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12:06:26","影片長度":"00:07:07","會議時間":"2024-06-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-05","start_time":"2024-06-05T11:59:19+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-05T12:06:26+08:00","duration":427,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-15"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":791,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（11時59分）謝謝主席，郭部長有請。"],["主席：請郭部長。"],["牛委員煦庭：部長午安。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["牛委員煦庭：2050淨零排放及轉型，基本上是蔡總統在2022年推出的能源轉型政策，那麼2024年賴清德總統就任之後，卓院長也把2050的淨零排放跟轉型納入施政方針之中。部長，您是來自於民間的部長，你在擔任崇越集團董事長的時候有沒有說過「化石燃料將逐漸從我們習以為常的生活中淡出，零碳趨勢則將迎面而來」？你有沒有講過這樣的話？"],["郭部長智輝：不太記得，我講過很多話。"],["牛委員煦庭：你講過很多話？好，有啦！這是你幫天下雜誌的書推裡面所寫的。當然啦，你在治理崇越集團的時候其實是身體力行去實踐減碳這件事，這個你總有印象吧？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：是嘛，對不對？你甚至有講過「不要等到明天，減碳這件事從今天就開始行動」。本席要特別講這個事情就是提醒你，即便您現在身為經濟部長，我們希望你把這樣子的一個概念跟經驗從企業界帶到公部門，帶領國家社會來共同推動這樣子的一個事情。部長知不知道我們減碳最大的挑戰是什麼？你覺得我們政府這幾年減碳卓有成果嗎？還是遇到了很大的障礙跟瓶頸？"],["郭部長智輝：我現在對於委員這個問題不是非常的了解，我會快速的來了解這些問題。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，藉由這兩張圖表，希望部長可以好好了解一下，這個圖表裡面，從國家溫室氣體的排放清冊，你可以發現其實下降得有限，1990到2021年的二氧化碳的排放趨勢沒有顯著地增加，不像90年代增加得非常快速，但相對來講，在世界開始要求要下降的時候，我們並沒有做到碳排下降，甚至還是微幅的增加。部長，遇到這樣大的一個挑戰，我們的作法是什麼？"],["郭部長智輝：我想這個目標我們是非常清楚，就是能夠節能減碳，如果排放的部分沒有減少，這個節能減碳還是要非常的努力啦！所以我們大概可以考慮的是兩個方向，一個就是讓排碳減少，一個就是加強節能減碳。"],["牛委員煦庭：節能減碳對不對？你可以看到能源部門在這裡面其實扮演非常重要的一個角色，所以今天其實有非常多的委員跟你討論國家能源政策這一件事情，那本席今天也是要討論這樣的事情，但是我想大的方向我們就不用多談，就談一下本席選區的事情。在民進黨政府的國家能源轉型政策的領導之下，桃園其實是最大的受害者，為什麼桃園是最大的受害者呢？現在我覺得蠻遺憾的是，部長在業界的時候其實對核能的心態是相對開放，但是近來擔任部長之後好像多了很多的拘束跟包袱，本席是認為非常可惜。我希望看到業界這些靈活的思維能夠來改變公部門的邏輯，希望部長可以好好努力。為什麼我這樣說呢？因為本席的選區（桃園第一選區）是火力發電最大的受災戶，在大桃園周邊有十幾個火力發電的機組，團團包圍，當然桃園是產業重鎮，桃園要用電，這一點我們很清楚，但是桃園的發電幾乎全部都是火力發電，而且不只是有發電，其中很多的發電廠都有擴大的計畫，一個蘆竹的長生海湖，一個龜山的國光火力，兩個電廠都在本席的選區，偷偷摸摸的在進行擴建，本席認為期期以為不可啊！