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\"此或是虛偽證據負起刑法上政治上的責任所以執政執行權很重要所以當時你主張官員在國會如果說法說謊要有形式上跟政治上的責任到目前為止你還是一樣主張嗎對執行權就是要強化那他當然必須要能夠有他的效力是所以當時你的主張到現在\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"此\", \"start\": 64.136, \"end\": 64.416, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 64.416, \"end\": 64.617, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 64.617, \"end\": 65.717, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"虛\"}, {\"word\": \"偽\"}, {\"word\": \"證\"}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"負\", \"start\": 65.717, \"end\": 65.877, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 65.877, \"end\": 66.158, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"刑\", \"start\": 66.158, \"end\": 66.898, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 66.898, \"end\": 67.239, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 67.239, \"end\": 67.759, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 67.759, \"end\": 67.999, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"治\", \"start\": 67.999, \"end\": 68.159, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 68.159, \"end\": 68.339, \"score\": 0.999}, 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{\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 87.554, \"end\": 87.714, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 87.714, \"end\": 87.854, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 87.854, \"end\": 87.974, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"效\", \"start\": 87.974, \"end\": 88.174, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 88.174, \"end\": 88.655, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 88.655, \"end\": 89.095, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 89.095, \"end\": 89.255, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 89.255, \"end\": 90.316, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 90.316, \"end\": 90.436, \"score\": 0.71}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 90.436, \"end\": 90.576, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 90.576, \"end\": 91.097, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 91.097, \"end\": 91.597, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 91.597, \"end\": 91.617, \"score\": 0.999}]}, {\"start\": 93.166, \"end\": 115.957, \"text\": \"國民黨跟民眾黨我們通過的再修正動議25條幫您達成了只限官員如果來立法院說謊或是陳述不實的話會有形式上跟政治上的責任來我們再看下一個您當時也有提到說不只政府官員人民社團法人也要善盡公民的義務及責任\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 93.166, \"end\": 93.766, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 93.766, \"end\": 94.287, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 94.287, \"end\": 94.967, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 94.967, \"end\": 95.207, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 95.207, \"end\": 95.587, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 95.587, \"end\": 96.208, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 96.208, \"end\": 96.388, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 96.388, \"end\": 96.548, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 96.548, \"end\": 98.109, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"幫\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 98.109, \"end\": 98.529, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"達\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 98.529, \"end\": 98.749, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 98.749, \"end\": 