","2.政策執行複雜：各地的補助政策不僅不同，且申請和審核流程也各異。這可能會增加行政負擔，並且對於需要補助的老人來說，可能會產生申請操作上的困難。例如，新北市和台北市要求不同的資格審查和申請流程。雖然這是地方政府的政策，但是對於中央主管機關來說，實施30年的健保，也該好好檢討不是嗎？衛福部對於健保未來的改革有何規劃？","3.補助金額和範圍有限：部分縣市僅提供部分補助，補助金額可能不足以覆蓋老人的全部健保費用。例如，基隆市每月補助826元，但如果健保費超過此金額，超出部分仍需老人自付。雖然比上不足比下有餘，但是這會讓人感覺中央政府健保政策的混亂，衛福部有何看法？你新上任是否能夠藉著此次修法來全國統一？","本席想請教衛福部：","1.是否有計劃統一全國70歲以上長者健保費補助政策，以減少地區間的不一致？","2.是否考慮增加補助金額或範圍，以覆蓋老人的全部健保費用？","3.有人說疾病上身，不分貧富，衛福部對於補助老人設排富條件有何看法？"],["委員張嘉郡書面質詢：","台灣於2018年已進入高齡社會，老年人口迅速增長，2025年將步入超高齡社會，衛福部亦備有【因應超高齡社會對策方案】，然目前針對長者的健保補助費用，卻存在明顯窮縣市與富縣市之間的不平等狀況。","目前長者健保費補助制度，都是由地方政府自行編列預算，這導致了不同縣市之間的福利待遇存在顯著差異。例如，台北市、新北市、桃園市、台中市、台南市、高雄市及基隆市對65歲以上長者提供健保費補助，但其他縣市地區的就無法享受同樣的待遇。","這樣的差異，導致了老年人福利保障的不公平，也有違憲法第七條所揭示的國民平等原則。老年人作為我們社會中的一個重要群體，應該享有同等的福利和權利，無論他們居住在哪個地區，然而財政問題永遠是窮縣市永遠的痛，但這個痛不能讓長者因此有不平等待遇。","為了解決這一問題，本席提案由中央政府統一補助全國65歲以上且綜合所得稅未達20%的長者的健康保險費。這樣做，不僅能夠確保所有長者都能夠平等地享受這一福利，還能夠減少因地方財政能力差異所帶來的不公平現象。通過中央政府的統一補助，可以有效減輕地方政府的財政壓力，更重要的是，這將顯著改善長者的生活品質，確保他們能夠獲得必要的醫療保障，進一步實現社會的公平正義。","本案的通過，將有助於建立更加公平、合理和可持續的老人福利制度，促進社會的穩定與和諧，建請衛福部以保障所有長者的基本權益為念，實現對社會公平和正義的承諾。"],["主席：現在作以下決議：一、說明及詢答完畢。二、委員質詢未及答復或請補充資料者，請相關機關於兩週內以書面答復；委員另要求期限者，從其所定。","現在請宣讀提案條文內容。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":212,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-19","speakers":["王育敏","許宇甄","張嘉郡","陳昭姿","林月琴","廖偉翔","黃秀芳","黃健豪","張智倫","李彥秀","林淑芬","楊瓊瓔","陳瑩","劉建國","徐欣瑩","楊曜","陳菁徽","盧縣一","涂權吉","蘇清泉"],"page_start":149,"meetingDate":["2024-05-30"],"gazette_id":"1135501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135501_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員許宇甄等22人擬具「老人福利法增訂第二十二條之一條文草案」案；二、委員馬文\n君等16人擬具「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案」案；三、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具「老人福\n利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案；四、國民黨黨團擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草\n案」案；五、委員黃健豪等17人擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案；六、委員王育\n敏等19人擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案；七、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「老人福利\n法第二十二條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1135501_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"153392","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153392","tool":"pyannote","id":"153392-pyannote"},"job_id":"WbuKdhV2VFTv288o","queued_at":"2024-05-30 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\"language\": \"en\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:12,046 --> 00:00:15,368\n謝 謝 主 席 。 主 席 我 請 一 下 旅 次 長 。 好 , 請 旅 次 長 。\n\n2\n00:00:20,774 --> 00:00:39,863\n市 長 , 我 們 今 天 審 議 老 人 福 利 法 第 二 十 二 條 跟 第 二 十 五 條 的 修 正 草 案 。 