{"id":153721,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153721","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0d7b1f4370c473d55a7a8c83f3a47de379f99d17e212a418ee56b966b91e1130e719f831ea1415b15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林淑芬","委員發言時間":"10:59:09 - 11:17:24","影片長度":"00:18:15","會議時間":"2024-06-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長就「廢棄物暫存量逐年攀升，廢棄物處理政策短中長程規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【6月5日及6日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-06","start_time":"2024-06-06T10:59:09+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-06T11:17:24+08:00","duration":1095,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-20"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":575,"blocks":[["林委員淑芬：（10時59分）主席，各位大家午安。是不是請彭部長？"],["主席：請彭部長。"],["彭部長啓明：林委員好。"],["林委員淑芬：部長你好。到目前為止，我們衛環委員會的三個部長，看得出來你真的是相當、相當認真，這一點我還是要給你肯定。但是部長，你在新上任召開記者會的時候宣布了四大重點政策，其中一個政策是空氣品質標準的再檢討，你所使用的語言是說：會想辦法像擰毛巾一樣再擰出一點進步的可能。你是這樣說的吧？"],["彭部長啓明：是。"],["林委員淑芬：我今天就要跟你討論「如何再更用力地擰毛巾，擰出更乾淨的空氣」，我想你講這個在上任後幕僚應該已經跟你講了，在你上任以前的4月29號環境部就預告修正空氣品質的標準草案，其中PM2.5的標準，年平均值將由每立方米15微克加嚴到12微克，24小時的平均值仍然維持每立方米35微克。但是我今天要跟你講，空氣品質標準會連動到空氣品質指標的AQI，AQI不管是綠燈、黃燈、橘燈，對人民感受來講，最直接看的絕對不是你的空氣品質標準，而是看AQI指標。民眾日常呼吸防護上，我們就是依據你的AQI指標，你們在2022年委託民調公司調查，民眾感受到空氣品質變化的主要依據，除了天空目測的能見度、環境的異味還有身體到底有沒有不舒服以外，其實就是根據你們公布的空氣品質指標或監測值來作為一個依據。在這種狀況裡面，現行的AQI標準你們這次都沒有動、沒有修嘛！你們現在是空氣品質標準有一個預告要修正，但你的AQI指標目前沒有動，在沒有動的狀況裡面，PM2.5 24小時平均15.4微克/每立方米裡面都叫做良好的空氣品質，只有超過到橘燈才會對人體健康不好。","我今天要跟你講的是2018年國衛院跟你們共同發表了PM2.5細懸浮微粒特徵對民眾健康影響的研究，這是國衛院的本土研究，它透過減量成本和健康效益評估發現，全臺灣PM2.5的濃度減量到15微克/立方米的時候，可以避免1,843人中風，可以讓166人急性心肌梗塞避免掉，可以減少568個肺癌，712位慢性阻塞性肺病的個案可以避免發生，可以增進2萬7,210年的平均餘命，可以增進3萬0,282年的健康人生，可以節省健保29億8,000萬元。如果把它降到10微克/立方米的標準以下的話，肺癌可以避免的死亡人數是638人；在15微克/立方米的標準下，可以減少死亡345人。10微克/立方米是可以少死638人，15微克/立方米只剩下345人，我要講這個的意思是說，只差5微克/立方米就可以避免死亡人數少一倍，所以你說空氣品質標準重不重要？很重要，因為你國家的標準定在哪裡，決定了國民的健康啊！健康攸關著每一個家庭，也關係到健保的支出，所以這份國衛院的報告在2018年的建議，PM2.5對健康的影響，在相當低的濃度仍有作用，都應該要降到WHO標準年平均10微克/立方米，日平均25微克/立方米。","這是國衛院的報告，它還是建議我們，年平均還是應該要10微克/立方米，而日平均應該要是25微克/立方米。國衛院建議的這個WHO的標準，事實上人家WHO的標準都變了，WHO的標準變成年平均是5微克/立方米，但是一天24小時的平均是15微克/立方米，4年過去了，他們已經變了，但是我們要追上WHO的舊標準，我們都還只能看著他們的車尾燈，還是一樣在追車尾燈，部長，你說。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，第一個……"],["林委員淑芬：還看不到喔！"],["彭部長啓明：對，第一個，WHO是一個建議的標準，目前還沒有一個國家真的用5微克/立方米當成一個指標。"],["林委員淑芬：對啦，但我在講的時候，看上一次人家是年平均10微克/立方米，日平均25微克/立方米。"],["彭部長啓明：10微克/立方米也是我想達到的目標，但問題是，以我們現在的幾個空品區來看，花東這麼乾淨的地方也只有7到8微克/立方米；西半部這麼密集，過去8年從20微克/立方米降到十三點多微克/立方米，大概降了7微克/立方米左右，其實花了滿多錢的，我跟我同事……"],["林委員淑芬：沒有啦，沒有從20微克/立方米降到十三點多微克/立方米，北部空品區是12.2微克/立方米，竹苗是13微克/立方米，中部是16.5微克/立方米，雲嘉南是18.6微克/立方米，高屏是17.5微克/立方米。"],["彭部長啓明：對，我是說全國平均，全國大概在13微克/立方米左右。"],["林委員淑芬：你直接這樣跟高雄人、雲嘉南的人、中部的人講，他們可能也覺得觀感不太好。"],["彭部長啓明：我們當然是希望大家能夠一起降下來，例如中南部，因為它大氣的條件比較穩定，沒辦法，那個地方就很高，當然我也必須說，污染源也滿多的，所以這個就是我們要一起努力的。我現在……"],["林委員淑芬：但是你現在……他們已經預告的這個變成12跟24小時，一天平均值是35微克/立方米，你有什麼想法？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員……"],["林委員淑芬：你說還要再用力地擰毛巾，擰出好的空氣品質，你有什麼想法？"],["彭部長啓明：第一個是，我們對未來的排放量、污染排放量的推估，以前我們是用……"],["林委員淑芬：我是在講標準，我就講這個標準！"],["彭部長啓明：標準？"],["林委員淑芬：我現在跟你講，你讓我再說一下，不好意思，因為你講遠了，而我時間有限。我的意思是說，你把15微克/立方米降到12微克/立方米，年平均量看起來好像是進步的，可是你24小時、一天的平均值仍然維持在35微克/立方米，這是什麼概念？這個概念很簡單，因為它是一個總量的概念，你一整天吸進去的還是35微克/立方米，所以根據你們上個月發布最新的112年空氣品質監測年報顯示，全臺灣平均是13.7微克/立方米，但是扣除掉陽明站、三義站、恆春站的測值以後，事實上你們的年平均濃度是14.2微克/立方米，而且都還比111年上升，111年是13.1微克/立方米，結果你們112年的濃度是14.2微克/立方米。當然，花東地區我們就不要講了，在這種狀況裡面，你們只有修正這個年平均值，對於一天24小時，你沒有修正，你這個是維持原狀，根本沒有用力擰毛巾，這樣子不算用力擰毛巾啦！看不出來有用力擰毛巾，要擰出好的空氣品質的感覺，沒有進步的誠意。"],["彭部長啓明：委員，那是4月底公布的，6月應該會再修正，我們會有一些進步的空間存在。"],["林委員淑芬：那我再跟你講AQI好了，AQI指標對應到PM2.5  24小時的平均值，將PM2.5 15微克/立方米顯示為良好，你們早已經不符合公共衛生裡面，所有學界研究的科學事實了，你們的AQI指標都不動，結果你說，24小時平均值只要PM2.5在15微克/立方米裡面的都叫做空氣品質良好，但事實上就不是啊！人家公衛的學者說，這樣子對健康的影響就很大了，所以錯誤的良好燈號，讓我們民眾誤判，也沒有因應空氣品質採取正確的應對方式，造成我們民眾的健康防護上的缺漏。","我要舉一個美國的例子為例，美國基於人體健康的這個研究證據，今年2月已經將PM2.5的年均標準值下修為9微克/立方米，同時在5月開始更新他們的AQI指標，PM2.5要在9微克/立方米以下才會顯示為空氣優良的綠色。依據美國環保署的說法，它說他們也是這樣做健康研究，預計調整以後，可望在2032年前增進460億美金的淨健康效益，包括防止4,500人過早死亡，避免29萬個工作天的損失，美國的國家環保局認為對健康空氣投資的每一塊美元，就會產出77美元的效益，投入資源來改善空污是增進全民健康的關鍵，尤其是跟空污相關的死亡率及慢性病，都造成我國醫療資源龐大的負擔，不要忘了，我們的氣管、支氣管和肺癌仍然是臺灣癌症死亡的第一位。我們現在講，確實就是預防勝於治療，你要在健保上支出，不如把這個錢花在空氣污染防制上面，所以在這裡呼籲政府，不要讓污染成本消耗過多的健保資源。","你們大氣司的張副司長以前跟媒體講過，根據國衛院的研究成果，考量到防制成本和經濟效益，所以你們修正的草案才會變成24小時、一天還是維持35微克，雖然年平均值從15μg/m3變成12μg/m3，但我們希望部長考慮的不是只有產業的經濟效益，而是應該再考慮到促進國人全民健康所省下的醫療資源負擔及健保成本，真的是隱性的成本，還有社會裡面為這種慢性病所支付的社會成本真的很高。