{"id":153452,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153452","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2dd358c888e2c707c12059799fe7686959c493b59145da8feb068d4dbfff0b0cf9b9c0bced22f4a35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐富癸","委員發言時間":"10:27:40 - 10:34:49","影片長度":"00:07:09","會議時間":"2024-06-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、法務部、個人資料保護委員會籌備處及中華電信股份有限公司就「國家機器以手機定位、分析個資特性等方式侵犯人民權益」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【6月3日及6日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-06-03","start_time":"2024-06-03T10:27:40+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-03T10:34:49+08:00","duration":429,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":551,"blocks":[["徐委員富癸：（10時27分）謝謝主席，我們有請數發部黃部長。"],["主席：好，部長請。"],["徐委員富癸：部長早安。"],["黃部長彥男：委員早。"],["徐委員富癸：部長，剛剛在專案報告時提到結語部分，亦即就技術層面而言，的確可能運用手機訊號分析用戶之個人資料，但除非同時取得所謂的基地臺服務之用戶號碼跟帳務、客戶資料庫的資料進行交叉比對，否則無法得知特定的年齡分布。是不是有這樣的狀況？"],["黃部長彥男：對，但是重點要去識別化，沒有錯。"],["徐委員富癸：請教部長，一般我們在什麼狀況下會做這樣的處理？"],["黃部長彥男：資料的應用，剛剛講數位經濟需要資料使用，基本上資料是可以有它的價值，做完去識別化以後，在法規允許之下，是可以做一些統計的分析跟處理。"],["徐委員富癸：部長，目前許多縣市在辦大型活動或一些商業行為時，都需要有大數據分析，他們可以依照相關規定向業者提出申請，但是有關個資保護部分，也是我們捍衛人權很重要的一個關鍵，到目前為止，我想從各部會首長到公務系統的同仁，大家應該都是依法行政，所以這部分我要另外再請教陳主委，以NCC現行機制，要如何查驗電信業者提供給外界的資料是否有去識別化？要怎麼做驗證？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：基本上，依據法律規定，電信業者都有所謂的個人資料安全維護計畫，針對這個維護計畫，我們會定期檢查，而且電信業者也必須內控處理，還有這部分在定型化契約裡也都有相關規定。"],["徐委員富癸：主委，因為現在最大的爭議就是大家一直在質疑這整個稽核的制度、對業者管控的部分到底有沒有落實，是不是有私底下洩密的狀況？這部分能不能再做一個具體說明？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我請我同仁把我們稽核的流程，還有他們電信業者得到國際認證的部分，跟委員說明一下。"],["黃處長天陽：報告委員，因為我們三大電信業者都是上市公司，而且是國際級的公司，目前NCC除了push他們朝向ISO認證以外，目前三大業者都有通過國際相關機構ISO或英國BSI，就是國際標準的一些認證，譬如說ISO27001等等，這些東西都是遵循國際的規範，將這個制度建立在他們整體的公司文化和內控機制上面，以上。"],["徐委員富癸：所以，我想我們的電信業者應該不會自打嘴巴，不會破壞他們自己的商譽。