為什麼不可？倒也不是說一定要用核能嘛，而是關鍵是我們剛剛講到這張圖表，大家都希望二氧化碳的排放能夠往下降，而能源部門火力發電又剛剛好是這個二氧化碳、碳排的大宗，如果我們的部長、經濟部希望未來走向淨零轉型，但是卻放任火力電廠在各地繼續擴建，不只是對區域的不公平跟不正義、不只是有空污的危害，其實它對於國家總體淨零轉型也是很大的一個障礙。部長，這樣子的狀況、這樣子的矛盾，經濟部現在有沒有什麼解決的方式？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，對於這一步的話，我們原來的規劃就是以綠能全力來發展，綠能才能符合淨零排放這個目標。目前所規劃的這一部分是在2020還沒有產生2050零碳這樣一個目標之前就已經規劃的電廠，我想委員大概也很清楚，一個電廠不管是火力或是任何一種發電廠都需要6年的時間，所以台電每一年會根據用電的預估，然後去推估6年或者10年以後我們大概的用電多少來做它的發電……"],["牛委員煦庭：部長，簡單而言，本席非常支持經濟部推動綠能，我覺得這是世界趨勢，只要它可以減碳，任何可以減碳的工具都是好的工具，所以本席剛剛講，希望你用開放的心態面對核能，因為它是減碳的工具，我也希望政府可以積極推動綠能，因為它是減碳的工具。但是既然淨零碳排是這個國家重要的發展方針，火力電廠的擴建大可不必，本席敬表反對。","第二個，本席的選區不只有火力電廠，還有桃園煉油廠在，您剛剛有講說石化燃料要慢慢的退場，本席的選區煉油廠周邊的鄰里過去都有跟經濟部長座談、交流的經驗，大家都很關心，以前大家講要遷廠、要遷廠，但我們知道遷廠茲事體大，國家發展也有困難。現在大家的觀念願意轉、改變，希望用轉型的方式來取代遷廠，對於這個轉型的計畫，我們跟前任經濟部長已經做過政策對話，我也希望新任的經濟部長把煉油廠的轉型當成一個重要的發展方針，符合減碳的趨勢，還有廠區利用的活化，並且充分尊重地方的意見。部長願不願意撥出一點時間跟地方、跟桃園市政府來做一些政策的溝通跟討論？"],["郭部長智輝：我個人非常願意。"],["牛委員煦庭：「個人非常願意」？好，那我們後續就來安排時間，希望有更多的時間可以做深入的探討，可以嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：是，謝謝委員。"],["牛委員煦庭：期待經濟部在部長的領導之下可以走出一條新的道路，謝謝，加油。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝牛煦庭委員。部長請回座休息。","接下來請王鴻薇委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":272,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-15","speakers":["邱議瑩","林岱樺","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra 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{\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 413.237, \"end\": 413.718, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 413.718, \"end\": 413.858, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 413.858, \"end\": 413.958, \"score\": 0.732}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 413.958, \"end\": 414.139, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"願\"}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 