{"id":153459,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153459","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2dd358c888e2c7079a6422e1e2d9f7d059c493b59145da8feb068d4dbfff0b0cf522f85420393ee15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"翁曉玲","委員發言時間":"11:31:19 - 11:39:44","影片長度":"00:08:25","會議時間":"2024-06-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、法務部、個人資料保護委員會籌備處及中華電信股份有限公司就「國家機器以手機定位、分析個資特性等方式侵犯人民權益」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【6月3日及6日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-06-03","start_time":"2024-06-03T11:31:19+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-03T11:39:44+08:00","duration":505,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":875,"blocks":[["翁委員曉玲：（11時31分）謝謝主席，主席辛苦了，有請陳主委。"],["主席：陳主委請。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員好。"],["翁委員曉玲：陳主委，從王義川事件，我想這件事情其實凸顯了現在管理電信事業的主管機關NCC，似乎在電信事業的大數據分析以及其利用上面的管理出現了問題，我想請教一下，三大電信公司販賣人流分析服務的這件事情你是不是知悉，他們的確有在這麼做？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這是行之有年的事情。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，行之有年的事情，很好。人流分析的服務包含哪些項目？基本上包含了用戶的基本資料、數位通路足跡、傳統電信數據和行動通訊足跡，以及還可以幫有需求的企業客製化提供特定的資訊。大家看看，用戶的基本資料包含了年齡、性別、興趣、手機型號、信用程度；數位通路足跡包含所有瀏覽過的網頁；行動通訊足跡包含所停留的地點；甚至還可以客製化業者的要求。到底現在的三大電信業者有沒有在做？事實上當然是有，而且他們可能已經做好幾年了。","看看中華電信，他們在自己網頁上面所提供的相關資訊，中華電信的AI大數據應用產品，裡面有人潮客群分析平臺，它告訴你，它可以蒐集多少的數據資料。接下來大家看一看中華電信可以做到什麼程度，它可以去進行客群分析，包含現在的族群是本國人還是大陸人還是外國人，其人潮分析的區域是在哪一個區域，它都可以做到非常精準。不僅如此，我們再看看遠傳，它也提供相關的人潮大數據分析，它還可以精準到客戶喜歡什麼樣的手機品牌，其年齡層是屬於什麼樣的階級等等。這樣的大數據分析，依照現在電信管理法的角度來講，這樣的作法合理嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：報告委員，很多的大數據分析其實已經不是在電信管理法的處理範圍了，很多東西已經變成數據利用相關法規所規範的問題了。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，所以NCC都沒有責任？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：不是沒有責任，而是以這個部分來講的話，為什麼說我們管的就是個資保護這一塊，這是一定要落實的，而大數據這個部分，當然以業者來講的話，它如果有逾越了比如去識別化的這些要求或是不可回逆的要求，當然要……"],["翁委員曉玲：好，瞭解。我們看一下，不僅是業者有這個需求，內政部也是，他們做了電信信令人口統計資料，這都是運用基地臺的訊號，可以進行非常廣泛的、各式各樣的資訊分析，民間組織也可以依自身需求，彈性調整指標權重。大家知道嗎？內政部的電信信令人口統計資料還可以對外收費，也就是當時這些電信信令基於公共利益或公共政策而做的這些統計資料還可以對外販售。請問，被蒐集資料的電信用戶知道這件事情嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：以相關的這些規定來講的話，比如我們的定型化契約裡面都有要求所要處理的……"],["翁委員曉玲：我們現在看到在電信用戶個資保護條款裡面，最主要的法律就是電信管理法的第九條，電信事業必須要保存電信用戶所產生的通信紀錄以及帳務紀錄，並且要給予一定的保密，違反的話還有重罰。