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ID，可能包含IMEI，也可能有IMSI，因為它沒有講清楚，所以這些東西如果去跟IP來做拼湊的話，這個能夠造成的隱私侵害會比較大。","因為時間的關係，我這邊有一個小小的建議，因為我知道實務上會認為最重本刑三年以上，這樣會造成很多案件你們要做調查卻沒辦法調查，能不能用反面排除？譬如說我們今天排除最重本刑三年以下，我這樣講是因為量能問題，像現在有藐視國會罪，公然侮辱現在比較沒那麼容易成立，還有誹謗，這些比較輕的犯罪如果全部都可以走這一條路的話，有可能到最後警方沒有辦法負荷，沒有辦法負荷，但又不想用原來的最重本刑三年以上，比較可以的作法是不是就是用排除法？譬如說把一些特定的輕罪排除，不然的話，到時候量能沒有辦法負荷的狀況之下，到最後不管是濫用的問題、量能的問題，還有隱私侵害的問題全部結合在一起，我覺得還是會有濫用的可能性。因為時間的關係，部長就很簡短回答一下。"],["鄭部長銘謙：其實我們是認為有取消這個也有限制，譬如說引誘兒少從事色情業的，這個都很輕，如果說這個不拿掉，這個都沒辦法調通聯，而有關於兒少從事色情業這種是我們社會大眾關注的問題。另外，像脫逃罪也是輕罪，像上次的殺警案，如果沒有調紀錄的話，我們沒辦法及時地啟動偵查，會延誤時機，我想這還是有它的必要性。","我想這部分，其實調這些資料，這只是一個偵查最早、最早的一個開端而已，至少希望能夠知道這個被告身分的基本資料，我想這部分對人權的侵害非常小，而且基於公共利益的維護，我們認為是有必要的。"],["沈委員伯洋：我覺得兩個點，第一個就是法定刑本身輕重必須還是要跟隱私侵害做衡量，這還是要做的；第二個就是濫權不一定是在法務部這邊處理，就是我剛剛講的，在第一線的教育訓練可能要來確保這件事情。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個部分我們來加強。"],["沈委員伯洋：對，這可能要跨部會去討論一下，就這兩個點我覺得要稍微注意，尤其在進入逐條討論的時候。"],["鄭部長銘謙：是，好。"],["沈委員伯洋：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝沈委員，謝謝鄭部長。也提醒一下今天的列席機關代表，未來我們在進入法條的逐條討論的時候，可能會有類似今天委員關切的部分以修正動議提出，或者以附帶決議的方式表達，請各列席機關代表要先預為因應。","接下來有請黃委員國昌發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":324,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-31","speakers":["鍾佳濱","黃國昌","沈發惠","莊瑞雄","陳俊宇","林思銘","羅智強","沈伯洋","吳思瑤","陳冠廷","翁曉玲","吳宗憲"],"page_start":229,"meetingDate":["2024-06-06"],"gazette_id":"1135701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135701_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第31次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"併案審查(一)行政院函請審議「通訊保障及監察法部分條文修正草案」案、(二)台灣民眾黨黨團\n擬具「通訊保障及監察法部分條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1135701_00008"}},"transcript":{"id":"153707","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153707","tool":"pyannote","id":"153707-pyannote"},"job_id":"l83o4X3W4uDfc6wg","queued_at":"2024-06-06 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\"只要有關聯性就可以做調取所以我們看到這個法條現在是說有事實主任那檢察官跟司法這個檢察官就可以直接調取那因為這個在之前我們看一下數據就是說大概一年這個其實因為他本來有這個檢察官保留或法官保留的狀況之下我們看這一個核准大概九成九成那跟法官跟檢察官還有一點落差但是一年呢就還是會有400多件是在檢察官或法官還是被駁回\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 34.708, \"end\": 