{"id":153546,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153546","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/18e54f584c581c9862d5eaeee6c3700c05d12856443da969031d9cd4fff3a3cd78074bfe64d79d245ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"09:32:24 - 09:46:01","影片長度":"00:13:37","會議時間":"2024-06-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文、數位發展部列席就「人工智慧(AI)推動現況與未來方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【6月5日及6日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-05","start_time":"2024-06-05T09:32:24+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-05T09:46:01+08:00","duration":817,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-15"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":198,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（9時32分）好，謝謝主席。有請主委，謝謝。"],["主席：好，請吳主委。"],["陳委員培瑜：主委早安。"],["吳主任委員誠文：委員早。"],["陳委員培瑜：主委，我想這兩天的新聞你都非常瞭解，但我想要問一下，剛剛洪孟楷委員已經問了，您還沒有跟黃仁勳碰面，後續會有碰面的計畫嗎？因為國科會其實身負著推動臺灣AI產業這件事情，是非常、非常、非常重要的政策地位，目前國科會有任何規劃嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我沒有跟黃仁勳先生碰過面，因為他是在鎂光燈下所有的人都在追求的明星，我還沒有機會跟他碰面，但是NVIDIA主要的主管在臺灣詳細要執行我們發展方案的，其實我們都有接觸、都有討論過。"],["陳委員培瑜：太好了！"],["吳主任委員誠文：包含NVIDIA。"],["陳委員培瑜：我覺得聽到這裡，大家就會很放心。"],["吳主任委員誠文：包含NVIDIA、包含AMD。大家看到的這些，我都瞭解。"],["陳委員培瑜：太好了！我覺得聽到這裡，大家會很放心，就是國科會其實是在狀況內的，非常感謝主委。主委，您來自南臺科大，目前在這張表裡面，大家瘋狂在傳，我們是來自學術界，我們來看一下，南臺科大也在上面了。主委，您對這件事情有什麼看法？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我感覺非常光榮。"],["陳委員培瑜：對，你有去瞭解實務上是即將跟NVIDIA，或者是在AI產業鏈當中，南臺科大或是其他大學會扮演什麼樣的角色？國科會在相關議題上又會扮演什麼樣的角色，積極跟教育部合作，或者是跨部會的討論？"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，謝謝委員，我想大家也知道NVIDIA已經宣布在臺灣還要再投資算力，甚至可能會捐贈一部分的算力給我們的學術界，所以我們會積極來協助NVIDIA跟我們學術界所有的學校，其實也不只是列在他投影片上面的，因為大部分的學校都有學者在使用NVIDIA的設備在進行相關不管是AI的研究或它應用的研究，現在都有，所以我們會公平的去支持我們的學界積極的來跟NVIDIA合作，利用它未來再建置更多的算力來協助我們科研的發展。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，到目前為止依然讓人放心。也就是說，我們一般人的鎂光燈確實只有看到這14所或16所大學，可是主委剛剛講到了一個非常重要的事情，其他的大學，有相關算力的需求，或者是學術研發的需求，國科會當然義不容辭……"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們同樣都會支持。"],["陳委員培瑜：太好了。你都講到算力了，黃仁勳之前在相關的訪談上、在一個國外媒體的訪談上，他提到每個國家……我想我就不再多唸了，他提到AI主權，但是他在談一件事情，也就是他這一次來臺灣大力促進的事情就是，每個國家都需要他們自己的AI工廠（算力）。算力這件事情，我覺得其實是整個AI產業當中最大、最大，目前我自己盤點完各部會的工作狀態之後，我覺得沒有被好好照顧到的。怎麼說？我們來看一下，目前從數發部給我們的資料裡面提到，你們要建置AI算力池，所以數發部確實有想到算力這件事情，國科會一樣有講到算力，經濟部如同你剛剛說的，他們建了「Taipei-1」已經說要透過經濟部的角度捐贈25%的算力給臺灣的中小企業，所以已經有三個部會在談算力了，看起來已經有三個部會要投入算力的資源。","除了公部門的資源，我們來看一下民間資源。正崴集團相關的新聞稿說，在年底這個跟日本優必達合資一樣要蓋一個算力中心。前兩天黃仁勳來之後，高雄積極爭取鴻海、輝達要不要去高雄建置算力中心。主委，你有沒有發現，民間的力量、公部門的力量大家都要投資算力中心。我現在當然不會烏鴉嘴地說，有沒有可能有一天算力中心變蚊子館，我不知道，可是我擔心的是，一旦算力即國力，那我們公部門的政府資源如何看待算力即國力這件事情，到底是國科會來主導，還是經濟部，還是數發部？","我們來看一下，我很好奇地問了國科會，你們有沒有認真盤點過，往下後續開始規劃？有哪些單位、有多少單位需要算力？而這些算力又會被放在哪些層面？是產業開發、產業促進，還是學術研究？相關的規模跟類型呢？因為算力放在不同的階段，從訓練基礎模型、模型優化，到應用系統的推理運算都需要算力，如果算力就是國力，它就等同於某一個程度上……如果要讓一般人比較聽得懂，它就是油電糖水，如果油電糖水是國家重要的基礎建設，算力未來也會是國家的基礎建設，國科會、數發部，或者是其他的相關部會，目前你們有沒有跨部門討論，甚至是如同主委您剛剛說的，我問你大學的那一題，教育部到時候也會參一腳進來說，找我！找我！我也需要算力，目前我們都只有想到這些，那有沒有其他部會需要算力？目前國科會的角度跟想法是走到哪裡？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們國科會現在在統籌科技預算的編列，所以我們會以整體政府部門投資算力這個來計算。"],["陳委員培瑜：所以國科會要負責的是政府投資建置的算力中心，對嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，我們會引導民間投資。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，引導民間投資。可是看起來，民間投資的補助如果是來自經濟部，像我剛剛說的那個鴻海，前一個「Taipei-1」經濟部就補助了百分之多少比例的金額去投資輝達蓋「Taipei-1」的算力中心，如果經濟部負責投資建廠跟相關的補助，那國科會如何引導？國科會如何協助學術端？他們有相關算力的需求，國科會如何協助？或者是數發部這邊如何協助？因為我覺得在整體的分工看起來，如果算力即國力，這件事情也是賴總統清楚明白的……，行政院長也標榜是「AI內閣」，那國科會、數發部還有經濟部必須要協助院長、協助總統在這件事情上更有態度、更有規劃的方向。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，委員講得非常好，國科會一定要結合教育部，因為國科會跟教育部是面對全國大學的人力。"],["陳委員培瑜：是。"],["吳主任委員誠文：所以在研發、在應用發展，如果沒有人力，就算建再多的超級電腦、資料中心都沒有用，一定要有人力去應用，這樣才會展現出國力來。"],["陳委員培瑜：這個我把它定位為學術研究的發展，可以嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：學術研究，還有應用研究都要做。