在相關的個資保護條款裡面，我必須要說NCC怠惰，嚴重的違法失職，大家看看消保會在101年時修正的行動通信網路業務服務契約範本，裡面有清楚提到電信業者對所掌握的電信用戶相關資料負有保密義務，而且不得對第三人揭露。這個條文到現在為止也沒有修，所以我們現在看到所有電信公司的相關服務契約裡面的保密條款寫得非常非常簡單，對於所謂的去識別化這件事情，是誰來認定去識別化的資訊是否已經達標、是否符合個資保護法以及GDPR等等的相關法規？是由業者自己說了算嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：報告委員，基本上我們也會要求業者要依照他們的個資維護計畫去處理。"],["翁委員曉玲：我要講，這就是NCC怠惰，電信業者是你們所監理的，你們要求他們要善盡保護電信用戶個資與相關權益，可是在過去這段時間裡面，你們根本沒有修相關的服務契約，而且民眾到底是否知道他們自己的資料已經被用來分析，以及民眾是否應該要有相關的權利可以選擇退出這些數據分析計畫？你們無作為……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有，這個在……"],["翁委員曉玲：我必須說你們無作為……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：在相關的定型化契約裡面……"],["翁委員曉玲：我看過你們的電信……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：處理、利用、蒐集這些應該都有跟當事人告知。"],["翁委員曉玲：都有告知？那是非常抽象模糊的，請問在座的各位，你們知道你們有哪些資訊是被電信事業所使用嗎？以及他們蒐集資料之後，他們是怎麼樣的去再利用嗎？我們一般的老百姓、一般的電信用戶是完全無所知，而您擔任了NCC主委6年、委員8年，整個NCC看起來在這方面是沒有作為的，本席感到非常地遺憾。所以……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有，我們在個資保護，另外跟所謂的數據應用服務的……"],["翁委員曉玲：不要把這些事情……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這個我們都有處理了。"],["翁委員曉玲：不要把這些問題都丟到個資法，你們是電信事業的主管機關……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：對啊！這個是個資……"],["翁委員曉玲：電信管理法裡面就有要求……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：有。"],["翁委員曉玲：而你們沒有根據個資法去要求電信事業要善加做到去識別化……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這個我們都有，有、有、有，我們有處理啦！"],["翁委員曉玲：去識別化不是由電信業者自己單方來認定什麼樣的資訊去識別化……"],["黃副處長天陽：報告委員，我補充一下，現在因為電信管理法實施以後，我們都已經有督導電信業者來修訂相關的消費者保護契約及定型化契約的規範，而最新版本是在第三十七條，我們都有要求請電信事業恪遵個資保護法的相關規定。另外剛才委員所提到的，消費者可以選擇退出。"],["翁委員曉玲：所以他們認為他們有遵守了規定，你們就認為他們做到了嗎？沒有一個查核的機制……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：所以我們有稽核制度啊！"],["翁委員曉玲：電信業者就是球員兼裁判，認為哪些資訊是去識別化……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們有外部稽核，也有內控機制，都有。"],["翁委員曉玲：他們說了算嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有、沒有，我們本來每一年都有外部稽核機制存在。"],["黃副處長天陽：每一年都有稽核。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：對。"],["翁委員曉玲：是，我有看到你們的稽核機制，計畫之抽象、之模糊，根本沒有把我們剛剛講的那些現在電信業者所進行的人流分析數據列為查核的指標。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：應用服務的類型非常多種，但是那個我們要去處理啦！"],["翁委員曉玲：總之，剛剛已經有臨時提案了，希望你們要就相關的作法進行完整的報告。"],["主席：好啦！主委，你們就虛心接受嘛！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：對，我們……"],["主席：他也是NCC委員出來的啊！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：所以我們跟委員說明清楚啊！"],["主席：他當然很清楚嘛！