{"id":153410,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153410","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/bbbc431469b8aeba03fdf4a9baaf8b64cb22e1ce6086f58b446d6a815e91374487405cc7a6e4ec875ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳瑩","委員發言時間":"12:14:11 - 12:24:27","影片長度":"00:10:16","會議時間":"2024-05-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關原住民族委員會預算凍結書面報告案計4案。二、處理財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會113年度預算凍結書面報告案計1案。三、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。四、審查(一)委員高金素梅等22人擬具「都會原住民權利發展條例草案」案。(二)委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「都市原住民發展條例草案」案。(三)委員陳瑩等16人擬具「都市地區原住民族發展條例草案」案。(四)委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等21人擬具「都市原住民發展條例草案」案。【詢答及處理；第(四)案如經院會復議則不予審查】）","date":"2024-05-30","start_time":"2024-05-30T12:14:11+08:00","end_time":"2024-05-30T12:24:27+08:00","duration":616,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":21,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-21"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1239,"blocks":[["陳委員瑩：（12時14分）好，謝謝主席。主席請坐，我等一下再請他們上來。"],["主席：好。"],["陳委員瑩：剛才在場的政務官，還有我們所有的公務人員們，要請你們小心了，因為剛剛竟然有立委質詢說沒有接電話叫藐視立委，那沒有回電話，也是叫做藐視立委，我想這種事情拿到這裡來講，實在是藐視國會啊。我認為要得到大家的尊重，真的就是要從自身做起，讓大家從心裡面真正地尊重你，這才叫真正的尊重。所以是不是未來我們在野黨是不是也要再提案，未來如果沒有接到立委的電話，又沒有回電話的話，也要判刑，也要抓去關，也要罰款？首先，我先請一下原語會的董事長。"],["主席：請原語會董事長馬耀‧谷木。謝謝。"],["陳委員瑩：好，謝謝。董事長，是這樣，因為剛剛盧縣一委員有特別就業務報告的部分，提到書寫的方式，我想在業務報告上面其實也滿清楚的，就是說主委的名字兩個都是大寫，一個是家族的姓氏，一個是名字，是這樣嗎？"],["馬耀．谷木董事長：報告委員，後面是父姓。"],["陳委員瑩：父姓？"],["馬耀．谷木董事長：父姓。"],["陳委員瑩：好。那這個部分就是都有大寫，所以很清楚，我們可以看到報告人Ljaucu主委的名字就是大寫，剛好是一個滿好的案例。我也想特別提醒一下，因為過去夷將主委在推動族語的時候，我們花很多時間在做口語上的學習，但是在書寫上，我比較沒有印象有聽到我們有在做這個部分，考試或教學就比較少。我們也很疑惑，像我在美國求學寫論文的時候，每一個段落英文字母都要大寫，講到人名、地名、專有名詞的時候，第一個字母也是要大寫，還有標點符號。所以我想請教主委，族語的部分，你們是不是未來也針對書寫方式有一個統一的規則？"],["馬耀．谷木董事長：跟委員報告，基本上，第一個、去年我們已經跟我們相關的16個語推組織達成共識，也跟長期在推動族語的大學院校跟部落達成共識，也在去年頒布初步共識的版本，接著會跟16個語推組織做協調討論，預計在年底提出比較完整的共識版，在目前已經提出了一個參考版，也透過各語推的耆老們，尊重各族群的書寫方法。"],["陳委員瑩：好，我覺得這個很棒，你們真的很不錯。因為書寫的部分在過去確實並沒有加強太多，所以這個部分也希望你們完成之後可以儘快公布，然後讓大家可以熟悉、瞭解一下這個書寫的方式。好，謝謝。請回座。","接下來請社福處羅處長。"],["主席：有請羅處長。"],["羅處長赫踛：委員好。"],["陳委員瑩：處長，你們5月28日（星期二）在食藥署針對各族群傳統特色食材之管理原則，邀集相關單位開溝通會議，你清楚這個事吧？"],["羅處長赫踛：瞭解。"],["陳委員瑩：你們誰去開的？"],["羅處長赫踛：是承辦同仁跟我們相關……"],["陳委員瑩：哪一位？"],["羅處長赫踛：是科員跟一個專管助理。"],["陳委員瑩：好。食藥署會開這個溝通會議，主要是因為我們族人常常使用及販售的在地野生傳統食材，雖然對我們而言，這些野菜我們都常見，對我們來說，其實是傳統食材，但是有些在食藥署的食品原料整合查詢平台裡面是完全查不到的，因為查不到，所以就被列為非傳統性的食品原料，族人販售這些食材如果被檢舉了，就會被依違反食安法來裁罰，針對這個問題，我已經多次請食藥署依族群特性來重新檢討相關規定。前天的會議你們有派員去，原民會提供給食藥署的傳統飲食清單總共只有14項，農業部提了137項，我辦公室有詢問原民會這14項是怎麼來的，大家猜猜看怎麼來的？我聽了嚇一跳，你們是依據轉型正義委員會委員提供的清單挑出來的，是轉型正義委員會委員提供的清單嘛？"],["羅處長赫踛：跟委員報告一下，因為轉型正義委員會裡面也在關心這個事情，剛好我們也請過去有瞭解這件事的……"],["陳委員瑩：我覺得你們這樣是便宜行事耶。他們全部都是專家嗎？全部的委員都是耆老嗎？都是很有經驗的嗎？人家送清單給你們之後，你們有主動再去調查其他各個族群嗎？有嗎？"],["羅處長赫踛：我們後續會主動調查。"],["陳委員瑩：就是後續才主動調查？"],["羅處長赫踛：對。"],["陳委員瑩：人家已經要開會，人家動作都很快，結果你們就只拿了那些委員提供的清單，你看下面都有人在搖頭了。"],["羅處長赫踛：我跟委員報告，我們現在有盤點，有516項相關的，但是因為我們第一次跟食藥署合作，我們先提14筆，可以納入可用食品一覽表裡面去做，所以這個合作模式建立起來，我們後續會陸續再提供。"],["陳委員瑩：因為你們14項品項有月桃、荖藤、臺灣胡椒、山肉桂等等，但是阿美族人常吃的芒草心就沒有，所以到底有多少品項已經有在食品原料整合查詢平台，還有多少品項是沒有？你們提供14項真的太少了。另外，依食藥署的規定，非傳統性的食品要納入查詢平台，就是可以做問卷去判定，具有完整的毒理學安全性學術文獻報告，以及成功食用的紀錄要25年，還有28天的餵毒性試驗和基因毒性試驗、90天的餵毒性試驗跟基因毒性試驗、致畸試驗。其實我們原住民族沒有文字，所以要舉證這些食物長久食用的歷史可能有困難，所以才召開這樣子的會議，也就是希望各族群可以提供相關意見，但是你們那個唯一代表你們去開會的人，在整場會議裡面，唯一的回答就是這14項是依照轉型正義委員會那邊來的，我很傻眼，其他意見統統都沒有反映，反而與會的其他人士就提出很多的問題。所以我就提醒你們，你們的原住民族傳統醫療知識復振計畫現在有進行口述歷史的收集，這些口述歷史的收集，除了作為紀錄之外，其實應該有一些是對我們原住民傳統食材要納入查詢平台是有幫助的吧？應該是有吧？"],["羅處長赫踛：有。