{"id":153558,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153558","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/18e54f584c581c98fc91a3f27130c0ef05d12856443da96968f95e3d087843c2314697a4fd0cd6bb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"09:57:56 - 10:09:07","影片長度":"00:11:11","會議時間":"2024-06-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文、數位發展部列席就「人工智慧(AI)推動現況與未來方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【6月5日及6日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-05","start_time":"2024-06-05T09:57:56+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-05T10:09:07+08:00","duration":671,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-15"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":327,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（9時58分）麻煩請國科會主委，謝謝。"],["主席：有請吳主委。"],["吳主任委員誠文：委員好。"],["葉委員元之：主委好。今天我們在討論AI，這個AI旋風當然是黃仁勳引起的，不曉得國科會最近有沒有跟黃仁勳接觸，有沒有？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我本人沒有跟他接觸過。"],["葉委員元之：那國科會有嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：國科會有。"],["葉委員元之：大概是怎麼樣的接觸？談什麼議題？"],["吳主任委員誠文：國科會當然是透過黃仁勳的公司即輝達，他們在臺灣的總經理有拜訪國科會，所以我們有討論過。"],["葉委員元之：那你們討論什麼議題？"],["吳主任委員誠文：討論輝達在臺灣的投資、未來可能的發展，他們在臺灣的投資他自己有宣布了，就是目前的研發中心會再擴大，可能會捐贈部分的算力來協助臺灣的學術研究。"],["葉委員元之：那大概會在臺灣增加多少投資？因為我看那個研發中心是會超過243億嘛？那其他的投資大概多少？"],["吳主任委員誠文：他現在初步的講法是還在規劃當中，我們在討論的過程當中本來是要瞭解他要捐贈的設備規格，但是因為這個發展太快速了，所以他們現在還在衡量應該用什麼樣的規格，那個時間點也許會落在明年，還要再找適當的地點，現在有幾個地方他在考慮當中，目前狀態是這個樣子。"],["葉委員元之：對，因為我也想要問主委這個問題，他是說要在臺灣設第二座研發中心，目前我看新聞是說9個縣市都在爭取，包括我所在的新北市，也有相關的優勢，因為輝達有43個供應鏈廠商，大概有十幾家都在新北，算是最多的，當然新竹也說自己很有優勢，他有竹科嘛，在台積電附近，高雄好像也有優勢，主委，以你國科會的角度，你覺得臺灣這些縣市要爭取第二座研發中心，哪一個條件你覺得比較適合？"],["吳主任委員誠文：賴總統有提過臺灣均衡發展這件事情，所以各縣市在發展特色的產業，有足夠的基礎、有提供很好的條件，我們從國科會的角度來看，我們都會儘量來協助他們，他們的需求……"],["葉委員元之：所以你沒有特別去判定說誰比較有條件就對了？你是說如果……"],["吳主任委員誠文：目前還沒有，我們會尊重輝達的選擇，因為跟它的產業發展也有關係。"],["葉委員元之：OK，主委，其實我問這個問題另外也是想要表達一件事情，就是我們要發展AI，我們儘量跟這些比較有成就的產業合作，會事半功倍，我現在就想舉一個，我們國科會自己研發了一個所謂的生成式AI，叫TAIDE嘛？對不對？"],["吳主任委員誠文：TAIDE。"],["葉委員元之：因為主委您剛來，我不曉得您了不了解，這是花3億元做的，去年做的，當時為什麼要做我們自己本土的生成式AI呢？有兩個目的，一個目的是要保護本土文化，因為覺得現在坊間或其他產業所做的生成式AI好像會有太多簡體字，會侵害到我們本土的文化價值觀，這是其中一個目的。","第二個目的當然就是發展我們的自主人才，是這兩個目的，但是這一個花了3億元做的生成式AI其實有很多問題，首先，全世界沒有其他國家有以國家為主體發展的生成式AI，像日本也是用ChatGPT，第二，你們現在說這個生成式AI已經可以跟ChatGPT3.5相當，但ChatGPT現在已經到4o，已經有點跟不上了。","還有一個問題就是它的使用率，國科會有把它放在工程師開放的平臺讓人家下載，下載量大概是3萬，下載不代表他有用，有的只是下載來看一看，才3萬，至於你們內部的使用，國科會內部的相關單位大概才六百餘次而已，甚至連民進黨地方政府臺南市，臺南市市長黃偉哲也是民進黨籍的，他都說他要用ChatGPT生成式AI來做輔助的學習平臺，就連他都不捧場。","所以我現在的問題是國科會還需要繼續做這件事嗎？因為感覺上它的使用率、普及率也很低，然後它所謂的標準現在也不如ChatGPT，如果標準越差越大的話，大家當然要用ChatGPT，誰要回過頭來用國科會做的東西？現在已經花3億元了，接下來如果要迎頭趕上其他國家或其他企業所做的這種AI的話，你勢必要花更多的錢，所以我不曉得主委你的態度是怎樣？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們其實目標並不是跟現在通用型的這些AI的model來競爭，我們的目標其實是把既有的這些AI的model在地化，在地化的意思就是，我們應用在臺灣各行各業的時候，那個資料必須要準確，要能夠把模型再優化，所以在地的訓練讓臺灣各行各業發展的時候，可以做得更有效率，然後在運算的時候更省電，因為我們不用使用那個非常大型的通用型模型，所以我們接下來在應用的時候，我們會注重在把它擴散出去，所以目前展示的幾個項目只是一些例子而已，我們的目標倒不是要去取代原來的……"],["葉委員元之：不是取代，問題是現在使用率很低嘛！而且花了很多錢嘛！"],["吳主任委員誠文：因為我們剛剛建置完……"],["葉委員元之：接下來預計還要花多少錢做這個東西？"],["吳主任委員誠文：接下來我們的計畫……"],["葉委員元之：預計還要花多少錢做這個東西？"],["楊執行秘書佳玲：我想預算的項目我們再確認一次，大概3億左右。"],["葉委員元之：還要再花3億？希望達到什麼樣的目標？"],["楊執行秘書佳玲：我跟委員解釋一下，他們所謂的使用ChatGPT是使用雲端的，當我們需要資料是有隱私要保護的時候，我們沒有辦法上雲，我們發展TAIDE的目的，就是希望能夠協助臺灣的企業能夠保護企業他們自己的隱私，所以我們會協助各產業來發展……"],["葉委員元之：問題是現在的使用率不高嘛！"],["楊執行秘書佳玲：TAIDE發展1年……"],["葉委員元之：現在使用率不高，所以你要推廣嘛！好不好？"],["楊執行秘書佳玲：我們推廣……"],["葉委員元之：然後你要花多少錢，可不可以給我們一個效益評估報告？"],["楊執行秘書佳玲：好。"],["葉委員元之：因為我現在發現國科會很多錢真的都用得很奇怪。","我再請教另外一個問題，主委，你知不知道國科會在史丹佛大學有成立一個Taiwan Science and Technology Hub，你知道嗎？花了1億元，主委知道這個事嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我知道這個事。"],["葉委員元之：那你知道這1億元是用在什麼地方嗎？我看了你們給我的資料，非常的簡單，我只有看到你們去參加了兩場國際研討會，然後去參加了一個展覽，然後其他的費用就用在史丹佛的這個Hub辦公室以及獎學金，就花了1億元，1年就花了1億元。請問一下，這個Hub的效益是什麼？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我可以請我們科國處長來……"],["葉委員元之：我有個問題想問處長，因為我們每一次跟國科會要資料，都給得非常簡單，愛寫不寫的，就像我問這1億元用在哪裡，結果給我三行字。主委，你覺得國科會給委員資料，1億元、三行字，這樣OK嗎？"],["葉處長至誠：報告委員，這可能有誤會的地方，到時候我們再來……"],["葉委員元之：什麼叫到時候？每次都是在委員會這邊敷衍。"],["葉處長至誠：我們再進一步提供詳細資料……"],["葉委員元之：處長，我跟你請教一下，當我在要資料的時候，你人在臺灣嗎？你人在臺灣嗎？"],["葉處長至誠：報告委員，因為上一次剛好我人在矽谷，所以沒辦法……"],["葉委員元之：你人在矽谷，跟你的科長在矽谷嘛，對不對？"],["葉處長至誠：是，出席一個研討會。"],["葉委員元之：請教一下，處長跟科長在矽谷幹嘛？"],["葉處長至誠：出席一個Hoover……"],["葉委員元之：陪前任國科會主委去嘛！"],["葉處長至誠：是出席一個胡佛研究所有關研討……"],["葉委員元之：那是不是就跟史丹佛這個Hub有關？"],["葉處長至誠：是有關係。"],["葉委員元之：有關是不是？"],["葉處長至誠：是。"],["葉委員元之：今天因為時間不夠了，請你補一份完整的資料給我，到底這1億元是用在哪裡，國科會很有錢我知道，但這錢不是這樣亂花的，這1億元到底有沒有達到效益？"],["葉處長至誠：是。"],["葉委員元之：另外，這個Hub裡面也有一些獎學金對吧？獎學金一個人是7萬美金，對不對？結果這個7萬美金獎學金的學生，你是補助他到史丹佛工作，對不對？"],["葉處長至誠：做研究。"],["葉委員元之：有沒有要求他做完研究之後一定要回國服務？有沒有？"],["葉處長至誠：做完研究，我們會追蹤學員。"],["葉委員元之：會追蹤？他不回來也沒關係嘛！"],["葉處長至誠：這部分我們會追蹤。"],["葉委員元之：我們辦公室跟你要資料，到底補助獎學金的權利義務是什麼，你們不給我，你們說那個合約是學生跟史丹佛簽的，所以今天是我們把錢給學生，學生去跟史丹佛簽約，所有權利義務都由史丹佛來決定，那我們國科會是很有錢喔？我們都不能追蹤欸！我們都不能夠瞭解我們納稅人的錢到底花在哪裡欸！國科會是有這麼多錢這樣子亂用的喔？