34.928, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 34.928, \"end\": 35.208, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 35.208, \"end\": 35.709, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"聯\"}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 35.709, \"end\": 36.029, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 36.029, \"end\": 36.149, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 36.149, \"end\": 36.229, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 36.229, \"end\": 36.289, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 36.289, \"end\": 36.689, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"取\", \"start\": 36.689, \"end\": 37.13, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 37.13, \"end\": 37.21, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 37.21, \"end\": 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\"end\": 81.688, \"text\": \"現在如果走這一套那這個應該就不止400多件了應該會更多對不對因為畢竟警察人更多嘛所以在這個狀況之下目前我不是說這個完全不行但這個一定要有配套措施還有救濟那這種配套跟救濟現在法務部會怎麼去設計它\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 64.686, \"end\": 64.847, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 64.847, \"end\": 65.047, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 65.047, \"end\": 65.247, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"走\", \"start\": 65.247, \"end\": 65.628, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 65.628, \"end\": 65.788, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"套\", \"start\": 65.788, \"end\": 66.509, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 66.509, \"end\": 67.45, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 67.45, \"end\": 67.59, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 67.59, \"end\": 67.71, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"止\", \"start\": 67.71, \"end\": 68.271, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, 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\"start\": 364.316, \"end\": 364.436, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"注\", \"start\": 364.436, \"end\": 364.556, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 