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：因為這個會有相關法律責任的議題……"],["徐委員富癸：對，因為現在是數位的時代，所以我們也是希望主委包含我們數位部，大家要來審慎面對這樣一個議題，這個議題不會今天在委員會問完就結束了，後續應該還會繼續再發酵，所以也趁今天在交通委員會的質詢時間，我們希望所有部會能夠做一個清楚的說明。","另外，針對外界一直在質疑，甚至我們在野黨委員一直在質疑選舉有被監控的機制，這部分是不是請NCC還有法務部能夠做一個具體的說明，到底有沒有這樣一個狀況？避免以訛傳訛，我們請一下次長。"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，法務部所主管的檢察官，只有就個案的電信紀錄，就個案上才有偵辦，經過法官允許調取票之後，才可以調取相關的電信紀錄，沒有通盤性的相關通信紀錄的分析跟資料庫，沒有！"],["徐委員富癸：對，所以不是外傳這樣子，大家都有什麼黑資料在那裡。另外，除了監控的部分，針對打詐，目前科偵法裡面並沒有納入所謂設備端的通訊監察──所謂俗稱的小木馬來進行犯罪嫌疑人的監控，請教數位部或NCC，目前是我們臺灣沒有能力開發這個設備端的通訊監察技術嗎？未來是不是有辦法來做改善？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，設備端監控的部分涉及到這個技術本身要有第三方來驗證跟技術純熟的部分，所以在國家還沒有這個技術，即第三方驗證的機制還沒齊備的狀況之下，法務部的科技偵查法木馬植入、木馬監控這部分，我們新的科技偵查法並沒有把它修法進去。"],["徐委員富癸：但是這個部分，我想我們還是一樣要跟外界說明清楚，畢竟大家都在關心這個議題。還有另外一個，針對非公務機關洩漏個資的情形不斷，包含像一些大型企業的公司都有這樣一個訊息，像華航、中華電信，即使再修法仍然產生個資外洩的情形，這部分我們相關的對應單位有沒有什麼樣的防範措施？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：報告委員，關於這個，比如以電信事業來講的話，如果有涉及到非公務機關洩漏個資，我們都會進行相關的裁罰，這個是電信公司必須要負責，如果說它所掌握的個資被非法使用或洩漏的話，必須依法去裁罰，我們有相關的案例。"],["徐委員富癸：好，謝謝。最後我再請教一下數位部黃部長，部長，上次本席在質詢的時候，一直提到我們屏東的數位發展落後的狀況，根據本席調查的資料，在112年的部分，像我們屏東縣完全都沒有一個數位發展成熟區，數位發展萌動區有17個，是全臺最多的，然而發展萌動區有103個，屏東就占了六分之一，針對這樣資訊落後的部分，我們有沒有一個什麼樣的精進作為？"],["黃部長彥男：我們一直在這方面平衡所謂的數位落差，還有用電信普及基金來做補助，我是不是請……還是我們事後再補資料給委員？"],["徐委員富癸：好，這點要特別再拜託一下部長，因為部長提到的三支箭裡面，我想對整個屏東地區來講，我們希望發展所謂的數位經濟之外，還有強化我們的數位功能，也有助於打詐的機制，這部分再麻煩部長多費心，謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：我們事後再補資料給委員，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝徐富癸委員的發言。","休息10分鐘，待會等陳素月委員質詢完畢，我們處理臨時提案，謝謝。","休息（10時34分）","繼續開會（10時46分）"],["主席：繼續開會，請各位就定位。","下一位請許委員智傑發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":380,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-15","speakers":["陳雪生","林沛祥","李昆澤","黃健豪","林國成","林俊憲","蔡其昌","魯明哲","徐富癸","許智傑","陳素月","羅智強","游顥","翁曉玲","何欣純","王鴻薇","徐巧芯","邱若華","吳宗憲","洪孟楷","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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\"是\", \"start\": 