{"id":153644,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153644","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/18e54f584c581c9874eb3ed448b353f0155b271690f57e8efc6f3e651eb00659d58348d2a66612b95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"12:38:04 - 12:47:44","影片長度":"00:09:40","會議時間":"2024-06-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：一、「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」：(一)審查行政院函請審議「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」案。(二)審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」案。(三)審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案」案。【第(二)案、第(三)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】二、「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例」：(一)審查委員張嘉郡等21人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。(二)審查委員吳琪銘等19人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。(四)審查委員林岱樺等18人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「宗教團體以自然人名義登記不動產處理暫行條例第五條條文修正草案」案。【第(二)案至第(五)案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】三、「海洋保育法草案」：(一)繼續審查行政院函請審議「海洋保育法草案」案。(二)繼續審查委員楊瓊瓔等20人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(三)繼續審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(四)繼續審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(五)繼續審查委員黃捷等18人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(六)繼續審查委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(七)繼續審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(八)繼續審查委員蘇巧慧等16人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(九)繼續審查委員羅美玲等17人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十)繼續審查委員許宇甄等20人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十一)繼續審查委員莊瑞雄等20人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十二)繼續審查委員洪申翰等16人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十三)繼續審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十四)繼續審查委員賴瑞隆等18人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十五)繼續審查委員高金素梅等22人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十六)繼續審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十七)繼續審查委員蔡易餘等19人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。(十八)繼續審查委員吳琪銘等18人擬具「海洋保育法草案」案。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-05","start_time":"2024-06-05T12:38:04+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-05T12:47:44+08:00","duration":580,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第22次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":22,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-22"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":1248,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（12時37分）謝謝主席，麻煩有請內政部部長、法務部政次以及司法院刑事廳的代表，副廳長或者是法官要上來都可以。"],["主席：請內政部部長、法務部政次及司法院的代表。"],["劉部長世芳：黃委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：三位好，因為時間的關係不一一問候，我直接切入正題。