{"id":153464,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153464","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2dd358c888e2c7078700494691005a5059c493b59145da8fe7a5eaa3f1fb9be2250870e6442c78765ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐巧芯","委員發言時間":"12:13:34 - 12:21:58","影片長度":"00:08:24","會議時間":"2024-06-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、法務部、個人資料保護委員會籌備處及中華電信股份有限公司就「國家機器以手機定位、分析個資特性等方式侵犯人民權益」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【6月3日及6日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-06-03","start_time":"2024-06-03T12:13:34+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-03T12:21:58+08:00","duration":504,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1139,"blocks":[["徐委員巧芯：（12時13分）謝謝主席，我想請NCC、法務部跟中華電信一起上台備詢好嗎？"],["主席：黃次長、郭董事長。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員好。"],["徐委員巧芯：陳主委，先問一下您的膝蓋還好嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：膝蓋應該很好。"],["徐委員巧芯：很好，那你可以透過你的膝蓋算得出大數據人流比例，以及賴清德總統的造勢晚會，跟519、527三場活動的小草跟青鳥的分析嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這應該是要用客觀的數據去處理。"],["徐委員巧芯：膝蓋算得出來嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：膝蓋應該是算不出來。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，那等於說王義川最近在唬爛嘛！在電視臺上面唬爛，NCC有沒有相關的一些罰則？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：如果有違反事實查證，那當然會有罰則。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，我們看一下PowerPoint，他當時一開始說他從分析的資料來看，而且他講到幾個關鍵字，他有講到基地臺、訊號、資料、分析、比對，而且他是比對三場不同的活動，就如同我剛剛所說的那樣子，我想請問陳主委，他這樣的說法有可能性存在對吧！因為我問過國安局長，包含是當時疫情期間的建置系統，還有包含幾位數發部都說這樣子是有可行性，只是很難取得，請問主委是這樣嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：技術上來講的話，當然有可能。"],["徐委員巧芯：技術上是這樣子對不對？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：但是法規上要這樣做恐怕有困難。"],["徐委員巧芯：法規上這樣做很難嘛！當時我問了，2020年的時候因為疫情，NCC跟電信三雄一起建立了一個系統，那個系統照理來說只能保存資料28天，而且我問過，你們現在也已經沒有在使用了，那我要怎麼樣排除已經建置的系統沒有被拿去其他地方重新去做濫用？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我們當時在疫情期間有三個，第一個就是疫調輔助系統，第二個是電子圍籬，第三個是簡訊系統。"],["徐委員巧芯：這我都知道，我想要問的是濫用的部分要怎麼樣去……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這個資料我們全部刪除，我們也有去稽核。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以未來如果有需要，要整個重建才行是嗎？還是系統仍然存在，只是我們現在停止傳輸？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：如果未來有大型的，那可能要重建，因為每次……"],["徐委員巧芯：可能要重建？你要跟我講確定的，不是「可能」，就是這個系統是否還在？