{"id":153668,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153668","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0d7b1f4370c473d54a040b20e66f9cb99dbbe5275cafb4df3d3daa592b5b2cb03309862b0372d3b35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"09:17:13 - 09:30:34","影片長度":"00:13:21","會議時間":"2024-06-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請文化部部長李遠、教育部、原住民族委員會、客家委員會列席就「自信臺灣深根文化軟實力－『國家語言發展法』推動成效總檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【6月5日及6日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-06","start_time":"2024-06-06T09:17:13+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-06T09:30:34+08:00","duration":801,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-15"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":35,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（9時17分）主席謝謝，麻煩請文化部李部長以及教育部國教署署長。"],["主席：請彭署長和李部長，謝謝。"],["李部長遠：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：好。部長，我先請教一下，本席有看到從6月 8號開始，我們因應花蓮0403地震再加碼1,200元的文化幣。請教這個文化幣，因為本席看了半天，當然為花蓮復興、振興，這個是美意啊！所以現在是符合資格16歲到22歲的年輕朋友，從6月8號開始可以到花蓮去領取文化幣？"],["李部長遠：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：但有沒有限定要在花蓮使用？"],["江司長清松：報告委員，的確我們現在只要持有文化幣資格的人到花蓮去，在當地他才可以領到文化幣。"],["洪委員孟楷：可以領？"],["江司長清松：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是沒有限花蓮使用？"],["江司長清松：一定要限在花蓮使用。"],["洪委員孟楷：有嗎？"],["江司長清松：有。"],["洪委員孟楷：你們上面的規範沒有寫到限花蓮使用啊！你們上面的規範是說優惠方式是跟原有的文化幣合併使用，換言之，會讓外界以為你只要去領取完，就可以在全臺各縣市使用。說清楚！"],["江司長清松：是，這個我們會說清楚。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以就是限花蓮使用？"],["江司長清松：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以6月8號加碼的文化幣1,200元，在今年的 6月8號一直到年底，可以到花蓮領取並在花蓮使用？"],["江司長清松：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：就是要振興花蓮的文化、觀光發展，是不是？"],["江司長清松：對，文化產業。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，OK，謝謝。部長，這個是好事，我們一起努力讓各縣市……也讓花蓮的鄉親可以感受到我們相關部會的用意啦！","回過頭來，今天主題是國家語言發展法，其實從2019年通過之後到現在3、4年的時間，部長上任1個月左右，我想你應該也很瞭解，到底文化跟教育兩個衝突的部分，我們國家要怎麼樣去做推廣？在國家語言發展法裡面，定義當然很良善，本席也認同應該要鼓勵所有的語言，但目前為止，我們所訂定的國家語言發展法，到底國家語言有多少？"],["李部長遠：目前我們有7種。"],["洪委員孟楷：廣義的……"],["李部長遠：廣義的有7種。"],["洪委員孟楷：只有7種嗎？"],["李部長遠：譬如華語，大家最常講的華語，還有臺灣台語、臺灣客家語、臺灣原住民語，然後還有平埔族語、馬祖語，還有手語，就是我們在法律上面大致上把它分類，大概是這樣。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是一般來講，其實本土語言規定國小有52種，有閩南語、閩東語、臺灣手語、客語，客語還有不同的腔調，光腔調就可以分6種；原住民語，不同的族語還可以分到42種，更不要講國小還再加入新住民語，新住民語還有7種不同的新住民話，所以夯不啷噹加起來是59種。這樣子對於我們國家語文的發展來講，我們有那麼多推廣的資源嗎？因為本席特別看到我們的主管機關是文化部，但主管機關文化部其實只針對台語、馬祖語跟臺灣手語，這3個是你們主責的方向，是不是？"],["李部長遠：是，剛剛您講到我們在國家發展語言裡面，因為本來就有客委會還有原委會，他們各自負責自己的部分，剩下留給我們的部分就是台語、手語還有馬祖語。至於您剛才講那麼多的語言在各小學如何實施，是不是請教育部來回答？因為我們文化部好像沒管到……"],["洪委員孟楷：好，沒問題，我先請教教育部，國家語言發展法通過之後，大家就講這有可能會更加侵蝕教育現場的教育資源，還有師資的部分到底有沒有辦法補齊。到目前為止，我剛剛特別看了一下教育部今天的報告，寫得也是洋洋灑灑，但是最重要的現在師資缺額到底還有多少並沒有出現在裡面，是不是說明一下？"],["彭署長富源：跟委員報告，本土語在國小、國中兩個年級跟高中以一年級為主，這樣的需求目前已經培養了2萬3,600位師資，從第一年可能有1萬3,000名左右逐年實施，現在實施到最高年級數的時候會是9個年級……"],["洪委員孟楷：我們全臺灣預計需要多少師資？"],["彭署長富源：以現在的師資是夠的。去年是最滿的時候都夠，現在我們已經多培養了5,000名，當時跟委員報告……"],["洪委員孟楷：你們培養的是指拿到資格，但是有真的進入到媒合所有學校嗎？因為到目前為止，本席也看到有媒體報導說師資不足，所以有逾百所高中其實高一沒有開課，即便是到今年，也有50所以上的學校是高一沒開課，到高二、高三才開課，所以就是不想要排擠師資，等於是沒有辦法重疊使用嘛！"],["彭署長富源：跟委員報告，111學年剛開始實施的時候的確是逐月，甚至到後來是逐兩週、逐校幫忙瞭解，所以到最後8月中的時候，在111學年開學前的兩週，我們開全國校長會議的時候都逐縣市盤點，那個時候桃園還有幾所學校萬美玲委員有關心，都處理完了。