{"id":153662,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153662","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/18e54f584c581c984f744328b45c8210a6cabf0dc0d1a8b73f1f9ccee7aa016b7439805f15628b065ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡易餘","委員發言時間":"12:35:24 - 12:45:40","影片長度":"00:10:16","會議時間":"2024-06-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-05","start_time":"2024-06-05T12:35:24+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-05T12:45:40+08:00","duration":616,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-15"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":986,"blocks":[["蔡委員易餘：（12時35分）謝謝召委，是不是有請郭部長？"],["主席：請郭部長。"],["蔡委員易餘：部長好。剛剛王委員講好多，可是我相信在你的心目中，因為你對嘉義很熟，所以我不用講那麼多夜市、土地跟水，我們嘉義的優勢就是有一個郭部長，我們就夠了，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員，謝謝。"],["蔡委員易餘：我們部長都在嘉義，像是民雄跟鹿草都有。我想要跟部長聊一下，我們從最近新聞可以看到整個半導體的產業大概是在臺灣蓬勃發展，我們大家看到從黃仁勳的NVIDIA到整個台積電，半導體真的是護國神山，而且是越來越強，把臺灣整個打到國際去。但是我們在注重台積電的先進製程的時候，我們還是回過頭去，因為半導體除了先進製程，還有所謂成熟製程，成熟製程包括車用晶片，包括現在傳統的一些還不到AI領域，但也是很重要，但是可以看出在這個成熟製程的整個市場上，中國非常的積極，他們最近又通過了要再加碼投資成熟製程，投資規格高達了3,440億，對於中國這樣的加碼投資，我們臺灣的因應之道是什麼？"],["郭部長智輝：我們成熟製程的業者來講其實都還是具有競爭力，中國現在成熟製程大概都是在40奈米，臺灣現在成熟製程都在20到28奈米，其實在generation上面還是有一些區隔。中國的40奈米影響的其實只有他們自己，只有中國國內的這些廠商，今年開出大概二十幾個Fab，但是都是成熟製程。其實臺灣早就知道了，所以臺灣就是往前一直在找台積電大概是10奈米以下的先進製程。但是12奈米、14奈米到20奈米、28奈米，大概是臺灣現在其他的……"],["蔡委員易餘：部長，就是這一塊，因為成熟製程，我們知道在疫情期間缺少車用晶片，你看晶片現在已經變成火車頭產業了，因為沒有晶片，後來整個汽車製造業全部大遲延，全部沒辦法交車，就是少了車用晶片。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：但是我們在成熟製程的這一塊，如果中國這樣不斷的加碼投資，然後他們到最後就會變成低價，他們會用價格戰，然後就會像過去在做太陽能零組件，或是在做過去一些科技產品的時候，他們會用所謂的低價、紅海策略，然後來打壓全世界的市占率，甚至我們臺灣成熟製程的市占率。針對這一塊，美國也有跳出來說會針對中國的這種攻擊性投資，他們已經開始在focus，而且甚至都要去做中國的相關成熟製程的追蹤，那日後會不會演變成美國對中國的貿易戰？我們不知道，但是我們臺灣怎麼因應這一塊呢？"],["郭部長智輝：跟委員報告，我想成熟的製程，基本上在商業上面運轉的時候還是會考慮它的良率，那中國，我想在成熟的製程上，它目前的良率還沒有那麼好，所以短暫的這一、兩年內，我們還看不出對臺灣的廠商有什麼太大的威脅。但是在未來，當它的良率提高以後，可能就會有一些威脅，不過這一部分臺灣的廠商自己都非常清楚，所以他們一定會往更先進的製程去移動。對我們來講，我想我們也會讓臺灣的IC設計業者，大家儘量朝先進製程去努力，臺灣大部分的晶片業者都是在做代工的部分，我們所謂「代工」是在替業者製造，那對我們來講，我其實對這一部分完全不擔心中國會有超越臺灣的部分，因為它的良率還是一直沒有做得很好。"],["蔡委員易餘：那所以我想，這一塊是我們臺灣的優勢，我們經濟部有這樣的義務，應該好好的去守護這整個產業。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：接著講到剛才部長說的代工，臺灣就是強在代工這一塊，甚至我們的代工也在逐步的發展。在代工的同時，我們能不能在半導體整個產業在蓬勃發展的時候，我們臺灣對於所謂半導體的材料或者是相關的一些設備，我們能不能進一步的來推動國產化？"],["郭部長智輝：有。