有記錄一些長者過去的一些傳統……"],["陳委員瑩：對，所以要請你們好好利用啊。"],["羅處長赫踛：好，好的。"],["陳委員瑩：我希望你們可以設定目標值，我不知道你們大概多久可以全部盤點調查完畢？"],["羅處長赫踛：目前先掌握的是516項，但是因為我們還要去跟可用食品一覽表比對，所以還要一段時間。"],["陳委員瑩：對，但是你先盤點，我講的是盤點的部分嘛。"],["羅處長赫踛：所以還要一段時間。"],["陳委員瑩：對啦，多久啦？"],["羅處長赫踛：我們在一個月先做完整個的盤點，訂定目標值之後，再分批陸續跟食藥署協調。"],["陳委員瑩：所以你預計時間是多久？你是要設定目標值啊。"],["羅處長赫踛：對、對，我會設定目標值。"],["陳委員瑩：所以你一個月就全部完成？"],["羅處長赫踛：一個月是先盤點，確認之後，我們再去訂定一個目標值。"],["陳委員瑩：如果這個評估完可以直接納入平台是最好，如果真的沒有辦法，需要經過我剛剛講的那些測試的話，我們再來協調各部會，像農業部，看大家怎麼分工，因為這個經費是不會花太多啦。我希望你們一定要優先把品項確認好，請你們要再主動、積極，特別是去跟其他部會開會的時候，處長，你要不要考慮自己下來盯這個案子？"],["羅處長赫踛：沒有問題，好，是。"],["陳委員瑩：好，謝謝。"],["羅處長赫踛：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝陳瑩委員的質詢，謝謝。謝謝羅處長。","繼續我們請楊瓊瓔委員。楊瓊瓔、楊瓊瓔委員不在。","請林倩綺委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":148,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-21","speakers":["高金素梅","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳瑩","蘇巧慧","張宏陸","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","黃捷","王美惠","李柏毅","黃仁","吳琪銘","許宇甄","盧縣一","徐欣瑩","林倩綺","丁學忠","張智倫","黃建賓"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-05-30"],"gazette_id":"1135501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135501_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關原住民族委員會預算凍結書面報告案計4案；二、處理財\n團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會113年度預算凍結書面報告案計1案；三、邀請原住民族委員\n會主任委員率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；四、審查(一)委員高金素梅等22人擬具「都\n會原住民權利發展條例草案」案、(二)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人擬具「都市原住民發展條例\n草案」案、( 三) 委員陳瑩等16 人擬具「都市地區原住民族發展條例草案」案、( 四) 委員伍麗華\nSaidhai Tahovecahe 等21人擬具「都市原住民發展條例草案」案","agenda_id":"1135501_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"153410","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153410","tool":"pyannote","id":"153410-pyannote"},"job_id":"kCbCULGLwt7KNXaw","queued_at":"2024-05-30 13:18:16","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-05-30 13:19:45","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153410"},{"time":"2024-05-30 13:19:46","msg":"downloading 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\"族\", \"start\": 319.889, \"end\": 320.189, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"群\", \"start\": 320.189, \"end\": 320.589, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 320.589, \"end\": 320.89, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 320.89, \"end\": 321.29, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 321.29, \"end\": 321.83, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 321.83, \"end\": 322.011, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 322.011, \"end\": 322.591, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 322.591, \"end\": 323.071, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 323.071, \"end\": 323.692, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 323.692, \"end\": 323.852, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 323.852, \"end\": 323.992, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 323.992, \"end\": 324.213, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 324.213, \"end\": 324.233, \"score\": 0.98}]}, {\"start\": 324.753, \"end\": 328.735, \"text\": \"委員會提供給食藥署的傳統飲食清單總共只有14項農業部提了137項辦公室有詢問這個委員會說你們14項是怎麼來的大家猜猜看怎麼來\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 324.753, \"end\": 324.793, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 324.793, \"end\": 324.893, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 324.893, \"end\": 324.993, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"食\", \"start\": 324.993, \"end\": 