後來因為有第一年的經驗，到112學年基本上老師的數量已經滿足，到今年要為113學年準備的時候，現在已經有遠超過當時的師資需求數，我們是逐月在處理中。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，我確認一下，到目前為止，因為現在是6月，明年9月新開學……"],["彭署長富源：今年9月。"],["洪委員孟楷：今年9月新開學的時候，不管是國小、國中、高中，我們國家語言發展的師資都是足夠的？"],["彭署長富源：是，我們會……"],["洪委員孟楷：全臺灣各學校？"],["彭署長富源：全臺灣各學校在施教的過程中，一定會有老師，而且我們還輔以直播共學這樣的一個制度，所以整體而言……"],["洪委員孟楷：本席有看到你們有這樣的制度，但重點在於你們的師資除了閩南語以外，還有客語、原民語，這些都足夠嗎？"],["彭署長富源：在這樣的一個……"],["洪委員孟楷：這些還是有相關的問題。"],["彭署長富源：委員所要垂詢的部分，基本上實體師資的部分，局部的像原民語有42個語系，難免有一些比較細的部分會跟原民會合作，目前我們準備的直播共學的老師也超過800位，所以可以在線上，在當場的實體那一端有老師跟學生一起，線上有優秀的族語老師可以一起來輔以教學。謝謝委員。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，我再請教部長，就您這樣所看到的，因為您是新任的文化部長，針對國家語言的發展和培養，在你心目中認為它到底是教育工作還是文化工作？"],["李部長遠：應該兩者都是吧！因為我們戰後出生的孩子從小在推廣華語的過程中，我覺得語言是一個滿自然的東西，然後它本身是越自然越好，但是不應該用語言本身來箝制所有的思想，譬如說推華語、不准講台語等等，我是經歷過這樣一個過程，所以現在國家讓每個語言都平等發展，客家語、原住民語等等，台語也流失得很厲害，我覺得回到這樣的狀態下，今天走到這個地步是一個在文化上非常平衡、健康的狀態。"],["洪委員孟楷：我理解，我也同意相對來講所有的語言都是大家溝通的工具，能夠溝通是最重要的，對不對？"],["李部長遠：嗯。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以目前為止，我自己看到的是，我們也不會因為獨尊哪個語言而背棄哪個語言。"],["李部長遠：對！"],["洪委員孟楷：另外，部長剛剛也提到自然，就是大家在使用上習慣成自然，所以這些語言用詞也會來做使用，是不是這樣？"],["李部長遠：對，譬如說最近黃仁勳在台下講話的時候是用英語夾雜台語，他也試著講華語，那就是一種語言嘛！我覺得語言會隨著不同族群進來之後而修改，這當然是一種文化，譬如說日本人統治臺灣的時候，台語就會加上一些……"],["洪委員孟楷：譬如說台語的打火機發音是lài-tah，很多人就說它其實是日文的ライター，源自英文的lighter……"],["李部長遠：對、對。"],["洪委員孟楷：英文、日文，之後再變台語，是這樣的一個感覺嘛！是不是？"],["李部長遠：所以語言涵蓋的文化性是非常強大的，希望我們的小孩子可以懂多一點語言，這是滿好的。"],["洪委員孟楷：好。部長，我請教，不曉得您之前有沒有看到一則新聞，它報導一個小朋友的聯絡簿上面寫「鞋子不換估計是不行的了」，結果老師把「估計」兩個字劃起來，寫上「別用中國用語比較好」，那您怎麼看？"],["李部長遠：我不太能想像這個老師這樣批，我不太能想像啦！因為在……"],["洪委員孟楷：您會使用「估計」這個用詞嗎？"],["李部長遠：我會啊！因為我覺得就像我剛剛有講到……"],["洪委員孟楷：很自然嘛！"],["李部長遠：我們這一整代的人都是從小接受華語教育的，所以我們的用字、用語就是很自然會用我們熟悉的，包括我們小時候學文言文嘛！然後我們學……"],["洪委員孟楷：孔曰成仁，孟云取義，唯其義盡，所以仁至。"],["李部長遠：我們每一代人的語言都會變啦，我們每一代人的語言都會變。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以部長您自己怎麼看？網路上有兩派論戰，覺得現在中國大陸也好，或是說華人圈也好，有一些用詞是兩岸交流之後大家越來越有在使用的，譬如說「小鮮肉」，以前臺灣並沒有這樣的用法……"],["李部長遠：對、對。"],["洪委員孟楷：可能對岸用得比較多，但是現在大家好像習以為常，甚至媒體報導也都直接寫「小鮮肉」。還有「接地氣」……"],["李部長遠：對、對、對。"],["洪委員孟楷：「接地氣」，甚至我們的前閣揆蘇貞昌也很常說自己是最接地氣的人，對不對？那您怎麼看這樣的一個狀況？包括「閨蜜」、「碰瓷」……"],["李部長遠：是、是。"],["洪委員孟楷：這些感覺好像也都是兩岸交流之後，大家越來越會使用的。"],["李部長遠：我必須強調，文化是開放的，而不是封閉的，所以包括新住民來臺灣，他怎麼樣吃一條魚都會改變，因為兩岸開放之後，一些熟悉的語言來到臺灣，不知不覺變成臺灣的語言……"],["洪委員孟楷：部長會不會擔心這樣子有文化統戰？"],["李部長遠：我不覺得，我覺得文化本身就是一種融合，政治是一回事，文化是一個包容性的，我們沒有必要刻意去說這個是怎樣，我排斥它，這個是不對的！我剛剛一直強調，文化是最自然的事情。"],["洪委員孟楷：同意！其實本席之前有幸也擔任過地方的文化首長，我那個時候就一直強調一個概念：文化就是一群人在一段時間裡面的習慣，經過一段時間的薰陶，變成習慣成自然，自然變文化，而逐漸自然地形成。所以絕對不用去互相影響或排斥，而是怎麼樣能夠融入，讓一群人大家有一個集體的共識，我想這才是文化的真締和本意，是不是？"],["李部長遠：是！文化應該是加法，而不是減法嘛！"],["洪委員孟楷：是！"],["李部長遠：我們歷朝歷代都會想把前面的推翻，譬如說國民政府來了就把日本的東西推翻，再來又怎樣、怎樣，我覺得文化一定要用加法，它才會很豐富，臺灣今天之所以珍貴，就在於它的多元，經歷過不同文化的洗禮。"],["洪委員孟楷：民進黨政府上任之後應該沒有想要把之前的政府給推翻吧？"],["李部長遠：應該沒有吧！"],["洪委員孟楷：我們一起努力啦！其實我同意部長講的文化是加法啦！既然是加法，我們就是海納百川、包容，其實臺灣最自豪的就是多元文化，能夠讓文化更多元、更自由、更民主、更開放，我想這是我們臺灣寶貴的地方。"],["李部長遠：是！"],["洪委員孟楷：我們一起努力。謝謝部長。"],["李部長遠：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員，部長請回。","接下來請陳培瑜委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":274,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-15","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","林倩綺","萬美玲","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","林俊憲","張啓楷","吳沛憶","范雲","吳春城","鄭天財Sra 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,714 --> 00:00:28,844\n主席謝謝麻煩請文化部李部長以及我們教育部教育部監事署長來是不是國教署嗎好那我們請彭署長還有那個李部長謝謝委員好部長我先請教一下本時有看到說從6月8號開始我們因應花蓮0403地震我們再加碼1200元的這個文化幣\n\n2\n00:00:36,167 --> 00:00:55,959\n那請教這文化幣因為本席看了半天還是覺得是說當然衝為花蓮復興振興這個是美意啊所以現在是民眾可以到就是符合資格的年輕朋友16歲到22歲他可以到6月8號開始可以到花蓮去領取文化幣但有沒有限定要在花蓮使用?