{"id":153650,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153650","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/18e54f584c581c986bcfeb2cd79ad565a6cabf0dc0d1a8b7b5dc6a9f8e8436d6d2a2c3f3bcd966965ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴惠員","委員發言時間":"13:02:29 - 13:09:21","影片長度":"00:06:52","會議時間":"2024-06-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-05","start_time":"2024-06-05T13:02:29+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-05T13:09:21+08:00","duration":412,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-15"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":1116,"blocks":[["賴委員惠員：（13時2分）謝謝主席。有請中華民國經濟部長郭智輝。"],["主席：請郭部長。"],["賴委員惠員：部長午安。"],["郭部長智輝：委員午安。"],["賴委員惠員：無庸置疑，你是中華民國的經濟部長郭智輝。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["賴委員惠員：好。","部長，我今天想針對本土化電池產業是穩定電源能量的關鍵跟你質詢、探討。賴總統在淨零轉型的五大策略裡頭，非常清楚地講到數位還有綠色產業的雙軸轉型，也提到建立智慧能源的必要性。在今天──也就是6月登場、為期5天的電腦展，所有全世界的晶片、科技大咖都在我們臺灣聚集，不管是輝達的黃仁勳、超微的Lisa Su還是英特爾的季辛格，他們來到這裡除了搶曝光以外，我想他們參加臺灣電腦展的真正目的是為了鞏固與臺灣供應廠商的關係，應該是這樣子吧？你怎麼看？"],["郭部長智輝：是的。"],["賴委員惠員：很明確就是這個樣子。曾經部長你也講過，你認為未來50年靠著AI晶片、AI伺服器，臺灣將繼續地引領風騷。我們透過這些都非常清楚看到臺灣就是高科技的產業鏈，其實需要穩定的、先進的、自主的能源作為後盾，我想這點無庸置疑，所以我要跟部長討論的就是臺灣的電池產業。在中國搶占全球市場、排擠臺灣電池產業的經濟侵略下，部長有沒有一個思維──就是考慮到國安、本土化、去中化的穩定儲能是一個趨勢，且勢在必行？"],["郭部長智輝：是的，如委員所指教的，針對儲能，因為我們也有用一些光電、用一些風電，所以儲能的智慧調整對我們來講相對是非常重要的部分。我們不一定要靠中國的電池產業，大家都清楚，它在安全性等其他方面不見得那麼穩健，所以我們必須要有自己的產業。"],["賴委員惠員：所以部長已經看到了，其實你也實際在產業界做到了很好的使用者體驗，知道中國的電池基本上並不是那麼安全。","在全世界去中化經濟正在風起雲湧的時候，其實中國也透過五、六兆臺幣的優渥補助發展。我們都知道，中國對經濟、包括他們的產業，就是用補貼經濟學整個輾壓式、坦克式地發展，不管是用補貼或任何方式。現在臺灣的電池產業其實面臨很大的困境，這幾年只剩下唯一一個還在不斷奮力抵抗的產業，就是電池產業。我在這裡想跟部長探討，全球鋰電池產業每年需求量是以27%的幅度不斷增加，有沒有辦法用政策面支持本土電池產業？也就是政策性地補貼所有業者，不管是國產的台電、中華電、中鋼、中船，由他們用最多電池，你也強力推動，政策性地要求使用國產電池，有沒有這樣的政策呢？"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員指教。關於這部分，我想我們必須回去再討論一下這樣的做法有沒有違反WTO規範。"],["賴委員惠員：是。"],["郭部長智輝：如果沒有的話，我覺得應該是可以考慮從這方面來強化。"],["賴委員惠員：可是，2022年我們的國家電池隊已經宣示成立了喔！關於這些問題，我想之前的行政院團隊應該已經考慮得夠周全了。如果標檢局已經核定國內電池的安全定值，就應該用政策性補貼，這個應該是沒有問題的。