{"id":153675,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153675","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0d7b1f4370c473d5e9330261af7fedc579f99d17e212a4183d3daa592b5b2cb02c0accd11298d9845ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳菁徽","委員發言時間":"09:36:11 - 09:49:01","影片長度":"00:12:50","會議時間":"2024-06-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長就「廢棄物暫存量逐年攀升，廢棄物處理政策短中長程規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【6月5日及6日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-06","start_time":"2024-06-06T09:36:11+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-06T09:49:01+08:00","duration":770,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-20"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":306,"blocks":[["陳委員菁徽：（9時36分）謝謝主席，各位委員、各位官員早安，我也想請部長。"],["主席：請彭部長。"],["彭部長啓明：陳委員早。"],["陳委員菁徽：謝謝部長。剛剛有提到小朋友對於空污這樣子事關重大的影響，身為不孕症醫師，同時我也是不孕症病人，其實今年最新的期刊顯示空污也嚴重影響不孕症以及各種癌症，相關資料我再提供給您。昨天6月5日是世界環境日，我也想請問一下部長，環境部有什麼重要的宣示嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：我們要減少菸蒂，全國撿菸蒂的大聯盟成立。"],["陳委員菁徽：這樣子你們會不會覺得很適合跟衛福部一起配合？"],["彭部長啓明：有，昨天衛福部賈淑麗副署長有來，但是我們希望更多啦！昨天我們是跟文化部合作，未來應該會跟衛福部合作。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，昨天是世界環境日，前天6月4日環境部發了一則臉書，表示會持續協助地方政府妥善處理垃圾問題，可是我覺得很疑惑，因為你們的標題是寫「焚化為主，掩埋為輔」，以此做為slogan。剛剛已經有多位委員反映空污的問題，為什麼我們還要再把「焚化為主」這件事情特別來做強調？"],["彭部長啓明：其實是針對資源回收完的、沒有辦法變成回收的垃圾去做焚化的處理，一年大概是六百多萬噸。"],["陳委員菁徽：但針對源頭的話，剛剛也提到了，其實減少垃圾遠比後面的處理還重要對吧？"],["彭部長啓明：對，其實我們回收的比例本來就很高，只是真的沒有辦法回收之後，只好以焚化來處理啦！"],["陳委員菁徽：針對這個slogan，如果可以給一點建議的話，當然還是從源頭管理才是最主要的，接下來才是以焚化為主、掩埋為輔嘛！"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["陳委員菁徽：當然今天我們也有討論廢棄物，可是我們從100年到112年，全國一般廢棄物總生產量是每年都在創新高，所以平均每人每日的一般廢棄物產生量，從0.8公斤到現在的1.359公斤。剛剛一直講到源頭管理，你想要跟很多協力廠商做配合等等，從100年到112年，這樣子的源頭管理成效到底如何？問題出在哪裡？反而是年年都在增加啊！"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，其實從這裡面你可以看得出來，回收之後的資源垃圾量也增加很多，然後一般垃圾量也在增加，其實最主要是一般垃圾量，也就是國人習慣的改變，當然我不能推給國人生活習慣改變，其實算法是一個很大的問題。"],["陳委員菁徽：你覺得最主要是哪一個習慣在改變？"],["彭部長啓明：網購。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以增加的是包裝？"],["彭部長啓明：包括包裝、外送等等的生活型態的改變、外食的改變，在這幾年改得特別嚴重，但其實最大的一筆還是所謂算法的改變。報告委員，其實這裡面包含我們原來把一般公司的員工廢棄物，就是員工吃飯造成的廢棄物，以前都是算成事業廢棄物，現在都算進來一般廢棄物了，然後還有我們把包含……"],["陳委員菁徽：可是不管是一般廢棄物或是事業廢棄物，各種廢棄物都升高。"],["彭部長啓明：基本上我們以前沒有算成我們的，所以我們把那個算進來，我們算法算得更精準，所以就升高了，這個才是現實。"],["陳委員菁徽：那也給您看一下，因為0403地震的關係，所以大家的手機都有收到這個訊息，大家都知道我們的玉山變矮了，變矮5公分，這是一個地質的現象，但是就有很多新聞標題寫說玉山變矮了，可是各地的垃圾山反而一直在長高。現在中南部的情況很嚴重，剛剛也有委員提到，因為有一些垃圾場鄰近於水源，比如說雲林、臺南、南投等等的，還有可能會造成水源的污染。請問部長，對於這樣子有什麼解方或是想法嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：我有兩個，一個是傳統的垃圾山，我們傳統舊的垃圾山，現在大概都有把它掩埋起來，然後都有做一些處理，當然還是有一些有問題，我必須承認，但是委員剛剛這張圖是暫置場，等於它還是要拿去燒的……"],["陳委員菁徽：對。"],["彭部長啓明：但是這個處理得應該沒有很好，應該把它打包起來，不會有這種惡臭飄散或是火災。"],["陳委員菁徽：好。當然剛剛有提到說，我們看到環境部2023年永續發展的目標，自願檢視報告中，短期的策略是2023到2027減量回收及資源循環推動計畫，這個短期目標要怎麼樣做到減量回收？因為上一任的部長有做到，我們全臺灣有42個市場有在推禁止用一次性的塑膠袋，像這樣子的政策，你會想要把一些政策再做擴大或是延續，把一些政策收起來嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，不會的，但是我也必須說，我們環境部過去在推動，在大的賣場都很成功，塑膠袋都要花錢買，最後一哩路就是市場，但是市場跟每個民眾都有關，所以我跟我同事討論之後，大概我們希望用別的方式，希望由文化改變的方式、習慣改變的方式。