{"id":153741,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153741","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0d7b1f4370c473d5692888304a241f879dbbe5275cafb4dfee56b966b91e1130016580a9b45654d35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"范雲","委員發言時間":"11:44:20 - 11:55:41","影片長度":"00:11:21","會議時間":"2024-06-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請文化部部長李遠、教育部、原住民族委員會、客家委員會列席就「自信臺灣深根文化軟實力－『國家語言發展法』推動成效總檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【6月5日及6日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-06","start_time":"2024-06-06T11:44:20+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-06T11:55:41+08:00","duration":681,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-15"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":558,"blocks":[["范委員雲：（11時44分）謝謝召委安排今天這個非常重要的主題，我要先請部長，待會兒再請署長。"],["主席：有請李部長。"],["范委員雲：部長，快要午安了，辛苦了。剛剛林宜瑾委員有問到中正紀念堂的事情，我滿贊同他的看法，所以我就想到，不知道部長有沒有看過文化部針對促轉會解散之後，去年3月曾經來我們教文委員會報告，文化部關於轉型正義的三大任務，部長有看過那個報告嗎？沒有沒關係。"],["李部長遠：我沒有看過，但是我大約知道它的方向。"],["范委員雲：那您知道這三大任務，就是促轉會解散後，各部會的就歸各部會，文化部關於轉型正義的三大任務是什麼您知不知道？"],["李部長遠：中正紀念堂的轉型好像是由我們文化部來主責，成立一個……"],["范委員雲：對，中正紀念堂轉型是三大之一，另外兩個，一個是政治檔案的研究跟人權教育，還有一個是不義遺址。"],["李部長遠：不義遺址，對。"],["范委員雲：關於中正紀念堂轉型的方向，不知道您曉不曉得？就是寫在你們自己的報告。"],["李部長遠：我假如沒有記錯的話，就是去威權跟去崇拜這兩個方向。"],["范委員雲：對，就是去威權，然後要讓它變成符合民主人權。"],["李部長遠：對。"],["范委員雲：詳細的文字我不記得，但是非常清楚就是逐步去威權，所以林宜瑾委員剛剛講的那個方向，我覺得如果國防部支持的話，真的要做啦！觀光休閒不是不重要，可是我們想想看，我記得我跟宜瑾委員去英國國會外交過，皇室才有皇家儀典，那中正紀念堂既然不是皇室的話，現在繼續有三軍儀隊，那個意義代表什麼？其實跟我們民主國家的人權價值是有矛盾的，所以我們逐步用溝通、說服的方式達成社會共識，但是不代表我們沒有價值、立場跟方向，好不好？這是第一個，我支持林宜瑾委員剛剛講到的部分，也提醒部長。","第二個，我也想問部長，因為你們今天報告寫得非常清楚，文化部放在臺灣臺語的預算是15億，請問部長，這個15億是占文化部年度預算的百分之多少？"],["李部長遠：非常少，我還要算一下，它並不多。"],["范委員雲：對，那次長知道嗎？可以幫忙一下。不知道？"],["李次長靜慧：因為我們今年的預算是298億，所以是15億除以298億。"],["范委員雲：15億除以298億是多少？誰可以幫忙算一下？"],["李次長靜慧：5%。"],["范委員雲：5%喔？如果臺灣臺語都這麼少，我想客語、原住民語應該是更少嘛！可是我看到你們的結論說語言是文化的靈魂，語言既然是文化的靈魂，我們對靈魂的投資只有5%，這是不是太低了？所以我希望部長可以協助。剛剛很高興聽到您在回應林俊憲委員的時候，有提到您過去在華視，是不是？"],["李部長遠：台視、華視都做過。"],["范委員雲：台視、華視，把8點檔改成臺語，我覺得非常好。"],["李部長遠：改成臺語，對。"],["范委員雲：因為它的確是消失中的語言，像我這個世代，我媽媽是雲林人，但是因為禁說臺語，我就因此沒有機會學到了。因為我媽媽是兩個語言都很棒，我爸爸是跟蔣介石軍隊來的，他完全不會說臺語，但是他也改了他的鄉音，學了華語，可是我在我的辦公室是臺語講得最「輪轉」的，所以你可以知道這個臺語消失的世代，剛剛林俊憲委員說最後一代臺語人，是真的危機很深，文化部只放5%在臺灣臺語，如果語言是文化的靈魂的話，是不是可以統整一下過去10年在這方面的預算，然後未來如何逐步增加，好嗎？","我們是政府部門，對於瀕臨消失的語言，因為語言有強勢跟弱勢，強勢的語言它就是商業能力強，你不用規定大家就自己學，英語就是嘛！那弱勢語言就是特別需要文化部花資源，如果文化部這邊有有趣的材料，教育部那邊的學生就會有興趣學，我想這個部分絕對要有精彩的文化作品，教育部的工作才能做好，好不好？請部長盤點一下，讓我們知道你未來4年如何逐步增加，給我一份報告好嗎？"],["李部長遠：好，包括電影、電視，其實我們一直在增加中。"],["范委員雲：有一個計畫方向，好不好？"],["李部長遠：好，沒問題。"],["范委員雲：像我看過的「魔法阿媽」就非常棒。"],["李部長遠：對。"],["范委員雲：它就是不同的語言，然後裡面的阿媽就是講臺語，非常的精彩，大家都喜歡。"],["李部長遠：「魔法阿媽」現在在做第2集。"],["范委員雲：我有聽說了，我覺得至少我看到的，這是一個非常好的本土的……"],["李部長遠：對，很好。"],["范委員雲：有把臺語融入在裡面，是很精彩的一個作品。