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，一個企業不管是做哪一方面的事業，都應該要有自己的競爭力啦！"],["賴委員惠員：沒有錯。"],["郭部長智輝：如果是靠國家補助，我覺得它還是走不出去。我們希望我們臺灣的……"],["賴委員惠員：我前面已經鋪陳了這麼久，就是說在整個去中化裡頭其實國內電池已經被中國的補貼政策打得東倒西歪了，如果現在只剩下一家，你還不來救它的話，那怎麼辦呢？我們所有的電池產業就必須仰仗進口，這是不對的啊！"],["郭部長智輝：我們會從技術力跟市場這方面強化它，在技術方面強化它。"],["賴委員惠員：所以我就講，如果給予政策性協助，由國營企業跟政府基礎建設帶頭使用國產電池的話，我覺得是非常好的示範啊！"],["郭部長智輝：是，我們會回去討論。"],["賴委員惠員：好，我也希望部長好好討論，因為因應國際產業界去中化的浪潮，我希望能協助本國電池產業、強化國際競爭力，會後請把資料給我。"],["郭部長智輝：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝賴委員惠員，部長請回座休息。","接下來請羅智強委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":272,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-15","speakers":["邱議瑩","林岱樺","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra 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00:01:31,571\n賴慧琳議員\n\n6\n00:01:59,619 --> 00:02:25,942\n無庸置疑,所以就是說跟部長討論的就是說在臺灣的一個電池在中國搶佔全球市場,排擠臺灣電池的產業的一個經濟的一個侵略裡頭,部長你有沒有一個思維就是說考慮在我們國安本土化去中化的一個穩定的儲能的趨勢,是一個趨勢那是勢在必行\n\n7\n00:02:27,442 --> 00:02:55,284\n是的如委員所指教的我想這個儲能因為我們也有用一些這個光電用一些這個風電所以儲能相對對我們來講做智慧調整是非常重要的一個部分所以我們不一定要靠這個中國的這個電池這個電池產業我想這個大家都清楚了他的這個安全性在其他的方面不見得是那麼穩健\n\n8\n00:02:56,525 --> 00:02:56,565\n賴慧琼議員\n\n9\n00:03:12,099 --> 00:03:12,139\n賴慧卿議員\n\n10\n00:03:27,879 --> 00:03:28,019\n賴慧如議員\n\n11\n00:03:47,486 --> 00:03:47,806\n李慧琼議員\n\n12\n00:04:05,967 --> 00:04:06,127\n賴慧卿議員\n\n13\n00:04:28,388 --> 00:04:43,115\n不管是在我們國產的台電還是我們的中華電還是中鋼中船他們用最多的電池然後就是我們是一個你強力的一個推動一個政策性的就是用國產的一個電池這樣的一個政策\n\n14\n00:04:44,774 --> 00:04:59,747\n謝謝委員指教這部分我想我們必須要回去再討論一下這樣子的做法有沒有違反WTO的規範那如果沒有的話我覺得應該是可以考慮從這方面來講\n\n15\n00:05:01,508 --> 00:05:19,401\n在2022年我們的國家電池隊就是已經是先是成立了我想這些問題應該在之前的那個就是我們的行政院的團隊已經考慮的夠周全了如果就是說他在能源集他在就是在在整個就是\n\n16\n00:05:20,282 --> 00:05:22,184\n報告委員,我想一個企業不管他是做哪一方面的事業,他應該要有自己的競爭力\n\n17\n00:05:42,965 --> 00:06:08,196\n如果是靠國家補助我覺得他還是走不出去所以我前面已經鋪陳了這麼久我就說在整個去中化裡頭其實我們的國內電池已經被中國的一個那個補貼就是把它打得東倒西歪了如果現在只剩下一家你還不來救他的話那怎麼辦呢我們的電池必須要所有仰仗就是進口的這個是不對的\n\n18\n00:06:09,810 --> 00:06:10,250\n我們會回去討論\n\n19\n00:06:33,133 --> 