詐騙對臺灣人民所造成的傷害，我相信不用再贅述了，從事前的預防到事後的追懲都很重要。今天我們提出打詐專法，我非常重視一個面向，不管是台灣民眾黨在一開始的時候舉辦的公聽會，以及我接下來到刑事警察局、調查局去拜訪，希望他們能夠說明在打詐作業當中他們所面臨的困境，其中一個大家共同的心聲是臺灣對詐欺犯的處罰真的太輕了，導致在臺版柬埔寨案當中，那個主嫌藍道三十二個加重詐欺罪，卻是一天的牢都沒有坐！三十二個加重詐欺罪，一天的牢都沒有坐，這件事情到底怎麼發生的？我們的司法體系是怎麼樣把一個小弟養成首腦？從小弟變成首腦，三十二個加重詐欺罪，結果竟然一天的牢都沒有坐！今天我看到你們針對高額財產的損害加重刑責，在立法體例上我支持。第二個部分，詐欺獲取的財物達一千萬以上的加重處罰嘛，到一億以上的時候應不應該也要加重處罰？請教部長，到一千萬以上加重處罰，到一億以上要不要加更重？部長贊不贊成？"],["劉部長世芳：我覺得這是一個很好的方向，但是可能要請主責部會來回應比較好。"],["黃委員國昌：好，謝謝。第四十四條規定犯刑法第三百三十九條之四第一項第二款之罪，就是三人結夥去犯法，如果有其他各款的話，加重其刑，最高度及最低度同加之，這是你們基本上面的設計，我們等一下來看這個條文。當我們看完第四十三條跟第四十四條以後，我下面有個問題，部長你先回去休息沒關係，因為接下來可能是法律專業的事情，不好意思讓你站在上面。","請教法務部政次，甲乙丙三個人共同透過網際網路散布「假投資、真詐騙」的訊息，這可以說是現在詐騙實務上面的常態。其中導致一個人A陷於錯誤，交付新臺幣一千五百萬，也就是超過一千萬了嘛，依照你們目前打詐專法的設計，你要用第幾條追訴處罰？"],["徐次長錫祥：報告委員，就是第四十四條第一項第一款，它是複合性的。"],["黃委員國昌：第四十三條有沒有用？"],["徐次長錫祥：第四十三條的話，應該是……"],["黃委員國昌：現在我直接講問題，關於你們所規範的第四十三條、第四十四條，我現在請教你的是第四十三條跟第四十四條的競合。"],["徐次長錫祥：報告委員，這是法條競合。"],["黃委員國昌：對嘛，所以你要用哪一條？"],["徐次長錫祥：會用第四十三條。"],["黃委員國昌：你就回去用第四十三條了嘛，那不對啊！根據第四十三條，你要給他加重處罰，提高法定刑則，罪責是被駭的金額嘛，對不對？"],["徐次長錫祥：是。"],["黃委員國昌：第四十四條針對的是犯罪的手法，如果有第三百三十九條之四那四款，有三人以上犯的再plus其中三款的事由，那你就要加重其刑對吧？"],["徐次長錫祥：是。"],["黃委員國昌：第四十三條跟第四十四條加重其刑的法律理由不一樣嘛！"],["徐次長錫祥：是。"],["黃委員國昌：現在出現的狀況是當你被駭的金額超過一千萬，他使用的犯罪手法又是第三百三十九條之四那四款的複合型態，被駭的金額超過一千萬，犯罪的手法用了兩種以上，這種競合的型態你怎麼會只單純回到第四十三條？那第四十四條要考慮的因素不是不見了嗎？次長，我有沒有說錯？"],["徐次長錫祥：關於立法過程，我是不是請司長補充一下？"],["黃委員國昌：我不需要知道立法過程，我只需要知道你們現在所端出來的法案到了檯面上以後，假設今天立法院三讀通過了這個條文，第四十三條跟第四十四條的競合你們要怎麼處理，這是我的問題。"],["徐次長錫祥：按照委員剛才所說的例子，他一加重的話會到十年六個月啦！"],["黃委員國昌：所以呢？"],["徐次長錫祥：所以我們就會回到……"],["黃委員國昌：第四十三條？"],["徐次長錫祥：對。"],["黃委員國昌：然後第四十四條就不用評價了？"],["徐次長錫祥：回來就是第四十四條……"],["黃委員國昌：不好意思，你跳來跳去的，到底是第四十三條還是第四十四條？還是第四十三條加第四十四條？"],["徐次長錫祥：法條競合，那我們從重就是用第四十四條。"],["黃委員國昌：第四十四條？"],["徐次長錫祥：是，第四十四條。"],["黃委員國昌：你們再回去想一想啦！我知道你們在推這個專法的時候時間壓力很大，因為我去刑事警察局、去調查局的時候，我得到的消息是都還在研擬當中，我知道你們時間的壓力很趕，我也沒有怪你們，但問題是什麼？當出現這種法條競合狀態的時候，一個是被駭的金額，一個是犯罪的手法，兩個考慮完全不一樣嘛！"],["徐次長錫祥：是，不一樣。"],["黃委員國昌：當被駭的金額增加，犯罪手法又是複合性的型態，這個時候我們在整個刑法的理論上就應該要更加重其刑嘛！我這樣的說法次長贊不贊成？"],["徐次長錫祥：贊成。"],["黃委員國昌：贊成嘛！好，今天我有草擬一個修正動議，台灣民眾黨內政委員會的委員與中國國民黨的委員，大家都有支持，等一下審法案的時候，針對第四十三條跟第四十四條競合的型態，再請法務部及司法院的法官們表示好的見解。","第二個，這是我之前質詢的時候一直在問的事情，麻煩主席再給我一分鐘可以嗎？"],["主席：好。"],["黃委員國昌：謝謝。我一直在說的是以前立法者說加重其刑二分之一，針對加重其刑二分之一，本來刑法總則就說最高、最低度都要同加嘛！"],["徐次長錫祥：是。"],["黃委員國昌：結果搞了半天以後，只有最高的再加，最低的只要多一點就可以了，只多一個月，都在法官的射程範圍當中，這個我之前在司法及法制委員會已經質詢過非常多次。你們現在為了處理這個問題，所以在第四十四條第二項特別把它列出來，也就是「前項加重其刑，其最高度及最低度同加之」，我知道你們的立法意圖是希望說最低的最少也要加二分之一，不要像以前一樣只加一個月，大家沒辦法接受嘛！我現在的問題是，當刑法第六十七條相同的文字已經出現過了，但我們法官在解釋上還是認為加一個月就夠，你們為什麼會認為相同的文字在專法當中再重新寫一次，法官適用法律的結果會有所不同？請司法院說明一下。"],["陳副廳長信旗：報告委員，這個應該是不一樣的，「加重其刑二分之一」與「加重其刑至二分之一」是不一樣的，如果是加重其刑二分之一，就是一定要加到二分之一……"],["黃委員國昌：最高、最低都是一樣嘛！"],["陳副廳長信旗：對，都是要加到二分之一。"],["黃委員國昌：這個非常重要。因為未來我們在其他的特別法規當中，包括兒少性剝削條例，包括其他的法規有加重其刑到二分之一，我們立法者全部把它改成加重其刑二分之一，按照今天司法院的說法，是不是最低的刑度也一定會加二分之一？