414.139, \"end\": 414.159, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,947 --> 00:00:26,734\n謝謝主席郭部長有請來請郭部長好部長午安\n\n2\n00:00:29,005 --> 00:00:53,661\n這個2050淨零排放跟轉型基本上是蔡總統這個2022年就推出的能源轉型政策那麼2024年賴清德總統就任之後卓院長也把2050的淨零排放跟轉型納入施政方針之中部長您是來自於民間的部長你在擔任崇越集團董事長的時候有沒有說過化石燃料將逐漸從我們習以為常的生活中淡出靈探趨勢則將迎面而來你有沒有講過這樣的話\n\n3\n00:00:58,288 --> 00:00:59,431\n不太記得,我講過很多話\n\n4\n00:01:03,427 --> 00:01:29,706\n有啦,這是你幫人家寫書,這個天下雜誌的書推裡面寫的喔當然嘛,你在崇越集團的治理的時候,其實你是身體力行的去實踐減碳這件事,這個你總有印象吧?嗯,是是嘛對不對?那你甚至有講過,這個不要等到明天喔,減碳這件事從今天就開始行動本期要特別講這個事情的提醒,就是說這個事情即便你今天,現在身為經濟部長這樣子的一個概念,我們希望你把從企業界的概念跟經驗,帶到這個公部門\n\n5\n00:01:31,547 --> 00:01:34,629\n我現在對於委員這個問題不是非常的了解我會快速的來了解這些問題其實這兩張圖表希望部長可以好好了解一下也就是說這個\n\n6\n00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:30,761\n圖表裡面其實你可以看到國家溫室氣體的排放清澈其實你可以發現其實下降的有限1990到2021年的二氧化碳的排放趨勢沒有顯著的在增加不像說90年代增加的非常快速但相對來講在全世界開始要求要下降的時候我們並沒有做到碳排下降這件事情甚至還是微幅的增加部長遇到這樣的大的挑戰我們的做法是什麼\n\n7\n00:02:33,393 --> 00:02:51,318\n我想這個目標我們是非常清楚就是能夠節能減碳那因為這個如果排放的部分沒有減少這個節能減碳還是要非常的努力所以我們大概可以考慮是兩個方向一個就是讓排碳減少一個就是加強這個節能減碳\n\n8\n00:02:53,058 --> 00:03:10,556\n節能減碳對不對所以你可以看到能源部門在這裡面其實扮演非常重要的一個角色所以今天其實有非常多的委員跟你討論國家的能源政策這一件事情那本席今天也是要討論這樣的事情但是我想喔大的方向我們就不用多談了談一下本席選區的事情\n\n9\n00:03:11,878 --> 00:03:26,250\n這個在民進黨政府領導的國家的能源轉型的政策的領導之下桃園其實是最大的受害者為什麼桃園是最大的受害者呢現在我覺得蠻遺憾的部長在業界的時候其實對核能的心態是相對開放的\n\n10\n00:03:26,630 --> 00:03:47,033\n但是近來擔任部長之後好像多了很多的拘束多了很多的包袱本席是認為非常可惜我是希望看到業界這樣子靈活的思維來改變公部門的邏輯這個希望部長可以好好努力為什麼我這樣說呢因為本席的選區桃園第一選區是火力發電的最大的受災戶\n\n11\n00:03:48,934 --> 00:04:14,270\n在大桃園周邊有十幾個火力發電的機組團團包圍當然桃園是產業重鎮桃園要用電這我們很清楚但是桃園的發電幾乎全部都是火力發電而且不只是有發電這其中很多的發電廠還都有擴大的計畫一個盧竹的海湖長生一個龜山的國光火力兩個電廠都在本席的選區偷偷摸摸的在進行擴建本席認為期期以為不可\n\n12\n00:04:14,810 --> 00:04:30,408\n為什麼不可呢?