{"id":153443,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153443","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2dd358c888e2c707db1cd7f450ad2ad4b263bafebededa07eb068d4dbfff0b0c5f40f2ff3a0ba36f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李彥秀","委員發言時間":"09:34:51 - 09:46:47","影片長度":"00:11:56","會議時間":"2024-06-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：一、繼續審查「財政收支劃分法」14案：（繼續詢答）\n(一)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「財政收支劃分法修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院國民黨黨團、委員羅明才等23人、委員林思銘等20人、委員許宇甄等16人、委員洪孟楷等22人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法部分條文修正草案」等5案。\n(三)\t本院委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員陳玉珍等24人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員王鴻薇等24人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)\t本院委員陳超明等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(七)\t本院委員賴瑞隆等16人、委員蔡易餘等16人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一條文修正草案」等2案。\n(八)\t本院委員賴士葆等29人擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之二、第三十七條之二及第三十八條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(九)\t本院委員賴士葆等22人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三十八條之一條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查「財政收支劃分法」3案：（繼續詢答）\n(一)\t本院委員丁學忠等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院委員黃健豪等21人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條及第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n【6月3日及6日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-06-03","start_time":"2024-06-03T09:34:51+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-03T09:46:47+08:00","duration":716,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第16次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":16,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-16"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":207,"blocks":[["李委員彥秀：（9時34分）我請部長。"],["主席：請莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員早。"],["李委員彥秀：謝謝部長，部長辛苦了！剛才聽到幾位委員的質詢，還有包括前幾天的質詢，25年沒有修的財劃法，到今天為止，我想無論是過去的賴清德賴市長、擔任行政院長的賴院長、擔任副總統的賴副總統，過去都曾經提過財劃法要修，他過去曾經說過：希望在今年提出財劃法的版本草案，這個「今年」，部長知道是什麼時候嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：您說什麼？今年是……"],["李委員彥秀：7年前！"],["莊部長翠雲：喔，7年前。"],["李委員彥秀：又7年過去了喔！所以這個希望一直變失望，讓各縣市政府失望了，外界就會覺得行政院的版本，包括財政部，其實都一直是虛應故事。今天幾位委員的質詢，我聽到的感覺就是中央想要集權又要集錢，剛才又說地方沒有共識，所以沒辦法修，但過去我也曾經聽過部長說修法沒有時間表，我覺得你們在玩兩套策略耶！只要擔任地方的縣市首長，無論是過去的賴市長，或是今天所有各縣市不管是哪一個政黨執政，都認為財劃法是應該要修的。你曾說過修法沒有時間表，特別剛才又講到沒有共識，我剛剛也聽到其他委員提問你的共識指的是什麼？