{"id":153743,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153743","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0d7b1f4370c473d5e843320b319e120479f99d17e212a4188d38369fa36eb79fd5025eb6a0fa74945ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"劉建國","委員發言時間":"11:46:54 - 12:00:50","影片長度":"00:13:56","會議時間":"2024-06-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長就「廢棄物暫存量逐年攀升，廢棄物處理政策短中長程規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【6月5日及6日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-06","start_time":"2024-06-06T11:46:54+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-06T12:00:50+08:00","duration":836,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-20"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":714,"blocks":[["劉委員建國：（11時47分）有請部長。"],["主席：請彭部長。"],["彭部長啓明：委員好。"],["劉委員建國：部長，你看，我沒有來，就這麼少人在問你，這樣你就要擔心了。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝。"],["劉委員建國：好，謝謝召委今天排這一個專案報告，大家來討論，最主要就是廢棄物的暫存量逐年攀升，為什麼會逐年攀升？然後說到廢棄物處理政策的短中長程的規劃，我想新部長要有新氣象，但是這個老問題也需要新部長用新的思維來面對。我先請部長看這個照片，這個叫白費心力，環保局坦承資源回收結果都是進焚化爐，網友嘆被糟蹋，最主要是民眾辛苦地在家分類，結果到頭來是做白工，回收的東西還是進到焚化爐。另外，2023年彰化縣的溪洲焚化場做落地檢查，若發現有一包垃圾含資源回收物達15件以上，或廚餘50%以上，立即全車退回，重新分類，並記點要求清潔隊至焚化場接受教育訓練，公所的清潔隊不得不落實垃圾破袋檢查，也因此去年的垃圾量減少到五千公噸以上，那就相當於一千台以上垃圾車的量。我想，從2018年一直到2023年，臺灣整個回收的制度還是充滿著問題，那麼這個問題我們就要面對。","部長再看這個表格，這是近六年臺灣一般家戶的垃圾量，平均還在四百多萬公噸左右，我們看這個表格中紅色的數字，基本上110年降到三百八十九萬多，其他平均都在四百多萬，甚至於到112年已經來到四百八十幾萬，然後你再看近六年資源垃圾的成長，從107年的四百八十幾萬，一直到現在，已經來到了六百二十幾萬，節節高升。臺灣人民很努力地在配合政策，然後大家也都有資源回收和垃圾分類的概念和經驗，大家都在落實，但是資收物為什麼會節節上升？然後一般垃圾的處理量也卻沒有降下來。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，有幾個因素。其實資源回收的增加，最主要就是網購盛行之後有很多大型的箱子等等進入到資源回收，真的成長非常非常多。另外一個就是我們剛剛有提到的算法，例如說我們現在把很多非例行性排出的垃圾也算進去，所以有幾年的確是在升高當中，我舉例來說，像燒金紙，燒金紙在這裡面有四點多%，我們以前都不會算在這裡面，現在算進去，因為我們推行集中燒金紙的政策來降低空污。甚至還有大型活動的垃圾也會進來，所以也讓整個垃圾量突然逐漸增高。當然目前最主要還是因為疫情造成國人生活型態改變，外食比例也變多。"],["劉委員建國：OK。外食比例偏多造成垃圾量增加，這個理由我可以接受，但是你講說燒金紙這四%算進去這裡面……"],["彭部長啓明：現在的算法，就是112年之後垃圾量跳高的原因，就是說，包含燒金紙、大型活動、工程美化、災害等等，全部都要算，我們算得也比以前精準。"],["劉委員建國：是112年才算進去？"],["彭部長啓明：112年算，之前的107年是把一般公司的員工產生的廢棄物也算進來，以前是沒有算得那麼好，我們現在是一個一個都當成是一般廢棄物，所以這個數據就會往上走。"],["劉委員建國：部長，你的意思是說，112年把燒金紙的四%算進去。"],["彭部長啓明：還有其他，最多的還是大型活動的廢棄物。以前大型活動的廢棄物就當成是事業廢棄物在處理，現在歸類於一般廢棄物。"],["劉委員建國：但如果這樣，對照前一年來講，也只不過增加多少？827扣掉799，差不多……"],["彭部長啓明：對，33萬噸左右。"],["劉委員建國：我覺得應該不是這樣的比例吧？"],["彭部長啓明：111年開始放進去，我剛剛說錯了，是111年。"],["劉委員建國：那這樣我就要看你們的細項，你這樣講，我會覺得有點奇怪，我覺得這樣子的統計數據，它的來源好像不是很精準，那這個源頭的處理情況就這麼不精準，難怪相關的數量會節節攀升，而且會居高不下。"],["彭部長啓明：就是以前的算法的確很籠統就是從源頭分類，現在是項目都有了。"],["劉委員建國：那我就麻煩新部長到任後把你們的計算公式重新定義清楚，讓我們作參考嘛。好不好？"],["彭部長啓明：好，沒有問題。"],["劉委員建國：那我們到時候就可以來做相關比較。"],["彭部長啓明：好。"],["劉委員建國：但是另外有一點就是地方環保局會不會只挑高價資收物再利用處理，其他低價資收物，也因為處理麻煩，且沒有任何的價值，像餐盒之類的，即便民眾有分類，最後還是進到焚化爐一途，會不會這樣？"],["賴署長瑩瑩：餐具類的我們是有補貼，我們還是會去督導，有些地方清潔隊，因為有時候標售是高價的標，然後低價的就用不一樣的方式去標，結果造成低價的就沒有人標，我們是鼓勵他們在標售時要一起來標售，這樣比較不會有問題。"],["劉委員建國：所以現在你回答我說低價的沒有人標，最後還是誠如我所講的，還是到焚化爐去了嘛。"],["彭部長啓明：對，對。有些是這樣。"],["賴署長瑩瑩：有些可能是這樣子。好，那我們這邊會來輔導。"],["劉委員建國：你們怎麼好意思回答我說有些就是這樣？那這樣你叫百姓配合你們做資源回收，到底是什麼？最終還是送到焚化爐去啊。"],["賴署長瑩瑩：的確是少數啦。那我們有瞭解……"],["劉委員建國：你的少數是幾%？署長講清楚，你的少數是幾%？你的少數是幾%？講清楚。我相信你們有相關的統計數據嘛。你讓我們知道啊。如果資源回收是這樣在做處理，那你這個政策和執行力，確實是有很大的問題存在。"],["賴署長瑩瑩：因為有些地方的清潔隊，有時候我們還是需要去輔導它，然後他們才能夠完全按照我們的方式來做，所以我們會就問題來輔導。"],["劉委員建國：臺灣的資源回收已經做幾年了，我們到現在還用「輔導」這兩個字，這不對吧？今天焚化爐針對要進場的這些垃圾破袋檢查，如果查到資收物已經高過多少的比例，全部退回，然後還要記點，還要去教育訓練，你只要強硬起來，馬上一年可以減少到5,000噸，相當於1,000台垃圾車的運量，我剛剛開場白就講這些話了啊。但如果你現在視而不見，還要用輔導的方式去做處理，這麼軟性的手段在做處理，量當然會高居不下，當然降不下來，這也是原因之一。絕對不是如部長你現在接收到的訊息這樣而已嘛，我覺得這個大大有問題。我們臺灣跟人家講說我們的資源回收做得多進步，怎麼會在人民百姓配合的情況之下，因為這些東西低價而沒辦法處理？所以你現在用輔導的方式，這個沒有道理，這個說不通吧？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，這個數據上，我會再跟我們同仁一起一個一個算清楚，好不好？"],["劉委員建國：好，請部長慎重面對這個事情，看怎麼樣來處理。","另外，部長有講過環境部要來做數位轉型，這個我絕對百分之百支持，像這種資收物被丟進焚化爐的老問題，有沒有辦法透過AI的科技來做怎麼樣的處理？我為什麼會這麼講？新北最厲害，現在已經有第一台AI的機械手臂，可以快速分類回收物，它會精確識別紙類、紙容器、塑膠、鐵鋁罐等17類的資收物，省去人工分選的人力，而且快速地把資收物挑選出來，那為什麼只有他們有？"],["顏署長旭明：報告委員，這一個部分，其實現在宜蘭、新北跟嘉義我們都在試辦，也就是說，剛才委員特別提到進焚化場的資收物達15件以上就全車退回的這個制度，現在全國其實都有，為了更瞭解熱值跟辨別資收物，有這一個試辦計畫正在進行，現在的辨識力大概80%左右，大概還要為期兩年的訓練，如果成功的話，我們會推廣到所有焚化場。"],["劉委員建國：為什麼先選擇這三個縣市？是新北、嘉義和宜蘭嘛，對不對？"],["顏署長旭明：是的。"],["劉委員建國：這三個縣市的資收物，就是像我講的，就是非常不落實，都丟進焚化爐，所以優先選擇他們？"],["顏署長旭明：不是，因為……"],["劉委員建國：做錯事反而先有AI的東西可以使用。"],["顏署長旭明：沒有，沒有。他們的分類非常好，而且很積極，然後也願意跟我們來合作，畢竟這是一個新的技術，以往……"],["劉委員建國：所以這三個縣市就是因為分類特別好，很積極，沒有誠如剛才署長所講的這個狀況持續發生，所以我們有新的AI機械手臂，就讓他們可以先行試用試辦，以資獎勵，應該是這麼講嘛，對不對？二十二個縣市扣掉這三個縣市，其他的十八個縣市一次都做得非常離譜，非常兩光，就像剛剛講的，經常有含資收物10%、20%以上的垃圾全部都進到焚化爐，資源回收都白做了就對了，所以這些人我們就不獎勵了。"],["顏署長旭明：報告委員，這個制度，其實以往是用目視的檢查，以前叫做抽查，那我們現在希望能夠普查，如果有AI技術，就可以普查，是這個意思。"],["劉委員建國：你沒有回答我的問題嘛。這三個縣市就是做得不錯，所以在試辦時就優先讓他們有AI的機械手臂來做篩選嘛，對不對？我們應該就是用這樣的鼓勵，我覺得不為過啦，我覺得不為過喔，因為在試辦的過程裡面，不可能全國二十二個縣市一次都來做這個事情嘛，所以你當然會選擇能夠將政策落實去執行的、跟中央比較配合、做得比較淋漓盡致的縣市，有這樣先進的AI篩選手臂，當然優先讓這些縣市試辦，OK啊，減少你們的人力嘛。但是我要表達的就是，相對地，其他十八個縣市到底是出了什麼狀況？"],["顏署長旭明：十八個縣市在廢棄物的進場上面也沒有出特別的狀況，其實剛才委員第一句話就已經講了，尤其是彰化那一個案例，那一個案例其實是全國都有訂定進場的允收標準，所以很多人在講，關於資收物進到焚化場這件事情，實際上焚化場如果發現有資收物進入，就有那一套機制在做，所以我們覺得這個部分可能還要再釐清。焚化場這套制度我們覺得做得還不錯，而且我們有垃圾的檢查。"],["劉委員建國：要怎麼去釐清，問署長就清楚了嘛。因為署長剛才就已經答復我他有掌握了嘛，確實有這個狀況發生嘛，只不過是有沒有很精細地去掌握狀況到底是怎麼樣嘛，所以署長剛剛要問的問題，要提出來的問題，署長剛剛已經答復你了，所以現在我要具體要求，請部長帶回研究，好不好？