{"id":153549,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153549","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/18e54f584c581c985399ec98c938fb147e99b63b7a11dbca031d9cd4fff3a3cdac45883047b097645ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王定宇","委員發言時間":"09:40:07 - 09:51:12","影片長度":"00:11:05","會議時間":"2024-06-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第24次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會主任委員嚴德發報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-05","start_time":"2024-06-05T09:40:07+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-05T09:51:12+08:00","duration":665,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第24次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":24,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-24"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":172,"blocks":[["王委員定宇：（9時40分）謝謝主席。麻煩請嚴主委。"],["主席：請嚴主委。"],["嚴主任委員德發：召委好。"],["王委員定宇：主委好。嚴主委，今天是你第一次以退輔會主委的身分來到我們301會議室，但這裡你不陌生，我們在這邊共事大概有三、四年的時間，歡迎你來。今天我就一些延續性的政策問題向主委請教，相關業管單位如果需要補充的就自己上來，我就不另外請了。","本席在4月29日提了一個臨時提案，當時這個臨時提案是基於賴清德總統補助私校學生學費每年3萬5,000元的基礎下，所以財務結構已經改變，有新的變數。原本退役人員的子女教育補助費只補助到中校，因為擴大，也就是賴清德總統從選舉到真正執行，擴大了對就讀私立學校的所有孩子都補助3萬5,000元，所以回來審視針對上校子女跟中校子女的差額，就有3萬5,000的基礎，這樣距離就沒那麼遠。在這個基礎下，財務的結構改變了，所以我們在4月29日提出臨時提案，也感謝本會同仁、不分黨派的委員都參與連署，我們建議提升到上校以下，目前退輔會處理的進度是不是請主委報告一下？"],["嚴主任委員德發：跟召委報告，有關恢復上校階以上領俸人員子女補助費，這是我們退輔會一直以來積極爭取的。從107年開始就希望能夠恢復，因為上校的退伍年齡大概在五十歲上下，子女大概都在讀大學，所要擔負的生活負擔很重，所以我們也希望能夠恢復。"],["王委員定宇：目前你們的進度，我看你們的報告有寫……"],["嚴主任委員德發：目前我們的進度，我們已經在5月6日呈文到行政院，建議恢復該補助。目前已經建議到行政院了。"],["王委員定宇：這有很多理由，我剛剛講了，一個是財務結構，因為新的賴清德政府已經把就讀私立學校的子女教育補助費補助到3萬5,000了，這是財務的理由；一個是實況的理由，我們都瞭解退伍軍人在中校跟上校之間，退休給予差異其實沒那麼大。但當時行政命令的這條線畫在那裡，我們也認為有可以再討論的地方，本席樂見這件事情往正面的方向去處理。我們也看到你們5月6日發了公文到行政院，但行政院從財主、人事到退輔會，你們是一體的，叫行政部門，我們也希望行政部門能夠有一致的態度。至於怎麼處理這件事情？從財務上來看，我剛才已經講了，經過精算，因為私立學校學生3萬5,000元的補助已經有了，所以把上校子女納入教育補助費的差額，大概的預算需求金額為5,105萬4,000元，這是財務的部分。在作法上，也就是法律上該怎麼處理？有人認為應該修法處理，本席對任何方法都尊重，但本席要提醒，增加預算的預算案或其他方式的提案、修法案等等，要求行政部門做增加支出之提議，如果行政部門──我指的是行政院整體，是不同意的、認為窒礙難行的，這可能會違反憲法第七十條及大法官釋字第391號解釋。所以對於一件我們有共識的事情，我們應該尋求比較適當的方式來處理，而不是陷入政黨競爭、政黨彼此間的立場之爭，甚至陷入了違憲的疑慮。所以修法有前提，很多人說以前也修法，但必須是行政部門同意，也就是行政權同意，並與立法權經過充分溝通，如此就沒有跟憲法第七十條與釋字第391號解釋有所扞格。當然，這還是要大法官來解釋有沒有違憲，我只是說程序上可能有這樣的情形。至於事實上，如果要把上校子女列入教育補助費的話，我們看一下當年的文，看當年是怎麼處理的。","當年退輔會有「支領退休俸贍養金或生活補助費人員子女教育補助費發給作業要點」，這其實是行政命令，所以對本席在4月29日的提案，若行政院與退輔會認為可行，事實上就把作業要點做修正就可以執行了，不需要修法。所以有幾種不同的作法，而我建議退輔會儘速跟行政院、跟人長、跟財主單位溝通好，如果不能做，也明確表達窒礙難行之處在哪裡。之所以用臨時提案，其實就是建請，讓你們好好去研議，而不是用立法權去強迫行政機關一定要花什麼錢，那其實有憲政上的扞格。如果認為可行，我們也希望儘速，因為下學期從8月1日開始，所以要儘速在8月1日以前透過作業要點、行政命令的處理，讓上校子女可以納入補助。我這樣建議不曉得主委有什麼想法？"],["嚴主任委員德發：謝謝召委指導，我們照召委的指導來進行，儘速跟行政院協調。"],["王委員定宇：我們希望儘快，不管是卓院長那邊或人長、財主單位那邊，我們希望在未來一、兩個禮拜內可以看到往比較好的方向去發展。","接下來要請教主委，你看一下這是退輔會所屬醫院護理人員，以全國護理人員的離職率平均值來說，2021年、2022年大概都在10%上下、大概十個百分點上下。後來發現2022年高榮有比較高一點，上面寫實質的、實際的離職率是8.9%，到2023年是10.6%等等，但是全國平均率還沒有算出來。