市 長 , 我 們 今 天 審 議 老 人 福 利 法 第 二 十 二 條 跟 第 二 十 五 條 的 修 正 草 案 。 市 長 , 我 們 今 天 審 議 老 人 福 利 法 第 二 十 二 條 跟 第 二 十 五 條 的 修 正 草 案 。 市 長 , 我 們 今 天 審 議 老 人 福 利 法 第 二 十 二 條 跟 第 二 十 五 條 的 修 正 草 案 。 市 長 , 我 們 今 天 審 議 老 人 福 利 法 第 二 十 二 條 跟 第 二 十 五 條 的 修 正 草 案 。 市 長 , 我 們 今 天 審 議 老 人 福 利 法 第 二 十 二 條 跟 第 二 十 五 條 的 修 正 草 案 。 市 長 , 我 們 今 天 審 議 老 人 福 利 法 第 二 十 二 條 跟 第 二 十 五 條 的 修 正 草 案 。 市 長 , 我 們 今 天 審 議 老 人 福\n\n3\n00:00:41,618 --> 00:01:05,026\n六 類 的 投 保 對 象 。 對 不 對 。 我 覺 得 與 其 從 年 齡 來 做 劃 分 , 我 覺 得 第 六 類 的 投 保 對 象 通 常 都 是 經 濟 比 較 弱 勢 的 , 他 可 能 沒 有 雇 主 , 也 可 能 是 人 民 融 券 。\n\n4\n00:01:08,042 --> 00:01:34,544\n現 在 就 你 們 的 了 解 第 六 類 的 投 保 對 象 他 的 保 費 跟 他 的 造 成 的 經 濟 負 擔 會 是 怎 麼 樣 ? 好 , 非 常 感 謝 委 員 對 於 這 部 分 的 關 心 。 我 想 兩 個 重 點 。 第 一 個 就 是 說 我 們 現 在 確 實 就 是 六 類 數 目 。 那 第 六 類 呢 其 實 基 本 上 就 是 所 謂 地 區 人 口 。 那 地 區 人 口 裡 面 就 是 剛 剛 陳 委 員 所 說 就 是 說 他 就 是 說 沒 有 任 何 職 業 或 者 說 無 一 定 雇 主 。\n\n5\n00:01:51,611 --> 00:01:52,572\n對 , 或 者 是 你 們 再 把 第 六 類 再 細 分 一 下\n\n6\n00:03:15,266 --> 00:03:43,491\n最 需 要 去 關 注 的 反 而 是 邊 緣 戶 的 。 沒 錯 沒 錯 。 那 你 們 就 是 趕 快 回 去 繳 第 六 類 , 然 後 不 是 像 比 較 特 殊 的 聚 場 之 類 的 。 然 後 又 沒 有 福 保 的 。 沒 錯 。 你 們 把 它 獨 立 出 來 , 我 覺 得 這 個 是 最 需 要 , 而 且 是 不 分 年 齡 的 。 沒 錯 沒 錯 。 他 是 以 家 庭 來 看 。\n\n7\n00:03:44,951 --> 00:04:11,467\n委 員 王 , 你 的 意 見 真 的 是 非 常 好 。 必 須 要 說 , 真 的 非 常 佩 服 委 員 的 這 一 個 意 見 。 那 我 們 這 個 就 是 說 , 是 不 是 允 許 我 們 在 這 邊 , 我 們 趕 快 把 這 一 個 , 您 剛 剛 說 的 特 殊 的 這 一 個 禁 品 的 部 分 , 我 們 來 看 看 能 不 能 有 些 相 關 的 一 些 規 定 , 把 它 放 寬 。 這 個 部 分 我 想 來 納 入 , 我 想 這 個 是 確 實 , 就 是 說 把 我 們 , 就 是 幫 咱 , 最 需 要 幫 咱 的 這 個 品 種 。 我 想 這 是 一 個 精 神 。 我 非 常 佩 服 委 員 的 這 一 個 高 見 , 謝 謝 。 那 , 因 為\n\n8\n00:04:15,338 --> 00:04:27,988\n因 為 我 這 邊 看 到 的 資 料 是 未 付 出 統 計 假 如 說 全 面 的 補 助 6 5 歲 以 上 的 長 者 健 保 費 呢 , 中 央 必 須 要 增 加 4 0 0 億 啊 。 欸 , 大 約 3 5 9 。 3 5 9 ?\n\n9\n00:04:27,988 --> 00:04:28,008\n是 。\n\n10\n00:04:32,031 --> 00:04:37,436\n那 我 跟 委 員 報 告 就 是 說 因 為 每 一 年 , 我 們 現 在 高 齡 化 嘛 , 那 預 估 到 2 0 5 4 會 增 加 到 6 2 7 億 , 6 2 7 億 , 那 這 個 其 實 老 師 說 2 0 5 4 會 增 加 到 6 2 7 億 , 等 於 d o u b l e 嘛 , d o u b l e 其 實 這 樣 會 排 擠 掉 我 們 現 在 目 前 已 經 推 動 很 多 很 多 像 長 照 3 . 0 啊 , 我 們 價 錢 的 這 個 費 用 。\n\n11\n00:04:58,686 --> 00:05:16,160\n所 以 這 個 假 如 法 有 通 過 , 這 個 還 是 要 用 公 務 預 算 來 審 查 ? 當 然 。 其 他 的 我 們 等 一 下 討 論 法 條 的 時 候 再 講 。 好 的 。 我 問 一 下 , 因 為 我 們 現 在 已 經 允 許 外 國\n\n12\n00:05:19,632 --> 00:05:42,839\n﹖ 勞 動 部 五 月 初 預 告 了 外 國 人 從 事 就 業 服 務 法 的 4 6 條 ﹖ 他 大 概 就 是 允 許 外 國 人 可 以 在 臺 灣 考 取 ﹖ 取 得 社 公 司 的 國 土 執 照 ﹖ 可 是 沒 有 辦 法 工 作 啊 ﹖ 是 不 是 ﹖ 他 考 取 不 能 工 作 嗎 ﹖\n\n13\n00:05:44,360 --> 00:06:09,179\n目 前 預 告 要 放 寬 我 們 現 在 已 經 預 告 了 準 備 要 來 放 寬 我 也 跟 委 員 報 告 我 知 道 這 個 很 多 事 實 上 就 是 說 那 等 於 是 喬 生 對 喬 生 他 們 我 覺 得 這 也 很 好 因 為 喬 生 他 們 事 實 上 因 為 我 們 的 社 會 工 作 裡 面 也 有 一 些 像 針 對 新 住 民 等 等 這 些 他 需 要 有 一 些 文 化 敏 感 度 那 其 實 由 他 們 他 們 在 語 言 上 面 這 個 會 有 很 多 很 多 的 一 些 這 個 共 同 性 所 以 我 想 這 個 我 們 會 來 放 寬 我 講 我 的 看 法 就 是 說\n\n14\n00:06:11,681 --> 00:06:22,439\n他 說 我 們 只 要 允 許 他 參 加 國 考 , 沒 有 道 理 不 讓 他 投 入 社 會 公 司 的 工 作 行 列 。 