{"id":153607,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153607","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/18e54f584c581c983cae58f5af3b398f05d12856443da96911da973c502cee6278d6bc62b0328a145ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林宜瑾","委員發言時間":"11:18:34 - 11:29:35","影片長度":"00:11:01","會議時間":"2024-06-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文、數位發展部列席就「人工智慧(AI)推動現況與未來方向」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【6月5日及6日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-05","start_time":"2024-06-05T11:18:34+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-05T11:29:35+08:00","duration":661,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-15"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":720,"blocks":[["林委員宜瑾：（11時18分）替我請了，謝謝，還有數發部葉次長。"],["主席：還有數發部葉次長，謝謝。"],["吳主任委員誠文：召委好！"],["林委員宜瑾：主委好！我想會定這個題目最主要是真的AI應用的浪潮正在席捲全世界，特別是2022年11月OpenAI將ChatGPT開放給大眾使用之後，帶出了生成式AI的新序幕，更配合輝達的執行長黃仁勳來臺颳起一陣旋風，當然我想他的演講也讓我們臺灣有很多的啟發，特別他也強調，人工智慧和加速運算將重新定義未來。科技飛速帶來那麼的便利，可是同時我們要注意的是什麼？因為它會相伴著很多的風險及使用上的疑慮，還有我們各種法制作業所需的建構。","首先，想要用這個新聞來跟你探討生成式AI應用過程中合理使用的界線，還有智慧財產權保護的問題。今年4月復興商工校內美術展覽競賽，首獎作品事後被發現是AI生成的，有這個新聞，很多學者都有出面表示，AI的使用已經是勢在必行，那重點應該放在怎麼教育學生如何正確使用AI，創作屬於自己的作品，而且具備智慧財產權的概念。可是從這個事件我們可以看出，AI的應用會改變創作的原創性的定義，就是說，我們可以把AI視作一種工具，可是當然也可以同時把它視作是直接的產出，可是不論是寫作業、競賽創作或甄試作品，AI的應用過程跟結果應該如何規範，或者應該如何對人民盡到基本的素養教育，我想，國科會跟數位發展部責無旁貸。","我想要就教主委跟次長，剛剛很多委員也有就教這個問題，就是國科會在今年10月要提出AI基本法的草案，進行大方向性的規範，在那個之前，有人用來寫作業，或是參加競賽創作、製作參加甄試用的作品，我們如何通案性地界定合理使用的界線？我們應該要讓人民認知到，使用AI創作的時候要避免什麼樣的錯誤觀念？主委。"],["吳主任委員誠文：這一部分我們都會把它放到裡面，也就是說，第一，目前法律有規範的基本的權利，比如說：人格權，這些都會放進去。"],["林委員宜瑾：是。那是10月發表AI基本法的時候，可是在這之前我們怎麼樣去規範？或怎麼樣去定義那個合理使用的界線？"],["吳主任委員誠文：目前是各部會依照AI的指引，我們希望大家儘快在法律還沒有制定之前先有一些指引可以依循，然後我們的產業界及所有的AI使用者能夠依循這個指引，他們就不會太濫用AI的能力去做一些不合適的事情。"],["林委員宜瑾：好。那也請次長回答我這個問題，我們要怎麼樣去界定這個界線？"],["葉次長寧：首先跟委員報告，有關智慧財產權的部分，經濟部有智慧財產局，他們主管著作權、專利法以及商標法，所以有關於是不是涉及著作權的問題，可能最後要以智慧財產局的說法為準。的確，委員所說的沒有錯，在這部分有一些法律上的爭議，譬如說AI所生成的算不算是一種著作物，以及著作人是不是這個應用AI的人，這是有爭議的。而且很多學者也都說，以AI生成不太能夠把製作者當著作人來看待，或者是以著作物來看待，這個國際上還在討論。據我所知，智慧局也在根據國際的趨勢做進一步的研究，如果有需要的話，他們會修改著作權法相關的規定，做更詳細的規定，或者是由智慧局來發布解釋函令，才會更精確，那當然也要看法院的見解。"],["林委員宜瑾：因為智慧財產局其實在去年6月就表示說AI是利用人，如係單純下指令，智財局覺得並未投入精神的創作；由生成AI模型獨立自主運算而生成的全新內容，他們覺得該AI的生成內容不受著作權法的保障。我們從剛剛我講的那個新聞事件一併來看的話，有關AI創作的智慧財產權的保護，它的內容不曉得會是如何，那保護的範圍會到哪裡？因為這個當然攸關產業發展，在智財權上如何被保護？我當然認為這是應該加以關心的一個面向，關於這部分，剛剛次長跟主委也有提到一些想法，那我還是期待這部分要更完備地去做一些周延的規劃。","另外，我想再提起的就是，美國的人工智慧研究實驗室OpenAI在上個月底有發布一個報告，探討人工智慧工具如何被用於秘密影響力的這個行動，這份報告指出，中國、伊朗、俄羅斯、以色列等國的組織都利用OpenAI工具創造假訊息，並在社群媒體上發布，剛剛有很多委員有提及這件事。另外，瑞典的大學也有研究說，臺灣已經連續11年是受境外假訊息攻擊最嚴重的國家，所以可見AI假訊息的資訊攻擊會是全球各國提升防衛意識的重要目標，特別是臺灣。