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13:32:19","影片長度":"00:09:01","會議時間":"2024-06-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-05","start_time":"2024-06-05T13:23:18+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-05T13:32:19+08:00","duration":541,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-15"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":1256,"blocks":[["涂委員權吉：（13時23分）謝謝主席，請郭部長。"],["主席：請郭部長。"],["涂委員權吉：郭部長你好。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["涂委員權吉：郭部長對經濟部各方面應該都很專業，我想請問一下你知道SRF是什麼東西嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：不知道。"],["涂委員權吉：SRF是現在最新的，叫做固體再生燃料。那可能要請署長來幫忙回答一下。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["涂委員權吉：請問我們認定SRF是綠能嗎？"],["游署長振偉：SRF要看它廢棄物的來源，廢棄物的來源如果包含石化的話，就沒有辦法被認定為綠能。"],["涂委員權吉：那麼臺灣SRF的標準可以算綠能嗎？"],["游署長振偉：這還是要看它的SRF組成的成分，如果它是來自農業資材，這些當然可以被認定為是綠能；還是要看它的組成。"],["涂委員權吉：如果是像我們臺灣的SRF，它並沒有特別限定，它裡面有包含廢輪胎、PVC管，還有一些塑料、金屬材料，這些燃燒出來的東西算是綠能嗎？"],["游署長振偉：這個部分還是要看它的成分……"],["涂委員權吉：廢輪胎燒出來的東西可以算綠能嗎？"],["游署長振偉：以廢輪胎來講，石化的話如果是橡膠，當然就不能被歸納為綠能的部分，但是我們講說用廢棄物製成燃料再發電，目前在我們的再生條例裡面是認定為再生能源，但它不是綠能。"],["涂委員權吉：好，所以基本上以臺灣SRF的標準，嚴格來講不能算是綠能，只能算是再生能源嘛！"],["游署長振偉：還是要看它的成分啦！我跟委員報告，還是……"],["涂委員權吉：有碳排可以算綠能嗎？"],["游署長振偉：它裡面如果有包含石化原料的話……"],["涂委員權吉：就不算是綠能嘛！"],["游署長振偉：對。"],["涂委員權吉：臺灣的排放標準其實就包含這些，所以嚴格來講，它含有這些東西，燒出來就不算是綠能。","那我想請問一下，109年的時候，經濟部王美花部長跟我們桃園市的鄭文燦市長針對桃園的三家SRF廠入園……這部分署長應該知道吧？這三家廠商就是臺灣立方、可寧衛和立疆。"],["郭部長智輝：是，這個知道。"],["涂委員權吉：針對這三家廠商，後來因為民眾說沒有環評、沒有開公聽會而開始抗爭，我們去瞭解以後，其實從107年開始，我們的經發局、專業主管單位就反對這三家SRF廠入園，後來他們也特別針對汽電共生的部分，很明確地說汽電共生只能是天然氣，也就是說，這個SRF的發電廠是被禁止入園的，但是後來因為王美花部長開會要求鄭文燦市長，希望以專案來入園。何謂專案入園？就是依規定沒有辦法，但是以國家重大能源政策，用特別的方式讓它入園。但是後來發生民眾抗爭，而且在民眾抗爭之後，我們才發現鄭市長原先也是不同意的，是因為經濟部要求，後來鄭市長也說：那你發推薦函，我再允許它入園。","這個部分署長應該知道吧？後來因為民眾抗爭，又取消了這個推薦函，你應該也瞭解吧？","那我請問一下，當初這三家廠商入園之後，我們跟廠商有沒有信賴保護原則？"],["郭部長智輝：我請連署長回答一下。"],["連署長錦漳：我跟委員報告，當初是基於剛才講的再生能源還有循環經濟……"],["涂委員權吉：沒關係，我的意思是說，當初因為經濟部推薦，我們鄭市長才同意它入園……"],["連署長錦漳：經濟部推薦函沒有……"],["涂委員權吉：這裡面有沒有信賴保護原則？"],["連署長錦漳：經濟部推薦函只是純粹的一個建議，整個會議紀錄也作很清楚，還是要回歸到桃園市政府的主管條例去處理。"],["涂委員權吉：桃園市政府鄭市長有講，他是依經濟部的推薦函才同意這三家廠商入園。所以後來經濟部撤銷這個推薦函，市府也在經濟部撤銷推薦函之後取消他們入園，但是現在這三家廠商已經對桃園市政府提告，不知道經濟部知不知道這個事情？"],["連署長錦漳：他們是提訴願。"],["涂委員權吉：對，提訴願，就是訴訟嘛！當初就是有信賴保護原則，所以他們才提出訴願，對不對？"],["連署長錦漳：跟委員報告，我們那個建議函在所有的入園許可當中不是必備要件，完全是回到桃園市政府當時主管的入園相關許可去……"],["涂委員權吉：那我請問一下，你們當初推薦他們入園的原因是什麼？"],["連署長錦漳：剛剛我有跟委員報告過，這是基於第一個要發展再生能源，第二個是循環經濟，第三個是因為如果這三個廠起來的話，有一些額外的規定：第一個，它要處理60%桃園市的垃圾量，而且不能在境內……"],["涂委員權吉：署長，我重點請問一下，因為經濟部當初推薦，所以市府才讓他們入園，結果後來經濟部為什麼又取消？市府當初有講是依經濟部的推薦才同意它入園，後來經濟部取消這個推薦函，表示這個推薦已經不復存在，所以市府因推薦函的取消，也取消它入園，但是後來廠商提出訴願，我想請問這個部分難道經濟部不用負責，全部由桃園市政府來承擔嗎？"],["連署長錦漳：我跟委員報告，剛剛我也特別提到這個只是一個建議，我們的會議紀錄寫得非常清楚，一切還是要回到桃園市政府的土管條例……"],["涂委員權吉：好。我今天講重點，當初依經濟部上級單位專業的推薦，市府也特別講它是依經濟部的推薦，它才同意入園，鄭文燦市長講得很清楚，後來你們主動收回這個推薦函，表示這個推薦的原因已經不復存在，所以我這邊簡單兩點建議：現在民眾已經抗爭，而且針對SRF，署長從頭到尾根本沒有辦法大聲說它是綠能，其實它根本就是垃圾焚化爐，你去看看排放標準，它根本就是焚化爐。所以我在這邊建議，如果真的要處理，我建議經濟部撤銷這個再生能源的發電設備許可，還有撤銷這個廠商再生發電能源的躉購合約，這才能夠真正為民眾解決問題，不應該當初經濟部下指導棋，現在把所有要國賠的事情通通推給桃園市政府，我覺得經濟部這是不負責任的。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，再生能源是沒有問題的，但是它不是綠能。"],["涂委員權吉：對啊！我講重點它就不是綠能，所以現在民眾就反彈了，當初講SRF聽起來很高科技，結果根本就是垃圾焚化爐，你看看那個標準，燒廢輪胎、燒PVC管、燒金屬建材物，燒出來的東西怎麼可能是綠能？所以這一部分真的要處理，就像我剛剛講的那兩樣，再生能源的許可還有再生能源發電的躉購合約真正取消，才能真的為民眾解決問題，不應該讓桃園市政府單方面去面對廠商國賠的問題。