\n\n3\n00:00:58,246 --> 00:01:11,612\n報告委員,的確是要我們現在是只要持有文化幣資格的人到花蓮去在當地裡面才可以領到文化幣可以領,但是沒有限花蓮使用一定要限在花蓮使用有嗎?\n\n4\n00:01:11,612 --> 00:01:15,434\n有有有你們的上面的規範沒有寫到限花蓮使用阿?\n\n5\n00:01:16,479 --> 00:01:45,491\n你們上面的規範是說優惠方式是跟原有的文化幣合併使用是所以換言之會讓外界以為是說你只要去領取完之後你才可以全台各縣市使用說清楚是是這我們會說清楚所以就是現花蓮使用是是是這個花蓮6月8日加碼的文化幣就是1200元在今年的6月8日一直到年底可以到花蓮領取花蓮使用是就是要振興花蓮的文化觀光發展是不是\n\n6\n00:01:46,031 --> 00:01:46,913\n今天主要．\n\n7\n00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:19,986\n我們的這個國家語言發展法其實從2019年開始通過之後到現在3、4年的時間但是我想部長您這個上任一個月左右你應該也很了解到底文化跟教育兩個衝突的部分\n\n8\n00:02:20,586 --> 00:02:39,994\n到底我們國家要怎麼樣來去做一個推廣尤其我們在文化國家語言發展法裡面定義當然很良善本席也認同是說應該要來鼓勵所有的一個語言但目前為止我們所定的國家語言發展法到底國家語言有多少目前我們在\n\n9\n00:02:41,657 --> 00:03:02,386\n有7種,廣義的有7種只有7種嗎?大約譬如華語,就是大家最常講的華語然後就台灣台語,台灣客家語台灣原住民語,然後還有平埔族語還有麻族語,還有這個俗語這是我們在法律上面\n\n10\n00:03:03,325 --> 00:03:09,829\n大致上把它分類大概是這樣但一般來講大家也講是說其實本土語言規定國小來講有52種\n\n11\n00:03:12,301 --> 00:03:31,789\n有米蘭語、閩東語、臺灣手語、客語還有不同的腔調光腔調就可以分6種原住民語還可以不同的族語還可以分到42種更不要講是說如果說國小還在加入新住民語那新住民語還有7種不同的新住民話所以夯巴郎加起來是59種\n\n12\n00:03:33,902 --> 00:03:56,791\n那這樣子對於我們的這個不管是國家語文的一個發展來講我們推廣我們有那麼多的資源嗎?因為本時有特別看到我們的主管機關是文化部但主管機關文化部其實只針對臺語、馬祖語跟臺灣手語這三個為你們主責的方向是不是?剛剛您講到說我們在國家發展委員裡面因為本來就有客委會\n\n13\n00:03:58,451 --> 00:04:19,037\n原民臺、原委會他們各自負責自己的部分那剩下的部分留給我們的就是臺語還有手語還有麻竹語那至於您剛才講的那麼多的語言在各小學如何實施是不是請教育部來回答因為我們文化部好像沒有問題我先請教文化部文化部現在教育部\n\n14\n00:04:20,057 --> 00:04:44,609\n教育部現在我們的之前國家語言發展法要通過之後大家就講是說這有可能會讓教育現場更加的侵蝕教育資源那還有失知的部分到底有沒有辦法來補給到目前為止我剛剛特別看了一下我們教育部今天的報告寫的也是洋洋灑灑但是最重要的現在的失知的部分\n\n15\n00:04:54,635 --> 00:05:11,801\n本土比在國小、國中、兩個年級跟高中以一年級為主將近降的一個需求目前已經培養了兩萬三千六百位師資每一年從第一年可能有一萬三千名左右\n\n16\n00:05:12,361 --> 00:05:41,581\n那時候是福音逐年實施那現在實施的最高的年級數的時候會是九個年級我們全臺灣預計需要多少師資以現在的師資是夠的只要在去年是最滿的時候都夠那現在我們已經多培養了五千名當時跟委員們報告你培養的是只拿到資格但是有真的進入到媒合所有學校因為到目前為止本席也看到有媒體報導講是說師資不足啊所以有百\n\n17\n00:06:00,054 --> 00:06:00,074\n委員會長\n\n18\n00:06:29,736 --> 00:06:30,423\n到一一二\n\n19\n00:06:31,810 --> 00:06:59,304\n11、12學年基本上老師的數量已經滿足到今年要為11、13年再準備的時候現在已經有遠超過當時的師資需求數那我確認到目前為止因為現在6月嘛那明年9月的時候新開學的時候不管是國小、國中、高中我們的本土就是我們的國家語言發展的師資都是足夠的\n\n20\n00:07:00,324 --> 00:07:19,249\n全台灣各學校在試教的這個過程中一定會有老師那麼我們還服以直播共學這樣的一個制度所以整體而言有看到你這樣的制度但是重點在於是你的各師之除了這個米蘭語以外客語、原名語這些都足夠嗎?\n\n21\n00:07:21,390 --> 00:07:41,807\n這些還是有相關的問題,來,梁燕西。抱歉,打擾委員長。委員看到垂詢的部分,基本上實體實字的部分在局部的像原名語有42個語系,這個難免有一些比較細的部分會跟原名會做合作。目前我們準備的直播共學的老師也超過800位,所以可以在線上在當場的實體那一端有老師跟學生一起\n\n22\n00:07:47,051 --> 00:08:05,196\n那麼線上有優秀的竹語老師可以一起來附以教學。謝謝委員,謝謝。好,來,部長,我再請教。部長,就您這樣子看到,因為您是新任的文化部長,一個國家語言的發展跟培養,就你心目中認為,它到底是教育工作還是文化工作?\n\n23\n00:08:06,509 --> 00:08:28,963\n應該兩者都是吧因為我們從小那個戰後出生的孩子在推廣華語的過程中我覺得語言是一個蠻自然的東西然後它本身是越自然越好但是不應該用語言本身來前置所有的那個思想比如說我們推華語不准講台語等等我是經歷過這樣一個過程所以現在國家\n\n24\n00:08:32,005 --> 00:08:34,266\n我自己覺得今天走到這個地步是一個在文化上非常的平衡健康的狀態\n\n25\n00:08:49,605 --> 00:09:16,707\n我理解跟我也同意說相對來講所有的語言都是一個大家溝通的工具嘛可以溝通是最重要的對不對所以說在目前為止我自己看到的是說我們也不會說是因為獨尊哪一個語言而背棄哪一個語言那另外您剛剛也提到部長您剛剛也提到自然就是說大家使用這個習慣日久習慣成自然所以說這個語言用詞也會來做使用\n\n26\n00:09:17,327 --> 00:09:44,896\n是不是這樣?