{"id":153635,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153635","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/18e54f584c581c98597be7db308735bf155b271690f57e8efc6f3e651eb006590ad873e55dcd76e05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李坤城","委員發言時間":"11:38:25 - 11:47:05","影片長度":"00:08:40","會議時間":"2024-06-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：一、「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」：(一)審查行政院函請審議「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」案。(二)審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」案。(三)審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」案。【第(二)案、第(三)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】二、「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例」：(一)審查委員張嘉郡等21人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。(二)審查委員吳琪銘等19人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。(四)審查委員林岱樺等18人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。【第(二)案至第(五)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】三、「海洋保育法草案」：(一)繼續審查行政院函請審議「海洋保育法草案」案。(二)繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等20人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(三)繼續審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(四)繼續審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(五)繼續審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(六)繼續審查委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(七)繼續審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(八)繼續審查委員蘇巧慧等16人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(九)繼續審查委員羅美玲等17人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十)繼續審查委員許宇甄等20人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十一)繼續審查委員莊瑞雄等20人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十二)繼續審查委員洪申翰等16人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十三)繼續審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十四)繼續審查委員賴瑞隆等18人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十五)繼續審查委員高金素梅等22人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十六)繼續審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十七)繼續審查委員蔡易餘等19人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十八)繼續審查委員吳琪銘等18人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-05","start_time":"2024-06-05T11:38:25+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-05T11:47:05+08:00","duration":520,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-22"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":988,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（11時38分）謝謝主席，請劉部長，還有數發部林次長。"],["主席：劉部長，還有數位發展部的林次長。"],["劉部長世芳：李委員好。"],["林次長宜敬：委員好。"],["李委員坤城：部長好。這個打詐專法我是非常地關心，我在立委就任之後，我提的第一個法案就是打詐專法，然後很幸運在2月23日付委，交付司法法制委員會審查。在3月12日我的第一次施政總質詢，我也問當時的行政院長陳建仁，我問他打詐專法何時能夠送到立法院來審查，他說希望在他卸任之前，520之前能夠送到立法院，然後果然很有效率，在5月9日行政院就通過打詐四法的草案，在5月17日交付委員會審查。我也謝謝主席今天特別安排這個打詐專法，我們都希望在7月16日立法院休會之前，打詐專法四法都能夠通過，我相信這是大家共同的心願。","我的打詐專法跟院版比起來，當然院版會比較豐富，因為你們有包含內政部、法務部、數發部、金管會等等，但是我先給部長及次長看一張照片，現在黃仁勳來到臺灣，一頁式的詐騙廣告就如影隨形地出來了，我想請問次長，如果這個打詐專法通過之後，因為你說要採實名制嘛！對不對？在你們的草案裡面第三十條是要採實名制，在第三十一條裡面，廣告也要揭露必要的訊息嘛！