連一個效益評估都講不出來。"],["葉處長至誠：報告委員，這部分有關於……"],["葉委員元之：我也很好奇，處長你一直出國，到底效益是什麼啦？"],["葉處長至誠：有關於預算的使用……"],["葉委員元之：你們處長跟科長一天到晚出國，假國際研討會之名到底做了什麼事，你要不要一併把報告給我？"],["葉處長至誠：有關於預算的使用以及成效部分，我們會後會提供報告供委員參考。"],["葉委員元之：會後提供報告，不要會後又是幾行字，我們都拿太多次了，每次在這邊問，都說會後提供報告，結果就幾行字敷衍。","主委，因為您剛來，新人新氣象，過去我們幾個月跟國科會互動就是這樣，每次都是這樣，委員會質詢什麼東西都講不清楚，就說會後提供資料，會後提供資料就是三言兩語，然後再下一次再來委員會問。我希望……"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，至少三頁，不能三行。我們一定提供詳細資料。"],["葉委員元之：不是啦，那都是民脂民膏。主委。"],["吳主任委員誠文：同意。"],["葉委員元之：不是處長這樣大筆一揮，錢就這樣子隨便花出去了！"],["吳主任委員誠文：同意。"],["葉委員元之：好不好？給我一份完整的報告。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["葉委員元之：謝謝。"],["吳主任委員誠文：謝謝。"],["主席（陳委員培瑜代）：謝謝葉元之委員，謝謝主委。","接下來吳沛憶委員，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":206,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-15","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","萬美玲","葉元之","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","羅廷瑋","張雅琳","葛如鈞","柯志恩","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","范雲","翁曉玲","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","吳春城","李柏毅","鍾佳濱","林倩綺","牛煦庭"],"page_start":143,"meetingDate":["2024-06-05"],"gazette_id":"1135902","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135902_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文、數位發展部列席就「人工智慧 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9.569, \"end\": 9.589, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 9.589, \"end\": 9.609, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 9.609, \"end\": 9.629, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 9.629, \"end\": 9.649, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 9.649, \"end\": 9.669, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 9.669, \"end\": 9.689, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 9.689, \"end\": 9.849, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 9.849, \"end\": 9.869, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 9.869, \"end\": 9.889, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 9.889, \"end\": 9.909, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 9.909, \"end\": 9.929, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"觸\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"談\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 9.929, \"end\": 9.949, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}]}, {\"start\": 29.921, \"end\": 40.492, \"text\": \"國會當然是透過環環星的公司就是輝達他們在台灣的總經理有拜訪國科會所以我們有討論過那你們討論什麼議題討論輝達在台灣的這個投資可能未來的發展\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 29.921, \"end\": 30.021, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 30.021, \"end\": 30.161, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"透\", \"start\": 30.161, \"end\": 31.983, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"環\"}, {\"word\": \"環\"}, {\"word\": \"星\", \"start\": 31.983, \"end\": 32.143, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 32.143, \"end\": 32.263, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 32.263, \"end\": 32.523, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"司\", \"start\": 32.523, \"end\": 32.964, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 32.964, \"end\": 33.084, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 33.084, \"end\": 34.085, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"輝\"}, {\"word\": \"達\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", 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236.506, \"end\": 236.946, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 236.946, \"end\": 237.166, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 237.166, \"end\": 237.487, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 237.487, \"end\": 237.767, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"C\", \"start\": 237.767, \"end\": 237.807, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"H\", \"start\": 237.807, \"end\": 238.007, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"A\", \"start\": 238.007, \"end\": 238.067, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"P\", \"start\": 238.067, \"end\": 238.128, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"G\", \"start\": 238.128, \"end\": 238.228, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"P\", \"start\": 238.228, \"end\": 238.328, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"T\", \"start\": 238.328, \"end\": 238.528, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 238.528, \"end\": 238.548, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"當\"}]}, {\"start\": 240.461, \"end\": 262.068, \"text\": \"但CHAP GPT現在已經到4歐了啦已經有點跟不上了那還有一個問題就是它的使用率使用率呢你們國客會有把它放在工程師開放的平台讓人家下載喔大概下載的量是3萬下載不代表它有用喔有的只是下載來看一看才3萬\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 240.461, \"end\": 240.661, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"C\", \"start\": 