我需要一個肯定的答案，因為實際上面法院判決的結果是不是這個樣子，大家都充滿了疑惑，所以請司法院……主席站起來了，最後回答一個問題，所以你今天的說法是，只是因為文字上面呈現的不同，如果今天立法者包括了在兒少權益保護法，包括在性剝削條例等等，我們寫的不是加重其刑至二分之一，是加重其刑二分之一的話，最低的刑度就一定會加二分之一以上，是不是這樣？"],["陳副廳長信旗：報告委員，是的。"],["黃委員國昌：好，我們等一下，接下來在審議法條的時候，我們再用具體的判決來檢驗司法院的法官今天在上面講的是不是對的，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃國昌委員的質詢。","下一位林思銘委員、林思銘委員，林思銘委員不在。","蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員，蘇清泉委員不在。","各位同仁，我們中午就不休息，繼續開會。","登記發言的委員除不在場之外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束。鍾佳濱委員、李柏毅委員、羅智強委員所提書面質詢列入紀錄，刊登公報。書面質詢及未答復部分，請相關單位一週內以書面答復，並副知本會。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":302,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-22","speakers":["吳琪銘","黃珊珊","王美惠","陳亭妃","蘇巧慧","張宏陸","牛煦庭","麥玉珍","黃建賓","許宇甄","黃捷","高金素梅","張智倫","丁學忠","徐欣瑩","李坤城","王鴻薇","鄭天財Sra 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{\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 566.284, \"end\": 566.384, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 566.384, \"end\": 566.424, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 566.424, \"end\": 566.564, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 566.564, \"end\": 566.884, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 566.884, \"end\": 566.985, \"score\": 0.769}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 566.985, \"end\": 567.045, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 567.045, \"end\": 567.065, \"score\": 0.006}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"昌\", \"start\": 568.035, \"end\": 568.195, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 568.195, \"end\": 568.215, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,389 --> 00:00:13,502\n大衛系主席麻煩有請內政部的部長、法務部的政事、還有司法院刑事廳的代表、副廳長或是法官都可以。\n\n2\n00:00:27,456 --> 00:00:44,906\n三位好時間的關係不宜問候我直接切入正題詐騙對台灣人民所造成的傷害我相信不用再贅述了從事前的預防到事後的追陳都很重要今天我們提出打詐專法\n\n3\n00:00:46,516 --> 00:01:08,796\n我非常重視一個面向就是不管是台灣民眾黨我們在一開始的時候辦的公定會以及我接下來到刑事警察局到調查局我們去拜訪希望他們能夠說明在打詐作業當中他們所面臨的困境其中一個大家共同的心聲是台灣對詐欺犯的處罰\n\n4\n00:01:12,782 --> 00:01:36,723\n真的太輕了導致在台版柬埔災案當中那個主嫌攔到32個加重詐欺罪一天的勞都沒有做32個加重詐欺罪一天的勞都沒有做這件事情到底怎麼發生的我們的司法體系是怎麼樣把一個小弟養成首腦從小弟變首腦32個加重詐欺罪\n\n5\n00:01:40,789 --> 00:02:02,251\n結果竟然一天的勞動沒有做所以今天我看到你們針對高額財產的損害加重行車立法的體力上我支持我支持第二個部分詐欺獲取的財物達一千萬以上的加重處罰嘛到一億以上的時候應不應該也要加重處罰來請教部長\n\n6\n00:02:06,653 --> 00:02:32,127\n到一千萬以上加重處罰嘛,到一億以上要不要加更重?部長,在不贊成?我覺得這是一個很好的方向,但是可能要請我們的主持人回來回應比較好。414條,339條之是第一項第二款之罪,就是三人結伙去犯嘛。如果其他各款的話,加重期刑最高最低同加之,這是你們基本上面的設計。我們等一下來看這個條文。