{"id":153633,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153633","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/18e54f584c581c989396f49454f6c6b2155b271690f57e8efc6f3e651eb006596cd2be41aab3cbef5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐欣瑩","委員發言時間":"11:23:36 - 11:31:01","影片長度":"00:07:25","會議時間":"2024-06-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：一、「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」：(一)審查行政院函請審議「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」案。(二)審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」案。(三)審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」案。【第(二)案、第(三)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】二、「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例」：(一)審查委員張嘉郡等21人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。(二)審查委員吳琪銘等19人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。(四)審查委員林岱樺等18人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。【第(二)案至第(五)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】三、「海洋保育法草案」：(一)繼續審查行政院函請審議「海洋保育法草案」案。(二)繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等20人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(三)繼續審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(四)繼續審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(五)繼續審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(六)繼續審查委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(七)繼續審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(八)繼續審查委員蘇巧慧等16人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(九)繼續審查委員羅美玲等17人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十)繼續審查委員許宇甄等20人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十一)繼續審查委員莊瑞雄等20人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十二)繼續審查委員洪申翰等16人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十三)繼續審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十四)繼續審查委員賴瑞隆等18人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十五)繼續審查委員高金素梅等22人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十六)繼續審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十七)繼續審查委員蔡易餘等19人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十八)繼續審查委員吳琪銘等18人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-05","start_time":"2024-06-05T11:23:36+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-05T11:31:01+08:00","duration":445,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-22"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":903,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（11時23分）謝謝主席，本席請行政院打詐辦公室李主任，還有內政部劉部長。"],["主席：行政院李主任，還有我們部長。"],["劉部長世芳：徐委員好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：兩位好。