甚至第三十條第二款也提到平臺業者要主動實施預防、偵測、辨識、應對詐欺的防制計畫等等，所以我請教一下，如果這個打詐專法通過之後，類似這種一頁式的詐騙廣告，名人的詐騙廣告還會再出現嗎？"],["林次長宜敬：這個打詐專法通過以後，像假冒黃仁勳身分這種廣告就不會出現了，因為它有這個義務，必須去確認這是黃仁勳本人授權刊登的廣告。"],["李委員坤城：所以採實名制之後就不會再出現了？"],["林次長宜敬：就不會再出現了。"],["李委員坤城：好，說到這個就要提到，現在採實名制的平臺業者有哪些？"],["林次長宜敬：現在像臉書，它是政治性廣告都採實名制。"],["李委員坤城：對啊！我們都採實名制了啊！"],["林次長宜敬：對，但是它其他的廣告沒有採實名制。我們這個打詐專法就是希望他們其他的廣告，尤其是投資方面的廣告，他們要採用實名制。"],["李委員坤城：Google現在有採實名制了嗎？"],["呂署長正華：跟委員補充，Google也有採實名制。"],["李委員坤城：Google有採實名制了。"],["呂署長正華：對，它是因為政治的部分之前要求得深；在投資的部分，我們在這邊請它要做KYC，而且要實名制。"],["李委員坤城：好，現在不管是LINE、臉書，還有Google，在打詐專法通過之後，都會要求他們採實名制，對不對？"],["林次長宜敬：是。"],["李委員坤城：然後像這一種，不論是黃仁勳、謝金河之類的，這種一頁式的詐騙廣告就不會再出現了嗎？"],["林次長宜敬：是，這種假冒身分的一頁式廣告應該就不會再出現了。"],["李委員坤城：應該。"],["林次長宜敬：對，因為如果出現的話，他們就有法律的責任，這些廣告平臺就有法律責任。"],["李委員坤城：好，因為我看你們是有相關的法律條文，也有罰則，對不對？"],["林次長宜敬：是，有罰則。"],["李委員坤城：我再請教一下，我的法案裡面有兩項是行政院版沒有的，一個就是，你犯了打詐專法經判決有罪確定者，不得登記為公職人員候選人，那我不曉得打詐專法通過之後，就這部分來講，他如果是屬於組織犯罪，我們在刑法裡面也有規定啊！如果是組織犯罪有排黑條款，那在打詐專法通過之後，如果是屬於組織犯罪的，有沒有排黑條款──不得參選，不得為候選人？有沒有這一條？"],["劉部長世芳：沒有。"],["李委員坤城：沒有這一條？"],["劉部長世芳：沒有，目前沒有。"],["李委員坤城：來。"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，目前我們在打詐專法裡面並沒有把這一條放進去。"],["李委員坤城：我是建議可以放進去啦！因為他是違反了刑法，刑法裡面有一條是排黑，它就是有關詐欺、組織犯罪的，在第三百三十九條之四有四款，其中有一款是犯三人以上的詐欺的話，它有在排黑條款裡面。"],["劉部長世芳：是，那是在公職選罷法裡面所規定的部分，包括國安五法或者是組織犯罪，或者是其他的貪污治罪條例裡面，所以如果可以引用公職選罷法的話，我們並不反對，但是在目前的打詐專法裡面，我們並沒有把它單獨臚列進去。"],["李委員坤城：我是建議啦！因為在選罷法的排黑條款裡面也有把詐欺列進去，是不是要在打詐專法裡面再列進去，在逐條討論的時候我們再來討論。","第二個，有關詐欺量刑準則的制定，因為大家都覺得，每次都判得很輕啦！判得很輕就是因為我們沒有一定的量刑準則，所以是不是能夠制定詐欺量刑準則，把它入法，讓法官在判刑的時候有一定的標準？"],["劉部長世芳：我們只有具體求刑。"],["李委員坤城：具體求刑。"],["劉部長世芳：對。"],["李委員坤城：那具體求刑是多少？"],["劉部長世芳：要看他是……"],["李委員坤城：我的意思是說，為什麼大家覺得有一些詐騙被抓到的時候就判很輕？這也是民怨啊！"],["徐次長錫祥：報告委員，我想輕重我們還要尊重法官的判決。"],["李委員坤城：當然是尊重法官判決，所以我才會說是不是有一個量刑的標準。"],["徐次長錫祥：量刑標準，在司法院他們本身會制定一定的量刑標準，那我們檢察官的立場，針對案件的嚴重程度，我們在起訴的時候就會具體求刑。"],["李委員坤城：對，我的意思是說，司法院有個「刑事案件妥適量刑法草案」，這個目前還沒有嘛！那我的意思是說，因為大家對於詐騙抓到輕判，有很多真的是輕判喔！有一個數字是說判不到半年的大概占5成以上，都是輕判，所以我才會建議待會在具體條文討論的時候，能夠把刑事案件的量刑標準也納進去，讓法官在判刑的時候至少有一個標準跟準則，不是全部都是法官的自由心證。"],["徐次長錫祥：這個在立法上比較少見到，可能要請司法院的人來說明一下，因為比較少這樣子放下去，這個好像是法官的審判核心的問題。"],["李委員坤城：司法院要不要做一個說明？我的問題在於說，因為現在大家認為抓到都輕判，是不是能夠有一個量刑的準則？"],["陳副廳長信旗：報告委員，我們之前有一個妥適量刑法的草案，在上個會期因為沒有審查，所以就退回司法院這邊繼續研議。那我也在想，因為量刑這個部分涉及到比較多的層面，它不適合只是用一個條文來顯示，它比較適合用一個通盤性的研議方式，而且整個研議的機關也必須要獨立化，所以是不是由一個條文就能夠訂一個量刑準則，我覺得這邊恐怕會有一些疑慮。"],["李委員坤城：好，所以你們這個草案在這個會期也沒有再送過來？"],["陳副廳長信旗：我們這個會期有繼續要再研議。"],["李委員坤城：好。我的問題在於說，其實部長，我們都來自民意代表，有時候這個都輕判啦！如何顯現在條文裡面，不要讓民眾認為每次抓到都是輕判的，那個精神能夠在討論的時候把它放進去。"],["劉部長世芳：是，李委員用心良苦，我們來努力。"],["李委員坤城：好。"],["劉部長世芳：我們知道大家有很大的民怨，要怎麼樣解決民怨，也是我們應該做的。"],["李委員坤城：對，好，謝謝部長、謝謝主席！"],["主席：謝謝李坤城委員的質詢。","下一位請王鴻薇委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":302,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-22","speakers":["吳琪銘","黃珊珊","王美惠","陳亭妃","蘇巧慧","張宏陸","牛煦庭","麥玉珍","黃建賓","許宇甄","黃捷","高金素梅","張智倫","丁學忠","徐欣瑩","李坤城","王鴻薇","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","洪孟楷","羅廷瑋","沈伯洋","黃秀芳","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","鍾佳濱","李柏毅","羅智強"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-06-05"],"gazette_id":"1135901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第22次