本席知道數發部在上個月就有說要規劃設立打詐通報查詢網，剛剛也有很多委員說到，就是利用AI對抗AI假訊息，可是在臺灣受到假訊息嚴重的侵擾之下，有關於對抗AI假訊息的這個問題，你們目前有什麼具體的解決手段？還有國科會如何跟數發部合作？除了力抗假訊息的詐騙以外，對於國安的不實訊息有什麼樣防範的做法？"],["葉次長寧：跟委員報告，如委員所說的，我們現在AI技術所產生的詐騙訊息或假訊息，在技術上面的確會越來越難辨真偽，數發部有兩個方案，第一個是溯源，我們要讓民眾能夠非常簡單地知道這個來源是可靠的，包括簡訊的部分，我們政府部門已經使用「111」，如果看到政府部門發來的訊息開頭不是「111」可能就是有問題。將來我們也進一步推商用簡碼，我們跟電信公司合作，基本上沒有詐騙集團使用簡碼的可能性，這是第一件事情。","第二件事情，剛才委員也提到了，我們會努力來建立詐騙查詢通報網，讓民眾能夠根據相關資訊很快地找到答案、查出是不是詐騙的案例，這個當然要透過AI的技術來掃描及辨識，這個我們會努力來做。"],["林委員宜瑾：好。"],["吳主任委員誠文：國科會會資助數位部來做這個事情，科技預算的編列我們會支持。","第二個就是人力，我們在各大學的研究人力除了將來進到各行各業，各大學的研究有關於AI應用在防止詐騙、防止假訊息的研究上面，我們也會資助學界進行研究，提供一些後勤的資源給數位部來應用。"],["林委員宜瑾：好。","最後我想要提醒一下，國科會開發TAIDE這個生成式AI的對話引擎，我們現在就是要灌入很多素材，用繁體中文的資料，要如何讓它的內容符合臺灣文化跟臺灣的價值觀變成很重要，重點是不能讓歧視跟具有偏見的回答內容出現在這個對話引擎的應用上，現在臺灣社會還是有很多的歧視跟具有偏見的言論層出不窮，我們不希望這樣的情形出現在人工智慧的對話引擎中，我們也要建議這個歧視的內容要完全杜絕，如果出現文化上的差異，至少要併陳回答或交代脈絡。我舉例來說，假設我們想要使用一個AI的對話引擎生成一張具臺灣婚禮特色的圖片，可是什麼叫做具臺灣婚禮的特色？光是原住民族就有很大的差異，所以如果只讓AI生成一張或一種具臺灣特色的婚禮圖片，那我想這個可能就不夠，所以我的意思是說，某個程度也代表我們對於臺灣本土文化的一種偏見。所以我要提醒你要多加留意，對於我們的多元文化跟具有偏見及歧視的內容，是不是要有一些關照？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。謝謝委員。"],["林委員宜瑾：我們在做TAIDE的時候往這個方面來修正。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，避免歧視與偏見也是我們非常努力要做的事，沒有錯。"],["林委員宜瑾：好，OK。"],["吳主任委員誠文：謝謝委員。"],["林委員宜瑾：好。謝謝主委，謝謝次長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝主委，主委請回。"],["主席（林委員宜瑾）：好，下一位我們請柯志恩召委。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":206,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-15","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","萬美玲","葉元之","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","羅廷瑋","張雅琳","葛如鈞","柯志恩","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","范雲","翁曉玲","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","吳春城","李柏毅","鍾佳濱","林倩綺","牛煦庭"],"page_start":143,"meetingDate":["2024-06-05"],"gazette_id":"1135902","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135902_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文、數位發展部列席就「人工智慧 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{\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 655.315, \"end\": 655.335, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 655.335, \"end\": 655.395, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 655.395, \"end\": 655.455, \"score\": 0.622}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 655.455, \"end\": 655.475, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 655.475, \"end\": 655.575, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 655.575, \"end\": 655.595, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,830 --> 00:00:03,231\n主委聽我請了謝謝還有葉次長、蘇發布謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:11,262 --> 00:00:37,552\n主委好我想會定這個題目最主要是真的是AI應用的浪潮正在席捲全世界特別是2022年11月這個OpenAI將這個CHAPGPT開放給大眾使用之後帶出了這個生成式AI的新序幕那我想用\n\n3\n00:00:38,092 --> 00:00:42,954\n更配合這個回答的執行長黃仁勳來台．