399.591, \"end\": 399.711, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 399.711, \"end\": 399.851, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 399.851, \"end\": 400.552, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 400.552, \"end\": 400.852, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 400.852, \"end\": 400.872, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"徐\", \"start\": 403.063, \"end\": 403.103, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"富\", \"start\": 403.103, \"end\": 403.263, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"癸\", \"start\": 403.263, \"end\": 403.283, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,255 --> 00:00:11,239\n好,謝謝主席。我們有請書發部黃部長。好,部長請。\n\n2\n00:00:21,477 --> 00:00:48,175\n部長早安部長剛剛本期就您在剛剛的專案報告裡面有提到一個結語的部分就是說就技術層面來講的確可能運用手機的訊號分析個人的資料但除非同時取得所謂基地台的號碼跟帳戶客戶資料庫的資料進行交叉比對否則無法得知特定的一個年齡的分布是不是有這樣的一個狀況\n\n3\n00:00:50,529 --> 00:01:15,499\n對,對。但是重點是就是要做去識別化,沒有錯。部長,那我請教一般我們在什麼狀況之下會做這樣的處理?那個資料的應用,因為剛剛講說我們數位經濟需要資料使用嘛。那基本上資料是可以有它的價值。那做完去識別化以後,在法規的允許之下是可以做一些統計的分析跟處理。\n\n4\n00:01:16,899 --> 00:01:33,989\n對部長因為我們現在目前我們許多的縣市他們所謂辦一個大型的活動或一些商業的行為都需要一個大數據分析那他們可以照相關規定來跟我們的業者提出申請嗎但是我想個資保護的部分也是我們這個捍衛人權很重要的一個關鍵那目前\n\n5\n00:01:35,269 --> 00:01:54,881\n為止我想我們從各部會首長到我們的公務同仁系統我想大家都在依法行政那所以這部分我們另外再請教一下那個陳主委的部分請教主委那我們NCC就現行的一個機制如何去查驗電信驗者提供給外界的資料是否有去識別化怎樣做驗證\n\n6\n00:01:55,681 --> 00:02:22,017\n我們基本上來講依法規定來講的話電信業者都有這個所謂的個人資料安全維護計畫這個維護計畫裡面那我們會定期的去檢查而且那個電信業者也必須去內控去處理還有我們的這個定型化企業裡面都有相關的規定對主委因為現在對這大的爭議就是大家一直在質疑我們到底這個整個集合的一個制度這個對業者的一個管控的部分到底有沒有落實\n\n7\n00:02:22,958 --> 00:02:34,759\n是不是有私底下洩密的一個狀況這部分能不能再做一個具體說明我請我通常把我們那個集合的那個流程還有那個他們電信業者得到那個國際認證的部分跟委員前面說明一下\n\n8\n00:02:36,855 --> 00:02:59,848\n報告委員,因為我們三大電信業者都上市公司,而且是國際級的公司目前三大業者,我們ACC除了push他們朝向ISO認證以外目前三大業者都有通過國際相關機構的ISO或英國的BSI就是國際標準的一些認證,比如說ISO27001等等等\n\n9\n00:03:00,868 --> 00:03:25,637\n這些東西都是遵循國際的規範將這個制度建立在他們整體的公司文化和內控機制上面以上所以我想我們的電信業者應該不會自打嘴巴不會破壞他們自己的商譽因為這個要有相關法律責任的議題對所以這部分因為我們現在是數位的時代所以我們也是希望我們諸位包含我們數位部大家要來審慎面對這樣的一個議題我想這個議題不會今天在委員會問就結束\n\n10\n00:03:30,319 --> 00:03:30,679\n徐富癸\n\n11\n00:04:01,971 --> 00:04:04,954\n對阿,所以不是外傳這樣子啦齁,大家都弄什麼歐洲料在那裡啦齁\n\n12\n00:04:24,845 --> 00:04:28,488\n目前是我們台灣沒有能力開發這個設備端的一個通訊監察技術嗎?