我們當然希望共識可以極大化，少數一兩個或許有不同意見，但是在立法院也好，在行政院也好，哪一個推出的版本，幾乎很少說是有百分之百的共識，有98%、97%已經是不錯了，要推到有共識要等到什麼時候？","我必須要講，今天的財劃法、25年沒有修的財劃法，是一個不公不義又不仁的版本！我為什麼這麼說？部長，你應該知道，總稅收的87%是國稅，這個國稅包含綜所稅、營業稅、關稅、證交稅，這些都是大稅，這些大稅過去幾年成長到104%，以證交稅來說，這幾年玩股票的人很多啊，有漲幅的空間，地方收到什麼？地方收到的是地價稅、土地增值稅、房屋稅，這些占總稅收的13%而已，這些稅的漲幅有限，所以各縣市每年都嗷嗷待哺，眼巴巴的看著行政院怎麼分。我為什麼說這是一個不公不義又不仁的版本？因為中央把肉多的都拿掉了，剩下的地方稅留給地方政府，只有13%，而且這13%是房屋稅、土地增值稅等，漲幅真的非常少，但是我們地方要負責的是什麼？包括人事費的調漲，第一年可能中央出，中央還不一定百分之百出，我們的交通建設、我們的社會安全網要地方來支付，我們的淨零減碳或者是警政治安，還有地方自治的委辦事項等這些項目，部長，這幾年委辦事項的項目越來越多，所以我剛才提到現在的財劃法是一個不公不義又不仁的版本，已經到了一個非修不可的地步！有人說這個是藍白合來包圍中央，哪來的藍白合來包圍中央？過去民進黨縣市首長，我不知道今天的黃偉哲等幾位縣市首長是不是也認為財劃法不要修了，我希望不要換了一個位置就換了一個腦袋，因為過去的賴市長也認為應該要修。","我們來看一張圖，這張是111年中央挹注地方財源情形表，我們就以這張圖來看，現在中央挹注地方的財源分兩大塊，一塊是統籌分配稅款，一塊是補助收入，又分為一般補助跟專案收入，以臺北市為例，大家都說臺北市統籌分配稅款最多，有495億，再加上補助收入179億，合加起來在111年臺北市總共收到674億；我們再來看高雄市的情形，高雄的統籌分配稅款在民國111年是425億，但是高雄的補助收入卻達到437億，合計下來，中央給它的錢達到862億，所以它的排序是第一。我剛為什麼說地方嗷嗷待哺、要看中央的臉色？以補助收入來說，它高興給誰就給誰，所以我們才更認為財劃法要儘速的做制度化的處理，否則對於地方建設的穩定性，地方政府不知道明年可以給多少，因為地方的自籌能力有限，我們當然希望地方政府可以有自籌的能力，但不是每一個縣市都是如此，如果沒有一個穩健的、長期的中央挹注地方財源收入的話，它就不敢大刀闊斧地去做長遠的地方建設的規劃。我想部長非常清楚我在講什麼，所以我必須還是要提，部長，時間表到底有沒有？如果沒有共識，你還是不打算修嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，沒有共識的話，立法怎麼會通過，就如過去五度的提出修法版本，但是為什麼沒有完成修法程序，就是因為沒有共識，所以我們對於這個部分現在就是一直在做這方面的努力，希望把歧異縮小，讓共識最大。"],["李委員彥秀：努力7年了！不管你是在位幾年，不管你是在這個位子上幾年，努力幾年了！"],["莊部長翠雲：像委員您也對臺北市非常的關心，所以把這個部分提出來，因為各地方政府都會對他自己所獲得的財源來做努力跟爭取，這個部分我們都完全理解，但是我們的分配公式就是要入法……"],["李委員彥秀：我希望後天的公聽會，如果達到最大的共識、大多數的共識，我覺得就應該要提修法，因為我相信我剛剛有提出原因了，到現在25年沒修的財劃法就是一個不公不仁又不義的版本。","第二，我要再提的是首都保留的部分，我還是要幫臺北市提一下。臺北市為首善之都，不論是在城市的競爭力，還有各項經費的支持，還有臺北市各項營建物料、物價等等，其實都高於其他的縣市，所以我強烈要求在統籌分配的部分要加上首都保留，這個部分過去有，我強調在這一次也必須要加進來。","部長，我要問另外一個問題，前幾天我看到新聞，因為你是一個女性的部長，有關於5月16號關務署的針孔偷拍事件，你們後面到底打算怎麼處理？就交給警察來處理嗎？由警察單位來調查嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：第一個，當然我們有交給檢察署來做處理，檢察署……"],["李委員彥秀：你們自己的角色是什麼？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們自己的角色，第一個，我們對於這個加害人做處置，調離原來的單位，讓他到另外一個工作單位，為什麼？因為要避免造成周遭女性同仁的一些恐懼，這個我們完全理解，所以我們就調職……"],["李委員彥秀：當然要調，部長，你是女性部長，在一年前，去年7月份完成性平三法的通過，要建立專業的、可信賴的性平防治制度是重要的，海關當然要全力配合釐清調查，但是你絕對不是只有協助的角色。我關注到，在你們同仁的心聲論壇裡面有人發文提到：有人關心被害人的感受嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：當然會。"],["李委員彥秀：你們曾經還勸人家說要不要和解算了，有沒有這件事情？"],["莊部長翠雲：我認為應該不會，為什麼？因為現在性騷的處理不可以……"],["李委員彥秀：部長，你不要說你認為沒有，我就得到內部的資訊，就是問她要不要和解，部長，你身為女性部長，心態上不要這樣子，好不好？性平三法去年通過……"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有，我跟委員報告，沒有要求她要和解。"],["李委員彥秀：你們當時第一時間，剛開始要調他……"],["莊部長翠雲：不會，我們已經送檢察署……"],["李委員彥秀：性平法第十三條第二項第二款、第二項第一款及第四項有規定應該通知地方主管機關，而且要做適當的懲戒，我請問你，懲戒的結果出來了嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：出來了。"],["李委員彥秀：什麼時候出來的？"],["莊部長翠雲：上個禮拜，我們經過……"],["李委員彥秀：那是因為媒體揭露之後你們才出來的。"],["莊部長翠雲：我們記大過……"],["李委員彥秀：好了，你不用回答我，那是因為媒體揭露之後才出來的。"