100.29, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 100.29, \"end\": 100.57, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"限\", \"start\": 100.57, \"end\": 100.89, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"官\", \"start\": 100.89, \"end\": 101.39, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 101.39, \"end\": 101.51, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 101.51, \"end\": 102.13, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 102.13, \"end\": 102.311, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 102.311, \"end\": 102.491, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 102.491, \"end\": 104.131, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"謊\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 104.131, \"end\": 104.272, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 104.272, \"end\": 104.572, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"述\", \"start\": 104.572, \"end\": 104.712, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 104.712, \"end\": 104.832, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 104.832, \"end\": 105.352, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 105.352, \"end\": 105.512, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"形\", \"start\": 105.512, \"end\": 105.712, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 105.712, \"end\": 105.872, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 105.872, \"end\": 106.092, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 106.092, \"end\": 106.313, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 106.313, \"end\": 106.473, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"治\", \"start\": 106.473, \"end\": 106.593, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 106.593, \"end\": 106.833, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 106.833, \"end\": 106.993, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 106.993, \"end\": 107.593, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 107.593, \"end\": 107.673, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 107.673, \"end\": 107.813, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 107.813, \"end\": 107.993, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 107.993, \"end\": 108.234, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 108.234, \"end\": 109.134, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 109.134, \"end\": 109.514, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 109.514, \"end\": 109.654, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 109.654, \"end\": 109.874, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 109.874, \"end\": 110.034, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"到\", 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{\"word\": \"善\", \"start\": 114.497, \"end\": 115.097, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"盡\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 115.097, \"end\": 115.317, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 115.317, \"end\": 115.577, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 115.577, \"end\": 115.777, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"義\"}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 115.777, \"end\": 115.937, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 115.937, \"end\": 115.957, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 117.398, \"end\": 127.414, \"text\": \"所以如果人民社團法人為他的不實證詞或拒絕來就應該要科與罰則至少要科10萬元以下的罰款\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 