未來是不是有辦法來做一個改善?\n\n13\n00:04:50,198 --> 00:05:10,255\n各位報告那設備端監控的部分那涉及到這個技術本身要有第三方來驗證跟技術成熟的部分所以在國家還沒有這個這方技術第三方驗證的機制還沒起被狀況之下法務部的就是科技政策法就是木馬植入的木馬監控這部分我們新的這個科技政策法並沒有把修法進去\n\n14\n00:05:11,476 --> 00:05:37,783\n但是這個部分我想我們還是一樣要跟外界說明清楚這畢竟這個大家都在關心這個議題還有另外一個針對我們非外界的公務機關這個洩漏各自的情形不斷包含像我們一些的大型的一個企業的公司都有這樣一個訊息像華航、中華電信即使在修法仍然產生各自外界的情形那這部分我們相關的對應單位我們有沒有什麼樣一個方法、一個措施\n\n15\n00:05:40,331 --> 00:05:56,322\n報告委員關於這個比如說以電信事業來講的話如果有涉及到非公務機關洩漏個資我們都會進行相關的裁罰這個是電信公司必須要負責如果說他所掌握的個資被非法使用或洩漏的話這個必須依法去裁罰我們有相關的案例\n\n16\n00:05:57,469 --> 00:06:21,798\n好謝謝那最後我再請教一下我們數位部黃部長部長上次本席在質詢的時候一直有提到我們屏東的這個數位發展落後的一個狀況那根據本席調查的資料我們在112年的部分像我們屏東縣完全都沒有所謂一個數位發展的一個成熟區那數位發展一個懵懂區有17個是全台最多的那另外就是\n\n17\n00:06:23,274 --> 00:06:40,872\n平東的那個發展的一個盲凍區有103個平東就占了六分之一那針對我們這樣一個資訊落後的部分我們有沒有什麼樣的一個精進的作為我們一直在這邊就做這個平衡這個所謂數位落差還有說用這個電信普及基金來做補助我是不是請那個是\n\n18\n00:06:43,063 --> 00:06:43,283\n徐富癸\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8255\t11239\t好,謝謝主席。我們有請書發部黃部長。好,部長請。\n21477\t48175\t部長早安部長剛剛本期就您在剛剛的專案報告裡面有提到一個結語的部分就是說就技術層面來講的確可能運用手機的訊號分析個人的資料但除非同時取得所謂基地台的號碼跟帳戶客戶資料庫的資料進行交叉比對否則無法得知特定的一個年齡的分布是不是有這樣的一個狀況\n50529\t75499\t對,對。但是重點是就是要做去識別化,沒有錯。部長,那我請教一般我們在什麼狀況之下會做這樣的處理?那個資料的應用,因為剛剛講說我們數位經濟需要資料使用嘛。那基本上資料是可以有它的價值。那做完去識別化以後,在法規的允許之下是可以做一些統計的分析跟處理。\n76899\t93989\t對部長因為我們現在目前我們許多的縣市他們所謂辦一個大型的活動或一些商業的行為都需要一個大數據分析那他們可以照相關規定來跟我們的業者提出申請嗎但是我想個資保護的部分也是我們這個捍衛人權很重要的一個關鍵那目前\n95269\t114881\t為止我想我們從各部會首長到我們的公務同仁系統我想大家都在依法行政那所以這部分我們另外再請教一下那個陳主委的部分請教主委那我們NCC就現行的一個機制如何去查驗電信驗者提供給外界的資料是否有去識別化怎樣做驗證\n115681\t142017\t我們基本上來講依法規定來講的話電信業者都有這個所謂的個人資料安全維護計畫這個維護計畫裡面那我們會定期的去檢查而且那個電信業者也必須去內控去處理還有我們的這個定型化企業裡面都有相關的規定對主委因為現在對這大的爭議就是大家一直在質疑我們到底這個整個集合的一個制度這個對業者的一個管控的部分到底有沒有落實\n142958\