{"id":153463,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153463","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2dd358c888e2c707ecc0261ce12327e059c493b59145da8fe7a5eaa3f1fb9be26075f793af8843da5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳雪生","委員發言時間":"12:03:38 - 12:13:20","影片長度":"00:09:42","會議時間":"2024-06-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、法務部、個人資料保護委員會籌備處及中華電信股份有限公司就「國家機器以手機定位、分析個資特性等方式侵犯人民權益」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【6月3日及6日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-06-03","start_time":"2024-06-03T12:03:38+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-03T12:13:20+08:00","duration":582,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1083,"blocks":[["陳委員雪生：（12時3分）謝謝主席，是不是請NCC陳主委？"],["主席：好，陳主委。"],["陳委員雪生：法務部黃次長還有中華電信郭董事長。"],["主席：法務部黃次長，來。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員早。"],["陳委員雪生：各位早，本席今天這個會議的主題把它定為國家機器有它的道理，副院長說這個定得重了一點，因為王義川執行長是民進黨很重要的一個幹部，跟整個選舉的國家機器扯在一起，所以我才定為國家機器。我想請問一下法務部黃次長。"],["黃次長謀信：委員好。"],["陳委員雪生：檢察官已經主動分案偵辦調查嘛？"],["黃次長謀信：對。"],["陳委員雪生：這是社會那麼重視的案子，應該大張旗鼓，是不是？要兵分三路、兵分四路嘛！去查三大業者有沒有做這樣的行為。"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，這涉及到我們偵查不公開這個最重要的原則……"],["陳委員雪生：我知道，你們常常都在公開，講的是偵查不公開，可是在電視裡面你看看哪一樣不公開的？每一樣都公開啊！甚至是多少錢交保。"],["黃次長謀信：偵辦案件偵查不公開是檢察官最基本的要求。"],["陳委員雪生：你說是最基本的，我說是最不基本的要求，哪一件不公開？你講！有不公開的案子嗎？你舉例說明，每一件都公開，公開得乾乾淨淨，那我是覺得應該兵分三路、兵分八路，應該去包抄嘛！你們有傳訊過王義川執行長嗎？我看電視報導也沒有，他是那麼重要的一個人，如果有傳訊的話，電視一定有很大的報導啊！是不是？各新聞媒體都以頭版頭條報導出來啦！可是沒有啊！沒看到啊！"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，關於目前進行什麼樣的偵查作為，老實講，我並不清楚，除非該地檢署主動發布新聞稿，要不然外界是不清楚的。"],["陳委員雪生：當然以你職掌的範圍，你可以這麼講。我覺得地檢署查到現在沒有任何的訊息，很像真的是偵查不公開，我看也不了了之啦！這件事情我看是雲淡風輕、若無其事。"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，這是一個社會矚目的案件，檢察官不可能如同委員剛剛講的那樣，他會依照證據來認定。"],["陳委員雪生：好，次長請回。"],["黃次長謀信：謝謝。"],["陳委員雪生：我要問一下中華電信的郭董事長。"],["郭董事長水義：委員好。"],["陳委員雪生：你們國際分公司的副總陳建志是從哪裡調來的？目前國際分公司的副總是從我們立法院過去的，之前是助理，是政治任命的喔！在企通處擔任協理，到現在是國際分公司的副總經理，也是廣義的公務員，你知不知道我們立法院柯總召的助理，還有很多的助理跑到你們中華電信去，都是高官任用，你們知道嗎？董事長，你知道嗎？甚至包含你本人都有可能是這樣喔！我是覺得這非常的可怕，因為政黨屬性不同，就會做其他各種的服務，那大數據有買賣嗎？"],["郭董事長水義：報告委員，那個大數據人潮分析的部分是在去識別化之後，依照個人資料保護法、電信管理法等相關法令，在遵循這些法令之下合法的去進行數據的分析提供的。"],["陳委員雪生：分公司的副總退休了嗎？"],["郭董事長水義：在職。"],["陳委員雪生：離任了沒有？"],["郭董事長水義：在職。"],["陳委員雪生：我在不只4年以前，在總統選舉的時候，我看過這樣的大數據的東西，有電信業者找我們立委問：你要不要分析你的票有多少？這上面有散布在臺灣整個島的很多點，有綠的點，有藍的點，分布得很密，我看過這個東西，有人來跟我推銷，因為我的選區不需要這個東西，我的選區的選票都在我的腦袋裡面，藍的在哪裡、綠的在哪裡、不是我的票在哪裡，我通通都知道，我自己知道，我不是像你們的大數據，我的腦袋裡面是我的大數據。所以我要問你對大數據這個東西是不是可以買賣？"],["郭董事長水義：在我們法規允許下所進行的商業服務……"],["陳委員雪生：對，你們講的都是依法講話，都是依法講話、依法行政。"],["郭董事長水義：對。"],["陳委員雪生：最可怕的是什麼呢？我是執政黨的某一個人，我跟你要個資料，你能夠不給嗎？一定給嘛！是不是？