加起一陣旋風當然我想他的演講也讓我們台灣有很多的啟發特別他也強調人工智慧和加速運算將重新定義未來\n\n4\n00:00:58,461 --> 00:01:07,648\n科技飛速帶來那麼的便利可是這個同時我們要注意的是什麼因為它會相伴著很多的風險跟使用上的疑慮還有我們各種法制作業所需的建構首先想要跟你用這個新聞來跟你探討這個生成式AI應用過程中合理使用的界限\n\n5\n00:01:23,098 --> 00:01:26,720\n還有這個智慧財產權保護的問題這個就是那個今年4月復興商工的校內的美術展覽的競賽然後首獎的作品遭事後發現說他是AI生成的有這個新聞那很多的學者都有出面表示說AI的使用已經是勢在必行那重點應該放在說怎麼教育學生如何正確的使用AI\n\n6\n00:01:51,733 --> 00:02:13,612\n所以創作屬於自己的作品而且具備所謂的財產智慧權的概念可是從這個事件來我們可以看出說AI的應用會改變創作的原創性的定義就是說我們可以把AI視作一種工具可是當然也可以同時把它視作是直接的產出\n\n7\n00:02:14,813 --> 00:02:34,780\n但是無論是寫作業也好競賽創作也好或真是作品AI的應用過程跟結果就應該如何規範或者應該如何對人民進到基本的素養教育我想國科會跟數位發展部責無旁貸\n\n8\n00:02:38,795 --> 00:02:59,906\n想要就教主委跟次長就是說除了國科會在今年我們要10月嘛剛剛很多委員都有就教就是要提出AI基本法的草案進行這個大方向性的規範那在那個之前我們寫作業也好或者競賽創作正式作品的面向我們如何通案性的界定\n\n9\n00:03:00,586 --> 00:03:03,207\n主席主席主席主席\n\n10\n00:03:30,515 --> 00:03:55,288\n目前我們是各部會依照這個指引我們這個AI的指引希望大家盡快先在法律還沒有制定之前先有一些指引可以依循然後我們的產業界我們的這個所有的AI的使用者能夠有這個指引他就不會去太濫用這個AI的能力去做一些不合適的事情\n\n11\n00:03:56,809 --> 00:04:24,746\n請市長回答我這個問題就是說我們要怎麼樣去界定這個界限首先跟委員報告有關智慧財產權的部分那它經濟部有所謂智慧財產局那他們來主管著作權、專利法以及商標法所以有關於它是不是著作權的問題可能最後要以這個智慧財產局的說法為準那的確委員所說的沒有錯在這部分有一些法律上的爭議譬如說AI所生成的算不算是一種著作物\n\n12\n00:04:25,126 --> 00:04:37,881\n以及他著作人是不是應用AI的人這是有爭議的而且很多的學者也都說以AI生成不太能夠把它當作著作人來看待或著作物來看待那這個當然國際上還在討論據我所知智慧局也在根據國際的歧視在做進一步的研究\n\n13\n00:04:43,687 --> 00:05:13,127\n如果有需要的話．他會修改著作權法的規定來做更詳細．或是由智慧局來發布解釋函令．才會更不得精確當然也要看法院的見解因為智慧財產局其實在去年6月．他就表示說AI是利用人如戲單純下指令．他覺得並未投入精神的創作由生成AI模型獨立自助運算而生成的所謂的全新的內容．他覺得該AI的生成內容．\n\n14\n00:05:13,387 --> 00:05:14,287\n主席林宜瑾林宜瑾\n\n15\n00:05:39,575 --> 00:05:59,012\n當然這部分剛剛次長跟部長跟主委也有提到一些想法但我還是期待說在這部分要更完備的去做一些周延的規劃另外我想再提幾個就是說美國人工的智慧研究實驗室\n\n16\n00:06:00,513 --> 00:06:20,821\n他在上個月底有發布一個報告他就探討說人工智慧工具如何被用於秘密影響力的這個行動那這份報告有指出說中國、伊朗、俄羅斯、以色列他們的組織都利用openAI工具創造假訊息剛剛有很多委員有提及\n\n17\n00:06:21,021 --> 00:06:44,152\n提及並在社群媒體上發布另外瑞典的大學也有研究說臺灣已經是連續11年受境外假訊息攻擊最嚴重的國家所以可見AI假訊息的資訊攻擊會是我們全球各國特別是臺灣我們要提升防衛意識的很重要的一個目標\n\n18\n00:06:46,496 --> 00:06:53,902\n本席知道說我們速發布在上個月我們就有說要規劃設立所謂剛剛也有很多委員說就是所謂的打詐通報查詢網那利用這個AI對抗AI假訊息那可是在台灣嚴重受到假訊息嚴重的侵擾之下這個有關於AI假訊息的對抗的這個問題不曉得你們目前有什麼具體的解決手段\n\n19\n00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:29,215\n國科會如何跟訴發部合作?除了力抗假訊息的詐騙以外對於所謂的國安不死的訊息有什麼樣防範的做法?