我現在請教有關全國缺護理人員這問題，今天現場站了一排院長，我也沒有想到會有那麼多人出來。不然北榮院長留下來當代表就好，其他先請回。我對其他的院長一樣尊重，只是不用那麼多人上來。","這問題其實是醫界共通的問題，也就是護理師離職率過高，人力不足，甚至於在其他的醫院體系，像臺南有一間醫院，雖然醫生夠，但護理師不夠，以致整個樓層的病房都關掉，等到招募到足夠的護理師再說。因為榮民醫院對照顧榮民、榮眷還有一般大眾來說其實很重要，也是長照各方面的指標，不知道就醫處還是院長或主委，對於護理人員缺少這件事，你們現在有什麼樣的因應的方式好提高留任或增加聘任人員？請回答。"],["嚴主任委員德發：跟召委報告，榮總護理人員的離職率平均值並沒有高於全國，目前第四季的離職率只有2.3%，誠如這張表所顯示的。至於剛剛召委提到高榮護理人員的離職率，據我瞭解，主要原因在於屏東榮總。屏東榮總成立之後……"],["王委員定宇：高榮……這裡面唯一的離差數據其實是高榮？我沒有留高榮的院長，所以主委幫他講一下。也就是高榮的離職率特別高，是因為有人力撥到屏東去？"],["嚴主任委員德發：對，撥到屏榮。"],["王委員定宇：可是就算撥走了，那麼高榮本身的職缺是移走了，還是仍有職缺在那裡等待補充？"],["張處長仁義：沒有。後續就是因為成立屏榮，所以有一部分……"],["王委員定宇：職缺分出去了？"],["張處長仁義：對，但後續會再補充。"],["王委員定宇：所以職缺還是在高榮？"],["張處長仁義：對，還是在高榮。"],["王委員定宇：所以屏榮是新增的？開缺是新的？"],["張處長仁義：對。"],["王委員定宇：所以高榮就變成人力短缺？"],["張處長仁義：對，所以會持續再招募新的人員進來。"],["王委員定宇：陳院長可以先請回，我請教高榮院長。這有沒有影響他們的業務？護理師、阿長對醫院的業務很重要，現在把人力從高榮分出，而屏榮是新的職缺，為了成立這家新的醫院，把人先分出去。現在高榮護理師不足，有沒有影響你們的業務？"],["陳院長金順：謝謝召委的關心，目前沒有影響我們醫療業務。"],["王委員定宇：那就不用補了，把缺去掉就好了。"],["陳院長金順：沒有，我們原來的職缺大概……全院……"],["王委員定宇：你現在告訴我沒有影響業務，但你所服務的群、那個base不變，然後你把人力撥到屏榮去了，你這邊的出缺不管是8.9%或18.3%，完全沒有影響到業務？這樣我建議退輔會主委，這些缺都不用補了，遇缺不補。"],["陳院長金順：報告召委，我們從109年就開始培訓人員，從 109年到110年總共培訓了大概三百多位的人員……"],["王委員定宇：應該有影響吧？如果沒有影響，幹嘛培訓人員？"],["陳院長金順：培訓人員的目的是要轉到屏榮，所以在屏榮開幕的時候……"],["王委員定宇：屏榮的人要收回來？"],["陳院長金順：對，屏榮開幕的時候我們大概有344位……"],["王委員定宇：我想要瞭解，缺了8.9%或缺了18%，這些人去屏榮支援，我知道。"],["陳院長金順：是。"],["王委員定宇：你現在訓練的人要回到高榮或到屏榮就像撞球一樣，一個補一個。"],["陳院長金順：對。"],["王委員定宇：你剛才告訴我說，你們現在缺了八點多，完全不影響高榮的業務，那你何必補人呢？"],["陳院長金順：持續還是要補人，一定會影響，但是原則上我們床位數的話……"],["王委員定宇：院長，我不為難你了，從不會影響到現在一定會影響，我如果接下來問你影響哪裡，你要怎麼回答？"],["陳院長金順：是，謝謝召委。"],["王委員定宇：有影響，因為護理人員、醫療人員其實有他的辛苦，這些辛苦、過勞會導致他有再高的報酬，他走了就不回來，不要把人操到留不住，軍中也一樣，我們應該是在適當工作的loading，然後就要開始讓人力能夠補充上來，人不是機器，所以我希望各位院長，人力不足導致業務上的困難或者我帶的所屬工作過重，要勇於說出來，將來年底預算會期的時候，你要增加預算才有個理由嘛！軍人或軍醫的習慣都打包票，絕對沒問題，你那個沒問題會導致困難啦！所以這部分我們要再繼續溝通，謝謝。"],["陳院長金順：謝謝。"],["嚴主任委員德發：謝謝召委。"],["主席：謝謝王定宇召委。","接著我們邀請的是林楚茵委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":198,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-24","speakers":["王定宇","羅美玲","沈伯洋","林楚茵","黃仁","陳冠廷","馬文君","徐巧芯","鄭天財Sra 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\"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 638.971, \"end\": 639.351, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"充\", \"start\": 639.351, \"end\": 639.531, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 639.531, \"end\": 639.551, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"召\", \"start\": 640.572, \"end\": 640.692, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 640.692, \"end\": 640.712, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,615 --> 00:00:28,298\n好謝謝主席麻煩嚴主委嚴主委莊委好嚴主委今天是你第一次以退輔會主委的身份來到我們301但這裡你不陌生我們在這邊共事大概有三四年的時間歡迎你來那今天我就一些延續性的政策問題向主委請教相關的業管單位如果需要補充的就自己上來我就不另外請了\n\n2\n00:00:29,379 --> 00:00:49,994\n在4月29號本席做了一個臨時提案當時這個臨時提案的基礎是在於賴清德總統他補助私校學費每年三萬五千元的基礎所以財務結構已經改變有新的變數那原本我們的退役人員子女的教育補助費只補助到中校\n\n3\n00:00:51,055 --> 