364.556, \"end\": 364.576, \"score\": 0.021}, {\"word\": \"尤\", \"start\": 364.576, \"end\": 364.677, \"score\": 0.755}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 364.677, \"end\": 364.837, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 364.837, \"end\": 365.097, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 365.097, \"end\": 365.237, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 365.237, \"end\": 365.597, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 365.597, \"end\": 365.877, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 365.877, \"end\": 366.117, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 366.117, \"end\": 366.237, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 366.237, \"end\": 366.558, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"沈\", \"start\": 366.558, \"end\": 366.618, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 366.618, \"end\": 366.638, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,806 --> 00:00:06,288\n謝謝主席有請部長謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:11,349 --> 00:00:33,907\n委員好你好部長我今天不會花太多時間因為我大概就只有兩個重點而已因為畢竟這一次的這個通訊保障的地方沒有那麼多那這一次就兩個點第一個當然就是這個使用者資料這一次你們做了一些改變然後再來就是有這個所謂的網路流量紀錄所以我大概就問這兩個點那第一個點就是通訊使用者因為按照現行的法條看起來就是\n\n3\n00:00:34,708 --> 00:01:03,065\n只要有關聯性就可以做調取所以我們看到這個法條現在是說有事實主任那檢察官跟司法這個檢察官就可以直接調取那因為這個在之前我們看一下數據就是說大概一年這個其實因為他本來有這個檢察官保留或法官保留的狀況之下我們看這一個核准大概九成九成那跟法官跟檢察官還有一點落差但是一年呢就還是會有400多件是在檢察官或法官還是被駁回\n\n4\n00:01:04,686 --> 00:01:21,688\n現在如果走這一套那這個應該就不止400多件了應該會更多對不對因為畢竟警察人更多嘛所以在這個狀況之下目前我不是說這個完全不行但這個一定要有配套措施還有救濟那這種配套跟救濟現在法務部會怎麼去設計它\n\n5\n00:01:22,895 --> 00:01:44,060\n那目前我們設計就是其實是我們為什麼使用者資料這是一個身份資料我也都很清楚那所以最基本就是一個開付的一個資料而已就是基本資料那我想這個最隱私權的這個干預是極為輕微那我們為什麼一定要要讓檢警能夠直接去去調取不需要法官的的許可因為這個\n\n6\n00:01:45,970 --> 00:02:10,399\n案件的一個出這一定要特定的一個案件的一個存在然後有他的一個收集的一個必要性對他會有一個案件嗎但是他這個案件本身不是說腐爛的對社會大眾就可以廣泛的說這個這個是要負責任這個是要負民行事或其他的一個責任的這個這個所以這個使用資料不能夠隨便亂掉一定要有前提有案件而且有必要性而且有關聯性常用掉\n\n7\n00:02:11,359 --> 00:02:34,514\n這個案件跟關聯性這件事情因為你可以看到就是說我們左邊這邊是整理了一些新聞就是說之前警察有些濫用個資的狀況那當然我們這些都被辦了對所以目前來講就是說但是因為這個事實存在嘛也就是說當這個制度被推出去之後呢被濫用的可能性會提高所以不管是我覺得剛剛因為剛剛前面我也有提到通知我覺得這個通知不一定是我們要採取的做法但\n\n8\n00:02:35,034 --> 00:03:00,139\n不管是通知還是救濟因為今天如果你沒有前階段的通知你大概也很難去做後面的救濟所以濫權他不一定要在程序上做保障比如說在警察的教育訓練啊什麼等等之類的這一類要因為這個濫權的可能性會很高那如果我們在盤點的狀況之下我覺得這件事情是一定要注意隱私親愛很小這件事情我覺得大概跟等一下我要問的比較不一樣但這件事情我覺得要注意這是第一點\n\n9\n00:03:00,879 --> 00:03:19,917\n第二點就是在這個網路流量資料因為之前我們是有這個最重本刑三年以上這樣的限制那這個限制呢我看修法理由有提到說這個就是會造成一些困擾就是說有些案件沒有辦法辦那現在很麻煩的地方就是說如果這個限制拿掉的話會變成說他\n\n10\n00:03:22,199 --> 00:03:36,100\n因為他本身沒有這個重刑的這個限制或者這種中度案件的限制變成說他現在要做這件事情變得很方便那因為網路流量資料這邊我就不進入細節因為他的這一邊的這個修法有提到這個叫做\n\n11\n00:03:37,762 --> 00:04:06,499\n通訊設備識別資料這個識別資料其實比較不清楚因為他可能包含deviceID他可能包含IMEI他可能也可能有IMSI因為他沒有講清楚所以這些東西如果去跟IP來做拼湊的話這個能夠造成的隱私情案會比較大那我這邊有因為時間的關係我這邊是一個小小的建議就是說因為我知道因為實務上會認為最重本刑三年以上這樣會造成很多案件你們要做這個調查沒辦法調查嘛\n\n12\n00:04:07,660 --> 00:04:27,783\n那能不能用反面排除的比如說我們今天排除最重本刑三年以下那我這樣講是因為量能問題因為如果按照比如說像現在有藐視國會罪那公然侮辱現在比較沒那麼容易成立還有誹謗這些比較輕的犯罪如果全部都可以走這一條路的話他有可能到最後是警方沒有辦法負荷啦\n\n13\n00:04:28,223 --> 00:04:28,924\n因為時間的關係部長就簡短回答一下\n\n14\n00:04:52,441 --> 00:05:11,992\n其實我們是認為有取消這個限制比如說我們那個引誘兒少從事色情業的這個都是很輕如果說這個不拿掉這個都沒辦法掉通年那這個兒少的這個屬於那個從事色情業這一種的這個是我們社會大眾關注的問題那另外像脫逃罪這也是輕罪\n\n15\n00:05:12,492 --> 00:05:39,822\n那個那個這個像我們上次那個殺警案這個如果說沒有掉這個這個這個紀錄的話我們沒辦法即時的去去直接就就就做一個偵查的一個一個啟啟動那會延路時機那我想這個還是有他一個必要性啊那我想我們這部分其實掉這些的資料這是一個爭吵最早最早的一個開端而已至少知道知道希望能夠能夠知道這個這個被告的一個一個身份吼這個基本的一個資料\n\n16\n00:05:40,742 --> 00:06:06,638\n我想這部分對人權的一個侵害非常小而且既以公共利益的維護我們認為是有必要的我覺得兩個點第一個就是說法定刑本身輕重這個必須就是還是要跟隱私清單做衡量這個是還是要做的第二個就是濫權他不一定是在法務部這邊做但就是我剛剛講的他在第一線的教育訓練這件事情可能要跟權這部分我們來加強對這個可能要跨部會要去討論一下就這兩個點我覺得要稍微注意尤其在進入主條的時候好謝謝好謝謝沈委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5806\t6288\t謝謝主席 有請部長 謝謝\n11349\t33907\t委員好你好部長我今天不會花太多時間因為我大概就只有兩個重點而已因為畢竟這一次的這個通訊保障的地方沒有那麼多那這一次就兩個點第一個當然就是這個使用者資料這一次你們做了一些改變然後再來就是有這個所謂的網路流量紀錄所以我大概就問這兩個點那第一個點就是通訊使用者因為按照現行的法條看起來就是\n34708\t63065\t只要有關聯性就可以做調取所以我們看到這個法條現在是說有事實主任那檢察官跟司法這個檢察官就可以直接調取那因為這個在之前我們看一下數據就是說大概一年這個其實因為他本來有這個檢察官保留或法官保留的狀況之下我們看這一個核准大概九成九成那跟法官跟檢察官還有一點落差但是一年呢就還是會有400多件是在檢察官或法官還是被駁回\n64686\t81688\t現在如果走這一套那這個應該就不止400多件了應該會更多對不對因為畢竟警察人更多嘛所以在這個狀況之下目前我不是說這個完全不行但這個一定要有配套措施還有救濟那這種配套跟救濟現在法務部會怎麼去設計它\n82895\t104060\t那目前我們設計就是其實是我們為什麼使用者資料這是一個身份資料我也都很清楚那所以最基本就是一個開付的一個資料而已就是基本資料那我想這個最隱私權的這個干預是極為輕微那我們為什麼一定要要讓檢警能夠直接去去調取不需要法官的的許可因為這個\n105970\t130399\t案件的一個出這一定要特定的一個案件的一個存在然後有他的一個收集的一個必要性對他會有一個案件嗎但是他這個案件本身不是說腐爛的對社會大眾就可以廣泛的說這個這個是要負責任這個是要負民行事或其他的一個責任的這個這個所以這個使用資料不能夠隨便亂掉一定要有前提有案件而且有必要性而且有關聯性常用掉\n131359\t154514\t這個案件跟關聯性這件事情因為你可以看到就是說我們左邊這邊是整理了一些新聞就是說之前警察有些濫用個資的狀況那當然我們 