{"id":153431,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153431","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/63981a741ba438d0bbac2b1edbbfd25ae212215d61b9ffb20065a9431e9c0d57621313771590f4455ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"11:21:47 - 11:38:02","影片長度":"00:16:15","會議時間":"2024-05-31T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第16次會議（事由：一、行政院院長報告施政方針並備質詢。\n二、5月31日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、本次會議不處理臨時提案。）","date":"2024-05-31","start_time":"2024-05-31T11:21:47+08:00","end_time":"2024-05-31T11:38:02+08:00","duration":975,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第16次會議","id":"院會-11-1-16","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":16},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":613,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（11時21分）在我邀請卓院長之前，我想先跟韓院長作個報告，很抱歉，本席並沒有依照您那天所頒布的服裝儀容規定，我今天還是穿著我擅長也習慣的白色球鞋，我想有幾個理由，過去在教育文化委員會，我長期推動各級學校的服裝儀容要解禁，所以捍衛身體的自主權，我認為立法委員也是。第二個理由，吳思瑤作為臺灣臺北時裝週的催生者，臺灣的時尚就是最強大的國家軟實力，現在最流行的就是運動風，所以白球鞋、小白鞋是所有當代的女性最舒適，也能夠彰顯專業跟優雅的打扮。第三點，我也認為立法委員來國會問政，不是上高級的西餐廳用餐，尤其我是區域立委，我服務北投天母，我每天要勤跑基層，所以我必須穿球鞋。立委的工作是專業的問政、理性的監督，如果國會的議事運作沒有辦法正常化，大家穿的再優雅、再高貴，我想那都不是重點。所以三件事向院長報告，我也替多數的立法委員表達我們共同的立場，謝謝。","有請我們卓院長。"],["主席：有請卓院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：吳委員好。"],["吳委員思瑤：卓院長好，辛苦了，今天我的主題「行動創新AI內閣，有路，咱沿路唱歌；無路，咱蹽溪過嶺。」這首歌我們都能朗朗上口……"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["吳委員思瑤：這就是臺灣的處境，我們都在創造那一條康莊大道。但是今天一早中國又出招了、又出手了，中國再一次違反WTO以及ECFA的相關規範，片面的來宣布終止對臺灣ECFA134項的產品關稅減讓，當然最主要是石化業，也有少部分的紡織、機械、運輸工具等等。對於中國這樣再一次的以商逼政，我們行政院會表達不滿嗎？我們做的相關因應跟回應是什麼？就教於院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：任何對國家的人民跟產業有產生傷害、危急的時候，我們首先要做的是如何保護我們的人民跟產業，以及適時的向國際社會透過正常的管道，表達我們反對跟希望能夠更正的態度。我也希望國際任何組織的成員們，要能夠習慣，要能夠適應在國際組織裡的生活，不要隨便地去更改互動之間的規則，這樣才能在國際間取得衡平的地位。"],["吳委員思瑤：所以陸委會也應當會有清楚的聲明來表達我方的不滿及抗議，是嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們請陸委會邱主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝委員。有關這次中國大陸再次以貿易制裁的理由，說我們違反ECFA相關的事由，無理、片面的終止我方134項ECFA早收清單、關稅減讓，我們要在這裡表達強烈的抗議及不滿。我想相關的後果應該由陸方來承擔，這種對臺施壓、恐嚇的政治操作，只會扭曲兩岸經貿原本互利互惠的發展方向，阻礙兩岸在國際產業架構的分工模式，更讓兩岸的經貿漸行漸遠，脫鉤斷鏈，我想相關的責任應由陸方全部負擔。我們也呼籲陸方這種不符合WTO及ECFA的規範，雙方還是要透過協商，針對兩岸貿易的分歧，我們呼籲陸方應面對兩岸的現實，去除一些政治障礙，讓雙方務實溝通解決，這樣兩岸的經貿才是最有利的方法，謝謝。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，經濟部門呢？對於相關受創或受衝擊的產業，是不是做好萬全的推演跟準備？"],["郭部長智輝：是的，謝謝委員。經濟部這邊，我們會針對目前的狀況，跟實際受到傷害的業者，給予他們充分的溝通，然後協助他們轉移市場。"],["吳委員思瑤：快速啟動，好嗎？快速啟動，好嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：好的。"],["吳委員思瑤：謝謝幾位的答復，進入我今天的正題。國會在抗議聲中、憤怒聲中，通過了國會擴權的法案，我今天在這裡要告訴院長以及所有內閣團隊同仁，質詢絕對不是上對下，行政立法平起平坐，沒有誰藐視誰，而且最重要的是沒有討論，沒有民主。吳思瑤在這裡，我歡迎每一位官員對我反質詢，因為我認為如果我提出來的論述不夠精準、有所失誤，當然要糾正立法委員。而且我們看到歐美各國先進的國會，沒有單方面是上對下，只有聽國會議員滔滔不絕，然後一再的讓國會成為一言堂，只要求官員成為乖乖牌，讓官員都噤聲，如果這樣的話，政策沒有透過討論，沒有透過辯論，怎麼能夠讓政策最好的那一面能彰顯呢？","所以「沒有討論，不是民主」，不只適用在立法院各個議案的討論上，更適用在詢答之間。院長，你同意我的觀點嗎？我歡迎你對我反質詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝吳委員。跟委員報告，我也曾經站在你那個位置上，我現在很希望告訴所有的委員，當您站在那個位置上的時候，你要想想有一天委員也可能站在這裡，如果用這種同理心來進行答詢的話，那就是兩院良好的互動。"],["吳委員思瑤：而且更重要的是……"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，你的質詢內容，從過去到現在，我都拜讀且肯定，答復都沒時間，沒有時間反質詢。"],["吳委員思瑤：我今天給你非常多的時間，過去思瑤的質詢風格，我認為質詢是一個論述跟探討說服的過程，我最終都希望能夠透過我完整的論述，獲得行政部門同仁一個肯定的Yes！其實我認為那就是我最大的honor，也是我監督很高的一個滿意。","今天國際的正義之聲越來越多，國會擴權的法案通過之後，我們看這兩天，英國的金融時報也好，或是經濟學人，長期關心臺灣的民主發展，他們都對於臺灣國會失序、民主失靈的狀況提出非常多的示警；更重要的是，他們也都點破了背後的核心問題，關鍵問題就是這樣的擴權修法都是中國作為影舞者，為中國對臺滲透創造可趁之機，這是金融時報下的標。經濟學人也說，這樣的惡法通過之後，確實有高度的擔憂，臺灣的重要資訊可能出賣給中國，包括臺灣的民主制度。","您剛剛的報告也提到了，您之前在528當天快速的對外聲明，面對國會的擴權，行政院的覆議是為了捍衛憲法的精神、為了捍衛行政權，您可否具體再告訴我們，您認為哪些部分確實是窒礙難行，嚴重影響行政部門服務人民、貢獻臺灣，使您不得不提出覆議？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，剛剛第一篇外國媒體的報導，其實跟國內國人的憂慮滿相近的……"],["吳委員思瑤：是。"],["卓院長榮泰：所以剛剛我在報告過程當中也提出，國人對於審議的過程是不是符合程序正義？