00:01:08,335\n那因為擴大也就是賴清德總統從選舉到真正執行擴大了私立學校所有的孩子都能夠補助到三萬五千元所以回來省市我們上校子女跟中校子女的差額就有一個三萬五的基礎距離就沒那麼遠\n\n4\n00:01:09,176 --> 00:01:30,723\n所以在這個基礎下呢財務的結構改變所以當時我們在4月29號吧做了一個臨時提案當時臨時提案也感謝本會的同仁不分黨派的委員都參與連署那這個事情目前我們是建議提升到上校以下目前退府會處理的進度\n\n5\n00:01:32,443 --> 00:01:32,703\n委員會主席\n\n6\n00:02:05,306 --> 00:02:17,358\n目前我們的進度是已經在5月6號我們成文到行政院建議恢復該補助已經建議到行政院\n\n7\n00:02:19,793 --> 00:02:34,819\n很多個理由啦我剛才講第一個財務結構因為新的賴清德政府已經把私立學校的子女補助到3萬5了嘛這是財務的理由一個實況的理由我們都了解退伍軍人在中校跟上校之間退休給予差異其實沒那麼大\n\n8\n00:02:35,399 --> 00:03:01,141\n所以當時這個行政命令這條線劃在那裡我們也認為有可以再討論的地方那本席是樂見這件事情往正面的方向去處理那我們也看到你們5月6號發了公文到行政院但行政院財主人事到退副委員你們是一體的你們叫行政部門我們也希望行政部門能夠有一致的態度那怎麼處理這件事情我們現在就從財務上來看我剛已經講了\n\n9\n00:03:04,163 --> 00:03:24,098\n經過精算因為私立學校三萬五千元的補助已經有了所以那個差額會讓上校子女納入教育補助費的話大概金額是在五千一百零五萬四千元的預算需求這是財務的部分在做法上也就是法律上該怎麼處理\n\n10\n00:03:26,376 --> 00:03:44,171\n有人認為說應該用提修法來處理本席認為任何方法我都尊重但本席要提醒在增加預算的預算案或者其他方式的提案修法案等等要求行政部門做增加支出之提議\n\n11\n00:03:45,612 --> 00:04:10,242\n如果行政部門我指的是行政院整體是不同意的認為至愛難行的這可能會違反憲法70條跟大法官釋憲391條所以一件我們有共識的事情我們應該尋求比較適當的方式來做而不是陷入政黨的競爭啦政黨的彼此之間的立場啦甚至於陷入了憲法上\n\n12\n00:04:10,902 --> 00:04:36,513\n可能有違憲的疑慮所以修法有一個前提以前什麼也修法那必須是行政部門同意也就是行政權同意跟立法權有經過充分的溝通那就沒有跟憲法第70條跟釋憲文391條有所焊隔那當然還是要大法官來解釋有沒有違憲我只是說那個程序上可能有這樣子的一個情形\n\n13\n00:04:37,213 --> 00:05:03,355\n那事實上呢如果要增加上校的子女列入我們教育補助費的話我們看一下文號當年怎麼處理的當年退輔會修正把那個叫退休這個資歷退休奉善養金或生活補助費的人員子女教育補助費他有一個叫做發給作業要點他其實行政命令所以如果本席在429這個提案\n\n14\n00:05:05,256 --> 00:05:21,958\n行政院跟推幅會認為可行事實上你們就把作業要點做修正就可以執行了不用用到修法所以有幾種不同的做法所以我會建議推幅會競速跟行政院跟人長跟財主單位溝通好\n\n15\n00:05:22,679 --> 00:05:52,497\n如果不能做也明確表達至愛難行之處在哪裡我們用臨時提案其實就是建請讓你們好好去研議而不是用我們的立法權去強迫行政機關一定要花什麼錢那個其實有憲政上的漢格那如果認為可行我們也希望禁訴因為下學期8月1號開始能夠禁訴8月1號以前透過作業要點行政命令的處理呢讓上校子女可以納入我這樣建議我不曉得我們主委有什麼想法\n\n16\n00:05:52,517 --> 00:06:14,453\n主委謝謝召委指導我們照召委的指導來進行我們盡速跟行政院去協調那希望我們盡快啦卓院長那邊或者是相關人長採組單位我們希望在未來這一兩個禮拜可以看到比較好的這個方向的發展那我接下來要請教主委你看一下我們的退服會所屬醫院護理人員\n\n17\n00:06:17,506 --> 00:06:37,486\n在全國護理人員的離職率平均數是大概2021年2022年都在10%上下大概10個百分點上下何況就發現這個2022年高榮有比較高一點他上面寫一個實質的實際離職率是8.9\n\n18\n00:06:40,595 --> 00:06:57,167\n那後來到2023年是10.6等等但是全國平均還沒有算出來我現在請教就是說全國缺護理人員我們現在站了一排的院長我現在沒有想到說那麼多人出來要不然我們那個北榮院長留下來當代表就好了其他先請回\n\n19\n00:06:59,409 --> 00:07:21,854\n那個其他的院長我一樣尊重我認為不用那麼多人上來這個問題其實是醫界共通的問題護理師離職率過高人力不足甚至於在其他的醫院體系像我們台南的有一間醫院還因為醫生夠但護理師不夠把整個樓層的病房關掉要等招募足夠的護理師我不知道主委對於我們因為我們的\n\n20\n00:07:23,934 --> 00:07:24,034\n請回答\n\n21\n00:07:44,253 --> 00:08:04,330\n跟昭偉報告我們榮總的護理人員離職率我們的平均值是並沒有高於全國那目前第4屆我們的離職率也只有2.3成為這張表裡面所顯示的那剛剛昭偉所提到的高榮護理人員他的離職率據我的了解主要是屏東榮總屏東榮總成立之後\n\n22\n00:08:07,232 --> 00:08:11,217\n高榮的離職率特別要是因為有人力撥到屏隆去撥走了高榮本身那些職缺是移走了還是還有職缺在那裡要等待補充\n\n23\n00:08:26,112 --> 00:08:43,924\n沒有,後續的話就是因為他成立屏隆所以他有一部分的人直缺分出去了對,但是後續他會再補充所以他那個直缺還是在高隆對,還是在高隆所以屏隆是新增的開缺是新的對所以現在高隆就變成人力短缺嘛對,他就是持續會再招募新的人員進來\n\n24\n00:08:45,044 --> 00:09:08,966\n陳院長你可以先請回我請高榮院長來這個有沒有影響他們的業務其實護理師阿長這個對醫院的業務很重要你現在把他人力分到高榮可是高榮本來是新的職缺為了成立這新的醫院把人先分出去高榮現在護理師不足有沒有影響你們的業務謝謝各位的關心目前是沒有影響我們醫療業務那我們就不用補了把缺去掉就好了\n\n25\n00:09:10,236 --> 00:09:17,591\n沒有,原則上我們原來職缺的話大概群院啦你現在告訴我沒有影響業務嘛因為你的服務的群\n\n26\n00:09:18,786 --> 00:09:42,424\n那個base不變嘛對然後你把人力撥到屏隆去了你這邊出缺不管是8.9或18.3完全沒有影響業務那我會建議退輔會主委這些缺就不用補啦預缺不補啊不好意思在109年開始的話我們就開始培訓人員啦那開始109年到110年總共培訓了大概300多位的人員應該有影響吧你講沒有影響幹嘛培訓人員\n\n27\n00:09:43,304 --> 00:10:07,454\n培訓人員的目的是要把他轉到那個屏隆所以在屏隆開幕的時候我們大概有344位我在想要了解說缺了8.9或缺了18%這些人去屏隆支援我知道嘛你現在訓練的人要回到高融或去到屏隆都是就像撞球一樣嘛一個補一個嘛那你該告訴我說你們現在缺了8點多完全不影響高融的業務那你何必補人勒\n\n28\n00:10:08,434 --> 00:10:17,404\n持續還是要補人?