這些都被辦了對所以目前來講就是說但是因為這個事實存在嘛也就是說當這個制度被推出去之後呢被濫用的可能性會提高所以不管是我覺得剛剛因為剛剛前面我也有提到通知我覺得這個通知不一定是我們要採取的做法但\n155034\t180139\t不管是通知還是救濟因為今天如果你沒有前階段的通知你大概也很難去做後面的救濟所以濫權他不一定要在程序上做保障比如說在警察的教育訓練啊什麼等等之類的這一類要因為這個濫權的可能性會很高那如果我們在盤點的狀況之下我覺得這件事情是一定要注意隱私親愛很小這件事情我覺得大概跟等一下我要問的比較不一樣但這件事情我覺得要注意這是第一點\n180879\t199917\t第二點就是在這個網路流量資料因為之前我們是有這個最重本刑三年以上這樣的限制那這個限制呢我看修法理由有提到說這個就是會造成一些困擾就是說有些案件沒有辦法辦那現在很麻煩的地方就是說如果這個限制拿掉的話會變成說他\n202199\t216100\t因為他本身沒有這個重刑的這個限制或者這種中度案件的限制變成說他現在要做這件事情變得很方便那因為網路流量資料這邊我就不進入細節因為他的這一邊的這個修法有提到這個叫做\n217762\t246499\t通訊設備識別資料這個識別資料其實比較不清楚因為他可能包含device ID他可能包含IMEI他可能也可能有IMSI因為他沒有講清楚所以這些東西如果去跟IP來做拼湊的話這個能夠造成的隱私情案會比較大那我這邊有因為時間的關係我這邊是一個小小的建議就是說因為我知道因為實務上會認為最重本刑三年以上這樣會造成很多案件你們要做這個調查沒辦法調查嘛\n247660\t267783\t那能不能用反面排除的比如說我們今天排除最重本刑三年以下那我這樣講是因為量能問題因為如果按照比如說像現在有藐視國會罪那公然侮辱現在比較沒那麼容易成立還有誹謗這些比較輕的犯罪如果全部都可以走這一條路的話他有可能到最後是警方沒有辦法負荷啦\n268223\t268924\t因為時間的關係部長就簡短回答一下\n292441\t311992\t其實我們是認為有取消這個限制比如說我們那個引誘兒少從事色情業的這個都是很輕如果說這個不拿掉這個都沒辦法掉通年那這個兒少的這個屬於那個從事色情業這一種的這個是我們社會大眾關注的問題那另外像脫逃罪這也是輕罪\n312492\t339822\t那個那個這個像我們上次那個殺警案這個如果說沒有掉這個這個這個紀錄的話我們沒辦法即時的去去直接就就就做一個偵查的一個一個啟啟動那會延路時機那我想這個還是有他一個必要性啊那我想我們這部分其實掉這些的資料這是一個爭吵最早最早的一個開端而已至少知道知道希望能夠能夠知道這個這個被告的一個一個身份吼這個基本的一個資料\n340742\t366638\t我想這部分對人權的一個侵害非常小而且既以公共利益的維護我們認為是有必要的我覺得兩個點第一個就是說法定刑本身輕重這個必須就是還是要跟隱私清單做衡量這個是還是要做的第二個就是濫權他不一定是在法務部這邊做但就是我剛剛講的他在第一線的教育訓練這件事情可能要跟權這部分我們來加強對這個可能要跨部會要去討論一下就這兩個點我覺得要稍微注意尤其在進入主條的時候好謝謝好謝謝沈委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請部長 謝謝\n委員好你好部長我今天不會花太多時間因為我大概就只有兩個重點而已因為畢竟這一次的這個通訊保障的地方沒有那麼多那這一次就兩個點第一個當然就是這個使用者資料這一次你們做了一些改變然後再來就是有這個所謂的網路流量紀錄所以我大概就問這兩個點那第一個點就是通訊使用者因為按照現行的法條看起來就是\n只要有關聯性就可以做調取所以我們看到這個法條現在是說有事實主任那檢察官跟司法這個檢察官就可以直接調取那因為這個在之前我們看一下數據就是說大概一年這個其實因為他本來有這個檢察官保留或法官保留的狀況之下我們看這一個核准大概九成九成那跟法官跟檢察官還有一點落差但是一年呢就還是會有400多件是在檢察官或法官還是被駁回\n現在如果走這一套那這個應該就不止400多件了應該會更多對不對因為畢竟警察人更多嘛所以在這個狀況之下目前我不是說這個完全不行但這個一定要有配套措施還有救濟那這種配套跟救濟現在法務部會怎麼去設計它\n那目前我們設計就是其實是我們為什麼使用者資料這是一個身份資料我也都很清楚那所以最基本就是一個開付的一個資料而已就是基本資料那我想這個最隱私權的這個干預是極為輕微那我們為什麼一定要要讓檢警能夠直接去去調取不需要法官的的許可因為這個\n案件的一個出這一定要特定的一個案件的一個存在然後有他的一個收集的一個必要性對他會有一個案件嗎但是他這個案件本身不是說腐爛的對社會大眾就可以廣泛的說這個這個是要負責任這個是要負民行事或其他的一個責任的這個這個所以這個使用資料不能夠隨便亂掉一定要有前提有案件而且有必要性而且有關聯性常用掉\n這個案件跟關聯性這件事情因為你可以看到就是說我們左邊這邊是整理了一些新聞就是說之前警察有些濫用個資的狀況那當然我們 