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：是、是、是。"],["主席：你們一定有做不好的地方。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們會檢討改進，謝謝。"],["主席：你們虛心接受嘛！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：好，謝謝。"],["主席：檢討改進嘛，好不好？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝翁曉玲委員。","下一位請何欣純委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":380,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-15","speakers":["陳雪生","林沛祥","李昆澤","黃健豪","林國成","林俊憲","蔡其昌","魯明哲","徐富癸","許智傑","陳素月","羅智強","游顥","翁曉玲","何欣純","王鴻薇","徐巧芯","邱若華","吳宗憲","洪孟楷","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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\"為\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 471.784, \"end\": 471.804, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 471.804, \"end\": 471.824, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 471.824, \"end\": 472.004, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 472.004, \"end\": 472.024, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 481.636, \"end\": 481.956, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"翁\", \"start\": 481.956, \"end\": 482.136, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"曉\"}, {\"word\": \"玲\", \"start\": 482.136, \"end\": 482.256, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 482.256, \"end\": 482.276, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,151 --> 00:00:00,291\n陳主委請\n\n2\n00:00:25,164 --> 00:00:53,130\n陳書偉我想就是從王逸川事件的這件事情其實凸顯了就是我們現在主管機關這個管理電信事業主管機關NCC似乎在電信事業的大數據分析以及它的利用上面的管理出現了問題來請下一頁我想請教一下三大電信公司販賣人流分析服務的這件事情是不是您知悉他們的確有在這麼做這是行之有你的事情\n\n3\n00:00:53,710 --> 00:01:18,511\n行之永年的事情很好那人流分析的服務包含哪些項目基本上包含了用戶的基本資料數位通路足跡傳統電信數據和行動通信足跡以及還可以幫這個有需求的企業可以做客製化的提供特定的資訊大家看看這個用戶的基本資料包含什麼\n\n4\n00:01:19,011 --> 00:01:47,830\n年齡、性別、興趣、手機型號、信用程度、數位、通路足跡、包含所有瀏覽過的網頁、行動通信足跡等等所停留的地點甚至還可以克制化業者的要求那麼我們到底現在的電信三大電信業者有沒有在做事實上當然是有而且他們可能已經做了好幾年了來請下頁看看中華電信他們在他們自己的網頁上面所\n\n5\n00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:59,755\n提供的相關的資訊中華電信AI大數據的應用產品然後裡面有人潮客群分析平台他告訴你他可以收集了有多少的數據資料來下一頁\n\n6\n00:02:03,496 --> 00:02:20,992\n接下來大家看一看中華電信可以做到什麼程度他可以去進行客群分析包含現在的這個族群他是本國人還是大陸人還是外國人他的人潮分析的區域是在哪一個區域他都可以做到的非常精準\n\n7\n00:02:22,455 --> 