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有，我覺得這是我們正常程序都有在做啦。"],["李委員彥秀：好，我們來看下一張……"],["莊部長翠雲：然後性騷委員會也有在做處理。"],["李委員彥秀：原來要把他調動單位，部長，你說懲戒出來，上個禮拜懲戒出來，請看螢幕上這一張，他原來的單位是業務一科，結果調任的單位還是在業務一科，還是在一個辦公室裡，後來是因為媒體揭露了之後，你才把他從原來的竹圍分關調到新單位的什麼業務一組，我覺得部長不要在這邊唬弄我。"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有唬弄委員，我們絕對不敢唬弄委員，我們講的是事實。"],["李委員彥秀：這件事情如果沒有媒體的揭露，部長，你是女性部長耶！性平三法去年才通過啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：我們當天就已經移送地檢署了……"],["李委員彥秀：移送地檢署？"],["莊部長翠雲：因為地檢署……"],["李委員彥秀：你還是有一定的角色喔！性平三法主管機關內部要懲處……"],["莊部長翠雲：有的，懲處了……"],["李委員彥秀：要調、移動單位……"],["莊部長翠雲：移動單位。"],["李委員彥秀：而且性騷法你要通知，這個事情發生在哪裡？"],["莊部長翠雲：有的，我們也馬上處理，由性平委員會處理。"],["李委員彥秀：臺北市嗎？臺北市就要通知臺北市政府啊，勞工局要介入啊！不是只有移送給警察局你就完全沒事情耶！"],["莊部長翠雲：我們機關內部行政懲處，還有性平審議委員會已經都開始啟動了。"],["李委員彥秀：部長，你身為女性部長，這件事情的處理讓大家對你是非常失望，所以我才會在你們同仁裡面內部網站上的心聲論壇，看到你身為女性處理這件事情，大家對於你是不滿的啦！署長，你應該知道我在說什麼，部長可能沒有辦法掌握所有的狀況，但是署長應該知道我在說什麼，這個事情如果不處理好，我覺得在性平法上面整個民進黨政府是退步的。部長，我覺得這樣對你也不好，我是提醒你，你是女性部長，在這個事情你要比別人處理得更到位、更周延，才不會讓所有的人失望，以上。謝謝！"],["莊部長翠雲：是，謝謝委員！我們已經盡全力處置。"],["主席：謝謝。","接著請李坤城委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":228,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-16","speakers":["羅明才","黃珊珊","黃國昌","李彥秀","李坤城","郭國文","王鴻薇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","張智倫","鄭正鈐","牛煦庭","萬美玲","邱鎮軍","羅廷瑋","廖先翔","鍾佳濱","邱若華"],"page_start":47,"meetingDate":["2024-06-03"],"gazette_id":"1135801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、繼續審查「財政收支劃分法」14案：（繼續詢答）(一)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「財政收支\n劃分法修正草案」案、(二)本院國民黨黨團、委員羅明才等23人、委員林思銘等20人、委員許宇\n甄等16人、委員洪孟楷等22人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法部分條文修正草案」等 5案、(三)本院\n委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三條條文修正草案」案、(四)\n本院委員陳玉珍等24人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員王鴻薇等\n24人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第三十條條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員陳超\n明等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條、第十二條及第十六條之一條文修正草案」案、(七)本院\n委員賴瑞隆等16人、委員蔡易餘等16人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一條文修正草案」\n等2案、(八)本院委員賴士葆等29人擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之二、第三十七條之二及第\n三十八條之二條文修正草案」案、(九)本院委員賴士葆等22人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三十八條\n之一條文修正草案」案；二、審查「財政收支劃分法」3案：（繼續詢答）(一)本院委員丁學忠\n等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法部分條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委員黃健豪等21人擬具「財政收\n支劃分法第八條及第十二條條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「財政收支劃分\n法第八條、第十二條及第十六條之一條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1135801_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"153443","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153443","tool":"pyannote","id":"153443-pyannote"},"job_id":"FbHnOAQydAqXy4do","queued_at":"2024-06-03 