\n\n7\n00:02:33,588 --> 00:02:54,469\n當我們看完43條跟44條以後我下面有個問題啊因為那個部長你先回去休息沒關係啦因為接下來可能是法律專業的事情不好意思讓你站在上面來請法務部的政次甲乙丙三個人共同透過網際網絡散佈假投資真詐騙的訊息這個可以說是我們現在詐騙實務上面的常態嘛\n\n8\n00:02:56,751 --> 00:03:17,181\n他其中導致一個人A竊於錯誤交付新台幣1500萬超過1000萬了嘛依照你們目前打詐專法的設計你要用第幾條追溯處罰報告委員就是44條第一項的第一款他是複合性的那43條有沒有用43條的話應該是\n\n9\n00:03:26,005 --> 00:03:54,404\n現在我直接講問題啦你們規範了43條規範了44條我現在在請教你的是43條跟44條的競合報告委員這是法條競合對嘛所以你要用哪一條會用43條你就回去用43條了嘛那不對啊你43條基本上加重你要給他加重處罰提高法定性的罪責是他\n\n10\n00:03:55,563 --> 00:04:06,047\n審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、\n\n11\n00:04:10,169 --> 00:04:25,104\n對吧是那43條跟44條加重期刑的法律理由不一樣嘛是我現在出現的狀況是當你被害的金額超過一千萬他使用的犯罪手法又是339條知識四款的複合形態\n\n12\n00:04:27,025 --> 00:04:42,835\n被害的金額超過一千萬犯罪的手法用了兩種以上那這種競合的形態那你怎麼會只單純回到44、43條那44條要考慮的因素不是不見了嗎部長、不、不好意思次長我有沒有說錯呃\n\n13\n00:04:47,543 --> 00:05:04,509\n第四、加重到二分之一回到十。立法過程我是不是請司長補充一下。沒有,我不需要知道立法過程,我只需要知道你們現在所端出來的法案,到檯面上了以後,我們今天假設立法院三讀通過了這個條文,43條跟44條的競合你們要怎麼處理,這是我的問題。我知道。\n\n14\n00:05:11,550 --> 00:05:28,160\n那個按照委員剛才的例子的話他一加重的話會到10年6個月啦所以呢所以我們就會回到43條對44條就不用評價了44才對啦回來就是44條不好意思啦你跳來跳去的到底是43還是44還是43加44法條進合那我們重重就是44條\n\n15\n00:05:39,878 --> 00:06:01,210\n就是14條?是,44條。你們齁,再回去想一想啦。我知道,你們在推這個專法的時候時間壓力很大嘛。因為我去刑事警察局、去調查局的時候我得到的消息是都還在眼裡當中嘛。我知道你們時間的壓力很趕,我也沒有怪你們。但問題是什麼?\n\n16\n00:06:02,190 --> 00:06:29,478\n你在出現這種法條競合的狀態的時候一個是被害的金額一個是犯罪的手法兩個考慮完全不一樣嘛是當被害的金額增加犯罪的手法又用是複合性的形態的時候這個時候我們在整個刑法的理論上那就應該要更加重其刑嘛我這樣的說法次長在不贊成啊贊成贊成嘛好我們今天吼今天吼我有朝你一個修正動議我們台灣民眾黨黨\n\n17\n00:06:32,578 --> 00:06:55,977\n內政委員會的委員跟最後國民黨委員大家都有支持等下在審法案的時候針對43條跟44條競合的形態的時候再請法務部跟我們司法院的法官們能夠表示好的見解第二個這個是我之前在質詢的時候我一直在問的事情主席再一分鐘可以嗎\n\n18\n00:06:58,635 --> 00:07:17,313\n我之前一直在說啦就是我們以前立法者在說加重情形二分之一加重情形二分之一本來刑法總則就說最高最低度都要同加嘛結果搞了半天以後只有最高再加最低的只要多一點就可以了\n\n19\n00:07:18,069 --> 00:07:40,161\n多一個月多一個月都在法官的射程範圍當中這我之前在社會法治委員會的時候我已經質詢過非常多次好那你們現在為了處理這個問題所以你們在44條第二項的時候特別把它列出來前項加重情形最高最低度同加之嘛我知道你們的立法的意圖是希望說\n\n20\n00:07:41,101 --> 00:08:09,850\n最低的也要最少加二分之一嘛不要像以前一樣只加一個月大家沒辦法接受嘛但我現在的問題是說當刑法67條相同的文字已經出現過了但我們法官在解釋上還是認為加一個月就夠你們為什麼會認為相同的文字在專法當中再重新寫一次法官適用法律的結果會有所不同來請一下司法院\n\n21\n00:08:11,516 --> 00:08:33,231\n保安委員這個應該是不一樣的加重期刑二分之一跟加重期刑至二分之一是不一樣的如果是加重期刑二分之一就是一定要加到二分之一最高最低都是一樣嘛所以未來沒有這個非常重要因為未來我們在其他的特別法規當中包括兒少性剝削的條例\n\n22\n00:08:34,372 --> 00:08:53,441\n包括其他的法規有加重期刑到二分之一我們全部立法者喔全部把它改成加重期刑二分之一按照今天司法院的說法是不是就是最低的刑度也會一定會加二分之一我需要一個肯定的答案我需要一個肯定的答案因為喔因為\n\n23\n00:08:55,151 --> 00:09:09,911\n實際上面法院判決的結果是不是這個樣子大家都充滿了疑惑所以請司法院主席站起來了最後回答一個問題所以你今天說法是只是因為文字上面呈現的不同如果\n\n24\n00:09:10,612 --> 00:09:27,065\n今天立法者包括了在《兒少權益保護法》包括了在《性剝削條例》等等我們寫的不是加重其刑至二分之一喔是加重其刑二分之一的話最低的刑度就一定會加二分之一以上是不是這樣\n\n25\n00:09:28,035 --> 00:09:28,215\n黃國昌委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n389\t13502\t大衛系主席麻煩有請內政部的部長、法務部的政事、還有司法院刑事廳的代表、副廳長或是法官都可以。\n27456\t44906\t三位好時間的關係不宜問候我直接切入正題詐騙對台灣人民所造成的傷害我相信不用再贅述了從事前的預防到事後的追陳都很重要今天我們提出打詐專法\n46516\t68796\t我非常重視一個面向就是不管是台灣民眾黨我們在一開始的時候辦的公定會以及我接下來到刑事警察局到調查局我們去拜訪希望他們能夠說明在打詐作業當中他們所面臨的困境其中一個大家共同的心聲是台灣對詐欺犯的處罰\n72782\t96723\t真的太輕了導致在台版柬埔災案當中那個主嫌攔到32個加重詐欺罪一天的勞都沒有做32個加重詐欺罪一天的勞都沒有做這件事情到底怎麼發生的我們的司法體系是怎麼樣把一個小弟養成首腦從小弟變首腦32個加重詐欺罪\n100789\t122251\t結果竟然一天的勞動沒有做所以今天我看到你們針對高額財產的損害加重行車立法的體力上我支持我支持第二個部分詐欺獲取的財物達一千萬以上的加重處罰嘛到一億以上的時候應不應該也要加重處罰來請教部長\n126653\t152127\t到一千萬以上加重處罰嘛,到一億以上要不要加更重?部長,在不贊成?我覺得這是一個很好的方向,但是可能要請我們的主持人回來回應比較好。