\n\n20\n00:07:32,014 --> 00:07:49,234\n跟委員報告,如委員所說的就是說我們現在AI技術所產生的不管是詐騙訊息或假訊息的確在技術上面會越來越難辯證為那數法部有兩個方案來進行第一個是溯源那我們要讓民眾非常能夠簡單的知道說這個來源是可靠的\n\n21\n00:07:49,774 --> 00:08:08,719\n包括簡訊的部分我們政府部門已經使用11如果看到政府部門的來的訊息不是這個11那可能就是有問題那將來我們會進一步推所謂商用檢碼在檢碼上面來源我們跟電信公司合作基本上面沒有詐騙集團使用檢碼的可能性這是第一件事情\n\n22\n00:08:09,279 --> 00:08:25,664\n第二件事情就是說剛剛委員也提到就是我們會努力來建立所謂的詐騙的查詢通報網讓民眾能夠將相關資訊能夠很快的能夠再找到答案說它是不是一個詐騙的案例那這個當然要透過AI技術來掃描以及這個辨識那這個我們會努力來做\n\n23\n00:08:29,605 --> 00:08:29,825\n好,好\n\n24\n00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:14,578\n最後我想提醒一下,我們國科會會開發Tide生成性的AI對話引擎當然現在我們要灌入很多的素材給它用繁體中文的資料\n\n25\n00:09:16,460 --> 00:09:22,763\n關於如何符合台灣文化與台灣價值觀的內容我想這個變成很重要那重點是不能讓歧視與具有偏見的回答內容出現在對話引擎的應用上\n\n26\n00:09:33,847 --> 00:09:50,638\n當然現在台灣社會還是很有很多歧視跟具有偏見的言論層出不窮我們不希望這樣的情形出現在這個人工智慧的對話引擎中我們也要建議說這個歧視的內容要完全杜絕如果它出現文化上的差異至少要併成回答\n\n27\n00:09:55,021 --> 00:10:22,743\n獲交代脈絡我舉例來說假設我們要使用一個AI的對話引擎想要生成一張具台灣婚禮特色的圖片可是什麼叫做具台灣婚禮的特色光援助民族就有很大的差異所以你如果只讓AI生成一張或一種所謂的台灣特色的婚禮我想這個可能就\n\n28\n00:10:23,404 --> 00:10:24,884\n謝謝委員我們在做這個態度的時候\n\n29\n00:10:51,610 --> 00:10:55,595\n避免歧視與偏見,這也是我們非常努力要做的事。好,OK。謝謝委員。謝謝主委、謝謝次長、謝謝主席。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n830\t3231\t主委 聽我請了 謝謝還有葉次長、蘇發布 謝謝\n11262\t37552\t主委好我想會定這個題目最主要是真的是AI應用的浪潮正在席捲全世界特別是2022年11月這個OpenAI將這個CHAP GPT開放給大眾使用之後帶出了這個生成式AI的新序幕那我想用\n38092\t42954\t更配合這個回答的執行長黃仁勳來台．加起一陣旋風當然我想他的演講也讓我們台灣有很多的啟發特別他也強調人工智慧和加速運算將重新定義未來\n58461\t67648\t科技飛速帶來那麼的便利可是這個同時我們要注意的是什麼因為它會相伴著很多的風險跟使用上的疑慮還有我們各種法制作業所需的建構首先想要跟你用這個新聞來跟你探討這個生成式AI應用過程中合理使用的界限\n83098\t86720\t還有這個智慧財產權保護的問題這個就是那個今年4月復興商工的校內的美術展覽的競賽然後首獎的作品遭事後發現說他是AI生成的有這個新聞那很多的學者都有出面表示說AI的使用已經是勢在必行那重點應該放在說怎麼教育學生如何正確的使用AI\n111733\t133612\t所以創作屬於自己的作品而且具備所謂的財產智慧權的概念可是從這個事件來我們可以看出說AI的應用會改變創作的原創性的定義就是說我們可以把AI視作一種工具可是當然也可以同時把它視作是直接的產出\n134813\t154780\t但是無論是寫作業也好競賽創作也好或真是作品AI的應用過程跟結果就應該如何規範或者應該如何對人民進到基本的素養教育我想國科會跟數位發展部責無旁貸\n158795\t179906\t想要就教主委跟次長就是說除了國科會在今年我們要10月嘛剛剛很多委員都有就教就是要提出AI基本法的草案進行這個大方向性的規範那在那個之前我們寫作業也好或者競賽創作正式作品的面向我們如何通案性的界定\n180586\t183207\t主席主席主席主席\n210515\t235288\t目前我們是各部會依照這個指引我們這個AI的指引希望大家盡快先在法律還沒有制定之前先有一些指引可以依循然後我們的產業界我們的這個所有的AI的使用者能夠有這個指引他就不會去太濫用這個AI的能力去做一些不合適的事情\n236809\t264746\t請市長回答我這個問題就是說我們要怎麼樣去界定這個界限首先跟委員報告有關智慧財產權的部分那它經濟部有所謂智慧財產局那他們來主管著作權、專利法以及商標法所以有關於它是不是著作權的問題可能最後要以這個智慧財產局的說法為準那的確委員所說的沒有錯在這部分有一些法律上的爭議譬如說AI所生成的算不算是一種著作物\n265126\t277881\t以及他著作人是不是應用AI的人這是有爭議的而且很多的學者也都說以AI生成不太能夠把它當作著作人來看待或著作物來看待那這個當然國際上還在討論據我所知智慧局也在根據國際的歧視在做進一步的研究\n283687\t313127\t如果有需要的話．他會修改著作權法的規定來做更詳細．或是由智慧局來發布解釋函令．才會更不得精確當然也要看法院的見解因為智慧財產局其實在去年6月．他就表示說AI是利用人如戲單純下指令．他覺得並未投入精神的創作由生成AI模型獨立自助運算而生成的所謂的全新的內容．他覺得該AI的生成內容．