325.093, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"藥\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 325.093, \"end\": 325.213, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 325.213, \"end\": 325.253, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"傳\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"飲\"}, {\"word\": \"食\", \"start\": 325.253, \"end\": 325.493, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 325.493, \"end\": 325.954, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 325.954, \"end\": 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\"我聽了嚇一跳啊你們是依據轉型正義委員會的清單挑出來的那個轉型正義委員會那邊委員提供的清單嗎跟委員報告一下因為轉型正義委員會裡面也在關心這個事情那剛好那個我們也請那個比較有過去有這瞭解這樣一個委員對\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 344.414, \"end\": 344.674, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"聽\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 344.674, \"end\": 344.975, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"嚇\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 344.975, \"end\": 345.075, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"跳\", \"start\": 345.075, \"end\": 345.315, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 345.315, \"end\": 345.995, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 345.995, \"end\": 346.256, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 346.256, \"end\": 346.496, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"依\", \"start\": 346.496, \"end\": 347.577, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"轉\"}, {\"word\": \"型\", \"start\": 347.577, \"end\": 347.877, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 347.877, \"end\": 348.257, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"義\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", 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回 電 話 也 是 叫 做 藐 視 立 委 我 想 這 種 事 情 拿 到 這 裡 來 講 實 在 是 藐 視 國 會 啊\n\n2\n00:00:41,972 --> 00:01:05,128\n我 認 為 要 得 到 這 個 大 家 的 尊 重 真 的 就 是 要 從 自 身 做 起 那 讓 大 家 從 心 裡 面 真 正 的 來 尊 重 你 這 才 叫 真 正 的 尊 重 所 以 是 不 是 未 來 我 們 在 野 黨 是 不 是 也 要 再 提 案 就 是 未 來 如 果 沒 有 接 到 這 個 立 委 的 電 話 又 沒 有 回 電 話 的 話 也 要 給 他 判 刑 也 要 給 他 抓 去 關 也 要 給 他 罰 款\n\n3\n00:01:05,848 --> 00:01:06,949\n請 委 員 會 董 事 長 脈 搏\n\n4\n00:01:23,766 --> 00:01:27,027\n主 委 的 名 字 都 有 大 寫 。 這 個 兩 個 , 一 個 是\n\n5\n00:01:50,459 --> 00:02:05,940\n是 家 族 姓 氏 是 名 字 後 面 是 我 父 親 這 個 部 分 都 有 大 寫 所 以 很 清 楚 我 們 可 以 看 到 報 告 人 這 個 我 們\n\n6\n00:02:06,701 --> 00:02:25,277\n的 這 個 老 處 主 委 是 的 名 字 就 是 大 寫 那 我 想 剛 好 其 實 這 樣 一 個 蠻 好 的 案 例 我 也 想 特 別 提 醒 一 下 因 為 在 過 去 其 實 一 樣 主 委 在 推 動 主 語 的 時 候 我 們 花 很 多 時 間 在 做 一 個 口 語 上 的 這 個 學 習 好 包 括\n\n7\n00:02:26,939 --> 00:02:50,541\n但 是 在 書 寫 上 就 比 較 我 比 較 沒 有 印 象 說 有 聽 到 說 我 們 有 在 做 這 個 部 分 啦 考 試 啦 教 學 啦 就 比 較 少 那 我 們 也 很 疑 惑 像 我 在 美 國 求 學 我 們 寫 論 文 的 時 候 每 一 個 段 落 那 個 英 文 字 母 都 要 大 寫 那 講 到 人 民 或 地 名 專 有 名 詞 的 時 候 那 個 第 一 個 字 母 也 是 要 大 寫\n\n8\n00:02:52,002 --> 00:02:59,788\n還 有 標 點 符 號 。 所 以 我 想 請 教 主 委 說 我 們 主 語 的 部 分 你 們 是 不 是 未 來 也 針 對 書 寫 方 式 有 一 個 統 一 的 規 則 。\n\n9\n00:03:05,316 --> 00:03:24,691\n主 席 跟 委 員 回 復 報 告 那 基 本 上 第 一 個 是 在 去 年 我 們 已 經 跟 我 們 相 關 的 1 6 個 以 推 組 織 做 共 識 跟 也 跟 這 一 個 長 期 在 推 動 主 義 的 相 關 的 大 學 縣 校 跟 部 落 做 共 識 那 也 在 去 年 已 經 頒 布 初 步 共 設 的 版 本\n\n10\n00:03:25,411 --> 00:03:41,933\n也 接 著 會 跟 1 6 個 已 推 組 織 做 協 調 討 論 , 預 計 在 年 底 會 提 出 比 較 完 整 的 共 識 版 。 目 前 已 經 提 出 了 一 個 參 考 版 , 也 透 過 各 已 推 的 相 關 齊 老 們 的 尊 重 各 族 群 的 書 寫 方 法 。\n\n11\n00:03:42,585 --> 00:03:42,625\n委 員 好\n\n12\n00:04:13,662 --> 00:04:35,634\n處 長 就 是 你 們 5 月 2 8 號 就 是 星 期 二 在 食 藥 署 有 針 對 這 個 各 族 群 傳 統 特 色 食 材 之 管 理 原 則 有 邀 集 相 關 單 位 開 這 個 溝 通 會 議 你 清 楚 這 個 是 吧 ? 