t154759\t是不是有私底下洩密的一個狀況這部分能不能再做一個具體說明我請我通常把我們那個集合的那個流程還有那個他們電信業者得到那個國際認證的部分跟委員前面說明一下\n156855\t179848\t報告委員,因為我們三大電信業者都上市公司,而且是國際級的公司目前三大業者,我們ACC除了push他們朝向ISO認證以外目前三大業者都有通過國際相關機構的ISO或英國的BSI就是國際標準的一些認證,比如說ISO27001等等等\n180868\t205637\t這些東西都是遵循國際的規範將這個制度建立在他們整體的公司文化和內控機制上面以上所以我想我們的電信業者應該不會自打嘴巴不會破壞他們自己的商譽因為這個要有相關法律責任的議題對所以這部分因為我們現在是數位的時代所以我們也是希望我們諸位包含我們數位部大家要來審慎面對這樣的一個議題我想這個議題不會今天在委員會問就結束\n210319\t210679\t徐富癸\n241971\t244954\t對阿,所以不是外傳這樣子啦齁,大家都弄什麼歐洲料在那裡啦齁\n264845\t268488\t目前是我們台灣沒有能力開發這個設備端的一個通訊監察技術嗎?未來是不是有辦法來做一個改善?\n290198\t310255\t各位報告那設備端監控的部分那涉及到這個技術本身要有第三方來驗證跟技術成熟的部分所以在國家還沒有這個這方技術第三方驗證的機制還沒起被狀況之下法務部的就是科技政策法就是木馬植入的木馬監控這部分我們新的這個科技政策法並沒有把修法進去\n311476\t337783\t但是這個部分我想我們還是一樣要跟外界說明清楚這畢竟這個大家都在關心這個議題還有另外一個針對我們非外界的公務機關這個洩漏各自的情形不斷包含像我們一些的大型的一個企業的公司都有這樣一個訊息像華航、中華電信即使在修法仍然產生各自外界的情形那這部分我們相關的對應單位我們有沒有什麼樣一個方法、一個措施\n340331\t356322\t報告委員關於這個比如說以電信事業來講的話如果有涉及到非公務機關洩漏個資我們都會進行相關的裁罰這個是電信公司必須要負責如果說他所掌握的個資被非法使用或洩漏的話這個必須依法去裁罰我們有相關的案例\n357469\t381798\t好 謝謝那最後我再請教一下我們數位部黃部長部長上次本席在質詢的時候一直有提到我們屏東的這個數位發展落後的一個狀況那根據本席調查的資料我們在112年的部分像我們屏東縣完全都沒有所謂一個數位發展的一個成熟區那數位發展一個懵懂區有17個是全台最多的那另外就是\n383274\t400872\t平東的那個發展的一個盲凍區有103個平東就占了六分之一那針對我們這樣一個資訊落後的部分我們有沒有什麼樣的一個精進的作為我們一直在這邊就做這個平衡這個所謂數位落差還有說用這個電信普及基金來做補助我是不是請那個是\n403063\t403283\t徐富癸\n","txt":"好,謝謝主席。我們有請書發部黃部長。好,部長請。\n部長早安部長剛剛本期就您在剛剛的專案報告裡面有提到一個結語的部分就是說就技術層面來講的確可能運用手機的訊號分析個人的資料但除非同時取得所謂基地台的號碼跟帳戶客戶資料庫的資料進行交叉比對否則無法得知特定的一個年齡的分布是不是有這樣的一個狀況\n對,對。但是重點是就是要做去識別化,沒有錯。部長,那我請教一般我們在什麼狀況之下會做這樣的處理?那個資料的應用,因為剛剛講說我們數位經濟需要資料使用嘛。那基本上資料是可以有它的價值。那做完去識別化以後,在法規的允許之下是可以做一些統計的分析跟處理。\n對部長因為我們現在目前我們許多的縣市他們所謂辦一個大型的活動或一些商業的行為都需要一個大數據分析那他們可以照相關規定來跟我們的業者提出申請嗎但是我想個資保護的部分也是我們這個捍衛人權很重要的一個關鍵那目前\n為止我想我們從各部會首長到我們的公務同仁系統我想大家都在依法行政那所以這部分我們另外再請教一下那個陳主委的部分請教主委那我們NCC就現行的一個機制如何去查驗電信驗者提供給外界的資料是否有去識別化怎樣做驗證\n我們基本上來講依法規定來講的話電信業者都有這個所謂的個人資料安全維護計畫這個維護計畫裡面那我們會定期的去檢查而且那個電信業者也必須去內控去處理還有我們的這個定型化企業裡面都有相關的規定對主委因為現在對這大的爭議就是大家一直在質疑我們到底這個整個集合的一個制度這個對業者的一個管控的部分到底有沒有落實\n是不是有私底下洩密的一個狀況這部分能不能再做一個具體說明