240.661, \"end\": 240.881, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"H\", \"start\": 240.881, \"end\": 241.021, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"A\", \"start\": 241.021, \"end\": 241.281, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"P\", \"start\": 241.281, \"end\": 242.182, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"G\", \"start\": 242.182, \"end\": 242.482, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"P\", \"start\": 242.482, \"end\": 242.662, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"T\", \"start\": 242.662, \"end\": 242.822, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 242.822, \"end\": 243.002, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 243.002, \"end\": 243.182, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 243.182, \"end\": 244.462, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 255.626, \"end\": 255.826, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 255.826, \"end\": 256.106, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"載\"}, {\"word\": \"喔\", \"start\": 256.106, \"end\": 256.806, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 256.806, \"end\": 256.946, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 256.946, \"end\": 257.266, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 257.266, \"end\": 257.446, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"載\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 257.446, \"end\": 257.586, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 257.586, \"end\": 257.746, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 257.746, \"end\": 258.847, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 258.847, \"end\": 259.307, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"載\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 259.307, \"end\": 259.427, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"代\", \"start\": 259.427, \"end\": 259.547, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 259.547, \"end\": 259.667, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 259.667, \"end\": 259.787, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 259.787, \"end\": 259.947, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 259.947, \"end\": 260.127, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"喔\", \"start\": 260.127, \"end\": 260.347, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 260.347, \"end\": 260.447, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 260.447, \"end\": 260.547, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 260.547, \"end\": 260.647, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 260.647, \"end\": 260.767, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 260.767, \"end\": 261.127, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"載\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 261.127, \"end\": 261.247, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 261.247, \"end\": 261.347, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 261.347, \"end\": 262.048, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 262.048, \"end\": 262.068, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}]}, {\"start\": 263.663, \"end\": 285.459, \"text\": \"那你們內部的使用大概可能國會內部的相關單位用大概才600餘次而已那甚至於連民進黨地方政府台南市市長黃偉哲也是民進黨籍的他都說他要用CHAP GPT深層式AI來做輔助的學習平台結果連他都不捧場\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 263.663, \"end\": 263.863, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 263.863, \"end\": 264.424, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 264.424, \"end\": 264.584, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 264.584, \"end\": 264.864, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"使\", \"start\": 264.864, \"end\": 265.044, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 265.044, \"end\": 265.264, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 265.264, \"end\": 265.404, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 265.404, \"end\": 265.705, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 265.705, \"end\": 265.825, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 265.825, \"end\": 266.565, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 266.565, \"end\": 266.705, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 266.705, \"end\": 267.146, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 267.146, \"end\": 267.626, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 267.626, \"end\": 267.786, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 267.786, \"end\": 267.966, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 267.966, \"end\": 268.086, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 