倒也不是講說一定是要用核能嘛而是關鍵是我們剛剛講到這張圖表大家都希望二氧化碳的碳排能夠往下降而能源部門火力發電又剛剛好是這個二氧化碳碳排的大宗\n\n13\n00:04:31,169 --> 00:04:52,689\n如果我們的部長我們的經濟部希望未來走向淨零轉型但是卻放任火力電廠在各地繼續擴建不只是對區域的不公平跟不正義不只是有空污的危害其實對於國家總體淨零轉型其實他也是很大的一個障礙部長這樣子的狀況這樣子的矛盾經濟部現在有沒有什麼解決的方式\n\n14\n00:04:54,367 --> 00:05:11,237\n報告委員,我們對於這一步的話,原來的規劃就是以綠能權力來發展,那麼綠能才是符合建立這個目標的,那這個目前所規劃的這一部分是在\n\n15\n00:05:12,037 --> 00:05:14,539\n臺電會根據用電的預估推估6年以後或10年以後大概我們用電多少\n\n16\n00:05:43,158 --> 00:05:43,478\n來做他的發電廠\n\n17\n00:06:01,892 --> 00:06:23,496\n這個國家的重要的發展方針火力電廠的擴建大可不必本席竟表反對第二個是本席的選區不只有火力電廠還有桃園煉油廠您剛剛有講說石化燃料要慢慢慢慢的退場這個本席的選區這個煉油廠周邊的鄰里過去都有跟經濟部長座談交流的這個經驗大家都很關心以前大家講要牽廠要牽廠但我們知道你講要牽廠知識體大國家發展也困難\n\n18\n00:06:27,217 --> 00:06:51,858\n現在大家觀念願意改變希望用轉型的方式來取代遷廠這個轉型的計畫我們跟前任經濟部長已經做過政策對話我也希望新任的經濟部把煉油廠的轉型當成一個重要的發展方針符合減碳的趨勢場區利用的活化並且充分尊重地方的意見部長願不願意撥出一點點時間跟地方跟桃園市政府來做一些政策的溝通跟討論\n\n19\n00:06:53,237 --> 00:06:54,159\n我個人非常願意\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10947\t26734\t謝謝主席 郭部長有請來請郭部長好 部長午安\n29005\t53661\t這個2050淨零排放跟轉型基本上是蔡總統這個2022年就推出的能源轉型政策那麼2024年賴清德總統就任之後卓院長也把2050的淨零排放跟轉型納入施政方針之中部長您是來自於民間的部長你在擔任崇越集團董事長的時候有沒有說過化石燃料將逐漸從我們習以為常的生活中淡出靈探趨勢則將迎面而來你有沒有講過這樣的話\n58288\t59431\t不太記得,我講過很多話\n63427\t89706\t有啦,這是你幫人家寫書,這個天下雜誌的書推裡面寫的喔當然嘛,你在崇越集團的治理的時候,其實你是身體力行的去實踐減碳這件事,這個你總有印象吧?嗯,是是嘛對不對?那你甚至有講過,這個不要等到明天喔,減碳這件事從今天就開始行動本期要特別講這個事情的提醒,就是說這個事情即便你今天,現在身為經濟部長這樣子的一個概念,我們希望你把從企業界的概念跟經驗,帶到這個公部門\n91547\t94629\t我現在對於委員這個問題不是非常的了解我會快速的來了解這些問題其實這兩張圖表希望部長可以好好了解一下也就是說這個\n121400\t150761\t圖表裡面其實你可以看到國家溫室氣體的排放清澈其實你可以發現其實下降的有限1990到2021年的二氧化碳的排放趨勢沒有顯著的在增加不像說90年代增加的非常快速但相對來講在全世界開始要求要下降的時候我們並沒有做到碳排下降這件事情甚至還是微幅的增加部長遇到這樣的大的挑戰我們的做法是什麼\n153393\t171318\t我想這個目標我們是非常清楚就是能夠節能減碳那因為這個如果排放的部分沒有減少這個節能減碳還是要非常的努力所以我們大概可以考慮是兩個方向一個就是讓排碳減少一個就是加強這個節能減碳\n173058\t190556\t節能減碳對不對所以你可以看到能源部門在這裡面其實扮演非常重要的一個角色所以今天其實有非常多的委員跟你討論國家的能源政策這一件事情那本席今天也是要討論這樣的事情但是我想喔大的方向我們就不用多談了談一下本席選區的事情\n191878\t206250\t這個在民進黨政府領導的國家的能源轉型的政策的領導之下桃園其實是最大的受害者為什麼桃園是最大的受害者呢現在我覺得蠻遺憾的部長在業界的時候其實對核能的心態是相對開放的\n206630\t227033\t但是近來擔任部長之後好像多了很多的拘束多了很多的包袱本席是認為非常可惜我是希望看到業界這樣子靈活的思維來改變公部門的邏輯這個希望部長可以好好努力為什麼我這樣說呢因為本席的選區 桃園第一選區是火力發電的最大的受災戶\n228934\t254270\t在大桃園周邊有十幾個火力發電的機組團團包圍當然桃園是產業重鎮桃園要用電這我們很清楚但是桃園的發電幾乎全部都是火力發電而且不只是有發電這其中很多的發電廠還都有擴大的計畫一個盧竹的海湖長生一個龜山的國光火力兩個電廠都在本席的選區偷偷摸摸的在進行擴建本席認為期期以為不可\n254810\t270408\t為什麼不可呢?