好，謝謝部長，您請回。"],["李部長遠：謝謝。"],["范委員雲：我們請署長。"],["主席：有請署長。"],["范委員雲：署長，就教育的部分來講，我們辦公室跟你們索資，然後做了研究之後，雙語政策增加師資來源是4年30億，可是我們增加本土語言師資來源，5年總計只有十四億多，同是師資增加經費，雙語政策是國家語言的兩倍，這個署長您知道吧？"],["彭署長富源：委員，在項目的定義上容我再說明，但是我們從兩個計畫的比較來看，雙語計畫在111年到112年總共投資，不含外師是18億，那我們的本土語言是23億。"],["范委員雲：對，但是我現在講的是師資，還沒有講別的資源喔！"],["彭署長富源：本土語言是23億。"],["范委員雲：這個部分是我看到的資料，而且雙語政策我們這裡只有講師資，還有其他很多的資源，您了解嘛！"],["彭署長富源：了解。"],["范委員雲：本土語言除了師資之外，其他的預算是更少的。我想請問您，雙語政策裡面是嘉惠幾種語言？"],["彭署長富源：雙語，如果就目前看到的，可能大家會覺得是英語跟華語，但是我們今天報告中有提到沉浸式的，那裡面就有非常多，譬如說有700校在處理的，它的另外一語就是本土語言。"],["范委員雲：好，但是你這個雙語的師資沒有華語嘛！雙語裡面就是一個語言，英語嘛！"],["彭署長富源：也不見得。一個是英語，這的確是目前執行的大宗，但是現在……"],["范委員雲：對，所以主要就是英語嘛！"],["彭署長富源：對。"],["范委員雲：我們時間有限，但是本土語文的師資是幾種語言你知不知道？"],["彭署長富源：本土語言的師資，如果真的要盤點的話，可以到59個，含語系。"],["范委員雲：59個。"],["彭署長富源：含語系。"],["范委員雲：所以雙語其實就是英語，我們講雙語，可是目前其實就是英語嘛！你英語一個語文的師資來源，4年規劃了30億，本土語言你剛剛講五十幾種，我這邊辦公室寫至少二十幾種，5年只有14億喔！所以教育部在國家語言教育跟英語教育的巨大資源落差，其實我是滿憂心的，我並沒有說要刪減雙語政策的師資，那個部分我覺得教育部做了，那是一個方向，可是國家語言這個部分，有五十幾種語言分享這麼有限的師資資源，真的是目前的一個危機。","其實當時我們在通過相關的法的時候，潘部長就已經說了，師資是挑戰，這個是當時的新聞。到現在為止，你如果去問第一線的老師等等，他們也是會告訴你，師資不足是很嚴重的問題，那剛剛署長已經回應，有好多委員在關心這個問題，我就不重複了。我只是在講，如果把裡面的客語拿出來看，因為剛剛我們講了很多臺灣臺語的部分，在客語的部分，從117學年起，達門檻學校應有客語專長教師至少1人，可是你看我們最近找到的資料，第一線教師反映，學校好像不了解你們通過的辦法和這些資訊，都沒有積極開缺。","以客語來看，至少臺灣台語在111到112學年度，地方政府還開缺了39人，客語只有新竹縣在開缺耶！只有4人。請問署長，能不能夠解決這個問題？相比之下，師資的部分就是完全都不開缺，只有新竹縣需要客語老師嗎？"],["彭署長富源：應該不是，委員給我5秒鐘跟您報告一下。"],["范委員雲：好。"],["彭署長富源：關於這個師資是到117年，在客語重點發展區它有一定的規範，例如在國中14班以上的要有1個，全臺灣有12個，那我們怎麼做？兩點來做，第一點，列考核；第二點，給予獎勵來運用它。那麼因為是到117年，現在是準備進到113年，那目前我們的管制，剛剛的4人現在已經進到12人，所以在相關的方法上是有效的，但我們還是照委員的要求，持續努力。"],["范委員雲：繼續努力，至少要讓地方政府知道這都是需要的，如果連客語大縣都只有要求4人，苗栗那些都還沒有看到的話，我想這個危機一直都存在。","最後，我們針對雙語做了非常多，像是大學生偏鄉陪伴、學伴，沉浸式教學是我們雙語教育要做的，針對國家語言發展會議，這是文化部主責的，其實第八項建議就是沉浸式教學需要誘因，那教育部是不是可以比照我們的雙語政策？你雖然剛剛說有一點，但是我懷疑比重非常少，針對國家語言，特別是今天我們幾位講到的，其實就是臺灣臺語、臺灣客語跟原住民語也能夠發展出大學生偏鄉陪伴、學伴的這些機制，讓它的沉浸式教學能夠得到教育部更多資源的挹注，好不好？"],["彭署長富源：沒問題，照委員這個方向，謝謝。"],["范委員雲：好，多久之內可以把這個初步規劃給我們辦公室一份？"],["彭署長富源：3週內。"],["范委員雲：3週，好，謝謝署長，加油啊！"],["彭署長富源：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝范雲委員，署長請回。","接下來請吳春城委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":274,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-15","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","林倩綺","萬美玲","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","林俊憲","張啓楷","吳沛憶","范雲","吳春城","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張雅琳","羅廷瑋","高金素梅","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","葉元之","黃仁","陳冠廷"],"page_start":207,"meetingDate":["2024-06-06"],"gazette_id":"1135902","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135902_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請文化部部長李遠、教育部、原住民族委員會、客家委員會列席就「自信臺灣深根文化軟實力\n─ 