00:02:50,807\n不僅如此我們再看看這個遠傳遠傳呢他也提供相關的人潮的這個大數據分析他還可以精準到他喜歡什麼樣的這個手機的品牌那麼他的年齡層他是屬於什麼樣的這個階級等等這樣的大數據分析依照現在電信管理法的角度來講這樣的做法合理嗎\n\n8\n00:02:51,701 --> 00:02:52,703\n所以NCC都沒有責任\n\n9\n00:03:03,985 --> 00:03:04,085\n好,了解,來下頁\n\n10\n00:03:25,283 --> 00:03:43,964\n來我們看一下不僅是業者有這個需求內政部也是好他們做了電信性力的人口統計資料這都是運用基地台訊號可以進行非常廣泛的各式各樣的資訊的分析民間組織也可以依自身的需求彈性調整指標的權重在下頁大家知道嗎電信\n\n11\n00:03:45,846 --> 00:04:02,862\n內政部的電信信令人口統計資料還可以對外收費也就是說當時這些電信信令他是基於公共利益或是公共政策而做的這些統計資料還可以對外販售請問被收集資料的電信用戶知道這件事情嗎?\n\n12\n00:04:03,809 --> 00:04:09,893\n我們這個相關的這些規定來講的話比如說我們的電信化企業裡面都有要求比如說在處理業務的部分\n\n13\n00:04:33,929 --> 00:04:47,659\nNCC怠惰嚴重的違法失職大家看看我們在消保會101年這個當時修正的行動通信網路業務服務契約版本你沒有清楚的講就是這個電信業者\n\n14\n00:04:49,520 --> 00:05:06,652\n他所掌握的電信用戶的相關資料附有保密義務而且不得對第三人揭露這個條文到現在為止也沒有修所以呢我們現在看到所有的電信公司的相關的服務契約裡面的保密條款寫得非常非常簡單\n\n15\n00:05:08,013 --> 00:05:29,611\n對於所謂的去識別化這件事情是誰來認定去識別化的資訊是否已經達標是否符合我們的個資保護法以及我們的這個世界以及我們的GDPR等等相關法規是由業者自己說的算嗎報告委員基本上來講的話我們有要求業者依照他們的那個所謂個資維護計畫去處理\n\n16\n00:05:32,486 --> 00:05:49,815\n我要講這就是NCC怠惰電信業者是你們所監理你們所要求這個他們要善盡保護電信用戶的個資這相關權益可是在過去這段時間裡面你們根本沒有修\n\n17\n00:05:52,268 --> 00:06:18,503\n這個相關的服務契約那麼以及對於民眾到底是不是知道他們自己的資料已經被用來分析以及民眾是不是應該要有相關的權利可以選擇退出這些數據分析計畫你們無作為在這個相關的電信化企業裡面來講話處理利用收集這個都有應該當時有告知那是非常抽象模糊請問在座的各位你們知道你們的\n\n18\n00:06:20,066 --> 00:06:33,991\n有哪些資訊是被電信事業所使用嗎以及他們所收集資料之後他們是怎麼樣的去再利用嗎我們一般的老百姓一般的電信用戶是完全無所知而您擔任了NCC主委6年委員8年\n\n19\n00:06:35,532 --> 00:06:43,296\n整個的NCC看起來在這方面是沒有作為的本席感到非常的遺憾了不要把這些事情不要把這些問題都丟到個資法你們是電信管理法的電信事業的主管機關電信管理法裡面就有要求而你們沒有根據個資法\n\n20\n00:06:56,082 --> 00:06:59,246\n去要求電信事業要善加做到要去識別化這去識別化不是由電信業者自己單方來認定什麼樣的這個資訊去識別化報告委員我們現在補充一下就是我們現在因為電信管理法實施以後我們都已經有督導電信業者來\n\n21\n00:07:15,363 --> 00:07:33,590\n我們修訂相關的消費者保護契約還有定型化契約的規範我們最新版本大概是在37條我們都有要求要請電信業課金而擱存各自保護法相關規定還有剛才委員有提到的第三方消費者可以退出可以選擇退出所以他們認為他們有遵守了規定你們就認為他們做到了嗎沒有一個查核的機制電信業者就是球員兼裁判認為哪些資訊是真實聯話他們說了算嗎\n\n22\n00:07:44,955 --> 00:07:52,024\n沒有沒有,我們本來就每一年都有外部集合機制存在,對是,我有看到你們的集合機制的那個計畫之抽象之模糊根本沒有把我們剛剛講的那些現在電信業者所進行的人流分析的數據列為是查核的\n\n23\n00:08:01,636 --> 00:08:02,276\n謝謝我們翁曉玲委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n151\t291\t陳主委請\n25164\t53130\t陳書偉我想就是從王逸川事件的這件事情其實凸顯了就是我們現在主管機關這個管理電信事業主管機關NCC似乎在電信事業的大數據分析以及它的利用上面的管理出現了問題來請下一頁我想請教一下三大電信公司販賣人流分析服務的這件事情是不是您知悉他們的確有在這麼做這是行之有你的事情\n53710\t78511\t行之永年的事情很好那人流分析的服務包含哪些項目基本上包含了用戶的基本資料數位通路足跡傳統電信數據和行動通信足跡以及還可以幫這個有需求的企業可以做客製化的提供特定的資訊大家看看這個用戶的基本資料包含什麼\n79011\t107830\t年齡、性別、興趣、手機型號、信用程度、數位、通路足跡、包含所有瀏覽過的網頁、行動通信足跡等等