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，這個是再生能源沒有錯，只是不是綠能，就是你剛才所說的不是綠能……"],["涂委員權吉：好，我建議經濟部……"],["郭部長智輝：它是再生能源，所以我沒有辦法撤銷它是再生能源。"],["涂委員權吉：好，我希望經濟部能夠跟桃園市政府共同面臨這個問題，不要讓桃園市政府單獨面對廠商訴願、國賠的問題。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["主席：好，謝謝涂委員。","接下來我們請林楚茵、林楚茵、林楚茵委員不在。","高金素梅、高金素梅、高金素梅委員不在。","蘇清泉、蘇清泉、蘇清泉委員不在。","馬文君、馬文君、馬文君委員不在。","徐欣瑩、徐欣瑩、徐欣瑩委員不在。","林月琴、林月琴、林月琴委員不在。","我們請陳冠廷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":272,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-15","speakers":["邱議瑩","林岱樺","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra 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\"組\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 76.812, \"end\": 76.832, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}]}, {\"start\": 78.633, \"end\": 90.053, \"text\": \"如果像我們臺灣的SRF它並沒有特別限定它裡面有包含廢輪胎、PVC管還有一些塑料、金屬材料那這些燃燒出來的部分的東西它算是綠能嗎?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 78.633, \"end\": 78.834, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 78.834, \"end\": 79.094, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 79.094, \"end\": 79.294, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 79.294, \"end\": 79.415, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 79.415, \"end\": 79.615, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"S\", \"start\": 79.615, \"end\": 79.755, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"R\", \"start\": 79.755, \"end\": 80.537, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"F\", \"start\": 80.537, \"end\": 81.318, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 81.318, \"end\": 81.639, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"並\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 81.639, 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\"呃這個部分就要看他的還是要還是要看他的這些燒出來的東西廢輪胎燒出來可以算綠能嗎廢輪胎如果他就是石化的話如果是橡膠當然他就不能被歸納為是綠能的部分但是我們講說用廢棄物製成燃料再發電這目前在我們的再生條例裡面這個是認定為再生能源但是他不是綠能\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"呃\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 91.755, \"end\": 91.855, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 91.855, \"end\": 92.076, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 92.076, \"end\": 92.196, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 92.196, \"end\": 92.376, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 92.376, \"end\": 92.616, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 92.616, \"end\": 92.896, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 92.896, \"end\": 93.537, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 93.537, \"end\": 93.637, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 93.637, \"end\": 93.757, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 93.757, \"end\": 93.957, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 93.957, 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\"end\": 425.61, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 425.61, \"end\": 425.63, \"score\": 0.003}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 425.63, \"end\": 425.89, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 425.89, \"end\": 426.131, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"楚\", \"start\": 426.131, \"end\": 