一個月內提出相關報告，第一個就是針對全國各縣市的垃圾分類、資源回收是否有落實執行，進行一個大盤點，到底有多少資收物被送進焚化爐，我覺得我們有責任要去掌握，這個報告是不是可以一個月內給委員會委員來做參考？"],["彭部長啓明：可以。"],["劉委員建國：這是第一個。","第二個就是說，針對這個輔助的回收和分選的AI智能相關技術，進行相關預算的評估，就像你們現在已經做這樣的一個處理，那是不是可以普及？但是我知道它還是要test一段時間，差不多多久？你的預算規模要到多少？如果大家面對這個事情都覺得是認可的，我相信委員會也會支持你們，但是是不是要讓我們知道你們的評估方式和你們評估的預算的規模達到什麼樣的程度？還有精準度，剛才署長是說到80%，是不是可以有效再提升？這些情況的相關報告，可不可以給委員會來做參考，可以嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：可以，可以。好，謝謝委員。"],["劉委員建國：好，謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：好，謝謝劉建國委員的發言。","接下來請鄭天財委員、鄭天財委員、鄭天財委員不在。","接下來請陳冠廷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":218,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-20","speakers":["黃秀芳","盧縣一","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","王正旭","賴惠員","牛煦庭","林淑芬","廖偉翔","洪申翰","劉建國","陳冠廷","林俊憲","陳瑩","葉元之","楊曜","王育敏","鍾佳濱","涂權吉"],"page_start":131,"meetingDate":["2024-06-06"],"gazette_id":"1136001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136001_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長就「廢棄物暫存量逐年攀升，廢棄物處理政策短中長程規劃」進行專題報告，並\n備質詢","agenda_id":"1136001_00003"}},"transcript":{"id":"153743","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153743","tool":"pyannote","id":"153743-pyannote"},"job_id":"xlH4KNTJGcdOkQZU","queued_at":"2024-06-06 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\"我們看這個表格是紅色的數字這個基本上除了110年降到389萬多那其他平均都在400多甚至到112年已經來到480幾萬然後你再看這6年的資源垃圾的成長從107年480幾一直到現在已經來到了620幾萬\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 125.202, \"end\": 125.382, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 125.382, \"end\": 125.742, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 125.742, \"end\": 125.862, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"格\", \"start\": 125.862, \"end\": 126.763, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 126.763, \"end\": 127.223, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"紅\"}, {\"word\": \"色\", \"start\": 127.223, \"end\": 127.423, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 127.423, \"end\": 128.944, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 128.944, \"end\": 131.486, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 131.486, \"end\": 131.586, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 131.586, \"end\": 131.726, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 131.726, \"end\": 132.266, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"除\", \"start\": 132.266, \"end\": 132.366, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 132.366, \"end\": 132.846, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 132.846, \"end\": 133.207, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"降\", \"start\": 133.207, \"end\": 133.407, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 133.407, \"end\": 134.808, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 134.808, \"end\": 135.448, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 135.448, \"end\": 135.608, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 135.608, \"end\": 135.748, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 135.748, \"end\": 136.008, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 136.008, \"end\": 136.228, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"均\", \"start\": 136.228, \"end\": 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\"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 138.33, \"end\": 138.35, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 138.35, \"end\": 138.43, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 138.43, \"end\": 138.53, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 138.53, \"end\": 138.63, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 138.63, \"end\": 138.75, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 138.75, \"end\": 138.77, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"源\", \"start\": 138.77, \"end\": 138.79, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"垃\", \"start\": 138.79, \"end\": 138.81, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"圾\", \"start\": 138.81, \"end\": 138.83, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 138.83, \"end\": 138.85, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 138.85, \"end\": 138.87, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 138.87, \"end\": 138.99, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 138.99, \"end\": 139.05, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 139.05, \"end\": 139.13, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 139.13, \"end\": 139.15, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 139.15, \"end\": 139.25, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 139.25, \"end\": 139.27, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 139.27, \"end\": 139.37, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 139.37, \"end\": 139.39, \"score\": 0.004}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}]}, {\"start\": 156.38, \"end\": 175.049, \"text\": \"結結高升我不曉得台灣人民很努力的在配合政策然後大家也都有資源回收分類的這樣的一個概念或經驗大家都在落實但是這個支出為什麼會結結上升然後一般垃圾的處理量也卻沒有降下來\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 