{"id":153471,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153471","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2dd358c888e2c707e30b09ddb4a6c1a459c493b59145da8fe7a5eaa3f1fb9be21080221c7f8cd8385ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"游顥","委員發言時間":"13:23:21 - 13:30:17","影片長度":"00:06:56","會議時間":"2024-06-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、法務部、個人資料保護委員會籌備處及中華電信股份有限公司就「國家機器以手機定位、分析個資特性等方式侵犯人民權益」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【6月3日及6日二天一次會】）","date":"2024-06-03","start_time":"2024-06-03T13:23:21+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-03T13:30:17+08:00","duration":416,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1611,"blocks":[["游委員顥：（13時23分）謝謝會議主席。有請NCC主委陳耀祥主委，還有法務部黃次長，今天就沒有特別問數發部部長。"],["主席：請陳主委、黃次長。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：委員好。"],["黃次長謀信：委員好。"],["游委員顥：主委好、次長好。在這裡，本席要直接就教剛才許多委員都非常關心、關注這次的議題，其實這次王義川提到所謂相關個資的洩漏，大家其實心裡都非常的擔心、擔憂，服務處也接了不下二、三十通的電話，大家也很擔心個資外洩，所以網路甚至有一個梗圖，就像這一則圖片一樣，當你發一則笑話的時候，可能連王義川都看得到；可能你發訊息給你太太的時候，整個笑話可能王義川都在笑。","我想要先請教一下主委，對於目前民進黨政策會執行長，是不是因為他的不當發言，造成整個社會在媒體的報導還有大家的討論之下，引起了軒然大波，大家對於個資保護，人心惶惶，你認同嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這個事情讓大家對於個資的保護更加重視。"],["游委員顥：那是會擔心吧！"],["陳主任委員耀祥：擔心當然也會啦！"],["游委員顥：所以一個民進黨政策會執行長講這樣子的言論是正確的嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：第一個，我們現在不曉得他的狀況，這個個案最終的資料、情況是怎麼來。但是如果是因為這樣的原因而引起對個人資料的疑慮來講，當然我們覺得哪些地方沒有做好，我們繼續努力。"],["游委員顥：沒關係，我直接請教一下次長，現在就是可能有兩種情況，一個是在切割王義川的發言，我們都看到，因為他那個發言明顯不當，其實也是非常不適任做一個政黨的政策會執行長。我想請教一下次長，您是法律專家，又是非常具有實務經驗，以目前來講，通保法第二十四條，包括在資料上面所提出的，以及個資法第四十一條，包括詐欺，他今天講的話如果是欺騙、欺瞞，在欺騙社會大眾，哪一個的罪責比較重？"],["黃次長謀信：這要看到他具體的犯罪情節是什麼，如果是詐欺罪，他有可能處到一年以上七年以下的犯罪。"],["游委員顥：如果是違反個資法第四十一條？"],["黃次長謀信：個資法可能就五年以下。"],["游委員顥：五年以下嘛！所以今天他所這樣子去揭露大家的資料或是個資，以及包括他講這些所謂大家的定位還可以作為交叉分析，這樣子是不是有違反個資法？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，你講的已經涉及到這個個案了，因為事實我們不明確，所以我們沒有辦法就……"],["游委員顥：但是如果以這個態樣……"],["黃次長謀信：如果是明確的狀態之下，我們法律是有……"],["游委員顥：是不是違反個資法了？如果以他這個部分，在手機定位的交叉分析，他是充分擁有這些數據資料，如他所講的話，那他就是違反個資法的一個狀況嘛！"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，我們不要講這個個案，我們抽離這個個案，有沒有違反個資法的前提必須是我們個資法上所保護的個資，前提是這一個。"],["游委員顥：現在來講，他只有承認他資料哪裡來，或者是他今天沒有這個資料，就是變成一年以下或五年以下嗎？"],["黃次長謀信：看事實，看檢察官查出來的事實是什麼。"],["游委員顥：那就交給檢調嘛？"],["黃次長謀信：對，沒有錯。"],["游委員顥：好，謝謝。