因為一定會影響但是我們原則上我們傳威數的話院長我不為難你啦從不會影響到現在一定會影響我如果接下來問你影響哪裡你要怎麼回答?\n\n29\n00:10:20,575 --> 00:10:39,551\n有影響因為護理人員醫療人員其實有他的辛苦這些辛苦過勞會導致他你再高的報酬他走就不回來不要把人抄到留不住軍中也一樣我們應該是在適當的工作的loading然後就要開始讓人力能夠補充上來\n\n30\n00:10:40,572 --> 00:10:40,712\n謝謝,謝謝召委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n615\t28298\t好謝謝主席麻煩嚴主委嚴主委莊委好嚴主委今天是你第一次以退輔會主委的身份來到我們301但這裡你不陌生我們在這邊共事大概有三四年的時間歡迎你來那今天我就一些延續性的政策問題向主委請教相關的業管單位如果需要補充的就自己上來我就不另外請了\n29379\t49994\t在4月29號本席做了一個臨時提案當時這個臨時提案的基礎是在於賴清德總統他補助私校學費每年三萬五千元的基礎所以財務結構已經改變有新的變數那原本我們的退役人員子女的教育補助費只補助到中校\n51055\t68335\t那因為擴大也就是賴清德總統從選舉到真正執行擴大了私立學校所有的孩子都能夠補助到三萬五千元所以回來省市我們上校子女跟中校子女的差額就有一個三萬五的基礎距離就沒那麼遠\n69176\t90723\t所以在這個基礎下呢財務的結構改變所以當時我們在4月29號吧做了一個臨時提案當時臨時提案也感謝本會的同仁不分黨派的委員都參與連署那這個事情目前我們是建議提升到上校以下目前退府會處理的進度\n92443\t92703\t委員會主席\n125306\t137358\t目前我們的進度是已經在5月6號我們成文到行政院建議恢復該補助已經建議到行政院\n139793\t154819\t很多個理由啦我剛才講第一個財務結構因為新的賴清德政府已經把私立學校的子女補助到3萬5了嘛這是財務的理由一個實況的理由我們都了解退伍軍人在中校跟上校之間退休給予差異其實沒那麼大\n155399\t181141\t所以當時這個行政命令這條線劃在那裡我們也認為有可以再討論的地方那本席是樂見這件事情往正面的方向去處理那我們也看到你們5月6號發了公文到行政院但行政院財主人事到退副委員你們是一體的你們叫行政部門我們也希望行政部門能夠有一致的態度那怎麼處理這件事情我們現在就從財務上來看我剛已經講了\n184163\t204098\t經過精算因為私立學校三萬五千元的補助已經有了所以那個差額會讓上校子女納入教育補助費的話大概金額是在五千一百零五萬四千元的預算需求這是財務的部分在做法上也就是法律上該怎麼處理\n206376\t224171\t有人認為說應該用提修法來處理本席認為任何方法我都尊重但本席要提醒在增加預算的預算案或者其他方式的提案修法案等等要求行政部門做增加支出之提議\n225612\t250242\t如果行政部門我指的是行政院整體是不同意的認為至愛難行的這可能會違反憲法70條跟大法官釋憲391條所以一件我們有共識的事情我們應該尋求比較適當的方式來做而不是陷入政黨的競爭啦政黨的彼此之間的立場啦甚至於陷入了憲法上\n250902\t276513\t可能有違憲的疑慮所以修法有一個前提以前什麼也修法那必須是行政部門同意也就是行政權同意跟立法權有經過充分的溝通那就沒有跟憲法第70條跟釋憲文391條有所焊隔那當然還是要大法官來解釋有沒有違憲我只是說那個程序上可能有這樣子的一個情形\n277213\t303355\t那事實上呢如果要增加上校的子女列入我們教育補助費的話我們看一下文號當年怎麼處理的當年退輔會修正把那個叫退休這個資歷退休奉善養金或生活補助費的人員子女教育補助費他有一個叫做發給作業要點他其實行政命令所以如果本席在429這個提案\n305256\t321958\t行政院跟推幅會認為可行事實上你們就把作業要點做修正就可以執行了不用用到修法所以有幾種不同的做法所以我會建議推幅會競速跟行政院跟人長跟財主單位溝通好\n322679\t352497\t如果不能做也明確表達至愛難行之處在哪裡我們用臨時提案其實就是建請讓你們好好去研議而不是用我們的立法權去強迫行政機關一定要花什麼錢那個其實有憲政上的漢格那如果認為可行我們也希望禁訴因為下學期8月1號開始能夠禁訴8月1號以前透過作業要點行政命令的處理呢讓上校子女可以納入我這樣建議我不曉得我們主委有什麼想法\n352517\t374453\t主委謝謝召委指導我們照召委的指導來進行我們盡速跟行政院去協調那希望我們盡快啦卓院長那邊或者是相關人長採組單位我們希望在未來這一兩個禮拜可以看到比較好的這個方向的發展那我接下來要請教主委你看一下我們的退服會所屬醫院護理人員\n377506\t397486\t在全國護理人員的離職率平均數是大概2021年2022年都在10%上下大概10個百分點上下 