{"id":153703,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153703","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0d7b1f4370c473d56f0c63c8fd12bc9f9dbbe5275cafb4df8282b1d5b897dd1c67518d6a02a6d9265ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葛如鈞","委員發言時間":"10:22:42 - 10:36:42","影片長度":"00:14:00","會議時間":"2024-06-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請文化部部長李遠、教育部、原住民族委員會、客家委員會列席就「自信臺灣深根文化軟實力－『國家語言發展法』推動成效總檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【6月5日及6日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-06","start_time":"2024-06-06T10:22:42+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-06T10:36:42+08:00","duration":840,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-15"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":285,"blocks":[["葛委員如鈞：（10時22分）謝謝主席，有請文化部李遠部長以及交流司紀東陽代理司長。"],["主席：有請部長跟司長。"],["葛委員如鈞：部長早安，我已經說過你是我的偶像，我就不再說了。今天這個主題，國家語言發展法很重要，我也先稍微說一下，AI會是我們非常重要的武器跟工具，也希望我們可以善加利用。但是今天我還有另外一個更重要、十萬火急的議題要來跟您交流，5月22號質詢的時候曾經向你反映，我們政府機關內部好像有超人特攻隊，所以我們今天的主題就是超人特攻隊二，抄襲案件層出不窮，文化部近期其實就有兩件，一件就是臺文館的阿龍，已經被證實，當然我們也覺得有負責是不錯，但是希望這件事情不要再發生；但是我們還有另外一件事情，另外一個「抄人」事件，其實目前還想要瞭解一下後續的處理情形，就是巴黎文化奧運臺灣館的主視覺疑似抄襲了Apple的emoji，上一次質詢的時候，我們就要求文化部要針對這個emoji太過於類似蘋果的所謂表情符號，相關法律授權問題要在一週內以書面回復，現在一週的時間已經過去，請教一下部長，巴黎文化奧運臺灣館的主視覺emoji是否已向Apple的法律部門請求授權？"],["李部長遠：上次委員有提出質疑之後，雖然我們的設計師不認為他那個算抄襲，但是為了這個問題，他重新設計了，沒有另外收設計費，新的設計圖案，我想會後提供給委員看，完全不像。"],["葛委員如鈞：我們這裡得到的回應，說本案設計是全新繪製，不需要授權，然後也再請教部長，文化部回應本案為全新繪製，就是說他只是說：這個是我自己畫的，我沒有抄襲，如果你覺得很奇怪的話，我就重畫一個。這個真的……我覺得這種方式，我們還是要來瞭解一下，他說這個圖樣是全新繪製，因為我們記者會也已經開了，我們已經公布這個設計了，如果我們以後所有的設計師畫完、開完記者會，大家說不滿意，那就重畫、收回，我覺得這件事情也不是這樣。我先確認一下，設計師有沒有提出創作過程的證明說他是創新、他是全新繪製？或者請公證的第三方對本案進行抄襲鑑定，有沒有？"],["李部長遠：這個部分我們還沒有做，因為還沒有被確定他是抄襲嘛！所以我們沒辦法往下做。"],["葛委員如鈞：我想上一次質詢的時候部長就有說阿龍事件不要再發生，因為不要去單方面、片面相信、採信廠商的說詞，但這一次我們好像又相信廠商了。那我們再來看一下文化部對於設計理念的說明，文化部表示設計理念在世界通用的表情符號語言導入臺灣的「w」串連在一起，創意的核心是開創運用表情符號的新詮釋，而非創作表情符號。我幫您翻譯一下，文化部的意思是這個設計案的創意不在於畫表情符號，而在於運用表情符號。上一次質詢您的時候，您有一個回答說如果可以，你會自己畫一隻貓、一隻狗，我基本上是眼淚已經泛在眼眶，都快要掉下來，真的是覺得非常感動。但是現在文化部對於這個設計的回答，一下又說他的重點在於畫、在於運用，一下又說設計者自行繪製，然後等到自己有點搞不清楚狀況了，就說反正他會重做一個，然後不收錢。","我要再次強調，這次我提出這個案件的重點是表情符號的圖樣是有版權的，如果想要使用，就應該要依法律程序請求授權，如果有使用就大方承認有用，要參考，就大方承認有參考，對文化部來講，尊重原創的精神其實沒有這麼困難，結果我們得到文化部的神邏輯，一本正經地去講說兩個愛心疊在一起就是原創，那我把兩個賴清德疊在一起，就屬於我的原創嗎？這樣正好解決臺文館的問題，他們根本白道歉了，一隻阿龍是抄襲，兩隻阿龍疊在一起就變成原創，這可能會在臺灣設計界或全世界的設計界投下一顆震撼彈，要確認喔！這真的不是這樣。我想先確認一下，因為這是我們得到的回復，當然後續的處理是後續處理，我們待會會提到，我們先講這個是一個精神的問題，我們文化部要帶頭尊重版權，要有版權意識，我們也要有原創的精神跟意識。我先確認一下，因為我們今天這樣的對話都會影響臺灣未來的這些設計公司，作為設計人員原創的參考，請部長回答一下，兩顆愛心堆疊在一起，如果是學別人畫的，把兩顆學別人畫的愛心疊在一起，符合您所說的原創精神嗎？給您看一下，這是文化部的回應。"],["李部長遠：其實我回答不了，因為我跟不上所謂的emoji這個東西算不算……","我請次長來回答。"],["李次長靜慧：跟委員報告，在我們跟設計師溝通的過程裡面，因為像表情符號，它原本就是有各種不同版本，有Android系統、有Apple系統、有Google系統……"],["葛委員如鈞：我們上一次已經比較過了，這是高度相似於Apple系統的，Apple系統的emoji是有版權的。"],["李次長靜慧：對，如果我們單純……"],["葛委員如鈞：大家現在直接拿出iPhone來，你弄一個愛心出來就是長這個樣子。"],["李次長靜慧：如果我們單純使用一個愛心的話，那當然是各個有各種不同的版本……"],["葛委員如鈞：好，所以您的……"],["李次長靜慧：設計師是說他用他的創意的使用方法，這個部分我們是接受，可是我們也跟他提到說，這對於一般社會大眾來講，它還是會有一些誤解的地方，所以設計師就說在同樣的概念下，他會重新設計。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，謝謝您的回答。這不是對一般大眾而已，蘋果是現在全世界市值排名第二的公司，我們是要尊重蘋果，認定我們的比YA的手勢、比愛心到底是不是有嚴重地參考了它的圖像設計、漸層的設計，這個回答對臺灣的設計界非常重要，堆疊在一起就可以，您剛剛有說，單獨使用一顆就沒有問題，那使用兩顆呢？難道就可以排除抄襲的可能，就不用確認授權嗎？","再來我想問，文化部出資到巴黎設置文化場館，希望利用巴黎奧運的機會宣揚臺灣文化，我們用這樣子emoji、用比YA就代表臺灣文化了嗎？您有微笑我們就當作理解，我們就往下，其實這還真的只是一個開場而已。","我們來看還有一個更嚴重的問題，其實我真的不知道要怎麼問下去，這個案子是哪個單位主責的？文化部交流司兩度以書面回復，本案是文化部以臺法文化交流專案，這個專案破億，補助財團法人臺灣文化基金會，再由基金會去辦理這個設計案，回復的原文我直接放在投影片，請在座的各位看看，財團法人臺灣文化基金會，我們依據回復的結果，翻遍了所有的預算書跟公務單位的資料，結果完全查無此會，最後我們只能懷疑有一個名字相似的，由王時思次長擔任董事長的財團法人文化臺灣基金會，113年度文化部以公務預算補助該基金會3,500萬，文化臺灣，結果你們回復我們是臺灣文化，到底文化部是遇到詐騙集團，還是誇張到連自己補助哪一個財團法人都搞不清楚，請部長回應一下好不好？"],["李部長遠：據我瞭解，就等於是我們文化部另外設的一個基金會，就有點像我在臺北市的時候，我們的文化局有另外一個文化基金會……"],["葛委員如鈞：是、是、是，這個基金會我們知道……"],["李部長遠：它把預算……"],["葛委員如鈞：我們想要問的，部長不好意思打斷您，我們想要問的是明明是文化臺灣基金會，結果為什麼來函回復我們的都是在講臺灣文化基金會？到底是文化部忘記了，還是害怕想起來？