對,像譬如說最近黃仁勳他在台下講話的時候你發現他是用英文他夾雜台語他也試著講華語那就是一種語言嘛我覺得語言會隨著不同族群進來之後會修改那當然是一種文化譬如說日本統治台灣的時候台語就會加上那個一些那個等等譬如說台語的這打火機叫Light打其實很多人就講是說它其實就是日文的Light\n\n27\n00:09:45,276 --> 00:10:14,556\n對對不對英文然後日文然後之後再變台語這樣的一個感覺所以語言它涵蓋的真的文化性是非常強大的所以希望我們的小孩子他可以懂多一點語言是蠻好的好那部長我請教不知道有沒有看到之前有一個新聞是有一個小學生小朋友的聯絡簿上面寫說鞋子不換估計是不行的結果老師把估計兩個字畫出來講說不要用中國的用語比較好\n\n28\n00:10:15,436 --> 00:10:33,975\n您怎麼看?我不太能想像這個老師這樣批我不太能想像因為在估計您會使用估計這個用詞嗎?我會啊因為我覺得就像我剛剛有講到說我們這一整代的人都是從小接受華語教育的所以我們的用字用語\n\n29\n00:10:34,796 --> 00:10:36,257\n所以部長您自己怎麼看有一些人也網路上有兩派論戰就覺得是說現在\n\n30\n00:10:54,335 --> 00:11:13,337\n中國大陸也好或說華人圈也好有一些用詞是兩岸交流之後大家越來越使用譬如說小鮮肉以前其實台灣如果說以真的來講我們台灣是沒有這樣的一個用法可能對岸用比較多但是現在好像大家習以為常甚至媒體報導都直接寫小鮮肉\n\n31\n00:11:14,398 --> 00:11:19,303\n您怎麼看這樣的一個狀況?閨密、碰瓷這些感覺好像也都是兩岸交流之後大家越來越使用的我剛剛必須強調文化是一個開放的而不是封閉的所以包括你說新住民來台灣\n\n32\n00:11:39,321 --> 00:11:39,981\n我剛一直強調文化是最自然的事情\n\n33\n00:12:07,235 --> 00:12:34,304\n同意其實本席之前有幸也擔任過地方的文化首長我那時候就一直強調一個概念就是文化就是一群人在一段時間裡面的習慣經過一段時間的熏陶變成是習慣成自然自然變文化而逐漸自然的形成所以說它絕對不是不用說去互相影響或排斥而是怎麼樣能夠融入讓所以一群人大家有一個集體的共識我想這才是文化的真諦跟本意是不是\n\n34\n00:12:34,804 --> 00:12:37,605\n應該沒有想要把之前的政府給推翻吧應該沒有吧\n\n35\n00:13:02,025 --> 00:13:02,665\n我們一起努力\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5714\t28844\t主席謝謝麻煩請文化部李部長以及我們教育部教育部監事署長來是不是國教署嗎好那我們請彭署長還有那個李部長謝謝委員好部長我先請教一下本時有看到說從6月8號開始我們因應花蓮0403地震我們再加碼1200元的這個文化幣\n36167\t55959\t那請教這文化幣因為本席看了半天還是覺得是說當然衝為花蓮復興振興這個是美意啊所以現在是民眾可以到就是符合資格的年輕朋友16歲到22歲他可以到6月8號開始可以到花蓮去領取文化幣但有沒有限定要在花蓮使用?\n58246\t71612\t報告委員,的確是要我們現在是只要持有文化幣資格的人到花蓮去在當地裡面才可以領到文化幣可以領,但是沒有限花蓮使用一定要限在花蓮使用有嗎?\n71612\t75434\t有有有你們的上面的規範沒有寫到限花蓮使用阿?\n76479\t105491\t你們上面的規範是說優惠方式是跟原有的文化幣合併使用是所以換言之會讓外界以為是說你只要去領取完之後你才可以全台各縣市使用說清楚是是這我們會說清楚所以就是現花蓮使用是是是這個花蓮6月8日加碼的文化幣就是1200元在今年的6月8日一直到年底可以到花蓮領取花蓮使用是就是要振興花蓮的文化觀光發展是不是\n106031\t106913\t今天主要．\n122520\t139986\t我們的這個國家語言發展法其實從2019年開始通過之後到現在3、4年的時間但是我想部長您這個上任一個月左右你應該也很了解到底文化跟教育兩個衝突的部分\n140586\t159994\t到底我們國家要怎麼樣來去做一個推廣尤其我們在文化國家語言發展法裡面定義當然很良善本席也認同是說應該要來鼓勵所有的一個語言但目前為止我們所定的國家語言發展法到底國家語言有多少目前我們在\n161657\t182386\t有7種,廣義的有7種只有7種嗎?大約譬如華語,就是大家最常講的華語然後就台灣台語,台灣客家語台灣原住民語,然後還有平埔族語還有麻族語,還有這個俗語這是我們在法律上面\n183325\t189829\t大致上把它分類大概是這樣但一般來講大家也講是說其實本土語言規定國小來講有52種\n192301\t211789\t有米蘭語、閩東語、臺灣手語、客語還有不同的腔調光腔調就可以分6種原住民語還可以不同的族語還可以分到42種更不要講是說如果說國小還在加入新住民語那新住民語還有7種不同的新住民話所以夯巴郎加起來是59種\n213902\t236791\t那這樣子對於我們的這個不管是國家語文的一個發展來講我們推廣我們有那麼多的資源嗎?因為本時有特別看到我們的主管機關是文化部但主管機關文化部其實只針對臺語、馬祖語跟臺灣手語這三個為你們主責的方向是不是?剛剛您講到說我們在國家發展委員裡面因為本來就有客委會\n238451\t259037\t原民臺、原委會他們各自負責自己的部分那剩下的部分留給我們的就是臺語還有手語還有麻竹語那至於您剛才講的那麼多的語言在各小學如何實施是不是請教育部來回答因為我們文化部好像沒有問題我先請教文化部文化部現在 教育部\n260057\t284609\t教育部現在我們的之前國家語言發展法要通過之後大家就講是說這有可能會讓教育現場更加的侵蝕教育資源那還有失知的部分到底有沒有辦法來補給到目前為止我剛剛特別看了一下我們教育部今天的報告寫的也是洋洋灑灑但是最重要的現在的失知的部分\n294635\t311801\t本土比在國小、國中、兩個年級跟高中以一年級為主將近降的一個需求目前已經培養了兩萬三千六百位師資每一年從第一年可能有一萬三千名左右\n312361\t341581\t那時候是福音逐年實施那現在實施的最高的年級數的時候會是九個年級我們全臺灣預計需要多少師資以現在的師資是夠的只要在去年是最滿的時候都夠那現在我們已經多培養了五千名當時跟委員們報告你培養的是只拿到資格但是有真的進入到媒合所有學校因為到目前為止本席也看到有媒體報導講是說師資不足啊所以有百\n342261\t359292\t獲獲獲獲獲\n360054\t360074\t委員會長\n389736\t390423\t到一一二\n391810\t419304\t11、12學年基本上老師的數量已經滿足到今年要為11、13年再準備的時候現在已經有遠超過當時的師資需求數那我確認到目前為止因為現在6月嘛那明年9月的時候新開學的時候不管是國小、國中、高中我們的本土就是我們的國家語言發展的師資都是足夠的\n420324\t439249\t全台灣各學校在試教的這個過程中一定會有老師那麼我們還服以直播共學這樣的一個制度所以整體而言有看到你這樣的制度但是重點在於是你的各師之除了這個米蘭語以外客語、原名語這些都足夠嗎?\n441390\t461807\t這些還是有相關的問題,來,梁燕西。抱歉,打擾委員長。委員看到垂詢的部分,基本上實體實字的部分在局部的像原名語有42個語系,這個難免有一些比較細的部分會跟原名會做合作。