117.398, \"end\": 117.578, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 117.578, \"end\": 117.759, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 117.759, \"end\": 117.959, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 117.959, \"end\": 118.861, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 118.861, \"end\": 119.041, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 119.041, \"end\": 119.461, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 119.461, \"end\": 120.002, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"團\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 120.002, \"end\": 120.223, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 120.223, \"end\": 120.984, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 120.984, \"end\": 121.204, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 121.204, \"end\": 121.364, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 121.364, \"end\": 122.246, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"證\"}, {\"word\": \"詞\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 122.246, \"end\": 122.506, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"拒\", \"start\": 122.506, \"end\": 123.528, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"絕\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 123.528, \"end\": 123.949, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 123.949, \"end\": 124.149, \"score\": 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\"民\", \"start\": 577.99, \"end\": 578.15, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"帶\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 578.15, \"end\": 578.17, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"際\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"en\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,008 --> 00:00:18,428\n部 長 已 經 先 就 位 了 , 好 , 也 是 我 們 老 朋 友 啦 , 我 們 之 前 在 交 通 委 員 會 跟 交 通 部 林 佳 龍 部 長 有 很 多 的 討 論 , 不 過 部 長 , 我 們 先 回 顧 一 下 , 當 時 1 0 2 卷 第 一 期 的 這 個 公 聽 會 , 你 有 印 象 嗎 ?\n\n2\n00:00:19,502 --> 00:00:41,901\n有 有 嗎 因 為 您 在 那 邊 有 發 言 其 實 我 想 國 會 改 革 紛 紛 擾 擾 有 在 野 時 候 有 執 政 時 候 大 家 都 有 主 張 但 特 別 我 想 請 林 佳 龍 部 長 也 是 之 前 林 佳 龍 委 員 來 看 一 下 他 當 時 怎 麼 說 林 佳 龍 委 員 這 是 您 的 逐 字 稿 我 就 先 標 題 讓 你 知 道 這 是 您 所 說 的 話 來 下 一 頁\n\n3\n00:00:46,001 --> 00:01:02,735\n您 當 時 認 為 最 重 要 是 立 委 對 政 府 官 員 的 質 詢 如 果 說 官 員 只 在 那 1 0 分 鐘 當 個 木 頭 人 被 罵 幾 句 事 後 什 麼 事 情 都 沒 有 發 生 這 個 質 詢 沒 有 法 律 上 的 約 束 而 如 果 官 員 說 謊 更 是 要 在 國 會 殿 堂 所 做 的 不 實 證\n\n4\n00:01:04,136 --> 00:01:31,617\n此 或 是 虛 偽 證 據 負 起 刑 法 上 政 治 上 的 責 任 所 以 執 政 執 行 權 很 重 要 所 以 當 時 你 主 張 官 員 在 國 會 如 果 說 法 說 謊 要 有 形 式 上 跟 政 治 上 的 責 任 到 目 前 為 止 你 還 是 一 樣 主 張 嗎 對 執 行 權 就 是 要 強 化 那 他 當 然 必 須 要 能 夠 有 他 的 效 力 是 所 以 當 時 你 的 主 張 到 現 在\n\n5\n00:01:33,166 --> 00:01:55,957\n國 民 黨 跟 民 眾 黨 我 們 通 過 的 再 修 正 動 議 2 5 條 幫 您 達 成 了 只 限 官 員 如 果 來 立 法 院 說 謊 或 是 陳 述 不 實 的 話 會 有 形 式 上 跟 政 治 上 的 責 任 來 我 們 再 看 下 一 個 您 當 時 也 有 提 到 說 不 只 政 府 官 員 人 民 社 團 法 人 也 要 善 盡 公 民 的 義 務 及 責 任\n\n6\n00:01:57,398 --> 00:02:07,414\n所 以 如 果 人 民 社 團 法 人 為 他 的 不 實 證 詞 或 拒 絕 來 就 應 該 要 科 與 罰 則 至 少 要 科 1 0 萬 元 以 下 的 罰 款\n\n7\n00:02:08,732 --> 00:02:32,988\n而 且 你 那 時 候 講 如 果 人 民 社 團 法 人 做 隱 匿 或 是 虛 偽 的 證 詞 還 要 負 刑 法 上 的 責 任 也 就 是 一 年 以 下 或 是 一 顆 一 百 萬 元 以 下 到 目 前 為 止 你 還 是 這 樣 主 張 嗎 是 我 跟 委 員 說 明 因 為 要 調 閱 權 這 是 大 法 官 的 解 釋 那 你 立 法 委 員 要 行 使 職 權 你 要 強 化 你 的 執 行 權 要 讓 那 個 調 閱 權 可 以 有 效\n\n8\n00:02:33,929 --> 00:02:34,309\n佳 龍 部 長 您 先 稍 等\n\n9\n00:02:57,476 --> 00:03:10,247\n這 個 我 們 現 在 討 論 都 是 公 聽 會 或 是 聽 