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，應用研究我們也做，所以國科會會協助教育部，那經濟部這邊呢？或者是數發部這邊的角色又是什麼？或者是國科會這邊如何去跟經濟部對話，讓跨部會有一些討論？"],["吳主任委員誠文：學術研究跟應用研究在學術界做出來的成果一定要結合到產業，才有辦法落地。"],["陳委員培瑜：是，沒錯。"],["吳主任委員誠文：所以我們會資助經濟部編列相關預算，來協助產業能夠接收這些技術，把應用拓展到各行各業。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，所以聽起來主委非常有概念，也就是您的角色必須主動發起跨部會的討論，對不對？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：太好了，我聽到這個承諾，我們辦公室會持續追蹤，因為算力這件事情真的不能就只是放著，或是告訴我們買了多少晶片、用了多少電，我覺得國人最後更關注，或者是可能會產生相對剝奪感的就是算力這件事情。所以我辦公室要積極地建議，未來針對算力的需求，國科會必須主動盤點，剛剛主委你也說了，可是盤點必須要有系統化、科學化的方法，還有在不同的產業、不同的學術研究、不同的產業應用研究。","最後一個我要先提醒，目前臺灣由公部門投資興建的算力中心，相關的應用是不是可以優先滿足臺灣國內學術研究跟產業發展為主，而不要有變相補貼業者轉賣獲取利益？剛剛主委也說了，你會跟經濟部跨部會討論，這個部分我要拜託主委先行幫忙注意這件事情。"],["吳主任委員誠文：非常同意委員，我會努力來做這件事。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，我們辦公室會持續追蹤。剛剛洪孟楷委員有一件事情要求一個禮拜，你說太趕，目前這個相關的規劃跟研議，我說一個月，時間上是可行的嗎？你看一下投影片，我寫了很多事情。"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，這個要兩個月。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，沒問題，所以我剛剛講了這麼多……"],["吳主任委員誠文：因為我要協調各部會提出具體的方案，兩個月後會宣布。"],["陳委員培瑜：所以我們幾乎可以認識一件很重要的事情，就是在剛剛討論完之後，算力這件事情，不管是學術研究、相關盤點、後續的規劃，您會協同數發部、教育部、經濟部跟其他相關部會，由您國科會開啟主要相關討論，對嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：對。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝主委，謝謝你勇於任事。"],["吳主任委員誠文：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，那我們來看一個，卓院長說了，要以臺灣文化為基底，做臺灣自己的語言模型，這件事情我們完全認同。在多年前臺灣有非常多專家學者也已經提出這個建議，目前在國科會你們的TAIDE模型裡面，看到你們用了這些資料合作單位，有公部門的，也有私部門的，像今周刊是私部門，公部門很多，我就不再贅述。","還有這麼多民間資源，我要問一下，主委有沒有看過在北港武德宮──財神開基祖廟他們買了一台人工智慧的機器？你有沒有看過這個新聞？"],["吳主任委員誠文：沒有。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，我跟你說他們買來做什麼。有人就問說，以後是要問神還是要問AI？他們說，沒有啦！我們要拿來解經，還要解鸞文。意思就是說，有很多民間……宜瑾委員笑了，是不是？","解經就是他們有讀武德宮推廣的一個財神經、武德真經，讀起來很難懂，他們讓AI去幫忙翻譯，解釋給一般人聽。還有那個鸞文，大家也知道什麼是鸞文，他說寫一寫之後一般人看不懂，他們有很多師兄、師姐解釋要花很多力氣，他們發現導入AI解讀很有幫助，這個是非常臺灣的在地文化。如果我們要發展臺灣自己具有在地文化的人文關懷與精神，這個只是我舉的一個例子，並沒有真的要主委去做這件事情。因為在您剛剛的網頁上，放了這些很正式、很官方的資料，這些大家完全都可以理解，可是我必須要用一個更民間的文化來跟主委分享，我們如何在臺灣的TAIDE模型當中，持續引入臺灣本地的關懷跟本地的文化這件事情，您是否認同？"],["吳主任委員誠文：認同。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，我們這只是舉例，大家不要急著去找這個。那我們來看一下，目前這個TAIDE模型，你們的訓練有分pre-train、sft data。在資料合作單位的部分，我看你們目前沒有策展概念，看起來就是公部門可以撈的先撈過來，合作單位可以談的先談過來，可是這些資料的用法，到底是在pre-train階段用，還是sft階段用，我不知道主委的幕僚有沒有跟你報告，目前這些資料的使用？","還有在你們國科會的報告裡面，你們提到要進入更專門領域的語言模型，對嗎？也就是例如像法律、經濟或教育學，這些專業領域的語言模型對話就必須要用更專業的資料去訓練這個語言模型。目前整個國科會，我在這個資料合作單位上，我看不到這個企圖心，但是我必須要說，因為時間很短，前主委用一年的時間就先完成了這個模型，所以我不會苛責在相關企圖上還不夠。但是新主委上任，我要拜託主委，請積極關心這件事情，可以嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：謝謝，目前的狀況是因為這是我們的第一年，我們先把沒有版權爭議的……"],["陳委員培瑜：我們都先抓過來，這個我認同。"],["吳主任委員誠文：先抓過來，然後維護隱私權等等不能侵犯。"],["陳委員培瑜：是。"],["吳主任委員誠文：這些資料我們先做，但是接下來會進入推廣的階段。"],["陳委員培瑜：是。"],["吳主任委員誠文：推廣的階段，我們就會廣泛地在各行各業的各個應用領域，有更多的訓練資料進來，做個別不同的專業用途，所以委員講的非常對。"],["陳委員培瑜：這個非常、非常花時間，而且也很需要專業的人力來協助，所以我才會寫sft data，這件事相信主委一定非常清楚。我要積極地建議，目前在選定資料提供的合作單位，拜託要有更全面的規劃，不管是專業性的，或是通用性的，甚至在國科會的報告裡面，你們自己提到還要做多模態AI，這件事情非常、非常吃資料量，對嗎？有關這件事情我們如何採用本地的資料，有效迅速而且可信度高，我相信是重要的；還有相關的授權法規，但聽起來主委您已經知道了，相關智慧財產權授權、相關的權益，還有跟各個專業領域合作，因為國科會絕對可以找到非常多專業的學術單位願意積極地提供資料，納入我們目前這個臺灣data的模型當中，對嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，但是必須要積極地規劃，而不是給資料採集小組隨機去做。","最後拜託，資料品質的確保這件事情，我們目前有沒有投入資源去規劃？"],["吳主任委員誠文：有，資料品質我們非常注重，我們不會用假資料……"],["陳委員培瑜：相關的資源跟規劃是什麼，如何再次確保資料品質？"],["吳主任委員誠文：這個我們應該……"],["陳委員培瑜：是透過RAG嗎？還是……"],["楊執行秘書佳玲：有，我們整個資料蒐集最主要是由國研院的科政中心來負責，我們有配置相當多的人力在做資料檢測。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，這個部分我們辦公室也會再跟你們積極討論。