{"id":153577,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153577","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/18e54f584c581c98216fa021d8c09e6aa6cabf0dc0d1a8b768f95e3d087843c2b2462f6caa9091c65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張嘉郡","委員發言時間":"10:39:50 - 10:49:10","影片長度":"00:09:20","會議時間":"2024-06-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-05","start_time":"2024-06-05T10:39:50+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-05T10:49:10+08:00","duration":560,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-15"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":406,"blocks":[["張委員嘉郡：（10時40分）主席，我想請郭部長。"],["主席：來，請郭部長。"],["張委員嘉郡：郭部長，您的上任對產業界來說是非常振奮的消息，過去8年來臺灣主管經濟的兩個部長都是從經濟部文官體系上來的，所以您的上任可以說是讓整個經濟部都有耳目一新的感覺，大家都期待你有更務實、更貼近民意的作為，那你上任到現在已經兩個禮拜了，從產業界到政務官，你有什麼特別的感想嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員，在這個時間可以說這個嗎？"],["張委員嘉郡：可以啊！"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝你，我當然感想很多啦！"],["張委員嘉郡：感想很多，很累嗎？有感覺累嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：累是不會啦！但是平時我在公司是我問人家，然後我現在當公務人員，變成是別人問我。"],["張委員嘉郡：您辛苦了！但是本席要特別提醒您，就是一定要注意一個東西，那就是小動物，像蛇、松鼠、鳥，你知道為什麼要注意這些東西嗎？因為這些小動物就是造成我們停電的主要原因，未來部長一定要詳細的查明。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["張委員嘉郡：那對於臺灣未來經濟的擘劃，您是少數能夠明確具體來提出一個方向的部長，您說未來靠AI伺服器跟AI晶片可以讓臺灣經濟再發展50年，加上這幾天有AI教父──輝達的創辦人黃仁勳引來旋風，讓臺灣的AI產業可以說一時成為最熱門的議題，那對於AI產業的發展，部長認為我們臺灣目前所面臨的最大挑戰是什麼呢？"],["郭部長智輝：我們現在面臨的最大挑戰就是熟悉AI這個領域的工程師太少。"],["張委員嘉郡：人才不足。"],["郭部長智輝：我們只會生產AI晶片，我們只會做AI伺服器，但是如何利用AI的能力，在這方面的工程師太少，所以它沒有辦法幫助我們百工百業，我剛才說AI如果做得好，AI的應用用得好，臺灣現有的百工百業都能夠導入AI這樣的一個tooling，那我相信可以幫助它更精準地去預估未來的情況，做出更正確的判斷，所以非常的需要這一類的工程師。"],["張委員嘉郡：好，據本席所瞭解，除了人才不足之外，我們用水、用電的能源供應問題也非常迫切的需要解決。根據統計，AI伺服器的耗電量大約是傳統伺服器的3至20倍，那在美國ChatGPT每天要耗損56萬度電，以臺灣夏季每戶平均用電14度電來計算的話，等於每天臺灣4萬戶的用電量。請問部長，目前AI在臺灣的用電量大嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：目前還不大。"],["張委員嘉郡：你說目前還不大，就是代表未來如果我們要大力發展AI產業，就會面臨供電不一定跟得上的情況，是嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：委員所說的是對的。"],["張委員嘉郡：是，那我想要請問部長，假設AI訓練跟AI資料中心的用電，包括AI晶片的製造，都依照部長的規劃，而且這兩項產業都蓬勃發展的話，臺灣每年耗電要增加幾個百分比？好，沒關係，經濟部已經有預估答案，本席有拿到答案了，就是預估每年會增加3%的用電，在10年內要增加30%。您之前在參加媒體茶敘時有說用電是未來最大的變數，就是未來AI在2025年可能會有一個產業爆發期。我想要問部長的就是這個3%的預估值到底準不準確？你看一下，這是過去11年來用電增加的數據，增加2.9%，增加4.7%，增加2.8%，其實這個用電會增加3%的預估，我覺得有可能低估了，有可能遠遠超過3%，您覺得呢？如果蓬勃發展的話，是不是有可能？"],["郭部長智輝：是的，3%的預估是根據過去的歷史紀錄，平均1.8%，然後增加到3%。"],["張委員嘉郡：對啊！所以有可能其實會超過3%，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：是也有可能如委員所指教的，可能會超過。"],["張委員嘉郡：部長是否知道下一座要除役的核電機組什麼時候除役嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：都知道。"],["張委員嘉郡：今年7月27號，就是不到兩個月以後，核三廠的一號機就要停止商轉了，再過一年，明年的5月17號，二號機也要停止商轉了，核三廠除役之後，大約會有6%至7%的用電缺口，再加上每年最基本保守估計要3%，我們從明年開始，每年會有10%的用電缺口，目前我們都是努力燒天然氣等等，部長知道這兩年來因為燒天然氣撥補了台電多少錢嗎？