{"id":153460,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153460","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2dd358c888e2c707a64c53fc019b427d59c493b59145da8feb068d4dbfff0b0c49d2664fa287e6015ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"何欣純","委員發言時間":"11:39:52 - 11:50:01","影片長度":"00:10:09","會議時間":"2024-06-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、法務部、個人資料保護委員會籌備處及中華電信股份有限公司就「國家機器以手機定位、分析個資特性等方式侵犯人民權益」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【6月3日及6日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-06-03","start_time":"2024-06-03T11:39:52+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-03T11:50:01+08:00","duration":609,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":931,"blocks":[["何委員欣純：（11時39分）謝謝陳雪生召委，先請數發部黃部長。"],["主席：請數發部黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["何委員欣純：黃部長好。我們今天都在談我們人民個資的保護，這是一定要的，也是政府一定要去維護的，畢竟這是人民的權益。","今天談的這個問題，不管是電信業者，或者是我接下來要談的第三方支付，我覺得保護人民的個資，維護人民的權益，不僅僅是政府，甚至是所有的民間企業都必須要做到，對不對？好，那我現在就來談問題出在哪裡，我們到現在都在談打詐、打詐，我們還是發現，即使到現在政府各單位動起來了要組一個打詐國家隊，結果詐騙仍然橫行，而其橫行最重要的是它金流的來源在哪裡，其中一個環節是在第三方支付。我們到現在，我這個是搜尋的，最近這些媒體有爆出來的個案，都看到這些詐騙集團的金流一樣是透過第三方支付變成是它的工具，我們現在雖然有說要強化監管，部長，就你認為，第三方支付現在是我們數位發展部要管理的嗎？你自己認為呢？"],["黃部長彥男：督導。"],["何委員欣純：你說督導，請問現在你的認知、態度？"],["黃部長彥男：跟委員報告，當然第三方支付是一個，的確是詐騙的一個管道，我們現在已經在做管理，包括能量登錄，從過去有一萬多家的所謂第三方支付業者，現在只有剩下五十幾家，只有五十幾家的好處，就是說我們就可以對它比較強度監管，他們如果申請……"],["何委員欣純：你說強度監管，等一下我會繼續問你這個，我跟你講，我說第三方支付淪為詐騙的溫床，對不對？你剛剛也講它可能是詐騙工具的一個項目，而且幾乎是橫行喔。對，你們說你們有源頭管理，現在有需要它登錄，但是我再提醒喔，你們還是被動的接受登錄，這個服務量能的登錄制度雖然是因應洗錢防制法，這是我們去年的修法，還有數位發展部有給予所謂的法遵指引，但是你們的量能我覺得還是不夠，為什麼不夠？源頭管理、阻斷詐騙，你們還做不到！你們的查核量能、效率很慢耶！","我舉一個例子，這個是你們給我的資料，我調出來的，剛剛部長也有講一萬多家，可以做第三方支付服務業的有一萬多家，現在登錄的，你們給我的資料原來是說54家，這54家裡面，其中有一家現在被廢止了，但這個被廢止的，我要跟你講這個時間差透露出我們數位發展部的效率慢、量能不夠。這一家叫做揚盛，揚盛原來在112年8月左右，你們就讓它通過登錄，你們讓它通過登錄之後，你們到什麼時候才去實地查核你知道嗎？隔一年的1月！從8月到隔一年的1月，總共將近五個月，你們實地查核才發現它有異樣，它搬離了現址，也沒有辦法再來補件，也沒辦法再來說明。你們一直到，這是你們自己發的新聞稿，一直到今年的3月才說要廢止它的登錄。部長，從你們給它通過的112年8月到今年的3月才廢止，這中間經過幾個月？"],["黃部長彥男：8月到3月，就已經有七個月了。"],["何委員欣純：對嘛，你都答不出來啦，半年多啦！"],["黃部長彥男：七個月、七個月。"],["何委員欣純：這半年多，七個月的空窗期，那請問一下，如果它繼續淪為詐騙集團所利用的第三方支付，請問發生了多少件了？騙了多少錢了？你知道嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：我們那個……"],["何委員欣純：你根本沒有辦法控管啊！"],["黃部長彥男：對，委員這個部分我們要改進啦，但是那個細節，我是不是請副署長報告？"],["何委員欣純：你們說要改進，問題是你們改進到現在是怎麼樣改進法？你們監管的量能到哪裡？