所以部長，我是希望你在這裡可以承諾我們，用擰毛巾的方式想辦法真正的去加嚴空氣品質，包括降低PM2.5的年平均值以外，還有我剛剛講的24小時的平均值、一天的平均值，不能再繼續維持在35微克，而且跟它聯動的AQI指標也要一併調整，讓民眾真正可以瞭解當下的空品狀況，讓我們可以自己做出健康防護，可以嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：委員，我已經在擬了，再給我一點點時間，新的數據大概會出來。"],["林委員淑芬：好。抱歉，我再講一個議題，這個也很重要，跟空污也有關係，從燃煤到SRF，我們建議都應該要建置有害空氣污染物HAPs的測站，因為根據空氣品質監測站設置及監測準則，空品測站的設置和站址的選擇要反映全國性、跨縣市及空氣品質狀況為目的。所以考量要設置在哪裡，包括這個監測站要監測什麼種類，包括污染源的分布、類型、污染物的濃度等等，考量很多，所以你們的監測有很多種監測，包括一般空氣品質監測、工業區空氣品質監測、交通空氣品質監測、國家公園空氣品質監測、環境背景空氣品質監測，還有其他空氣品質監測站，甚至要瞭解特殊污染，還有建置任務型的監測站，還有光化測站、特殊工業區監測站、河川揚塵監測、大氣遙測等等。","但是我今天要跟你講的是，根據環保署委託中研院在2023年所做出來的112年度細懸浮微粒PM2.5化學成分監測及分析計畫指出，他們去監測很多煙道，煙道裡面測出塑化劑（DEHP），這個報告指出煙道採樣採出塑化劑（DEHP），他們提出一個疑問，這是不是跟SRF的使用有關，而且要持續去追蹤和釐清。部長，這件事情為什麼這麼嚴重，你知道嗎？資源循環燃料正在使用，而且是你的重大政策，即將要取代部分的燃煤，現在空品的測站都是為了燃煤的空品在做設置和管制，然後去因應，之後變成SRF要取代掉很一大部分，那麼你現在的測站還有檢驗的方法等等，都不足以因應資源循環燃料（SRF）所造成的空氣污染。","第二個，不要講固定污染源，連移動污染源，像柴油車，也會排放有害的空氣污染物，而我們國內的環境大氣對於HAPs的監測站，就是監測有害空氣污染物的測站都是設置在工業區，去監測他們的排放，但是除了我剛剛講的固定污染源以外，還有交通污染源，還有其他小型的面源，它是溢散出來的，還有都會區裡面的受體，造成民眾暴露在這種有害的空氣污染物裡面，環境部在這部分其實是沒有足夠的監測，所以我在這裡要建議環境部，要設置全國重要性的HAPs的有害空氣污染物的空氣品質監測網絡，包括設置國家型有害空氣污染物的趨勢測站，包括要選定特定區域設置區域任務型的有害空氣品質測站，要監測重要的HAPs的物種。以美國聯邦環保署來講，有害空氣污染物監測的概念書裡面就建議，其實不是建置在污染源的旁邊，而是應該要以污染源對受體的影響，所以不是建置在靠近大型污染源的測點，而應以社區、學校、鄰近污染源的受體，你的選擇是要以具代表性的測點作為測站的位置，而且要定期監測，調整監測區位，確保民眾的健康。","所以我今天跟你講這兩件事情就是空品標準、AQI指標，再來就是因應SRF，你們要讓它取代部分的燃煤，那你的監測、你的管制的方法其實都應該要對應出來，我認為你是認真的人，而且你就宣示說你要擰毛巾，所以我們希望部長讓我們看到你願意擰毛巾、擰出更乾淨的空氣的誠意出來。"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝委員。報告委員，有關SRF我的確去看了，您說的問題的確正在發生當中，我也承諾，我們會有一個SRF營運體檢的輔導團，針對所有的廠，從分裝到最後燃燒，以及最後的大氣品質，會全面的體檢，大概三個月內……"],["林委員淑芬：所有的廠是什麼意思？"],["彭部長啓明：就是包含它的分裝，還有最後的燃燒……"],["林委員淑芬：不是，我們不是講SRF的建置廠，而是講使用所有SRF燃料的生產單位。"],["彭部長啓明：對，生產單位，所以你剛才講到最後一個……"],["林委員淑芬：它現在研究就是有塑化劑（DEHP）啊！"],["彭部長啓明：這個我們會再來研究一下，因為這個我們過去沒有……"],["林委員淑芬：問題很嚴重喔！空氣裡面連塑化劑都來了。"],["彭部長啓明：好，這個我們會去研究一下，再給委員報告。"],["林委員淑芬：好，你認真研究一下，謝謝。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林淑芬委員的發言。我現在在這邊作一個宣告：等一下在洪申翰委員質詢結束後處理臨時提案。","現在請廖偉翔委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":218,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-20","speakers":["黃秀芳","盧縣一","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","王正旭","賴惠員","牛煦庭","林淑芬","廖偉翔","洪申翰","劉建國","陳冠廷","林俊憲","陳瑩","葉元之","楊曜","王育敏","鍾佳濱","涂權吉"],"page_start":131,"meetingDate":["2024-06-06"],"gazette_id":"1136001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136001_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長就「廢棄物暫存量逐年攀升，廢棄物處理政策短中長程規劃」進行專題報告，並\n備質詢","agenda_id":"1136001_00003"}},"transcript":{"id":"153721","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153721","tool":"pyannote","id":"153721-pyannote"},"job_id":"sCdyJTCLcaB5xupR","queued_at":"2024-06-06 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\"start\": 1073.599, \"end\": 1073.779, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"淑\", \"start\": 1073.779, \"end\": 1073.799, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"芬\", \"start\": 1073.799, \"end\": 1073.92, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1073.92, \"end\": 1073.94, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1073.94, \"end\": 1074.0, \"score\": 0.646}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 1074.0, \"end\": 1074.02, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,517 --> 00:00:08,786\n主席各位大家午安是不是請我們這個彭部長請彭部長\n\n2\n00:00:12,915 --> 00:00:32,696\n林委員好部長你好到目前為止我們衛網委員會三個部長看得出來你真的是相當相當的認真這一點我還是要給你肯定但是部長你在新上任的時候你召開記者會的時候宣布了四大重點政策其中一個政策是空氣品質標準的再檢討\n\n3\n00:00:35,499 --> 00:00:51,400\n你所使用的語言是說你會想辦法像擰毛巾一樣再擰出一點進步的可能你是這樣說的吧?是是那我今天就要跟你討論如何再更用力的擰毛巾擰出更乾淨的空氣\n\n4\n00:00:52,481 --> 00:01:13,549\n那我想你講這個應該上任前啦幕僚上任後啦幕僚應該已經跟你講了在你上任以前的4月29號環境部就預告修正空氣品質的標準草案其中這個PM2.5的標準年平均值要將由每立方米15微克加鹽到12微克\n\n5\n00:01:16,710 --> 00:01:27,354\n但是24小時的平均值仍然維持每立法米35維克但是呢我今天要跟你講就空氣品質標準他會連動到空氣品質指標的AQI\n\n6\n00:01:33,513 --> 00:01:33,533\n拜訪議員\n\n7\n00:01:51,664 --> 00:02:09,466\n那你們呢在2022年委託了民調公司調查那民眾感受到空氣品質變化的主要依據除了天空目測的能見度環境的意味還有身體到底有沒有不舒服以外其實它就是根據你們公布的空氣品質\n\n8\n00:02:10,768 --> 00:02:10,968\n林淑芬議員\n\n9\n00:02:41,789 --> 00:03:02,421\n那只有超過到橘燈才會對人體健康不好但是呢我今天跟你講是因為2018年國衛院跟你們共同發表了PM2.5氣旋伏為例特徵對民眾健康影響的研究國衛院本土研究\n\n10\n00:03:03,899 --> 00:03:09,683\n他透過減量成本和健康效益評估發現全台灣PM2.5的濃度減量到15維克一立方米的時候那他可以避免1843個中風可以讓166個急性心肌梗塞避免掉可以減少568個肺癌可以712位的慢性阻塞肺病的個案可以避免發生\n\n11\n00:03:34,479 --> 00:04:01,240\n那可以增進27210年的平均餘命可以增進30282年的健康人生而可以節省健保29億8千萬元肺癌可以避免的死亡數如果把它降到10維克每立方米的標準以下的話它避免的死亡人數是638人\n\n12\n00:04:03,542 --> 00:04:22,792\n然後在15維克他標準下他是可以減少死亡345人那10維克是可以少死638個15維克是只剩下345個所以要講這個是說只差5維克就可以避免死亡人數就可以少一倍這樣子\n\n13\n00:04:24,468 --> 00:04:33,958\n所以這個你說空氣品質標準重不重要很重要因為你國家的標準定在哪裡決定了國民的健康啊那健康攸關了每一個家庭啊\n\n14\n00:04:38,464 --> 00:05:03,973\n那也關係到健保的支出啊所以這個國會院的報告在2018年的建議對PM2.5對健康的影響在相當低的濃度能有作用都應該要降到WHO標準年平均10維克日平均25維克這是國會院的報告他還是建議我們說我們的年平均還是應該要10維克而日平均應該是25維克\n\n15\n00:05:08,394 --> 00:05:25,952\n那事實上WHO的這個標準,國會院建議的這個WHO的這個標準事實上人家WHO的標準都變了WHO的標準變成說年平均是5維克但是一天24小時的平均是15維克\n\n16\n00:05:28,134 --> 00:05:30,635\n他們已經變了這4年過去了但是我們要追上WHO的舊標準我們的阿旺只能看著他們的車尾燈還是一樣在追車尾燈捏部長你說還看不到喔\n\n17\n00:05:45,863 --> 00:06:06,161\n對,第一個WHO是一個建議的標準目前還沒有一個國家真的用5維克單純是一個指標那我在講說看上一次的人家在那個10維克還有日平均25維克10維克也是我想達到的目標但是問題是說我們現在以現在我們幾個空品去來看花東\n\n18\n00:06:07,802 --> 00:06:24,595\n這麼乾淨的地方也只有7到8那我們西半部這麼密集那我們過去呢這個8年從20大概降到13點多大概降了7左右7維克左右其實花了蠻多錢的沒有啦20沒有降到13點多啦北部空瓶區12點2竹藐13啦中部16點5雲嘉南是8點6高屏17點5啦\n\n19\n00:06:30,419 --> 00:06:31,860\n但是你現在他們已經預告的這個變成\n\n20\n00:07:00,793 --> 00:07:24,889\n十二跟二十四小時一天平均值三十五維克你有什麼想法?你說他在用力的擰毛巾擰出好的空氣品質你有什麼想法?第一個是說我們對未來的這個排放量污染的排放量的推估以前我們是用直接展覽的方式我現在講標準你就講這個標準我現在跟你講你讓我再說一下不好意思因為你講遠我時間有限\n\n21\n00:07:26,770 --> 00:07:41,037\n我意思是說你把15維克降到12維克年平均量看起來好像是進步的可是呢可是呢你24小時一天的平均值仍然維持35維克這有什麼概念這個概念很簡單啊因為它是一個總量的概念你一整天你吸進去的還是35維克啊\n\n22\n00:07:48,061 --> 00:07:56,265\n所以根據你們上個月發布的最新的112年空氣品質監測年報顯示你們雖然全台灣平均是13.7但是扣除掉陽明站、三義站、恆春站的測值以後事實上你們的年平均濃度是14.2而且都還比111年上升\n\n23\n00:08:11,391 --> 00:08:34,072\n一百一十一年是十三點一結果你一百一十二年的濃度是十四點二而且當然我們講花東地區都不要講啦所以在這種狀況裡面你們只有修正這個年平均值對於一天二十四小時你沒有修正你這個是為此原狀根本沒有用力擰毛巾\n\n24\n00:08:35,174 --> 00:08:41,101\n這樣子不算用力擰毛巾啊看不出來有用力擰毛巾要擰出好的空氣品質的感覺那沒有進步的誠意\n\n25\n00:08:44,130 --> 00:09:08,335\n有啦,委員那個是4月底公佈的啦。5月我們會,6月應該會再修正啦。我們會有一些進步的空間會存在啦。好,那我再跟你講AQI好了。AQI指標它對應到PM2.524小時的平均值。然後將PM2.515微克顯示為良好。你們早已經不符合公共衛生裡面所有學界研究的科學事實了。\n\n26\n00:09:08,875 --> 00:09:25,581\n你們的AQI指標都不動結果你說24小時平均值只要是15維克裡面的PM2.515維克都叫做空氣品質良好事實上就不是啊人家公衛的學者說這樣子對健康影響就很大了啊\n\n27\n00:09:26,221 --> 00:09:45,475\n所以錯誤的良好的燈號讓我們民眾誤判也沒有因應空氣品質採取正確的應對方式造成我們民眾的健康防護上的缺漏我要舉一個美國為例美國基於人體健康這個研究證據在今年2月已經將PM2.5的年均標準值下修為9維克同時在5月開始更新他們的AQI指標\n\n28\n00:09:55,302 --> 00:10:18,591\nPM2.5要在9維克以下才會顯示為空氣優良的綠色那依據美國環保署的說法他說他們也是這樣做啊做健康研究預計調整以後可望在2032年前增進460億美金的近健康效益包括防止4500人過早死亡\n\n29\n00:10:20,552 --> 00:10:49,295\n避免29萬個工作天的損失美國的國家環保局認為對健康空氣投資每一塊錢的美元就會產出77美元的效益投入資源來改善空污是增進全民健康的關鍵尤其是跟空污相關的死亡率還有慢性病都造成我國醫療龐大的這個資源的負擔不要忘了我們的氣管支氣管和肺癌\n\n30\n00:10:50,095 --> 00:11:09,993\n當然是台灣癌症死亡的第一位那我們現在講確實就是預防勝於治療嘛你要在健保上支出不如把這個錢花在我們的這個空氣防治上面所以在這裡呼籲政府不要讓污染成本消耗過多的健保資源那\n\n31\n00:11:10,774 --> 00:11:30,824\n你們的大棄屍以前張副司長跟媒體講過根據國衛院的這個研究成果考量到防治成本和經濟效益所以你們修正了草案才會變成24小時一天還是維持35維克雖然年平均值從15變成12但我們希望\n\n32\n00:11:31,164 --> 00:11:52,119\n部長你考慮的不是只有產業的經濟效益而是應該再講促進國人全民健康所省下來醫療資源負擔及這個健保成本真的是隱性的成本還有社會裡面每個為這種慢性病所支付的社會成本真的很高所以部長我是希望你在這裡可以承諾我們\n\n33\n00:11:53,180 --> 00:12:09,750\n用擰毛巾的方式想辦法加嚴真正的去加嚴空氣品質包括過降低PM2.5的年平均值以外還要我剛剛講的24小時的平均值一天的平均值不能再繼續維持在35維克\n\n34\n00:12:12,452 --> 00:12:28,171\n而且他跟他聯動的AQI指標也要一併調整讓我們民眾真正可以瞭解當下的空瓶狀況而讓我們可以自己做出健康防護可以嗎委員我已經在擰了再給我一點點時間新的數據大概會出來\n\n35\n00:12:29,833 --> 00:12:45,614\n抱歉我再講一個議題這個也是很重要因為就是說跟空污有關就從燃煤到SRF我們要建議都應該要建制有害空氣污染物HPS的策戰因為\n\n36\n00:12:46,195 --> 00:12:49,977\n根據空氣品質監測站設置及監測標準我們這個空品測站的設置和站址的這個選擇要反映全國性跨縣市及空氣品質變化趨勢為目的所以考量要設置在哪裡包括這個監測站要監測什麼種類包括污染源的分布類型污染物的濃度等等所以你們是考量很多所以你們的監測有很多種監測嘛包括\n\n37\n00:13:15,692 --> 00:13:22,196\n您們的一般空氣品質監測工業區的空氣品質監測交通的空氣品質監測國家公園空氣品質監測還有環境背景的空氣品質監測還有其他空氣品質監測站甚至呢要了解特殊污染的建置的還有任務型的監測站然後光化測站特殊工業區監測站河川陽城監測大氣窯測等等但是呢我今天要跟你講的是根據環保署委託中研院\n\n38\n00:13:45,752 --> 00:13:57,160\n在2023年所做出來的一百一十二年度系選府為例PM2.5化學成分監測及分析計劃指出我現在講喔他們去監測很多煙道煙道裡面測出BEHP塑化劑\n\n39\n00:14:09,761 --> 00:14:25,051\n這個報告指出煙道採樣採出DEHP塑化劑他們提出一個疑問這是不是跟SRF的使用有關而且要持續去追蹤和釐清那這事情為什麼這麼嚴重你知道嗎部長\n\n40\n00:14:26,358 --> 00:14:41,789\n資源循環燃料它正在而且是你的重大政策即將要取代部分的燃煤現在空品的策戰都是為了燃煤的空品在做的設置和管制然後去因應\n\n41\n00:14:42,890 --> 00:14:57,398\n那你SRF要變成很大一部分要取代掉一大部分的那麼它你現在的策戰還有檢驗的方法等等都不足以因應支援循環燃料就SRF所造成的空氣汙染第二個\n\n42\n00:14:58,939 --> 00:15:05,585\n不要講這個固定污染源連移動污染源像柴油車也會排放這個有害的空氣污染物而我們國內環境大氣對於這個HAPS的監測站就是監測有害空氣污染物的這個測站的設置都是設在工業區去看到排放\n\n43\n00:15:20,399 --> 00:15:35,357\n但是除了我剛剛講固定污染源以外還有交通污染源還有其他小型的麵源它是溢散出來的還有多位區裡面的受體造成民眾暴露在這種有害的空氣污染物裡面\n\n44\n00:15:36,138 --> 00:15:52,027\n那我們環境部在這一部分其實是沒有足夠的監測的都沒有所以我在這裡要建議環境部要設置全國重要性的HAPS的有害空氣污染物的空氣品質監測網路包括設置國家型的有害空氣污染物的趨勢策戰\n\n45\n00:15:57,910 --> 00:16:21,656\n包括要選定特定區域設置區域任務型的有害空氣品質測算要監測重要的HA、PS的物種那以美國聯邦這個環保署來講有害空氣污染物的監測的概念書裡面他就建議其實不是建置在污染源的旁邊而是應該要以受體\n\n46\n00:16:22,756 --> 00:16:31,501\n他對於污染、污染源對受體的影響所以不是建置在靠近大型污染源的策點而應以社區、學校、鄰近污染源的受體就是我會呼吸到這個受體他要據你的選擇要具代表性的策點\n\n47\n00:16:43,587 --> 00:17:06,889\n做為策戰的這個位置而且要定期監測調整監測區位確保這個民眾的健康所以我今天跟你講這兩件事情就是空瓶標準然後AQI指標再來就是因應SRF你們要讓他取代部分的燃煤那你的監測你的這個這個管制的方法其實都應該要對應出來\n\n48\n00:17:09,071 --> 00:17:12,634\n所以我在我認為你是認真的人而且你就宣誓說你要擰毛巾所以我們希望部長給我們看到你願意擰毛巾擰出更乾淨的空氣的誠意出來\n\n49\n00:17:24,462 --> 00:17:53,079\n好謝謝委員我不知道委員那個SRF吼我的確去看了您說的問題的確正在發生當中那我也承諾我們會有一個SRF的營運體檢的輔導團針對所有的廠從這個分裝到最後燃燒最後的大氣品質會全面的體檢大概三個月內所有的廠是什麼意思就是包含它的這個分裝還有最後燃燒不是餒我們不是講SRF這個建築廠對對對我有提這個SRF他是講使用了所有SRF的這個燃料的\n\n50\n00:17:53,599 --> 00:17:54,020\n謝謝林淑芬委員的發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5517\t8786\t主席 各位大家午安 是不是請我們這個彭部長請彭部長\n12915\t32696\t林委員好部長你好到目前為止我們衛網委員會三個部長看得出來你真的是相當相當的認真這一點我還是要給你肯定但是部長你在新上任的時候你召開記者會的時候宣布了四大重點政策其中一個政策是空氣品質標準的再檢討\n35499\t51400\t你所使用的語言是說你會想辦法像擰毛巾一樣再擰出一點進步的可能你是這樣說的吧?是是那我今天就要跟你討論如何再更用力的擰毛巾擰出更乾淨的空氣\n52481\t73549\t那我想你講這個應該上任前啦幕僚上任後啦幕僚應該已經跟你講了在你上任以前的4月29號環境部就預告修正空氣品質的標準草案其中這個PM2.5的標準年平均值要將由每立方米15微克加鹽到12微克\n76710\t87354\t但是24小時的平均值仍然維持每立法米35維克但是呢我今天要跟你講就空氣品質標準他會連動到空氣品質指標的AQI\n93513\t93533\t拜訪議員\n111664\t129466\t那你們呢在2022年委託了民調公司調查那民眾感受到空氣品質變化的主要依據除了天空目測的能見度環境的意味還有身體到底有沒有不舒服以外其實它就是根據你們公布的空氣品質\n130768\t130968\t林淑芬議員\n161789\t182421\t那只有超過到橘燈才會對人體健康不好但是呢我今天跟你講是因為2018年國衛院跟你們共同發表了PM2.5氣旋伏為例特徵對民眾健康影響的研究國衛院本土研究\n183899\t189683\t他透過減量成本和健康效益評估發現全台灣PM2.5的濃度減量到15維克一立方米的時候那他可以避免1843個中風可以讓166個急性心肌梗塞避免掉可以減少568個肺癌可以712位的慢性阻塞肺病的個案可以避免發生\n214479\t241240\t那可以增進27210年的平均餘命可以增進30282年的健康人生而可以節省健保29億8千萬元肺癌可以避免的死亡數如果把它降到10維克每立方米的標準以下的話它避免的死亡人數是638人\n243542\t262792\t然後在15維克他標準下他是可以減少死亡345人那10維克是可以少死638個15維克是只剩下345個所以要講這個是說只差5維克就可以避免死亡人數就可以少一倍這樣子\n264468\t273958\t所以這個你說 空氣品質標準重不重要 很重要因為你國家的標準定在哪裡決定了國民的健康啊 那健康攸關了每一個家庭啊\n278464\t303973\t那也關係到健保的支出啊所以這個國會院的報告在2018年的建議對PM2.5對健康的影響在相當低的濃度能有作用都應該要降到WHO標準年平均10維克日平均25維克這是國會院的報告他還是建議我們說我們的年平均還是應該要10維克而日平均應該是25維克\n308394\t325952\t那事實上WHO的這個標準,國會院建議的這個WHO的這個標準事實上人家WHO的標準都變了WHO的標準變成說年平均是5維克但是一天24小時的平均是15維克\n328134\t330635\t他們已經變了這4年過去了但是我們要追上WHO的舊標準我們的阿旺只能看著他們的車尾燈還是一樣在追車尾燈捏部長你說還看不到喔\n345863\t366161\t對,第一個WHO是一個建議的標準目前還沒有一個國家真的用5維克單純是一個指標那我在講說看上一次的人家在那個10維克還有日平均25維克10維克也是我想達到的目標但是問題是說我們現在以現在我們幾個空品去來看花東\n367802\t384595\t這麼乾淨的地方也只有7到8那我們西半部這麼密集那我們過去呢這個8年從20大概降到13點多大概降了7左右7維克左右其實花了蠻多錢的沒有啦20沒有降到13點多啦北部空瓶區12點2竹藐13啦中部16點5雲嘉南是8點6高屏17點5啦\n390419\t391860\t但是你現在他們已經預告的這個變成\n420793\t444889\t十二跟二十四小時一天平均值三十五維克你有什麼想法?你說他在用力的擰毛巾擰出好的空氣品質你有什麼想法?第一個是說我們對未來的這個排放量污染的排放量的推估以前我們是用直接展覽的方式我現在講標準你就講這個標準我現在跟你講你讓我再說一下不好意思因為你講遠我時間有限\n446770\t461037\t我意思是說你把15維克降到12維克年平均量看起來好像是進步的可是呢可是呢你24小時一天的平均值仍然維持35維克這有什麼概念這個概念很簡單啊因為它是一個總量的概念你一整天你吸進去的還是35維克啊\n468061\t476265\t所以根據你們上個月發布的最新的112年空氣品質監測年報顯示你們雖然全台灣平均是13.7但是扣除掉陽明站、三義站、恆春站的測值以後事實上你們的年平均濃度是14.2而且都還比111年上升\n491391\t514072\t一百一十一年是十三點一結果你一百一十二年的濃度是十四點二而且當然我們講花東地區都不要講啦所以在這種狀況裡面你們只有修正這個年平均值對於一天二十四小時你沒有修正你這個是為此原狀根本沒有用力擰毛巾\n515174\t521101\t這樣子不算用力擰毛巾啊看不出來有用力擰毛巾要擰出好的空氣品質的感覺那沒有進步的誠意\n524130\t548335\t有啦,委員那個是4月底公佈的啦。5月我們會,6月應該會再修正啦。我們會有一些進步的空間會存在啦。好,那我再跟你講AQI好了。AQI指標它對應到PM2.5 24小時的平均值。然後將PM2.5 15微克顯示為良好。你們早已經不符合公共衛生裡面所有學界研究的科學事實了。\n548875\t565581\t你們的AQI指標都不動結果你說24小時平均值只要是15維克裡面的PM2.515維克都叫做空氣品質良好事實上就不是啊人家公衛的學者說這樣子對健康影響就很大了啊\n566221\t585475\t所以錯誤的良好的燈號讓我們民眾誤判也沒有因應空氣品質採取正確的應對方式造成我們民眾的健康防護上的缺漏我要舉一個美國為例美國基於人體健康這個研究證據在今年2月已經將PM2.5的年均標準值下修為9維克同時在5月開始更新他們的AQI指標\n595302\t618591\tPM2.5要在9維克以下才會顯示為空氣優良的綠色那依據美國環保署的說法他說他們也是這樣做啊做健康研究預計調整以後可望在2032年前增進460億美金的近健康效益包括防止4500人過早死亡\n620552\t649295\t避免29萬個工作天的損失美國的國家環保局認為對健康空氣投資每一塊錢的美元就會產出77美元的效益投入資源來改善空污是增進全民健康的關鍵尤其是跟空污相關的死亡率還有慢性病都造成我國醫療龐大的這個資源的負擔不要忘了我們的氣管支氣管和肺癌\n650095\t669993\t當然是台灣癌症死亡的第一位那我們現在講確實就是預防勝於治療嘛你要在健保上支出不如把這個錢花在我們的這個空氣防治上面所以在這裡呼籲政府不要讓污染成本消耗過多的健保資源那\n670774\t690824\t你們的大棄屍以前張副司長跟媒體講過根據國衛院的這個研究成果考量到防治成本和經濟效益所以你們修正了草案才會變成24小時一天還是維持35維克雖然年平均值從15變成12但我們希望\n691164\t712119\t部長你考慮的不是只有產業的經濟效益而是應該再講促進國人全民健康所省下來醫療資源負擔及這個健保成本真的是隱性的成本還有社會裡面每個為這種慢性病所支付的社會成本真的很高所以部長我是希望你在這裡可以承諾我們\n713180\t729750\t用擰毛巾的方式想辦法加嚴真正的去加嚴空氣品質包括過降低PM2.5的年平均值以外還要我剛剛講的24小時的平均值一天的平均值不能再繼續維持在35維克\n732452\t748171\t而且他跟他聯動的AQI指標也要一併調整讓我們民眾真正可以瞭解當下的空瓶狀況而讓我們可以自己做出健康防護可以嗎委員我已經在擰了再給我一點點時間新的數據大概會出來\n749833\t765614\t抱歉我再講一個議題這個也是很重要因為就是說跟空污有關就從燃煤到SRF我們要建議都應該要建制有害空氣污染物HPS的策戰因為\n766195\t769977\t根據空氣品質監測站設置及監測標準我們這個空品測站的設置和站址的這個選擇要反映全國性跨縣市及空氣品質變化趨勢為目的所以考量要設置在哪裡包括這個監測站要監測什麼種類包括污染源的分布類型污染物的濃度等等所以你們是考量很多所以你們的監測有很多種監測嘛包括\n795692\t802196\t您們的一般空氣品質監測工業區的空氣品質監測交通的空氣品質監測國家公園空氣品質監測還有環境背景的空氣品質監測還有其他空氣品質監測站甚至呢要了解特殊污染的建置的還