部長，您知道我們這三年來總共撥補了台電多少錢嗎？你不知道，我告訴你是4,001億，4,001億不是一個小數字喔！這個4,001億要多蓋一個核電廠都夠，但沒想到，我們補貼了4,001億之外，台電還虧損三千八百多億，所以我想要知道，部長剛剛在質詢裡面有講不支持公務預算繼續撥補，那您有沒有什麼看法要解決這個問題呢？"],["郭部長智輝：目前我因為剛到，才第18天，所以我還沒有那麼多的時間可以去思考。"],["張委員嘉郡：這個部分可能要拜託部長審慎地思考評估有沒有一個新的作為要來突破這個困難，因為目前核能每度電是1.1元，天然氣發電是它的三倍、3.09元，再生能源的話更貴，是5.47元，所以我也很好奇，為什麼我們不用便宜的、乾淨的能源呢？部長也會不會很納悶呢？"],["郭部長智輝：這個問題我還在思考。"],["張委員嘉郡：等於是說有沒有可能爭取核三延役呢？如果核三延役可以為臺灣再爭取兩至三年的空間，部長有考慮過嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：現在核三的問題我們都有考慮，不過因為核三基於法令的規範，它一定要停役，然後要……"],["張委員嘉郡：可以修法啊！其實經濟部也可以主動提修法，經濟部有考慮主動來提出修法嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：跟委員報告，它停下來再復工大概要3年，這個要3年，所以我……"],["張委員嘉郡：所以你現在還有時間喔！7月27號才要第一座機組停止，你現在趕快提出都還有機會，現在是你最關鍵的寶貴時間了。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，根據程序來講的話，它一定要停3年以後才可以再上來……"],["張委員嘉郡：這個是有機會可以討論的，我真心希望部長，您現在好好地……"],["郭部長智輝：因為一部機器……"],["張委員嘉郡：跟你的幕僚人員討論這個問題，因為在歐洲、在美國，其實它的核電機組是可以運營到40至60年的……"],["郭部長智輝：沒錯。"],["張委員嘉郡：我們其實運營的時間只有它的一半，所以我覺得這是值得考慮的。另外台電慘賠4,000億是因為天然氣的價格提高，這是他們所說的。我們在一年前就已經回到戰前的價格水平了，但台電到目前為止還在繼續賠，到底我們買了什麼樣的天然氣合約？是不是可以請部長調閱相關資料並公布合約？過去台電也曾經被傳出購煤弊案，經濟部就曾經公布，這是有前例的，所以也請部長是不是能夠提供給本委員會相關的資料？"],["郭部長智輝：資料一定可以提供給委員。"],["張委員嘉郡：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張嘉郡委員，部長，請回座休息。","接下來我們請陳亭妃委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":272,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-15","speakers":["邱議瑩","林岱樺","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra 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{\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"爆\", \"start\": 263.599, \"end\": 264.239, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 264.239, \"end\": 264.899, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 264.899, \"end\": 265.1, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 265.1, \"end\": 265.34, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 265.34, \"end\": 265.54, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 265.54, \"end\": 266.26, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 266.26, \"end\": 266.621, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 266.621, \"end\": 266.741, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 266.741, \"end\": 266.881, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 266.881, \"end\": 268.502, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 268.502, \"end\": 269.062, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": 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370.205, \"text\": \"部長,您知道我們總共這三年來撥補了台電多少錢嗎?