268.086, \"end\": 268.467, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 268.467, \"end\": 269.587, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"餘\"}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 269.587, \"end\": 269.748, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 269.748, \"end\": 269.948, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 269.948, \"end\": 270.868, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 270.868, \"end\": 271.029, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"甚\", \"start\": 271.029, \"end\": 271.249, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 271.249, \"end\": 271.449, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 271.449, \"end\": 273.11, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"連\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 273.11, \"end\": 274.351, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 274.351, \"end\": 274.491, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 274.491, \"end\": 274.691, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 274.691, \"end\": 274.911, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 274.911, \"end\": 276.012, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 276.012, \"end\": 276.152, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"南\", \"start\": 276.152, \"end\": 276.333, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 276.333, \"end\": 277.694, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 277.694, \"end\": 278.534, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"偉\"}, {\"word\": \"哲\", \"start\": 278.534, \"end\": 278.694, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 278.694, \"end\": 278.894, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 278.894, \"end\": 279.015, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 279.015, \"end\": 279.395, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"籍\", \"start\": 279.395, \"end\": 279.575, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 279.575, \"end\": 279.775, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 279.775, \"end\": 279.975, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 279.975, \"end\": 280.496, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 280.496, \"end\": 280.656, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 280.656, \"end\": 280.816, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 280.816, \"end\": 281.016, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"C\", \"start\": 281.016, \"end\": 281.056, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"H\", \"start\": 281.056, \"end\": 281.216, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"A\", \"start\": 281.216, \"end\": 281.316, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"P\", \"start\": 281.316, \"end\": 281.436, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"G\", \"start\": 281.436, \"end\": 281.577, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"P\", \"start\": 281.577, \"end\": 281.777, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"T\", \"start\": 281.777, \"end\": 281.957, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"深\", \"start\": 281.957, \"end\": 282.157, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"層\"}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 282.157, \"end\": 282.337, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"A\", \"start\": 282.337, \"end\": 282.437, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"I\", \"start\": 282.437, \"end\": 283.178, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 283.178, \"end\": 283.658, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"輔\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 283.658, \"end\": 283.818, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 283.818, \"end\": 283.958, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 283.958, \"end\": 284.359, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"習\"}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 284.359, \"end\": 284.559, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 284.559, \"end\": 284.899, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 284.899, \"end\": 285.059, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"連\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 285.059, \"end\": 285.199, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 285.199, \"end\": 285.319, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 285.319, \"end\": 285.439, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"捧\", \"start\": 285.439, \"end\": 285.459, \"score\": 0.01}, {\"word\": \"場\"}]}, {\"start\": 286.425, \"end\": 