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」：(一)審查行政院函請審議「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」\n案、(二)審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」案、(三)審查委員陳亭妃等16\n人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」案；二、「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條\n例」：(一)審查委員張嘉郡等21人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條\n條文修正草案」案、(二)審查委員吳琪銘等19人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫\n行條例第五條條文修正草案」案、(三)審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記\n不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案、(四)審查委員林岱樺等18人擬具「宗教團體以自\n然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案、 ( 五) 審查委員陳亭妃等16 人擬具\n「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案（後接第二冊）","agenda_id":"1135901_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"153635","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153635","tool":"pyannote","id":"153635-pyannote"},"job_id":"Bz2tP5Ydngj8TJI2","queued_at":"2024-06-05 12:55:47","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-05 12:56:26","msg":"downloading 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\"text\": \"有還有在排二條款裡面啦是那在公職選罷法裡面所規定的部分包括國安無法或者是組織犯罪齁或者是其他的貪污自罪條例裡面所以如果可以引用公職選罷法的話我們並不反對但是在目前的這個打詐專法裡面我們並沒有把它單獨盧列進去\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 285.694, \"end\": 285.954, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 285.954, \"end\": 286.114, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 286.114, \"end\": 286.254, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"排\", \"start\": 286.254, \"end\": 286.394, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 286.394, \"end\": 286.675, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"款\", \"start\": 286.675, \"end\": 286.955, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 286.955, \"end\": 287.155, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 287.155, \"end\": 288.375, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 288.375, \"end\": 288.555, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 288.555, \"end\": 288.696, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 288.696, \"end\": 288.876, 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327.29, \"text\": \"那我是建議啦,因為這個我們在這個選罷法的這個排在條款裡面也有這一個把這個詐欺把它列進去啦那是不是要在這一個打造專法裡面再列進去這個我們主條討論的時候我們再來討論啦那第二個就是說有關這個詐欺量刑準則的制定啦因為大家都覺得說,哇這個12次每次都判得很輕啦\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 304.104, \"end\": 304.464, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 304.464, \"end\": 304.584, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 304.584, \"end\": 304.724, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 304.724, \"end\": 305.024, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 305.024, \"end\": 305.565, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 305.565, \"end\": 306.085, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 306.085, \"end\": 306.285, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 306.285, \"end\": 