證 會 嘛 您 當 時 主 張 是 人 民 如 果 來 做 隱 匿 或 是 虛 偽 的 證 詞 還 要 負 刑 法 上 的 責 任 也 就 是 一 年 以 下 或 是 一 科 一 百 萬 元 以 下\n\n10\n00:03:11,468 --> 00:03:13,869\n所 以 公 聽 會 人 民 如 果 來 做 隱 匿 或 是 虛 偽 證 詞 就 要 負 刑 法 上 的 責 任 一 年 以 下 或 是 一 顆 一 百 萬 元 以 下\n\n11\n00:03:29,778 --> 00:03:44,745\n而 且 對 於 反 對 強 化 立 法 院 調 查 權 的 立 委 都 應 該 公 佈 讓 社 會 知 道 問 問 他 們 為 什 麼 自 我 閹 割 這 個 是 有 前 提 跟 配 套 我 就 講 說 是 大 法 官 解 釋 你 們 質 疑 於 調 閱 權 的 行 使 所 以 資 料 本 身 不 是 司 法 的 調 查 權 這 個 要 把 它 分 開 對 沒 有 錯 但 是 現 在 都 在 討 論 是 聽 證 權 或 是 公 聽 會 嘛 對 不 對 所 以 本 席 可 以 很 負 責 任 的 告 訴 您 在\n\n12\n00:03:56,671 --> 00:04:17,705\n這 一 次 的 國 會 改 革 在 修 正 動 議 裡 面 人 民 社 團 或 是 法 人 如 果 說 來 聽 證 會 及 他 有 做 虛 偽 不 實 的 話 是 沒 有 刑 責 的 比 您 當 時 在 十 幾 年 前 所 主 張 的 還 要 輕 微 你 當 時 主 張 是 要 一 年 以 下 對 於 人 民 有 一 年 以 下 的 刑 責\n\n13\n00:04:19,025 --> 00:04:32,442\n本 席 也 很 負 責 告 訴 你 反 對 強 化 立 法 院 調 查 權 的 立 委 就 是 民 進 黨 團 現 在 的 5 1 席 立 委 問 問 他 們 為 什 麼 要 自 我 閹 割 我 們 立 法 院 的 調 查 權\n\n14\n00:04:34,158 --> 00:04:53,917\n林 佳 龍 部 長 根 據 委 員 報 告 因 為 我 的 內 容 跟 你 不 一 樣 我 有 個 上 位 的 權 利 分 立 依 據 憲 法 上 對 於 五 權 的 規 定 所 以 有 關 於 具 有 司 法 性 質 的 調 查 權 那 是 屬 於 司 法 院 跟 監 察 院 在 資 料 的 調 閱 權 上 面 我 們 要 讓 它 有 效 必 須 強 化 國 會\n\n15\n00:04:55,478 --> 00:05:06,668\n不 要 混 移 焦 點 我 從 頭 到 尾 還 沒 有 跟 你 講 到 調 閱 或 是 調 查 你 現 在 這 一 張 都 討 論 的 是 公 聽 會 跟 聽 證 會 本 席 剛 剛 從 頭 到 尾 都 在 跟 你 討 論 的 是 公 聽 會 跟 聽 證 會 所 以 公 聽 會 跟 聽 證 會 因 為 上 面 的 東 西 是 權 力 分 立 的 跟 分 工 嘛 下 面 的 才 有 我 們 立 法 院 的 權 怎 麼 去 強 化 行 使\n\n16\n00:05:18,939 --> 00:05:43,598\n來 謝 謝 因 為 外 面 都 有 斷 章 取 義 我 也 利 用 這 個 機 會 說 明 一 下 沒 有 問 題 給 你 說 明 我 現 在 還 不 會 跟 你 講 說 你 現 在 算 是 藐 視 國 會 不 過 本 席 這 個 我 順 便 說 明 我 沒 有 藐 視 國 會 的 文 字 出 現 在 我 的 這 個 委 員 會 的 提 案 裡 面 我 知 道 你 沒 有 把 這 個 是 藐 視 國 會 這 個 我 有 一 說 一 你 從 頭 到 尾 你 在 1 2 年 前 的 這 個 公 聽 會 上 沒 有 講 到 藐 視 國 會 這 個 我 還 你 清 白 來\n\n17\n00:05:46,540 --> 00:06:01,065\n部 長 拉 回 來 啦 前 兩 天 本 席 看 到 外 交 部 有 一 個 非 常 好 的 記 者 會 這 個 記 者 會 講 是 說 我 們 也 加 入 了 全 球 隱 私 執 法 合 作 協 議 那 主 要 的 目 的 跟 方 式 是 要 做 什 麼\n\n18\n00:06:02,786 --> 00:06:04,547\n全 球 隱 私 執 法 合 作 協 議 這 是 你 們 5 月 2 8 號 所 召 開 的 記 者 會\n\n19\n00:06:19,502 --> 00:06:20,562\n主 要 的 重 點 盼 加 強 各 資 的 保 障\n\n20\n00:06:38,787 --> 00:07:07,197\n是 那 我 想 請 教 現 在 要 推 動 並 且 也 有 要 跟 其 他 的 國 際 夥 伴 這 邊 要 共 同 推 動 隱 私 執 法 的 合 作 強 化 民 眾 的 個 資 保 障 那 這 樣 子 外 交 部 的 具 體 作 為 會 不 會 跟 我 們 最 近 的 這 個 新 聞 有 執 政 黨 的 執 行 長 傳 出 說 掌 握 了 公 民 活 動 群 眾 個 資 的 監 控 會 不 會 跟 我 們 外 交 部 加 入 這 個 合 作 協 議 的 初 始 初 終 相 抵 觸\n\n21\n00:07:08,629 --> 00:07:12,752\n因 為 你 提 的 是 個 案 我 對 這 個 個 案 我 並 不 清 楚 所 以 我 也 沒 辦 法 在 這 裡 針 對 這 個 個 案 來 評 論 但 是 原 則 性 我 們 當 然 台 灣 不 只 是 說 加 入 這 個 協 議 我 們 也 是 對 於 聯 合 國 的 兩 個 公 約\n\n22\n00:07:25,302 --> 00:07:42,862\n還 有 相 關 對 於 隱 私 保 障 , 我 們 有 一 整 套 的 法 律 制 度 。 擔 不 擔 心 我 們 國 際 友 邦 或 加 入 這 樣 協 議 的 其 他 的 國 際 會 員 問 起 說 怎 麼 會 執 政 黨 的 執 行 長 居 然 會 去 有 掌 握 群 眾 各 自 的 一 個 新 聞 ?\n\n23\n00:07:43,763 --> 00:07:44,804\n您 之 前 也 是 外 交 部 跟 曾 經 擔 任 過 交 通 部 長\n\n24\n00:07:58,780 --> 00:08:25,681\n那 之 前 外 交 部 跟 交 通 部 有 共 同 宣 誓 希 望 能 夠 推 動 再 一 次 的 來 參 與 I Q 也 就 是 國 際 民 航 組 織 是 國 際 民 航 組 織 相 對 來 講 我 覺 得 是 非 常 重 要 因 為 對 於 我 們 台 灣 來 講 這 一 些 都 是 第 一 手 的 資 訊 那 現 在 換 您 擔 任 外 交 部 長 了 過 去 可 能 大 家 也 會 講 說 上 一 任 的 外 交 部 長 戰 狼 性 格 很 強 那 您 現 在 有 沒 有 信 心 任 內 有 機 會 我 們 參 與 國 際 民 航 組 織 I Q\n\n25\n00:08:28,843 --> 00:08:48,521\n我 們 就 是 努 力 , 全 力 以 赴 , 因 為 這 些 國 際 組 織 都 涉 及 到 很 多 的 對 中 共 的 一 個 影 響 另 外 對 於 國 際 法 的 解 釋 , 所 以 我 們 是 朝 這 個 目 標 來 努 力 , 因 為 這 個 國 際 民 航 組 織 涉 及 到 的 其 實 非 常 的 安 全 是 跨 越 國 境 的 因 為 我 覺 得 您 是 最 有 資 格 講 這 個 話 的 人\n\n26\n00:08:50,423 --> 00:09:02,959\n您 擔 任 過 交 通 部 長 之 前 的 民 航 業 務 是 您 主 管 現 在 您 又 擔 任 外 交 部 長 所 以 能 夠 對 外 發 聲 並 且 來 積 極 展 現 參 與 國 際 民 航 組 織 您 是 最 有 資 格 有 多 少 把 握 ?