15:11:05","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-03 15:11:05","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153443"},{"time":"2024-06-03 15:11:07","msg":"downloading 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00:00:29,559\n收支劃分法財政收支劃分法財政收支劃分法財政收支劃分法\n\n3\n00:00:50,077 --> 00:00:52,239\n收支劃分法、財政收支劃分法、財政收支劃分法、財政收支劃分法、財政收支劃分\n\n4\n00:01:05,613 --> 00:01:23,141\n從今天這幾位委員質詢起來我聽到的感覺就是中央想要集權又要集錢剛才用說地方沒有共識所以沒辦法修過去我也曾聽到這個部長曾經提說修法沒有時間表我覺得你們在玩兩套策略\n\n5\n00:01:28,075 --> 00:01:50,050\n只要擔任地方的縣市首長,無論是過去的賴市長,包括今天所有各縣不管是哪一個縣市執政,都認為財法法是應該要修的。你講到說修法沒有時間表,特別剛才講到說沒有共識,我剛才也聽到其他委員提到說,你的共識指的是什麼?\n\n6\n00:01:50,973 --> 00:02:10,243\n我們當然希望共識可以極小化、極大化少數一兩個或許有不同意見但是在立法院也好在行政院也好哪一個推出的版本幾乎很少說是百分之百百分之九十八、百分之九十七已經是不錯了\n\n7\n00:02:11,857 --> 00:02:25,389\n要推到有共識要等到什麼時候我必須要講今天的財劃法25年沒有修的財劃法是一個不公不義又不仁的版本我為什麼這麼說部長你應該知道87%是國稅這個國稅包含鎮所稅、營業稅、關稅、鎮交稅\n\n8\n00:02:35,078 --> 00:03:00,916\n這些都是大稅這些大稅過去幾年成長到百分之一百零四增加稅這幾年玩股票的人很多啊有漲幅的空間地方收到什麼地方收到地價稅、土地增值稅、房屋稅這些佔了總稅的百分之十三而已這些稅漲幅有限\n\n9\n00:03:02,170 --> 00:03:27,409\n所以各縣市每年都嗷嗷待哺眼睛眼巴巴的看著行政院怎麼分我為什麼說這是一個不公不義又不仁的版本因為中央把肉多的都拿掉了剩下的地方稅留給地方政府它只有13%而且這13%房屋稅、地土地增值稅漲幅真的非常少\n\n10\n00:03:29,244 --> 00:03:54,370\n但是我們地方要負責的是什麼?包括人事費的調漲第一年可能中央出第二年中央還不一定百分之百出我們的交通建設我們的社會安全網要地方來支付我們的淨零減碳或者是警政治安還有委辦事項地方知識委辦事項這些項目這幾年不漲\n\n11\n00:03:56,004 --> 00:04:18,223\n委辦事項的項目越來越多。」所以我剛才提到這是一個不公不義又不仁的版本現在的財劃法它是到了一個非說不得的地步有人說這個是藍白何來包圍中央哪來的藍白何來包圍中央過去民進黨\n\n12\n00:04:20,303 --> 00:04:36,616\n縣市首長﹖我不知道今天的黃偉哲幾位縣市首長是不是也認為採訪法不要修了我希望不要換了一個位置換了一個腦袋因為過去的賴市長也認為應該要修好我們來看一張圖中央挹注地方財源的狀況我們來看下一張\n\n13\n00:04:39,929 --> 00:05:04,809\n有一個圖是111年我以這張圖來看我們現在中央益助財源有分兩大塊一塊是統籌分配稅一塊是補助的收入分為一般補助跟專案的收入以台北市為例大家都說台北市統籌分配稅款最多495億那又加上一個補助的收入179億\n\n14\n00:05:06,823 --> 00:05:10,313\n合加起來在111年台北市總共收到674億\n\n15\n00:05:13,106 --> 00:05:38,832\n那我們以台中、高雄來看好了,台中的統籌分配稅管在民國111年是425億,但是它的高雄的補助收入卻達到437億,所以它的總合計中央給它的錢達到862億,所以它的排序是第一。我剛剛為什麼說地方嗷嗷呆不要看中央臉色,以補助收入來說,\n\n16\n00:05:40,472 --> 00:05:42,794\n收支劃分法．一、繼續審查財政收支劃分法．一、繼續審查財政收支劃分法．一、繼續審查財政收支劃分法．一、\n\n17\n00:06:05,097 --> 00:06:23,240\n但是如果不是一個穩健的地方財源收入長期的中央藝術地方財源收入的話他就不敢大刀闊斧的去做長遠的地方建設的規劃我想部長你非常清楚我在講什麼所以我必須還是要提部長時間表到底有沒有如果沒有共識你還是不打算修嗎\n\n18\n00:06:33,049 --> 00:06:47,623\n委員沒有共識的話立法怎麼會通過就如過去五度的提出修法版本但是為什麼沒有完成立法的修法的程序就是因為沒有共識所以我們這個部分現在就是一直在做這個努力希望把\n\n19\n00:06:48,483 --> 00:07:05,374\n努力7年了,不管你是在位幾年,不管你是在這個位置上幾年,努力幾年了。