我們立法委員索資，竟然公然回復錯誤的資訊，文化部的官員有沒有需要對此負責？我們真的是不想要把這種什麼黑箱啦、什麼國會調查權去套在這件事情上，但這是怎麼樣？你能不能回應一下？有沒有人需要負政治責任呢？"],["李部長遠：這個看起來是我們的錯誤，在回話中連這個都寫錯，我承認公文寫錯。"],["葛委員如鈞：這個錯誤還真的不只是單一事件，我們問了標案金額多少、何時何地開標、為什麼是這個廠商得標，結果愈問愈令人害怕，文化部竟然沒辦法清楚回答任何一個問題，整個開發流程充滿令人毛骨悚然的感受。根據文化部交流司的回復，因為這個主視覺案的採購金額未超過公告金額150萬，是由文化臺灣基金會自行尋找兩家廠商比價，事情又很剛好，兩家廠商中一家報價148萬500元，另外一家是139萬9,000元，最後是價低者得標。","到目前為止，跟部長報告，文化部都不願意告知此案的發包金額是多少，我們只能合理懷疑這個標案最後的發包金額就是149萬，剛好躲過政府採購法規定的150萬公告金額，整個網站就查不到這個設計案的資訊，請教部長，您認同這樣的作法嗎？低於公告金額150萬，整個案子就可以在檯面下進行嗎？"],["李部長遠：請次長講一下，因為憑良心講，我搞不懂這個。"],["李次長靜慧：跟委員報告，這是我們交流司的一個專案，至於這個採購的細節是不是容許我們會後用書面跟委員說明清楚？"],["葛委員如鈞：我們先講文化部本身是以身作則的，低於150萬的，你們也公開透明，但是文化基金會3,500萬的錢過去了，他們低於150萬就可以不用公開，我們也很想知道150萬可不可以拆成10個、拆成20個？那通通都不用公開啦！先在此請教部長，可不可以要求受文化部補助、捐助的財團法人必須落實政府資訊公開的責任，比照文化部將每一筆標案列表公布於網站上？您預計多久可以完成？有沒有機會？我們次長是這個基金會的董事長，司長也是這個基金會的董事，您預計多久可以完成這部分的討論？"],["李部長遠：我們先按照財團法人的規定辦理。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，謝謝，希望能夠有回復。主席，對不起！我再借一點時間，因為7月多就要去法國巴黎展出，現在已經6月初了，我們還是要趕快搞清楚，不然也不希望這個展出不順利，都希望順順利利。最後，關於本案的處置，文化部提到設計師主動表達修改主視覺的意願，而且還強調不加收任何費用，我先講我自己以前在設計學院教書，我看到這個案子是破億的專案，包裝門面只花100萬、百分之一的預算，我已經替這個設計師覺得很難過、替設計界覺得很難過，結果現在出了問題，設計師要修改還不加價、不給錢，或者他還要這樣、不知道到底是他怎麼樣，就是不用修改、修改不用錢。","對此我要表達，文化部應該作為表率，帶頭表達對創意的尊重，如果有民眾表示疑慮，文化部應該要主動釐清整個創作過程，只要文化部可以證實此案是原創設計，設計師完全不需要修改主視覺設計，我們要挺他。但是相反的，假如本案經證實可能涉及過度參考或抄襲，那也絕非設計師主動修改設計就可以解決，我們記者會也發了、新聞稿也發了、國際的發表也發了、各種po文也po了，事關國際的聲譽，我們就要採取補救措施，我們到底要跟廠商續約還是解約，也要追究啊！或者我建議文化部，直接去函跟蘋果公司的法務部門確認這個案子到底要不要經過授權，它如果說可以，我們就來用。我們質詢的重點絕對不是拗設計師針對主視覺去做免費的修改，我是反對這件事，有工作就要付錢，我們追求大是大非，要求釐清事件的真相。","我上次跟部長分享過，我看了潮浪群雄，是小莊的漫畫，提到明驥當年非常支持年輕人、非常支持原創，我們要保護跟扶持創作者，這個案子破1億，百分之一來做包裝跟設計，結果還出了這麼大的問題，我們絕對不能承受半點風險，我們只剩下一個多月的時間，希望部長在此案的後續處理一定要明快，才能透過巴黎奧運的機會讓全世界看到最好的臺灣，好不好？再次謝謝部長，我們一起為臺灣提升能見度做努力，謝謝。"],["李部長遠：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝葛如鈞委員，部長請回。在郭昱晴委員質詢完後，我們休息5分鐘。","接下來請陳秀寳委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":274,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-15","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","林倩綺","萬美玲","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","林俊憲","張啓楷","吳沛憶","范雲","吳春城","鄭天財Sra 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\"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 838.415, \"end\": 838.435, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,069 --> 00:00:21,950\n葛如鈞委員好,謝謝主席有請文化部李遠部長以及交流司紀東洋代理司長好,有請部長跟司長\n\n2\n00:00:25,050 --> 00:00:35,480\n早上好部長我已經說過你是我的偶像我就不再說了今天這個主題國家語言發展法很重要那我也先稍微說一下AI會是我們非常重要的\n\n3\n00:00:36,718 --> 00:00:37,318\n主題是超人特攻隊2\n\n4\n00:00:54,844 --> 00:01:16,518\n抄襲案件陳舒不窮文化部近期就有兩件一件就是台灣館的阿龍已經被證實當然我們也覺得有負責是不錯但是希望這件事情不要再發生但是我們還有另外一件事情另外一個超人事件其實目前還想要了解一下後續的處理情形\n\n5\n00:01:17,438 --> 00:01:42,827\n就是這個巴黎文化奧運臺灣館的主視覺一次抄襲了Appleemoji那上一次質詢的時候我們就要求文化部要針對這個emoji太過於類似蘋果的這個所謂表情符號法律授權的問題要在一週內以書面回覆現在一週的時間已經過去請教一下部長巴黎文化奧運臺灣館的主視覺emoji是否已向Apple的法律部門請求授權\n\n6\n00:01:50,473 --> 00:01:57,265\n暫時委員有提出質疑之後雖然我們的設計師不認為他那個算抄襲但是為了\n\n7\n00:01:58,690 --> 00:02:27,323\n為了這個問題他重新設計了沒有另外收設計費新的那個設計圖案我想會有提供給這個委員看完全不像了我們這裡得到的回應說本案設計是全新繪製不需要授權然後也再請教部長文化部回應本案為全新繪製就是說他只是說這個是我自己畫的我沒有抄襲如果你覺得很奇怪的話我就重畫一個這個真的我覺得這種方式我們還是要來了解一下\n\n8\n00:02:28,243 --> 00:02:54,893\n他說這個圖樣是全新繪製因為我們記者會已經開了我們已經公布這個設計了如果我們以後所有的設計師都畫完開完記者會大家說不滿意那我們重畫收回我覺得這件事情也不是這樣我先確認一下設計師有沒有提出創作過程的證明說他是創新他是全新繪製或者請公正的第三方對本案進行抄襲鑑定有沒有\n\n9\n00:03:01,547 --> 00:03:15,452\n我想上一次質詢的時候部長就有說阿龍事件不要再發生因為不要去單方面的片面相信彩信廠商的說辭但這一次我們好像又來相信廠商了那我們再來看一下\n\n10\n00:03:16,232 --> 00:03:31,315\n文化部對於設計理念的說明說文化部表示設計理念在世界通用的表情符號語言導入臺灣的W串聯在一起創意的核心是開創運用表情符號的新詮釋而非創作表情符號我幫您翻譯一下\n\n11\n00:03:32,176 --> 00:03:47,991\n文化部的意思是這個設計案的創意不在於畫表情符號而在於運用表情符號上一次質詢您的時候您有一個回答說如果可以你會自己畫一隻貓一隻狗我基本上是這個眼淚已經泛在眼眶都快要掉下來真的是覺得非常感動\n\n12\n00:03:48,872 --> 00:04:01,115\n但是我們現在文化部對於這個設計的回答說它是一下又說它的重點在於畫在於運用一下又說設計者自行繪製然後等到自己有點搞不清楚狀況就說反正他會重做一個然後不收錢我要再次強調這一次我提出這個案件的重點是表情符號表情符號的圖樣是有版權的如果想要使用就應該要依法律程序請求授權\n\n13\n00:04:17,498 --> 