舉例來說，像當時已經取消數位身分證這個政策的時候，它的整個系統是保留之外，它還持續必須運作，但是計畫已經停止了。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有、沒有。"],["徐委員巧芯：我想要詢問這個系統是已經完全銷毀？還是我們現在已經不再使用？這是兩件事。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：資料銷毀了。"],["徐委員巧芯：系統？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：系統停止了。"],["徐委員巧芯：系統停止還是銷毀？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有、沒有，資料才有銷毀的問題，系統已經停……"],["徐委員巧芯：系統怎麼樣？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：請那個……"],["郭董事長水義：報告委員，資料在NCC的監督下銷毀……"],["徐委員巧芯：資料知道了，系統怎麼樣啦！"],["郭董事長水義：系統我們已經下架。"],["徐委員巧芯：下架？下架是指銷毀它還是暫時下架？下架是什麼意思？可以給我們一個清楚的定義，什麼叫下架？"],["郭董事長水義：就是已經沒有在我們的……"],["徐委員巧芯：沒有再傳輸？什麼是下架？你講清楚一點，下架的定義是什麼？你這樣的說法就跟王義川那個膝蓋沒什麼兩樣，下架是什麼意思？"],["郭董事長水義：我們系統已經下線，公司已經沒有這個系統。"],["徐委員巧芯：公司沒有這個系統？所以如果今天又有疫情來的話，要全數重建？"],["郭董事長水義：對，重建。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，那我再問一下，我們看下一張投影片，我想要請問一下NCC主委還有中華電信，請問在521當天，你們有沒有協助在這個公民運動裡面幫忙他們去調基地臺？"],["郭董事長水義：報告委員，那天因為陳情的民眾比較多，我們有接到包括委員還有民眾……"],["徐委員巧芯：什麼委員？"],["郭董事長水義：立法委員。"],["徐委員巧芯：立法委員？"],["郭董事長水義：對。"],["徐委員巧芯：民進黨的立法委員？"],["郭董事長水義：是的。"],["徐委員巧芯：然後要求你們協助增加基地臺？"],["郭董事長水義：還有包括一些我們得到一些……"],["徐委員巧芯：得到什麼？"],["郭董事長水義：外部單位……"],["徐委員巧芯：外部單位是誰？"],["郭董事長水義：我是說我們有得到一些希望我們能夠加強訊號，所以我們……"],["徐委員巧芯：誰希望？剛剛有講民進黨的立委嘛！還有誰希望你們加強訊號？"],["郭董事長水義：這個主辦單位那邊……"],["徐委員巧芯：主辦單位可以要求中華電信加強訊號，我們就要去配合加強訊號？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：報告委員，所有的大型活動包括燈會，或是像這種集會，因為人多，所以電話訊號會比較壅塞，電信業者也不是只有中華電信，都會……"],["徐委員巧芯：不是只有中華電信，我知道啊！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：對。"],["徐委員巧芯：上面有寫嘛！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：行動通訊基地臺……"],["徐委員巧芯：所以說誰可以去要求？誰可以去提出要求？用戶都可以去提出要求？需不需要申請？有沒有申請單？"],["郭董事長水義：沒有。"],["徐委員巧芯：我今天如果辦一個集會遊行，那我需不需要向你填申請單？我作為一個普通民眾，不是立法委員的話，不需要？"],["郭董事長水義：我們通常對於人潮聚集……"],["徐委員巧芯：自己自發性的會去……"],["郭董事長水義：人潮聚集比較多的地方，我們會為了服務民眾方便的話……"],["徐委員巧芯：服務民眾方便，所以不需要……所以你只要隨機看電視，看到那裡在辦集會，遊行人很多，你們就會自己跑過去幫它增加訊號？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：因為這是客戶、用戶的問題，我們會要求比如說它提供的行動通訊要有一定的品質。"],["徐委員巧芯：什麼一定的品質？我的問題不是這個嘛！我的問題是，你是否看電視，只要看到有一個地方在集會遊行，人很多，你們自己就會跑過去開基地臺，幫它增加訊號嗎？需不需要申請？"],["郭董事長水義：跟委員報告，像白沙屯媽祖繞境，還有燈會的活動，我們都是……"],["徐委員巧芯：他們有沒有申請？他們有沒有提前跟你們溝通？"],["郭董事長水義：我們都是主動加強服務。"],["徐委員巧芯：你們主動去。所以這個人講的是真的，有電信業者，而且是三大電信，而且電信業者副總說，你們為了521的公民行動而調出更多基地臺確保訊號，這件事情是真實的？"],["郭董事長水義：我們確實有增加基地臺的布建，讓整個……"],["徐委員巧芯：好，我們再看上一張。所以大家才會懷疑嘛！所以大家才會懷疑這跟基地臺有沒有關係嘛！