了 解 你 們 誰 去 開 的 ? 我 們 是 陳 曼 同 仁 跟 我 們 相 關 科 員 跟 一 個 專 管 助 理\n\n13\n00:04:38,479 --> 00:04:51,106\n實 要 署 會 開 溝 通 會 議 主 要 是 因 為 我 們 族 人 常 常 使 用 販 售 在 地 的 野 生 的 傳 統 食 材 雖 然 對 我 們 而 言 這 些 野 菜 我 們 都 常 見 這 些 對 我 們 來 說 其 實 是 傳 統 食 材 但 是 呢\n\n14\n00:04:58,149 --> 00:05:24,233\n有 些 在 食 藥 署 的 這 個 食 品 原 料 整 合 查 詢 平 台 裡 面 是 完 全 查 不 到 了 那 因 為 查 不 到 所 以 就 被 列 為 這 個 非 傳 統 性 的 食 品 原 料 那 族 人 在 販 售 這 些 食 材 如 果 被 檢 舉 了 就 會 被 依 依 這 個 違 反 食 安 法 來 裁 罰 那 針 對 這 個 問 題 我 已 經 多 次 有 邀 集 這 個 請 這 個 食 藥 署 依 這 個 族 群 特 性 的 來 重 新 檢 討 相 關 規 定 那 前 天 呢\n\n15\n00:05:24,753 --> 00:05:28,735\n委 員 會 提 供 給 食 藥 署 的 傳 統 飲 食 清 單 總 共 只 有 1 4 項 農 業 部 提 了 1 3 7 項 辦 公 室 有 詢 問 這 個 委 員 會 說 你 們 1 4 項 是 怎 麼 來 的 大 家 猜 猜 看 怎 麼 來\n\n16\n00:05:44,414 --> 00:06:03,651\n我 聽 了 嚇 一 跳 啊 你 們 是 依 據 轉 型 正 義 委 員 會 的 清 單 挑 出 來 的 那 個 轉 型 正 義 委 員 會 那 邊 委 員 提 供 的 清 單 嗎 跟 委 員 報 告 一 下 因 為 轉 型 正 義 委 員 會 裡 面 也 在 關 心 這 個 事 情 那 剛 好 那 個 我 們 也 請 那 個 比 較 有 過 去 有 這 瞭 解 這 樣 一 個 委 員 對\n\n17\n00:06:05,112 --> 00:06:29,162\n對 , 我 覺 得 你 們 這 樣 是 便 宜 行 事 耶 。 他 們 都 全 部 都 是 專 家 嗎 ? 全 部 的 這 個 委 員 都 是 齊 老 嗎 ? 都 是 很 有 經 驗 的 嗎 ? 人 家 送 名 單 給 你 們 之 後 , 你 們 有 主 動 再 去 調 查 其 他 各 個 族 群 嗎 ? 有 嗎 ? 我 們 後 續 會 主 動 調 查 。 就 是 後 續 才 , 人 家 已 經 要 開 這 個 會 , 人 家 動 作 都 很 快 , 結 果 你 們 就 只 拿 了 , 其 實 說\n\n18\n00:06:30,632 --> 00:06:49,838\n拿 了 那 些 委 員 提 供 的 名 單 你 看 下 面 都 有 人 在 搖 頭 了 我 跟 委 員 報 告 我 們 現 在 有 盤 點 是 有 5 1 6 項 這 相 關 的 但 是 因 為 第 一 次 跟 食 藥 署 合 作 我 們 第 一 次 先 提 那 個 第 1 4 筆 可 以 讓 他 納 入 到 可 用 食 品 依 然 表 裡 面 去 做 所 以 這 個 合 作 模 式 建 立 起 來 我 們 後 續 會 陸 續 再 提 供\n\n19\n00:06:52,287 --> 00:07:18,255\n我 想 是 這 樣 子 就 是 說 因 為 你 們 1 4 項 品 項 有 月 桃 老 藤 、 台 灣 胡 椒 、 山 肉 桂 等 等 但 是 阿 美 族 人 常 吃 的 這 個 芒 草 心 就 沒 有 所 以 就 是 說 到 底 有 多 少 品 項 已 經 有 在 這 個 食 品 原 料 整 合 查 詢 平 台 那 還 有 多 少 品 項 是 沒 有 那 我 是 覺 得 說 另 外 就 是 說 因 為 你 們 提 供 1 4 個 真 的 太 少\n\n20\n00:07:19,336 --> 00:07:42,817\n醫 食 藥 署 規 定 非 傳 統 性 食 品 要 納 入 查 詢 平 台 可 以 做 問 卷 去 判 定 具 有 完 整 的 獨 理 學 的 安 全 性 學 術 文 獻 報 告 以 及 成 功 使 用 的 紀 錄 要 2 5 年 還 有 2 8 天 的 未 毒 性 試 驗 跟 基 因 毒 性 試 驗 還 有 9 0 天 的 未 毒 性 試 驗 跟 基 因 毒 性 試 驗 還 有 致 肌 試 驗\n\n21\n00:07:44,318 --> 00:08:02,356\n除 此 之 外 , 我 們 沒 有 文 字 , 所 以 要 舉 證 這 個 長 久 有 實 用 的 這 些 歷 史 其 實 是 可 能 有 困 難 , 所 以 才 召 開 這 樣 子 的 會 議 。 也 就 希 望 說 各 族 群 可 以 提 供 相 關 意 見 。 所 以 你 們 那 個 唯 一 你 們 去 開 會 的 人 ,\n\n22\n00:08:03,797 --> 00:08:29,932\n在 整 場 會 議 裡 面 唯 一 回 答 就 是 這 1 4 項 是 依 照 轉 型 正 義 委 員 會 那 邊 來 的 我 很 傻 眼 其 他 意 見 通 通 都 沒 有 反 應 反 而 與 會 的 其 他 人 士 就 提 出 很 多 的 問 題 所 以 我 就 提 醒 我 們 在 你 們 那 個 現 在 的 計 劃 原 住 民 族 傳 統 醫 療 知 識 復 正 計 劃 現 在 有 進 行 口 述 歷 史 的 收 集\n\n23\n00:08:30,692 --> 00:08:49,708\n關 於 這 些 口 述 歷 史 的 收 集 除 了 作 為 記 錄 之 外 呢 其 實 應 該 有 一 些 是 對 我 們 這 個 原 住 民 傳 統 食 材 要 納 入 查 詢 平 台 是 有 幫 助 的 吧 應 該 是 有 吧 有 有 記 錄 一 些 我 們 現 在 一 些 長 者 過 去 的 一 些 傳 統 所 以 要 請 你 們 好 好 利 用 啊\n\n24\n00:08:51,449 --> 00:09:11,743\n我 是 我 想 這 樣 子 希 望 你 們 可 以 設 定 目 標 值 啦 那 我 不 知 道 你 們 全 部 的 盤 點 你 們 大 概 多 久 可 以 盤 點 完 畢 盤 點 調 查 完 畢 目 前 先 掌 握 的 是 5 1 6 項 那 但 是 因 為 我 們 還 要 去 比 對 跟 那 個 那 個 可 用 視 頻 藍 表 裡 面 那 所 以 還 要 一 段 時 間 對 但 是 你 先 盤 點 我 講 的 是 盤 點 對 的 部 分 嗎 嗯\n\n25\n00:09:15,962 --> 00:09:41,549\n所 以 還 要 一 段 時 間 。 我 們 在 一 個 月 先 做 完 整 個 盤 點 之 後 , 那 再 按 照 訂 定 目 標 值 之 後 再 分 批 陸 續 再 跟 食 藥 署 協 調 。 所 以 全 部 這 樣 子 , 你 預 計 時 間 , 你 是 要 設 定 目 標 值 啊 ? 對 , 我 會 設 定 目 標 值 。 那 我 先 盤 點 。 所 以 你 一 個 月 就 全 部 完 成 喔 ? 一 個 月 先 是 先 盤 點 , 那 確 認 之 後 我 們 再 去 訂 定 一 個 目 標 值 。