因為報告委員，我們其實推的時候，很多媒體就會說「你看你看又要收錢了，生活多麼不便，我買個菜、買個魚都不能用塑膠袋，我很不方便」，這個負面的聲音一直出來，但是我們覺得其實國外就是慢慢這樣在進行，我們也沒有限制，包含生鮮的部分還是可以用，只不過要減量。"],["陳委員菁徽：這部分其實您想，之前環境部當初推不提供一次性餐具等等，也是有非常多人抱怨，但是現在大家都已經習慣了，所以其實部長您只要下定決心就可以了。"],["彭部長啓明：那委員也要支持我，這個要大家一起來支持，因為我們有時候遭遇到大家說我很不方便，他只要訪問幾個婆婆媽媽說「你以後去市場買菜沒有塑膠袋怎麼辦」，那負面的聲音就會湧到我們這邊來……"],["陳委員菁徽：好，我們會支持部長。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝。"],["陳委員菁徽：這個是環境部小編，我不知道這個數據，當然我還會再詳查這個數據是哪裡來的，但是他說每年投入90億來做源頭管理跟資源回收，可是民間團體綠色和平其實也有去拜訪您，也有拜訪我們許許多多的委員，它計算7年的平均，在垃圾末端處理每年平均是17億，可是源頭管理才0.8億，竟然連1億都不到，用在比如說之前環境部在推的、署長也非常熟的禁限用一次性用品、推廣循環杯等等，其實源頭跟末端的處理，我們花的預算整整差距22倍，所以這樣子的比重是不是應該要去做調整？因為處理垃圾的預算分配有問題嘛，你源頭管理是不是應該要更加提高才對？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，這個0.8億是我們環境部的預算，這個90億應該是包含了資源回收等等基金的預算……"],["陳委員菁徽：所以我們資源回收一年是花89.2億耶？"],["賴署長瑩瑩：對，跟委員報告，因為它有信託基金跟非營業基金，我們現在有公告14項資源回收處理業，我們都會進行補貼，讓我們的塑膠品還有電器能夠回收。"],["陳委員菁徽：是，我覺得這個方向是對的。最後，我們也想問一下，2050年淨零碳排入法是長久以來國發會幫我們制定的一個目標，可是我們看數據，30年以來我們的碳排放量從1992年的1.32億公噸一直到今天是2.75億噸，根本是翻倍成長，您對於2050淨零碳排的目標還樂觀嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：說真的不樂觀，我不是說臺灣不樂觀，全世界都不樂觀，那臺灣我覺得挑戰更大，所以這一定要彎道超車，這個就是我願意來接這份工作的原因。所以委員其實這個數字，我自己是非常積極想要做這個事……"],["陳委員菁徽：謝謝部長今天吃了誠實豆沙包，所以你勇於承擔，很感動。"],["彭部長啓明：因為這件事情是要國人生活的改變，所以我們包含對於能源的概念都要改變很大……"],["陳委員菁徽：所以你會幫自己設定一點點短期的目標，比如說我們的碳排量可以稍微趨緩，這樣子的目標嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：基本上要把我們現在所有的能源結構跟我們的能源供給以及我們的需求，都要把它公布出來，讓大家很清楚知道，我們不能夠用原來的方式，例如說，我們都要用發展那麼多的AI的機器，那個耗電量就比平常的多了那麼多，我們需要這樣的產業嗎？"],["陳委員菁徽：對，所以今天本席也提供您一個想法，因為淨零轉型有12個關鍵的戰略，其中一個是碳捕捉技術的利用跟封存，而這一點冰島做得非常好，因為他們一年可以移除3萬6,000噸的二氧化碳，大約等於8,600輛車子的碳排。所以當碳排是我們國家整個額外成本的時候，捕碳機就像我們的印鈔機一樣，環境部是不是有想要加入打造捕碳國家隊，然後會來規劃投入自主的發展，你有沒有這樣子的想法？這個是我為了上一頁，所以幫您一起想方法。"],["彭部長啓明：委員，全球都在關注這個碳捕捉，但是冰島它的天然條件特別好，水力特別好，還有地熱，它的電是排碳率很低的，所以在臺灣做這個就完全不適合，因為我們的電排碳係數很高，所以大家要一起努力。"],["陳委員菁徽：但是現在中油、台電都已經投身這樣的技術，我是很希望，因為之前我們也互相質詢過這個光電板、環評，很多都已經落到經濟部在主導，所以我當然也很希望支持部長，環境部在主導上也可以多一點。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，其實我們會積極地來跳脫原來大家設定的環境部的角色，我們主動地跟各部會協調……"],["陳委員菁徽：對，因為其實這方面您的專業知識一定是更豐富，您也應該要更投入相關技術的研發、補貼等等的。"],["彭部長啓明：這個主要是在國科會，那我們會跟國科會有一個跨平臺的小組來討論這個事情。"],["陳委員菁徽：好。最後稍微問一下很多民眾關心的議題，因為碳費這個議題已經吵了很久，但是定價一直都還沒有出來，我知道第三次審議會你們有聊到，你們最後的結論是說要自主管理，或者是說你們給它訂一個指定目標，我看最後的會議紀錄是這樣，7月還會再開第四次的審議會。"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["陳委員菁徽：但是國際的航空組織ICAO，它會想要訂降低航空公司的淨零目標，因為航空公司的碳排放占全球的排放量大約是2.1%，所以許多國人，因為他們會到鄰近的國家旅遊，所以他們會很關心說，你有沒有去關切ICAO他們大概制定的碳費會在多少？會不會影響到國人出遊的旅遊成本？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我們國籍的航空公司，特別是譬如說我們有一家國籍的航空公司，他們就做得非常的認真，已經開始在用所謂的生質燃料，在做這樣的事，它的碳排也有顯著的降低，在永續的指標都做得很好，但是現在搭飛機就屬於個人願意去加一點做成碳中和，至於航空公司這部分，我們會密切注意來確保他們的營收。"],["陳委員菁徽：好。我會和大家一起關切我們第四次審議會的結論。謝謝。"],["彭部長啓明：好。謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳菁徽委員的發言。","接下來請邱鎮軍委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":218,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-20","speakers":["黃秀芳","盧縣一","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","王正旭","賴惠員","牛煦庭","林淑芬","廖偉翔","洪申翰","劉建國","陳冠廷","林俊憲","陳瑩","葉元之","楊曜","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00:00:33,093\n謝謝主席各位委員各位官員早安我也想請部長請彭部長謝謝部長剛剛有提到小朋友對於空污這樣子事關重大的影響那身為不孕症醫師那同時我也是不孕症病人其實今年最新的期刊有顯示說空污也嚴重的影響不孕症以及各種癌症這個再提供給你\n\n2\n00:00:35,355 --> 00:00:55,897\n昨天6月5日是世界環境日,我也想請問一下部長,環境部有什麼重要的宣誓嗎?我們要減少淹地,全國減淹地的大聯盟成立。關於這樣子,你們會不會覺得很適合跟衛福部一起做配合?