我知道這是兩件事，前面那是5月24號就有人講的，現在他在電視上講這個，不是膝蓋喔！是5月27號講的，所以大家才會懷疑是不是有被濫用，是不是有國家監控的問題嘛！最後我只問一下法務部，等一下，不好意思，主席再給我30秒，好不好？","我問一下NCC，你們剛剛在跟王鴻薇委員問答的時候說電信業者沒有販售資料給所謂的政治人物或政黨，是不是？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：就是說這個事情裡面……"],["徐委員巧芯：不是這個事情，我是說電信業者有沒有販售資料給政治人物？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：一般來講的話……"],["徐委員巧芯：你剛剛說沒有。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有、沒有，我說我們5月30號那時候查，他們說沒有販賣給政黨或特定個人。"],["徐委員巧芯：我是說所有的喔！不是針對21號的行動。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這是商業用途，我請中華電信……"],["徐委員巧芯：來，中華電信講，因為不一定是中華電信嘛！所以我不想請中華電信回答，因為說不定它沒有啊！"],["郭董事長水義：確實沒有。"],["徐委員巧芯：來，我直接唸給你聽好不好？我在選舉的時候就有收到某一家的資料庫，它可以篩選選區戶籍地、發簡訊，價錢多少我就不說了，而且我跟國安局質詢的時候，他們有回復我說，電信業者確實有做package去賣給包含政黨或個人，這樣子的情況，請問主委是可以的嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：報告委員，基本上你要看到底是電信業者，還是簡訊業者？這兩種是不一樣的。"],["徐委員巧芯：電信業者。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：好，電信業者如果數據已經是去識別化，不是個資的話，是可以……"],["徐委員巧芯：是可以的嘛！OK！所以嘛，你剛剛回答鴻薇委員就不對了嘛！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：沒有、沒有，我剛剛講的是這一次，比如說……"],["徐委員巧芯：所以你話要講清楚嘛！那我也告訴你，我們也已經具名再檢舉一次王義川先生在網路上面的言論。以上，謝謝。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝徐巧芯委員。接下來邱若華委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":380,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-15","speakers":["陳雪生","林沛祥","李昆澤","黃健豪","林國成","林俊憲","蔡其昌","魯明哲","徐富癸","許智傑","陳素月","羅智強","游顥","翁曉玲","何欣純","王鴻薇","徐巧芯","邱若華","吳宗憲","洪孟楷","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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00:01:18,961\n我們如果說有違反事實查證那當然會有罰則好,所以我們看一下PowerPoint好不好這個呢他當時一開始說他從分析的資料來看而且他講到幾個關鍵字他有講到呢基地台、訊號、資料、分析、比對而且他是比對三場不同的活動就如同我剛剛所說的那樣子我想請問陳主委他這樣的說法有可能性存在對吧\n\n4\n00:01:19,301 --> 00:01:33,997\n因為包含是我問過國安局長包含是這個當時疫情期間的建制系統還有包含是幾位書發部都說這樣子是有可行性只是很難取得請問主委是這樣嗎\n\n5\n00:01:34,969 --> 00:01:36,329\n徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯\n\n6\n00:01:54,514 --> 00:02:16,169\n那我要怎麼樣排除說已經建制的系統他沒有被拿去其他的地方重新的去做濫用我們當時在疫情時有三個第一個就是疫調輔助系統第二個是電子維理第三個是簡訊系統這我都知道我想要問的是濫用的部分要怎麼樣去這個資料我們全部刪除所以未來如果需要整個重建才行是嗎\n\n7\n00:02:16,989 --> 00:02:45,676\n還是系統仍然存在只是我們現在停止傳輸?可能要重建你要跟我講確定的不是可能就是這個系統是否還在因為舉例來說像當時數位身分證已經取消這個政策的時候它的整個系統是保留之外它還持續必須運作但是計劃已經停止了我想要詢問這個系統是已經完全銷毀還是我們現在已經不再使用這是兩件事資料銷毀了\n\n8\n00:02:47,156 --> 00:02:48,777\n徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯\n\n9\n00:03:08,007 --> 00:03:35,918\n下架是什麼意思?