內容是不是有違反權力分立、侵害人民權益、違反法律明確性等等，我是在反映國人在這方面的疑慮。"],["吳委員思瑤：是。"],["卓院長榮泰：政府的責任就是在為國人的疑慮提出解決辦法，我也看到當天在國會內外的情形，所以我們認為憲法一旦賦予行政機關有這樣的權力，我們要再了解，等到大院來文之後，包括我，我們會請所有的公法學專家一一詳細審視法律條文的每一個字、每一個逗點、每一個內涵、每個字後面的意義，我們會很清楚地瞭解接下來行政機關、憲政機關該做什麼樣的決定，該有什麼樣的行為。"],["吳委員思瑤：我絕對相信行政部門會提出非常周全的覆議相關準備，我在這裡要提醒，其實這不只是政治動作的表態，對於憲法精神的捍衛，我也要把我的觀察跟你分享，這部惡法通過後，民氣可用，我觀察到包括國民黨多數……對不起，國民黨內部也有部分委員的立場在鬆動，他們感受到民意的力量；我也觀察到您昨天拜會了民眾黨團，他們對於覆議案的態度似乎也沒做最終的共同決定，所以我認為各個擊破是有機會的，我們要善用民氣可用和憲政賦予的至高無上權力，我期待未來提出覆議之後能夠達到我們想要的結果，我們一起來努力。","這次我作為民進黨團國會改革小組召集人，但非常可惜，不只程序正義被沒收了，更重要的是民主審查完全被閹割，民進黨的不管是立法院職權行使法、立法院議事規則、立法院組織法，乃至於立法委員行為法，沒有半個案子能夠被併案審查，這當中民進黨版負責提出的都符合憲法的精神，民進黨版的立法院職權行使法同樣入法，規範了國會擁有調查權、委員會擁有調閱小組的權限；民進黨版議事規則裡都可以強化國家機密的保護、守護國家安全；在民進黨版的國會真改革議案中，能夠從立法院的組織改造下手，成立立法院的資通安全處，保護國家議會問政的資訊安全，乃至於立法院要讓法制局和預算中心的幕僚能量可以提升，就是讓國會有正向問政專業可以彰顯，當然包括立法委員行為法，對於「# Me Too」法案、對於洩密都應當有自律相關的權責相符。所以民進黨對於國會改革方向絕對非常清楚，國會改革不是自我對於國會議員權限的無限擴張，而是建立一個權責相符，國會有權就要有責，只是非常可惜，我們的議案至今仍被丟包、仍被封殺，也懇請韓院長應當召集協商，就民進黨版的國會真改革的議案能夠重見天日，來踐行程序正義以及民主審查的國會精神。","我跟您提醒幾個不可不慎的法案，提醒您還有所有行政團隊預作示警跟準備。包括在野黨團聯手推出的四大類行政團隊不可不慎的法案，第一類，親中法案；第二類，違憲法案；第三類，錢坑法案；第四類，亂政的法案。","親中法案，可能會提出反滲透法的修正，包括國安五法的修正，這兩部分目前還沒有提案；但是中配入籍的年限從六年減為四年的修正案，已經排入議程、正待審查。","第二部分，違憲的法案，就如同我們的國會擴權法案不幸的通過了；還包括NCC的組織法，要違反憲法的授權，要改為政黨比例代表來推派委員；包括要提出監察院的組織法，又把手伸到監察院去，這一類都是違憲的法案。","再來，錢坑法案，當然就是三大花東建設還有環島高鐵的法案，這都可能讓國家的財政受到很大的傷害。","第四類，亂政的法案，就如反年金改革的法案，可能讓我們年金改革付之一簣；電業法讓電價的調升或調降，要經立院通過，讓能源政策淪為政治的議題，而不是專業的導向；財劃法已經要在下週審議，要把中央財政的餅在毫無明確的規範之下，就要讓地方全拿；當然也包括全民健保法，我們的健保會不會因此而承受很大的財源問題？還有我們的核子反應器設施延役條例。","時間不夠，我提醒大家有這四大類的法案，所有行政團隊都要竭盡一切的努力，言所當言，為所當為，努力溝通，不能通過的絕不能放手；無法通過的，危害國家利益的，我們絕對會捍衛到底……"],["主席：謝謝……"],["吳委員思瑤：是不是把我為你整理的這四大類，大家好好預作模擬、預作準備，好嗎？"],["主席：謝謝……"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，我們團隊心中只有福國利民的法案，其他法案我們會捍衛人民的權利。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，謝謝院長。"],["主席：謝謝吳思瑤委員，謝謝卓院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第2位傅崐萁委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":27,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-16","speakers":["韓國瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-05-31"],"gazette_id":"1135101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第16次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1135101_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"153431","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153431","tool":"pyannote","id":"153431-pyannote"},"job_id":"xGZeGXOEoGoQipqS","queued_at":"2024-05-31 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406.544, \"end\": 406.564, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}]}, {\"start\": 424.005, \"end\": 447.204, \"text\": \"我現在很希望告訴所有的委員當您站在那個位置上的時候您要想想有一天委員也可能站在這裡如果用這種同理心來進行答詢的話那就是兩院互動的良好而且跟委員報告你的質詢內容從過去到現在我都拜讀肯定過答覆都沒時間沒有時間反質詢\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 424.005, \"end\": 424.305, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 424.305, \"end\": 424.966, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 424.966, \"end\": 425.166, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 425.166, \"end\": 425.286, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 425.286, \"end\": 425.466, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 425.466, \"end\": 425.826, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"訴\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 425.826, \"end\": 425.927, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 425.927, \"end\": 425.987, \"score\": 0.668}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 425.987, \"end\": 426.107, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 426.107, \"end\": 427.067, 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{\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 873.259, \"end\": 873.5, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"花\", \"start\": 873.5, \"end\": 873.98, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 873.98, \"end\": 