您也對台北市非常的關心這個部分提出來,因為各地方政府或者也好都會對他自己所獲得的財源來做努力跟爭取,這個部分我們都完全理解。\n\n20\n00:07:05,794 --> 00:07:08,355\n收支劃分法：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查�\n\n21\n00:07:28,783 --> 00:07:30,325\n收支劃分法修正草案：一、繼續審查〈一、繼續審查〉\n\n22\n00:07:52,907 --> 00:08:01,772\n有關於在5月16號的這個關務署的偷拍的事件,針孔偷拍的事件,你們後面到底打算怎麼處理?\n\n23\n00:08:03,015 --> 00:08:03,676\n收支劃分法修正草案：一、繼續審查\n\n24\n00:08:24,531 --> 00:08:25,572\n收支劃分法：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：\n\n25\n00:08:53,665 --> 00:08:54,266\n財政收支劃分法：立法院第11屆第12會期財政收支劃分法\n\n26\n00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:28,065\n都應該通知地方主管機關而且要懲戒。」我請問你懲戒的結果出來了嗎?出來了。什麼時候出來的?上個禮拜我們經過...那是因為媒體揭露之後你們才出來,好,你不用回答我。那是因為媒體揭露之後才出來,好,我們來看下一張,你原來要把它調到了大位,部長。\n\n27\n00:09:42,967 --> 00:10:03,841\n我們來看下一張,那是上個禮拜審界出來,來給我下一張你們原來要給他調的單位是業務一科最後調任的單位還是在業務一科還是在一個辦公室裡後來是因為媒體揭露了之後你才把他從原來的逐微分官調到這個新單位的什麼業務一組\n\n28\n00:10:06,124 --> 00:10:08,665\n收支劃分法：立法院第11屆第1會期財政收支劃分法\n\n29\n00:10:22,791 --> 00:10:47,763\n移送地檢署,你還是有一定的角色喔!新平三法主管機關,你內部要懲處,要調移動單位,而且新規法你要通知這個事情發生在哪裡?臺北市就要通知臺北市政府啊!勞工局要介入啊!不是只有移送給警察局,你就完全沒事情欸!我們機關內部行政懲處委還有新平審議委員會已經都開始啟動啦!\n\n30\n00:10:49,520 --> 00:11:15,290\n部長這件事情噢造成同仁對你你身為女性部長你處理的大家是非常失望所以我才會在你們同仁裡面內部一個網站上的論壇關注到新生論壇看到大家其實對於這件事情你處理身為女性吧大家是不滿的啦署長你應該知道我在說什麼啦部長可能沒有辦法掌握所有的狀況但是署長你應該知道我在說什麼我覺得\n\n31\n00:11:17,691 --> 00:11:18,772\n收支劃分法修正草案、委員羅明才等23人分別擬具\n\n32\n00:11:46,072 --> 00:11:48,485\n接著請李昆城、李委員質詢。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2472\t3933\t我請部長。請莊部長。謝謝部長。部長辛苦了。剛才聽到幾位委員的質詢,還有包括前幾天的質詢,25年沒有修的財劃法。到今天為止,上一次,我想無論是過去的賴清德、賴市長,\n27858\t29559\t收支劃分法 財政收支劃分法 財政收支劃分法 財政收支劃分法\n50077\t52239\t收支劃分法、財政收支劃分法、財政收支劃分法、財政收支劃分法、財政收支劃分\n65613\t83141\t從今天這幾位委員質詢起來我聽到的感覺就是中央想要集權又要集錢剛才用說地方沒有共識所以沒辦法修過去我也曾聽到這個部長曾經提說修法沒有時間表我覺得你們在玩兩套策略\n88075\t110050\t只要擔任地方的縣市首長,無論是過去的賴市長,包括今天所有各縣不管是哪一個縣市執政,都認為財法法是應該要修的。你講到說修法沒有時間表,特別剛才講到說沒有共識,我剛才也聽到其他委員提到說,你的共識指的是什麼?\n110973\t130243\t我們當然希望共識可以極小化、極大化少數一兩個或許有不同意見但是在立法院也好在行政院也好哪一個推出的版本幾乎很少說是百分之百百分之九十八、百分之九十七已經是不錯了\n131857\t145389\t要推到有共識要等到什麼時候我必須要講今天的財劃法25年沒有修的財劃法是一個不公不義又不仁的版本我為什麼這麼說部長你應該知道87%是國稅這個國稅包含鎮所稅、營業稅、關稅、鎮交稅\n155078\t180916\t這些都是大稅這些大稅過去幾年成長到百分之一百零四增加稅這幾年玩股票的人很多啊有漲幅的空間地方收到什麼地方收到地價稅、土地增值稅、房屋稅這些佔了總稅的百分之十三而已這些稅漲幅有限\n182170\t207409\t所以各縣市每年都嗷嗷待哺眼睛眼巴巴的看著行政院怎麼分我為什麼說這是一個不公不義又不仁的版本因為中央把肉多的都拿掉了剩下的地方稅留給地方政府它只有13%而且這13%房屋稅、地土地增值稅漲幅真的非常少\n209244\t234370\t但是我們地方要負責的是什麼?包括人事費的調漲第一年可能中央出第二年中央還不一定百分之百出我們的交通建設我們的社會安全網要地方來支付我們的淨零減碳或者是警政治安還有委辦事項地方知識委辦事項這些項目這幾年不漲\n236004\t258223\t委辦事項的項目越來越多。」