00:04:33,552\n如果有使用就大方承認有用要參考就大方承認有參考對文化部來講尊重原創的精神其實沒有這麼困難結果我們得到文化部的神邏輯一本正經的去講說兩個愛心疊在一起就是原創那我想就是說那我兩個耐心的疊在一起就屬於我的原創嗎那這樣正好解決臺文館的問題啊他們根本白道歉啊\n\n14\n00:04:43,900 --> 00:05:04,621\n一隻阿龍是抄襲,兩隻阿龍疊在一起就變成原創這可能會在台灣設計界或全世界的設計界投下一顆震撼彈要確認喔,這真的不是這樣,我想先確認一下因為這是我們得到的回覆啦當然後續的處理是後續處理,我們待會兒會提到那我們先講這個是一個精神的問題\n\n15\n00:05:05,262 --> 00:05:15,248\n我們文化部要帶頭尊重版權要有版權意識我們也要有原創的精神跟意識我先確認一下因為我們今天這樣的對話都會影響臺灣未來的這些設計公司做設計人員原創的參考請部長回答一下兩顆愛心堆疊在一起如果是學別人畫的把兩顆學別人畫的愛心疊在一起符合您所說的原創精神嗎\n\n16\n00:05:31,698 --> 00:05:59,496\n給您看一下這是文化部的回應其實我回答不了因為我跟不上他這個所謂Emoji這個東西算不算你可回答跟委員報告因為我們跟設計師溝通的過程裡面因為像表情符號它原本就是有各種不同版本有Android系統的有Apple系統有Google系統我們上一次已經比較過了這個是高度相似於Apple系統的Apple系統的Emoji是有版權的\n\n17\n00:06:01,977 --> 00:06:28,195\n大家現在直接拿出iPhone來你弄一個愛心出來就是長這個樣子如果我們單純使用一個愛心的話那當然是各個有各種不同的版本設計師是說他的創意的使用的方法那這個部分我們是接受可是我們也跟他提到說這對於一般社會大眾來講他還是會有一些誤解的地方所以設計師就說那我們就從在同樣的概念下他會重新設計\n\n18\n00:06:28,916 --> 00:06:44,826\n好謝謝您的回答這不是對一般大眾而已蘋果是現在市值全世界排名第二的公司我們是要尊重蘋果認定我們的筆業的手勢筆愛心到底是不是有\n\n19\n00:06:46,086 --> 00:07:02,814\n嚴重的參考了他的圖像的設計建成的設計這個回答對臺灣的設計界非常的重要堆疊在一起就可以你剛剛有說啊單獨使用一顆就沒有問題那使用兩顆呢難道就可以排除抄襲的可能就不用確認授權嗎\n\n20\n00:07:04,775 --> 00:07:16,505\n再來我想問那文化部出資到巴黎設置文化場館希望利用巴黎奧運的機會宣揚臺灣文化我們用這樣子Emoji用這個筆頁就代表臺灣文化了嗎?你有微笑我們就當作理解我們就往下其實這還真的只是一個開場而已我們來看還有一個更嚴重的問題我們其實我這真的不知道要怎麼問下去\n\n21\n00:07:34,325 --> 00:07:43,550\n這個案子哪個單位主責的?文化部交流司兩度以書面回覆本案是文化部以臺法文化交流專案這個專案破譯喔補助財團法人臺灣文化基金會再由基金會去辦理這個設計案\n\n22\n00:07:51,275 --> 00:08:17,321\n回覆的原文我直接放在頭影片請在座的各位看看財團法人臺灣文化基金會結果我們依據回覆的結果我們翻遍了所有的預算書跟這個公務單位的資料完全查無詞彙最後我們只能懷疑有一個名字相似的由王詩詩次長擔任董事長的財團法人文化臺灣基金會113年度文化部以公務預算補助該基金會3500萬\n\n23\n00:08:20,743 --> 00:08:29,575\n文化台灣結果你們回復我們是台灣文化到底文化不是遇到詐騙集團還是誇張到連自己補助哪一個財產法人都搞不清楚請部長回應一下好不好\n\n24\n00:08:32,556 --> 00:09:00,743\n據我了解這是等於是我們的文化部另外設的一個基金會就有點像我在台北市的時候我們的那個文化局有另外一個文化基金會是是是這個基金會我們知道我們想要問的部長不好意思打斷您我們想要問的是明明是文化台灣基金會結果為什麼來函回覆我們都是在講台灣文化基金會到底是文化部忘記了還是害怕想起來\n\n25\n00:09:01,543 --> 00:09:21,022\n我們立法委員所知竟然公然回復錯誤的資訊文化部的官員有沒有需要對此負責我們真的是不想要把這種什麼什麼黑箱啦什麼國會調查權去套在這件事情上那這個這是什麼樣你能不能回應一下這有沒有人需要負正式責任呢這個看起來是我們的錯誤啦就是在回話中\n\n26\n00:09:22,272 --> 00:09:43,789\n連這個都寫錯公文寫錯我承認這個錯誤文還真的不是只是一個單一事件我們發現我們問了說標案金額多少何時何地開標為什麼是這個廠商得標結果越問越令人害怕文化部竟然沒有辦法清楚回答任何一個問題整個開發流程充滿令人毛骨悚然的感受\n\n27\n00:09:44,770 --> 00:09:59,165\n根據文化部教育司的回覆,這個主事決案因為採購金額未超過公告金額150萬是由文化臺灣基金會自行尋找兩家廠商比價事情又很剛好兩家廠商一家報價148萬500元另外一家139萬9千元最後價低者得標\n\n28\n00:10:05,111 --> 00:10:29,307\n到目前為止跟部長報告文化部都不願意告知此案發包的金額多少我們只能合理懷疑這個其實到最後發包金額的這個標案就是149萬剛好躲過政府採購法規定的150萬的公告金額整個網站就查不到這個設計案的資訊請教部長您認同這樣的做法嗎低於採150萬的公告金額整個案子就可以在檯面下進行嗎請次長講一下因為平常你講我搞不懂這個\n\n29\n00:10:36,557 --> 00:10:40,319\n文化部本身是以身作則的。你們低於150萬的,你們也公開透明。\n\n30\n00:10:55,111 --> 00:11:11,690\n但是呢,3500萬的文化基金會錢過去了他們就可以低於150萬就不用公開我們也很想知道啊那150萬我可不可以拆成10個拆成20個那通通都不用公開啦先在此請教部長可不可以要求受文化部補助捐助的財團法人必須落實政府資訊公開的責任\n\n31\n00:11:15,774 --> 00:11:29,948\n比照文化部將每一筆標案列表公布於網站上您預計多久可以完成有沒有機會我們市長是這個董事長基金會董事長師長也是這個基金會的董事喔您預計多久可以完成這部分的討論\n\n32\n00:11:31,872 --> 00:11:59,079\n我們先按照那個財專法人的規定辦理好謝謝這個希望能夠有回覆主席對不起我再借一個時間因為這個7月多就要去法國巴黎展現在已經6月初了我們還是要趕快來搞清楚不然的話也不希望這個展出不順利都希望順順利利這一次最後關於本案的處置文化部提供說設計師主動表達修改主事節的意願而且還強調不加收任何費用\n\n33\n00:11:59,719 --> 00:12:12,351\n我先講我自己以前在設計學院教書我看到這個案子破譯破譯的專案包裝門面只花一百萬百分之一的預算我已經替這個設計師覺得很難過替設計界覺得很難過結果現在出了問題設計師要修改還不加價不給錢或者他還要這樣不知道到底是他怎麼樣就是說不用修改修改不用錢\n\n34\n00:12:23,702 --> 00:12:49,664\n對此我要表達文化部應該作為表率帶頭表達對於創意的尊重如果有民眾表示疑慮文化部應該要主動釐清整個創作過程只要文化部可以證實此案是原創設計設計師完全不需要修改主視覺設計我們要挺他但是相反的假如本案經證實可能涉及過度參考或抄襲那也絕非設計師主動修改設計就可以解決我們記者會也發了新聞稿也發了\n\n35\n00:12:52,207 --> 00:13:05,546\n國際的發表也發了各種破文也po了事關國際的聲譽我們就要採取補救的措施我們到底要跟廠商續約還是解約也要追究啊或者我建議文化部直接去函跟蘋果公司的法務部門確認這個案子到底要不要經過授權\n\n36\n00:13:08,510 --> 00:13:25,346\n他如果說可以我們就來用啊我們質詢的重點絕對不是凹設計師針對主視覺要去做免費的修改我是反對這件事有工作就要付錢我們追求大是大非要求釐清事件的真相我上次跟部長有分享過\n\n37\n00:13:26,647 --> 00:13:49,983\n我看了這個潮浪群雄小莊的這個漫畫提到明記當年就是非常支持年輕人非常支持原創我們要保護跟扶植創作者這個案子破了一億百分之一來做包裝跟設計結果還出了這麼大的問題我們絕對不能承受半點風險我們只剩下一個多月的時間希望部長在此案的後續處理一定要明快\n\n38\n00:13:50,603 --> 