874.501, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 874.501, \"end\": 875.141, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"環\"}, {\"word\": \"島\"}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 875.141, \"end\": 875.502, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"鐵\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 875.502, \"end\": 875.642, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 875.642, \"end\": 875.742, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 875.742, \"end\": 875.762, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"﹚\"}, {\"word\": \"吳\"}, {\"word\": \"思\", \"start\": 876.042, \"end\": 876.062, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"瑤\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"吳\"}, {\"word\": \"思\", \"start\": 951.363, \"end\": 951.423, \"score\": 0.65}, {\"word\": \"瑤\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 951.423, \"end\": 951.583, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"左\", \"start\": 951.583, \"end\": 957.467, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 957.467, \"end\": 957.547, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 957.547, \"end\": 957.567, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,489 --> 00:00:29,230\n在我邀請卓院長之前我想先跟韓院長做個報告很抱歉本席並沒有依照您那天所頒布的服裝儀容的規定我今天還是穿著我擅長也習慣的白色球鞋我想有幾個理由我過去在教育文化委員會我長期推動各級學校的服裝儀容要解禁所以捍衛身體的自主權我認為立法委員也是\n\n2\n00:00:30,168 --> 00:00:55,178\n第二個理由吳思瑤作為臺灣臺北時裝周的催生者臺灣的時尚就是最強大的國家軟實力現在最流行的就是運動風所以白球鞋小白鞋是所有當代的女性最舒適也能夠彰顯專業跟優雅的打扮第三點\n\n3\n00:00:58,018 --> 00:01:13,979\n我也認為立法委員來國會問政不是上高級的西餐廳用餐尤其我是區域立委我服務北投天母我每天要請跑基層所以我必須穿球鞋\n\n4\n00:01:14,997 --> 00:01:40,293\n立委的工作是專業的問政、理性的監督如果國會的議事運作沒有辦法正常化大家穿得再優雅、再高貴我想那都不是重點所以三件事向院長報告我也替多數的立法委員表達我們共同的立場謝謝有請我們卓院長有請卓院長\n\n5\n00:01:51,702 --> 00:02:07,141\n吳委員好委員長好辛苦了今天我的主題行動創新AI內閣有路咱就沿路唱歌沒路咱聊天過夜這首歌我們都能朗朗上口\n\n6\n00:02:08,178 --> 00:02:28,235\n這就是臺灣的處境,我們都在創造那一條康莊大道。但是今天一早中國又出招了,又出手了。中國再一次違反WTO以及ECFA的相關規範,那片面的來宣布終止對臺灣ECFA134項的產品關稅減讓。\n\n7\n00:02:32,899 --> 00:02:58,483\n當然最主要是石化業當然也有少部分的紡織機械運輸工具等等對於中國這樣再一次的以商逼政那我們行政院會表達不滿嗎我們做的相關的因應跟回應是什麼就教於院長任何對國家的人民跟產業有產生傷害\n\n8\n00:03:00,353 --> 00:03:27,504\n我們首先要做的是如何保護我們的人民跟產業以及適時的向國際社會透過正常的管道表達我們反對跟希望能夠更正的態度我也希望國際任何組織的任何成員們要能夠習慣要能夠適應在國際組織裡的生活不要隨便的去更改互動之間的規則這樣才能在國際間取得橫平的地位\n\n9\n00:03:28,243 --> 00:03:37,437\n所以應當是陸委會也應當會有清楚的聲明來表達我方的不滿及抗議嗎是嗎我們請陸委會是謝謝委員有關於這次中國大陸\n\n10\n00:03:42,645 --> 00:04:09,958\n再次以這個貿易制裁的理由違反ECFA說我們違反ECFA的相關的事由無理片面的宗旨我方134項ECFA找收清單關稅減占我們要在這裡表達強烈的抗議及不滿我想相關的後果應該由陸方來承擔\n\n11\n00:04:12,369 --> 00:04:24,220\n我想這種對臺施壓恐嚇的政治操作只會扭曲兩岸經貿原本互利互惠的發展方向阻礙兩岸在國際產業分工架構的\n\n12\n00:04:27,483 --> 00:04:27,503\n好。\n\n13\n00:04:48,827 --> 00:05:10,776\n針對兩岸貿易的分歧,我們呼籲陸方應面對兩岸的現實,去除一些政治障礙,讓雙方務實溝通解決。這樣兩岸的經貿才是最有利的方法。經濟部門對於相關受創或受衝擊的產業是不是做好萬全的推演跟準備?\n\n14\n00:05:11,656 --> 00:05:33,109\n是的,謝謝委員。在經濟部這邊呢,我想我們會針對目前的這個狀況,那麼跟這個實際受到傷害的業者,可以他們充分的溝通,然後協助他們轉移市場。快速啟動好嗎?快速啟動好嗎?謝謝幾位的答覆。那進入我今天的政題喔,來下一頁。\n\n15\n00:05:35,284 --> 00:06:02,213\n國會剛完成了這個讓在抗議聲中在憤怒聲中通過了這個國會擴權的法案我今天在這裡呢要告訴院長以及所有的內閣團隊同仁質詢絕對不是上對下行政立法憑起憑坐沒有誰藐視誰而且最重要的是沒有討論沒有民主\n\n16\n00:06:03,431 --> 00:06:16,960\n吳思瑤在這裡我歡迎每一位官員對我反質詢因為我認為如果我提出來的論述不夠精準有所失誤當然要糾正立法委員\n\n17\n00:06:18,086 --> 00:06:43,181\n而且我們看到歐美各國先進的國會沒有單方面是上對下只有聽國會議員滔滔不絕然後一再的讓國會成為一言堂只要求官員成為乖乖牌官員都噤聲如果這樣的話政策沒有透過討論沒有透過辯論怎麼能夠讓政策最好的那一面能彰顯呢\n\n18\n00:06:44,602 --> 00:06:46,564\n謝謝吳委員跟委員報告。我也曾經站在你那個位置上。\n\n19\n00:07:04,005 --> 00:07:27,204\n我現在很希望告訴所有的委員當您站在那個位置上的時候您要想想有一天委員也可能站在這裡如果用這種同理心來進行答詢的話那就是兩院互動的良好而且跟委員報告你的質詢內容從過去到現在我都拜讀肯定過答覆都沒時間沒有時間反質詢\n\n20\n00:07:29,397 --> 00:07:52,381\n我今天給你非常多的時間我過去思瑤的質詢風格我認為質詢是一個論述跟探討跟說服的過程我最終都希望能夠透過我完整的論述獲得行政部門的同仁一個肯定的yes其實我認為那就是我最大的honor也是我監督最高的一個很高的一個滿意那今天我們來看下一頁\n\n21\n00:07:53,836 --> 00:08:16,383\n國際的正義之聲越來越多,國會擴權的法案通過之後,我們看這兩天,英國的金融時報也好或是經濟學人,其實長期關心臺灣的民主發展,他們都發出對於臺灣這種國會失序跟民主失靈的狀況提出非常多的示警,更重要的是也都點破了一個背後的核心問題。