有昨天衛福部的賈淑莉副署長有來。\n\n3\n00:00:57,390 --> 00:01:25,146\n對,但是我們希望更多啦昨天我們是跟文化部合作那未來應該會跟衛福部合作好,所以昨天是世界環境日那前天呢6月4號的時候環境部發了一則臉書表示會持續協助地方政府妥善的處理垃圾問題可是我覺得很疑惑因為你的標題是寫焚化為主掩埋為輔作為這樣子的slogan\n\n4\n00:01:25,947 --> 00:01:34,567\n剛剛已經有多位委員反映空污的問題了所以為什麼我們還要再把焚化為主的這件事情特別來做強調呢?\n\n5\n00:01:36,069 --> 00:02:01,603\n這個其實是針對我們資源回收完的沒有辦法變成回收的這個所謂的垃圾去做焚化的處理所以大概就是一年大概是600多萬噸但源頭的話剛也提到了其實我們減少垃圾會遠比後面的處理還要重要對吧所以我們回收的比例其實本來就很高這只是真的沒有辦法回收之後只好當成焚化來處理\n\n6\n00:02:03,084 --> 00:02:22,344\n當然我覺得這個slogan如果可以給一點建議的話當然還是可以再從源頭管理才是最主要的接下來我們才是做分化為主掩埋為輔嘛那我們提到當然今天我們也討論廢棄物可是我們從100年到最新的112年全國一般的廢棄物\n\n7\n00:02:26,588 --> 00:02:52,479\n總生產量是每年都在創新高所以平均每人每日的一般廢棄物產生量從0.8到現在的1.359到底剛剛一直有講到說我們的這個源頭管理你想要跟很多協力廠商做配合等等的所以從100年到112年這樣子的源頭管理我們的成效到底如何\n\n8\n00:03:18,172 --> 00:03:19,814\n所以增加的是包裝\n\n9\n00:03:47,572 --> 00:03:59,766\n可是你不管是一般廢棄物或是各種廢棄物都是升高啊?基本上我們以前沒有算成我們的所以我們把那個算進來我們算法算得更精準所以就升高了這個才是現實啦\n\n10\n00:04:01,380 --> 00:04:23,642\n好那也給您看一下齁因為0403地震的關係所以大家手機都有收到這個訊息大家都知道說我們的玉山變矮了變矮5公分這是一個地質的現象但是呢這個就很多新聞標題是寫玉山變矮了可是各地的垃圾山反而一直在長高\n\n11\n00:04:24,643 --> 00:04:41,040\n現在中南部是很嚴重剛剛也有委員提到因為有一些垃圾場是臨近於水源比如說雲林、台南、南投等等的還有可能會造成水源的污染請問部長對於這樣子有什麼解方或是想法嗎?\n\n12\n00:04:42,061 --> 00:05:05,243\n委員有兩個一個是傳統的垃圾山我們傳統舊垃圾山現在大概處理的都有把它掩埋起來然後都有做一些處理當然還是有一些有問題啦我必須承認那但是這個委員看到這張圖是掩埋場就的佔治場等於是他還是在拿去燒的所以這個但是他這個處理的應該沒有很好他應該要把它打包起來不會有這種惡臭飄散或是火災啦\n\n13\n00:05:06,101 --> 00:05:23,483\n好那當然剛有提到說我們看到環境部2023年永續發展的目標自願檢視報告中短期的策略是2023到2027減量回收及資源循環推動計畫這個短期目標要怎麼樣做到減量回收因為\n\n14\n00:05:24,604 --> 00:05:42,265\n在上一任的部長他有做到說我們全臺灣有42個市場有在推禁止用一次性的塑膠袋像這樣子的政策你會有想要把一些政策再做擴大或是延續把一些政策收起來嗎?\n\n15\n00:05:43,394 --> 00:06:06,201\n報告委員不會的齁但是我也必須說我們環境部在過去在推動在大的賣場都很成功那個都要花錢買最後一例就是市場但是市場跟每個民眾都有關所以我跟我同事討論之後其實大概我們希望用別的方式希望文化改變的方式習慣的改變方式因為我們報告委員我們其實推的時候\n\n16\n00:06:06,561 --> 00:06:08,603\n我們也沒有限制,包含生鮮的部分還是可以用只不過要減量\n\n17\n00:06:23,359 --> 00:06:36,850\n其實您想您當初推就之前環境部當初推一次性就不提供餐具等等也是有非常多人抱怨但現在大家都已經習慣了所以其實部長您只要下定決心就可以了\n\n18\n00:06:37,403 --> 00:06:53,118\n那委員要支持我喔這個要大家一起來支持啦但因為這個我們有時候遭遇到大家的說啊我很不方便他只要訪問幾個婆婆媽媽說你以後市場沒有垃圾袋你怎麼塑膠袋你怎麼辦那這個負面的聲音就會湧到我們這邊來好我們會支持部長\n\n19\n00:06:54,258 --> 00:07:09,628\n這個是環境部小編我不知道這個數據當然我還會再詳查這個數據是哪裡來但是他說每年投入90億來做源頭管理跟資源回收可是呢這個綠色和平民團其實他也有去拜訪您\n\n20\n00:07:10,188 --> 00:07:38,346\n也有拜訪我們許許多多的委員他計算7年的平均在垃圾末端處理每年平均是17億可是源頭管理才0.8億竟然連1億都不到用在比如說之前環境部在推的就是署長也非常熟的近現用一次性用品推廣循環杯等等其實源頭跟末端處理我們花的預算是整整差距22倍\n\n21\n00:07:39,927 --> 00:07:59,815\n所以這樣子的比重是不是應該要去做調整因為處理垃圾預算分配有問題嘛你源頭管理是不是應該要更加提高才對報委員這個0.81是我們環境部的預算那這個90億應該是包含了包含資源回收等等的包含基金的等等的預算所以我們資源回收一年是花89.2\n\n22\n00:08:02,216 --> 00:08:16,383\n對,他是有那個根本報告就是他有信託基因跟肺炎基因那我們現在就是有公告14項他進了處理業都是我們都會進行補貼好讓我們的塑膠瓶還有這個電器能夠回收是是是我覺得方向是對的那\n\n23\n00:08:17,563 --> 00:08:42,572\n最後我們也想問一下我們2050年淨零碳排入法是一個長久以來國發會幫我們制定的目標可是我們看數據30年以來我們從1992年的1.32億公噸碳排放一直到今天是2.75億噸根本是翻倍成長您對於2050淨零碳排的目標還樂觀嗎?