307.185, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"罷\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 307.185, \"end\": 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00:00:57,212\n他那時候提到說希望在他卸任之前520之前能夠送到這個立法院那果然很有效率在5月9號的時候這個行政院就通過這個草案打詐釋法然後呢這個在5月17號的時候也交付委員會審查那我也謝謝主席今天特別安排這個打詐專法我們大家都希望在7月16號之前立法院休會之前這個打詐專法釋法\n\n4\n00:00:58,453 --> 00:01:07,657\n二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、\n\n5\n00:01:26,925 --> 00:01:40,063\n這個詐騙的一頁式的詐騙廣告一樣如影隨形就出來了那我想請問一下次長如果我們這個打造算法通過之後因為你說要採實名制嘛對不對在你們這個草案裡面30條就是說你們要採這個實名制\n\n6\n00:01:41,204 --> 00:02:00,444\n然後在這個三十一條裡面廣告也要介入必要的訊息嘛那甚至三十條第二款也提到說這個平台業者要主動實施預防偵測辨識應對詐欺的防制計畫等等所以我請教一下如果這個打詐專法通過之後像類似這一種一夜市的詐騙廣告名人的詐騙廣告還會再出現嗎\n\n7\n00:02:03,647 --> 00:02:18,462\n打造專法通過以後,假冒黃仁勳身份這種廣告就不會出現了,因為他有這個義務必須去確認這是黃仁勳本人授權刊登的廣告。所以就採實名制之後,就不會再出現了。說到這個就提到說,現在採實名制的平台業者有哪些?\n\n8\n00:02:23,234 --> 00:02:29,857\n審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、\n\n9\n00:02:45,219 --> 00:03:10,777\n跟委員補充,Google也有採實名制,但是因為政治的就是之前要求的深,所以這個投資的部分我們在這邊請他要做KYC,而且要實名制。好,那現在臉書,現在就是說不管是LINE、臉書還有Google,在打詐、專法通過之後都會要求他們要採實名制嘛,對不對?然後就是說像這一種不論是黃榮勛、謝金河之類的,這種一夜市詐騙廣告就不會再出現了嗎?\n\n10\n00:03:11,477 --> 00:03:39,254\n是,這種假冒身份的業業式廣告應該就不會再出現了。應該?對,因為如果出現的話,他們就有法律的責任,這些廣告平台就有法律責任。好,因為我看你們相關的這個條文是有相關的法律的條文,也有罰則嘛,對不對?是,有罰則。好,那我再請教一下,我的這個法案裡面有兩項是行政院版沒有的啦。有一個就是說這個,如果你是犯打造專法、經判決有罪確定者、不得登記為公職人員的候選人,\n\n11\n00:03:40,194 --> 00:04:03,748\n那我不曉得說這個打詐專法通過之後就這部分來講咧就是因為他如果是屬於這個組織犯罪那我們在刑法裡面有規定啊如果是組織犯罪的話有排黑條款那如果是這一個在打詐專法通過之後那是屬於這一個組織犯罪的那他有沒有排黑條款不得參選不得這個為候選人有沒有這一條\n\n12\n00:04:07,967 --> 00:04:13,436\n審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具《詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案》案。\n\n13\n00:04:18,472 --> 00:04:29,518\n我是建議可以放進去,因為它是違反了刑法裡面有一條是有關詐欺組織犯罪的,這個應該是有339條之四,有下面四款,其中有一款是有犯三人以上的詐欺的話,\n\n14\n00:04:45,694 --> 00:05:01,842\n有還有在排二條款裡面啦是那在公職選罷法裡面所規定的部分包括國安無法或者是組織犯罪齁或者是其他的貪污自罪條例裡面所以如果可以引用公職選罷法的話我們並不反對但是在目前的這個打詐專法裡面我們並沒有把它單獨盧列進去\n\n15\n00:05:04,104 --> 00:05:27,290\n那我是建議啦,因為這個我們在這個選罷法的這個排在條款裡面也有這一個把這個詐欺把它列進去啦那是不是要在這一個打造專法裡面再列進去這個我們主條討論的時候我們再來討論啦那第二個就是說有關這個詐欺量刑準則的制定啦因為大家都覺得說,哇這個12次每次都判得很輕啦\n\n16\n00:05:28,070 --> 00:05:49,931\n判得很輕就是說我們這個沒有這個一定的量刑的準則所以說是不是能夠把這個詐欺量刑準則把它制定入法然後呢讓這一個法官在這個判刑的時候呢有一定的標準我們只有具體求刑具體求刑那具體求刑是多少\n\n17\n00:05:52,204 --> 00:05:58,853\n對、那我的意思啦就是說現在為什麼大家覺得說啊有些這個詐騙抓到的時候就判很輕欸這也是民怨啊\n\n18\n00:06:00,206 --> 00:06:24,057\n報告委員我想輕重我們要尊重法官的判決當然是尊重法官判決所以我才說是不是有一個量刑的一個標準啊量刑標準在司法院他們自己本身會制定一定的量刑的標準那我們檢察官的立場大概就我們會對這個案件的嚴重程度我們會在起訴的時候我們就會具體求刑\n\n19\n00:06:26,618 --> 00:06:44,055\n我的意思是說司法院還有一個刑事案件妥適量刑罰草案這個目前還沒有我的意思是說因為大家對於這個詐騙抓到輕判有很多真的是輕判有一個數字就是說好像是判不到半年的大概占五成以上\n\n20\n00:06:45,083 --> 00:07:05,164\n都是輕判,所以我才會建議說是不是在我們的這個待會在具體條文的時候討論的時候能夠把這一個行事案件這一個量刑的這一個標準也把它納進去啦。當然那法官在判刑的時候他有一個至少有一個標準給他準則,就是不是全部都是法官的自由行政。\n\n21\n00:07:05,724 --> 00:07:05,924\n審查委員陳亭妃\n\n22\n00:07:26,616 --> 00:07:41,526\n那是不是能夠有一個量刑的一個準則啦?包委員,我們之前有一個那個《妥適量刑法》的草案,那在上個會期因為沒有審查,所以就特別那個司法院這邊繼續研議,\n\n23\n00:07:43,047 --> 00:08:05,545\n那我才想說因為量刑這個部分涉及到比較多的層面啦它不適合只是用一個條文就來顯示它比較適合用一個通盤性的研議的方式那而且它整個研議的機關也必須要獨立化所以是不是有一個條文就能夠把它定一個量刑準則我覺得這邊恐怕會有一些疑慮啦好那所以你們這個還沒有再這個會期也沒有再送過來我們這個會期有繼續要再研議\n\n24\n00:08:06,966 --> 00:08:34,769\n好啊,那我的問題在於說齁,其實部長我們都來自民意代表齁,就是說有時候齁,這個都侵犯啦齁,那侵犯如何顯現在這個條文裡面,不要讓民眾有認為說啊每次抓到那個都是侵犯的這個精神能夠在討論的時候能夠放進去這樣子啦。