所停留的地點甚至還可以克制化業者的要求那麼我們到底現在的電信三大電信業者有沒有在做事實上當然是有而且他們可能已經做了好幾年了來請下頁看看中華電信他們在他們自己的網頁上面所\n109520\t119755\t提供的相關的資訊中華電信AI大數據的應用產品然後裡面有人潮客群分析平台他告訴你他可以收集了有多少的數據資料來下一頁\n123496\t140992\t接下來大家看一看中華電信可以做到什麼程度他可以去進行客群分析包含現在的這個族群他是本國人還是大陸人還是外國人他的人潮分析的區域是在哪一個區域他都可以做到的非常精準\n142455\t170807\t不僅如此我們再看看這個遠傳遠傳呢他也提供相關的人潮的這個大數據分析他還可以精準到他喜歡什麼樣的這個手機的品牌那麼他的年齡層他是屬於什麼樣的這個階級等等這樣的大數據分析依照現在電信管理法的角度來講這樣的做法合理嗎\n171701\t172703\t所以NCC都沒有責任\n183985\t184085\t好,了解,來下頁\n205283\t223964\t來我們看一下不僅是業者有這個需求內政部也是好他們做了電信性力的人口統計資料這都是運用基地台訊號可以進行非常廣泛的各式各樣的資訊的分析民間組織也可以依自身的需求彈性調整指標的權重在下頁大家知道嗎電信\n225846\t242862\t內政部的電信信令人口統計資料還可以對外收費也就是說當時這些電信信令他是基於公共利益或是公共政策而做的這些統計資料還可以對外販售請問被收集資料的電信用戶知道這件事情嗎?\n243809\t249893\t我們這個相關的這些規定來講的話比如說我們的電信化企業裡面都有要求比如說在處理業務的部分\n273929\t287659\tNCC怠惰嚴重的違法失職大家看看我們在消保會101年這個當時修正的行動通信網路業務服務契約版本你沒有清楚的講就是這個電信業者\n289520\t306652\t他所掌握的電信用戶的相關資料附有保密義務而且不得對第三人揭露這個條文到現在為止也沒有修所以呢我們現在看到所有的電信公司的相關的服務契約裡面的保密條款寫得非常非常簡單\n308013\t329611\t對於所謂的去識別化這件事情是誰來認定去識別化的資訊是否已經達標是否符合我們的個資保護法以及我們的這個世界以及我們的GDPR等等相關法規是由業者自己說的算嗎報告委員基本上來講的話我們有要求業者依照他們的那個所謂個資維護計畫去處理\n332486\t349815\t我要講這就是NCC怠惰電信業者是你們所監理你們所要求這個他們要善盡保護電信用戶的個資這相關權益可是在過去這段時間裡面你們根本沒有修\n352268\t378503\t這個相關的服務契約那麼以及對於民眾到底是不是知道他們自己的資料已經被用來分析以及民眾是不是應該要有相關的權利可以選擇退出這些數據分析計畫你們無作為在這個相關的電信化企業裡面來講話處理利用收集這個都有應該當時有告知那是非常抽象模糊請問在座的各位你們知道你們的\n380066\t393991\t有哪些資訊是被電信事業所使用嗎以及他們所收集資料之後他們是怎麼樣的去再利用嗎我們一般的老百姓一般的電信用戶是完全無所知而您擔任了NCC主委6年委員8年\n395532\t403296\t整個的NCC看起來在這方面是沒有作為的本席感到非常的遺憾了不要把這些事情不要把這些問題都丟到個資法你們是電信管理法的電信事業的主管機關電信管理法裡面就有要求而你們沒有根據個資法\n416082\t419246\t去要求電信事業要善加做到要去識別化這去識別化不是由電信業者自己單方來認定什麼樣的這個資訊去識別化報告委員我們現在補充一下就是我們現在因為電信管理法實施以後我們都已經有督導電信業者來\n435363\t453590\t我們修訂相關的消費者保護契約還有定型化契約的規範我們最新版本大概是在37條我們都有要求要請電信業課金而擱存各自保護法相關規定還有剛才委員有提到的第三方消費者可以退出可以選擇退出所以他們認為他們有遵守了規定你們就認為他們做到了嗎沒有一個查核的機制電信業者就是球員兼裁判認為哪些資訊是真實聯話他們說了算嗎\n464955\t472024\t沒有沒有,我們本來就每一年都有外部集合機制存在,對是,我有看到你們的集合機制的那個計畫之抽象之模糊根本沒有把我們剛剛講的那些現在電信業者所進行的人流分析的數據列為是查核的\n481636\t482276\t謝謝我們翁曉玲委員\n","txt":"陳主委請\n陳書偉我想就是從王逸川事件的這件事情其實凸顯了就是我們現在主管機關這個管理電信事業主管機關NCC似乎在電信事業的大數據分析以及它的利用上面的管理出現了問題來請下一頁我想請教一下三大電信公司販賣人流分析服務的這件事情是不是您知悉他們的確有在這麼做這是行之有你的事情\n行之永年的事情很好那人流分析的服務包含哪些項目基本上包含了用戶的基本資料數位通路足跡傳統電信數據和行動通信足跡以及還可以幫這個有需求的企業可以做客製化的提供特定的資訊大家看看這個用戶的基本資料包含什麼\n年齡、性別、興趣、手機型號、信用程度、數位、通路足跡、包含所有瀏覽過的網頁、行動通信足跡等等所停留的地點甚至還可以克制化業者的要求那麼我們到底現在的電信三大電信業者有沒有在做事實上當然是有而且他們可能已經做了好幾年了來請下頁看看中華電信他們在他們自己的網頁上面所\n提供的相關的資訊中