\n\n27\n00:09:04,244 --> 00:09:19,859\n我 們 努 力 , 因 為 其 實 這 個 組 織 我 以 前 當 然 也 包 括 我 當 交 部 長 跟 美 國 有 協 調 要 去 推 動 , 但 事 實 上 當 然 因 為 這 個 組 織 的 秘 書 處 , 他 本 身 目 前 的 狀 況 我 還 很 需 要 去 再 突 破 。\n\n28\n00:09:21,961 --> 00:09:38,170\n本 席 提 醒 , 對 外 我 們 一 致 都 是 以 中 華 民 國 在 國 際 上 發 聲 , 本 席 也 期 待 外 交 部 長 能 夠 跟 之 前 的 戰 狼 性 格 有 所 不 同 , 發 揮 你 的 個 人 專 長 跟 魅 力 , 真 的 把 中 華 民 國 帶 出 國 際 。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1008\t18428\t部長已經先就位了,好,也是我們老朋友啦,我們之前在交通委員會跟交通部林佳龍部長有很多的討論,不過部長,我們先回顧一下,當時102卷第一期的這個公聽會,你有印象嗎?\n19502\t41901\t有 有嗎 因為您在那邊有發言其實我想國會改革紛紛擾擾有在野時候有執政時候大家都有主張但特別我想請林佳龍部長也是之前林佳龍委員來看一下他當時怎麼說林佳龍委員這是您的逐字稿我就先標題讓你知道這是您所說的話來 下一頁\n46001\t62735\t您當時認為最重要是立委對政府官員的質詢如果說官員只在那10分鐘當個木頭人被罵幾句事後什麼事情都沒有發生這個質詢沒有法律上的約束而如果官員說謊更是要在國會殿堂所做的不實證\n64136\t91617\t此或是虛偽證據負起刑法上政治上的責任所以執政執行權很重要所以當時你主張官員在國會如果說法說謊要有形式上跟政治上的責任到目前為止你還是一樣主張嗎對執行權就是要強化那他當然必須要能夠有他的效力是所以當時你的主張到現在\n93166\t115957\t國民黨跟民眾黨我們通過的再修正動議25條幫您達成了只限官員如果來立法院說謊或是陳述不實的話會有形式上跟政治上的責任來我們再看下一個您當時也有提到說不只政府官員人民社團法人也要善盡公民的義務及責任\n117398\t127414\t所以如果人民社團法人為他的不實證詞或拒絕來就應該要科與罰則至少要科10萬元以下的罰款\n128732\t152988\t而且你那時候講如果人民社團法人做隱匿或是虛偽的證詞還要負刑法上的責任也就是一年以下或是一顆一百萬元以下到目前為止你還是這樣主張嗎是我跟委員說明因為要調閱權這是大法官的解釋那你立法委員要行使職權你要強化你的執行權要讓那個調閱權可以有效\n153929\t154309\t佳龍部長您先稍等\n177476\t190247\t這個我們現在討論都是公聽會或是聽證會嘛您當時主張是人民如果來做隱匿或是虛偽的證詞還要負刑法上的責任也就是一年以下或是一科一百萬元以下\n191468\t193869\t所以公聽會人民如果來做隱匿或是虛偽證詞就要負刑法上的責任一年以下或是一顆一百萬元以下\n209778\t224745\t而且對於反對強化立法院調查權的立委都應該公佈讓社會知道問問他們為什麼自我閹割這個是有前提跟配套我就講說是大法官解釋你們質疑於調閱權的行使所以資料本身不是司法的調查權這個要把它分開對沒有錯但是現在都在討論是聽證權或是公聽會嘛對不對所以本席可以很負責任的告訴您在\n236671\t257705\t這一次的國會改革在修正動議裡面人民社團或是法人如果說來聽證會及他有做虛偽不實的話是沒有刑責的比您當時在十幾年前所主張的還要輕微你當時主張是要一年以下對於人民有一年以下的刑責\n259025\t272442\t本席也很負責告訴你反對強化立法院調查權的立委就是民進黨團現在的51席立委問問他們為什麼要自我閹割我們立法院的調查權\n274158\t293917\t林佳龍部長根據委員報告 因為我的內容跟你不一樣 我有個上位的權利分立依據憲法上對於五權的規定所以有關於具有司法性質的調查權 那是屬於司法院跟監察院在資料的調閱權上面 我們要讓它有效 必須強化國會\n295478\t306668\t不要混移焦點我從頭到尾還沒有跟你講到調閱或是調查你現在這一張都討論的是公聽會跟聽證會本席剛剛從頭到尾都在跟你討論的是公聽會跟聽證會所以公聽會跟聽證會因為上面的東西是權力分立的跟分工嘛下面的才有我們立法院的權怎麼去強化行使\n318939\t343598\t來 謝謝因為外面都有斷章取義我也利用這個機會說明一下沒有問題給你說明我現在還不會跟你講說你現在算是藐視國會不過本席這個我順便說明我沒有藐視國會的文字出現在我的這個委員會的提案裡面我知道你沒有把這個是藐視國會這個我有一說一你從頭到尾你在12年前的這個公聽會上沒有講到藐視國會這個我還你清白來\n346540\t361065\t部長拉回來啦前兩天本席看到外交部有一個非常好的記者會這個記者會講是說我們也加入了全球隱私執法合作協議那主要的目的跟方式是要做什麼\n362786\t364547\t全球隱私執法合作協議這是你們5月28號所召開的記者會\n379502\t380562\t主要的重點 盼加強各資的保障\n398787\t427197\t是那我想請教現在要推動並且也有要跟其他的國際夥伴這邊要共同推動隱私執法的合作強化民眾的個資保障那這樣子外交部的具體作為會不會跟我們最近的這個新聞有執政黨的執行長傳出說掌握了公民活動群眾個資的監控會不會跟我們外交部加入這個合作協議的初始初終相抵觸\n428629\t432752\t因為你提的是個案我對這個個案我並不清楚所以我也沒辦法在這裡針對這個個案來評論但是原則性我們當然台灣不只是說加入這個協議我們也是對於聯合國的兩個公約\n445302\t462862\t還有相關對於隱私保障,我們有一整套的法律制度。擔不擔心我們國際友邦或加入這樣協議的其他的國際會員問起說怎麼會執政黨的執行長居然會去有掌握群眾各自的一個新聞?\n463763\t464804\t您之前也是外交部跟曾經擔任過交通部長\n478780\t505681\t那之前外交部跟交通部有共同宣誓希望能夠推動再一次的來參與IQ也就是國際民航組織是國際民航組織相對來講我覺得是非常重要因為對於我們台灣來講這一些都是第一手的資訊那現在換您擔任外交部長了過去可能大家也會講說上一任的外交部長戰狼性格很強那您現在有沒有信心任內有機會我們參與國際民航組織IQ\n508843\t528521\t我們就是努力,全力以赴,因為這些國際組織都涉及到很多的對中共的一個影響另外對於國際法的解釋,所以我們是朝這個目標來努力,因為這個國際民航組織涉及到的其實非常的安全是跨越國境的因為我覺得您是最有資格講這個話的人\n530423\t542959\t您擔任過交通部長之前的民航業務是您主管現在您又擔任外交部長所以能夠對外發聲並且來積極展現參與國際民航組織您是最有資格有多少把握?\n544244\t559859\t我們努力,因為其實這個組織我以前當然也包括我當交部長跟美國有協調要去推動,但事實上當然因為這個組織的秘書處,他本身目前的狀況我還很需要去再突破。\n561961\t578170\t本席提醒,對外我們一致都是以中華民國在國際上發聲,本席也期待外交部長能夠跟之前的戰狼性格有所不同,發揮你的個人專長跟魅力,真的把中華民國帶出國際。\n","txt":"部長已經先就位了,好,也是我們老朋友啦,我們之前在交通委員會跟交通部林佳龍部長有很多的討論,不過部長,我們先回顧一下,當時102卷第一期的這個公聽會,你有印象嗎?