我請我通常把我們那個集合的那個流程還有那個他們電信業者得到那個國際認證的部分跟委員前面說明一下\n報告委員,因為我們三大電信業者都上市公司,而且是國際級的公司目前三大業者,我們ACC除了push他們朝向ISO認證以外目前三大業者都有通過國際相關機構的ISO或英國的BSI就是國際標準的一些認證,比如說ISO27001等等等\n這些東西都是遵循國際的規範將這個制度建立在他們整體的公司文化和內控機制上面以上所以我想我們的電信業者應該不會自打嘴巴不會破壞他們自己的商譽因為這個要有相關法律責任的議題對所以這部分因為我們現在是數位的時代所以我們也是希望我們諸位包含我們數位部大家要來審慎面對這樣的一個議題我想這個議題不會今天在委員會問就結束\n徐富癸\n對阿,所以不是外傳這樣子啦齁,大家都弄什麼歐洲料在那裡啦齁\n目前是我們台灣沒有能力開發這個設備端的一個通訊監察技術嗎?未來是不是有辦法來做一個改善?\n各位報告那設備端監控的部分那涉及到這個技術本身要有第三方來驗證跟技術成熟的部分所以在國家還沒有這個這方技術第三方驗證的機制還沒起被狀況之下法務部的就是科技政策法就是木馬植入的木馬監控這部分我們新的這個科技政策法並沒有把修法進去\n但是這個部分我想我們還是一樣要跟外界說明清楚這畢竟這個大家都在關心這個議題還有另外一個針對我們非外界的公務機關這個洩漏各自的情形不斷包含像我們一些的大型的一個企業的公司都有這樣一個訊息像華航、中華電信即使在修法仍然產生各自外界的情形那這部分我們相關的對應單位我們有沒有什麼樣一個方法、一個措施\n報告委員關於這個比如說以電信事業來講的話如果有涉及到非公務機關洩漏個資我們都會進行相關的裁罰這個是電信公司必須要負責如果說他所掌握的個資被非法使用或洩漏的話這個必須依法去裁罰我們有相關的案例\n好 謝謝那最後我再請教一下我們數位部黃部長部長上次本席在質詢的時候一直有提到我們屏東的這個數位發展落後的一個狀況那根據本席調查的資料我們在112年的部分像我們屏東縣完全都沒有所謂一個數位發展的一個成熟區那數位發展一個懵懂區有17個是全台最多的那另外就是\n平東的那個發展的一個盲凍區有103個平東就占了六分之一那針對我們這樣一個資訊落後的部分我們有沒有什麼樣的一個精進的作為我們一直在這邊就做這個平衡這個所謂數位落差還有說用這個電信普及基金來做補助我是不是請那個是\n徐富癸\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.255 --> 00:11.239\n好,謝謝主席。我們有請書發部黃部長。好,部長請。\n\n00:21.477 --> 00:48.175\n部長早安部長剛剛本期就您在剛剛的專案報告裡面有提到一個結語的部分就是說就技術層面來講的確可能運用手機的訊號分析個人的資料但除非同時取得所謂基地台的號碼跟帳戶客戶資料庫的資料進行交叉比對否則無法得知特定的一個年齡的分布是不是有這樣的一個狀況\n\n00:50.529 --> 01:15.499\n對,對。但是重點是就是要做去識別化,沒有錯。部長,那我請教一般我們在什麼狀況之下會做這樣的處理?那個資料的應用,因為剛剛講說我們數位經濟需要資料使用嘛。那基本上資料是可以有它的價值。那做完去識別化以後,在法規的允許之下是可以做一些統計的分析跟處理。\n\n01:16.899 --> 01:33.989\n對部長因為我們現在目前我們許多的縣市他們所謂辦一個大型的活動或一些商業的行為都需要一個大數據分析那他們可以照相關規定來跟我們的業者提出申請嗎但是我想個資保護的部分也是我們這個捍衛人權很重要的一個關鍵那目前\n\n01:35.269 --> 01:54.881\n為止我想我們從各部會首長到我們的公務同仁系統我想大家都在依法行政那所以這部分我們另外再請教一下那個陳主委的部分請教主委那我們NCC就現行的一個機制如何去查驗電信驗者提供給外界的資料是否有去識別化怎樣做驗證\n\n01:55.681 --> 02:22.017\n我們基本上來講依法規定來講的話電信業者都有這個所謂的個人資料安全維護計畫這個維護計畫裡面那我們會定期的去檢查而且那個電信業者也必須去內控去處理還有我們的這個定型化企業裡面都有相關的規定對主委因為現在對這大的爭議就是大家一直在質疑我們到底這個整個集合的一個制度這個對業者的一個管控的部分到底有沒有落實\n\n02:22.958 --> 