郭董，我跟你熟的話，就請你把什麼資料偷偷給我一下。"],["郭董事長水義：委員不會跟我……"],["陳委員雪生：我為什麼講是國家機器？今天講到王義川執行長，像柯建銘總召，我相信也是國家機器，是不是？他向你們要東西有什麼困難嗎？沒有困難的，既然都可以買賣了，我們也可以談不買賣嘛！是不是這樣？"],["郭董事長水義：委員不會跟我索取這些不合法的、我們依法不能提供的資料。"],["陳委員雪生：那當然啦！我向你索取的都是合法的，你能夠給我的東西也是合法的，你會講不合法嗎？那不可能嘛！所以我剛才才在講，就算打死你，你也不會招供啦！是不是？還有，在這個事情發生以後，你有去向你的下屬單位調查到底有沒有發生這個事情嗎？有沒有？"],["郭董事長水義：報告委員，我有調查。"],["陳委員雪生：調查的資料在哪裡？"],["郭董事長水義：我們請同仁調查的結果……"],["陳委員雪生：調查的結果怎麼樣？"],["郭董事長水義：這個大數據人潮分析的平臺在5月17號到24號之間，沒有任何異常的使用跟存取。"],["陳委員雪生：好，他們是怎麼跟你回報的？他一定講：報告董事長，我們底下都是依法行政，絕對不會有這種狗屁倒灶的事情，是不是這樣報告？"],["郭董事長水義：報告委員，我是請我們個人資料保護的單位去調查大數據單位的這個事情。"],["陳委員雪生：NCC的主委也一樣嘛！陳主委，你底下的人一定跟你講：我們都依法行政。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：那當然，本來就要落實依法行政。"],["陳委員雪生：他們是不是這樣報告？所以我講雲淡風輕嘛！沒事啦！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員，我們還是要經過調查才有辦法去下結論。"],["陳委員雪生：我是覺得你把這個大數據這樣子……你可以講買賣，有買賣也可以不買賣啊！買賣有公開的、有私底下的，有公的、有私的，什麼方式都有啊！我確認王義川執行長他不是詐騙集團，我確認他不是詐騙集團，他是真的，我告訴你，他的數據是有本的，他的數據一定有來源的，而這個來源我高度懷疑就是由你們中華電信的大數據出去的。我懷疑是這樣，我懷疑啦，我不敢肯定啦，因為我今天懷疑如果有資料的話，我早就拿出來了。查到現在很像根本都沒有查出什麼東西，王義川執行長也老神在在，你問我，我是用膝蓋想的，就跟我剛才講的一樣，我用大腦想的，這個道理是一樣的，所以這個怎麼查？"],["郭董事長水義：報告委員，再次強調，5月17號到24號之間，我們大數據的人潮分析平臺資料庫裡面，沒有任何異常的存取跟使用。"],["陳委員雪生：所以剛才我們蔡其昌副院長講說，我們執政黨講的是人權，嘴巴是講人權，肚子裡面是講人權嗎？不是這麼回事啊！你們現在去打開……NCC你把電視打開，藍的電視臺就是藍的電視臺，藍的電視臺不會去講綠的一句好話，綠的所有電視臺也絕對不會去讚美藍的政治人物，一句好話都沒有，不要講一句啦！半句都沒有，就是壞！臺灣的人民那麼善良，我最近想移民了，我從來沒有這個想法，在這裡晚上可以吃米粉湯、油豆腐，多愉快啊！穿著拖鞋出去治安也很好，我為什麼想移民？不怕死的年輕人一堆啊！跟老共要打仗是不是？那個電視每天報導的，你們沒有責任嗎？NCC沒有責任嗎？這個電視臺叫它關門嘛，關個幾家嘛，不准再講什麼藍的壞話，也不准講綠的壞話，電視節目水準稍微高一點好不好？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：好，我們盡力來提升，本來就是說……"],["陳委員雪生：你7月份就要走人了，怎麼盡力？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：本來NCC就是一個制度，鐵打的衙門流水的官，官員會離開，但我們還是會去處理。"],["陳委員雪生：NCC的官員也有很多在這邊，我拜託大家，我們共同努力，真的，臺灣不是這個樣子，臺灣沒有那麼善良了啦，臺灣真的已經很邪惡、很罪惡感了。立法院在開會，讓立法委員要出去卻害怕能不能走出這個立法院，這什麼話嘛！你說說看！這是個民主國家嗎？你到大陸去看看、你到大陸去看看，有這樣的事嗎？走出去很安全啊！殺人就馬上槍斃，就這麼回事，我們這裡殺人死刑犯還可以待個二、三十年，在裡面吃牢飯，很舒服、很愉快耶！還有人照顧他們，跟養老院一樣，可以嗎？好不好？我們大家共勉，謝謝！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳雪生召委。現在請徐巧芯委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":380,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-15","speakers":["陳雪生","林沛祥","李昆澤","黃健豪","林國成","林俊憲","蔡其昌","魯明哲","徐富癸","許智傑","陳素月","羅智強","游顥","翁曉玲","何欣純","王鴻薇","徐巧芯","邱若華","吳宗憲","洪孟楷","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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\"因為我在四年以前,不止四年以前,總統選舉我看過這樣的一個大數據的東西也是從電信業者,也是找我們立委說你要不要分析你的票有多少?