426.811, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 426.811, \"end\": 426.992, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 426.992, \"end\": 427.292, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 427.292, \"end\": 427.952, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 427.952, \"end\": 427.972, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"動\"}]}, {\"start\": 428.613, \"end\": 437.077, \"text\": \"收回這個推薦表示這個推薦的原因已經不復存在所以我認為這邊簡單兩點建議我是認為民眾已經抗爭而且其實SRF署長從頭到尾根本沒有辦法大聲說他是綠能其實他根本就是垃圾焚化爐你去看看這個排放標準根本就是焚化爐所以我這邊建議\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"收\", \"start\": 428.613, \"end\": 428.833, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 428.833, 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435.797, \"end\": 435.817, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"焚\"}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 435.817, \"end\": 435.917, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"爐\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 435.917, \"end\": 435.937, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 435.937, \"end\": 435.977, \"score\": 0.169}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 435.977, \"end\": 436.117, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 436.117, \"end\": 436.557, \"score\": 0.774}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"排\", \"start\": 436.557, \"end\": 436.577, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 436.577, \"end\": 436.597, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"準\", \"start\": 436.597, \"end\": 436.657, \"score\": 0.663}, {\"word\": \"根\", \"start\": 436.657, \"end\": 436.697, \"score\": 0.043}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 436.697, \"end\": 436.717, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 436.717, \"end\": 436.737, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 436.737, \"end\": 436.857, \"score\": 0.722}, {\"word\": \"焚\"}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 436.857, \"end\": 436.877, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"爐\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 436.877, \"end\": 436.977, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 436.977, \"end\": 437.037, \"score\": 0.093}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 437.037, \"end\": 437.057, \"score\": 0.018}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 437.057, \"end\": 437.077, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"議\"}]}, {\"start\": 452.165, \"end\": 474.979, \"text\": \"如果真的要處理的話我建議經濟部撤銷這個再生能源的發電設備許可還有撤銷這個廠商再生發電能源的准購合約這才能夠真正為民眾解決問題不應該當初經濟部下指導期現在把所有要國賠的事情通通推給桃園市政府我覺得這個經濟部是不負責任的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 452.165, \"end\": 452.445, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 452.445, \"end\": 452.705, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"真\", \"start\": 452.705, \"end\": 452.966, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 452.966, \"end\": 453.446, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 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458.989, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"許\", \"start\": 