00:13:58,435\n才能透過巴黎奧運的機會讓全世界看到最好的臺灣好不好再次謝謝部長我們一起為臺灣提升能見度做努力謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n69\t21950\t葛如鈞委員好,謝謝主席有請文化部李遠部長以及交流司紀東洋代理司長好,有請部長跟司長\n25050\t35480\t早上好部長我已經說過你是我的偶像我就不再說了今天這個主題國家語言發展法很重要那我也先稍微說一下AI會是我們非常重要的\n36718\t37318\t主題是超人特攻隊2\n54844\t76518\t抄襲案件陳舒不窮文化部近期就有兩件一件就是台灣館的阿龍已經被證實當然我們也覺得有負責是不錯但是希望這件事情不要再發生但是我們還有另外一件事情另外一個超人事件其實目前還想要了解一下後續的處理情形\n77438\t102827\t就是這個巴黎文化奧運臺灣館的主視覺一次抄襲了Apple emoji那上一次質詢的時候我們就要求文化部要針對這個emoji太過於類似蘋果的這個所謂表情符號法律授權的問題要在一週內以書面回覆現在一週的時間已經過去請教一下部長巴黎文化奧運臺灣館的主視覺emoji是否已向Apple的法律部門請求授權\n110473\t117265\t暫時委員有提出質疑之後雖然我們的設計師不認為他那個算抄襲但是為了\n118690\t147323\t為了這個問題他重新設計了沒有另外收設計費新的那個設計圖案我想會有提供給這個委員看完全不像了我們這裡得到的回應說本案設計是全新繪製不需要授權然後也再請教部長文化部回應本案為全新繪製就是說他只是說這個是我自己畫的我沒有抄襲如果你覺得很奇怪的話我就重畫一個這個真的我覺得這種方式我們還是要來了解一下\n148243\t174893\t他說這個圖樣是全新繪製因為我們記者會已經開了我們已經公布這個設計了如果我們以後所有的設計師都畫完開完記者會大家說不滿意那我們重畫收回我覺得這件事情也不是這樣我先確認一下設計師有沒有提出創作過程的證明說他是創新他是全新繪製或者請公正的第三方對本案進行抄襲鑑定有沒有\n181547\t195452\t我想上一次質詢的時候部長就有說阿龍事件不要再發生因為不要去單方面的片面相信彩信廠商的說辭但這一次我們好像又來相信廠商了那我們再來看一下\n196232\t211315\t文化部對於設計理念的說明說文化部表示設計理念在世界通用的表情符號語言導入臺灣的W串聯在一起創意的核心是開創運用表情符號的新詮釋而非創作表情符號我幫您翻譯一下\n212176\t227991\t文化部的意思是這個設計案的創意不在於畫表情符號而在於運用表情符號上一次質詢您的時候您有一個回答說如果可以你會自己畫一隻貓一隻狗我基本上是這個眼淚已經泛在眼眶都快要掉下來真的是覺得非常感動\n228872\t241115\t但是我們現在文化部對於這個設計的回答說它是一下又說它的重點在於畫在於運用一下又說設計者自行繪製然後等到自己有點搞不清楚狀況就說反正他會重做一個然後不收錢我要再次強調這一次我提出這個案件的重點是表情符號表情符號的圖樣是有版權的如果想要使用就應該要依法律程序請求授權\n257498\t273552\t如果有使用就大方承認有用要參考就大方承認有參考對文化部來講尊重原創的精神其實沒有這麼困難結果我們得到文化部的神邏輯一本正經的去講說兩個愛心疊在一起就是原創那我想就是說那我兩個耐心的疊在一起就屬於我的原創嗎那這樣正好解決臺文館的問題啊他們根本白道歉啊\n283900\t304621\t一隻阿龍是抄襲,兩隻阿龍疊在一起就變成原創這可能會在台灣設計界或全世界的設計界投下一顆震撼彈要確認喔,這真的不是這樣,我想先確認一下因為這是我們得到的回覆啦當然後續的處理是後續處理,我們待會兒會提到那我們先講這個是一個精神的問題\n305262\t315248\t我們文化部要帶頭尊重版權要有版權意識我們也要有原創的精神跟意識我先確認一下因為我們今天這樣的對話都會影響臺灣未來的這些設計公司做設計人員原創的參考請部長回答一下兩顆愛心堆疊在一起如果是學別人畫的把兩顆學別人畫的愛心疊在一起符合您所說的原創精神嗎\n331698\t359496\t給您看一下這是文化部的回應其實我回答不了因為我跟不上他這個所謂Emoji這個東西算不算你可回答跟委員報告因為我們跟設計師溝通的過程裡面因為像表情符號它原本就是有各種不同版本有Android系統的 有Apple系統 有Google系統我們上一次已經比較過了這個是高度相似於Apple系統的Apple系統的Emoji是有版權的\n361977\t388195\t大家現在直接拿出iPhone來你弄一個愛心出來就是長這個樣子如果我們單純使用一個愛心的話那當然是各個有各種不同的版本設計師是說他的創意的使用的方法那這個部分我們是接受可是我們也跟他提到說這對於一般社會大眾來講他還是會有一些誤解的地方所以設計師就說那我們就從在同樣的概念下他會重新設計\n388916\t404826\t好 謝謝您的回答這不是對一般大眾而已蘋果是現在市值全世界排名第二的公司我們是要尊重蘋果認定我們的筆業的手勢筆愛心到底是不是有\n406086\t422814\t嚴重的參考了他的圖像的設計建成的設計這個回答對臺灣的設計界非常的重要堆疊在一起就可以你剛剛有說啊單獨使用一顆就沒有問題那使用兩顆呢難道就可以排除抄襲的可能就不用確認授權嗎\n424775\t436505\t再來我想問那文化部出資到巴黎設置文化場館希望利用巴黎奧運的機會宣揚臺灣文化我們用這樣子Emoji用這個筆頁就代表臺灣文化了嗎?你有微笑我們就當作理解我們就往下其實這還真的只是一個開場而已我們來看還有一個更嚴重的問題我們其實我這真的不知道要怎麼問下去\n454325\t463550\t這個案子哪個單位主責的?文化部交流司兩度以書面回覆本案是文化部以臺法文化交流專案這個專案破譯喔補助財團法人臺灣文化基金會再由基金會去辦理這個設計案\n471275\t497321\t回覆的原文我直接放在頭影片請在座的各位看看財團法人臺灣文化基金會結果我們依據回覆的結果我們翻遍了所有的預算書跟這個公務單位的資料完全查無詞彙最後我們只能懷疑有一個名字相似的由王詩詩次長擔任董事長的財團法人文化臺灣基金會113年度文化部以公務預算補助該基金會3500萬\n500743\t509575\t文化台灣 結果你們回復我們是台灣文化到底文化不是遇到詐騙集團還是誇張到連自己補助哪一個財產法人都搞不清楚請部長回應一下好不好\n512556\t540743\t據我了解這是等於是我們的文化部另外設的一個基金會就有點像我在台北市的時候我們的那個文化局有另外一個文化基金會是是是 這個基金會我們知道我們想要問的部長不好意思打斷您我們想要問的是明明是文化台灣基金會結果為什麼來函回覆我們都是在講台灣文化基金會到底是文化部忘記了還是害怕想起來\n541543\t561022\t我們立法委員所知竟然公然回復錯誤的資訊文化部的官員有沒有需要對此負責我們真的是不想要把這種什麼什麼黑箱啦什麼國會調查權去套在這件事情上那這個這是什麼樣你能不能回應一下這有沒有人需要負正式責任呢這個看起來是我們的錯誤啦就是在回話中\n562272\t583789\t連這個都寫錯公文寫錯我承認這個錯誤文還真的不是只是一個單一事件我們發現我們問了說標案金額多少何時何地開標為什麼是這個廠商得標結果越問越令人害怕文化部竟然沒有辦法清楚回答任何一個問題整個開發流程充滿令人毛骨悚然的感受\n584770\t599165\t根據文化部教育司的回覆,這個主事決案因為採購金額未超過公告金額150萬是由文化臺灣基金會自行尋找兩家廠商比價事情又很剛好兩家廠商一家報價148萬500元另外一家139萬9千元最後價低者得標\n605111\t629307\t到目前為止跟部長報告文化部都不願意告知此案發包的金額多少我們只能合理懷疑這個其實到最後發包金額的這個標案就是149萬剛好躲過政府採購法規定的150萬的公告金額整個網站就查不到這個設計案的資訊請教部長您認同這樣的做法嗎低於採150萬的公告金額整個案子就可以在檯面下進行嗎請次長講一下因為平常你講我搞不懂這個\n636557\t640319\t文化部本身是以身作則的。你們低於150萬的,你們也公開透明。