謝謝主委、謝謝主席，超時不好意思，謝謝。"],["吳主任委員誠文：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳培瑜委員。","接下來請萬美玲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":206,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-15","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","萬美玲","葉元之","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","羅廷瑋","張雅琳","葛如鈞","柯志恩","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","范雲","翁曉玲","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","吳春城","李柏毅","鍾佳濱","林倩綺","牛煦庭"],"page_start":143,"meetingDate":["2024-06-05"],"gazette_id":"1135902","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135902_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文、數位發展部列席就「人工智慧 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,289 --> 00:00:00,709\n陳培瑜主委\n\n2\n00:00:25,448 --> 00:00:44,861\n主委早安委員早主委我想這兩天的新聞你都非常了解但我想問一下剛剛莫凱委員已經問了您還沒有跟黃仁勳碰面那後續會有碰面的計畫嗎因為國科會其實身負著推動台灣AI產業這件事情是非常非常非常重要的政策地位那目前國科會有任何規劃嗎\n\n3\n00:00:46,636 --> 00:01:02,065\n啊我沒有跟黃�雲先生碰過面因為他是在在美光燈下所有的人都在追求的明星那我沒有機會我還沒有機會跟他碰面但是NVIDIA的主要的主管在台灣\n\n4\n00:01:03,266 --> 00:01:03,947\n主委您對這件事情有什麼看法?\n\n5\n00:01:31,738 --> 00:01:46,375\n我感覺非常光榮對對那你有去了解實務上是即將跟NVIDIA或者是在這個AI產業鏈當中南台科大或是其他大學會扮演什麼樣的角色那國科會在相關議題上又會扮演什麼樣的角色積極跟教育部合作或者是跨部會的討論\n\n6\n00:01:47,927 --> 00:02:14,289\n好謝謝委員我想NVIDIA大家也知道它已經宣布在台灣還要再投資算力甚至會可能會捐贈一部分的算力給我們的學術界所以我們會積極來協助NVIDIA跟我們學術界所有的學校其實也不只是列在這個它投影片上面的啦因為大部分的學校都有學者在使用NVIDIA的這個設備\n\n7\n00:02:16,030 --> 00:02:31,284\n在進行相關的不管是AI的研究或它的應用的研究現在都有所以我們會公平的去支持我們的學界積極的來跟NVIDIA合作利用它未來再建設更多的酸力來協助我們的這個科研的發展\n\n8\n00:02:31,564 --> 00:02:31,945\n我們同樣都會支持\n\n9\n00:02:48,928 --> 00:03:07,860\n是太好了那我們來看一下你又講到算力了黃仁勳之前呢在相關的訪談上在一個國外的媒體訪談上他提到每個國家我想就不再多念了他提到AI主權但是他在談一件事情也就是他這一次來台灣大力促進的一件事情就是每個國家都需要他們自己的AI工廠瓜胡講的是算力\n\n10\n00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:30,628\n算力這件事情其實我覺得是整個AI產業當中最大最大目前我自己盤點完各部會的工作狀態之後我覺得沒有被好好照顧到怎麼說我們來看一下目前從數法部你們跟我們的資料裡面提到你們要建置AI算力池所以數法部你們確實有想到算力這件事情國科會一樣講到算力\n\n11\n00:03:31,508 --> 00:03:36,773\n我們來看一下經濟部如同你剛說的他們建了台北ONE已經說要捐贈25%的算力給台灣的中小企業透過經濟部的角度所以已經有三個部會在談算力囉看起來已經有三個部會要投入算力的資源\n\n12\n00:03:47,924 --> 00:04:04,877\n除了公部門的資源來我們來看一下民間資源正位集團相關的新聞稿說在年底這個跟日本幼必達合資一樣要蓋一個算力中心前兩天黃仁勳來之後高雄積極爭取鴻海揮打要不要去高雄建制算力中心\n\n13\n00:04:05,618 --> 00:04:19,814\n主委有沒有發現民間的力量公部門的力量大家都要投資算力中心我當然現在不會烏鴉嘴的說有沒有可能有一天算力中心變文字館我不知道可是我擔心的是一旦算力及國力\n\n14\n00:04:20,595 --> 00:04:41,291\n那我們如何我們公部門政府資源如何看待算力及國力這件事情到底是國科會來主導還是經濟部還是數法部我們來看一下目前我很好奇問國科會你們有沒有認真盤點過往下後續開始規劃有哪些單位有多少單位他們需要算力而這些算力又會被放在哪些層面是產業開發\n\n15\n00:04:43,072 --> 00:04:43,112\n﹚培瑜\n\n16\n00:05:13,873 --> 00:05:39,094\n教育部也會參與他進來說找我找我我也需要算力目前我們都只有想到這些那有沒有其他部會需要算力目前國科會的角度跟想法走到哪裡我們國科會現在在統籌科技預算的編列所以我們會以整體政府部門投資算力來計算所以國科會要負責的是政府投資建置的算力中心是是是我們會引導民間投資\n\n17\n00:05:42,056 --> 00:06:03,954\n好,引導民間投資可是看起來民間投資如果補助是來自經濟部嘛像我剛剛說的那個鴻海前一個台北灣經濟部就補助了百分之多少的一個比例的金額去投資回答蓋那個台北灣那個算力中心那如果經濟部負責投資新建廠跟相關的補助那國科會如何引導那如果國科會如何協助學術端\n\n18\n00:06:04,694 --> 00:06:04,934\n委員講得非常的好\n\n19\n00:06:27,532 --> 00:06:51,217\n國科會一定要結合教育部因為國科會跟教育部是面對我們全國的大學的人力所以在研發在應用發展如果沒有人力你建再多的超級電腦資料中心都沒有用一定要有人力去應用這樣才會展現出國力出來這個我把它定位學術研究的發展學術研究還有應用研究都要做\n\n20\n00:06:51,357 --> 00:06:56,238\n學術研究與應用研究在學術界做出來的成果一定要結合到產業,還有辦法落地所以我們會資助經濟部編列相關預算來協助產業能夠接受這些技術把應用把它拓展到各行各業\n\n21\n00:07:20,424 --> 00:07:45,150\n聽起來主委您非常有概念也就是您的角色必須要主動發起跨部會的討論對不對好太好了我聽到這個承諾我們辦公室會持續追蹤因為算力這件事情它真的不能就只是放著或是告訴我們買了多少晶片用了多少電我覺得國人最後更關注或者是可能會產生相對剝奪感就是算力這件事情所以我辦公室積極的建議未來針對算力的需求國科會必須要主動盤點剛剛主委您也說了可是盤點必須要系統化科學化的方法\n\n22\n00:07:49,791 --> 00:08:09,116\n還有在不同的產業不同的學術研究不同的產業應用研究最後一個我要先提醒目前台灣由公部門投資興建的算力中心相關的應用是不是可以優先滿足台灣國內學術研究跟產業發展為主而不要有變相補貼業者轉賣獲取利益剛剛主委你說了你會跟經濟部跨部會討論這個部分我要拜託主委先行幫忙注意這件事情\n\n23\n00:08:17,398 --> 00:08:34,910\n我非常同意委員我會努力來做這件事好那我們辦公室會持續追蹤那剛剛洪孟凱委員有一件事情說一個禮拜你說太趕目前這個相關的規劃跟研議我說一個月時間上是可行的嗎你看一下頭影片我寫很多事情齁好這個要兩個月好沒問題\n\n24\n00:08:36,941 --> 00:08:54,717\n今天我要協調各部會提出具體方案兩個月後會宣布所以我們幾乎可以認識一件很重要的事情就是在剛剛討論完之後就是算力這件事情不管是學術研究相關盤點後續的規劃您會協同速發部、教育部、經濟部跟其他相關部會由您國科會來開啟主動相關討論對嗎?