所以我剛才提到這是一個不公不義又不仁的版本現在的財劃法它是到了一個非說不得的地步有人說這個是藍白何來包圍中央哪來的藍白何來包圍中央過去民進黨\n260303\t276616\t縣市首長﹖我不知道今天的黃偉哲幾位縣市首長是不是也認為採訪法不要修了我希望不要換了一個位置換了一個腦袋因為過去的賴市長也認為應該要修好我們來看一張圖中央挹注地方財源的狀況我們來看下一張\n279929\t304809\t有一個圖是111年我以這張圖來看我們現在中央益助財源有分兩大塊一塊是統籌分配稅一塊是補助的收入分為一般補助跟專案的收入以台北市為例大家都說台北市統籌分配稅款最多495億那又加上一個補助的收入179億\n306823\t310313\t合加起來在111年台北市總共收到674億\n313106\t338832\t那我們以台中、高雄來看好了,台中的統籌分配稅管在民國111年是425億,但是它的高雄的補助收入卻達到437億,所以它的總合計中央給它的錢達到862億,所以它的排序是第一。我剛剛為什麼說地方嗷嗷呆不要看中央臉色,以補助收入來說,\n340472\t342794\t收支劃分法．一、繼續審查財政收支劃分法．一、繼續審查財政收支劃分法．一、繼續審查財政收支劃分法．一、\n365097\t383240\t但是如果不是一個穩健的地方財源收入長期的中央藝術地方財源收入的話他就不敢大刀闊斧的去做長遠的地方建設的規劃我想部長你非常清楚我在講什麼所以我必須還是要提部長時間表到底有沒有如果沒有共識你還是不打算修嗎\n393049\t407623\t委員沒有共識的話立法怎麼會通過就如過去五度的提出修法版本但是為什麼沒有完成立法的修法的程序就是因為沒有共識所以我們這個部分現在就是一直在做這個努力希望把\n408483\t425374\t努力7年了,不管你是在位幾年,不管你是在這個位置上幾年,努力幾年了。您也對台北市非常的關心這個部分提出來,因為各地方政府或者也好都會對他自己所獲得的財源來做努力跟爭取,這個部分我們都完全理解。\n425794\t428355\t收支劃分法：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查�\n448783\t450325\t收支劃分法修正草案：一、繼續審查〈一、繼續審查〉\n472907\t481772\t有關於在5月16號的這個關務署的偷拍的事件,針孔偷拍的事件,你們後面到底打算怎麼處理?\n483015\t483676\t收支劃分法修正草案：一、繼續審查\n504531\t505572\t收支劃分法：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：\n533665\t534266\t財政收支劃分法：立法院第11屆第12會期財政收支劃分法\n561600\t568065\t都應該通知地方主管機關而且要懲戒。」我請問你懲戒的結果出來了嗎?出來了。什麼時候出來的?上個禮拜我們經過...那是因為媒體揭露之後你們才出來,好,你不用回答我。那是因為媒體揭露之後才出來,好,我們來看下一張,你原來要把它調到了大位,部長。\n582967\t603841\t我們來看下一張,那是上個禮拜審界出來,來給我下一張你們原來要給他調的單位是業務一科最後調任的單位還是在業務一科還是在一個辦公室裡後來是因為媒體揭露了之後你才把他從原來的逐微分官調到這個新單位的什麼業務一組\n606124\t608665\t收支劃分法：立法院第11屆第1會期財政收支劃分法\n622791\t647763\t移送地檢署,你還是有一定的角色喔!新平三法主管機關,你內部要懲處,要調移動單位,而且新規法你要通知這個事情發生在哪裡?臺北市就要通知臺北市政府啊!勞工局要介入啊!不是只有移送給警察局,你就完全沒事情欸!我們機關內部行政懲處委還有新平審議委員會已經都開始啟動啦!\n649520\t675290\t部長這件事情噢造成同仁對你你身為女性部長你處理的大家是非常失望所以我才會在你們同仁裡面內部一個網站上的論壇關注到新生論壇看到大家其實對於這件事情你處理身為女性吧大家是不滿的啦署長你應該知道我在說什麼啦部長可能沒有辦法掌握所有的狀況但是署長你應該知道我在說什麼我覺得\n677691\t678772\t收支劃分法修正草案、委員羅明才等23人分別擬具\n706072\t708485\t接著請李昆城、李委員質詢。\n","txt":"我請部長。請莊部長。謝謝部長。部長辛苦了。剛才聽到幾位委員的質詢,還有包括前幾天的質詢,25年沒有修的財劃法。到今天為止,上一次,我想無論是過去的賴清德、賴市長,\n收支劃分法 財政收支劃分法 財政收支劃分法 財政收支劃分法\n收支劃分法、財政收支劃分法、財政收支劃分法、財政收支劃分法、財政收支劃分\n從今天這幾位委員質詢起來我聽到的感覺就是中央想要集權又要集錢剛才用說地方沒有共識所以沒辦法修過去我也曾聽到這個部長曾經提說修法沒有時間表我覺得你們在玩兩套策略\n只要擔任地方的縣市首長,無論是過去的賴市長,包括今天所有各縣不管是哪一個縣市執政,都認為財法法是應該要修的。你講到說修法沒有時間表,特別剛才講到說沒有共識,我剛才也聽到其他委員提到說,你的共識指的是什麼?\n我們當然希望共識可以極小化、極大化少數一兩個或許有不同意見但是在立法院也好在行政院也好哪一個推出的版本幾乎很少說是百分之百百分之九十八、百分之九十七已經是不錯了\n要推到有共識要等到什麼時候我必須要講今天的財劃法25年沒有修的財劃法是一個不公不義又不仁的版本我為什麼這麼說部長你應該知道87%是國稅這個國稅包含鎮所稅、營業稅、關稅、鎮交稅\n這些都是大稅這些大稅過去幾年成長到百分之一百零四增加稅這幾年玩股票的人很多啊有漲幅的空間地方收到什麼地方收到地價稅、土地增值稅、房屋稅這些佔了總稅的百分之十三而已這些稅漲幅有限\n所以各縣市每年都嗷嗷待哺眼睛眼巴巴的看著行政院怎麼分我為什麼說這是一個不公不義又不仁的版本因為中央把肉多的都拿掉了剩下的地方稅留給地方政府它只有13%而且這13%房屋稅、地土地增值稅漲幅真的非常少\n但是我們地方要負責的是什麼?包括人事費的調漲第一年可能中央出第二年中央還不一定百分之百出我們的交通建設我們的社會安全網要地方來支付我們的淨零減碳或者是警政治安還有委辦事項地方知識委辦事項這些項目這幾年不漲\n委辦事項的項目越來越多。」