\n655111\t671690\t但是呢,3500萬的文化基金會錢過去了他們就可以低於150萬就不用公開我們也很想知道啊那150萬我可不可以拆成10個拆成20個那通通都不用公開啦先在此請教部長可不可以要求受文化部補助捐助的財團法人必須落實政府資訊公開的責任\n675774\t689948\t比照文化部將每一筆標案列表公布於網站上您預計多久可以完成有沒有機會我們市長是這個董事長基金會董事長師長也是這個基金會的董事喔您預計多久可以完成這部分的討論\n691872\t719079\t我們先按照那個財專法人的規定辦理好 謝謝這個希望能夠有回覆主席對不起我再借一個時間因為這個7月多就要去法國巴黎展現在已經6月初了我們還是要趕快來搞清楚不然的話也不希望這個展出不順利都希望順順利利這一次最後關於本案的處置文化部提供說設計師主動表達修改主事節的意願而且還強調不加收任何費用\n719719\t732351\t我先講我自己以前在設計學院教書我看到這個案子破譯破譯的專案包裝門面只花一百萬百分之一的預算我已經替這個設計師覺得很難過替設計界覺得很難過結果現在出了問題設計師要修改還不加價不給錢或者他還要這樣不知道到底是他怎麼樣就是說不用修改修改不用錢\n743702\t769664\t對此我要表達文化部應該作為表率帶頭表達對於創意的尊重如果有民眾表示疑慮文化部應該要主動釐清整個創作過程只要文化部可以證實此案是原創設計設計師完全不需要修改主視覺設計我們要挺他但是相反的假如本案經證實可能涉及過度參考或抄襲那也絕非設計師主動修改設計就可以解決我們記者會也發了新聞稿也發了\n772207\t785546\t國際的發表也發了各種破文也po了事關國際的聲譽我們就要採取補救的措施我們到底要跟廠商續約還是解約也要追究啊或者我建議文化部直接去函跟蘋果公司的法務部門確認這個案子到底要不要經過授權\n788510\t805346\t他如果說可以我們就來用啊我們質詢的重點絕對不是凹設計師針對主視覺要去做免費的修改我是反對這件事有工作就要付錢我們追求大是大非要求釐清事件的真相我上次跟部長有分享過\n806647\t829983\t我看了這個潮浪群雄小莊的這個漫畫提到明記當年就是非常支持年輕人非常支持原創我們要保護跟扶植創作者這個案子破了一億百分之一來做包裝跟設計結果還出了這麼大的問題我們絕對不能承受半點風險我們只剩下一個多月的時間希望部長在此案的後續處理一定要明快\n830603\t838435\t才能透過巴黎奧運的機會讓全世界看到最好的臺灣好不好再次謝謝部長我們一起為臺灣提升能見度做努力謝謝\n","txt":"葛如鈞委員好,謝謝主席有請文化部李遠部長以及交流司紀東洋代理司長好,有請部長跟司長\n早上好部長我已經說過你是我的偶像我就不再說了今天這個主題國家語言發展法很重要那我也先稍微說一下AI會是我們非常重要的\n主題是超人特攻隊2\n抄襲案件陳舒不窮文化部近期就有兩件一件就是台灣館的阿龍已經被證實當然我們也覺得有負責是不錯但是希望這件事情不要再發生但是我們還有另外一件事情另外一個超人事件其實目前還想要了解一下後續的處理情形\n就是這個巴黎文化奧運臺灣館的主視覺一次抄襲了Apple emoji那上一次質詢的時候我們就要求文化部要針對這個emoji太過於類似蘋果的這個所謂表情符號法律授權的問題要在一週內以書面回覆現在一週的時間已經過去請教一下部長巴黎文化奧運臺灣館的主視覺emoji是否已向Apple的法律部門請求授權\n暫時委員有提出質疑之後雖然我們的設計師不認為他那個算抄襲但是為了\n為了這個問題他重新設計了沒有另外收設計費新的那個設計圖案我想會有提供給這個委員看完全不像了我們這裡得到的回應說本案設計是全新繪製不需要授權然後也再請教部長文化部回應本案為全新繪製就是說他只是說這個是我自己畫的我沒有抄襲如果你覺得很奇怪的話我就重畫一個這個真的我覺得這種方式我們還是要來了解一下\n他說這個圖樣是全新繪製因為我們記者會已經開了我們已經公布這個設計了如果我們以後所有的設計師都畫完開完記者會大家說不滿意那我們重畫收回我覺得這件事情也不是這樣我先確認一下設計師有沒有提出創作過程的證明說他是創新他是全新繪製或者請公正的第三方對本案進行抄襲鑑定有沒有\n我想上一次質詢的時候部長就有說阿龍事件不要再發生因為不要去單方面的片面相信彩信廠商的說辭但這一次我們好像又來相信廠商了那我們再來看一下\n文化部對於設計理念的說明說文化部表示設計理念在世界通用的表情符號語言導入臺灣的W串聯在一起創意的核心是開創運用表情符號的新詮釋而非創作表情符號我幫您翻譯一下\n文化部的意思是這個設計案的創意不在於畫表情符號而在於運用表情符號上一次質詢您的時候您有一個回答說如果可以你會自己畫一隻貓一隻狗我基本上是這個眼淚已經泛在眼眶都快要掉下來真的是覺得非常感動\n但是我們現在文化部對於這個設計的回答說它是一下又說它的重點在於畫在於運用一下又說設計者自行繪製然後等到自己有點搞不清楚狀況就說反正他會重做一個然後不收錢我要再次強調這一次我提出這個案件的重點是表情符號表情符號的圖樣是有版權的如果想要使用就應該要依法律程序請求授權\n如果有使用就大方承認有用要參考就大方承認有參考對文化部來講尊重原創的精神其實沒有這麼困難結果我們得到文化部的神邏輯一本正經的去講說兩個愛心疊在一起就是原創那我想就是說那我兩個耐心的疊在一起就屬於我的原創嗎那這樣正好解決臺文館的問題啊他們根本白道歉啊\n一隻阿龍是抄襲,兩隻阿龍疊在一起就變成原創這可能會在台灣設計界或全世界的設計界投下一顆震撼彈要確認喔,這真的不是這樣,我想先確認一下因為這是我們得到的回覆啦當然後續的處理是後續處理,我們待會兒會提到那我們先講這個是一個精神的問題\n我們文化部要帶頭尊重版權要有版權意識我們也要有原創的精神跟意識我先確認一下因為我們今天這樣的對話都會影響臺灣未來的這些設計公司做設計人員原創的參考請部長回答一下兩顆愛心堆疊在一起如果是學別人畫的把兩顆學別人畫的愛心疊在一起符合您所說的原創精神嗎\n給您看一下這是文化部的回應其實我回答不了因為我跟不上他這個所謂Emoji這個東西算不算你可回答跟委員報告因為我們跟設計師溝通的過程裡面因為像表情符號它原本就是有各種不同版本有Android系統的 有Apple系統 有Google系統我們上一次已經比較過了這個是高度相似於Apple系統的Apple系統的Emoji是有版權的\n大家現在直接拿出iPhone來你弄一個愛心出來就是長這個樣子如果我們單純使用一個愛心的話那當然是各個有各種不同的版本設計師是說他的創意的使用的方法那這個部分我們是接受可是我們也跟他提到說這對於一般社會大眾來講他還是會有一些誤解的地方所以設計師就說那我們就從在同樣的概念下他會重新設計\n好 謝謝您的回答這不是對一般大眾而已蘋果是現在市值全世界排名第二的公司我們是要尊重蘋果認定我們的筆業的手勢筆愛心到底是不是有\n嚴重的參考了他的圖像的設計建成的設計這個回答對臺灣的設計界非常的重要堆疊在一起就可以你剛剛有說啊單獨使用一顆就沒有問題那使用兩顆呢難道就可以排除抄襲的可能就不用確認授權嗎\n再來我想問那文化部出資到巴黎設置文化場館希望利用巴黎奧運的機會宣揚臺灣文化我們用這樣子Emoji用這個筆頁就代表臺灣文化了嗎?你有微笑我們就當作理解我們就往下其實這還真的只是一個開場而已我們來看還有一個更嚴重的問題我們其實我這真的不知道要怎麼問下去\n這個案子哪個單位主責的?文化部交流司兩度以書面回覆本案是文化部以臺法文化交流專案這個專案破譯喔補助財團法人臺灣文化基金會再由基金會去辦理這個設計案\n回覆的原文我直接放在頭影片請在座的各位看看財團法人臺灣文化基金會結果我們依據回覆的結果我們翻遍了所有的預算書跟這個公務單位的資料完全查無詞彙最後我們只能懷疑有一個名字相似的由王詩詩次長擔任董事長的財團法人文化臺灣基金會113年度文化部以公務預算補助該基金會3500萬\n文化台灣 結果你們回復我們是台灣文化到底文化不是遇到詐騙集團還是誇張到連自己補助哪一個財產法人都搞不清楚請部長回應一下好不好\n據我了解這是等於是我們的文化部另外設的一個基金會就有點像我在台北市的時候我們的那個文化局有另外一個文化基金會是是是 這個基金會我們知道我們想要問的部長不好意思打斷您我們想要問的是明明是文化台灣基金會結果為什麼來函回覆我們都是在講台灣文化基金會到底是文化部忘記了還是害怕想起來\n我們立法委員所知竟然公然回復錯誤的資訊文化部的官員有沒有需要對此負責我們真的是不想要把這種什麼什麼黑箱啦什麼國會調查權去套在這件事情上那這個這是什麼樣你能不能回應一下這有沒有人需要負正式責任呢這個看起來是我們的錯誤啦就是在回話中\n連這個都寫錯公文寫錯我承認這個錯誤文還真的不是只是一個單一事件我們發現我們問了說標案金額多少何時何地開標為什麼是這個廠商得標結果越問越令人害怕文化部竟然沒有辦法清楚回答任何一個問題整個開發流程充滿令人毛骨悚然的感受\n根據文化部教育司的回覆,這個主事決案因為採購金額未超過公告金額150萬是由文化臺灣基金會自行尋找兩家廠商比價事情又很剛好兩家廠商一家報價148萬500元另外一家139萬9千元最後價低者得標\n到目前為止跟部長報告文化部都不願意告知此案發包的金額多少我們只能合理懷疑這個其實到最後發包金額的這個標案就是149萬剛好躲過政府採購法規定的150萬的公告金額整個網站就查不到這個設計案的資訊請教部長您認同這樣的做法嗎低於採150萬的公告金額整個案子就可以在檯面下進行嗎請次長講一下因為平常你講我搞不懂這個\n文化部本身是以身作則的。你們低於150萬的,你們也公開透明。