上布在台灣整個島,點點點,綠的點藍的點,分布的很密\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 226.863, \"end\": 228.203, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 228.203, \"end\": 228.343, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 228.343, \"end\": 228.543, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"四\", \"start\": 228.543, \"end\": 228.683, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 228.683, \"end\": 228.883, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 228.883, \"end\": 229.023, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 229.023, \"end\": 229.904, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 229.904, \"end\": 230.024, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"止\", \"start\": 230.024, \"end\": 230.204, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"四\", \"start\": 230.204, \"end\": 231.184, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 231.184, \"end\": 231.384, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 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580.129, \"end\": 580.189, \"score\": 0.711}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 580.189, \"end\": 580.309, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 580.309, \"end\": 580.569, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 580.569, \"end\": 580.589, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"勉\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,390 --> 00:00:26,224\n好,謝謝主席,是不是請NCC陳主委、法務部黃次長、中華電信郭董各位早,本期今天這個會議把它定為國家機器有它的道理,副院長說這個定中了一點\n\n2\n00:00:27,728 --> 00:00:54,737\n因為這個王毅川執行長是民進黨很重要的一個幹部那麼跟整個選舉的國家機器扯在一起所以我定位國家機器其實這一個我想請問一下我們法務部黃市長檢察官已經主動分案辦調查嘛那他這個社會那麼重視的一個案子一個大張旗鼓啊是不是\n\n3\n00:00:55,798 --> 00:01:21,311\n兵分三路兵分四路嘛起碼三大業者有沒有做這樣的一個行為各位報告那這涉及到我們偵查不公開做最重要的原則了你們常常都在公開講的是偵查不公開電視裡面你看看哪一樣不公開是不是每一樣都公開啊偵查不公開是檢察官最基本的要求啦最基本的最不基本的要求哪一件不公開你講\n\n4\n00:01:22,605 --> 00:01:39,033\n每一件媒體有不公開的案子嗎?你舉例說明。每一件都公開。公開的乾乾淨淨。那我是覺得他應該兵分三路、兵分八路。應該去包抄嘛。那王玉川執行長你們傳訊過他嗎?我看電視報導也沒有。\n\n5\n00:01:42,658 --> 00:02:10,356\n這麼重要的一個人傳訊的話電視一定很大的字幕啊是不是各新聞媒體都頭板頭都出來了沒有啊沒看到啊各位報告他目前進行的什麼樣的偵查作為老實講我不清楚那除非該地檢署他主動發布新聞稿要不然外界那當然以你執掌的範圍你可以這麼講我想我對地檢署啊查到現在沒有任何的訊息很像真的是偵查不公開我看也不了了之啦這一件事情啊\n\n6\n00:02:12,162 --> 00:02:15,785\n目前國際分公司的副總陳建志是從哪裡調來的?副總欸,國際分公司副總\n\n7\n00:02:41,084 --> 00:03:06,641\n他是從我們立法院過去的助理政治任命的企通處擔任協理到現在是國際分公司的副總經理也是廣域的公務員你知道我們立法院柯總召的助理還有很多的助理跑到你們中華電信去都是高官任用你們知道嗎?董事長你知道嗎?甚至包含你本人都有可能是這樣\n\n8\n00:03:08,755 --> 00:03:16,479\n我是覺得這非常可怕因為政黨屬性不同就會做其他各種的服務那大數據有買賣嗎?\n\n9\n00:03:21,500 --> 00:03:45,860\n報告委員那個大數據人潮分析的部分在去識別化之後依照個人資料保護法、電信管理法等相關法令的這個在這個遵循之下那這個合法的去進行這個數據的分析他分公司的副總退休了嗎?在職你認了沒有?\n\n10\n00:03:46,863 --> 00:04:03,767\n因為我在四年以前,不止四年以前,總統選舉我看過這樣的一個大數據的東西也是從電信業者,也是找我們立委說你要不要分析你的票有多少?上布在台灣整個島,點點點,綠的點藍的點,分布的很密\n\n11\n00:04:09,528 --> 00:04:31,273\n我看過這個東西有人來給我推銷因為我的選區不需要這個東西我的選區的選票都在我的腦袋裡面藍的在哪裡綠的在哪裡不是我的票在哪裡我通通都知道我自己知道我不是你們的大數據我的腦袋是我的大數據所以我是說你大數據這個東西可以買賣是不是可以買賣\n\n12\n00:04:34,033 --> 00:04:40,859\n在我們法規的這個允許下所進行的商業的服務最可怕的是什麼呢?