\n313387\t314287\t主席 林宜瑾 林宜瑾\n339575\t359012\t當然這部分剛剛次長跟部長跟主委也有提到一些想法但我還是期待說在這部分要更完備的去做一些周延的規劃另外我想再提幾個就是說美國人工的智慧研究實驗室\n360513\t380821\t他在上個月底有發布一個報告他就探討說人工智慧工具如何被用於秘密影響力的這個行動那這份報告有指出說中國、伊朗、俄羅斯、以色列他們的組織都利用open AI工具創造假訊息剛剛有很多委員有提及\n381021\t404152\t提及並在社群媒體上發布另外瑞典的大學也有研究說臺灣已經是連續11年受境外假訊息攻擊最嚴重的國家所以可見AI假訊息的資訊攻擊會是我們全球各國特別是臺灣我們要提升防衛意識的很重要的一個目標\n406496\t413902\t本席知道說我們速發布在上個月我們就有說要規劃設立所謂剛剛也有很多委員說就是所謂的打詐通報查詢網那利用這個AI對抗AI假訊息那可是在台灣嚴重受到假訊息嚴重的侵擾之下這個有關於AI假訊息的對抗的這個問題不曉得你們目前有什麼具體的解決手段\n434400\t449215\t國科會如何跟訴發部合作?除了力抗假訊息的詐騙以外對於所謂的國安不死的訊息有什麼樣防範的做法?\n452014\t469234\t跟委員報告,如委員所說的就是說我們現在AI技術所產生的不管是詐騙訊息或假訊息的確在技術上面會越來越難辯證為那數法部有兩個方案來進行第一個是溯源那我們要讓民眾非常能夠簡單的知道說這個來源是可靠的\n469774\t488719\t包括簡訊的部分我們政府部門已經使用11如果看到政府部門的來的訊息不是這個11那可能就是有問題那將來我們會進一步推所謂商用檢碼在檢碼上面來源我們跟電信公司合作基本上面沒有詐騙集團使用檢碼的可能性這是第一件事情\n489279\t505664\t第二件事情就是說剛剛委員也提到就是我們會努力來建立所謂的詐騙的查詢通報網讓民眾能夠將相關資訊能夠很快的能夠再找到答案說它是不是一個詐騙的案例那這個當然要透過AI技術來掃描以及這個辨識那這個我們會努力來做\n509605\t509825\t好,好\n539640\t554578\t最後我想提醒一下,我們國科會會開發Tide生成性的AI對話引擎當然現在我們要灌入很多的素材給它用繁體中文的資料\n556460\t562763\t關於如何符合台灣文化與台灣價值觀的內容我想這個變成很重要那重點是不能讓歧視與具有偏見的回答內容出現在對話引擎的應用上\n573847\t590638\t當然現在台灣社會還是很有很多歧視跟具有偏見的言論層出不窮我們不希望這樣的情形出現在這個人工智慧的對話引擎中我們也要建議說這個歧視的內容要完全杜絕如果它出現文化上的差異至少要併成回答\n595021\t622743\t獲交代脈絡我舉例來說假設我們要使用一個AI的對話引擎想要生成一張具台灣婚禮特色的圖片可是什麼叫做具台灣婚禮的特色光援助民族就有很大的差異所以你如果只讓AI生成一張或一種所謂的台灣特色的婚禮我想這個可能就\n623404\t624884\t謝謝委員我們在做這個態度的時候\n651610\t655595\t避免歧視與偏見,這也是我們非常努力要做的事。好,OK。謝謝委員。謝謝主委、謝謝次長、謝謝主席。\n","txt":"主委 聽我請了 謝謝還有葉次長、蘇發布 謝謝\n主委好我想會定這個題目最主要是真的是AI應用的浪潮正在席捲全世界特別是2022年11月這個OpenAI將這個CHAP GPT開放給大眾使用之後帶出了這個生成式AI的新序幕那我想用\n更配合這個回答的執行長黃仁勳來台．加起一陣旋風當然我想他的演講也讓我們台灣有很多的啟發特別他也強調人工智慧和加速運算將重新定義未來\n科技飛速帶來那麼的便利可是這個同時我們要注意的是什麼因為它會相伴著很多的風險跟使用上的疑慮還有我們各種法制作業所需的建構首先想要跟你用這個新聞來跟你探討這個生成式AI應用過程中合理使用的界限\n還有這個智慧財產權保護的問題這個就是那個今年4月復興商工的校內的美術展覽的競賽然後首獎的作品遭事後發現說他是AI生成的有這個新聞那很多的學者都有出面表示說AI的使用已經是勢在必行那重點應該放在說怎麼教育學生如何正確的使用AI\n所以創作屬於自己的作品而且具備所謂的財產智慧權的概念可是從這個事件來我們可以看出說AI的應用會改變創作的原創性的定義就是說我們可以把AI視作一種工具可是當然也可以同時把它視作是直接的產出\n但是無論是寫作業也好競賽創作也好或真是作品AI的應用過程跟結果就應該如何規範或者應該如何對人民進到基本的素養教育我想國科會跟數位發展部責無旁貸\n想要就教主委跟次長就是說除了國科會在今年我們要10月嘛剛剛很多委員都有就教就是要提出AI基本法的草案進行這個大方向性的規範那在那個之前我們寫作業也好或者競賽創作正式作品的面向我們如何通案性的界定\n主席主席主席主席\n目前我們是各部會依照這個指引我們這個AI的指引希望大家盡快先在法律還沒有制定之前先有一些指引可以依循然後我們的產業界我們的這個所有的AI的使用者能夠有這個指引他就不會去太濫用這個AI的能力去做一些不合適的事情\n請市長回答我這個問題就是說我們要怎麼樣去界定這個界限首先跟委員報告有關智慧財產權的部分那它經濟部有所謂智慧財產局那他們來主管著作權、專利法以及商標法所以有關於它是不是著作權的問題可能最後要以這個智慧財產局的說法為準那的確委員所說的沒有錯在這部分有一些法律上的爭議譬如說AI所生成的算不算是一種著作物\n以及他著作人是不是應用AI的人這是有爭議的而且很多的學者也都說以AI生成不太能夠把它當作著作人來看待或著作物來看待那這個當然國際上還在討論據我所知智慧局也在根據國際的歧視在做進一步的研究\n如果有需要的話．他會修改著作權法的規定來做更詳細．或是由智慧局來發布解釋函令．才會更不得精確當然也要看法院的見解因為智慧財產局其實在去年6月．他就表示說AI是利用人如戲單純下指令．他覺得並未投入精神的創作由生成AI模型獨立自助運算而生成的所謂的全新的內容．他覺得該AI的生成內容．