\n但是呢,3500萬的文化基金會錢過去了他們就可以低於150萬就不用公開我們也很想知道啊那150萬我可不可以拆成10個拆成20個那通通都不用公開啦先在此請教部長可不可以要求受文化部補助捐助的財團法人必須落實政府資訊公開的責任\n比照文化部將每一筆標案列表公布於網站上您預計多久可以完成有沒有機會我們市長是這個董事長基金會董事長師長也是這個基金會的董事喔您預計多久可以完成這部分的討論\n我們先按照那個財專法人的規定辦理好 謝謝這個希望能夠有回覆主席對不起我再借一個時間因為這個7月多就要去法國巴黎展現在已經6月初了我們還是要趕快來搞清楚不然的話也不希望這個展出不順利都希望順順利利這一次最後關於本案的處置文化部提供說設計師主動表達修改主事節的意願而且還強調不加收任何費用\n我先講我自己以前在設計學院教書我看到這個案子破譯破譯的專案包裝門面只花一百萬百分之一的預算我已經替這個設計師覺得很難過替設計界覺得很難過結果現在出了問題設計師要修改還不加價不給錢或者他還要這樣不知道到底是他怎麼樣就是說不用修改修改不用錢\n對此我要表達文化部應該作為表率帶頭表達對於創意的尊重如果有民眾表示疑慮文化部應該要主動釐清整個創作過程只要文化部可以證實此案是原創設計設計師完全不需要修改主視覺設計我們要挺他但是相反的假如本案經證實可能涉及過度參考或抄襲那也絕非設計師主動修改設計就可以解決我們記者會也發了新聞稿也發了\n國際的發表也發了各種破文也po了事關國際的聲譽我們就要採取補救的措施我們到底要跟廠商續約還是解約也要追究啊或者我建議文化部直接去函跟蘋果公司的法務部門確認這個案子到底要不要經過授權\n他如果說可以我們就來用啊我們質詢的重點絕對不是凹設計師針對主視覺要去做免費的修改我是反對這件事有工作就要付錢我們追求大是大非要求釐清事件的真相我上次跟部長有分享過\n我看了這個潮浪群雄小莊的這個漫畫提到明記當年就是非常支持年輕人非常支持原創我們要保護跟扶植創作者這個案子破了一億百分之一來做包裝跟設計結果還出了這麼大的問題我們絕對不能承受半點風險我們只剩下一個多月的時間希望部長在此案的後續處理一定要明快\n才能透過巴黎奧運的機會讓全世界看到最好的臺灣好不好再次謝謝部長我們一起為臺灣提升能見度做努力謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.069 --> 00:21.950\n葛如鈞委員好,謝謝主席有請文化部李遠部長以及交流司紀東洋代理司長好,有請部長跟司長\n\n00:25.050 --> 00:35.480\n早上好部長我已經說過你是我的偶像我就不再說了今天這個主題國家語言發展法很重要那我也先稍微說一下AI會是我們非常重要的\n\n00:36.718 --> 00:37.318\n主題是超人特攻隊2\n\n00:54.844 --> 01:16.518\n抄襲案件陳舒不窮文化部近期就有兩件一件就是台灣館的阿龍已經被證實當然我們也覺得有負責是不錯但是希望這件事情不要再發生但是我們還有另外一件事情另外一個超人事件其實目前還想要了解一下後續的處理情形\n\n01:17.438 --> 01:42.827\n就是這個巴黎文化奧運臺灣館的主視覺一次抄襲了Appleemoji那上一次質詢的時候我們就要求文化部要針對這個emoji太過於類似蘋果的這個所謂表情符號法律授權的問題要在一週內以書面回覆現在一週的時間已經過去請教一下部長巴黎文化奧運臺灣館的主視覺emoji是否已向Apple的法律部門請求授權\n\n01:50.473 --> 01:57.265\n暫時委員有提出質疑之後雖然我們的設計師不認為他那個算抄襲但是為了\n\n01:58.690 --> 02:27.323\n為了這個問題他重新設計了沒有另外收設計費新的那個設計圖案我想會有提供給這個委員看完全不像了我們這裡得到的回應說本案設計是全新繪製不需要授權然後也再請教部長文化部回應本案為全新繪製就是說他只是說這個是我自己畫的我沒有抄襲如果你覺得很奇怪的話我就重畫一個這個真的我覺得這種方式我們還是要來了解一下\n\n02:28.243 --> 02:54.893\n他說這個圖樣是全新繪製因為我們記者會已經開了我們已經公布這個設計了如果我們以後所有的設計師都畫完開完記者會大家說不滿意那我們重畫收回我覺得這件事情也不是這樣我先確認一下設計師有沒有提出創作過程的證明說他是創新他是全新繪製或者請公正的第三方對本案進行抄襲鑑定有沒有\n\n03:01.547 --> 03:15.452\n我想上一次質詢的時候部長就有說阿龍事件不要再發生因為不要去單方面的片面相信彩信廠商的說辭但這一次我們好像又來相信廠商了那我們再來看一下\n\n03:16.232 --> 03:31.315\n文化部對於設計理念的說明說文化部表示設計理念在世界通用的表情符號語言導入臺灣的W串聯在一起創意的核心是開創運用表情符號的新詮釋而非創作表情符號我幫您翻譯一下\n\n03:32.176 --> 03:47.991\n文化部的意思是這個設計案的創意不在於畫表情符號而在於運用表情符號上一次質詢您的時候您有一個回答說如果可以你會自己畫一隻貓一隻狗我基本上是這個眼淚已經泛在眼眶都快要掉下來真的是覺得非常感動\n\n03:48.872 --> 04:01.115\n但是我們現在文化部對於這個設計的回答說它是一下又說它的重點在於畫在於運用一下又說設計者自行繪製然後等到自己有點搞不清楚狀況就說反正他會重做一個然後不收錢我要再次強調這一次我提出這個案件的重點是表情符號表情符號的圖樣是有版權的如果想要使用就應該要依法律程序請求授權\n\n04:17.498 --> 04:33.552\n如果有使用就大方承認有用要參考就大方承認有參考對文化部來講尊重原創的精神其實沒有這麼困難結果我們得到文化部的神邏輯一本正經的去講說兩個愛心疊在一起就是原創那我想就是說那我兩個耐心的疊在一起就屬於我的原創嗎那這樣正好解決臺文館的問題啊他們根本白道歉啊\n\n04:43.900 --> 05:04.621\n一隻阿龍是抄襲,兩隻阿龍疊在一起就變成原創這可能會在台灣設計界或全世界的設計界投下一顆震撼彈要確認喔,這真的不是這樣,我想先確認一下因為這是我們得到的回覆啦當然後續的處理是後續處理,我們待會兒會提到那我們先講這個是一個精神的問題\n\n05:05.262 --> 05:15.248\n我們文化部要帶頭尊重版權要有版權意識我們也要有原創的精神跟意識我先確認一下因為我們今天這樣的對話都會影響臺灣未來的這些設計公司做設計人員原創的參考請部長回答一下兩顆愛心堆疊在一起如果是學別人畫的把兩顆學別人畫的愛心疊在一起符合您所說的原創精神嗎\n\n05:31.698 --> 05:59.496\n給您看一下這是文化部的回應其實我回答不了因為我跟不上他這個所謂Emoji這個東西算不算你可回答跟委員報告因為我們跟設計師溝通的過程裡面因為像表情符號它原本就是有各種不同版本有Android系統的有Apple系統有Google系統我們上一次已經比較過了這個是高度相似於Apple系統的Apple系統的Emoji是有版權的\n\n06:01.977 --> 06:28.195\n大家現在直接拿出iPhone來你弄一個愛心出來就是長這個樣子如果我們單純使用一個愛心的話那當然是各個有各種不同的版本設計師是說他的創意的使用的方法那這個部分我們是接受可是我們也跟他提到說這對於一般社會大眾來講他還是會有一些誤解的地方所以設計師就說那我們就從在同樣的概念下他會重新設計\n\n06:28.916 --> 06:44.826\n好謝謝您的回答這不是對一般大眾而已蘋果是現在市值全世界排名第二的公司我們是要尊重蘋果認定我們的筆業的手勢筆愛心到底是不是有\n\n06:46.086 --> 07:02.814\n嚴重的參考了他的圖像的設計建成的設計這個回答對臺灣的設計界非常的重要堆疊在一起就可以你剛剛有說啊單獨使用一顆就沒有問題那使用兩顆呢難道就可以排除抄襲的可能就不用確認授權嗎\n\n07:04.775 --> 07:16.505\n再來我想問那文化部出資到巴黎設置文化場館希望利用巴黎奧運的機會宣揚臺灣文化我們用這樣子Emoji用這個筆頁就代表臺灣文化了嗎?你有微笑我們就當作理解我們就往下其實這還真的只是一個開場而已我們來看還有一個更嚴重的問題我們其實我這真的不知道要怎麼問下去\n\n07:34.325 --> 07:43.550\n這個案子哪個單位主責的?