\n\n13\n00:04:44,895 --> 00:05:09,617\n我是執政長的某一個人,我要個資料,你能夠不給嗎?一定給嘛,是不是?郭董我跟你說的話,你什麼資料偷偷給我一下,我怎麼講是國家機器,今天講到王一川執行長,柯建民總召我也相信也是國家機器,是不是?他向你們要東西有什麼困難嗎?沒有困難的勒,既然都可以買賣了,我們也可以談不買賣嘛,是不是這樣?\n\n14\n00:05:12,273 --> 00:05:32,997\n委員不會跟我索取這些不合法的我們不能依法不能提供的錢我向你索取都是合法的你能夠給我的東西也是合法的啊你會講不合法嗎那不可能嘛所以我剛才才在講啊打死你也不會招供啦是不是那還有就是這個事情發生以後你有去向你的下屬單位\n\n15\n00:05:34,249 --> 00:06:00,769\n去調查到底有沒有發生這個事嗎?有沒有?報告委員我有調查調查的資料在哪裡?我們這個請同仁調查結果調查結果怎麼樣?這個大數據的人潮分析的平台在5月17日到24日之間沒有任何的異常的使用跟存取他一定講報告董事長我們底下都是依法行政絕對不會有這種狗屁倒倒的事情是不是這樣報告?\n\n16\n00:06:02,533 --> 00:06:23,292\n報告委員我是請我們個人資料保護的這個單位去調查大數據單位陳主委你底下一定跟你講嘛我們都依法行政當然本來就要落實依法行政是不是這樣報告所以我講雲淡風輕嘛沒事啊委員我們還是要經過調查才有辦法去下決論嘛\n\n17\n00:06:25,233 --> 00:06:53,779\n我是覺得齁你把這個大數據這樣子你可以講買賣有買賣也可以不買賣啊是不是買賣有公開的有私底下的有公的有私的什麼方式都有啊我確認王玉川執行長他不是詐騙集團喔我確認他不是詐騙集團他是真的我告訴你他的數據是有本的他的數據一定有來源的這個來源我高度的懷疑\n\n18\n00:06:54,471 --> 00:07:20,931\n就是由你們中華電信的大數據出去的我懷疑是這樣我懷疑啦我不敢肯定啦因為我今天懷疑我如果有資料的話我早就拿出來了但查到現在很像根本都沒有查出什麼東西黃一川之際上也老陳在在你問我我是用膝蓋想的就跟我剛才講很像我用大腦想的這個道理是一樣的所以這怎麼查\n\n19\n00:07:23,294 --> 00:07:37,866\n報告委員再次強調我們5月17日到24日之間我們大數據的人潮分析的平台資料庫裡面沒有任何異常的一個存取跟使用所以剛才我們這個蔡經營副院長講說我們執政黨講的是人權\n\n20\n00:07:42,390 --> 00:08:11,336\n嘴巴是講人權肚子裡面是講人權嗎不是這麼回事啊你們現在去打開NCC你把那個電視打開藍的電視台就是藍的電視台藍的電視台不會去講綠的一句好話綠的所有電視台絕對不會去讚美藍的政治人物一句好話一句都沒有不要講半句啦一句都沒有就是壞這個台灣的人民那麼的善良\n\n21\n00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:32,586\n我最近想移民,我從來沒有這個想法在這裡晚上可以吃米粉湯、找瓜井多愉快啊,穿個拖鞋出去,治安也很好為什麼想移民?不怕死的年輕人一堆跟老公打仗那個電視每天報導的,你們沒有責任嗎?\n\n22\n00:08:37,342 --> 00:08:39,143\n我拜託大家我們共同努力真的\n\n23\n00:09:02,874 --> 00:09:23,835\n台灣不是這個樣子啊台灣沒有那麼善良的啦台灣真的已經很邪惡很罪惡感了啦立法院在開會讓立法院出去害怕能不能走出這個立法院這什麼話嘛你說說看這是個民主國家嗎你到大陸去看看你到大陸去看看有這樣的事嗎\n\n24\n00:09:24,950 --> 00:09:40,589\n總之很安全啊殺人就馬上槍斃就這麼回事我們這裡殺人死刑犯還可以待個二三十年在裡面吃老飯很舒服很愉快還有人照顧他們跟養老院一樣可以嗎好不好我們大家共勉謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1390\t26224\t好,謝謝主席,是不是請NCC陳主委、法務部黃次長、中華電信郭董各位早,本期今天這個會議把它定為國家機器有它的道理,副院長說這個定中了一點\n27728\t54737\t因為這個王毅川執行長是民進黨很重要的一個幹部那麼跟整個選舉的國家機器扯在一起所以我定位國家機器其實這一個我想請問一下我們法務部黃市長檢察官已經主動分案辦調查嘛那他這個社會那麼重視的一個案子一個大張旗鼓啊是不是\n55798\t81311\t兵分三路兵分四路嘛起碼三大業者有沒有做這樣的一個行為各位報告那這涉及到我們偵查不公開做最重要的原則了你們常常都在公開講的是偵查不公開電視裡面你看看哪一樣不公開是不是每一樣都公開啊偵查不公開是檢察官最基本的要求啦最基本的最不基本的要求哪一件不公開你講\n82605\t99033\t每一件媒體有不公開的案子嗎?你舉例說明。每一件都公開。公開的乾乾淨淨。那我是覺得他應該兵分三路、兵分八路。應該去包抄嘛。那王玉川執行長你們傳訊過他嗎?我看電視報導也沒有。\n102658\t130356\t這麼重要的一個人傳訊的話電視一定很大的字幕啊是不是各新聞媒體都頭板頭都出來了沒有啊沒看到啊各位報告他目前進行的什麼樣的偵查作為老實講我不清楚那除非該地檢署他主動發布新聞稿要不然外界那當然以你執掌的範圍你可以這麼講我想我對地檢署啊查到現在沒有任何的訊息很像真的是偵查不公開我看也不了了之啦這一件事情啊\n132162\t135785\t目前國際分公司的副總陳建志是從哪裡調來的?副總欸,國際分公司副總\n161084\t186641\t他是從我們立法院過去的助理政治任命的企通處擔任協理到現在是國際分公司的副總經理也是廣域的公務員你知道我們立法院柯總召的助理還有很多的助理跑到你們中華電信去都是高官任用你們知道嗎?董事長你知道嗎?