414條,339條之是第一項第二款之罪,就是三人結伙去犯嘛。如果其他各款的話,加重期刑最高最低同加之,這是你們基本上面的設計。我們等一下來看這個條文。\n153588\t174469\t當我們看完43條跟44條以後我下面有個問題啊因為那個部長你先回去休息沒關係啦因為接下來可能是法律專業的事情不好意思讓你站在上面來請法務部的政次甲乙丙三個人共同透過網際網絡散佈假投資真詐騙的訊息這個可以說是我們現在詐騙實務上面的常態嘛\n176751\t197181\t他其中導致一個人A竊於錯誤交付新台幣1500萬超過1000萬了嘛依照你們目前打詐專法的設計你要用第幾條追溯處罰報告委員就是44條第一項的第一款他是複合性的那43條有沒有用43條的話應該是\n206005\t234404\t現在我直接講問題啦你們規範了43條規範了44條我現在在請教你的是43條跟44條的競合報告委員這是法條競合對嘛 所以你要用哪一條會用43條你就回去用43條了嘛那不對啊你43條基本上加重你要給他加重處罰提高法定性的罪責是他\n235563\t246047\t審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、\n250169\t265104\t對吧 是那43條跟44條加重期刑的法律理由不一樣嘛 是我現在出現的狀況是當你被害的金額超過一千萬他使用的犯罪手法又是339條知識四款的複合形態\n267025\t282835\t被害的金額超過一千萬犯罪的手法用了兩種以上那這種競合的形態那你怎麼會只單純回到44、43條那44條要考慮的因素不是不見了嗎部長、不、不好意思次長我有沒有說錯呃\n287543\t304509\t第四、加重到二分之一回到十。立法過程我是不是請司長補充一下。沒有,我不需要知道立法過程,我只需要知道你們現在所端出來的法案,到檯面上了以後,我們今天假設立法院三讀通過了這個條文,43條跟44條的競合你們要怎麼處理,這是我的問題。我知道。\n311550\t328160\t那個按照委員剛才的例子的話他一加重的話會到10年6個月啦所以呢所以我們就會回到43條對44條就不用評價了44才對啦回來就是44條不好意思啦你跳來跳去的到底是43還是44還是43加44法條進合那我們重重就是44條\n339878\t361210\t就是14條?是,44條。你們齁,再回去想一想啦。我知道,你們在推這個專法的時候時間壓力很大嘛。因為我去刑事警察局、去調查局的時候我得到的消息是都還在眼裡當中嘛。我知道你們時間的壓力很趕,我也沒有怪你們。但問題是什麼?\n362190\t389478\t你在出現這種法條競合的狀態的時候一個是被害的金額一個是犯罪的手法兩個考慮完全不一樣嘛是當被害的金額增加犯罪的手法又用是複合性的形態的時候這個時候我們在整個刑法的理論上那就應該要更加重其刑嘛我這樣的說法次長在不贊成啊贊成贊成嘛好我們今天吼今天吼我有朝你一個修正動議我們台灣民眾黨黨\n392578\t415977\t內政委員會的委員跟最後國民黨委員大家都有支持等下在審法案的時候針對43條跟44條競合的形態的時候再請法務部跟我們司法院的法官們能夠表示好的見解第二個這個是我之前在質詢的時候我一直在問的事情主席再一分鐘可以嗎\n418635\t437313\t我之前一直在說啦就是我們以前立法者在說加重情形二分之一加重情形二分之一本來刑法總則就說最高最低度都要同加嘛結果搞了半天以後只有最高再加最低的只要多一點就可以了\n438069\t460161\t多一個月多一個月都在法官的射程範圍當中這我之前在社會法治委員會的時候我已經質詢過非常多次好那你們現在為了處理這個問題所以你們在44條第二項的時候特別把它列出來前項加重情形最高最低度同加之嘛我知道你們的立法的意圖是希望說\n461101\t489850\t最低的也要最少加二分之一嘛不要像以前一樣只加一個月大家沒辦法接受嘛但我現在的問題是說當刑法67條相同的文字已經出現過了但我們法官在解釋上還是認為加一個月就夠你們為什麼會認為相同的文字在專法當中再重新寫一次法官適用法律的結果會有所不同來請一下司法院\n491516\t513231\t保安委員這個應該是不一樣的加重期刑二分之一跟加重期刑至二分之一是不一樣的如果是加重期刑二分之一就是一定要加到二分之一最高最低都是一樣嘛所以未來沒有這個非常重要因為未來我們在其他的特別法規當中包括兒少性剝削的條例\n514372\t533441\t包括其他的法規有加重期刑到二分之一我們全部立法者喔全部把它改成加重期刑二分之一按照今天司法院的說法是不是就是最低的刑度也會一定會加二分之一我需要一個肯定的答案我需要一個肯定的答案因為喔因為\n535151\t549911\t實際上面法院判決的結果是不是這個樣子大家都充滿了疑惑所以請司法院主席站起來了最後回答一個問題所以你今天說法是只是因為文字上面呈現的不同如果\n550612\t567065\t今天立法者包括了在《兒少權益保護法》包括了在《性剝削條例》等等我們寫的不是加重其刑至二分之一喔是加重其刑二分之一的話最低的刑度就一定會加二分之一以上是不是這樣\n568035\t568215\t黃國昌委員\n","txt":"大衛系主席麻煩有請內政部的部長、法務部的政事、還有司法院刑事廳的代表、副廳長或是法官都可以。\n三位好時間的關係不宜問候我直接切入正題詐騙對台灣人民所造成的傷害我相信不用再贅述了從事前的預防到事後的追陳都很重要今天我們提出打詐專法\n我非常重視一個面向就是不管是台灣民眾黨我們在一開始的時候辦的公定會以及我接下來到刑事警察局到調查局我們去拜訪希望他們能夠說明在打詐作業當中他們所面臨的困境其中一個大家共同的心聲是台灣對詐欺犯的處罰\n真的太輕了導致在台版柬埔災案當中那個主嫌攔到32個加重詐欺罪一天的勞都沒有做32個加重詐欺罪一天的勞都沒有做這件事情到底怎麼發生的我們的司法體系是怎麼樣把一個小弟養成首腦從小弟變首腦32個加重詐欺罪\n結果竟然一天的勞動沒有做所以今天我看到你們針對高額財產的損害加重行車立法的體力上我支持我支持第二個部分詐欺獲取的財物達一千萬以上的加重處罰嘛到一億以上的時候應不應該也要加重處罰來請教部長\n到一千萬以上加重處罰嘛,到一億以上要不要加更重?部長,在不贊成?我覺得這是一個很好的方向,但是可能要請我們的主持人回來回應比較好。414條,339條之是第一項第二款之罪,就是三人結伙去犯嘛。如果其他各款的話,加重期刑最高最低同加之,這是你們基本上面的設計。我們等一下來看這個條文。