監管的強度到哪裡？"],["林副署長俊秀：跟委員報告，揚盛這個案子是因為它有……"],["何委員欣純：我不是要針對個案，我要講的是你們的效率！"],["林副署長俊秀：我們一年大概會查二十幾家，其中有調查局來的……"],["何委員欣純：那一萬多家現在被動接受來登記了53家，所以……"],["林副署長俊秀：跟委員報告，我們查了之後，真正有在做的大概一百多家，100家左右。"],["何委員欣純：好，100家左右，我不管是100家或是120家，現在是53家有登錄啦，其他一半以上都還沒有登錄！"],["林副署長俊秀：跟委員報告，現在來申請的有八十幾家，五十幾家是通過的。"],["何委員欣純：這個數字落差是你自己講出來的喔，現在實際上有在做的大概100家、120家，其中有來登錄的是八十幾家，已經通過申請的大概是五十幾家，這三個數字之間，你總是要給人民一個交代吧！"],["林副署長俊秀：其中有10家沒有通過。"],["何委員欣純：那其他沒有來登錄的還可以再繼續進行第三方支付嗎？"],["林副署長俊秀：不行。"],["何委員欣純：不行嘛，對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：他去申請銀行不會給。"],["何委員欣純：我現在就要跟你講銀行的事情，部長，我希望你身為數位發展部的部長，在管理第三方支付、源頭管理上是重點，但是你的效率不彰，你的量能不夠。你現在看一下，這是我幫你爬梳出來的，數位發展部在管第三方支付、管業者，消費者被詐騙的是繳錢給第三方支付，他代收代付，代收代付，再付給這個賣家所謂在銀行的帳戶，這中間有一個關鍵重點，就是第三方支付連結到的叫做銀行端的虛擬帳戶！如果一旦消費者發生被詐騙的情況之下，請問數發部在什麼時候、在哪一個環節，可以馬上阻斷？"],["林副署長俊秀：我來報告一下，我們現在有一個聯防平臺提供給檢警調做調查，把那些虛擬帳號是哪一家第三方支付提供給他們，現在已經查一萬多筆了。"],["何委員欣純：現在平均在第三方支付，業者這個虛擬帳號阻斷的效率如何？平均每通報一個案件，你花多少時間去做阻斷的動作？"],["林副署長俊秀：這個檢警調在那邊查詢，一下子就可以查到是哪一個第三方支付的虛擬帳號。"],["何委員欣純：沒有一下子喔！沒有一下子喔！"],["林副署長俊秀：過去是沒有這個聯防平臺的。"],["何委員欣純：你現在這個聯防平臺也沒有一下子啊，都有時間上的落差嘛，從警政署、警政單位接收到報案，再去通報，通報之後，你們再要求第三方支付阻斷金流，不付給銀行，這中間是有時間差的喔，這中間是有時間差的喔，你自己坦白講。"],["林副署長俊秀：跟委員報告，過去時間差比較久，現在有我們那個聯防平臺的話，其實檢警調相對很快……"],["何委員欣純：你現在有聯防平臺之後，你告訴我時間差多少啊！"],["林副署長俊秀：因為這個東西……"],["何委員欣純：你現在講出來的都有錄音、錄影喔。"],["林副署長俊秀：是、是、是，因為這個都是檢警做調查的時候去通知銀行的，這我們可能要跟他們……"],["何委員欣純：你看你現在講的又跟剛剛回答我的不一樣了啊！"],["林副署長俊秀：沒有不一樣。"],["何委員欣純：不一樣！我剛剛的問題是說數位發展部在管第三方支付業者，那第三方支付業者，如果一旦消費者認為他被詐騙了，他的錢是繳給第三方支付，第三方支付再給銀行端，你現在講的是警政署收到詐騙案件的通報後是直接到銀行端。但是我跟你講，第三方支付轉出去之後到銀行端，警政署數萬件的通報案件到銀行端的時候，等到銀行端凍結帳號，這中間就有時間差，很多都是透過第三方支付給銀行，銀行就馬上轉匯出去了。這中間就是我們認為人民要求的數位聯防平臺是不是能夠更強化、能夠更即時？你數位發展部有沒有權力要求第三方支付，一收到消費者疑似被詐騙金額的時候，它就可以系統阻斷，可不可以？不可以啦！我現在就跟你講嘛。"],["林副署長俊秀：是，還是要透過檢警調。"],["何委員欣純：所以你應該跟金管會、跟銀行端，我覺得這是要跨部會合作，因為現在這個聯防平臺就是漏了你們這一關啦，就是少了你們這一個把關啦，你不能整個都推給銀行、推給金管會，因為第三方支付業者現在是數位發展部在管的，是不是？所以我拜託你好好的去研擬出一套你可以回答我問題，真正可以運行的，我的要求、人民的要求就是第三方支付監管還必須強化，你的聯防也必須要強化，凍結警示帳戶的速度也要更快，這樣才能阻斷詐騙集團的金流，也才能夠維護人民的權益啦，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好，委員，回去我就把整個process再檢討一遍。謝謝。"],["何委員欣純：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝何欣純委員發言。","下一位請羅智強委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":380,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-15","speakers":["陳雪生","林沛祥","李昆澤","黃健豪","林國成","林俊憲","蔡其昌","魯明哲","徐富癸","許智傑","陳素月","羅智強","游顥","翁曉玲","何欣純","王鴻薇","徐巧芯","邱若華","吳宗憲","洪孟楷","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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473.511, \"end\": 