是,李委員用心良苦,我們來努力。我們都知道說大家都有很大的民怨,要怎麼樣解決民怨也是我們應該做的。好,謝謝,謝謝部長,謝謝,謝謝主席。\n\n25\n00:08:38,554 --> 00:08:40,210\n好,謝謝我們李昆城委員的支持。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2172\t5036\t打詐專法 打詐專法 打詐專法 打詐專法\n15089\t31449\t很幸運在2月23號這個副委這個教父這個司法法制委員會審查然後在3月12號的我的第一次的施政總諮詢我也問當時這個我們的行政院長陳建仁那時候我問他說這個打詐專法何時能夠送到這個立法院來做審查\n32290\t57212\t他那時候提到說希望在他卸任之前520之前能夠送到這個立法院那果然很有效率在5月9號的時候這個行政院就通過這個草案打詐釋法然後呢這個在5月17號的時候也交付委員會審查那我也謝謝主席今天特別安排這個打詐專法我們大家都希望在7月16號之前立法院休會之前這個打詐專法釋法\n58453\t67657\t二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、\n86925\t100063\t這個詐騙的一頁式的詐騙廣告一樣如影隨形就出來了那我想請問一下次長如果我們這個打造算法通過之後因為你說要採實名制嘛對不對在你們這個草案裡面30條就是說你們要採這個實名制\n101204\t120444\t然後在這個三十一條裡面廣告也要介入必要的訊息嘛那甚至三十條第二款也提到說這個平台業者要主動實施預防偵測辨識應對詐欺的防制計畫等等所以我請教一下如果這個打詐專法通過之後像類似這一種一夜市的詐騙廣告名人的詐騙廣告還會再出現嗎\n123647\t138462\t打造專法通過以後,假冒黃仁勳身份這種廣告就不會出現了,因為他有這個義務必須去確認這是黃仁勳本人授權刊登的廣告。所以就採實名制之後,就不會再出現了。說到這個就提到說,現在採實名制的平台業者有哪些?\n143234\t149857\t審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、\n165219\t190777\t跟委員補充,Google也有採實名制,但是因為政治的就是之前要求的深,所以這個投資的部分我們在這邊請他要做KYC,而且要實名制。好,那現在臉書,現在就是說不管是LINE、臉書還有Google,在打詐、專法通過之後都會要求他們要採實名制嘛,對不對?然後就是說像這一種不論是黃榮勛、謝金河之類的,這種一夜市詐騙廣告就不會再出現了嗎?\n191477\t219254\t是,這種假冒身份的業業式廣告應該就不會再出現了。應該?對,因為如果出現的話,他們就有法律的責任,這些廣告平台就有法律責任。好,因為我看你們相關的這個條文是有相關的法律的條文,也有罰則嘛,對不對?是,有罰則。好,那我再請教一下,我的這個法案裡面有兩項是行政院版沒有的啦。有一個就是說這個,如果你是犯打造專法、經判決有罪確定者、不得登記為公職人員的候選人,\n220194\t243748\t那我不曉得說這個打詐專法通過之後就這部分來講咧就是因為他如果是屬於這個組織犯罪那我們在刑法裡面有規定啊如果是組織犯罪的話有排黑條款那如果是這一個在打詐專法通過之後那是屬於這一個組織犯罪的那他有沒有排黑條款不得參選不得這個為候選人有沒有這一條\n247967\t253436\t審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具《詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案》案。\n258472\t269518\t我是建議可以放進去,因為它是違反了刑法裡面有一條是有關詐欺組織犯罪的,這個應該是有339條之四,有下面四款,其中有一款是有犯三人以上的詐欺的話,\n285694\t301842\t有還有在排二條款裡面啦是那在公職選罷法裡面所規定的部分包括國安無法或者是組織犯罪齁或者是其他的貪污自罪條例裡面所以如果可以引用公職選罷法的話我們並不反對但是在目前的這個打詐專法裡面我們並沒有把它單獨盧列進去\n304104\t327290\t那我是建議啦,因為這個我們在這個選罷法的這個排在條款裡面也有這一個把這個詐欺把它列進去啦那是不是要在這一個打造專法裡面再列進去這個我們主條討論的時候我們再來討論啦那第二個就是說有關這個詐欺量刑準則的制定啦因為大家都覺得說,哇這個12次每次都判得很輕啦\n328070\t349931\t判得很輕就是說我們這個沒有這個一定的量刑的準則所以說是不是能夠把這個詐欺量刑準則把它制定入法然後呢讓這一個法官在這個判刑的時候呢有一定的標準我們只有具體求刑具體求刑那具體求刑是多少\n352204\t358853\t對、那我的意思啦就是說現在為什麼大家覺得說啊有些這個詐騙抓到的時候就判很輕欸這也是民怨啊\n360206\t384057\t報告委員我想輕重我們要尊重法官的判決當然是尊重法官判決所以我才說是不是有一個量刑的一個標準啊量刑標準在司法院他們自己本身會制定一定的量刑的標準那我們檢察官的立場大概就我們會對這個案件的嚴重程度我們會在起訴的時候我們就會具體求刑\n386618\t404055\t我的意思是說司法院還有一個刑事案件妥適量刑罰草案這個目前還沒有我的意思是說因為大家對於這個詐騙抓到輕判有很多真的是輕判有一個數字就是說好像是判不到半年的大概占五成以上\n405083\t425164\t都是輕判,所以我才會建議說是不是在我們的這個待會在具體條文的時候討論的時候能夠把這一個行事案件這一個量刑的這一個標準也把它納進去啦。當然那法官在判刑的時候他有一個至少有一個標準給他準則,就是不是全部都是法官的自由行政。\n425724\t425924\t審查委員陳亭妃\n446616\t461526\t那是不是能夠有一個量刑的一個準則啦?包委員,我們之前有一個那個《妥適量刑法》的草案,那在上個會期因為沒有審查,所以就特別那個司法院這邊繼續研議,\n463047\t485545\t那我才想說因為量刑這個部分涉及到比較多的層面啦它不適合只是用一個條文就來顯示它比較適合用一個通盤性的研議的方式那而且它整個研議的機關也必須要獨立化所以是不是有一個條文就能夠把它定一個量刑準則我覺得這邊恐怕會有一些疑慮啦好 那所以你們這個還沒有再 這個會期也沒有再送過來我們這個會期有繼續要再研議\n486966\t514769\t好啊,那我的問題在於說齁,其實部長我們都來自民意代表齁,就是說有時候齁,這個都侵犯啦齁,那侵犯如何顯現在這個條文裡面,不要讓民眾有認為說啊每次抓到那個都是侵犯的這個精神能夠在討論的時候能夠放進去這樣子啦。是,李委員用心良苦,我們來努力。我們都知道說大家都有很大的民怨,要怎麼樣解決民怨也是我們應該做的。