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 366.175, \"end\": 366.817, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 366.817, \"end\": 367.017, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 367.017, \"end\": 367.157, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 367.157, \"end\": 367.358, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 367.358, \"end\": 367.879, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 367.879, \"end\": 368.621, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 368.621, \"end\": 368.822, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 368.822, \"end\": 369.523, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"撥\"}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 369.523, \"end\": 369.664, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 369.664, \"end\": 370.024, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", 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\"end\": 542.821, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"弊\", \"start\": 542.821, \"end\": 543.001, \"score\": 0.745}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 543.001, \"end\": 543.181, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 543.181, \"end\": 543.682, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 543.682, \"end\": 543.822, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 543.822, \"end\": 544.002, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"曾\", \"start\": 544.002, \"end\": 544.402, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 544.402, \"end\": 544.923, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"佈\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 544.923, \"end\": 545.043, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 545.043, \"end\": 545.463, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"潛\"}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 545.463, \"end\": 545.643, \"score\": 0.735}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 545.643, \"end\": 546.064, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"所\", 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{\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 549.206, \"end\": 549.346, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 549.346, \"end\": 549.466, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 549.466, \"end\": 549.486, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"嘉\", \"start\": 551.909, \"end\": 552.23, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"郡\", \"start\": 552.23, \"end\": 552.25, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:02,329\n主席我想請郭部長來請郭部長郭部長您的上任對產業界來說是非常振奮的消息過去8年來臺灣主管經濟的兩個部長都是從經濟部文官體系所上來的\n\n2\n00:00:25,854 --> 00:00:41,947\n所以您的上任可以說是讓整個經濟部都有耳目一新的感覺大家都期待你有一個更務實更貼近民意的作為那上任到現在已經兩個禮拜了從產業界到政務官有什麼特別的感想嗎\n\n3\n00:00:46,484 --> 00:01:04,190\n謝謝委員,這個時間可以說這個嗎?可以啊,可以啊。謝謝你,當然感想很多了。感想很多,很累嗎?有感覺累嗎?累是不會啦,但是平時我在公司是我問人家,然後我現在當公務人員是別人問我。\n\n4\n00:01:06,370 --> 00:01:33,900\n您辛苦了但是本席特別要提醒您就是一定要注意一個東西那就是小動物你知道蛇、松鼠、鳥你知道為什麼要注意這些東西嗎因為這些小動物就是造成我們停電的主要原因未來部長一定要詳細的查明那對於台灣未來經濟的破壞您是少數能夠明確具體的提出一個方向的部長\n\n5\n00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:42,183\n那您說未來靠AI伺服器跟AI晶片可以讓臺灣經濟再發展50年那加上這幾天有這個AI教父回答的創辦人黃仁詢引來旋風讓臺灣的AI產業可以說是一時成為最熱門的議題那對於AI產業的發展部長認為我們臺灣現在目前面臨最大的挑戰是什麼呢?\n\n6\n00:01:59,750 --> 00:02:24,393\n我們現在面臨最大的挑戰就是熟悉AI這個領域的工程師太少我們只會生產AI晶片我們只會做這個AI伺服器但是如何利用AI的這個能力啊那麼這一方面的這個工程師太少所以他沒有辦法幫助我們百工百業我剛才在講說AI如果做得好\n\n7\n00:02:25,094 --> 00:02:25,234\n：張嘉郡\n\n8\n00:02:44,937 --> 00:03:03,681\n據本席所瞭解除了人才不足之外我們的用水用電的能源供應問題有也非常的迫切需要解決那據根據統計有AI伺服器的耗電量大約是傳統伺服器的3至20倍那在美國GPP每天要耗\n\n9\n00:03:07,782 --> 00:03:08,523\n目前AI在臺灣的用電量大嗎?\n\n10\n00:03:26,311 --> 00:03:50,907\n目前還不大目前還不大就是代表未來如果我們要大力發展AI產業就會面臨供電不一定跟得上的情況是嗎委員所說的是對的是那我想要請問部長每年假設這AI訓練跟AI資料中心的用電包括AI晶片的製造依照部長的規劃這兩項產業都蓬勃發展的話台灣每年耗電要增加幾個百分比\n\n11\n00:03:56,271 --> 00:03:57,911\n法定人數不足\n\n12\n00:04:01,663 --> 00:04:29,383\n沒關係這個經濟部已經有預估答案本席已經拿到答案了預估每年會增加3%的用電那10年內要增加30%那據您之前參加媒體查敘時你有表達說用電是未來最大的變數就是未來AI可能尤其在2025年可能會有一個產業爆發期那我想要問部長的就是說這3%的預估值\n\n13\n00:04:29,923 --> 00:04:52,621\n到底準不準確因為你看一下這是過去11年來的這個用電增加的這個數據那其實增加2.9增加4.7增加2.8其實這個用電說3%的預估我覺得有可能低估了有可能遠遠超過3%您覺得呢是不是有可能如果蓬勃發展的話那\n\n14\n00:04:59,642 --> 00:05:14,085\n是的,3%的預估是根據過去的歷史記錄,平均1.8%,然後增加到3%所以有可能其實是會超過3%的,對不對?這個委員所指教的,可能會超過\n\n15\n00:05:15,256 --> 00:05:33,311\n那部長知道說我們下一座要除役的機組是什麼時候要除役嗎就是核電的機組都知道今年7月27號就不到兩個月以後我們的核三廠的第1號機就要停止商轉了那再過一年明年的5月17號2號機也要停止商轉了\n\n16\n00:05:36,394 --> 00:05:37,615\n這兩年來我們因為燒天然氣撥補了台電多少錢嗎\n\n17\n00:06:06,175 --> 00:06:10,205\n部長,您知道我們總共這三年來撥補了台電多少錢嗎?\n\n18\n00:06:11,826 --> 00:06:12,366\n您有沒有什麼看法要解決這個問題呢?