在我們經濟部的計畫裡面，我們會在未來的4年對設備還有材料，我們希望有一些輔導跟獎勵，讓臺灣的國產化可以提高。"],["蔡委員易餘：就現階段而言，臺灣在這一塊的國產化是不高的……"],["郭部長智輝：對。"],["蔡委員易餘：在整個材料，尤其是材料，我們就半導體的材料還是進口居多，這中間包括從日本進口來的就不少，其中當然有涉及到，整個日本他們的材料純度是比臺灣好，所以臺灣相關的設備業者要怎麼迎頭趕上，這個也要由經濟部這邊來發揮。"],["郭部長智輝：是，謝謝，謝謝委員指教。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，所以講到設備，我還是要進一步的跟部長說，因為在我們嘉義鹿草的馬稠後產業園區，我們目前有規劃45公頃，這是在內閣改組前由鄭文燦前副院長一手去規劃，他們希望在馬稠後這邊拉出45公頃來作為半導體的材料以及設備的供應鏈，把設備、材料的供應鏈可以放在馬稠後。我想請教部長，這個計畫不會因為內閣改組改變吧？"],["郭部長智輝：應該沒有，這個持續進行中。"],["蔡委員易餘：持續進行嘛。如果按照原先的規劃，年底就要開始招商，部長，這部分在招商的整個的時程以及你們的信心度，現在是如何呢？"],["郭部長智輝：現在進行中，已經開始在規劃，馬上在……"],["蔡委員易餘：年底就要招商嘛？"],["郭部長智輝：就要開招商說明會。"],["蔡委員易餘：我們希望這一塊可以加速招商。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：延續剛才談的議題，包括黃仁勳說希望在臺灣設置研發基地。關於這個研發基地，事實上黃仁勳會不會考慮嘉義，我們不知道，但是有一個人會考慮嘉義，有一個人。部長，我不是在說你，這樣給你的壓力太大，我說的是梁見後，梁見後是我們嘉義竹崎人。梁見後過去真的有考慮要在嘉義投資設廠，在當時就翁章梁縣長給我的資訊，當時他考慮要在嘉義設廠，但是嘉義的工業區土地是不足的，所以導致最後這個投資沒有成行。這表示我們嘉義，因為如果以現在整個AI產業或是半導體產業的布局來看，從高雄、臺南甚至未來在嘉義，嘉義現階段台積電就已經有兩座CoWoS的封裝廠，未來還會推出所謂的材料跟設備的產業園區，所以事實上，就整個AI產業的布局，就我們嘉義，嘉南高一定是一個整體的園區，可是我們嘉義可能工業區的土地不足，所以部長，這部分你可以來協助我們，是不是要來推動馬稠後三期，第三期的馬稠後產業園區，好嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：好。可以。"],["蔡委員易餘：可以喔？"],["郭部長智輝：好。"],["蔡委員易餘：部長，現在這個我就要拜託你們，因為它是由嘉義縣自力開發，所以我會請嘉義縣政府趕快把相關的評估計畫送來，我希望經濟部協助我們嘉義縣，趕快把我們整個AI的布局先趕快讓它到位。好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，部長，那這個再拜託你。謝謝。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝蔡易餘委員的發言。接下來請伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":272,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-15","speakers":["邱議瑩","林岱樺","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張嘉郡","陳亭妃","謝衣鳯","呂玉玲","陳超明","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","洪申翰","牛煦庭","王鴻薇","陳培瑜","洪孟楷","王定宇","蔡易餘","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","賴士葆","賴惠員","羅智強","羅廷瑋","涂權吉","陳冠廷","李柏毅"],"page_start":199,"meetingDate":["2024-06-05"],"gazette_id":"1135601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135601_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1135601_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"153662","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153662","tool":"pyannote","id":"153662-pyannote"},"job_id":"yYgDLomc7mDmoso1","queued_at":"2024-06-05 14:12:52","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-05 