\n\n26\n00:09:42,233 --> 00:10:10,698\n好 , 如 果 這 個 評 估 完 可 以 直 接 納 入 平 台 是 最 好 如 果 真 的 沒 有 辦 法 需 要 經 過 這 個 我 剛 剛 講 的 那 些 測 試 的 話 我 想 就 是 說 我 們 再 來 協 調 各 部 會 像 農 業 部 啦 看 大 家 怎 麼 分 工 因 為 這 個 經 費 是 不 會 花 太 多 啦 那 我 是 希 望 你 們 一 定 要 優 先 把 這 個 品 項 確 認 好 那 請 你 們 要 再 主 動 積 極 特 別 去 跟 其 他 部 會 開 會 的 時 候 我 覺 得 處 長 你 要 不 要 考 慮 自 己 下 來 來 盯 這 個 案 子 好 , 謝 謝\n\n27\n00:10:11,698 --> 00:10:11,718\n陳 瑩 委 員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n13793\t39150\t主席請坐我等一下再請他們上來剛才在這個有在場的政務官還有我們所有的公務人員們要請你們小心了因為剛剛竟然有立委質詢說沒有接電話叫藐視立委那沒有回電話也是叫做藐視立委我想這種事情拿到這裡來講實在是藐視國會啊\n41972\t65128\t我認為要得到這個大家的尊重真的就是要從自身做起那讓大家從心裡面真正的來尊重你這才叫真正的尊重所以是不是未來我們在野黨是不是也要再提案就是未來如果沒有接到這個立委的電話又沒有回電話的話也要給他判刑也要給他抓去關也要給他罰款\n65848\t66949\t請委員會董事長脈搏\n83766\t87027\t主委的名字都有大寫。這個兩個,一個是\n110459\t125940\t是家族姓氏是名字後面是我父親這個部分都有大寫所以很清楚我們可以看到報告人這個我們\n126701\t145277\t的這個老處主委是的名字就是大寫那我想剛好其實這樣一個蠻好的案例我也想特別提醒一下因為在過去其實一樣主委在推動主語的時候我們花很多時間在做一個口語上的這個學習好包括\n146939\t170541\t但是在書寫上就比較我比較沒有印象說有聽到說我們有在做這個部分啦考試啦教學啦就比較少那我們也很疑惑像我在美國求學我們寫論文的時候每一個段落那個英文字母都要大寫那講到人民或地名專有名詞的時候那個第一個字母也是要大寫\n172002\t179788\t還有標點符號。所以我想請教主委說我們主語的部分你們是不是未來也針對書寫方式有一個統一的規則。\n185316\t204691\t主席跟委員回復報告那基本上第一個是在去年我們已經跟我們相關的16個以推組織做共識跟也跟這一個長期在推動主義的相關的大學縣校跟部落做共識那也在去年已經頒布初步共設的版本\n205411\t221933\t也接著會跟16個已推組織做協調討論,預計在年底會提出比較完整的共識版。目前已經提出了一個參考版,也透過各已推的相關齊老們的尊重各族群的書寫方法。\n222585\t222625\t委員好\n253662\t275634\t處長就是你們5月28號就是星期二在食藥署有針對這個各族群傳統特色食材之管理原則有邀集相關單位開這個溝通會議你清楚這個是吧?了解你們誰去開的?我們是陳曼同仁跟我們相關科員跟一個專管助理\n278479\t291106\t實要署會開溝通會議主要是因為我們族人常常使用販售在地的野生的傳統食材雖然對我們而言這些野菜我們都常見這些對我們來說其實是傳統食材但是呢\n298149\t324233\t有些在食藥署的這個食品原料整合查詢平台裡面是完全查不到了那因為查不到所以就被列為這個非傳統性的食品原料那族人在販售這些食材如果被檢舉了就會被依依這個違反食安法來裁罰那針對這個問題我已經多次有邀集這個請這個食藥署依這個族群特性的來重新檢討相關規定那前天呢\n324753\t328735\t委員會提供給食藥署的傳統飲食清單總共只有14項農業部提了137項辦公室有詢問這個委員會說你們14項是怎麼來的大家猜猜看怎麼來\n344414\t363651\t我聽了嚇一跳啊你們是依據轉型正義委員會的清單挑出來的那個轉型正義委員會那邊委員提供的清單嗎跟委員報告一下因為轉型正義委員會裡面也在關心這個事情那剛好那個我們也請那個比較有過去有這瞭解這樣一個委員對\n365112\t389162\t對,我覺得你們這樣是便宜行事耶。他們都全部都是專家嗎?全部的這個委員都是齊老嗎?都是很有經驗的嗎?人家送名單給你們之後,你們有主動再去調查其他各個族群嗎?有嗎?我們後續會主動調查。就是後續才,人家已經要開這個會,人家動作都很快,結果你們就只拿了,其實說\n390632\t409838\t拿了那些委員提供的名單你看下面都有人在搖頭了我跟委員報告我們現在有盤點是有516項這相關的但是因為第一次跟食藥署合作我們第一次先提那個第14筆可以讓他納入到可用食品依然表裡面去做所以這個合作模式建立起來我們後續會陸續再提供\n412287\t438255\t我想是這樣子就是說因為你們14項品項有月桃老藤、台灣胡椒、山肉桂等等但是阿美族人常吃的這個芒草心就沒有所以就是說到底有多少品項已經有在這個食品原料整合查詢平台那還有多少品項是沒有那我是覺得說另外就是說因為你們提供14個真的太少\n439336\t462817\t醫食藥署規定非傳統性食品要納入查詢平台可以做問卷去判定具有完整的獨理學的安全性學術文獻報告以及成功使用的紀錄要25年還有28天的未毒性試驗跟基因毒性試驗還有90天的未毒性試驗跟基因毒性試驗還有致肌試驗\n464318\t482356\t除此之外,我們沒有文字,所以要舉證這個長久有實用的這些歷史其實是可能有困難,所以才召開這樣子的會議。也就希望說各族群可以提供相關意見。所以你們那個唯一你們去開會的人,\n483797\t509932\t在整場會議裡面唯一回答就是這14項是依照轉型正義委員會那邊來的我很傻眼其他意見通通都沒有反應反而與會的其他人士就提出很多的問題所以我就提醒我們在你們那個現在的計劃原住民族傳統醫療知識復正計劃現在有進行口述歷史的收集\n510692\t529708\t關於這些口述歷史的收集除了作為記錄之外呢其實應該有一些是對我們這個原住民傳統食材要納入查詢平台是有幫助的吧應該是有吧有有記錄一些我們現在一些長者過去的一些傳統所以要請你們好好利用啊\n531449\t551743\t我是我想這樣子希望你們可以設定目標值啦那我不知道你們全部的盤點你們大概多久可以盤點完畢盤點調查完畢目前先掌握的是516項那但是因為我們還要去比對跟那個那個可用視頻藍表裡面那所以還要一段時間對但是你先盤點我講的是盤點對的部分嗎嗯\n555962\t581549\t所以還要一段時間。我們在一個月先做完整個盤點之後,那再按照訂定目標值之後再分批陸續再跟食藥署協調。所以全部這樣子,你預計時間,你是要設定目標值啊?對,我會設定目標值。那我先盤點。所以你一個月就全部完成喔?一個月先是先盤點,那確認之後我們再去訂定一個目標值。\n582233\t610698\t好,如果這個評估完可以直接納入平台是最好如果真的沒有辦法需要經過這個我剛剛講的那些測試的話我想就是說我們再來協調各部會像農業部啦看大家怎麼分工因為這個經費是不會花太多啦那我是希望你們一定要優先把這個品項確認好那請你們要再主動積極特別去跟其他部會開會的時候我覺得處長你要不要考慮自己下來來盯這個案子好,謝謝\n611698\t611718\t陳瑩委員\n","txt":"主席請坐我等一下再請他們上來剛才在這個有在場的政務官還有我們所有的公務人員們要請你們小心了因為剛剛竟然有立委質詢說沒有接電話叫藐視立委那沒有回電話也是叫做藐視立委我想這種事情拿到這裡來講實在是藐視國會啊\n我認為要得到這個大家的尊重真的就是要從自身做起那讓大家從心裡面真正的來尊重你這才叫真正的尊重所以是不是未來我們在野黨是不是也要再提案就是未來如果沒有接到這個立委的電話又沒有回電話的話也要給他判刑也要給他抓去關也要給他罰款\n請委員會董事長脈搏\n主委的名字都有大寫。這個兩個,一個是\n是家族姓氏是名字後面是我父親這個部分都有大寫所以很清楚我們可以看到報告人這個我們\n的這個老處主委是的名字就是大寫那我想剛好其實這樣一個蠻好的案例我也想特別提醒一下因為在過去其實一樣主委在推動主語的時候我們花很多時間在做一個口語上的這個學習好包括\n但是在書寫上就比較我比較沒有印象說有聽到說我們有在做這個部分啦考試啦教學啦就比較少那我們也很疑惑像我在美國求學我們寫論文的時候每一個段落那個英文字母都要大寫那講到人民或地名專有名詞的時候那個第一個字母也是要大寫\n還有標點符號。所以我想請教主委說我們主語的部分你們是不是未來也針對書寫方式有一個統一的規則。