有任務型的監測站然後光化測站特殊工業區監測站河川陽城監測大氣窯測等等但是呢我今天要跟你講的是根據環保署委託中研院\n825752\t837160\t在2023年所做出來的一百一十二年度系選府為例PM2.5化學成分監測及分析計劃指出我現在講喔他們去監測很多煙道煙道裡面測出BEHP塑化劑\n849761\t865051\t這個報告指出煙道採樣採出DEHP塑化劑他們提出一個疑問這是不是跟SRF的使用有關而且要持續去追蹤和釐清那這事情為什麼這麼嚴重你知道嗎部長\n866358\t881789\t資源循環燃料它正在而且是你的重大政策即將要取代部分的燃煤現在空品的策戰都是為了燃煤的空品在做的設置和管制然後去因應\n882890\t897398\t那你SRF要變成很大一部分要取代掉一大部分的那麼它你現在的策戰還有檢驗的方法等等都不足以因應支援循環燃料就SRF所造成的空氣汙染第二個\n898939\t905585\t不要講這個固定污染源連移動污染源像柴油車也會排放這個有害的空氣污染物而我們國內環境大氣對於這個HAPS的監測站就是監測有害空氣污染物的這個測站的設置都是設在工業區去看到排放\n920399\t935357\t但是除了我剛剛講固定污染源以外還有交通污染源還有其他小型的麵源它是溢散出來的還有多位區裡面的受體造成民眾暴露在這種有害的空氣污染物裡面\n936138\t952027\t那我們環境部在這一部分其實是沒有足夠的監測的都沒有所以我在這裡要建議環境部要設置全國重要性的HAPS的有害空氣污染物的空氣品質監測網路包括設置國家型的有害空氣污染物的趨勢策戰\n957910\t981656\t包括要選定特定區域設置區域任務型的有害空氣品質測算要監測重要的HA、PS的物種那以美國聯邦這個環保署來講有害空氣污染物的監測的概念書裡面他就建議其實不是建置在污染源的旁邊而是應該要以受體\n982756\t991501\t他對於污染、污染源對受體的影響所以不是建置在靠近大型污染源的策點而應以社區、學校、鄰近污染源的受體就是我會呼吸到這個受體他要據你的選擇要具代表性的策點\n1003587\t1026889\t做為策戰的這個位置而且要定期監測調整監測區位確保這個民眾的健康所以我今天跟你講這兩件事情就是空瓶標準然後AQI指標再來就是因應SRF你們要讓他取代部分的燃煤那你的監測你的這個這個管制的方法其實都應該要對應出來\n1029071\t1032634\t所以我在我認為你是認真的人而且你就宣誓說你要擰毛巾所以我們希望部長給我們看到你願意擰毛巾擰出更乾淨的空氣的誠意出來\n1044462\t1073079\t好 謝謝委員 我不知道委員那個SRF吼我的確去看了您說的問題的確正在發生當中那我也承諾我們會有一個SRF的營運體檢的輔導團針對所有的廠從這個分裝到最後燃燒最後的大氣品質會全面的體檢大概三個月內所有的廠是什麼意思就是包含它的這個分裝還有最後燃燒不是餒 我們不是講SRF這個建築廠對對對我有提這個SRF他是講使用了所有SRF的這個燃料的\n1073599\t1074020\t謝謝林淑芬委員的發言\n","txt":"主席 各位大家午安 是不是請我們這個彭部長請彭部長\n林委員好部長你好到目前為止我們衛網委員會三個部長看得出來你真的是相當相當的認真這一點我還是要給你肯定但是部長你在新上任的時候你召開記者會的時候宣布了四大重點政策其中一個政策是空氣品質標準的再檢討\n你所使用的語言是說你會想辦法像擰毛巾一樣再擰出一點進步的可能你是這樣說的吧?是是那我今天就要跟你討論如何再更用力的擰毛巾擰出更乾淨的空氣\n那我想你講這個應該上任前啦幕僚上任後啦幕僚應該已經跟你講了在你上任以前的4月29號環境部就預告修正空氣品質的標準草案其中這個PM2.5的標準年平均值要將由每立方米15微克加鹽到12微克\n但是24小時的平均值仍然維持每立法米35維克但是呢我今天要跟你講就空氣品質標準他會連動到空氣品質指標的AQI\n拜訪議員\n那你們呢在2022年委託了民調公司調查那民眾感受到空氣品質變化的主要依據除了天空目測的能見度環境的意味還有身體到底有沒有不舒服以外其實它就是根據你們公布的空氣品質\n林淑芬議員\n那只有超過到橘燈才會對人體健康不好但是呢我今天跟你講是因為2018年國衛院跟你們共同發表了PM2.5氣旋伏為例特徵對民眾健康影響的研究國衛院本土研究\n他透過減量成本和健康效益評估發現全台灣PM2.5的濃度減量到15維克一立方米的時候那他可以避免1843個中風可以讓166個急性心肌梗塞避免掉可以減少568個肺癌可以712位的慢性阻塞肺病的個案可以避免發生\n那可以增進27210年的平均餘命可以增進30282年的健康人生而可以節省健保29億8千萬元肺癌可以避免的死亡數如果把它降到10維克每立方米的標準以下的話它避免的死亡人數是638人\n然後在15維克他標準下他是可以減少死亡345人那10維克是可以少死638個15維克是只剩下345個所以要講這個是說只差5維克就可以避免死亡人數就可以少一倍這樣子\n所以這個你說 空氣品質標準重不重要 很重要因為你國家的標準定在哪裡決定了國民的健康啊 那健康攸關了每一個家庭啊\n那也關係到健保的支出啊所以這個國會院的報告在2018年的建議對PM2.5對健康的影響在相當低的濃度能有作用都應該要降到WHO標準年平均10維克日平均25維克這是國會院的報告他還是建議我們說我們的年平均還是應該要10維克而日平均應該是25維克\n那事實上WHO的這個標準,國會院建議的這個WHO的這個標準事實上人家WHO的標準都變了WHO的標準變成說年平均是5維克但是一天24小時的平均是15維克\n他們已經變了這4年過去了但是我們要追上WHO的舊標準我們的阿旺只能看著他們的車尾燈還是一樣在追車尾燈捏部長你說還看不到喔\n對,第一個WHO是一個建議的標準目前還沒有一個國家真的用5維克單純是一個指標那我在講說看上一次的人家在那個10維克還有日平均25維克10維克也是我想達到的目標但是問題是說我們現在以現在我們幾個空品去來看花東\n這麼乾淨的地方也只有7到8那我們西半部這麼密集那我們過去呢這個8年從20大概降到13點多大概降了7左右7維克左右其實花了蠻多錢的沒有啦20沒有降到13點多啦北部空瓶區12點2竹藐13啦中部16點5雲嘉南是8點6高屏17點5啦\n但是你現在他們已經預告的這個變成\n十二跟二十四小時一天平均值三十五維克你有什麼想法?你說他在用力的擰毛巾擰出好的空氣品質你有什麼想法?第一個是說我們對未來的這個排放量污染的排放量的推估以前我們是用直接展覽的方式我現在講標準你就講這個標準我現在跟你講你讓我再說一下不好意思因為你講遠我時間有限\n我意思是說你把15維克降到12維克年平均量看起來好像是進步的可是呢可是呢你24小時一天的平均值仍然維持35維克這有什麼概念這個概念很簡單啊因為它是一個總量的概念你一整天你吸進去的還是35維克啊\n所以根據你們上個月發布的最新的112年空氣品質監測年報顯示你們雖然全台灣平均是13.7但是扣除掉陽明站、三義站、恆春站的測值以後事實上你們的年平均濃度是14.2而且都還比111年上升\n一百一十一年是十三點一結果你一百一十二年的濃度是十四點二而且當然我們講花東地區都不要講啦所以在這種狀況裡面你們只有修正這個年平均值對於一天二十四小時你沒有修正你這個是為此原狀根本沒有用力擰毛巾\n這樣子不算用力擰毛巾啊看不出來有用力擰毛巾要擰出好的空氣品質的感覺那沒有進步的誠意\n有啦,委員那個是4月底公佈的啦。5月我們會,6月應該會再修正啦。我們會有一些進步的空間會存在啦。好,那我再跟你講AQI好了。AQI指標它對應到PM2.5 24小時的平均值。然後將PM2.5 15微克顯示為良好。你們早已經不符合公共衛生裡面所有學界研究的科學事實了。\n你們的AQI指標都不動結果你說24小時平均值只要是15維克裡面的PM2.515維克都叫做空氣品質良好事實上就不是啊人家公衛的學者說這樣子對健康影響就很大了啊\n所以錯誤的良好的燈號讓我們民眾誤判也沒有因應空氣品質採取正確的應對方式造成我們民眾的健康防護上的缺漏我要舉一個美國為例美國基於人體健康這個研究證據在今年2月已經將PM2.5的年均標準值下修為9維克同時在5月開始更新他們的AQI指標\nPM2.5要在9維克以下才會顯示為空氣優良的綠色那依據美國環保署的說法他說他們也是這樣做啊做健康研究預計調整以後可望在2032年前增進460億美金的近健康效益包括防止4500人過早死亡\n避免29萬個工作天的損失美國的國家環保局認為對健康空氣投資每一塊錢的美元就會產出77美元的效益投入資源來改善空污是增進全民健康的關鍵尤其是跟空污相關的死亡率還有慢性病都造成我國醫療龐大的這個資源的負擔不要忘了我們的氣管支氣管和肺癌\n當然是台灣癌症死亡的第一位那我們現在講確實就是預防勝於治療嘛你要在健保上支出不如把這個錢花在我們的這個空氣防治上面所以在這裡呼籲政府不要讓污染成本消耗過多的健保資源那\n你們的大棄屍以前張副司長跟媒體講過根據國衛院的這個研究成果考量到防治成本和經濟效益所以你們修正了草案才會變成24小時一天還是維持35維克雖然年平均值從15變成12但我們希望\n部長你考慮的不是只有產業的經濟效益而是應該再講促進國人全民健康所省下來醫療資源負擔及這個健保成本真的是隱性的成本還有社會裡面每個為這種慢性病所支付的社會成本真的很高所以部長我是希望你在這裡可以承諾我們\n用擰毛巾的方式想辦法加嚴真正的去加嚴空氣品質包括過降低PM2.5的年平均值以外還要我剛剛講的24小時的平均值一天的平均值不能再繼續維持在35維克\n而且他跟他聯動的AQI指標也要一併調整讓我們民眾真正可以瞭解當下的空瓶狀況而讓我們可以自己做出健康防護可以嗎委員我已經在擰了再給我一點點時間新的數據大概會出來\n抱歉我再講一個議題這個也是很重要因為就是說跟空污有關就從燃煤到SRF我們要建議都應該要建制有害空氣污染物HPS的策戰因為\n根據空氣品質監測站設置及監測標準我們這個空品測站的設置和站址的這個選擇要反映全國性跨縣市及空氣品質變化趨勢為目的所以考量要設置在哪裡包括這個監測站要監測什麼種類包括污染源的分布類型污染物的濃度等等所以你們是考量很多所以你們的監測有很多種監測嘛包括\n