02:34.759\n是不是有私底下洩密的一個狀況這部分能不能再做一個具體說明我請我通常把我們那個集合的那個流程還有那個他們電信業者得到那個國際認證的部分跟委員前面說明一下\n\n02:36.855 --> 02:59.848\n報告委員,因為我們三大電信業者都上市公司,而且是國際級的公司目前三大業者,我們ACC除了push他們朝向ISO認證以外目前三大業者都有通過國際相關機構的ISO或英國的BSI就是國際標準的一些認證,比如說ISO27001等等等\n\n03:00.868 --> 03:25.637\n這些東西都是遵循國際的規範將這個制度建立在他們整體的公司文化和內控機制上面以上所以我想我們的電信業者應該不會自打嘴巴不會破壞他們自己的商譽因為這個要有相關法律責任的議題對所以這部分因為我們現在是數位的時代所以我們也是希望我們諸位包含我們數位部大家要來審慎面對這樣的一個議題我想這個議題不會今天在委員會問就結束\n\n03:30.319 --> 03:30.679\n徐富癸\n\n04:01.971 --> 04:04.954\n對阿,所以不是外傳這樣子啦齁,大家都弄什麼歐洲料在那裡啦齁\n\n04:24.845 --> 04:28.488\n目前是我們台灣沒有能力開發這個設備端的一個通訊監察技術嗎?未來是不是有辦法來做一個改善?\n\n04:50.198 --> 05:10.255\n各位報告那設備端監控的部分那涉及到這個技術本身要有第三方來驗證跟技術成熟的部分所以在國家還沒有這個這方技術第三方驗證的機制還沒起被狀況之下法務部的就是科技政策法就是木馬植入的木馬監控這部分我們新的這個科技政策法並沒有把修法進去\n\n05:11.476 --> 05:37.783\n但是這個部分我想我們還是一樣要跟外界說明清楚這畢竟這個大家都在關心這個議題還有另外一個針對我們非外界的公務機關這個洩漏各自的情形不斷包含像我們一些的大型的一個企業的公司都有這樣一個訊息像華航、中華電信即使在修法仍然產生各自外界的情形那這部分我們相關的對應單位我們有沒有什麼樣一個方法、一個措施\n\n05:40.331 --> 05:56.322\n報告委員關於這個比如說以電信事業來講的話如果有涉及到非公務機關洩漏個資我們都會進行相關的裁罰這個是電信公司必須要負責如果說他所掌握的個資被非法使用或洩漏的話這個必須依法去裁罰我們有相關的案例\n\n05:57.469 --> 06:21.798\n好謝謝那最後我再請教一下我們數位部黃部長部長上次本席在質詢的時候一直有提到我們屏東的這個數位發展落後的一個狀況那根據本席調查的資料我們在112年的部分像我們屏東縣完全都沒有所謂一個數位發展的一個成熟區那數位發展一個懵懂區有17個是全台最多的那另外就是\n\n06:23.274 --> 06:40.872\n平東的那個發展的一個盲凍區有103個平東就占了六分之一那針對我們這樣一個資訊落後的部分我們有沒有什麼樣的一個精進的作為我們一直在這邊就做這個平衡這個所謂數位落差還有說用這個電信普及基金來做補助我是不是請那個是\n\n06:43.063 --> 06:43.283\n徐富癸\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.255,"end":11.239,"text":"好,謝謝主席。我們有請書發部黃部長。好,部長請。"},{"start":21.477,"end":48.175,"text":"部長早安部長剛剛本期就您在剛剛的專案報告裡面有提到一個結語的部分就是說就技術層面來講的確可能運用手機的訊號分析個人的資料但除非同時取得所謂基地台的號碼跟帳戶客戶資料庫的資料進行交叉比對否則無法得知特定的一個年齡的分布是不是有這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":50.529,"end":75.499,"text":"對,對。但是重點是就是要做去識別化,沒有錯。部長,那我請教一般我們在什麼狀況之下會做這樣的處理?那個資料的應用,因為剛剛講說我們數位經濟需要資料使用嘛。那基本上資料是可以有它的價值。那做完去識別化以後,在法規的允許之下是可以做一些統計的分析跟處理。"