我先講一個實例，本席辦公室，應該說每位委員辦公室都常常接到民眾被詐騙的案例，我們要協助，於是我們向警察單位、警政署詢問怎麼辦，我們民眾被詐騙了，而且可能是來自國外的跨國詐騙，結果我們得到的訊息是，接電話的員警說這真的沒辦法，因為我自己也被騙了100萬，所以臺灣是詐騙的天堂！這個問題出在哪裡？我們今天在審詐欺犯罪危害防制條例，所有詐騙集團靈活、創新、推陳出新，但是我們呢？我們這邊說打詐國家隊，請問這個隊伍有辦法整合嗎？部長，因為你是這個草案的主管單位，你有辦法整合各單位嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，整合，第一個就是行政院各部門的整合，這是一個。目前行政院各部門在法律授權不足之下，已經歷經……"],["徐委員欣瑩：我知道，你不用講那個，那你有沒有辦法整合？我只問這個。"],["劉部長世芳：未來的整合還是要靠行政院整合至少四個部會，然後我們推出四個法案……"],["徐委員欣瑩：行政院誰整合？"],["劉部長世芳：目前當然是打詐辦公室在做行政協調的部分。"],["徐委員欣瑩：打詐辦公室？所以是李主任在整合囉？李主任，我聽說你的位階不夠，你沒辦法指揮各部會啊！"],["李主任憲明：跟立委報告，其實行政院……"],["徐委員欣瑩：欸，我只要問，打詐國家隊誰負責嘛？"],["李主任憲明：平常都是由政務委員在召集各部會。"],["徐委員欣瑩：現在哪一位政務委員？"],["李主任憲明：林明昕政務委員。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以是由政務委員？"],["李主任憲明：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：關於今天這個草案，我們就不希望政出多門，結果你們在草案裡面每一個又分層負責，你根本整合不起來啊！這就是最大的問題啊！一個團隊沒辦法整合就「二二六六」，長期以來就造成了詐騙者的天堂，因為沒辦法整合啊！","本席接著要就行政效能不彰的部分，有關整合，當然這可能不是你們兩位的權責，但是我在這邊還是要先提出來，特別是這一次這個專法，內政部是主管單位，而法案是一部法案，但是做事又是各自處理，對不對？你們的法案裡面哪一個是金管會？哪一個是NCC？好，請兩位先回座。","本席接著請金管會黃副局長、NCC黃主秘、數發部林政次，請暫停時間一下，等他們就位。我們在第一線，民眾是受害者的第一線，檢察官是辦理打詐的第一線，結果檢察官改革團體劍青檢改他們有提出三大戰犯，詐騙的三大戰犯是哪三大呢？金管會、數位部，還有NCC，連第一線的檢察官都覺得我們行政部門的行政效能不彰。","首先，本席要請教金管會，我們大家都一直覺得，檢察官也點名了，無論是人頭帳戶、虛擬帳戶、網路銀行、電子支付、第三方支付或虛擬貨幣交易，沒有一個跟金管會無關，但是欠缺前端的行政監管，那我請問你，對於這些建議，你們有沒有辦法改善？"],["黃副局長厚銘：是，跟委員報告，針對剛剛委員所說，劍青檢改它有提到虛擬貨幣的……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你可不可以簡答？"],["黃副局長厚銘：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：像這一些你都不管，引起眾怒了，那你這個怎麼辦？你們現在管不管？你就回答我管不管，好不好？"],["黃副局長厚銘：有，現在有在管。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，有在管。"],["黃副局長厚銘：未來如果洗防法修正過的話，可以管制的強度會更強。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，所以你們都依賴這個法。","再來是NCC，NCC最大問題就是你沒有管制電信業者浮濫出售的門號，所有民眾被詐騙都是因為這些人頭帳號預付卡、第二類電信申辦的大量人頭企業門號橫行，才有辦法嘛！"],["黃主任秘書文哲：事實上從去年開始，我們頒布了指引之後……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你們現在都管了，是不是？"],["黃主任秘書文哲：對，統統都管了，因為都已經在限制了，包括簡訊、號碼這些，目前整個國際話務量都已經降下來，這些詐騙簡訊、詐騙號碼的話務量已經都逐月在下降，條例的部分只要再針對黃檢察官所講的黑莓卡，黑莓卡的部分因為過去確實是沒有在處理，那這個條例已經在處理黑莓卡。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，沒關係，我不能浪費太多時間，不然你書面回覆。"],["黃主任秘書文哲：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：那接著我們就看，你說降下來，我們真的希望詐騙要銷聲匿跡在臺灣。","最後一個是數發部，數發部是只負責發展，不負責監管嗎？"],["林次長宜敬：我們也會負責監管。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以數發部，最後一個問題，數發部你要發展一個「打詐通報查詢網」，請問跟內政部警政署的「165全民防騙網」有什麼不同？"],["林次長宜敬：我們的分工是這樣子，因為內政部警政署這邊是針對已經發生犯罪，甚至於有財損的狀況，它會接受處理。"],["徐委員欣瑩：他們是處理受害者，你們是預防的？"],["林次長宜敬：我們是預防的，就是說我們在網路……"],["徐委員欣瑩：這不能整合起來嗎？