甚至包含你本人都有可能是這樣\n188755\t196479\t我是覺得這非常可怕因為政黨屬性不同就會做其他各種的服務那大數據有買賣嗎?\n201500\t225860\t報告委員那個大數據人潮分析的部分在去識別化之後依照個人資料保護法、電信管理法等相關法令的這個在這個遵循之下那這個合法的去進行這個數據的分析他分公司的副總退休了嗎?在職你認了沒有?\n226863\t243767\t因為我在四年以前,不止四年以前,總統選舉我看過這樣的一個大數據的東西也是從電信業者,也是找我們立委說你要不要分析你的票有多少?上布在台灣整個島,點點點,綠的點藍的點,分布的很密\n249528\t271273\t我看過這個東西有人來給我推銷因為我的選區不需要這個東西我的選區的選票都在我的腦袋裡面藍的在哪裡綠的在哪裡不是我的票在哪裡我通通都知道我自己知道我不是你們的大數據我的腦袋是我的大數據所以我是說你大數據這個東西可以買賣是不是可以買賣\n274033\t280859\t在我們法規的這個允許下所進行的商業的服務最可怕的是什麼呢?\n284895\t309617\t我是執政長的某一個人,我要個資料,你能夠不給嗎?一定給嘛,是不是?郭董我跟你說的話,你什麼資料偷偷給我一下,我怎麼講是國家機器,今天講到王一川執行長,柯建民總召我也相信也是國家機器,是不是?他向你們要東西有什麼困難嗎?沒有困難的勒,既然都可以買賣了,我們也可以談不買賣嘛,是不是這樣?\n312273\t332997\t委員不會跟我索取這些不合法的我們不能依法不能提供的錢我向你索取都是合法的你能夠給我的東西也是合法的啊你會講不合法嗎那不可能嘛所以我剛才才在講啊打死你也不會招供啦是不是那還有就是這個事情發生以後你有去向你的下屬單位\n334249\t360769\t去調查到底有沒有發生這個事嗎?有沒有?報告委員我有調查調查的資料在哪裡?我們這個請同仁調查結果調查結果怎麼樣?這個大數據的人潮分析的平台在5月17日到24日之間沒有任何的異常的使用跟存取他一定講報告董事長我們底下都是依法行政絕對不會有這種狗屁倒倒的事情是不是這樣報告?\n362533\t383292\t報告委員我是請我們個人資料保護的這個單位去調查大數據單位陳主委你底下一定跟你講嘛我們都依法行政當然本來就要落實依法行政是不是這樣報告所以我講雲淡風輕嘛沒事啊委員我們還是要經過調查才有辦法去下決論嘛\n385233\t413779\t我是覺得齁你把這個大數據這樣子你可以講買賣有買賣也可以不買賣啊是不是買賣有公開的有私底下的有公的有私的什麼方式都有啊我確認王玉川執行長他不是詐騙集團喔我確認他不是詐騙集團他是真的我告訴你他的數據是有本的他的數據一定有來源的這個來源我高度的懷疑\n414471\t440931\t就是由你們中華電信的大數據出去的我懷疑是這樣我懷疑啦我不敢肯定啦因為我今天懷疑我如果有資料的話我早就拿出來了但查到現在很像根本都沒有查出什麼東西黃一川之際上也老陳在在你問我我是用膝蓋想的就跟我剛才講很像我用大腦想的這個道理是一樣的所以這怎麼查\n443294\t457866\t報告委員再次強調我們5月17日到24日之間我們大數據的人潮分析的平台資料庫裡面沒有任何異常的一個存取跟使用所以剛才我們這個蔡經營副院長講說我們執政黨講的是人權\n462390\t491336\t嘴巴是講人權肚子裡面是講人權嗎不是這麼回事啊你們現在去打開NCC你把那個電視打開藍的電視台就是藍的電視台藍的電視台不會去講綠的一句好話綠的所有電視台絕對不會去讚美藍的政治人物一句好話一句都沒有不要講半句啦一句都沒有就是壞這個台灣的人民那麼的善良\n492920\t512586\t我最近想移民,我從來沒有這個想法在這裡晚上可以吃米粉湯、找瓜井多愉快啊,穿個拖鞋出去,治安也很好為什麼想移民?不怕死的年輕人一堆跟老公打仗那個電視每天報導的,你們沒有責任嗎?\n517342\t519143\t我拜託大家我們共同努力真的\n542874\t563835\t台灣不是這個樣子啊台灣沒有那麼善良的啦台灣真的已經很邪惡很罪惡感了啦立法院在開會讓立法院出去害怕能不能走出這個立法院這什麼話嘛你說說看這是個民主國家嗎你到大陸去看看你到大陸去看看有這樣的事嗎\n564950\t580589\t總之很安全啊殺人就馬上槍斃就這麼回事我們這裡殺人死刑犯還可以待個二三十年在裡面吃老飯很舒服很愉快還有人照顧他們跟養老院一樣可以嗎好不好我們大家共勉謝謝\n","txt":"好,謝謝主席,是不是請NCC陳主委、法務部黃次長、中華電信郭董各位早,本期今天這個會議把它定為國家機器有它的道理,副院長說這個定中了一點\n因為這個王毅川執行長是民進黨很重要的一個幹部那麼跟整個選舉的國家機器扯在一起所以我定位國家機器其實這一個我想請問一下我們法務部黃市長檢察官已經主動分案辦調查嘛那他這個社會那麼重視的一個案子一個大張旗鼓啊是不是\n兵分三路兵分四路嘛起碼三大業者有沒有做這樣的一個行為各位報告那這涉及到我們偵查不公開做最重要的原則了你們常常都在公開講的是偵查不公開電視裡面你看看哪一樣不公開是不是每一樣都公開啊偵查不公開是檢察官最基本的要求啦最基本的最不基本的要求哪一件不公開你講\n每一件媒體有不公開的案子嗎?你舉例說明。每一件都公開。公開的乾乾淨淨。那我是覺得他應該兵分三路、兵分八路。應該去包抄嘛。那王玉川執行長你們傳訊過他嗎?我看電視報導也沒有。\n這麼重要的一個人傳訊的話電視一定很大的字幕啊是不是各新聞媒體都頭板頭都出來了沒有啊沒看到啊各位報告他目前進行的什麼樣的偵查作為老實講我不清楚那除非該地檢署他主動發布新聞稿要不然外界那當然以你執掌的範圍你可以這麼講我想我對地檢署啊查到現在沒有任何的訊息很像真的是偵查不公開我看也不了了之啦這一件事情啊\n目前國際分公司的副總陳建志是從哪裡調來的?副總欸,國際分公司副總\n他是從我們立法院過去的助理政治任命的企通處擔任協理到現在是國際分公司的副總經理也是廣域的公務員你知道我們立法院柯總召的助理還有很多的助理跑到你們中華電信去都是高官任用你們知道嗎?董事長你知道嗎?甚至包含你本人都有可能是這樣\n我是覺得這非常可怕因為政黨屬性不同就會做其他各種的服務那大數據有買賣嗎?