\n\n24\n00:08:44,974 --> 00:08:45,795\n謝謝部長今天吃了誠實豆沙包\n\n25\n00:09:04,546 --> 00:09:06,128\n你會幫自己設定一點點短期的目標比如說我們可以稍微趨緩\n\n26\n00:09:37,881 --> 00:10:04,562\n所以今天本席也提供您一個想法因為我們近臨轉型有12個關鍵的戰略其中一個是碳捕捉的技術利用跟封存而這一點冰島做得非常好因為他們一年可以移出36000噸的二氧化碳大約是等於8600輛車子的碳排所以當碳排是我們國家整個額外成本的時候補碳機就像我們的印鈔機一樣環境部是不是有想要加入這樣子\n\n27\n00:10:05,743 --> 00:10:35,138\n打造補碳國家隊然後來規劃投入自主的發展你有沒有這樣子的想法這個是我為了上一頁所以幫您一起想方法我們這個在全球都在關注這個碳補桌但是冰島它這個天然條件特別好水力特別好還有地熱所以它的電是排炭力很低的所以在臺灣做這個就完全不合因為我們的電排炭係數很高所以大家要一起努力\n\n28\n00:10:36,018 --> 00:10:55,563\n但是現在您對於這個中油啊臺電啊都已經投身這樣子的技術了我是很希望因為之前我們也互相質詢過這個光電板啊環評很多都已經落到經濟部在主導所以我當然也很希望支持部長在環境部的主導上也可以多一點\n\n29\n00:10:56,723 --> 00:11:19,478\n對,幫我委員這個其實我們會積極的來跳脫原來大家設定的環境部的角色我們主動的跟各部會來協調對,因為其實這方面您的專業知識一定是更豐富嘛您也應該要更投入相關研發技術補貼等等的對,這個主要是在國科會啦那我們會跟國科會有一個跨平台的小組來討論這個事情\n\n30\n00:11:21,071 --> 00:11:41,406\n最後稍微問一下很多民眾關心的議題因為碳費這個議題已經吵了很久但是定價一直都還沒有出來那我知道說第三次審議會你們有聊到你們最後的結論是說要自主管理或者是說你們給他定一個指定目標我看最後的會議記錄是這樣7月還會再開第4次的審議會\n\n31\n00:11:44,588 --> 00:12:05,788\n但是呢國際的航空組織ICAO他會想要定降低航空公司的淨零目標因為航空公司的碳排放在全球的排放量大約是2.1%所以許多國人因為他們會在鄰近的國家旅遊所以他們會很關心說這個您有沒有去\n\n32\n00:12:07,290 --> 00:12:24,747\n關切這個ICO他們大概制定的碳費會在多少那會不會影響到國人出遊的那個成本旅遊成本好報偉那個我們我們國籍的航空公司特別是就是說我們有一家國籍航空公司他們就做得非常的認真他的已經\n\n33\n00:12:25,427 --> 00:12:25,868\n陳菁徽委員的發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6375\t33093\t謝謝主席各位委員各位官員早安我也想請部長請彭部長謝謝部長剛剛有提到小朋友對於空污這樣子事關重大的影響那身為不孕症醫師那同時我也是不孕症病人其實今年最新的期刊有顯示說空污也嚴重的影響不孕症以及各種癌症這個再提供給你\n35355\t55897\t昨天6月5日是世界環境日,我也想請問一下部長,環境部有什麼重要的宣誓嗎?我們要減少淹地,全國減淹地的大聯盟成立。關於這樣子,你們會不會覺得很適合跟衛福部一起做配合?有昨天衛福部的賈淑莉副署長有來。\n57390\t85146\t對,但是我們希望更多啦昨天我們是跟文化部合作那未來應該會跟衛福部合作好,所以昨天是世界環境日那前天呢6月4號的時候環境部發了一則臉書表示會持續協助地方政府妥善的處理垃圾問題可是我覺得很疑惑因為你的標題是寫焚化為主掩埋為輔作為這樣子的slogan\n85947\t94567\t剛剛已經有多位委員反映空污的問題了所以為什麼我們還要再把焚化為主的這件事情特別來做強調呢?\n96069\t121603\t這個其實是針對我們資源回收完的沒有辦法變成回收的這個所謂的垃圾去做焚化的處理所以大概就是一年大概是600多萬噸但源頭的話剛也提到了其實我們減少垃圾會遠比後面的處理還要重要對吧所以我們回收的比例其實本來就很高這只是真的沒有辦法回收之後只好當成焚化來處理\n123084\t142344\t當然我覺得這個slogan如果可以給一點建議的話當然還是可以再從源頭管理才是最主要的接下來我們才是做分化為主掩埋為輔嘛那我們提到當然今天我們也討論廢棄物可是我們從100年到最新的112年全國一般的廢棄物\n146588\t172479\t總生產量是每年都在創新高所以平均每人每日的一般廢棄物產生量從0.8到現在的1.359到底剛剛一直有講到說我們的這個源頭管理你想要跟很多協力廠商做配合等等的所以從100年到112年這樣子的源頭管理我們的成效到底如何\n173319\t197432\t網購\n198172\t199814\t所以增加的是包裝\n227572\t239766\t可是你不管是一般廢棄物或是各種廢棄物都是升高啊?基本上我們以前沒有算成我們的所以我們把那個算進來我們算法算得更精準所以就升高了這個才是現實啦\n241380\t263642\t好那也給您看一下齁因為0403地震的關係所以大家手機都有收到這個訊息大家都知道說我們的玉山變矮了變矮5公分這是一個地質的現象但是呢這個就很多新聞標題是寫玉山變矮了可是各地的垃圾山反而一直在長高\n264643\t281040\t現在中南部是很嚴重剛剛也有委員提到因為有一些垃圾場是臨近於水源比如說雲林、台南、南投等等的還有可能會造成水源的污染請問部長對於這樣子有什麼解方或是想法嗎?\n282061\t305243\t委員有兩個一個是傳統的垃圾山我們傳統舊垃圾山現在大概處理的都有把它掩埋起來然後都有做一些處理當然還是有一些有問題啦我必須承認那但是這個委員看到這張圖是掩埋場就的佔治場等於是他還是在拿去燒的所以這個但是他這個處理的應該沒有很好他應該要把它打包起來不會有這種惡臭飄散或是火災啦\n306101\t323483\t好 那當然剛有提到說我們看到環境部2023年永續發展的目標自願檢視報告中短期的策略是2023到2027減量回收及資源循環推動計畫這個短期目標要怎麼樣做到減量回收因為\n324604\t342265\t在上一任的部長他有做到說我們全臺灣有42個市場有在推禁止用一次性的塑膠袋像這樣子的政策你會有想要把一些政策再做擴大或是延續把一些政策收起來嗎?\n343394\t366201\t報告委員不會的齁但是我也必須說我們環境部在過去在推動在大的賣場都很成功那個都要花錢買最後一例就是市場但是市場跟每個民眾都有關所以我跟我同事討論之後其實大概我們希望用別的方式希望文化改變的方式習慣的改變方式因為我們報告委員我們其實推的時候\n366561\t368603\t我們也沒有限制,包含生鮮的部分還是可以用只不過要減量\n383359\t396850\t其實您想您當初推就之前環境部當初推一次性就不提供餐具等等也是有非常多人抱怨但現在大家都已經習慣了所以其實部長您只要下定決心就可以了\n397403\t413118\t那委員要支持我喔這個要大家一起來支持啦但因為這個我們有時候遭遇到大家的說啊我很不方便他只要訪問幾個婆婆媽媽說你以後市場沒有垃圾袋你怎麼塑膠袋你怎麼辦那這個負面的聲音就會湧到我們這邊來好我們會支持部長\n414258\t429628\t這個是環境部小編我不知道這個數據當然我還會再詳查這個數據是哪裡來但是他說每年投入90億來做源頭管理跟資源回收可是呢這個綠色和平民團其實他也有去拜訪您\n430188\t458346\t也有拜訪我們許許多多的委員他計算7年的平均在垃圾末端處理每年平均是17億可是源頭管理才0.8億竟然連1億都不到用在比如說之前環境部在推的就是署長也非常熟的近現用一次性用品推廣循環杯等等其實源頭跟末端處理我們花的預算是整整差距22倍\n459927\t479815\t所以這樣子的比重是不是應該要去做調整因為處理垃圾預算分配有問題嘛你源頭管理是不是應該要更加提高才對報委員這個0.81是我們環境部的預算那這個90億應該是包含了包含資源回收等等的包含基金的等等的預算所以我們資源回收一年是花89.2\n482216\t496383\t對,他是有那個根本報告就是他有信託基因跟肺炎基因那我們現在就是有公告14項他進了處理業都是我們都會進行補貼好讓我們的塑膠瓶還有這個電器能夠回收是是是我覺得方向是對的那\n497563\t522572\t最後我們也想問一下我們2050年淨零碳排入法是一個長久以來國發會幫我們制定的目標可是我們看數據30年以來我們從1992年的1.32億公噸碳排放一直到今天是2.75億噸根本是翻倍成長您對於2050淨零碳排的目標還樂觀嗎?