\n\n25\n00:08:57,579 --> 00:09:22,315\n對好謝謝主委謝謝你勇於認識那我們來看一個卓院長說了要以臺灣文化為基底做臺灣自己的語言模型這件事情我們完全認同在多年前臺灣有非常多專家學者也已經提出這個建議目前我們在國科會你們的TIDE模型裡面看到你們用了這些資料合作單位有公部門的也有私部門的像金周刊是私部門公部門很多我不再贅述還有這麼多那我要問一下\n\n26\n00:09:23,861 --> 00:09:45,241\n還有很多所謂民間資源主委你有沒有看過這個在北港武德宮財神開祭祖廟他們買了一台人工智慧機器你有沒有看過這個新聞我跟你說他們買來做什麼有人就問說以後是要問神還是要問AI他說沒有啦我們要拿來解經還要解卵文那意思就是說有很多民間衣錦委員笑了這樣\n\n27\n00:09:46,022 --> 00:10:07,262\n解禁就是他們有讀那個吳德公有推廣一個叫財神經吳德真經讀起來很能懂他們讓AI去幫忙翻譯解釋給一般人聽還有那個卵文大家知道什麼是卵文他說一般人寫一寫一般人看不懂他們很多師兄師姐解釋花很多力氣他們發現導入AI解讀很有幫助這個是非常台灣在地的文化\n\n28\n00:10:08,524 --> 00:10:34,867\n如果我們要發展台灣自己具有在地文化人文關懷精神那這個只是我舉一個例子我沒有真的要叫主委去做這件事情因為您剛剛的這個網頁上放了這些很正式的很官方的資料這個大家完全都可以理解可是我必須要一個更民間的文化來跟主委分享我們如何在台灣這個TED模型當中持續引入台灣本地的關懷跟本地的文化這件事情您是否認同認同\n\n29\n00:10:36,288 --> 00:10:39,091\n這只是舉例,大家不要急著去找這個我們來看一下目前這個TED模型你們的訓練因為訓練有分PRE-CHAN然後SFTDATA還有另外一個是資料合作單位你們目前我看起來沒有策展概念看起來就是公務門可以撈的先撈過來\n\n30\n00:10:56,308 --> 00:11:19,668\n合作單位可以談的先談過來可是這些資料的用法它到底是在pre-trend階段來用還是SFT階段來用我覺得主委我不知道目前您的幕僚嗎跟你報告目前這些資料的使用還有如果在你們國科會的報告裡面你們提到要進入更專門領域的語言模型對嗎也就是例如說法律經濟或者是教育學\n\n31\n00:11:46,092 --> 00:12:08,122\n目前的狀況是因為我們第一年是我們要先把沒有那個版權爭議的我們都先抓過來先抓過來對然後維護隱私權等等不能侵犯是這些資料我們先做但是未來我們接下來會進入推廣的階段是推廣階段我們就會廣泛的在各行各業各個應用領域我們會有更多的訓練資料就會進來\n\n32\n00:12:09,543 --> 00:12:37,120\n做各個各別的不同的專業用途所以委員講的是非常對這個會非常非常花時間而且也很需要專業的人力來協助所以我才會寫SFTData這件事情我相信主委你一定非常清楚所以我積極的建議目前在選定資料提供的合作單位拜託有更全面的規劃不管是專業性的或是通用性的甚至在國科會的報告裡面你們自己提到還要做多模態AI這件事情它非常非常持資料量對嗎\n\n33\n00:12:38,041 --> 00:13:01,853\n好那這件事情我們如何採用本地的資料有效迅速而且可信度高這件事情我相信是重要還有相關的授權法規但聽起來主委您已經知道了相關智慧產權的授權相關的權益還有跟各個專業領域合作因為國科會絕對可以找到非常多專業的學術單位積極的願意提供資料為進我們的目前這個台灣Data這個模型當中對嗎\n\n34\n00:13:03,433 --> 00:13:20,906\n但是必須要積極的規劃而不是給資料採集小組他們只是隨機的去做最後拜託資料品質的確保這件事情我們目前有沒有投入資源去規劃有資料品質我們非常注重我們不會用假資料那相關的資源跟規劃是什麼如何再一次確保那個資料品質是透過瑞格嗎還是\n\n35\n00:13:25,982 --> 00:13:26,843\n謝謝主委謝謝主席不好意思超時謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n289\t709\t陳培瑜主委\n25448\t44861\t主委早安委員早主委我想這兩天的新聞你都非常了解但我想問一下剛剛莫凱委員已經問了您還沒有跟黃仁勳碰面那後續會有碰面的計畫嗎因為國科會其實身負著推動台灣AI產業這件事情是非常非常非常重要的政策地位那目前國科會有任何規劃嗎\n46636\t62065\t啊我沒有跟黃�雲先生碰過面因為他是在在美光燈下所有的人都在追求的明星那我沒有機會我還沒有機會跟他碰面但是NVIDIA的主要的主管在台灣\n63266\t63947\t主委您對這件事情有什麼看法?\n91738\t106375\t我感覺非常光榮對對那你有去了解實務上是即將跟NVIDIA或者是在這個AI產業鏈當中南台科大或是其他大學會扮演什麼樣的角色那國科會在相關議題上又會扮演什麼樣的角色積極跟教育部合作或者是跨部會的討論\n107927\t134289\t好 謝謝委員我想NVIDIA大家也知道它已經宣布在台灣還要再投資算力甚至會可能會捐贈一部分的算力給我們的學術界所以我們會積極來協助NVIDIA跟我們學術界所有的學校其實也不只是列在這個它投影片上面的啦因為大部分的學校都有學者在使用NVIDIA的這個設備\n136030\t151284\t在進行相關的不管是AI的研究或它的應用的研究現在都有所以我們會公平的去支持我們的學界積極的來跟NVIDIA合作利用它未來再建設更多的酸力來協助我們的這個科研的發展\n151564\t151945\t我們同樣都會支持\n168928\t187860\t是 太好了 那我們來看一下 你又講到算力了 黃仁勳之前呢 在相關的訪談上 在一個國外的媒體訪談上 他提到每個國家 我想就不再多念了 他提到AI主權 但是他在談一件事情 也就是他這一次來台灣大力促進的一件事情 就是每個國家都需要他們自己的AI工廠 瓜胡講的是算力\n188400\t210628\t算力這件事情其實我覺得是整個AI產業當中最大最大目前我自己盤點完各部會的工作狀態之後我覺得沒有被好好照顧到怎麼說我們來看一下目前從數法部你們跟我們的資料裡面提到你們要建置AI算力池所以數法部你們確實有想到算力這件事情國科會一樣講到算力\n211508\t216773\t我們來看一下經濟部如同你剛說的他們建了台北ONE已經說要捐贈25%的算力給台灣的中小企業透過經濟部的角度所以已經有三個部會在談算力囉看起來已經有三個部會要投入算力的資源\n227924\t244877\t除了公部門的資源來我們來看一下民間資源正位集團相關的新聞稿說在年底這個跟日本幼必達合資一樣要蓋一個算力中心前兩天黃仁勳來之後高雄積極爭取鴻海揮打要不要去高雄建制算力中心\n245618\t259814\t主委有沒有發現民間的力量公部門的力量大家都要投資算力中心我當然現在不會烏鴉嘴的說有沒有可能有一天算力中心變文字館我不知道可是我擔心的是一旦算力及國力\n260595\t281291\t那我們如何我們公部門政府資源如何看待算力及國力這件事情到底是國科會來主導還是經濟部還是數法部我們來看一下目前我很好奇問國科會你們有沒有認真盤點過往下後續開始規劃有哪些單位有多少單位他們需要算力而這些算力又會被放在哪些層面是產業開發\n283072\t283112\t﹚培瑜\n313873\t339094\t教育部也會參與他進來說找我找我我也需要算力目前我們都只有想到這些那有沒有其他部會需要算力目前國科會的角度跟想法走到哪裡我們國科會現在在統籌科技預算的編列所以我們會以整體政府部門投資算力來計算所以國科會要負責的是政府投資建置的算力中心是是是我們會引導民間投資\n342056\t363954\t好,引導民間投資可是看起來民間投資如果補助是來自經濟部嘛像我剛剛說的那個鴻海前一個台北灣經濟部就補助了百分之多少的一個比例的金額去投資回答蓋那個台北灣那個算力中心那如果經濟部負責投資新建廠跟相關的補助那國科會如何引導那如果國科會如何協助學術端\n364694\t364934\t委員講得非常的好\n387532\t411217\t國科會一定要結合教育部因為國科會跟教育部是面對我們全國的大學的人力所以在研發在應用發展如果沒有人力你建再多的超級電腦資料中心都沒有用一定要有人力去應用這樣才會展現出國力出來這個我把它定位學術研究的發展學術研究還有應用研究都要做\n411357\t416238\t學術研究與應用研究在學術界做出來的成果一定要結合到產業,還有辦法落地所以我們會資助經濟部編列相關預算來協助產業能夠接受這些技術把應用把它拓展到各行各業\n440424\t465150\t聽起來主委您非常有概念也就是您的角色必須要主動發起跨部會的討論對不對好太好了我聽到這個承諾我們辦公室會持續追蹤因為算力這件事情它真的不能就只是放著或是告訴我們買了多少晶片用了多少電我覺得國人最後更關注或者是可能會產生相對剝奪感就是算力這件事情所以我辦公室積極的建議未來針對算力的需求國科會必須要主動盤點剛剛主委您也說了可是盤點必須要系統化科學化的方法\n469791\t489116\t還有在不同的產業不同的學術研究不同的產業應用研究最後一個我要先提醒目前台灣由公部門投資興建的算力中心相關的應用是不是可以優先滿足台灣國內學術研究跟產業發展為主而不要有變相補貼業者轉賣獲取利益剛剛主委你說了你會跟經濟部跨部會討論這個部分我要拜託主委先行幫忙注意這件事情\n497398\t514910\t我非常同意委員 我會努力來做這件事好 那我們辦公室會持續追蹤那剛剛洪孟凱委員有一件事情說一個禮拜你說太趕目前這個相關的規劃跟研議我說一個月 時間上是可行的嗎你看一下頭影片 我寫很多事情齁好 這個要兩個月好 沒問題\n516941\t534717\t今天我要協調各部會提出具體方案兩個月後會宣布所以我們幾乎可以認識一件很重要的事情就是在剛剛討論完之後就是算力這件事情不管是學術研究相關盤點後續的規劃您會協同速發部、教育部、經濟部跟其他相關部會由您國科會來開啟主動相關討論對嗎?