480.318, \"text\": \"因為這個都是檢警調查了之後去通知銀行的 這我們可能要跟他們 你看你現在講的又跟剛剛回答我的不一樣了啊沒有不一樣\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 473.511, \"end\": 473.912, \"score\": 0.646}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 473.912, \"end\": 474.052, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 474.052, \"end\": 474.412, \"score\": 0.707}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"警\", \"start\": 474.412, \"end\": 474.873, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 474.873, \"end\": 475.093, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 475.093, \"end\": 475.193, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 475.193, \"end\": 475.273, \"score\": 0.742}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 475.273, \"end\": 475.453, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 475.453, \"end\": 475.593, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 475.593, \"end\": 475.794, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 475.794, 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00:01:06,124\n不僅僅是政府甚至所有的民間企業都必須要做到對不對好那我現在就來談問題出在哪裡我們到現在都在談打詐打詐我們還是發現即使到現在政府各單位動起來了要組一個打詐國家隊結果呢詐騙仍然橫行那橫行的最重要的一個金流的來源是在哪裡\n\n4\n00:01:07,325 --> 00:01:32,653\n其中一個環節在第三方支付我們到現在我這個是搜尋的最近的這些媒體有報出來的個案都看到這個詐騙集團的金流一樣是透過第三方支付變成是他的工具那我們現在雖然有說要強化監管那部長就你認為第三方支付現在是我們數位發展部\n\n5\n00:01:33,653 --> 00:02:01,506\n要管理的你自己認為來你督導現在你的認知態度那個跟委員報告我們當然第三置戶是一個的確啦是詐騙的一個管道那我們在做已經在做管理包括能量登錄啦從過去有一萬多家的所謂第三方置戶業者現在只有剩下五十幾家那五十幾家的好處就是說我們就可以對他比較強度監管那他們如果是你的強度監管等一下我就問你來我跟你講\n\n6\n00:02:02,466 --> 00:02:20,358\n第三方支付我說淪為詐騙的溫床對不對你剛剛也講是可能是詐騙工具的一個項目而且幾乎是橫行喔那你們說呢對你們有源頭管理現在有需要他登錄但是我在提醒喔你們還是被動的接受登錄\n\n7\n00:02:21,818 --> 00:02:44,852\n這個服務量能的登錄制度雖然是因應洗錢防治法我們去年修法還有數位發展部有給予所謂的法尊指引但是你們的量能我覺得不夠為什麼不夠源頭管理阻斷詐騙你們還做不到你們的查核量能效率很慢\n\n8\n00:02:46,311 --> 00:03:04,811\n我舉一個例子這個是你們給我的資料我調出來的剛剛部長有講一萬多家可以做第三方支付服務業的有一萬多家那現在登錄的你們給我的資料原來是說54家54家裡面其中有一家\n\n9\n00:03:06,557 --> 00:03:34,146\n現在被廢止了那這個被廢止了我要跟你講這個時間差透露出我們數位發展部的這個效率慢量能不夠這一家叫做楊盛楊盛呢原來在112年呢8月左右你們就讓他通過登錄你們讓他通過登錄了之後你們到什麼時候才去實地查核你知道嗎隔一年的1月\n\n10\n00:03:36,212 --> 00:03:58,207\n從8月到隔一年的1月總共將近5個月你們實地查核才發現他有異樣他搬離了縣子也沒有辦法再來補件也沒有辦法再來說明你們一直到這是你們自己發的這個新聞稿一直到今年的3月才說廢止他的登錄\n\n11\n00:03:59,810 --> 00:04:08,376\n那部長從你們給他通過的112年8月到今年的3月才廢止這中間經過幾個月?