\n524974\t525795\t謝謝部長今天吃了誠實豆沙包\n544546\t546128\t你會幫自己設定一點點短期的目標比如說我們可以稍微趨緩\n559360\t577841\t⋯⋯⋯\n577881\t604562\t所以今天本席也提供您一個想法因為我們近臨轉型有12個關鍵的戰略其中一個是碳捕捉的技術利用跟封存而這一點冰島做得非常好因為他們一年可以移出36000噸的二氧化碳大約是等於8600輛車子的碳排所以當碳排是我們國家整個額外成本的時候補碳機就像我們的印鈔機一樣環境部是不是有想要加入這樣子\n605743\t635138\t打造補碳國家隊然後來規劃投入自主的發展你有沒有這樣子的想法這個是我為了上一頁所以幫您一起想方法我們這個在全球都在關注這個碳補桌但是冰島它這個天然條件特別好水力特別好還有地熱所以它的電是排炭力很低的所以在臺灣做這個就完全不合因為我們的電排炭係數很高所以大家要一起努力\n636018\t655563\t但是現在您對於這個中油啊臺電啊都已經投身這樣子的技術了我是很希望因為之前我們也互相質詢過這個光電板啊環評很多都已經落到經濟部在主導所以我當然也很希望支持部長在環境部的主導上也可以多一點\n656723\t679478\t對,幫我委員這個其實我們會積極的來跳脫原來大家設定的環境部的角色我們主動的跟各部會來協調對,因為其實這方面您的專業知識一定是更豐富嘛您也應該要更投入相關研發技術補貼等等的對,這個主要是在國科會啦那我們會跟國科會有一個跨平台的小組來討論這個事情\n681071\t701406\t最後稍微問一下很多民眾關心的議題因為碳費這個議題已經吵了很久但是定價一直都還沒有出來那我知道說第三次審議會你們有聊到你們最後的結論是說要自主管理或者是說你們給他定一個指定目標我看最後的會議記錄是這樣7月還會再開第4次的審議會\n704588\t725788\t但是呢國際的航空組織ICAO他會想要定降低航空公司的淨零目標因為航空公司的碳排放在全球的排放量大約是2.1%所以許多國人因為他們會在鄰近的國家旅遊所以他們會很關心說這個您有沒有去\n727290\t744747\t關切這個ICO他們大概制定的碳費會在多少那會不會影響到國人出遊的那個成本旅遊成本好報偉那個我們我們國籍的航空公司特別是就是說我們有一家國籍航空公司他們就做得非常的認真他的已經\n745427\t745868\t陳菁徽委員的發言\n","txt":"謝謝主席各位委員各位官員早安我也想請部長請彭部長謝謝部長剛剛有提到小朋友對於空污這樣子事關重大的影響那身為不孕症醫師那同時我也是不孕症病人其實今年最新的期刊有顯示說空污也嚴重的影響不孕症以及各種癌症這個再提供給你\n昨天6月5日是世界環境日,我也想請問一下部長,環境部有什麼重要的宣誓嗎?我們要減少淹地,全國減淹地的大聯盟成立。關於這樣子,你們會不會覺得很適合跟衛福部一起做配合?有昨天衛福部的賈淑莉副署長有來。\n對,但是我們希望更多啦昨天我們是跟文化部合作那未來應該會跟衛福部合作好,所以昨天是世界環境日那前天呢6月4號的時候環境部發了一則臉書表示會持續協助地方政府妥善的處理垃圾問題可是我覺得很疑惑因為你的標題是寫焚化為主掩埋為輔作為這樣子的slogan\n剛剛已經有多位委員反映空污的問題了所以為什麼我們還要再把焚化為主的這件事情特別來做強調呢?\n這個其實是針對我們資源回收完的沒有辦法變成回收的這個所謂的垃圾去做焚化的處理所以大概就是一年大概是600多萬噸但源頭的話剛也提到了其實我們減少垃圾會遠比後面的處理還要重要對吧所以我們回收的比例其實本來就很高這只是真的沒有辦法回收之後只好當成焚化來處理\n當然我覺得這個slogan如果可以給一點建議的話當然還是可以再從源頭管理才是最主要的接下來我們才是做分化為主掩埋為輔嘛那我們提到當然今天我們也討論廢棄物可是我們從100年到最新的112年全國一般的廢棄物\n總生產量是每年都在創新高所以平均每人每日的一般廢棄物產生量從0.8到現在的1.359到底剛剛一直有講到說我們的這個源頭管理你想要跟很多協力廠商做配合等等的所以從100年到112年這樣子的源頭管理我們的成效到底如何\n網購\n所以增加的是包裝\n可是你不管是一般廢棄物或是各種廢棄物都是升高啊?基本上我們以前沒有算成我們的所以我們把那個算進來我們算法算得更精準所以就升高了這個才是現實啦\n好那也給您看一下齁因為0403地震的關係所以大家手機都有收到這個訊息大家都知道說我們的玉山變矮了變矮5公分這是一個地質的現象但是呢這個就很多新聞標題是寫玉山變矮了可是各地的垃圾山反而一直在長高\n現在中南部是很嚴重剛剛也有委員提到因為有一些垃圾場是臨近於水源比如說雲林、台南、南投等等的還有可能會造成水源的污染請問部長對於這樣子有什麼解方或是想法嗎?\n委員有兩個一個是傳統的垃圾山我們傳統舊垃圾山現在大概處理的都有把它掩埋起來然後都有做一些處理當然還是有一些有問題啦我必須承認那但是這個委員看到這張圖是掩埋場就的佔治場等於是他還是在拿去燒的所以這個但是他這個處理的應該沒有很好他應該要把它打包起來不會有這種惡臭飄散或是火災啦\n好 那當然剛有提到說我們看到環境部2023年永續發展的目標自願檢視報告中短期的策略是2023到2027減量回收及資源循環推動計畫這個短期目標要怎麼樣做到減量回收因為\n在上一任的部長他有做到說我們全臺灣有42個市場有在推禁止用一次性的塑膠袋像這樣子的政策你會有想要把一些政策再做擴大或是延續把一些政策收起來嗎?\n報告委員不會的齁但是我也必須說我們環境部在過去在推動在大的賣場都很成功那個都要花錢買最後一例就是市場但是市場跟每個民眾都有關所以我跟我同事討論之後其實大概我們希望用別的方式希望文化改變的方式習慣的改變方式因為我們報告委員我們其實推的時候\n我們也沒有限制,包含生鮮的部分還是可以用只不過要減量\n其實您想您當初推就之前環境部當初推一次性就不提供餐具等等也是有非常多人抱怨但現在大家都已經習慣了所以其實部長您只要下定決心就可以了\n那委員要支持我喔這個要大家一起來支持啦但因為這個我們有時候遭遇到大家的說啊我很不方便他只要訪問幾個婆婆媽媽說你以後市場沒有垃圾袋你怎麼塑膠袋你怎麼辦那這個負面的聲音就會湧到我們這邊來好我們會支持部長\n這個是環境部小編我不知道這個數據當然我還會再詳查這個數據是哪裡來但是他說每年投入90億來做源頭管理跟資源回收可是呢這個綠色和平民團其實他也有去拜訪您\n也有拜訪我們許許多多的委員他計算7年的平均在垃圾末端處理每年平均是17億可是源頭管理才0.8億竟然連1億都不到用在比如說之前環境部在推的就是署長也非常熟的近現用一次性用品推廣循環杯等等其實源頭跟末端處理我們花的預算是整整差距22倍\n所以這樣子的比重是不是應該要去做調整因為處理垃圾預算分配有問題嘛你源頭管理是不是應該要更加提高才對報委員這個0.81是我們環境部的預算那這個90億應該是包含了包含資源回收等等的包含基金的等等的預算所以我們資源回收一年是花89.2\n對,他是有那個根本報告就是他有信託基因跟肺炎基因那我們現在就是有公告14項他進了處理業都是我們都會進行補貼好讓我們的塑膠瓶還有這個電器能夠回收是是是我覺得方向是對的那\n最後我們也想問一下我們2050年淨零碳排入法是一個長久以來國發會幫我們制定的目標可是我們看數據30年以來我們從1992年的1.32億公噸碳排放一直到今天是2.75億噸根本是翻倍成長您對於2050淨零碳排的目標還樂觀嗎?