好,謝謝,謝謝部長,謝謝,謝謝主席。\n518554\t520210\t好,謝謝我們李昆城委員的支持。\n","txt":"打詐專法 打詐專法 打詐專法 打詐專法\n很幸運在2月23號這個副委這個教父這個司法法制委員會審查然後在3月12號的我的第一次的施政總諮詢我也問當時這個我們的行政院長陳建仁那時候我問他說這個打詐專法何時能夠送到這個立法院來做審查\n他那時候提到說希望在他卸任之前520之前能夠送到這個立法院那果然很有效率在5月9號的時候這個行政院就通過這個草案打詐釋法然後呢這個在5月17號的時候也交付委員會審查那我也謝謝主席今天特別安排這個打詐專法我們大家都希望在7月16號之前立法院休會之前這個打詐專法釋法\n二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、\n這個詐騙的一頁式的詐騙廣告一樣如影隨形就出來了那我想請問一下次長如果我們這個打造算法通過之後因為你說要採實名制嘛對不對在你們這個草案裡面30條就是說你們要採這個實名制\n然後在這個三十一條裡面廣告也要介入必要的訊息嘛那甚至三十條第二款也提到說這個平台業者要主動實施預防偵測辨識應對詐欺的防制計畫等等所以我請教一下如果這個打詐專法通過之後像類似這一種一夜市的詐騙廣告名人的詐騙廣告還會再出現嗎\n打造專法通過以後,假冒黃仁勳身份這種廣告就不會出現了,因為他有這個義務必須去確認這是黃仁勳本人授權刊登的廣告。所以就採實名制之後,就不會再出現了。說到這個就提到說,現在採實名制的平台業者有哪些?\n審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、\n跟委員補充,Google也有採實名制,但是因為政治的就是之前要求的深,所以這個投資的部分我們在這邊請他要做KYC,而且要實名制。好,那現在臉書,現在就是說不管是LINE、臉書還有Google,在打詐、專法通過之後都會要求他們要採實名制嘛,對不對?然後就是說像這一種不論是黃榮勛、謝金河之類的,這種一夜市詐騙廣告就不會再出現了嗎?\n是,這種假冒身份的業業式廣告應該就不會再出現了。應該?對,因為如果出現的話,他們就有法律的責任,這些廣告平台就有法律責任。好,因為我看你們相關的這個條文是有相關的法律的條文,也有罰則嘛,對不對?是,有罰則。好,那我再請教一下,我的這個法案裡面有兩項是行政院版沒有的啦。有一個就是說這個,如果你是犯打造專法、經判決有罪確定者、不得登記為公職人員的候選人,\n那我不曉得說這個打詐專法通過之後就這部分來講咧就是因為他如果是屬於這個組織犯罪那我們在刑法裡面有規定啊如果是組織犯罪的話有排黑條款那如果是這一個在打詐專法通過之後那是屬於這一個組織犯罪的那他有沒有排黑條款不得參選不得這個為候選人有沒有這一條\n審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具《詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案》案。\n我是建議可以放進去,因為它是違反了刑法裡面有一條是有關詐欺組織犯罪的,這個應該是有339條之四,有下面四款,其中有一款是有犯三人以上的詐欺的話,\n有還有在排二條款裡面啦是那在公職選罷法裡面所規定的部分包括國安無法或者是組織犯罪齁或者是其他的貪污自罪條例裡面所以如果可以引用公職選罷法的話我們並不反對但是在目前的這個打詐專法裡面我們並沒有把它單獨盧列進去\n那我是建議啦,因為這個我們在這個選罷法的這個排在條款裡面也有這一個把這個詐欺把它列進去啦那是不是要在這一個打造專法裡面再列進去這個我們主條討論的時候我們再來討論啦那第二個就是說有關這個詐欺量刑準則的制定啦因為大家都覺得說,哇這個12次每次都判得很輕啦\n判得很輕就是說我們這個沒有這個一定的量刑的準則所以說是不是能夠把這個詐欺量刑準則把它制定入法然後呢讓這一個法官在這個判刑的時候呢有一定的標準我們只有具體求刑具體求刑那具體求刑是多少\n對、那我的意思啦就是說現在為什麼大家覺得說啊有些這個詐騙抓到的時候就判很輕欸這也是民怨啊\n報告委員我想輕重我們要尊重法官的判決當然是尊重法官判決所以我才說是不是有一個量刑的一個標準啊量刑標準在司法院他們自己本身會制定一定的量刑的標準那我們檢察官的立場大概就我們會對這個案件的嚴重程度我們會在起訴的時候我們就會具體求刑\n我的意思是說司法院還有一個刑事案件妥適量刑罰草案這個目前還沒有我的意思是說因為大家對於這個詐騙抓到輕判有很多真的是輕判有一個數字就是說好像是判不到半年的大概占五成以上\n都是輕判,所以我才會建議說是不是在我們的這個待會在具體條文的時候討論的時候能夠把這一個行事案件這一個量刑的這一個標準也把它納進去啦。當然那法官在判刑的時候他有一個至少有一個標準給他準則,就是不是全部都是法官的自由行政。\n審查委員陳亭妃\n那是不是能夠有一個量刑的一個準則啦?包委員,我們之前有一個那個《妥適量刑法》的草案,那在上個會期因為沒有審查,所以就特別那個司法院這邊繼續研議,\n那我才想說因為量刑這個部分涉及到比較多的層面啦它不適合只是用一個條文就來顯示它比較適合用一個通盤性的研議的方式那而且它整個研議的機關也必須要獨立化所以是不是有一個條文就能夠把它定一個量刑準則我覺得這邊恐怕會有一些疑慮啦好 那所以你們這個還沒有再 這個會期也沒有再送過來我們這個會期有繼續要再研議\n好啊,那我的問題在於說齁,其實部長我們都來自民意代表齁,就是說有時候齁,這個都侵犯啦齁,那侵犯如何顯現在這個條文裡面,不要讓民眾有認為說啊每次抓到那個都是侵犯的這個精神能夠在討論的時候能夠放進去這樣子啦。是,李委員用心良苦,我們來努力。我們都知道說大家都有很大的民怨,要怎麼樣解決民怨也是我們應該做的。好,謝謝,謝謝部長,謝謝,謝謝主席。\n好,謝謝我們李昆城委員的支持。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.172 --> 00:05.036\n打詐專法打詐專法打詐專法打詐專法\n\n00:15.089 --> 00:31.449\n很幸運在2月23號這個副委這個教父這個司法法制委員會審查然後在3月12號的我的第一次的施政總諮詢我也問當時這個我們的行政院長陳建仁那時候我問他說這個打詐專法何時能夠送到這個立法院來做審查\n\n00:32.290 --> 00:57.212\n他那時候提到說希望在他卸任之前520之前能夠送到這個立法院那果然很有效率在5月9號的時候這個行政院就通過這個草案打詐釋法然後呢這個在5月17號的時候也交付委員會審查那我也謝謝主席今天特別安排這個打詐專法我們大家都希望在7月16號之前立法院休會之前這個打詐專法釋法\n\n00:58.453 --> 01:07.657\n二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、\n\n01:26.925 --> 01:40.063\n這個詐騙的一頁式的詐騙廣告一樣如影隨形就出來了那我想請問一下次長如果我們這個打造算法通過之後因為你說要採實名制嘛對不對在你們這個草案裡面30條就是說你們要採這個實名制\n\n01:41.204 --> 02:00.444\n然後在這個三十一條裡面廣告也要介入必要的訊息嘛那甚至三十條第二款也提到說這個平台業者要主動實施預防偵測辨識應對詐欺的防制計畫等等所以我請教一下如果這個打詐專法通過之後像類似這一種一夜市的詐騙廣告名人的詐騙廣告還會再出現嗎\n\n02:03.647 --> 02:18.462\n打造專法通過以後,假冒黃仁勳身份這種廣告就不會出現了,因為他有這個義務必須去確認這是黃仁勳本人授權刊登的廣告。