\n\n22\n00:08:18,223 --> 00:08:45,588\n關鍵的問題就是這樣子的擴權修法都是中國作為贏無者為中國對台滲透來創造出可乘之機這是金融時報下的標經濟學人也說這樣的惡法通過之後確實有高度的擔憂就是臺灣重要的資訊可能出賣給中國的包括臺灣的民主制度下一頁\n\n23\n00:08:46,548 --> 00:09:02,929\n所以您剛剛的報告也提到包括您之前在528當天您快速的來對外聲明面對國會的擴權行政院的復議是為了捍衛憲法的精神為了捍衛行政權\n\n24\n00:09:04,170 --> 00:09:18,453\n那您可不可以具體的再告訴我們您認為哪些部分確實是至愛難行會嚴重影響行政部門來服務人民貢獻臺灣您不得不提出復議跟委員報告\n\n25\n00:09:20,216 --> 00:09:41,821\n剛剛第一篇外國媒體的報導其實跟國內的國人的憂慮是蠻相近的所以剛剛我在報告的過程當中我也提出國人對於審議的過程是不是符合程序正義內容是不是有違反權利分立那麼侵害人民權益違反法律明確性等等\n\n26\n00:09:43,069 --> 00:10:06,807\n我是在反映國人在這方面的疑慮政府的責任就在為國人的疑慮提出解決的辦法我也看到當天在國會內外的那種情形所以我們認為憲法一旦賦予行政機關有這樣的行政機關的權利那我們要再瞭解就是等到大院來文之後\n\n27\n00:10:08,100 --> 00:10:35,013\n包括我我們會請所有的這個公法學專家一一詳細的審視所有的法律的條文的每一個字每一個鬥點每一個內涵每一個後面的意義我們會很清楚的來決定接下來行政機關憲政機關該做什麼樣的決定該有什麼樣的行為我絕對相信行政部門會提出非常周全的復議相關的準備我在這裡要提出提醒\n\n28\n00:10:35,618 --> 00:10:57,511\n其實不只是這是一個政治動作的表態對於憲法精神的捍衛其實我也要把我所觀察跟您分享在這一步惡法通過之後那名氣可用其實我觀察到包括國民黨的多數對不起國民黨的內部也有部分委員立場在鬆動他們感受到民意的力量\n\n29\n00:10:58,251 --> 00:11:24,892\n我也觀察到包括昨天您拜會了民眾黨團對於復議案的態度他們似乎也還沒有做最終的共同決定所以我認為各個急迫是有機會的我們要善用名氣可用跟所謂的憲政賦予的這個至高無上的權力我期待我們未來再提出復議之後能夠達到我們想要的結果我們一起來努力好下一頁\n\n30\n00:11:26,415 --> 00:11:49,587\n這一次我作為民進黨團的國會改革小組的召集人但非常可惜不只程序正義被沒收了更重要的是民主審查完全被閹割而民進黨的不管是立法院職權行使法、立法院議事規則、立法院組織法乃至於立法委員行為法沒有半個案子能夠被並案審查\n\n31\n00:11:50,347 --> 00:12:00,838\n我想這當中民進黨版所負責提出來的都符合憲法的精神民進黨的立法院職權行事法同樣入法規範了國會擁有調查權委員會擁有調閱小組的權限在民進黨版的議事規則裡頭都可以強化國家機密的保護守護國家安全\n\n32\n00:12:11,388 --> 00:12:39,856\n在民進黨版的國會徵改革的議案當中我們能夠從立法院的組織來改造下手來成立立法院的資通安全處來防保護國家議會問政的資訊安全乃至於立法院要讓我們的法治局跟預算中心的幕僚能量可以提升就是讓國會有正向的問政專業可以彰顯當然包括立法委員行為法對於metoo法案對於泄密\n\n33\n00:12:40,416 --> 00:13:01,481\n都應當有自律的相關的權責相符所以民進黨對於國會改革的方向絕對是非常清楚國會改革不是自我對於國會議員的權限的無限擴張而是建立一個權責相符國會有權就要有責\n\n34\n00:13:02,441 --> 00:13:24,841\n只是非常可惜我們的議案至今仍被丟包、仍被封殺也懇請韓院長應當召集協商就民進黨版的國會真改革的議案能夠重建天日來踐行程序正義以及民主審查的國會精神好下一頁再下一頁\n\n35\n00:13:26,035 --> 00:13:55,290\n在下一頁因為時間拖了比較多好在下一頁我跟您提醒不可不慎的幾個法案我只能給您幾個還有所有行政團隊一些預作示警跟準備包括在野黨團聯手推出的四大類行政團隊不可不慎的法案就是第一類親中法案第二類違憲法案第三類錢坑法案第四類亂政的法案下一頁\n\n36\n00:13:56,526 --> 00:14:13,039\n親中法案就包括可能會提出的反滲透法的修正包括國安無法的修正這兩部分目前還沒有提案但是中配入籍的年限6年減為4年的修正案是已經排入議程正待審查\n\n37\n00:14:13,900 --> 00:14:35,762\n第二部分違憲的法案就如同我們的國會擴權法案不幸的通過了還包括NCC的組織法要違反憲法的授權要改為政黨比例代表來推派委員包括要提出監察院的組織法又把手伸到監察院去這一類都是違憲的法案再來乾坑法案當然是三大花東建設還有環島高鐵的法案\n\n38\n00:14:36,042 --> 00:14:36,062\n﹚吳思瑤\n\n39\n00:15:51,363 --> 00:15:57,567\n謝謝謝謝吳思瑤委員、謝謝左院長的備詢。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2489\t29230\t在我邀請卓院長之前我想先跟韓院長做個報告很抱歉本席並沒有依照您那天所頒布的服裝儀容的規定我今天還是穿著我擅長也習慣的白色球鞋我想有幾個理由我過去在教育文化委員會我長期推動各級學校的服裝儀容要解禁所以捍衛身體的自主權我認為立法委員也是\n30168\t55178\t第二個理由吳思瑤作為臺灣臺北時裝周的催生者臺灣的時尚就是最強大的國家軟實力現在最流行的就是運動風所以白球鞋小白鞋是所有當代的女性最舒適也能夠彰顯專業跟優雅的打扮第三點\n58018\t73979\t我也認為立法委員來國會問政不是上高級的西餐廳用餐尤其我是區域立委我服務北投天母我每天要請跑基層所以我必須穿球鞋\n74997\t100293\t立委的工作是專業的問政、理性的監督如果國會的議事運作沒有辦法正常化大家穿得再優雅、再高貴我想那都不是重點所以三件事向院長報告我也替多數的立法委員表達我們共同的立場謝謝有請我們卓院長有請卓院長\n111702\t127141\t吳委員好 委員長好 辛苦了今天我的主題行動創新AI內閣 有路咱就沿路唱歌 沒路咱聊天過夜 這首歌我們都能朗朗上口\n128178\t148235\t這就是臺灣的處境,我們都在創造那一條康莊大道。但是今天一早中國又出招了,又出手了。中國再一次違反WTO以及ECFA的相關規範,那片面的來宣布終止對臺灣ECFA134項的產品關稅減讓。\n152899\t178483\t當然最主要是石化業當然也有少部分的紡織機械運輸工具等等對於中國這樣再一次的以商逼政那我們行政院會表達不滿嗎我們做的相關的因應跟回應是什麼就教於院長任何對國家的人民跟產業有產生傷害\n180353\t207504\t我們首先要做的是如何保護我們的人民跟產業以及適時的向國際社會透過正常的管道表達我們反對跟希望能夠更正的態度我也希望國際任何組織的任何成員們要能夠習慣要能夠適應在國際組織裡的生活不要隨便的去更改互動之間的規則這樣才能在國際間取得橫平的地位\n208243\t217437\t所以應當是陸委會也應當會有清楚的聲明來表達我方的不滿及抗議嗎是嗎我們請陸委會是謝謝委員有關於這次中國大陸\n222645\t249958\t再次以這個貿易制裁的理由違反ECFA說我們違反ECFA的相關的事由無理片面的宗旨我方134項ECFA找收清單關稅減占我們要在這裡表達強烈的抗議及不滿我想相關的後果應該由陸方來承擔\n252369\t264220\t我想這種對臺施壓恐嚇的政治操作只會扭曲兩岸經貿原本互利互惠的發展方向阻礙兩岸在國際產業分工架構的\n267483\t267503\t好。\n288827\t310776\t針對兩岸貿易的分歧,我們呼籲陸方應面對兩岸的現實,去除一些政治障礙,讓雙方務實溝通解決。這樣兩岸的經貿才是最有利的方法。經濟部門對於相關受創或受衝擊的產業是不是做好萬全的推演跟準備?\n311656\t333109\t是的,謝謝委員。在經濟部這邊呢,我想我們會針對目前的這個狀況,那麼跟這個實際受到傷害的業者,可以他們充分的溝通,然後協助他們轉移市場。快速啟動好嗎?快速啟動好嗎?謝謝幾位的答覆。那進入我今天的政題喔,來下一頁。\n335284\t362213\t國會剛完成了這個讓在抗議聲中在憤怒聲中通過了這個國會擴權的法案我今天在這裡呢要告訴院長以及所有的內閣團隊同仁質詢絕對不是上對下行政立法憑起憑坐沒有誰藐視誰而且最重要的是沒有討論沒有民主\n363431\t376960\t吳思瑤在這裡我歡迎每一位官員對我反質詢因為我認為如果我提出來的論述不夠精準有所失誤當然要糾正立法委員\n378086\t403181\t而且我們看到歐美各國先進的國會沒有單方面是上對下只有聽國會議員滔滔不絕然後一再的讓國會成為一言堂只要求官員成為乖乖牌官員都噤聲如果這樣的話政策沒有透過討論沒有透過辯論怎麼能夠讓政策最好的那一面能彰顯呢\n404602\t406564\t謝謝吳委員跟委員報告。