\n\n12\n00:04:11,059 --> 00:04:32,947\n8月到3月就已經有7個月對嘛你都答不出來了半年多啦這半年多7個月的空窗期那請問一下如果他繼續淪為詐騙集團所利用的第三方支付那發生了多少件了騙了多少錢了你知道嗎\n\n13\n00:04:34,153 --> 00:04:35,534\n我們一年大概會查20幾家\n\n14\n00:05:02,150 --> 00:05:02,170\n議員報告．\n\n15\n00:05:23,660 --> 00:05:25,801\n這三個數字之間你總是要給人民一個交代吧其他沒有來登錄的還可以繼續進行第三方支付嗎?\n\n16\n00:05:51,888 --> 00:06:14,440\n我現在就跟你講銀行的事情了來部長我希望你身為數位發展部的部長在管理第三方支付你源頭管理是重點但是你的效率不彰你的量能不夠你現在看喔我幫你爬書出來數位發展部在管第三方支付管業者那消費者被詐騙的是\n\n17\n00:06:16,141 --> 00:06:17,482\n請問事務發布在什麼時候在哪一個環節可以馬上阻斷\n\n18\n00:06:43,748 --> 00:06:47,130\n現在平均可以在第三方支付業者這個虛擬帳號的一個阻斷的效率如何?你平均每通到一個案件你花多少時間去做阻斷的動作?\n\n19\n00:07:04,868 --> 00:07:27,783\n你現在這個聯防平台也沒有一下子喔都有時間上的落差喔從警政署、警政單位接收到報案報案再接收到去通報通報之後你們要求第三方支付斷\n\n20\n00:07:29,684 --> 00:07:32,646\n你告訴我時間差多少啊?你現在講出來錄影錄影喔\n\n21\n00:07:53,511 --> 00:08:00,318\n因為這個都是檢警調查了之後去通知銀行的這我們可能要跟他們你看你現在講的又跟剛剛回答我的不一樣了啊沒有不一樣\n\n22\n00:08:04,989 --> 00:08:26,681\n我剛剛的問題是說你數位發展部在管第三方支付業者那第三方支付業者如果一旦消費者認為他被詐騙了他的錢是交給第三方支付第三方支付再給銀行端你現在講的是警政署收到被通報的收到詐騙的案件通報是直接到銀行端但是我跟你講\n\n23\n00:08:27,401 --> 00:08:53,034\n第三方支付轉出去之後在銀行端警政署數萬件的通報案件到銀行端的時候銀行端凍結帳號這中間就有時間差很多都是透過第三方支付給銀行銀行就馬上轉匯出去了這中間就是我們認為說人民要求我們的數位聯防平台是不是能夠更強化能夠更及時\n\n24\n00:08:55,356 --> 00:09:23,344\n你數位發展部有沒有權利要求第三方支付一收到這個消費者一次被詐騙的金額的時候他就可以系統阻斷可不可以不可以啦我現在都跟你講啦所以你應該跟金管會跟銀行端我覺得這是要跨部會合作因為你們現在這個聯防平台就是漏了你們這一關啦\n\n25\n00:09:24,488 --> 00:09:53,989\n就是少了你們這個把關啊你不能整個都推給銀行啊推給金管會啊因為第三方支付業者現在是數位發展部在管的啊是不是所以我拜託你去好好的去研擬出一套你可以回答我問題真正可以運行的我的要求人民的要求就是第三方支付監管還必須強化你的聯防也必須要強化你的\n\n26\n00:09:54,469 --> 00:09:54,730\n謝謝何欣純委員發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3892\t8314\t謝謝陳雪生召委我們是不是先請訴發部黃部長訴發部黃部長黃部長好我想我們今天都在談我們人民的個資的保護這是一定要的這是我們一定政府要去維護的人民的權益\n28089\t36538\t今天談的不管是電信業者或者是我接下來要談的第三方支付我覺得保護人民的個資維護人民的權益\n39690\t66124\t不僅僅是政府甚至所有的民間企業都必須要做到對不對好那我現在就來談問題出在哪裡我們到現在都在談打詐打詐我們還是發現即使到現在政府各單位動起來了要組一個打詐國家隊結果呢詐騙仍然橫行那橫行的最重要的一個金流的來源是在哪裡\n67325\t92653\t其中一個環節在第三方支付我們到現在我這個是搜尋的最近的這些媒體有報出來的個案都看到這個詐騙集團的金流一樣是透過第三方支付變成是他的工具那我們現在雖然有說要強化監管那部長就你認為第三方支付現在是我們數位發展部\n93653\t121506\t要管理的你自己認為來你督導現在你的認知態度那個跟委員報告我們當然第三置戶是一個的確啦是詐騙的一個管道那我們在做已經在做管理包括能量登錄啦從過去有一萬多家的所謂第三方置戶業者現在只有剩下五十幾家那五十幾家的好處就是說我們就可以對他比較強度監管那他們如果是你的強度監管等一下我就問你來我跟你講\n122466\t140358\t第三方支付我說淪為詐騙的溫床對不對你剛剛也講是可能是詐騙工具的一個項目而且幾乎是橫行喔那你們說呢對你們有源頭管理現在有需要他登錄但是我在提醒喔你們還是被動的接受登錄\n141818\t164852\t這個服務量能的登錄制度雖然是因應洗錢防治法我們去年修