接著就直接請教主委，在手機定位的交叉分析，就手機定位這件事情來說，請問主委，這是受到個資法保護沒有錯吧？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：如果是以數據來講，就不算個資；如果是個資，當然就會有個資法適用的問題。"],["游委員顥：其實跟主委直接提到，王義川他所講的，這些人跟原本的小草有去比對過，王義川說這個跟517在民進黨樓下那些小草訊號比起來也不同人，所以小草也沒跑，但是這一批人跟那一批人，就是上次在1月13日選舉前的選前之夜去比對，也沒有關係。請問主委，這叫做有去識別化嗎？"],["陳主任委員耀祥：從他的個資看起來，他沒有涉及到所謂的特定的個人，但在這個案件裡面，我個人也比較好奇的是，他如何去比對的這個問題！因為一般如果是數據應用分析來講，比如這段時間跟以前那段時間，以前那段時間這個資料到底還在不在……"],["游委員顥：所以主委，我直接講啦！這種來講，就是沒有去識別化，所以你回答得也很為難、很無力啊，因為你要幫王義川辯護，你也點頭了……"],["陳主任委員耀祥：我沒有幫他辯護，我只是說……"],["游委員顥：你要幫他，你也點頭了，沒有錯。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：這是不是一個資侵害的問題啦！"],["游委員顥：對，這是個資侵害的問題。所以其實他這個很明顯的就叫做沒有去識別化，依照歐盟第二十九條資料保護工作小組來講，王義川在政論節目上所講的，他是絕對已經可以清楚讓社會大眾聽到他所提的言語、已經可以辨識哪些人出席什麼樣的政治活動，所以這個部分用去識別化來帶過，包括當初主秘的回復，那會查得出東西嗎？這要回復是很難啦！所以其實還是要跟主委講，剛才在審查提案的時候，其實如果三個月、兩個月，這沒有辦法讓社會信服，因為這件事情嚴重的影響到未來數發部以及行政院要通過打詐專法的部分。現在來講，看到定位就已經涉及違反個資法，未來甚至可以調到網路上面查閱網站的足跡，這些東西未來都是王義川他可以擁有的資料，所以這個部分是非常的誇張。","最後，我還要請問中華電信，有人跟我們辦公室爆料，說中華電信大數據分析服務方案來講，大家應該找中華電信當問責的對象，因為時間簡短，我在這裡直接提出，有人明確跟本席辦公室提到中華電信法律事務處副總經理魏惠珍是以前柯建銘的助理，所以說這個也是很玄啦！手機定位不同場次、不同群體的交叉分析，中華電信這個部分如何做好資料的保密？因為時間到了，我想這件事情因為有人跟我爆料，所以我想說還是請你會後再跟我這邊做個回復，謝謝。"],["陳主任委員耀祥：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝游顥委員的發言，會後再向游顥委員報告。","下一位登記的委員，鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","請張智倫委員、張智倫委員、張智倫委員不在。","請鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員不在。","請黃國昌委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":380,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-15","speakers":["陳雪生","林沛祥","李昆澤","黃健豪","林國成","林俊憲","蔡其昌","魯明哲","徐富癸","許智傑","陳素月","羅智強","游顥","翁曉玲","何欣純","王鴻薇","徐巧芯","邱若華","吳宗憲","洪孟楷","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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\"text\": \"所以說小草也沒跑但是這一批人跟那一批人上次選舉1月13日之前選前職業人去對也沒有關係那請問主委這叫做有去識別化嗎?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 263.795, \"end\": 263.935, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 263.935, \"end\": 264.095, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"小\", \"start\": 264.095, \"end\": 264.336, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"草\", \"start\": 264.336, \"end\": 264.516, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 