\n當我們看完43條跟44條以後我下面有個問題啊因為那個部長你先回去休息沒關係啦因為接下來可能是法律專業的事情不好意思讓你站在上面來請法務部的政次甲乙丙三個人共同透過網際網絡散佈假投資真詐騙的訊息這個可以說是我們現在詐騙實務上面的常態嘛\n他其中導致一個人A竊於錯誤交付新台幣1500萬超過1000萬了嘛依照你們目前打詐專法的設計你要用第幾條追溯處罰報告委員就是44條第一項的第一款他是複合性的那43條有沒有用43條的話應該是\n現在我直接講問題啦你們規範了43條規範了44條我現在在請教你的是43條跟44條的競合報告委員這是法條競合對嘛 所以你要用哪一條會用43條你就回去用43條了嘛那不對啊你43條基本上加重你要給他加重處罰提高法定性的罪責是他\n審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、\n對吧 是那43條跟44條加重期刑的法律理由不一樣嘛 是我現在出現的狀況是當你被害的金額超過一千萬他使用的犯罪手法又是339條知識四款的複合形態\n被害的金額超過一千萬犯罪的手法用了兩種以上那這種競合的形態那你怎麼會只單純回到44、43條那44條要考慮的因素不是不見了嗎部長、不、不好意思次長我有沒有說錯呃\n第四、加重到二分之一回到十。立法過程我是不是請司長補充一下。沒有,我不需要知道立法過程,我只需要知道你們現在所端出來的法案,到檯面上了以後,我們今天假設立法院三讀通過了這個條文,43條跟44條的競合你們要怎麼處理,這是我的問題。我知道。\n那個按照委員剛才的例子的話他一加重的話會到10年6個月啦所以呢所以我們就會回到43條對44條就不用評價了44才對啦回來就是44條不好意思啦你跳來跳去的到底是43還是44還是43加44法條進合那我們重重就是44條\n就是14條?是,44條。你們齁,再回去想一想啦。我知道,你們在推這個專法的時候時間壓力很大嘛。因為我去刑事警察局、去調查局的時候我得到的消息是都還在眼裡當中嘛。我知道你們時間的壓力很趕,我也沒有怪你們。但問題是什麼?\n你在出現這種法條競合的狀態的時候一個是被害的金額一個是犯罪的手法兩個考慮完全不一樣嘛是當被害的金額增加犯罪的手法又用是複合性的形態的時候這個時候我們在整個刑法的理論上那就應該要更加重其刑嘛我這樣的說法次長在不贊成啊贊成贊成嘛好我們今天吼今天吼我有朝你一個修正動議我們台灣民眾黨黨\n內政委員會的委員跟最後國民黨委員大家都有支持等下在審法案的時候針對43條跟44條競合的形態的時候再請法務部跟我們司法院的法官們能夠表示好的見解第二個這個是我之前在質詢的時候我一直在問的事情主席再一分鐘可以嗎\n我之前一直在說啦就是我們以前立法者在說加重情形二分之一加重情形二分之一本來刑法總則就說最高最低度都要同加嘛結果搞了半天以後只有最高再加最低的只要多一點就可以了\n多一個月多一個月都在法官的射程範圍當中這我之前在社會法治委員會的時候我已經質詢過非常多次好那你們現在為了處理這個問題所以你們在44條第二項的時候特別把它列出來前項加重情形最高最低度同加之嘛我知道你們的立法的意圖是希望說\n最低的也要最少加二分之一嘛不要像以前一樣只加一個月大家沒辦法接受嘛但我現在的問題是說當刑法67條相同的文字已經出現過了但我們法官在解釋上還是認為加一個月就夠你們為什麼會認為相同的文字在專法當中再重新寫一次法官適用法律的結果會有所不同來請一下司法院\n保安委員這個應該是不一樣的加重期刑二分之一跟加重期刑至二分之一是不一樣的如果是加重期刑二分之一就是一定要加到二分之一最高最低都是一樣嘛所以未來沒有這個非常重要因為未來我們在其他的特別法規當中包括兒少性剝削的條例\n包括其他的法規有加重期刑到二分之一我們全部立法者喔全部把它改成加重期刑二分之一按照今天司法院的說法是不是就是最低的刑度也會一定會加二分之一我需要一個肯定的答案我需要一個肯定的答案因為喔因為\n實際上面法院判決的結果是不是這個樣子大家都充滿了疑惑所以請司法院主席站起來了最後回答一個問題所以你今天說法是只是因為文字上面呈現的不同如果\n今天立法者包括了在《兒少權益保護法》包括了在《性剝削條例》等等我們寫的不是加重其刑至二分之一喔是加重其刑二分之一的話最低的刑度就一定會加二分之一以上是不是這樣\n黃國昌委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.389 --> 00:13.502\n大衛系主席麻煩有請內政部的部長、法務部的政事、還有司法院刑事廳的代表、副廳長或是法官都可以。\n\n00:27.456 --> 00:44.906\n三位好時間的關係不宜問候我直接切入正題詐騙對台灣人民所造成的傷害我相信不用再贅述了從事前的預防到事後的追陳都很重要今天我們提出打詐專法\n\n00:46.516 --> 01:08.796\n我非常重視一個面向就是不管是台灣民眾黨我們在一開始的時候辦的公定會以及我接下來到刑事警察局到調查局我們去拜訪希望他們能夠說明在打詐作業當中他們所面臨的困境其中一個大家共同的心聲是台灣對詐欺犯的處罰\n\n01:12.782 --> 01:36.723\n真的太輕了導致在台版柬埔災案當中那個主嫌攔到32個加重詐欺罪一天的勞都沒有做32個加重詐欺罪一天的勞都沒有做這件事情到底怎麼發生的我們的司法體系是怎麼樣把一個小弟養成首腦從小弟變首腦32個加重詐欺罪\n\n01:40.789 --> 02:02.251\n結果竟然一天的勞動沒有做所以今天我看到你們針對高額財產的損害加重行車立法的體力上我支持我支持第二個部分詐欺獲取的財物達一千萬以上的加重處罰嘛到一億以上的時候應不應該也要加重處罰來請教部長\n\n02:06.653 --> 02:32.127\n到一千萬以上加重處罰嘛,到一億以上要不要加更重?部長,在不贊成?我覺得這是一個很好的方向,但是可能要請我們的主持人回來回應比較好。414條,339條之是第一項第二款之罪,就是三人結伙去犯嘛。如果其他各款的話,加重期刑最高最低同加之,這是你們基本上面的設計。我們等一下來看這個條文。