{"id":153747,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153747","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0d7b1f4370c473d5106f7a0955a8283c79f99d17e212a4188d38369fa36eb79f165cd330bf6083615ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林俊憲","委員發言時間":"12:07:21 - 12:13:18","影片長度":"00:05:57","會議時間":"2024-06-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長就「廢棄物暫存量逐年攀升，廢棄物處理政策短中長程規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【6月5日及6日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-06","start_time":"2024-06-06T12:07:21+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-06T12:13:18+08:00","duration":357,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-20"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":791,"blocks":[["林委員俊憲：（12時7分）謝謝主席！本席邀請我們環境部彭部長。"],["主席：請彭部長。"],["彭部長啓明：委員好！"],["林委員俊憲：部長好！首先要跟部長反映一件事情，就是像石棉瓦這種建材，它的粉塵有致癌的危險，現在清理量統計出來，發現全國最多的在臺南，全國的石棉瓦屋大概有23%在臺南市，統計起來有五萬四千九百多棟，總重量約占全國的20%，占全國總屋數大概23%，現在我們環境部有補助要大家把這個東西給拆掉，但是你補助的申請資格大概只分三類，就是個人住家、農業等設施、寺廟和教堂等等，但是這五萬四千多棟不是全部都在這3類裡面，其他沒有在你補助範圍內的石棉瓦屋你要叫人家自己拆，且通常都沒有給他補助，失去原來補助的意義。既然你要補助了，為什麼不全數補助呢？所以我們希望環境部是不是可以來協助，既然已經有補助的標準和對象，那為什麼還要再區分呢？例如很多農會的房舍，臺南三十幾個農會的房子都是日本時代早期留下來的，那時候根本不知道石棉瓦的可怕，既然你們要補助拆除，那是不是可以一體適用，全部都予以補助？這點提供給部長參考。"],["彭部長啓明：這個讓我們來研議一下，好不好？"],["賴署長瑩瑩：因為這個拆除的部分還是要看屋主，另外就是拆除的工作有些是屬於國土署的範疇，環境部這邊的主責是處理，把這個物品可以妥善處理好，所以我們是去爭取經費協助民眾做處理。"],["林委員俊憲：你們既然有這個辦法就是希望不要再有這種東西存在，對不對？可是你現在就只是補助一部分的範圍，那其他人就失去動機嘛！若是要他自己花錢，當然他就不肯或者是他也負擔不起，這就失去了你希望不要再有石棉瓦屋這種東西的意義了，是不是這樣？","另外我再提一個東西，就是農民栽種作物都會用那種農膜，部長你知道嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：我知道。"],["林委員俊憲：我用一個圖來顯示，像鳳梨田，其實不止是種鳳梨，農民在栽種很多作物時，都會將農地用這種農膜包起來。我舉個例子，像我們臺南很多種鳳梨的一定都要用這個，現在這種農膜很難處理，農民要自己處理，清潔隊也不收，因為它不是法定的回收物，所以業者的回收意願也很低，根本不要。那農民要怎麼辦？很多就用耕耘機把它絞碎留在田地裡面，這樣就會影響到有些植物的根，因為土裡面有這些塑膠的碎片。請問這種農膜我們要怎麼來處理？這種情形非常普遍，很多農地都會有這種狀況。"],["賴署長瑩瑩：所以我們是跟農糧署合作，他們會補助農民購置可以回收農膜的機器或是先把農膜暫置，然後利用設施將其去土再送去再利用機構。"],["林委員俊憲：因為現在農民都自己用很不環保的方式處理，有的是偷偷燒掉，有的就絞一絞留在農田裡面，有鑑於這種狀況，我們希望你們應該要輔導農民，幫助農民，你說現在有建立一個農膜的回收機制？"],["彭部長啓明：我們現在有補助地方政府，跟他們一起合作來建立這個回收的機制，現在有在進行。"],["賴署長瑩瑩：農糧署對於回收農膜的機器有給予補助。"],["林委員俊憲：對收這種農膜的機器現在有開始補助嗎？"],["賴署長瑩瑩：有。"],["林委員俊憲：那我們廢棄物清理法是不是應該要公告這種東西要不要回收？以後就是地方政府回收、地方政府負責處理嗎？"],["賴署長瑩瑩：對，因為這個是屬於產業廢棄物，所以如果說他把這個土都去掉，收了之後，他就會送到塑膠廠去做再利用。"],["林委員俊憲：你們不是有一個應回收廢棄物的公告嗎？