156.38, 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\"報告委這個有幾個因素啦齁其實這個資源回收的增加最主要就是說我們的網購盛行之後有很多的這個大型的這個這個箱子等等這個進入到這個回收這個是真的成長的非常非常的多那另外一個呢就是我們剛有提到的就是算法例如說我們現在把很多的這個例行性的非例行性排除的垃圾把它算進去所以有幾年的確是在升高當中啦\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 176.871, \"end\": 176.991, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 176.991, \"end\": 177.672, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 177.672, \"end\": 178.372, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 178.372, \"end\": 178.633, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"素\", \"start\": 178.633, \"end\": 178.813, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 178.813, \"end\": 179.233, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"齁\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 179.233, \"end\": 179.913, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"源\", \"start\": 179.913, \"end\": 180.053, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 180.053, \"end\": 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277.654, \"score\": 0.788}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 277.654, \"end\": 277.814, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"型\", \"start\": 277.814, \"end\": 277.974, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"活\", \"start\": 277.974, \"end\": 278.275, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 278.275, \"end\": 278.576, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 278.576, \"end\": 278.696, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 278.696, \"end\": 278.856, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 278.856, \"end\": 279.377, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"廢\"}, {\"word\": \"棄\"}, {\"word\": \"物\", \"start\": 279.377, \"end\": 279.477, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 279.477, \"end\": 279.838, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 279.838, \"end\": 280.138, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 280.138, \"end\": 280.259, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 280.259, \"end\": 280.359, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 280.359, \"end\": 280.539, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"歸\"}, {\"word\": \"類\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 280.539, \"end\": 281.02, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 281.02, \"end\": 281.18, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"般\", \"start\": 281.18, \"end\": 281.281, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"廢\"}, {\"word\": \"棄\"}, {\"word\": \"物\", \"start\": 281.281, \"end\": 281.301, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 283.732, \"end\": 297.696, \"text\": \"但如果這樣對照前一年來講也也也只不過增加多少827扣掉799對所有多少33萬噸33萬噸對啊對對我覺得應該不是這樣比例吧就是111年開始是有把那個開始放進去啦114我說錯了111年\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 283.732, \"end\": 283.872, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 283.872, \"end\": 283.972, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 283.972, \"end\": 284.532, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 284.532, \"end\": 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\"那這樣我就要看你們的細項了你這樣講我覺得有點奇怪我覺得這樣這個統計數據它的來源好像不是不是很精準那這樣這個源頭的一個處理的情況就這麼不精準難怪你這個相關的數量會節節的攀升啊而且會居高不下\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 305.956, \"end\": 306.316, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 306.316, \"end\": 306.476, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 306.476, \"end\": 306.576, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 306.576, \"end\": 306.656, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 306.656, \"end\": 306.756, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 306.756, \"end\": 306.876, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 306.876, \"end\": 306.997, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"細\"}, {\"word\": \"項\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 306.997, \"end\": 307.557, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 307.557, \"end\": 308.017, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 308.017, \"end\": 308.277, 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\"但是相對的我要表達就是相對的其他的18個縣市到底是出了什麼狀況18個縣市在廢棄物的進場上面也沒有出特別的狀況其實剛才委員第一句話就已經講了尤其是彰化那個案例那個案例其實是全國都有訂定進場的飲食標準所以很多人在講就是說垃圾\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 693.897, \"end\": 694.037, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 694.037, \"end\": 694.237, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 694.237, \"end\": 694.477, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 694.477, \"end\": 694.797, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 694.797, \"end\": 694.897, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 694.897, \"end\": 695.017, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 695.017, \"end\": 695.318, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"達\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 