為什麼中央政府花錢都不手軟的？"],["林次長宜敬：我們這個「打詐通報查詢網」的目的就是要整合，我們會利用科技的方法，當民眾報案的時候……"],["徐委員欣瑩：不、不，你要整合，你會整合內政部警政署的嗎？"],["林次長宜敬：就是我們會自動分案，利用科技的方法，認為那個是已經要報案了，我們會趕快轉到165那個地方，然後……"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以你們雖然是兩個單位，但你會整合在一起就對了。"],["林次長宜敬：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，那我們拭目以待。謝謝！"],["林次長宜敬：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝徐欣瑩委員的質詢。","下一位請陳亭妃委員。","跟各位委員報告，因為下午要逐條，大家的時間要掌控一下，好不好？不要超過時間，拜託，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":302,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-22","speakers":["吳琪銘","黃珊珊","王美惠","陳亭妃","蘇巧慧","張宏陸","牛煦庭","麥玉珍","黃建賓","許宇甄","黃捷","高金素梅","張智倫","丁學忠","徐欣瑩","李坤城","王鴻薇","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","洪孟楷","羅廷瑋","沈伯洋","黃秀芳","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","鍾佳濱","李柏毅","羅智強"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-06-05"],"gazette_id":"1135901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第22次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」：(一)審查行政院函請審議「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」\n案、(二)審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」案、(三)審查委員陳亭妃等16\n人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」案；二、「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條\n例」：(一)審查委員張嘉郡等21人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條\n條文修正草案」案、(二)審查委員吳琪銘等19人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫\n行條例第五條條文修正草案」案、(三)審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記\n不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案、(四)審查委員林岱樺等18人擬具「宗教團體以自\n然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案、 ( 五) 審查委員陳亭妃等16 人擬具\n「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案（後接第二冊）","agenda_id":"1135901_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"153633","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153633","tool":"pyannote","id":"153633-pyannote"},"job_id":"pw5GRJlC0rzYerAI","queued_at":"2024-06-05 12:58:20","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-05 12:58:59","msg":"downloading 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\"end\": 422.136, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"草\", \"start\": 422.136, \"end\": 422.176, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 422.176, \"end\": 422.376, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 422.376, \"end\": 422.497, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 422.497, \"end\": 422.597, \"score\": 0.706}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 