264.516, \"end\": 264.596, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 264.596, \"end\": 264.756, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"跑\", \"start\": 264.756, \"end\": 265.376, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 265.376, \"end\": 265.496, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 265.496, \"end\": 265.777, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 265.777, \"end\": 265.877, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"批\", \"start\": 265.877, \"end\": 266.057, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 266.057, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:14,912 --> 00:00:27,371\n謝謝會議主席。還有請NCC主委陳耀祥、陳主委、還有法務部、還有廠次黃次長。那今天就沒有特別問蘇法部部長。謝謝。請陳主委、黃次長。\n\n2\n00:00:30,410 --> 00:00:55,636\n委員好主委好常事長好那在這裡本席要直接就教剛才許多的委員他都非常關心關注的在這次的議題那其實在這次王逸川他所提到的這個所謂的相關個資洩漏大家其實都其實心裡都非常的擔心擔憂啊服務處也接下了不下二三十通的電話\n\n3\n00:00:56,636 --> 00:01:22,903\n他擔心的這個各自外泄啊所以網路甚至有一個梗圖啊就像這一則的這個圖片一樣當你發一則笑話的時候可能連王逸川都看到可能你發訊息給你太太的時候整個笑話可能王逸川都在笑那我們接著看下一頁那我想要先請教一下這個我們的主委那對於這個目前來講一個民進黨的政策會執行長那是不是因為他的這個不當發言啊\n\n4\n00:01:23,943 --> 00:01:42,843\n還造成了這個整個社會媒體的報導之下還大家的討論之下引起了軒然大波大家對於個資保護人心惶惶你認同嗎這個事情讓大家對於個資的保護更加重視那是會擔心吧擔心當然也會啦那所以說一個政策會執行長民進黨政策會執行長講這樣子的言論是正確的嗎\n\n5\n00:01:46,298 --> 00:02:06,468\n我們第一個我們現在不曉得他的狀況這個案的最終的資料情況是怎麼來但是如果是因為這樣的原因而引起個人資料的疑慮來講的話我們當然我們覺得應該有哪些地方沒有做好那我會繼續努力沒關係我直接請教一下市長就是對於這個就是兩種情況可能嘛\n\n6\n00:02:09,789 --> 00:02:29,314\n大家在切割這個王逸川的發言我們都看到因為他那個發言明顯不當其實也是非常不適任作為一個政黨的政策會執行長我想請教一下市長您是法律專家又是非常具有實務經驗以目前來講通保法第24條包括在資料上面所提出的以及各自法41條\n\n7\n00:02:31,637 --> 00:02:39,217\n他今天講的話如果說他是一個欺騙欺瞞在欺騙社會大眾的話哪一個的罪責比較重?\n\n8\n00:02:41,713 --> 00:03:04,402\n這看到他具體的犯罪情節是什麼如果說是詐欺罪他有可能處到一年以上七年以下的犯罪那如果說違反個資法41條的話個資法可能就五年以下五年以下嘛那所以說他今天他所這樣子去揭露大家的這個資料或是個資以及包括大家在這個目前他講說這些所謂的大家的定位還可以作為交叉分析的話這樣子是不是違反個資法\n\n9\n00:03:05,602 --> 00:03:11,847\n更為報告你這已經涉及到這個個案了因為事實我們不明確所以我們沒有辦法就但是如果我們以這個太陽的話是違反國資法的嗎\n\n10\n00:03:14,895 --> 00:03:43,688\n如果說以他這個部分他在這個手機定位的交叉分析他是充分擁有這些數據資料如他所講的話那他就是違反個資法的一個狀況嘛各位報告我們不要講這個個案我們抽離這個個案前提就是說如果有沒有違反個資法必須要前提是他是不是我們個資法上所保護的個資啦前提是這一關反正他現在來講他只有承認他資料哪裡來或者是說他今天的話他沒有這個資料就是譬如說一年以下或五年以下之一嘛\n\n11\n00:03:45,213 --> 00:03:49,876\n在手機定位的交叉分析、手機定位的這件事情請問主委這次收到個資保護沒有錯?