您們的一般空氣品質監測工業區的空氣品質監測交通的空氣品質監測國家公園空氣品質監測還有環境背景的空氣品質監測還有其他空氣品質監測站甚至呢要了解特殊污染的建置的還有任務型的監測站然後光化測站特殊工業區監測站河川陽城監測大氣窯測等等但是呢我今天要跟你講的是根據環保署委託中研院\n在2023年所做出來的一百一十二年度系選府為例PM2.5化學成分監測及分析計劃指出我現在講喔他們去監測很多煙道煙道裡面測出BEHP塑化劑\n這個報告指出煙道採樣採出DEHP塑化劑他們提出一個疑問這是不是跟SRF的使用有關而且要持續去追蹤和釐清那這事情為什麼這麼嚴重你知道嗎部長\n資源循環燃料它正在而且是你的重大政策即將要取代部分的燃煤現在空品的策戰都是為了燃煤的空品在做的設置和管制然後去因應\n那你SRF要變成很大一部分要取代掉一大部分的那麼它你現在的策戰還有檢驗的方法等等都不足以因應支援循環燃料就SRF所造成的空氣汙染第二個\n不要講這個固定污染源連移動污染源像柴油車也會排放這個有害的空氣污染物而我們國內環境大氣對於這個HAPS的監測站就是監測有害空氣污染物的這個測站的設置都是設在工業區去看到排放\n但是除了我剛剛講固定污染源以外還有交通污染源還有其他小型的麵源它是溢散出來的還有多位區裡面的受體造成民眾暴露在這種有害的空氣污染物裡面\n那我們環境部在這一部分其實是沒有足夠的監測的都沒有所以我在這裡要建議環境部要設置全國重要性的HAPS的有害空氣污染物的空氣品質監測網路包括設置國家型的有害空氣污染物的趨勢策戰\n包括要選定特定區域設置區域任務型的有害空氣品質測算要監測重要的HA、PS的物種那以美國聯邦這個環保署來講有害空氣污染物的監測的概念書裡面他就建議其實不是建置在污染源的旁邊而是應該要以受體\n他對於污染、污染源對受體的影響所以不是建置在靠近大型污染源的策點而應以社區、學校、鄰近污染源的受體就是我會呼吸到這個受體他要據你的選擇要具代表性的策點\n做為策戰的這個位置而且要定期監測調整監測區位確保這個民眾的健康所以我今天跟你講這兩件事情就是空瓶標準然後AQI指標再來就是因應SRF你們要讓他取代部分的燃煤那你的監測你的這個這個管制的方法其實都應該要對應出來\n所以我在我認為你是認真的人而且你就宣誓說你要擰毛巾所以我們希望部長給我們看到你願意擰毛巾擰出更乾淨的空氣的誠意出來\n好 謝謝委員 我不知道委員那個SRF吼我的確去看了您說的問題的確正在發生當中那我也承諾我們會有一個SRF的營運體檢的輔導團針對所有的廠從這個分裝到最後燃燒最後的大氣品質會全面的體檢大概三個月內所有的廠是什麼意思就是包含它的這個分裝還有最後燃燒不是餒 我們不是講SRF這個建築廠對對對我有提這個SRF他是講使用了所有SRF的這個燃料的\n謝謝林淑芬委員的發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.517 --> 00:08.786\n主席各位大家午安是不是請我們這個彭部長請彭部長\n\n00:12.915 --> 00:32.696\n林委員好部長你好到目前為止我們衛網委員會三個部長看得出來你真的是相當相當的認真這一點我還是要給你肯定但是部長你在新上任的時候你召開記者會的時候宣布了四大重點政策其中一個政策是空氣品質標準的再檢討\n\n00:35.499 --> 00:51.400\n你所使用的語言是說你會想辦法像擰毛巾一樣再擰出一點進步的可能你是這樣說的吧?是是那我今天就要跟你討論如何再更用力的擰毛巾擰出更乾淨的空氣\n\n00:52.481 --> 01:13.549\n那我想你講這個應該上任前啦幕僚上任後啦幕僚應該已經跟你講了在你上任以前的4月29號環境部就預告修正空氣品質的標準草案其中這個PM2.5的標準年平均值要將由每立方米15微克加鹽到12微克\n\n01:16.710 --> 01:27.354\n但是24小時的平均值仍然維持每立法米35維克但是呢我今天要跟你講就空氣品質標準他會連動到空氣品質指標的AQI\n\n01:33.513 --> 01:33.533\n拜訪議員\n\n01:51.664 --> 02:09.466\n那你們呢在2022年委託了民調公司調查那民眾感受到空氣品質變化的主要依據除了天空目測的能見度環境的意味還有身體到底有沒有不舒服以外其實它就是根據你們公布的空氣品質\n\n02:10.768 --> 02:10.968\n林淑芬議員\n\n02:41.789 --> 03:02.421\n那只有超過到橘燈才會對人體健康不好但是呢我今天跟你講是因為2018年國衛院跟你們共同發表了PM2.5氣旋伏為例特徵對民眾健康影響的研究國衛院本土研究\n\n03:03.899 --> 03:09.683\n他透過減量成本和健康效益評估發現全台灣PM2.5的濃度減量到15維克一立方米的時候那他可以避免1843個中風可以讓166個急性心肌梗塞避免掉可以減少568個肺癌可以712位的慢性阻塞肺病的個案可以避免發生\n\n03:34.479 --> 04:01.240\n那可以增進27210年的平均餘命可以增進30282年的健康人生而可以節省健保29億8千萬元肺癌可以避免的死亡數如果把它降到10維克每立方米的標準以下的話它避免的死亡人數是638人\n\n04:03.542 --> 04:22.792\n然後在15維克他標準下他是可以減少死亡345人那10維克是可以少死638個15維克是只剩下345個所以要講這個是說只差5維克就可以避免死亡人數就可以少一倍這樣子\n\n04:24.468 --> 04:33.958\n所以這個你說空氣品質標準重不重要很重要因為你國家的標準定在哪裡決定了國民的健康啊那健康攸關了每一個家庭啊\n\n04:38.464 --> 05:03.973\n那也關係到健保的支出啊所以這個國會院的報告在2018年的建議對PM2.5對健康的影響在相當低的濃度能有作用都應該要降到WHO標準年平均10維克日平均25維克這是國會院的報告他還是建議我們說我們的年平均還是應該要10維克而日平均應該是25維克\n\n05:08.394 --> 05:25.952\n那事實上WHO的這個標準,國會院建議的這個WHO的這個標準事實上人家WHO的標準都變了WHO的標準變成說年平均是5維克但是一天24小時的平均是15維克\n\n05:28.134 --> 05:30.635\n他們已經變了這4年過去了但是我們要追上WHO的舊標準我們的阿旺只能看著他們的車尾燈還是一樣在追車尾燈捏部長你說還看不到喔\n\n05:45.863 --> 06:06.161\n對,第一個WHO是一個建議的標準目前還沒有一個國家真的用5維克單純是一個指標那我在講說看上一次的人家在那個10維克還有日平均25維克10維克也是我想達到的目標但是問題是說我們現在以現在我們幾個空品去來看花東\n\n06:07.802 --> 06:24.595\n這麼乾淨的地方也只有7到8那我們西半部這麼密集那我們過去呢這個8年從20大概降到13點多大概降了7左右7維克左右其實花了蠻多錢的沒有啦20沒有降到13點多啦北部空瓶區12點2竹藐13啦中部16點5雲嘉南是8點6高屏17點5啦\n\n06:30.419 --> 06:31.860\n但是你現在他們已經預告的這個變成\n\n07:00.793 --> 07:24.889\n十二跟二十四小時一天平均值三十五維克你有什麼想法?你說他在用力的擰毛巾擰出好的空氣品質你有什麼想法?第一個是說我們對未來的這個排放量污染的排放量的推估以前我們是用直接展覽的方式我現在講標準你就講這個標準我現在跟你講你讓我再說一下不好意思因為你講遠我時間有限\n\n07:26.770 --> 07:41.037\n我意思是說你把15維克降到12維克年平均量看起來好像是進步的可是呢可是呢你24小時一天的平均值仍然維持35維克這有什麼概念這個概念很簡單啊因為它是一個總量的概念你一整天你吸進去的還是35維克啊\n\n07:48.061 --> 07:56.265\n所以根據你們上個月發布的最新的112年空氣品質監測年報顯示你們雖然全台灣平均是13.7但是扣除掉陽明站、三義站、恆春站的測值以後事實上你們的年平均濃度是14.2而且都還比111年上升\n\n08:11.391 --> 08:34.072\n一百一十一年是十三點一結果你一百一十二年的濃度是十四點二而且當然我們講花東地區都不要講啦所以在這種狀況裡面你們只有修正這個年平均值對於一天二十四小時你沒有修正你這個是為此原狀根本沒有用力擰毛巾\n\n08:35.174 --> 08:41.101\n這樣子不算用力擰毛巾啊看不出來有用力擰毛巾要擰出好的空氣品質的感覺那沒有進步的誠意\n\n08:44.130 --> 09:08.335\n有啦,委員那個是4月底公佈的啦。5月我們會,6月應該會再修正啦。我們會有一些進步的空間會存在啦。好,那我再跟你講AQI好了。AQI指標它對應到PM2.524小時的平均值。然後將PM2.515微克顯示為良好。你們早已經不符合公共衛生裡面所有學界研究的科學事實了。