\n主席 林宜瑾 林宜瑾\n當然這部分剛剛次長跟部長跟主委也有提到一些想法但我還是期待說在這部分要更完備的去做一些周延的規劃另外我想再提幾個就是說美國人工的智慧研究實驗室\n他在上個月底有發布一個報告他就探討說人工智慧工具如何被用於秘密影響力的這個行動那這份報告有指出說中國、伊朗、俄羅斯、以色列他們的組織都利用open AI工具創造假訊息剛剛有很多委員有提及\n提及並在社群媒體上發布另外瑞典的大學也有研究說臺灣已經是連續11年受境外假訊息攻擊最嚴重的國家所以可見AI假訊息的資訊攻擊會是我們全球各國特別是臺灣我們要提升防衛意識的很重要的一個目標\n本席知道說我們速發布在上個月我們就有說要規劃設立所謂剛剛也有很多委員說就是所謂的打詐通報查詢網那利用這個AI對抗AI假訊息那可是在台灣嚴重受到假訊息嚴重的侵擾之下這個有關於AI假訊息的對抗的這個問題不曉得你們目前有什麼具體的解決手段\n國科會如何跟訴發部合作?除了力抗假訊息的詐騙以外對於所謂的國安不死的訊息有什麼樣防範的做法?\n跟委員報告,如委員所說的就是說我們現在AI技術所產生的不管是詐騙訊息或假訊息的確在技術上面會越來越難辯證為那數法部有兩個方案來進行第一個是溯源那我們要讓民眾非常能夠簡單的知道說這個來源是可靠的\n包括簡訊的部分我們政府部門已經使用11如果看到政府部門的來的訊息不是這個11那可能就是有問題那將來我們會進一步推所謂商用檢碼在檢碼上面來源我們跟電信公司合作基本上面沒有詐騙集團使用檢碼的可能性這是第一件事情\n第二件事情就是說剛剛委員也提到就是我們會努力來建立所謂的詐騙的查詢通報網讓民眾能夠將相關資訊能夠很快的能夠再找到答案說它是不是一個詐騙的案例那這個當然要透過AI技術來掃描以及這個辨識那這個我們會努力來做\n好,好\n最後我想提醒一下,我們國科會會開發Tide生成性的AI對話引擎當然現在我們要灌入很多的素材給它用繁體中文的資料\n關於如何符合台灣文化與台灣價值觀的內容我想這個變成很重要那重點是不能讓歧視與具有偏見的回答內容出現在對話引擎的應用上\n當然現在台灣社會還是很有很多歧視跟具有偏見的言論層出不窮我們不希望這樣的情形出現在這個人工智慧的對話引擎中我們也要建議說這個歧視的內容要完全杜絕如果它出現文化上的差異至少要併成回答\n獲交代脈絡我舉例來說假設我們要使用一個AI的對話引擎想要生成一張具台灣婚禮特色的圖片可是什麼叫做具台灣婚禮的特色光援助民族就有很大的差異所以你如果只讓AI生成一張或一種所謂的台灣特色的婚禮我想這個可能就\n謝謝委員我們在做這個態度的時候\n避免歧視與偏見,這也是我們非常努力要做的事。好,OK。謝謝委員。謝謝主委、謝謝次長、謝謝主席。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.830 --> 00:03.231\n主委聽我請了謝謝還有葉次長、蘇發布謝謝\n\n00:11.262 --> 00:37.552\n主委好我想會定這個題目最主要是真的是AI應用的浪潮正在席捲全世界特別是2022年11月這個OpenAI將這個CHAPGPT開放給大眾使用之後帶出了這個生成式AI的新序幕那我想用\n\n00:38.092 --> 00:42.954\n更配合這個回答的執行長黃仁勳來台．加起一陣旋風當然我想他的演講也讓我們台灣有很多的啟發特別他也強調人工智慧和加速運算將重新定義未來\n\n00:58.461 --> 01:07.648\n科技飛速帶來那麼的便利可是這個同時我們要注意的是什麼因為它會相伴著很多的風險跟使用上的疑慮還有我們各種法制作業所需的建構首先想要跟你用這個新聞來跟你探討這個生成式AI應用過程中合理使用的界限\n\n01:23.098 --> 01:26.720\n還有這個智慧財產權保護的問題這個就是那個今年4月復興商工的校內的美術展覽的競賽然後首獎的作品遭事後發現說他是AI生成的有這個新聞那很多的學者都有出面表示說AI的使用已經是勢在必行那重點應該放在說怎麼教育學生如何正確的使用AI\n\n01:51.733 --> 02:13.612\n所以創作屬於自己的作品而且具備所謂的財產智慧權的概念可是從這個事件來我們可以看出說AI的應用會改變創作的原創性的定義就是說我們可以把AI視作一種工具可是當然也可以同時把它視作是直接的產出\n\n02:14.813 --> 02:34.780\n但是無論是寫作業也好競賽創作也好或真是作品AI的應用過程跟結果就應該如何規範或者應該如何對人民進到基本的素養教育我想國科會跟數位發展部責無旁貸\n\n02:38.795 --> 02:59.906\n想要就教主委跟次長就是說除了國科會在今年我們要10月嘛剛剛很多委員都有就教就是要提出AI基本法的草案進行這個大方向性的規範那在那個之前我們寫作業也好或者競賽創作正式作品的面向我們如何通案性的界定\n\n03:00.586 --> 03:03.207\n主席主席主席主席\n\n03:30.515 --> 03:55.288\n目前我們是各部會依照這個指引我們這個AI的指引希望大家盡快先在法律還沒有制定之前先有一些指引可以依循然後我們的產業界我們的這個所有的AI的使用者能夠有這個指引他就不會去太濫用這個AI的能力去做一些不合適的事情\n\n03:56.809 --> 04:24.746\n請市長回答我這個問題就是說我們要怎麼樣去界定這個界限首先跟委員報告有關智慧財產權的部分那它經濟部有所謂智慧財產局那他們來主管著作權、專利法以及商標法所以有關於它是不是著作權的問題可能最後要以這個智慧財產局的說法為準那的確委員所說的沒有錯在這部分有一些法律上的爭議譬如說AI所生成的算不算是一種著作物\n\n04:25.126 --> 04:37.881\n以及他著作人是不是應用AI的人這是有爭議的而且很多的學者也都說以AI生成不太能夠把它當作著作人來看待或著作物來看待那這個當然國際上還在討論據我所知智慧局也在根據國際的歧視在做進一步的研究\n\n04:43.687 --> 05:13.127\n如果有需要的話．他會修改著作權法的規定來做更詳細．或是由智慧局來發布解釋函令．才會更不得精確當然也要看法院的見解因為智慧財產局其實在去年6月．他就表示說AI是利用人如戲單純下指令．他覺得並未投入精神的創作由生成AI模型獨立自助運算而生成的所謂的全新的內容．