華電信AI大數據的應用產品然後裡面有人潮客群分析平台他告訴你他可以收集了有多少的數據資料來下一頁\n接下來大家看一看中華電信可以做到什麼程度他可以去進行客群分析包含現在的這個族群他是本國人還是大陸人還是外國人他的人潮分析的區域是在哪一個區域他都可以做到的非常精準\n不僅如此我們再看看這個遠傳遠傳呢他也提供相關的人潮的這個大數據分析他還可以精準到他喜歡什麼樣的這個手機的品牌那麼他的年齡層他是屬於什麼樣的這個階級等等這樣的大數據分析依照現在電信管理法的角度來講這樣的做法合理嗎\n所以NCC都沒有責任\n好,了解,來下頁\n來我們看一下不僅是業者有這個需求內政部也是好他們做了電信性力的人口統計資料這都是運用基地台訊號可以進行非常廣泛的各式各樣的資訊的分析民間組織也可以依自身的需求彈性調整指標的權重在下頁大家知道嗎電信\n內政部的電信信令人口統計資料還可以對外收費也就是說當時這些電信信令他是基於公共利益或是公共政策而做的這些統計資料還可以對外販售請問被收集資料的電信用戶知道這件事情嗎?\n我們這個相關的這些規定來講的話比如說我們的電信化企業裡面都有要求比如說在處理業務的部分\nNCC怠惰嚴重的違法失職大家看看我們在消保會101年這個當時修正的行動通信網路業務服務契約版本你沒有清楚的講就是這個電信業者\n他所掌握的電信用戶的相關資料附有保密義務而且不得對第三人揭露這個條文到現在為止也沒有修所以呢我們現在看到所有的電信公司的相關的服務契約裡面的保密條款寫得非常非常簡單\n對於所謂的去識別化這件事情是誰來認定去識別化的資訊是否已經達標是否符合我們的個資保護法以及我們的這個世界以及我們的GDPR等等相關法規是由業者自己說的算嗎報告委員基本上來講的話我們有要求業者依照他們的那個所謂個資維護計畫去處理\n我要講這就是NCC怠惰電信業者是你們所監理你們所要求這個他們要善盡保護電信用戶的個資這相關權益可是在過去這段時間裡面你們根本沒有修\n這個相關的服務契約那麼以及對於民眾到底是不是知道他們自己的資料已經被用來分析以及民眾是不是應該要有相關的權利可以選擇退出這些數據分析計畫你們無作為在這個相關的電信化企業裡面來講話處理利用收集這個都有應該當時有告知那是非常抽象模糊請問在座的各位你們知道你們的\n有哪些資訊是被電信事業所使用嗎以及他們所收集資料之後他們是怎麼樣的去再利用嗎我們一般的老百姓一般的電信用戶是完全無所知而您擔任了NCC主委6年委員8年\n整個的NCC看起來在這方面是沒有作為的本席感到非常的遺憾了不要把這些事情不要把這些問題都丟到個資法你們是電信管理法的電信事業的主管機關電信管理法裡面就有要求而你們沒有根據個資法\n去要求電信事業要善加做到要去識別化這去識別化不是由電信業者自己單方來認定什麼樣的這個資訊去識別化報告委員我們現在補充一下就是我們現在因為電信管理法實施以後我們都已經有督導電信業者來\n我們修訂相關的消費者保護契約還有定型化契約的規範我們最新版本大概是在37條我們都有要求要請電信業課金而擱存各自保護法相關規定還有剛才委員有提到的第三方消費者可以退出可以選擇退出所以他們認為他們有遵守了規定你們就認為他們做到了嗎沒有一個查核的機制電信業者就是球員兼裁判認為哪些資訊是真實聯話他們說了算嗎\n沒有沒有,我們本來就每一年都有外部集合機制存在,對是,我有看到你們的集合機制的那個計畫之抽象之模糊根本沒有把我們剛剛講的那些現在電信業者所進行的人流分析的數據列為是查核的\n謝謝我們翁曉玲委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.151 --> 00:00.291\n陳主委請\n\n00:25.164 --> 00:53.130\n陳書偉我想就是從王逸川事件的這件事情其實凸顯了就是我們現在主管機關這個管理電信事業主管機關NCC似乎在電信事業的大數據分析以及它的利用上面的管理出現了問題來請下一頁我想請教一下三大電信公司販賣人流分析服務的這件事情是不是您知悉他們的確有在這麼做這是行之有你的事情\n\n00:53.710 --> 01:18.511\n行之永年的事情很好那人流分析的服務包含哪些項目基本上包含了用戶的基本資料數位通路足跡傳統電信數據和行動通信足跡以及還可以幫這個有需求的企業可以做客製化的提供特定的資訊大家看看這個用戶的基本資料包含什麼\n\n01:19.011 --> 01:47.830\n年齡、性別、興趣、手機型號、信用程度、數位、通路足跡、包含所有瀏覽過的網頁、行動通信足跡等等所停留的地點甚至還可以克制化業者的要求那麼我們到底現在的電信三大電信業者有沒有在做事實上當然是有而且他們可能已經做了好幾年了來請下頁看看中華電信他們在他們自己的網頁上面所\n\n01:49.520 --> 01:59.755\n提供的相關的資訊中華電信AI大數據的應用產品然後裡面有人潮客群分析平台他告訴你他可以收集了有多少的數據資料來下一頁\n\n02:03.496 --> 02:20.992\n接下來大家看一看中華電信可以做到什麼程度他可以去進行客群分析包含現在的這個族群他是本國人還是大陸人還是外國人他的人潮分析的區域是在哪一個區域他都可以做到的非常精準\n\n02:22.455 --> 