\n\n12\n00:04:02,962 --> 00:04:23,115\n如果是數據來講的話就不是個資如果是個資比如說當然是就會有個資法的適用的問題那其實跟主委直接提到了王逸川他所講的這些人跟原人的小草有去比對過那王逸川他說這個跟伍儀奇在民進黨樓下那些小草訊號比起來也不同人\n\n13\n00:04:23,795 --> 00:04:34,904\n所以說小草也沒跑但是這一批人跟那一批人上次選舉1月13日之前選前職業人去對也沒有關係那請問主委這叫做有去識別化嗎?\n\n14\n00:04:37,050 --> 00:04:56,756\n從他的個資看起來來講的話他沒有涉及到所謂的特定的個人但是就他這如何其實這個案件裡面最我個人也比較好奇是他如何去比對這個問題因為一般來講的話我們如果是數據應用分析來講的話比如說這個這段時間跟以前那段時間以前那段時間來講這個資料到底還在不在或這個\n\n15\n00:04:58,376 --> 00:05:18,760\n所以主委我直接講啦就是說這種來講就是沒有去識別化所以你回答的你也很很為難很無力啊因為你要幫王逸川編你也點頭了我沒有幫他編我是說你也點頭了沒有錯各自侵害的問題對這是各自侵害的問題所以就其實他這個就是很明顯的就是要做沒有去識別化那依照歐盟第29條資料保護工作小組來講其實在王逸川在政論時間上所講的\n\n16\n00:05:23,761 --> 00:05:40,409\n他是絕對已經可以清楚讓社會大眾聽到他所提的言語已經可以辨識那些人出席什麼樣的政治活動所以說這個部分用去識別化來帶過包括當初祖密的回覆啊那會查得出東西嗎?這樣回覆是很難的\n\n17\n00:05:41,329 --> 00:05:57,899\n所以說其實還是要跟主委講今天剛才在審查這個提案的時候其實如果說3個月2個月這個沒辦法讓大家社會幸福因為這件事情來講它嚴重的影響到未來訴發部以及行政要通過這個就是我們打詐專法的部分\n\n18\n00:05:58,579 --> 00:06:17,251\n現在來講的話看到定位就已經涉及到違反個資法那未來的話是甚至可以跳到網路上面查閱網站的足跡那這些東西未來都是王逸川他可以擁有的資料所以這個部分是非常的誇張那最後我還是要請中華電信這邊那在有人跟我們辦公室爆料啦\n\n19\n00:06:17,911 --> 00:06:35,262\n說在這個中華電信大數據分析服務方案來講那大家應該找中華電信當問責的對象那我在這裡我直接因為時間階段提出那有人有明確跟本席辦公室提到中華電信法律事務處副處長副總經理魏惠珍是以前柯建銘的助理\n\n20\n00:06:35,982 --> 00:06:53,633\n所以說這個是也是很玄的那所以說手機定位不同場次不同群體的交叉分析中華電信這個部分如何做好一個資料的保密啊那因為時間到了我想請這件事情因為有人跟我爆料所以我想說還是請您會後再跟我這邊做一個回覆好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n14912\t27371\t謝謝會議主席。還有請NCC主委陳耀祥、陳主委、還有法務部、還有廠次黃次長。那今天就沒有特別問蘇法部部長。謝謝。請陳主委、黃次長。\n30410\t55636\t委員好 主委好 常事長好那在這裡本席要直接就教剛才許多的委員他都非常關心關注的在這次的議題那其實在這次王逸川他所提到的這個所謂的相關個資洩漏大家其實都其實心裡都非常的擔心擔憂啊服務處也接下了不下二三十通的電話\n56636\t82903\t他擔心的這個各自外泄啊所以網路甚至有一個梗圖啊就像這一則的這個圖片一樣當你發一則笑話的時候可能連王逸川都看到可能你發訊息給你太太的時候整個笑話可能王逸川都在笑那我們接著看下一頁那我想要先請教一下這個我們的主委那對於這個目前來講一個民進黨的政策會執行長那是不是因為他的這個不當發言啊\n83943\t102843\t還造成了這個整個社會媒體的報導之下還大家的討論之下引起了軒然大波大家對於個資保護人心惶惶你認同嗎這個事情讓大家對於個資的保護更加重視那是會擔心吧擔心當然也會啦那所以說一個政策會執行長民進黨政策會執行長講這樣子的言論是正確的嗎\n106298\t126468\t我們第一個我們現在不曉得他的狀況這個案的最終的資料情況是怎麼來但是如果是因為這樣的原因而引起個人資料的疑慮來講的話我們當然我們覺得應該有哪些地方沒有做好那我會繼續努力沒關係我直接請教一下市長就是對於這個就是兩種情況可能嘛\n129789\t149314\t大家在切割這個王逸川的發言我們都看到因為他那個發言明顯不當其實也是非常不適任作為一個政黨的政策會執行長我想請教一下市長您是法律專家又是非常具有實務經驗以目前來講通保法第24條包括在資料上面所提出的以及各自法41條\n151637\t159217\t他今天講的話如果說他是一個欺騙欺瞞在欺騙社會大眾的話哪一個的罪責比較重?