422.597, \"end\": 423.217, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"詐\"}, {\"word\": \"欺\", \"start\": 423.217, \"end\": 423.377, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"犯\", \"start\": 423.377, \"end\": 423.537, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"罪\", \"start\": 423.537, \"end\": 424.098, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"危\", \"start\": 424.098, \"end\": 424.198, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"害\", \"start\": 424.198, \"end\": 424.258, \"score\": 0.664}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 424.258, \"end\": 424.338, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 424.338, \"end\": 424.358, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 424.358, \"end\": 424.418, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"草\", \"start\": 424.418, \"end\": 424.578, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 424.578, \"end\": 424.678, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 424.678, \"end\": 424.698, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 424.698, \"end\": 424.718, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"、\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,249 --> 00:00:11,353\n本席請行政院打詐辦公室李主任還有我們內政部劉部長行政院李主任部長好謝謝徐委員好\n\n2\n00:00:23,550 --> 00:00:37,018\n兩位好我先講一個實例本席辦公室應該說每位委員辦公室都常常接到詐騙的民眾被詐騙的案例我們要協助結果呢我們就跟\n\n3\n00:00:37,938 --> 00:01:05,605\n警察單位我們警政署來詢問怎麼辦我們民眾被詐騙了而且呢是可能是在國外這跨國詐騙結果我們得到的訊息是接電話的員警說這真的沒辦法因為我自己也被騙了一百萬所以呢台灣是詐騙的天堂這個問題出在哪裡我們今天在審這個詐欺犯罪危害防制條例\n\n4\n00:01:07,795 --> 00:01:21,060\n所有的詐騙集團他們呢靈活、創新、推陳出新但是我們呢我們這邊說打詐國家隊請問這個隊伍有辦法整合嗎部長因為你是這一個草案的這個主管單位嘛\n\n5\n00:01:28,803 --> 00:01:53,064\n我們整個有,你有辦法整合各單位嗎?報告委員,整合喔,第一個就是行政院的各部門的整合,這是一個。那目前行政院各部門在法律授權不足之下已經歷經兩三年。我知道,你不用講那個,那你有沒有辦法整合,我只問這個。現在為了整合還是要靠這個行政院整合至少四個部會,然後我們推出四個法案。行政院誰整合?\n\n6\n00:01:55,229 --> 00:02:14,065\n我們目前大概是打詐辦公室在做行政協調了打詐辦公室是李主任在整合囉李主任我聽說你的位階不夠你沒辦法指揮各部會阿跟立委報告齁其實行政院是我只要問打詐國家隊誰負責嘛是我們由\n\n7\n00:02:14,705 --> 00:02:39,205\n平常都是由政務委員在召集各部委員。現在哪一位政務委員?林明新政務委員。好,OK,所以是由政務委員。好,那接著,我們今天的這一個法案、草案啊,你又讓它這個,我們就不希望政出多門,結果你們又每一個草案裡面呢,每一個又分層負責,你根本整合不起來啊。\n\n8\n00:02:40,809 --> 00:03:01,505\n這就是最大的問題啊。我們一個團隊你沒辦法整合你就2266。這長期以來就造成我們這個詐騙者的天堂。你沒辦法整合啊。然後再來本席接著要就行政效能不彰的部分。\n\n9\n00:03:03,035 --> 00:03:10,360\n有關整合這個部分當然可能不是你們兩位的全責但是我在這邊我還是要先提出來那特別是這一次這個專法\n\n10\n00:03:12,233 --> 00:03:36,759\n是內政部是主管單位啊。內政部是主管單位,但是你法案是一部法案,但是你做事又是各自處理。對不對?你們的這個法案裡面,你哪一個是金管會,哪一個是NCC。好,OK,那請兩位先回座。本席接著請金管會同副局長,還有NCC的黃祖密,速發部的林正次。請暫停時間一下,對,等他們就位。