倒也不是講說一定是要用核能嘛而是關鍵是我們剛剛講到這張圖表大家都希望二氧化碳的碳排能夠往下降而能源部門火力發電又剛剛好是這個二氧化碳碳排的大宗\n271169\t292689\t如果我們的部長我們的經濟部希望未來走向淨零轉型但是卻放任火力電廠在各地繼續擴建不只是對區域的不公平跟不正義不只是有空污的危害其實對於國家總體淨零轉型其實他也是很大的一個障礙部長這樣子的狀況這樣子的矛盾經濟部現在有沒有什麼解決的方式\n294367\t311237\t報告委員,我們對於這一步的話,原來的規劃就是以綠能權力來發展,那麼綠能才是符合建立這個目標的,那這個目前所規劃的這一部分是在\n312037\t314539\t臺電會根據用電的預估推估6年以後或10年以後大概我們用電多少\n343158\t343478\t來做他的發電廠\n361892\t383496\t這個國家的重要的發展方針火力電廠的擴建大可不必本席竟表反對第二個是本席的選區不只有火力電廠還有桃園煉油廠您剛剛有講說石化燃料要慢慢慢慢的退場這個本席的選區這個煉油廠周邊的鄰里過去都有跟經濟部長座談交流的這個經驗大家都很關心以前大家講要牽廠要牽廠但我們知道你講要牽廠知識體大國家發展也困難\n387217\t411858\t現在大家觀念願意改變希望用轉型的方式來取代遷廠這個轉型的計畫我們跟前任經濟部長已經做過政策對話我也希望新任的經濟部把煉油廠的轉型當成一個重要的發展方針符合減碳的趨勢場區利用的活化並且充分尊重地方的意見部長願不願意撥出一點點時間跟地方跟桃園市政府來做一些政策的溝通跟討論\n413237\t414159\t我個人非常願意\n","txt":"謝謝主席 郭部長有請來請郭部長好 部長午安\n這個2050淨零排放跟轉型基本上是蔡總統這個2022年就推出的能源轉型政策那麼2024年賴清德總統就任之後卓院長也把2050的淨零排放跟轉型納入施政方針之中部長您是來自於民間的部長你在擔任崇越集團董事長的時候有沒有說過化石燃料將逐漸從我們習以為常的生活中淡出靈探趨勢則將迎面而來你有沒有講過這樣的話\n不太記得,我講過很多話\n有啦,這是你幫人家寫書,這個天下雜誌的書推裡面寫的喔當然嘛,你在崇越集團的治理的時候,其實你是身體力行的去實踐減碳這件事,這個你總有印象吧?嗯,是是嘛對不對?那你甚至有講過,這個不要等到明天喔,減碳這件事從今天就開始行動本期要特別講這個事情的提醒,就是說這個事情即便你今天,現在身為經濟部長這樣子的一個概念,我們希望你把從企業界的概念跟經驗,帶到這個公部門\n我現在對於委員這個問題不是非常的了解我會快速的來了解這些問題其實這兩張圖表希望部長可以好好了解一下也就是說這個\n圖表裡面其實你可以看到國家溫室氣體的排放清澈其實你可以發現其實下降的有限1990到2021年的二氧化碳的排放趨勢沒有顯著的在增加不像說90年代增加的非常快速但相對來講在全世界開始要求要下降的時候我們並沒有做到碳排下降這件事情甚至還是微幅的增加部長遇到這樣的大的挑戰我們的做法是什麼\n我想這個目標我們是非常清楚就是能夠節能減碳那因為這個如果排放的部分沒有減少這個節能減碳還是要非常的努力所以我們大概可以考慮是兩個方向一個就是讓排碳減少一個就是加強這個節能減碳\n節能減碳對不對所以你可以看到能源部門在這裡面其實扮演非常重要的一個角色所以今天其實有非常多的委員跟你討論國家的能源政策這一件事情那本席今天也是要討論這樣的事情但是我想喔大的方向我們就不用多談了談一下本席選區的事情\n這個在民進黨政府領導的國家的能源轉型的政策的領導之下桃園其實是最大的受害者為什麼桃園是最大的受害者呢現在我覺得蠻遺憾的部長在業界的時候其實對核能的心態是相對開放的\n但是近來擔任部長之後好像多了很多的拘束多了很多的包袱本席是認為非常可惜我是希望看到業界這樣子靈活的思維來改變公部門的邏輯這個希望部長可以好好努力為什麼我這樣說呢因為本席的選區 桃園第一選區是火力發電的最大的受災戶\n在大桃園周邊有十幾個火力發電的機組團團包圍當然桃園是產業重鎮桃園要用電這我們很清楚但是桃園的發電幾乎全部都是火力發電而且不只是有發電這其中很多的發電廠還都有擴大的計畫一個盧竹的海湖長生一個龜山的國光火力兩個電廠都在本席的選區偷偷摸摸的在進行擴建本席認為期期以為不可\n為什麼不可呢?