\n主席跟委員回復報告那基本上第一個是在去年我們已經跟我們相關的16個以推組織做共識跟也跟這一個長期在推動主義的相關的大學縣校跟部落做共識那也在去年已經頒布初步共設的版本\n也接著會跟16個已推組織做協調討論,預計在年底會提出比較完整的共識版。目前已經提出了一個參考版,也透過各已推的相關齊老們的尊重各族群的書寫方法。\n委員好\n處長就是你們5月28號就是星期二在食藥署有針對這個各族群傳統特色食材之管理原則有邀集相關單位開這個溝通會議你清楚這個是吧?了解你們誰去開的?我們是陳曼同仁跟我們相關科員跟一個專管助理\n實要署會開溝通會議主要是因為我們族人常常使用販售在地的野生的傳統食材雖然對我們而言這些野菜我們都常見這些對我們來說其實是傳統食材但是呢\n有些在食藥署的這個食品原料整合查詢平台裡面是完全查不到了那因為查不到所以就被列為這個非傳統性的食品原料那族人在販售這些食材如果被檢舉了就會被依依這個違反食安法來裁罰那針對這個問題我已經多次有邀集這個請這個食藥署依這個族群特性的來重新檢討相關規定那前天呢\n委員會提供給食藥署的傳統飲食清單總共只有14項農業部提了137項辦公室有詢問這個委員會說你們14項是怎麼來的大家猜猜看怎麼來\n我聽了嚇一跳啊你們是依據轉型正義委員會的清單挑出來的那個轉型正義委員會那邊委員提供的清單嗎跟委員報告一下因為轉型正義委員會裡面也在關心這個事情那剛好那個我們也請那個比較有過去有這瞭解這樣一個委員對\n對,我覺得你們這樣是便宜行事耶。他們都全部都是專家嗎?全部的這個委員都是齊老嗎?都是很有經驗的嗎?人家送名單給你們之後,你們有主動再去調查其他各個族群嗎?有嗎?我們後續會主動調查。就是後續才,人家已經要開這個會,人家動作都很快,結果你們就只拿了,其實說\n拿了那些委員提供的名單你看下面都有人在搖頭了我跟委員報告我們現在有盤點是有516項這相關的但是因為第一次跟食藥署合作我們第一次先提那個第14筆可以讓他納入到可用食品依然表裡面去做所以這個合作模式建立起來我們後續會陸續再提供\n我想是這樣子就是說因為你們14項品項有月桃老藤、台灣胡椒、山肉桂等等但是阿美族人常吃的這個芒草心就沒有所以就是說到底有多少品項已經有在這個食品原料整合查詢平台那還有多少品項是沒有那我是覺得說另外就是說因為你們提供14個真的太少\n醫食藥署規定非傳統性食品要納入查詢平台可以做問卷去判定具有完整的獨理學的安全性學術文獻報告以及成功使用的紀錄要25年還有28天的未毒性試驗跟基因毒性試驗還有90天的未毒性試驗跟基因毒性試驗還有致肌試驗\n除此之外,我們沒有文字,所以要舉證這個長久有實用的這些歷史其實是可能有困難,所以才召開這樣子的會議。也就希望說各族群可以提供相關意見。所以你們那個唯一你們去開會的人,\n在整場會議裡面唯一回答就是這14項是依照轉型正義委員會那邊來的我很傻眼其他意見通通都沒有反應反而與會的其他人士就提出很多的問題所以我就提醒我們在你們那個現在的計劃原住民族傳統醫療知識復正計劃現在有進行口述歷史的收集\n關於這些口述歷史的收集除了作為記錄之外呢其實應該有一些是對我們這個原住民傳統食材要納入查詢平台是有幫助的吧應該是有吧有有記錄一些我們現在一些長者過去的一些傳統所以要請你們好好利用啊\n我是我想這樣子希望你們可以設定目標值啦那我不知道你們全部的盤點你們大概多久可以盤點完畢盤點調查完畢目前先掌握的是516項那但是因為我們還要去比對跟那個那個可用視頻藍表裡面那所以還要一段時間對但是你先盤點我講的是盤點對的部分嗎嗯\n所以還要一段時間。我們在一個月先做完整個盤點之後,那再按照訂定目標值之後再分批陸續再跟食藥署協調。所以全部這樣子,你預計時間,你是要設定目標值啊?對,我會設定目標值。那我先盤點。所以你一個月就全部完成喔?一個月先是先盤點,那確認之後我們再去訂定一個目標值。\n好,如果這個評估完可以直接納入平台是最好如果真的沒有辦法需要經過這個我剛剛講的那些測試的話我想就是說我們再來協調各部會像農業部啦看大家怎麼分工因為這個經費是不會花太多啦那我是希望你們一定要優先把這個品項確認好那請你們要再主動積極特別去跟其他部會開會的時候我覺得處長你要不要考慮自己下來來盯這個案子好,謝謝\n陳瑩委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:13.793 --> 00:39.150\n主 席 請 坐 我 等 一 下 再 請 他 們 上 來 剛 才 在 這 個 有 在 場 的 政 務 官 還 有 我 們 所 有 的 公 務 人 員 們 要 請 你 們 小 心 了 因 為 剛 剛 竟 然 有 立 委 質 詢 說 沒 有 接 電 話 叫 藐 視 立 委 那 沒 有 回 電 話 也 是 叫 做 藐 視 立 委 我 想 這 種 事 情 拿 到 這 裡 來 講 實 在 是 藐 視 國 會 啊\n\n00:41.972 --> 01:05.128\n我 認 為 要 得 到 這 個 大 家 的 尊 重 真 的 就 是 要 從 自 身 做 起 那 讓 大 家 從 心 裡 面 真 正 的 來 尊 重 你 這 才 叫 真 正 的 尊 重 所 以 是 不 是 未 來 我 們 在 野 黨 是 不 是 也 要 再 提 案 就 是 未 來 如 果 沒 有 接 到 這 個 立 委 的 電 話 又 沒 有 回 電 話 的 話 也 要 給 他 判 刑 也 要 給 他 抓 去 關 也 要 給 他 罰 款\n\n01:05.848 --> 01:06.949\n請 委 員 會 董 事 長 脈 搏\n\n01:23.766 --> 01:27.027\n主 委 的 名 字 都 有 大 寫 。 這 個 兩 個 , 一 個 是\n\n01:50.459 --> 02:05.940\n是 家 族 姓 氏 是 名 字 後 面 是 我 父 親 這 個 部 分 都 有 大 寫 所 以 很 清 楚 我 們 可 以 看 到 報 告 人 這 個 我 們\n\n02:06.701 --> 02:25.277\n的 這 個 老 處 主 委 是 的 名 字 就 是 大 寫 那 我 想 剛 好 其 實 這 樣 一 個 蠻 好 的 案 例 我 也 想 特 別 提 醒 一 下 因 為 在 過 去 其 實 一 樣 主 委 在 推 動 主 語 的 時 候 我 們 花 很 多 時 間 在 做 一 個 口 語 上 的 這 個 學 習 好 包 括\n\n02:26.939 --> 02:50.541\n但 是 在 書 寫 上 就 比 較 我 比 較 沒 有 印 象 說 有 聽 到 說 我 們 有 在 做 這 個 部 分 啦 考 試 啦 教 學 啦 就 比 較 少 那 我 們 也 很 疑 惑 像 我 在 美 國 求 學 我 們 寫 論 文 的 時 候 每 一 個 段 落 那 個 英 文 字 母 都 要 大 寫 那 講 到 人 民 或 地 名 專 有 名 詞 的 時 候 那 個 第 一 個 字 母 也 是 要 大 寫\n\n02:52.002 --> 02:59.788\n還 有 標 點 符 號 。 所 以 我 想 請 教 主 委 說 我 們 主 語 的 部 分 你 們 是 不 是 未 來 也 針 對 書 寫 方 式 有 一 個 統 一 的 規 則 。\n\n03:05.316 --> 03:24.691\n主 席 跟 委 員 回 復 報 告 那 基 本 上 第 一 個 是 在 去 年 我 們 已 經 跟 我 們 相 關 的 1 6 個 以 推 組 織 做 共 識 跟 也 跟 這 一 個 長 期 在 推 動 主 義 的 相 關 的 大 學 縣 校 跟 部 落 做 共 識 那 也 在 去 年 已 經 頒 布 初 步 共 設 的 版 本\n\n03:25.411 --> 03:41.933\n也 接 著 會 跟 1 6 個 已 推 組 織 做 協 調 討 論 , 預 計 在 年 底 會 提 出 比 較 完 整 的 共 識 版 。 目 前 已 經 提 出 了 一 個 參 考 版 , 也 透 過 各 已 推 的 相 關 齊 老 們 的 尊 重 各 族 群 的 書 寫 方 法 。