這些都被辦了對所以目前來講就是說但是因為這個事實存在嘛也就是說當這個制度被推出去之後呢被濫用的可能性會提高所以不管是我覺得剛剛因為剛剛前面我也有提到通知我覺得這個通知不一定是我們要採取的做法但\n不管是通知還是救濟因為今天如果你沒有前階段的通知你大概也很難去做後面的救濟所以濫權他不一定要在程序上做保障比如說在警察的教育訓練啊什麼等等之類的這一類要因為這個濫權的可能性會很高那如果我們在盤點的狀況之下我覺得這件事情是一定要注意隱私親愛很小這件事情我覺得大概跟等一下我要問的比較不一樣但這件事情我覺得要注意這是第一點\n第二點就是在這個網路流量資料因為之前我們是有這個最重本刑三年以上這樣的限制那這個限制呢我看修法理由有提到說這個就是會造成一些困擾就是說有些案件沒有辦法辦那現在很麻煩的地方就是說如果這個限制拿掉的話會變成說他\n因為他本身沒有這個重刑的這個限制或者這種中度案件的限制變成說他現在要做這件事情變得很方便那因為網路流量資料這邊我就不進入細節因為他的這一邊的這個修法有提到這個叫做\n通訊設備識別資料這個識別資料其實比較不清楚因為他可能包含device ID他可能包含IMEI他可能也可能有IMSI因為他沒有講清楚所以這些東西如果去跟IP來做拼湊的話這個能夠造成的隱私情案會比較大那我這邊有因為時間的關係我這邊是一個小小的建議就是說因為我知道因為實務上會認為最重本刑三年以上這樣會造成很多案件你們要做這個調查沒辦法調查嘛\n那能不能用反面排除的比如說我們今天排除最重本刑三年以下那我這樣講是因為量能問題因為如果按照比如說像現在有藐視國會罪那公然侮辱現在比較沒那麼容易成立還有誹謗這些比較輕的犯罪如果全部都可以走這一條路的話他有可能到最後是警方沒有辦法負荷啦\n因為時間的關係部長就簡短回答一下\n其實我們是認為有取消這個限制比如說我們那個引誘兒少從事色情業的這個都是很輕如果說這個不拿掉這個都沒辦法掉通年那這個兒少的這個屬於那個從事色情業這一種的這個是我們社會大眾關注的問題那另外像脫逃罪這也是輕罪\n那個那個這個像我們上次那個殺警案這個如果說沒有掉這個這個這個紀錄的話我們沒辦法即時的去去直接就就就做一個偵查的一個一個啟啟動那會延路時機那我想這個還是有他一個必要性啊那我想我們這部分其實掉這些的資料這是一個爭吵最早最早的一個開端而已至少知道知道希望能夠能夠知道這個這個被告的一個一個身份吼這個基本的一個資料\n我想這部分對人權的一個侵害非常小而且既以公共利益的維護我們認為是有必要的我覺得兩個點第一個就是說法定刑本身輕重這個必須就是還是要跟隱私清單做衡量這個是還是要做的第二個就是濫權他不一定是在法務部這邊做但就是我剛剛講的他在第一線的教育訓練這件事情可能要跟權這部分我們來加強對這個可能要跨部會要去討論一下就這兩個點我覺得要稍微注意尤其在進入主條的時候好謝謝好謝謝沈委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.806 --> 00:06.288\n謝謝主席有請部長謝謝\n\n00:11.349 --> 00:33.907\n委員好你好部長我今天不會花太多時間因為我大概就只有兩個重點而已因為畢竟這一次的這個通訊保障的地方沒有那麼多那這一次就兩個點第一個當然就是這個使用者資料這一次你們做了一些改變然後再來就是有這個所謂的網路流量紀錄所以我大概就問這兩個點那第一個點就是通訊使用者因為按照現行的法條看起來就是\n\n00:34.708 --> 01:03.065\n只要有關聯性就可以做調取所以我們看到這個法條現在是說有事實主任那檢察官跟司法這個檢察官就可以直接調取那因為這個在之前我們看一下數據就是說大概一年這個其實因為他本來有這個檢察官保留或法官保留的狀況之下我們看這一個核准大概九成九成那跟法官跟檢察官還有一點落差但是一年呢就還是會有400多件是在檢察官或法官還是被駁回\n\n01:04.686 --> 01:21.688\n現在如果走這一套那這個應該就不止400多件了應該會更多對不對因為畢竟警察人更多嘛所以在這個狀況之下目前我不是說這個完全不行但這個一定要有配套措施還有救濟那這種配套跟救濟現在法務部會怎麼去設計它\n\n01:22.895 --> 01:44.060\n那目前我們設計就是其實是我們為什麼使用者資料這是一個身份資料我也都很清楚那所以最基本就是一個開付的一個資料而已就是基本資料那我想這個最隱私權的這個干預是極為輕微那我們為什麼一定要要讓檢警能夠直接去去調取不需要法官的的許可因為這個\n\n01:45.970 --> 