對 不 對 ?\n\n15\n00:06:27,233 --> 00:06:54,960\n欸 包 委 , 反 正 我 確 實 我 們 這 個 部 分 已 經 完 成 預 告 , 那 我 們 會 朝 這 個 部 分 的 放 寬 , 這 個 方 向 來 進 行 。 我 跟 你 講 這 個 確 實 也 是 對 於 我 們 本 國 的 , 我 們 整 個 這 個 社 會 工 作 人 力 一 個 很 好 的 補 充 , 這 個 很 好 。 對 , 那 至 於 說 文 化 的 差 異 , 那 個 我 覺 得 那 個 是 在 考 試 之 前 要 訓 練 的 。 我 好 像 知 道 要 參 加 社 工 時 的 國 考 必 須 要 有 4 0 0 個 小 時 的 工 作 時 間 。\n\n16\n00:06:57,421 --> 00:07:15,760\n那 在 這 4 0 0 個 小 時 裡 面 他 大 概 就 必 須 要 有 他 會 有 適 度 的 進 入 。 一 樣 關 心 一 下 社 工 師 。 社 工 以 及 社 工 人 員 的\n\n17\n00:07:18,476 --> 00:07:19,939\n則 不 予 審 查 ． 則 不 予 審 查 ． 則 不 予 審 查 ．\n\n18\n00:07:59,918 --> 00:08:01,098\n﹚ 楊 曜 ﹚ 楊 曜 ﹚ 楊 曜 ﹚\n\n19\n00:08:29,349 --> 00:08:48,534\n我 們 重 點 都 在 被 照 顧 者 , 其 實 照 顧 者 本 身 的 問 題 也 不 少 。 這 個 次 長 有 什 麼 想 法 ? 你 今 天 可 以 大 概 講 一 下 就 好 了 。 我 想 整 個 有 關 社 工 的 勞 動 條 件 , 其 實 委 員 最 重 要 的 是 心 理 智 商 。\n\n20\n00:08:49,314 --> 00:09:08,371\n﹖ 其 實 據 我 所 知 像 主 席 王 育 敏 ﹖ 王 委 員 其 實 他 也 是 長 期 ﹖ 過 去 也 是 社 工 方 面 出 身 ﹖ 對 這 方 面 非 常 非 常 關 心 ﹖ 那 這 個 部 分 有 關 於 像 ﹖ 這 個 部 分 我 們 大 概 兩 個 重 點 ﹖ 第 一 個 就 是 說 我 們 從 1 0 7 年 起 我 們 有 公 益 彩 券 的 回 饋 金 ﹖ 有 一 個 提 升 社 工 人 員 職 業 安 全 計 畫 ﹖\n\n21\n00:09:09,472 --> 00:09:33,522\n這 裡 面 包 括 就 是 說 整 個 這 一 個 對 於 我 們 的 整 個 這 個 社 公 司 的 這 一 個 社 會 心 理 的 這 一 個 諮 商 還 有 甚 至 還 有 包 括 律 師 諮 詢 費 這 個 都 從 這 個 a c c o u n t 他 來 支 付 另 外 第 二 個 其 實 我 們 現 在 目 前 從 去 我 們 從 這 個 去 年 開 始 有 一 個 心 理 健 康 師 針 對 1 5 到 3 0 歲 的 這 一 個 民 眾 他 都 有 這 一 個 他 都 有 三 次\n\n22\n00:09:34,042 --> 00:10:03,611\n的 這 一 個 免 費 的 心 理 諮 商 的 這 個 機 會 。 那 我 想 雙 管 齊 下 , 當 然 我 認 為 對 我 們 社 工 同 仁 還 是 真 的 不 足 。 我 過 去 在 台 中 擔 任 社 會 局 長 , 我 知 道 特 別 是 家 防 的 部 分 , 同 仁 真 的 是 非 常 非 常 辛 苦 。 像 王 委 員 過 去 也 是 對 這 一 塊 , 擔 任 副 市 長 的 時 候 也 是 對 這 塊 非 常 非 常 關 心 。 那 我 想 這 邊 我 們 會 來 跟 續 , 來 其 實 真 的 對 於 社 工 同 仁 , 像 劉 建 國 委 員 還 有 關 心 嘛 , 就 是 除 了 薪 資 之 外 , 心 理 的 輔 導 我 們 一 定 要 來 e m p o w e r 我 們 的 社 工 同 仁 。\n\n23\n00:10:04,371 --> 00:10:33,020\n對 , 然 後 你 們 回 去 大 概 也 再 看 看 從 1 0 7 年 到 現 在 我 們 執 行 的 成 效 怎 麼 樣 。 不 要 讓 照 顧 者 , 我 還 是 要 講 一 下 台 灣 社 會 對 照 顧 者 的 關 懷 跟 支 持 顯 然 太 少 了 一 點 。 好 , 謝 謝 市 長 , 謝 謝 主 席 。 好 的 , 非 常 感 謝 楊 偉 文 的 指 教 , 謝 謝 。\n\n24\n00:10:34,448 --> 00:10:34,689\n好 , 謝 謝 楊 曜 委 員 。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n12046\t15368\t謝謝主席。主席我請一下旅次長。好,請旅次長。\n20774\t39863\t市長,我們今天審議老人福利法第二十二條跟第二十五條的修正草案。市長,我們今天審議老人福利法第二十二條跟第二十五條的修正草案。市長,我們今天審議老人福利法第二十二條跟第二十五條的修正草案。市長,我們今天審議老人福利法第二十二條跟第二十五條的修正草案。市長,我們今天審議老人福利法第二十二條跟第二十五條的修正草案。市長,我們今天審議老人福利法第二十二條跟第二十五條的修正草案。市長,我們今天審議老人福利法第二十二條跟第二十五條的修正草案。