\n\n11\n00:03:43,712 --> 00:03:47,183\n二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、\n\n12\n00:03:59,732 --> 00:04:24,421\n我們在第一線民眾是受害者的這個第一線那檢察官是打詐辦理打詐的第一線結果呢我們的檢察官改革團體建清減改他們提出說三大戰犯詐騙的三大戰犯是哪三大呢金管會數位部還有我們NCC所以\n\n13\n00:04:26,086 --> 00:04:32,876\n連第一線的檢察官都覺得我們行政部門行政效能不彰首先本席要請教金管會\n\n14\n00:04:34,144 --> 00:04:58,499\n我們大家都一直覺得檢察官也點名了無論是人頭帳戶、虛擬帳戶、網路銀行、電子支付、第三方支付或虛擬貨幣交易沒有一個跟金管會無關但是欠缺前端的行政監管那我請問你們到底哪些你們這些建議你們有沒有辦法改善\n\n15\n00:04:59,966 --> 00:05:27,460\n是,跟委員報告齁,那針對剛剛委員這邊提到說建金檢他有提到齁,就是那個虛擬貨幣這個漲值。你可不可以檢答?是。像這一些你都不管被大家引起重怒了,那你這個怎麼辦?你們現在管不管,你就回答我管不管,好不好?有,現在有在管,現在有在管。那未來的話,如果這個洗方法修正過的話,可以管制的強度會更強。好,喔所以你們都依賴這個法齁,好。OK,那再來。\n\n16\n00:05:29,003 --> 00:05:52,234\nNCC最大的問題就是你沒有管制電信業者腐爛出售的門號。所有民眾被詐騙都是這些人頭、帳號、義付卡、第二類電信申辦的大量人頭企業門號橫行,才有辦法嗎?根本沒有,事實上是從去年開始,我們就已經就頒布了執行。你們現在都管了是不是?對,我通通都管了,因為就已經在限制了。從簡訊號碼這一\n\n17\n00:05:54,515 --> 00:06:00,677\n審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、\n\n18\n00:06:15,143 --> 00:06:42,012\n你不然你書面回覆吼那我們接著我們就看你說降下來我們就是希望我們詐騙要消聲匿跡在台灣最後一個訴發部啊訴發部到底你是只負責發展不負責監管嗎呃我們也會負責監管好所以訴發部現在最後一個吼訴發部你要發展一個什麼打詐通報查詢網請問跟我們內政部警政署的1165全民防騙網有什麼不同\n\n19\n00:06:42,532 --> 00:06:44,334\n審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件。請審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具\n\n20\n00:07:00,555 --> 00:07:04,718\n審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n249\t11353\t本席請行政院打詐辦公室李主任還有我們內政部劉部長行政院李主任部長好謝謝徐委員好\n23550\t37018\t兩位好我先講一個實例本席辦公室應該說每位委員辦公室都常常接到詐騙的民眾被詐騙的案例我們要協助結果呢我們就跟\n37938\t65605\t警察單位我們警政署來詢問怎麼辦我們民眾被詐騙了而且呢是可能是在國外這跨國詐騙結果我們得到的訊息是接電話的員警說這真的沒辦法因為我自己也被騙了一百萬所以呢台灣是詐騙的天堂這個問題出在哪裡我們今天在審這個詐欺犯罪危害防制條例\n67795\t81060\t所有的詐騙集團他們呢靈活、創新、推陳出新但是我們呢我們這邊說打詐國家隊請問這個隊伍有辦法整合嗎部長因為你是這一個草案的這個主管單位嘛\n88803\t113064\t我們整個有,你有辦法整合各單位嗎?報告委員,整合喔,第一個就是行政院的各部門的整合,這是一個。那目前行政院各部門在法律授權不足之下已經歷經兩三年。我知道,你不用講那個,那你有沒有辦法整合,我只問這個。現在為了整合還是要靠這個行政院整合至少四個部會,然後我們推出四個法案。行政院誰整合?\n115229\t134065\t我們目前大概是打詐辦公室在做行政協調了打詐辦公室是李主任在整合囉李主任我聽說你的位階不夠你沒辦法指揮各部會阿跟立委報告齁其實行政院是我只要問打詐國家隊誰負責嘛是我們由\n134705\t159205\t平常都是由政務委員在召集各部委員。現在哪一位政務委員?林明新政務委員。好,OK,所以是由政務委員。好,那接著,我們今天的這一個法案、草案啊,你又讓它這個,我們就不希望政出多門,結果你們又每一個草案裡面呢,每一個又分層負責,你根本整合不起來啊。\n160809\t181505\t這就是最大的問題啊。我們一個團隊你沒辦法整合你就2266。這長期以來就造成我們這個詐騙者的天堂。你沒辦法整合啊。然後再來本席接著要就行政效能不彰的部分。\n183035\t190360\t有關整合這個部分當然可能不是你們兩位的全責但是我在這邊我還是要先提出來那特別是這一次這個專法\n192233\t216759\t是內政部是主管單位啊。內政部是主管單位,但是你法案是一部法案,但是你做事又是各自處理。對不對?你們的這個法案裡面,你哪一個是金管會,哪一個是NCC。好,OK,那請兩位先回座。本席接著請金管會同副局長,還有NCC的黃祖密,速發部的林正次。請暫停時間一下,對,等他們就位。\n223712\t227183\t二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、\n239732\t264421\t我們在第一線民眾是受害者的這個第一線那檢察官是打詐辦理打詐的第一線結果呢我們的檢察官改革團體建清減改他們提出說三大戰犯詐騙的三大戰犯是哪三大呢金管會數位部還有我們NCC所以\n266086\t272876\t連第一線的檢察官都覺得我們行政部門行政效能不彰首先本席要請教金管會\n274144\t298499\t我們大家都一直覺得檢察官也點名了無論是人頭帳戶、虛擬帳戶、網路銀行、電子支付、第三方支付或虛擬貨幣交易沒有一個跟金管會無關但是欠缺前端的行政監管那我請問你們到底哪些你們這些建議你們有沒有辦法改善\n299966\t327460\t是,跟委員報告齁,那針對剛剛委員這邊提到說建金檢他有提到齁,就是那個虛擬貨幣這個漲值。