458.989, \"end\": 459.209, \"score\": 0.689}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 459.209, \"end\": 459.89, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 459.89, \"end\": 460.41, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"撤\", \"start\": 460.41, \"end\": 461.371, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"銷\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"廠\"}, {\"word\": \"商\", \"start\": 461.371, \"end\": 461.971, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 461.971, \"end\": 462.251, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 462.251, \"end\": 462.992, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 462.992, \"end\": 463.232, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"源\", \"start\": 463.232, \"end\": 463.472, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 463.472, \"end\": 463.692, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"准\", 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{\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 468.775, \"end\": 468.955, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 468.955, \"end\": 469.195, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"指\", \"start\": 469.195, \"end\": 469.576, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"導\"}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 469.576, \"end\": 470.196, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 470.196, \"end\": 470.336, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 470.336, \"end\": 470.596, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 470.596, \"end\": 470.876, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 470.876, \"end\": 471.377, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 471.377, \"end\": 471.957, \"score\": 0.773}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"賠\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 471.957, \"end\": 472.117, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 472.117, \"end\": 472.297, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 472.297, \"end\": 472.738, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"通\", 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\"start\": 523.148, \"end\": 523.168, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,151 --> 00:00:00,171\n請國務部長\n\n2\n00:00:25,127 --> 00:00:36,393\n郭部長您好委員好我想請問一下郭部長你這個對我們這個經濟部的方面應該是很專業我想請問一下那這SIF你知道這是什麼東西嗎不知道\n\n3\n00:00:40,067 --> 00:00:53,468\n那SRF它是現在最新的叫做固體再生燃料那是不是那個那可能請署長來幫忙回答一下那我請問一下SRF的部分我們這邊認定它是綠能嗎\n\n4\n00:00:57,625 --> 00:01:16,832\n呃,SRF要看它的廢棄物的來源,那廢棄物的來源如果包含石化的話,它就沒有辦法被認定為是綠能。那台灣的SRF的標準可以算綠能嗎?對,這個還是要看它的這個SRF的組成的成分,如果它是來自農業資材,這些當然可以被認定為是綠能,還要看它的組成。\n\n5\n00:01:18,633 --> 00:01:30,053\n如果像我們臺灣的SRF它並沒有特別限定它裡面有包含廢輪胎、PVC管還有一些塑料、金屬材料那這些燃燒出來的部分的東西它算是綠能嗎?