市長,我們今天審議老人福\n41618\t65026\t六類的投保對象。對不對。我覺得與其從年齡來做劃分,我覺得第六類的投保對象通常都是經濟比較弱勢的,他可能沒有雇主,也可能是人民融券。\n68042\t94544\t現在就你們的了解第六類的投保對象他的保費跟他的造成的經濟負擔會是怎麼樣?好,非常感謝委員對於這部分的關心。我想兩個重點。第一個就是說我們現在確實就是六類數目。那第六類呢其實基本上就是所謂地區人口。那地區人口裡面就是剛剛陳委員所說就是說他就是說沒有任何職業或者說無一定雇主。\n95145\t110811\t﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏\n111611\t112572\t對,或者是你們再把第六類再細分一下\n136920\t164923\t⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯\n165026\t195026\t﹏對﹏\n195266\t223491\t最需要去關注的反而是邊緣戶的。沒錯沒錯。那你們就是趕快回去繳第六類,然後不是像比較特殊的聚場之類的。然後又沒有福保的。沒錯。你們把它獨立出來,我覺得這個是最需要,而且是不分年齡的。沒錯沒錯。他是以家庭來看。\n224951\t251467\t委員王,你的意見真的是非常好。必須要說,真的非常佩服委員的這一個意見。那我們這個就是說,是不是允許我們在這邊,我們趕快把這一個,您剛剛說的特殊的這一個禁品的部分,我們來看看能不能有些相關的一些規定,把它放寬。這個部分我想來納入,我想這個是確實,就是說把我們,就是幫咱,最需要幫咱的這個品種。我想這是一個精神。我非常佩服委員的這一個高見,謝謝。那,因為\n255338\t267988\t因為我這邊看到的資料是未付出統計假如說全面的補助65歲以上的長者健保費呢,中央必須要增加400億啊。欸,大約359。359?\n267988\t268008\t是。\n272031\t277436\t那我跟委員報告就是說因為每一年,我們現在高齡化嘛,那預估到2054會增加到627億,627億,那這個其實老師說2054會增加到627億,等於double嘛,double其實這樣會排擠掉我們現在目前已經推動很多很多像長照3.0啊,我們價錢的這個費用。\n298686\t316160\t所以這個假如法有通過,這個還是要用公務預算來審查?當然。其他的我們等一下討論法條的時候再講。好的。我問一下,因為我們現在已經允許外國\n319632\t342839\t﹖勞動部五月初預告了外國人從事就業服務法的46條﹖他大概就是允許外國人可以在臺灣考取﹖取得社公司的國土執照﹖可是沒有辦法工作啊﹖是不是﹖他考取不能工作嗎﹖\n344360\t369179\t目前預告要放寬我們現在已經預告了準備要來放寬我也跟委員報告我知道這個很多事實上就是說那等於是喬生對喬生他們我覺得這也很好因為喬生他們事實上因為我們的社會工作裡面也有一些像針對新住民等等這些他需要有一些文化敏感度那其實由他們他們在語言上面這個會有很多很多的一些這個共同性所以我想這個我們會來放寬我講我的看法就是說\n371681\t382439\t他說我們只要允許他參加國考,沒有道理不讓他投入社會公司的工作行列。對不對?\n387233\t414960\t欸包委,反正我確實我們這個部分已經完成預告,那我們會朝這個部分的放寬,這個方向來進行。我跟你講這個確實也是對於我們本國的,我們整個這個社會工作人力一個很好的補充,這個很好。對,那至於說文化的差異,那個我覺得那個是在考試之前要訓練的。我好像知道要參加社工時的國考必須要有400個小時的工作時間。\n417421\t435760\t那在這400個小時裡面他大概就必須要有他會有適度的進入。一樣關心一下社工師。社工以及社工人員的\n438476\t439939\t則不予審查 ．則不予審查．則不予審查．\n452056\t479718\t⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯\n479918\t481098\t﹚楊曜﹚楊曜﹚楊曜﹚\n509349\t528534\t我們重點都在被照顧者,其實照顧者本身的問題也不少。這個次長有什麼想法?你今天可以大概講一下就好了。我想整個有關社工的勞動條件,其實委員最重要的是心理智商。\n529314\t548371\t﹖其實據我所知像主席王育敏﹖王委員其實他也是長期﹖過去也是社工方面出身﹖對這方面非常非常關心﹖那這個部分有關於像﹖這個部分我們大概兩個重點﹖第一個就是說我們從107年起我們有公益彩券的回饋金﹖有一個提升社工人員職業安全計畫﹖\n549472\t573522\t這裡面包括就是說整個這一個對於我們的整個這個社公司的這一個社會心理的這一個諮商還有甚至還有包括律師諮詢費這個都從這個account他來支付另外第二個其實我們現在目前從去我們從這個去年開始有一個心理健康師針對15到30歲的這一個民眾他都有這一個他都有三次\n574042\t603611\t的這一個免費的心理諮商的這個機會。那我想雙管齊下,當然我認為對我們社工同仁還是真的不足。我過去在台中擔任社會局長,我知道特別是家防的部分,同仁真的是非常非常辛苦。像王委員過去也是對這一塊,擔任副市長的時候也是對這塊非常非常關心。那我想這邊我們會來跟續,來其實真的對於社工同仁,像劉建國委員還有關心嘛,就是除了薪資之外,心理的輔導我們一定要來 empower我們的社工同仁。\n604371\t633020\t對,然後你們回去大概也再看看從107年到現在我們執行的成效怎麼樣。不要讓照顧者,我還是要講一下台灣社會對照顧者的關懷跟支持顯然太少了一點。好,謝謝市長,謝謝主席。好的,非常感謝楊偉文的指教,謝謝。\n634448\t634689\t好,謝謝楊曜委員。\n","txt":"謝謝主席。主席我請一下旅次長。好,請旅次長。\n市長,我們今天審議老人福利法第二十二條跟第二十五條的修正草案。市長,我們今天審議老人福利法第二十二條跟第二十五條的修正草案。市長,我們今天審議老人福利法第二十二條跟第二十五條的修正草案。市長,我們今天審議老人福利法第二十二條跟第二十五條的修正草案。