我也曾經站在你那個位置上。\n424005\t447204\t我現在很希望告訴所有的委員當您站在那個位置上的時候您要想想有一天委員也可能站在這裡如果用這種同理心來進行答詢的話那就是兩院互動的良好而且跟委員報告你的質詢內容從過去到現在我都拜讀肯定過答覆都沒時間沒有時間反質詢\n449397\t472381\t我今天給你非常多的時間我過去思瑤的質詢風格我認為質詢是一個論述跟探討跟說服的過程我最終都希望能夠透過我完整的論述獲得行政部門的同仁一個肯定的yes其實我認為那就是我最大的honor也是我監督最高的一個很高的一個滿意那今天我們來看下一頁\n473836\t496383\t國際的正義之聲越來越多,國會擴權的法案通過之後,我們看這兩天,英國的金融時報也好或是經濟學人,其實長期關心臺灣的民主發展,他們都發出對於臺灣這種國會失序跟民主失靈的狀況提出非常多的示警,更重要的是也都點破了一個背後的核心問題。\n498223\t525588\t關鍵的問題就是這樣子的擴權修法都是中國作為贏無者為中國對台滲透來創造出可乘之機這是金融時報下的標經濟學人也說這樣的惡法通過之後確實有高度的擔憂就是臺灣重要的資訊可能出賣給中國的包括臺灣的民主制度下一頁\n526548\t542929\t所以您剛剛的報告也提到包括您之前在528當天您快速的來對外聲明面對國會的擴權行政院的復議是為了捍衛憲法的精神為了捍衛行政權\n544170\t558453\t那您可不可以具體的再告訴我們您認為哪些部分確實是至愛難行會嚴重影響行政部門來服務人民貢獻臺灣您不得不提出復議跟委員報告\n560216\t581821\t剛剛第一篇外國媒體的報導其實跟國內的國人的憂慮是蠻相近的所以剛剛我在報告的過程當中我也提出國人對於審議的過程是不是符合程序正義內容是不是有違反權利分立那麼侵害人民權益違反法律明確性等等\n583069\t606807\t我是在反映國人在這方面的疑慮政府的責任就在為國人的疑慮提出解決的辦法我也看到當天在國會內外的那種情形所以我們認為憲法一旦賦予行政機關有這樣的行政機關的權利那我們要再瞭解就是等到大院來文之後\n608100\t635013\t包括我我們會請所有的這個公法學專家一一詳細的審視所有的法律的條文的每一個字每一個鬥點每一個內涵每一個後面的意義我們會很清楚的來決定接下來行政機關憲政機關該做什麼樣的決定該有什麼樣的行為我絕對相信行政部門會提出非常周全的復議相關的準備我在這裡要提出提醒\n635618\t657511\t其實不只是這是一個政治動作的表態對於憲法精神的捍衛其實我也要把我所觀察跟您分享在這一步惡法通過之後那名氣可用其實我觀察到包括國民黨的多數對不起國民黨的內部也有部分委員立場在鬆動他們感受到民意的力量\n658251\t684892\t我也觀察到包括昨天您拜會了民眾黨團對於復議案的態度他們似乎也還沒有做最終的共同決定所以我認為各個急迫是有機會的我們要善用名氣可用跟所謂的憲政賦予的這個至高無上的權力我期待我們未來再提出復議之後能夠達到我們想要的結果我們一起來努力好下一頁\n686415\t709587\t這一次我作為民進黨團的國會改革小組的召集人但非常可惜不只程序正義被沒收了更重要的是民主審查完全被閹割而民進黨的不管是立法院職權行使法、立法院議事規則、立法院組織法乃至於立法委員行為法沒有半個案子能夠被並案審查\n710347\t720838\t我想這當中民進黨版所負責提出來的都符合憲法的精神民進黨的立法院職權行事法同樣入法規範了國會擁有調查權委員會擁有調閱小組的權限在民進黨版的議事規則裡頭都可以強化國家機密的保護守護國家安全\n731388\t759856\t在民進黨版的國會徵改革的議案當中我們能夠從立法院的組織來改造下手來成立立法院的資通安全處來防保護國家議會問政的資訊安全乃至於立法院要讓我們的法治局跟預算中心的幕僚能量可以提升就是讓國會有正向的問政專業可以彰顯當然包括立法委員行為法對於metoo法案對於泄密\n760416\t781481\t都應當有自律的相關的權責相符所以民進黨對於國會改革的方向絕對是非常清楚國會改革不是自我對於國會議員的權限的無限擴張而是建立一個權責相符國會有權就要有責\n782441\t804841\t只是非常可惜我們的議案至今仍被丟包、仍被封殺也懇請韓院長應當召集協商就民進黨版的國會真改革的議案能夠重建天日來踐行程序正義以及民主審查的國會精神好下一頁再下一頁\n806035\t835290\t在下一頁因為時間拖了比較多好在下一頁我跟您提醒不可不慎的幾個法案我只能給您幾個還有所有行政團隊一些預作示警跟準備包括在野黨團聯手推出的四大類行政團隊不可不慎的法案就是第一類親中法案第二類違憲法案第三類錢坑法案第四類亂政的法案下一頁\n836526\t853039\t親中法案就包括可能會提出的反滲透法的修正包括國安無法的修正這兩部分目前還沒有提案但是中配入籍的年限6年減為4年的修正案是已經排入議程正待審查\n853900\t875762\t第二部分違憲的法案就如同我們的國會擴權法案不幸的通過了還包括NCC的組織法要違反憲法的授權要改為政黨比例代表來推派委員包括要提出監察院的組織法又把手伸到監察院去這一類都是違憲的法案再來乾坑法案當然是三大花東建設還有環島高鐵的法案\n876042\t876062\t﹚吳思瑤\n905862\t929053\t﹏﹏\n951363\t957567\t謝謝謝謝吳思瑤委員、謝謝左院長的備詢。\n","txt":"在我邀請卓院長之前我想先跟韓院長做個報告很抱歉本席並沒有依照您那天所頒布的服裝儀容的規定我今天還是穿著我擅長也習慣的白色球鞋我想有幾個理由我過去在教育文化委員會我長期推動各級學校的服裝儀容要解禁所以捍衛身體的自主權我認為立法委員也是\n第二個理由吳思瑤作為臺灣臺北時裝周的催生者臺灣的時尚就是最強大的國家軟實力現在最流行的就是運動風所以白球鞋小白鞋是所有當代的女性最舒適也能夠彰顯專業跟優雅的打扮第三點\n我也認為立法委員來國會問政不是上高級的西餐廳用餐尤其我是區域立委我服務北投天母我每天要請跑基層所以我必須穿球鞋\n立委的工作是專業的問政、理性的監督如果國會的議事運作沒有辦法正常化大家穿得再優雅、再高貴我想那都不是重點所以三件事向院長報告我也替多數的立法委員表達我們共同的立場謝謝有請我們卓院長有請卓院長\n吳委員好 委員長好 辛苦了今天我的主題行動創新AI內閣 有路咱就沿路唱歌 沒路咱聊天過夜 這首歌我們都能朗朗上口\n這就是臺灣的處境,我們都在創造那一條康莊大道。但是今天一早中國又出招了,又出手了。中國再一次違反WTO以及ECFA的相關規範,那片面的來宣布終止對臺灣ECFA134項的產品關稅減讓。\n當然最主要是石化業當然也有少部分的紡織機械運輸工具等等對於中國這樣再一次的以商逼政那我們行政院會表達不滿嗎我們做的相關的因應跟回應是什麼就教於院長任何對國家的人民跟產業有產生傷害\n我們首先要做的是如何保護我們的人民跟產業以及適時的向國際社會透過正常的管道表達我們反對跟希望能夠更正的態度我也希望國際任何組織的任何成員們要能夠習慣要能夠適應在國際組織裡的生活不要隨便的去更改互動之間的規則這樣才能在國際間取得橫平的地位\n所以應當是陸委會也應當會有清楚的聲明來表達我方的不滿及抗議嗎是嗎我們請陸委會是謝謝委員有關於這次中國大陸\n再次以這個貿易制裁的理由違反ECFA說我們違反ECFA的相關的事由無理片面的宗旨我方134項ECFA找收清單關稅減占我們要在這裡表達強烈的抗議及不滿我想相關的後果應該由陸方來承擔\n我想這種對臺施壓恐嚇的政治操作只會扭曲兩岸經貿原本互利互惠的發展方向阻礙兩岸在國際產業分工架構的\n好。\n針對兩岸貿易的分歧,我們呼籲陸方應面對兩岸的現實,去除一些政治障礙,讓雙方務實溝通解決。這樣兩岸的經貿才是最有利的方法。經濟部門對於相關受創或受衝擊的產業是不是做好萬全的推演跟準備?\n是的,謝謝委員。在經濟部這邊呢,我想我們會針對目前的這個狀況,那麼跟這個實際受到傷害的業者,可以他們充分的溝通,然後協助他們轉移市場。快速啟動好嗎?快速啟動好嗎?謝謝幾位的答覆。那進入我今天的政題喔,來下一頁。\n國會剛完成了這個讓在抗議聲中在憤怒聲中通過了這個國會擴權的法案我今天在這裡呢要告訴院長以及所有的內閣團隊同仁質詢絕對不是上對下行政立法憑起憑坐沒有誰藐視誰而且最重要的是沒有討論沒有民主\n吳思瑤在這裡我歡迎每一位官員對我反質詢因為我認為如果我提出來的論述不夠精準有所失誤當然要糾正立法委員\n而且我們看到歐美各國先進的國會沒有單方面是上對下只有聽國會議員滔滔不絕然後一再的讓國會成為一言堂只要求官員成為乖乖牌官員都噤聲如果這樣的話政策沒有透過討論沒有透過辯論怎麼能夠讓政策最好的那一面能彰顯呢\n謝謝吳委員跟委員報告。