\n161713\t184402\t這看到他具體的犯罪情節是什麼如果說是詐欺罪他有可能處到一年以上七年以下的犯罪那如果說違反個資法41條的話個資法可能就五年以下五年以下嘛那所以說他今天他所這樣子去揭露大家的這個資料或是個資以及包括大家在這個目前他講說這些所謂的大家的定位還可以作為交叉分析的話這樣子是不是違反個資法\n185602\t191847\t更為報告你這已經涉及到這個個案了因為事實我們不明確所以我們沒有辦法就但是如果我們以這個太陽的話是違反國資法的嗎\n194895\t223688\t如果說以他這個部分他在這個手機定位的交叉分析他是充分擁有這些數據資料如他所講的話那他就是違反個資法的一個狀況嘛各位報告我們不要講這個個案我們抽離這個個案前提就是說如果有沒有違反個資法必須要前提是他是不是我們個資法上所保護的個資啦前提是這一關反正他現在來講他只有承認他資料哪裡來或者是說他今天的話他沒有這個資料就是譬如說一年以下或五年以下之一嘛\n225213\t229876\t在手機定位的交叉分析、手機定位的這件事情請問主委這次收到個資保護沒有錯?\n242962\t263115\t如果是數據來講的話就不是個資如果是個資比如說當然是就會有個資法的適用的問題那其實跟主委直接提到了王逸川他所講的這些人跟原人的小草有去比對過那王逸川他說這個跟伍儀奇在民進黨樓下那些小草訊號比起來也不同人\n263795\t274904\t所以說小草也沒跑但是這一批人跟那一批人上次選舉1月13日之前選前職業人去對也沒有關係那請問主委這叫做有去識別化嗎?\n277050\t296756\t從他的個資看起來來講的話他沒有涉及到所謂的特定的個人但是就他這如何其實這個案件裡面最我個人也比較好奇是他如何去比對這個問題因為一般來講的話我們如果是數據應用分析來講的話比如說這個這段時間跟以前那段時間以前那段時間來講這個資料到底還在不在或這個\n298376\t318760\t所以主委我直接講啦就是說這種來講就是沒有去識別化所以你回答的你也很很為難很無力啊因為你要幫王逸川編你也點頭了我沒有幫他編我是說你也點頭了沒有錯各自侵害的問題對這是各自侵害的問題所以就其實他這個就是很明顯的就是要做沒有去識別化那依照歐盟第29條資料保護工作小組來講其實在王逸川在政論時間上所講的\n323761\t340409\t他是絕對已經可以清楚讓社會大眾聽到他所提的言語已經可以辨識那些人出席什麼樣的政治活動所以說這個部分用去識別化來帶過包括當初祖密的回覆啊那會查得出東西嗎?這樣回覆是很難的\n341329\t357899\t所以說其實還是要跟主委講今天剛才在審查這個提案的時候其實如果說3個月2個月這個沒辦法讓大家社會幸福因為這件事情來講它嚴重的影響到未來訴發部以及行政要通過這個就是我們打詐專法的部分\n358579\t377251\t現在來講的話看到定位就已經涉及到違反個資法那未來的話是甚至可以跳到網路上面查閱網站的足跡那這些東西未來都是王逸川他可以擁有的資料所以這個部分是非常的誇張那最後我還是要請中華電信這邊那在有人跟我們辦公室爆料啦\n377911\t395262\t說在這個中華電信大數據分析服務方案來講那大家應該找中華電信當問責的對象那我在這裡我直接因為時間階段提出那有人有明確跟本席辦公室提到中華電信法律事務處副處長副總經理魏惠珍是以前柯建銘的助理\n395982\t413633\t所以說這個是也是很玄的那所以說手機定位不同場次不同群體的交叉分析中華電信這個部分如何做好一個資料的保密啊那因為時間到了我想請這件事情因為有人跟我爆料所以我想說還是請您會後再跟我這邊做一個回覆好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝會議主席。還有請NCC主委陳耀祥、陳主委、還有法務部、還有廠次黃次長。那今天就沒有特別問蘇法部部長。謝謝。請陳主委、黃次長。\n委員好 主委好 常事長好那在這裡本席要直接就教剛才許多的委員他都非常關心關注的在這次的議題那其實在這次王逸川他所提到的這個所謂的相關個資洩漏大家其實都其實心裡都非常的擔心擔憂啊服務處也接下了不下二三十通的電話\n他擔心的這個各自外泄啊所以網路甚至有一個梗圖啊就像這一則的這個圖片一樣當你發一則笑話的時候可能連王逸川都看到可能你發訊息給你太太的時候整個笑話可能王逸川都在笑那我們接著看下一頁那我想要先請教一下這個我們的主委那對於這個目前來講一個民進黨的政策會執行長那是不是因為他的這個不當發言啊\n還造成了這個整個社會媒體的報導之下還大家的討論之下引起了軒然大波大家對於個資保護人心惶惶你認同嗎這個事情讓大家對於個資的保護更加重視那是會擔心吧擔心當然也會啦那所以說一個政策會執行長民進黨政策會執行長講這樣子的言論是正確的嗎\n我們第一個我們現在不曉得他的狀況這個案的最終的資料情況是怎麼來但是如果是因為這樣的原因而引起個人資料的疑慮來講的話我們當然我們覺得應該有哪些地方沒有做好那我會繼續努力沒關係我直接請教一下市長就是對於這個就是兩種情況可能嘛\n大家在切割這個王逸川的發言我們都看到因為他那個發言明顯不當其實也是非常不適任作為一個政黨的政策會執行長我想請教一下市長您是法律專家又是非常具有實務經驗以目前來講通保法第24條包括在資料上面所提出的以及各自法41條\n他今天講的話如果說他是一個欺騙欺瞞在欺騙社會大眾的話哪一個的罪責比較重?