市長,我們今天審議老人福利法第二十二條跟第二十五條的修正草案。市長,我們今天審議老人福利法第二十二條跟第二十五條的修正草案。市長,我們今天審議老人福利法第二十二條跟第二十五條的修正草案。市長,我們今天審議老人福\n六類的投保對象。對不對。我覺得與其從年齡來做劃分,我覺得第六類的投保對象通常都是經濟比較弱勢的,他可能沒有雇主,也可能是人民融券。\n現在就你們的了解第六類的投保對象他的保費跟他的造成的經濟負擔會是怎麼樣?好,非常感謝委員對於這部分的關心。我想兩個重點。第一個就是說我們現在確實就是六類數目。那第六類呢其實基本上就是所謂地區人口。那地區人口裡面就是剛剛陳委員所說就是說他就是說沒有任何職業或者說無一定雇主。\n﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏\n對,或者是你們再把第六類再細分一下\n⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯\n﹏對﹏\n最需要去關注的反而是邊緣戶的。沒錯沒錯。那你們就是趕快回去繳第六類,然後不是像比較特殊的聚場之類的。然後又沒有福保的。沒錯。你們把它獨立出來,我覺得這個是最需要,而且是不分年齡的。沒錯沒錯。他是以家庭來看。\n委員王,你的意見真的是非常好。必須要說,真的非常佩服委員的這一個意見。那我們這個就是說,是不是允許我們在這邊,我們趕快把這一個,您剛剛說的特殊的這一個禁品的部分,我們來看看能不能有些相關的一些規定,把它放寬。這個部分我想來納入,我想這個是確實,就是說把我們,就是幫咱,最需要幫咱的這個品種。我想這是一個精神。我非常佩服委員的這一個高見,謝謝。那,因為\n因為我這邊看到的資料是未付出統計假如說全面的補助65歲以上的長者健保費呢,中央必須要增加400億啊。欸,大約359。359?\n是。\n那我跟委員報告就是說因為每一年,我們現在高齡化嘛,那預估到2054會增加到627億,627億,那這個其實老師說2054會增加到627億,等於double嘛,double其實這樣會排擠掉我們現在目前已經推動很多很多像長照3.0啊,我們價錢的這個費用。\n所以這個假如法有通過,這個還是要用公務預算來審查?當然。其他的我們等一下討論法條的時候再講。好的。我問一下,因為我們現在已經允許外國\n﹖勞動部五月初預告了外國人從事就業服務法的46條﹖他大概就是允許外國人可以在臺灣考取﹖取得社公司的國土執照﹖可是沒有辦法工作啊﹖是不是﹖他考取不能工作嗎﹖\n目前預告要放寬我們現在已經預告了準備要來放寬我也跟委員報告我知道這個很多事實上就是說那等於是喬生對喬生他們我覺得這也很好因為喬生他們事實上因為我們的社會工作裡面也有一些像針對新住民等等這些他需要有一些文化敏感度那其實由他們他們在語言上面這個會有很多很多的一些這個共同性所以我想這個我們會來放寬我講我的看法就是說\n他說我們只要允許他參加國考,沒有道理不讓他投入社會公司的工作行列。對不對?\n欸包委,反正我確實我們這個部分已經完成預告,那我們會朝這個部分的放寬,這個方向來進行。我跟你講這個確實也是對於我們本國的,我們整個這個社會工作人力一個很好的補充,這個很好。對,那至於說文化的差異,那個我覺得那個是在考試之前要訓練的。我好像知道要參加社工時的國考必須要有400個小時的工作時間。\n那在這400個小時裡面他大概就必須要有他會有適度的進入。一樣關心一下社工師。社工以及社工人員的\n則不予審查 ．則不予審查．則不予審查．\n⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯\n﹚楊曜﹚楊曜﹚楊曜﹚\n我們重點都在被照顧者,其實照顧者本身的問題也不少。這個次長有什麼想法?你今天可以大概講一下就好了。我想整個有關社工的勞動條件,其實委員最重要的是心理智商。\n﹖其實據我所知像主席王育敏﹖王委員其實他也是長期﹖過去也是社工方面出身﹖對這方面非常非常關心﹖那這個部分有關於像﹖這個部分我們大概兩個重點﹖第一個就是說我們從107年起我們有公益彩券的回饋金﹖有一個提升社工人員職業安全計畫﹖\n這裡面包括就是說整個這一個對於我們的整個這個社公司的這一個社會心理的這一個諮商還有甚至還有包括律師諮詢費這個都從這個account他來支付另外第二個其實我們現在目前從去我們從這個去年開始有一個心理健康師針對15到30歲的這一個民眾他都有這一個他都有三次\n的這一個免費的心理諮商的這個機會。那我想雙管齊下,當然我認為對我們社工同仁還是真的不足。我過去在台中擔任社會局長,我知道特別是家防的部分,同仁真的是非常非常辛苦。像王委員過去也是對這一塊,擔任副市長的時候也是對這塊非常非常關心。那我想這邊我們會來跟續,來其實真的對於社工同仁,像劉建國委員還有關心嘛,就是除了薪資之外,心理的輔導我們一定要來 empower我們的社工同仁。\n對,然後你們回去大概也再看看從107年到現在我們執行的成效怎麼樣。不要讓照顧者,我還是要講一下台灣社會對照顧者的關懷跟支持顯然太少了一點。好,謝謝市長,謝謝主席。好的,非常感謝楊偉文的指教,謝謝。\n好,謝謝楊曜委員。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:12.046 --> 00:15.368\n謝 謝 主 席 。 主 席 我 請 一 下 旅 次 長 。 好 , 請 旅 次 長 。\n\n00:20.774 --> 00:39.863\n市 長 , 我 們 今 天 審 議 老 人 福 利 法 第 二 十 二 條 跟 第 二 十 五 條 的 修 正 草 案 。 市 長 , 我 們 今 天 審 議 老 人 福 利 法 第 二 十 二 條 跟 第 二 十 五 條 的 修 正 草 案 。 市 長 , 我 們 今 天 審 議 老 人 福 利 法 第 二 十 二 條 跟 第 二 十 五 條 的 修 正 草 案 。 市 長 , 我 們 今 天 審 議 老 人 福 利 法 第 二 十 二 條 跟 第 二 十 五 條 的 修 正 草 案 。 市 長 , 我 們 今 天 審 議 老 人 福 利 法 第 二 十 二 條 跟 第 二 十 五 條 的 修 正 草 案 。 