\n報告委員那個大數據人潮分析的部分在去識別化之後依照個人資料保護法、電信管理法等相關法令的這個在這個遵循之下那這個合法的去進行這個數據的分析他分公司的副總退休了嗎?在職你認了沒有?\n因為我在四年以前,不止四年以前,總統選舉我看過這樣的一個大數據的東西也是從電信業者,也是找我們立委說你要不要分析你的票有多少?上布在台灣整個島,點點點,綠的點藍的點,分布的很密\n我看過這個東西有人來給我推銷因為我的選區不需要這個東西我的選區的選票都在我的腦袋裡面藍的在哪裡綠的在哪裡不是我的票在哪裡我通通都知道我自己知道我不是你們的大數據我的腦袋是我的大數據所以我是說你大數據這個東西可以買賣是不是可以買賣\n在我們法規的這個允許下所進行的商業的服務最可怕的是什麼呢?\n我是執政長的某一個人,我要個資料,你能夠不給嗎?一定給嘛,是不是?郭董我跟你說的話,你什麼資料偷偷給我一下,我怎麼講是國家機器,今天講到王一川執行長,柯建民總召我也相信也是國家機器,是不是?他向你們要東西有什麼困難嗎?沒有困難的勒,既然都可以買賣了,我們也可以談不買賣嘛,是不是這樣?\n委員不會跟我索取這些不合法的我們不能依法不能提供的錢我向你索取都是合法的你能夠給我的東西也是合法的啊你會講不合法嗎那不可能嘛所以我剛才才在講啊打死你也不會招供啦是不是那還有就是這個事情發生以後你有去向你的下屬單位\n去調查到底有沒有發生這個事嗎?有沒有?報告委員我有調查調查的資料在哪裡?我們這個請同仁調查結果調查結果怎麼樣?這個大數據的人潮分析的平台在5月17日到24日之間沒有任何的異常的使用跟存取他一定講報告董事長我們底下都是依法行政絕對不會有這種狗屁倒倒的事情是不是這樣報告?\n報告委員我是請我們個人資料保護的這個單位去調查大數據單位陳主委你底下一定跟你講嘛我們都依法行政當然本來就要落實依法行政是不是這樣報告所以我講雲淡風輕嘛沒事啊委員我們還是要經過調查才有辦法去下決論嘛\n我是覺得齁你把這個大數據這樣子你可以講買賣有買賣也可以不買賣啊是不是買賣有公開的有私底下的有公的有私的什麼方式都有啊我確認王玉川執行長他不是詐騙集團喔我確認他不是詐騙集團他是真的我告訴你他的數據是有本的他的數據一定有來源的這個來源我高度的懷疑\n就是由你們中華電信的大數據出去的我懷疑是這樣我懷疑啦我不敢肯定啦因為我今天懷疑我如果有資料的話我早就拿出來了但查到現在很像根本都沒有查出什麼東西黃一川之際上也老陳在在你問我我是用膝蓋想的就跟我剛才講很像我用大腦想的這個道理是一樣的所以這怎麼查\n報告委員再次強調我們5月17日到24日之間我們大數據的人潮分析的平台資料庫裡面沒有任何異常的一個存取跟使用所以剛才我們這個蔡經營副院長講說我們執政黨講的是人權\n嘴巴是講人權肚子裡面是講人權嗎不是這麼回事啊你們現在去打開NCC你把那個電視打開藍的電視台就是藍的電視台藍的電視台不會去講綠的一句好話綠的所有電視台絕對不會去讚美藍的政治人物一句好話一句都沒有不要講半句啦一句都沒有就是壞這個台灣的人民那麼的善良\n我最近想移民,我從來沒有這個想法在這裡晚上可以吃米粉湯、找瓜井多愉快啊,穿個拖鞋出去,治安也很好為什麼想移民?不怕死的年輕人一堆跟老公打仗那個電視每天報導的,你們沒有責任嗎?\n我拜託大家我們共同努力真的\n台灣不是這個樣子啊台灣沒有那麼善良的啦台灣真的已經很邪惡很罪惡感了啦立法院在開會讓立法院出去害怕能不能走出這個立法院這什麼話嘛你說說看這是個民主國家嗎你到大陸去看看你到大陸去看看有這樣的事嗎\n總之很安全啊殺人就馬上槍斃就這麼回事我們這裡殺人死刑犯還可以待個二三十年在裡面吃老飯很舒服很愉快還有人照顧他們跟養老院一樣可以嗎好不好我們大家共勉謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.390 --> 00:26.224\n好,謝謝主席,是不是請NCC陳主委、法務部黃次長、中華電信郭董各位早,本期今天這個會議把它定為國家機器有它的道理,副院長說這個定中了一點\n\n00:27.728 --> 00:54.737\n因為這個王毅川執行長是民進黨很重要的一個幹部那麼跟整個選舉的國家機器扯在一起所以我定位國家機器其實這一個我想請問一下我們法務部黃市長檢察官已經主動分案辦調查嘛那他這個社會那麼重視的一個案子一個大張旗鼓啊是不是\n\n00:55.798 --> 01:21.311\n兵分三路兵分四路嘛起碼三大業者有沒有做這樣的一個行為各位報告那這涉及到我們偵查不公開做最重要的原則了你們常常都在公開講的是偵查不公開電視裡面你看看哪一樣不公開是不是每一樣都公開啊偵查不公開是檢察官最基本的要求啦最基本的最不基本的要求哪一件不公開你講\n\n01:22.605 --> 01:39.033\n每一件媒體有不公開的案子嗎?你舉例說明。每一件都公開。公開的乾乾淨淨。那我是覺得他應該兵分三路、兵分八路。應該去包抄嘛。那王玉川執行長你們傳訊過他嗎?我看電視報導也沒有。\n\n01:42.658 --> 02:10.356\n這麼重要的一個人傳訊的話電視一定很大的字幕啊是不是各新聞媒體都頭板頭都出來了沒有啊沒看到啊各位報告他目前進行的什麼樣的偵查作為老實講我不清楚那除非該地檢署他主動發布新聞稿要不然外界那當然以你執掌的範圍你可以這麼講我想我對地檢署啊查到現在沒有任何的訊息很像真的是偵查不公開我看也不了了之啦這一件事情啊\n\n02:12.162 --> 02:15.785\n目前國際分公司的副總陳建志是從哪裡調來的?副總欸,國際分公司副總\n\n02:41.084 --> 03:06.641\n他是從我們立法院過去的助理政治任命的企通處擔任協理到現在是國際分公司的副總經理也是廣域的公務員你知道我們立法院柯總召的助理還有很多的助理跑到你們中華電信去都是高官任用你們知道嗎?董事長你知道嗎?甚至包含你本人都有可能是這樣\n\n03:08.755 --> 03:16.479\n我是覺得這非常可怕因為政黨屬性不同就會做其他各種的服務那大數據有買賣嗎?