\n537579\t562315\t對好謝謝主委謝謝你勇於認識那我們來看一個卓院長說了要以臺灣文化為基底做臺灣自己的語言模型這件事情我們完全認同在多年前臺灣有非常多專家學者也已經提出這個建議目前我們在國科會你們的TIDE模型裡面看到你們用了這些資料合作單位有公部門的也有私部門的像金周刊是私部門公部門很多我不再贅述還有這麼多那我要問一下\n563861\t585241\t還有很多所謂民間資源主委你有沒有看過這個在北港武德宮財神開祭祖廟他們買了一台人工智慧機器你有沒有看過這個新聞我跟你說他們買來做什麼有人就問說以後是要問神還是要問AI他說沒有啦我們要拿來解經還要解卵文那意思就是說有很多民間衣錦委員笑了這樣\n586022\t607262\t解禁就是他們有讀那個吳德公有推廣一個叫財神經吳德真經讀起來很能懂他們讓AI去幫忙翻譯解釋給一般人聽還有那個卵文大家知道什麼是卵文他說一般人寫一寫一般人看不懂他們很多師兄師姐解釋花很多力氣他們發現導入AI解讀很有幫助這個是非常台灣在地的文化\n608524\t634867\t如果我們要發展台灣自己具有在地文化人文關懷精神那這個只是我舉一個例子我沒有真的要叫主委去做這件事情因為您剛剛的這個網頁上放了這些很正式的很官方的資料這個大家完全都可以理解可是我必須要一個更民間的文化來跟主委分享我們如何在台灣這個TED模型當中持續引入台灣本地的關懷跟本地的文化這件事情您是否認同認同\n636288\t639091\t這只是舉例,大家不要急著去找這個我們來看一下目前這個TED模型你們的訓練因為訓練有分PRE-CHAN然後SFT DATA還有另外一個是資料合作單位你們目前我看起來沒有策展概念看起來就是公務門可以撈的先撈過來\n656308\t679668\t合作單位可以談的先談過來可是這些資料的用法它到底是在pre-trend階段來用還是SFT階段來用我覺得主委我不知道目前您的幕僚嗎跟你報告目前這些資料的使用還有如果在你們國科會的報告裡面你們提到要進入更專門領域的語言模型對嗎也就是例如說法律經濟或者是教育學\n680128\t705930\t謝謝\n706092\t728122\t目前的狀況是因為我們第一年是我們要先把沒有那個版權爭議的我們都先抓過來先抓過來對然後維護隱私權等等不能侵犯是這些資料我們先做但是未來我們接下來會進入推廣的階段是推廣階段我們就會廣泛的在各行各業各個應用領域我們會有更多的訓練資料就會進來\n729543\t757120\t做各個各別的不同的專業用途所以委員講的是非常對這個會非常非常花時間而且也很需要專業的人力來協助所以我才會寫SFT Data這件事情我相信主委你一定非常清楚所以我積極的建議目前在選定資料提供的合作單位拜託有更全面的規劃不管是專業性的或是通用性的甚至在國科會的報告裡面你們自己提到還要做多模態AI這件事情它非常非常持資料量對嗎\n758041\t781853\t好那這件事情我們如何採用本地的資料有效迅速而且可信度高這件事情我相信是重要還有相關的授權法規但聽起來主委您已經知道了相關智慧產權的授權相關的權益還有跟各個專業領域合作因為國科會絕對可以找到非常多專業的學術單位積極的願意提供資料為進我們的目前這個台灣Data這個模型當中對嗎\n783433\t800906\t但是必須要積極的規劃而不是給資料採集小組他們只是隨機的去做最後拜託資料品質的確保這件事情我們目前有沒有投入資源去規劃有資料品質我們非常注重我們不會用假資料那相關的資源跟規劃是什麼如何再一次確保那個資料品質是透過瑞格嗎還是\n805982\t806843\t謝謝主委 謝謝主席不好意思超時 謝謝\n","txt":"陳培瑜主委\n主委早安委員早主委我想這兩天的新聞你都非常了解但我想問一下剛剛莫凱委員已經問了您還沒有跟黃仁勳碰面那後續會有碰面的計畫嗎因為國科會其實身負著推動台灣AI產業這件事情是非常非常非常重要的政策地位那目前國科會有任何規劃嗎\n啊我沒有跟黃�雲先生碰過面因為他是在在美光燈下所有的人都在追求的明星那我沒有機會我還沒有機會跟他碰面但是NVIDIA的主要的主管在台灣\n主委您對這件事情有什麼看法?\n我感覺非常光榮對對那你有去了解實務上是即將跟NVIDIA或者是在這個AI產業鏈當中南台科大或是其他大學會扮演什麼樣的角色那國科會在相關議題上又會扮演什麼樣的角色積極跟教育部合作或者是跨部會的討論\n好 謝謝委員我想NVIDIA大家也知道它已經宣布在台灣還要再投資算力甚至會可能會捐贈一部分的算力給我們的學術界所以我們會積極來協助NVIDIA跟我們學術界所有的學校其實也不只是列在這個它投影片上面的啦因為大部分的學校都有學者在使用NVIDIA的這個設備\n在進行相關的不管是AI的研究或它的應用的研究現在都有所以我們會公平的去支持我們的學界積極的來跟NVIDIA合作利用它未來再建設更多的酸力來協助我們的這個科研的發展\n我們同樣都會支持\n是 太好了 那我們來看一下 你又講到算力了 黃仁勳之前呢 在相關的訪談上 在一個國外的媒體訪談上 他提到每個國家 我想就不再多念了 他提到AI主權 但是他在談一件事情 也就是他這一次來台灣大力促進的一件事情 就是每個國家都需要他們自己的AI工廠 瓜胡講的是算力\n算力這件事情其實我覺得是整個AI產業當中最大最大目前我自己盤點完各部會的工作狀態之後我覺得沒有被好好照顧到怎麼說我們來看一下目前從數法部你們跟我們的資料裡面提到你們要建置AI算力池所以數法部你們確實有想到算力這件事情國科會一樣講到算力\n我們來看一下經濟部如同你剛說的他們建了台北ONE已經說要捐贈25%的算力給台灣的中小企業透過經濟部的角度所以已經有三個部會在談算力囉看起來已經有三個部會要投入算力的資源\n除了公部門的資源來我們來看一下民間資源正位集團相關的新聞稿說在年底這個跟日本幼必達合資一樣要蓋一個算力中心前兩天黃仁勳來之後高雄積極爭取鴻海揮打要不要去高雄建制算力中心\n主委有沒有發現民間的力量公部門的力量大家都要投資算力中心我當然現在不會烏鴉嘴的說有沒有可能有一天算力中心變文字館我不知道可是我擔心的是一旦算力及國力\n那我們如何我們公部門政府資源如何看待算力及國力這件事情到底是國科會來主導還是經濟部還是數法部我們來看一下目前我很好奇問國科會你們有沒有認真盤點過往下後續開始規劃有哪些單位有多少單位他們需要算力而這些算力又會被放在哪些層面是產業開發\n﹚培瑜\n教育部也會參與他進來說找我找我我也需要算力目前我們都只有想到這些那有沒有其他部會需要算力目前國科會的角度跟想法走到哪裡我們國科會現在在統籌科技預算的編列所以我們會以整體政府部門投資算力來計算所以國科會要負責的是政府投資建置的算力中心是是是我們會引導民間投資\n好,引導民間投資可是看起來民間投資如果補助是來自經濟部嘛像我剛剛說的那個鴻海前一個台北灣經濟部就補助了百分之多少的一個比例的金額去投資回答蓋那個台北灣那個算力中心那如果經濟部負責投資新建廠跟相關的補助那國科會如何引導那如果國科會如何協助學術端\n委員講得非常的好\n國科會一定要結合教育部因為國科會跟教育部是面對我們全國的大學的人力所以在研發在應用發展如果沒有人力你建再多的超級電腦資料中心都沒有用一定要有人力去應用這樣才會展現出國力出來這個我把它定位學術研究的發展學術研究還有應用研究都要做\n學術研究與應用研究在學術界做出來的成果一定要結合到產業,還有辦法落地所以我們會資助經濟部編列相關預算來協助產業能夠接受這些技術把應用把它拓展到各行各業\n聽起來主委您非常有概念也就是您的角色必須要主動發起跨部會的討論對不對好太好了我聽到這個承諾我們辦公室會持續追蹤因為算力這件事情它真的不能就只是放著或是告訴我們買了多少晶片用了多少電我覺得國人最後更關注或者是可能會產生相對剝奪感就是算力這件事情所以我辦公室積極的建議未來針對算力的需求國科會必須要主動盤點剛剛主委您也說了可是盤點必須要系統化科學化的方法\n還有在不同的產業不同的學術研究不同的產業應用研究最後一個我要先提醒目前台灣由公部門投資興建的算力中心相關的應用是不是可以優先滿足台灣國內學術研究跟產業發展為主而不要有變相補貼業者轉賣獲取利益剛剛主委你說了你會跟經濟部跨部會討論這個部分我要拜託主委先行幫忙注意這件事情\n我非常同意委員 我會努力來做這件事好 那我們辦公室會持續追蹤那剛剛洪孟凱委員有一件事情說一個禮拜你說太趕目前這個相關的規劃跟研議我說一個月 時間上是可行的嗎你看一下頭影片 我寫很多事情齁好 這個要兩個月好 沒問題\n今天我要協調各部會提出具體方案兩個月後會宣布所以我們幾乎可以認識一件很重要的事情就是在剛剛討論完之後就是算力這件事情不管是學術研究相關盤點後續的規劃您會協同速發部、教育部、經濟部跟其他相關部會由您國科會來開啟主動相關討論對嗎?