我也曾經站在你那個位置上。\n我現在很希望告訴所有的委員當您站在那個位置上的時候您要想想有一天委員也可能站在這裡如果用這種同理心來進行答詢的話那就是兩院互動的良好而且跟委員報告你的質詢內容從過去到現在我都拜讀肯定過答覆都沒時間沒有時間反質詢\n我今天給你非常多的時間我過去思瑤的質詢風格我認為質詢是一個論述跟探討跟說服的過程我最終都希望能夠透過我完整的論述獲得行政部門的同仁一個肯定的yes其實我認為那就是我最大的honor也是我監督最高的一個很高的一個滿意那今天我們來看下一頁\n國際的正義之聲越來越多,國會擴權的法案通過之後,我們看這兩天,英國的金融時報也好或是經濟學人,其實長期關心臺灣的民主發展,他們都發出對於臺灣這種國會失序跟民主失靈的狀況提出非常多的示警,更重要的是也都點破了一個背後的核心問題。\n關鍵的問題就是這樣子的擴權修法都是中國作為贏無者為中國對台滲透來創造出可乘之機這是金融時報下的標經濟學人也說這樣的惡法通過之後確實有高度的擔憂就是臺灣重要的資訊可能出賣給中國的包括臺灣的民主制度下一頁\n所以您剛剛的報告也提到包括您之前在528當天您快速的來對外聲明面對國會的擴權行政院的復議是為了捍衛憲法的精神為了捍衛行政權\n那您可不可以具體的再告訴我們您認為哪些部分確實是至愛難行會嚴重影響行政部門來服務人民貢獻臺灣您不得不提出復議跟委員報告\n剛剛第一篇外國媒體的報導其實跟國內的國人的憂慮是蠻相近的所以剛剛我在報告的過程當中我也提出國人對於審議的過程是不是符合程序正義內容是不是有違反權利分立那麼侵害人民權益違反法律明確性等等\n我是在反映國人在這方面的疑慮政府的責任就在為國人的疑慮提出解決的辦法我也看到當天在國會內外的那種情形所以我們認為憲法一旦賦予行政機關有這樣的行政機關的權利那我們要再瞭解就是等到大院來文之後\n包括我我們會請所有的這個公法學專家一一詳細的審視所有的法律的條文的每一個字每一個鬥點每一個內涵每一個後面的意義我們會很清楚的來決定接下來行政機關憲政機關該做什麼樣的決定該有什麼樣的行為我絕對相信行政部門會提出非常周全的復議相關的準備我在這裡要提出提醒\n其實不只是這是一個政治動作的表態對於憲法精神的捍衛其實我也要把我所觀察跟您分享在這一步惡法通過之後那名氣可用其實我觀察到包括國民黨的多數對不起國民黨的內部也有部分委員立場在鬆動他們感受到民意的力量\n我也觀察到包括昨天您拜會了民眾黨團對於復議案的態度他們似乎也還沒有做最終的共同決定所以我認為各個急迫是有機會的我們要善用名氣可用跟所謂的憲政賦予的這個至高無上的權力我期待我們未來再提出復議之後能夠達到我們想要的結果我們一起來努力好下一頁\n這一次我作為民進黨團的國會改革小組的召集人但非常可惜不只程序正義被沒收了更重要的是民主審查完全被閹割而民進黨的不管是立法院職權行使法、立法院議事規則、立法院組織法乃至於立法委員行為法沒有半個案子能夠被並案審查\n我想這當中民進黨版所負責提出來的都符合憲法的精神民進黨的立法院職權行事法同樣入法規範了國會擁有調查權委員會擁有調閱小組的權限在民進黨版的議事規則裡頭都可以強化國家機密的保護守護國家安全\n在民進黨版的國會徵改革的議案當中我們能夠從立法院的組織來改造下手來成立立法院的資通安全處來防保護國家議會問政的資訊安全乃至於立法院要讓我們的法治局跟預算中心的幕僚能量可以提升就是讓國會有正向的問政專業可以彰顯當然包括立法委員行為法對於metoo法案對於泄密\n都應當有自律的相關的權責相符所以民進黨對於國會改革的方向絕對是非常清楚國會改革不是自我對於國會議員的權限的無限擴張而是建立一個權責相符國會有權就要有責\n只是非常可惜我們的議案至今仍被丟包、仍被封殺也懇請韓院長應當召集協商就民進黨版的國會真改革的議案能夠重建天日來踐行程序正義以及民主審查的國會精神好下一頁再下一頁\n在下一頁因為時間拖了比較多好在下一頁我跟您提醒不可不慎的幾個法案我只能給您幾個還有所有行政團隊一些預作示警跟準備包括在野黨團聯手推出的四大類行政團隊不可不慎的法案就是第一類親中法案第二類違憲法案第三類錢坑法案第四類亂政的法案下一頁\n親中法案就包括可能會提出的反滲透法的修正包括國安無法的修正這兩部分目前還沒有提案但是中配入籍的年限6年減為4年的修正案是已經排入議程正待審查\n第二部分違憲的法案就如同我們的國會擴權法案不幸的通過了還包括NCC的組織法要違反憲法的授權要改為政黨比例代表來推派委員包括要提出監察院的組織法又把手伸到監察院去這一類都是違憲的法案再來乾坑法案當然是三大花東建設還有環島高鐵的法案\n﹚吳思瑤\n﹏﹏\n謝謝謝謝吳思瑤委員、謝謝左院長的備詢。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.489 --> 00:29.230\n在我邀請卓院長之前我想先跟韓院長做個報告很抱歉本席並沒有依照您那天所頒布的服裝儀容的規定我今天還是穿著我擅長也習慣的白色球鞋我想有幾個理由我過去在教育文化委員會我長期推動各級學校的服裝儀容要解禁所以捍衛身體的自主權我認為立法委員也是\n\n00:30.168 --> 00:55.178\n第二個理由吳思瑤作為臺灣臺北時裝周的催生者臺灣的時尚就是最強大的國家軟實力現在最流行的就是運動風所以白球鞋小白鞋是所有當代的女性最舒適也能夠彰顯專業跟優雅的打扮第三點\n\n00:58.018 --> 01:13.979\n我也認為立法委員來國會問政不是上高級的西餐廳用餐尤其我是區域立委我服務北投天母我每天要請跑基層所以我必須穿球鞋\n\n01:14.997 --> 01:40.293\n立委的工作是專業的問政、理性的監督如果國會的議事運作沒有辦法正常化大家穿得再優雅、再高貴我想那都不是重點所以三件事向院長報告我也替多數的立法委員表達我們共同的立場謝謝有請我們卓院長有請卓院長\n\n01:51.702 --> 02:07.141\n吳委員好委員長好辛苦了今天我的主題行動創新AI內閣有路咱就沿路唱歌沒路咱聊天過夜這首歌我們都能朗朗上口\n\n02:08.178 --> 02:28.235\n這就是臺灣的處境,我們都在創造那一條康莊大道。但是今天一早中國又出招了,又出手了。中國再一次違反WTO以及ECFA的相關規範,那片面的來宣布終止對臺灣ECFA134項的產品關稅減讓。\n\n02:32.899 --> 02:58.483\n當然最主要是石化業當然也有少部分的紡織機械運輸工具等等對於中國這樣再一次的以商逼政那我們行政院會表達不滿嗎我們做的相關的因應跟回應是什麼就教於院長任何對國家的人民跟產業有產生傷害\n\n03:00.353 --> 03:27.504\n我們首先要做的是如何保護我們的人民跟產業以及適時的向國際社會透過正常的管道表達我們反對跟希望能夠更正的態度我也希望國際任何組織的任何成員們要能夠習慣要能夠適應在國際組織裡的生活不要隨便的去更改互動之間的規則這樣才能在國際間取得橫平的地位\n\n03:28.243 --> 03:37.437\n所以應當是陸委會也應當會有清楚的聲明來表達我方的不滿及抗議嗎是嗎我們請陸委會是謝謝委員有關於這次中國大陸\n\n03:42.645 --> 04:09.958\n再次以這個貿易制裁的理由違反ECFA說我們違反ECFA的相關的事由無理片面的宗旨我方134項ECFA找收清單關稅減占我們要在這裡表達強烈的抗議及不滿我想相關的後果應該由陸方來承擔\n\n04:12.369 --> 04:24.220\n我想這種對臺施壓恐嚇的政治操作只會扭曲兩岸經貿原本互利互惠的發展方向阻礙兩岸在國際產業分工架構的\n\n04:27.483 --> 04:27.503\n好。\n\n04:48.827 --> 05:10.776\n針對兩岸貿易的分歧,我們呼籲陸方應面對兩岸的現實,去除一些政治障礙,讓雙方務實溝通解決。這樣兩岸的經貿才是最有利的方法。經濟部門對於相關受創或受衝擊的產業是不是做好萬全的推演跟準備?\n\n05:11.656 --> 05:33.109\n是的,謝謝委員。在經濟部這邊呢,我想我們會針對目前的這個狀況,那麼跟這個實際受到傷害的業者,可以他們充分的溝通,然後協助他們轉移市場。快速啟動好嗎?快速啟動好嗎?謝謝幾位的答覆。那進入我今天的政題喔,來下一頁。\n\n05:35.284 --> 06:02.213\n國會剛完成了這個讓在抗議聲中在憤怒聲中通過了這個國會擴權的法案我今天在這裡呢要告訴院長以及所有的內閣團隊同仁質詢絕對不是上對下行政立法憑起憑坐沒有誰藐視誰而且最重要的是沒有討論沒有民主\n\n06:03.431 --> 06:16.960\n吳思瑤在這裡我歡迎每一位官員對我反質詢因為我認為如果我提出來的論述不夠精準有所失誤當然要糾正立法委員\n\n06:18.086 --> 06:43.181\n而且我們看到歐美各國先進的國會沒有單方面是上對下只有聽國會議員滔滔不絕然後一再的讓國會成為一言堂只要求官員成為乖乖牌官員都噤聲如果這樣的話政策沒有透過討論沒有透過辯論怎麼能夠讓政策最好的那一面能彰顯呢\n\n06:44.602 --> 06:46.564\n謝謝吳委員跟委員報告。