市 長 , 我 們 今 天 審 議 老 人 福 利 法 第 二 十 二 條 跟 第 二 十 五 條 的 修 正 草 案 。 市 長 , 我 們 今 天 審 議 老 人 福 利 法 第 二 十 二 條 跟 第 二 十 五 條 的 修 正 草 案 。 市 長 , 我 們 今 天 審 議 老 人 福\n\n00:41.618 --> 01:05.026\n六 類 的 投 保 對 象 。 對 不 對 。 我 覺 得 與 其 從 年 齡 來 做 劃 分 , 我 覺 得 第 六 類 的 投 保 對 象 通 常 都 是 經 濟 比 較 弱 勢 的 , 他 可 能 沒 有 雇 主 , 也 可 能 是 人 民 融 券 。\n\n01:08.042 --> 01:34.544\n現 在 就 你 們 的 了 解 第 六 類 的 投 保 對 象 他 的 保 費 跟 他 的 造 成 的 經 濟 負 擔 會 是 怎 麼 樣 ? 好 , 非 常 感 謝 委 員 對 於 這 部 分 的 關 心 。 我 想 兩 個 重 點 。 第 一 個 就 是 說 我 們 現 在 確 實 就 是 六 類 數 目 。 那 第 六 類 呢 其 實 基 本 上 就 是 所 謂 地 區 人 口 。 那 地 區 人 口 裡 面 就 是 剛 剛 陳 委 員 所 說 就 是 說 他 就 是 說 沒 有 任 何 職 業 或 者 說 無 一 定 雇 主 。\n\n01:51.611 --> 01:52.572\n對 , 或 者 是 你 們 再 把 第 六 類 再 細 分 一 下\n\n03:15.266 --> 03:43.491\n最 需 要 去 關 注 的 反 而 是 邊 緣 戶 的 。 沒 錯 沒 錯 。 那 你 們 就 是 趕 快 回 去 繳 第 六 類 , 然 後 不 是 像 比 較 特 殊 的 聚 場 之 類 的 。 然 後 又 沒 有 福 保 的 。 沒 錯 。 你 們 把 它 獨 立 出 來 , 我 覺 得 這 個 是 最 需 要 , 而 且 是 不 分 年 齡 的 。 沒 錯 沒 錯 。 他 是 以 家 庭 來 看 。\n\n03:44.951 --> 04:11.467\n委 員 王 , 你 的 意 見 真 的 是 非 常 好 。 必 須 要 說 , 真 的 非 常 佩 服 委 員 的 這 一 個 意 見 。 那 我 們 這 個 就 是 說 , 是 不 是 允 許 我 們 在 這 邊 , 我 們 趕 快 把 這 一 個 , 您 剛 剛 說 的 特 殊 的 這 一 個 禁 品 的 部 分 , 我 們 來 看 看 能 不 能 有 些 相 關 的 一 些 規 定 , 把 它 放 寬 。 這 個 部 分 我 想 來 納 入 , 我 想 這 個 是 確 實 , 就 是 說 把 我 們 , 就 是 幫 咱 , 最 需 要 幫 咱 的 這 個 品 種 。 我 想 這 是 一 個 精 神 。 我 非 常 佩 服 委 員 的 這 一 個 高 見 , 謝 謝 。 那 , 因 為\n\n04:15.338 --> 04:27.988\n因 為 我 這 邊 看 到 的 資 料 是 未 付 出 統 計 假 如 說 全 面 的 補 助 6 5 歲 以 上 的 長 者 健 保 費 呢 , 中 央 必 須 要 增 加 4 0 0 億 啊 。 欸 , 大 約 3 5 9 。 3 5 9 ?\n\n04:27.988 --> 04:28.008\n是 。\n\n04:32.031 --> 04:37.436\n那 我 跟 委 員 報 告 就 是 說 因 為 每 一 年 , 我 們 現 在 高 齡 化 嘛 , 那 預 估 到 2 0 5 4 會 增 加 到 6 2 7 億 , 6 2 7 億 , 那 這 個 其 實 老 師 說 2 0 5 4 會 增 加 到 6 2 7 億 , 等 於 d o u b l e 嘛 , d o u b l e 其 實 這 樣 會 排 擠 掉 我 們 現 在 目 前 已 經 推 動 很 多 很 多 像 長 照 3 . 0 啊 , 我 們 價 錢 的 這 個 費 用 。\n\n04:58.686 --> 05:16.160\n所 以 這 個 假 如 法 有 通 過 , 這 個 還 是 要 用 公 務 預 算 來 審 查 ? 當 然 。 其 他 的 我 們 等 一 下 討 論 法 條 的 時 候 再 講 。 好 的 。 我 問 一 下 , 因 為 我 們 現 在 已 經 允 許 外 國\n\n05:19.632 --> 05:42.839\n﹖ 勞 動 部 五 月 初 預 告 了 外 國 人 從 事 就 業 服 務 法 的 4 6 條 ﹖ 他 大 概 就 是 允 許 外 國 人 可 以 在 臺 灣 考 取 ﹖ 取 得 社 公 司 的 國 土 執 照 ﹖ 可 是 沒 有 辦 法 工 作 啊 ﹖ 是 不 是 ﹖ 他 考 取 不 能 工 作 嗎 ﹖\n\n05:44.360 --> 06:09.179\n目 前 預 告 要 放 寬 我 們 現 在 已 經 預 告 了 準 備 要 來 放 寬 我 也 跟 委 員 報 告 我 知 道 這 個 很 多 事 實 上 就 是 說 那 等 於 是 喬 生 對 喬 生 他 們 我 覺 得 這 也 很 好 因 為 喬 生 他 們 事 實 上 因 為 我 們 的 社 會 工 作 裡 面 也 有 一 些 像 針 對 新 住 民 等 等 這 些 他 需 要 有 一 些 文 化 敏 感 度 那 其 實 由 他 們 他 們 在 語 言 上 面 這 個 會 有 很 多 很 多 的 一 些 這 個 共 同 性 所 以 我 想 這 個 我 們 會 來 放 寬 我 講 我 的 看 法 就 是 說\n\n06:11.681 --> 06:22.439\n他 說 我 們 只 要 允 許 他 參 加 國 考 , 沒 有 道 理 不 讓 他 投 入 社 會 公 司 的 工 作 行 列 。 對 不 對 ?\n\n06:27.233 --> 06:54.960\n欸 包 委 , 反 正 我 確 實 我 們 這 個 部 分 已 經 完 成 預 告 , 那 我 們 會 朝 這 個 部 分 的 放 寬 , 這 個 方 向 來 進 行 。 