\n\n03:42.585 --> 03:42.625\n委 員 好\n\n04:13.662 --> 04:35.634\n處 長 就 是 你 們 5 月 2 8 號 就 是 星 期 二 在 食 藥 署 有 針 對 這 個 各 族 群 傳 統 特 色 食 材 之 管 理 原 則 有 邀 集 相 關 單 位 開 這 個 溝 通 會 議 你 清 楚 這 個 是 吧 ? 了 解 你 們 誰 去 開 的 ? 我 們 是 陳 曼 同 仁 跟 我 們 相 關 科 員 跟 一 個 專 管 助 理\n\n04:38.479 --> 04:51.106\n實 要 署 會 開 溝 通 會 議 主 要 是 因 為 我 們 族 人 常 常 使 用 販 售 在 地 的 野 生 的 傳 統 食 材 雖 然 對 我 們 而 言 這 些 野 菜 我 們 都 常 見 這 些 對 我 們 來 說 其 實 是 傳 統 食 材 但 是 呢\n\n04:58.149 --> 05:24.233\n有 些 在 食 藥 署 的 這 個 食 品 原 料 整 合 查 詢 平 台 裡 面 是 完 全 查 不 到 了 那 因 為 查 不 到 所 以 就 被 列 為 這 個 非 傳 統 性 的 食 品 原 料 那 族 人 在 販 售 這 些 食 材 如 果 被 檢 舉 了 就 會 被 依 依 這 個 違 反 食 安 法 來 裁 罰 那 針 對 這 個 問 題 我 已 經 多 次 有 邀 集 這 個 請 這 個 食 藥 署 依 這 個 族 群 特 性 的 來 重 新 檢 討 相 關 規 定 那 前 天 呢\n\n05:24.753 --> 05:28.735\n委 員 會 提 供 給 食 藥 署 的 傳 統 飲 食 清 單 總 共 只 有 1 4 項 農 業 部 提 了 1 3 7 項 辦 公 室 有 詢 問 這 個 委 員 會 說 你 們 1 4 項 是 怎 麼 來 的 大 家 猜 猜 看 怎 麼 來\n\n05:44.414 --> 06:03.651\n我 聽 了 嚇 一 跳 啊 你 們 是 依 據 轉 型 正 義 委 員 會 的 清 單 挑 出 來 的 那 個 轉 型 正 義 委 員 會 那 邊 委 員 提 供 的 清 單 嗎 跟 委 員 報 告 一 下 因 為 轉 型 正 義 委 員 會 裡 面 也 在 關 心 這 個 事 情 那 剛 好 那 個 我 們 也 請 那 個 比 較 有 過 去 有 這 瞭 解 這 樣 一 個 委 員 對\n\n06:05.112 --> 06:29.162\n對 , 我 覺 得 你 們 這 樣 是 便 宜 行 事 耶 。 他 們 都 全 部 都 是 專 家 嗎 ? 全 部 的 這 個 委 員 都 是 齊 老 嗎 ? 都 是 很 有 經 驗 的 嗎 ? 人 家 送 名 單 給 你 們 之 後 , 你 們 有 主 動 再 去 調 查 其 他 各 個 族 群 嗎 ? 有 嗎 ? 我 們 後 續 會 主 動 調 查 。 就 是 後 續 才 , 人 家 已 經 要 開 這 個 會 , 人 家 動 作 都 很 快 , 結 果 你 們 就 只 拿 了 , 其 實 說\n\n06:30.632 --> 06:49.838\n拿 了 那 些 委 員 提 供 的 名 單 你 看 下 面 都 有 人 在 搖 頭 了 我 跟 委 員 報 告 我 們 現 在 有 盤 點 是 有 5 1 6 項 這 相 關 的 但 是 因 為 第 一 次 跟 食 藥 署 合 作 我 們 第 一 次 先 提 那 個 第 1 4 筆 可 以 讓 他 納 入 到 可 用 食 品 依 然 表 裡 面 去 做 所 以 這 個 合 作 模 式 建 立 起 來 我 們 後 續 會 陸 續 再 提 供\n\n06:52.287 --> 07:18.255\n我 想 是 這 樣 子 就 是 說 因 為 你 們 1 4 項 品 項 有 月 桃 老 藤 、 台 灣 胡 椒 、 山 肉 桂 等 等 但 是 阿 美 族 人 常 吃 的 這 個 芒 草 心 就 沒 有 所 以 就 是 說 到 底 有 多 少 品 項 已 經 有 在 這 個 食 品 原 料 整 合 查 詢 平 台 那 還 有 多 少 品 項 是 沒 有 那 我 是 覺 得 說 另 外 就 是 說 因 為 你 們 提 供 1 4 個 真 的 太 少\n\n07:19.336 --> 07:42.817\n醫 食 藥 署 規 定 非 傳 統 性 食 品 要 納 入 查 詢 平 台 可 以 做 問 卷 去 判 定 具 有 完 整 的 獨 理 學 的 安 全 性 學 術 文 獻 報 告 以 及 成 功 使 用 的 紀 錄 要 2 5 年 還 有 2 8 天 的 未 毒 性 試 驗 跟 基 因 毒 性 試 驗 還 有 9 0 天 的 未 毒 性 試 驗 跟 基 因 毒 性 試 驗 還 有 致 肌 試 驗\n\n07:44.318 --> 08:02.356\n除 此 之 外 , 我 們 沒 有 文 字 , 所 以 要 舉 證 這 個 長 久 有 實 用 的 這 些 歷 史 其 實 是 可 能 有 困 難 , 所 以 才 召 開 這 樣 子 的 會 議 。 也 就 希 望 說 各 族 群 可 以 提 供 相 關 意 見 。 所 以 你 們 那 個 唯 一 你 們 去 開 會 的 人 ,\n\n08:03.797 --> 08:29.932\n在 整 場 會 議 裡 面 唯 一 回 答 就 是 這 1 4 項 是 依 照 轉 型 正 義 委 員 會 那 邊 來 的 我 很 傻 眼 其 他 意 見 通 通 都 沒 有 反 應 反 而 與 會 的 其 他 人 士 就 提 出 很 多 的 問 題 所 以 我 就 提 醒 我 們 在 你 們 那 個 現 在 的 計 劃 原 住 民 族 傳 統 醫 療 知 識 復 正 計 劃 現 在 有 進 行 口 述 歷 史 的 收 集\n\n08:30.692 --> 08:49.708\n關 於 這 些 口 述 歷 史 的 收 集 除 了 作 為 記 錄 之 外 呢 其 實 應 該 有 一 些 是 對 我 們 這 個 原 住 民 傳 統 食 材 要 納 入 查 詢 平 台 是 有 幫 助 的 吧 應 該 是 有 吧 有 有 記 錄 一 些 我 們 現 在 一 些 長 者 過 去 的 一 些 傳 統 所 以 要 請 你 們 好 好 利 用 啊\n\n08:51.449 --> 09:11.743\n我 是 我 想 這 樣 子 希 望 你 們 可 以 設 定 目 標 值 啦 那 我 不 知 道 你 們 全 部 的 盤 點 你 們 大 概 多 久 可 以 盤 點 完 畢 盤 點 調 查 完 畢 目 前 先 掌 握 的 是 5 1 6 項 那 但 是 因 為 我 們 還 要 去 比 對 跟 那 個 那 個 可 用 視 頻 藍 表 裡 面 那 所 以 還 要 一 段 時 間 對 但 是 你 先 盤 點 我 講 的 是 盤 點 對 的 部 分 嗎 嗯\n\n09:15.962 --> 09:41.549\n所 以 還 要 一 段 時 間 。 我 們 在 一 個 月 先 做 完 整 個 盤 點 之 後 , 那 再 按 照 訂 定 目 標 值 之 後 再 分 批 陸 續 再 跟 食 藥 署 協 調 。 所 以 全 部 這 樣 子 , 你 預 計 時 間 , 你 是 要 設 定 目 標 值 啊 ? 對 , 我 會 設 定 目 標 值 。 那 我 先 盤 點 。 所 以 你 一 個 月 就 全 部 完 成 喔 ? 一 個 月 先 是 先 盤 點 , 那 確 認 之 後 我 們 再 去 訂 定 一 個 目 標 值 。