\n這看到他具體的犯罪情節是什麼如果說是詐欺罪他有可能處到一年以上七年以下的犯罪那如果說違反個資法41條的話個資法可能就五年以下五年以下嘛那所以說他今天他所這樣子去揭露大家的這個資料或是個資以及包括大家在這個目前他講說這些所謂的大家的定位還可以作為交叉分析的話這樣子是不是違反個資法\n更為報告你這已經涉及到這個個案了因為事實我們不明確所以我們沒有辦法就但是如果我們以這個太陽的話是違反國資法的嗎\n如果說以他這個部分他在這個手機定位的交叉分析他是充分擁有這些數據資料如他所講的話那他就是違反個資法的一個狀況嘛各位報告我們不要講這個個案我們抽離這個個案前提就是說如果有沒有違反個資法必須要前提是他是不是我們個資法上所保護的個資啦前提是這一關反正他現在來講他只有承認他資料哪裡來或者是說他今天的話他沒有這個資料就是譬如說一年以下或五年以下之一嘛\n在手機定位的交叉分析、手機定位的這件事情請問主委這次收到個資保護沒有錯?\n如果是數據來講的話就不是個資如果是個資比如說當然是就會有個資法的適用的問題那其實跟主委直接提到了王逸川他所講的這些人跟原人的小草有去比對過那王逸川他說這個跟伍儀奇在民進黨樓下那些小草訊號比起來也不同人\n所以說小草也沒跑但是這一批人跟那一批人上次選舉1月13日之前選前職業人去對也沒有關係那請問主委這叫做有去識別化嗎?\n從他的個資看起來來講的話他沒有涉及到所謂的特定的個人但是就他這如何其實這個案件裡面最我個人也比較好奇是他如何去比對這個問題因為一般來講的話我們如果是數據應用分析來講的話比如說這個這段時間跟以前那段時間以前那段時間來講這個資料到底還在不在或這個\n所以主委我直接講啦就是說這種來講就是沒有去識別化所以你回答的你也很很為難很無力啊因為你要幫王逸川編你也點頭了我沒有幫他編我是說你也點頭了沒有錯各自侵害的問題對這是各自侵害的問題所以就其實他這個就是很明顯的就是要做沒有去識別化那依照歐盟第29條資料保護工作小組來講其實在王逸川在政論時間上所講的\n他是絕對已經可以清楚讓社會大眾聽到他所提的言語已經可以辨識那些人出席什麼樣的政治活動所以說這個部分用去識別化來帶過包括當初祖密的回覆啊那會查得出東西嗎?這樣回覆是很難的\n所以說其實還是要跟主委講今天剛才在審查這個提案的時候其實如果說3個月2個月這個沒辦法讓大家社會幸福因為這件事情來講它嚴重的影響到未來訴發部以及行政要通過這個就是我們打詐專法的部分\n現在來講的話看到定位就已經涉及到違反個資法那未來的話是甚至可以跳到網路上面查閱網站的足跡那這些東西未來都是王逸川他可以擁有的資料所以這個部分是非常的誇張那最後我還是要請中華電信這邊那在有人跟我們辦公室爆料啦\n說在這個中華電信大數據分析服務方案來講那大家應該找中華電信當問責的對象那我在這裡我直接因為時間階段提出那有人有明確跟本席辦公室提到中華電信法律事務處副處長副總經理魏惠珍是以前柯建銘的助理\n所以說這個是也是很玄的那所以說手機定位不同場次不同群體的交叉分析中華電信這個部分如何做好一個資料的保密啊那因為時間到了我想請這件事情因為有人跟我爆料所以我想說還是請您會後再跟我這邊做一個回覆好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:14.912 --> 00:27.371\n謝謝會議主席。還有請NCC主委陳耀祥、陳主委、還有法務部、還有廠次黃次長。那今天就沒有特別問蘇法部部長。謝謝。請陳主委、黃次長。\n\n00:30.410 --> 00:55.636\n委員好主委好常事長好那在這裡本席要直接就教剛才許多的委員他都非常關心關注的在這次的議題那其實在這次王逸川他所提到的這個所謂的相關個資洩漏大家其實都其實心裡都非常的擔心擔憂啊服務處也接下了不下二三十通的電話\n\n00:56.636 --> 01:22.903\n他擔心的這個各自外泄啊所以網路甚至有一個梗圖啊就像這一則的這個圖片一樣當你發一則笑話的時候可能連王逸川都看到可能你發訊息給你太太的時候整個笑話可能王逸川都在笑那我們接著看下一頁那我想要先請教一下這個我們的主委那對於這個目前來講一個民進黨的政策會執行長那是不是因為他的這個不當發言啊\n\n01:23.943 --> 01:42.843\n還造成了這個整個社會媒體的報導之下還大家的討論之下引起了軒然大波大家對於個資保護人心惶惶你認同嗎這個事情讓大家對於個資的保護更加重視那是會擔心吧擔心當然也會啦那所以說一個政策會執行長民進黨政策會執行長講這樣子的言論是正確的嗎\n\n01:46.298 --> 02:06.468\n我們第一個我們現在不曉得他的狀況這個案的最終的資料情況是怎麼來但是如果是因為這樣的原因而引起個人資料的疑慮來講的話我們當然我們覺得應該有哪些地方沒有做好那我會繼續努力沒關係我直接請教一下市長就是對於這個就是兩種情況可能嘛\n\n02:09.789 --> 02:29.314\n大家在切割這個王逸川的發言我們都看到因為他那個發言明顯不當其實也是非常不適任作為一個政黨的政策會執行長我想請教一下市長您是法律專家又是非常具有實務經驗以目前來講通保法第24條包括在資料上面所提出的以及各自法41條\n\n02:31.637 --> 02:39.217\n他今天講的話如果說他是一個欺騙欺瞞在欺騙社會大眾的話哪一個的罪責比較重?