695.318, \"end\": 695.418, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 695.418, \"end\": 695.478, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 695.478, \"end\": 695.818, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 695.818, \"end\": 696.218, 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{\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 716.023, \"end\": 716.203, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"垃\", \"start\": 716.203, \"end\": 716.583, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"圾\", \"start\": 716.583, \"end\": 716.603, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 717.143, \"end\": 718.665, \"text\": \"〔廢棄物暫存量逐年攀升〕\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"〔\"}, {\"word\": \"廢\"}, {\"word\": \"棄\"}, {\"word\": \"物\", \"start\": 717.143, \"end\": 717.424, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"暫\"}, {\"word\": \"存\", \"start\": 717.424, \"end\": 717.624, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 717.624, \"end\": 717.824, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"逐\", \"start\": 717.824, \"end\": 718.305, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 718.305, \"end\": 718.525, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"攀\", \"start\": 718.525, \"end\": 718.645, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"升\", \"start\": 718.645, \"end\": 718.665, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"〕\"}]}, {\"start\": 738.287, \"end\": 753.452, \"text\": 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\"end\": 748.75, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 748.75, \"end\": 749.25, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 749.25, \"end\": 749.431, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 749.431, \"end\": 749.911, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 749.911, \"end\": 750.391, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 750.391, \"end\": 750.511, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 750.511, \"end\": 751.011, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 751.011, \"end\": 751.271, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"精\", \"start\": 751.271, \"end\": 751.471, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"細\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 751.471, \"end\": 751.651, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 751.651, \"end\": 751.831, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"掌\", \"start\": 751.831, \"end\": 752.031, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"握\", \"start\": 752.031, \"end\": 752.471, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 752.471, \"end\": 752.592, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 752.592, \"end\": 753.012, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"狀\"}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 753.012, \"end\": 753.112, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 753.112, \"end\": 753.152, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 753.152, \"end\": 753.312, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 753.312, \"end\": 753.432, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 753.432, \"end\": 753.452, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}]}, {\"start\": 755.477, \"end\": 776.265, \"text\": \"所以 署長剛剛你要問的問題你要提出來的問題署長剛剛已經答覆你的所以我現在我要具體這樣要求了請部長待會研究好不好一個月來提出這相關報告第一個就針對全國各縣市的垃圾分類試驗回收是否有落實執行進行一個大盤點那到底有多少製作物被送進葫蘆爐\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 755.477, \"end\": 755.597, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 755.597, \"end\": 756.237, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 756.237, \"end\": 756.718, \"score\": 0.836}, 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00:01:01,970\n這個叫白匯新粒環保局坦承只有回收進焚化爐網友探被糟蹋然後就主要是民眾在辛苦在家分裂結果到頭還是做白工他還是進到這個焚化爐另外還有2023市彰化縣的這個西州焚化爐\n\n4\n00:01:07,956 --> 00:01:25,208\n福道廠在做落地檢查﹖那就發現有一包是含有這個滋收物﹖滋有回收物﹖達15件以上﹖或除以50%以上﹖他立即來將這個全車退回﹖重新分類﹖並記點要求清潔隊至同化廠接受教育訓練﹖\n\n5\n00:01:26,929 --> 00:01:54,109\n公所清潔隊不得不落實垃圾破帶檢查也因此這個去年的垃圾量減少到5000公噸以上那就相當於1000台以上的垃圾車的這個量那我是想說從2018一直到2023臺灣的這個整個回收的制度還是充滿著問題那這個問題我們就要面對不然再看一個這個表格這是近6年\n\n6\n00:01:55,051 --> 00:02:00,981\n近6年的臺灣整個生產的一般加護的垃圾量平均還在400多萬公噸左右\n\n7\n00:02:05,202 --> 00:02:19,390\n我們看這個表格是紅色的數字這個基本上除了110年降到389萬多那其他平均都在400多甚至到112年已經來到480幾萬然後你再看這6年的資源垃圾的成長從107年480幾一直到現在已經來到了620幾萬\n\n8\n00:02:36,380 --> 00:02:55,049\n結結高升我不曉得台灣人民很努力的在配合政策然後大家也都有資源回收分類的這樣的一個概念或經驗大家都在落實但是這個支出為什麼會結結上升然後一般垃圾的處理量也卻沒有降下來\n\n9\n00:02:56,871 --> 00:03:22,448\n報告委這個有幾個因素啦齁其實這個資源回收的增加最主要就是說我們的網購盛行之後有很多的這個大型的這個這個箱子等等這個進入到這個回收這個是真的成長的非常非常的多那另外一個呢就是我們剛有提到的就是算法例如說我們現在把很多的這個例行性的非例行性排除的垃圾把它算進去所以有幾年的確是在升高當中啦\n\n10\n00:03:22,848 --> 00:03:48,740\n所以這個其實是例如說我舉例像這個燒金紙燒金紙在我們的這個裡面有4點多趴我們以前都不會算在這裡面現在算進去因為集中燒金紙我們推行這個偵測降低空污那甚至還有一個大型活動的這個垃圾也會進來所以也讓整個垃圾量突然逐漸的一個增高當然目前最主要還是國內因為疫情國內人這個國人生活型態的改變外食比例也變多\n\n11\n00:03:49,673 --> 00:04:09,264\nOK外資比例偏多去增加這個量我可以我倒可以接受但是你想說燒金紙這4%算進去這裡面對對現在的算法就是112年之後這個跳高的原因就是說包含燒金紙或是大型活動或是工程美化災害等等全部都要我們算法我們算的也比以前精準了啦\n\n12\n00:04:10,004 --> 00:04:27,784\n是112年才算進去?112年算但之前107年的話是又把這個所謂的員工一般的公司的員工攀升的廢棄物也算進來所以這個以前是沒有算得那麼好啦我們現在全部一個一個都當成是一般廢棄物所以這個數據就會往上走但是\n\n13\n00:04:29,298 --> 00:04:41,301\n部長你的意思是說113年把這個燒淨的4%順進去還有其他最多的還是大型活動以前大型活動就當成是事業廢棄物在處理現在把它歸類於一般廢棄物\n\n14\n00:04:43,732 --> 00:04:57,696\n但如果這樣對照前一年來講也也也只不過增加多少827扣掉799對所有多少33萬噸33萬噸對啊對對我覺得應該不是這樣比例吧就是111年開始是有把那個開始放進去啦114我說錯了111年\n\n15\n00:05:05,956 --> 00:05:23,465\n那這樣我就要看你們的細項了你這樣講我覺得有點奇怪我覺得這樣這個統計數據它的來源好像不是不是很精準那這樣這個源頭的一個處理的情況就這麼不精準難怪你這個相關的數量會節節的攀升啊而且會居高不下\n\n16\n00:05:24,065 --> 00:05:49,301\n以前的算法的確是籠統就是從源頭這樣分類多少現在是項目項目都有了那我就麻煩新部長道論是不是把你們的什麼計算方式重新定義清楚換個定義清楚然後讓我們做參考嘛好不好我們到時候就可以做這個相關比較嘛但是另外有一點就是地方的環保局會不會只挑這個高價的吃蔬物再利用處理嘛那其他的低價的吃蔬物也因為處理麻煩\n\n17\n00:05:51,603 --> 00:06:07,630\n並沒有任何價值,像餐盒之類的,還是即便民眾分裂之後,最後還是盡到文化的意圖,會不會這樣?餐具類的我們是有補貼,我們還是會去督導說有些地方青年隊,因為他有時候飆售他就\n\n18\n00:06:08,370 --> 00:06:08,490\n有些是這樣子\n\n19\n00:06:27,113 --> 00:06:45,785\n好那我們這邊會來這個來這個輔導你們怎麼好意思回答我說有些就是這樣那這樣你叫你叫百姓去陪你們做資源回收到底是什麼你最終還是到婚禮去啊的確是少數啊那我們沒有你的少數是幾趴沒有沒有沒有書長講清楚你的少數是幾趴你的少數是幾趴講清楚是是是\n\n20\n00:06:48,238 --> 00:07:13,432\n我相信你們相關有統計的數據嘛你讓我們知道啊如果資源回收是這樣再做處理那你這個政策顯然還有執行力確實是很大的問題存在的因為有些地方的青年隊他有時候我們還是需要去輔導他然後才能夠完全按照我們的方式來做啦台灣的資源回收已經做幾年了我們到現在還用輔導這兩個字\n\n21\n00:07:16,131 --> 00:07:32,700\n這不對吧?你今天不落入針對整個你要進場的這些垃圾破帶檢查如果查到說你的失蹤物已經高過多少或怎麼樣全部就是退回然後還要祭典然後還到那個地方去做教育訓練\n\n22\n00:07:34,178 --> 00:07:50,332\n你只要你只要強硬起來的情況之下他可以馬上一年的幾乎可以減少減少到5000噸然後相當於1000台我剛剛開場白就講這些話了但如果你現在把他視而不見他用輔導的方式去做處理這麼軟性的的手段在做處理\n\n23\n00:07:51,033 --> 00:08:15,790\n那你當然會高居不下啊你當然站不下來啊這個也是原因之一啊絕對不是成為部長你現在接受到的訊息這樣而已嘛我覺得這大大有問題勒我們台灣跟人家講說我們的自由回收做了多進步啊怎麼會人民百姓配合的情況之下你把這些東西因為它低價所以你沒辦法處理所以你現在用輔導的方式欸這沒道理勒你講這個不通吧\n\n24\n00:08:18,380 --> 00:08:31,879\n報告委員這個數據上我會在來跟我們同仁一起來把它一個一個把它算清楚好不好請部長不斷慎重面對這個事情看怎樣處理另外就是說部長也有講過環境部要來做數位轉型這個我絕對700%支持\n\n25\n00:08:34,142 --> 00:08:34,382\n為什麼只有他們有?\n\n26\n00:09:02,985 --> 00:09:03,187\n提供了\n\n27\n00:09:05,322 --> 00:09:33,380\n報告委員,委員所指導的這一個部分其實在宜蘭、新北跟現在嘉義我們都在試辦就是說剛才委員特別提到就是說近文化場其實那些支收物15件以上等等這個制度現在全國其實都有這個制度那為了更瞭解它的熱值跟辨別支收所以有這一個試辦計畫正在進行那如果它現在辨識率大概80%左右\n\n28\n00:09:34,961 --> 00:09:51,898\n那大概還要兩年的一個訓練如果成功的話我們會推廣到所有文化場以上為什麼先選擇這三個縣市新北、嘉義還有宜蘭嘛對不對是的是他們這三個縣市的整個製作物就是像我講的就是非常不落實通常就有文化爐所以優先他們選擇\n\n29\n00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:57,302\n所以這三個縣市就是因為分類特別好很積極沒有成如剛才署長所講的這個狀況持續發生所以我們有AI新的這樣的一個技術所必就讓他們可以來先行試用試辦以之獎勵嘛應該是這麼講嘛對不對\n\n30\n00:10:20,059 --> 00:10:21,200\n這一個制度其實以往是用牧師的檢查\n\n31\n00:10:46,098 --> 00:11:04,040\n那我們是希望他以前叫做抽查嘛現在希望能夠普查如果有AI技術他就可以普查是這個意思你沒有回答我問題嘛這三個縣市是就是做得不錯所以我們在事辦就優先讓他們有這個AI的機械手臂來做篩選嘛對不對\n\n32\n00:11:05,241 --> 00:11:32,657\n應該我們就是用這樣鼓勵我覺得我覺得不為過啦我覺得不為過喔因為你不可能因為在事辦的過程裡面你不可能一次全國全國22個縣市都來做這個事情嘛所以你當然會選擇就是說你跟跟我們這個政策比較落實去執行的跟中央比較配合的然後也做比較淋漓盡致的我當然有這樣的先進的這個AI的這個篩選的手臂來讓你優先事辦OK啊減少你們的人力嘛\n\n33\n00:11:33,897 --> 00:11:56,603\n但是相對的我要表達就是相對的其他的18個縣市到底是出了什麼狀況18個縣市在廢棄物的進場上面也沒有出特別的狀況其實剛才委員第一句話就已經講了尤其是彰化那個案例那個案例其實是全國都有訂定進場的飲食標準所以很多人在講就是說垃圾\n\n34\n00:11:57,143 --> 00:11:58,665\n〔廢棄物暫存量逐年攀升〕\n\n35\n00:12:18,287 --> 00:12:33,452\n我覺得是這樣,要怎麼去釐清,問署長就清楚了嘛,因為署長剛才就已經打呼我,他有掌握嘛,確實很多有這個狀況發生嘛,只不過是不是有沒有很精細的去掌握他的狀況到底是什麼樣嘛。\n\n36\n00:12:35,477 --> 00:12:56,265\n所以署長剛剛你要問的問題你要提出來的問題署長剛剛已經答覆你的所以我現在我要具體這樣要求了請部長待會研究好不好一個月來提出這相關報告第一個就針對全國各縣市的垃圾分類試驗回收是否有落實執行進行一個大盤點那到底有多少製作物被送進葫蘆爐\n\n37\n00:12:57,225 --> 00:13:26,080\n我覺得我們有責任要去做掌握這個報告是不是可以一個月給委員會來做參考這第一個第二個就是說針對這個輔助的回收還有這個分選等AI的智能相關技術進行相關預算的評估就像你們現在已經做這樣的一個處理那是不是可以普及但是我知道他還是要test一段時間差不多多久你的預算規模要到多少\n\n38\n00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:27,781\n謝謝劉建國委員的發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3046\t3547\t請劉建國委員發言\n17679\t45054\t好謝謝召我今天排這個專欄來報告來做討論那最主要就是廢棄物的暫存量逐年攀升嘛為什麼會逐年去攀升然後廢棄物的處理的這個政策短中長程的規劃我想新部長要有新氣象但是這個老問題也需要新部長用新的思維來做面對嘛我這邊先請部長看這個照片\n46716\t61970\t這個叫白匯新粒環保局坦承只有回收進焚化爐網友探被糟蹋然後就主要是民眾在辛苦在家分裂結果到頭還是做白工他還是進到這個焚化爐另外還有2023市彰化縣的這個西州焚化爐\n67956\t85208\t福道廠在做落地檢查﹖那就發現有一包是含有這個滋收物﹖滋有回收物﹖達15件以上﹖或除以50%以上﹖他立即來將這個全車退回﹖重新分類﹖並記點要求清潔隊至同化廠接受教育訓練﹖\n86929\t114109\t公所清潔隊不得不落實垃圾破帶檢查也因此這個去年的垃圾量減少到5000公噸以上那就相當於1000台以上的垃圾車的這個量那我是想說從2018一直到2023臺灣的這個整個回收的制度還是充滿著問題那這個問題我們就要面對不然再看一個這個表格這是近6年\n115051\t120981\t近6年的臺灣整個生產的一般加護的垃圾量平均還在400多萬公噸左右\n125202\t139390\t我們看這個表格是紅色的數字這個基本上除了110年降到389萬多那其他平均都在400多甚至到112年已經來到480幾萬然後你再看這6年的資源垃圾的成長從107年480幾一直到現在已經來到了620幾萬\n156380\t175049\t結結高升我不曉得台灣人民很努力的在配合政策然後大家也都有資源回收分類的這樣的一個概念或經驗大家都在落實但是這個支出為什麼會結結上升然後一般垃圾的處理量也卻沒有降下來\n176871\t202448\t報告委這個有幾個因素啦齁其實這個資源回收的增加最主要就是說我們的網購盛行之後有很多的這個大型的這個這個箱子等等這個進入到這個回收這個是真的成長的非常非常的多那另外一個呢就是我們剛有提到的就是算法例如說我們現在把很多的這個例行性的非例行性排除的垃圾把它算進去所以有幾年的確是在升高當中啦\n202848\t228740\t所以這個其實是例如說我舉例像這個燒金紙燒金紙在我們的這個裡面有4點多趴我們以前都不會算在這裡面現在算進去因為集中燒金紙我們推行這個偵測降低空污那甚至還有一個大型活動的這個垃圾也會進來所以也讓整個垃圾量突然逐漸的一個增高當然目前最主要還是國內因為疫情國內人這個國人生活型態的改變外食比例也變多\n229673\t249264\tOK外資比例偏多去增加這個量我可以我倒可以接受但是你想說燒金紙這4%算進去這裡面對對現在的算法就是112年之後這個跳高的原因就是說包含燒金紙或是大型活動或是工程美化災害等等全部都要我們算法我們算的也比以前精準了啦\n250004\t267784\t是112年才算進去?112年算但之前107年的話是又把這個所謂的員工一般的公司的員工攀升的廢棄物也算進來所以這個以前是沒有算得那麼好啦我們現在全部一個一個都當成是一般廢棄物所以這個數據就會往上走但是\n269298\t281301\t部長你的意思是說113年把這個燒淨的4%順進去還有其他最多的還是大型活動以前大型活動就當成是事業廢棄物在處理現在把它歸類於一般廢棄物\n283732\t297696\t但如果這樣對照前一年來講也也也只不過增加多少827扣掉799對所有多少33萬噸33萬噸對啊對對我覺得應該不是這樣比例吧就是111年開始是有把那個開始放進去啦114我說錯了111年\n305956\t323465\t那這樣我就要看你們的細項了你這樣講我覺得有點奇怪我覺得這樣這個統計數據它的來源好像不是不是很精準那這樣這個源頭的一個處理的情況就這麼不精準難怪你這個相關的數量會節節的攀升啊而且會居高不下\n324065\t349301\t以前的算法的確是籠統就是從源頭這樣分類多少現在是項目項目都有了那我就麻煩新部長道論是不是把你們的什麼計算方式重新定義清楚換個定義清楚然後讓我們做參考嘛好不好我們到時候就可以做這個相關比較嘛但是另外有一點就是地方的環保局會不會只挑這個高價的吃蔬物再利用處理嘛那其他的低價的吃蔬物也因為處理麻煩\n351603\t367630\t並沒有任何價值,像餐盒之類的,還是即便民眾分裂之後,最後還是盡到文化的意圖,會不會這樣?