你可不可以檢答?是。像這一些你都不管被大家引起重怒了,那你這個怎麼辦?你們現在管不管,你就回答我管不管,好不好?有,現在有在管,現在有在管。那未來的話,如果這個洗方法修正過的話,可以管制的強度會更強。好,喔所以你們都依賴這個法齁,好。OK,那再來。\n329003\t352234\tNCC最大的問題就是你沒有管制電信業者腐爛出售的門號。所有民眾被詐騙都是這些人頭、帳號、義付卡、第二類電信申辦的大量人頭企業門號橫行,才有辦法嗎?根本沒有,事實上是從去年開始,我們就已經就頒布了執行。你們現在都管了是不是?對,我通通都管了,因為就已經在限制了。從簡訊號碼這一\n354515\t360677\t審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、\n375143\t402012\t你不然你書面回覆吼那我們接著我們就看你說降下來我們就是希望我們詐騙要消聲匿跡在台灣最後一個訴發部啊訴發部到底你是只負責發展不負責監管嗎呃我們也會負責監管好所以訴發部現在最後一個吼訴發部你要發展一個什麼打詐通報查詢網請問跟我們內政部警政署的1165全民防騙網有什麼不同\n402532\t404334\t審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件。 請審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具\n420555\t424718\t審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、\n","txt":"本席請行政院打詐辦公室李主任還有我們內政部劉部長行政院李主任部長好謝謝徐委員好\n兩位好我先講一個實例本席辦公室應該說每位委員辦公室都常常接到詐騙的民眾被詐騙的案例我們要協助結果呢我們就跟\n警察單位我們警政署來詢問怎麼辦我們民眾被詐騙了而且呢是可能是在國外這跨國詐騙結果我們得到的訊息是接電話的員警說這真的沒辦法因為我自己也被騙了一百萬所以呢台灣是詐騙的天堂這個問題出在哪裡我們今天在審這個詐欺犯罪危害防制條例\n所有的詐騙集團他們呢靈活、創新、推陳出新但是我們呢我們這邊說打詐國家隊請問這個隊伍有辦法整合嗎部長因為你是這一個草案的這個主管單位嘛\n我們整個有,你有辦法整合各單位嗎?報告委員,整合喔,第一個就是行政院的各部門的整合,這是一個。那目前行政院各部門在法律授權不足之下已經歷經兩三年。我知道,你不用講那個,那你有沒有辦法整合,我只問這個。現在為了整合還是要靠這個行政院整合至少四個部會,然後我們推出四個法案。行政院誰整合?\n我們目前大概是打詐辦公室在做行政協調了打詐辦公室是李主任在整合囉李主任我聽說你的位階不夠你沒辦法指揮各部會阿跟立委報告齁其實行政院是我只要問打詐國家隊誰負責嘛是我們由\n平常都是由政務委員在召集各部委員。現在哪一位政務委員?林明新政務委員。好,OK,所以是由政務委員。好,那接著,我們今天的這一個法案、草案啊,你又讓它這個,我們就不希望政出多門,結果你們又每一個草案裡面呢,每一個又分層負責,你根本整合不起來啊。\n這就是最大的問題啊。我們一個團隊你沒辦法整合你就2266。這長期以來就造成我們這個詐騙者的天堂。你沒辦法整合啊。然後再來本席接著要就行政效能不彰的部分。\n有關整合這個部分當然可能不是你們兩位的全責但是我在這邊我還是要先提出來那特別是這一次這個專法\n是內政部是主管單位啊。內政部是主管單位,但是你法案是一部法案,但是你做事又是各自處理。對不對?你們的這個法案裡面,你哪一個是金管會,哪一個是NCC。好,OK,那請兩位先回座。本席接著請金管會同副局長,還有NCC的黃祖密,速發部的林正次。請暫停時間一下,對,等他們就位。\n二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、\n我們在第一線民眾是受害者的這個第一線那檢察官是打詐辦理打詐的第一線結果呢我們的檢察官改革團體建清減改他們提出說三大戰犯詐騙的三大戰犯是哪三大呢金管會數位部還有我們NCC所以\n連第一線的檢察官都覺得我們行政部門行政效能不彰首先本席要請教金管會\n我們大家都一直覺得檢察官也點名了無論是人頭帳戶、虛擬帳戶、網路銀行、電子支付、第三方支付或虛擬貨幣交易沒有一個跟金管會無關但是欠缺前端的行政監管那我請問你們到底哪些你們這些建議你們有沒有辦法改善\n是,跟委員報告齁,那針對剛剛委員這邊提到說建金檢他有提到齁,就是那個虛擬貨幣這個漲值。你可不可以檢答?是。像這一些你都不管被大家引起重怒了,那你這個怎麼辦?你們現在管不管,你就回答我管不管,好不好?有,現在有在管,現在有在管。那未來的話,如果這個洗方法修正過的話,可以管制的強度會更強。好,喔所以你們都依賴這個法齁,好。OK,那再來。\nNCC最大的問題就是你沒有管制電信業者腐爛出售的門號。所有民眾被詐騙都是這些人頭、帳號、義付卡、第二類電信申辦的大量人頭企業門號橫行,才有辦法嗎?根本沒有,事實上是從去年開始,我們就已經就頒布了執行。你們現在都管了是不是?對,我通通都管了,因為就已經在限制了。從簡訊號碼這一\n審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、\n你不然你書面回覆吼那我們接著我們就看你說降下來我們就是希望我們詐騙要消聲匿跡在台灣最後一個訴發部啊訴發部到底你是只負責發展不負責監管嗎呃我們也會負責監管好所以訴發部現在最後一個吼訴發部你要發展一個什麼打詐通報查詢網請問跟我們內政部警政署的1165全民防騙網有什麼不同\n審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件。 