『國家語言發展法』推動成效總檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1135902_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"153741","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153741","tool":"pyannote","id":"153741-pyannote"},"job_id":"fddbIkBPDxn93W0b","queued_at":"2024-06-06 12:17:34","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-06 12:18:20","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153741"},{"time":"2024-06-06 12:18:21","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0d7b1f4370c473d5692888304a241f879dbbe5275cafb4df8d38369fa36eb79fcb86eaca5078d11d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-06-06 12:18:41","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-06-06 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\"start\": 676.786, \"end\": 676.806, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"范\", \"start\": 676.806, \"end\": 676.886, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 676.886, \"end\": 676.906, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,651 --> 00:00:09,211\n謝謝趙委安排今天這個非常重要的主題我要先請部長然後待會再請我們署長好有請李部長\n\n2\n00:00:12,202 --> 00:00:36,714\n部長快要午安了辛苦了那剛剛因為林一金委員有問到中正紀念堂的事情那我蠻贊同他的看法所以就想到不知道部長有沒有看過那個我們文化部針對那個促轉會解散之後曾經來我們教育委員會去年3月報告的文化部關於轉型正義的三大任務部長有看過那個報告嗎\n\n3\n00:00:38,716 --> 00:00:51,212\n我沒有看過但是我大約知道他的方向您知道那個三大任務就是促轉會解散後那有各部會就歸各部會文化部關於轉型正義的三大任務是什麼您知不知道\n\n4\n00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:57,301\n中正紀念堂的轉型好像是由我們文化部來主責對,中正紀念堂轉型是三大之一另外兩個一個是政治檔案的研究跟人權教育還有一個是不義移植關於中正紀念堂轉型裡面的方向不知道您曉不曉得就是寫在你們自己的報告裡我假如沒有記錯的話就是去威權跟去崇拜這兩個方向\n\n5\n00:01:20,410 --> 00:01:22,992\n就是去威權然後要讓它變成是一個符合民主人權的那詳細的文字我不記得但是非常清楚就是逐步去威權所以林益金委員剛剛講的那個方向我覺得如果國防部支持的話\n\n6\n00:01:36,462 --> 00:01:36,602\n中文建討．\n\n7\n00:01:56,567 --> 00:01:57,068\n我想這是一個支持林議員剛剛講到的部分也提醒部長\n\n8\n00:02:18,669 --> 00:02:20,170\n市長知道嗎?可以幫忙一下。不知道齁?\n\n9\n00:02:43,289 --> 00:02:43,809\n15億除以298是多少?誰可以幫算一下?\n\n10\n00:02:54,892 --> 00:03:23,755\n五百分之五五百分之五喔那我想如果台灣台語都這麼少客語原住民語應該是更少嘛可是我看到你們的結論說語言是文化的靈魂語言既然是文化的靈魂我們對靈魂的投資只有百分之五這是不是太低了所以我覺得也希望那個部長可以協助剛剛很高興聽到您在回應林俊憲委員的時候有提到您過去當那個是華氏是不是\n\n11\n00:03:24,275 --> 00:03:25,216\n但是我在我辦公室是台語講得最令動的\n\n12\n00:03:54,133 --> 00:04:12,519\n所以你可以知道這個臺語消失的世代剛剛林俊憲委員說最後一代臺語人是真的危機很深危機很深文化部只放5%在語言式文化的靈魂的話是不是可以統整一下就是過去10年\n\n13\n00:04:31,152 --> 00:04:55,677\n那弱勢語言就是特別需要文化部花資源而且讓文化部這邊有有趣的材料教育部的那邊的學生就會有興趣學我想這個部分絕對要有精彩的文化作品教育部的工作才能做好好不好那請那個部長可以盤點一下讓我們知道你未來4年的如何逐步增加的報告可以給我們給我一份好嗎\n\n14\n00:04:56,657 --> 00:05:15,114\n包括電影、電視其實我們一直在增加中那有個計畫方向像那個我看過的那個魔法阿嬤就非常棒他就是不同的語言然後裡面阿嬤就是講台語然後非常的精彩那大家都喜歡魔法阿嬤現在在作惡\n\n15\n00:05:15,994 --> 00:05:17,375\n謝謝部長,您請回。好,謝謝。那我們請那個署長。好,有請署長。