我覺得應該要把農膜納進來，等於你要強制回收，你們是不是應該做這樣的一個考慮？"],["賴署長瑩瑩：主要是因為它的數量少啦！其實如果把土去掉之後也可以回收……"],["林委員俊憲：是因為以前沒有回收所以你覺得數量少啦！正常來說大家的農田都會用到，對不對？數量怎麼會少？"],["彭部長啓明：一年現在是7,000噸啦！委員說的可能是事實，有可能更多啦！"],["林委員俊憲：對，因為以前沒有回收，所以都亂丟、亂處理，要不然就是自己燒掉，現在如果公告強制回收的話，那數量一定會比你現在看到的還要更多。"],["彭部長啓明：但是我怕農民的負擔會因此加重啦！"],["林委員俊憲：你們去補助他，幫助他嘛！你們思考一下啦！好不好？"],["彭部長啓明：好，我們跟農糧署研議。"],["林委員俊憲：謝謝部長！謝謝主席！"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝！"],["主席：謝謝林俊憲委員的發言。接下來請陳瑩委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":218,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-20","speakers":["黃秀芳","盧縣一","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","王正旭","賴惠員","牛煦庭","林淑芬","廖偉翔","洪申翰","劉建國","陳冠廷","林俊憲","陳瑩","葉元之","楊曜","王育敏","鍾佳濱","涂權吉"],"page_start":131,"meetingDate":["2024-06-06"],"gazette_id":"1136001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136001_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長就「廢棄物暫存量逐年攀升，廢棄物處理政策短中長程規劃」進行專題報告，並\n備質詢","agenda_id":"1136001_00003"}},"transcript":{"id":"153747","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153747","tool":"pyannote","id":"153747-pyannote"},"job_id":"LBKoh9gAqh6RhVWk","queued_at":"2024-06-06 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00:00:10,222\n謝主席本席要請我們環境部彭部長請彭部長\n\n2\n00:00:14,142 --> 00:00:33,193\n部長好部長一件事情跟你反映像石棉瓦這種建材它的粉塵有致癌的危險現在清理量統計出來全國最多在台南石棉瓦烏瓦全國有大概23%在台南市統計起來有54900多棟\n\n3\n00:00:37,848 --> 00:00:42,193\n這房子的數目啦占全國的總量大概20%啦占全國的總屋數大概23%啦那現在啊\n\n4\n00:00:49,464 --> 00:01:10,753\n我們環境部有在補助就是說大家要把這個東西給拆掉但是你補助的申請資格大概分三類就是你要個人住家或者是農業等等設施、寺廟、教堂等等但是這五萬四千都動不是全部都在這三類裡面\n\n5\n00:01:12,386 --> 00:01:36,958\n那其他沒有在你補助範圍內的誰沒有啊你要叫人家自己拆啊通常啊你沒有給他補助那失去原來你補助的意義你既然要補助了為什麼不全數補助呢所以我們希望我們環境部是不是可以來協助你既然已經有補助的標準和對象\n\n6\n00:01:38,850 --> 00:01:57,217\n為什麼還要再區分呢?例如有些很多農會啊,很多農會他的房舍,其實因為臺南啊,三十幾個農會啊,很多房子都是日本時代下來的,早期下來的,那時候根本什麼也不知道他的可怕嘛。那你既然要補助採取,那是不是可以一體試用啊?全部都予以補助啊?\n\n7\n00:02:00,709 --> 00:02:10,197\n這個我們研議一下好不好因為這個拆除的部分還是要看說他這個屋主啦那另外拆除的工作有些也是國土署他們的這個範疇\n\n8\n00:02:11,431 --> 00:02:35,123\n那環境部這邊呢我們的主責是處理把這個物品可以妥善處理好所以我們是去爭取經費把這個民眾來這個做處理對那你既然有這個辦法就是你希望不要再有這種東西的存在嘛是對不對那你現在補助就補助一部分的範圍那其他的他失去一個動力動機嘛或者是說他自己花錢你就沒有了\n\n9\n00:02:36,175 --> 00:02:45,588\n那也負擔不起,所以那你就失去了你希望不要再有石棉瓦屋這種東西的意義了,是不是這樣?