\n謝謝部長今天吃了誠實豆沙包\n你會幫自己設定一點點短期的目標比如說我們可以稍微趨緩\n⋯⋯⋯\n所以今天本席也提供您一個想法因為我們近臨轉型有12個關鍵的戰略其中一個是碳捕捉的技術利用跟封存而這一點冰島做得非常好因為他們一年可以移出36000噸的二氧化碳大約是等於8600輛車子的碳排所以當碳排是我們國家整個額外成本的時候補碳機就像我們的印鈔機一樣環境部是不是有想要加入這樣子\n打造補碳國家隊然後來規劃投入自主的發展你有沒有這樣子的想法這個是我為了上一頁所以幫您一起想方法我們這個在全球都在關注這個碳補桌但是冰島它這個天然條件特別好水力特別好還有地熱所以它的電是排炭力很低的所以在臺灣做這個就完全不合因為我們的電排炭係數很高所以大家要一起努力\n但是現在您對於這個中油啊臺電啊都已經投身這樣子的技術了我是很希望因為之前我們也互相質詢過這個光電板啊環評很多都已經落到經濟部在主導所以我當然也很希望支持部長在環境部的主導上也可以多一點\n對,幫我委員這個其實我們會積極的來跳脫原來大家設定的環境部的角色我們主動的跟各部會來協調對,因為其實這方面您的專業知識一定是更豐富嘛您也應該要更投入相關研發技術補貼等等的對,這個主要是在國科會啦那我們會跟國科會有一個跨平台的小組來討論這個事情\n最後稍微問一下很多民眾關心的議題因為碳費這個議題已經吵了很久但是定價一直都還沒有出來那我知道說第三次審議會你們有聊到你們最後的結論是說要自主管理或者是說你們給他定一個指定目標我看最後的會議記錄是這樣7月還會再開第4次的審議會\n但是呢國際的航空組織ICAO他會想要定降低航空公司的淨零目標因為航空公司的碳排放在全球的排放量大約是2.1%所以許多國人因為他們會在鄰近的國家旅遊所以他們會很關心說這個您有沒有去\n關切這個ICO他們大概制定的碳費會在多少那會不會影響到國人出遊的那個成本旅遊成本好報偉那個我們我們國籍的航空公司特別是就是說我們有一家國籍航空公司他們就做得非常的認真他的已經\n陳菁徽委員的發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.375 --> 00:33.093\n謝謝主席各位委員各位官員早安我也想請部長請彭部長謝謝部長剛剛有提到小朋友對於空污這樣子事關重大的影響那身為不孕症醫師那同時我也是不孕症病人其實今年最新的期刊有顯示說空污也嚴重的影響不孕症以及各種癌症這個再提供給你\n\n00:35.355 --> 00:55.897\n昨天6月5日是世界環境日,我也想請問一下部長,環境部有什麼重要的宣誓嗎?我們要減少淹地,全國減淹地的大聯盟成立。關於這樣子,你們會不會覺得很適合跟衛福部一起做配合?有昨天衛福部的賈淑莉副署長有來。\n\n00:57.390 --> 01:25.146\n對,但是我們希望更多啦昨天我們是跟文化部合作那未來應該會跟衛福部合作好,所以昨天是世界環境日那前天呢6月4號的時候環境部發了一則臉書表示會持續協助地方政府妥善的處理垃圾問題可是我覺得很疑惑因為你的標題是寫焚化為主掩埋為輔作為這樣子的slogan\n\n01:25.947 --> 01:34.567\n剛剛已經有多位委員反映空污的問題了所以為什麼我們還要再把焚化為主的這件事情特別來做強調呢?\n\n01:36.069 --> 02:01.603\n這個其實是針對我們資源回收完的沒有辦法變成回收的這個所謂的垃圾去做焚化的處理所以大概就是一年大概是600多萬噸但源頭的話剛也提到了其實我們減少垃圾會遠比後面的處理還要重要對吧所以我們回收的比例其實本來就很高這只是真的沒有辦法回收之後只好當成焚化來處理\n\n02:03.084 --> 02:22.344\n當然我覺得這個slogan如果可以給一點建議的話當然還是可以再從源頭管理才是最主要的接下來我們才是做分化為主掩埋為輔嘛那我們提到當然今天我們也討論廢棄物可是我們從100年到最新的112年全國一般的廢棄物\n\n02:26.588 --> 02:52.479\n總生產量是每年都在創新高所以平均每人每日的一般廢棄物產生量從0.8到現在的1.359到底剛剛一直有講到說我們的這個源頭管理你想要跟很多協力廠商做配合等等的所以從100年到112年這樣子的源頭管理我們的成效到底如何\n\n03:18.172 --> 03:19.814\n所以增加的是包裝\n\n03:47.572 --> 03:59.766\n可是你不管是一般廢棄物或是各種廢棄物都是升高啊?基本上我們以前沒有算成我們的所以我們把那個算進來我們算法算得更精準所以就升高了這個才是現實啦\n\n04:01.380 --> 04:23.642\n好那也給您看一下齁因為0403地震的關係所以大家手機都有收到這個訊息大家都知道說我們的玉山變矮了變矮5公分這是一個地質的現象但是呢這個就很多新聞標題是寫玉山變矮了可是各地的垃圾山反而一直在長高\n\n04:24.643 --> 04:41.040\n現在中南部是很嚴重剛剛也有委員提到因為有一些垃圾場是臨近於水源比如說雲林、台南、南投等等的還有可能會造成水源的污染請問部長對於這樣子有什麼解方或是想法嗎?\n\n04:42.061 --> 05:05.243\n委員有兩個一個是傳統的垃圾山我們傳統舊垃圾山現在大概處理的都有把它掩埋起來然後都有做一些處理當然還是有一些有問題啦我必須承認那但是這個委員看到這張圖是掩埋場就的佔治場等於是他還是在拿去燒的所以這個但是他這個處理的應該沒有很好他應該要把它打包起來不會有這種惡臭飄散或是火災啦\n\n05:06.101 --> 05:23.483\n好那當然剛有提到說我們看到環境部2023年永續發展的目標自願檢視報告中短期的策略是2023到2027減量回收及資源循環推動計畫這個短期目標要怎麼樣做到減量回收因為\n\n05:24.604 --> 05:42.265\n在上一任的部長他有做到說我們全臺灣有42個市場有在推禁止用一次性的塑膠袋像這樣子的政策你會有想要把一些政策再做擴大或是延續把一些政策收起來嗎?