\n\n19\n00:06:41,511 --> 00:06:59,130\n這個目前我因為剛到才第18天所以我還沒有那麼多的時間可以去思考這個部分可能要拜託部長省慎的思考評估有沒有一個新的作為要來突破這個困難因為目前核能每度電是1.1元天然氣發電是他的3倍3.09元那這個\n\n20\n00:07:02,193 --> 00:07:11,978\n在生能源的話更貴是5.47元那所以我也很好奇說為什麼我們不用便宜的乾淨的能源呢部長也會不會覺得很納悶呢這個問題我還在思考就是等於是說有沒有可能爭取核三研議呢如果核三研議可以為台灣再爭取兩次三年的空間部長有考慮過嗎\n\n21\n00:07:30,527 --> 00:07:52,045\n現在河山的問題是我們都有考慮了不過因為河山基於這個法令的這個規範他一定要這個停議是可以修法其實經濟部也可以主動提修法經濟部有考慮說主動來提出修法嗎跟委員報告就是說他停下來再付大概要三年\n\n22\n00:07:53,288 --> 00:07:55,150\n根據程序來講的話那麼他一定要停3年以後才可以再上案\n\n23\n00:08:14,029 --> 00:08:37,182\n這個是有機會可以討論的我真心希望說部長您現在好好的跟您的幕僚人員討論這個問題因為在歐洲在美國其實他的核電機組是可以運營到40至60年的那我們其實運營的時間只有他的一半所以我覺得這是值得討論的那另外喔台電產賠4千億是因為天然氣的價格提高這是他們所說的\n\n24\n00:08:41,644 --> 00:09:09,486\n那但是我們在一年前就已經回落到戰前的這個價格水平了但我們台電到目前為止還在繼續賠到底我們買了什麼樣子的天然氣合約是不是可以請部長調閱相關資料並公佈合約過去台電也被曾經傳出說購買的弊案那經濟部就曾經公佈這是有潛力的所以也請部長是不是能夠提供給本委員會相關的資料\n\n25\n00:09:11,909 --> 00:09:12,250\n張嘉郡議員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t2329\t主席我想請郭部長來請郭部長郭部長您的上任對產業界來說是非常振奮的消息過去8年來臺灣主管經濟的兩個部長都是從經濟部文官體系所上來的\n25854\t41947\t所以您的上任可以說是讓整個經濟部都有耳目一新的感覺大家都期待你有一個更務實更貼近民意的作為那上任到現在已經兩個禮拜了從產業界到政務官有什麼特別的感想嗎\n46484\t64190\t謝謝委員,這個時間可以說這個嗎?可以啊,可以啊。謝謝你,當然感想很多了。感想很多,很累嗎?有感覺累嗎?累是不會啦,但是平時我在公司是我問人家,然後我現在當公務人員是別人問我。\n66370\t93900\t您辛苦了但是本席特別要提醒您就是一定要注意一個東西那就是小動物你知道蛇、松鼠、鳥你知道為什麼要注意這些東西嗎因為這些小動物就是造成我們停電的主要原因未來部長一定要詳細的查明那對於台灣未來經濟的破壞您是少數能夠明確具體的提出一個方向的部長\n94560\t102183\t那您說未來靠AI伺服器跟AI晶片可以讓臺灣經濟再發展50年那加上這幾天有這個AI教父回答的創辦人黃仁詢引來旋風讓臺灣的AI產業可以說是一時成為最熱門的議題那對於AI產業的發展部長認為我們臺灣現在目前面臨最大的挑戰是什麼呢?\n119750\t144393\t我們現在面臨最大的挑戰就是熟悉AI這個領域的工程師太少我們只會生產AI晶片我們只會做這個AI伺服器但是如何利用AI的這個能力啊那麼這一方面的這個工程師太少所以他沒有辦法幫助我們百工百業我剛才在講說AI如果做得好\n145094\t145234\t：張嘉郡\n164937\t183681\t據本席所瞭解除了人才不足之外我們的用水用電的能源供應問題有也非常的迫切需要解決那據根據統計有AI伺服器的耗電量大約是傳統伺服器的3至20倍那在美國GPP每天要耗\n187782\t188523\t目前AI在臺灣的用電量大嗎?\n206311\t230907\t目前還不大目前還不大就是代表未來如果我們要大力發展AI產業就會面臨供電不一定跟得上的情況是嗎委員所說的是對的是那我想要請問部長每年假設這AI訓練跟AI資料中心的用電包括AI晶片的製造依照部長的規劃這兩項產業都蓬勃發展的話台灣每年耗電要增加幾個百分比\n236271\t237911\t法定人數不足\n241663\t269383\t沒關係 這個經濟部已經有預估答案本席已經拿到答案了預估每年會增加3%的用電那10年內要增加30%那據您之前參加媒體查敘時你有表達說用電是未來最大的變數就是未來AI可能尤其在2025年可能會有一個產業爆發期那我想要問部長的就是說這3%的預估值\n269923\t292621\t到底準不準確因為你看一下這是過去11年來的這個用電增加的這個數據那其實增加2.9增加4.7增加2.8其實這個用電說3%的預估我覺得有可能低估了有可能遠遠超過3%您覺得呢是不是有可能如果蓬勃發展的話那\n299642\t314085\t是的,3%的預估是根據過去的歷史記錄,平均1.8%,然後增加到3%所以有可能其實是會超過3%的,對不對?這個委員所指教的,可能會超過\n315256\t333311\t那部長知道說我們下一座要除役的機組是什麼時候要除役嗎就是核電的機組都知道今年7月27號就不到兩個月以後我們的核三廠的第1號機就要停止商轉了那再過一年明年的5月17號2號機也要停止商轉了\n336394\t337615\t這兩年來我們因為燒天然氣撥補了台電多少錢嗎\n366175\t370205\t部長,您知道我們總共這三年來撥補了台電多少錢嗎?\n371826\t372366\t您有沒有什麼看法要解決這個問題呢?\n401511\t419130\t這個目前我因為剛到才第18天所以我還沒有那麼多的時間可以去思考這個部分可能要拜託部長省慎的思考評估有沒有一個新的作為要來突破這個困難因為目前核能每度電是1.1元天然氣發電是他的3倍3.09元那這個\n422193\t431978\t在生能源的話更貴是5.47元那所以我也很好奇說為什麼我們不用便宜的乾淨的能源呢部長也會不會覺得很納悶呢這個問題我還在思考就是等於是說有沒有可能爭取核三研議呢如果核三研議可以為台灣再爭取兩次三年的空間部長有考慮過嗎\n450527\t472045\t現在河山的問題是我們都有考慮了不過因為河山基於這個法令的這個規範他一定要這個停議是可以修法其實經濟部也可以主動提修法經濟部有考慮說主動來提出修法嗎跟委員報告就是說他停下來再付大概要三年\n473288\t475150\t根據程序來講的話 