\n\n09:08.875 --> 09:25.581\n你們的AQI指標都不動結果你說24小時平均值只要是15維克裡面的PM2.515維克都叫做空氣品質良好事實上就不是啊人家公衛的學者說這樣子對健康影響就很大了啊\n\n09:26.221 --> 09:45.475\n所以錯誤的良好的燈號讓我們民眾誤判也沒有因應空氣品質採取正確的應對方式造成我們民眾的健康防護上的缺漏我要舉一個美國為例美國基於人體健康這個研究證據在今年2月已經將PM2.5的年均標準值下修為9維克同時在5月開始更新他們的AQI指標\n\n09:55.302 --> 10:18.591\nPM2.5要在9維克以下才會顯示為空氣優良的綠色那依據美國環保署的說法他說他們也是這樣做啊做健康研究預計調整以後可望在2032年前增進460億美金的近健康效益包括防止4500人過早死亡\n\n10:20.552 --> 10:49.295\n避免29萬個工作天的損失美國的國家環保局認為對健康空氣投資每一塊錢的美元就會產出77美元的效益投入資源來改善空污是增進全民健康的關鍵尤其是跟空污相關的死亡率還有慢性病都造成我國醫療龐大的這個資源的負擔不要忘了我們的氣管支氣管和肺癌\n\n10:50.095 --> 11:09.993\n當然是台灣癌症死亡的第一位那我們現在講確實就是預防勝於治療嘛你要在健保上支出不如把這個錢花在我們的這個空氣防治上面所以在這裡呼籲政府不要讓污染成本消耗過多的健保資源那\n\n11:10.774 --> 11:30.824\n你們的大棄屍以前張副司長跟媒體講過根據國衛院的這個研究成果考量到防治成本和經濟效益所以你們修正了草案才會變成24小時一天還是維持35維克雖然年平均值從15變成12但我們希望\n\n11:31.164 --> 11:52.119\n部長你考慮的不是只有產業的經濟效益而是應該再講促進國人全民健康所省下來醫療資源負擔及這個健保成本真的是隱性的成本還有社會裡面每個為這種慢性病所支付的社會成本真的很高所以部長我是希望你在這裡可以承諾我們\n\n11:53.180 --> 12:09.750\n用擰毛巾的方式想辦法加嚴真正的去加嚴空氣品質包括過降低PM2.5的年平均值以外還要我剛剛講的24小時的平均值一天的平均值不能再繼續維持在35維克\n\n12:12.452 --> 12:28.171\n而且他跟他聯動的AQI指標也要一併調整讓我們民眾真正可以瞭解當下的空瓶狀況而讓我們可以自己做出健康防護可以嗎委員我已經在擰了再給我一點點時間新的數據大概會出來\n\n12:29.833 --> 12:45.614\n抱歉我再講一個議題這個也是很重要因為就是說跟空污有關就從燃煤到SRF我們要建議都應該要建制有害空氣污染物HPS的策戰因為\n\n12:46.195 --> 12:49.977\n根據空氣品質監測站設置及監測標準我們這個空品測站的設置和站址的這個選擇要反映全國性跨縣市及空氣品質變化趨勢為目的所以考量要設置在哪裡包括這個監測站要監測什麼種類包括污染源的分布類型污染物的濃度等等所以你們是考量很多所以你們的監測有很多種監測嘛包括\n\n13:15.692 --> 13:22.196\n您們的一般空氣品質監測工業區的空氣品質監測交通的空氣品質監測國家公園空氣品質監測還有環境背景的空氣品質監測還有其他空氣品質監測站甚至呢要了解特殊污染的建置的還有任務型的監測站然後光化測站特殊工業區監測站河川陽城監測大氣窯測等等但是呢我今天要跟你講的是根據環保署委託中研院\n\n13:45.752 --> 13:57.160\n在2023年所做出來的一百一十二年度系選府為例PM2.5化學成分監測及分析計劃指出我現在講喔他們去監測很多煙道煙道裡面測出BEHP塑化劑\n\n14:09.761 --> 14:25.051\n這個報告指出煙道採樣採出DEHP塑化劑他們提出一個疑問這是不是跟SRF的使用有關而且要持續去追蹤和釐清那這事情為什麼這麼嚴重你知道嗎部長\n\n14:26.358 --> 14:41.789\n資源循環燃料它正在而且是你的重大政策即將要取代部分的燃煤現在空品的策戰都是為了燃煤的空品在做的設置和管制然後去因應\n\n14:42.890 --> 14:57.398\n那你SRF要變成很大一部分要取代掉一大部分的那麼它你現在的策戰還有檢驗的方法等等都不足以因應支援循環燃料就SRF所造成的空氣汙染第二個\n\n14:58.939 --> 15:05.585\n不要講這個固定污染源連移動污染源像柴油車也會排放這個有害的空氣污染物而我們國內環境大氣對於這個HAPS的監測站就是監測有害空氣污染物的這個測站的設置都是設在工業區去看到排放\n\n15:20.399 --> 15:35.357\n但是除了我剛剛講固定污染源以外還有交通污染源還有其他小型的麵源它是溢散出來的還有多位區裡面的受體造成民眾暴露在這種有害的空氣污染物裡面\n\n15:36.138 --> 15:52.027\n那我們環境部在這一部分其實是沒有足夠的監測的都沒有所以我在這裡要建議環境部要設置全國重要性的HAPS的有害空氣污染物的空氣品質監測網路包括設置國家型的有害空氣污染物的趨勢策戰\n\n15:57.910 --> 16:21.656\n包括要選定特定區域設置區域任務型的有害空氣品質測算要監測重要的HA、PS的物種那以美國聯邦這個環保署來講有害空氣污染物的監測的概念書裡面他就建議其實不是建置在污染源的旁邊而是應該要以受體\n\n16:22.756 --> 16:31.501\n他對於污染、污染源對受體的影響所以不是建置在靠近大型污染源的策點而應以社區、學校、鄰近污染源的受體就是我會呼吸到這個受體他要據你的選擇要具代表性的策點\n\n16:43.587 --> 17:06.889\n做為策戰的這個位置而且要定期監測調整監測區位確保這個民眾的健康所以我今天跟你講這兩件事情就是空瓶標準然後AQI指標再來就是因應SRF你們要讓他取代部分的燃煤那你的監測你的這個這個管制的方法其實都應該要對應出來\n\n17:09.071 --> 17:12.634\n所以我在我認為你是認真的人而且你就宣誓說你要擰毛巾所以我們希望部長給我們看到你願意擰毛巾擰出更乾淨的空氣的誠意出來\n\n17:24.462 --> 17:53.079\n好謝謝委員我不知道委員那個SRF吼我的確去看了您說的問題的確正在發生當中那我也承諾我們會有一個SRF的營運體檢的輔導團針對所有的廠從這個分裝到最後燃燒最後的大氣品質會全面的體檢大概三個月內所有的廠是什麼意思就是包含它的這個分裝還有最後燃燒不是餒我們不是講SRF這個建築廠對對對我有提這個SRF他是講使用了所有SRF的這個燃料的\n\n17:53.599 --> 17:54.020\n謝謝林淑芬委員的發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.517,"end":8.786,"text":"主席 各位大家午安 是不是請我們這個彭部長請彭部長"},{"start":12.915,"end":32.696,"text":"林委員好部長你好到目前為止我們衛網委員會三個部長看得出來你真的是相當相當的認真這一點我還是要給你肯定但是部長你在新上任的時候你召開記者會的時候宣布了四大重點政策其中一個政策是空氣品質標準的再檢討"},{"start":35.499,"end":51.4,"text":"你所使用的語言是說你會想辦法像擰毛巾一樣再擰出一點進步的可能你是這樣說的吧?是是那我今天就要跟你討論如何再更用力的擰毛巾擰出更乾淨的空氣"},{"start":52.481,"end":73.549,"text":"那我想你講這個應該上任前啦幕僚上任後啦幕僚應該已經跟你講了在你上任以前的4月29號環境部就預告修正空氣品質的標準草案其中這個PM2.5的標準年平均值要將由每立方米15微克加鹽到12微克"},{"start":76.71,"end":87.354,"text":"但是24小時的平均值仍然維持每立法米35維克但是呢我今天要跟你講就空氣品質標準他會連動到空氣品質指標的AQI"},{"start":93.513,"end":93.533,"text":"拜訪議員"},{"start":111.664,"end":129.466,"text":"那你們呢在2022年委託了民調公司調查那民眾感受到空氣品質變化的主要依據除了天空目測的能見度環境的意味還有身體到底有沒有不舒服以外其實它就是根據你們公布的空氣品質"},{"start":130.768,"end":130.968,"text":"林淑芬議員"},{"start":161.789,"end":182.421,"text":"那只有超過到橘燈才會對人體健康不好但是呢我今天跟你講是因為2018年國衛院跟你們共同發表了PM2.5氣旋伏為例特徵對民眾健康影響的研究國衛院本土研究"},{"start":183.899,"end":189.683,"text":"他透過減量成本和健康效益評估發現全台灣PM2.5的濃度減量到15維克一立方米的時候那他可以避免1843個中風可以讓166個急性心肌梗塞避免掉可以減少568個肺癌可以712位的慢性阻塞肺病的個案可以避免發生"},{"start":214.479,"end":241.24,"text":"那可以增進27210年的平均餘命可以增進30282年的健康人生而可以節省健保29億8千萬元肺癌可以避免的死亡數如果把它降到10維克每立方米的標準以下的話它避免的死亡人數是638人"},{"start":243.542,"end":262.792,"text":"然後在15維克他標準下他是可以減少死亡345人那10維克是可以少死638個15維克是只剩下345個所以要講這個是說只差5維克就可以避免死亡人數就可以少一倍這樣子"},{"start":264.468,"end":273.958,"text":"所以這個你說 空氣品質標準重不重要 很重要因為你國家的標準定在哪裡決定了國民的健康啊 那健康攸關了每一個家庭啊"},{"start":278.464,"end":303.973,"text":"那也關係到健保的支出啊所以這個國會院的報告在2018年的建議對PM2.5對健康的影響在相當低的濃度能有作用都應該要降到WHO標準年平均10維克日平均25維克這是國會院的報告他還是建議我們說我們的年平均還是應該要10維克而日平均應該是25維克"},{"start":308.394,"end":325.952,"text":"那事實上WHO的這個標準,國會院建議的這個WHO的這個標準事實上人家WHO的標準都變了WHO的標準變成說年平均是5維克但是一天24小時的平均是15維克"},{"start":328.134,"end":330.635,"text":"他們已經變了這4年過去了但是我們要追上WHO的舊標準我們的阿旺只能看著他們的車尾燈還是一樣在追車尾燈捏部長你說還看不到喔"},{"start":345.863,"end":366.161,"text":"對,第一個WHO是一個建議的標準目前還沒有一個國家真的用5維克單純是一個指標那我在講說看上一次的人家在那個10維克還有日平均25維克10維克也是我想達到的目標但是問題是說我們現在以現在我們幾個空品去來看花東"},{"start":367.802,"end":384.595,"text":"這麼乾淨的地方也只有7到8那我們西半部這麼密集那我們過去呢這個8年從20大概降到13點多大概降了7左右7維克左右其實花了蠻多錢的沒有啦20沒有降到13點多啦北部空瓶區12點2竹藐13啦中部16點5雲嘉南是8點6高屏17點5啦"},{"start":390.419,"end":391.86,"text":"但是你現在他們已經預告的這個變成"},{"start":420.793,"end":444.889,"text":"十二跟二十四小時一天平均值三十五維克你有什麼想法?