310.447, \"text\": \"所以我現在的問題就是我們現在國科會還需要繼續做這件事嗎因為感覺上它的使用率普及率也很低然後它的所謂的標準現在也不如CHAP GPT那如果標準越差越大的話那當然大家就要用CHAP GPT啊誰要回國頭來用國科會做的東西那現在已經花3億元了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 286.425, \"end\": 286.465, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 286.465, \"end\": 286.605, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 286.605, \"end\": 286.685, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 286.685, \"end\": 286.865, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 286.865, \"end\": 287.266, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 287.266, \"end\": 287.406, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 287.406, \"end\": 288.327, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 288.327, \"end\": 288.467, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 288.467, \"end\": 288.747, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"科\", \"start\": 288.747, \"end\": 289.067, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"需\", \"start\": 289.067, \"end\": 289.187, 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00:01:38,055\n他現在初步的這個講法是還在規劃當中我們在討論的過程當中本來是要了解到他要捐贈的設備的這個規格但是因為這個發展太快速了所以他們現在還在衡量應該用什麼樣的規格那個時間點也許會落在明年那還要再找適當的地點那現在有幾個地方他在考慮當中目前就是\n\n5\n00:01:38,795 --> 00:01:56,601\n對,我也想要問主委這個問題,他是說要在台灣設第二座研發中心那目前我看新聞是說9個縣市都在爭取,包括我所在新北市也有相關的優勢因為惠達有43個供應鏈的廠商,大概有十幾家都在新北,算是最多\n\n6\n00:01:58,122 --> 00:02:11,614\n新竹有優勢在竹科和台積電附近高雄好像也有優勢主委以國會會的角度你覺得臺灣這些縣市要爭取第二座研發中心哪一個條件比較適合\n\n7\n00:02:14,116 --> 00:02:37,553\n賴總統有提過說臺灣均衡發展這個事情所以各縣市在發展特色的產業有足夠的這個基礎的有提供很好的這個條件我們從國會的角度來看我們都會盡量來協助他們所以你沒有特別去判定說誰比較有條件就對了目前還沒有我們會尊重揮打他的選擇因為跟他的這個產業發展也有關係\n\n8\n00:02:39,571 --> 00:02:56,962\n那主委其實我問這個問題當然另外也是想要表達一件事情就是說我們要發展AI啦我們盡量跟這些比較成就的產業合作會事半功倍啦我現在就想要舉一個我們國科會自己研發的一個所謂的深層式AI叫TAIDE嘛\n\n9\n00:02:58,983 --> 00:03:13,989\nTAIDE這是花3億元去年做的那當時為什麼要做本土的深層式AI呢有兩個目的一個目的說是要保護本土文化\n\n10\n00:03:15,149 --> 00:03:44,272\n因為覺得現在坊間的或是其他產業所做的深層式AI好像會太多簡體字會侵害到我們的本土的文化價值觀這是其中一個目的第二個目的當然就是發展我們自主人才啦兩個目的但是這一個花了3億元做的我們的深層式AI其實有很多問題首先全世界沒有其他國家有以國家為主體發展的深層式AI\n\n11\n00:03:45,333 --> 00:03:58,548\n日本也是用CHAPGPT再來就是第二你們現在這個生成式AI說已經可以跟CHAPGPT3.5相當\n\n12\n00:04:00,461 --> 00:04:22,068\n但CHAPGPT現在已經到4歐了啦已經有點跟不上了那還有一個問題就是它的使用率使用率呢你們國客會有把它放在工程師開放的平台讓人家下載喔大概下載的量是3萬下載不代表它有用喔有的只是下載來看一看才3萬\n\n13\n00:04:23,663 --> 00:04:45,459\n那你們內部的使用大概可能國會內部的相關單位用大概才600餘次而已那甚至於連民進黨地方政府台南市市長黃偉哲也是民進黨籍的他都說他要用CHAPGPT深層式AI來做輔助的學習平台結果連他都不捧場\n\n14\n00:04:46,425 --> 00:05:10,447\n所以我現在的問題就是我們現在國科會還需要繼續做這件事嗎因為感覺上它的使用率普及率也很低然後它的所謂的標準現在也不如CHAPGPT那如果標準越差越大的話那當然大家就要用CHAPGPT啊誰要回國頭來用國科會做的東西那現在已經花3億元了\n\n15\n00:05:11,346 --> 00:05:35,106\n接下來如果要迎頭趕上其他國家或其他的企業所做的這種AI的話你勢必要花更多的錢所以我不曉得說主委你的態度是怎樣我們其實目標並不是在跟現在通用型的這些AI的model來競爭我們的目標其實是把既有的這些AI的model把它\n\n16\n00:05:36,327 --> 00:06:04,397\n在地化在地化的意思就是說我們應用在台灣各行各業的時候那個資料必須要準確要能夠把模型在優化所以在地的訓練可以讓我們在台灣各行各業發展的時候可以做得更有效率然後在運算的時候更省電因為我們不用使用那個非常大型的通用型的模型所以這個工作我們接下來在應用的時候我們會注重\n\n17\n00:06:05,157 --> 00:06:21,584\n去把它擴散出去所以目前的這個展示的幾個項目只是一個例子而已只是一些例子而已我們的目標倒不是要去取代原來的不是取代問題是現在使用率很低嘛而且花了很多錢嘛因為我們剛剛建設完接下來預計還要花多少錢做這個東西接下來我們的計畫現在的規劃還要預計要花多少錢做這個東西\n\n18\n00:06:30,519 --> 00:06:58,187\n我想預算的項目我們再確認一次大概3億左右還要再花3億希望達到什麼樣的目標我跟委員解釋一下他們所謂的使用CHATGPT他們是使用雲端的當我們需要資料是有隱私保護的時候我們是沒有辦法上雲那我們發展台的目的就是希望能夠協助台灣的企業能夠保護他們自己的企業的隱私所以我們協助這個產業來發展\n\n19\n00:06:59,907 --> 00:07:06,030\n主委,您知不知道我們國科會在史丹佛大學有成立一個TaiwanScienceandTechnologyTechnologyHub?\n\n20\n00:07:21,809 --> 00:07:49,498\n知道嗎?花了一億元。數位知道這個事嗎?我知道這個事。那你知道這一億元是用在什麼地方嗎?我看了你們給我的資料,非常的簡單。那我就看到你們去參加了兩場的國際研討會。然後去參加了一個展覽。然後其他的費用就用在史丹佛的這個Hub辦公室。以及就是獎學金。就花了一億元。一年就花了一億元。請問一下這個Hub的效益是什麼啊?\n\n21\n00:07:50,441 --> 00:08:11,822\n我可以請我們柯國處長來羅處長我有個問題想問羅處長因為我們每一次跟國科會要資料都給的非常簡單愛寫不寫的就像我問說這議員用在哪裡只有給我三行字子偉你覺得國科會給委員資料一議員三行字這樣OK嗎\n\n22\n00:08:14,625 --> 00:08:41,039\n包括委員這可能有誤會的地方到時候我們再進行報告什麼叫到時候每次都是在委員會那邊敷衍然後處長我給你請教一下當我在要資料的時候你人在台灣嗎你人在台灣嗎包括委員因為上一次剛好人在矽谷你人在矽谷跟你的科長在矽谷嘛對不對請教一下處長跟科長在矽谷幹嘛出席一個Hoover陪前任的國會主委去嘛\n\n23\n00:08:42,364 --> 00:09:07,939\n是出席一個那個胡佛研究所的一個有關於研討好那是不是就跟這個Stanford這個什麼Hub有關是有關係有關是不是請你我今天因為時間不夠請你補一份完整的資料給我到底這一億元是用在哪裡國會很有錢我知道但這錢不是這樣亂花的你這一億元到底有沒有達到效益另外你這個Hub裡面你有一些獎學金對吧\n\n24\n00:09:09,253 --> 00:09:26,224\n獎學金一個人是7萬美金對不對結果這個7萬美金的獎學金的這個學生呢你是補助他到史丹佛做工作對不對做研究有沒有要求他做完研究之後一定要回國服務有沒有\n\n25\n00:09:27,847 --> 00:09:54,315\n做完研究的時候學員的話我們會追蹤我會追蹤他不回來沒關係嘛然後我們辦公室跟你要資料就是說到底你的權利義務你補助的獎學金的權利義務是什麼你不給我你說那個合約是學生跟史丹佛簽的所以今天我們給錢給學生學生去跟史丹佛簽約所有權務義務都由史丹佛來決定那我們國會會是很有錢喔\n\n26\n00:09:57,264 --> 00:10:22,561\n我們都不能追蹤欸我們都不能夠了解我們納稅人的錢到底花在哪裡欸國會會議是有這麼多錢是這樣子亂用的喔連一個效益評估都講不出來我也非常好奇處長你一直出國你到底效益是什麼啦你的處長跟科長一直到你出國假國際研討會之名到底做了什麼事你要不要一併把報告給我\n\n27\n00:10:24,571 --> 00:10:50,771\n有關於這個預算的使用以及那個成效這一部分我們會後會提供報告供委員參考會後提供報告不要會後又是幾行字我們都拿太多次每次在這邊問會後提供報告幾行字敷衍主委因為您剛來新人新氣象過去我們幾個月跟國會互動就是這樣每次都這樣委員會質詢什麼東西都講不清楚會後提供資料會後提供資料就是三言兩語然後再下一次再來委員會問\n\n28\n00:10:52,748 --> 00:10:57,871\n好,至少3月不能刪行,我們一定提供消息。