00:06:33,293\n賴慧琼議員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n569\t22843\t賴惠元委員發言謝謝主席有請中華民國經濟部長郭志輝來請郭部長部長午安午安我想這個不用質疑你是中華民國的經濟部長郭志輝是\n23379\t23659\t賴慧琼議員\n45036\t45056\t：賴惠員\n73047\t90470\t李小蘇 還是英格爾的紀辛格其實他們來到這裡為了搶曝光以外我想他們真正的在台灣的這一個電腦展是為了鞏固台灣供應的這一個廠商的一個關係應該是這樣子吧李小蘇的\n91531\t91571\t賴慧琳議員\n119619\t145942\t無庸置疑,所以就是說跟部長討論的就是說在臺灣的一個電池在中國搶佔全球市場,排擠臺灣電池的產業的一個經濟的一個侵略裡頭,部長你有沒有一個思維就是說考慮在我們國安本土化去中化的一個穩定的儲能的趨勢,是一個趨勢那是勢在必行\n147442\t175284\t是的 如委員所指教的我想這個儲能因為我們也有用一些這個光電用一些這個風電所以儲能相對對我們來講做智慧調整是非常重要的一個部分所以我們不一定要靠這個中國的這個電池這個電池產業我想這個大家都清楚了他的這個安全性在其他的方面不見得是那麼穩健\n176525\t176565\t賴慧琼議員\n192099\t192139\t賴慧卿議員\n207879\t208019\t賴慧如議員\n227486\t227806\t李慧琼議員\n245967\t246127\t賴慧卿議員\n268388\t283115\t不管是在我們國產的台電還是我們的中華電還是中鋼中船他們用最多的電池然後就是我們是一個你強力的一個推動一個政策性的就是用國產的一個電池這樣的一個政策\n284774\t299747\t謝謝委員指教這部分我想我們必須要回去再討論一下這樣子的做法有沒有違反WTO的規範那如果沒有的話我覺得應該是可以考慮從這方面來講\n301508\t319401\t在2022年我們的國家電池隊就是已經是先是成立了我想這些問題應該在之前的那個就是我們的行政院的團隊已經考慮的夠周全了如果就是說他在能源集他在就是在在整個就是\n320282\t322184\t報告委員,我想一個企業不管他是做哪一方面的事業,他應該要有自己的競爭力\n342965\t368196\t如果是靠國家補助我覺得他還是走不出去所以我前面已經鋪陳了這麼久我就說在整個去中化裡頭其實我們的國內電池已經被中國的一個那個補貼就是把它打得東倒西歪了如果現在只剩下一家你還不來救他的話那怎麼辦呢我們的電池必須要所有仰仗就是進口的這個是不對的\n369810\t370250\t我們會回去討論\n393133\t393293\t賴慧琼議員\n","txt":"賴惠元委員發言謝謝主席有請中華民國經濟部長郭志輝來請郭部長部長午安午安我想這個不用質疑你是中華民國的經濟部長郭志輝是\n賴慧琼議員\n：賴惠員\n李小蘇 還是英格爾的紀辛格其實他們來到這裡為了搶曝光以外我想他們真正的在台灣的這一個電腦展是為了鞏固台灣供應的這一個廠商的一個關係應該是這樣子吧李小蘇的\n賴慧琳議員\n無庸置疑,所以就是說跟部長討論的就是說在臺灣的一個電池在中國搶佔全球市場,排擠臺灣電池的產業的一個經濟的一個侵略裡頭,部長你有沒有一個思維就是說考慮在我們國安本土化去中化的一個穩定的儲能的趨勢,是一個趨勢那是勢在必行\n是的 如委員所指教的我想這個儲能因為我們也有用一些這個光電用一些這個風電所以儲能相對對我們來講做智慧調整是非常重要的一個部分所以我們不一定要靠這個中國的這個電池這個電池產業我想這個大家都清楚了他的這個安全性在其他的方面不見得是那麼穩健\n賴慧琼議員\n賴慧卿議員\n賴慧如議員\n李慧琼議員\n賴慧卿議員\n不管是在我們國產的台電還是我們的中華電還是中鋼中船他們用最多的電池然後就是我們是一個你強力的一個推動一個政策性的就是用國產的一個電池這樣的一個政策\n謝謝委員指教這部分我想我們必須要回去再討論一下這樣子的做法有沒有違反WTO的規範那如果沒有的話我覺得應該是可以考慮從這方面來講\n在2022年我們的國家電池隊就是已經是先是成立了我想這些問題應該在之前的那個就是我們的行政院的團隊已經考慮的夠周全了如果就是說他在能源集他在就是在在整個就是\n報告委員,我想一個企業不管他是做哪一方面的事業,他應該要有自己的競爭力\n如果是靠國家補助我覺得他還是走不出去所以我前面已經鋪陳了這麼久我就說在整個去中化裡頭其實我們的國內電池已經被中國的一個那個補貼就是把它打得東倒西歪了如果現在只剩下一家你還不來救他的話那怎麼辦呢我們的電池必須要所有仰仗就是進口的這個是不對的\n我們會回去討論\n賴慧琼議員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.569 --> 00:22.843\n賴惠元委員發言謝謝主席有請中華民國經濟部長郭志輝來請郭部長部長午安午安我想這個不用質疑你是中華民國的經濟部長郭志輝是\n\n00:23.379 --> 00:23.659\n賴慧琼議員\n\n00:45.036 --> 00:45.056\n：賴惠員\n\n01:13.047 --> 01:30.470\n李小蘇還是英格爾的紀辛格其實他們來到這裡為了搶曝光以外我想他們真正的在台灣的這一個電腦展是為了鞏固台灣供應的這一個廠商的一個關係應該是這樣子吧李小蘇的\n\n01:31.531 --> 01:31.571\n賴慧琳議員\n\n01:59.619 --> 02:25.942\n無庸置疑,所以就是說跟部長討論的就是說在臺灣的一個電池在中國搶佔全球市場,排擠臺灣電池的產業的一個經濟的一個侵略裡頭,部長你有沒有一個思維就是說考慮在我們國安本土化去中化的一個穩定的儲能的趨勢,是一個趨勢那是勢在必行\n\n02:27.442 --> 02:55.284\n是的如委員所指教的我想這個儲能因為我們也有用一些這個光電用一些這個風電所以儲能相對對我們來講做智慧調整是非常重要的一個部分所以我們不一定要靠這個中國的這個電池這個電池產業我想這個大家都清楚了他的這個安全性在其他的方面不見得是那麼穩健\n\n02:56.525 --> 02:56.565\n賴慧琼議員\n\n03:12.099 --> 03:12.139\n賴慧卿議員\n\n03:27.879 --> 03:28.019\n賴慧如議員\n\n03:47.486 --> 03:47.806\n李慧琼議員\n\n04:05.967 --> 04:06.127\n賴慧卿議員\n\n04:28.388 --> 04:43.115\n不管是在我們國產的台電還是我們的中華電還是中鋼中船他們用最多的電池然後就是我們是一個你強力的一個推動一個政策性的就是用國產的一個電池這樣的一個政策\n\n04:44.774 --> 04:59.747\n謝謝委員指教這部分我想我們必須要回去再討論一下這樣子的做法有沒有違反WTO的規範那如果沒有的話我覺得應該是可以考慮從這方面來講\n\n05:01.508 --> 05:19.401\n在2022年我們的國家電池隊就是已經是先是成立了我想這些問題應該在之前的那個就是我們的行政院的團隊已經考慮的夠周全了如果就是說他在能源集他在就是在在整個就是\n\n05:20.282 --> 05:22.184\n報告委員,我想一個企業不管他是做哪一方面的事業,他應該要有自己的競爭力\n\n05:42.965 --> 06:08.196\n如果是靠國家補助我覺得他還是走不出去所以我前面已經鋪陳了這麼久我就說在整個去中化裡頭其實我們的國內電池已經被中國的一個那個補貼就是把它打得東倒西歪了如果現在只剩下一家你還不來救他的話那怎麼辦呢我們的電池必須要所有仰仗就是進口的這個是不對的\n\n06:09.810 --> 06:10.250\n我們會回去討論\n\n06:33.133 --> 06:33.293\n賴慧琼議員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.569,"end":22.843,"text":"賴惠元委員發言謝謝主席有請中華民國經濟部長郭志輝來請郭部長部長午安午安我想這個不用質疑你是中華民國的經濟部長郭志輝是"},{"start":23.379,"end":23.659,"text":"賴慧琼議員"},{"start":45.036,"end":45.056,"text":"：賴惠員"},{"start":73.047,"end":90.47,"text":"李小蘇 還是英格爾的紀辛格其實他們來到這裡為了搶曝光以外我想他們真正的在台灣的這一個電腦展是為了鞏固台灣供應的這一個廠商的一個關係應該是這樣子吧李小蘇的"},{"start":91.531,"end":91.571,"text":"賴慧琳議員"},{"start":119.619,"end":145.942,"text":"無庸置疑,所以就是說跟部長討論的就是說在臺灣的一個電池在中國搶佔全球市場,排擠臺灣電池的產業的一個經濟的一個侵略裡頭,部長你有沒有一個思維就是說考慮在我們國安本土化去中化的一個穩定的儲能的趨勢,是一個趨勢那是勢在必行"},{"start":147.442,"end":175.284,"text":"是的 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