可以給我們一個清楚的定義什麼叫下架?就我們已經沒有在我們的公司沒有在傳輸還什麼是下架啦你講清楚一點下架定義是什麼?你這麼說好像跟那個王一川那個膝蓋沒什麼兩樣下架是什麼意思?我們系統已經下線公司已經沒有這個系統公司沒有這個系統所以如果今天又有疫情來的話要全數重建重建好那我再問一下我們看下一張投影片\n\n10\n00:03:37,236 --> 00:03:58,932\n我想要請問一下NCC主委還有貓眼中華電信請問在521當天你們有沒有協助在這個公民運動裡面幫忙他們去吊雞地台報告委員那天因為陳情的民眾比較多我們有接到包括這個委員還有這個什麼委員\n\n11\n00:04:03,238 --> 00:04:27,609\n立法委員民進黨的立法委員是的然後要求你們協助增加基地台還有包括一些我們得到的一些外部單位外部單位是誰我是說我們在現得到一些希望說我們能夠加強訊號誰希望剛剛有講民進黨的立委嗎還有誰希望你們加強訊號\n\n12\n00:04:31,700 --> 00:04:58,589\n主辦單位可以要求中華電信加強訊號我們就要去配合加強訊號那個所有大型活動包括燈會或是像這種集會因為他的人多所以他的電話訊號都會比較用塞所以電信業者也不是只有中華電信不是只有中華電信我知道啊上面有寫嘛那所以說誰可以去要求誰可以去提出要求貨物戶都可以去提出要求需不需要申請\n\n13\n00:05:00,089 --> 00:05:27,657\n有沒有申請單沒有那我今天如果辦一個集會遊行那我需不需要向你填申請單我作為一個普通民眾不是立法委員的話不需要我們通常對於人潮聚集自己自發性的會去人潮聚集比較多的地方我們會為了服務民眾方便的話服務民眾方便所以不需要所以你只要就是隨機看電視看到說那裡在辦集會遊行人很多你們就會自己跑過去幫他增加訊號\n\n14\n00:05:28,877 --> 00:05:57,716\n如果因為這個是客戶用戶的問題我們會要求他的提比如說他提供這個所謂行動通訊要有一定的品質什麼一定的品質我的問題不是這個嘛我問題是你是否看電視只要看到有一個地方集會遊行人很多你們自己就會跑過去開基地台幫他增加訊號嗎局部需要申請嗎跟委員報告像這個媽祖遶境白沙屯媽祖遶境還有燈會的活動他們有沒有申請他們有沒有提前跟你們溝通\n\n15\n00:05:58,576 --> 00:06:00,337\n我們確實有這個增加這個基地台的部件讓整個這個好我們再看上一張\n\n16\n00:06:24,835 --> 00:06:53,720\n所以大家才會懷疑嘛所以大家才會懷疑說這跟基地台有沒有關係嘛前面那個是5月2...我知道這是兩件事前面那是5月24號就有人講的現在他講這個在電視上講不是膝蓋喔是5月27號講的所以大家才會懷疑說是不是有被濫用是不是有國家監控的問題嘛最後我只問一下這個法務部好我...等一下等一下不好意思主席再給我30秒好不好我問一下那個NCC齁\n\n17\n00:06:54,540 --> 00:07:11,329\n就是說你們剛剛講說業者跟網紅位委員在問答的時候說業者沒有電信業者沒有販售資料給這個所謂的政治人物或政黨是不是就是說這個事情裡面不是這個事情我是說電信業者有沒有販售資料給政治人物\n\n18\n00:07:11,949 --> 00:07:23,839\n一般來講的話你剛剛說沒有沒有沒有我說我們5月30日那時候查他們說沒有放給發賣給政黨或特定個人不是是說所有的喔就是不是針對這個21號的行動來中華電信講因為不一定是中華電信嘛所以我不想請中華電信回來因為說不定他沒有啊來我直接唸給你聽好不好\n\n19\n00:07:33,166 --> 00:07:53,721\n我在選舉的時候就有收到某一家的資料庫他可以篩選選區戶集地發簡訊價錢多少我就不說了而且我跟國安局質詢的時候他們有回復我說電信業者確實有做package去賣給包含是政黨或個人但這樣子的情況請問主委是可以的嗎\n\n20\n00:07:54,782 --> 00:07:56,983\n王毅川先生在網路上面的言論以上謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7813\t17945\t謝謝主席。我想請我們NCC、法務部跟中華電信一起,好嗎?好,陳主委,請問一下,先生問一下您的膝蓋還好嗎?\n27350\t28211\t徐巧芯徐巧芯\n54151\t78961\t我們如果說有違反事實查證那當然會有罰則好,所以我們看一下PowerPoint好不好這個呢他當時一開始說他從分析的資料來看而且他講到幾個關鍵字他有講到呢基地台、訊號、資料、分析、比對而且他是比對三場不同的活動就如同我剛剛所說的那樣子我想請問陳主委他這樣的說法有可能性存在對吧\n79301\t93997\t因為包含是我問過國安局長包含是這個當時疫情期間的建制系統還有包含是幾位書發部都說這樣子是有可行性只是很難取得請問主委是這樣嗎\n94969\t96329\t徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯\n114514\t136169\t那我要怎麼樣排除說已經建制的系統他沒有被拿去其他的地方重新的去做濫用我們當時在疫情時有三個第一個就是疫調輔助系統第二個是電子維理第三個是簡訊系統這我都知道我想要問的是濫用的部分要怎麼樣去這個資料我們全部刪除所以未來如果需要整個重建才行是嗎\n136989\t165676\t還是系統仍然存在只是我們現在停止傳輸?