所以我剛才提到這是一個不公不義又不仁的版本現在的財劃法它是到了一個非說不得的地步有人說這個是藍白何來包圍中央哪來的藍白何來包圍中央過去民進黨\n縣市首長﹖我不知道今天的黃偉哲幾位縣市首長是不是也認為採訪法不要修了我希望不要換了一個位置換了一個腦袋因為過去的賴市長也認為應該要修好我們來看一張圖中央挹注地方財源的狀況我們來看下一張\n有一個圖是111年我以這張圖來看我們現在中央益助財源有分兩大塊一塊是統籌分配稅一塊是補助的收入分為一般補助跟專案的收入以台北市為例大家都說台北市統籌分配稅款最多495億那又加上一個補助的收入179億\n合加起來在111年台北市總共收到674億\n那我們以台中、高雄來看好了,台中的統籌分配稅管在民國111年是425億,但是它的高雄的補助收入卻達到437億,所以它的總合計中央給它的錢達到862億,所以它的排序是第一。我剛剛為什麼說地方嗷嗷呆不要看中央臉色,以補助收入來說,\n收支劃分法．一、繼續審查財政收支劃分法．一、繼續審查財政收支劃分法．一、繼續審查財政收支劃分法．一、\n但是如果不是一個穩健的地方財源收入長期的中央藝術地方財源收入的話他就不敢大刀闊斧的去做長遠的地方建設的規劃我想部長你非常清楚我在講什麼所以我必須還是要提部長時間表到底有沒有如果沒有共識你還是不打算修嗎\n委員沒有共識的話立法怎麼會通過就如過去五度的提出修法版本但是為什麼沒有完成立法的修法的程序就是因為沒有共識所以我們這個部分現在就是一直在做這個努力希望把\n努力7年了,不管你是在位幾年,不管你是在這個位置上幾年,努力幾年了。您也對台北市非常的關心這個部分提出來,因為各地方政府或者也好都會對他自己所獲得的財源來做努力跟爭取,這個部分我們都完全理解。\n收支劃分法：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查�\n收支劃分法修正草案：一、繼續審查〈一、繼續審查〉\n有關於在5月16號的這個關務署的偷拍的事件,針孔偷拍的事件,你們後面到底打算怎麼處理?\n收支劃分法修正草案：一、繼續審查\n收支劃分法：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：\n財政收支劃分法：立法院第11屆第12會期財政收支劃分法\n都應該通知地方主管機關而且要懲戒。」我請問你懲戒的結果出來了嗎?出來了。什麼時候出來的?上個禮拜我們經過...那是因為媒體揭露之後你們才出來,好,你不用回答我。那是因為媒體揭露之後才出來,好,我們來看下一張,你原來要把它調到了大位,部長。\n我們來看下一張,那是上個禮拜審界出來,來給我下一張你們原來要給他調的單位是業務一科最後調任的單位還是在業務一科還是在一個辦公室裡後來是因為媒體揭露了之後你才把他從原來的逐微分官調到這個新單位的什麼業務一組\n收支劃分法：立法院第11屆第1會期財政收支劃分法\n移送地檢署,你還是有一定的角色喔!新平三法主管機關,你內部要懲處,要調移動單位,而且新規法你要通知這個事情發生在哪裡?臺北市就要通知臺北市政府啊!勞工局要介入啊!不是只有移送給警察局,你就完全沒事情欸!我們機關內部行政懲處委還有新平審議委員會已經都開始啟動啦!\n部長這件事情噢造成同仁對你你身為女性部長你處理的大家是非常失望所以我才會在你們同仁裡面內部一個網站上的論壇關注到新生論壇看到大家其實對於這件事情你處理身為女性吧大家是不滿的啦署長你應該知道我在說什麼啦部長可能沒有辦法掌握所有的狀況但是署長你應該知道我在說什麼我覺得\n收支劃分法修正草案、委員羅明才等23人分別擬具\n接著請李昆城、李委員質詢。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.472 --> 00:03.933\n我請部長。請莊部長。謝謝部長。部長辛苦了。剛才聽到幾位委員的質詢,還有包括前幾天的質詢,25年沒有修的財劃法。到今天為止,上一次,我想無論是過去的賴清德、賴市長,\n\n00:27.858 --> 00:29.559\n收支劃分法財政收支劃分法財政收支劃分法財政收支劃分法\n\n00:50.077 --> 00:52.239\n收支劃分法、財政收支劃分法、財政收支劃分法、財政收支劃分法、財政收支劃分\n\n01:05.613 --> 01:23.141\n從今天這幾位委員質詢起來我聽到的感覺就是中央想要集權又要集錢剛才用說地方沒有共識所以沒辦法修過去我也曾聽到這個部長曾經提說修法沒有時間表我覺得你們在玩兩套策略\n\n01:28.075 --> 01:50.050\n只要擔任地方的縣市首長,無論是過去的賴市長,包括今天所有各縣不管是哪一個縣市執政,都認為財法法是應該要修的。你講到說修法沒有時間表,特別剛才講到說沒有共識,我剛才也聽到其他委員提到說,你的共識指的是什麼?\n\n01:50.973 --> 02:10.243\n我們當然希望共識可以極小化、極大化少數一兩個或許有不同意見但是在立法院也好在行政院也好哪一個推出的版本幾乎很少說是百分之百百分之九十八、百分之九十七已經是不錯了\n\n02:11.857 --> 02:25.389\n要推到有共識要等到什麼時候我必須要講今天的財劃法25年沒有修的財劃法是一個不公不義又不仁的版本我為什麼這麼說部長你應該知道87%是國稅這個國稅包含鎮所稅、營業稅、關稅、鎮交稅\n\n02:35.078 --> 03:00.916\n這些都是大稅這些大稅過去幾年成長到百分之一百零四增加稅這幾年玩股票的人很多啊有漲幅的空間地方收到什麼地方收到地價稅、土地增值稅、房屋稅這些佔了總稅的百分之十三而已這些稅漲幅有限\n\n03:02.170 --> 03:27.409\n所以各縣市每年都嗷嗷待哺眼睛眼巴巴的看著行政院怎麼分我為什麼說這是一個不公不義又不仁的版本因為中央把肉多的都拿掉了剩下的地方稅留給地方政府它只有13%而且這13%房屋稅、地土地增值稅漲幅真的非常少\n\n03:29.244 --> 03:54.370\n但是我們地方要負責的是什麼?