},{"start":76.899,"end":93.989,"text":"對部長因為我們現在目前我們許多的縣市他們所謂辦一個大型的活動或一些商業的行為都需要一個大數據分析那他們可以照相關規定來跟我們的業者提出申請嗎但是我想個資保護的部分也是我們這個捍衛人權很重要的一個關鍵那目前"},{"start":95.269,"end":114.881,"text":"為止我想我們從各部會首長到我們的公務同仁系統我想大家都在依法行政那所以這部分我們另外再請教一下那個陳主委的部分請教主委那我們NCC就現行的一個機制如何去查驗電信驗者提供給外界的資料是否有去識別化怎樣做驗證"},{"start":115.681,"end":142.017,"text":"我們基本上來講依法規定來講的話電信業者都有這個所謂的個人資料安全維護計畫這個維護計畫裡面那我們會定期的去檢查而且那個電信業者也必須去內控去處理還有我們的這個定型化企業裡面都有相關的規定對主委因為現在對這大的爭議就是大家一直在質疑我們到底這個整個集合的一個制度這個對業者的一個管控的部分到底有沒有落實"},{"start":142.958,"end":154.759,"text":"是不是有私底下洩密的一個狀況這部分能不能再做一個具體說明我請我通常把我們那個集合的那個流程還有那個他們電信業者得到那個國際認證的部分跟委員前面說明一下"},{"start":156.855,"end":179.848,"text":"報告委員,因為我們三大電信業者都上市公司,而且是國際級的公司目前三大業者,我們ACC除了push他們朝向ISO認證以外目前三大業者都有通過國際相關機構的ISO或英國的BSI就是國際標準的一些認證,比如說ISO27001等等等"},{"start":180.868,"end":205.637,"text":"這些東西都是遵循國際的規範將這個制度建立在他們整體的公司文化和內控機制上面以上所以我想我們的電信業者應該不會自打嘴巴不會破壞他們自己的商譽因為這個要有相關法律責任的議題對所以這部分因為我們現在是數位的時代所以我們也是希望我們諸位包含我們數位部大家要來審慎面對這樣的一個議題我想這個議題不會今天在委員會問就結束"},{"start":210.319,"end":210.679,"text":"徐富癸"},{"start":241.971,"end":244.954,"text":"對阿,所以不是外傳這樣子啦齁,大家都弄什麼歐洲料在那裡啦齁"},{"start":264.845,"end":268.488,"text":"目前是我們台灣沒有能力開發這個設備端的一個通訊監察技術嗎?未來是不是有辦法來做一個改善?"},{"start":290.198,"end":310.255,"text":"各位報告那設備端監控的部分那涉及到這個技術本身要有第三方來驗證跟技術成熟的部分所以在國家還沒有這個這方技術第三方驗證的機制還沒起被狀況之下法務部的就是科技政策法就是木馬植入的木馬監控這部分我們新的這個科技政策法並沒有把修法進去"},{"start":311.476,"end":337.783,"text":"但是這個部分我想我們還是一樣要跟外界說明清楚這畢竟這個大家都在關心這個議題還有另外一個針對我們非外界的公務機關這個洩漏各自的情形不斷包含像我們一些的大型的一個企業的公司都有這樣一個訊息像華航、中華電信即使在修法仍然產生各自外界的情形那這部分我們相關的對應單位我們有沒有什麼樣一個方法、一個措施"},{"start":340.331,"end":356.322,"text":"報告委員關於這個比如說以電信事業來講的話如果有涉及到非公務機關洩漏個資我們都會進行相關的裁罰這個是電信公司必須要負責如果說他所掌握的個資被非法使用或洩漏的話這個必須依法去裁罰我們有相關的案例"},{"start":357.469,"end":381.798,"text":"好 謝謝那最後我再請教一下我們數位部黃部長部長上次本席在質詢的時候一直有提到我們屏東的這個數位發展落後的一個狀況那根據本席調查的資料我們在112年的部分像我們屏東縣完全都沒有所謂一個數位發展的一個成熟區那數位發展一個懵懂區有17個是全台最多的那另外就是"},{"start":383.274,"end":400.872,"text":"平東的那個發展的一個盲凍區有103個平東就占了六分之一那針對我們這樣一個資訊落後的部分我們有沒有什麼樣的一個精進的作為我們一直在這邊就做這個平衡這個所謂數位落差還有說用這個電信普及基金來做補助我是不是請那個是"},{"start":403.063,"end":403.283,"text":"徐富癸"}]}}}}