\n有 有嗎 因為您在那邊有發言其實我想國會改革紛紛擾擾有在野時候有執政時候大家都有主張但特別我想請林佳龍部長也是之前林佳龍委員來看一下他當時怎麼說林佳龍委員這是您的逐字稿我就先標題讓你知道這是您所說的話來 下一頁\n您當時認為最重要是立委對政府官員的質詢如果說官員只在那10分鐘當個木頭人被罵幾句事後什麼事情都沒有發生這個質詢沒有法律上的約束而如果官員說謊更是要在國會殿堂所做的不實證\n此或是虛偽證據負起刑法上政治上的責任所以執政執行權很重要所以當時你主張官員在國會如果說法說謊要有形式上跟政治上的責任到目前為止你還是一樣主張嗎對執行權就是要強化那他當然必須要能夠有他的效力是所以當時你的主張到現在\n國民黨跟民眾黨我們通過的再修正動議25條幫您達成了只限官員如果來立法院說謊或是陳述不實的話會有形式上跟政治上的責任來我們再看下一個您當時也有提到說不只政府官員人民社團法人也要善盡公民的義務及責任\n所以如果人民社團法人為他的不實證詞或拒絕來就應該要科與罰則至少要科10萬元以下的罰款\n而且你那時候講如果人民社團法人做隱匿或是虛偽的證詞還要負刑法上的責任也就是一年以下或是一顆一百萬元以下到目前為止你還是這樣主張嗎是我跟委員說明因為要調閱權這是大法官的解釋那你立法委員要行使職權你要強化你的執行權要讓那個調閱權可以有效\n佳龍部長您先稍等\n這個我們現在討論都是公聽會或是聽證會嘛您當時主張是人民如果來做隱匿或是虛偽的證詞還要負刑法上的責任也就是一年以下或是一科一百萬元以下\n所以公聽會人民如果來做隱匿或是虛偽證詞就要負刑法上的責任一年以下或是一顆一百萬元以下\n而且對於反對強化立法院調查權的立委都應該公佈讓社會知道問問他們為什麼自我閹割這個是有前提跟配套我就講說是大法官解釋你們質疑於調閱權的行使所以資料本身不是司法的調查權這個要把它分開對沒有錯但是現在都在討論是聽證權或是公聽會嘛對不對所以本席可以很負責任的告訴您在\n這一次的國會改革在修正動議裡面人民社團或是法人如果說來聽證會及他有做虛偽不實的話是沒有刑責的比您當時在十幾年前所主張的還要輕微你當時主張是要一年以下對於人民有一年以下的刑責\n本席也很負責告訴你反對強化立法院調查權的立委就是民進黨團現在的51席立委問問他們為什麼要自我閹割我們立法院的調查權\n林佳龍部長根據委員報告 因為我的內容跟你不一樣 我有個上位的權利分立依據憲法上對於五權的規定所以有關於具有司法性質的調查權 那是屬於司法院跟監察院在資料的調閱權上面 我們要讓它有效 必須強化國會\n不要混移焦點我從頭到尾還沒有跟你講到調閱或是調查你現在這一張都討論的是公聽會跟聽證會本席剛剛從頭到尾都在跟你討論的是公聽會跟聽證會所以公聽會跟聽證會因為上面的東西是權力分立的跟分工嘛下面的才有我們立法院的權怎麼去強化行使\n來 謝謝因為外面都有斷章取義我也利用這個機會說明一下沒有問題給你說明我現在還不會跟你講說你現在算是藐視國會不過本席這個我順便說明我沒有藐視國會的文字出現在我的這個委員會的提案裡面我知道你沒有把這個是藐視國會這個我有一說一你從頭到尾你在12年前的這個公聽會上沒有講到藐視國會這個我還你清白來\n部長拉回來啦前兩天本席看到外交部有一個非常好的記者會這個記者會講是說我們也加入了全球隱私執法合作協議那主要的目的跟方式是要做什麼\n全球隱私執法合作協議這是你們5月28號所召開的記者會\n主要的重點 盼加強各資的保障\n是那我想請教現在要推動並且也有要跟其他的國際夥伴這邊要共同推動隱私執法的合作強化民眾的個資保障那這樣子外交部的具體作為會不會跟我們最近的這個新聞有執政黨的執行長傳出說掌握了公民活動群眾個資的監控會不會跟我們外交部加入這個合作協議的初始初終相抵觸\n因為你提的是個案我對這個個案我並不清楚所以我也沒辦法在這裡針對這個個案來評論但是原則性我們當然台灣不只是說加入這個協議我們也是對於聯合國的兩個公約\n還有相關對於隱私保障,我們有一整套的法律制度。擔不擔心我們國際友邦或加入這樣協議的其他的國際會員問起說怎麼會執政黨的執行長居然會去有掌握群眾各自的一個新聞?\n您之前也是外交部跟曾經擔任過交通部長\n那之前外交部跟交通部有共同宣誓希望能夠推動再一次的來參與IQ也就是國際民航組織是國際民航組織相對來講我覺得是非常重要因為對於我們台灣來講這一些都是第一手的資訊那現在換您擔任外交部長了過去可能大家也會講說上一任的外交部長戰狼性格很強那您現在有沒有信心任內有機會我們參與國際民航組織IQ\n我們就是努力,全力以赴,因為這些國際組織都涉及到很多的對中共的一個影響另外對於國際法的解釋,所以我們是朝這個目標來努力,因為這個國際民航組織涉及到的其實非常的安全是跨越國境的因為我覺得您是最有資格講這個話的人\n您擔任過交通部長之前的民航業務是您主管現在您又擔任外交部長所以能夠對外發聲並且來積極展現參與國際民航組織您是最有資格有多少把握?\n我們努力,因為其實這個組織我以前當然也包括我當交部長跟美國有協調要去推動,但事實上當然因為這個組織的秘書處,他本身目前的狀況我還很需要去再突破。\n本席提醒,對外我們一致都是以中華民國在國際上發聲,本席也期待外交部長能夠跟之前的戰狼性格有所不同,發揮你的個人專長跟魅力,真的把中華民國帶出國際。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.008 --> 00:18.428\n部 長 已 經 先 就 位 了 , 好 , 也 是 我 們 老 朋 友 啦 , 我 們 之 前 在 交 通 委 員 會 跟 交 通 部 林 佳 龍 部 長 有 很 多 的 討 論 , 不 過 部 長 , 我 們 先 回 顧 一 下 , 當 時 1 0 2 卷 第 一 期 的 這 個 公 聽 會 , 你 有 印 象 嗎 ?\n\n00:19.502 --> 00:41.901\n有 有 嗎 因 為 您 在 那 邊 有 發 言 其 實 我 想 國 會 改 革 紛 紛 擾 擾 有 在 野 時 候 有 執 政 時 候 大 家 都 有 主 張 但 特 別 我 想 請 林 佳 龍 部 長 也 是 之 前 林 佳 龍 委 員 來 看 一 下 他 當 時 怎 麼 說 林 佳 龍 委 員 這 是 您 的 逐 字 稿 我 就 先 標 題 讓 你 知 道 這 是 您 所 說 的 話 來 下 一 頁\n\n00:46.001 --> 01:02.735\n您 當 時 認 為 最 重 要 是 立 委 對 政 府 官 員 的 質 詢 如 果 說 官 員 只 在 那 1 0 分 鐘 當 個 木 頭 人 被 罵 幾 句 事 後 什 麼 事 情 都 沒 有 發 生 這 個 質 詢 沒 有 法 律 上 的 約 束 而 如 果 官 員 說 謊 更 是 要 在 國 會 殿 堂 所 做 的 不 實 證\n\n01:04.136 --> 01:31.617\n此 或 是 虛 偽 證 據 負 起 刑 法 上 政 治 上 的 責 任 所 以 執 政 執 行 權 很 重 要 所 以 當 時 你 主 張 官 員 在 國 會 如 果 說 法 說 謊 要 有 形 式 上 跟 政 治 上 的 責 任 到 目 前 為 止 你 還 是 一 樣 主 張 嗎 對 執 行 權 就 是 要 強 化 那 他 當 然 必 須 要 能 夠 有 他 的 效 力 是 所 以 當 時 你 的 主 張 到 現 在\n\n01:33.166 --> 01:55.957\n國 民 黨 跟 民 眾 黨 我 們 通 過 的 再 修 正 動 議 2 5 條 幫 您 達 成 了 只 限 官 員 如 果 來 立 法 院 說 謊 或 是 陳 述 不 實 的 話 會 有 形 式 上 跟 政 治 上 的 責 任 來 我 們 再 看 下 一 個 您 當 時 也 有 提 到 說 不 只 政 府 官 員 人 民 社 團 法 人 也 要 善 盡 公 民 的 義 務 及 責 任\n\n01:57.398 --> 02:07.414\n所 以 如 果 人 民 社 團 法 人 為 他 的 不 實 證 詞 或 拒 絕 來 就 應 該 要 科 與 罰 則 至 少 要 科 1 0 萬 元 以 下 的 罰 款\n\n02:08.732 --> 02:32.988\n而 且 你 那 時 候 講 如 果 人 民 社 團 法 人 做 隱 匿 或 是 虛 偽 的 證 詞 還 要 負 刑 法 上 的 責 任 也 就 是 一 年 以 下 或 是 一 顆 一 百 萬 元 以 下 到 目 前 為 止 你 還 是 這 樣 主 張 嗎 是 我 跟 委 員 說 明 因 為 要 調 閱 權 這 是 大 法 官 的 解 釋 那 你 立 法 委 員 要 行 使 職 權 你 要 強 化 你 的 執 行 權 要 讓 那 個 調 閱 權 可 以 有 效\n\n02:33.929 --> 02:34.309\n佳 龍 部 長 您 先 稍 等\n\n02:57.476 --> 03:10.247\n這 個 我 們 現 在 討 論 都 是 公 聽 會 或 是 聽 證 會 嘛 您 當 時 主 張 是 人 民 如 果 來 做 隱 匿 或 是 虛 偽 的 證 詞 還 要 