包括人事費的調漲第一年可能中央出第二年中央還不一定百分之百出我們的交通建設我們的社會安全網要地方來支付我們的淨零減碳或者是警政治安還有委辦事項地方知識委辦事項這些項目這幾年不漲\n\n03:56.004 --> 04:18.223\n委辦事項的項目越來越多。」所以我剛才提到這是一個不公不義又不仁的版本現在的財劃法它是到了一個非說不得的地步有人說這個是藍白何來包圍中央哪來的藍白何來包圍中央過去民進黨\n\n04:20.303 --> 04:36.616\n縣市首長﹖我不知道今天的黃偉哲幾位縣市首長是不是也認為採訪法不要修了我希望不要換了一個位置換了一個腦袋因為過去的賴市長也認為應該要修好我們來看一張圖中央挹注地方財源的狀況我們來看下一張\n\n04:39.929 --> 05:04.809\n有一個圖是111年我以這張圖來看我們現在中央益助財源有分兩大塊一塊是統籌分配稅一塊是補助的收入分為一般補助跟專案的收入以台北市為例大家都說台北市統籌分配稅款最多495億那又加上一個補助的收入179億\n\n05:06.823 --> 05:10.313\n合加起來在111年台北市總共收到674億\n\n05:13.106 --> 05:38.832\n那我們以台中、高雄來看好了,台中的統籌分配稅管在民國111年是425億,但是它的高雄的補助收入卻達到437億,所以它的總合計中央給它的錢達到862億,所以它的排序是第一。我剛剛為什麼說地方嗷嗷呆不要看中央臉色,以補助收入來說,\n\n05:40.472 --> 05:42.794\n收支劃分法．一、繼續審查財政收支劃分法．一、繼續審查財政收支劃分法．一、繼續審查財政收支劃分法．一、\n\n06:05.097 --> 06:23.240\n但是如果不是一個穩健的地方財源收入長期的中央藝術地方財源收入的話他就不敢大刀闊斧的去做長遠的地方建設的規劃我想部長你非常清楚我在講什麼所以我必須還是要提部長時間表到底有沒有如果沒有共識你還是不打算修嗎\n\n06:33.049 --> 06:47.623\n委員沒有共識的話立法怎麼會通過就如過去五度的提出修法版本但是為什麼沒有完成立法的修法的程序就是因為沒有共識所以我們這個部分現在就是一直在做這個努力希望把\n\n06:48.483 --> 07:05.374\n努力7年了,不管你是在位幾年,不管你是在這個位置上幾年,努力幾年了。您也對台北市非常的關心這個部分提出來,因為各地方政府或者也好都會對他自己所獲得的財源來做努力跟爭取,這個部分我們都完全理解。\n\n07:05.794 --> 07:08.355\n收支劃分法：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查．一、繼續審查�\n\n07:28.783 --> 07:30.325\n收支劃分法修正草案：一、繼續審查〈一、繼續審查〉\n\n07:52.907 --> 08:01.772\n有關於在5月16號的這個關務署的偷拍的事件,針孔偷拍的事件,你們後面到底打算怎麼處理?\n\n08:03.015 --> 08:03.676\n收支劃分法修正草案：一、繼續審查\n\n08:24.531 --> 08:25.572\n收支劃分法：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：一、繼續審查：\n\n08:53.665 --> 08:54.266\n財政收支劃分法：立法院第11屆第12會期財政收支劃分法\n\n09:21.600 --> 09:28.065\n都應該通知地方主管機關而且要懲戒。」我請問你懲戒的結果出來了嗎?出來了。什麼時候出來的?上個禮拜我們經過...那是因為媒體揭露之後你們才出來,好,你不用回答我。那是因為媒體揭露之後才出來,好,我們來看下一張,你原來要把它調到了大位,部長。\n\n09:42.967 --> 10:03.841\n我們來看下一張,那是上個禮拜審界出來,來給我下一張你們原來要給他調的單位是業務一科最後調任的單位還是在業務一科還是在一個辦公室裡後來是因為媒體揭露了之後你才把他從原來的逐微分官調到這個新單位的什麼業務一組\n\n10:06.124 --> 10:08.665\n收支劃分法：立法院第11屆第1會期財政收支劃分法\n\n10:22.791 --> 10:47.763\n移送地檢署,你還是有一定的角色喔!新平三法主管機關,你內部要懲處,要調移動單位,而且新規法你要通知這個事情發生在哪裡?臺北市就要通知臺北市政府啊!勞工局要介入啊!不是只有移送給警察局,你就完全沒事情欸!我們機關內部行政懲處委還有新平審議委員會已經都開始啟動啦!\n\n10:49.520 --> 11:15.290\n部長這件事情噢造成同仁對你你身為女性部長你處理的大家是非常失望所以我才會在你們同仁裡面內部一個網站上的論壇關注到新生論壇看到大家其實對於這件事情你處理身為女性吧大家是不滿的啦署長你應該知道我在說什麼啦部長可能沒有辦法掌握所有的狀況但是署長你應該知道我在說什麼我覺得\n\n11:17.691 --> 11:18.772\n收支劃分法修正草案、委員羅明才等23人分別擬具\n\n11:46.072 --> 11:48.485\n接著請李昆城、李委員質詢。\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.472,"end":3.933,"text":"我請部長。請莊部長。謝謝部長。部長辛苦了。剛才聽到幾位委員的質詢,還有包括前幾天的質詢,25年沒有修的財劃法。到今天為止,上一次,我想無論是過去的賴清德、賴市長,"},{"start":27.858,"end":29.559,"text":"收支劃分法 財政收支劃分法 財政收支劃分法 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