倒也不是講說一定是要用核能嘛而是關鍵是我們剛剛講到這張圖表大家都希望二氧化碳的碳排能夠往下降而能源部門火力發電又剛剛好是這個二氧化碳碳排的大宗\n如果我們的部長我們的經濟部希望未來走向淨零轉型但是卻放任火力電廠在各地繼續擴建不只是對區域的不公平跟不正義不只是有空污的危害其實對於國家總體淨零轉型其實他也是很大的一個障礙部長這樣子的狀況這樣子的矛盾經濟部現在有沒有什麼解決的方式\n報告委員,我們對於這一步的話,原來的規劃就是以綠能權力來發展,那麼綠能才是符合建立這個目標的,那這個目前所規劃的這一部分是在\n臺電會根據用電的預估推估6年以後或10年以後大概我們用電多少\n來做他的發電廠\n這個國家的重要的發展方針火力電廠的擴建大可不必本席竟表反對第二個是本席的選區不只有火力電廠還有桃園煉油廠您剛剛有講說石化燃料要慢慢慢慢的退場這個本席的選區這個煉油廠周邊的鄰里過去都有跟經濟部長座談交流的這個經驗大家都很關心以前大家講要牽廠要牽廠但我們知道你講要牽廠知識體大國家發展也困難\n現在大家觀念願意改變希望用轉型的方式來取代遷廠這個轉型的計畫我們跟前任經濟部長已經做過政策對話我也希望新任的經濟部把煉油廠的轉型當成一個重要的發展方針符合減碳的趨勢場區利用的活化並且充分尊重地方的意見部長願不願意撥出一點點時間跟地方跟桃園市政府來做一些政策的溝通跟討論\n我個人非常願意\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.947 --> 00:26.734\n謝謝主席郭部長有請來請郭部長好部長午安\n\n00:29.005 --> 00:53.661\n這個2050淨零排放跟轉型基本上是蔡總統這個2022年就推出的能源轉型政策那麼2024年賴清德總統就任之後卓院長也把2050的淨零排放跟轉型納入施政方針之中部長您是來自於民間的部長你在擔任崇越集團董事長的時候有沒有說過化石燃料將逐漸從我們習以為常的生活中淡出靈探趨勢則將迎面而來你有沒有講過這樣的話\n\n00:58.288 --> 00:59.431\n不太記得,我講過很多話\n\n01:03.427 --> 01:29.706\n有啦,這是你幫人家寫書,這個天下雜誌的書推裡面寫的喔當然嘛,你在崇越集團的治理的時候,其實你是身體力行的去實踐減碳這件事,這個你總有印象吧?嗯,是是嘛對不對?那你甚至有講過,這個不要等到明天喔,減碳這件事從今天就開始行動本期要特別講這個事情的提醒,就是說這個事情即便你今天,現在身為經濟部長這樣子的一個概念,我們希望你把從企業界的概念跟經驗,帶到這個公部門\n\n01:31.547 --> 01:34.629\n我現在對於委員這個問題不是非常的了解我會快速的來了解這些問題其實這兩張圖表希望部長可以好好了解一下也就是說這個\n\n02:01.400 --> 02:30.761\n圖表裡面其實你可以看到國家溫室氣體的排放清澈其實你可以發現其實下降的有限1990到2021年的二氧化碳的排放趨勢沒有顯著的在增加不像說90年代增加的非常快速但相對來講在全世界開始要求要下降的時候我們並沒有做到碳排下降這件事情甚至還是微幅的增加部長遇到這樣的大的挑戰我們的做法是什麼\n\n02:33.393 --> 02:51.318\n我想這個目標我們是非常清楚就是能夠節能減碳那因為這個如果排放的部分沒有減少這個節能減碳還是要非常的努力所以我們大概可以考慮是兩個方向一個就是讓排碳減少一個就是加強這個節能減碳\n\n02:53.058 --> 03:10.556\n節能減碳對不對所以你可以看到能源部門在這裡面其實扮演非常重要的一個角色所以今天其實有非常多的委員跟你討論國家的能源政策這一件事情那本席今天也是要討論這樣的事情但是我想喔大的方向我們就不用多談了談一下本席選區的事情\n\n03:11.878 --> 