何況就發現這個2022年高榮有比較高一點他上面寫一個實質的實際離職率是8.9\n400595\t417167\t那後來到2023年是10.6等等但是全國平均還沒有算出來我現在請教就是說全國缺護理人員我們現在站了一排的院長我現在沒有想到說那麼多人出來要不然我們那個北榮院長留下來當代表就好了其他先請回\n419409\t441854\t那個其他的院長我一樣尊重我認為不用那麼多人上來這個問題其實是醫界共通的問題護理師離職率過高人力不足甚至於在其他的醫院體系像我們台南的有一間醫院還因為醫生夠但護理師不夠把整個樓層的病房關掉要等招募足夠的護理師我不知道主委對於我們因為我們的\n443934\t444034\t請回答\n464253\t484330\t跟昭偉報告我們榮總的護理人員離職率我們的平均值是並沒有高於全國那目前第4屆我們的離職率也只有2.3成為這張表裡面所顯示的那剛剛昭偉所提到的高榮護理人員他的離職率據我的了解主要是屏東榮總屏東榮總成立之後\n487232\t491217\t高榮的離職率特別要是因為有人力撥到屏隆去撥走了高榮本身那些職缺是移走了還是還有職缺在那裡要等待補充\n506112\t523924\t沒有,後續的話就是因為他成立屏隆所以他有一部分的人直缺分出去了對,但是後續他會再補充所以他那個直缺還是在高隆對,還是在高隆所以屏隆是新增的開缺是新的對所以現在高隆就變成人力短缺嘛對,他就是持續會再招募新的人員進來\n525044\t548966\t陳院長你可以先請回我請高榮院長來這個有沒有影響他們的業務其實護理師阿長這個對醫院的業務很重要你現在把他人力分到高榮可是高榮本來是新的職缺為了成立這新的醫院把人先分出去高榮現在護理師不足有沒有影響你們的業務謝謝各位的關心目前是沒有影響我們醫療業務那我們就不用補了把缺去掉就好了\n550236\t557591\t沒有,原則上我們原來職缺的話大概群院啦你現在告訴我沒有影響業務嘛因為你的服務的群\n558786\t582424\t那個base不變嘛對然後你把人力撥到屏隆去了你這邊出缺不管是8.9或18.3完全沒有影響業務那我會建議退輔會主委這些缺就不用補啦預缺不補啊不好意思在109年開始的話我們就開始培訓人員啦那開始109年到110年總共培訓了大概300多位的人員應該有影響吧你講沒有影響幹嘛培訓人員\n583304\t607454\t培訓人員的目的是要把他轉到那個屏隆所以在屏隆開幕的時候我們大概有344位我在想要了解說缺了8.9或缺了18%這些人去屏隆支援我知道嘛你現在訓練的人要回到高融或去到屏隆都是就像撞球一樣嘛一個補一個嘛那你該告訴我說你們現在缺了8點多完全不影響高融的業務那你何必補人勒\n608434\t617404\t持續還是要補人?因為一定會影響但是我們原則上我們傳威數的話院長我不為難你啦從不會影響到現在一定會影響我如果接下來問你影響哪裡你要怎麼回答?\n620575\t639551\t有影響因為護理人員醫療人員其實有他的辛苦這些辛苦過勞會導致他你再高的報酬他走就不回來不要把人抄到留不住軍中也一樣我們應該是在適當的工作的loading然後就要開始讓人力能夠補充上來\n640572\t640712\t謝謝,謝謝召委員\n","txt":"好謝謝主席麻煩嚴主委嚴主委莊委好嚴主委今天是你第一次以退輔會主委的身份來到我們301但這裡你不陌生我們在這邊共事大概有三四年的時間歡迎你來那今天我就一些延續性的政策問題向主委請教相關的業管單位如果需要補充的就自己上來我就不另外請了\n在4月29號本席做了一個臨時提案當時這個臨時提案的基礎是在於賴清德總統他補助私校學費每年三萬五千元的基礎所以財務結構已經改變有新的變數那原本我們的退役人員子女的教育補助費只補助到中校\n那因為擴大也就是賴清德總統從選舉到真正執行擴大了私立學校所有的孩子都能夠補助到三萬五千元所以回來省市我們上校子女跟中校子女的差額就有一個三萬五的基礎距離就沒那麼遠\n所以在這個基礎下呢財務的結構改變所以當時我們在4月29號吧做了一個臨時提案當時臨時提案也感謝本會的同仁不分黨派的委員都參與連署那這個事情目前我們是建議提升到上校以下目前退府會處理的進度\n委員會主席\n目前我們的進度是已經在5月6號我們成文到行政院建議恢復該補助已經建議到行政院\n很多個理由啦我剛才講第一個財務結構因為新的賴清德政府已經把私立學校的子女補助到3萬5了嘛這是財務的理由一個實況的理由我們都了解退伍軍人在中校跟上校之間退休給予差異其實沒那麼大\n所以當時這個行政命令這條線劃在那裡我們也認為有可以再討論的地方那本席是樂見這件事情往正面的方向去處理那我們也看到你們5月6號發了公文到行政院但行政院財主人事到退副委員你們是一體的你們叫行政部門我們也希望行政部門能夠有一致的態度那怎麼處理這件事情我們現在就從財務上來看我剛已經講了\n經過精算因為私立學校三萬五千元的補助已經有了所以那個差額會讓上校子女納入教育補助費的話大概金額是在五千一百零五萬四千元的預算需求這是財務的部分在做法上也就是法律上該怎麼處理\n有人認為說應該用提修法來處理本席認為任何方法我都尊重但本席要提醒在增加預算的預算案或者其他方式的提案修法案等等要求行政部門做增加支出之提議\n如果行政部門我指的是行政院整體是不同意的認為至愛難行的這可能會違反憲法70條跟大法官釋憲391條所以一件我們有共識的事情我們應該尋求比較適當的方式來做而不是陷入政黨的競爭啦政黨的彼此之間的立場啦甚至於陷入了憲法上\n可能有違憲的疑慮所以修法有一個前提以前什麼也修法那必須是行政部門同意也就是行政權同意跟立法權有經過充分的溝通那就沒有跟憲法第70條跟釋憲文391條有所焊隔那當然還是要大法官來解釋有沒有違憲我只是說那個程序上可能有這樣子的一個情形\n那事實上呢如果要增加上校的子女列入我們教育補助費的話我們看一下文號當年怎麼處理的當年退輔會修正把那個叫退休這個資歷退休奉善養金或生活補助費的人員子女教育補助費他有一個叫做發給作業要點他其實行政命令所以如果本席在429這個提案\n行政院跟推幅會認為可行事實上你們就把作業要點做修正就可以執行了不用用到修法所以有幾種不同的做法所以我會建議推幅會競速跟行政院跟人長跟財主單位溝通好\n如果不能做也明確表達至愛難行之處在哪裡我們用臨時提案其實就是建請讓你們好好去研議而不是用我們的立法權去強迫行政機關一定要花什麼錢那個其實有憲政上的漢格那如果認為可行我們也希望禁訴因為下學期8月1號開始能夠禁訴8月1號以前透過作業要點行政命令的處理呢讓上校子女可以納入我這樣建議我不曉得我們主委有什麼想法\n主委謝謝召委指導我們照召委的指導來進行我們盡速跟行政院去協調那希望我們盡快啦卓院長那邊或者是相關人長採組單位我們希望在未來這一兩個禮拜可以看到比較好的這個方向的發展那我接下來要請教主委你看一下我們的退服會所屬醫院護理人員\n在全國護理人員的離職率平均數是大概2021年2022年都在10%上下大概10個百分點上下 