\n\n16\n00:05:35,540 --> 00:06:00,061\n委員長,我其實想就教育的來講我們辦公室跟你們所知做了研究之後雙語政策我們師資來源是4年30億可是我們增加本土語言師資來源5年總計只有14億多同時師資增加經費雙語政策是國家語言的兩倍這個署長您知道吧\n\n17\n00:06:02,502 --> 00:06:06,727\n有些在項目的定義上容我在說明但是我們從兩個計畫的比較來看兩個計畫雙語計畫在111年到112年總共投資不含外資是18億本土元是23億\n\n18\n00:06:23,143 --> 00:06:23,403\n雙語政策是嘉惠幾種語言?\n\n19\n00:06:45,336 --> 00:07:00,889\n雙語,如果就目前看到的可能大家會覺得是英語跟華語但是我們今天報告中有提到陳進士的那裡面就有非常多比如說有700校在處理的他的那個另外語就是本土語言但是你這個雙語的這個師資沒有華語嗎?雙語裡面就是一個語言英語嗎?\n\n20\n00:07:05,333 --> 00:07:06,935\n但是本土語文這個師資是集中語言你知不知道?\n\n21\n00:07:20,199 --> 00:07:20,459\n范雲主席\n\n22\n00:07:39,230 --> 00:07:39,390\n委員會委員會委員會委員會\n\n23\n00:08:06,269 --> 00:08:12,191\n就是說有50幾種語言分享這麼有限的師資的資源真的是目前的一個危機那其實潘部長當時我們在通過相關的法的時候他就已經說了師資是挑戰這是當時的那個新聞那到現在為止你如果去問第一線的老師等等他們也是會告訴你師資不足是很嚴重的問題\n\n24\n00:08:32,116 --> 00:08:52,791\n主席,您已經回應了許多委員關心這個問題了,我就不重複了。我只是在講,如果把裡面的課語拿出來看,因為剛剛我們講了很多台灣台語的課語的部分,從17學年起達門檻學校應有課語專長教師至少一人或什麼,可是你看到我們\n\n25\n00:08:53,672 --> 00:09:01,977\n最近我們找到的資料第一線教師反映學校好像不了解你們通過的辦法這些資訊都沒有積極開缺\n\n26\n00:09:03,991 --> 00:09:30,687\n以客語來看至少這個臺灣台語還各縣市開缺11到12學年度地方政府開缺了39人客語只有新竹縣在開缺只有4人所以請問署長能不能夠解決這個問題相比之下就是就師資的部分就是完全都不開缺只有新竹縣需要客語老師嗎\n\n27\n00:09:32,068 --> 00:09:35,269\n這個實資的說明他是到117年在課語重點發展區他有一定的規範例如在國中14班以上的要有一個全台灣有12個\n\n28\n00:09:48,515 --> 00:10:07,038\n我們怎麼做?兩點來做第一點列考核第二點給予獎勵來運用它那麼因為是到117年現在是準備進到113年那目前我們的管制剛剛的4人現在已經進到12人所以在相關的方法上是有效的但我們還是照委員的要求繼續努力\n\n29\n00:10:07,939 --> 00:10:28,275\n繼續努力至少要讓地方政府知道這都需要的如果連客語大限都只有要求四人那苗栗那些還都沒有看到的話我想這個危機一直都存在那最後呢我想我們針對雙語做了非常多大學生偏鄉陪伴學伴\n\n30\n00:10:29,636 --> 00:10:55,274\n陳靜氏教學是我們雙語教育要做的那我們針對國家語言發展會議這是文化部主責的其實第8項建議就是陳靜氏教學需要誘因那教育部是不是可以比照我們的雙語政策你雖然剛剛說有一點但是我懷疑比重非常少那針對我們國家語言特別是今天我們幾位講到的其實就是台灣台語、台灣客語跟原住民語言\n\n31\n00:10:57,816 --> 00:11:16,906\n能夠也發展出大學生偏鄉陪伴學辦的這些機制讓他的沉浸式教學能夠得到教育部更多資源的一個益助好不好?沒問題,稍微那個方向,謝謝那多久之內可以把這個初步規劃給我們辦公室一份呢?三週內三週喔,好,那謝謝署長,那加油喔謝謝委員好,謝謝范委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n651\t9211\t謝謝趙委安排今天這個非常重要的主題我要先請部長然後待會再請我們署長好 有請李部長\n12202\t36714\t部長快要午安了辛苦了那剛剛因為林一金委員有問到中正紀念堂的事情那我蠻贊同他的看法所以就想到不知道部長有沒有看過那個我們文化部針對那個促轉會解散之後曾經來我們教育委員會去年3月報告的文化部關於轉型正義的三大任務部長有看過那個報告嗎\n38716\t51212\t我沒有看過但是我大約知道他的方向您知道那個三大任務就是促轉會解散後那有各部會就歸各部會文化部關於轉型正義的三大任務是什麼您知不知道\n53159\t57301\t中正紀念堂的轉型好像是由我們文化部來主責對,中正紀念堂轉型是三大之一另外兩個一個是政治檔案的研究跟人權教育還有一個是不義移植關於中正紀念堂轉型裡面的方向不知道您曉不曉得就是寫在你們自己的報告裡我假如沒有記錯的話就是去威權跟去崇拜這兩個方向\n80410\t82992\t就是去威權然後要讓它變成是一個符合民主人權的那詳細的文字我不記得但是非常清楚就是逐步去威權所以林益金委員剛剛講的那個方向我覺得如果國防部支持的話\n96462\t96602\t中文建討．\n116567\t117068\t我想這是一個支持林議員剛剛講到的部分也提醒部長\n138669\t140170\t市長知道嗎?可以幫忙一下。不知道齁?\n163289\t163809\t15億除以298是多少?誰可以幫算一下?