我也曾經站在你那個位置上。\n\n07:04.005 --> 07:27.204\n我現在很希望告訴所有的委員當您站在那個位置上的時候您要想想有一天委員也可能站在這裡如果用這種同理心來進行答詢的話那就是兩院互動的良好而且跟委員報告你的質詢內容從過去到現在我都拜讀肯定過答覆都沒時間沒有時間反質詢\n\n07:29.397 --> 07:52.381\n我今天給你非常多的時間我過去思瑤的質詢風格我認為質詢是一個論述跟探討跟說服的過程我最終都希望能夠透過我完整的論述獲得行政部門的同仁一個肯定的yes其實我認為那就是我最大的honor也是我監督最高的一個很高的一個滿意那今天我們來看下一頁\n\n07:53.836 --> 08:16.383\n國際的正義之聲越來越多,國會擴權的法案通過之後,我們看這兩天,英國的金融時報也好或是經濟學人,其實長期關心臺灣的民主發展,他們都發出對於臺灣這種國會失序跟民主失靈的狀況提出非常多的示警,更重要的是也都點破了一個背後的核心問題。\n\n08:18.223 --> 08:45.588\n關鍵的問題就是這樣子的擴權修法都是中國作為贏無者為中國對台滲透來創造出可乘之機這是金融時報下的標經濟學人也說這樣的惡法通過之後確實有高度的擔憂就是臺灣重要的資訊可能出賣給中國的包括臺灣的民主制度下一頁\n\n08:46.548 --> 09:02.929\n所以您剛剛的報告也提到包括您之前在528當天您快速的來對外聲明面對國會的擴權行政院的復議是為了捍衛憲法的精神為了捍衛行政權\n\n09:04.170 --> 09:18.453\n那您可不可以具體的再告訴我們您認為哪些部分確實是至愛難行會嚴重影響行政部門來服務人民貢獻臺灣您不得不提出復議跟委員報告\n\n09:20.216 --> 09:41.821\n剛剛第一篇外國媒體的報導其實跟國內的國人的憂慮是蠻相近的所以剛剛我在報告的過程當中我也提出國人對於審議的過程是不是符合程序正義內容是不是有違反權利分立那麼侵害人民權益違反法律明確性等等\n\n09:43.069 --> 10:06.807\n我是在反映國人在這方面的疑慮政府的責任就在為國人的疑慮提出解決的辦法我也看到當天在國會內外的那種情形所以我們認為憲法一旦賦予行政機關有這樣的行政機關的權利那我們要再瞭解就是等到大院來文之後\n\n10:08.100 --> 10:35.013\n包括我我們會請所有的這個公法學專家一一詳細的審視所有的法律的條文的每一個字每一個鬥點每一個內涵每一個後面的意義我們會很清楚的來決定接下來行政機關憲政機關該做什麼樣的決定該有什麼樣的行為我絕對相信行政部門會提出非常周全的復議相關的準備我在這裡要提出提醒\n\n10:35.618 --> 10:57.511\n其實不只是這是一個政治動作的表態對於憲法精神的捍衛其實我也要把我所觀察跟您分享在這一步惡法通過之後那名氣可用其實我觀察到包括國民黨的多數對不起國民黨的內部也有部分委員立場在鬆動他們感受到民意的力量\n\n10:58.251 --> 11:24.892\n我也觀察到包括昨天您拜會了民眾黨團對於復議案的態度他們似乎也還沒有做最終的共同決定所以我認為各個急迫是有機會的我們要善用名氣可用跟所謂的憲政賦予的這個至高無上的權力我期待我們未來再提出復議之後能夠達到我們想要的結果我們一起來努力好下一頁\n\n11:26.415 --> 11:49.587\n這一次我作為民進黨團的國會改革小組的召集人但非常可惜不只程序正義被沒收了更重要的是民主審查完全被閹割而民進黨的不管是立法院職權行使法、立法院議事規則、立法院組織法乃至於立法委員行為法沒有半個案子能夠被並案審查\n\n11:50.347 --> 12:00.838\n我想這當中民進黨版所負責提出來的都符合憲法的精神民進黨的立法院職權行事法同樣入法規範了國會擁有調查權委員會擁有調閱小組的權限在民進黨版的議事規則裡頭都可以強化國家機密的保護守護國家安全\n\n12:11.388 --> 12:39.856\n在民進黨版的國會徵改革的議案當中我們能夠從立法院的組織來改造下手來成立立法院的資通安全處來防保護國家議會問政的資訊安全乃至於立法院要讓我們的法治局跟預算中心的幕僚能量可以提升就是讓國會有正向的問政專業可以彰顯當然包括立法委員行為法對於metoo法案對於泄密\n\n12:40.416 --> 13:01.481\n都應當有自律的相關的權責相符所以民進黨對於國會改革的方向絕對是非常清楚國會改革不是自我對於國會議員的權限的無限擴張而是建立一個權責相符國會有權就要有責\n\n13:02.441 --> 13:24.841\n只是非常可惜我們的議案至今仍被丟包、仍被封殺也懇請韓院長應當召集協商就民進黨版的國會真改革的議案能夠重建天日來踐行程序正義以及民主審查的國會精神好下一頁再下一頁\n\n13:26.035 --> 13:55.290\n在下一頁因為時間拖了比較多好在下一頁我跟您提醒不可不慎的幾個法案我只能給您幾個還有所有行政團隊一些預作示警跟準備包括在野黨團聯手推出的四大類行政團隊不可不慎的法案就是第一類親中法案第二類違憲法案第三類錢坑法案第四類亂政的法案下一頁\n\n13:56.526 --> 14:13.039\n親中法案就包括可能會提出的反滲透法的修正包括國安無法的修正這兩部分目前還沒有提案但是中配入籍的年限6年減為4年的修正案是已經排入議程正待審查\n\n14:13.900 --> 14:35.762\n第二部分違憲的法案就如同我們的國會擴權法案不幸的通過了還包括NCC的組織法要違反憲法的授權要改為政黨比例代表來推派委員包括要提出監察院的組織法又把手伸到監察院去這一類都是違憲的法案再來乾坑法案當然是三大花東建設還有環島高鐵的法案\n\n14:36.042 --> 14:36.062\n﹚吳思瑤\n\n15:51.363 --> 15:57.567\n謝謝謝謝吳思瑤委員、謝謝左院長的備詢。\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.489,"end":29.23,"text":"在我邀請卓院長之前我想先跟韓院長做個報告很抱歉本席並沒有依照您那天所頒布的服裝儀容的規定我今天還是穿著我擅長也習慣的白色球鞋我想有幾個理由我過去在教育文化委員會我長期推動各級學校的服裝儀容要解禁所以捍衛身體的自主權我認為立法委員也是"},{"start":30.168,"end":55.178,"text":"第二個理由吳思瑤作為臺灣臺北時裝周的催生者臺灣的時尚就是最強大的國家軟實力現在最流行的就是運動風所以白球鞋小白鞋是所有當代的女性最舒適也能夠彰顯專業跟優雅的打扮第三點"},{"start":58.018,"end":73.979,"text":"我也認為立法委員來國會問政不是上高級的西餐廳用餐尤其我是區域立委我服務北投天母我每天要請跑基層所以我必須穿球鞋"},{"start":74.997,"end":100.293,"text":"立委的工作是專業的問政、理性的監督如果國會的議事運作沒有辦法正常化大家穿得再優雅、再高貴我想那都不是重點所以三件事向院長報告我也替多數的立法委員表達我們共同的立場謝謝有請我們卓院長有請卓院長"},{"start":111.702,"end":127.141,"text":"吳委員好 委員長好 辛苦了今天我的主題行動創新AI內閣 有路咱就沿路唱歌 沒路咱聊天過夜 這首歌我們都能朗朗上口"},{"start":128.178,"end":148.235,"text":"這就是臺灣的處境,我們都在創造那一條康莊大道。但是今天一早中國又出招了,又出手了。中國再一次違反WTO以及ECFA的相關規範,那片面的來宣布終止對臺灣ECFA134項的產品關稅減讓。"},{"start":152.899,"end":178.483,"text":"當然最主要是石化業當然也有少部分的紡織機械運輸工具等等對於中國這樣再一次的以商逼政那我們行政院會表達不滿嗎我們做的相關的因應跟回應是什麼就教於院長任何對國家的人民跟產業有產生傷害"},{"start":180.353,"end":207.504,"text":"我們首先要做的是如何保護我們的人民跟產業以及適時的向國際社會透過正常的管道表達我們反對跟希望能夠更正的態度我也希望國際任何組織的任何成員們要能夠習慣要能夠適應在國際組織裡的生活不要隨便的去更改互動之間的規則這樣才能在國際間取得橫平的地位"},{"start":208.243,"end":217.437,"text":"所以應當是陸委會也應當會有清楚的聲明來表達我方的不滿及抗議嗎是嗎我們請陸委會是謝謝委員有關於這次中國大陸"},{"start":222.645,"end":249.958,"text":"再次以這個貿易制裁的理由違反ECFA說我們違反ECFA的相關的事由無理片面的宗旨我方134項ECFA找收清單關稅減占我們要在這裡表達強烈的抗議及不滿我想相關的後果應該由陸方來承擔"},{"start":252.369,"end":264.22,"text":"我想這種對臺施壓恐嚇的政治操作只會扭曲兩岸經貿原本互利互惠的發展方向阻礙兩岸在國際產業分工架構的"},{"start":267.483,"end":267.503,"text":"好。"