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6567\t9949\t麻煩請國會主委,謝謝好,有請吳主委委員好主委好,今天主委我們討論AI嘛那因為這個AI旋風當然就是黃榮勳引起嘛不曉得主委,國會最近有沒有跟黃榮勳接觸有沒有我本來沒有跟他接觸過那國會有嘛國會有那大概是怎麼樣的接觸,談什麼議題\n29921\t40492\t國會當然是透過環環星的公司就是輝達他們在台灣的總經理有拜訪國科會所以我們有討論過那你們討論什麼議題討論輝達在台灣的這個投資可能未來的發展\n47999\t68668\t他們在台灣的投資他自己有宣布了就是目前的這個研發中心他會再擴大那可能會捐贈部分的這個算力來協助台灣的學術研究那大概可以會在台灣增加多少投資因為我看那個研發中心是會超過243億那其他的投資大概多少\n69008\t98055\t他現在初步的這個講法是還在規劃當中我們在討論的過程當中本來是要了解到他要捐贈的設備的這個規格但是因為這個發展太快速了所以他們現在還在衡量應該用什麼樣的規格那個時間點也許會落在明年那還要再找適當的地點那現在有幾個地方他在考慮當中目前就是\n98795\t116601\t對,我也想要問主委這個問題,他是說要在台灣設第二座研發中心那目前我看新聞是說9個縣市都在爭取,包括我所在新北市也有相關的優勢因為惠達有43個供應鏈的廠商,大概有十幾家都在新北,算是最多\n118122\t131614\t新竹有優勢在竹科和台積電附近高雄好像也有優勢主委以國會會的角度你覺得臺灣這些縣市要爭取第二座研發中心哪一個條件比較適合\n134116\t157553\t賴總統有提過說臺灣均衡發展這個事情所以各縣市在發展特色的產業有足夠的這個基礎的有提供很好的這個條件我們從國會的角度來看我們都會盡量來協助他們所以你沒有特別去判定說誰比較有條件就對了目前還沒有我們會尊重揮打他的選擇因為跟他的這個產業發展也有關係\n159571\t176962\t那主委其實我問這個問題當然另外也是想要表達一件事情就是說我們要發展AI啦我們盡量跟這些比較成就的產業合作會事半功倍啦我現在就想要舉一個我們國科會自己研發的一個所謂的深層式AI叫TAIDE嘛\n178983\t193989\tTAIDE這是花3億元去年做的那當時為什麼要做本土的深層式AI呢有兩個目的一個目的說是要保護本土文化\n195149\t224272\t因為覺得現在坊間的或是其他產業所做的深層式AI好像會太多簡體字會侵害到我們的本土的文化價值觀這是其中一個目的第二個目的當然就是發展我們自主人才啦兩個目的但是這一個花了3億元做的我們的深層式AI其實有很多問題首先全世界沒有其他國家有以國家為主體發展的深層式AI\n225333\t238548\t日本也是用CHAP GPT再來就是第二你們現在這個生成式AI說已經可以跟CHAP GPT 3.5相當\n240461\t262068\t但CHAP GPT現在已經到4歐了啦已經有點跟不上了那還有一個問題就是它的使用率使用率呢你們國客會有把它放在工程師開放的平台讓人家下載喔大概下載的量是3萬下載不代表它有用喔有的只是下載來看一看才3萬\n263663\t285459\t那你們內部的使用大概可能國會內部的相關單位用大概才600餘次而已那甚至於連民進黨地方政府台南市市長黃偉哲也是民進黨籍的他都說他要用CHAP GPT深層式AI來做輔助的學習平台結果連他都不捧場\n286425\t310447\t所以我現在的問題就是我們現在國科會還需要繼續做這件事嗎因為感覺上它的使用率普及率也很低然後它的所謂的標準現在也不如CHAP GPT那如果標準越差越大的話那當然大家就要用CHAP GPT啊誰要回國頭來用國科會做的東西那現在已經花3億元了\n311346\t335106\t接下來如果要迎頭趕上其他國家或其他的企業所做的這種AI的話你勢必要花更多的錢所以我不曉得說主委你的態度是怎樣我們其實目標並不是在跟現在通用型的這些AI的model來競爭我們的目標其實是把既有的這些AI的model把它\n336327\t364397\t在地化在地化的意思就是說我們應用在台灣各行各業的時候那個資料必須要準確要能夠把模型在優化所以在地的訓練可以讓我們在台灣各行各業發展的時候可以做得更有效率然後在運算的時候更省電因為我們不用使用那個非常大型的通用型的模型所以這個工作我們接下來在應用的時候我們會注重\n365157\t381584\t去把它擴散出去所以目前的這個展示的幾個項目只是一個例子而已只是一些例子而已我們的目標倒不是要去取代原來的不是取代問題是現在使用率很低嘛而且花了很多錢嘛因為我們剛剛建設完接下來預計還要花多少錢做這個東西接下來我們的計畫現在的規劃還要預計要花多少錢做這個東西\n390519\t418187\t我想預算的項目我們再確認一次大概3億左右還要再花3億希望達到什麼樣的目標我跟委員解釋一下他們所謂的使用CHAT GPT他們是使用雲端的當我們需要資料是有隱私保護的時候我們是沒有辦法上雲那我們發展台的目的就是希望能夠協助台灣的企業能夠保護他們自己的企業的隱私所以我們協助這個產業來發展\n419907\t426030\t主委,您知不知道我們國科會在史丹佛大學有成立一個Taiwan Science and Technology Technology Hub?\n441809\t469498\t知道嗎?花了一億元。數位知道這個事嗎?我知道這個事。那你知道這一億元是用在什麼地方嗎?我看了你們給我的資料,非常的簡單。那我就看到你們去參加了兩場的國際研討會。然後去參加了一個展覽。然後其他的費用就用在史丹佛的這個Hub辦公室。以及就是獎學金。就花了一億元。一年就花了一億元。請問一下這個Hub的效益是什麼啊?\n470441\t491822\t我可以請我們柯國處長 來羅處長 我有個問題想問羅處長因為我們每一次跟國科會要資料都給的非常簡單 愛寫不寫的就像我問說這議員用在哪裡 只有給我三行字 子偉你覺得國科會給委員資料一議員三行字這樣OK嗎\n494625\t521039\t包括委員這可能有誤會的地方到時候我們再進行報告什麼叫到時候每次都是在委員會那邊敷衍然後處長我給你請教一下當我在要資料的時候你人在台灣嗎你人在台灣嗎包括委員因為上一次剛好人在矽谷你人在矽谷跟你的科長在矽谷嘛對不對請教一下處長跟科長在矽谷幹嘛出席一個Hoover陪前任的國會主委去嘛\n522364\t547939\t是出席一個那個胡佛研究所的一個有關於研討好那是不是就跟這個Stanford這個什麼Hub有關是有關係有關是不是請你我今天因為時間不夠請你補一份完整的資料給我到底這一億元是用在哪裡國會很有錢我知道但這錢不是這樣亂花的你這一億元到底有沒有達到效益另外你這個Hub裡面你有一些獎學金對吧\n549253\t566224\t獎學金一個人是7萬美金對不對結果這個7萬美金的獎學金的這個學生呢你是補助他到史丹佛做工作對不對做研究有沒有要求他做完研究之後一定要回國服務有沒有\n567847\t594315\t做完研究的時候學員的話我們會追蹤我會追蹤他不回來沒關係嘛然後我們辦公室跟你要資料就是說到底你的權利義務你補助的獎學金的權利義務是什麼你不給我你說那個合約是學生跟史丹佛簽的所以今天我們給錢給學生學生去跟史丹佛簽約所有權務義務都由史丹佛來決定那我們國會會是很有錢喔\n597264\t622561\t我們都不能追蹤欸我們都不能夠了解我們納稅人的錢到底花在哪裡欸國會會議是有這麼多錢是這樣子亂用的喔連一個效益評估都講不出來我也非常好奇處長你一直出國你到底效益是什麼啦你的處長跟科長一直到你出國假國際研討會之名到底做了什麼事你要不要一併把報告給我\n624571\t650771\t有關於這個預算的使用以及那個成效這一部分我們會後會提供報告供委員參考會後提供報告不要會後又是幾行字我們都拿太多次每次在這邊問會後提供報告幾行字敷衍主委因為您剛來新人新氣象過去我們幾個月跟國會互動就是這樣每次都這樣委員會質詢什麼東西都講不清楚會後提供資料會後提供資料就是三言兩語然後再下一次再來委員會問\n652748\t657871\t好,至少3月不能刪行,我們一定提供消息。\n","txt":"麻煩請國會主委,謝謝好,有請吳主委委員好主委好,今天主委我們討論AI嘛那因為這個AI旋風當然就是黃榮勳引起嘛不曉得主委,國會最近有沒有跟黃榮勳接觸有沒有我本來沒有跟他接觸過那國會有嘛國會有那大概是怎麼樣的接觸,談什麼議題\n國會當然是透過環環星的公司就是輝達他們在台灣的總經理有拜訪國科會所以我們有討論過那你們討論什麼議題討論輝達在台灣的這個投資可能未來的發展\n他們在台灣的投資他自己有宣布了就是目前的這個研發中心他會再擴大那可能會捐贈部分的這個算力來協助台灣的學術研究那大概可以會在台灣增加多少投資因為我看那個研發中心是會超過243億那其他的投資大概多少\n他現在初步的這個講法是還在規劃當中我們在討論的過程當中本來是要了解到他要捐贈的設備的這個規格但是因為這個發展太快速了所以他們現在還在衡量應該用什麼樣的規格那個時間點也許會落在明年那還要再找適當的地點那現在有幾個地方他在考慮當中目前就是\n對,我也想要問主委這個問題,他是說要在台灣設第二座研發中心那目前我看新聞是說9個縣市都在爭取,包括我所在新北市也有相關的優勢因為惠達有43個供應鏈的廠商,大概有十幾家都在新北,算是最多\n新竹有優勢在竹科和台積電附近高雄好像也有優勢主委以國會會的角度你覺得臺灣這些縣市要爭取第二座研發中心哪一個條件比較適合\n賴總統有提過說臺灣均衡發展這個事情所以各縣市在發展特色的產業有足夠的這個基礎的有提供很好的這個條件我們從國會的角度來看我們都會盡量來協助他們所以你沒有特別去判定說誰比較有條件就對了目前還沒有我們會尊重揮打他的選擇因為跟他的這個產業發展也有關係\n那主委其實我問這個問題當然另外也是想要表達一件事情就是說我們要發展AI啦我們盡量跟這些比較成就的產業合作會事半功倍啦我現在就想要舉一個我們國科會自己研發的一個所謂的深層式AI叫TAIDE嘛\nTAIDE這是花3億元去年做的那當時為什麼要做本土的深層式AI呢有兩個目的一個目的說是要保護本土文化\n因為覺得現在坊間的或是其他產業所做的深層式AI好像會太多簡體字會侵害到我們的本土的文化價值觀這是其中一個目的第二個目的當然就是發展我們自主人才啦兩個目的但是這一個花了3億元做的我們的深層式AI其實有很多問題首先全世界沒有其他國家有以國家為主體發展的深層式AI\n日本也是用CHAP GPT再來就是第二你們現在這個生成式AI說已經可以跟CHAP GPT 3.5相當\n但CHAP GPT現在已經到4歐了啦已經有點跟不上了那還有一個問題就是它的使用率使用率呢你們國客會有把它放在工程師開放的平台讓人家下載喔大概下載的量是3萬下載不代表它有用喔有的只是下載來看一看才3萬\n那你們內部的使用大概可能國會內部的相關單位用大概才600餘次而已那甚至於連民進黨地方政府台南市市長黃偉哲也是民進黨籍的他都說他要用CHAP GPT深層式AI來做輔助的學習平台結果連他都不捧場\n所以我現在的問題就是我們現在國科會還需要繼續做這件事嗎因為感覺上它的使用率普及率也很低然後它的所謂的標準現在也不如CHAP GPT那如果標準越差越大的話那當然大家就要用CHAP GPT啊誰要回國頭來用國科會做的東西那現在已經花3億元了\n接下來如果要迎頭趕上其他國家或其他的企業所做的這種AI的話你勢必要花更多的錢所以我不曉得說主委你的態度是怎樣我們其實目標並不是在跟現在通用型的這些AI的model來競爭我們的目標其實是把既有的這些AI的model把它\n在地化在地化的意思就是說我們應用在台灣各行各業的時候那個資料必須要準確要能夠把模型在優化所以在地的訓練可以讓我們在台灣各行各業發展的時候可以做得更有效率然後在運算的時候更省電因為我們不用使用那個非常大型的通用型的模型所以這個工作我們接下來在應用的時候我們會注重\n去把它擴散出去所以目前的這個展示的幾個項目只是一個例子而已只是一些例子而已我們的目標倒不是要去取代原來的不是取代問題是現在使用率很低嘛而且花了很多錢嘛因為我們剛剛建設完接下來預計還要花多少錢做這個東西接下來我們的計畫現在的規劃還要預計要花多少錢做這個東西\n我想預算的項目我們再確認一次大概3億左右還要再花3億希望達到什麼樣的目標我跟委員解釋一下他們所謂的使用CHAT GPT他們是使用雲端的當我們需要資料是有隱私保護的時候我們是沒有辦法上雲那我們發展台的目的就是希望能夠協助台灣的企業能夠保護他們自己的企業的隱私所以我們協助這個產業來發展\n主委,您知不知道我們國科會在史丹佛大學有成立一個Taiwan Science and Technology Technology Hub?