負 刑 法 上 的 責 任 也 就 是 一 年 以 下 或 是 一 科 一 百 萬 元 以 下\n\n03:11.468 --> 03:13.869\n所 以 公 聽 會 人 民 如 果 來 做 隱 匿 或 是 虛 偽 證 詞 就 要 負 刑 法 上 的 責 任 一 年 以 下 或 是 一 顆 一 百 萬 元 以 下\n\n03:29.778 --> 03:44.745\n而 且 對 於 反 對 強 化 立 法 院 調 查 權 的 立 委 都 應 該 公 佈 讓 社 會 知 道 問 問 他 們 為 什 麼 自 我 閹 割 這 個 是 有 前 提 跟 配 套 我 就 講 說 是 大 法 官 解 釋 你 們 質 疑 於 調 閱 權 的 行 使 所 以 資 料 本 身 不 是 司 法 的 調 查 權 這 個 要 把 它 分 開 對 沒 有 錯 但 是 現 在 都 在 討 論 是 聽 證 權 或 是 公 聽 會 嘛 對 不 對 所 以 本 席 可 以 很 負 責 任 的 告 訴 您 在\n\n03:56.671 --> 04:17.705\n這 一 次 的 國 會 改 革 在 修 正 動 議 裡 面 人 民 社 團 或 是 法 人 如 果 說 來 聽 證 會 及 他 有 做 虛 偽 不 實 的 話 是 沒 有 刑 責 的 比 您 當 時 在 十 幾 年 前 所 主 張 的 還 要 輕 微 你 當 時 主 張 是 要 一 年 以 下 對 於 人 民 有 一 年 以 下 的 刑 責\n\n04:19.025 --> 04:32.442\n本 席 也 很 負 責 告 訴 你 反 對 強 化 立 法 院 調 查 權 的 立 委 就 是 民 進 黨 團 現 在 的 5 1 席 立 委 問 問 他 們 為 什 麼 要 自 我 閹 割 我 們 立 法 院 的 調 查 權\n\n04:34.158 --> 04:53.917\n林 佳 龍 部 長 根 據 委 員 報 告 因 為 我 的 內 容 跟 你 不 一 樣 我 有 個 上 位 的 權 利 分 立 依 據 憲 法 上 對 於 五 權 的 規 定 所 以 有 關 於 具 有 司 法 性 質 的 調 查 權 那 是 屬 於 司 法 院 跟 監 察 院 在 資 料 的 調 閱 權 上 面 我 們 要 讓 它 有 效 必 須 強 化 國 會\n\n04:55.478 --> 05:06.668\n不 要 混 移 焦 點 我 從 頭 到 尾 還 沒 有 跟 你 講 到 調 閱 或 是 調 查 你 現 在 這 一 張 都 討 論 的 是 公 聽 會 跟 聽 證 會 本 席 剛 剛 從 頭 到 尾 都 在 跟 你 討 論 的 是 公 聽 會 跟 聽 證 會 所 以 公 聽 會 跟 聽 證 會 因 為 上 面 的 東 西 是 權 力 分 立 的 跟 分 工 嘛 下 面 的 才 有 我 們 立 法 院 的 權 怎 麼 去 強 化 行 使\n\n05:18.939 --> 05:43.598\n來 謝 謝 因 為 外 面 都 有 斷 章 取 義 我 也 利 用 這 個 機 會 說 明 一 下 沒 有 問 題 給 你 說 明 我 現 在 還 不 會 跟 你 講 說 你 現 在 算 是 藐 視 國 會 不 過 本 席 這 個 我 順 便 說 明 我 沒 有 藐 視 國 會 的 文 字 出 現 在 我 的 這 個 委 員 會 的 提 案 裡 面 我 知 道 你 沒 有 把 這 個 是 藐 視 國 會 這 個 我 有 一 說 一 你 從 頭 到 尾 你 在 1 2 年 前 的 這 個 公 聽 會 上 沒 有 講 到 藐 視 國 會 這 個 我 還 你 清 白 來\n\n05:46.540 --> 06:01.065\n部 長 拉 回 來 啦 前 兩 天 本 席 看 到 外 交 部 有 一 個 非 常 好 的 記 者 會 這 個 記 者 會 講 是 說 我 們 也 加 入 了 全 球 隱 私 執 法 合 作 協 議 那 主 要 的 目 的 跟 方 式 是 要 做 什 麼\n\n06:02.786 --> 06:04.547\n全 球 隱 私 執 法 合 作 協 議 這 是 你 們 5 月 2 8 號 所 召 開 的 記 者 會\n\n06:19.502 --> 06:20.562\n主 要 的 重 點 盼 加 強 各 資 的 保 障\n\n06:38.787 --> 07:07.197\n是 那 我 想 請 教 現 在 要 推 動 並 且 也 有 要 跟 其 他 的 國 際 夥 伴 這 邊 要 共 同 推 動 隱 私 執 法 的 合 作 強 化 民 眾 的 個 資 保 障 那 這 樣 子 外 交 部 的 具 體 作 為 會 不 會 跟 我 們 最 近 的 這 個 新 聞 有 執 政 黨 的 執 行 長 傳 出 說 掌 握 了 公 民 活 動 群 眾 個 資 的 監 控 會 不 會 跟 我 們 外 交 部 加 入 這 個 合 作 協 議 的 初 始 初 終 相 抵 觸\n\n07:08.629 --> 07:12.752\n因 為 你 提 的 是 個 案 我 對 這 個 個 案 我 並 不 清 楚 所 以 我 也 沒 辦 法 在 這 裡 針 對 這 個 個 案 來 評 論 但 是 原 則 性 我 們 當 然 台 灣 不 只 是 說 加 入 這 個 協 議 我 們 也 是 對 於 聯 合 國 的 兩 個 公 約\n\n07:25.302 --> 07:42.862\n還 有 相 關 對 於 隱 私 保 障 , 我 們 有 一 整 套 的 法 律 制 度 。 擔 不 擔 心 我 們 國 際 友 邦 或 加 入 這 樣 協 議 的 其 他 的 國 際 會 員 問 起 說 怎 麼 會 執 政 黨 的 執 行 長 居 然 會 去 有 掌 握 群 眾 各 自 的 一 個 新 聞 ?\n\n07:43.763 --> 07:44.804\n您 之 前 也 是 外 交 部 跟 曾 經 擔 任 過 交 通 部 長\n\n07:58.780 --> 08:25.681\n那 之 前 外 交 部 跟 交 通 部 有 共 同 宣 誓 希 望 能 夠 推 動 再 一 次 的 來 參 與 I Q 也 就 是 國 際 民 航 組 織 是 國 際 民 航 組 織 相 對 來 講 我 覺 得 是 非 常 重 要 因 為 對 於 我 們 台 灣 來 講 這 一 些 都 是 第 一 手 的 資 訊 那 現 在 換 您 擔 任 外 交 部 長 了 過 去 可 能 大 家 也 會 講 說 上 一 任 的 外 交 部 長 戰 狼 性 格 很 強 那 您 現 在 有 沒 有 信 心 任 內 有 機 會 我 們 參 與 國 際 民 航 組 織 I Q\n\n08:28.843 --> 08:48.521\n我 們 就 是 努 力 , 全 力 以 赴 , 因 為 這 些 國 際 組 織 都 涉 及 到 很 多 的 對 中 共 的 一 個 影 響 另 外 對 於 國 際 法 的 解 釋 , 所 以 我 們 是 朝 這 個 目 標 來 努 力 , 因 為 這 個 國 際 民 航 組 織 涉 及 到 的 其 實 非 常 的 安 全 是 跨 越 國 境 的 因 為 我 覺 得 您 是 最 有 資 格 講 這 個 話 的 人\n\n08:50.423 --> 09:02.959\n您 擔 任 過 交 通 部 長 之 前 的 民 航 業 務 是 您 主 管 現 在 您 又 擔 任 外 交 部 長 所 以 能 夠 對 外 發 聲 並 且 來 積 極 展 現 參 與 國 際 民 航 組 織 您 是 最 有 資 格 有 多 少 把 握 ?\n\n09:04.244 --> 09:19.859\n我 們 努 力 , 因 為 其 實 這 個 組 織 我 以 前 當 然 也 包 括 我 當 交 部 長 跟 美 國 有 協 調 要 去 推 動 , 但 事 實 上 當 然 因 為 這 個 組 織 的 秘 書 處 , 他 本 身 目 前 的 狀 況 我 還 很 需 要 去 再 突 破 。\n\n09:21.961 --> 09:38.170\n本 席 提 醒 , 對 外 我 們 一 致 都 是 以 中 華 民 國 在 國 際 上 發 聲 , 本 席 也 期 待 外 交 部 長 能 夠 跟 之 前 的 戰 狼 性 格 有 所 不 同 , 發 揮 你 的 個 人 專 長 跟 魅 力 , 真 的 把 中 華 民 國 帶 出 國 際 。