所以就採實名制之後,就不會再出現了。說到這個就提到說,現在採實名制的平台業者有哪些?\n\n02:23.234 --> 02:29.857\n審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、\n\n02:45.219 --> 03:10.777\n跟委員補充,Google也有採實名制,但是因為政治的就是之前要求的深,所以這個投資的部分我們在這邊請他要做KYC,而且要實名制。好,那現在臉書,現在就是說不管是LINE、臉書還有Google,在打詐、專法通過之後都會要求他們要採實名制嘛,對不對?然後就是說像這一種不論是黃榮勛、謝金河之類的,這種一夜市詐騙廣告就不會再出現了嗎?\n\n03:11.477 --> 03:39.254\n是,這種假冒身份的業業式廣告應該就不會再出現了。應該?對,因為如果出現的話,他們就有法律的責任,這些廣告平台就有法律責任。好,因為我看你們相關的這個條文是有相關的法律的條文,也有罰則嘛,對不對?是,有罰則。好,那我再請教一下,我的這個法案裡面有兩項是行政院版沒有的啦。有一個就是說這個,如果你是犯打造專法、經判決有罪確定者、不得登記為公職人員的候選人,\n\n03:40.194 --> 04:03.748\n那我不曉得說這個打詐專法通過之後就這部分來講咧就是因為他如果是屬於這個組織犯罪那我們在刑法裡面有規定啊如果是組織犯罪的話有排黑條款那如果是這一個在打詐專法通過之後那是屬於這一個組織犯罪的那他有沒有排黑條款不得參選不得這個為候選人有沒有這一條\n\n04:07.967 --> 04:13.436\n審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具《詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案》案。\n\n04:18.472 --> 04:29.518\n我是建議可以放進去,因為它是違反了刑法裡面有一條是有關詐欺組織犯罪的,這個應該是有339條之四,有下面四款,其中有一款是有犯三人以上的詐欺的話,\n\n04:45.694 --> 05:01.842\n有還有在排二條款裡面啦是那在公職選罷法裡面所規定的部分包括國安無法或者是組織犯罪齁或者是其他的貪污自罪條例裡面所以如果可以引用公職選罷法的話我們並不反對但是在目前的這個打詐專法裡面我們並沒有把它單獨盧列進去\n\n05:04.104 --> 05:27.290\n那我是建議啦,因為這個我們在這個選罷法的這個排在條款裡面也有這一個把這個詐欺把它列進去啦那是不是要在這一個打造專法裡面再列進去這個我們主條討論的時候我們再來討論啦那第二個就是說有關這個詐欺量刑準則的制定啦因為大家都覺得說,哇這個12次每次都判得很輕啦\n\n05:28.070 --> 05:49.931\n判得很輕就是說我們這個沒有這個一定的量刑的準則所以說是不是能夠把這個詐欺量刑準則把它制定入法然後呢讓這一個法官在這個判刑的時候呢有一定的標準我們只有具體求刑具體求刑那具體求刑是多少\n\n05:52.204 --> 05:58.853\n對、那我的意思啦就是說現在為什麼大家覺得說啊有些這個詐騙抓到的時候就判很輕欸這也是民怨啊\n\n06:00.206 --> 06:24.057\n報告委員我想輕重我們要尊重法官的判決當然是尊重法官判決所以我才說是不是有一個量刑的一個標準啊量刑標準在司法院他們自己本身會制定一定的量刑的標準那我們檢察官的立場大概就我們會對這個案件的嚴重程度我們會在起訴的時候我們就會具體求刑\n\n06:26.618 --> 06:44.055\n我的意思是說司法院還有一個刑事案件妥適量刑罰草案這個目前還沒有我的意思是說因為大家對於這個詐騙抓到輕判有很多真的是輕判有一個數字就是說好像是判不到半年的大概占五成以上\n\n06:45.083 --> 07:05.164\n都是輕判,所以我才會建議說是不是在我們的這個待會在具體條文的時候討論的時候能夠把這一個行事案件這一個量刑的這一個標準也把它納進去啦。當然那法官在判刑的時候他有一個至少有一個標準給他準則,就是不是全部都是法官的自由行政。\n\n07:05.724 --> 07:05.924\n審查委員陳亭妃\n\n07:26.616 --> 07:41.526\n那是不是能夠有一個量刑的一個準則啦?包委員,我們之前有一個那個《妥適量刑法》的草案,那在上個會期因為沒有審查,所以就特別那個司法院這邊繼續研議,\n\n07:43.047 --> 08:05.545\n那我才想說因為量刑這個部分涉及到比較多的層面啦它不適合只是用一個條文就來顯示它比較適合用一個通盤性的研議的方式那而且它整個研議的機關也必須要獨立化所以是不是有一個條文就能夠把它定一個量刑準則我覺得這邊恐怕會有一些疑慮啦好那所以你們這個還沒有再這個會期也沒有再送過來我們這個會期有繼續要再研議\n\n08:06.966 --> 08:34.769\n好啊,那我的問題在於說齁,其實部長我們都來自民意代表齁,就是說有時候齁,這個都侵犯啦齁,那侵犯如何顯現在這個條文裡面,不要讓民眾有認為說啊每次抓到那個都是侵犯的這個精神能夠在討論的時候能夠放進去這樣子啦。是,李委員用心良苦,我們來努力。我們都知道說大家都有很大的民怨,要怎麼樣解決民怨也是我們應該做的。好,謝謝,謝謝部長,謝謝,謝謝主席。\n\n08:38.554 --> 08:40.210\n好,謝謝我們李昆城委員的支持。\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.172,"end":5.036,"text":"打詐專法 打詐專法 打詐專法 打詐專法"},{"start":15.089,"end":31.449,"text":"很幸運在2月23號這個副委這個教父這個司法法制委員會審查然後在3月12號的我的第一次的施政總諮詢我也問當時這個我們的行政院長陳建仁那時候我問他說這個打詐專法何時能夠送到這個立法院來做審查"},{"start":32.29,"end":57.212,"text":"他那時候提到說希望在他卸任之前520之前能夠送到這個立法院那果然很有效率在5月9號的時候這個行政院就通過這個草案打詐釋法然後呢這個在5月17號的時候也交付委員會審查那我也謝謝主席今天特別安排這個打詐專法我們大家都希望在7月16號之前立法院休會之前這個打詐專法釋法"},{"start":58.453,"end":67.657,"text":"二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、"},{"start":86.925,"end":100.063,"text":"這個詐騙的一頁式的詐騙廣告一樣如影隨形就出來了那我想請問一下次長如果我們這個打造算法通過之後因為你說要採實名制嘛對不對在你們這個草案裡面30條就是說你們要採這個實名制"},{"start":101.204,"end":120.444,"text":"然後在這個三十一條裡面廣告也要介入必要的訊息嘛那甚至三十條第二款也提到說這個平台業者要主動實施預防偵測辨識應對詐欺的防制計畫等等所以我請教一下如果這個打詐專法通過之後像類似這一種一夜市的詐騙廣告名人的詐騙廣告還會再出現嗎"},{"start":123.647,"end":138.462,"text":"打造專法通過以後,假冒黃仁勳身份這種廣告就不會出現了,因為他有這個義務必須去確認這是黃仁勳本人授權刊登的廣告。