\n\n6\n00:01:31,755 --> 00:01:52,469\n呃這個部分就要看他的還是要還是要看他的這些燒出來的東西廢輪胎燒出來可以算綠能嗎廢輪胎如果他就是石化的話如果是橡膠當然他就不能被歸納為是綠能的部分但是我們講說用廢棄物製成燃料再發電這目前在我們的再生條例裡面這個是認定為再生能源但是他不是綠能\n\n7\n00:01:53,450 --> 00:02:07,228\n好所以基本上臺灣的SRF其他的標準嚴格來講算起來不能算是綠能只能算是再生能源嗎還是要看它的成分啦我跟委員報告那有碳排可以算綠能嗎\n\n8\n00:02:08,817 --> 00:02:24,408\n就是說它如果是裡面有包含石化原料的話就不算是綠能嘛但是所以我臺灣的排放標準其實就是包含這些所以嚴格來講它有這些東西燒出來就不能算是綠能那我想請問一下那我們針對我們109年的時候我們經濟部長那時候王美花部長\n\n9\n00:02:28,911 --> 00:02:50,086\n他有當時有跟我們那時候的桃園市長鄭文燦市長好針對桃園有3家SRF廠商入園這部分署長應該知道吧這3家就是台灣地方可寧會跟麗江3家廠嗎是這個知道好那針對這3家廠後來因為民眾說沒有環評沒有開公聽會後來\n\n10\n00:02:56,854 --> 00:03:18,754\n民眾就開始抗爭那我們去了解以後那其實在107年開始的時候我們經發級專業主管單位都反對這三家SRF廠入園然後後來也針對特別也針對氣電工生的部分他們也很明確說氣電工生只能天然氣所以也就是說這SRF廠的發電廠\n\n11\n00:03:21,516 --> 00:03:21,876\n委員會主席\n\n12\n00:03:43,177 --> 00:04:05,775\n因為民眾的抗爭那我想請問一下後來民眾的抗爭之後我們也當時我們才發現原來鄭市長原先也是不同意的那後來也因為經濟部要求後來鄭市長也說那你發推薦函我再允許他入園那署長這部分你應該知道吧\n\n13\n00:04:07,213 --> 00:04:23,352\n那後來因為民眾抗爭又取消了這個推薦函那這部分應該也了解吧那我請問一下那當初這三家廠商入園之後我們跟廠商有沒有信賴保護原則\n\n14\n00:04:26,243 --> 00:04:53,770\n我請這個署長回答一下我跟委員報告齁當初是基於剛才講的再生能源還有循環經濟沒關係我意思是說當初因為經濟部推薦嘛我們正式的同意他入園那這裡面有沒有信賴保護原則經濟部推薦案只是純粹的一個建議那整個裡面也會議區也做得很清楚還是要回歸到桃園市政府的所有的條例去處理所以就是\n\n15\n00:04:54,960 --> 00:05:20,624\n桃園市政府政事長有講他是依經濟部的推薦函才同意這三家廠商入園那所以現在我們經濟部撤銷這個推薦函那市府也依我們經濟部撤銷這個推薦函之後也取消他入園但是現在這三家廠商已經對桃園市政府提告不知道我們經濟部知不知道這個事情\n\n16\n00:05:21,204 --> 00:05:45,959\n那是提那個訴願對提訴願嘛就是訴訟嘛所以這個當初就是有信賴保護原則所以他才提出訴願對不對各位委員報告我們那個建議函在所有的入園許可中不是必備要件完全是回到桃園市政府當時的所謂的圖管那個入園的相關的許可去好那我請問一下你當初推薦他入園的原因是什麼\n\n17\n00:05:46,857 --> 00:05:47,438\n臺灣市政府垃圾處理量\n\n18\n00:06:01,857 --> 00:06:24,578\n好那重點我請問一下處長我重點請問一下那現在因為經濟部當初推薦所以市府才讓他入園結果後來為什麼經濟部又取消那市府當初有講我依經濟部的推薦我才同意他入園所以後來經濟部取消這個推薦函表示這個推薦已經不復存在所以後來\n\n19\n00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:49,614\n市府一推薦欄的取消所以也取消他入園但是後來廠商提出這個訴願那我想請問這個部分難道經濟部不用負責全部由桃園市政府來承擔嗎我跟委員報告剛剛我也特別提到這個只是一個建議那我們那個會議記錄寫得非常清楚所有一切還是要回到桃園市政府的圖管條例\n\n20\n00:06:50,675 --> 00:07:07,972\n好那我今天講重點當初依經濟部的推薦經濟部上級單位專業的推薦市府也特別有講他是依我們經濟部的推薦他才同意入園這我們在資料講得很清楚那後來你們主動\n\n21\n00:07:08,613 --> 00:07:17,077\n收回這個推薦表示這個推薦的原因已經不復存在所以我認為這邊簡單兩點建議我是認為民眾已經抗爭而且其實SRF署長從頭到尾根本沒有辦法大聲說他是綠能其實他根本就是垃圾焚化爐你去看看這個排放標準根本就是焚化爐所以我這邊建議\n\n22\n00:07:32,165 --> 00:07:54,979\n如果真的要處理的話我建議經濟部撤銷這個再生能源的發電設備許可還有撤銷這個廠商再生發電能源的准購合約這才能夠真正為民眾解決問題不應該當初經濟部下指導期現在把所有要國賠的事情通通推給桃園市政府我覺得這個經濟部是不負責任的\n\n23\n00:07:57,995 --> 00:08:23,733\n報告委員這個再生能源是沒有問題的但是他不是綠能對啊我就講重點就不是綠能所以現在民眾就反彈啊當初講SRF聽起來很高科技結果根本就是垃圾焚化爐你看看那個標準燒廢輪胎燒PVC管燒金屬建材物燒出來的東西怎麼可能是綠能所以這部分我今天講的重點真的要處理就像我剛剛講的那兩樣再生能源\n\n24\n00:08:25,974 --> 00:08:42,128\n的許可還有再生能源發電的賭購合約真正取消才能為民眾解決真的問題不應該讓桃園市政府單方面去面對廠商國賠的問題報告委員這個是再生能源沒有錯這是不是綠能就是你剛才所說的不是綠能\n\n25\n00:08:42,828 --> 00:08:43,168\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n151\t171\t請國務部長\n25127\t36393\t郭部長您好 委員好我想請問一下 郭部長你這個對我們這個經濟部的方面應該是很專業我想請問一下 那這SIF你知道這是什麼東西嗎 不知道\n40067\t53468\t那SRF它是現在最新的叫做固體再生燃料那是不是那個那可能請署長來幫忙回答一下那我請問一下SRF的部分我們這邊認定它是綠能嗎\n57625\t76832\t呃,SRF要看它的廢棄物的來源,那廢棄物的來源如果包含石化的話,它就沒有辦法被認定為是綠能。那台灣的SRF的標準可以算綠能嗎?對,這個還是要看它的這個SRF的組成的成分,如果它是來自農業資材,這些當然可以被認定為是綠能,還要看它的組成。\n78633\t90053\t如果像我們臺灣的SRF它並沒有特別限定它裡面有包含廢輪胎、PVC管還有一些塑料、金屬材料那這些燃燒出來的部分的東西它算是綠能嗎?\n91755\t112469\t呃這個部分就要看他的還是要還是要看他的這些燒出來的東西廢輪胎燒出來可以算綠能嗎廢輪胎如果他就是石化的話如果是橡膠當然他就不能被歸納為是綠能的部分但是我們講說用廢棄物製成燃料再發電這目前在我們的再生條例裡面這個是認定為再生能源但是他不是綠能\n113450\t127228\t好 所以基本上臺灣的SRF其他的標準嚴格來講算起來不能算是綠能只能算是再生能源嗎還是要看它的成分啦我跟委員報告那有碳排可以算綠能嗎\n128817\t144408\t就是說它如果是裡面有包含石化原料的話就不算是綠能嘛但是所以我臺灣的排放標準其實就是包含這些所以嚴格來講它有這些東西燒出來就不能算是綠能那我想請問一下那我們針對我們109年的時候我們經濟部長那時候王美花部長\n148911\t170086\t他有當時有跟我們那時候的桃園市長鄭文燦市長好針對桃園有3家SRF廠商入園這部分署長應該知道吧這3家就是台灣地方可寧會跟麗江3家廠嗎是這個知道好那針對這3家廠後來因為民眾說沒有環評沒有開公聽會後來\n176854\t198754\t民眾就開始抗爭那我們去了解以後那其實在107年開始的時候我們經發級專業主管單位都反對這三家SRF廠入園然後後來也針對特別也針對氣電工生的部分他們也很明確說氣電工生只能天然氣所以也就是說這SRF廠的發電廠\n201516\t201876\t委員會主席\n223177\t245775\t因為民眾的抗爭那我想請問一下後來民眾的抗爭之後我們也當時我們才發現原來鄭市長原先也是不同意的那後來也因為經濟部要求後來鄭市長也說那你發推薦函我再允許他入園那署長這部分你應該知道吧\n247213\t263352\t那後來因為民眾抗爭又取消了這個推薦函那這部分應該也了解吧那我請問一下那當初這三家廠商入園之後我們跟廠商有沒有信賴保護原則\n266243\t293770\t我請這個 