},{"start":288.827,"end":310.776,"text":"針對兩岸貿易的分歧,我們呼籲陸方應面對兩岸的現實,去除一些政治障礙,讓雙方務實溝通解決。這樣兩岸的經貿才是最有利的方法。經濟部門對於相關受創或受衝擊的產業是不是做好萬全的推演跟準備?"},{"start":311.656,"end":333.109,"text":"是的,謝謝委員。在經濟部這邊呢,我想我們會針對目前的這個狀況,那麼跟這個實際受到傷害的業者,可以他們充分的溝通,然後協助他們轉移市場。快速啟動好嗎?快速啟動好嗎?謝謝幾位的答覆。那進入我今天的政題喔,來下一頁。"},{"start":335.284,"end":362.213,"text":"國會剛完成了這個讓在抗議聲中在憤怒聲中通過了這個國會擴權的法案我今天在這裡呢要告訴院長以及所有的內閣團隊同仁質詢絕對不是上對下行政立法憑起憑坐沒有誰藐視誰而且最重要的是沒有討論沒有民主"},{"start":363.431,"end":376.96,"text":"吳思瑤在這裡我歡迎每一位官員對我反質詢因為我認為如果我提出來的論述不夠精準有所失誤當然要糾正立法委員"},{"start":378.086,"end":403.181,"text":"而且我們看到歐美各國先進的國會沒有單方面是上對下只有聽國會議員滔滔不絕然後一再的讓國會成為一言堂只要求官員成為乖乖牌官員都噤聲如果這樣的話政策沒有透過討論沒有透過辯論怎麼能夠讓政策最好的那一面能彰顯呢"},{"start":404.602,"end":406.564,"text":"謝謝吳委員跟委員報告。我也曾經站在你那個位置上。"},{"start":424.005,"end":447.204,"text":"我現在很希望告訴所有的委員當您站在那個位置上的時候您要想想有一天委員也可能站在這裡如果用這種同理心來進行答詢的話那就是兩院互動的良好而且跟委員報告你的質詢內容從過去到現在我都拜讀肯定過答覆都沒時間沒有時間反質詢"},{"start":449.397,"end":472.381,"text":"我今天給你非常多的時間我過去思瑤的質詢風格我認為質詢是一個論述跟探討跟說服的過程我最終都希望能夠透過我完整的論述獲得行政部門的同仁一個肯定的yes其實我認為那就是我最大的honor也是我監督最高的一個很高的一個滿意那今天我們來看下一頁"},{"start":473.836,"end":496.383,"text":"國際的正義之聲越來越多,國會擴權的法案通過之後,我們看這兩天,英國的金融時報也好或是經濟學人,其實長期關心臺灣的民主發展,他們都發出對於臺灣這種國會失序跟民主失靈的狀況提出非常多的示警,更重要的是也都點破了一個背後的核心問題。"},{"start":498.223,"end":525.588,"text":"關鍵的問題就是這樣子的擴權修法都是中國作為贏無者為中國對台滲透來創造出可乘之機這是金融時報下的標經濟學人也說這樣的惡法通過之後確實有高度的擔憂就是臺灣重要的資訊可能出賣給中國的包括臺灣的民主制度下一頁"},{"start":526.548,"end":542.929,"text":"所以您剛剛的報告也提到包括您之前在528當天您快速的來對外聲明面對國會的擴權行政院的復議是為了捍衛憲法的精神為了捍衛行政權"},{"start":544.17,"end":558.453,"text":"那您可不可以具體的再告訴我們您認為哪些部分確實是至愛難行會嚴重影響行政部門來服務人民貢獻臺灣您不得不提出復議跟委員報告"},{"start":560.216,"end":581.821,"text":"剛剛第一篇外國媒體的報導其實跟國內的國人的憂慮是蠻相近的所以剛剛我在報告的過程當中我也提出國人對於審議的過程是不是符合程序正義內容是不是有違反權利分立那麼侵害人民權益違反法律明確性等等"},{"start":583.069,"end":606.807,"text":"我是在反映國人在這方面的疑慮政府的責任就在為國人的疑慮提出解決的辦法我也看到當天在國會內外的那種情形所以我們認為憲法一旦賦予行政機關有這樣的行政機關的權利那我們要再瞭解就是等到大院來文之後"},{"start":608.1,"end":635.013,"text":"包括我我們會請所有的這個公法學專家一一詳細的審視所有的法律的條文的每一個字每一個鬥點每一個內涵每一個後面的意義我們會很清楚的來決定接下來行政機關憲政機關該做什麼樣的決定該有什麼樣的行為我絕對相信行政部門會提出非常周全的復議相關的準備我在這裡要提出提醒"},{"start":635.618,"end":657.511,"text":"其實不只是這是一個政治動作的表態對於憲法精神的捍衛其實我也要把我所觀察跟您分享在這一步惡法通過之後那名氣可用其實我觀察到包括國民黨的多數對不起國民黨的內部也有部分委員立場在鬆動他們感受到民意的力量"},{"start":658.251,"end":684.892,"text":"我也觀察到包括昨天您拜會了民眾黨團對於復議案的態度他們似乎也還沒有做最終的共同決定所以我認為各個急迫是有機會的我們要善用名氣可用跟所謂的憲政賦予的這個至高無上的權力我期待我們未來再提出復議之後能夠達到我們想要的結果我們一起來努力好下一頁"},{"start":686.415,"end":709.587,"text":"這一次我作為民進黨團的國會改革小組的召集人但非常可惜不只程序正義被沒收了更重要的是民主審查完全被閹割而民進黨的不管是立法院職權行使法、立法院議事規則、立法院組織法乃至於立法委員行為法沒有半個案子能夠被並案審查"},{"start":710.347,"end":720.838,"text":"我想這當中民進黨版所負責提出來的都符合憲法的精神民進黨的立法院職權行事法同樣入法規範了國會擁有調查權委員會擁有調閱小組的權限在民進黨版的議事規則裡頭都可以強化國家機密的保護守護國家安全"},{"start":731.388,"end":759.856,"text":"在民進黨版的國會徵改革的議案當中我們能夠從立法院的組織來改造下手來成立立法院的資通安全處來防保護國家議會問政的資訊安全乃至於立法院要讓我們的法治局跟預算中心的幕僚能量可以提升就是讓國會有正向的問政專業可以彰顯當然包括立法委員行為法對於metoo法案對於泄密"},{"start":760.416,"end":781.481,"text":"都應當有自律的相關的權責相符所以民進黨對於國會改革的方向絕對是非常清楚國會改革不是自我對於國會議員的權限的無限擴張而是建立一個權責相符國會有權就要有責"},{"start":782.441,"end":804.841,"text":"只是非常可惜我們的議案至今仍被丟包、仍被封殺也懇請韓院長應當召集協商就民進黨版的國會真改革的議案能夠重建天日來踐行程序正義以及民主審查的國會精神好下一頁再下一頁"},{"start":806.035,"end":835.29,"text":"在下一頁因為時間拖了比較多好在下一頁我跟您提醒不可不慎的幾個法案我只能給您幾個還有所有行政團隊一些預作示警跟準備包括在野黨團聯手推出的四大類行政團隊不可不慎的法案就是第一類親中法案第二類違憲法案第三類錢坑法案第四類亂政的法案下一頁"},{"start":836.526,"end":853.039,"text":"親中法案就包括可能會提出的反滲透法的修正包括國安無法的修正這兩部分目前還沒有提案但是中配入籍的年限6年減為4年的修正案是已經排入議程正待審查"},{"start":853.9,"end":875.762,"text":"第二部分違憲的法案就如同我們的國會擴權法案不幸的通過了還包括NCC的組織法要違反憲法的授權要改為政黨比例代表來推派委員包括要提出監察院的組織法又把手伸到監察院去這一類都是違憲的法案再來乾坑法案當然是三大花東建設還有環島高鐵的法案"},{"start":876.042,"end":876.062,"text":"﹚吳思瑤"},{"start":905.862,"end":929.053,"text":"﹏﹏"},{"start":951.363,"end":957.567,"text":"謝謝謝謝吳思瑤委員、謝謝左院長的備詢。"}]}}}}