\n\n02:41.713 --> 03:04.402\n這看到他具體的犯罪情節是什麼如果說是詐欺罪他有可能處到一年以上七年以下的犯罪那如果說違反個資法41條的話個資法可能就五年以下五年以下嘛那所以說他今天他所這樣子去揭露大家的這個資料或是個資以及包括大家在這個目前他講說這些所謂的大家的定位還可以作為交叉分析的話這樣子是不是違反個資法\n\n03:05.602 --> 03:11.847\n更為報告你這已經涉及到這個個案了因為事實我們不明確所以我們沒有辦法就但是如果我們以這個太陽的話是違反國資法的嗎\n\n03:14.895 --> 03:43.688\n如果說以他這個部分他在這個手機定位的交叉分析他是充分擁有這些數據資料如他所講的話那他就是違反個資法的一個狀況嘛各位報告我們不要講這個個案我們抽離這個個案前提就是說如果有沒有違反個資法必須要前提是他是不是我們個資法上所保護的個資啦前提是這一關反正他現在來講他只有承認他資料哪裡來或者是說他今天的話他沒有這個資料就是譬如說一年以下或五年以下之一嘛\n\n03:45.213 --> 03:49.876\n在手機定位的交叉分析、手機定位的這件事情請問主委這次收到個資保護沒有錯?\n\n04:02.962 --> 04:23.115\n如果是數據來講的話就不是個資如果是個資比如說當然是就會有個資法的適用的問題那其實跟主委直接提到了王逸川他所講的這些人跟原人的小草有去比對過那王逸川他說這個跟伍儀奇在民進黨樓下那些小草訊號比起來也不同人\n\n04:23.795 --> 04:34.904\n所以說小草也沒跑但是這一批人跟那一批人上次選舉1月13日之前選前職業人去對也沒有關係那請問主委這叫做有去識別化嗎?\n\n04:37.050 --> 04:56.756\n從他的個資看起來來講的話他沒有涉及到所謂的特定的個人但是就他這如何其實這個案件裡面最我個人也比較好奇是他如何去比對這個問題因為一般來講的話我們如果是數據應用分析來講的話比如說這個這段時間跟以前那段時間以前那段時間來講這個資料到底還在不在或這個\n\n04:58.376 --> 05:18.760\n所以主委我直接講啦就是說這種來講就是沒有去識別化所以你回答的你也很很為難很無力啊因為你要幫王逸川編你也點頭了我沒有幫他編我是說你也點頭了沒有錯各自侵害的問題對這是各自侵害的問題所以就其實他這個就是很明顯的就是要做沒有去識別化那依照歐盟第29條資料保護工作小組來講其實在王逸川在政論時間上所講的\n\n05:23.761 --> 05:40.409\n他是絕對已經可以清楚讓社會大眾聽到他所提的言語已經可以辨識那些人出席什麼樣的政治活動所以說這個部分用去識別化來帶過包括當初祖密的回覆啊那會查得出東西嗎?這樣回覆是很難的\n\n05:41.329 --> 05:57.899\n所以說其實還是要跟主委講今天剛才在審查這個提案的時候其實如果說3個月2個月這個沒辦法讓大家社會幸福因為這件事情來講它嚴重的影響到未來訴發部以及行政要通過這個就是我們打詐專法的部分\n\n05:58.579 --> 06:17.251\n現在來講的話看到定位就已經涉及到違反個資法那未來的話是甚至可以跳到網路上面查閱網站的足跡那這些東西未來都是王逸川他可以擁有的資料所以這個部分是非常的誇張那最後我還是要請中華電信這邊那在有人跟我們辦公室爆料啦\n\n06:17.911 --> 06:35.262\n說在這個中華電信大數據分析服務方案來講那大家應該找中華電信當問責的對象那我在這裡我直接因為時間階段提出那有人有明確跟本席辦公室提到中華電信法律事務處副處長副總經理魏惠珍是以前柯建銘的助理\n\n06:35.982 --> 06:53.633\n所以說這個是也是很玄的那所以說手機定位不同場次不同群體的交叉分析中華電信這個部分如何做好一個資料的保密啊那因為時間到了我想請這件事情因為有人跟我爆料所以我想說還是請您會後再跟我這邊做一個回覆好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":14.912,"end":27.371,"text":"謝謝會議主席。還有請NCC主委陳耀祥、陳主委、還有法務部、還有廠次黃次長。那今天就沒有特別問蘇法部部長。謝謝。請陳主委、黃次長。"},{"start":30.41,"end":55.636,"text":"委員好 主委好 常事長好那在這裡本席要直接就教剛才許多的委員他都非常關心關注的在這次的議題那其實在這次王逸川他所提到的這個所謂的相關個資洩漏大家其實都其實心裡都非常的擔心擔憂啊服務處也接下了不下二三十通的電話"},{"start":56.636,"end":82.903,"text":"他擔心的這個各自外泄啊所以網路甚至有一個梗圖啊就像這一則的這個圖片一樣當你發一則笑話的時候可能連王逸川都看到可能你發訊息給你太太的時候整個笑話可能王逸川都在笑那我們接著看下一頁那我想要先請教一下這個我們的主委那對於這個目前來講一個民進黨的政策會執行長那是不是因為他的這個不當發言啊"},{"start":83.943,"end":102.843,"text":"還造成了這個整個社會媒體的報導之下還大家的討論之下引起了軒然大波大家對於個資保護人心惶惶你認同嗎這個事情讓大家對於個資的保護更加重視那是會擔心吧擔心當然也會啦那所以說一個政策會執行長民進黨政策會執行長講這樣子的言論是正確的嗎"},{"start":106