\n\n03:21.500 --> 03:45.860\n報告委員那個大數據人潮分析的部分在去識別化之後依照個人資料保護法、電信管理法等相關法令的這個在這個遵循之下那這個合法的去進行這個數據的分析他分公司的副總退休了嗎?在職你認了沒有?\n\n03:46.863 --> 04:03.767\n因為我在四年以前,不止四年以前,總統選舉我看過這樣的一個大數據的東西也是從電信業者,也是找我們立委說你要不要分析你的票有多少?上布在台灣整個島,點點點,綠的點藍的點,分布的很密\n\n04:09.528 --> 04:31.273\n我看過這個東西有人來給我推銷因為我的選區不需要這個東西我的選區的選票都在我的腦袋裡面藍的在哪裡綠的在哪裡不是我的票在哪裡我通通都知道我自己知道我不是你們的大數據我的腦袋是我的大數據所以我是說你大數據這個東西可以買賣是不是可以買賣\n\n04:34.033 --> 04:40.859\n在我們法規的這個允許下所進行的商業的服務最可怕的是什麼呢?\n\n04:44.895 --> 05:09.617\n我是執政長的某一個人,我要個資料,你能夠不給嗎?一定給嘛,是不是?郭董我跟你說的話,你什麼資料偷偷給我一下,我怎麼講是國家機器,今天講到王一川執行長,柯建民總召我也相信也是國家機器,是不是?他向你們要東西有什麼困難嗎?沒有困難的勒,既然都可以買賣了,我們也可以談不買賣嘛,是不是這樣?\n\n05:12.273 --> 05:32.997\n委員不會跟我索取這些不合法的我們不能依法不能提供的錢我向你索取都是合法的你能夠給我的東西也是合法的啊你會講不合法嗎那不可能嘛所以我剛才才在講啊打死你也不會招供啦是不是那還有就是這個事情發生以後你有去向你的下屬單位\n\n05:34.249 --> 06:00.769\n去調查到底有沒有發生這個事嗎?有沒有?報告委員我有調查調查的資料在哪裡?我們這個請同仁調查結果調查結果怎麼樣?這個大數據的人潮分析的平台在5月17日到24日之間沒有任何的異常的使用跟存取他一定講報告董事長我們底下都是依法行政絕對不會有這種狗屁倒倒的事情是不是這樣報告?\n\n06:02.533 --> 06:23.292\n報告委員我是請我們個人資料保護的這個單位去調查大數據單位陳主委你底下一定跟你講嘛我們都依法行政當然本來就要落實依法行政是不是這樣報告所以我講雲淡風輕嘛沒事啊委員我們還是要經過調查才有辦法去下決論嘛\n\n06:25.233 --> 06:53.779\n我是覺得齁你把這個大數據這樣子你可以講買賣有買賣也可以不買賣啊是不是買賣有公開的有私底下的有公的有私的什麼方式都有啊我確認王玉川執行長他不是詐騙集團喔我確認他不是詐騙集團他是真的我告訴你他的數據是有本的他的數據一定有來源的這個來源我高度的懷疑\n\n06:54.471 --> 07:20.931\n就是由你們中華電信的大數據出去的我懷疑是這樣我懷疑啦我不敢肯定啦因為我今天懷疑我如果有資料的話我早就拿出來了但查到現在很像根本都沒有查出什麼東西黃一川之際上也老陳在在你問我我是用膝蓋想的就跟我剛才講很像我用大腦想的這個道理是一樣的所以這怎麼查\n\n07:23.294 --> 07:37.866\n報告委員再次強調我們5月17日到24日之間我們大數據的人潮分析的平台資料庫裡面沒有任何異常的一個存取跟使用所以剛才我們這個蔡經營副院長講說我們執政黨講的是人權\n\n07:42.390 --> 08:11.336\n嘴巴是講人權肚子裡面是講人權嗎不是這麼回事啊你們現在去打開NCC你把那個電視打開藍的電視台就是藍的電視台藍的電視台不會去講綠的一句好話綠的所有電視台絕對不會去讚美藍的政治人物一句好話一句都沒有不要講半句啦一句都沒有就是壞這個台灣的人民那麼的善良\n\n08:12.920 --> 08:32.586\n我最近想移民,我從來沒有這個想法在這裡晚上可以吃米粉湯、找瓜井多愉快啊,穿個拖鞋出去,治安也很好為什麼想移民?不怕死的年輕人一堆跟老公打仗那個電視每天報導的,你們沒有責任嗎?\n\n08:37.342 --> 08:39.143\n我拜託大家我們共同努力真的\n\n09:02.874 --> 09:23.835\n台灣不是這個樣子啊台灣沒有那麼善良的啦台灣真的已經很邪惡很罪惡感了啦立法院在開會讓立法院出去害怕能不能走出這個立法院這什麼話嘛你說說看這是個民主國家嗎你到大陸去看看你到大陸去看看有這樣的事嗎\n\n09:24.950 --> 09:40.589\n總之很安全啊殺人就馬上槍斃就這麼回事我們這裡殺人死刑犯還可以待個二三十年在裡面吃老飯很舒服很愉快還有人照顧他們跟養老院一樣可以嗎好不好我們大家共勉謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.39,"end":26.224,"text":"好,謝謝主席,是不是請NCC陳主委、法務部黃次長、中華電信郭董各位早,本期今天這個會議把它定為國家機器有它的道理,副院長說這個定中了一點"},{"start":27.728,"end":54.737,"text":"因為這個王毅川執行長是民進黨很重要的一個幹部那麼跟整個選舉的國家機器扯在一起所以我定位國家機器其實這一個我想請問一下我們法務部黃市長檢察官已經主動分案辦調查嘛那他這個社會那麼重視的一個案子一個大張旗鼓啊是不是"},{"start":55.798,"end":81.311,"text":"兵分三路兵分四路嘛起碼三大業者有沒有做這樣的一個行為各位報告那這涉及到我們偵查不公開做最重要的原則了你們常常都在公開講的是偵查不公開電視裡面你看看哪一樣不公開是不是每一樣都公開啊偵查不公開是檢察官最基本的要求啦最基本的最不基本的要求哪一件不公開你講"},{"start":82.605,"end":99.033,"text":"每一件媒體有不公開的案子嗎?你舉例說明。每一件都公開。公開的乾乾淨淨。那我是覺得他應該兵分三路、兵分八路。應該去包抄嘛。那王玉川執行長你們傳訊過他嗎?我看電視報導也沒有。"