\n174892\t203755\t五百分之五五百分之五喔那我想如果台灣台語都這麼少客語原住民語應該是更少嘛可是我看到你們的結論說語言是文化的靈魂語言既然是文化的靈魂我們對靈魂的投資只有百分之五這是不是太低了所以我覺得也希望那個部長可以協助剛剛很高興聽到您在回應林俊憲委員的時候有提到您過去當那個是華氏是不是\n204275\t205216\t但是我在我辦公室是台語講得最令動的\n234133\t252519\t所以你可以知道這個臺語消失的世代剛剛林俊憲委員說最後一代臺語人是真的危機很深危機很深文化部只放5%在語言式文化的靈魂的話是不是可以統整一下就是過去10年\n253899\t271032\t﹏﹏\n271152\t295677\t那弱勢語言就是特別需要文化部花資源而且讓文化部這邊有有趣的材料教育部的那邊的學生就會有興趣學我想這個部分絕對要有精彩的文化作品教育部的工作才能做好好不好那請那個部長可以盤點一下讓我們知道你未來4年的如何逐步增加的報告可以給我們給我一份好嗎\n296657\t315114\t包括電影、電視其實我們一直在增加中那有個計畫方向像那個我看過的那個魔法阿嬤就非常棒他就是不同的語言然後裡面阿嬤就是講台語然後非常的精彩那大家都喜歡魔法阿嬤現在在作惡\n315994\t317375\t謝謝部長,您請回。好,謝謝。那我們請那個署長。好,有請署長。\n335540\t360061\t委員長,我其實想就教育的來講我們辦公室跟你們所知做了研究之後雙語政策我們師資來源是4年30億可是我們增加本土語言師資來源5年總計只有14億多同時師資增加經費雙語政策是國家語言的兩倍這個署長您知道吧\n362502\t366727\t有些在項目的定義上容我在說明但是我們從兩個計畫的比較來看兩個計畫雙語計畫在111年到112年總共投資不含外資是18億本土元是23億\n383143\t383403\t雙語政策是嘉惠幾種語言?\n405336\t420889\t雙語,如果就目前看到的可能大家會覺得是英語跟華語但是我們今天報告中有提到陳進士的那裡面就有非常多比如說有700校在處理的他的那個另外語就是本土語言但是你這個雙語的這個師資沒有華語嗎?雙語裡面就是一個語言英語嗎?\n425333\t426935\t但是本土語文這個師資是集中語言你知不知道?\n440199\t440459\t范雲主席\n459230\t459390\t委員會委員會委員會委員會\n486269\t492191\t就是說有50幾種語言分享這麼有限的師資的資源真的是目前的一個危機那其實潘部長當時我們在通過相關的法的時候他就已經說了師資是挑戰這是當時的那個新聞那到現在為止你如果去問第一線的老師等等他們也是會告訴你師資不足是很嚴重的問題\n512116\t532791\t主席,您已經回應了許多委員關心這個問題了,我就不重複了。我只是在講,如果把裡面的課語拿出來看,因為剛剛我們講了很多台灣台語的課語的部分,從17學年起達門檻學校應有課語專長教師至少一人或什麼,可是你看到我們\n533672\t541977\t最近我們找到的資料第一線教師反映學校好像不了解你們通過的辦法這些資訊都沒有積極開缺\n543991\t570687\t以客語來看至少這個臺灣台語還各縣市開缺11到12學年度地方政府開缺了39人客語只有新竹縣在開缺只有4人所以請問署長能不能夠解決這個問題相比之下就是就師資的部分就是完全都不開缺只有新竹縣需要客語老師嗎\n572068\t575269\t這個實資的說明他是到117年在課語重點發展區他有一定的規範例如在國中14班以上的要有一個全台灣有12個\n588515\t607038\t我們怎麼做?兩點來做第一點列考核第二點給予獎勵來運用它那麼因為是到117年現在是準備進到113年那目前我們的管制剛剛的4人現在已經進到12人所以在相關的方法上是有效的但我們還是照委員的要求繼續努力\n607939\t628275\t繼續努力至少要讓地方政府知道這都需要的如果連客語大限都只有要求四人那苗栗那些還都沒有看到的話我想這個危機一直都存在那最後呢我想我們針對雙語做了非常多大學生偏鄉陪伴學伴\n629636\t655274\t陳靜氏教學是我們雙語教育要做的那我們針對國家語言發展會議這是文化部主責的其實第8項建議就是陳靜氏教學需要誘因那教育部是不是可以比照我們的雙語政策你雖然剛剛說有一點但是我懷疑比重非常少那針對我們國家語言特別是今天我們幾位講到的其實就是台灣台語、台灣客語跟原住民語言\n657816\t676906\t能夠也發展出大學生偏鄉陪伴學辦的這些機制讓他的沉浸式教學能夠得到教育部更多資源的一個益助好不好?沒問題,稍微那個方向,謝謝那多久之內可以把這個初步規劃給我們辦公室一份呢?三週內三週喔,好,那謝謝署長,那加油喔謝謝委員好,謝謝范委員\n","txt":"謝謝趙委安排今天這個非常重要的主題我要先請部長然後待會再請我們署長好 有請李部長\n部長快要午安了辛苦了那剛剛因為林一金委員有問到中正紀念堂的事情那我蠻贊同他的看法所以就想到不知道部長有沒有看過那個我們文化部針對那個促轉會解散之後曾經來我們教育委員會去年3月報告的文化部關於轉型正義的三大任務部長有看過那個報告嗎\n我沒有看過但是我大約知道他的方向您知道那個三大任務就是促轉會解散後那有各部會就歸各部會文化部關於轉型正義的三大任務是什麼您知不知道\n中正紀念堂的轉型好像是由我們文化部來主責對,中正紀念堂轉型是三大之一另外兩個一個是政治檔案的研究跟人權教育還有一個是不義移植關於中正紀念堂轉型裡面的方向不知道您曉不曉得就是寫在你們自己的報告裡我假如沒有記錯的話就是去威權跟去崇拜這兩個方向\n就是去威權然後要讓它變成是一個符合民主人權的那詳細的文字我不記得但是非常清楚就是逐步去威權所以林益金委員剛剛講的那個方向我覺得如果國防部支持的話\n中文建討．\n我想這是一個支持林議員剛剛講到的部分也提醒部長\n市長知道嗎?可以幫忙一下。不知道齁?\n15億除以298是多少?誰可以幫算一下?\n五百分之五五百分之五喔那我想如果台灣台語都這麼少客語原住民語應該是更少嘛可是我看到你們的結論說語言是文化的靈魂語言既然是文化的靈魂我們對靈魂的投資只有百分之五這是不是太低了所以我覺得也希望那個部長可以協助剛剛很高興聽到您在回應林俊憲委員的時候有提到您過去當那個是華氏是不是\n但是我在我辦公室是台語講得最令動的\n所以你可以知道這個臺語消失的世代剛剛林俊憲委員說最後一代臺語人是真的危機很深危機很深文化部只放5%在語言式文化的靈魂的話是不是可以統整一下就是過去10年\n﹏﹏\n那弱勢語言就是特別需要文化部花資源而且讓文化部這邊有有趣的材料教育部的那邊的學生就會有興趣學我想這個部分絕對要有精彩的文化作品教育部的工作才能做好好不好那請那個部長可以盤點一下讓我們知道你未來4年的如何逐步增加的報告可以給我們給我一份好嗎\n包括電影、電視其實我們一直在增加中那有個計畫方向像那個我看過的那個魔法阿嬤就非常棒他就是不同的語言然後裡面阿嬤就是講台語然後非常的精彩那大家都喜歡魔法阿嬤現在在作惡\n謝謝部長,您請回。