可能要重建你要跟我講確定的不是可能就是這個系統是否還在因為舉例來說像當時數位身分證已經取消這個政策的時候它的整個系統是保留之外它還持續必須運作但是計劃已經停止了我想要詢問這個系統是已經完全銷毀還是我們現在已經不再使用這是兩件事資料銷毀了\n167156\t168777\t徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯\n188007\t215918\t下架是什麼意思?可以給我們一個清楚的定義什麼叫下架?就我們已經沒有在我們的公司沒有在傳輸還什麼是下架啦你講清楚一點下架定義是什麼?你這麼說好像跟那個王一川那個膝蓋沒什麼兩樣下架是什麼意思?我們系統已經下線公司已經沒有這個系統公司沒有這個系統所以如果今天又有疫情來的話要全數重建重建好那我再問一下我們看下一張投影片\n217236\t238932\t我想要請問一下NCC主委還有貓眼中華電信請問在521當天你們有沒有協助在這個公民運動裡面幫忙他們去吊雞地台報告委員那天因為陳情的民眾比較多我們有接到包括這個委員還有這個什麼委員\n243238\t267609\t立法委員民進黨的立法委員是的然後要求你們協助增加基地台還有包括一些我們得到的一些外部單位外部單位是誰我是說我們在現得到一些希望說我們能夠加強訊號誰希望剛剛有講民進黨的立委嗎還有誰希望你們加強訊號\n271700\t298589\t主辦單位可以要求中華電信加強訊號我們就要去配合加強訊號那個所有大型活動包括燈會或是像這種集會因為他的人多所以他的電話訊號都會比較用塞所以電信業者也不是只有中華電信不是只有中華電信我知道啊上面有寫嘛那所以說誰可以去要求誰可以去提出要求貨物戶都可以去提出要求需不需要申請\n300089\t327657\t有沒有申請單沒有那我今天如果辦一個集會遊行那我需不需要向你填申請單我作為一個普通民眾不是立法委員的話不需要我們通常對於人潮聚集自己自發性的會去人潮聚集比較多的地方我們會為了服務民眾方便的話服務民眾方便所以不需要所以你只要就是隨機看電視看到說那裡在辦集會遊行人很多你們就會自己跑過去幫他增加訊號\n328877\t357716\t如果因為這個是客戶用戶的問題我們會要求他的提比如說他提供這個所謂行動通訊要有一定的品質什麼一定的品質我的問題不是這個嘛我問題是你是否看電視只要看到有一個地方集會遊行人很多你們自己就會跑過去開基地台幫他增加訊號嗎局部需要申請嗎跟委員報告像這個媽祖遶境白沙屯媽祖遶境還有燈會的活動他們有沒有申請他們有沒有提前跟你們溝通\n358576\t360337\t我們確實有這個增加這個基地台的部件讓整個這個好我們再看上一張\n384835\t413720\t所以大家才會懷疑嘛所以大家才會懷疑說這跟基地台有沒有關係嘛前面那個是5月2...我知道這是兩件事前面那是5月24號就有人講的現在他講這個在電視上講不是膝蓋喔是5月27號講的所以大家才會懷疑說是不是有被濫用是不是有國家監控的問題嘛最後我只問一下這個法務部好我...等一下等一下不好意思主席再給我30秒好不好我問一下那個NCC齁\n414540\t431329\t就是說你們剛剛講說業者跟網紅位委員在問答的時候說業者沒有電信業者沒有販售資料給這個所謂的政治人物或政黨是不是就是說這個事情裡面不是這個事情我是說電信業者有沒有販售資料給政治人物\n431949\t443839\t一般來講的話你剛剛說沒有沒有沒有我說我們5月30日那時候查他們說沒有放給發賣給政黨或特定個人不是是說所有的喔就是不是針對這個21號的行動來中華電信講因為不一定是中華電信嘛所以我不想請中華電信回來因為說不定他沒有啊來我直接唸給你聽好不好\n453166\t473721\t我在選舉的時候就有收到某一家的資料庫他可以篩選選區戶集地發簡訊價錢多少我就不說了而且我跟國安局質詢的時候他們有回復我說電信業者確實有做package去賣給包含是政黨或個人但這樣子的情況請問主委是可以的嗎\n474782\t476983\t王毅川先生在網路上面的言論以上謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席。我想請我們NCC、法務部跟中華電信一起,好嗎?好,陳主委,請問一下,先生問一下您的膝蓋還好嗎?\n徐巧芯徐巧芯\n我們如果說有違反事實查證那當然會有罰則好,所以我們看一下PowerPoint好不好這個呢他當時一開始說他從分析的資料來看而且他講到幾個關鍵字他有講到呢基地台、訊號、資料、分析、比對而且他是比對三場不同的活動就如同我剛剛所說的那樣子我想請問陳主委他這樣的說法有可能性存在對吧\n因為包含是我問過國安局長包含是這個當時疫情期間的建制系統還有包含是幾位書發部都說這樣子是有可行性只是很難取得請問主委是這樣嗎\n徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯\n那我要怎麼樣排除說已經建制的系統他沒有被拿去其他的地方重新的去做濫用我們當時在疫情時有三個第一個就是疫調輔助系統第二個是電子維理第三個是簡訊系統這我都知道我想要問的是濫用的部分要怎麼樣去這個資料我們全部刪除所以未來如果需要整個重建才行是嗎\n還是系統仍然存在只是我們現在停止傳輸?