署長回答一下我跟委員報告齁 當初是基於 剛才講的再生能源還有循環經濟沒關係我意思是說 當初因為經濟部推薦嘛 我們正式的同意他入園那這裡面有沒有信賴保護原則經濟部推薦案只是純粹的一個建議 那整個 裡面也會議區也做得很清楚還是要回歸到桃園市政府的所有的條例去處理所以就是\n294960\t320624\t桃園市政府政事長有講他是依經濟部的推薦函才同意這三家廠商入園那所以現在我們經濟部撤銷這個推薦函那市府也依我們經濟部撤銷這個推薦函之後也取消他入園但是現在這三家廠商已經對桃園市政府提告不知道我們經濟部知不知道這個事情\n321204\t345959\t那是提那個訴願對提訴願嘛就是訴訟嘛所以這個當初就是有信賴保護原則所以他才提出訴願對不對各位委員報告我們那個建議函在所有的入園許可中不是必備要件完全是回到桃園市政府當時的所謂的圖管那個入園的相關的許可去好那我請問一下你當初推薦他入園的原因是什麼\n346857\t347438\t臺灣市政府垃圾處理量\n361857\t384578\t好 那重點我請問一下 處長我重點請問一下那現在因為經濟部當初推薦所以市府才讓他入園結果後來為什麼經濟部又取消那市府當初有講我依經濟部的推薦我才同意他入園所以後來經濟部取消這個推薦函表示這個推薦已經不復存在所以後來\n385279\t409614\t市府一推薦欄的取消所以也取消他入園但是後來廠商提出這個訴願那我想請問這個部分難道經濟部不用負責全部由桃園市政府來承擔嗎我跟委員報告剛剛我也特別提到這個只是一個建議那我們那個會議記錄寫得非常清楚所有一切還是要回到桃園市政府的圖管條例\n410675\t427972\t好 那我今天講重點當初依經濟部的推薦經濟部上級單位專業的推薦市府也特別有講他是依我們經濟部的推薦他才同意入園這我們在資料講得很清楚那後來你們主動\n428613\t437077\t收回這個推薦表示這個推薦的原因已經不復存在所以我認為這邊簡單兩點建議我是認為民眾已經抗爭而且其實SRF署長從頭到尾根本沒有辦法大聲說他是綠能其實他根本就是垃圾焚化爐你去看看這個排放標準根本就是焚化爐所以我這邊建議\n452165\t474979\t如果真的要處理的話我建議經濟部撤銷這個再生能源的發電設備許可還有撤銷這個廠商再生發電能源的准購合約這才能夠真正為民眾解決問題不應該當初經濟部下指導期現在把所有要國賠的事情通通推給桃園市政府我覺得這個經濟部是不負責任的\n477995\t503733\t報告委員這個再生能源是沒有問題的但是他不是綠能對啊我就講重點就不是綠能所以現在民眾就反彈啊當初講SRF聽起來很高科技結果根本就是垃圾焚化爐你看看那個標準燒廢輪胎燒PVC管燒金屬建材物燒出來的東西怎麼可能是綠能所以這部分我今天講的重點真的要處理就像我剛剛講的那兩樣再生能源\n505974\t522128\t的許可還有再生能源發電的賭購合約真正取消才能為民眾解決真的問題不應該讓桃園市政府單方面去面對廠商國賠的問題報告委員這個是再生能源沒有錯這是不是綠能就是你剛才所說的不是綠能\n522828\t523168\t主席\n","txt":"請國務部長\n郭部長您好 委員好我想請問一下 郭部長你這個對我們這個經濟部的方面應該是很專業我想請問一下 那這SIF你知道這是什麼東西嗎 不知道\n那SRF它是現在最新的叫做固體再生燃料那是不是那個那可能請署長來幫忙回答一下那我請問一下SRF的部分我們這邊認定它是綠能嗎\n呃,SRF要看它的廢棄物的來源,那廢棄物的來源如果包含石化的話,它就沒有辦法被認定為是綠能。那台灣的SRF的標準可以算綠能嗎?對,這個還是要看它的這個SRF的組成的成分,如果它是來自農業資材,這些當然可以被認定為是綠能,還要看它的組成。\n如果像我們臺灣的SRF它並沒有特別限定它裡面有包含廢輪胎、PVC管還有一些塑料、金屬材料那這些燃燒出來的部分的東西它算是綠能嗎?\n呃這個部分就要看他的還是要還是要看他的這些燒出來的東西廢輪胎燒出來可以算綠能嗎廢輪胎如果他就是石化的話如果是橡膠當然他就不能被歸納為是綠能的部分但是我們講說用廢棄物製成燃料再發電這目前在我們的再生條例裡面這個是認定為再生能源但是他不是綠能\n好 所以基本上臺灣的SRF其他的標準嚴格來講算起來不能算是綠能只能算是再生能源嗎還是要看它的成分啦我跟委員報告那有碳排可以算綠能嗎\n就是說它如果是裡面有包含石化原料的話就不算是綠能嘛但是所以我臺灣的排放標準其實就是包含這些所以嚴格來講它有這些東西燒出來就不能算是綠能那我想請問一下那我們針對我們109年的時候我們經濟部長那時候王美花部長\n他有當時有跟我們那時候的桃園市長鄭文燦市長好針對桃園有3家SRF廠商入園這部分署長應該知道吧這3家就是台灣地方可寧會跟麗江3家廠嗎是這個知道好那針對這3家廠後來因為民眾說沒有環評沒有開公聽會後來\n民眾就開始抗爭那我們去了解以後那其實在107年開始的時候我們經發級專業主管單位都反對這三家SRF廠入園然後後來也針對特別也針對氣電工生的部分他們也很明確說氣電工生只能天然氣所以也就是說這SRF廠的發電廠\n委員會主席\n因為民眾的抗爭那我想請問一下後來民眾的抗爭之後我們也當時我們才發現原來鄭市長原先也是不同意的那後來也因為經濟部要求後來鄭市長也說那你發推薦函我再允許他入園那署長這部分你應該知道吧\n那後來因為民眾抗爭又取消了這個推薦函那這部分應該也了解吧那我請問一下那當初這三家廠商入園之後我們跟廠商有沒有信賴保護原則\n我請這個 署長回答一下我跟委員報告齁 當初是基於 剛才講的再生能源還有循環經濟沒關係我意思是說 當初因為經濟部推薦嘛 我們正式的同意他入園那這裡面有沒有信賴保護原則經濟部推薦案只是純粹的一個建議 那整個 裡面也會議區也做得很清楚還是要回歸到桃園市政府的所有的條例去處理所以就是\n桃園市政府政事長有講他是依經濟部的推薦函才同意這三家廠商入園那所以現在我們經濟部撤銷這個推薦函那市府也依我們經濟部撤銷這個推薦函之後也取消他入園但是現在這三家廠商已經對桃園市政府提告不知道我們經濟部知不知道這個事情\n那是提那個訴願對提訴願嘛就是訴訟嘛所以這個當初就是有信賴保護原則所以他才提出訴願對不對各位委員報告我們那個建議函在所有的入園許可中不是必備要件完全是回到桃園市政府當時的所謂的圖管那個入園的相關的許可去好那我請問一下你當初推薦他入園的原因是什麼\n臺灣市政府垃圾處理量\n好 那重點我請問一下 處長我重點請問一下那現在因為經濟部當初推薦所以市府才讓他入園結果後來為什麼經濟部又取消那市府當初有講我依經濟部的推薦我才同意他入園所以後來經濟部取消這個推薦函表示這個推薦已經不復存在所以後來\n市府一推薦欄的取消所以也取消他入園但是後來廠商提出這個訴願那我想請問這個部分難道經濟部不用負責全部由桃園市政府來承擔嗎我跟委員報告剛剛我也特別提到這個只是一個建議那我們那個會議記錄寫得非常清楚所有一切還是要回到桃園市政府的圖管條例\n好 