好,謝謝。那我們請那個署長。好,有請署長。\n委員長,我其實想就教育的來講我們辦公室跟你們所知做了研究之後雙語政策我們師資來源是4年30億可是我們增加本土語言師資來源5年總計只有14億多同時師資增加經費雙語政策是國家語言的兩倍這個署長您知道吧\n有些在項目的定義上容我在說明但是我們從兩個計畫的比較來看兩個計畫雙語計畫在111年到112年總共投資不含外資是18億本土元是23億\n雙語政策是嘉惠幾種語言?\n雙語,如果就目前看到的可能大家會覺得是英語跟華語但是我們今天報告中有提到陳進士的那裡面就有非常多比如說有700校在處理的他的那個另外語就是本土語言但是你這個雙語的這個師資沒有華語嗎?雙語裡面就是一個語言英語嗎?\n但是本土語文這個師資是集中語言你知不知道?\n范雲主席\n委員會委員會委員會委員會\n就是說有50幾種語言分享這麼有限的師資的資源真的是目前的一個危機那其實潘部長當時我們在通過相關的法的時候他就已經說了師資是挑戰這是當時的那個新聞那到現在為止你如果去問第一線的老師等等他們也是會告訴你師資不足是很嚴重的問題\n主席,您已經回應了許多委員關心這個問題了,我就不重複了。我只是在講,如果把裡面的課語拿出來看,因為剛剛我們講了很多台灣台語的課語的部分,從17學年起達門檻學校應有課語專長教師至少一人或什麼,可是你看到我們\n最近我們找到的資料第一線教師反映學校好像不了解你們通過的辦法這些資訊都沒有積極開缺\n以客語來看至少這個臺灣台語還各縣市開缺11到12學年度地方政府開缺了39人客語只有新竹縣在開缺只有4人所以請問署長能不能夠解決這個問題相比之下就是就師資的部分就是完全都不開缺只有新竹縣需要客語老師嗎\n這個實資的說明他是到117年在課語重點發展區他有一定的規範例如在國中14班以上的要有一個全台灣有12個\n我們怎麼做?兩點來做第一點列考核第二點給予獎勵來運用它那麼因為是到117年現在是準備進到113年那目前我們的管制剛剛的4人現在已經進到12人所以在相關的方法上是有效的但我們還是照委員的要求繼續努力\n繼續努力至少要讓地方政府知道這都需要的如果連客語大限都只有要求四人那苗栗那些還都沒有看到的話我想這個危機一直都存在那最後呢我想我們針對雙語做了非常多大學生偏鄉陪伴學伴\n陳靜氏教學是我們雙語教育要做的那我們針對國家語言發展會議這是文化部主責的其實第8項建議就是陳靜氏教學需要誘因那教育部是不是可以比照我們的雙語政策你雖然剛剛說有一點但是我懷疑比重非常少那針對我們國家語言特別是今天我們幾位講到的其實就是台灣台語、台灣客語跟原住民語言\n能夠也發展出大學生偏鄉陪伴學辦的這些機制讓他的沉浸式教學能夠得到教育部更多資源的一個益助好不好?沒問題,稍微那個方向,謝謝那多久之內可以把這個初步規劃給我們辦公室一份呢?三週內三週喔,好,那謝謝署長,那加油喔謝謝委員好,謝謝范委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.651 --> 00:09.211\n謝謝趙委安排今天這個非常重要的主題我要先請部長然後待會再請我們署長好有請李部長\n\n00:12.202 --> 00:36.714\n部長快要午安了辛苦了那剛剛因為林一金委員有問到中正紀念堂的事情那我蠻贊同他的看法所以就想到不知道部長有沒有看過那個我們文化部針對那個促轉會解散之後曾經來我們教育委員會去年3月報告的文化部關於轉型正義的三大任務部長有看過那個報告嗎\n\n00:38.716 --> 00:51.212\n我沒有看過但是我大約知道他的方向您知道那個三大任務就是促轉會解散後那有各部會就歸各部會文化部關於轉型正義的三大任務是什麼您知不知道\n\n00:53.159 --> 00:57.301\n中正紀念堂的轉型好像是由我們文化部來主責對,中正紀念堂轉型是三大之一另外兩個一個是政治檔案的研究跟人權教育還有一個是不義移植關於中正紀念堂轉型裡面的方向不知道您曉不曉得就是寫在你們自己的報告裡我假如沒有記錯的話就是去威權跟去崇拜這兩個方向\n\n01:20.410 --> 01:22.992\n就是去威權然後要讓它變成是一個符合民主人權的那詳細的文字我不記得但是非常清楚就是逐步去威權所以林益金委員剛剛講的那個方向我覺得如果國防部支持的話\n\n01:36.462 --> 01:36.602\n中文建討．\n\n01:56.567 --> 01:57.068\n我想這是一個支持林議員剛剛講到的部分也提醒部長\n\n02:18.669 --> 02:20.170\n市長知道嗎?可以幫忙一下。不知道齁?\n\n02:43.289 --> 02:43.809\n15億除以298是多少?誰可以幫算一下?\n\n02:54.892 --> 03:23.755\n五百分之五五百分之五喔那我想如果台灣台語都這麼少客語原住民語應該是更少嘛可是我看到你們的結論說語言是文化的靈魂語言既然是文化的靈魂我們對靈魂的投資只有百分之五這是不是太低了所以我覺得也希望那個部長可以協助剛剛很高興聽到您在回應林俊憲委員的時候有提到您過去當那個是華氏是不是\n\n03:24.275 --> 03:25.216\n但是我在我辦公室是台語講得最令動的\n\n03:54.133 --> 04:12.519\n所以你可以知道這個臺語消失的世代剛剛林俊憲委員說最後一代臺語人是真的危機很深危機很深文化部只放5%在語言式文化的靈魂的話是不是可以統整一下就是過去10年\n\n04:31.152 --> 04:55.677\n那弱勢語言就是特別需要文化部花資源而且讓文化部這邊有有趣的材料教育部的那邊的學生就會有興趣學我想這個部分絕對要有精彩的文化作品教育部的工作才能做好好不好那請那個部長可以盤點一下讓我們知道你未來4年的如何逐步增加的報告可以給我們給我一份好嗎\n\n04:56.657 --> 05:15.114\n包括電影、電視其實我們一直在增加中那有個計畫方向像那個我看過的那個魔法阿嬤就非常棒他就是不同的語言然後裡面阿嬤就是講台語然後非常的精彩那大家都喜歡魔法阿嬤現在在作惡\n\n05:15.994 --> 05:17.375\n謝謝部長,您請回。