餐具類的我們是有補貼,我們還是會去督導說有些地方青年隊,因為他有時候飆售他就\n368370\t368490\t有些是這樣子\n387113\t405785\t好 那我們這邊會來這個來這個輔導你們怎麼好意思回答我說有些就是這樣那這樣你叫你叫百姓去陪你們做資源回收到底是什麼你最終還是到婚禮去啊的確是少數啊那我們沒有你的少數是幾趴沒有沒有沒有 書長講清楚你的少數是幾趴你的少數是幾趴講清楚是是是\n408238\t433432\t我相信你們相關有統計的數據嘛你讓我們知道啊如果資源回收是這樣再做處理那你這個政策顯然還有執行力確實是很大的問題存在的因為有些地方的青年隊他有時候我們還是需要去輔導他然後才能夠完全按照我們的方式來做啦台灣的資源回收已經做幾年了我們到現在還用輔導這兩個字\n436131\t452700\t這不對吧?你今天不落入針對整個你要進場的這些垃圾破帶檢查如果查到說你的失蹤物已經高過多少或怎麼樣全部就是退回然後還要祭典然後還到那個地方去做教育訓練\n454178\t470332\t你只要你只要強硬起來的情況之下他可以馬上一年的幾乎可以減少減少到5000噸然後相當於1000台我剛剛開場白就講這些話了但如果你現在把他視而不見他用輔導的方式去做處理這麼軟性的的手段在做處理\n471033\t495790\t那你當然會高居不下啊你當然站不下來啊這個也是原因之一啊絕對不是成為部長你現在接受到的訊息這樣而已嘛我覺得這大大有問題勒我們台灣跟人家講說我們的自由回收做了多進步啊怎麼會人民百姓配合的情況之下你把這些東西因為它低價所以你沒辦法處理所以你現在用輔導的方式欸這沒道理勒你講這個不通吧\n498380\t511879\t報告委員這個數據上我會在來跟我們同仁一起來把它一個一個把它算清楚好不好請部長不斷慎重面對這個事情看怎樣處理另外就是說部長也有講過環境部要來做數位轉型這個我絕對700%支持\n514142\t514382\t為什麼只有他們有?\n542985\t543187\t提供了\n545322\t573380\t報告委員,委員所指導的這一個部分其實在宜蘭、新北跟現在嘉義我們都在試辦就是說剛才委員特別提到就是說近文化場其實那些支收物15件以上等等這個制度現在全國其實都有這個制度那為了更瞭解它的熱值跟辨別支收所以有這一個試辦計畫正在進行那如果它現在辨識率大概80%左右\n574961\t591898\t那大概還要兩年的一個訓練如果成功的話我們會推廣到所有文化場以上為什麼先選擇這三個縣市新北、嘉義還有宜蘭嘛對不對是的是他們這三個縣市的整個製作物就是像我講的就是非常不落實通常就有文化爐所以優先他們選擇\n592679\t597302\t所以這三個縣市就是因為分類特別好很積極沒有成如剛才署長所講的這個狀況持續發生所以我們有AI新的這樣的一個技術所必就讓他們可以來先行試用試辦以之獎勵嘛應該是這麼講嘛對不對\n620059\t621200\t這一個制度其實以往是用牧師的檢查\n646098\t664040\t那我們是希望他以前叫做抽查嘛現在希望能夠普查如果有AI技術他就可以普查是這個意思你沒有回答我問題嘛這三個縣市是就是做得不錯所以我們在事辦就優先讓他們有這個AI的機械手臂來做篩選嘛對不對\n665241\t692657\t應該我們就是用這樣鼓勵我覺得我覺得不為過啦我覺得不為過喔因為你不可能因為在事辦的過程裡面你不可能一次全國全國22個縣市都來做這個事情嘛所以你當然會選擇就是說你跟跟我們這個政策比較落實去執行的跟中央比較配合的然後也做比較淋漓盡致的我當然有這樣的先進的這個AI的這個篩選的手臂來讓你優先事辦OK啊減少你們的人力嘛\n693897\t716603\t但是相對的我要表達就是相對的其他的18個縣市到底是出了什麼狀況18個縣市在廢棄物的進場上面也沒有出特別的狀況其實剛才委員第一句話就已經講了尤其是彰化那個案例那個案例其實是全國都有訂定進場的飲食標準所以很多人在講就是說垃圾\n717143\t718665\t〔廢棄物暫存量逐年攀升〕\n738287\t753452\t我覺得是這樣,要怎麼去釐清,問署長就清楚了嘛,因為署長剛才就已經打呼我,他有掌握嘛,確實很多有這個狀況發生嘛,只不過是不是有沒有很精細的去掌握他的狀況到底是什麼樣嘛。\n755477\t776265\t所以 署長剛剛你要問的問題你要提出來的問題署長剛剛已經答覆你的所以我現在我要具體這樣要求了請部長待會研究好不好一個月來提出這相關報告第一個就針對全國各縣市的垃圾分類試驗回收是否有落實執行進行一個大盤點那到底有多少製作物被送進葫蘆爐\n777225\t806080\t我覺得我們有責任要去做掌握這個報告是不是可以一個月給委員會來做參考這第一個第二個就是說針對這個輔助的回收還有這個分選等AI的智能相關技術進行相關預算的評估就像你們現在已經做這樣的一個處理那是不是可以普及但是我知道他還是要test一段時間差不多多久你的預算規模要到多少\n807000\t807781\t謝謝劉建國委員的發言\n","txt":"請劉建國委員發言\n好謝謝召我今天排這個專欄來報告來做討論那最主要就是廢棄物的暫存量逐年攀升嘛為什麼會逐年去攀升然後廢棄物的處理的這個政策短中長程的規劃我想新部長要有新氣象但是這個老問題也需要新部長用新的思維來做面對嘛我這邊先請部長看這個照片\n這個叫白匯新粒環保局坦承只有回收進焚化爐網友探被糟蹋然後就主要是民眾在辛苦在家分裂結果到頭還是做白工他還是進到這個焚化爐另外還有2023市彰化縣的這個西州焚化爐\n福道廠在做落地檢查﹖那就發現有一包是含有這個滋收物﹖滋有回收物﹖達15件以上﹖或除以50%以上﹖他立即來將這個全車退回﹖重新分類﹖並記點要求清潔隊至同化廠接受教育訓練﹖\n公所清潔隊不得不落實垃圾破帶檢查也因此這個去年的垃圾量減少到5000公噸以上那就相當於1000台以上的垃圾車的這個量那我是想說從2018一直到2023臺灣的這個整個回收的制度還是充滿著問題那這個問題我們就要面對不然再看一個這個表格這是近6年\n近6年的臺灣整個生產的一般加護的垃圾量平均還在400多萬公噸左右\n我們看這個表格是紅色的數字這個基本上除了110年降到389萬多那其他平均都在400多甚至到112年已經來到480幾萬然後你再看這6年的資源垃圾的成長從107年480幾一直到現在已經來到了620幾萬\n結結高升我不曉得台灣人民很努力的在配合政策然後大家也都有資源回收分類的這樣的一個概念或經驗大家都在落實但是這個支出為什麼會結結上升然後一般垃圾的處理量也卻沒有降下來\n報告委這個有幾個因素啦齁其實這個資源回收的增加最主要就是說我們的網購盛行之後有很多的這個大型的這個這個箱子等等這個進入到這個回收這個是真的成長的非常非常的多那另外一個呢就是我們剛有提到的就是算法例如說我們現在把很多的這個例行性的非例行性排除的垃圾把它算進去所以有幾年的確是在升高當中啦\n所以這個其實是例如說我舉例像這個燒金紙燒金紙在我們的這個裡面有4點多趴我們以前都不會算在這裡面現在算進去因為集中燒金紙我們推行這個偵測降低空污那甚至還有一個大型活動的這個垃圾也會進來所以也讓整個垃圾量突然逐漸的一個增高當然目前最主要還是國內因為疫情國內人這個國人生活型態的改變外食比例也變多\nOK外資比例偏多去增加這個量我可以我倒可以接受但是你想說燒金紙這4%算進去這裡面對對現在的算法就是112年之後這個跳高的原因就是說包含燒金紙或是大型活動或是工程美化災害等等全部都要我們算法我們算的也比以前精準了啦\n是112年才算進去?112年算但之前107年的話是又把這個所謂的員工一般的公司的員工攀升的廢棄物也算進來所以這個以前是沒有算得那麼好啦我們現在全部一個一個都當成是一般廢棄物所以這個數據就會往上走但是\n部長你的意思是說113年把這個燒淨的4%順進去還有其他最多的還是大型活動以前大型活動就當成是事業廢棄物在處理現在把它歸類於一般廢棄物\n但如果這樣對照前一年來講也也也只不過增加多少827扣掉799對所有多少33萬噸33萬噸對啊對對我覺得應該不是這樣比例吧就是111年開始是有把那個開始放進去啦114我說錯了111年\n那這樣我就要看你們的細項了你這樣講我覺得有點奇怪我覺得這樣這個統計數據它的來源好像不是不是很精準那這樣這個源頭的一個處理的情況就這麼不精準難怪你這個相關的數量會節節的攀升啊而且會居高不下\n以前的算法的確是籠統就是從源頭這樣分類多少現在是項目項目都有了那我就麻煩新部長道論是不是把你們的什麼計算方式重新定義清楚換個定義清楚然後讓我們做參考嘛好不好我們到時候就可以做這個相關比較嘛但是另外有一點就是地方的環保局會不會只挑這個高價的吃蔬物再利用處理嘛那其他的低價的吃蔬物也因為處理麻煩\n並沒有任何價值,像餐盒之類的,還是即便民眾分裂之後,最後還是盡到文化的意圖,會不會這樣?餐具類的我們是有補貼,我們還是會去督導說有些地方青年隊,因為他有時候飆售他就\n有些是這樣子\n好 那我們這邊會來這個來這個輔導你們怎麼好意思回答我說有些就是這樣那這樣你叫你叫百姓去陪你們做資源回收到底是什麼你最終還是到婚禮去啊的確是少數啊那我們沒有你的少數是幾趴沒有沒有沒有 書長講清楚你的少數是幾趴你的少數是幾趴講清楚是是是\n我相信你們相關有統計的數據嘛你讓我們知道啊如果資源回收是這樣再做處理那你這個政策顯然還有執行力確實是很大的問題存在的因為有些地方的青年隊他有時候我們還是需要去輔導他然後才能夠完全按照我們的方式來做啦台灣的資源回收已經做幾年了我們到現在還用輔導這兩個字\n這不對吧?你今天不落入針對整個你要進場的這些垃圾破帶檢查如果查到說你的失蹤物已經高過多少或怎麼樣全部就是退回然後還要祭典然後還到那個地方去做教育訓練\n你只要你只要強硬起來的情況之下他可以馬上一年的幾乎可以減少減少到5000噸然後相當於1000台我剛剛開場白就講這些話了但如果你現在把他視而不見他用輔導的方式去做處理這麼軟性的的手段在做處理\n那你當然會高居不下啊你當然站不下來啊這個也是原因之一啊絕對不是成為部長你現在接受到的訊息這樣而已嘛我覺得這大大有問題勒我們台灣跟人家講說我們的自由回收做了多進步啊怎麼會人民百姓配合的情況之下你把這些東西因為它低價所以你沒辦法處理所以你現在用輔導的方式欸這沒道理勒你講這個不通吧\n報告委員這個數據上我會在來跟我們同仁一起來把它一個一個把它算清楚好不好請部長不斷慎重面對這個事情看怎樣處理另外就是說部長也有講過環境部要來做數位轉型這個我絕對700%支持\n為什麼只有他們有?