\n\n09:42.233 --> 10:10.698\n好 , 如 果 這 個 評 估 完 可 以 直 接 納 入 平 台 是 最 好 如 果 真 的 沒 有 辦 法 需 要 經 過 這 個 我 剛 剛 講 的 那 些 測 試 的 話 我 想 就 是 說 我 們 再 來 協 調 各 部 會 像 農 業 部 啦 看 大 家 怎 麼 分 工 因 為 這 個 經 費 是 不 會 花 太 多 啦 那 我 是 希 望 你 們 一 定 要 優 先 把 這 個 品 項 確 認 好 那 請 你 們 要 再 主 動 積 極 特 別 去 跟 其 他 部 會 開 會 的 時 候 我 覺 得 處 長 你 要 不 要 考 慮 自 己 下 來 來 盯 這 個 案 子 好 , 謝 謝\n\n10:11.698 --> 10:11.718\n陳 瑩 委 員\n\n","segments":[{"start":13.793,"end":39.15,"text":"主席請坐我等一下再請他們上來剛才在這個有在場的政務官還有我們所有的公務人員們要請你們小心了因為剛剛竟然有立委質詢說沒有接電話叫藐視立委那沒有回電話也是叫做藐視立委我想這種事情拿到這裡來講實在是藐視國會啊"},{"start":41.972,"end":65.128,"text":"我認為要得到這個大家的尊重真的就是要從自身做起那讓大家從心裡面真正的來尊重你這才叫真正的尊重所以是不是未來我們在野黨是不是也要再提案就是未來如果沒有接到這個立委的電話又沒有回電話的話也要給他判刑也要給他抓去關也要給他罰款"},{"start":65.848,"end":66.949,"text":"請委員會董事長脈搏"},{"start":83.766,"end":87.027,"text":"主委的名字都有大寫。這個兩個,一個是"},{"start":110.459,"end":125.94,"text":"是家族姓氏是名字後面是我父親這個部分都有大寫所以很清楚我們可以看到報告人這個我們"},{"start":126.701,"end":145.277,"text":"的這個老處主委是的名字就是大寫那我想剛好其實這樣一個蠻好的案例我也想特別提醒一下因為在過去其實一樣主委在推動主語的時候我們花很多時間在做一個口語上的這個學習好包括"},{"start":146.939,"end":170.541,"text":"但是在書寫上就比較我比較沒有印象說有聽到說我們有在做這個部分啦考試啦教學啦就比較少那我們也很疑惑像我在美國求學我們寫論文的時候每一個段落那個英文字母都要大寫那講到人民或地名專有名詞的時候那個第一個字母也是要大寫"},{"start":172.002,"end":179.788,"text":"還有標點符號。所以我想請教主委說我們主語的部分你們是不是未來也針對書寫方式有一個統一的規則。"},{"start":185.316,"end":204.691,"text":"主席跟委員回復報告那基本上第一個是在去年我們已經跟我們相關的16個以推組織做共識跟也跟這一個長期在推動主義的相關的大學縣校跟部落做共識那也在去年已經頒布初步共設的版本"},{"start":205.411,"end":221.933,"text":"也接著會跟16個已推組織做協調討論,預計在年底會提出比較完整的共識版。目前已經提出了一個參考版,也透過各已推的相關齊老們的尊重各族群的書寫方法。"},{"start":222.585,"end":222.625,"text":"委員好"},{"start":253.662,"end":275.634,"text":"處長就是你們5月28號就是星期二在食藥署有針對這個各族群傳統特色食材之管理原則有邀集相關單位開這個溝通會議你清楚這個是吧?了解你們誰去開的?我們是陳曼同仁跟我們相關科員跟一個專管助理"},{"start":278.479,"end":291.106,"text":"實要署會開溝通會議主要是因為我們族人常常使用販售在地的野生的傳統食材雖然對我們而言這些野菜我們都常見這些對我們來說其實是傳統食材但是呢"},{"start":298.149,"end":324.233,"text":"有些在食藥署的這個食品原料整合查詢平台裡面是完全查不到了那因為查不到所以就被列為這個非傳統性的食品原料那族人在販售這些食材如果被檢舉了就會被依依這個違反食安法來裁罰那針對這個問題我已經多次有邀集這個請這個食藥署依這個族群特性的來重新檢討相關規定那前天呢"},{"start":324.753,"end":328.735,"text":"委員會提供給食藥署的傳統飲食清單總共只有14項農業部提了137項辦公室有詢問這個委員會說你們14項是怎麼來的大家猜猜看怎麼來"},{"start":344.414,"end":363.651,"text":"我聽了嚇一跳啊你們是依據轉型正義委員會的清單挑出來的那個轉型正義委員會那邊委員提供的清單嗎跟委員報告一下因為轉型正義委員會裡面也在關心這個事情那剛好那個我們也請那個比較有過去有這瞭解這樣一個委員對"},{"start":365.112,"end":389.162,"text":"對,我覺得你們這樣是便宜行事耶。他們都全部都是專家嗎?全部的這個委員都是齊老嗎?都是很有經驗的嗎?人家送名單給你們之後,你們有主動再去調查其他各個族群嗎?有嗎?我們後續會主動調查。就是後續才,人家已經要開這個會,人家動作都很快,結果你們就只拿了,其實說"},{"start":390.632,"end":409.838,"text":"拿了那些委員提供的名單你看下面都有人在搖頭了我跟委員報告我們現在有盤點是有516項這相關的但是因為第一次跟食藥署合作我們第一次先提那個第14筆可以讓他納入到可用食品依然表裡面去做所以這個合作模式建立起來我們後續會陸續再提供"},{"start":412.287,"end":438.255,"text":"我想是這樣子就是說因為你們14項品項有月桃老藤、台灣胡椒、山肉桂等等但是阿美族人常吃的這個芒草心就沒有所以就是說到底有多少品項已經有在這個食品原料整合查詢平台那還有多少品項是沒有那我是覺得說另外就是說因為你們提供14個真的太少"},{"start":439.336,"end":462.817,"text":"醫食藥署規定非傳統性食品要納入查詢平台可以做問卷去判定具有完整的獨理學的安全性學術文獻報告以及成功使用的紀錄要25年還有28天的未毒性試驗跟基因毒性試驗還有90天的未毒性試驗跟基因毒性試驗還有致肌試驗"},{"start":464.318,"end":482.356,"text":"除此之外,我們沒有文字,所以要舉證這個長久有實用的這些歷史其實是可能有困難,所以才召開這樣子的會議。也就希望說各族群可以提供相關意見。所以你們那個唯一你們去開會的人,"},{"start":483.797,"end":509.932,"text":"在整場會議裡面唯一回答就是這14項是依照轉型正義委員會那邊來的我很傻眼其他意見通通都沒有反應反而與會的其他人士就提出很多的問題所以我就提醒我們在你們那個現在的計劃原住民族傳統醫療知識復正計劃現在有進行口述歷史的收集"},{"start":510.692,"end":529.708,"text":"關於這些口述歷史的收集除了作為記錄之外呢其實應該有一些是對我們這個原住民傳統食材要納入查詢平台是有幫助的吧應該是有吧有有記錄一些我們現在一些長者過去的一些傳統所以要請你們好好利用啊"},{"start":531.449,"end":551.743,"text":"我是我想這樣子希望你們可以設定目標值啦那我不知道你們全部的盤點你們大概多久可以盤點完畢盤點調查完畢目前先掌握的是516項那但是因為我們還要去比對跟那個那個可用視頻藍表裡面那所以還要一段時間對但是你先盤點我講的是盤點對的部分嗎嗯"},{"start":555.962,"end":581.549,"text":"所以還要一段時間。我們在一個月先做完整個盤點之後,那再按照訂定目標值之後再分批陸續再跟食藥署協調。所以全部這樣子,你預計時間,你是要設定目標值啊?對,我會設定目標值。那我先盤點。所以你一個月就全部完成喔?一個月先是先盤點,那確認之後我們再去訂定一個目標值。"},{"start":582.233,"end":610.698,"text":"好,如果這個評估完可以直接納入平台是最好如果真的沒有辦法需要經過這個我剛剛講的那些測試的話我想就是說我們再來協調各部會像農業部啦看大家怎麼分工因為這個經費是不會花太多啦那我是希望你們一定要優先把這個品項確認好那請你們要再主動積極特別去跟其他部會開會的時候我覺得處長你要不要考慮自己下來來盯這個案子好,謝謝"},{"start":611.698,"end":611.718,"text":"陳瑩委員"}]}}}}