好,謝謝。那我們請那個署長。好,有請署長。\n\n05:35.540 --> 06:00.061\n委員長,我其實想就教育的來講我們辦公室跟你們所知做了研究之後雙語政策我們師資來源是4年30億可是我們增加本土語言師資來源5年總計只有14億多同時師資增加經費雙語政策是國家語言的兩倍這個署長您知道吧\n\n06:02.502 --> 06:06.727\n有些在項目的定義上容我在說明但是我們從兩個計畫的比較來看兩個計畫雙語計畫在111年到112年總共投資不含外資是18億本土元是23億\n\n06:23.143 --> 06:23.403\n雙語政策是嘉惠幾種語言?\n\n06:45.336 --> 07:00.889\n雙語,如果就目前看到的可能大家會覺得是英語跟華語但是我們今天報告中有提到陳進士的那裡面就有非常多比如說有700校在處理的他的那個另外語就是本土語言但是你這個雙語的這個師資沒有華語嗎?雙語裡面就是一個語言英語嗎?\n\n07:05.333 --> 07:06.935\n但是本土語文這個師資是集中語言你知不知道?\n\n07:20.199 --> 07:20.459\n范雲主席\n\n07:39.230 --> 07:39.390\n委員會委員會委員會委員會\n\n08:06.269 --> 08:12.191\n就是說有50幾種語言分享這麼有限的師資的資源真的是目前的一個危機那其實潘部長當時我們在通過相關的法的時候他就已經說了師資是挑戰這是當時的那個新聞那到現在為止你如果去問第一線的老師等等他們也是會告訴你師資不足是很嚴重的問題\n\n08:32.116 --> 08:52.791\n主席,您已經回應了許多委員關心這個問題了,我就不重複了。我只是在講,如果把裡面的課語拿出來看,因為剛剛我們講了很多台灣台語的課語的部分,從17學年起達門檻學校應有課語專長教師至少一人或什麼,可是你看到我們\n\n08:53.672 --> 09:01.977\n最近我們找到的資料第一線教師反映學校好像不了解你們通過的辦法這些資訊都沒有積極開缺\n\n09:03.991 --> 09:30.687\n以客語來看至少這個臺灣台語還各縣市開缺11到12學年度地方政府開缺了39人客語只有新竹縣在開缺只有4人所以請問署長能不能夠解決這個問題相比之下就是就師資的部分就是完全都不開缺只有新竹縣需要客語老師嗎\n\n09:32.068 --> 09:35.269\n這個實資的說明他是到117年在課語重點發展區他有一定的規範例如在國中14班以上的要有一個全台灣有12個\n\n09:48.515 --> 10:07.038\n我們怎麼做?兩點來做第一點列考核第二點給予獎勵來運用它那麼因為是到117年現在是準備進到113年那目前我們的管制剛剛的4人現在已經進到12人所以在相關的方法上是有效的但我們還是照委員的要求繼續努力\n\n10:07.939 --> 10:28.275\n繼續努力至少要讓地方政府知道這都需要的如果連客語大限都只有要求四人那苗栗那些還都沒有看到的話我想這個危機一直都存在那最後呢我想我們針對雙語做了非常多大學生偏鄉陪伴學伴\n\n10:29.636 --> 10:55.274\n陳靜氏教學是我們雙語教育要做的那我們針對國家語言發展會議這是文化部主責的其實第8項建議就是陳靜氏教學需要誘因那教育部是不是可以比照我們的雙語政策你雖然剛剛說有一點但是我懷疑比重非常少那針對我們國家語言特別是今天我們幾位講到的其實就是台灣台語、台灣客語跟原住民語言\n\n10:57.816 --> 11:16.906\n能夠也發展出大學生偏鄉陪伴學辦的這些機制讓他的沉浸式教學能夠得到教育部更多資源的一個益助好不好?沒問題,稍微那個方向,謝謝那多久之內可以把這個初步規劃給我們辦公室一份呢?三週內三週喔,好,那謝謝署長,那加油喔謝謝委員好,謝謝范委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.651,"end":9.211,"text":"謝謝趙委安排今天這個非常重要的主題我要先請部長然後待會再請我們署長好 有請李部長"},{"start":12.202,"end":36.714,"text":"部長快要午安了辛苦了那剛剛因為林一金委員有問到中正紀念堂的事情那我蠻贊同他的看法所以就想到不知道部長有沒有看過那個我們文化部針對那個促轉會解散之後曾經來我們教育委員會去年3月報告的文化部關於轉型正義的三大任務部長有看過那個報告嗎"},{"start":38.716,"end":51.212,"text":"我沒有看過但是我大約知道他的方向您知道那個三大任務就是促轉會解散後那有各部會就歸各部會文化部關於轉型正義的三大任務是什麼您知不知道"},{"start":53.159,"end":57.301,"text":"中正紀念堂的轉型好像是由我們文化部來主責對,中正紀念堂轉型是三大之一另外兩個一個是政治檔案的研究跟人權教育還有一個是不義移植關於中正紀念堂轉型裡面的方向不知道您曉不曉得就是寫在你們自己的報告裡我假如沒有記錯的話就是去威權跟去崇拜這兩個方向"},{"start":80.41,"end":82.992,"text":"就是去威權然後要讓它變成是一個符合民主人權的那詳細的文字我不記得但是非常清楚就是逐步去威權所以林益金委員剛剛講的那個方向我覺得如果國防部支持的話"},{"start":96.462,"end":96.602,"text":"中文建討．"},{"start":116.567,"end":117.068,"text":"我想這是一個支持林議員剛剛講到的部分也提醒部長"},{"start":138.669,"end":140.17,"text":"市長知道嗎?可以幫忙一下。不知道齁?"},{"start":163.289,"end":163.809,"text":"15億除以298是多少?