\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.008,"end":18.428,"text":"部長已經先就位了,好,也是我們老朋友啦,我們之前在交通委員會跟交通部林佳龍部長有很多的討論,不過部長,我們先回顧一下,當時102卷第一期的這個公聽會,你有印象嗎?"},{"start":19.502,"end":41.901,"text":"有 有嗎 因為您在那邊有發言其實我想國會改革紛紛擾擾有在野時候有執政時候大家都有主張但特別我想請林佳龍部長也是之前林佳龍委員來看一下他當時怎麼說林佳龍委員這是您的逐字稿我就先標題讓你知道這是您所說的話來 下一頁"},{"start":46.001,"end":62.735,"text":"您當時認為最重要是立委對政府官員的質詢如果說官員只在那10分鐘當個木頭人被罵幾句事後什麼事情都沒有發生這個質詢沒有法律上的約束而如果官員說謊更是要在國會殿堂所做的不實證"},{"start":64.136,"end":91.617,"text":"此或是虛偽證據負起刑法上政治上的責任所以執政執行權很重要所以當時你主張官員在國會如果說法說謊要有形式上跟政治上的責任到目前為止你還是一樣主張嗎對執行權就是要強化那他當然必須要能夠有他的效力是所以當時你的主張到現在"},{"start":93.166,"end":115.957,"text":"國民黨跟民眾黨我們通過的再修正動議25條幫您達成了只限官員如果來立法院說謊或是陳述不實的話會有形式上跟政治上的責任來我們再看下一個您當時也有提到說不只政府官員人民社團法人也要善盡公民的義務及責任"},{"start":117.398,"end":127.414,"text":"所以如果人民社團法人為他的不實證詞或拒絕來就應該要科與罰則至少要科10萬元以下的罰款"},{"start":128.732,"end":152.988,"text":"而且你那時候講如果人民社團法人做隱匿或是虛偽的證詞還要負刑法上的責任也就是一年以下或是一顆一百萬元以下到目前為止你還是這樣主張嗎是我跟委員說明因為要調閱權這是大法官的解釋那你立法委員要行使職權你要強化你的執行權要讓那個調閱權可以有效"},{"start":153.929,"end":154.309,"text":"佳龍部長您先稍等"},{"start":177.476,"end":190.247,"text":"這個我們現在討論都是公聽會或是聽證會嘛您當時主張是人民如果來做隱匿或是虛偽的證詞還要負刑法上的責任也就是一年以下或是一科一百萬元以下"},{"start":191.468,"end":193.869,"text":"所以公聽會人民如果來做隱匿或是虛偽證詞就要負刑法上的責任一年以下或是一顆一百萬元以下"},{"start":209.778,"end":224.745,"text":"而且對於反對強化立法院調查權的立委都應該公佈讓社會知道問問他們為什麼自我閹割這個是有前提跟配套我就講說是大法官解釋你們質疑於調閱權的行使所以資料本身不是司法的調查權這個要把它分開對沒有錯但是現在都在討論是聽證權或是公聽會嘛對不對所以本席可以很負責任的告訴您在"},{"start":236.671,"end":257.705,"text":"這一次的國會改革在修正動議裡面人民社團或是法人如果說來聽證會及他有做虛偽不實的話是沒有刑責的比您當時在十幾年前所主張的還要輕微你當時主張是要一年以下對於人民有一年以下的刑責"},{"start":259.025,"end":272.442,"text":"本席也很負責告訴你反對強化立法院調查權的立委就是民進黨團現在的51席立委問問他們為什麼要自我閹割我們立法院的調查權"},{"start":274.158,"end":293.917,"text":"林佳龍部長根據委員報告 因為我的內容跟你不一樣 我有個上位的權利分立依據憲法上對於五權的規定所以有關於具有司法性質的調查權 那是屬於司法院跟監察院在資料的調閱權上面 我們要讓它有效 必須強化國會"},{"start":295.478,"end":306.668,"text":"不要混移焦點我從頭到尾還沒有跟你講到調閱或是調查你現在這一張都討論的是公聽會跟聽證會本席剛剛從頭到尾都在跟你討論的是公聽會跟聽證會所以公聽會跟聽證會因為上面的東西是權力分立的跟分工嘛下面的才有我們立法院的權怎麼去強化行使"},{"start":318.939,"end":343.598,"text":"來 謝謝因為外面都有斷章取義我也利用這個機會說明一下沒有問題給你說明我現在還不會跟你講說你現在算是藐視國會不過本席這個我順便說明我沒有藐視國會的文字出現在我的這個委員會的提案裡面我知道你沒有把這個是藐視國會這個我有一說一你從頭到尾你在12年前的這個公聽會上沒有講到藐視國會這個我還你清白來"},{"start":346.54,"end":361.065,"text":"部長拉回來啦前兩天本席看到外交部有一個非常好的記者會這個記者會講是說我們也加入了全球隱私執法合作協議那主要的目的跟方式是要做什麼"},{"start":362.786,"end":364.547,"text":"全球隱私執法合作協議這是你們5月28號所召開的記者會"},{"start":379.502,"end":380.562,"text":"主要的重點 盼加強各資的保障"},{"start":398.787,"end":427.197,"text":"是那我想請教現在要推動並且也有要跟其他的國際夥伴這邊要共同推動隱私執法的合作強化民眾的個資保障那這樣子外交部的具體作為會不會跟我們最近的這個新聞有執政黨的執行長傳出說掌握了公民活動群眾個資的監控會不會跟我們外交部加入這個合作協議的初始初終相抵觸"},{"start":428.629,"end":432.752,"text":"因為你提的是個案我對這個個案我並不清楚所以我也沒辦法在這裡針對這個個案來評論但是原則性我們當然台灣不只是說加入這個協議我們也是對於聯合國的兩個公約"},{"start":445.302,"end":462.862,"text":"還有相關對於隱私保障,我們有一整套的法律制度。擔不擔心我們國際友邦或加入這樣協議的其他的國際會員問起說怎麼會執政黨的執行長居然會去有掌握群眾各自的一個新聞?"},{"start":463.763,"end":464.804,"text":"您之前也是外交部跟曾經擔任過交通部長"},{"start":478.78,"end":505.681,"text":"那之前外交部跟交通部有共同宣誓希望能夠推動再一次的來參與IQ也就是國際民航組織是國際民航組織相對來講我覺得是非常重要因為對於我們台灣來講這一些都是第一手的資訊那現在換您擔任外交部長了過去可能大家也會講說上一任的外交部長戰狼性格很強那您現在有沒有信心任內有機會我們參與國際民航組織IQ"},{"start":508.843,"end":528.521,"text":"我們就是努力,全力以赴,因為這些國際組織都涉及到很多的對中共的一個影響另外對於國際法的解釋,所以我們是朝這個目標來努力,因為這個國際民航組織涉及到的其實非常的安全是跨越國境的因為我覺得您是最有資格講這個話的人"},{"start":530.423,"end":542.959,"text":"您擔任過交通部長之前的民航業務是您主管現在您又擔任外交部長所以能夠對外發聲並且來積極展現參與國際民航組織您是最有資格有多少把握?"},{"start":544.244,"end":559.859,"text":"我們努力,因為其實這個組織我以前當然也包括我當交部長跟美國有協調要去推動,但事實上當然因為這個組織的秘書處,他本身目前的狀況我還很需要去再突破。"},{"start":561.961,"end":578.17,"text":"本席提醒,對外我們一致都是以中華民國在國際上發聲,本席也期待外交部長能夠跟之前的戰狼性格有所不同,發揮你的個人專長跟魅力,真的把中華民國帶出國際。"}]}}}}