可能要重建你要跟我講確定的不是可能就是這個系統是否還在因為舉例來說像當時數位身分證已經取消這個政策的時候它的整個系統是保留之外它還持續必須運作但是計劃已經停止了我想要詢問這個系統是已經完全銷毀還是我們現在已經不再使用這是兩件事資料銷毀了\n徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯\n下架是什麼意思?可以給我們一個清楚的定義什麼叫下架?就我們已經沒有在我們的公司沒有在傳輸還什麼是下架啦你講清楚一點下架定義是什麼?你這麼說好像跟那個王一川那個膝蓋沒什麼兩樣下架是什麼意思?我們系統已經下線公司已經沒有這個系統公司沒有這個系統所以如果今天又有疫情來的話要全數重建重建好那我再問一下我們看下一張投影片\n我想要請問一下NCC主委還有貓眼中華電信請問在521當天你們有沒有協助在這個公民運動裡面幫忙他們去吊雞地台報告委員那天因為陳情的民眾比較多我們有接到包括這個委員還有這個什麼委員\n立法委員民進黨的立法委員是的然後要求你們協助增加基地台還有包括一些我們得到的一些外部單位外部單位是誰我是說我們在現得到一些希望說我們能夠加強訊號誰希望剛剛有講民進黨的立委嗎還有誰希望你們加強訊號\n主辦單位可以要求中華電信加強訊號我們就要去配合加強訊號那個所有大型活動包括燈會或是像這種集會因為他的人多所以他的電話訊號都會比較用塞所以電信業者也不是只有中華電信不是只有中華電信我知道啊上面有寫嘛那所以說誰可以去要求誰可以去提出要求貨物戶都可以去提出要求需不需要申請\n有沒有申請單沒有那我今天如果辦一個集會遊行那我需不需要向你填申請單我作為一個普通民眾不是立法委員的話不需要我們通常對於人潮聚集自己自發性的會去人潮聚集比較多的地方我們會為了服務民眾方便的話服務民眾方便所以不需要所以你只要就是隨機看電視看到說那裡在辦集會遊行人很多你們就會自己跑過去幫他增加訊號\n如果因為這個是客戶用戶的問題我們會要求他的提比如說他提供這個所謂行動通訊要有一定的品質什麼一定的品質我的問題不是這個嘛我問題是你是否看電視只要看到有一個地方集會遊行人很多你們自己就會跑過去開基地台幫他增加訊號嗎局部需要申請嗎跟委員報告像這個媽祖遶境白沙屯媽祖遶境還有燈會的活動他們有沒有申請他們有沒有提前跟你們溝通\n我們確實有這個增加這個基地台的部件讓整個這個好我們再看上一張\n所以大家才會懷疑嘛所以大家才會懷疑說這跟基地台有沒有關係嘛前面那個是5月2...我知道這是兩件事前面那是5月24號就有人講的現在他講這個在電視上講不是膝蓋喔是5月27號講的所以大家才會懷疑說是不是有被濫用是不是有國家監控的問題嘛最後我只問一下這個法務部好我...等一下等一下不好意思主席再給我30秒好不好我問一下那個NCC齁\n就是說你們剛剛講說業者跟網紅位委員在問答的時候說業者沒有電信業者沒有販售資料給這個所謂的政治人物或政黨是不是就是說這個事情裡面不是這個事情我是說電信業者有沒有販售資料給政治人物\n一般來講的話你剛剛說沒有沒有沒有我說我們5月30日那時候查他們說沒有放給發賣給政黨或特定個人不是是說所有的喔就是不是針對這個21號的行動來中華電信講因為不一定是中華電信嘛所以我不想請中華電信回來因為說不定他沒有啊來我直接唸給你聽好不好\n我在選舉的時候就有收到某一家的資料庫他可以篩選選區戶集地發簡訊價錢多少我就不說了而且我跟國安局質詢的時候他們有回復我說電信業者確實有做package去賣給包含是政黨或個人但這樣子的情況請問主委是可以的嗎\n王毅川先生在網路上面的言論以上謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.813 --> 00:17.945\n謝謝主席。我想請我們NCC、法務部跟中華電信一起,好嗎?好,陳主委,請問一下,先生問一下您的膝蓋還好嗎?\n\n00:27.350 --> 00:28.211\n徐巧芯徐巧芯\n\n00:54.151 --> 01:18.961\n我們如果說有違反事實查證那當然會有罰則好,所以我們看一下PowerPoint好不好這個呢他當時一開始說他從分析的資料來看而且他講到幾個關鍵字他有講到呢基地台、訊號、資料、分析、比對而且他是比對三場不同的活動就如同我剛剛所說的那樣子我想請問陳主委他這樣的說法有可能性存在對吧\n\n01:19.301 --> 01:33.997\n因為包含是我問過國安局長包含是這個當時疫情期間的建制系統還有包含是幾位書發部都說這樣子是有可行性只是很難取得請問主委是這樣嗎\n\n01:34.969 --> 01:36.329\n徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯\n\n01:54.514 --> 02:16.169\n那我要怎麼樣排除說已經建制的系統他沒有被拿去其他的地方重新的去做濫用我們當時在疫情時有三個第一個就是疫調輔助系統第二個是電子維理第三個是簡訊系統這我都知道我想要問的是濫用的部分要怎麼樣去這個資料我們全部刪除所以未來如果需要整個重建才行是嗎\n\n02:16.989 --> 02:45.676\n還是系統仍然存在只是我們現在停止傳輸?