法還有數位發展部有給予所謂的法尊指引但是你們的量能我覺得不夠為什麼不夠源頭管理阻斷詐騙你們還做不到你們的查核量能效率很慢\n166311\t184811\t我舉一個例子這個是你們給我的資料我調出來的剛剛部長有講一萬多家可以做第三方支付服務業的有一萬多家那現在登錄的你們給我的資料原來是說54家54家裡面其中有一家\n186557\t214146\t現在被廢止了那這個被廢止了我要跟你講這個時間差透露出我們數位發展部的這個效率慢量能不夠這一家叫做楊盛楊盛呢原來在112年呢8月左右你們就讓他通過登錄你們讓他通過登錄了之後你們到什麼時候才去實地查核你知道嗎隔一年的1月\n216212\t238207\t從8月到隔一年的1月總共將近5個月你們實地查核才發現他有異樣他搬離了縣子也沒有辦法再來補件也沒有辦法再來說明你們一直到這是你們自己發的這個新聞稿一直到今年的3月才說廢止他的登錄\n239810\t248376\t那部長從你們給他通過的112年8月到今年的3月才廢止這中間經過幾個月?\n251059\t272947\t8月到3月就已經有7個月對嘛你都答不出來了半年多啦這半年多7個月的空窗期那請問一下如果他繼續淪為詐騙集團所利用的第三方支付那發生了多少件了騙了多少錢了你知道嗎\n274153\t275534\t我們一年大概會查20幾家\n302150\t302170\t議員報告．\n323660\t325801\t這三個數字之間你總是要給人民一個交代吧其他沒有來登錄的還可以繼續進行第三方支付嗎?\n351888\t374440\t我現在就跟你講銀行的事情了來部長我希望你身為數位發展部的部長在管理第三方支付你源頭管理是重點但是你的效率不彰你的量能不夠你現在看喔我幫你爬書出來數位發展部在管第三方支付管業者那消費者被詐騙的是\n376141\t377482\t請問事務發布在什麼時候在哪一個環節可以馬上阻斷\n403748\t407130\t現在平均可以在第三方支付業者這個虛擬帳號的一個阻斷的效率如何?你平均每通到一個案件你花多少時間去做阻斷的動作?\n424868\t447783\t你現在這個聯防平台也沒有一下子喔都有時間上的落差喔從警政署、警政單位接收到報案報案再接收到去通報通報之後你們要求第三方支付斷\n449684\t452646\t你告訴我時間差多少啊?你現在講出來錄影錄影喔\n473511\t480318\t因為這個都是檢警調查了之後去通知銀行的 這我們可能要跟他們 你看你現在講的又跟剛剛回答我的不一樣了啊沒有不一樣\n484989\t506681\t我剛剛的問題是說你數位發展部在管第三方支付業者那第三方支付業者如果一旦消費者認為他被詐騙了他的錢是交給第三方支付第三方支付再給銀行端你現在講的是警政署收到被通報的收到詐騙的案件通報是直接到銀行端但是我跟你講\n507401\t533034\t第三方支付轉出去之後在銀行端警政署數萬件的通報案件到銀行端的時候銀行端凍結帳號這中間就有時間差很多都是透過第三方支付給銀行銀行就馬上轉匯出去了這中間就是我們認為說人民要求我們的數位聯防平台是不是能夠更強化能夠更及時\n535356\t563344\t你數位發展部有沒有權利要求第三方支付一收到這個消費者一次被詐騙的金額的時候他就可以系統阻斷可不可以不可以啦我現在都跟你講啦所以你應該跟金管會跟銀行端我覺得這是要跨部會合作因為你們現在這個聯防平台就是漏了你們這一關啦\n564488\t593989\t就是少了你們這個把關啊你不能整個都推給銀行啊推給金管會啊因為第三方支付業者現在是數位發展部在管的啊是不是所以我拜託你去好好的去研擬出一套你可以回答我問題真正可以運行的我的要求人民的要求就是第三方支付監管還必須強化你的聯防也必須要強化你的\n594469\t594730\t謝謝何欣純委員發言\n","txt":"謝謝陳雪生召委我們是不是先請訴發部黃部長訴發部黃部長黃部長好我想我們今天都在談我們人民的個資的保護這是一定要的這是我們一定政府要去維護的人民的權益\n今天談的不管是電信業者或者是我接下來要談的第三方支付我覺得保護人民的個資維護人民的權益\n不僅僅是政府甚至所有的民間企業都必須要做到對不對好那我現在就來談問題出在哪裡我們到現在都在談打詐打詐我們還是發現即使到現在政府各單位動起來了要組一個打詐國家隊結果呢詐騙仍然橫行那橫行的最重要的一個金流的來源是在哪裡\n其中一個環節在第三方支付我們到現在我這個是搜尋的最近的這些媒體有報出來的個案都看到這個詐騙集團的金流一樣是透過第三方支付變成是他的工具那我們現在雖然有說要強化監管那部長就你認為第三方支付現在是我們數位發展部\n要管理的你自己認為來你督導現在你的認知態度那個跟委員報告我們當然第三置戶是一個的確啦是詐騙的一個管道那我們在做已經在做管理包括能量登錄啦從過去有一萬多家的所謂第三方置戶業者現在只有剩下五十幾家那五十幾家的好處就是說我們就可以對他比較強度監管那他們如果是你的強度監管等一下我就問你來我跟你講\n第三方支付我說淪為詐騙的溫床對不對你剛剛也講是可能是詐騙工具的一個項目而且幾乎是橫行喔那你們說呢對你們有源頭管理現在有需要他登錄但是我在提醒喔你們還是被動的接受登錄\n這個服務量能的登錄制度雖然是因應洗錢防治法我們去年修法還有數位發展部有給予所謂的法尊指引但是你們的量能我覺得不夠為什麼不夠源頭管理阻斷詐騙你們還做不到你們的查核量能效率很慢\n我舉一個例子這個是你們給我的資料我調出來的剛剛部長有講一萬多家可以做第三方支付服務業的有一萬多家那現在登錄的你們給我的資料原來是說54家54家裡面其中有一家\n現在被廢止了那這個被廢止了我要跟你講這個時間差透露出我們數位發展部的這個效率慢量能不夠這一家叫做楊盛楊盛呢原來在112年呢8月左右你們就讓他通過登錄你們讓他通過登錄了之後你們到什麼時候才去實地查核你知道嗎隔一年的1月\n從8月到隔一年的1月總共將近5個月你們實地查核才發現他有異樣他搬離了縣子也沒有辦法再來補件也沒有辦法再來說明你們一直到這是你們自己發的這個新聞稿一直到今年的3月才說廢止他的登錄\n那部長從你們給他通過的112年8月到今年的3月才廢止這中間經過幾個月?