目前我們準備的直播共學的老師也超過800位,所以可以在線上在當場的實體那一端有老師跟學生一起\n467051\t485196\t那麼線上有優秀的竹語老師可以一起來附以教學。謝謝委員,謝謝。好,來,部長,我再請教。部長,就您這樣子看到,因為您是新任的文化部長,一個國家語言的發展跟培養,就你心目中認為,它到底是教育工作還是文化工作?\n486509\t508963\t應該兩者都是吧因為我們從小那個戰後出生的孩子在推廣華語的過程中我覺得語言是一個蠻自然的東西然後它本身是越自然越好但是不應該用語言本身來前置所有的那個思想比如說我們推華語不准講台語等等我是經歷過這樣一個過程所以現在國家\n512005\t514266\t我自己覺得今天走到這個地步是一個在文化上非常的平衡健康的狀態\n529605\t556707\t我理解跟我也同意說相對來講所有的語言都是一個大家溝通的工具嘛可以溝通是最重要的對不對所以說在目前為止我自己看到的是說我們也不會說是因為獨尊哪一個語言而背棄哪一個語言那另外您剛剛也提到部長您剛剛也提到自然就是說大家使用這個習慣日久習慣成自然所以說這個語言用詞也會來做使用\n557327\t584896\t是不是這樣?對,像譬如說最近黃仁勳他在台下講話的時候你發現他是用英文他夾雜台語他也試著講華語那就是一種語言嘛我覺得語言會隨著不同族群進來之後會修改那當然是一種文化譬如說日本統治台灣的時候台語就會加上那個一些那個等等譬如說台語的這打火機叫Light打其實很多人就講是說它其實就是日文的Light\n585276\t614556\t對 對不對英文然後日文然後之後再變台語這樣的一個感覺所以語言它涵蓋的真的文化性是非常強大的所以希望我們的小孩子他可以懂多一點語言是蠻好的好那部長我請教不知道有沒有看到之前有一個新聞是有一個小學生小朋友的聯絡簿上面寫說鞋子不換估計是不行的結果老師把估計兩個字畫出來講說不要用中國的用語比較好\n615436\t633975\t您怎麼看?我不太能想像這個老師這樣批我不太能想像因為在估計您會使用估計這個用詞嗎?我會啊因為我覺得就像我剛剛有講到說我們這一整代的人都是從小接受華語教育的所以我們的用字用語\n634796\t636257\t所以部長您自己怎麼看有一些人也網路上有兩派論戰就覺得是說現在\n654335\t673337\t中國大陸也好或說華人圈也好有一些用詞是兩岸交流之後大家越來越使用譬如說小鮮肉以前其實台灣如果說以真的來講我們台灣是沒有這樣的一個用法可能對岸用比較多但是現在好像大家習以為常甚至媒體報導都直接寫小鮮肉\n674398\t679303\t您怎麼看這樣的一個狀況?閨密、碰瓷這些感覺好像也都是兩岸交流之後大家越來越使用的我剛剛必須強調文化是一個開放的而不是封閉的所以包括你說新住民來台灣\n699321\t699981\t我剛一直強調文化是最自然的事情\n727235\t754304\t同意其實本席之前有幸也擔任過地方的文化首長我那時候就一直強調一個概念就是文化就是一群人在一段時間裡面的習慣經過一段時間的熏陶變成是習慣成自然自然變文化而逐漸自然的形成所以說它絕對不是不用說去互相影響或排斥而是怎麼樣能夠融入讓所以一群人大家有一個集體的共識我想這才是文化的真諦跟本意是不是\n754804\t757605\t應該沒有想要把之前的政府給推翻吧應該沒有吧\n782025\t782665\t我們一起努力\n","txt":"主席謝謝麻煩請文化部李部長以及我們教育部教育部監事署長來是不是國教署嗎好那我們請彭署長還有那個李部長謝謝委員好部長我先請教一下本時有看到說從6月8號開始我們因應花蓮0403地震我們再加碼1200元的這個文化幣\n那請教這文化幣因為本席看了半天還是覺得是說當然衝為花蓮復興振興這個是美意啊所以現在是民眾可以到就是符合資格的年輕朋友16歲到22歲他可以到6月8號開始可以到花蓮去領取文化幣但有沒有限定要在花蓮使用?\n報告委員,的確是要我們現在是只要持有文化幣資格的人到花蓮去在當地裡面才可以領到文化幣可以領,但是沒有限花蓮使用一定要限在花蓮使用有嗎?\n有有有你們的上面的規範沒有寫到限花蓮使用阿?\n你們上面的規範是說優惠方式是跟原有的文化幣合併使用是所以換言之會讓外界以為是說你只要去領取完之後你才可以全台各縣市使用說清楚是是這我們會說清楚所以就是現花蓮使用是是是這個花蓮6月8日加碼的文化幣就是1200元在今年的6月8日一直到年底可以到花蓮領取花蓮使用是就是要振興花蓮的文化觀光發展是不是\n今天主要．\n我們的這個國家語言發展法其實從2019年開始通過之後到現在3、4年的時間但是我想部長您這個上任一個月左右你應該也很了解到底文化跟教育兩個衝突的部分\n到底我們國家要怎麼樣來去做一個推廣尤其我們在文化國家語言發展法裡面定義當然很良善本席也認同是說應該要來鼓勵所有的一個語言但目前為止我們所定的國家語言發展法到底國家語言有多少目前我們在\n有7種,廣義的有7種只有7種嗎?大約譬如華語,就是大家最常講的華語然後就台灣台語,台灣客家語台灣原住民語,然後還有平埔族語還有麻族語,還有這個俗語這是我們在法律上面\n大致上把它分類大概是這樣但一般來講大家也講是說其實本土語言規定國小來講有52種\n有米蘭語、閩東語、臺灣手語、客語還有不同的腔調光腔調就可以分6種原住民語還可以不同的族語還可以分到42種更不要講是說如果說國小還在加入新住民語那新住民語還有7種不同的新住民話所以夯巴郎加起來是59種\n那這樣子對於我們的這個不管是國家語文的一個發展來講我們推廣我們有那麼多的資源嗎?因為本時有特別看到我們的主管機關是文化部但主管機關文化部其實只針對臺語、馬祖語跟臺灣手語這三個為你們主責的方向是不是?剛剛您講到說我們在國家發展委員裡面因為本來就有客委會\n原民臺、原委會他們各自負責自己的部分那剩下的部分留給我們的就是臺語還有手語還有麻竹語那至於您剛才講的那麼多的語言在各小學如何實施是不是請教育部來回答因為我們文化部好像沒有問題我先請教文化部文化部現在 教育部\n教育部現在我們的之前國家語言發展法要通過之後大家就講是說這有可能會讓教育現場更加的侵蝕教育資源那還有失知的部分到底有沒有辦法來補給到目前為止我剛剛特別看了一下我們教育部今天的報告寫的也是洋洋灑灑但是最重要的現在的失知的部分\n本土比在國小、國中、兩個年級跟高中以一年級為主將近降的一個需求目前已經培養了兩萬三千六百位師資每一年從第一年可能有一萬三千名左右\n那時候是福音逐年實施那現在實施的最高的年級數的時候會是九個年級我們全臺灣預計需要多少師資以現在的師資是夠的只要在去年是最滿的時候都夠那現在我們已經多培養了五千名當時跟委員們報告你培養的是只拿到資格但是有真的進入到媒合所有學校因為到目前為止本席也看到有媒體報導講是說師資不足啊所以有百\n獲獲獲獲獲\n委員會長\n到一一二\n11、12學年基本上老師的數量已經滿足到今年要為11、13年再準備的時候現在已經有遠超過當時的師資需求數那我確認到目前為止因為現在6月嘛那明年9月的時候新開學的時候不管是國小、國中、高中我們的本土就是我們的國家語言發展的師資都是足夠的\n全台灣各學校在試教的這個過程中一定會有老師那麼我們還服以直播共學這樣的一個制度所以整體而言有看到你這樣的制度但是重點在於是你的各師之除了這個米蘭語以外客語、原名語這些都足夠嗎?\n這些還是有相關的問題,來,梁燕西。抱歉,打擾委員長。委員看到垂詢的部分,基本上實體實字的部分在局部的像原名語有42個語系,這個難免有一些比較細的部分會跟原名會做合作。目前我們準備的直播共學的老師也超過800位,所以可以在線上在當場的實體那一端有老師跟學生一起\n那麼線上有優秀的竹語老師可以一起來附以教學。