請審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具\n審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.249 --> 00:11.353\n本席請行政院打詐辦公室李主任還有我們內政部劉部長行政院李主任部長好謝謝徐委員好\n\n00:23.550 --> 00:37.018\n兩位好我先講一個實例本席辦公室應該說每位委員辦公室都常常接到詐騙的民眾被詐騙的案例我們要協助結果呢我們就跟\n\n00:37.938 --> 01:05.605\n警察單位我們警政署來詢問怎麼辦我們民眾被詐騙了而且呢是可能是在國外這跨國詐騙結果我們得到的訊息是接電話的員警說這真的沒辦法因為我自己也被騙了一百萬所以呢台灣是詐騙的天堂這個問題出在哪裡我們今天在審這個詐欺犯罪危害防制條例\n\n01:07.795 --> 01:21.060\n所有的詐騙集團他們呢靈活、創新、推陳出新但是我們呢我們這邊說打詐國家隊請問這個隊伍有辦法整合嗎部長因為你是這一個草案的這個主管單位嘛\n\n01:28.803 --> 01:53.064\n我們整個有,你有辦法整合各單位嗎?報告委員,整合喔,第一個就是行政院的各部門的整合,這是一個。那目前行政院各部門在法律授權不足之下已經歷經兩三年。我知道,你不用講那個,那你有沒有辦法整合,我只問這個。現在為了整合還是要靠這個行政院整合至少四個部會,然後我們推出四個法案。行政院誰整合?\n\n01:55.229 --> 02:14.065\n我們目前大概是打詐辦公室在做行政協調了打詐辦公室是李主任在整合囉李主任我聽說你的位階不夠你沒辦法指揮各部會阿跟立委報告齁其實行政院是我只要問打詐國家隊誰負責嘛是我們由\n\n02:14.705 --> 02:39.205\n平常都是由政務委員在召集各部委員。現在哪一位政務委員?林明新政務委員。好,OK,所以是由政務委員。好,那接著,我們今天的這一個法案、草案啊,你又讓它這個,我們就不希望政出多門,結果你們又每一個草案裡面呢,每一個又分層負責,你根本整合不起來啊。\n\n02:40.809 --> 03:01.505\n這就是最大的問題啊。我們一個團隊你沒辦法整合你就2266。這長期以來就造成我們這個詐騙者的天堂。你沒辦法整合啊。然後再來本席接著要就行政效能不彰的部分。\n\n03:03.035 --> 03:10.360\n有關整合這個部分當然可能不是你們兩位的全責但是我在這邊我還是要先提出來那特別是這一次這個專法\n\n03:12.233 --> 03:36.759\n是內政部是主管單位啊。內政部是主管單位,但是你法案是一部法案,但是你做事又是各自處理。對不對?你們的這個法案裡面,你哪一個是金管會,哪一個是NCC。好,OK,那請兩位先回座。本席接著請金管會同副局長,還有NCC的黃祖密,速發部的林正次。請暫停時間一下,對,等他們就位。\n\n03:43.712 --> 03:47.183\n二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、\n\n03:59.732 --> 04:24.421\n我們在第一線民眾是受害者的這個第一線那檢察官是打詐辦理打詐的第一線結果呢我們的檢察官改革團體建清減改他們提出說三大戰犯詐騙的三大戰犯是哪三大呢金管會數位部還有我們NCC所以\n\n04:26.086 --> 04:32.876\n連第一線的檢察官都覺得我們行政部門行政效能不彰首先本席要請教金管會\n\n04:34.144 --> 04:58.499\n我們大家都一直覺得檢察官也點名了無論是人頭帳戶、虛擬帳戶、網路銀行、電子支付、第三方支付或虛擬貨幣交易沒有一個跟金管會無關但是欠缺前端的行政監管那我請問你們到底哪些你們這些建議你們有沒有辦法改善\n\n04:59.966 --> 05:27.460\n是,跟委員報告齁,那針對剛剛委員這邊提到說建金檢他有提到齁,就是那個虛擬貨幣這個漲值。你可不可以檢答?是。像這一些你都不管被大家引起重怒了,那你這個怎麼辦?你們現在管不管,你就回答我管不管,好不好?有,現在有在管,現在有在管。那未來的話,如果這個洗方法修正過的話,可以管制的強度會更強。好,喔所以你們都依賴這個法齁,好。OK,那再來。\n\n05:29.003 --> 05:52.234\nNCC最大的問題就是你沒有管制電信業者腐爛出售的門號。所有民眾被詐騙都是這些人頭、帳號、義付卡、第二類電信申辦的大量人頭企業門號橫行,才有辦法嗎?根本沒有,事實上是從去年開始,我們就已經就頒布了執行。你們現在都管了是不是?對,我通通都管了,因為就已經在限制了。從簡訊號碼這一\n\n05:54.515 --> 06:00.677\n審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、\n\n06:15.143 --> 06:42.012\n你不然你書面回覆吼那我們接著我們就看你說降下來我們就是希望我們詐騙要消聲匿跡在台灣最後一個訴發部啊訴發部到底你是只負責發展不負責監管嗎呃我們也會負責監管好所以訴發部現在最後一個吼訴發部你要發展一個什麼打詐通報查詢網請問跟我們內政部警政署的1165全民防騙網有什麼不同\n\n06:42.532 --> 06:44.334\n審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件。