他覺得該AI的生成內容．\n\n05:13.387 --> 05:14.287\n主席林宜瑾林宜瑾\n\n05:39.575 --> 05:59.012\n當然這部分剛剛次長跟部長跟主委也有提到一些想法但我還是期待說在這部分要更完備的去做一些周延的規劃另外我想再提幾個就是說美國人工的智慧研究實驗室\n\n06:00.513 --> 06:20.821\n他在上個月底有發布一個報告他就探討說人工智慧工具如何被用於秘密影響力的這個行動那這份報告有指出說中國、伊朗、俄羅斯、以色列他們的組織都利用openAI工具創造假訊息剛剛有很多委員有提及\n\n06:21.021 --> 06:44.152\n提及並在社群媒體上發布另外瑞典的大學也有研究說臺灣已經是連續11年受境外假訊息攻擊最嚴重的國家所以可見AI假訊息的資訊攻擊會是我們全球各國特別是臺灣我們要提升防衛意識的很重要的一個目標\n\n06:46.496 --> 06:53.902\n本席知道說我們速發布在上個月我們就有說要規劃設立所謂剛剛也有很多委員說就是所謂的打詐通報查詢網那利用這個AI對抗AI假訊息那可是在台灣嚴重受到假訊息嚴重的侵擾之下這個有關於AI假訊息的對抗的這個問題不曉得你們目前有什麼具體的解決手段\n\n07:14.400 --> 07:29.215\n國科會如何跟訴發部合作?除了力抗假訊息的詐騙以外對於所謂的國安不死的訊息有什麼樣防範的做法?\n\n07:32.014 --> 07:49.234\n跟委員報告,如委員所說的就是說我們現在AI技術所產生的不管是詐騙訊息或假訊息的確在技術上面會越來越難辯證為那數法部有兩個方案來進行第一個是溯源那我們要讓民眾非常能夠簡單的知道說這個來源是可靠的\n\n07:49.774 --> 08:08.719\n包括簡訊的部分我們政府部門已經使用11如果看到政府部門的來的訊息不是這個11那可能就是有問題那將來我們會進一步推所謂商用檢碼在檢碼上面來源我們跟電信公司合作基本上面沒有詐騙集團使用檢碼的可能性這是第一件事情\n\n08:09.279 --> 08:25.664\n第二件事情就是說剛剛委員也提到就是我們會努力來建立所謂的詐騙的查詢通報網讓民眾能夠將相關資訊能夠很快的能夠再找到答案說它是不是一個詐騙的案例那這個當然要透過AI技術來掃描以及這個辨識那這個我們會努力來做\n\n08:29.605 --> 08:29.825\n好,好\n\n08:59.640 --> 09:14.578\n最後我想提醒一下,我們國科會會開發Tide生成性的AI對話引擎當然現在我們要灌入很多的素材給它用繁體中文的資料\n\n09:16.460 --> 09:22.763\n關於如何符合台灣文化與台灣價值觀的內容我想這個變成很重要那重點是不能讓歧視與具有偏見的回答內容出現在對話引擎的應用上\n\n09:33.847 --> 09:50.638\n當然現在台灣社會還是很有很多歧視跟具有偏見的言論層出不窮我們不希望這樣的情形出現在這個人工智慧的對話引擎中我們也要建議說這個歧視的內容要完全杜絕如果它出現文化上的差異至少要併成回答\n\n09:55.021 --> 10:22.743\n獲交代脈絡我舉例來說假設我們要使用一個AI的對話引擎想要生成一張具台灣婚禮特色的圖片可是什麼叫做具台灣婚禮的特色光援助民族就有很大的差異所以你如果只讓AI生成一張或一種所謂的台灣特色的婚禮我想這個可能就\n\n10:23.404 --> 10:24.884\n謝謝委員我們在做這個態度的時候\n\n10:51.610 --> 10:55.595\n避免歧視與偏見,這也是我們非常努力要做的事。好,OK。謝謝委員。謝謝主委、謝謝次長、謝謝主席。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.83,"end":3.231,"text":"主委 聽我請了 謝謝還有葉次長、蘇發布 謝謝"},{"start":11.262,"end":37.552,"text":"主委好我想會定這個題目最主要是真的是AI應用的浪潮正在席捲全世界特別是2022年11月這個OpenAI將這個CHAP GPT開放給大眾使用之後帶出了這個生成式AI的新序幕那我想用"},{"start":38.092,"end":42.954,"text":"更配合這個回答的執行長黃仁勳來台．加起一陣旋風當然我想他的演講也讓我們台灣有很多的啟發特別他也強調人工智慧和加速運算將重新定義未來"},{"start":58.461,"end":67.648,"text":"科技飛速帶來那麼的便利可是這個同時我們要注意的是什麼因為它會相伴著很多的風險跟使用上的疑慮還有我們各種法制作業所需的建構首先想要跟你用這個新聞來跟你探討這個生成式AI應用過程中合理使用的界限"},{"start":83.098,"end":86.72,"text":"還有這個智慧財產權保護的問題這個就是那個今年4月復興商工的校內的美術展覽的競賽然後首獎的作品遭事後發現說他是AI生成的有這個新聞那很多的學者都有出面表示說AI的使用已經是勢在必行那重點應該放在說怎麼教育學生如何正確的使用AI"},{"start":111.733,"end":133.612,"text":"所以創作屬於自己的作品而且具備所謂的財產智慧權的概念可是從這個事件來我們可以看出說AI的應用會改變創作的原創性的定義就是說我們可以把AI視作一種工具可是當然也可以同時把它視作是直接的產出"},{"start":134.813,"end":154.78,"text":"但是無論是寫作業也好競賽創作也好或真是作品AI的應用過程跟結果就應該如何規範或者應該如何對人民進到基本的素養教育我想國科會跟數位發展部責無旁貸"},{"start":158.795,"end":179.906,"text":"想要就教主委跟次長就是說除了國科會在今年我們要10月嘛剛剛很多委員都有就教就是要提出AI