14:12:52","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153662"},{"time":"2024-06-05 14:12:52","msg":"downloading 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00:00:15,579\n請蔡易餘委員發言好謝謝趙薇那我們是不是有請我們郭部長來請郭部長部長好\n\n2\n00:00:27,878 --> 00:00:27,898\n謝謝委員謝謝\n\n3\n00:00:50,178 --> 00:01:01,483\n我們補充一家餘,民雄跟鹿草都有我想要跟部長事實上也是聊一下,就是說\n\n4\n00:01:02,523 --> 00:01:27,162\n我們從最近的這個新聞可以看到整個半導體的這個產業大概是在台灣蓬勃發展那我們大家看到了從黃仁訊的NVIDIA到整個這個台積電大概把整個這個半導體這個是護國神山而且是越來越強把台灣整個打到國際去那但是我們在注重這一個\n\n5\n00:01:28,782 --> 00:01:54,550\n臺積電的這個先進製程的時候我們還是回過頭會去對於另外半導體除了先進製程還有所謂成熟製程那成熟製程有包括包括車用晶片包括我們現在傳統的一些一些比較還不到AI領域但是他也是很重要也是很重要但是可以看出說在這一個成熟製程的\n\n6\n00:01:57,074 --> 00:02:17,080\n這個整個這個市場上中國非常的積極他最近又通過了他要用他要投資中國這邊他最近又說他要再投資加碼投資整個成熟製程的一個這個投資的規格高達了這個3440億3440億所以中國這樣的一個加碼投資那我們台灣的因應知道了\n\n7\n00:02:27,628 --> 00:02:50,601\n我們成熟製程的業者來講其實都還是具有競爭力中國現在成熟製程大概都是在40奈米那台灣現在成熟都在20到28奈米這個其實在generation上面還是有一些區隔那中國的40奈米影響的其實只有他自己\n\n8\n00:02:51,596 --> 00:02:51,676\n臺積電10奈米\n\n9\n00:03:09,736 --> 00:03:15,839\n所以部長就是說這一塊因為成熟製程我們知道說在疫情期間因為缺少車用晶片所以你看它已經說晶片現在已經變成火車頭產業了\n\n10\n00:03:34,207 --> 00:03:52,802\n因為沒有晶片,所以後來整個汽車製造業全部大遲延,全部沒辦法購車,就是少了車用晶片。但是我們在成熟製程的這一塊,如果中國這樣不斷地加碼投資,然後他們事實上到最後就會變成說低價。\n\n11\n00:03:53,983 --> 00:04:14,989\n用價格戰然後就會像過去在做太陽能的零組件啊在做我們一些過去的一些科技產品的時候他們會用所謂的這樣的一個低價鴻海的一個策略然後來打壓這個全世界的一個市佔率甚至我們台灣成熟市場的市佔率那我們在這一塊美國\n\n12\n00:04:15,669 --> 00:04:15,929\n美國對中國的貿易戰\n\n13\n00:04:34,019 --> 00:04:51,708\n跟委員報告這個我想成熟的製程基本上還是會在商業上面運轉的時候會考慮他的良率那中國我想在這個成熟製程他目前的良率還沒有那麼好所以短暫的這一兩年我們還看不出對台灣的廠商有什麼太大的威脅\n\n14\n00:04:52,967 --> 00:05:18,505\n但是在未來當它良率上來了以後可能就會有一些業績不過這一部分台灣的廠商自己都非常清楚所以他們一定會往這個更先進的製程去移動他們會往先進的製程移動那對我們來講我想我們也會這個讓台灣的這個IC設計業者就是說大家盡量朝這個先進製程大家去努力\n\n15\n00:05:20,126 --> 00:05:40,180\n臺灣大部分這些晶片業者都是在做代工我們所謂代工是在替他們製造替這個業者製造對我們來講我其實對這一部分完全不擔心說中國會有來超越臺灣的部分因為他的良率還是一直沒有做很好\n\n16\n00:05:40,580 --> 00:05:56,810\n好那所以我想這一塊是我們台灣的優勢我們經濟部是有這樣的義務應該要好好的去守護整個這樣的一個產業那好那就講到了剛才部長講的代工嘛台灣就是強在這個代工的整個甚至我們的代工也逐步發展\n\n17\n00:05:57,350 --> 00:06:15,873\n那在代工的這個同時我們能不能在半導體整個產業在蓬勃發展的時候我們台灣對於所謂半導體的材料或者是相關的一些設備我們能不能進一步的來推動國產化有在我們經濟部的計畫裡面我們會在這個未來的這個4年對設備還有材料我們希望有一些這個\n\n18\n00:06:25,526 --> 00:06:33,359\n福島跟這些獎勵讓台灣的國產化可以提高就現階段而言台灣的這一塊的國產化是不高的\n\n19\n00:06:34,419 --> 00:07:00,917\n這是整個材料尤其是材料我們就半導體的材料還是進口居多這中間包括從日本進口來就不少這中間當然有涉及到說整個日本他們對於材料的純度是比台灣好所以台灣的相關的設備業者要怎麼迎頭趕上這個也要由經濟部這邊來發揮是謝謝這個委員指教好那所以講到了這個設備\n\n20\n00:07:03,158 --> 00:07:10,007\n還是要進一步的跟部長說因為在我們嘉義的鹿草這個馬籌後的一個產業園區我們目前有規劃45公頃這個是在那個改組前由鄭文燦前副院長\n\n21\n00:07:18,558 --> 00:07:18,758\n蔡易餘\n\n22\n00:07:38,911 --> 00:07:55,303\n應該沒有這個持續進行中持續進行嘛那如果按照原先的一個規劃是在年底就要開始招商那部長這部分在招商的整個的時程以及你們的信心度現在是如何的\n\n23\n00:07:55,843 --> 00:08:18,506\n現在進行中已經開始在規劃那馬上在這個年底就要招商嘛要開招商說明會要開招商說明會嘛那我們希望說這一塊可以加速招商是阿剛也要去說說還是延續啦就是包括現在黃仁勳所說的他希望在台灣有設置這一個研發的一個基地嘛\n\n24\n00:08:19,367 --> 00:08:40,766\n這個研發基地,我想事實上嘉義黃仁勳會不會考慮嘉義我們不知道,但是有一個人他會考慮嘉義,有一個人,我補充我不是說你,你這裡太大,梁建厚,梁建厚是我們嘉義族旗人,所以他過去\n\n25\n00:08:41,647 --> 00:08:59,159\n我們這個梁先生過去真的有考慮在嘉義要投資要設廠那在當時我就我們翁章良縣長給我的資訊在當時他要考慮在嘉義要設廠但是他們卻對於嘉義的工業區的土地是不足的\n\n26\n00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:28,564\n所以以那順座最豪氣的投資沒有成型所以表示說我們嘉義勒因為如果以整個現在整個AI產業是要半導體產業的一個布局從高雄台南甚至未來在嘉義那嘉義台積電已經有現階段就有兩廠的COAS的一個封裝廠那未來還會有所謂材料跟設備的一個產業的一個園區裡面出來所以我們嘉義勒事實上就整個AI產業的布局咱嘉義是整個\n\n27\n00:09:29,304 --> 00:09:29,504\n：蔡易餘\n\n28\n00:09:47,785 --> 00:09:48,145\n蔡易餘委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n669\t15579\t請蔡易餘委員發言好謝謝趙薇那我們是不是有請我們郭部長來請郭部長部長好\n27878\t27898\t謝謝委員 謝謝\n50178\t61483\t我們補充一家餘,民雄跟鹿草都有我想要跟部長事實上也是聊一下,就是說\n62523\t87162\t我們從最近的這個新聞可以看到整個半導體的這個產業大概是在台灣蓬勃發展那我們大家看到了從黃仁訊的NVIDIA到整個這個台積電大概把整個這個半導體這個是護國神山而且是越來越強把台灣整個打到國際去那但是我們在注重這一個\n88782\t114550\t臺積電的這個先進製程的時候我們還是回過頭會去對於另外半導體除了先進製程還有所謂成熟製程那成熟製程有包括包括車用晶片包括我們現在傳統的一些一些比較還不到AI領域但是他也是很重要也是很重要但是可以看出說在這一個成熟製程的\n117074\t137080\t這個整個這個市場上中國非常的積極他最近又通過了他要用他要投資中國這邊他最近又說他要再投資加碼投資整個成熟製程的一個這個投資的規格高達了這個3440億3440億所以中國這樣的一個加碼投資那我們台灣的因應知道了\n147628\t170601\t我們成熟製程的業者來講其實都還是具有競爭力中國現在成熟製程大概都是在40奈米那台灣現在成熟都在20到28奈米這個其實在generation上面還是有一些區隔那中國的40奈米影響的其實只有他自己\n171596\t171676\t臺積電10奈米\n189736\t195839\t所以部長就是說這一塊因為成熟製程我們知道說在疫情期間因為缺少車用晶片所以你看它已經說晶片現在已經變成火車頭產業了\n214207\t232802\t因為沒有晶片,所以後來整個汽車製造業全部大遲延,全部沒辦法購車,就是少了車用晶片。但是我們在成熟製程的這一塊,如果中國這樣不斷地加碼投資,然後他們事實上到最後就會變成說低價。\n233983\t254989\t用價格戰然後就會像過去在做太陽能的零組件啊在做我們一些過去的一些科技產品的時候他們會用所謂的這樣的一個低價鴻海的一個策略然後來打壓這個全世界的一個市佔率甚至我們台灣成熟市場的市佔率那我們在這一塊美國\n255669\t255929\t美國對中國的貿易戰\n274019\t291708\t跟委員報告這個我想成熟的製程基本上還是會在商業上面運轉的時候會考慮他的良率那中國我想在這個成熟製程他目前的良率還沒有那麼好所以短暫的這一兩年我們還看不出對台灣的廠商有什麼太大的威脅\n292967\t318505\t但是在未來當它良率上來了以後可能就會有一些業績不過這一部分台灣的廠商自己都非常清楚所以他們一定會往這個更先進的製程去移動他們會往先進的製程移動那對我們來講我想我們也會這個讓台灣的這個IC設計業者就是說大家盡量朝這個先進製程大家去努力\n320126\t340180\t臺灣大部分這些晶片業者都是在做代工我們所謂代工是在替他們製造替這個業者製造對我們來講我其實對這一部分完全不擔心說中國會有來超越臺灣的部分因為他的良率還是一直沒有做很好\n340