\n知道嗎?花了一億元。數位知道這個事嗎?我知道這個事。那你知道這一億元是用在什麼地方嗎?我看了你們給我的資料,非常的簡單。那我就看到你們去參加了兩場的國際研討會。然後去參加了一個展覽。然後其他的費用就用在史丹佛的這個Hub辦公室。以及就是獎學金。就花了一億元。一年就花了一億元。請問一下這個Hub的效益是什麼啊?\n我可以請我們柯國處長 來羅處長 我有個問題想問羅處長因為我們每一次跟國科會要資料都給的非常簡單 愛寫不寫的就像我問說這議員用在哪裡 只有給我三行字 子偉你覺得國科會給委員資料一議員三行字這樣OK嗎\n包括委員這可能有誤會的地方到時候我們再進行報告什麼叫到時候每次都是在委員會那邊敷衍然後處長我給你請教一下當我在要資料的時候你人在台灣嗎你人在台灣嗎包括委員因為上一次剛好人在矽谷你人在矽谷跟你的科長在矽谷嘛對不對請教一下處長跟科長在矽谷幹嘛出席一個Hoover陪前任的國會主委去嘛\n是出席一個那個胡佛研究所的一個有關於研討好那是不是就跟這個Stanford這個什麼Hub有關是有關係有關是不是請你我今天因為時間不夠請你補一份完整的資料給我到底這一億元是用在哪裡國會很有錢我知道但這錢不是這樣亂花的你這一億元到底有沒有達到效益另外你這個Hub裡面你有一些獎學金對吧\n獎學金一個人是7萬美金對不對結果這個7萬美金的獎學金的這個學生呢你是補助他到史丹佛做工作對不對做研究有沒有要求他做完研究之後一定要回國服務有沒有\n做完研究的時候學員的話我們會追蹤我會追蹤他不回來沒關係嘛然後我們辦公室跟你要資料就是說到底你的權利義務你補助的獎學金的權利義務是什麼你不給我你說那個合約是學生跟史丹佛簽的所以今天我們給錢給學生學生去跟史丹佛簽約所有權務義務都由史丹佛來決定那我們國會會是很有錢喔\n我們都不能追蹤欸我們都不能夠了解我們納稅人的錢到底花在哪裡欸國會會議是有這麼多錢是這樣子亂用的喔連一個效益評估都講不出來我也非常好奇處長你一直出國你到底效益是什麼啦你的處長跟科長一直到你出國假國際研討會之名到底做了什麼事你要不要一併把報告給我\n有關於這個預算的使用以及那個成效這一部分我們會後會提供報告供委員參考會後提供報告不要會後又是幾行字我們都拿太多次每次在這邊問會後提供報告幾行字敷衍主委因為您剛來新人新氣象過去我們幾個月跟國會互動就是這樣每次都這樣委員會質詢什麼東西都講不清楚會後提供資料會後提供資料就是三言兩語然後再下一次再來委員會問\n好,至少3月不能刪行,我們一定提供消息。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.567 --> 00:09.949\n麻煩請國會主委,謝謝好,有請吳主委委員好主委好,今天主委我們討論AI嘛那因為這個AI旋風當然就是黃榮勳引起嘛不曉得主委,國會最近有沒有跟黃榮勳接觸有沒有我本來沒有跟他接觸過那國會有嘛國會有那大概是怎麼樣的接觸,談什麼議題\n\n00:29.921 --> 00:40.492\n國會當然是透過環環星的公司就是輝達他們在台灣的總經理有拜訪國科會所以我們有討論過那你們討論什麼議題討論輝達在台灣的這個投資可能未來的發展\n\n00:47.999 --> 01:08.668\n他們在台灣的投資他自己有宣布了就是目前的這個研發中心他會再擴大那可能會捐贈部分的這個算力來協助台灣的學術研究那大概可以會在台灣增加多少投資因為我看那個研發中心是會超過243億那其他的投資大概多少\n\n01:09.008 --> 01:38.055\n他現在初步的這個講法是還在規劃當中我們在討論的過程當中本來是要了解到他要捐贈的設備的這個規格但是因為這個發展太快速了所以他們現在還在衡量應該用什麼樣的規格那個時間點也許會落在明年那還要再找適當的地點那現在有幾個地方他在考慮當中目前就是\n\n01:38.795 --> 01:56.601\n對,我也想要問主委這個問題,他是說要在台灣設第二座研發中心那目前我看新聞是說9個縣市都在爭取,包括我所在新北市也有相關的優勢因為惠達有43個供應鏈的廠商,大概有十幾家都在新北,算是最多\n\n01:58.122 --> 02:11.614\n新竹有優勢在竹科和台積電附近高雄好像也有優勢主委以國會會的角度你覺得臺灣這些縣市要爭取第二座研發中心哪一個條件比較適合\n\n02:14.116 --> 02:37.553\n賴總統有提過說臺灣均衡發展這個事情所以各縣市在發展特色的產業有足夠的這個基礎的有提供很好的這個條件我們從國會的角度來看我們都會盡量來協助他們所以你沒有特別去判定說誰比較有條件就對了目前還沒有我們會尊重揮打他的選擇因為跟他的這個產業發展也有關係\n\n02:39.571 --> 02:56.962\n那主委其實我問這個問題當然另外也是想要表達一件事情就是說我們要發展AI啦我們盡量跟這些比較成就的產業合作會事半功倍啦我現在就想要舉一個我們國科會自己研發的一個所謂的深層式AI叫TAIDE嘛\n\n02:58.983 --> 03:13.989\nTAIDE這是花3億元去年做的那當時為什麼要做本土的深層式AI呢有兩個目的一個目的說是要保護本土文化\n\n03:15.149 --> 03:44.272\n因為覺得現在坊間的或是其他產業所做的深層式AI好像會太多簡體字會侵害到我們的本土的文化價值觀這是其中一個目的第二個目的當然就是發展我們自主人才啦兩個目的但是這一個花了3億元做的我們的深層式AI其實有很多問題首先全世界沒有其他國家有以國家為主體發展的深層式AI\n\n03:45.333 --> 03:58.548\n日本也是用CHAPGPT再來就是第二你們現在這個生成式AI說已經可以跟CHAPGPT3.5相當\n\n04:00.461 --> 04:22.068\n但CHAPGPT現在已經到4歐了啦已經有點跟不上了那還有一個問題就是它的使用率使用率呢你們國客會有把它放在工程師開放的平台讓人家下載喔大概下載的量是3萬下載不代表它有用喔有的只是下載來看一看才3萬\n\n04:23.663 --> 04:45.459\n那你們內部的使用大概可能國會內部的相關單位用大概才600餘次而已那甚至於連民進黨地方政府台南市市長黃偉哲也是民進黨籍的他都說他要用CHAPGPT深層式AI來做輔助的學習平台結果連他都不捧場\n\n04:46.425 --> 05:10.447\n所以我現在的問題就是我們現在國科會還需要繼續做這件事嗎因為感覺上它的使用率普及率也很低然後它的所謂的標準現在也不如CHAPGPT那如果標準越差越大的話那當然大家就要用CHAPGPT啊誰要回國頭來用國科會做的東西那現在已經花3億元了\n\n05:11.346 --> 05:35.106\n接下來如果要迎頭趕上其他國家或其他的企業所做的這種AI的話你勢必要花更多的錢所以我不曉得說主委你的態度是怎樣我們其實目標並不是在跟現在通用型的這些AI的model來競爭我們的目標其實是把既有的這些AI的model把它\n\n05:36.327 --> 06:04.397\n在地化在地化的意思就是說我們應用在台灣各行各業的時候那個資料必須要準確要能夠把模型在優化所以在地的訓練可以讓我們在台灣各行各業發展的時候可以做得更有效率然後在運算的時候更省電因為我們不用使用那個非常大型的通用型的模型所以這個工作我們接下來在應用的時候我們會注重\n\n06:05.157 --> 06:21.584\n去把它擴散出去所以目前的這個展示的幾個項目只是一個例子而已只是一些例子而已我們的目標倒不是要去取代原來的不是取代問題是現在使用率很低嘛而且花了很多錢嘛因為我們剛剛建設完接下來預計還要花多少錢做這個東西接下來我們的計畫現在的規劃還要預計要花多少錢做這個東西\n\n06:30.519 --> 06:58.187\n我想預算的項目我們再確認一次大概3億左右還要再花3億希望達到什麼樣的目標我跟委員解釋一下他們所謂的使用CHATGPT他們是使用雲端的當我們需要資料是有隱私保護的時候我們是沒有辦法上雲那我們發展台的目的就是希望能夠協助台灣的企業能夠保護他們自己的企業的隱私所以我們協助這個產業來發展\n\n06:59.907 --> 07:06.030\n主委,您知不知道我們國科會在史丹佛大學有成立一個TaiwanScienceandTechnologyTechnologyHub?\n\n07:21.809 --> 07:49.498\n知道嗎?花了一億元。數位知道這個事嗎?我知道這個事。那你知道這一億元是用在什麼地方嗎?我看了你們給我的資料,非常的簡單。那我就看到你們去參加了兩場的國際研討會。然後去參加了一個展覽。然後其他的費用就用在史丹佛的這個Hub辦公室。以及就是獎學金。就花了一億元。一年就花了一億元。請問一下這個Hub的效益是什麼啊?