我 跟 你 講 這 個 確 實 也 是 對 於 我 們 本 國 的 , 我 們 整 個 這 個 社 會 工 作 人 力 一 個 很 好 的 補 充 , 這 個 很 好 。 對 , 那 至 於 說 文 化 的 差 異 , 那 個 我 覺 得 那 個 是 在 考 試 之 前 要 訓 練 的 。 我 好 像 知 道 要 參 加 社 工 時 的 國 考 必 須 要 有 4 0 0 個 小 時 的 工 作 時 間 。\n\n06:57.421 --> 07:15.760\n那 在 這 4 0 0 個 小 時 裡 面 他 大 概 就 必 須 要 有 他 會 有 適 度 的 進 入 。 一 樣 關 心 一 下 社 工 師 。 社 工 以 及 社 工 人 員 的\n\n07:18.476 --> 07:19.939\n則 不 予 審 查 ． 則 不 予 審 查 ． 則 不 予 審 查 ．\n\n07:59.918 --> 08:01.098\n﹚ 楊 曜 ﹚ 楊 曜 ﹚ 楊 曜 ﹚\n\n08:29.349 --> 08:48.534\n我 們 重 點 都 在 被 照 顧 者 , 其 實 照 顧 者 本 身 的 問 題 也 不 少 。 這 個 次 長 有 什 麼 想 法 ? 你 今 天 可 以 大 概 講 一 下 就 好 了 。 我 想 整 個 有 關 社 工 的 勞 動 條 件 , 其 實 委 員 最 重 要 的 是 心 理 智 商 。\n\n08:49.314 --> 09:08.371\n﹖ 其 實 據 我 所 知 像 主 席 王 育 敏 ﹖ 王 委 員 其 實 他 也 是 長 期 ﹖ 過 去 也 是 社 工 方 面 出 身 ﹖ 對 這 方 面 非 常 非 常 關 心 ﹖ 那 這 個 部 分 有 關 於 像 ﹖ 這 個 部 分 我 們 大 概 兩 個 重 點 ﹖ 第 一 個 就 是 說 我 們 從 1 0 7 年 起 我 們 有 公 益 彩 券 的 回 饋 金 ﹖ 有 一 個 提 升 社 工 人 員 職 業 安 全 計 畫 ﹖\n\n09:09.472 --> 09:33.522\n這 裡 面 包 括 就 是 說 整 個 這 一 個 對 於 我 們 的 整 個 這 個 社 公 司 的 這 一 個 社 會 心 理 的 這 一 個 諮 商 還 有 甚 至 還 有 包 括 律 師 諮 詢 費 這 個 都 從 這 個 a c c o u n t 他 來 支 付 另 外 第 二 個 其 實 我 們 現 在 目 前 從 去 我 們 從 這 個 去 年 開 始 有 一 個 心 理 健 康 師 針 對 1 5 到 3 0 歲 的 這 一 個 民 眾 他 都 有 這 一 個 他 都 有 三 次\n\n09:34.042 --> 10:03.611\n的 這 一 個 免 費 的 心 理 諮 商 的 這 個 機 會 。 那 我 想 雙 管 齊 下 , 當 然 我 認 為 對 我 們 社 工 同 仁 還 是 真 的 不 足 。 我 過 去 在 台 中 擔 任 社 會 局 長 , 我 知 道 特 別 是 家 防 的 部 分 , 同 仁 真 的 是 非 常 非 常 辛 苦 。 像 王 委 員 過 去 也 是 對 這 一 塊 , 擔 任 副 市 長 的 時 候 也 是 對 這 塊 非 常 非 常 關 心 。 那 我 想 這 邊 我 們 會 來 跟 續 , 來 其 實 真 的 對 於 社 工 同 仁 , 像 劉 建 國 委 員 還 有 關 心 嘛 , 就 是 除 了 薪 資 之 外 , 心 理 的 輔 導 我 們 一 定 要 來 e m p o w e r 我 們 的 社 工 同 仁 。\n\n10:04.371 --> 10:33.020\n對 , 然 後 你 們 回 去 大 概 也 再 看 看 從 1 0 7 年 到 現 在 我 們 執 行 的 成 效 怎 麼 樣 。 不 要 讓 照 顧 者 , 我 還 是 要 講 一 下 台 灣 社 會 對 照 顧 者 的 關 懷 跟 支 持 顯 然 太 少 了 一 點 。 好 , 謝 謝 市 長 , 謝 謝 主 席 。 好 的 , 非 常 感 謝 楊 偉 文 的 指 教 , 謝 謝 。\n\n10:34.448 --> 10:34.689\n好 , 謝 謝 楊 曜 委 員 。\n\n","segments":[{"start":12.046,"end":15.368,"text":"謝謝主席。主席我請一下旅次長。好,請旅次長。"},{"start":20.774,"end":39.863,"text":"市長,我們今天審議老人福利法第二十二條跟第二十五條的修正草案。市長,我們今天審議老人福利法第二十二條跟第二十五條的修正草案。市長,我們今天審議老人福利法第二十二條跟第二十五條的修正草案。市長,我們今天審議老人福利法第二十二條跟第二十五條的修正草案。市長,我們今天審議老人福利法第二十二條跟第二十五條的修正草案。市長,我們今天審議老人福利法第二十二條跟第二十五條的修正草案。市長,我們今天審議老人福利法第二十二條跟第二十五條的修正草案。市長,我們今天審議老人福"},{"start":41.618,"end":65.026,"text":"六類的投保對象。對不對。我覺得與其從年齡來做劃分,我覺得第六類的投保對象通常都是經濟比較弱勢的,他可能沒有雇主,也可能是人民融券。"},{"start":68.042,"end":94.544,"text":"現在就你們的了解第六類的投保對象他的保費跟他的造成的經濟負擔會是怎麼樣?好,非常感謝委員對於這部分的關心。我想兩個重點。第一個就是說我們現在確實就是六類數目。那第六類呢其實基本上就是所謂地區人口。那地區人口裡面就是剛剛陳委員所說就是說他就是說沒有任何職業或者說無一定雇主。"