02:10.399\n案件的一個出這一定要特定的一個案件的一個存在然後有他的一個收集的一個必要性對他會有一個案件嗎但是他這個案件本身不是說腐爛的對社會大眾就可以廣泛的說這個這個是要負責任這個是要負民行事或其他的一個責任的這個這個所以這個使用資料不能夠隨便亂掉一定要有前提有案件而且有必要性而且有關聯性常用掉\n\n02:11.359 --> 02:34.514\n這個案件跟關聯性這件事情因為你可以看到就是說我們左邊這邊是整理了一些新聞就是說之前警察有些濫用個資的狀況那當然我們這些都被辦了對所以目前來講就是說但是因為這個事實存在嘛也就是說當這個制度被推出去之後呢被濫用的可能性會提高所以不管是我覺得剛剛因為剛剛前面我也有提到通知我覺得這個通知不一定是我們要採取的做法但\n\n02:35.034 --> 03:00.139\n不管是通知還是救濟因為今天如果你沒有前階段的通知你大概也很難去做後面的救濟所以濫權他不一定要在程序上做保障比如說在警察的教育訓練啊什麼等等之類的這一類要因為這個濫權的可能性會很高那如果我們在盤點的狀況之下我覺得這件事情是一定要注意隱私親愛很小這件事情我覺得大概跟等一下我要問的比較不一樣但這件事情我覺得要注意這是第一點\n\n03:00.879 --> 03:19.917\n第二點就是在這個網路流量資料因為之前我們是有這個最重本刑三年以上這樣的限制那這個限制呢我看修法理由有提到說這個就是會造成一些困擾就是說有些案件沒有辦法辦那現在很麻煩的地方就是說如果這個限制拿掉的話會變成說他\n\n03:22.199 --> 03:36.100\n因為他本身沒有這個重刑的這個限制或者這種中度案件的限制變成說他現在要做這件事情變得很方便那因為網路流量資料這邊我就不進入細節因為他的這一邊的這個修法有提到這個叫做\n\n03:37.762 --> 04:06.499\n通訊設備識別資料這個識別資料其實比較不清楚因為他可能包含deviceID他可能包含IMEI他可能也可能有IMSI因為他沒有講清楚所以這些東西如果去跟IP來做拼湊的話這個能夠造成的隱私情案會比較大那我這邊有因為時間的關係我這邊是一個小小的建議就是說因為我知道因為實務上會認為最重本刑三年以上這樣會造成很多案件你們要做這個調查沒辦法調查嘛\n\n04:07.660 --> 04:27.783\n那能不能用反面排除的比如說我們今天排除最重本刑三年以下那我這樣講是因為量能問題因為如果按照比如說像現在有藐視國會罪那公然侮辱現在比較沒那麼容易成立還有誹謗這些比較輕的犯罪如果全部都可以走這一條路的話他有可能到最後是警方沒有辦法負荷啦\n\n04:28.223 --> 04:28.924\n因為時間的關係部長就簡短回答一下\n\n04:52.441 --> 05:11.992\n其實我們是認為有取消這個限制比如說我們那個引誘兒少從事色情業的這個都是很輕如果說這個不拿掉這個都沒辦法掉通年那這個兒少的這個屬於那個從事色情業這一種的這個是我們社會大眾關注的問題那另外像脫逃罪這也是輕罪\n\n05:12.492 --> 05:39.822\n那個那個這個像我們上次那個殺警案這個如果說沒有掉這個這個這個紀錄的話我們沒辦法即時的去去直接就就就做一個偵查的一個一個啟啟動那會延路時機那我想這個還是有他一個必要性啊那我想我們這部分其實掉這些的資料這是一個爭吵最早最早的一個開端而已至少知道知道希望能夠能夠知道這個這個被告的一個一個身份吼這個基本的一個資料\n\n05:40.742 --> 06:06.638\n我想這部分對人權的一個侵害非常小而且既以公共利益的維護我們認為是有必要的我覺得兩個點第一個就是說法定刑本身輕重這個必須就是還是要跟隱私清單做衡量這個是還是要做的第二個就是濫權他不一定是在法務部這邊做但就是我剛剛講的他在第一線的教育訓練這件事情可能要跟權這部分我們來加強對這個可能要跨部會要去討論一下就這兩個點我覺得要稍微注意尤其在進入主條的時候好謝謝好謝謝沈委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.806,"end":6.288,"text":"謝謝主席 有請部長 謝謝"},{"start":11.349,"end":33.907,"text":"委員好你好部長我今天不會花太多時間因為我大概就只有兩個重點而已因為畢竟這一次的這個通訊保障的地方沒有那麼多那這一次就兩個點第一個當然就是這個使用者資料這一次你們做了一些改變然後再來就是有這個所謂的網路流量紀錄所以我大概就問這兩個點那第一個點就是通訊使用者因為按照現行的法條看起來就是"},{"start":34.708,"end":63.065,"text":"只要有關聯性就可以做調取所以我們看到這個法條現在是說有事實主任那檢察官跟司法這個檢察官就可以直接調取那因為這個在之前我們看一下數據就是說大概一年這個其實因為他本來有這個檢察官保留或法官保留的狀況之下我們看這一個核准大概九成九成那跟法官跟檢察官還有一點落差但是一年呢就還是會有400多件是在檢察官或法官還是被駁回"},{"start