.298,"end":126.468,"text":"我們第一個我們現在不曉得他的狀況這個案的最終的資料情況是怎麼來但是如果是因為這樣的原因而引起個人資料的疑慮來講的話我們當然我們覺得應該有哪些地方沒有做好那我會繼續努力沒關係我直接請教一下市長就是對於這個就是兩種情況可能嘛"},{"start":129.789,"end":149.314,"text":"大家在切割這個王逸川的發言我們都看到因為他那個發言明顯不當其實也是非常不適任作為一個政黨的政策會執行長我想請教一下市長您是法律專家又是非常具有實務經驗以目前來講通保法第24條包括在資料上面所提出的以及各自法41條"},{"start":151.637,"end":159.217,"text":"他今天講的話如果說他是一個欺騙欺瞞在欺騙社會大眾的話哪一個的罪責比較重?"},{"start":161.713,"end":184.402,"text":"這看到他具體的犯罪情節是什麼如果說是詐欺罪他有可能處到一年以上七年以下的犯罪那如果說違反個資法41條的話個資法可能就五年以下五年以下嘛那所以說他今天他所這樣子去揭露大家的這個資料或是個資以及包括大家在這個目前他講說這些所謂的大家的定位還可以作為交叉分析的話這樣子是不是違反個資法"},{"start":185.602,"end":191.847,"text":"更為報告你這已經涉及到這個個案了因為事實我們不明確所以我們沒有辦法就但是如果我們以這個太陽的話是違反國資法的嗎"},{"start":194.895,"end":223.688,"text":"如果說以他這個部分他在這個手機定位的交叉分析他是充分擁有這些數據資料如他所講的話那他就是違反個資法的一個狀況嘛各位報告我們不要講這個個案我們抽離這個個案前提就是說如果有沒有違反個資法必須要前提是他是不是我們個資法上所保護的個資啦前提是這一關反正他現在來講他只有承認他資料哪裡來或者是說他今天的話他沒有這個資料就是譬如說一年以下或五年以下之一嘛"},{"start":225.213,"end":229.876,"text":"在手機定位的交叉分析、手機定位的這件事情請問主委這次收到個資保護沒有錯?"},{"start":242.962,"end":263.115,"text":"如果是數據來講的話就不是個資如果是個資比如說當然是就會有個資法的適用的問題那其實跟主委直接提到了王逸川他所講的這些人跟原人的小草有去比對過那王逸川他說這個跟伍儀奇在民進黨樓下那些小草訊號比起來也不同人"},{"start":263.795,"end":274.904,"text":"所以說小草也沒跑但是這一批人跟那一批人上次選舉1月13日之前選前職業人去對也沒有關係那請問主委這叫做有去識別化嗎?"},{"start":277.05,"end":296.756,"text":"從他的個資看起來來講的話他沒有涉及到所謂的特定的個人但是就他這如何其實這個案件裡面最我個人也比較好奇是他如何去比對這個問題因為一般來講的話我們如果是數據應用分析來講的話比如說這個這段時間跟以前那段時間以前那段時間來講這個資料到底還在不在或這個"},{"start":298.376,"end":318.76,"text":"所以主委我直接講啦就是說這種來講就是沒有去識別化所以你回答的你也很很為難很無力啊因為你要幫王逸川編你也點頭了我沒有幫他編我是說你也點頭了沒有錯各自侵害的問題對這是各自侵害的問題所以就其實他這個就是很明顯的就是要做沒有去識別化那依照歐盟第29條資料保護工作小組來講其實在王逸川在政論時間上所講的"},{"start":323.761,"end":340.409,"text":"他是絕對已經可以清楚讓社會大眾聽到他所提的言語已經可以辨識那些人出席什麼樣的政治活動所以說這個部分用去識別化來帶過包括當初祖密的回覆啊那會查得出東西嗎?這樣回覆是很難的"},{"start":341.329,"end":357.899,"text":"所以說其實還是要跟主委講今天剛才在審查這個提案的時候其實如果說3個月2個月這個沒辦法讓大家社會幸福因為這件事情來講它嚴重的影響到未來訴發部以及行政要通過這個就是我們打詐專法的部分"},{"start":358.579,"end":377.251,"text":"現在來講的話看到定位就已經涉及到違反個資法那未來的話是甚至可以跳到網路上面查閱網站的足跡那這些東西未來都是王逸川他可以擁有的資料所以這個部分是非常的誇張那最後我還是要請中華電信這邊那在有人跟我們辦公室爆料啦"},{"start":377.911,"end":395.262,"text":"說在這個中華電信大數據分析服務方案來講那大家應該找中華電信當問責的對象那我在這裡我直接因為時間階段提出那有人有明確跟本席辦公室提到中華電信法律事務處副處長副總經理魏惠珍是以前柯建銘的助理"},{"start":395.982,"end":413.633,"text":"所以說這個是也是很玄的那所以說手機定位不同場次不同群體的交叉分析中華電信這個部分如何做好一個資料的保密啊那因為時間到了我想請這件事情因為有人跟我爆料所以我想說還是請您會後再跟我這邊做一個回覆好謝謝"}]}}}}