\n\n02:33.588 --> 02:54.469\n當我們看完43條跟44條以後我下面有個問題啊因為那個部長你先回去休息沒關係啦因為接下來可能是法律專業的事情不好意思讓你站在上面來請法務部的政次甲乙丙三個人共同透過網際網絡散佈假投資真詐騙的訊息這個可以說是我們現在詐騙實務上面的常態嘛\n\n02:56.751 --> 03:17.181\n他其中導致一個人A竊於錯誤交付新台幣1500萬超過1000萬了嘛依照你們目前打詐專法的設計你要用第幾條追溯處罰報告委員就是44條第一項的第一款他是複合性的那43條有沒有用43條的話應該是\n\n03:26.005 --> 03:54.404\n現在我直接講問題啦你們規範了43條規範了44條我現在在請教你的是43條跟44條的競合報告委員這是法條競合對嘛所以你要用哪一條會用43條你就回去用43條了嘛那不對啊你43條基本上加重你要給他加重處罰提高法定性的罪責是他\n\n03:55.563 --> 04:06.047\n審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、\n\n04:10.169 --> 04:25.104\n對吧是那43條跟44條加重期刑的法律理由不一樣嘛是我現在出現的狀況是當你被害的金額超過一千萬他使用的犯罪手法又是339條知識四款的複合形態\n\n04:27.025 --> 04:42.835\n被害的金額超過一千萬犯罪的手法用了兩種以上那這種競合的形態那你怎麼會只單純回到44、43條那44條要考慮的因素不是不見了嗎部長、不、不好意思次長我有沒有說錯呃\n\n04:47.543 --> 05:04.509\n第四、加重到二分之一回到十。立法過程我是不是請司長補充一下。沒有,我不需要知道立法過程,我只需要知道你們現在所端出來的法案,到檯面上了以後,我們今天假設立法院三讀通過了這個條文,43條跟44條的競合你們要怎麼處理,這是我的問題。我知道。\n\n05:11.550 --> 05:28.160\n那個按照委員剛才的例子的話他一加重的話會到10年6個月啦所以呢所以我們就會回到43條對44條就不用評價了44才對啦回來就是44條不好意思啦你跳來跳去的到底是43還是44還是43加44法條進合那我們重重就是44條\n\n05:39.878 --> 06:01.210\n就是14條?是,44條。你們齁,再回去想一想啦。我知道,你們在推這個專法的時候時間壓力很大嘛。因為我去刑事警察局、去調查局的時候我得到的消息是都還在眼裡當中嘛。我知道你們時間的壓力很趕,我也沒有怪你們。但問題是什麼?\n\n06:02.190 --> 06:29.478\n你在出現這種法條競合的狀態的時候一個是被害的金額一個是犯罪的手法兩個考慮完全不一樣嘛是當被害的金額增加犯罪的手法又用是複合性的形態的時候這個時候我們在整個刑法的理論上那就應該要更加重其刑嘛我這樣的說法次長在不贊成啊贊成贊成嘛好我們今天吼今天吼我有朝你一個修正動議我們台灣民眾黨黨\n\n06:32.578 --> 06:55.977\n內政委員會的委員跟最後國民黨委員大家都有支持等下在審法案的時候針對43條跟44條競合的形態的時候再請法務部跟我們司法院的法官們能夠表示好的見解第二個這個是我之前在質詢的時候我一直在問的事情主席再一分鐘可以嗎\n\n06:58.635 --> 07:17.313\n我之前一直在說啦就是我們以前立法者在說加重情形二分之一加重情形二分之一本來刑法總則就說最高最低度都要同加嘛結果搞了半天以後只有最高再加最低的只要多一點就可以了\n\n07:18.069 --> 07:40.161\n多一個月多一個月都在法官的射程範圍當中這我之前在社會法治委員會的時候我已經質詢過非常多次好那你們現在為了處理這個問題所以你們在44條第二項的時候特別把它列出來前項加重情形最高最低度同加之嘛我知道你們的立法的意圖是希望說\n\n07:41.101 --> 08:09.850\n最低的也要最少加二分之一嘛不要像以前一樣只加一個月大家沒辦法接受嘛但我現在的問題是說當刑法67條相同的文字已經出現過了但我們法官在解釋上還是認為加一個月就夠你們為什麼會認為相同的文字在專法當中再重新寫一次法官適用法律的結果會有所不同來請一下司法院\n\n08:11.516 --> 08:33.231\n保安委員這個應該是不一樣的加重期刑二分之一跟加重期刑至二分之一是不一樣的如果是加重期刑二分之一就是一定要加到二分之一最高最低都是一樣嘛所以未來沒有這個非常重要因為未來我們在其他的特別法規當中包括兒少性剝削的條例\n\n08:34.372 --> 08:53.441\n包括其他的法規有加重期刑到二分之一我們全部立法者喔全部把它改成加重期刑二分之一按照今天司法院的說法是不是就是最低的刑度也會一定會加二分之一我需要一個肯定的答案我需要一個肯定的答案因為喔因為\n\n08:55.151 --> 09:09.911\n實際上面法院判決的結果是不是這個樣子大家都充滿了疑惑所以請司法院主席站起來了最後回答一個問題所以你今天說法是只是因為文字上面呈現的不同如果\n\n09:10.612 --> 09:27.065\n今天立法者包括了在《兒少權益保護法》包括了在《性剝削條例》等等我們寫的不是加重其刑至二分之一喔是加重其刑二分之一的話最低的刑度就一定會加二分之一以上是不是這樣\n\n09:28.035 --> 09:28.215\n黃國昌委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.389,"end":13.502,"text":"大衛系主席麻煩有請內政部的部長、法務部的政事、還有司法院刑事廳的代表、副廳長或是法官都可以。"},{"start":27.456,"end":44.906,"text":"三位好時間的關係不宜問候我直接切入正題詐騙對台灣人民所造成的傷害我相信不用再贅述了從事前的預防到事後的追陳都很重要今天我們提出打詐專法"},{"start":46.516,"end":68.796,"text":"我非常重視一個面向就是不管是台灣民眾黨我們在一開始的時候辦的公定會以及我接下來到刑事警察局到調查局我們去拜訪希望他們能夠說明在打詐作業當中他們所面臨的困境其中一個大家共同的心聲是台灣對詐欺犯的處罰"},{"start":72.782,"end":96.723,"text":"真的太輕了導致在台版柬埔災案當中那個主嫌攔到32個加重詐欺罪一天的勞都沒有做32個加重詐欺罪一天的勞都沒有做這件事情到底怎麼發生的我們的司法體系是怎麼樣把一個小弟養成首腦從小弟變首腦32個加重詐欺罪"},{"start":100.789,"end":122.251,"text":"結果竟然一天的勞動沒有做所以今天我看到你們針對高額財產的損害加重行車立法的體力上我支持我支持第二個部分詐欺獲取的財物達一千萬以上的加重處罰嘛到一億以上的時候應不應該也要加重處罰來請教部長"},{"start":126.653,"end":152.127,"text":"到一千萬以上加重處罰嘛,到一億以上要不要加更重?