文化部交流司兩度以書面回覆本案是文化部以臺法文化交流專案這個專案破譯喔補助財團法人臺灣文化基金會再由基金會去辦理這個設計案\n\n07:51.275 --> 08:17.321\n回覆的原文我直接放在頭影片請在座的各位看看財團法人臺灣文化基金會結果我們依據回覆的結果我們翻遍了所有的預算書跟這個公務單位的資料完全查無詞彙最後我們只能懷疑有一個名字相似的由王詩詩次長擔任董事長的財團法人文化臺灣基金會113年度文化部以公務預算補助該基金會3500萬\n\n08:20.743 --> 08:29.575\n文化台灣結果你們回復我們是台灣文化到底文化不是遇到詐騙集團還是誇張到連自己補助哪一個財產法人都搞不清楚請部長回應一下好不好\n\n08:32.556 --> 09:00.743\n據我了解這是等於是我們的文化部另外設的一個基金會就有點像我在台北市的時候我們的那個文化局有另外一個文化基金會是是是這個基金會我們知道我們想要問的部長不好意思打斷您我們想要問的是明明是文化台灣基金會結果為什麼來函回覆我們都是在講台灣文化基金會到底是文化部忘記了還是害怕想起來\n\n09:01.543 --> 09:21.022\n我們立法委員所知竟然公然回復錯誤的資訊文化部的官員有沒有需要對此負責我們真的是不想要把這種什麼什麼黑箱啦什麼國會調查權去套在這件事情上那這個這是什麼樣你能不能回應一下這有沒有人需要負正式責任呢這個看起來是我們的錯誤啦就是在回話中\n\n09:22.272 --> 09:43.789\n連這個都寫錯公文寫錯我承認這個錯誤文還真的不是只是一個單一事件我們發現我們問了說標案金額多少何時何地開標為什麼是這個廠商得標結果越問越令人害怕文化部竟然沒有辦法清楚回答任何一個問題整個開發流程充滿令人毛骨悚然的感受\n\n09:44.770 --> 09:59.165\n根據文化部教育司的回覆,這個主事決案因為採購金額未超過公告金額150萬是由文化臺灣基金會自行尋找兩家廠商比價事情又很剛好兩家廠商一家報價148萬500元另外一家139萬9千元最後價低者得標\n\n10:05.111 --> 10:29.307\n到目前為止跟部長報告文化部都不願意告知此案發包的金額多少我們只能合理懷疑這個其實到最後發包金額的這個標案就是149萬剛好躲過政府採購法規定的150萬的公告金額整個網站就查不到這個設計案的資訊請教部長您認同這樣的做法嗎低於採150萬的公告金額整個案子就可以在檯面下進行嗎請次長講一下因為平常你講我搞不懂這個\n\n10:36.557 --> 10:40.319\n文化部本身是以身作則的。你們低於150萬的,你們也公開透明。\n\n10:55.111 --> 11:11.690\n但是呢,3500萬的文化基金會錢過去了他們就可以低於150萬就不用公開我們也很想知道啊那150萬我可不可以拆成10個拆成20個那通通都不用公開啦先在此請教部長可不可以要求受文化部補助捐助的財團法人必須落實政府資訊公開的責任\n\n11:15.774 --> 11:29.948\n比照文化部將每一筆標案列表公布於網站上您預計多久可以完成有沒有機會我們市長是這個董事長基金會董事長師長也是這個基金會的董事喔您預計多久可以完成這部分的討論\n\n11:31.872 --> 11:59.079\n我們先按照那個財專法人的規定辦理好謝謝這個希望能夠有回覆主席對不起我再借一個時間因為這個7月多就要去法國巴黎展現在已經6月初了我們還是要趕快來搞清楚不然的話也不希望這個展出不順利都希望順順利利這一次最後關於本案的處置文化部提供說設計師主動表達修改主事節的意願而且還強調不加收任何費用\n\n11:59.719 --> 12:12.351\n我先講我自己以前在設計學院教書我看到這個案子破譯破譯的專案包裝門面只花一百萬百分之一的預算我已經替這個設計師覺得很難過替設計界覺得很難過結果現在出了問題設計師要修改還不加價不給錢或者他還要這樣不知道到底是他怎麼樣就是說不用修改修改不用錢\n\n12:23.702 --> 12:49.664\n對此我要表達文化部應該作為表率帶頭表達對於創意的尊重如果有民眾表示疑慮文化部應該要主動釐清整個創作過程只要文化部可以證實此案是原創設計設計師完全不需要修改主視覺設計我們要挺他但是相反的假如本案經證實可能涉及過度參考或抄襲那也絕非設計師主動修改設計就可以解決我們記者會也發了新聞稿也發了\n\n12:52.207 --> 13:05.546\n國際的發表也發了各種破文也po了事關國際的聲譽我們就要採取補救的措施我們到底要跟廠商續約還是解約也要追究啊或者我建議文化部直接去函跟蘋果公司的法務部門確認這個案子到底要不要經過授權\n\n13:08.510 --> 13:25.346\n他如果說可以我們就來用啊我們質詢的重點絕對不是凹設計師針對主視覺要去做免費的修改我是反對這件事有工作就要付錢我們追求大是大非要求釐清事件的真相我上次跟部長有分享過\n\n13:26.647 --> 13:49.983\n我看了這個潮浪群雄小莊的這個漫畫提到明記當年就是非常支持年輕人非常支持原創我們要保護跟扶植創作者這個案子破了一億百分之一來做包裝跟設計結果還出了這麼大的問題我們絕對不能承受半點風險我們只剩下一個多月的時間希望部長在此案的後續處理一定要明快\n\n13:50.603 --> 13:58.435\n才能透過巴黎奧運的機會讓全世界看到最好的臺灣好不好再次謝謝部長我們一起為臺灣提升能見度做努力謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.069,"end":21.95,"text":"葛如鈞委員好,謝謝主席有請文化部李遠部長以及交流司紀東洋代理司長好,有請部長跟司長"},{"start":25.05,"end":35.48,"text":"早上好部長我已經說過你是我的偶像我就不再說了今天這個主題國家語言發展法很重要那我也先稍微說一下AI會是我們非常重要的"},{"start":36.718,"end":37.318,"text":"主題是超人特攻隊2"},{"start":54.844,"end":76.518,"text":"抄襲案件陳舒不窮文化部近期就有兩件一件就是台灣館的阿龍已經被證實當然我們也覺得有負責是不錯但是希望這件事情不要再發生但是我們還有另外一件事情另外一個超人事件其實目前還想要了解一下後續的處理情形"},{"start":77.438,"end":102.827,"text":"就是這個巴黎文化奧運臺灣館的主視覺一次抄襲了Apple emoji那上一次質詢的時候我們就要求文化部要針對這個emoji太過於類似蘋果的這個所謂表情符號法律授權的問題要在一週內以書面回覆現在一週的時間已經過去請教一下部長巴黎文化奧運臺灣館的主視覺emoji是否已向Apple的法律部門請求授權"},{"start":110.473,"end":117.265,"text":"暫時委員有提出質疑之後雖然我們的設計師不認為他那個算抄襲但是為了"},{"start":118.69,"end":147.323,"text":"為了這個問題他重新設計了沒有另外收設計費新的那個設計圖案我想會有提供給這個委員看完全不像了我們這裡得到的回應說本案設計是全新繪製不需要授權然後也再請教部長文化部回應本案為全新繪製就是說他只是說這個是我自己畫的我沒有抄襲如果你覺得很奇怪的話我就重畫一個這個真的我覺得這種方式我們還是要來了解一下"},{"start":148.243,"end":174.893,"text":"他說這個圖樣是全新繪製因為我們記者會已經開了我們已經公布這個設計了如果我們以後所有的設計師都畫完開完記者會大家說不滿意那我們重畫收回我覺得這件事情也不是這樣我先確認一下設計師有沒有提出創作過程的證明說他是創新他是全新繪製或者請公正的第三方對本案進行抄襲鑑定有沒有"},{"start":181.547,"end":195.452,"text":"我想上一次質詢的時候部長就有說阿龍事件不要再發生因為不要去單方面的片面相信彩信廠商的說辭但這一次我們好像又來相信廠商了那我們再來看一下"},{"start":196.232,"end":211.315,"text":"文化部對於設計理念的說明說文化部表示設計理念在世界通用的表情符號語言導入臺灣的W串聯在一起創意的核心是開創運用表情符號的新詮釋而非創作表情符號我幫您翻譯一下"},{"start":212.176,"end":227.991,"text":"文化部的意思是這個設計案的創意不在於畫表情符號而在於運用表情符號上一次質詢您的時候您有一個回答說如果可以你會自己畫一隻貓一隻狗我基本上是這個眼淚已經泛在眼眶都快要掉下來真的是覺得非常感動"},{"start":228.872,"end":241.115,"text":"但是我們現在文化部對於這個設計的回答說它是一下又說它的重點在於畫在於運用一下又說設計者自行繪製然後等到自己有點搞不清楚狀況就說反正他會重做一個然後不收錢我要再次強調這一次我提出這個案件的重點是表情符號表情符號的圖樣是有版權的如果想要使用就應該要依法律程序請求授權"},{"start":257.498,"end":273.552,"text":"如果有使用就大方承認有用要參考就大方承認有參考對文化部來講尊重原創的精神其實沒有這麼困難結果我們得到文化部的神邏輯一本正經的去講說兩個愛心疊在一起就是原創那我想就是說那我兩個耐心的疊在一起就屬於我的原創嗎那這樣正好解決臺文館的問題啊他們根本白道歉啊"},{"start":283.9,"end":304.621,"text":"一隻阿龍是抄襲,兩隻阿龍疊在一起就變成原創這可能會在台灣設計界或全世界的設計界投下一顆震撼彈要確認喔,這真的不是這樣,我想先確認一下因為這是我們得到的回覆啦當然後續的處理是後續處理,我們待會兒會提到那我們先講這個是一個精神的問題"},{"start":305.262,"end":315.248,"text":"我們文化部要帶頭尊重版權要有版權意識我們也要有原創的精神跟意識我先確認一下因為我們今天這樣的對話都會影響臺灣未來的這些設計公司做設計人員原創的參考請部長回答一下兩顆愛心堆疊在一起如果是學別人畫的把兩顆學別人畫的愛心疊在一起符合您所說的原創精神嗎"},{"start":331.698,"end":359.496,"text":"給您看一下這是文化部的回應其實我回答不了因為我跟不上他這個所謂Emoji這個東西算不算你可回答跟委員報告因為我們跟設計師溝通的過程裡面因為像表情符號它原本就是有各種不同版本有Android系統的 