何況就發現這個2022年高榮有比較高一點他上面寫一個實質的實際離職率是8.9\n那後來到2023年是10.6等等但是全國平均還沒有算出來我現在請教就是說全國缺護理人員我們現在站了一排的院長我現在沒有想到說那麼多人出來要不然我們那個北榮院長留下來當代表就好了其他先請回\n那個其他的院長我一樣尊重我認為不用那麼多人上來這個問題其實是醫界共通的問題護理師離職率過高人力不足甚至於在其他的醫院體系像我們台南的有一間醫院還因為醫生夠但護理師不夠把整個樓層的病房關掉要等招募足夠的護理師我不知道主委對於我們因為我們的\n請回答\n跟昭偉報告我們榮總的護理人員離職率我們的平均值是並沒有高於全國那目前第4屆我們的離職率也只有2.3成為這張表裡面所顯示的那剛剛昭偉所提到的高榮護理人員他的離職率據我的了解主要是屏東榮總屏東榮總成立之後\n高榮的離職率特別要是因為有人力撥到屏隆去撥走了高榮本身那些職缺是移走了還是還有職缺在那裡要等待補充\n沒有,後續的話就是因為他成立屏隆所以他有一部分的人直缺分出去了對,但是後續他會再補充所以他那個直缺還是在高隆對,還是在高隆所以屏隆是新增的開缺是新的對所以現在高隆就變成人力短缺嘛對,他就是持續會再招募新的人員進來\n陳院長你可以先請回我請高榮院長來這個有沒有影響他們的業務其實護理師阿長這個對醫院的業務很重要你現在把他人力分到高榮可是高榮本來是新的職缺為了成立這新的醫院把人先分出去高榮現在護理師不足有沒有影響你們的業務謝謝各位的關心目前是沒有影響我們醫療業務那我們就不用補了把缺去掉就好了\n沒有,原則上我們原來職缺的話大概群院啦你現在告訴我沒有影響業務嘛因為你的服務的群\n那個base不變嘛對然後你把人力撥到屏隆去了你這邊出缺不管是8.9或18.3完全沒有影響業務那我會建議退輔會主委這些缺就不用補啦預缺不補啊不好意思在109年開始的話我們就開始培訓人員啦那開始109年到110年總共培訓了大概300多位的人員應該有影響吧你講沒有影響幹嘛培訓人員\n培訓人員的目的是要把他轉到那個屏隆所以在屏隆開幕的時候我們大概有344位我在想要了解說缺了8.9或缺了18%這些人去屏隆支援我知道嘛你現在訓練的人要回到高融或去到屏隆都是就像撞球一樣嘛一個補一個嘛那你該告訴我說你們現在缺了8點多完全不影響高融的業務那你何必補人勒\n持續還是要補人?因為一定會影響但是我們原則上我們傳威數的話院長我不為難你啦從不會影響到現在一定會影響我如果接下來問你影響哪裡你要怎麼回答?\n有影響因為護理人員醫療人員其實有他的辛苦這些辛苦過勞會導致他你再高的報酬他走就不回來不要把人抄到留不住軍中也一樣我們應該是在適當的工作的loading然後就要開始讓人力能夠補充上來\n謝謝,謝謝召委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.615 --> 00:28.298\n好謝謝主席麻煩嚴主委嚴主委莊委好嚴主委今天是你第一次以退輔會主委的身份來到我們301但這裡你不陌生我們在這邊共事大概有三四年的時間歡迎你來那今天我就一些延續性的政策問題向主委請教相關的業管單位如果需要補充的就自己上來我就不另外請了\n\n00:29.379 --> 00:49.994\n在4月29號本席做了一個臨時提案當時這個臨時提案的基礎是在於賴清德總統他補助私校學費每年三萬五千元的基礎所以財務結構已經改變有新的變數那原本我們的退役人員子女的教育補助費只補助到中校\n\n00:51.055 --> 01:08.335\n那因為擴大也就是賴清德總統從選舉到真正執行擴大了私立學校所有的孩子都能夠補助到三萬五千元所以回來省市我們上校子女跟中校子女的差額就有一個三萬五的基礎距離就沒那麼遠\n\n01:09.176 --> 01:30.723\n所以在這個基礎下呢財務的結構改變所以當時我們在4月29號吧做了一個臨時提案當時臨時提案也感謝本會的同仁不分黨派的委員都參與連署那這個事情目前我們是建議提升到上校以下目前退府會處理的進度\n\n01:32.443 --> 01:32.703\n委員會主席\n\n02:05.306 --> 02:17.358\n目前我們的進度是已經在5月6號我們成文到行政院建議恢復該補助已經建議到行政院\n\n02:19.793 --> 02:34.819\n很多個理由啦我剛才講第一個財務結構因為新的賴清德政府已經把私立學校的子女補助到3萬5了嘛這是財務的理由一個實況的理由我們都了解退伍軍人在中校跟上校之間退休給予差異其實沒那麼大\n\n02:35.399 --> 03:01.141\n所以當時這個行政命令這條線劃在那裡我們也認為有可以再討論的地方那本席是樂見這件事情往正面的方向去處理那我們也看到你們5月6號發了公文到行政院但行政院財主人事到退副委員你們是一體的你們叫行政部門我們也希望行政部門能夠有一致的態度那怎麼處理這件事情我們現在就從財務上來看我剛已經講了\n\n03:04.163 --> 03:24.098\n經過精算因為私立學校三萬五千元的補助已經有了所以那個差額會讓上校子女納入教育補助費的話大概金額是在五千一百零五萬四千元的預算需求這是財務的部分在做法上也就是法律上該怎麼處理\n\n03:26.376 --> 03:44.171\n有人認為說應該用提修法來處理本席認為任何方法我都尊重但本席要提醒在增加預算的預算案或者其他方式的提案修法案等等要求行政部門做增加支出之提議\n\n03:45.612 --> 04:10.242\n如果行政部門我指的是行政院整體是不同意的認為至愛難行的這可能會違反憲法70條跟大法官釋憲391條所以一件我們有共識的事情我們應該尋求比較適當的方式來做而不是陷入政黨的競爭啦政黨的彼此之間的立場啦甚至於陷入了憲法上\n\n04:10.902 --> 04:36.513\n可能有違憲的疑慮所以修法有一個前提以前什麼也修法那必須是行政部門同意也就是行政權同意跟立法權有經過充分的溝通那就沒有跟憲法第70條跟釋憲文391條有所焊隔那當然還是要大法官來解釋有沒有違憲我只是說那個程序上可能有這樣子的一個情形\n\n04:37.213 --> 05:03.355\n那事實上呢如果要增加上校的子女列入我們教育補助費的話我們看一下文號當年怎麼處理的當年退輔會修正把那個叫退休這個資歷退休奉善養金或生活補助費的人員子女教育補助費他有一個叫做發給作業要點他其實行政命令所以如果本席在429這個提案\n\n05:05.256 --> 05:21.958\n行政院跟推幅會認為可行事實上你們就把作業要點做修正就可以執行了不用用到修法所以有幾種不同的做法所以我會建議推幅會競速跟行政院跟人長跟財主單位溝通好\n\n05:22.679 --> 05:52.497\n如果不能做也明確表達至愛難行之處在哪裡我們用臨時提案其實就是建請讓你們好好去研議而不是用我們的立法權去強迫行政機關一定要花什麼錢那個其實有憲政上的漢格那如果認為可行我們也希望禁訴因為下學期8月1號開始能夠禁訴8月1號以前透過作業要點行政命令的處理呢讓上校子女可以納入我這樣建議我不曉得我們主委有什麼想法\n\n05:52.517 --> 