那麼他一定要停3年以後才可以再上案\n494029\t517182\t這個是有機會可以討論的我真心希望說部長您現在好好的跟您的幕僚人員討論這個問題因為在歐洲在美國其實他的核電機組是可以運營到40至60年的那我們其實運營的時間只有他的一半所以我覺得這是值得討論的那另外喔台電產賠4千億是因為天然氣的價格提高這是他們所說的\n521644\t549486\t那但是我們在一年前就已經回落到戰前的這個價格水平了但我們台電到目前為止還在繼續賠到底我們買了什麼樣子的天然氣合約是不是可以請部長調閱相關資料並公佈合約過去台電也被曾經傳出說購買的弊案那經濟部就曾經公佈這是有潛力的所以也請部長是不是能夠提供給本委員會相關的資料\n551909\t552250\t張嘉郡議員\n","txt":"主席我想請郭部長來請郭部長郭部長您的上任對產業界來說是非常振奮的消息過去8年來臺灣主管經濟的兩個部長都是從經濟部文官體系所上來的\n所以您的上任可以說是讓整個經濟部都有耳目一新的感覺大家都期待你有一個更務實更貼近民意的作為那上任到現在已經兩個禮拜了從產業界到政務官有什麼特別的感想嗎\n謝謝委員,這個時間可以說這個嗎?可以啊,可以啊。謝謝你,當然感想很多了。感想很多,很累嗎?有感覺累嗎?累是不會啦,但是平時我在公司是我問人家,然後我現在當公務人員是別人問我。\n您辛苦了但是本席特別要提醒您就是一定要注意一個東西那就是小動物你知道蛇、松鼠、鳥你知道為什麼要注意這些東西嗎因為這些小動物就是造成我們停電的主要原因未來部長一定要詳細的查明那對於台灣未來經濟的破壞您是少數能夠明確具體的提出一個方向的部長\n那您說未來靠AI伺服器跟AI晶片可以讓臺灣經濟再發展50年那加上這幾天有這個AI教父回答的創辦人黃仁詢引來旋風讓臺灣的AI產業可以說是一時成為最熱門的議題那對於AI產業的發展部長認為我們臺灣現在目前面臨最大的挑戰是什麼呢?\n我們現在面臨最大的挑戰就是熟悉AI這個領域的工程師太少我們只會生產AI晶片我們只會做這個AI伺服器但是如何利用AI的這個能力啊那麼這一方面的這個工程師太少所以他沒有辦法幫助我們百工百業我剛才在講說AI如果做得好\n：張嘉郡\n據本席所瞭解除了人才不足之外我們的用水用電的能源供應問題有也非常的迫切需要解決那據根據統計有AI伺服器的耗電量大約是傳統伺服器的3至20倍那在美國GPP每天要耗\n目前AI在臺灣的用電量大嗎?\n目前還不大目前還不大就是代表未來如果我們要大力發展AI產業就會面臨供電不一定跟得上的情況是嗎委員所說的是對的是那我想要請問部長每年假設這AI訓練跟AI資料中心的用電包括AI晶片的製造依照部長的規劃這兩項產業都蓬勃發展的話台灣每年耗電要增加幾個百分比\n法定人數不足\n沒關係 這個經濟部已經有預估答案本席已經拿到答案了預估每年會增加3%的用電那10年內要增加30%那據您之前參加媒體查敘時你有表達說用電是未來最大的變數就是未來AI可能尤其在2025年可能會有一個產業爆發期那我想要問部長的就是說這3%的預估值\n到底準不準確因為你看一下這是過去11年來的這個用電增加的這個數據那其實增加2.9增加4.7增加2.8其實這個用電說3%的預估我覺得有可能低估了有可能遠遠超過3%您覺得呢是不是有可能如果蓬勃發展的話那\n是的,3%的預估是根據過去的歷史記錄,平均1.8%,然後增加到3%所以有可能其實是會超過3%的,對不對?這個委員所指教的,可能會超過\n那部長知道說我們下一座要除役的機組是什麼時候要除役嗎就是核電的機組都知道今年7月27號就不到兩個月以後我們的核三廠的第1號機就要停止商轉了那再過一年明年的5月17號2號機也要停止商轉了\n這兩年來我們因為燒天然氣撥補了台電多少錢嗎\n部長,您知道我們總共這三年來撥補了台電多少錢嗎?\n您有沒有什麼看法要解決這個問題呢?\n這個目前我因為剛到才第18天所以我還沒有那麼多的時間可以去思考這個部分可能要拜託部長省慎的思考評估有沒有一個新的作為要來突破這個困難因為目前核能每度電是1.1元天然氣發電是他的3倍3.09元那這個\n在生能源的話更貴是5.47元那所以我也很好奇說為什麼我們不用便宜的乾淨的能源呢部長也會不會覺得很納悶呢這個問題我還在思考就是等於是說有沒有可能爭取核三研議呢如果核三研議可以為台灣再爭取兩次三年的空間部長有考慮過嗎\n現在河山的問題是我們都有考慮了不過因為河山基於這個法令的這個規範他一定要這個停議是可以修法其實經濟部也可以主動提修法經濟部有考慮說主動來提出修法嗎跟委員報告就是說他停下來再付大概要三年\n根據程序來講的話 那麼他一定要停3年以後才可以再上案\n這個是有機會可以討論的我真心希望說部長您現在好好的跟您的幕僚人員討論這個問題因為在歐洲在美國其實他的核電機組是可以運營到40至60年的那我們其實運營的時間只有他的一半所以我覺得這是值得討論的那另外喔台電產賠4千億是因為天然氣的價格提高這是他們所說的\n那但是我們在一年前就已經回落到戰前的這個價格水平了但我們台電到目前為止還在繼續賠到底我們買了什麼樣子的天然氣合約是不是可以請部長調閱相關資料並公佈合約過去台電也被曾經傳出說購買的弊案那經濟部就曾經公佈這是有潛力的所以也請部長是不是能夠提供給本委員會相關的資料\n張嘉郡議員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.009 --> 00:02.329\n主席我想請郭部長來請郭部長郭部長您的上任對產業界來說是非常振奮的消息過去8年來臺灣主管經濟的兩個部長都是從經濟部文官體系所上來的\n\n00:25.854 --> 00:41.947\n所以您的上任可以說是讓整個經濟部都有耳目一新的感覺大家都期待你有一個更務實更貼近民意的作為那上任到現在已經兩個禮拜了從產業界到政務官有什麼特別的感想嗎\n\n00:46.484 --> 01:04.190\n謝謝委員,這個時間可以說這個嗎?可以啊,可以啊。謝謝你,當然感想很多了。感想很多,很累嗎?有感覺累嗎?累是不會啦,但是平時我在公司是我問人家,然後我現在當公務人員是別人問我。