580\t356810\t好那所以我想這一塊是我們台灣的優勢我們經濟部是有這樣的義務應該要好好的去守護整個這樣的一個產業那好那就講到了剛才部長講的代工嘛台灣就是強在這個代工的整個甚至我們的代工也逐步發展\n357350\t375873\t那在代工的這個同時我們能不能在半導體整個產業在蓬勃發展的時候我們台灣對於所謂半導體的材料或者是相關的一些設備我們能不能進一步的來推動國產化有在我們經濟部的計畫裡面我們會在這個未來的這個4年對設備還有材料我們希望有一些這個\n385526\t393359\t福島跟這些獎勵讓台灣的國產化可以提高就現階段而言台灣的這一塊的國產化是不高的\n394419\t420917\t這是整個材料尤其是材料我們就半導體的材料還是進口居多這中間包括從日本進口來就不少這中間當然有涉及到說整個日本他們對於材料的純度是比台灣好所以台灣的相關的設備業者要怎麼迎頭趕上這個也要由經濟部這邊來發揮是謝謝這個委員指教好那所以講到了這個設備\n423158\t430007\t還是要進一步的跟部長說因為在我們嘉義的鹿草這個馬籌後的一個產業園區我們目前有規劃45公頃這個是在那個改組前由鄭文燦前副院長\n438558\t438758\t蔡易餘\n458911\t475303\t應該沒有 這個持續進行中 持續進行嘛那如果按照原先的一個規劃是在年底就要開始招商那部長這部分在招商的整個的時程以及你們的信心度現在是如何的\n475843\t498506\t現在進行中已經開始在規劃那馬上在這個年底就要招商嘛要開招商說明會要開招商說明會嘛那我們希望說這一塊可以加速招商是阿剛也要去說說還是延續啦就是包括現在黃仁勳所說的他希望在台灣有設置這一個研發的一個基地嘛\n499367\t520766\t這個研發基地,我想事實上嘉義黃仁勳會不會考慮嘉義我們不知道,但是有一個人他會考慮嘉義,有一個人,我補充我不是說你,你這裡太大,梁建厚,梁建厚是我們嘉義族旗人,所以他過去\n521647\t539159\t我們這個梁先生過去真的有考慮在嘉義要投資要設廠那在當時我就我們翁章良縣長給我的資訊在當時他要考慮在嘉義要設廠但是他們卻對於嘉義的工業區的土地是不足的\n540080\t568564\t所以以那順座最豪氣的投資沒有成型所以表示說我們嘉義勒因為如果以整個現在整個AI產業是要半導體產業的一個布局從高雄台南甚至未來在嘉義那嘉義台積電已經有現階段就有兩廠的COAS的一個封裝廠那未來還會有所謂材料跟設備的一個產業的一個園區裡面出來所以我們嘉義勒事實上就整個AI產業的布局咱嘉義是整個\n569304\t569504\t：蔡易餘\n587785\t588145\t蔡易餘委員\n","txt":"請蔡易餘委員發言好謝謝趙薇那我們是不是有請我們郭部長來請郭部長部長好\n謝謝委員 謝謝\n我們補充一家餘,民雄跟鹿草都有我想要跟部長事實上也是聊一下,就是說\n我們從最近的這個新聞可以看到整個半導體的這個產業大概是在台灣蓬勃發展那我們大家看到了從黃仁訊的NVIDIA到整個這個台積電大概把整個這個半導體這個是護國神山而且是越來越強把台灣整個打到國際去那但是我們在注重這一個\n臺積電的這個先進製程的時候我們還是回過頭會去對於另外半導體除了先進製程還有所謂成熟製程那成熟製程有包括包括車用晶片包括我們現在傳統的一些一些比較還不到AI領域但是他也是很重要也是很重要但是可以看出說在這一個成熟製程的\n這個整個這個市場上中國非常的積極他最近又通過了他要用他要投資中國這邊他最近又說他要再投資加碼投資整個成熟製程的一個這個投資的規格高達了這個3440億3440億所以中國這樣的一個加碼投資那我們台灣的因應知道了\n我們成熟製程的業者來講其實都還是具有競爭力中國現在成熟製程大概都是在40奈米那台灣現在成熟都在20到28奈米這個其實在generation上面還是有一些區隔那中國的40奈米影響的其實只有他自己\n臺積電10奈米\n所以部長就是說這一塊因為成熟製程我們知道說在疫情期間因為缺少車用晶片所以你看它已經說晶片現在已經變成火車頭產業了\n因為沒有晶片,所以後來整個汽車製造業全部大遲延,全部沒辦法購車,就是少了車用晶片。但是我們在成熟製程的這一塊,如果中國這樣不斷地加碼投資,然後他們事實上到最後就會變成說低價。\n用價格戰然後就會像過去在做太陽能的零組件啊在做我們一些過去的一些科技產品的時候他們會用所謂的這樣的一個低價鴻海的一個策略然後來打壓這個全世界的一個市佔率甚至我們台灣成熟市場的市佔率那我們在這一塊美國\n美國對中國的貿易戰\n跟委員報告這個我想成熟的製程基本上還是會在商業上面運轉的時候會考慮他的良率那中國我想在這個成熟製程他目前的良率還沒有那麼好所以短暫的這一兩年我們還看不出對台灣的廠商有什麼太大的威脅\n但是在未來當它良率上來了以後可能就會有一些業績不過這一部分台灣的廠商自己都非常清楚所以他們一定會往這個更先進的製程去移動他們會往先進的製程移動那對我們來講我想我們也會這個讓台灣的這個IC設計業者就是說大家盡量朝這個先進製程大家去努力\n臺灣大部分這些晶片業者都是在做代工我們所謂代工是在替他們製造替這個業者製造對我們來講我其實對這一部分完全不擔心說中國會有來超越臺灣的部分因為他的良率還是一直沒有做很好\n好那所以我想這一塊是我們台灣的優勢我們經濟部是有這樣的義務應該要好好的去守護整個這樣的一個產業那好那就講到了剛才部