\n對好謝謝主委謝謝你勇於認識那我們來看一個卓院長說了要以臺灣文化為基底做臺灣自己的語言模型這件事情我們完全認同在多年前臺灣有非常多專家學者也已經提出這個建議目前我們在國科會你們的TIDE模型裡面看到你們用了這些資料合作單位有公部門的也有私部門的像金周刊是私部門公部門很多我不再贅述還有這麼多那我要問一下\n還有很多所謂民間資源主委你有沒有看過這個在北港武德宮財神開祭祖廟他們買了一台人工智慧機器你有沒有看過這個新聞我跟你說他們買來做什麼有人就問說以後是要問神還是要問AI他說沒有啦我們要拿來解經還要解卵文那意思就是說有很多民間衣錦委員笑了這樣\n解禁就是他們有讀那個吳德公有推廣一個叫財神經吳德真經讀起來很能懂他們讓AI去幫忙翻譯解釋給一般人聽還有那個卵文大家知道什麼是卵文他說一般人寫一寫一般人看不懂他們很多師兄師姐解釋花很多力氣他們發現導入AI解讀很有幫助這個是非常台灣在地的文化\n如果我們要發展台灣自己具有在地文化人文關懷精神那這個只是我舉一個例子我沒有真的要叫主委去做這件事情因為您剛剛的這個網頁上放了這些很正式的很官方的資料這個大家完全都可以理解可是我必須要一個更民間的文化來跟主委分享我們如何在台灣這個TED模型當中持續引入台灣本地的關懷跟本地的文化這件事情您是否認同認同\n這只是舉例,大家不要急著去找這個我們來看一下目前這個TED模型你們的訓練因為訓練有分PRE-CHAN然後SFT DATA還有另外一個是資料合作單位你們目前我看起來沒有策展概念看起來就是公務門可以撈的先撈過來\n合作單位可以談的先談過來可是這些資料的用法它到底是在pre-trend階段來用還是SFT階段來用我覺得主委我不知道目前您的幕僚嗎跟你報告目前這些資料的使用還有如果在你們國科會的報告裡面你們提到要進入更專門領域的語言模型對嗎也就是例如說法律經濟或者是教育學\n謝謝\n目前的狀況是因為我們第一年是我們要先把沒有那個版權爭議的我們都先抓過來先抓過來對然後維護隱私權等等不能侵犯是這些資料我們先做但是未來我們接下來會進入推廣的階段是推廣階段我們就會廣泛的在各行各業各個應用領域我們會有更多的訓練資料就會進來\n做各個各別的不同的專業用途所以委員講的是非常對這個會非常非常花時間而且也很需要專業的人力來協助所以我才會寫SFT Data這件事情我相信主委你一定非常清楚所以我積極的建議目前在選定資料提供的合作單位拜託有更全面的規劃不管是專業性的或是通用性的甚至在國科會的報告裡面你們自己提到還要做多模態AI這件事情它非常非常持資料量對嗎\n好那這件事情我們如何採用本地的資料有效迅速而且可信度高這件事情我相信是重要還有相關的授權法規但聽起來主委您已經知道了相關智慧產權的授權相關的權益還有跟各個專業領域合作因為國科會絕對可以找到非常多專業的學術單位積極的願意提供資料為進我們的目前這個台灣Data這個模型當中對嗎\n但是必須要積極的規劃而不是給資料採集小組他們只是隨機的去做最後拜託資料品質的確保這件事情我們目前有沒有投入資源去規劃有資料品質我們非常注重我們不會用假資料那相關的資源跟規劃是什麼如何再一次確保那個資料品質是透過瑞格嗎還是\n謝謝主委 謝謝主席不好意思超時 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.289 --> 00:00.709\n陳培瑜主委\n\n00:25.448 --> 00:44.861\n主委早安委員早主委我想這兩天的新聞你都非常了解但我想問一下剛剛莫凱委員已經問了您還沒有跟黃仁勳碰面那後續會有碰面的計畫嗎因為國科會其實身負著推動台灣AI產業這件事情是非常非常非常重要的政策地位那目前國科會有任何規劃嗎\n\n00:46.636 --> 01:02.065\n啊我沒有跟黃�雲先生碰過面因為他是在在美光燈下所有的人都在追求的明星那我沒有機會我還沒有機會跟他碰面但是NVIDIA的主要的主管在台灣\n\n01:03.266 --> 01:03.947\n主委您對這件事情有什麼看法?\n\n01:31.738 --> 01:46.375\n我感覺非常光榮對對那你有去了解實務上是即將跟NVIDIA或者是在這個AI產業鏈當中南台科大或是其他大學會扮演什麼樣的角色那國科會在相關議題上又會扮演什麼樣的角色積極跟教育部合作或者是跨部會的討論\n\n01:47.927 --> 02:14.289\n好謝謝委員我想NVIDIA大家也知道它已經宣布在台灣還要再投資算力甚至會可能會捐贈一部分的算力給我們的學術界所以我們會積極來協助NVIDIA跟我們學術界所有的學校其實也不只是列在這個它投影片上面的啦因為大部分的學校都有學者在使用NVIDIA的這個設備\n\n02:16.030 --> 02:31.284\n在進行相關的不管是AI的研究或它的應用的研究現在都有所以我們會公平的去支持我們的學界積極的來跟NVIDIA合作利用它未來再建設更多的酸力來協助我們的這個科研的發展\n\n02:31.564 --> 02:31.945\n我們同樣都會支持\n\n02:48.928 --> 03:07.860\n是太好了那我們來看一下你又講到算力了黃仁勳之前呢在相關的訪談上在一個國外的媒體訪談上他提到每個國家我想就不再多念了他提到AI主權但是他在談一件事情也就是他這一次來台灣大力促進的一件事情就是每個國家都需要他們自己的AI工廠瓜胡講的是算力\n\n03:08.400 --> 03:30.628\n算力這件事情其實我覺得是整個AI產業當中最大最大目前我自己盤點完各部會的工作狀態之後我覺得沒有被好好照顧到怎麼說我們來看一下目前從數法部你們跟我們的資料裡面提到你們要建置AI算力池所以數法部你們確實有想到算力這件事情國科會一樣講到算力\n\n03:31.508 --> 03:36.773\n我們來看一下經濟部如同你剛說的他們建了台北ONE已經說要捐贈25%的算力給台灣的中小企業透過經濟部的角度所以已經有三個部會在談算力囉看起來已經有三個部會要投入算力的資源\n\n03:47.924 --> 04:04.877\n除了公部門的資源來我們來看一下民間資源正位集團相關的新聞稿說在年底這個跟日本幼必達合資一樣要蓋一個算力中心前兩天黃仁勳來之後高雄積極爭取鴻海揮打要不要去高雄建制算力中心\n\n04:05.618 --> 04:19.814\n主委有沒有發現民間的力量公部門的力量大家都要投資算力中心我當然現在不會烏鴉嘴的說有沒有可能有一天算力中心變文字館我不知道可是我擔心的是一旦算力及國力\n\n04:20.595 --> 04:41.291\n那我們如何我們公部門政府資源如何看待算力及國力這件事情到底是國科會來主導還是經濟部還是數法部我們來看一下目前我很好奇問國科會你們有沒有認真盤點過往下後續開始規劃有哪些單位有多少單位他們需要算力而這些算力又會被放在哪些層面是產業開發\n\n04:43.072 --> 04:43.112\n﹚培瑜\n\n05:13.873 --> 05:39.094\n教育部也會參與他進來說找我找我我也需要算力目前我們都只有想到這些那有沒有其他部會需要算力目前國科會的角度跟想法走到哪裡我們國科會現在在統籌科技預算的編列所以我們會以整體政府部門投資算力來計算所以國科會要負責的是政府投資建置的算力中心是是是我們會引導民間投資\n\n05:42.056 --> 06:03.954\n好,引導民間投資可是看起來民間投資如果補助是來自經濟部嘛像我剛剛說的那個鴻海前一個台北灣經濟部就補助了百分之多少的一個比例的金額去投資回答蓋那個台北灣那個算力中心那如果經濟部負責投資新建廠跟相關的補助那國科會如何引導那如果國科會如何協助學術端\n\n06:04.694 --> 06:04.934\n委員講得非常的好\n\n06:27.532 --> 06:51.217\n國科會一定要結合教育部因為國科會跟教育部是面對我們全國的大學的人力所以在研發在應用發展如果沒有人力你建再多的超級電腦資料中心都沒有用一定要有人力去應用這樣才會展現出國力出來這個我把它定位學術研究的發展學術研究還有應用研究都要做\n\n06:51.357 --> 06:56.238\n學術研究與應用研究在學術界做出來的成果一定要結合到產業,還有辦法落地所以我們會資助經濟部編列相關預算來協助產業能夠接受這些技術把應用把它拓展到各行各業\n\n07:20.424 --> 07:45.150\n聽起來主委您非常有概念也就是您的角色必須要主動發起跨部會的討論對不對好太好了我聽到這個承諾我們辦公室會持續追蹤因為算力這件事情它真的不能就只是放著或是告訴我們買了多少晶片用了多少電我覺得國人最後更關注或者是可能會產生相對剝奪感就是算力這件事情所以我辦公室積極的建議未來針對算力的需求國科會必須要主動盤點剛剛主委您也說了可是盤點必須要系統化科學化的方法\n\n07:49.791 --> 08:09.116\n還有在不同的產業不同的學術研究不同的產業應用研究最後一個我要先提醒目前台灣由公部門投資興建的算力中心相關的應用是不是可以優先滿足台灣國內學術研究跟產業發展為主而不要有變相補貼業者轉賣獲取利益剛剛主委你說了你會跟經濟部跨部會討論這個部分我要拜託主委先行幫忙注意這件事情\n\n08:17.398 --> 08:34.910\n我非常同意委員我會努力來做這件事好那我們辦公室會持續追蹤那剛剛洪孟凱委員有一件事情說一個禮拜你說太趕目前這個相關的規劃跟研議我說一個月時間上是可行的嗎你看一下頭影片我寫很多事情齁好這個要兩個月好沒問題\n\n08:36.941 --> 08:54.717\n今天我要協調各部會提出具體方案兩個月後會宣布所以我們幾乎可以認識一件很重要的事情就是在剛剛討論完之後就是算力這件事情不管是學術研究相關盤點後續的規劃您會協同速發部、教育部、經濟部跟其他相關部會由您國科會來開啟主動相關討論對嗎?\n\n08:57.579 --> 09:22.315\n對好謝謝主委謝謝你勇於認識那我們來看一個卓院長說了要以臺灣文化為基底做臺灣自己的語言模型這件事情我們完全認同在多年前臺灣有非常多專家學者也已經提出這個建議目前我們在國科會你們的TIDE模型裡面看到你們用了這些資料合作單位有公部門的也有私部門的像金周刊是私部門公部門很多我不再贅述還有這麼多那我要問一下\n\n09:23.861 --> 09:45.241\n還有很多所謂民間資源主委你有沒有看過這個在北港武德宮財神開祭祖廟他們買了一台人工智慧機器你有沒有看過這個新聞我跟你說他們買來做什麼有人就問說以後是要問神還是要問AI他說沒有啦我們要拿來解經還要解卵文那意思就是說有很多民間衣錦委員笑了這樣\n\n09:46.022 --> 10:07.262\n解禁就是他們有讀那個吳德公有推廣一個叫財神經吳德真經讀起來很能懂他們讓AI去幫忙翻譯解釋給一般人聽還有那個卵文大家知道什麼是卵文他說一般人寫一寫一般人看不懂他們很多師兄師姐解釋花很多力氣他們發現導入AI解讀很有幫助這個是非常台灣在地的文化\n\n10:08.524 --> 10:34.867\n如果我們要發展台灣自己具有在地文化人文關懷精神那這個只是我舉一個例子我沒有真的要叫主委去做這件事情因為您剛剛的這個網頁上放了這些很正式的很官方的資料這個大家完全都可以理解可是我必須要一個更民間的文化來跟主委分享我們如何在台灣這個TED模型當中持續引入台灣本地的關懷跟本地的文化這件事情您是否認同認同\n\n10:36.288 --> 10:39.091\n這只是舉例,大家不要急著去找這個我們來看一下目前這個TED模型你們的訓練因為訓練有分PRE-CHAN然後SFTDATA還有另外一個是資料合作單位你們目前我看起來沒有策展概念看起來就是公務門可以撈的先撈過來\n\n10:56.308 --> 11:19.668\n合作單位可以談的先談過來可是這些資料的用法它到底是在pre-trend階段來用還是SFT階段來用我覺得主委我不知道目前您的幕僚嗎跟你報告目前這些資料的使用還有如果在你們國科會的報告裡面你們提到要進入更專門領域的語言模型對嗎也就是例如說法律經濟或者是教育學\n\n11:46.092 --> 12:08.122\n目前的狀況是因為我們第一年是我們要先把沒有那個版權爭議的我們都先抓過來先抓過來對然後維護隱私權等等不能侵犯是這些資料我們先做但是未來我們接下來會進入推廣的階段是推廣階段我們就會廣泛的在各行各業各個應用領域我們會有更多的訓練資料就會進來\n\n12:09.543 --> 12:37.120\n做各個各別的不同的專業用途所以委員講的是非常對這個會非常非常花時間而且也很需要專業的人力來協助所以我才會寫SFTData這件事情我相信主委你一定非常清楚所以我積極的建議目前在選定資料提供的合作單位拜託有更全面的規劃不管是專業性的或是通用性的甚至在國科會的報告裡面你們自己提到還要做多模態AI這件事情它非常非常持資料量對嗎\n\n12:38.041 --> 13:01.853\n好那這件事情我們如何採用本地的資料有效迅速而且可信度高這件事情我相信是重要還有相關的授權法規但聽起來主委您已經知道了相關智慧產權的授權相關的權益還有跟各個專業領域合作因為國科會絕對可以找到非常多專業的學術單位積極的願意提供資料為進我們的目前這個台灣Data這個模型當中對嗎\n\n13:03.433 --> 13:20.906\n但是必須要積極的規劃而不是給資料採集小組他們只是隨機的去做最後拜託資料品質的確保這件事情我們目前有沒有投入資源去規劃有資料品質我們非常注重我們不會用假資料那相關的資源跟規劃是什麼如何再一次確保那個資料品質是透過瑞格嗎還是\n\n13:25.982 --> 13:26.843\n謝謝主委謝謝主席不好意思超時謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.289,"end":0.709,"text":"陳培瑜主委"},{"start":25.448,"end":44.861,"text":"主委早安委員早主委我想這兩天的新聞你都非常了解但我想問一下剛剛莫凱委員已經問了您還沒有跟黃仁勳碰面那後續會有碰面的計畫嗎因為國科會其實身負著推動台灣AI產業這件事情是非常非常非常重要的政策地位那目前國科會有任何規劃嗎"},{"start":46.636,"end":62.065,"text":"啊我沒有跟黃�雲先生碰過面因為他是在在美光燈下所有的人都在追求的明星那我沒有機會我還沒有機會跟他碰面但是NVIDIA的主要的主管在台灣"},{"start":63.266,"end":63.947,"text":"主委您對這件事情有什麼看法?"},{"start":91.738,"end":106.375,"text":"我感覺非常光榮對對那你有去了解實務上是即將跟NVIDIA或者是在這個AI產業鏈當中南台科大或是其他大學會扮演什麼樣的角色那國科會在相關議題上又會扮演什麼樣的角色積極跟教育部合作或者是跨部會的討論"},{"start":107.927,"end":134.289,"text":"好 謝謝委員我想NVIDIA大家也知道它已經宣布在台灣還要再投資算力甚至會可能會捐贈一部分的算力給我們的學術界所以我們會積極來協助NVIDIA跟我們學術界所有的學校其實也不只是列在這個它投影片上面的啦因為大部分的學校都有學者在使用NVIDIA的這個設備"},{"start":136.03,"end":151.284,"text":"在進行相關的不管是AI的研究或它的應用的研究現在都有所以我們會公平的去支持我們的學界積極的來跟NVIDIA合作利用它未來再建設更多的酸力來協助我們的這個科研的發展"},{"start":151.564,"end":151.945,"text":"我們同樣都會支持"},{"start":168.928,"end":187.86,"text":"是 太好了 那我們來看一下 你又講到算力了 黃仁勳之前呢 在相關的訪談上 在一個國外的媒體訪談上 他提到每個國家 我想就不再多念了 他提到AI主權 但是他在談一件事情 也就是他這一次來台灣大力促進的一件事情 就是每個國家都需要他們自己的AI工廠 