可能要重建你要跟我講確定的不是可能就是這個系統是否還在因為舉例來說像當時數位身分證已經取消這個政策的時候它的整個系統是保留之外它還持續必須運作但是計劃已經停止了我想要詢問這個系統是已經完全銷毀還是我們現在已經不再使用這是兩件事資料銷毀了\n\n02:47.156 --> 02:48.777\n徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯\n\n03:08.007 --> 03:35.918\n下架是什麼意思?可以給我們一個清楚的定義什麼叫下架?就我們已經沒有在我們的公司沒有在傳輸還什麼是下架啦你講清楚一點下架定義是什麼?你這麼說好像跟那個王一川那個膝蓋沒什麼兩樣下架是什麼意思?我們系統已經下線公司已經沒有這個系統公司沒有這個系統所以如果今天又有疫情來的話要全數重建重建好那我再問一下我們看下一張投影片\n\n03:37.236 --> 03:58.932\n我想要請問一下NCC主委還有貓眼中華電信請問在521當天你們有沒有協助在這個公民運動裡面幫忙他們去吊雞地台報告委員那天因為陳情的民眾比較多我們有接到包括這個委員還有這個什麼委員\n\n04:03.238 --> 04:27.609\n立法委員民進黨的立法委員是的然後要求你們協助增加基地台還有包括一些我們得到的一些外部單位外部單位是誰我是說我們在現得到一些希望說我們能夠加強訊號誰希望剛剛有講民進黨的立委嗎還有誰希望你們加強訊號\n\n04:31.700 --> 04:58.589\n主辦單位可以要求中華電信加強訊號我們就要去配合加強訊號那個所有大型活動包括燈會或是像這種集會因為他的人多所以他的電話訊號都會比較用塞所以電信業者也不是只有中華電信不是只有中華電信我知道啊上面有寫嘛那所以說誰可以去要求誰可以去提出要求貨物戶都可以去提出要求需不需要申請\n\n05:00.089 --> 05:27.657\n有沒有申請單沒有那我今天如果辦一個集會遊行那我需不需要向你填申請單我作為一個普通民眾不是立法委員的話不需要我們通常對於人潮聚集自己自發性的會去人潮聚集比較多的地方我們會為了服務民眾方便的話服務民眾方便所以不需要所以你只要就是隨機看電視看到說那裡在辦集會遊行人很多你們就會自己跑過去幫他增加訊號\n\n05:28.877 --> 05:57.716\n如果因為這個是客戶用戶的問題我們會要求他的提比如說他提供這個所謂行動通訊要有一定的品質什麼一定的品質我的問題不是這個嘛我問題是你是否看電視只要看到有一個地方集會遊行人很多你們自己就會跑過去開基地台幫他增加訊號嗎局部需要申請嗎跟委員報告像這個媽祖遶境白沙屯媽祖遶境還有燈會的活動他們有沒有申請他們有沒有提前跟你們溝通\n\n05:58.576 --> 06:00.337\n我們確實有這個增加這個基地台的部件讓整個這個好我們再看上一張\n\n06:24.835 --> 06:53.720\n所以大家才會懷疑嘛所以大家才會懷疑說這跟基地台有沒有關係嘛前面那個是5月2...我知道這是兩件事前面那是5月24號就有人講的現在他講這個在電視上講不是膝蓋喔是5月27號講的所以大家才會懷疑說是不是有被濫用是不是有國家監控的問題嘛最後我只問一下這個法務部好我...等一下等一下不好意思主席再給我30秒好不好我問一下那個NCC齁\n\n06:54.540 --> 07:11.329\n就是說你們剛剛講說業者跟網紅位委員在問答的時候說業者沒有電信業者沒有販售資料給這個所謂的政治人物或政黨是不是就是說這個事情裡面不是這個事情我是說電信業者有沒有販售資料給政治人物\n\n07:11.949 --> 07:23.839\n一般來講的話你剛剛說沒有沒有沒有我說我們5月30日那時候查他們說沒有放給發賣給政黨或特定個人不是是說所有的喔就是不是針對這個21號的行動來中華電信講因為不一定是中華電信嘛所以我不想請中華電信回來因為說不定他沒有啊來我直接唸給你聽好不好\n\n07:33.166 --> 07:53.721\n我在選舉的時候就有收到某一家的資料庫他可以篩選選區戶集地發簡訊價錢多少我就不說了而且我跟國安局質詢的時候他們有回復我說電信業者確實有做package去賣給包含是政黨或個人但這樣子的情況請問主委是可以的嗎\n\n07:54.782 --> 07:56.983\n王毅川先生在網路上面的言論以上謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.813,"end":17.945,"text":"謝謝主席。我想請我們NCC、法務部跟中華電信一起,好嗎?好,陳主委,請問一下,先生問一下您的膝蓋還好嗎?"},{"start":27.35,"end":28.211,"text":"徐巧芯徐巧芯"},{"start":54.151,"end":78.961,"text":"我們如果說有違反事實查證那當然會有罰則好,所以我們看一下PowerPoint好不好這個呢他當時一開始說他從分析的資料來看而且他講到幾個關鍵字他有講到呢基地台、訊號、資料、分析、比對而且他是比對三場不同的活動就如同我剛剛所說的那樣子我想請問陳主委他這樣的說法有可能性存在對吧"},{"start":79.301,"end":93.997,"text":"因為包含是我問過國安局長包含是這個當時疫情期間的建制系統還有包含是幾位書發部都說這樣子是有可行性只是很難取得請問主委是這樣嗎"},{"start":94.969,"end":96.329,"text":"徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯"},{"start":114.514,"end":136.169,"text":"那我要怎麼樣排除說已經建制的系統他沒有被拿去其他的地方重新的去做濫用我們當時在疫情時有三個第一個就是疫調輔助系統第二個是電子維理第三個是簡訊系統這我都知道我想要問的是濫用的部分要怎麼樣去這個資料我們全部刪除所以未來如果需要整個重建才行是嗎"},{"start":136.989,"end":165.676,"text":"還是系統仍然存在只是我們現在停止傳輸?