長講的代工嘛台灣就是強在這個代工的整個甚至我們的代工也逐步發展\n那在代工的這個同時我們能不能在半導體整個產業在蓬勃發展的時候我們台灣對於所謂半導體的材料或者是相關的一些設備我們能不能進一步的來推動國產化有在我們經濟部的計畫裡面我們會在這個未來的這個4年對設備還有材料我們希望有一些這個\n福島跟這些獎勵讓台灣的國產化可以提高就現階段而言台灣的這一塊的國產化是不高的\n這是整個材料尤其是材料我們就半導體的材料還是進口居多這中間包括從日本進口來就不少這中間當然有涉及到說整個日本他們對於材料的純度是比台灣好所以台灣的相關的設備業者要怎麼迎頭趕上這個也要由經濟部這邊來發揮是謝謝這個委員指教好那所以講到了這個設備\n還是要進一步的跟部長說因為在我們嘉義的鹿草這個馬籌後的一個產業園區我們目前有規劃45公頃這個是在那個改組前由鄭文燦前副院長\n蔡易餘\n應該沒有 這個持續進行中 持續進行嘛那如果按照原先的一個規劃是在年底就要開始招商那部長這部分在招商的整個的時程以及你們的信心度現在是如何的\n現在進行中已經開始在規劃那馬上在這個年底就要招商嘛要開招商說明會要開招商說明會嘛那我們希望說這一塊可以加速招商是阿剛也要去說說還是延續啦就是包括現在黃仁勳所說的他希望在台灣有設置這一個研發的一個基地嘛\n這個研發基地,我想事實上嘉義黃仁勳會不會考慮嘉義我們不知道,但是有一個人他會考慮嘉義,有一個人,我補充我不是說你,你這裡太大,梁建厚,梁建厚是我們嘉義族旗人,所以他過去\n我們這個梁先生過去真的有考慮在嘉義要投資要設廠那在當時我就我們翁章良縣長給我的資訊在當時他要考慮在嘉義要設廠但是他們卻對於嘉義的工業區的土地是不足的\n所以以那順座最豪氣的投資沒有成型所以表示說我們嘉義勒因為如果以整個現在整個AI產業是要半導體產業的一個布局從高雄台南甚至未來在嘉義那嘉義台積電已經有現階段就有兩廠的COAS的一個封裝廠那未來還會有所謂材料跟設備的一個產業的一個園區裡面出來所以我們嘉義勒事實上就整個AI產業的布局咱嘉義是整個\n：蔡易餘\n蔡易餘委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.669 --> 00:15.579\n請蔡易餘委員發言好謝謝趙薇那我們是不是有請我們郭部長來請郭部長部長好\n\n00:27.878 --> 00:27.898\n謝謝委員謝謝\n\n00:50.178 --> 01:01.483\n我們補充一家餘,民雄跟鹿草都有我想要跟部長事實上也是聊一下,就是說\n\n01:02.523 --> 01:27.162\n我們從最近的這個新聞可以看到整個半導體的這個產業大概是在台灣蓬勃發展那我們大家看到了從黃仁訊的NVIDIA到整個這個台積電大概把整個這個半導體這個是護國神山而且是越來越強把台灣整個打到國際去那但是我們在注重這一個\n\n01:28.782 --> 01:54.550\n臺積電的這個先進製程的時候我們還是回過頭會去對於另外半導體除了先進製程還有所謂成熟製程那成熟製程有包括包括車用晶片包括我們現在傳統的一些一些比較還不到AI領域但是他也是很重要也是很重要但是可以看出說在這一個成熟製程的\n\n01:57.074 --> 02:17.080\n這個整個這個市場上中國非常的積極他最近又通過了他要用他要投資中國這邊他最近又說他要再投資加碼投資整個成熟製程的一個這個投資的規格高達了這個3440億3440億所以中國這樣的一個加碼投資那我們台灣的因應知道了\n\n02:27.628 --> 02:50.601\n我們成熟製程的業者來講其實都還是具有競爭力中國現在成熟製程大概都是在40奈米那台灣現在成熟都在20到28奈米這個其實在generation上面還是有一些區隔那中國的40奈米影響的其實只有他自己\n\n02:51.596 --> 02:51.676\n臺積電10奈米\n\n03:09.736 --> 03:15.839\n所以部長就是說這一塊因為成熟製程我們知道說在疫情期間因為缺少車用晶片所以你看它已經說晶片現在已經變成火車頭產業了\n\n03:34.207 --> 03:52.802\n因為沒有晶片,所以後來整個汽車製造業全部大遲延,全部沒辦法購車,就是少了車用晶片。但是我們在成熟製程的這一塊,如果中國這樣不斷地加碼投資,然後他們事實上到最後就會變成說低價。\n\n03:53.983 --> 04:14.989\n用價格戰然後就會像過去在做太陽能的零組件啊在做我們一些過去的一些科技產品的時候他們會用所謂的這樣的一個低價鴻海的一個策略然後來打壓這個全世界的一個市佔率甚至我們台灣成熟市場的市佔率那我們在這一塊美國\n\n04:15.669 --> 04:15.929\n美國對中國的貿易戰\n\n04:34.019 --> 04:51.708\n跟委員報告這個我想成熟的製程基本上還是會在商業上面運轉的時候會考慮他的良率那中國我想在這個成熟製程他目前的良率還沒有那麼好所以短暫的這一兩年我們還看不出對台灣的廠商有什麼太大的威脅\n\n04:52.967 --> 05:18.505\n但是在未來當它良率上來了以後可能就會有一些業績不過這一部分台灣的廠商自己都非常清楚所以他們一定會往這個更先進的製程去移動他們會往先進的製程移動那對我們來講我想我們也會這個讓台灣的這個IC設計業者就是說大家盡量朝這個先進製程大家去努力\n\n05:20.126 --> 05:40.180\n臺灣大部分這些晶片業者都是在做代工我們所謂代工是在替他們製造替這個業者製造對我們來講我其實對這一部分完全不擔心說中國會有來超越臺灣的部分因為他的良率還是一直沒有做很好\n\n05:40.580 --> 05:56.810\n好那所以我想這一塊是我們台灣的優勢我們經濟部是有這樣的義務應該要好好的去守護整個這樣的一個產業那好那就講到了剛才部長講的代工嘛台灣就是強在這個代工的整個甚至我們的代工也逐步發展\n\n05:57.350 --> 06:15.873\n那在代工的這個同時我們能不能在半導體整個產業在蓬勃發展的時候我們台灣對於所謂半導體的材料或者是相關的一些設備我們能不能進一步的來推動國產化有在我們經濟部的計畫裡面我們會在這個未來的這個4年對設備還有材料我們希望有一些這個\n\n06:25.526 --> 06:33.359\n福島跟這些獎勵讓台灣的國產化可以提高就現階段而言台灣的這一塊的國產化是不高的\n\n06:34.419 --> 07:00.917\n這是整個材料尤其是材料我們就半導體的材料還是進口居多這中間包括從日本進口來就不少這中間當然有涉及到說整個日本他們對於材料的純度是比台灣好所以台灣的相關的設備業者要怎麼迎頭趕上這個也要由經濟部這邊來發揮是謝謝這個委員指教好那所以講到了這個設備\n\n07:03.158 --> 07:10.007\n還是要進一步的跟部長說因為在我們嘉義的鹿草這個馬籌後的一個產業園區我們目前有規劃45公頃這個是在那個改組前由鄭文燦前副院長\n\n07:18.558 --> 07:18.758\n蔡易餘\n\n07:38.911 --> 07:55.303\n應該沒有這個持續進行中持續進行嘛那如果按照原先的一個規劃是在年底就要開始招商那部長這部分在招商的整個的時程以及你們的信心度現在是如何的\n\n07:55.843 --> 08:18.506\n現在進行中已經開始在規劃那馬上在這個年底就要招商嘛要開招商說明會要開招商說明會嘛那我們希望說這一塊可以加速招商是阿剛也要去說說還是延續啦就是包括現在黃仁勳所說的他希望在台灣有設置這一個研發的一個基地嘛\n\n08:19.367 --> 08:40.766\n這個研發基地,我想事實上嘉義黃仁勳會不會考慮嘉義我們不知道,但是有一個人他會考慮嘉義,有一個人,我補充我不是說你,你這裡太大,梁建厚,梁建厚是我們嘉義族旗人,所以他過去\n\n08:41.647 --> 08:59.159\n我們這個梁先生過去真的有考慮在嘉義要投資要設廠那在當時我就我們翁章良縣長給我的資訊在當時他要考慮在嘉義要設廠但是他們卻對於嘉義的工業區的土地是不足的\n\n09:00.080 --> 09:28.564\n所以以那順座最豪氣的投資沒有成型所以表示說我們嘉義勒因為如果以整個現在整個AI產業是要半導體產業的一個布局從高雄台南甚至未來在嘉義那嘉義台積電已經有現階段就有兩廠的COAS的一個封裝廠那未來還會有所謂材料跟設備的一個產業的一個園區裡面出來所以我們嘉義勒事實上就整個AI產業的布局咱嘉義是整個\n\n09:29.304 --> 09:29.504\n：蔡易餘\n\n09:47.785 --> 09:48.145\n蔡易餘委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.669,"end":15.579,"text":"請蔡易餘委員發言好謝謝趙薇那我們是不是有請我們郭部長來請郭部長部長好"},{"start":27.878,"end":27.898,"text":"謝謝委員 謝謝"},{"start":50.178,"end":61.483,"text":"我們補充一家餘,民雄跟鹿草都有我想要跟部長事實上也是聊一下,就是說"},{"start":62.523,"end":87.162,"text":"我們從最近的這個新聞可以看到整個半導體的這個產業大概是在台灣蓬勃發展那我們大家看到了從黃仁訊的NVIDIA到整個這個台積電大概把整個這個半導體這個是護國神山而且是越來越強把台灣整個打到國際去那但是我們在注重這一個"},{"start":88.782,"end":114.55,"text":"臺積電的這個先進製程的時候我們還是回過頭會去對於另外半導體除了先進製程還有所謂成熟製程那成熟製程有包括包括車用晶片包括我們現在傳統的一些一些比較還不到AI領域但是他也是很重要也是很重要但是可以看出說在這一個成熟製程的"},{"start":117.074,"end":137.08,"text":"這個整個這個市場上中國非常的積極他最近又通過了他要用他要投資中國這邊他最近又說他要再投資加碼投資整個成熟製程的一個這個投資的規格高達了這個3440億3440億所以中國這樣的一個加碼投資那我們台灣的因應知道了"},{"start":147.628,"end":170.601,"text":"我們成熟製程的業者來講其實都還是具有競爭力中國現在成熟製程大概都是在40奈米那台灣現在成熟都在20到28奈米這個其實在generation上面還是有一些區隔那中國的40奈米影響的其實只有他自己"},{"start":171.596,"end":171.676,"text":"臺積電10奈米"},{"start":189.736,"end":195.839,"text":"所以部長就是說這一塊因為成熟製程我們知道說在疫情期間因為缺少車用晶片所以你看它已經說晶片現在已經變成火車頭產業了"},{"start":214.207,"end":232.802,"text":"因為沒有晶片,所以後來整個汽車製造業全部大遲延,全部沒辦法購車,就是少了車用晶片。