03:26.250\n這個在民進黨政府領導的國家的能源轉型的政策的領導之下桃園其實是最大的受害者為什麼桃園是最大的受害者呢現在我覺得蠻遺憾的部長在業界的時候其實對核能的心態是相對開放的\n\n03:26.630 --> 03:47.033\n但是近來擔任部長之後好像多了很多的拘束多了很多的包袱本席是認為非常可惜我是希望看到業界這樣子靈活的思維來改變公部門的邏輯這個希望部長可以好好努力為什麼我這樣說呢因為本席的選區桃園第一選區是火力發電的最大的受災戶\n\n03:48.934 --> 04:14.270\n在大桃園周邊有十幾個火力發電的機組團團包圍當然桃園是產業重鎮桃園要用電這我們很清楚但是桃園的發電幾乎全部都是火力發電而且不只是有發電這其中很多的發電廠還都有擴大的計畫一個盧竹的海湖長生一個龜山的國光火力兩個電廠都在本席的選區偷偷摸摸的在進行擴建本席認為期期以為不可\n\n04:14.810 --> 04:30.408\n為什麼不可呢?倒也不是講說一定是要用核能嘛而是關鍵是我們剛剛講到這張圖表大家都希望二氧化碳的碳排能夠往下降而能源部門火力發電又剛剛好是這個二氧化碳碳排的大宗\n\n04:31.169 --> 04:52.689\n如果我們的部長我們的經濟部希望未來走向淨零轉型但是卻放任火力電廠在各地繼續擴建不只是對區域的不公平跟不正義不只是有空污的危害其實對於國家總體淨零轉型其實他也是很大的一個障礙部長這樣子的狀況這樣子的矛盾經濟部現在有沒有什麼解決的方式\n\n04:54.367 --> 05:11.237\n報告委員,我們對於這一步的話,原來的規劃就是以綠能權力來發展,那麼綠能才是符合建立這個目標的,那這個目前所規劃的這一部分是在\n\n05:12.037 --> 05:14.539\n臺電會根據用電的預估推估6年以後或10年以後大概我們用電多少\n\n05:43.158 --> 05:43.478\n來做他的發電廠\n\n06:01.892 --> 06:23.496\n這個國家的重要的發展方針火力電廠的擴建大可不必本席竟表反對第二個是本席的選區不只有火力電廠還有桃園煉油廠您剛剛有講說石化燃料要慢慢慢慢的退場這個本席的選區這個煉油廠周邊的鄰里過去都有跟經濟部長座談交流的這個經驗大家都很關心以前大家講要牽廠要牽廠但我們知道你講要牽廠知識體大國家發展也困難\n\n06:27.217 --> 06:51.858\n現在大家觀念願意改變希望用轉型的方式來取代遷廠這個轉型的計畫我們跟前任經濟部長已經做過政策對話我也希望新任的經濟部把煉油廠的轉型當成一個重要的發展方針符合減碳的趨勢場區利用的活化並且充分尊重地方的意見部長願不願意撥出一點點時間跟地方跟桃園市政府來做一些政策的溝通跟討論\n\n06:53.237 --> 06:54.159\n我個人非常願意\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.947,"end":26.734,"text":"謝謝主席 郭部長有請來請郭部長好 部長午安"},{"start":29.005,"end":53.661,"text":"這個2050淨零排放跟轉型基本上是蔡總統這個2022年就推出的能源轉型政策那麼2024年賴清德總統就任之後卓院長也把2050的淨零排放跟轉型納入施政方針之中部長您是來自於民間的部長你在擔任崇越集團董事長的時候有沒有說過化石燃料將逐漸從我們習以為常的生活中淡出靈探趨勢則將迎面而來你有沒有講過這樣的話"},{"start":58.288,"end":59.431,"text":"不太記得,我講過很多話"},{"start":63.427,"end":89.706,"text":"有啦,這是你幫人家寫書,這個天下雜誌的書推裡面寫的喔當然嘛,你在崇越集團的治理的時候,其實你是身體力行的去實踐減碳這件事,這個你總有印象吧?嗯,是是嘛對不對?