\n8月到3月就已經有7個月對嘛你都答不出來了半年多啦這半年多7個月的空窗期那請問一下如果他繼續淪為詐騙集團所利用的第三方支付那發生了多少件了騙了多少錢了你知道嗎\n我們一年大概會查20幾家\n議員報告．\n這三個數字之間你總是要給人民一個交代吧其他沒有來登錄的還可以繼續進行第三方支付嗎?\n我現在就跟你講銀行的事情了來部長我希望你身為數位發展部的部長在管理第三方支付你源頭管理是重點但是你的效率不彰你的量能不夠你現在看喔我幫你爬書出來數位發展部在管第三方支付管業者那消費者被詐騙的是\n請問事務發布在什麼時候在哪一個環節可以馬上阻斷\n現在平均可以在第三方支付業者這個虛擬帳號的一個阻斷的效率如何?你平均每通到一個案件你花多少時間去做阻斷的動作?\n你現在這個聯防平台也沒有一下子喔都有時間上的落差喔從警政署、警政單位接收到報案報案再接收到去通報通報之後你們要求第三方支付斷\n你告訴我時間差多少啊?你現在講出來錄影錄影喔\n因為這個都是檢警調查了之後去通知銀行的 這我們可能要跟他們 你看你現在講的又跟剛剛回答我的不一樣了啊沒有不一樣\n我剛剛的問題是說你數位發展部在管第三方支付業者那第三方支付業者如果一旦消費者認為他被詐騙了他的錢是交給第三方支付第三方支付再給銀行端你現在講的是警政署收到被通報的收到詐騙的案件通報是直接到銀行端但是我跟你講\n第三方支付轉出去之後在銀行端警政署數萬件的通報案件到銀行端的時候銀行端凍結帳號這中間就有時間差很多都是透過第三方支付給銀行銀行就馬上轉匯出去了這中間就是我們認為說人民要求我們的數位聯防平台是不是能夠更強化能夠更及時\n你數位發展部有沒有權利要求第三方支付一收到這個消費者一次被詐騙的金額的時候他就可以系統阻斷可不可以不可以啦我現在都跟你講啦所以你應該跟金管會跟銀行端我覺得這是要跨部會合作因為你們現在這個聯防平台就是漏了你們這一關啦\n就是少了你們這個把關啊你不能整個都推給銀行啊推給金管會啊因為第三方支付業者現在是數位發展部在管的啊是不是所以我拜託你去好好的去研擬出一套你可以回答我問題真正可以運行的我的要求人民的要求就是第三方支付監管還必須強化你的聯防也必須要強化你的\n謝謝何欣純委員發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.892 --> 00:08.314\n謝謝陳雪生召委我們是不是先請訴發部黃部長訴發部黃部長黃部長好我想我們今天都在談我們人民的個資的保護這是一定要的這是我們一定政府要去維護的人民的權益\n\n00:28.089 --> 00:36.538\n今天談的不管是電信業者或者是我接下來要談的第三方支付我覺得保護人民的個資維護人民的權益\n\n00:39.690 --> 01:06.124\n不僅僅是政府甚至所有的民間企業都必須要做到對不對好那我現在就來談問題出在哪裡我們到現在都在談打詐打詐我們還是發現即使到現在政府各單位動起來了要組一個打詐國家隊結果呢詐騙仍然橫行那橫行的最重要的一個金流的來源是在哪裡\n\n01:07.325 --> 01:32.653\n其中一個環節在第三方支付我們到現在我這個是搜尋的最近的這些媒體有報出來的個案都看到這個詐騙集團的金流一樣是透過第三方支付變成是他的工具那我們現在雖然有說要強化監管那部長就你認為第三方支付現在是我們數位發展部\n\n01:33.653 --> 02:01.506\n要管理的你自己認為來你督導現在你的認知態度那個跟委員報告我們當然第三置戶是一個的確啦是詐騙的一個管道那我們在做已經在做管理包括能量登錄啦從過去有一萬多家的所謂第三方置戶業者現在只有剩下五十幾家那五十幾家的好處就是說我們就可以對他比較強度監管那他們如果是你的強度監管等一下我就問你來我跟你講\n\n02:02.466 --> 02:20.358\n第三方支付我說淪為詐騙的溫床對不對你剛剛也講是可能是詐騙工具的一個項目而且幾乎是橫行喔那你們說呢對你們有源頭管理現在有需要他登錄但是我在提醒喔你們還是被動的接受登錄\n\n02:21.818 --> 02:44.852\n這個服務量能的登錄制度雖然是因應洗錢防治法我們去年修法還有數位發展部有給予所謂的法尊指引但是你們的量能我覺得不夠為什麼不夠源頭管理阻斷詐騙你們還做不到你們的查核量能效率很慢\n\n02:46.311 --> 03:04.811\n我舉一個例子這個是你們給我的資料我調出來的剛剛部長有講一萬多家可以做第三方支付服務業的有一萬多家那現在登錄的你們給我的資料原來是說54家54家裡面其中有一家\n\n03:06.557 --> 03:34.146\n現在被廢止了那這個被廢止了我要跟你講這個時間差透露出我們數位發展部的這個效率慢量能不夠這一家叫做楊盛楊盛呢原來在112年呢8月左右你們就讓他通過登錄你們讓他通過登錄了之後你們到什麼時候才去實地查核你知道嗎隔一年的1月\n\n03:36.212 --> 03:58.207\n從8月到隔一年的1月總共將近5個月你們實地查核才發現他有異樣他搬離了縣子也沒有辦法再來補件也沒有辦法再來說明你們一直到這是你們自己發的這個新聞稿一直到今年的3月才說廢止他的登錄\n\n03:59.810 --> 04:08.376\n那部長從你們給他通過的112年8月到今年的3月才廢止這中間經過幾個月?