基本法的草案進行這個大方向性的規範那在那個之前我們寫作業也好或者競賽創作正式作品的面向我們如何通案性的界定"},{"start":180.586,"end":183.207,"text":"主席主席主席主席"},{"start":210.515,"end":235.288,"text":"目前我們是各部會依照這個指引我們這個AI的指引希望大家盡快先在法律還沒有制定之前先有一些指引可以依循然後我們的產業界我們的這個所有的AI的使用者能夠有這個指引他就不會去太濫用這個AI的能力去做一些不合適的事情"},{"start":236.809,"end":264.746,"text":"請市長回答我這個問題就是說我們要怎麼樣去界定這個界限首先跟委員報告有關智慧財產權的部分那它經濟部有所謂智慧財產局那他們來主管著作權、專利法以及商標法所以有關於它是不是著作權的問題可能最後要以這個智慧財產局的說法為準那的確委員所說的沒有錯在這部分有一些法律上的爭議譬如說AI所生成的算不算是一種著作物"},{"start":265.126,"end":277.881,"text":"以及他著作人是不是應用AI的人這是有爭議的而且很多的學者也都說以AI生成不太能夠把它當作著作人來看待或著作物來看待那這個當然國際上還在討論據我所知智慧局也在根據國際的歧視在做進一步的研究"},{"start":283.687,"end":313.127,"text":"如果有需要的話．他會修改著作權法的規定來做更詳細．或是由智慧局來發布解釋函令．才會更不得精確當然也要看法院的見解因為智慧財產局其實在去年6月．他就表示說AI是利用人如戲單純下指令．他覺得並未投入精神的創作由生成AI模型獨立自助運算而生成的所謂的全新的內容．他覺得該AI的生成內容．"},{"start":313.387,"end":314.287,"text":"主席 林宜瑾 林宜瑾"},{"start":339.575,"end":359.012,"text":"當然這部分剛剛次長跟部長跟主委也有提到一些想法但我還是期待說在這部分要更完備的去做一些周延的規劃另外我想再提幾個就是說美國人工的智慧研究實驗室"},{"start":360.513,"end":380.821,"text":"他在上個月底有發布一個報告他就探討說人工智慧工具如何被用於秘密影響力的這個行動那這份報告有指出說中國、伊朗、俄羅斯、以色列他們的組織都利用open AI工具創造假訊息剛剛有很多委員有提及"},{"start":381.021,"end":404.152,"text":"提及並在社群媒體上發布另外瑞典的大學也有研究說臺灣已經是連續11年受境外假訊息攻擊最嚴重的國家所以可見AI假訊息的資訊攻擊會是我們全球各國特別是臺灣我們要提升防衛意識的很重要的一個目標"},{"start":406.496,"end":413.902,"text":"本席知道說我們速發布在上個月我們就有說要規劃設立所謂剛剛也有很多委員說就是所謂的打詐通報查詢網那利用這個AI對抗AI假訊息那可是在台灣嚴重受到假訊息嚴重的侵擾之下這個有關於AI假訊息的對抗的這個問題不曉得你們目前有什麼具體的解決手段"},{"start":434.4,"end":449.215,"text":"國科會如何跟訴發部合作?除了力抗假訊息的詐騙以外對於所謂的國安不死的訊息有什麼樣防範的做法?"},{"start":452.014,"end":469.234,"text":"跟委員報告,如委員所說的就是說我們現在AI技術所產生的不管是詐騙訊息或假訊息的確在技術上面會越來越難辯證為那數法部有兩個方案來進行第一個是溯源那我們要讓民眾非常能夠簡單的知道說這個來源是可靠的"},{"start":469.774,"end":488.719,"text":"包括簡訊的部分我們政府部門已經使用11如果看到政府部門的來的訊息不是這個11那可能就是有問題那將來我們會進一步推所謂商用檢碼在檢碼上面來源我們跟電信公司合作基本上面沒有詐騙集團使用檢碼的可能性這是第一件事情"},{"start":489.279,"end":505.664,"text":"第二件事情就是說剛剛委員也提到就是我們會努力來建立所謂的詐騙的查詢通報網讓民眾能夠將相關資訊能夠很快的能夠再找到答案說它是不是一個詐騙的案例那這個當然要透過AI技術來掃描以及這個辨識那這個我們會努力來做"},{"start":509.605,"end":509.825,"text":"好,好"},{"start":539.64,"end":554.578,"text":"最後我想提醒一下,我們國科會會開發Tide生成性的AI對話引擎當然現在我們要灌入很多的素材給它用繁體中文的資料"},{"start":556.46,"end":562.763,"text":"關於如何符合台灣文化與台灣價值觀的內容我想這個變成很重要那重點是不能讓歧視與具有偏見的回答內容出現在對話引擎的應用上"},{"start":573.847,"end":590.638,"text":"當然現在台灣社會還是很有很多歧視跟具有偏見的言論層出不窮我們不希望這樣的情形出現在這個人工智慧的對話引擎中我們也要建議說這個歧視的內容要完全杜絕如果它出現文化上的差異至少要併成回答"},{"start":595.021,"end":622.743,"text":"獲交代脈絡我舉例來說假設我們要使用一個AI的對話引擎想要生成一張具台灣婚禮特色的圖片可是什麼叫做具台灣婚禮的特色光援助民族就有很大的差異所以你如果只讓AI生成一張或一種所謂的台灣特色的婚禮我想這個可能就"},{"start":623.404,"end":624.884,"text":"謝謝委員我們在做這個態度的時候"},{"start":651.61,"end":655.595,"text":"避免歧視與偏見,這也是我們非常努力要做的事。好,OK。謝謝委員。謝謝主委、謝謝次長、謝謝主席。"}]}}}}