\n\n01:06.370 --> 01:33.900\n您辛苦了但是本席特別要提醒您就是一定要注意一個東西那就是小動物你知道蛇、松鼠、鳥你知道為什麼要注意這些東西嗎因為這些小動物就是造成我們停電的主要原因未來部長一定要詳細的查明那對於台灣未來經濟的破壞您是少數能夠明確具體的提出一個方向的部長\n\n01:34.560 --> 01:42.183\n那您說未來靠AI伺服器跟AI晶片可以讓臺灣經濟再發展50年那加上這幾天有這個AI教父回答的創辦人黃仁詢引來旋風讓臺灣的AI產業可以說是一時成為最熱門的議題那對於AI產業的發展部長認為我們臺灣現在目前面臨最大的挑戰是什麼呢?\n\n01:59.750 --> 02:24.393\n我們現在面臨最大的挑戰就是熟悉AI這個領域的工程師太少我們只會生產AI晶片我們只會做這個AI伺服器但是如何利用AI的這個能力啊那麼這一方面的這個工程師太少所以他沒有辦法幫助我們百工百業我剛才在講說AI如果做得好\n\n02:25.094 --> 02:25.234\n：張嘉郡\n\n02:44.937 --> 03:03.681\n據本席所瞭解除了人才不足之外我們的用水用電的能源供應問題有也非常的迫切需要解決那據根據統計有AI伺服器的耗電量大約是傳統伺服器的3至20倍那在美國GPP每天要耗\n\n03:07.782 --> 03:08.523\n目前AI在臺灣的用電量大嗎?\n\n03:26.311 --> 03:50.907\n目前還不大目前還不大就是代表未來如果我們要大力發展AI產業就會面臨供電不一定跟得上的情況是嗎委員所說的是對的是那我想要請問部長每年假設這AI訓練跟AI資料中心的用電包括AI晶片的製造依照部長的規劃這兩項產業都蓬勃發展的話台灣每年耗電要增加幾個百分比\n\n03:56.271 --> 03:57.911\n法定人數不足\n\n04:01.663 --> 04:29.383\n沒關係這個經濟部已經有預估答案本席已經拿到答案了預估每年會增加3%的用電那10年內要增加30%那據您之前參加媒體查敘時你有表達說用電是未來最大的變數就是未來AI可能尤其在2025年可能會有一個產業爆發期那我想要問部長的就是說這3%的預估值\n\n04:29.923 --> 04:52.621\n到底準不準確因為你看一下這是過去11年來的這個用電增加的這個數據那其實增加2.9增加4.7增加2.8其實這個用電說3%的預估我覺得有可能低估了有可能遠遠超過3%您覺得呢是不是有可能如果蓬勃發展的話那\n\n04:59.642 --> 05:14.085\n是的,3%的預估是根據過去的歷史記錄,平均1.8%,然後增加到3%所以有可能其實是會超過3%的,對不對?這個委員所指教的,可能會超過\n\n05:15.256 --> 05:33.311\n那部長知道說我們下一座要除役的機組是什麼時候要除役嗎就是核電的機組都知道今年7月27號就不到兩個月以後我們的核三廠的第1號機就要停止商轉了那再過一年明年的5月17號2號機也要停止商轉了\n\n05:36.394 --> 05:37.615\n這兩年來我們因為燒天然氣撥補了台電多少錢嗎\n\n06:06.175 --> 06:10.205\n部長,您知道我們總共這三年來撥補了台電多少錢嗎?\n\n06:11.826 --> 06:12.366\n您有沒有什麼看法要解決這個問題呢?\n\n06:41.511 --> 06:59.130\n這個目前我因為剛到才第18天所以我還沒有那麼多的時間可以去思考這個部分可能要拜託部長省慎的思考評估有沒有一個新的作為要來突破這個困難因為目前核能每度電是1.1元天然氣發電是他的3倍3.09元那這個\n\n07:02.193 --> 07:11.978\n在生能源的話更貴是5.47元那所以我也很好奇說為什麼我們不用便宜的乾淨的能源呢部長也會不會覺得很納悶呢這個問題我還在思考就是等於是說有沒有可能爭取核三研議呢如果核三研議可以為台灣再爭取兩次三年的空間部長有考慮過嗎\n\n07:30.527 --> 07:52.045\n現在河山的問題是我們都有考慮了不過因為河山基於這個法令的這個規範他一定要這個停議是可以修法其實經濟部也可以主動提修法經濟部有考慮說主動來提出修法嗎跟委員報告就是說他停下來再付大概要三年\n\n07:53.288 --> 07:55.150\n根據程序來講的話那麼他一定要停3年以後才可以再上案\n\n08:14.029 --> 08:37.182\n這個是有機會可以討論的我真心希望說部長您現在好好的跟您的幕僚人員討論這個問題因為在歐洲在美國其實他的核電機組是可以運營到40至60年的那我們其實運營的時間只有他的一半所以我覺得這是值得討論的那另外喔台電產賠4千億是因為天然氣的價格提高這是他們所說的\n\n08:41.644 --> 09:09.486\n那但是我們在一年前就已經回落到戰前的這個價格水平了但我們台電到目前為止還在繼續賠到底我們買了什麼樣子的天然氣合約是不是可以請部長調閱相關資料並公佈合約過去台電也被曾經傳出說購買的弊案那經濟部就曾經公佈這是有潛力的所以也請部長是不是能夠提供給本委員會相關的資料\n\n09:11.909 --> 09:12.250\n張嘉郡議員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":2.329,"text":"主席我想請郭部長來請郭部長郭部長您的上任對產業界來說是非常振奮的消息過去8年來臺灣主管經濟的兩個部長都是從經濟部文官體系所上來的"},{"start":25.854,"end":41.947,"text":"所以您的上任可以說是讓整個經濟部都有耳目一新的感覺大家都期待你有一個更務實更貼近民意的作為那上任到現在已經兩個禮拜了從產業界到政務官有什麼特別的感想嗎"},{"start":46.484,"end":64.19,"text":"謝謝委員,這個時間可以說這個嗎?可以啊,可以啊。謝謝你,當然感想很多了。感想很多,很累嗎?有感覺累嗎?累是不會啦,但是平時我在公司是我問人家,然後我現在當公務人員是別人問我。"