\n\n07:50.441 --> 08:11.822\n我可以請我們柯國處長來羅處長我有個問題想問羅處長因為我們每一次跟國科會要資料都給的非常簡單愛寫不寫的就像我問說這議員用在哪裡只有給我三行字子偉你覺得國科會給委員資料一議員三行字這樣OK嗎\n\n08:14.625 --> 08:41.039\n包括委員這可能有誤會的地方到時候我們再進行報告什麼叫到時候每次都是在委員會那邊敷衍然後處長我給你請教一下當我在要資料的時候你人在台灣嗎你人在台灣嗎包括委員因為上一次剛好人在矽谷你人在矽谷跟你的科長在矽谷嘛對不對請教一下處長跟科長在矽谷幹嘛出席一個Hoover陪前任的國會主委去嘛\n\n08:42.364 --> 09:07.939\n是出席一個那個胡佛研究所的一個有關於研討好那是不是就跟這個Stanford這個什麼Hub有關是有關係有關是不是請你我今天因為時間不夠請你補一份完整的資料給我到底這一億元是用在哪裡國會很有錢我知道但這錢不是這樣亂花的你這一億元到底有沒有達到效益另外你這個Hub裡面你有一些獎學金對吧\n\n09:09.253 --> 09:26.224\n獎學金一個人是7萬美金對不對結果這個7萬美金的獎學金的這個學生呢你是補助他到史丹佛做工作對不對做研究有沒有要求他做完研究之後一定要回國服務有沒有\n\n09:27.847 --> 09:54.315\n做完研究的時候學員的話我們會追蹤我會追蹤他不回來沒關係嘛然後我們辦公室跟你要資料就是說到底你的權利義務你補助的獎學金的權利義務是什麼你不給我你說那個合約是學生跟史丹佛簽的所以今天我們給錢給學生學生去跟史丹佛簽約所有權務義務都由史丹佛來決定那我們國會會是很有錢喔\n\n09:57.264 --> 10:22.561\n我們都不能追蹤欸我們都不能夠了解我們納稅人的錢到底花在哪裡欸國會會議是有這麼多錢是這樣子亂用的喔連一個效益評估都講不出來我也非常好奇處長你一直出國你到底效益是什麼啦你的處長跟科長一直到你出國假國際研討會之名到底做了什麼事你要不要一併把報告給我\n\n10:24.571 --> 10:50.771\n有關於這個預算的使用以及那個成效這一部分我們會後會提供報告供委員參考會後提供報告不要會後又是幾行字我們都拿太多次每次在這邊問會後提供報告幾行字敷衍主委因為您剛來新人新氣象過去我們幾個月跟國會互動就是這樣每次都這樣委員會質詢什麼東西都講不清楚會後提供資料會後提供資料就是三言兩語然後再下一次再來委員會問\n\n10:52.748 --> 10:57.871\n好,至少3月不能刪行,我們一定提供消息。\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.567,"end":9.949,"text":"麻煩請國會主委,謝謝好,有請吳主委委員好主委好,今天主委我們討論AI嘛那因為這個AI旋風當然就是黃榮勳引起嘛不曉得主委,國會最近有沒有跟黃榮勳接觸有沒有我本來沒有跟他接觸過那國會有嘛國會有那大概是怎麼樣的接觸,談什麼議題"},{"start":29.921,"end":40.492,"text":"國會當然是透過環環星的公司就是輝達他們在台灣的總經理有拜訪國科會所以我們有討論過那你們討論什麼議題討論輝達在台灣的這個投資可能未來的發展"},{"start":47.999,"end":68.668,"text":"他們在台灣的投資他自己有宣布了就是目前的這個研發中心他會再擴大那可能會捐贈部分的這個算力來協助台灣的學術研究那大概可以會在台灣增加多少投資因為我看那個研發中心是會超過243億那其他的投資大概多少"},{"start":69.008,"end":98.055,"text":"他現在初步的這個講法是還在規劃當中我們在討論的過程當中本來是要了解到他要捐贈的設備的這個規格但是因為這個發展太快速了所以他們現在還在衡量應該用什麼樣的規格那個時間點也許會落在明年那還要再找適當的地點那現在有幾個地方他在考慮當中目前就是"},{"start":98.795,"end":116.601,"text":"對,我也想要問主委這個問題,他是說要在台灣設第二座研發中心那目前我看新聞是說9個縣市都在爭取,包括我所在新北市也有相關的優勢因為惠達有43個供應鏈的廠商,大概有十幾家都在新北,算是最多"},{"start":118.122,"end":131.614,"text":"新竹有優勢在竹科和台積電附近高雄好像也有優勢主委以國會會的角度你覺得臺灣這些縣市要爭取第二座研發中心哪一個條件比較適合"},{"start":134.116,"end":157.553,"text":"賴總統有提過說臺灣均衡發展這個事情所以各縣市在發展特色的產業有足夠的這個基礎的有提供很好的這個條件我們從國會的角度來看我們都會盡量來協助他們所以你沒有特別去判定說誰比較有條件就對了目前還沒有我們會尊重揮打他的選擇因為跟他的這個產業發展也有關係"},{"start":159.571,"end":176.962,"text":"那主委其實我問這個問題當然另外也是想要表達一件事情就是說我們要發展AI啦我們盡量跟這些比較成就的產業合作會事半功倍啦我現在就想要舉一個我們國科會自己研發的一個所謂的深層式AI叫TAIDE嘛"},{"start":178.983,"end":193.989,"text":"TAIDE這是花3億元去年做的那當時為什麼要做本土的深層式AI呢有兩個目的一個目的說是要保護本土文化"},{"start":195.149,"end":224.272,"text":"因為覺得現在坊間的或是其他產業所做的深層式AI好像會太多簡體字會侵害到我們的本土的文化價值觀這是其中一個目的第二個目的當然就是發展我們自主人才啦兩個目的但是這一個花了3億元做的我們的深層式AI其實有很多問題首先全世界沒有其他國家有以國家為主體發展的深層式AI"},{"start":225.333,"end":238.548,"text":"日本也是用CHAP GPT再來就是第二你們現在這個生成式AI說已經可以跟CHAP GPT 3.5相當"},{"start":240.461,"end":262.068,"text":"但CHAP GPT現在已經到4歐了啦已經有點跟不上了那還有一個問題就是它的使用率使用率呢你們國客會有把它放在工程師開放的平台讓人家下載喔大概下載的量是3萬下載不代表它有用喔有的只是下載來看一看才3萬"},{"start":263.663,"end":285.459,"text":"那你們內部的使用大概可能國會內部的相關單位用大概才600餘次而已那甚至於連民進黨地方政府台南市市長黃偉哲也是民進黨籍的他都說他要用CHAP GPT深層式AI來做輔助的學習平台結果連他都不捧場"},{"start":286.425,"end":310.447,"text":"所以我現在的問題就是我們現在國科會還需要繼續做這件事嗎因為感覺上它的使用率普及率也很低然後它的所謂的標準現在也不如CHAP GPT那如果標準越差越大的話那當然大家就要用CHAP GPT啊誰要回國頭來用國科會做的東西那現在已經花3億元了"},{"start":311.346,"end":335.106,"text":"接下來如果要迎頭趕上其他國家或其他的企業所做的這種AI的話你勢必要花更多的錢所以我不曉得說主委你的態度是怎樣我們其實目標並不是在跟現在通用型的這些AI的model來競爭我們的目標其實是把既有的這些AI的model把它"},{"start":336.327,"end":364.397,"text":"在地化在地化的意思就是說我們應用在台灣各行各業的時候那個資料必須要準確要能夠把模型在優化所以在地的訓練可以讓我們在台灣各行各業發展的時候可以做得更有效率然後在運算的時候更省電因為我們不用使用那個非常大型的通用型的模型所以這個工作我們接下來在應用的時候我們會注重"},{"start":365.157,"end":381.584,"text":"去把它擴散出去所以目前的這個展示的幾個項目只是一個例子而已只是一些例子而已我們的目標倒不是要去取代原來的不是取代問題是現在使用率很低嘛而且花了很多錢嘛因為我們剛剛建設完接下來預計還要花多少錢做這個東西接下來我們的計畫現在的規劃還要預計要花多少錢做這個東西"},{"start":390.519,"end":418.187,"text":"我想預算的項目我們再確認一次大概3億左右還要再花3億希望達到什麼樣的目標我跟委員解釋一下他們所謂的使用CHAT GPT他們是使用雲端的當我們需要資料是有隱私保護的時候我們是沒有辦法上雲那我們發展台的目的就是希望能夠協助台灣的企業能夠保護他們自己的企業的隱私所以我們協助這個產業來發展"},{"start":419.907,"end":426.03,"text":"主委,您知不知道我們國科會在史丹佛大學有成立一個Taiwan Science and Technology Technology Hub?"},{"start":441.809,"end":469.498,"text":"知道嗎?花了一億元。數位知道這個事嗎?我知道這個事。那你知道這一億元是用在什麼地方嗎?我看了你們給我的資料,非常的簡單。那我就看到你們去參加了兩場的國際研討會。然後去參加了一個展覽。然後其他的費用就用在史丹佛的這個Hub辦公室。以及就是獎學金。就花了一億元。一年就花了一億元。請問一下這個Hub的效益是什麼啊?"},{"start":470.441,"end":491.822,"text":"我可以請我們柯國處長 來羅處長 我有個問題想問羅處長因為我們每一次跟國科會要資料都給的非常簡單 愛寫不寫的就像我問說這議員用在哪裡 只有給我三行字 子偉你覺得國科會給委員資料一議員三行字這樣OK嗎"},{"start":494.625,"end":521.039,"text":"包括委員這可能有誤會的地方到時候我們再進行報告什麼叫到時候每次都是在委員會那邊敷衍然後處長我給你請教一下當我在要資料的時候你人在台灣嗎你人在台灣嗎包括委員因為上一次剛好人在矽谷你人在矽谷跟你的科長在矽谷嘛對不對請教一下處長跟科長在矽谷幹嘛出席一個Hoover陪前任的國會主委去嘛"},{"start":522.364,"end":547.939,"text":"是出席一個那個胡佛研究所的一個有關於研討好那是不是就跟這個Stanford這個什麼Hub有關是有關係有關是不是請你我今天因為時間不夠請你補一份完整的資料給我到底這一億元是用在哪裡國會很有錢我知道但這錢不是這樣亂花的你這一億元到底有沒有達到效益另外你這個Hub裡面你有一些獎學金對吧"},{"start":549.253,"end":566.224,"text":"獎學金一個人是7萬美金對不對結果這個7萬美金的獎學金的這個學生呢你是補助他到史丹佛做工作對不對做研究有沒有要求他做完研究之後一定要回國服務有沒有"},{"start":567.847,"end":594.315,"text":"做完研究的時候學員的話我們會追蹤我會追蹤他不回來沒關係嘛然後我們辦公室跟你要資料就是說到底你的權利義務你補助的獎學金的權利義務是什麼你不給我你說那個合約是學生跟史丹佛簽的所以今天我們給錢給學生學生去跟史丹佛簽約所有權務義務都由史丹佛來決定那我們國會會是很有錢喔"},{"start":597.264,"end":622.561,"text":"我們都不能追蹤欸我們都不能夠了解我們納稅人的錢到底花在哪裡欸國會會議是有這麼多錢是這樣子亂用的喔連一個效益評估都講不出來我也非常好奇處長你一直出國你到底效益是什麼啦你的處長跟科長一直到你出國假國際研討會之名到底做了什麼事你要不要一併把報告給我"},{"start":624.571,"end":650.771,"text":"有關於這個預算的使用以及那個成效這一部分我們會後會提供報告供委員參考會後提供報告不要會後又是幾行字我們都拿太多次每次在這邊問會後提供報告幾行字敷衍主委因為您剛來新人新氣象過去我們幾個月跟國會互動就是這樣每次都這樣委員會質詢什麼東西都講不清楚會後提供資料會後提供資料就是三言兩語然後再下一次再來委員會問"},{"start":652.748,"end":657.871,"text":"好,至少3月不能刪行,我們一定提供消息。"}]}}}}