02:50.807\n不僅如此我們再看看這個遠傳遠傳呢他也提供相關的人潮的這個大數據分析他還可以精準到他喜歡什麼樣的這個手機的品牌那麼他的年齡層他是屬於什麼樣的這個階級等等這樣的大數據分析依照現在電信管理法的角度來講這樣的做法合理嗎\n\n02:51.701 --> 02:52.703\n所以NCC都沒有責任\n\n03:03.985 --> 03:04.085\n好,了解,來下頁\n\n03:25.283 --> 03:43.964\n來我們看一下不僅是業者有這個需求內政部也是好他們做了電信性力的人口統計資料這都是運用基地台訊號可以進行非常廣泛的各式各樣的資訊的分析民間組織也可以依自身的需求彈性調整指標的權重在下頁大家知道嗎電信\n\n03:45.846 --> 04:02.862\n內政部的電信信令人口統計資料還可以對外收費也就是說當時這些電信信令他是基於公共利益或是公共政策而做的這些統計資料還可以對外販售請問被收集資料的電信用戶知道這件事情嗎?\n\n04:03.809 --> 04:09.893\n我們這個相關的這些規定來講的話比如說我們的電信化企業裡面都有要求比如說在處理業務的部分\n\n04:33.929 --> 04:47.659\nNCC怠惰嚴重的違法失職大家看看我們在消保會101年這個當時修正的行動通信網路業務服務契約版本你沒有清楚的講就是這個電信業者\n\n04:49.520 --> 05:06.652\n他所掌握的電信用戶的相關資料附有保密義務而且不得對第三人揭露這個條文到現在為止也沒有修所以呢我們現在看到所有的電信公司的相關的服務契約裡面的保密條款寫得非常非常簡單\n\n05:08.013 --> 05:29.611\n對於所謂的去識別化這件事情是誰來認定去識別化的資訊是否已經達標是否符合我們的個資保護法以及我們的這個世界以及我們的GDPR等等相關法規是由業者自己說的算嗎報告委員基本上來講的話我們有要求業者依照他們的那個所謂個資維護計畫去處理\n\n05:32.486 --> 05:49.815\n我要講這就是NCC怠惰電信業者是你們所監理你們所要求這個他們要善盡保護電信用戶的個資這相關權益可是在過去這段時間裡面你們根本沒有修\n\n05:52.268 --> 06:18.503\n這個相關的服務契約那麼以及對於民眾到底是不是知道他們自己的資料已經被用來分析以及民眾是不是應該要有相關的權利可以選擇退出這些數據分析計畫你們無作為在這個相關的電信化企業裡面來講話處理利用收集這個都有應該當時有告知那是非常抽象模糊請問在座的各位你們知道你們的\n\n06:20.066 --> 06:33.991\n有哪些資訊是被電信事業所使用嗎以及他們所收集資料之後他們是怎麼樣的去再利用嗎我們一般的老百姓一般的電信用戶是完全無所知而您擔任了NCC主委6年委員8年\n\n06:35.532 --> 06:43.296\n整個的NCC看起來在這方面是沒有作為的本席感到非常的遺憾了不要把這些事情不要把這些問題都丟到個資法你們是電信管理法的電信事業的主管機關電信管理法裡面就有要求而你們沒有根據個資法\n\n06:56.082 --> 06:59.246\n去要求電信事業要善加做到要去識別化這去識別化不是由電信業者自己單方來認定什麼樣的這個資訊去識別化報告委員我們現在補充一下就是我們現在因為電信管理法實施以後我們都已經有督導電信業者來\n\n07:15.363 --> 07:33.590\n我們修訂相關的消費者保護契約還有定型化契約的規範我們最新版本大概是在37條我們都有要求要請電信業課金而擱存各自保護法相關規定還有剛才委員有提到的第三方消費者可以退出可以選擇退出所以他們認為他們有遵守了規定你們就認為他們做到了嗎沒有一個查核的機制電信業者就是球員兼裁判認為哪些資訊是真實聯話他們說了算嗎\n\n07:44.955 --> 07:52.024\n沒有沒有,我們本來就每一年都有外部集合機制存在,對是,我有看到你們的集合機制的那個計畫之抽象之模糊根本沒有把我們剛剛講的那些現在電信業者所進行的人流分析的數據列為是查核的\n\n08:01.636 --> 08:02.276\n謝謝我們翁曉玲委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.151,"end":0.291,"text":"陳主委請"},{"start":25.164,"end":53.13,"text":"陳書偉我想就是從王逸川事件的這件事情其實凸顯了就是我們現在主管機關這個管理電信事業主管機關NCC似乎在電信事業的大數據分析以及它的利用上面的管理出現了問題來請下一頁我想請教一下三大電信公司販賣人流分析服務的這件事情是不是您知悉他們的確有在這麼做這是行之有你的事情"},{"start":53.71,"end":78.511,"text":"行之永年的事情很好那人流分析的服務包含哪些項目基本上包含了用戶的基本資料數位通路足跡傳統電信數據和行動通信足跡以及還可以幫這個有需求的企業可以做客製化的提供特定的資訊大家看看這個用戶的基本資料包含什麼"},{"start":79.011,"end":107.83,"text":"年齡、性別、興趣、手機型號、信用程度、數位、通路足跡、包含所有瀏覽過的網頁、行動通信足跡等等所停留的地點甚至還可以克制化業者的要求那麼我們到底現在的電信三大電信業者有沒有在做事實上當然是有而且他們可能已經做了好幾年了來請下