請審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具\n\n07:00.555 --> 07:04.718\n審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.249,"end":11.353,"text":"本席請行政院打詐辦公室李主任還有我們內政部劉部長行政院李主任部長好謝謝徐委員好"},{"start":23.55,"end":37.018,"text":"兩位好我先講一個實例本席辦公室應該說每位委員辦公室都常常接到詐騙的民眾被詐騙的案例我們要協助結果呢我們就跟"},{"start":37.938,"end":65.605,"text":"警察單位我們警政署來詢問怎麼辦我們民眾被詐騙了而且呢是可能是在國外這跨國詐騙結果我們得到的訊息是接電話的員警說這真的沒辦法因為我自己也被騙了一百萬所以呢台灣是詐騙的天堂這個問題出在哪裡我們今天在審這個詐欺犯罪危害防制條例"},{"start":67.795,"end":81.06,"text":"所有的詐騙集團他們呢靈活、創新、推陳出新但是我們呢我們這邊說打詐國家隊請問這個隊伍有辦法整合嗎部長因為你是這一個草案的這個主管單位嘛"},{"start":88.803,"end":113.064,"text":"我們整個有,你有辦法整合各單位嗎?報告委員,整合喔,第一個就是行政院的各部門的整合,這是一個。那目前行政院各部門在法律授權不足之下已經歷經兩三年。我知道,你不用講那個,那你有沒有辦法整合,我只問這個。現在為了整合還是要靠這個行政院整合至少四個部會,然後我們推出四個法案。行政院誰整合?"},{"start":115.229,"end":134.065,"text":"我們目前大概是打詐辦公室在做行政協調了打詐辦公室是李主任在整合囉李主任我聽說你的位階不夠你沒辦法指揮各部會阿跟立委報告齁其實行政院是我只要問打詐國家隊誰負責嘛是我們由"},{"start":134.705,"end":159.205,"text":"平常都是由政務委員在召集各部委員。現在哪一位政務委員?林明新政務委員。好,OK,所以是由政務委員。好,那接著,我們今天的這一個法案、草案啊,你又讓它這個,我們就不希望政出多門,結果你們又每一個草案裡面呢,每一個又分層負責,你根本整合不起來啊。"},{"start":160.809,"end":181.505,"text":"這就是最大的問題啊。我們一個團隊你沒辦法整合你就2266。這長期以來就造成我們這個詐騙者的天堂。你沒辦法整合啊。然後再來本席接著要就行政效能不彰的部分。"},{"start":183.035,"end":190.36,"text":"有關整合這個部分當然可能不是你們兩位的全責但是我在這邊我還是要先提出來那特別是這一次這個專法"},{"start":192.233,"end":216.759,"text":"是內政部是主管單位啊。內政部是主管單位,但是你法案是一部法案,但是你做事又是各自處理。對不對?你們的這個法案裡面,你哪一個是金管會,哪一個是NCC。好,OK,那請兩位先回座。本席接著請金管會同副局長,還有NCC的黃祖密,速發部的林正次。請暫停時間一下,對,等他們就位。"},{"start":223.712,"end":227.183,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、"},{"start":239.732,"end":264.421,"text":"我們在第一線民眾是受害者的這個第一線那檢察官是打詐辦理打詐的第一線結果呢我們的檢察官改革團體建清減改他們提出說三大戰犯詐騙的三大戰犯是哪三大呢金管會數位部還有我們NCC所以"},{"start":266.086,"end":272.876,"text":"連第一線的檢察官都覺得我們行政部門行政效能不彰首先本席要請教金管會"},{"start":274.144,"end":298.499,"text":"我們大家都一直覺得檢察官也點名了無論是人頭帳戶、虛擬帳戶、網路銀行、電子支付、第三方支付或虛擬貨幣交易沒有一個跟金管會無關但是欠缺前端的行政監管那我請問你們到底哪些你們這些建議你們有沒有辦法改善"},{"start":299.966,"end":327.46,"text":"是,跟委員報告齁,那針對剛剛委員這邊提到說建金檢他有提到齁,就是那個虛擬貨幣這個漲值。你可不可以檢答?是。像這一些你都不管被大家引起重怒了,那你這個怎麼辦?你們現在管不管,你就回答我管不管,好不好?有,現在有在管,現在有在管。那未來的話,如果這個洗方法修正過的話,可以管制的強度會更強。好,喔所以你們都依賴這個法齁,好。OK,那再來。"},{"start":329.003,"end":352.234,"text":"NCC最大的問題就是你沒有管制電信業者腐爛出售的門號。所有民眾被詐騙都是這些人頭、帳號、義付卡、第二類電信申辦的大量人頭企業門號橫行,才有辦法嗎?根本沒有,事實上是從去年開始,我們就已經就頒布了執行。你們現在都管了是不是?對,我通通都管了,因為就已經在限制了。從簡訊號碼這一"},{"start":354.515,"end":360.677,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、"},{"start":375.143,"end":402.012,"text":"你不然你書面回覆吼那我們接著我們就看你說降下來我們就是希望我們詐騙要消聲匿跡在台灣最後一個訴發部啊訴發部到底你是只負責發展不負責監管嗎呃我們也會負責監管好所以訴發部現在最後一個吼訴發部你要發展一個什麼打詐通報查詢網請問跟我們內政部警政署的1165全民防騙網有什麼不同"},{"start":402.532,"end":404.334,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件。 請審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具"},{"start":420.555,"end":424.718,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、"}]}}}}