06:14.453\n主委謝謝召委指導我們照召委的指導來進行我們盡速跟行政院去協調那希望我們盡快啦卓院長那邊或者是相關人長採組單位我們希望在未來這一兩個禮拜可以看到比較好的這個方向的發展那我接下來要請教主委你看一下我們的退服會所屬醫院護理人員\n\n06:17.506 --> 06:37.486\n在全國護理人員的離職率平均數是大概2021年2022年都在10%上下大概10個百分點上下何況就發現這個2022年高榮有比較高一點他上面寫一個實質的實際離職率是8.9\n\n06:40.595 --> 06:57.167\n那後來到2023年是10.6等等但是全國平均還沒有算出來我現在請教就是說全國缺護理人員我們現在站了一排的院長我現在沒有想到說那麼多人出來要不然我們那個北榮院長留下來當代表就好了其他先請回\n\n06:59.409 --> 07:21.854\n那個其他的院長我一樣尊重我認為不用那麼多人上來這個問題其實是醫界共通的問題護理師離職率過高人力不足甚至於在其他的醫院體系像我們台南的有一間醫院還因為醫生夠但護理師不夠把整個樓層的病房關掉要等招募足夠的護理師我不知道主委對於我們因為我們的\n\n07:23.934 --> 07:24.034\n請回答\n\n07:44.253 --> 08:04.330\n跟昭偉報告我們榮總的護理人員離職率我們的平均值是並沒有高於全國那目前第4屆我們的離職率也只有2.3成為這張表裡面所顯示的那剛剛昭偉所提到的高榮護理人員他的離職率據我的了解主要是屏東榮總屏東榮總成立之後\n\n08:07.232 --> 08:11.217\n高榮的離職率特別要是因為有人力撥到屏隆去撥走了高榮本身那些職缺是移走了還是還有職缺在那裡要等待補充\n\n08:26.112 --> 08:43.924\n沒有,後續的話就是因為他成立屏隆所以他有一部分的人直缺分出去了對,但是後續他會再補充所以他那個直缺還是在高隆對,還是在高隆所以屏隆是新增的開缺是新的對所以現在高隆就變成人力短缺嘛對,他就是持續會再招募新的人員進來\n\n08:45.044 --> 09:08.966\n陳院長你可以先請回我請高榮院長來這個有沒有影響他們的業務其實護理師阿長這個對醫院的業務很重要你現在把他人力分到高榮可是高榮本來是新的職缺為了成立這新的醫院把人先分出去高榮現在護理師不足有沒有影響你們的業務謝謝各位的關心目前是沒有影響我們醫療業務那我們就不用補了把缺去掉就好了\n\n09:10.236 --> 09:17.591\n沒有,原則上我們原來職缺的話大概群院啦你現在告訴我沒有影響業務嘛因為你的服務的群\n\n09:18.786 --> 09:42.424\n那個base不變嘛對然後你把人力撥到屏隆去了你這邊出缺不管是8.9或18.3完全沒有影響業務那我會建議退輔會主委這些缺就不用補啦預缺不補啊不好意思在109年開始的話我們就開始培訓人員啦那開始109年到110年總共培訓了大概300多位的人員應該有影響吧你講沒有影響幹嘛培訓人員\n\n09:43.304 --> 10:07.454\n培訓人員的目的是要把他轉到那個屏隆所以在屏隆開幕的時候我們大概有344位我在想要了解說缺了8.9或缺了18%這些人去屏隆支援我知道嘛你現在訓練的人要回到高融或去到屏隆都是就像撞球一樣嘛一個補一個嘛那你該告訴我說你們現在缺了8點多完全不影響高融的業務那你何必補人勒\n\n10:08.434 --> 10:17.404\n持續還是要補人?因為一定會影響但是我們原則上我們傳威數的話院長我不為難你啦從不會影響到現在一定會影響我如果接下來問你影響哪裡你要怎麼回答?\n\n10:20.575 --> 10:39.551\n有影響因為護理人員醫療人員其實有他的辛苦這些辛苦過勞會導致他你再高的報酬他走就不回來不要把人抄到留不住軍中也一樣我們應該是在適當的工作的loading然後就要開始讓人力能夠補充上來\n\n10:40.572 --> 10:40.712\n謝謝,謝謝召委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.615,"end":28.298,"text":"好謝謝主席麻煩嚴主委嚴主委莊委好嚴主委今天是你第一次以退輔會主委的身份來到我們301但這裡你不陌生我們在這邊共事大概有三四年的時間歡迎你來那今天我就一些延續性的政策問題向主委請教相關的業管單位如果需要補充的就自己上來我就不另外請了"},{"start":29.379,"end":49.994,"text":"在4月29號本席做了一個臨時提案當時這個臨時提案的基礎是在於賴清德總統他補助私校學費每年三萬五千元的基礎所以財務結構已經改變有新的變數那原本我們的退役人員子女的教育補助費只補助到中校"},{"start":51.055,"end":68.335,"text":"那因為擴大也就是賴清德總統從選舉到真正執行擴大了私立學校所有的孩子都能夠補助到三萬五千元所以回來省市我們上校子女跟中校子女的差額就有一個三萬五的基礎距離就沒那麼遠"},{"start":69.176,"end":90.723,"text":"所以在這個基礎下呢財務的結構改變所以當時我們在4月29號吧做了一個臨時提案當時臨時提案也感謝本會的同仁不分黨派的委員都參與連署那這個事情目前我們是建議提升到上校以下目前退府會處理的進度"},{"start":92.443,"end":92.703,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":125.306,"end":137.358,"text":"目前我們的進度是已經在5月6號我們成文到行政院建議恢復該補助已經建議到行政院"},{"start":139.793,"end":154.819,"text":"很多個理由啦我剛才講第一個財務結構因為新的賴清德政府已經把私立學校的子女補助到3萬5了嘛這是財務的理由一個實況的理由我們都了解退伍軍人在中校跟上校之間退休給予差異其實沒那麼大"},{"start":155.399,"end":181.141,"text":"所以當時這個行政命令這條線劃在那裡我們也認為有可以再討論的地方那本席是樂見這件事情往正面的方向去處理那我們也看到你們5月6號發了公文到行政院但行政院財主人事到退副委員你們是一體的你們叫行政部門我們也希望行政部門能夠有一致的態度那怎麼處理這件事情我們現在就從財務上來看我剛已經講了"},{"start":184.163,"end":204.098,"text":"經過精算因為私立學校三萬五千元的補助已經有了所以那個差額會讓上校子女納入教育補助費的話大概金額是在五千一百零五萬四千元的預