\n\n05:43.394 --> 06:06.201\n報告委員不會的齁但是我也必須說我們環境部在過去在推動在大的賣場都很成功那個都要花錢買最後一例就是市場但是市場跟每個民眾都有關所以我跟我同事討論之後其實大概我們希望用別的方式希望文化改變的方式習慣的改變方式因為我們報告委員我們其實推的時候\n\n06:06.561 --> 06:08.603\n我們也沒有限制,包含生鮮的部分還是可以用只不過要減量\n\n06:23.359 --> 06:36.850\n其實您想您當初推就之前環境部當初推一次性就不提供餐具等等也是有非常多人抱怨但現在大家都已經習慣了所以其實部長您只要下定決心就可以了\n\n06:37.403 --> 06:53.118\n那委員要支持我喔這個要大家一起來支持啦但因為這個我們有時候遭遇到大家的說啊我很不方便他只要訪問幾個婆婆媽媽說你以後市場沒有垃圾袋你怎麼塑膠袋你怎麼辦那這個負面的聲音就會湧到我們這邊來好我們會支持部長\n\n06:54.258 --> 07:09.628\n這個是環境部小編我不知道這個數據當然我還會再詳查這個數據是哪裡來但是他說每年投入90億來做源頭管理跟資源回收可是呢這個綠色和平民團其實他也有去拜訪您\n\n07:10.188 --> 07:38.346\n也有拜訪我們許許多多的委員他計算7年的平均在垃圾末端處理每年平均是17億可是源頭管理才0.8億竟然連1億都不到用在比如說之前環境部在推的就是署長也非常熟的近現用一次性用品推廣循環杯等等其實源頭跟末端處理我們花的預算是整整差距22倍\n\n07:39.927 --> 07:59.815\n所以這樣子的比重是不是應該要去做調整因為處理垃圾預算分配有問題嘛你源頭管理是不是應該要更加提高才對報委員這個0.81是我們環境部的預算那這個90億應該是包含了包含資源回收等等的包含基金的等等的預算所以我們資源回收一年是花89.2\n\n08:02.216 --> 08:16.383\n對,他是有那個根本報告就是他有信託基因跟肺炎基因那我們現在就是有公告14項他進了處理業都是我們都會進行補貼好讓我們的塑膠瓶還有這個電器能夠回收是是是我覺得方向是對的那\n\n08:17.563 --> 08:42.572\n最後我們也想問一下我們2050年淨零碳排入法是一個長久以來國發會幫我們制定的目標可是我們看數據30年以來我們從1992年的1.32億公噸碳排放一直到今天是2.75億噸根本是翻倍成長您對於2050淨零碳排的目標還樂觀嗎?\n\n08:44.974 --> 08:45.795\n謝謝部長今天吃了誠實豆沙包\n\n09:04.546 --> 09:06.128\n你會幫自己設定一點點短期的目標比如說我們可以稍微趨緩\n\n09:37.881 --> 10:04.562\n所以今天本席也提供您一個想法因為我們近臨轉型有12個關鍵的戰略其中一個是碳捕捉的技術利用跟封存而這一點冰島做得非常好因為他們一年可以移出36000噸的二氧化碳大約是等於8600輛車子的碳排所以當碳排是我們國家整個額外成本的時候補碳機就像我們的印鈔機一樣環境部是不是有想要加入這樣子\n\n10:05.743 --> 10:35.138\n打造補碳國家隊然後來規劃投入自主的發展你有沒有這樣子的想法這個是我為了上一頁所以幫您一起想方法我們這個在全球都在關注這個碳補桌但是冰島它這個天然條件特別好水力特別好還有地熱所以它的電是排炭力很低的所以在臺灣做這個就完全不合因為我們的電排炭係數很高所以大家要一起努力\n\n10:36.018 --> 10:55.563\n但是現在您對於這個中油啊臺電啊都已經投身這樣子的技術了我是很希望因為之前我們也互相質詢過這個光電板啊環評很多都已經落到經濟部在主導所以我當然也很希望支持部長在環境部的主導上也可以多一點\n\n10:56.723 --> 11:19.478\n對,幫我委員這個其實我們會積極的來跳脫原來大家設定的環境部的角色我們主動的跟各部會來協調對,因為其實這方面您的專業知識一定是更豐富嘛您也應該要更投入相關研發技術補貼等等的對,這個主要是在國科會啦那我們會跟國科會有一個跨平台的小組來討論這個事情\n\n11:21.071 --> 11:41.406\n最後稍微問一下很多民眾關心的議題因為碳費這個議題已經吵了很久但是定價一直都還沒有出來那我知道說第三次審議會你們有聊到你們最後的結論是說要自主管理或者是說你們給他定一個指定目標我看最後的會議記錄是這樣7月還會再開第4次的審議會\n\n11:44.588 --> 12:05.788\n但是呢國際的航空組織ICAO他會想要定降低航空公司的淨零目標因為航空公司的碳排放在全球的排放量大約是2.1%所以許多國人因為他們會在鄰近的國家旅遊所以他們會很關心說這個您有沒有去\n\n12:07.290 --> 12:24.747\n關切這個ICO他們大概制定的碳費會在多少那會不會影響到國人出遊的那個成本旅遊成本好報偉那個我們我們國籍的航空公司特別是就是說我們有一家國籍航空公司他們就做得非常的認真他的已經\n\n12:25.427 --> 12:25.868\n陳菁徽委員的發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.375,"end":33.093,"text":"謝謝主席各位委員各位官員早安我也想請部長請彭部長謝謝部長剛剛有提到小朋友對於空污這樣子事關重大的影響那身為不孕症醫師那同時我也是不孕症病人其實今年最新的期刊有顯示說空污也嚴重的影響不孕症以及各種癌症這個再提供給你"},{"start":35.355,"end":55.897,"text":"昨天6月5日是世界環境日,我也想請問一下部長,環境部有什麼重要的宣誓嗎?我們要減少淹地,全國減淹地的大聯盟成立。關於這樣子,你們會不會覺得很適合跟衛福部一起做配合?有昨天衛福部的賈淑莉副署長有來。"},{"start":57.39,"end":85.146,"text":"對,但是我們希望更多啦昨天我們是跟文化部合作那未來應該會跟衛福部合作好,所以昨天是世界環境日那前天呢6月4號的時候環境部發了一則臉書表示會持續協助地方政府妥善的處理垃圾問題可是我覺得很疑惑因為你的標題是寫焚化為主掩埋為輔作為這樣子的slogan"},{"start":85.947,"end":94.567,"text":"剛剛已經有多位委員反映空污的問題了所以為什麼我們還要再把焚化為主的這件事情特別來做強調呢?"},{"start":96.069,"end":121.603,"text":"這個其實是針對我們資源回收完的沒有辦法變成回收的這個所謂的垃圾去做焚化的處理所以大概就是一年大概是600多萬噸但源頭的話剛也提到了其實我們減少垃圾會遠比後面的處理還要重要對吧所以我們回收的比例其實本來就很高這只是真的沒有辦法回收之後只好當成焚化來處理"},{"start":123.084,"end":142.344,"text":"當然我覺得這個slogan如果可以給一點建議的話當然還是可以再從源頭管理才是最主要的接下來我們才是做分化為主掩埋為輔嘛那我們提到當然今天我們也討論廢棄物可是我們從100年到最新的112年全國一般的廢棄物"},{"start":146.588,"end":172.479,"text":"總生產量是每年都在創新高所以平均每人每日的一般廢棄物產生量從0.8到現在的1.359到底剛剛一直有講到說我們的這個源頭管理你想要跟很多協力廠商做配合等等的所以從100年到112年這樣子的源頭管理我們的成效到底如何"},{"start":173.319,"end":197.432,"text":"網購"},{"start":198.172,"end":199.814,"text":"所以增加的是包裝"},{"start":227.572,"end":239.766,"text":"可是你不管是一般廢棄物或是各種廢棄物都是升高啊?