瓜胡講的是算力"},{"start":188.4,"end":210.628,"text":"算力這件事情其實我覺得是整個AI產業當中最大最大目前我自己盤點完各部會的工作狀態之後我覺得沒有被好好照顧到怎麼說我們來看一下目前從數法部你們跟我們的資料裡面提到你們要建置AI算力池所以數法部你們確實有想到算力這件事情國科會一樣講到算力"},{"start":211.508,"end":216.773,"text":"我們來看一下經濟部如同你剛說的他們建了台北ONE已經說要捐贈25%的算力給台灣的中小企業透過經濟部的角度所以已經有三個部會在談算力囉看起來已經有三個部會要投入算力的資源"},{"start":227.924,"end":244.877,"text":"除了公部門的資源來我們來看一下民間資源正位集團相關的新聞稿說在年底這個跟日本幼必達合資一樣要蓋一個算力中心前兩天黃仁勳來之後高雄積極爭取鴻海揮打要不要去高雄建制算力中心"},{"start":245.618,"end":259.814,"text":"主委有沒有發現民間的力量公部門的力量大家都要投資算力中心我當然現在不會烏鴉嘴的說有沒有可能有一天算力中心變文字館我不知道可是我擔心的是一旦算力及國力"},{"start":260.595,"end":281.291,"text":"那我們如何我們公部門政府資源如何看待算力及國力這件事情到底是國科會來主導還是經濟部還是數法部我們來看一下目前我很好奇問國科會你們有沒有認真盤點過往下後續開始規劃有哪些單位有多少單位他們需要算力而這些算力又會被放在哪些層面是產業開發"},{"start":283.072,"end":283.112,"text":"﹚培瑜"},{"start":313.873,"end":339.094,"text":"教育部也會參與他進來說找我找我我也需要算力目前我們都只有想到這些那有沒有其他部會需要算力目前國科會的角度跟想法走到哪裡我們國科會現在在統籌科技預算的編列所以我們會以整體政府部門投資算力來計算所以國科會要負責的是政府投資建置的算力中心是是是我們會引導民間投資"},{"start":342.056,"end":363.954,"text":"好,引導民間投資可是看起來民間投資如果補助是來自經濟部嘛像我剛剛說的那個鴻海前一個台北灣經濟部就補助了百分之多少的一個比例的金額去投資回答蓋那個台北灣那個算力中心那如果經濟部負責投資新建廠跟相關的補助那國科會如何引導那如果國科會如何協助學術端"},{"start":364.694,"end":364.934,"text":"委員講得非常的好"},{"start":387.532,"end":411.217,"text":"國科會一定要結合教育部因為國科會跟教育部是面對我們全國的大學的人力所以在研發在應用發展如果沒有人力你建再多的超級電腦資料中心都沒有用一定要有人力去應用這樣才會展現出國力出來這個我把它定位學術研究的發展學術研究還有應用研究都要做"},{"start":411.357,"end":416.238,"text":"學術研究與應用研究在學術界做出來的成果一定要結合到產業,還有辦法落地所以我們會資助經濟部編列相關預算來協助產業能夠接受這些技術把應用把它拓展到各行各業"},{"start":440.424,"end":465.15,"text":"聽起來主委您非常有概念也就是您的角色必須要主動發起跨部會的討論對不對好太好了我聽到這個承諾我們辦公室會持續追蹤因為算力這件事情它真的不能就只是放著或是告訴我們買了多少晶片用了多少電我覺得國人最後更關注或者是可能會產生相對剝奪感就是算力這件事情所以我辦公室積極的建議未來針對算力的需求國科會必須要主動盤點剛剛主委您也說了可是盤點必須要系統化科學化的方法"},{"start":469.791,"end":489.116,"text":"還有在不同的產業不同的學術研究不同的產業應用研究最後一個我要先提醒目前台灣由公部門投資興建的算力中心相關的應用是不是可以優先滿足台灣國內學術研究跟產業發展為主而不要有變相補貼業者轉賣獲取利益剛剛主委你說了你會跟經濟部跨部會討論這個部分我要拜託主委先行幫忙注意這件事情"},{"start":497.398,"end":514.91,"text":"我非常同意委員 我會努力來做這件事好 那我們辦公室會持續追蹤那剛剛洪孟凱委員有一件事情說一個禮拜你說太趕目前這個相關的規劃跟研議我說一個月 時間上是可行的嗎你看一下頭影片 我寫很多事情齁好 這個要兩個月好 沒問題"},{"start":516.941,"end":534.717,"text":"今天我要協調各部會提出具體方案兩個月後會宣布所以我們幾乎可以認識一件很重要的事情就是在剛剛討論完之後就是算力這件事情不管是學術研究相關盤點後續的規劃您會協同速發部、教育部、經濟部跟其他相關部會由您國科會來開啟主動相關討論對嗎?"},{"start":537.579,"end":562.315,"text":"對好謝謝主委謝謝你勇於認識那我們來看一個卓院長說了要以臺灣文化為基底做臺灣自己的語言模型這件事情我們完全認同在多年前臺灣有非常多專家學者也已經提出這個建議目前我們在國科會你們的TIDE模型裡面看到你們用了這些資料合作單位有公部門的也有私部門的像金周刊是私部門公部門很多我不再贅述還有這麼多那我要問一下"},{"start":563.861,"end":585.241,"text":"還有很多所謂民間資源主委你有沒有看過這個在北港武德宮財神開祭祖廟他們買了一台人工智慧機器你有沒有看過這個新聞我跟你說他們買來做什麼有人就問說以後是要問神還是要問AI他說沒有啦我們要拿來解經還要解卵文那意思就是說有很多民間衣錦委員笑了這樣"},{"start":586.022,"end":607.262,"text":"解禁就是他們有讀那個吳德公有推廣一個叫財神經吳德真經讀起來很能懂他們讓AI去幫忙翻譯解釋給一般人聽還有那個卵文大家知道什麼是卵文他說一般人寫一寫一般人看不懂他們很多師兄師姐解釋花很多力氣他們發現導入AI解讀很有幫助這個是非常台灣在地的文化"},{"start":608.524,"end":634.867,"text":"如果我們要發展台灣自己具有在地文化人文關懷精神那這個只是我舉一個例子我沒有真的要叫主委去做這件事情因為您剛剛的這個網頁上放了這些很正式的很官方的資料這個大家完全都可以理解可是我必須要一個更民間的文化來跟主委分享我們如何在台灣這個TED模型當中持續引入台灣本地的關懷跟本地的文化這件事情您是否認同認同"},{"start":636.288,"end":639.091,"text":"這只是舉例,大家不要急著去找這個我們來看一下目前這個TED模型你們的訓練因為訓練有分PRE-CHAN然後SFT DATA還有另外一個是資料合作單位你們目前我看起來沒有策展概念看起來就是公務門可以撈的先撈過來"},{"start":656.308,"end":679.668,"text":"合作單位可以談的先談過來可是這些資料的用法它到底是在pre-trend階段來用還是SFT階段來用我覺得主委我不知道目前您的幕僚嗎跟你報告目前這些資料的使用還有如果在你們國科會的報告裡面你們提到要進入更專門領域的語言模型對嗎也就是例如說法律經濟或者是教育學"},{"start":680.128,"end":705.93,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":706.092,"end":728.122,"text":"目前的狀況是因為我們第一年是我們要先把沒有那個版權爭議的我們都先抓過來先抓過來對然後維護隱私權等等不能侵犯是這些資料我們先做但是未來我們接下來會進入推廣的階段是推廣階段我們就會廣泛的在各行各業各個應用領域我們會有更多的訓練資料就會進來"},{"start":729.543,"end":757.12,"text":"做各個各別的不同的專業用途所以委員講的是非常對這個會非常非常花時間而且也很需要專業的人力來協助所以我才會寫SFT Data這件事情我相信主委你一定非常清楚所以我積極的建議目前在選定資料提供的合作單位拜託有更全面的規劃不管是專業性的或是通用性的甚至在國科會的報告裡面你們自己提到還要做多模態AI這件事情它非常非常持資料量對嗎"},{"start":758.041,"end":781.853,"text":"好那這件事情我們如何採用本地的資料有效迅速而且可信度高這件事情我相信是重要還有相關的授權法規但聽起來主委您已經知道了相關智慧產權的授權相關的權益還有跟各個專業領域合作因為國科會絕對可以找到非常多專業的學術單位積極的願意提供資料為進我們的目前這個台灣Data這個模型當中對嗎"},{"start":783.433,"end":800.906,"text":"但是必須要積極的規劃而不是給資料採集小組他們只是隨機的去做最後拜託資料品質的確保這件事情我們目前有沒有投入資源去規劃有資料品質我們非常注重我們不會用假資料那相關的資源跟規劃是什麼如何再一次確保那個資料品質是透過瑞格嗎還是"},{"start":805.982,"end":806.843,"text":"謝謝主委 謝謝主席不好意思超時 謝謝"}]}}}}