},{"start":102.658,"end":130.356,"text":"這麼重要的一個人傳訊的話電視一定很大的字幕啊是不是各新聞媒體都頭板頭都出來了沒有啊沒看到啊各位報告他目前進行的什麼樣的偵查作為老實講我不清楚那除非該地檢署他主動發布新聞稿要不然外界那當然以你執掌的範圍你可以這麼講我想我對地檢署啊查到現在沒有任何的訊息很像真的是偵查不公開我看也不了了之啦這一件事情啊"},{"start":132.162,"end":135.785,"text":"目前國際分公司的副總陳建志是從哪裡調來的?副總欸,國際分公司副總"},{"start":161.084,"end":186.641,"text":"他是從我們立法院過去的助理政治任命的企通處擔任協理到現在是國際分公司的副總經理也是廣域的公務員你知道我們立法院柯總召的助理還有很多的助理跑到你們中華電信去都是高官任用你們知道嗎?董事長你知道嗎?甚至包含你本人都有可能是這樣"},{"start":188.755,"end":196.479,"text":"我是覺得這非常可怕因為政黨屬性不同就會做其他各種的服務那大數據有買賣嗎?"},{"start":201.5,"end":225.86,"text":"報告委員那個大數據人潮分析的部分在去識別化之後依照個人資料保護法、電信管理法等相關法令的這個在這個遵循之下那這個合法的去進行這個數據的分析他分公司的副總退休了嗎?在職你認了沒有?"},{"start":226.863,"end":243.767,"text":"因為我在四年以前,不止四年以前,總統選舉我看過這樣的一個大數據的東西也是從電信業者,也是找我們立委說你要不要分析你的票有多少?上布在台灣整個島,點點點,綠的點藍的點,分布的很密"},{"start":249.528,"end":271.273,"text":"我看過這個東西有人來給我推銷因為我的選區不需要這個東西我的選區的選票都在我的腦袋裡面藍的在哪裡綠的在哪裡不是我的票在哪裡我通通都知道我自己知道我不是你們的大數據我的腦袋是我的大數據所以我是說你大數據這個東西可以買賣是不是可以買賣"},{"start":274.033,"end":280.859,"text":"在我們法規的這個允許下所進行的商業的服務最可怕的是什麼呢?"},{"start":284.895,"end":309.617,"text":"我是執政長的某一個人,我要個資料,你能夠不給嗎?一定給嘛,是不是?郭董我跟你說的話,你什麼資料偷偷給我一下,我怎麼講是國家機器,今天講到王一川執行長,柯建民總召我也相信也是國家機器,是不是?他向你們要東西有什麼困難嗎?沒有困難的勒,既然都可以買賣了,我們也可以談不買賣嘛,是不是這樣?"},{"start":312.273,"end":332.997,"text":"委員不會跟我索取這些不合法的我們不能依法不能提供的錢我向你索取都是合法的你能夠給我的東西也是合法的啊你會講不合法嗎那不可能嘛所以我剛才才在講啊打死你也不會招供啦是不是那還有就是這個事情發生以後你有去向你的下屬單位"},{"start":334.249,"end":360.769,"text":"去調查到底有沒有發生這個事嗎?有沒有?報告委員我有調查調查的資料在哪裡?我們這個請同仁調查結果調查結果怎麼樣?這個大數據的人潮分析的平台在5月17日到24日之間沒有任何的異常的使用跟存取他一定講報告董事長我們底下都是依法行政絕對不會有這種狗屁倒倒的事情是不是這樣報告?"},{"start":362.533,"end":383.292,"text":"報告委員我是請我們個人資料保護的這個單位去調查大數據單位陳主委你底下一定跟你講嘛我們都依法行政當然本來就要落實依法行政是不是這樣報告所以我講雲淡風輕嘛沒事啊委員我們還是要經過調查才有辦法去下決論嘛"},{"start":385.233,"end":413.779,"text":"我是覺得齁你把這個大數據這樣子你可以講買賣有買賣也可以不買賣啊是不是買賣有公開的有私底下的有公的有私的什麼方式都有啊我確認王玉川執行長他不是詐騙集團喔我確認他不是詐騙集團他是真的我告訴你他的數據是有本的他的數據一定有來源的這個來源我高度的懷疑"},{"start":414.471,"end":440.931,"text":"就是由你們中華電信的大數據出去的我懷疑是這樣我懷疑啦我不敢肯定啦因為我今天懷疑我如果有資料的話我早就拿出來了但查到現在很像根本都沒有查出什麼東西黃一川之際上也老陳在在你問我我是用膝蓋想的就跟我剛才講很像我用大腦想的這個道理是一樣的所以這怎麼查"},{"start":443.294,"end":457.866,"text":"報告委員再次強調我們5月17日到24日之間我們大數據的人潮分析的平台資料庫裡面沒有任何異常的一個存取跟使用所以剛才我們這個蔡經營副院長講說我們執政黨講的是人權"},{"start":462.39,"end":491.336,"text":"嘴巴是講人權肚子裡面是講人權嗎不是這麼回事啊你們現在去打開NCC你把那個電視打開藍的電視台就是藍的電視台藍的電視台不會去講綠的一句好話綠的所有電視台絕對不會去讚美藍的政治人物一句好話一句都沒有不要講半句啦一句都沒有就是壞這個台灣的人民那麼的善良"},{"start":492.92,"end":512.586,"text":"我最近想移民,我從來沒有這個想法在這裡晚上可以吃米粉湯、找瓜井多愉快啊,穿個拖鞋出去,治安也很好為什麼想移民?不怕死的年輕人一堆跟老公打仗那個電視每天報導的,你們沒有責任嗎?"},{"start":517.342,"end":519.143,"text":"我拜託大家我們共同努力真的"},{"start":542.874,"end":563.835,"text":"台灣不是這個樣子啊台灣沒有那麼善良的啦台灣真的已經很邪惡很罪惡感了啦立法院在開會讓立法院出去害怕能不能走出這個立法院這什麼話嘛你說說看這是個民主國家嗎你到大陸去看看你到大陸去看看有這樣的事嗎"},{"start":564.95,"end":580.589,"text":"總之很安全啊殺人就馬上槍斃就這麼回事我們這裡殺人死刑犯還可以待個二三十年在裡面吃老飯很舒服很愉快還有人照顧他們跟養老院一樣可以嗎好不好我們大家共勉謝謝"}]}}}}