部長,在不贊成?我覺得這是一個很好的方向,但是可能要請我們的主持人回來回應比較好。414條,339條之是第一項第二款之罪,就是三人結伙去犯嘛。如果其他各款的話,加重期刑最高最低同加之,這是你們基本上面的設計。我們等一下來看這個條文。"},{"start":153.588,"end":174.469,"text":"當我們看完43條跟44條以後我下面有個問題啊因為那個部長你先回去休息沒關係啦因為接下來可能是法律專業的事情不好意思讓你站在上面來請法務部的政次甲乙丙三個人共同透過網際網絡散佈假投資真詐騙的訊息這個可以說是我們現在詐騙實務上面的常態嘛"},{"start":176.751,"end":197.181,"text":"他其中導致一個人A竊於錯誤交付新台幣1500萬超過1000萬了嘛依照你們目前打詐專法的設計你要用第幾條追溯處罰報告委員就是44條第一項的第一款他是複合性的那43條有沒有用43條的話應該是"},{"start":206.005,"end":234.404,"text":"現在我直接講問題啦你們規範了43條規範了44條我現在在請教你的是43條跟44條的競合報告委員這是法條競合對嘛 所以你要用哪一條會用43條你就回去用43條了嘛那不對啊你43條基本上加重你要給他加重處罰提高法定性的罪責是他"},{"start":235.563,"end":246.047,"text":"審查委員陳亭妃等16人擬具:「詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、詐欺犯罪危害防制條例草案案件、"},{"start":250.169,"end":265.104,"text":"對吧 是那43條跟44條加重期刑的法律理由不一樣嘛 是我現在出現的狀況是當你被害的金額超過一千萬他使用的犯罪手法又是339條知識四款的複合形態"},{"start":267.025,"end":282.835,"text":"被害的金額超過一千萬犯罪的手法用了兩種以上那這種競合的形態那你怎麼會只單純回到44、43條那44條要考慮的因素不是不見了嗎部長、不、不好意思次長我有沒有說錯呃"},{"start":287.543,"end":304.509,"text":"第四、加重到二分之一回到十。立法過程我是不是請司長補充一下。沒有,我不需要知道立法過程,我只需要知道你們現在所端出來的法案,到檯面上了以後,我們今天假設立法院三讀通過了這個條文,43條跟44條的競合你們要怎麼處理,這是我的問題。我知道。"},{"start":311.55,"end":328.16,"text":"那個按照委員剛才的例子的話他一加重的話會到10年6個月啦所以呢所以我們就會回到43條對44條就不用評價了44才對啦回來就是44條不好意思啦你跳來跳去的到底是43還是44還是43加44法條進合那我們重重就是44條"},{"start":339.878,"end":361.21,"text":"就是14條?是,44條。你們齁,再回去想一想啦。我知道,你們在推這個專法的時候時間壓力很大嘛。因為我去刑事警察局、去調查局的時候我得到的消息是都還在眼裡當中嘛。我知道你們時間的壓力很趕,我也沒有怪你們。但問題是什麼?"},{"start":362.19,"end":389.478,"text":"你在出現這種法條競合的狀態的時候一個是被害的金額一個是犯罪的手法兩個考慮完全不一樣嘛是當被害的金額增加犯罪的手法又用是複合性的形態的時候這個時候我們在整個刑法的理論上那就應該要更加重其刑嘛我這樣的說法次長在不贊成啊贊成贊成嘛好我們今天吼今天吼我有朝你一個修正動議我們台灣民眾黨黨"},{"start":392.578,"end":415.977,"text":"內政委員會的委員跟最後國民黨委員大家都有支持等下在審法案的時候針對43條跟44條競合的形態的時候再請法務部跟我們司法院的法官們能夠表示好的見解第二個這個是我之前在質詢的時候我一直在問的事情主席再一分鐘可以嗎"},{"start":418.635,"end":437.313,"text":"我之前一直在說啦就是我們以前立法者在說加重情形二分之一加重情形二分之一本來刑法總則就說最高最低度都要同加嘛結果搞了半天以後只有最高再加最低的只要多一點就可以了"},{"start":438.069,"end":460.161,"text":"多一個月多一個月都在法官的射程範圍當中這我之前在社會法治委員會的時候我已經質詢過非常多次好那你們現在為了處理這個問題所以你們在44條第二項的時候特別把它列出來前項加重情形最高最低度同加之嘛我知道你們的立法的意圖是希望說"},{"start":461.101,"end":489.85,"text":"最低的也要最少加二分之一嘛不要像以前一樣只加一個月大家沒辦法接受嘛但我現在的問題是說當刑法67條相同的文字已經出現過了但我們法官在解釋上還是認為加一個月就夠你們為什麼會認為相同的文字在專法當中再重新寫一次法官適用法律的結果會有所不同來請一下司法院"},{"start":491.516,"end":513.231,"text":"保安委員這個應該是不一樣的加重期刑二分之一跟加重期刑至二分之一是不一樣的如果是加重期刑二分之一就是一定要加到二分之一最高最低都是一樣嘛所以未來沒有這個非常重要因為未來我們在其他的特別法規當中包括兒少性剝削的條例"},{"start":514.372,"end":533.441,"text":"包括其他的法規有加重期刑到二分之一我們全部立法者喔全部把它改成加重期刑二分之一按照今天司法院的說法是不是就是最低的刑度也會一定會加二分之一我需要一個肯定的答案我需要一個肯定的答案因為喔因為"},{"start":535.151,"end":549.911,"text":"實際上面法院判決的結果是不是這個樣子大家都充滿了疑惑所以請司法院主席站起來了最後回答一個問題所以你今天說法是只是因為文字上面呈現的不同如果"},{"start":550.612,"end":567.065,"text":"今天立法者包括了在《兒少權益保護法》包括了在《性剝削條例》等等我們寫的不是加重其刑至二分之一喔是加重其刑二分之一的話最低的刑度就一定會加二分之一以上是不是這樣"},{"start":568.035,"end":568.215,"text":"黃國昌委員"}]}}}}