謝謝委員,謝謝。好,來,部長,我再請教。部長,就您這樣子看到,因為您是新任的文化部長,一個國家語言的發展跟培養,就你心目中認為,它到底是教育工作還是文化工作?\n應該兩者都是吧因為我們從小那個戰後出生的孩子在推廣華語的過程中我覺得語言是一個蠻自然的東西然後它本身是越自然越好但是不應該用語言本身來前置所有的那個思想比如說我們推華語不准講台語等等我是經歷過這樣一個過程所以現在國家\n我自己覺得今天走到這個地步是一個在文化上非常的平衡健康的狀態\n我理解跟我也同意說相對來講所有的語言都是一個大家溝通的工具嘛可以溝通是最重要的對不對所以說在目前為止我自己看到的是說我們也不會說是因為獨尊哪一個語言而背棄哪一個語言那另外您剛剛也提到部長您剛剛也提到自然就是說大家使用這個習慣日久習慣成自然所以說這個語言用詞也會來做使用\n是不是這樣?對,像譬如說最近黃仁勳他在台下講話的時候你發現他是用英文他夾雜台語他也試著講華語那就是一種語言嘛我覺得語言會隨著不同族群進來之後會修改那當然是一種文化譬如說日本統治台灣的時候台語就會加上那個一些那個等等譬如說台語的這打火機叫Light打其實很多人就講是說它其實就是日文的Light\n對 對不對英文然後日文然後之後再變台語這樣的一個感覺所以語言它涵蓋的真的文化性是非常強大的所以希望我們的小孩子他可以懂多一點語言是蠻好的好那部長我請教不知道有沒有看到之前有一個新聞是有一個小學生小朋友的聯絡簿上面寫說鞋子不換估計是不行的結果老師把估計兩個字畫出來講說不要用中國的用語比較好\n您怎麼看?我不太能想像這個老師這樣批我不太能想像因為在估計您會使用估計這個用詞嗎?我會啊因為我覺得就像我剛剛有講到說我們這一整代的人都是從小接受華語教育的所以我們的用字用語\n所以部長您自己怎麼看有一些人也網路上有兩派論戰就覺得是說現在\n中國大陸也好或說華人圈也好有一些用詞是兩岸交流之後大家越來越使用譬如說小鮮肉以前其實台灣如果說以真的來講我們台灣是沒有這樣的一個用法可能對岸用比較多但是現在好像大家習以為常甚至媒體報導都直接寫小鮮肉\n您怎麼看這樣的一個狀況?閨密、碰瓷這些感覺好像也都是兩岸交流之後大家越來越使用的我剛剛必須強調文化是一個開放的而不是封閉的所以包括你說新住民來台灣\n我剛一直強調文化是最自然的事情\n同意其實本席之前有幸也擔任過地方的文化首長我那時候就一直強調一個概念就是文化就是一群人在一段時間裡面的習慣經過一段時間的熏陶變成是習慣成自然自然變文化而逐漸自然的形成所以說它絕對不是不用說去互相影響或排斥而是怎麼樣能夠融入讓所以一群人大家有一個集體的共識我想這才是文化的真諦跟本意是不是\n應該沒有想要把之前的政府給推翻吧應該沒有吧\n我們一起努力\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.714 --> 00:28.844\n主席謝謝麻煩請文化部李部長以及我們教育部教育部監事署長來是不是國教署嗎好那我們請彭署長還有那個李部長謝謝委員好部長我先請教一下本時有看到說從6月8號開始我們因應花蓮0403地震我們再加碼1200元的這個文化幣\n\n00:36.167 --> 00:55.959\n那請教這文化幣因為本席看了半天還是覺得是說當然衝為花蓮復興振興這個是美意啊所以現在是民眾可以到就是符合資格的年輕朋友16歲到22歲他可以到6月8號開始可以到花蓮去領取文化幣但有沒有限定要在花蓮使用?\n\n00:58.246 --> 01:11.612\n報告委員,的確是要我們現在是只要持有文化幣資格的人到花蓮去在當地裡面才可以領到文化幣可以領,但是沒有限花蓮使用一定要限在花蓮使用有嗎?\n\n01:11.612 --> 01:15.434\n有有有你們的上面的規範沒有寫到限花蓮使用阿?\n\n01:16.479 --> 01:45.491\n你們上面的規範是說優惠方式是跟原有的文化幣合併使用是所以換言之會讓外界以為是說你只要去領取完之後你才可以全台各縣市使用說清楚是是這我們會說清楚所以就是現花蓮使用是是是這個花蓮6月8日加碼的文化幣就是1200元在今年的6月8日一直到年底可以到花蓮領取花蓮使用是就是要振興花蓮的文化觀光發展是不是\n\n01:46.031 --> 01:46.913\n今天主要．\n\n02:02.520 --> 02:19.986\n我們的這個國家語言發展法其實從2019年開始通過之後到現在3、4年的時間但是我想部長您這個上任一個月左右你應該也很了解到底文化跟教育兩個衝突的部分\n\n02:20.586 --> 02:39.994\n到底我們國家要怎麼樣來去做一個推廣尤其我們在文化國家語言發展法裡面定義當然很良善本席也認同是說應該要來鼓勵所有的一個語言但目前為止我們所定的國家語言發展法到底國家語言有多少目前我們在\n\n02:41.657 --> 03:02.386\n有7種,廣義的有7種只有7種嗎?大約譬如華語,就是大家最常講的華語然後就台灣台語,台灣客家語台灣原住民語,然後還有平埔族語還有麻族語,還有這個俗語這是我們在法律上面\n\n03:03.325 --> 03:09.829\n大致上把它分類大概是這樣但一般來講大家也講是說其實本土語言規定國小來講有52種\n\n03:12.301 --> 03:31.789\n有米蘭語、閩東語、臺灣手語、客語還有不同的腔調光腔調就可以分6種原住民語還可以不同的族語還可以分到42種更不要講是說如果說國小還在加入新住民語那新住民語還有7種不同的新住民話所以夯巴郎加起來是59種\n\n03:33.902 --> 03:56.791\n那這樣子對於我們的這個不管是國家語文的一個發展來講我們推廣我們有那麼多的資源嗎?因為本時有特別看到我們的主管機關是文化部但主管機關文化部其實只針對臺語、馬祖語跟臺灣手語這三個為你們主責的方向是不是?剛剛您講到說我們在國家發展委員裡面因為本來就有客委會\n\n03:58.451 --> 04:19.037\n原民臺、原委會他們各自負責自己的部分那剩下的部分留給我們的就是臺語還有手語還有麻竹語那至於您剛才講的那麼多的語言在各小學如何實施是不是請教育部來回答因為我們文化部好像沒有問題我先請教文化部文化部現在教育部\n\n04:20.057 --> 04:44.609\n教育部現在我們的之前國家語言發展法要通過之後大家就講是說這有可能會讓教育現場更加的侵蝕教育資源那還有失知的部分到底有沒有辦法來補給到目前為止我剛剛特別看了一下我們教育部今天的報告寫的也是洋洋灑灑但是最重要的現在的失知的部分\n\n04:54.635 --> 05:11.801\n本土比在國小、國中、兩個年級跟高中以一年級為主將近降的一個需求目前已經培養了兩萬三千六百位師資每一年從第一年可能有一萬三千名左右\n\n05:12.361 --> 05:41.581\n那時候是福音逐年實施那現在實施的最高的年級數的時候會是九個年級我們全臺灣預計需要多少師資以現在的師資是夠的只要在去年是最滿的時候都夠那現在我們已經多培養了五千名當時跟委員們報告你培養的是只拿到資格但是有真的進入到媒合所有學校因為到目前為止本席也看到有媒體報導講是說師資不足啊所以有百\n\n06:00.054 --> 06:00.074\n委員會長\n\n06:29.736 --> 06:30.423\n到一一二\n\n06:31.810 --> 06:59.304\n11、12學年基本上老師的數量已經滿足到今年要為11、13年再準備的時候現在已經有遠超過當時的師資需求數那我確認到目前為止因為現在6月嘛那明年9月的時候新開學的時候不管是國小、國中、高中我們的本土就是我們的國家語言發展的師資都是足夠的\n\n07:00.324 --> 07:19.249\n全台灣各學校在試教的這個過程中一定會有老師那麼我們還服以直播共學這樣的一個制度所以整體而言有看到你這樣的制度但是重點在於是你的各師之除了這個米蘭語以外客語、原名語這些都足夠嗎?