你說他在用力的擰毛巾擰出好的空氣品質你有什麼想法?第一個是說我們對未來的這個排放量污染的排放量的推估以前我們是用直接展覽的方式我現在講標準你就講這個標準我現在跟你講你讓我再說一下不好意思因為你講遠我時間有限"},{"start":446.77,"end":461.037,"text":"我意思是說你把15維克降到12維克年平均量看起來好像是進步的可是呢可是呢你24小時一天的平均值仍然維持35維克這有什麼概念這個概念很簡單啊因為它是一個總量的概念你一整天你吸進去的還是35維克啊"},{"start":468.061,"end":476.265,"text":"所以根據你們上個月發布的最新的112年空氣品質監測年報顯示你們雖然全台灣平均是13.7但是扣除掉陽明站、三義站、恆春站的測值以後事實上你們的年平均濃度是14.2而且都還比111年上升"},{"start":491.391,"end":514.072,"text":"一百一十一年是十三點一結果你一百一十二年的濃度是十四點二而且當然我們講花東地區都不要講啦所以在這種狀況裡面你們只有修正這個年平均值對於一天二十四小時你沒有修正你這個是為此原狀根本沒有用力擰毛巾"},{"start":515.174,"end":521.101,"text":"這樣子不算用力擰毛巾啊看不出來有用力擰毛巾要擰出好的空氣品質的感覺那沒有進步的誠意"},{"start":524.13,"end":548.335,"text":"有啦,委員那個是4月底公佈的啦。5月我們會,6月應該會再修正啦。我們會有一些進步的空間會存在啦。好,那我再跟你講AQI好了。AQI指標它對應到PM2.5 24小時的平均值。然後將PM2.5 15微克顯示為良好。你們早已經不符合公共衛生裡面所有學界研究的科學事實了。"},{"start":548.875,"end":565.581,"text":"你們的AQI指標都不動結果你說24小時平均值只要是15維克裡面的PM2.515維克都叫做空氣品質良好事實上就不是啊人家公衛的學者說這樣子對健康影響就很大了啊"},{"start":566.221,"end":585.475,"text":"所以錯誤的良好的燈號讓我們民眾誤判也沒有因應空氣品質採取正確的應對方式造成我們民眾的健康防護上的缺漏我要舉一個美國為例美國基於人體健康這個研究證據在今年2月已經將PM2.5的年均標準值下修為9維克同時在5月開始更新他們的AQI指標"},{"start":595.302,"end":618.591,"text":"PM2.5要在9維克以下才會顯示為空氣優良的綠色那依據美國環保署的說法他說他們也是這樣做啊做健康研究預計調整以後可望在2032年前增進460億美金的近健康效益包括防止4500人過早死亡"},{"start":620.552,"end":649.295,"text":"避免29萬個工作天的損失美國的國家環保局認為對健康空氣投資每一塊錢的美元就會產出77美元的效益投入資源來改善空污是增進全民健康的關鍵尤其是跟空污相關的死亡率還有慢性病都造成我國醫療龐大的這個資源的負擔不要忘了我們的氣管支氣管和肺癌"},{"start":650.095,"end":669.993,"text":"當然是台灣癌症死亡的第一位那我們現在講確實就是預防勝於治療嘛你要在健保上支出不如把這個錢花在我們的這個空氣防治上面所以在這裡呼籲政府不要讓污染成本消耗過多的健保資源那"},{"start":670.774,"end":690.824,"text":"你們的大棄屍以前張副司長跟媒體講過根據國衛院的這個研究成果考量到防治成本和經濟效益所以你們修正了草案才會變成24小時一天還是維持35維克雖然年平均值從15變成12但我們希望"},{"start":691.164,"end":712.119,"text":"部長你考慮的不是只有產業的經濟效益而是應該再講促進國人全民健康所省下來醫療資源負擔及這個健保成本真的是隱性的成本還有社會裡面每個為這種慢性病所支付的社會成本真的很高所以部長我是希望你在這裡可以承諾我們"},{"start":713.18,"end":729.75,"text":"用擰毛巾的方式想辦法加嚴真正的去加嚴空氣品質包括過降低PM2.5的年平均值以外還要我剛剛講的24小時的平均值一天的平均值不能再繼續維持在35維克"},{"start":732.452,"end":748.171,"text":"而且他跟他聯動的AQI指標也要一併調整讓我們民眾真正可以瞭解當下的空瓶狀況而讓我們可以自己做出健康防護可以嗎委員我已經在擰了再給我一點點時間新的數據大概會出來"},{"start":749.833,"end":765.614,"text":"抱歉我再講一個議題這個也是很重要因為就是說跟空污有關就從燃煤到SRF我們要建議都應該要建制有害空氣污染物HPS的策戰因為"},{"start":766.195,"end":769.977,"text":"根據空氣品質監測站設置及監測標準我們這個空品測站的設置和站址的這個選擇要反映全國性跨縣市及空氣品質變化趨勢為目的所以考量要設置在哪裡包括這個監測站要監測什麼種類包括污染源的分布類型污染物的濃度等等所以你們是考量很多所以你們的監測有很多種監測嘛包括"},{"start":795.692,"end":802.196,"text":"您們的一般空氣品質監測工業區的空氣品質監測交通的空氣品質監測國家公園空氣品質監測還有環境背景的空氣品質監測還有其他空氣品質監測站甚至呢要了解特殊污染的建置的還有任務型的監測站然後光化測站特殊工業區監測站河川陽城監測大氣窯測等等但是呢我今天要跟你講的是根據環保署委託中研院"},{"start":825.752,"end":837.16,"text":"在2023年所做出來的一百一十二年度系選府為例PM2.5化學成分監測及分析計劃指出我現在講喔他們去監測很多煙道煙道裡面測出BEHP塑化劑"},{"start":849.761,"end":865.051,"text":"這個報告指出煙道採樣採出DEHP塑化劑他們提出一個疑問這是不是跟SRF的使用有關而且要持續去追蹤和釐清那這事情為什麼這麼嚴重你知道嗎部長"},{"start":866.358,"end":881.789,"text":"資源循環燃料它正在而且是你的重大政策即將要取代部分的燃煤現在空品的策戰都是為了燃煤的空品在做的設置和管制然後去因應"},{"start":882.89,"end":897.398,"text":"那你SRF要變成很大一部分要取代掉一大部分的那麼它你現在的策戰還有檢驗的方法等等都不足以因應支援循環燃料就SRF所造成的空氣汙染第二個"},{"start":898.939,"end":905.585,"text":"不要講這個固定污染源連移動污染源像柴油車也會排放這個有害的空氣污染物而我們國內環境大氣對於這個HAPS的監測站就是監測有害空氣污染物的這個測站的設置都是設在工業區去看到排放"},{"start":920.399,"end":935.357,"text":"但是除了我剛剛講固定污染源以外還有交通污染源還有其他小型的麵源它是溢散出來的還有多位區裡面的受體造成民眾暴露在這種有害的空氣污染物裡面"},{"start":936.138,"end":952.027,"text":"那我們環境部在這一部分其實是沒有足夠的監測的都沒有所以我在這裡要建議環境部要設置全國重要性的HAPS的有害空氣污染物的空氣品質監測網路包括設置國家型的有害空氣污染物的趨勢策戰"},{"start":957.91,"end":981.656,"text":"包括要選定特定區域設置區域任務型的有害空氣品質測算要監測重要的HA、PS的物種那以美國聯邦這個環保署來講有害空氣污染物的監測的概念書裡面他就建議其實不是建置在污染源的旁邊而是應該要以受體"},{"start":982.756,"end":991.501,"text":"他對於污染、污染源對受體的影響所以不是建置在靠近大型污染源的策點而應以社區、學校、鄰近污染源的受體就是我會呼吸到這個受體他要據你的選擇要具代表性的策點"},{"start":1003.587,"end":1026.889,"text":"做為策戰的這個位置而且要定期監測調整監測區位確保這個民眾的健康所以我今天跟你講這兩件事情就是空瓶標準然後AQI指標再來就是因應SRF你們要讓他取代部分的燃煤那你的監測你的這個這個管制的方法其實都應該要對應出來"},{"start":1029.071,"end":1032.634,"text":"所以我在我認為你是認真的人而且你就宣誓說你要擰毛巾所以我們希望部長給我們看到你願意擰毛巾擰出更乾淨的空氣的誠意出來"},{"start":1044.462,"end":1073.079,"text":"好 謝謝委員 我不知道委員那個SRF吼我的確去看了您說的問題的確正在發生當中那我也承諾我們會有一個SRF的營運體檢的輔導團針對所有的廠從這個分裝到最後燃燒最後的大氣品質會全面的體檢大概三個月內所有的廠是什麼意思就是包含它的這個分裝還有最後燃燒不是餒 我們不是講SRF這個建築廠對對對我有提這個SRF他是講使用了所有SRF的這個燃料的"},{"start":1073.599,"end":1074.02,"text":"謝謝林淑芬委員的發言"}]}}}}