可能要重建你要跟我講確定的不是可能就是這個系統是否還在因為舉例來說像當時數位身分證已經取消這個政策的時候它的整個系統是保留之外它還持續必須運作但是計劃已經停止了我想要詢問這個系統是已經完全銷毀還是我們現在已經不再使用這是兩件事資料銷毀了"},{"start":167.156,"end":168.777,"text":"徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯徐巧芯"},{"start":188.007,"end":215.918,"text":"下架是什麼意思?可以給我們一個清楚的定義什麼叫下架?就我們已經沒有在我們的公司沒有在傳輸還什麼是下架啦你講清楚一點下架定義是什麼?你這麼說好像跟那個王一川那個膝蓋沒什麼兩樣下架是什麼意思?我們系統已經下線公司已經沒有這個系統公司沒有這個系統所以如果今天又有疫情來的話要全數重建重建好那我再問一下我們看下一張投影片"},{"start":217.236,"end":238.932,"text":"我想要請問一下NCC主委還有貓眼中華電信請問在521當天你們有沒有協助在這個公民運動裡面幫忙他們去吊雞地台報告委員那天因為陳情的民眾比較多我們有接到包括這個委員還有這個什麼委員"},{"start":243.238,"end":267.609,"text":"立法委員民進黨的立法委員是的然後要求你們協助增加基地台還有包括一些我們得到的一些外部單位外部單位是誰我是說我們在現得到一些希望說我們能夠加強訊號誰希望剛剛有講民進黨的立委嗎還有誰希望你們加強訊號"},{"start":271.7,"end":298.589,"text":"主辦單位可以要求中華電信加強訊號我們就要去配合加強訊號那個所有大型活動包括燈會或是像這種集會因為他的人多所以他的電話訊號都會比較用塞所以電信業者也不是只有中華電信不是只有中華電信我知道啊上面有寫嘛那所以說誰可以去要求誰可以去提出要求貨物戶都可以去提出要求需不需要申請"},{"start":300.089,"end":327.657,"text":"有沒有申請單沒有那我今天如果辦一個集會遊行那我需不需要向你填申請單我作為一個普通民眾不是立法委員的話不需要我們通常對於人潮聚集自己自發性的會去人潮聚集比較多的地方我們會為了服務民眾方便的話服務民眾方便所以不需要所以你只要就是隨機看電視看到說那裡在辦集會遊行人很多你們就會自己跑過去幫他增加訊號"},{"start":328.877,"end":357.716,"text":"如果因為這個是客戶用戶的問題我們會要求他的提比如說他提供這個所謂行動通訊要有一定的品質什麼一定的品質我的問題不是這個嘛我問題是你是否看電視只要看到有一個地方集會遊行人很多你們自己就會跑過去開基地台幫他增加訊號嗎局部需要申請嗎跟委員報告像這個媽祖遶境白沙屯媽祖遶境還有燈會的活動他們有沒有申請他們有沒有提前跟你們溝通"},{"start":358.576,"end":360.337,"text":"我們確實有這個增加這個基地台的部件讓整個這個好我們再看上一張"},{"start":384.835,"end":413.72,"text":"所以大家才會懷疑嘛所以大家才會懷疑說這跟基地台有沒有關係嘛前面那個是5月2...我知道這是兩件事前面那是5月24號就有人講的現在他講這個在電視上講不是膝蓋喔是5月27號講的所以大家才會懷疑說是不是有被濫用是不是有國家監控的問題嘛最後我只問一下這個法務部好我...等一下等一下不好意思主席再給我30秒好不好我問一下那個NCC齁"},{"start":414.54,"end":431.329,"text":"就是說你們剛剛講說業者跟網紅位委員在問答的時候說業者沒有電信業者沒有販售資料給這個所謂的政治人物或政黨是不是就是說這個事情裡面不是這個事情我是說電信業者有沒有販售資料給政治人物"},{"start":431.949,"end":443.839,"text":"一般來講的話你剛剛說沒有沒有沒有我說我們5月30日那時候查他們說沒有放給發賣給政黨或特定個人不是是說所有的喔就是不是針對這個21號的行動來中華電信講因為不一定是中華電信嘛所以我不想請中華電信回來因為說不定他沒有啊來我直接唸給你聽好不好"},{"start":453.166,"end":473.721,"text":"我在選舉的時候就有收到某一家的資料庫他可以篩選選區戶集地發簡訊價錢多少我就不說了而且我跟國安局質詢的時候他們有回復我說電信業者確實有做package去賣給包含是政黨或個人但這樣子的情況請問主委是可以的嗎"},{"start":474.782,"end":476.983,"text":"王毅川先生在網路上面的言論以上謝謝"}]}}}}