},{"start":66.37,"end":93.9,"text":"您辛苦了但是本席特別要提醒您就是一定要注意一個東西那就是小動物你知道蛇、松鼠、鳥你知道為什麼要注意這些東西嗎因為這些小動物就是造成我們停電的主要原因未來部長一定要詳細的查明那對於台灣未來經濟的破壞您是少數能夠明確具體的提出一個方向的部長"},{"start":94.56,"end":102.183,"text":"那您說未來靠AI伺服器跟AI晶片可以讓臺灣經濟再發展50年那加上這幾天有這個AI教父回答的創辦人黃仁詢引來旋風讓臺灣的AI產業可以說是一時成為最熱門的議題那對於AI產業的發展部長認為我們臺灣現在目前面臨最大的挑戰是什麼呢?"},{"start":119.75,"end":144.393,"text":"我們現在面臨最大的挑戰就是熟悉AI這個領域的工程師太少我們只會生產AI晶片我們只會做這個AI伺服器但是如何利用AI的這個能力啊那麼這一方面的這個工程師太少所以他沒有辦法幫助我們百工百業我剛才在講說AI如果做得好"},{"start":145.094,"end":145.234,"text":"：張嘉郡"},{"start":164.937,"end":183.681,"text":"據本席所瞭解除了人才不足之外我們的用水用電的能源供應問題有也非常的迫切需要解決那據根據統計有AI伺服器的耗電量大約是傳統伺服器的3至20倍那在美國GPP每天要耗"},{"start":187.782,"end":188.523,"text":"目前AI在臺灣的用電量大嗎?"},{"start":206.311,"end":230.907,"text":"目前還不大目前還不大就是代表未來如果我們要大力發展AI產業就會面臨供電不一定跟得上的情況是嗎委員所說的是對的是那我想要請問部長每年假設這AI訓練跟AI資料中心的用電包括AI晶片的製造依照部長的規劃這兩項產業都蓬勃發展的話台灣每年耗電要增加幾個百分比"},{"start":236.271,"end":237.911,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":241.663,"end":269.383,"text":"沒關係 這個經濟部已經有預估答案本席已經拿到答案了預估每年會增加3%的用電那10年內要增加30%那據您之前參加媒體查敘時你有表達說用電是未來最大的變數就是未來AI可能尤其在2025年可能會有一個產業爆發期那我想要問部長的就是說這3%的預估值"},{"start":269.923,"end":292.621,"text":"到底準不準確因為你看一下這是過去11年來的這個用電增加的這個數據那其實增加2.9增加4.7增加2.8其實這個用電說3%的預估我覺得有可能低估了有可能遠遠超過3%您覺得呢是不是有可能如果蓬勃發展的話那"},{"start":299.642,"end":314.085,"text":"是的,3%的預估是根據過去的歷史記錄,平均1.8%,然後增加到3%所以有可能其實是會超過3%的,對不對?這個委員所指教的,可能會超過"},{"start":315.256,"end":333.311,"text":"那部長知道說我們下一座要除役的機組是什麼時候要除役嗎就是核電的機組都知道今年7月27號就不到兩個月以後我們的核三廠的第1號機就要停止商轉了那再過一年明年的5月17號2號機也要停止商轉了"},{"start":336.394,"end":337.615,"text":"這兩年來我們因為燒天然氣撥補了台電多少錢嗎"},{"start":366.175,"end":370.205,"text":"部長,您知道我們總共這三年來撥補了台電多少錢嗎?"},{"start":371.826,"end":372.366,"text":"您有沒有什麼看法要解決這個問題呢?"},{"start":401.511,"end":419.13,"text":"這個目前我因為剛到才第18天所以我還沒有那麼多的時間可以去思考這個部分可能要拜託部長省慎的思考評估有沒有一個新的作為要來突破這個困難因為目前核能每度電是1.1元天然氣發電是他的3倍3.09元那這個"},{"start":422.193,"end":431.978,"text":"在生能源的話更貴是5.47元那所以我也很好奇說為什麼我們不用便宜的乾淨的能源呢部長也會不會覺得很納悶呢這個問題我還在思考就是等於是說有沒有可能爭取核三研議呢如果核三研議可以為台灣再爭取兩次三年的空間部長有考慮過嗎"},{"start":450.527,"end":472.045,"text":"現在河山的問題是我們都有考慮了不過因為河山基於這個法令的這個規範他一定要這個停議是可以修法其實經濟部也可以主動提修法經濟部有考慮說主動來提出修法嗎跟委員報告就是說他停下來再付大概要三年"},{"start":473.288,"end":475.15,"text":"根據程序來講的話 那麼他一定要停3年以後才可以再上案"},{"start":494.029,"end":517.182,"text":"這個是有機會可以討論的我真心希望說部長您現在好好的跟您的幕僚人員討論這個問題因為在歐洲在美國其實他的核電機組是可以運營到40至60年的那我們其實運營的時間只有他的一半所以我覺得這是值得討論的那另外喔台電產賠4千億是因為天然氣的價格提高這是他們所說的"},{"start":521.644,"end":549.486,"text":"那但是我們在一年前就已經回落到戰前的這個價格水平了但我們台電到目前為止還在繼續賠到底我們買了什麼樣子的天然氣合約是不是可以請部長調閱相關資料並公佈合約過去台電也被曾經傳出說購買的弊案那經濟部就曾經公佈這是有潛力的所以也請部長是不是能夠提供給本委員會相關的資料"},{"start":551.909,"end":552.25,"text":"張嘉郡議員"}]}}}}