\n\n07:21.390 --> 07:41.807\n這些還是有相關的問題,來,梁燕西。抱歉,打擾委員長。委員看到垂詢的部分,基本上實體實字的部分在局部的像原名語有42個語系,這個難免有一些比較細的部分會跟原名會做合作。目前我們準備的直播共學的老師也超過800位,所以可以在線上在當場的實體那一端有老師跟學生一起\n\n07:47.051 --> 08:05.196\n那麼線上有優秀的竹語老師可以一起來附以教學。謝謝委員,謝謝。好,來,部長,我再請教。部長,就您這樣子看到,因為您是新任的文化部長,一個國家語言的發展跟培養,就你心目中認為,它到底是教育工作還是文化工作?\n\n08:06.509 --> 08:28.963\n應該兩者都是吧因為我們從小那個戰後出生的孩子在推廣華語的過程中我覺得語言是一個蠻自然的東西然後它本身是越自然越好但是不應該用語言本身來前置所有的那個思想比如說我們推華語不准講台語等等我是經歷過這樣一個過程所以現在國家\n\n08:32.005 --> 08:34.266\n我自己覺得今天走到這個地步是一個在文化上非常的平衡健康的狀態\n\n08:49.605 --> 09:16.707\n我理解跟我也同意說相對來講所有的語言都是一個大家溝通的工具嘛可以溝通是最重要的對不對所以說在目前為止我自己看到的是說我們也不會說是因為獨尊哪一個語言而背棄哪一個語言那另外您剛剛也提到部長您剛剛也提到自然就是說大家使用這個習慣日久習慣成自然所以說這個語言用詞也會來做使用\n\n09:17.327 --> 09:44.896\n是不是這樣?對,像譬如說最近黃仁勳他在台下講話的時候你發現他是用英文他夾雜台語他也試著講華語那就是一種語言嘛我覺得語言會隨著不同族群進來之後會修改那當然是一種文化譬如說日本統治台灣的時候台語就會加上那個一些那個等等譬如說台語的這打火機叫Light打其實很多人就講是說它其實就是日文的Light\n\n09:45.276 --> 10:14.556\n對對不對英文然後日文然後之後再變台語這樣的一個感覺所以語言它涵蓋的真的文化性是非常強大的所以希望我們的小孩子他可以懂多一點語言是蠻好的好那部長我請教不知道有沒有看到之前有一個新聞是有一個小學生小朋友的聯絡簿上面寫說鞋子不換估計是不行的結果老師把估計兩個字畫出來講說不要用中國的用語比較好\n\n10:15.436 --> 10:33.975\n您怎麼看?我不太能想像這個老師這樣批我不太能想像因為在估計您會使用估計這個用詞嗎?我會啊因為我覺得就像我剛剛有講到說我們這一整代的人都是從小接受華語教育的所以我們的用字用語\n\n10:34.796 --> 10:36.257\n所以部長您自己怎麼看有一些人也網路上有兩派論戰就覺得是說現在\n\n10:54.335 --> 11:13.337\n中國大陸也好或說華人圈也好有一些用詞是兩岸交流之後大家越來越使用譬如說小鮮肉以前其實台灣如果說以真的來講我們台灣是沒有這樣的一個用法可能對岸用比較多但是現在好像大家習以為常甚至媒體報導都直接寫小鮮肉\n\n11:14.398 --> 11:19.303\n您怎麼看這樣的一個狀況?閨密、碰瓷這些感覺好像也都是兩岸交流之後大家越來越使用的我剛剛必須強調文化是一個開放的而不是封閉的所以包括你說新住民來台灣\n\n11:39.321 --> 11:39.981\n我剛一直強調文化是最自然的事情\n\n12:07.235 --> 12:34.304\n同意其實本席之前有幸也擔任過地方的文化首長我那時候就一直強調一個概念就是文化就是一群人在一段時間裡面的習慣經過一段時間的熏陶變成是習慣成自然自然變文化而逐漸自然的形成所以說它絕對不是不用說去互相影響或排斥而是怎麼樣能夠融入讓所以一群人大家有一個集體的共識我想這才是文化的真諦跟本意是不是\n\n12:34.804 --> 12:37.605\n應該沒有想要把之前的政府給推翻吧應該沒有吧\n\n13:02.025 --> 13:02.665\n我們一起努力\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.714,"end":28.844,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請文化部李部長以及我們教育部教育部監事署長來是不是國教署嗎好那我們請彭署長還有那個李部長謝謝委員好部長我先請教一下本時有看到說從6月8號開始我們因應花蓮0403地震我們再加碼1200元的這個文化幣"},{"start":36.167,"end":55.959,"text":"那請教這文化幣因為本席看了半天還是覺得是說當然衝為花蓮復興振興這個是美意啊所以現在是民眾可以到就是符合資格的年輕朋友16歲到22歲他可以到6月8號開始可以到花蓮去領取文化幣但有沒有限定要在花蓮使用?"},{"start":58.246,"end":71.612,"text":"報告委員,的確是要我們現在是只要持有文化幣資格的人到花蓮去在當地裡面才可以領到文化幣可以領,但是沒有限花蓮使用一定要限在花蓮使用有嗎?"},{"start":71.612,"end":75.434,"text":"有有有你們的上面的規範沒有寫到限花蓮使用阿?"},{"start":76.479,"end":105.491,"text":"你們上面的規範是說優惠方式是跟原有的文化幣合併使用是所以換言之會讓外界以為是說你只要去領取完之後你才可以全台各縣市使用說清楚是是這我們會說清楚所以就是現花蓮使用是是是這個花蓮6月8日加碼的文化幣就是1200元在今年的6月8日一直到年底可以到花蓮領取花蓮使用是就是要振興花蓮的文化觀光發展是不是"},{"start":106.031,"end":106.913,"text":"今天主要．"},{"start":122.52,"end":139.986,"text":"我們的這個國家語言發展法其實從2019年開始通過之後到現在3、4年的時間但是我想部長您這個上任一個月左右你應該也很了解到底文化跟教育兩個衝突的部分"},{"start":140.586,"end":159.994,"text":"到底我們國家要怎麼樣來去做一個推廣尤其我們在文化國家語言發展法裡面定義當然很良善本席也認同是說應該要來鼓勵所有的一個語言但目前為止我們所定的國家語言發展法到底國家語言有多少目前我們在"},{"start":161.657,"end":182.386,"text":"有7種,廣義的有7種只有7種嗎?大約譬如華語,就是大家最常講的華語然後就台灣台語,台灣客家語台灣原住民語,然後還有平埔族語還有麻族語,還有這個俗語這是我們在法律上面"},{"start":183.325,"end":189.829,"text":"大致上把它分類大概是這樣但一般來講大家也講是說其實本土語言規定國小來講有52種"},{"start":192.301,"end":211.789,"text":"有米蘭語、閩東語、臺灣手語、客語還有不同的腔調光腔調就可以分6種原住民語還可以不同的族語還可以分到42種更不要講是說如果說國小還在加入新住民語那新住民語還有7種不同的新住民話所以夯巴郎加起來是59種"},{"start":213.902,"end":236.791,"text":"那這樣子對於我們的這個不管是國家語文的一個發展來講我們推廣我們有那麼多的資源嗎?