那我今天講重點當初依經濟部的推薦經濟部上級單位專業的推薦市府也特別有講他是依我們經濟部的推薦他才同意入園這我們在資料講得很清楚那後來你們主動\n收回這個推薦表示這個推薦的原因已經不復存在所以我認為這邊簡單兩點建議我是認為民眾已經抗爭而且其實SRF署長從頭到尾根本沒有辦法大聲說他是綠能其實他根本就是垃圾焚化爐你去看看這個排放標準根本就是焚化爐所以我這邊建議\n如果真的要處理的話我建議經濟部撤銷這個再生能源的發電設備許可還有撤銷這個廠商再生發電能源的准購合約這才能夠真正為民眾解決問題不應該當初經濟部下指導期現在把所有要國賠的事情通通推給桃園市政府我覺得這個經濟部是不負責任的\n報告委員這個再生能源是沒有問題的但是他不是綠能對啊我就講重點就不是綠能所以現在民眾就反彈啊當初講SRF聽起來很高科技結果根本就是垃圾焚化爐你看看那個標準燒廢輪胎燒PVC管燒金屬建材物燒出來的東西怎麼可能是綠能所以這部分我今天講的重點真的要處理就像我剛剛講的那兩樣再生能源\n的許可還有再生能源發電的賭購合約真正取消才能為民眾解決真的問題不應該讓桃園市政府單方面去面對廠商國賠的問題報告委員這個是再生能源沒有錯這是不是綠能就是你剛才所說的不是綠能\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.151 --> 00:00.171\n請國務部長\n\n00:25.127 --> 00:36.393\n郭部長您好委員好我想請問一下郭部長你這個對我們這個經濟部的方面應該是很專業我想請問一下那這SIF你知道這是什麼東西嗎不知道\n\n00:40.067 --> 00:53.468\n那SRF它是現在最新的叫做固體再生燃料那是不是那個那可能請署長來幫忙回答一下那我請問一下SRF的部分我們這邊認定它是綠能嗎\n\n00:57.625 --> 01:16.832\n呃,SRF要看它的廢棄物的來源,那廢棄物的來源如果包含石化的話,它就沒有辦法被認定為是綠能。那台灣的SRF的標準可以算綠能嗎?對,這個還是要看它的這個SRF的組成的成分,如果它是來自農業資材,這些當然可以被認定為是綠能,還要看它的組成。\n\n01:18.633 --> 01:30.053\n如果像我們臺灣的SRF它並沒有特別限定它裡面有包含廢輪胎、PVC管還有一些塑料、金屬材料那這些燃燒出來的部分的東西它算是綠能嗎?\n\n01:31.755 --> 01:52.469\n呃這個部分就要看他的還是要還是要看他的這些燒出來的東西廢輪胎燒出來可以算綠能嗎廢輪胎如果他就是石化的話如果是橡膠當然他就不能被歸納為是綠能的部分但是我們講說用廢棄物製成燃料再發電這目前在我們的再生條例裡面這個是認定為再生能源但是他不是綠能\n\n01:53.450 --> 02:07.228\n好所以基本上臺灣的SRF其他的標準嚴格來講算起來不能算是綠能只能算是再生能源嗎還是要看它的成分啦我跟委員報告那有碳排可以算綠能嗎\n\n02:08.817 --> 02:24.408\n就是說它如果是裡面有包含石化原料的話就不算是綠能嘛但是所以我臺灣的排放標準其實就是包含這些所以嚴格來講它有這些東西燒出來就不能算是綠能那我想請問一下那我們針對我們109年的時候我們經濟部長那時候王美花部長\n\n02:28.911 --> 02:50.086\n他有當時有跟我們那時候的桃園市長鄭文燦市長好針對桃園有3家SRF廠商入園這部分署長應該知道吧這3家就是台灣地方可寧會跟麗江3家廠嗎是這個知道好那針對這3家廠後來因為民眾說沒有環評沒有開公聽會後來\n\n02:56.854 --> 03:18.754\n民眾就開始抗爭那我們去了解以後那其實在107年開始的時候我們經發級專業主管單位都反對這三家SRF廠入園然後後來也針對特別也針對氣電工生的部分他們也很明確說氣電工生只能天然氣所以也就是說這SRF廠的發電廠\n\n03:21.516 --> 03:21.876\n委員會主席\n\n03:43.177 --> 04:05.775\n因為民眾的抗爭那我想請問一下後來民眾的抗爭之後我們也當時我們才發現原來鄭市長原先也是不同意的那後來也因為經濟部要求後來鄭市長也說那你發推薦函我再允許他入園那署長這部分你應該知道吧\n\n04:07.213 --> 04:23.352\n那後來因為民眾抗爭又取消了這個推薦函那這部分應該也了解吧那我請問一下那當初這三家廠商入園之後我們跟廠商有沒有信賴保護原則\n\n04:26.243 --> 04:53.770\n我請這個署長回答一下我跟委員報告齁當初是基於剛才講的再生能源還有循環經濟沒關係我意思是說當初因為經濟部推薦嘛我們正式的同意他入園那這裡面有沒有信賴保護原則經濟部推薦案只是純粹的一個建議那整個裡面也會議區也做得很清楚還是要回歸到桃園市政府的所有的條例去處理所以就是\n\n04:54.960 --> 05:20.624\n桃園市政府政事長有講他是依經濟部的推薦函才同意這三家廠商入園那所以現在我們經濟部撤銷這個推薦函那市府也依我們經濟部撤銷這個推薦函之後也取消他入園但是現在這三家廠商已經對桃園市政府提告不知道我們經濟部知不知道這個事情\n\n05:21.204 --> 05:45.959\n那是提那個訴願對提訴願嘛就是訴訟嘛所以這個當初就是有信賴保護原則所以他才提出訴願對不對各位委員報告我們那個建議函在所有的入園許可中不是必備要件完全是回到桃園市政府當時的所謂的圖管那個入園的相關的許可去好那我請問一下你當初推薦他入園的原因是什麼\n\n05:46.857 --> 05:47.438\n臺灣市政府垃圾處理量\n\n06:01.857 --> 06:24.578\n好那重點我請問一下處長我重點請問一下那現在因為經濟部當初推薦所以市府才讓他入園結果後來為什麼經濟部又取消那市府當初有講我依經濟部的推薦我才同意他入園所以後來經濟部取消這個推薦函表示這個推薦已經不復存在所以後來\n\n06:25.279 --> 06:49.614\n市府一推薦欄的取消所以也取消他入園但是後來廠商提出這個訴願那我想請問這個部分難道經濟部不用負責全部由桃園市政府來承擔嗎我跟委員報告剛剛我也特別提到這個只是一個建議那我們那個會議記錄寫得非常清楚所有一切還是要回到桃園市政府的圖管條例\n\n06:50.675 --> 07:07.972\n好那我今天講重點當初依經濟部的推薦經濟部上級單位專業的推薦市府也特別有講他是依我們經濟部的推薦他才同意入園這我們在資料講得很清楚那後來你們主動\n\n07:08.613 --> 07:17.077\n收回這個推薦表示這個推薦的原因已經不復存在所以我認為這邊簡單兩點建議我是認為民眾已經抗爭而且其實SRF署長從頭到尾根本沒有辦法大聲說他是綠能其實他根本就是垃圾焚化爐你去看看這個排放標準根本就是焚化爐所以我這邊建議\n\n07:32.165 --> 07:54.979\n如果真的要處理的話我建議經濟部撤銷這個再生能源的發電設備許可還有撤銷這個廠商再生發電能源的准購合約這才能夠真正為民眾解決問題不應該當初經濟部下指導期現在把所有要國賠的事情通通推給桃園市政府我覺得這個經濟部是不負責任的\n\n07:57.995 --> 08:23.733\n報告委員這個再生能源是沒有問題的但是他不是綠能對啊我就講重點就不是綠能所以現在民眾就反彈啊當初講SRF聽起來很高科技結果根本就是垃圾焚化爐你看看那個標準燒廢輪胎燒PVC管燒金屬建材物燒出來的東西怎麼可能是綠能所以這部分我今天講的重點真的要處理就像我剛剛講的那兩樣再生能源\n\n08:25.974 --> 08:42.128\n的許可還有再生能源發電的賭購合約真正取消才能為民眾解決真的問題不應該讓桃園市政府單方面去面對廠商國賠的問題報告委員這個是再生能源沒有錯這是不是綠能就是你剛才所說的不是綠能\n\n08:42.828 --> 08:43.168\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.151,"end":0.171,"text":"請國務部長"},{"start":25.127,"end":36.393,"text":"郭部長您好 委員好我想請問一下 郭部長你這個對我們這個經濟部的方面應該是很專業我想請問一下 那這SIF你知道這是什麼東西嗎 不知道"},{"start":40.067,"end":53.468,"text":"那SRF它是現在最新的叫做固體再生燃料那是不是那個那可能請署長來幫忙回答一下那我請問一下SRF的部分我們這邊認定它是綠能嗎"},{"start":57.625,"end":76.832,"text":"呃,SRF要看它的廢棄物的來源,那廢棄物的來源如果包含石化的話,它就沒有辦法被認定為是綠能。