\n\n04:11.059 --> 04:32.947\n8月到3月就已經有7個月對嘛你都答不出來了半年多啦這半年多7個月的空窗期那請問一下如果他繼續淪為詐騙集團所利用的第三方支付那發生了多少件了騙了多少錢了你知道嗎\n\n04:34.153 --> 04:35.534\n我們一年大概會查20幾家\n\n05:02.150 --> 05:02.170\n議員報告．\n\n05:23.660 --> 05:25.801\n這三個數字之間你總是要給人民一個交代吧其他沒有來登錄的還可以繼續進行第三方支付嗎?\n\n05:51.888 --> 06:14.440\n我現在就跟你講銀行的事情了來部長我希望你身為數位發展部的部長在管理第三方支付你源頭管理是重點但是你的效率不彰你的量能不夠你現在看喔我幫你爬書出來數位發展部在管第三方支付管業者那消費者被詐騙的是\n\n06:16.141 --> 06:17.482\n請問事務發布在什麼時候在哪一個環節可以馬上阻斷\n\n06:43.748 --> 06:47.130\n現在平均可以在第三方支付業者這個虛擬帳號的一個阻斷的效率如何?你平均每通到一個案件你花多少時間去做阻斷的動作?\n\n07:04.868 --> 07:27.783\n你現在這個聯防平台也沒有一下子喔都有時間上的落差喔從警政署、警政單位接收到報案報案再接收到去通報通報之後你們要求第三方支付斷\n\n07:29.684 --> 07:32.646\n你告訴我時間差多少啊?你現在講出來錄影錄影喔\n\n07:53.511 --> 08:00.318\n因為這個都是檢警調查了之後去通知銀行的這我們可能要跟他們你看你現在講的又跟剛剛回答我的不一樣了啊沒有不一樣\n\n08:04.989 --> 08:26.681\n我剛剛的問題是說你數位發展部在管第三方支付業者那第三方支付業者如果一旦消費者認為他被詐騙了他的錢是交給第三方支付第三方支付再給銀行端你現在講的是警政署收到被通報的收到詐騙的案件通報是直接到銀行端但是我跟你講\n\n08:27.401 --> 08:53.034\n第三方支付轉出去之後在銀行端警政署數萬件的通報案件到銀行端的時候銀行端凍結帳號這中間就有時間差很多都是透過第三方支付給銀行銀行就馬上轉匯出去了這中間就是我們認為說人民要求我們的數位聯防平台是不是能夠更強化能夠更及時\n\n08:55.356 --> 09:23.344\n你數位發展部有沒有權利要求第三方支付一收到這個消費者一次被詐騙的金額的時候他就可以系統阻斷可不可以不可以啦我現在都跟你講啦所以你應該跟金管會跟銀行端我覺得這是要跨部會合作因為你們現在這個聯防平台就是漏了你們這一關啦\n\n09:24.488 --> 09:53.989\n就是少了你們這個把關啊你不能整個都推給銀行啊推給金管會啊因為第三方支付業者現在是數位發展部在管的啊是不是所以我拜託你去好好的去研擬出一套你可以回答我問題真正可以運行的我的要求人民的要求就是第三方支付監管還必須強化你的聯防也必須要強化你的\n\n09:54.469 --> 09:54.730\n謝謝何欣純委員發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.892,"end":8.314,"text":"謝謝陳雪生召委我們是不是先請訴發部黃部長訴發部黃部長黃部長好我想我們今天都在談我們人民的個資的保護這是一定要的這是我們一定政府要去維護的人民的權益"},{"start":28.089,"end":36.538,"text":"今天談的不管是電信業者或者是我接下來要談的第三方支付我覺得保護人民的個資維護人民的權益"},{"start":39.69,"end":66.124,"text":"不僅僅是政府甚至所有的民間企業都必須要做到對不對好那我現在就來談問題出在哪裡我們到現在都在談打詐打詐我們還是發現即使到現在政府各單位動起來了要組一個打詐國家隊結果呢詐騙仍然橫行那橫行的最重要的一個金流的來源是在哪裡"},{"start":67.325,"end":92.653,"text":"其中一個環節在第三方支付我們到現在我這個是搜尋的最近的這些媒體有報出來的個案都看到這個詐騙集團的金流一樣是透過第三方支付變成是他的工具那我們現在雖然有說要強化監管那部長就你認為第三方支付現在是我們數位發展部"},{"start":93.653,"end":121.506,"text":"要管理的你自己認為來你督導現在你的認知態度那個跟委員報告我們當然第三置戶是一個的確啦是詐騙的一個管道那我們在做已經在做管理包括能量登錄啦從過去有一萬多家的所謂第三方置戶業者現在只有剩下五十幾家那五十幾家的好處就是說我們就可以對他比較強度監管那