},{"start":95.145,"end":110.811,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":111.611,"end":112.572,"text":"對,或者是你們再把第六類再細分一下"},{"start":136.92,"end":164.923,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":165.026,"end":195.026,"text":" ﹏對﹏"},{"start":195.266,"end":223.491,"text":"最需要去關注的反而是邊緣戶的。沒錯沒錯。那你們就是趕快回去繳第六類,然後不是像比較特殊的聚場之類的。然後又沒有福保的。沒錯。你們把它獨立出來,我覺得這個是最需要,而且是不分年齡的。沒錯沒錯。他是以家庭來看。"},{"start":224.951,"end":251.467,"text":"委員王,你的意見真的是非常好。必須要說,真的非常佩服委員的這一個意見。那我們這個就是說,是不是允許我們在這邊,我們趕快把這一個,您剛剛說的特殊的這一個禁品的部分,我們來看看能不能有些相關的一些規定,把它放寬。這個部分我想來納入,我想這個是確實,就是說把我們,就是幫咱,最需要幫咱的這個品種。我想這是一個精神。我非常佩服委員的這一個高見,謝謝。那,因為"},{"start":255.338,"end":267.988,"text":"因為我這邊看到的資料是未付出統計假如說全面的補助65歲以上的長者健保費呢,中央必須要增加400億啊。欸,大約359。359?"},{"start":267.988,"end":268.008,"text":"是。"},{"start":272.031,"end":277.436,"text":"那我跟委員報告就是說因為每一年,我們現在高齡化嘛,那預估到2054會增加到627億,627億,那這個其實老師說2054會增加到627億,等於double嘛,double其實這樣會排擠掉我們現在目前已經推動很多很多像長照3.0啊,我們價錢的這個費用。"},{"start":298.686,"end":316.16,"text":"所以這個假如法有通過,這個還是要用公務預算來審查?當然。其他的我們等一下討論法條的時候再講。好的。我問一下,因為我們現在已經允許外國"},{"start":319.632,"end":342.839,"text":" ﹖勞動部五月初預告了外國人從事就業服務法的46條﹖他大概就是允許外國人可以在臺灣考取﹖取得社公司的國土執照﹖可是沒有辦法工作啊﹖是不是﹖他考取不能工作嗎﹖"},{"start":344.36,"end":369.179,"text":"目前預告要放寬我們現在已經預告了準備要來放寬我也跟委員報告我知道這個很多事實上就是說那等於是喬生對喬生他們我覺得這也很好因為喬生他們事實上因為我們的社會工作裡面也有一些像針對新住民等等這些他需要有一些文化敏感度那其實由他們他們在語言上面這個會有很多很多的一些這個共同性所以我想這個我們會來放寬我講我的看法就是說"},{"start":371.681,"end":382.439,"text":"他說我們只要允許他參加國考,沒有道理不讓他投入社會公司的工作行列。對不對?"},{"start":387.233,"end":414.96,"text":"欸包委,反正我確實我們這個部分已經完成預告,那我們會朝這個部分的放寬,這個方向來進行。我跟你講這個確實也是對於我們本國的,我們整個這個社會工作人力一個很好的補充,這個很好。對,那至於說文化的差異,那個我覺得那個是在考試之前要訓練的。我好像知道要參加社工時的國考必須要有400個小時的工作時間。"},{"start":417.421,"end":435.76,"text":"那在這400個小時裡面他大概就必須要有他會有適度的進入。一樣關心一下社工師。社工以及社工人員的"},{"start":438.476,"end":439.939,"text":"則不予審查 ．則不予審查．則不予審查．"},{"start":452.056,"end":479.718,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":479.918,"end":481.098,"text":"﹚楊曜﹚楊曜﹚楊曜﹚"},{"start":509.349,"end":528.534,"text":"我們重點都在被照顧者,其實照顧者本身的問題也不少。這個次長有什麼想法?你今天可以大概講一下就好了。我想整個有關社工的勞動條件,其實委員最重要的是心理智商。"},{"start":529.314,"end":548.371,"text":" ﹖其實據我所知像主席王育敏﹖王委員其實他也是長期﹖過去也是社工方面出身﹖對這方面非常非常關心﹖那這個部分有關於像﹖這個部分我們大概兩個重點﹖第一個就是說我們從107年起我們有公益彩券的回饋金﹖有一個提升社工人員職業安全計畫﹖"},{"start":549.472,"end":573.522,"text":"這裡面包括就是說整個這一個對於我們的整個這個社公司的這一個社會心理的這一個諮商還有甚至還有包括律師諮詢費這個都從這個account他來支付另外第二個其實我們現在目前從去我們從這個去年開始有一個心理健康師針對15到30歲的這一個民眾他都有這一個他都有三次"},{"start":574.042,"end":603.611,"text":"的這一個免費的心理諮商的這個機會。那我想雙管齊下,當然我認為對我們社工同仁還是真的不足。我過去在台中擔任社會局長,我知道特別是家防的部分,同仁真的是非常非常辛苦。像王委員過去也是對這一塊,擔任副市長的時候也是對這塊非常非常關心。那我想這邊我們會來跟續,來其實真的對於社工同仁,像劉建國委員還有關心嘛,就是除了薪資之外,心理的輔導我們一定要來 empower我們的社工同仁。"},{"start":604.371,"end":633.02,"text":"對,然後你們回去大概也再看看從107年到現在我們執行的成效怎麼樣。不要讓照顧者,我還是要講一下台灣社會對照顧者的關懷跟支持顯然太少了一點。好,謝謝市長,謝謝主席。好的,非常感謝楊偉文的指教,謝謝。"},{"start":634.448,"end":634.689,"text":"好,謝謝楊曜委員。"}]}}}}