算需求這是財務的部分在做法上也就是法律上該怎麼處理"},{"start":206.376,"end":224.171,"text":"有人認為說應該用提修法來處理本席認為任何方法我都尊重但本席要提醒在增加預算的預算案或者其他方式的提案修法案等等要求行政部門做增加支出之提議"},{"start":225.612,"end":250.242,"text":"如果行政部門我指的是行政院整體是不同意的認為至愛難行的這可能會違反憲法70條跟大法官釋憲391條所以一件我們有共識的事情我們應該尋求比較適當的方式來做而不是陷入政黨的競爭啦政黨的彼此之間的立場啦甚至於陷入了憲法上"},{"start":250.902,"end":276.513,"text":"可能有違憲的疑慮所以修法有一個前提以前什麼也修法那必須是行政部門同意也就是行政權同意跟立法權有經過充分的溝通那就沒有跟憲法第70條跟釋憲文391條有所焊隔那當然還是要大法官來解釋有沒有違憲我只是說那個程序上可能有這樣子的一個情形"},{"start":277.213,"end":303.355,"text":"那事實上呢如果要增加上校的子女列入我們教育補助費的話我們看一下文號當年怎麼處理的當年退輔會修正把那個叫退休這個資歷退休奉善養金或生活補助費的人員子女教育補助費他有一個叫做發給作業要點他其實行政命令所以如果本席在429這個提案"},{"start":305.256,"end":321.958,"text":"行政院跟推幅會認為可行事實上你們就把作業要點做修正就可以執行了不用用到修法所以有幾種不同的做法所以我會建議推幅會競速跟行政院跟人長跟財主單位溝通好"},{"start":322.679,"end":352.497,"text":"如果不能做也明確表達至愛難行之處在哪裡我們用臨時提案其實就是建請讓你們好好去研議而不是用我們的立法權去強迫行政機關一定要花什麼錢那個其實有憲政上的漢格那如果認為可行我們也希望禁訴因為下學期8月1號開始能夠禁訴8月1號以前透過作業要點行政命令的處理呢讓上校子女可以納入我這樣建議我不曉得我們主委有什麼想法"},{"start":352.517,"end":374.453,"text":"主委謝謝召委指導我們照召委的指導來進行我們盡速跟行政院去協調那希望我們盡快啦卓院長那邊或者是相關人長採組單位我們希望在未來這一兩個禮拜可以看到比較好的這個方向的發展那我接下來要請教主委你看一下我們的退服會所屬醫院護理人員"},{"start":377.506,"end":397.486,"text":"在全國護理人員的離職率平均數是大概2021年2022年都在10%上下大概10個百分點上下 何況就發現這個2022年高榮有比較高一點他上面寫一個實質的實際離職率是8.9"},{"start":400.595,"end":417.167,"text":"那後來到2023年是10.6等等但是全國平均還沒有算出來我現在請教就是說全國缺護理人員我們現在站了一排的院長我現在沒有想到說那麼多人出來要不然我們那個北榮院長留下來當代表就好了其他先請回"},{"start":419.409,"end":441.854,"text":"那個其他的院長我一樣尊重我認為不用那麼多人上來這個問題其實是醫界共通的問題護理師離職率過高人力不足甚至於在其他的醫院體系像我們台南的有一間醫院還因為醫生夠但護理師不夠把整個樓層的病房關掉要等招募足夠的護理師我不知道主委對於我們因為我們的"},{"start":443.934,"end":444.034,"text":"請回答"},{"start":464.253,"end":484.33,"text":"跟昭偉報告我們榮總的護理人員離職率我們的平均值是並沒有高於全國那目前第4屆我們的離職率也只有2.3成為這張表裡面所顯示的那剛剛昭偉所提到的高榮護理人員他的離職率據我的了解主要是屏東榮總屏東榮總成立之後"},{"start":487.232,"end":491.217,"text":"高榮的離職率特別要是因為有人力撥到屏隆去撥走了高榮本身那些職缺是移走了還是還有職缺在那裡要等待補充"},{"start":506.112,"end":523.924,"text":"沒有,後續的話就是因為他成立屏隆所以他有一部分的人直缺分出去了對,但是後續他會再補充所以他那個直缺還是在高隆對,還是在高隆所以屏隆是新增的開缺是新的對所以現在高隆就變成人力短缺嘛對,他就是持續會再招募新的人員進來"},{"start":525.044,"end":548.966,"text":"陳院長你可以先請回我請高榮院長來這個有沒有影響他們的業務其實護理師阿長這個對醫院的業務很重要你現在把他人力分到高榮可是高榮本來是新的職缺為了成立這新的醫院把人先分出去高榮現在護理師不足有沒有影響你們的業務謝謝各位的關心目前是沒有影響我們醫療業務那我們就不用補了把缺去掉就好了"},{"start":550.236,"end":557.591,"text":"沒有,原則上我們原來職缺的話大概群院啦你現在告訴我沒有影響業務嘛因為你的服務的群"},{"start":558.786,"end":582.424,"text":"那個base不變嘛對然後你把人力撥到屏隆去了你這邊出缺不管是8.9或18.3完全沒有影響業務那我會建議退輔會主委這些缺就不用補啦預缺不補啊不好意思在109年開始的話我們就開始培訓人員啦那開始109年到110年總共培訓了大概300多位的人員應該有影響吧你講沒有影響幹嘛培訓人員"},{"start":583.304,"end":607.454,"text":"培訓人員的目的是要把他轉到那個屏隆所以在屏隆開幕的時候我們大概有344位我在想要了解說缺了8.9或缺了18%這些人去屏隆支援我知道嘛你現在訓練的人要回到高融或去到屏隆都是就像撞球一樣嘛一個補一個嘛那你該告訴我說你們現在缺了8點多完全不影響高融的業務那你何必補人勒"},{"start":608.434,"end":617.404,"text":"持續還是要補人?因為一定會影響但是我們原則上我們傳威數的話院長我不為難你啦從不會影響到現在一定會影響我如果接下來問你影響哪裡你要怎麼回答?"},{"start":620.575,"end":639.551,"text":"有影響因為護理人員醫療人員其實有他的辛苦這些辛苦過勞會導致他你再高的報酬他走就不回來不要把人抄到留不住軍中也一樣我們應該是在適當的工作的loading然後就要開始讓人力能夠補充上來"},{"start":640.572,"end":640.712,"text":"謝謝,謝謝召委員"}]}}}}