他們如果是你的強度監管等一下我就問你來我跟你講"},{"start":122.466,"end":140.358,"text":"第三方支付我說淪為詐騙的溫床對不對你剛剛也講是可能是詐騙工具的一個項目而且幾乎是橫行喔那你們說呢對你們有源頭管理現在有需要他登錄但是我在提醒喔你們還是被動的接受登錄"},{"start":141.818,"end":164.852,"text":"這個服務量能的登錄制度雖然是因應洗錢防治法我們去年修法還有數位發展部有給予所謂的法尊指引但是你們的量能我覺得不夠為什麼不夠源頭管理阻斷詐騙你們還做不到你們的查核量能效率很慢"},{"start":166.311,"end":184.811,"text":"我舉一個例子這個是你們給我的資料我調出來的剛剛部長有講一萬多家可以做第三方支付服務業的有一萬多家那現在登錄的你們給我的資料原來是說54家54家裡面其中有一家"},{"start":186.557,"end":214.146,"text":"現在被廢止了那這個被廢止了我要跟你講這個時間差透露出我們數位發展部的這個效率慢量能不夠這一家叫做楊盛楊盛呢原來在112年呢8月左右你們就讓他通過登錄你們讓他通過登錄了之後你們到什麼時候才去實地查核你知道嗎隔一年的1月"},{"start":216.212,"end":238.207,"text":"從8月到隔一年的1月總共將近5個月你們實地查核才發現他有異樣他搬離了縣子也沒有辦法再來補件也沒有辦法再來說明你們一直到這是你們自己發的這個新聞稿一直到今年的3月才說廢止他的登錄"},{"start":239.81,"end":248.376,"text":"那部長從你們給他通過的112年8月到今年的3月才廢止這中間經過幾個月?"},{"start":251.059,"end":272.947,"text":"8月到3月就已經有7個月對嘛你都答不出來了半年多啦這半年多7個月的空窗期那請問一下如果他繼續淪為詐騙集團所利用的第三方支付那發生了多少件了騙了多少錢了你知道嗎"},{"start":274.153,"end":275.534,"text":"我們一年大概會查20幾家"},{"start":302.15,"end":302.17,"text":"議員報告．"},{"start":323.66,"end":325.801,"text":"這三個數字之間你總是要給人民一個交代吧其他沒有來登錄的還可以繼續進行第三方支付嗎?"},{"start":351.888,"end":374.44,"text":"我現在就跟你講銀行的事情了來部長我希望你身為數位發展部的部長在管理第三方支付你源頭管理是重點但是你的效率不彰你的量能不夠你現在看喔我幫你爬書出來數位發展部在管第三方支付管業者那消費者被詐騙的是"},{"start":376.141,"end":377.482,"text":"請問事務發布在什麼時候在哪一個環節可以馬上阻斷"},{"start":403.748,"end":407.13,"text":"現在平均可以在第三方支付業者這個虛擬帳號的一個阻斷的效率如何?你平均每通到一個案件你花多少時間去做阻斷的動作?"},{"start":424.868,"end":447.783,"text":"你現在這個聯防平台也沒有一下子喔都有時間上的落差喔從警政署、警政單位接收到報案報案再接收到去通報通報之後你們要求第三方支付斷"},{"start":449.684,"end":452.646,"text":"你告訴我時間差多少啊?你現在講出來錄影錄影喔"},{"start":473.511,"end":480.318,"text":"因為這個都是檢警調查了之後去通知銀行的 這我們可能要跟他們 你看你現在講的又跟剛剛回答我的不一樣了啊沒有不一樣"},{"start":484.989,"end":506.681,"text":"我剛剛的問題是說你數位發展部在管第三方支付業者那第三方支付業者如果一旦消費者認為他被詐騙了他的錢是交給第三方支付第三方支付再給銀行端你現在講的是警政署收到被通報的收到詐騙的案件通報是直接到銀行端但是我跟你講"},{"start":507.401,"end":533.034,"text":"第三方支付轉出去之後在銀行端警政署數萬件的通報案件到銀行端的時候銀行端凍結帳號這中間就有時間差很多都是透過第三方支付給銀行銀行就馬上轉匯出去了這中間就是我們認為說人民要求我們的數位聯防平台是不是能夠更強化能夠更及時"},{"start":535.356,"end":563.344,"text":"你數位發展部有沒有權利要求第三方支付一收到這個消費者一次被詐騙的金額的時候他就可以系統阻斷可不可以不可以啦我現在都跟你講啦所以你應該跟金管會跟銀行端我覺得這是要跨部會合作因為你們現在這個聯防平台就是漏了你們這一關啦"},{"start":564.488,"end":593.989,"text":"就是少了你們這個把關啊你不能整個都推給銀行啊推給金管會啊因為第三方支付業者現在是數位發展部在管的啊是不是所以我拜託你去好好的去研擬出一套你可以回答我問題真正可以運行的我的要求人民的要求就是第三方支付監管還必須強化你的聯防也必須要強化你的"},{"start":594.469,"end":594.73,"text":"謝謝何欣純委員發言"}]}}}}