但是我們在成熟製程的這一塊,如果中國這樣不斷地加碼投資,然後他們事實上到最後就會變成說低價。"},{"start":233.983,"end":254.989,"text":"用價格戰然後就會像過去在做太陽能的零組件啊在做我們一些過去的一些科技產品的時候他們會用所謂的這樣的一個低價鴻海的一個策略然後來打壓這個全世界的一個市佔率甚至我們台灣成熟市場的市佔率那我們在這一塊美國"},{"start":255.669,"end":255.929,"text":"美國對中國的貿易戰"},{"start":274.019,"end":291.708,"text":"跟委員報告這個我想成熟的製程基本上還是會在商業上面運轉的時候會考慮他的良率那中國我想在這個成熟製程他目前的良率還沒有那麼好所以短暫的這一兩年我們還看不出對台灣的廠商有什麼太大的威脅"},{"start":292.967,"end":318.505,"text":"但是在未來當它良率上來了以後可能就會有一些業績不過這一部分台灣的廠商自己都非常清楚所以他們一定會往這個更先進的製程去移動他們會往先進的製程移動那對我們來講我想我們也會這個讓台灣的這個IC設計業者就是說大家盡量朝這個先進製程大家去努力"},{"start":320.126,"end":340.18,"text":"臺灣大部分這些晶片業者都是在做代工我們所謂代工是在替他們製造替這個業者製造對我們來講我其實對這一部分完全不擔心說中國會有來超越臺灣的部分因為他的良率還是一直沒有做很好"},{"start":340.58,"end":356.81,"text":"好那所以我想這一塊是我們台灣的優勢我們經濟部是有這樣的義務應該要好好的去守護整個這樣的一個產業那好那就講到了剛才部長講的代工嘛台灣就是強在這個代工的整個甚至我們的代工也逐步發展"},{"start":357.35,"end":375.873,"text":"那在代工的這個同時我們能不能在半導體整個產業在蓬勃發展的時候我們台灣對於所謂半導體的材料或者是相關的一些設備我們能不能進一步的來推動國產化有在我們經濟部的計畫裡面我們會在這個未來的這個4年對設備還有材料我們希望有一些這個"},{"start":385.526,"end":393.359,"text":"福島跟這些獎勵讓台灣的國產化可以提高就現階段而言台灣的這一塊的國產化是不高的"},{"start":394.419,"end":420.917,"text":"這是整個材料尤其是材料我們就半導體的材料還是進口居多這中間包括從日本進口來就不少這中間當然有涉及到說整個日本他們對於材料的純度是比台灣好所以台灣的相關的設備業者要怎麼迎頭趕上這個也要由經濟部這邊來發揮是謝謝這個委員指教好那所以講到了這個設備"},{"start":423.158,"end":430.007,"text":"還是要進一步的跟部長說因為在我們嘉義的鹿草這個馬籌後的一個產業園區我們目前有規劃45公頃這個是在那個改組前由鄭文燦前副院長"},{"start":438.558,"end":438.758,"text":"蔡易餘"},{"start":458.911,"end":475.303,"text":"應該沒有 這個持續進行中 持續進行嘛那如果按照原先的一個規劃是在年底就要開始招商那部長這部分在招商的整個的時程以及你們的信心度現在是如何的"},{"start":475.843,"end":498.506,"text":"現在進行中已經開始在規劃那馬上在這個年底就要招商嘛要開招商說明會要開招商說明會嘛那我們希望說這一塊可以加速招商是阿剛也要去說說還是延續啦就是包括現在黃仁勳所說的他希望在台灣有設置這一個研發的一個基地嘛"},{"start":499.367,"end":520.766,"text":"這個研發基地,我想事實上嘉義黃仁勳會不會考慮嘉義我們不知道,但是有一個人他會考慮嘉義,有一個人,我補充我不是說你,你這裡太大,梁建厚,梁建厚是我們嘉義族旗人,所以他過去"},{"start":521.647,"end":539.159,"text":"我們這個梁先生過去真的有考慮在嘉義要投資要設廠那在當時我就我們翁章良縣長給我的資訊在當時他要考慮在嘉義要設廠但是他們卻對於嘉義的工業區的土地是不足的"},{"start":540.08,"end":568.564,"text":"所以以那順座最豪氣的投資沒有成型所以表示說我們嘉義勒因為如果以整個現在整個AI產業是要半導體產業的一個布局從高雄台南甚至未來在嘉義那嘉義台積電已經有現階段就有兩廠的COAS的一個封裝廠那未來還會有所謂材料跟設備的一個產業的一個園區裡面出來所以我們嘉義勒事實上就整個AI產業的布局咱嘉義是整個"},{"start":569.304,"end":569.504,"text":"：蔡易餘"},{"start":587.785,"end":588.145,"text":"蔡易餘委員"}]}}}}