基本上我們以前沒有算成我們的所以我們把那個算進來我們算法算得更精準所以就升高了這個才是現實啦"},{"start":241.38,"end":263.642,"text":"好那也給您看一下齁因為0403地震的關係所以大家手機都有收到這個訊息大家都知道說我們的玉山變矮了變矮5公分這是一個地質的現象但是呢這個就很多新聞標題是寫玉山變矮了可是各地的垃圾山反而一直在長高"},{"start":264.643,"end":281.04,"text":"現在中南部是很嚴重剛剛也有委員提到因為有一些垃圾場是臨近於水源比如說雲林、台南、南投等等的還有可能會造成水源的污染請問部長對於這樣子有什麼解方或是想法嗎?"},{"start":282.061,"end":305.243,"text":"委員有兩個一個是傳統的垃圾山我們傳統舊垃圾山現在大概處理的都有把它掩埋起來然後都有做一些處理當然還是有一些有問題啦我必須承認那但是這個委員看到這張圖是掩埋場就的佔治場等於是他還是在拿去燒的所以這個但是他這個處理的應該沒有很好他應該要把它打包起來不會有這種惡臭飄散或是火災啦"},{"start":306.101,"end":323.483,"text":"好 那當然剛有提到說我們看到環境部2023年永續發展的目標自願檢視報告中短期的策略是2023到2027減量回收及資源循環推動計畫這個短期目標要怎麼樣做到減量回收因為"},{"start":324.604,"end":342.265,"text":"在上一任的部長他有做到說我們全臺灣有42個市場有在推禁止用一次性的塑膠袋像這樣子的政策你會有想要把一些政策再做擴大或是延續把一些政策收起來嗎?"},{"start":343.394,"end":366.201,"text":"報告委員不會的齁但是我也必須說我們環境部在過去在推動在大的賣場都很成功那個都要花錢買最後一例就是市場但是市場跟每個民眾都有關所以我跟我同事討論之後其實大概我們希望用別的方式希望文化改變的方式習慣的改變方式因為我們報告委員我們其實推的時候"},{"start":366.561,"end":368.603,"text":"我們也沒有限制,包含生鮮的部分還是可以用只不過要減量"},{"start":383.359,"end":396.85,"text":"其實您想您當初推就之前環境部當初推一次性就不提供餐具等等也是有非常多人抱怨但現在大家都已經習慣了所以其實部長您只要下定決心就可以了"},{"start":397.403,"end":413.118,"text":"那委員要支持我喔這個要大家一起來支持啦但因為這個我們有時候遭遇到大家的說啊我很不方便他只要訪問幾個婆婆媽媽說你以後市場沒有垃圾袋你怎麼塑膠袋你怎麼辦那這個負面的聲音就會湧到我們這邊來好我們會支持部長"},{"start":414.258,"end":429.628,"text":"這個是環境部小編我不知道這個數據當然我還會再詳查這個數據是哪裡來但是他說每年投入90億來做源頭管理跟資源回收可是呢這個綠色和平民團其實他也有去拜訪您"},{"start":430.188,"end":458.346,"text":"也有拜訪我們許許多多的委員他計算7年的平均在垃圾末端處理每年平均是17億可是源頭管理才0.8億竟然連1億都不到用在比如說之前環境部在推的就是署長也非常熟的近現用一次性用品推廣循環杯等等其實源頭跟末端處理我們花的預算是整整差距22倍"},{"start":459.927,"end":479.815,"text":"所以這樣子的比重是不是應該要去做調整因為處理垃圾預算分配有問題嘛你源頭管理是不是應該要更加提高才對報委員這個0.81是我們環境部的預算那這個90億應該是包含了包含資源回收等等的包含基金的等等的預算所以我們資源回收一年是花89.2"},{"start":482.216,"end":496.383,"text":"對,他是有那個根本報告就是他有信託基因跟肺炎基因那我們現在就是有公告14項他進了處理業都是我們都會進行補貼好讓我們的塑膠瓶還有這個電器能夠回收是是是我覺得方向是對的那"},{"start":497.563,"end":522.572,"text":"最後我們也想問一下我們2050年淨零碳排入法是一個長久以來國發會幫我們制定的目標可是我們看數據30年以來我們從1992年的1.32億公噸碳排放一直到今天是2.75億噸根本是翻倍成長您對於2050淨零碳排的目標還樂觀嗎?"},{"start":524.974,"end":525.795,"text":"謝謝部長今天吃了誠實豆沙包"},{"start":544.546,"end":546.128,"text":"你會幫自己設定一點點短期的目標比如說我們可以稍微趨緩"},{"start":559.36,"end":577.841,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":577.881,"end":604.562,"text":"所以今天本席也提供您一個想法因為我們近臨轉型有12個關鍵的戰略其中一個是碳捕捉的技術利用跟封存而這一點冰島做得非常好因為他們一年可以移出36000噸的二氧化碳大約是等於8600輛車子的碳排所以當碳排是我們國家整個額外成本的時候補碳機就像我們的印鈔機一樣環境部是不是有想要加入這樣子"},{"start":605.743,"end":635.138,"text":"打造補碳國家隊然後來規劃投入自主的發展你有沒有這樣子的想法這個是我為了上一頁所以幫您一起想方法我們這個在全球都在關注這個碳補桌但是冰島它這個天然條件特別好水力特別好還有地熱所以它的電是排炭力很低的所以在臺灣做這個就完全不合因為我們的電排炭係數很高所以大家要一起努力"},{"start":636.018,"end":655.563,"text":"但是現在您對於這個中油啊臺電啊都已經投身這樣子的技術了我是很希望因為之前我們也互相質詢過這個光電板啊環評很多都已經落到經濟部在主導所以我當然也很希望支持部長在環境部的主導上也可以多一點"},{"start":656.723,"end":679.478,"text":"對,幫我委員這個其實我們會積極的來跳脫原來大家設定的環境部的角色我們主動的跟各部會來協調對,因為其實這方面您的專業知識一定是更豐富嘛您也應該要更投入相關研發技術補貼等等的對,這個主要是在國科會啦那我們會跟國科會有一個跨平台的小組來討論這個事情"},{"start":681.071,"end":701.406,"text":"最後稍微問一下很多民眾關心的議題因為碳費這個議題已經吵了很久但是定價一直都還沒有出來那我知道說第三次審議會你們有聊到你們最後的結論是說要自主管理或者是說你們給他定一個指定目標我看最後的會議記錄是這樣7月還會再開第4次的審議會"},{"start":704.588,"end":725.788,"text":"但是呢國際的航空組織ICAO他會想要定降低航空公司的淨零目標因為航空公司的碳排放在全球的排放量大約是2.1%所以許多國人因為他們會在鄰近的國家旅遊所以他們會很關心說這個您有沒有去"},{"start":727.29,"end":744.747,"text":"關切這個ICO他們大概制定的碳費會在多少那會不會影響到國人出遊的那個成本旅遊成本好報偉那個我們我們國籍的航空公司特別是就是說我們有一家國籍航空公司他們就做得非常的認真他的已經"},{"start":745.427,"end":745.868,"text":"陳菁徽委員的發言"}]}}}}