那台灣的SRF的標準可以算綠能嗎?對,這個還是要看它的這個SRF的組成的成分,如果它是來自農業資材,這些當然可以被認定為是綠能,還要看它的組成。"},{"start":78.633,"end":90.053,"text":"如果像我們臺灣的SRF它並沒有特別限定它裡面有包含廢輪胎、PVC管還有一些塑料、金屬材料那這些燃燒出來的部分的東西它算是綠能嗎?"},{"start":91.755,"end":112.469,"text":"呃這個部分就要看他的還是要還是要看他的這些燒出來的東西廢輪胎燒出來可以算綠能嗎廢輪胎如果他就是石化的話如果是橡膠當然他就不能被歸納為是綠能的部分但是我們講說用廢棄物製成燃料再發電這目前在我們的再生條例裡面這個是認定為再生能源但是他不是綠能"},{"start":113.45,"end":127.228,"text":"好 所以基本上臺灣的SRF其他的標準嚴格來講算起來不能算是綠能只能算是再生能源嗎還是要看它的成分啦我跟委員報告那有碳排可以算綠能嗎"},{"start":128.817,"end":144.408,"text":"就是說它如果是裡面有包含石化原料的話就不算是綠能嘛但是所以我臺灣的排放標準其實就是包含這些所以嚴格來講它有這些東西燒出來就不能算是綠能那我想請問一下那我們針對我們109年的時候我們經濟部長那時候王美花部長"},{"start":148.911,"end":170.086,"text":"他有當時有跟我們那時候的桃園市長鄭文燦市長好針對桃園有3家SRF廠商入園這部分署長應該知道吧這3家就是台灣地方可寧會跟麗江3家廠嗎是這個知道好那針對這3家廠後來因為民眾說沒有環評沒有開公聽會後來"},{"start":176.854,"end":198.754,"text":"民眾就開始抗爭那我們去了解以後那其實在107年開始的時候我們經發級專業主管單位都反對這三家SRF廠入園然後後來也針對特別也針對氣電工生的部分他們也很明確說氣電工生只能天然氣所以也就是說這SRF廠的發電廠"},{"start":201.516,"end":201.876,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":223.177,"end":245.775,"text":"因為民眾的抗爭那我想請問一下後來民眾的抗爭之後我們也當時我們才發現原來鄭市長原先也是不同意的那後來也因為經濟部要求後來鄭市長也說那你發推薦函我再允許他入園那署長這部分你應該知道吧"},{"start":247.213,"end":263.352,"text":"那後來因為民眾抗爭又取消了這個推薦函那這部分應該也了解吧那我請問一下那當初這三家廠商入園之後我們跟廠商有沒有信賴保護原則"},{"start":266.243,"end":293.77,"text":"我請這個 署長回答一下我跟委員報告齁 當初是基於 剛才講的再生能源還有循環經濟沒關係我意思是說 當初因為經濟部推薦嘛 我們正式的同意他入園那這裡面有沒有信賴保護原則經濟部推薦案只是純粹的一個建議 那整個 裡面也會議區也做得很清楚還是要回歸到桃園市政府的所有的條例去處理所以就是"},{"start":294.96,"end":320.624,"text":"桃園市政府政事長有講他是依經濟部的推薦函才同意這三家廠商入園那所以現在我們經濟部撤銷這個推薦函那市府也依我們經濟部撤銷這個推薦函之後也取消他入園但是現在這三家廠商已經對桃園市政府提告不知道我們經濟部知不知道這個事情"},{"start":321.204,"end":345.959,"text":"那是提那個訴願對提訴願嘛就是訴訟嘛所以這個當初就是有信賴保護原則所以他才提出訴願對不對各位委員報告我們那個建議函在所有的入園許可中不是必備要件完全是回到桃園市政府當時的所謂的圖管那個入園的相關的許可去好那我請問一下你當初推薦他入園的原因是什麼"},{"start":346.857,"end":347.438,"text":"臺灣市政府垃圾處理量"},{"start":361.857,"end":384.578,"text":"好 那重點我請問一下 處長我重點請問一下那現在因為經濟部當初推薦所以市府才讓他入園結果後來為什麼經濟部又取消那市府當初有講我依經濟部的推薦我才同意他入園所以後來經濟部取消這個推薦函表示這個推薦已經不復存在所以後來"},{"start":385.279,"end":409.614,"text":"市府一推薦欄的取消所以也取消他入園但是後來廠商提出這個訴願那我想請問這個部分難道經濟部不用負責全部由桃園市政府來承擔嗎我跟委員報告剛剛我也特別提到這個只是一個建議那我們那個會議記錄寫得非常清楚所有一切還是要回到桃園市政府的圖管條例"},{"start":410.675,"end":427.972,"text":"好 那我今天講重點當初依經濟部的推薦經濟部上級單位專業的推薦市府也特別有講他是依我們經濟部的推薦他才同意入園這我們在資料講得很清楚那後來你們主動"},{"start":428.613,"end":437.077,"text":"收回這個推薦表示這個推薦的原因已經不復存在所以我認為這邊簡單兩點建議我是認為民眾已經抗爭而且其實SRF署長從頭到尾根本沒有辦法大聲說他是綠能其實他根本就是垃圾焚化爐你去看看這個排放標準根本就是焚化爐所以我這邊建議"},{"start":452.165,"end":474.979,"text":"如果真的要處理的話我建議經濟部撤銷這個再生能源的發電設備許可還有撤銷這個廠商再生發電能源的准購合約這才能夠真正為民眾解決問題不應該當初經濟部下指導期現在把所有要國賠的事情通通推給桃園市政府我覺得這個經濟部是不負責任的"},{"start":477.995,"end":503.733,"text":"報告委員這個再生能源是沒有問題的但是他不是綠能對啊我就講重點就不是綠能所以現在民眾就反彈啊當初講SRF聽起來很高科技結果根本就是垃圾焚化爐你看看那個標準燒廢輪胎燒PVC管燒金屬建材物燒出來的東西怎麼可能是綠能所以這部分我今天講的重點真的要處理就像我剛剛講的那兩樣再生能源"},{"start":505.974,"end":522.128,"text":"的許可還有再生能源發電的賭購合約真正取消才能為民眾解決真的問題不應該讓桃園市政府單方面去面對廠商國賠的問題報告委員這個是再生能源沒有錯這是不是綠能就是你剛才所說的不是綠能"},{"start":522.828,"end":523.168,"text":"主席"}]}}}}