因為本時有特別看到我們的主管機關是文化部但主管機關文化部其實只針對臺語、馬祖語跟臺灣手語這三個為你們主責的方向是不是?剛剛您講到說我們在國家發展委員裡面因為本來就有客委會"},{"start":238.451,"end":259.037,"text":"原民臺、原委會他們各自負責自己的部分那剩下的部分留給我們的就是臺語還有手語還有麻竹語那至於您剛才講的那麼多的語言在各小學如何實施是不是請教育部來回答因為我們文化部好像沒有問題我先請教文化部文化部現在 教育部"},{"start":260.057,"end":284.609,"text":"教育部現在我們的之前國家語言發展法要通過之後大家就講是說這有可能會讓教育現場更加的侵蝕教育資源那還有失知的部分到底有沒有辦法來補給到目前為止我剛剛特別看了一下我們教育部今天的報告寫的也是洋洋灑灑但是最重要的現在的失知的部分"},{"start":294.635,"end":311.801,"text":"本土比在國小、國中、兩個年級跟高中以一年級為主將近降的一個需求目前已經培養了兩萬三千六百位師資每一年從第一年可能有一萬三千名左右"},{"start":312.361,"end":341.581,"text":"那時候是福音逐年實施那現在實施的最高的年級數的時候會是九個年級我們全臺灣預計需要多少師資以現在的師資是夠的只要在去年是最滿的時候都夠那現在我們已經多培養了五千名當時跟委員們報告你培養的是只拿到資格但是有真的進入到媒合所有學校因為到目前為止本席也看到有媒體報導講是說師資不足啊所以有百"},{"start":342.261,"end":359.292,"text":"獲獲獲獲獲"},{"start":360.054,"end":360.074,"text":"委員會長"},{"start":389.736,"end":390.423,"text":"到一一二"},{"start":391.81,"end":419.304,"text":"11、12學年基本上老師的數量已經滿足到今年要為11、13年再準備的時候現在已經有遠超過當時的師資需求數那我確認到目前為止因為現在6月嘛那明年9月的時候新開學的時候不管是國小、國中、高中我們的本土就是我們的國家語言發展的師資都是足夠的"},{"start":420.324,"end":439.249,"text":"全台灣各學校在試教的這個過程中一定會有老師那麼我們還服以直播共學這樣的一個制度所以整體而言有看到你這樣的制度但是重點在於是你的各師之除了這個米蘭語以外客語、原名語這些都足夠嗎?"},{"start":441.39,"end":461.807,"text":"這些還是有相關的問題,來,梁燕西。抱歉,打擾委員長。委員看到垂詢的部分,基本上實體實字的部分在局部的像原名語有42個語系,這個難免有一些比較細的部分會跟原名會做合作。目前我們準備的直播共學的老師也超過800位,所以可以在線上在當場的實體那一端有老師跟學生一起"},{"start":467.051,"end":485.196,"text":"那麼線上有優秀的竹語老師可以一起來附以教學。謝謝委員,謝謝。好,來,部長,我再請教。部長,就您這樣子看到,因為您是新任的文化部長,一個國家語言的發展跟培養,就你心目中認為,它到底是教育工作還是文化工作?"},{"start":486.509,"end":508.963,"text":"應該兩者都是吧因為我們從小那個戰後出生的孩子在推廣華語的過程中我覺得語言是一個蠻自然的東西然後它本身是越自然越好但是不應該用語言本身來前置所有的那個思想比如說我們推華語不准講台語等等我是經歷過這樣一個過程所以現在國家"},{"start":512.005,"end":514.266,"text":"我自己覺得今天走到這個地步是一個在文化上非常的平衡健康的狀態"},{"start":529.605,"end":556.707,"text":"我理解跟我也同意說相對來講所有的語言都是一個大家溝通的工具嘛可以溝通是最重要的對不對所以說在目前為止我自己看到的是說我們也不會說是因為獨尊哪一個語言而背棄哪一個語言那另外您剛剛也提到部長您剛剛也提到自然就是說大家使用這個習慣日久習慣成自然所以說這個語言用詞也會來做使用"},{"start":557.327,"end":584.896,"text":"是不是這樣?對,像譬如說最近黃仁勳他在台下講話的時候你發現他是用英文他夾雜台語他也試著講華語那就是一種語言嘛我覺得語言會隨著不同族群進來之後會修改那當然是一種文化譬如說日本統治台灣的時候台語就會加上那個一些那個等等譬如說台語的這打火機叫Light打其實很多人就講是說它其實就是日文的Light"},{"start":585.276,"end":614.556,"text":"對 對不對英文然後日文然後之後再變台語這樣的一個感覺所以語言它涵蓋的真的文化性是非常強大的所以希望我們的小孩子他可以懂多一點語言是蠻好的好那部長我請教不知道有沒有看到之前有一個新聞是有一個小學生小朋友的聯絡簿上面寫說鞋子不換估計是不行的結果老師把估計兩個字畫出來講說不要用中國的用語比較好"},{"start":615.436,"end":633.975,"text":"您怎麼看?我不太能想像這個老師這樣批我不太能想像因為在估計您會使用估計這個用詞嗎?我會啊因為我覺得就像我剛剛有講到說我們這一整代的人都是從小接受華語教育的所以我們的用字用語"},{"start":634.796,"end":636.257,"text":"所以部長您自己怎麼看有一些人也網路上有兩派論戰就覺得是說現在"},{"start":654.335,"end":673.337,"text":"中國大陸也好或說華人圈也好有一些用詞是兩岸交流之後大家越來越使用譬如說小鮮肉以前其實台灣如果說以真的來講我們台灣是沒有這樣的一個用法可能對岸用比較多但是現在好像大家習以為常甚至媒體報導都直接寫小鮮肉"},{"start":674.398,"end":679.303,"text":"您怎麼看這樣的一個狀況?閨密、碰瓷這些感覺好像也都是兩岸交流之後大家越來越使用的我剛剛必須強調文化是一個開放的而不是封閉的所以包括你說新住民來台灣"},{"start":699.321,"end":699.981,"text":"我剛一直強調文化是最自然的事情"},{"start":727.235,"end":754.304,"text":"同意其實本席之前有幸也擔任過地方的文化首長我那時候就一直強調一個概念就是文化就是一群人在一段時間裡面的習慣經過一段時間的熏陶變成是習慣成自然自然變文化而逐漸自然的形成所以說它絕對不是不用說去互相影響或排斥而是怎麼樣能夠融入讓所以一群人大家有一個集體的共識我想這才是文化的真諦跟本意是不是"},{"start":754.804,"end":757.605,"text":"應該沒有想要把之前的政府給推翻吧應該沒有吧"},{"start":782.025,"end":782.665,"text":"我們一起努力"}]}}}}