頁看看中華電信他們在他們自己的網頁上面所"},{"start":109.52,"end":119.755,"text":"提供的相關的資訊中華電信AI大數據的應用產品然後裡面有人潮客群分析平台他告訴你他可以收集了有多少的數據資料來下一頁"},{"start":123.496,"end":140.992,"text":"接下來大家看一看中華電信可以做到什麼程度他可以去進行客群分析包含現在的這個族群他是本國人還是大陸人還是外國人他的人潮分析的區域是在哪一個區域他都可以做到的非常精準"},{"start":142.455,"end":170.807,"text":"不僅如此我們再看看這個遠傳遠傳呢他也提供相關的人潮的這個大數據分析他還可以精準到他喜歡什麼樣的這個手機的品牌那麼他的年齡層他是屬於什麼樣的這個階級等等這樣的大數據分析依照現在電信管理法的角度來講這樣的做法合理嗎"},{"start":171.701,"end":172.703,"text":"所以NCC都沒有責任"},{"start":183.985,"end":184.085,"text":"好,了解,來下頁"},{"start":205.283,"end":223.964,"text":"來我們看一下不僅是業者有這個需求內政部也是好他們做了電信性力的人口統計資料這都是運用基地台訊號可以進行非常廣泛的各式各樣的資訊的分析民間組織也可以依自身的需求彈性調整指標的權重在下頁大家知道嗎電信"},{"start":225.846,"end":242.862,"text":"內政部的電信信令人口統計資料還可以對外收費也就是說當時這些電信信令他是基於公共利益或是公共政策而做的這些統計資料還可以對外販售請問被收集資料的電信用戶知道這件事情嗎?"},{"start":243.809,"end":249.893,"text":"我們這個相關的這些規定來講的話比如說我們的電信化企業裡面都有要求比如說在處理業務的部分"},{"start":273.929,"end":287.659,"text":"NCC怠惰嚴重的違法失職大家看看我們在消保會101年這個當時修正的行動通信網路業務服務契約版本你沒有清楚的講就是這個電信業者"},{"start":289.52,"end":306.652,"text":"他所掌握的電信用戶的相關資料附有保密義務而且不得對第三人揭露這個條文到現在為止也沒有修所以呢我們現在看到所有的電信公司的相關的服務契約裡面的保密條款寫得非常非常簡單"},{"start":308.013,"end":329.611,"text":"對於所謂的去識別化這件事情是誰來認定去識別化的資訊是否已經達標是否符合我們的個資保護法以及我們的這個世界以及我們的GDPR等等相關法規是由業者自己說的算嗎報告委員基本上來講的話我們有要求業者依照他們的那個所謂個資維護計畫去處理"},{"start":332.486,"end":349.815,"text":"我要講這就是NCC怠惰電信業者是你們所監理你們所要求這個他們要善盡保護電信用戶的個資這相關權益可是在過去這段時間裡面你們根本沒有修"},{"start":352.268,"end":378.503,"text":"這個相關的服務契約那麼以及對於民眾到底是不是知道他們自己的資料已經被用來分析以及民眾是不是應該要有相關的權利可以選擇退出這些數據分析計畫你們無作為在這個相關的電信化企業裡面來講話處理利用收集這個都有應該當時有告知那是非常抽象模糊請問在座的各位你們知道你們的"},{"start":380.066,"end":393.991,"text":"有哪些資訊是被電信事業所使用嗎以及他們所收集資料之後他們是怎麼樣的去再利用嗎我們一般的老百姓一般的電信用戶是完全無所知而您擔任了NCC主委6年委員8年"},{"start":395.532,"end":403.296,"text":"整個的NCC看起來在這方面是沒有作為的本席感到非常的遺憾了不要把這些事情不要把這些問題都丟到個資法你們是電信管理法的電信事業的主管機關電信管理法裡面就有要求而你們沒有根據個資法"},{"start":416.082,"end":419.246,"text":"去要求電信事業要善加做到要去識別化這去識別化不是由電信業者自己單方來認定什麼樣的這個資訊去識別化報告委員我們現在補充一下就是我們現在因為電信管理法實施以後我們都已經有督導電信業者來"},{"start":435.363,"end":453.59,"text":"我們修訂相關的消費者保護契約還有定型化契約的規範我們最新版本大概是在37條我們都有要求要請電信業課金而擱存各自保護法相關規定還有剛才委員有提到的第三方消費者可以退出可以選擇退出所以他們認為他們有遵守了規定你們就認為他們做到了嗎沒有一個查核的機制電信業者就是球員兼裁判認為哪些資訊是真實聯話他們說了算嗎"},{"start":464.955,"end":472.024,"text":"沒有沒有,我們本來就每一年都有外部集合機制存在,對是,我有看到你們的集合機制的那個計畫之抽象之模糊根本沒有把我們剛剛講的那些現在電信業者所進行的人流分析的數據列為是查核的"},{"start":481.636,"end":482.276,"text":"謝謝我們翁曉玲委員"}]}}}}