\n提供了\n報告委員,委員所指導的這一個部分其實在宜蘭、新北跟現在嘉義我們都在試辦就是說剛才委員特別提到就是說近文化場其實那些支收物15件以上等等這個制度現在全國其實都有這個制度那為了更瞭解它的熱值跟辨別支收所以有這一個試辦計畫正在進行那如果它現在辨識率大概80%左右\n那大概還要兩年的一個訓練如果成功的話我們會推廣到所有文化場以上為什麼先選擇這三個縣市新北、嘉義還有宜蘭嘛對不對是的是他們這三個縣市的整個製作物就是像我講的就是非常不落實通常就有文化爐所以優先他們選擇\n所以這三個縣市就是因為分類特別好很積極沒有成如剛才署長所講的這個狀況持續發生所以我們有AI新的這樣的一個技術所必就讓他們可以來先行試用試辦以之獎勵嘛應該是這麼講嘛對不對\n這一個制度其實以往是用牧師的檢查\n那我們是希望他以前叫做抽查嘛現在希望能夠普查如果有AI技術他就可以普查是這個意思你沒有回答我問題嘛這三個縣市是就是做得不錯所以我們在事辦就優先讓他們有這個AI的機械手臂來做篩選嘛對不對\n應該我們就是用這樣鼓勵我覺得我覺得不為過啦我覺得不為過喔因為你不可能因為在事辦的過程裡面你不可能一次全國全國22個縣市都來做這個事情嘛所以你當然會選擇就是說你跟跟我們這個政策比較落實去執行的跟中央比較配合的然後也做比較淋漓盡致的我當然有這樣的先進的這個AI的這個篩選的手臂來讓你優先事辦OK啊減少你們的人力嘛\n但是相對的我要表達就是相對的其他的18個縣市到底是出了什麼狀況18個縣市在廢棄物的進場上面也沒有出特別的狀況其實剛才委員第一句話就已經講了尤其是彰化那個案例那個案例其實是全國都有訂定進場的飲食標準所以很多人在講就是說垃圾\n〔廢棄物暫存量逐年攀升〕\n我覺得是這樣,要怎麼去釐清,問署長就清楚了嘛,因為署長剛才就已經打呼我,他有掌握嘛,確實很多有這個狀況發生嘛,只不過是不是有沒有很精細的去掌握他的狀況到底是什麼樣嘛。\n所以 署長剛剛你要問的問題你要提出來的問題署長剛剛已經答覆你的所以我現在我要具體這樣要求了請部長待會研究好不好一個月來提出這相關報告第一個就針對全國各縣市的垃圾分類試驗回收是否有落實執行進行一個大盤點那到底有多少製作物被送進葫蘆爐\n我覺得我們有責任要去做掌握這個報告是不是可以一個月給委員會來做參考這第一個第二個就是說針對這個輔助的回收還有這個分選等AI的智能相關技術進行相關預算的評估就像你們現在已經做這樣的一個處理那是不是可以普及但是我知道他還是要test一段時間差不多多久你的預算規模要到多少\n謝謝劉建國委員的發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.046 --> 00:03.547\n請劉建國委員發言\n\n00:17.679 --> 00:45.054\n好謝謝召我今天排這個專欄來報告來做討論那最主要就是廢棄物的暫存量逐年攀升嘛為什麼會逐年去攀升然後廢棄物的處理的這個政策短中長程的規劃我想新部長要有新氣象但是這個老問題也需要新部長用新的思維來做面對嘛我這邊先請部長看這個照片\n\n00:46.716 --> 01:01.970\n這個叫白匯新粒環保局坦承只有回收進焚化爐網友探被糟蹋然後就主要是民眾在辛苦在家分裂結果到頭還是做白工他還是進到這個焚化爐另外還有2023市彰化縣的這個西州焚化爐\n\n01:07.956 --> 01:25.208\n福道廠在做落地檢查﹖那就發現有一包是含有這個滋收物﹖滋有回收物﹖達15件以上﹖或除以50%以上﹖他立即來將這個全車退回﹖重新分類﹖並記點要求清潔隊至同化廠接受教育訓練﹖\n\n01:26.929 --> 01:54.109\n公所清潔隊不得不落實垃圾破帶檢查也因此這個去年的垃圾量減少到5000公噸以上那就相當於1000台以上的垃圾車的這個量那我是想說從2018一直到2023臺灣的這個整個回收的制度還是充滿著問題那這個問題我們就要面對不然再看一個這個表格這是近6年\n\n01:55.051 --> 02:00.981\n近6年的臺灣整個生產的一般加護的垃圾量平均還在400多萬公噸左右\n\n02:05.202 --> 02:19.390\n我們看這個表格是紅色的數字這個基本上除了110年降到389萬多那其他平均都在400多甚至到112年已經來到480幾萬然後你再看這6年的資源垃圾的成長從107年480幾一直到現在已經來到了620幾萬\n\n02:36.380 --> 02:55.049\n結結高升我不曉得台灣人民很努力的在配合政策然後大家也都有資源回收分類的這樣的一個概念或經驗大家都在落實但是這個支出為什麼會結結上升然後一般垃圾的處理量也卻沒有降下來\n\n02:56.871 --> 03:22.448\n報告委這個有幾個因素啦齁其實這個資源回收的增加最主要就是說我們的網購盛行之後有很多的這個大型的這個這個箱子等等這個進入到這個回收這個是真的成長的非常非常的多那另外一個呢就是我們剛有提到的就是算法例如說我們現在把很多的這個例行性的非例行性排除的垃圾把它算進去所以有幾年的確是在升高當中啦\n\n03:22.848 --> 03:48.740\n所以這個其實是例如說我舉例像這個燒金紙燒金紙在我們的這個裡面有4點多趴我們以前都不會算在這裡面現在算進去因為集中燒金紙我們推行這個偵測降低空污那甚至還有一個大型活動的這個垃圾也會進來所以也讓整個垃圾量突然逐漸的一個增高當然目前最主要還是國內因為疫情國內人這個國人生活型態的改變外食比例也變多\n\n03:49.673 --> 04:09.264\nOK外資比例偏多去增加這個量我可以我倒可以接受但是你想說燒金紙這4%算進去這裡面對對現在的算法就是112年之後這個跳高的原因就是說包含燒金紙或是大型活動或是工程美化災害等等全部都要我們算法我們算的也比以前精準了啦\n\n04:10.004 --> 04:27.784\n是112年才算進去?112年算但之前107年的話是又把這個所謂的員工一般的公司的員工攀升的廢棄物也算進來所以這個以前是沒有算得那麼好啦我們現在全部一個一個都當成是一般廢棄物所以這個數據就會往上走但是\n\n04:29.298 --> 04:41.301\n部長你的意思是說113年把這個燒淨的4%順進去還有其他最多的還是大型活動以前大型活動就當成是事業廢棄物在處理現在把它歸類於一般廢棄物\n\n04:43.732 --> 04:57.696\n但如果這樣對照前一年來講也也也只不過增加多少827扣掉799對所有多少33萬噸33萬噸對啊對對我覺得應該不是這樣比例吧就是111年開始是有把那個開始放進去啦114我說錯了111年\n\n05:05.956 --> 05:23.465\n那這樣我就要看你們的細項了你這樣講我覺得有點奇怪我覺得這樣這個統計數據它的來源好像不是不是很精準那這樣這個源頭的一個處理的情況就這麼不精準難怪你這個相關的數量會節節的攀升啊而且會居高不下\n\n05:24.065 --> 05:49.301\n以前的算法的確是籠統就是從源頭這樣分類多少現在是項目項目都有了那我就麻煩新部長道論是不是把你們的什麼計算方式重新定義清楚換個定義清楚然後讓我們做參考嘛好不好我們到時候就可以做這個相關比較嘛但是另外有一點就是地方的環保局會不會只挑這個高價的吃蔬物再利用處理嘛那其他的低價的吃蔬物也因為處理麻煩\n\n05:51.603 --> 06:07.630\n並沒有任何價值,像餐盒之類的,還是即便民眾分裂之後,最後還是盡到文化的意圖,會不會這樣?餐具類的我們是有補貼,我們還是會去督導說有些地方青年隊,因為他有時候飆售他就\n\n06:08.370 --> 06:08.490\n有些是這樣子\n\n06:27.113 --> 06:45.785\n好那我們這邊會來這個來這個輔導你們怎麼好意思回答我說有些就是這樣那這樣你叫你叫百姓去陪你們做資源回收到底是什麼你最終還是到婚禮去啊的確是少數啊那我們沒有你的少數是幾趴沒有沒有沒有書長講清楚你的少數是幾趴你的少數是幾趴講清楚是是是\n\n06:48.238 --> 07:13.432\n我相信你們相關有統計的數據嘛你讓我們知道啊如果資源回收是這樣再做處理那你這個政策顯然還有執行力確實是很大的問題存在的因為有些地方的青年隊他有時候我們還是需要去輔導他然後才能夠完全按照我們的方式來做啦台灣的資源回收已經做幾年了我們到現在還用輔導這兩個字\n\n07:16.131 --> 07:32.700\n這不對吧?你今天不落入針對整個你要進場的這些垃圾破帶檢查如果查到說你的失蹤物已經高過多少或怎麼樣全部就是退回然後還要祭典然後還到那個地方去做教育訓練\n\n07:34.178 --> 07:50.332\n你只要你只要強硬起來的情況之下他可以馬上一年的幾乎可以減少減少到5000噸然後相當於1000台我剛剛開場白就講這些話了但如果你現在把他視而不見他用輔導的方式去做處理這麼軟性的的手段在做處理\n\n07:51.033 --> 08:15.790\n那你當然會高居不下啊你當然站不下來啊這個也是原因之一啊絕對不是成為部長你現在接受到的訊息這樣而已嘛我覺得這大大有問題勒我們台灣跟人家講說我們的自由回收做了多進步啊怎麼會人民百姓配合的情況之下你把這些東西因為它低價所以你沒辦法處理所以你現在用輔導的方式欸這沒道理勒你講這個不通吧\n\n08:18.380 --> 08:31.879\n報告委員這個數據上我會在來跟我們同仁一起來把它一個一個把它算清楚好不好請部長不斷慎重面對這個事情看怎樣處理另外就是說部長也有講過環境部要來做數位轉型這個我絕對700%支持\n\n08:34.142 --> 08:34.382\n為什麼只有他們有?\n\n09:02.985 --> 09:03.187\n提供了\n\n09:05.322 --> 09:33.380\n報告委員,委員所指導的這一個部分其實在宜蘭、新北跟現在嘉義我們都在試辦就是說剛才委員特別提到就是說近文化場其實那些支收物15件以上等等這個制度現在全國其實都有這個制度那為了更瞭解它的熱值跟辨別支收所以有這一個試辦計畫正在進行那如果它現在辨識率大概80%左右\n\n09:34.961 --> 09:51.898\n那大概還要兩年的一個訓練如果成功的話我們會推廣到所有文化場以上為什麼先選擇這三個縣市新北、嘉義還有宜蘭嘛對不對是的是他們這三個縣市的整個製作物就是像我講的就是非常不落實通常就有文化爐所以優先他們選擇\n\n09:52.679 --> 09:57.302\n所以這三個縣市就是因為分類特別好很積極沒有成如剛才署長所講的這個狀況持續發生所以我們有AI新的這樣的一個技術所必就讓他們可以來先行試用試辦以之獎勵嘛應該是這麼講嘛對不對\n\n10:20.059 --> 10:21.200\n這一個制度其實以往是用牧師的檢查\n\n10:46.098 --> 11:04.040\n那我們是希望他以前叫做抽查嘛現在希望能夠普查如果有AI技術他就可以普查是這個意思你沒有回答我問題嘛這三個縣市是就是做得不錯所以我們在事辦就優先讓他們有這個AI的機械手臂來做篩選嘛對不對\n\n11:05.241 --> 11:32.657\n應該我們就是用這樣鼓勵我覺得我覺得不為過啦我覺得不為過喔因為你不可能因為在事辦的過程裡面你不可能一次全國全國22個縣市都來做這個事情嘛所以你當然會選擇就是說你跟跟我們這個政策比較落實去執行的跟中央比較配合的然後也做比較淋漓盡致的我當然有這樣的先進的這個AI的這個篩選的手臂來讓你優先事辦OK啊減少你們的人力嘛\n\n11:33.897 --> 11:56.603\n但是相對的我要表達就是相對的其他的18個縣市到底是出了什麼狀況18個縣市在廢棄物的進場上面也沒有出特別的狀況其實剛才委員第一句話就已經講了尤其是彰化那個案例那個案例其實是全國都有訂定進場的飲食標準所以很多人在講就是說垃圾\n\n11:57.143 --> 11:58.665\n〔廢棄物暫存量逐年攀升〕\n\n12:18.287 --> 12:33.452\n我覺得是這樣,要怎麼去釐清,問署長就清楚了嘛,因為署長剛才就已經打呼我,他有掌握嘛,確實很多有這個狀況發生嘛,只不過是不是有沒有很精細的去掌握他的狀況到底是什麼樣嘛。