所以就採實名制之後,就不會再出現了。說到這個就提到說,現在採實名制的平台業者有哪些?"},{"start":143.234,"end":149.857,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、"},{"start":165.219,"end":190.777,"text":"跟委員補充,Google也有採實名制,但是因為政治的就是之前要求的深,所以這個投資的部分我們在這邊請他要做KYC,而且要實名制。好,那現在臉書,現在就是說不管是LINE、臉書還有Google,在打詐、專法通過之後都會要求他們要採實名制嘛,對不對?然後就是說像這一種不論是黃榮勛、謝金河之類的,這種一夜市詐騙廣告就不會再出現了嗎?"},{"start":191.477,"end":219.254,"text":"是,這種假冒身份的業業式廣告應該就不會再出現了。應該?對,因為如果出現的話,他們就有法律的責任,這些廣告平台就有法律責任。好,因為我看你們相關的這個條文是有相關的法律的條文,也有罰則嘛,對不對?是,有罰則。好,那我再請教一下,我的這個法案裡面有兩項是行政院版沒有的啦。有一個就是說這個,如果你是犯打造專法、經判決有罪確定者、不得登記為公職人員的候選人,"},{"start":220.194,"end":243.748,"text":"那我不曉得說這個打詐專法通過之後就這部分來講咧就是因為他如果是屬於這個組織犯罪那我們在刑法裡面有規定啊如果是組織犯罪的話有排黑條款那如果是這一個在打詐專法通過之後那是屬於這一個組織犯罪的那他有沒有排黑條款不得參選不得這個為候選人有沒有這一條"},{"start":247.967,"end":253.436,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具《詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案》案。"},{"start":258.472,"end":269.518,"text":"我是建議可以放進去,因為它是違反了刑法裡面有一條是有關詐欺組織犯罪的,這個應該是有339條之四,有下面四款,其中有一款是有犯三人以上的詐欺的話,"},{"start":285.694,"end":301.842,"text":"有還有在排二條款裡面啦是那在公職選罷法裡面所規定的部分包括國安無法或者是組織犯罪齁或者是其他的貪污自罪條例裡面所以如果可以引用公職選罷法的話我們並不反對但是在目前的這個打詐專法裡面我們並沒有把它單獨盧列進去"},{"start":304.104,"end":327.29,"text":"那我是建議啦,因為這個我們在這個選罷法的這個排在條款裡面也有這一個把這個詐欺把它列進去啦那是不是要在這一個打造專法裡面再列進去這個我們主條討論的時候我們再來討論啦那第二個就是說有關這個詐欺量刑準則的制定啦因為大家都覺得說,哇這個12次每次都判得很輕啦"},{"start":328.07,"end":349.931,"text":"判得很輕就是說我們這個沒有這個一定的量刑的準則所以說是不是能夠把這個詐欺量刑準則把它制定入法然後呢讓這一個法官在這個判刑的時候呢有一定的標準我們只有具體求刑具體求刑那具體求刑是多少"},{"start":352.204,"end":358.853,"text":"對、那我的意思啦就是說現在為什麼大家覺得說啊有些這個詐騙抓到的時候就判很輕欸這也是民怨啊"},{"start":360.206,"end":384.057,"text":"報告委員我想輕重我們要尊重法官的判決當然是尊重法官判決所以我才說是不是有一個量刑的一個標準啊量刑標準在司法院他們自己本身會制定一定的量刑的標準那我們檢察官的立場大概就我們會對這個案件的嚴重程度我們會在起訴的時候我們就會具體求刑"},{"start":386.618,"end":404.055,"text":"我的意思是說司法院還有一個刑事案件妥適量刑罰草案這個目前還沒有我的意思是說因為大家對於這個詐騙抓到輕判有很多真的是輕判有一個數字就是說好像是判不到半年的大概占五成以上"},{"start":405.083,"end":425.164,"text":"都是輕判,所以我才會建議說是不是在我們的這個待會在具體條文的時候討論的時候能夠把這一個行事案件這一個量刑的這一個標準也把它納進去啦。當然那法官在判刑的時候他有一個至少有一個標準給他準則,就是不是全部都是法官的自由行政。"},{"start":425.724,"end":425.924,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃"},{"start":446.616,"end":461.526,"text":"那是不是能夠有一個量刑的一個準則啦?包委員,我們之前有一個那個《妥適量刑法》的草案,那在上個會期因為沒有審查,所以就特別那個司法院這邊繼續研議,"},{"start":463.047,"end":485.545,"text":"那我才想說因為量刑這個部分涉及到比較多的層面啦它不適合只是用一個條文就來顯示它比較適合用一個通盤性的研議的方式那而且它整個研議的機關也必須要獨立化所以是不是有一個條文就能夠把它定一個量刑準則我覺得這邊恐怕會有一些疑慮啦好 那所以你們這個還沒有再 這個會期也沒有再送過來我們這個會期有繼續要再研議"},{"start":486.966,"end":514.769,"text":"好啊,那我的問題在於說齁,其實部長我們都來自民意代表齁,就是說有時候齁,這個都侵犯啦齁,那侵犯如何顯現在這個條文裡面,不要讓民眾有認為說啊每次抓到那個都是侵犯的這個精神能夠在討論的時候能夠放進去這樣子啦。是,李委員用心良苦,我們來努力。我們都知道說大家都有很大的民怨,要怎麼樣解決民怨也是我們應該做的。好,謝謝,謝謝部長,謝謝,謝謝主席。"},{"start":518.554,"end":520.21,"text":"好,謝謝我們李昆城委員的支持。"}]}}}}