":64.686,"end":81.688,"text":"現在如果走這一套那這個應該就不止400多件了應該會更多對不對因為畢竟警察人更多嘛所以在這個狀況之下目前我不是說這個完全不行但這個一定要有配套措施還有救濟那這種配套跟救濟現在法務部會怎麼去設計它"},{"start":82.895,"end":104.06,"text":"那目前我們設計就是其實是我們為什麼使用者資料這是一個身份資料我也都很清楚那所以最基本就是一個開付的一個資料而已就是基本資料那我想這個最隱私權的這個干預是極為輕微那我們為什麼一定要要讓檢警能夠直接去去調取不需要法官的的許可因為這個"},{"start":105.97,"end":130.399,"text":"案件的一個出這一定要特定的一個案件的一個存在然後有他的一個收集的一個必要性對他會有一個案件嗎但是他這個案件本身不是說腐爛的對社會大眾就可以廣泛的說這個這個是要負責任這個是要負民行事或其他的一個責任的這個這個所以這個使用資料不能夠隨便亂掉一定要有前提有案件而且有必要性而且有關聯性常用掉"},{"start":131.359,"end":154.514,"text":"這個案件跟關聯性這件事情因為你可以看到就是說我們左邊這邊是整理了一些新聞就是說之前警察有些濫用個資的狀況那當然我們 這些都被辦了對所以目前來講就是說但是因為這個事實存在嘛也就是說當這個制度被推出去之後呢被濫用的可能性會提高所以不管是我覺得剛剛因為剛剛前面我也有提到通知我覺得這個通知不一定是我們要採取的做法但"},{"start":155.034,"end":180.139,"text":"不管是通知還是救濟因為今天如果你沒有前階段的通知你大概也很難去做後面的救濟所以濫權他不一定要在程序上做保障比如說在警察的教育訓練啊什麼等等之類的這一類要因為這個濫權的可能性會很高那如果我們在盤點的狀況之下我覺得這件事情是一定要注意隱私親愛很小這件事情我覺得大概跟等一下我要問的比較不一樣但這件事情我覺得要注意這是第一點"},{"start":180.879,"end":199.917,"text":"第二點就是在這個網路流量資料因為之前我們是有這個最重本刑三年以上這樣的限制那這個限制呢我看修法理由有提到說這個就是會造成一些困擾就是說有些案件沒有辦法辦那現在很麻煩的地方就是說如果這個限制拿掉的話會變成說他"},{"start":202.199,"end":216.1,"text":"因為他本身沒有這個重刑的這個限制或者這種中度案件的限制變成說他現在要做這件事情變得很方便那因為網路流量資料這邊我就不進入細節因為他的這一邊的這個修法有提到這個叫做"},{"start":217.762,"end":246.499,"text":"通訊設備識別資料這個識別資料其實比較不清楚因為他可能包含device ID他可能包含IMEI他可能也可能有IMSI因為他沒有講清楚所以這些東西如果去跟IP來做拼湊的話這個能夠造成的隱私情案會比較大那我這邊有因為時間的關係我這邊是一個小小的建議就是說因為我知道因為實務上會認為最重本刑三年以上這樣會造成很多案件你們要做這個調查沒辦法調查嘛"},{"start":247.66,"end":267.783,"text":"那能不能用反面排除的比如說我們今天排除最重本刑三年以下那我這樣講是因為量能問題因為如果按照比如說像現在有藐視國會罪那公然侮辱現在比較沒那麼容易成立還有誹謗這些比較輕的犯罪如果全部都可以走這一條路的話他有可能到最後是警方沒有辦法負荷啦"},{"start":268.223,"end":268.924,"text":"因為時間的關係部長就簡短回答一下"},{"start":292.441,"end":311.992,"text":"其實我們是認為有取消這個限制比如說我們那個引誘兒少從事色情業的這個都是很輕如果說這個不拿掉這個都沒辦法掉通年那這個兒少的這個屬於那個從事色情業這一種的這個是我們社會大眾關注的問題那另外像脫逃罪這也是輕罪"},{"start":312.492,"end":339.822,"text":"那個那個這個像我們上次那個殺警案這個如果說沒有掉這個這個這個紀錄的話我們沒辦法即時的去去直接就就就做一個偵查的一個一個啟啟動那會延路時機那我想這個還是有他一個必要性啊那我想我們這部分其實掉這些的資料這是一個爭吵最早最早的一個開端而已至少知道知道希望能夠能夠知道這個這個被告的一個一個身份吼這個基本的一個資料"},{"start":340.742,"end":366.638,"text":"我想這部分對人權的一個侵害非常小而且既以公共利益的維護我們認為是有必要的我覺得兩個點第一個就是說法定刑本身輕重這個必須就是還是要跟隱私清單做衡量這個是還是要做的第二個就是濫權他不一定是在法務部這邊做但就是我剛剛講的他在第一線的教育訓練這件事情可能要跟權這部分我們來加強對這個可能要跨部會要去討論一下就這兩個點我覺得要稍微注意尤其在進入主條的時候好謝謝好謝謝沈委員"}]}}}}