那你甚至有講過,這個不要等到明天喔,減碳這件事從今天就開始行動本期要特別講這個事情的提醒,就是說這個事情即便你今天,現在身為經濟部長這樣子的一個概念,我們希望你把從企業界的概念跟經驗,帶到這個公部門"},{"start":91.547,"end":94.629,"text":"我現在對於委員這個問題不是非常的了解我會快速的來了解這些問題其實這兩張圖表希望部長可以好好了解一下也就是說這個"},{"start":121.4,"end":150.761,"text":"圖表裡面其實你可以看到國家溫室氣體的排放清澈其實你可以發現其實下降的有限1990到2021年的二氧化碳的排放趨勢沒有顯著的在增加不像說90年代增加的非常快速但相對來講在全世界開始要求要下降的時候我們並沒有做到碳排下降這件事情甚至還是微幅的增加部長遇到這樣的大的挑戰我們的做法是什麼"},{"start":153.393,"end":171.318,"text":"我想這個目標我們是非常清楚就是能夠節能減碳那因為這個如果排放的部分沒有減少這個節能減碳還是要非常的努力所以我們大概可以考慮是兩個方向一個就是讓排碳減少一個就是加強這個節能減碳"},{"start":173.058,"end":190.556,"text":"節能減碳對不對所以你可以看到能源部門在這裡面其實扮演非常重要的一個角色所以今天其實有非常多的委員跟你討論國家的能源政策這一件事情那本席今天也是要討論這樣的事情但是我想喔大的方向我們就不用多談了談一下本席選區的事情"},{"start":191.878,"end":206.25,"text":"這個在民進黨政府領導的國家的能源轉型的政策的領導之下桃園其實是最大的受害者為什麼桃園是最大的受害者呢現在我覺得蠻遺憾的部長在業界的時候其實對核能的心態是相對開放的"},{"start":206.63,"end":227.033,"text":"但是近來擔任部長之後好像多了很多的拘束多了很多的包袱本席是認為非常可惜我是希望看到業界這樣子靈活的思維來改變公部門的邏輯這個希望部長可以好好努力為什麼我這樣說呢因為本席的選區 桃園第一選區是火力發電的最大的受災戶"},{"start":228.934,"end":254.27,"text":"在大桃園周邊有十幾個火力發電的機組團團包圍當然桃園是產業重鎮桃園要用電這我們很清楚但是桃園的發電幾乎全部都是火力發電而且不只是有發電這其中很多的發電廠還都有擴大的計畫一個盧竹的海湖長生一個龜山的國光火力兩個電廠都在本席的選區偷偷摸摸的在進行擴建本席認為期期以為不可"},{"start":254.81,"end":270.408,"text":"為什麼不可呢?倒也不是講說一定是要用核能嘛而是關鍵是我們剛剛講到這張圖表大家都希望二氧化碳的碳排能夠往下降而能源部門火力發電又剛剛好是這個二氧化碳碳排的大宗"},{"start":271.169,"end":292.689,"text":"如果我們的部長我們的經濟部希望未來走向淨零轉型但是卻放任火力電廠在各地繼續擴建不只是對區域的不公平跟不正義不只是有空污的危害其實對於國家總體淨零轉型其實他也是很大的一個障礙部長這樣子的狀況這樣子的矛盾經濟部現在有沒有什麼解決的方式"},{"start":294.367,"end":311.237,"text":"報告委員,我們對於這一步的話,原來的規劃就是以綠能權力來發展,那麼綠能才是符合建立這個目標的,那這個目前所規劃的這一部分是在"},{"start":312.037,"end":314.539,"text":"臺電會根據用電的預估推估6年以後或10年以後大概我們用電多少"},{"start":343.158,"end":343.478,"text":"來做他的發電廠"},{"start":361.892,"end":383.496,"text":"這個國家的重要的發展方針火力電廠的擴建大可不必本席竟表反對第二個是本席的選區不只有火力電廠還有桃園煉油廠您剛剛有講說石化燃料要慢慢慢慢的退場這個本席的選區這個煉油廠周邊的鄰里過去都有跟經濟部長座談交流的這個經驗大家都很關心以前大家講要牽廠要牽廠但我們知道你講要牽廠知識體大國家發展也困難"},{"start":387.217,"end":411.858,"text":"現在大家觀念願意改變希望用轉型的方式來取代遷廠這個轉型的計畫我們跟前任經濟部長已經做過政策對話我也希望新任的經濟部把煉油廠的轉型當成一個重要的發展方針符合減碳的趨勢場區利用的活化並且充分尊重地方的意見部長願不願意撥出一點點時間跟地方跟桃園市政府來做一些政策的溝通跟討論"},{"start":413.237,"end":414.159,"text":"我個人非常願意"}]}}}}