\n\n12:35.477 --> 12:56.265\n所以署長剛剛你要問的問題你要提出來的問題署長剛剛已經答覆你的所以我現在我要具體這樣要求了請部長待會研究好不好一個月來提出這相關報告第一個就針對全國各縣市的垃圾分類試驗回收是否有落實執行進行一個大盤點那到底有多少製作物被送進葫蘆爐\n\n12:57.225 --> 13:26.080\n我覺得我們有責任要去做掌握這個報告是不是可以一個月給委員會來做參考這第一個第二個就是說針對這個輔助的回收還有這個分選等AI的智能相關技術進行相關預算的評估就像你們現在已經做這樣的一個處理那是不是可以普及但是我知道他還是要test一段時間差不多多久你的預算規模要到多少\n\n13:27.000 --> 13:27.781\n謝謝劉建國委員的發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.046,"end":3.547,"text":"請劉建國委員發言"},{"start":17.679,"end":45.054,"text":"好謝謝召我今天排這個專欄來報告來做討論那最主要就是廢棄物的暫存量逐年攀升嘛為什麼會逐年去攀升然後廢棄物的處理的這個政策短中長程的規劃我想新部長要有新氣象但是這個老問題也需要新部長用新的思維來做面對嘛我這邊先請部長看這個照片"},{"start":46.716,"end":61.97,"text":"這個叫白匯新粒環保局坦承只有回收進焚化爐網友探被糟蹋然後就主要是民眾在辛苦在家分裂結果到頭還是做白工他還是進到這個焚化爐另外還有2023市彰化縣的這個西州焚化爐"},{"start":67.956,"end":85.208,"text":"福道廠在做落地檢查﹖那就發現有一包是含有這個滋收物﹖滋有回收物﹖達15件以上﹖或除以50%以上﹖他立即來將這個全車退回﹖重新分類﹖並記點要求清潔隊至同化廠接受教育訓練﹖"},{"start":86.929,"end":114.109,"text":"公所清潔隊不得不落實垃圾破帶檢查也因此這個去年的垃圾量減少到5000公噸以上那就相當於1000台以上的垃圾車的這個量那我是想說從2018一直到2023臺灣的這個整個回收的制度還是充滿著問題那這個問題我們就要面對不然再看一個這個表格這是近6年"},{"start":115.051,"end":120.981,"text":"近6年的臺灣整個生產的一般加護的垃圾量平均還在400多萬公噸左右"},{"start":125.202,"end":139.39,"text":"我們看這個表格是紅色的數字這個基本上除了110年降到389萬多那其他平均都在400多甚至到112年已經來到480幾萬然後你再看這6年的資源垃圾的成長從107年480幾一直到現在已經來到了620幾萬"},{"start":156.38,"end":175.049,"text":"結結高升我不曉得台灣人民很努力的在配合政策然後大家也都有資源回收分類的這樣的一個概念或經驗大家都在落實但是這個支出為什麼會結結上升然後一般垃圾的處理量也卻沒有降下來"},{"start":176.871,"end":202.448,"text":"報告委這個有幾個因素啦齁其實這個資源回收的增加最主要就是說我們的網購盛行之後有很多的這個大型的這個這個箱子等等這個進入到這個回收這個是真的成長的非常非常的多那另外一個呢就是我們剛有提到的就是算法例如說我們現在把很多的這個例行性的非例行性排除的垃圾把它算進去所以有幾年的確是在升高當中啦"},{"start":202.848,"end":228.74,"text":"所以這個其實是例如說我舉例像這個燒金紙燒金紙在我們的這個裡面有4點多趴我們以前都不會算在這裡面現在算進去因為集中燒金紙我們推行這個偵測降低空污那甚至還有一個大型活動的這個垃圾也會進來所以也讓整個垃圾量突然逐漸的一個增高當然目前最主要還是國內因為疫情國內人這個國人生活型態的改變外食比例也變多"},{"start":229.673,"end":249.264,"text":"OK外資比例偏多去增加這個量我可以我倒可以接受但是你想說燒金紙這4%算進去這裡面對對現在的算法就是112年之後這個跳高的原因就是說包含燒金紙或是大型活動或是工程美化災害等等全部都要我們算法我們算的也比以前精準了啦"},{"start":250.004,"end":267.784,"text":"是112年才算進去?112年算但之前107年的話是又把這個所謂的員工一般的公司的員工攀升的廢棄物也算進來所以這個以前是沒有算得那麼好啦我們現在全部一個一個都當成是一般廢棄物所以這個數據就會往上走但是"},{"start":269.298,"end":281.301,"text":"部長你的意思是說113年把這個燒淨的4%順進去還有其他最多的還是大型活動以前大型活動就當成是事業廢棄物在處理現在把它歸類於一般廢棄物"},{"start":283.732,"end":297.696,"text":"但如果這樣對照前一年來講也也也只不過增加多少827扣掉799對所有多少33萬噸33萬噸對啊對對我覺得應該不是這樣比例吧就是111年開始是有把那個開始放進去啦114我說錯了111年"},{"start":305.956,"end":323.465,"text":"那這樣我就要看你們的細項了你這樣講我覺得有點奇怪我覺得這樣這個統計數據它的來源好像不是不是很精準那這樣這個源頭的一個處理的情況就這麼不精準難怪你這個相關的數量會節節的攀升啊而且會居高不下"},{"start":324.065,"end":349.301,"text":"以前的算法的確是籠統就是從源頭這樣分類多少現在是項目項目都有了那我就麻煩新部長道論是不是把你們的什麼計算方式重新定義清楚換個定義清楚然後讓我們做參考嘛好不好我們到時候就可以做這個相關比較嘛但是另外有一點就是地方的環保局會不會只挑這個高價的吃蔬物再利用處理嘛那其他的低價的吃蔬物也因為處理麻煩"},{"start":351.603,"end":367.63,"text":"並沒有任何價值,像餐盒之類的,還是即便民眾分裂之後,最後還是盡到文化的意圖,會不會這樣?餐具類的我們是有補貼,我們還是會去督導說有些地方青年隊,因為他有時候飆售他就"},{"start":368.37,"end":368.49,"text":"有些是這樣子"},{"start":387.113,"end":405.785,"text":"好 那我們這邊會來這個來這個輔導你們怎麼好意思回答我說有些就是這樣那這樣你叫你叫百姓去陪你們做資源回收到底是什麼你最終還是到婚禮去啊的確是少數啊那我們沒有你的少數是幾趴沒有沒有沒有 書長講清楚你的少數是幾趴你的少數是幾趴講清楚是是是"},{"start":408.238,"end":433.432,"text":"我相信你們相關有統計的數據嘛你讓我們知道啊如果資源回收是這樣再做處理那你這個政策顯然還有執行力確實是很大的問題存在的因為有些地方的青年隊他有時候我們還是需要去輔導他然後才能夠完全按照我們的方式來做啦台灣的資源回收已經做幾年了我們到現在還用輔導這兩個字"},{"start":436.131,"end":452.7,"text":"這不對吧?你今天不落入針對整個你要進場的這些垃圾破帶檢查如果查到說你的失蹤物已經高過多少或怎麼樣全部就是退回然後還要祭典然後還到那個地方去做教育訓練"},{"start":454.178,"end":470.332,"text":"你只要你只要強硬起來的情況之下他可以馬上一年的幾乎可以減少減少到5000噸然後相當於1000台我剛剛開場白就講這些話了但如果你現在把他視而不見他用輔導的方式去做處理這麼軟性的的手段在做處理"},{"start":471.033,"end":495.79,"text":"那你當然會高居不下啊你當然站不下來啊這個也是原因之一啊絕對不是成為部長你現在接受到的訊息這樣而已嘛我覺得這大大有問題勒我們台灣跟人家講說我們的自由回收做了多進步啊怎麼會人民百姓配合的情況之下你把這些東西因為它低價所以你沒辦法處理所以你現在用輔導的方式欸這沒道理勒你講這個不通吧"},{"start":498.38,"end":511.879,"text":"報告委員這個數據上我會在來跟我們同仁一起來把它一個一個把它算清楚好不好請部長不斷慎重面對這個事情看怎樣處理另外就是說部長也有講過環境部要來做數位轉型這個我絕對700%支持"},{"start":514.142,"end":514.382,"text":"為什麼只有他們有?"},{"start":542.985,"end":543.187,"text":"提供了"},{"start":545.322,"end":573.38,"text":"報告委員,委員所指導的這一個部分其實在宜蘭、新北跟現在嘉義我們都在試辦就是說剛才委員特別提到就是說近文化場其實那些支收物15件以上等等這個制度現在全國其實都有這個制度那為了更瞭解它的熱值跟辨別支收所以有這一個試辦計畫正在進行那如果它現在辨識率大概80%左右"},{"start":574.961,"end":591.898,"text":"那大概還要兩年的一個訓練如果成功的話我們會推廣到所有文化場以上為什麼先選擇這三個縣市新北、嘉義還有宜蘭嘛對不對是的是他們這三個縣市的整個製作物就是像我講的就是非常不落實通常就有文化爐所以優先他們選擇"},{"start":592.679,"end":597.302,"text":"所以這三個縣市就是因為分類特別好很積極沒有成如剛才署長所講的這個狀況持續發生所以我們有AI新的這樣的一個技術所必就讓他們可以來先行試用試辦以之獎勵嘛應該是這麼講嘛對不對"},{"start":620.059,"end":621.2,"text":"這一個制度其實以往是用牧師的檢查"},{"start":646.098,"end":664.04,"text":"那我們是希望他以前叫做抽查嘛現在希望能夠普查如果有AI技術他就可以普查是這個意思你沒有回答我問題嘛這三個縣市是就是做得不錯所以我們在事辦就優先讓他們有這個AI的機械手臂來做篩選嘛對不對"},{"start":665.241,"end":692.657,"text":"應該我們就是用這樣鼓勵我覺得我覺得不為過啦我覺得不為過喔因為你不可能因為在事辦的過程裡面你不可能一次全國全國22個縣市都來做這個事情嘛所以你當然會選擇就是說你跟跟我們這個政策比較落實去執行的跟中央比較配合的然後也做比較淋漓盡致的我當然有這樣的先進的這個AI的這個篩選的手臂來讓你優先事辦OK啊減少你們的人力嘛"},{"start":693.897,"end":716.603,"text":"但是相對的我要表達就是相對的其他的18個縣市到底是出了什麼狀況18個縣市在廢棄物的進場上面也沒有出特別的狀況其實剛才委員第一句話就已經講了尤其是彰化那個案例那個案例其實是全國都有訂定進場的飲食標準所以很多人在講就是說垃圾"},{"start":717.143,"end":718.665,"text":"〔廢棄物暫存量逐年攀升〕"},{"start":738.287,"end":753.452,"text":"我覺得是這樣,要怎麼去釐清,問署長就清楚了嘛,因為署長剛才就已經打呼我,他有掌握嘛,確實很多有這個狀況發生嘛,只不過是不是有沒有很精細的去掌握他的狀況到底是什麼樣嘛。"},{"start":755.477,"end":776.265,"text":"所以 署長剛剛你要問的問題你要提出來的問題署長剛剛已經答覆你的所以我現在我要具體這樣要求了請部長待會研究好不好一個月來提出這相關報告第一個就針對全國各縣市的垃圾分類試驗回收是否有落實執行進行一個大盤點那到底有多少製作物被送進葫蘆爐"},{"start":777.225,"end":806.08,"text":"我覺得我們有責任要去做掌握這個報告是不是可以一個月給委員會來做參考這第一個第二個就是說針對這個輔助的回收還有這個分選等AI的智能相關技術進行相關預算的評估就像你們現在已經做這樣的一個處理那是不是可以普及但是我知道他還是要test一段時間差不多多久你的預算規模要到多少"},{"start":807,"end":807.781,"text":"謝謝劉建國委員的發言"}]}}}}