有Apple系統 有Google系統我們上一次已經比較過了這個是高度相似於Apple系統的Apple系統的Emoji是有版權的"},{"start":361.977,"end":388.195,"text":"大家現在直接拿出iPhone來你弄一個愛心出來就是長這個樣子如果我們單純使用一個愛心的話那當然是各個有各種不同的版本設計師是說他的創意的使用的方法那這個部分我們是接受可是我們也跟他提到說這對於一般社會大眾來講他還是會有一些誤解的地方所以設計師就說那我們就從在同樣的概念下他會重新設計"},{"start":388.916,"end":404.826,"text":"好 謝謝您的回答這不是對一般大眾而已蘋果是現在市值全世界排名第二的公司我們是要尊重蘋果認定我們的筆業的手勢筆愛心到底是不是有"},{"start":406.086,"end":422.814,"text":"嚴重的參考了他的圖像的設計建成的設計這個回答對臺灣的設計界非常的重要堆疊在一起就可以你剛剛有說啊單獨使用一顆就沒有問題那使用兩顆呢難道就可以排除抄襲的可能就不用確認授權嗎"},{"start":424.775,"end":436.505,"text":"再來我想問那文化部出資到巴黎設置文化場館希望利用巴黎奧運的機會宣揚臺灣文化我們用這樣子Emoji用這個筆頁就代表臺灣文化了嗎?你有微笑我們就當作理解我們就往下其實這還真的只是一個開場而已我們來看還有一個更嚴重的問題我們其實我這真的不知道要怎麼問下去"},{"start":454.325,"end":463.55,"text":"這個案子哪個單位主責的?文化部交流司兩度以書面回覆本案是文化部以臺法文化交流專案這個專案破譯喔補助財團法人臺灣文化基金會再由基金會去辦理這個設計案"},{"start":471.275,"end":497.321,"text":"回覆的原文我直接放在頭影片請在座的各位看看財團法人臺灣文化基金會結果我們依據回覆的結果我們翻遍了所有的預算書跟這個公務單位的資料完全查無詞彙最後我們只能懷疑有一個名字相似的由王詩詩次長擔任董事長的財團法人文化臺灣基金會113年度文化部以公務預算補助該基金會3500萬"},{"start":500.743,"end":509.575,"text":"文化台灣 結果你們回復我們是台灣文化到底文化不是遇到詐騙集團還是誇張到連自己補助哪一個財產法人都搞不清楚請部長回應一下好不好"},{"start":512.556,"end":540.743,"text":"據我了解這是等於是我們的文化部另外設的一個基金會就有點像我在台北市的時候我們的那個文化局有另外一個文化基金會是是是 這個基金會我們知道我們想要問的部長不好意思打斷您我們想要問的是明明是文化台灣基金會結果為什麼來函回覆我們都是在講台灣文化基金會到底是文化部忘記了還是害怕想起來"},{"start":541.543,"end":561.022,"text":"我們立法委員所知竟然公然回復錯誤的資訊文化部的官員有沒有需要對此負責我們真的是不想要把這種什麼什麼黑箱啦什麼國會調查權去套在這件事情上那這個這是什麼樣你能不能回應一下這有沒有人需要負正式責任呢這個看起來是我們的錯誤啦就是在回話中"},{"start":562.272,"end":583.789,"text":"連這個都寫錯公文寫錯我承認這個錯誤文還真的不是只是一個單一事件我們發現我們問了說標案金額多少何時何地開標為什麼是這個廠商得標結果越問越令人害怕文化部竟然沒有辦法清楚回答任何一個問題整個開發流程充滿令人毛骨悚然的感受"},{"start":584.77,"end":599.165,"text":"根據文化部教育司的回覆,這個主事決案因為採購金額未超過公告金額150萬是由文化臺灣基金會自行尋找兩家廠商比價事情又很剛好兩家廠商一家報價148萬500元另外一家139萬9千元最後價低者得標"},{"start":605.111,"end":629.307,"text":"到目前為止跟部長報告文化部都不願意告知此案發包的金額多少我們只能合理懷疑這個其實到最後發包金額的這個標案就是149萬剛好躲過政府採購法規定的150萬的公告金額整個網站就查不到這個設計案的資訊請教部長您認同這樣的做法嗎低於採150萬的公告金額整個案子就可以在檯面下進行嗎請次長講一下因為平常你講我搞不懂這個"},{"start":636.557,"end":640.319,"text":"文化部本身是以身作則的。你們低於150萬的,你們也公開透明。"},{"start":655.111,"end":671.69,"text":"但是呢,3500萬的文化基金會錢過去了他們就可以低於150萬就不用公開我們也很想知道啊那150萬我可不可以拆成10個拆成20個那通通都不用公開啦先在此請教部長可不可以要求受文化部補助捐助的財團法人必須落實政府資訊公開的責任"},{"start":675.774,"end":689.948,"text":"比照文化部將每一筆標案列表公布於網站上您預計多久可以完成有沒有機會我們市長是這個董事長基金會董事長師長也是這個基金會的董事喔您預計多久可以完成這部分的討論"},{"start":691.872,"end":719.079,"text":"我們先按照那個財專法人的規定辦理好 謝謝這個希望能夠有回覆主席對不起我再借一個時間因為這個7月多就要去法國巴黎展現在已經6月初了我們還是要趕快來搞清楚不然的話也不希望這個展出不順利都希望順順利利這一次最後關於本案的處置文化部提供說設計師主動表達修改主事節的意願而且還強調不加收任何費用"},{"start":719.719,"end":732.351,"text":"我先講我自己以前在設計學院教書我看到這個案子破譯破譯的專案包裝門面只花一百萬百分之一的預算我已經替這個設計師覺得很難過替設計界覺得很難過結果現在出了問題設計師要修改還不加價不給錢或者他還要這樣不知道到底是他怎麼樣就是說不用修改修改不用錢"},{"start":743.702,"end":769.664,"text":"對此我要表達文化部應該作為表率帶頭表達對於創意的尊重如果有民眾表示疑慮文化部應該要主動釐清整個創作過程只要文化部可以證實此案是原創設計設計師完全不需要修改主視覺設計我們要挺他但是相反的假如本案經證實可能涉及過度參考或抄襲那也絕非設計師主動修改設計就可以解決我們記者會也發了新聞稿也發了"},{"start":772.207,"end":785.546,"text":"國際的發表也發了各種破文也po了事關國際的聲譽我們就要採取補救的措施我們到底要跟廠商續約還是解約也要追究啊或者我建議文化部直接去函跟蘋果公司的法務部門確認這個案子到底要不要經過授權"},{"start":788.51,"end":805.346,"text":"他如果說可以我們就來用啊我們質詢的重點絕對不是凹設計師針對主視覺要去做免費的修改我是反對這件事有工作就要付錢我們追求大是大非要求釐清事件的真相我上次跟部長有分享過"},{"start":806.647,"end":829.983,"text":"我看了這個潮浪群雄小莊的這個漫畫提到明記當年就是非常支持年輕人非常支持原創我們要保護跟扶植創作者這個案子破了一億百分之一來做包裝跟設計結果還出了這麼大的問題我們絕對不能承受半點風險我們只剩下一個多月的時間希望部長在此案的後續處理一定要明快"},{"start":830.603,"end":838.435,"text":"才能透過巴黎奧運的機會讓全世界看到最好的臺灣好不好再次謝謝部長我們一起為臺灣提升能見度做努力謝謝"}]}}}}