誰可以幫算一下?"},{"start":174.892,"end":203.755,"text":"五百分之五五百分之五喔那我想如果台灣台語都這麼少客語原住民語應該是更少嘛可是我看到你們的結論說語言是文化的靈魂語言既然是文化的靈魂我們對靈魂的投資只有百分之五這是不是太低了所以我覺得也希望那個部長可以協助剛剛很高興聽到您在回應林俊憲委員的時候有提到您過去當那個是華氏是不是"},{"start":204.275,"end":205.216,"text":"但是我在我辦公室是台語講得最令動的"},{"start":234.133,"end":252.519,"text":"所以你可以知道這個臺語消失的世代剛剛林俊憲委員說最後一代臺語人是真的危機很深危機很深文化部只放5%在語言式文化的靈魂的話是不是可以統整一下就是過去10年"},{"start":253.899,"end":271.032,"text":" ﹏﹏"},{"start":271.152,"end":295.677,"text":"那弱勢語言就是特別需要文化部花資源而且讓文化部這邊有有趣的材料教育部的那邊的學生就會有興趣學我想這個部分絕對要有精彩的文化作品教育部的工作才能做好好不好那請那個部長可以盤點一下讓我們知道你未來4年的如何逐步增加的報告可以給我們給我一份好嗎"},{"start":296.657,"end":315.114,"text":"包括電影、電視其實我們一直在增加中那有個計畫方向像那個我看過的那個魔法阿嬤就非常棒他就是不同的語言然後裡面阿嬤就是講台語然後非常的精彩那大家都喜歡魔法阿嬤現在在作惡"},{"start":315.994,"end":317.375,"text":"謝謝部長,您請回。好,謝謝。那我們請那個署長。好,有請署長。"},{"start":335.54,"end":360.061,"text":"委員長,我其實想就教育的來講我們辦公室跟你們所知做了研究之後雙語政策我們師資來源是4年30億可是我們增加本土語言師資來源5年總計只有14億多同時師資增加經費雙語政策是國家語言的兩倍這個署長您知道吧"},{"start":362.502,"end":366.727,"text":"有些在項目的定義上容我在說明但是我們從兩個計畫的比較來看兩個計畫雙語計畫在111年到112年總共投資不含外資是18億本土元是23億"},{"start":383.143,"end":383.403,"text":"雙語政策是嘉惠幾種語言?"},{"start":405.336,"end":420.889,"text":"雙語,如果就目前看到的可能大家會覺得是英語跟華語但是我們今天報告中有提到陳進士的那裡面就有非常多比如說有700校在處理的他的那個另外語就是本土語言但是你這個雙語的這個師資沒有華語嗎?雙語裡面就是一個語言英語嗎?"},{"start":425.333,"end":426.935,"text":"但是本土語文這個師資是集中語言你知不知道?"},{"start":440.199,"end":440.459,"text":"范雲主席"},{"start":459.23,"end":459.39,"text":"委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":486.269,"end":492.191,"text":"就是說有50幾種語言分享這麼有限的師資的資源真的是目前的一個危機那其實潘部長當時我們在通過相關的法的時候他就已經說了師資是挑戰這是當時的那個新聞那到現在為止你如果去問第一線的老師等等他們也是會告訴你師資不足是很嚴重的問題"},{"start":512.116,"end":532.791,"text":"主席,您已經回應了許多委員關心這個問題了,我就不重複了。我只是在講,如果把裡面的課語拿出來看,因為剛剛我們講了很多台灣台語的課語的部分,從17學年起達門檻學校應有課語專長教師至少一人或什麼,可是你看到我們"},{"start":533.672,"end":541.977,"text":"最近我們找到的資料第一線教師反映學校好像不了解你們通過的辦法這些資訊都沒有積極開缺"},{"start":543.991,"end":570.687,"text":"以客語來看至少這個臺灣台語還各縣市開缺11到12學年度地方政府開缺了39人客語只有新竹縣在開缺只有4人所以請問署長能不能夠解決這個問題相比之下就是就師資的部分就是完全都不開缺只有新竹縣需要客語老師嗎"},{"start":572.068,"end":575.269,"text":"這個實資的說明他是到117年在課語重點發展區他有一定的規範例如在國中14班以上的要有一個全台灣有12個"},{"start":588.515,"end":607.038,"text":"我們怎麼做?兩點來做第一點列考核第二點給予獎勵來運用它那麼因為是到117年現在是準備進到113年那目前我們的管制剛剛的4人現在已經進到12人所以在相關的方法上是有效的但我們還是照委員的要求繼續努力"},{"start":607.939,"end":628.275,"text":"繼續努力至少要讓地方政府知道這都需要的如果連客語大限都只有要求四人那苗栗那些還都沒有看到的話我想這個危機一直都存在那最後呢我想我們針對雙語做了非常多大學生偏鄉陪伴學伴"},{"start":629.636,"end":655.274,"text":"陳靜氏教學是我們雙語教育要做的那我們針對國家語言發展會議這是文化部主責的其實第8項建議就是陳靜氏教學需要誘因那教育部是不是可以比照我們的雙語政策你雖然剛剛說有一點但是我懷疑比重非常少那針對我們國家語言特別是今天我們幾位講到的其實就是台灣台語、台灣客語跟原住民語言"},{"start":657.816,"end":676.906,"text":"能夠也發展出大學生偏鄉陪伴學辦的這些機制讓他的沉浸式教學能夠得到教育部更多資源的一個益助好不好?沒問題,稍微那個方向,謝謝那多久之內可以把這個初步規劃給我們辦公室一份呢?三週內三週喔,好,那謝謝署長,那加油喔謝謝委員好,謝謝范委員"}]}}}}