好,那我再提一個東西也是啦,這農民啊\n\n10\n00:02:49,420 --> 00:02:52,821\n摘種東西都用那種籠膜摘種東西都用那種籠膜\n\n11\n00:03:14,335 --> 00:03:41,332\n然後呢現在這種籠膜很難處理啦因為農民要自己處理啦清潔隊也不收啦因為它不是法定的回收物啊那業者回收意願也很低啦根本不要啊那農民怎麼辦很多就把它繳稅啦耕耘機就把它繳稅留在田地裡面那就影響到第一個你有些植物的根等於在土裡面有這些塑膠的碎片\n\n12\n00:03:42,952 --> 00:04:03,084\n所以這種農磨我們要怎麼來處理?這個非常普遍,很多農地都有這種狀況農糧署合作他們會補助農民可以回收農磨的機器或說我要去把農磨佔置,把它去土的一些設施因為現在農民\n\n13\n00:04:05,768 --> 00:04:33,346\n對,現在農民都自己用很不環保的方式嘛。是。暗網偷燒的啦,他們說暗網亂用的,就在農田裡面。這種狀況的話,我們希望應該要輔導農民啦,來幫助農民。所以你說現在建立一個農模的回收機制嗎?我們現在要補助地方政府啦,跟他一起合作來建立這個回收的機制。現在我們有在進行。那個農業,那個農業老鼠他有補助那個收農模的機器。\n\n14\n00:04:34,372 --> 00:04:34,412\n拜訪委員\n\n15\n00:04:46,122 --> 00:04:53,045\n是不是因為有一個叫做公告因回收廢棄物我覺得應該要把籠膜給納進來就等於你要強制回收是不是應該做這樣的一個考慮\n\n16\n00:05:14,517 --> 00:05:43,418\n主要是說因為他的數量少啦那其實如果是把這個土去掉之後也可以是因為以前沒有回收你覺得數量少啦農田正常的大家也贏到對不對數量怎麼會少好不好一年現在是7000噸啦可能委員說的可能是40有可能更多啦對因為你覺得沒回收啊所以都沒錢沒用沒辦法自己收啊你現在如果公告強制回收的話那可能數量一定會比你現在看到的還要更多啦\n\n17\n00:05:43,778 --> 00:05:44,019\n謝謝林俊憲委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7424\t10222\t謝主席本席要請我們環境部彭部長請彭部長\n14142\t33193\t部長好部長一件事情跟你反映像石棉瓦這種建材它的粉塵有致癌的危險現在清理量統計出來全國最多在台南石棉瓦 烏瓦全國有大概23%在台南市統計起來有54900多棟\n37848\t42193\t這房子的數目啦占全國的總量大概20%啦占全國的總屋數大概23%啦那現在啊\n49464\t70753\t我們環境部有在補助就是說大家要把這個東西給拆掉但是你補助的申請資格大概分三類就是你要個人住家或者是農業等等設施、寺廟、教堂等等但是這五萬四千都動不是全部都在這三類裡面\n72386\t96958\t那其他沒有在你補助範圍內的誰沒有啊你要叫人家自己拆啊通常啊你沒有給他補助那失去原來你補助的意義你既然要補助了為什麼不全數補助呢所以我們希望我們環境部是不是可以來協助你既然已經有補助的標準和對象\n98850\t117217\t為什麼還要再區分呢?例如有些很多農會啊,很多農會他的房舍,其實因為臺南啊,三十幾個農會啊,很多房子都是日本時代下來的,早期下來的,那時候根本什麼也不知道他的可怕嘛。那你既然要補助採取,那是不是可以一體試用啊?全部都予以補助啊?\n120709\t130197\t這個我們研議一下好不好因為這個拆除的部分還是要看說他這個屋主啦那另外拆除的工作有些也是國土署他們的這個範疇\n131431\t155123\t那環境部這邊呢我們的主責是處理把這個物品可以妥善處理好所以我們是去爭取經費把這個民眾來這個做處理對那你既然有這個辦法就是你希望不要再有這種東西的存在嘛是對不對那你現在補助就補助一部分的範圍那其他的他失去一個動力動機嘛或者是說他自己花錢你就沒有了\n156175\t165588\t那也負擔不起,所以那你就失去了你希望不要再有石棉瓦屋這種東西的意義了,是不是這樣?好,那我再提一個東西也是啦,這農民啊\n169420\t172821\t摘種東西都用那種籠膜 摘種東西都用那種籠膜\n194335\t221332\t然後呢現在這種籠膜很難處理啦因為農民要自己處理啦清潔隊也不收啦因為它不是法定的回收物啊那業者回收意願也很低啦根本不要啊那農民怎麼辦很多就把它繳稅啦耕耘機就把它繳稅留在田地裡面那就影響到第一個你有些植物的根等於在土裡面有這些塑膠的碎片\n222952\t243084\t所以這種農磨我們要怎麼來處理?這個非常普遍,很多農地都有這種狀況農糧署合作他們會補助農民可以回收農磨的機器或說我要去把農磨佔置,把它去土的一些設施因為現在農民\n245768\t273346\t對,現在農民都自己用很不環保的方式嘛。是。暗網偷燒的啦,他們說暗網亂用的,就在農田裡面。這種狀況的話,我們希望應該要輔導農民啦,來幫助農民。所以你說現在建立一個農模的回收機制嗎?我們現在要補助地方政府啦,跟他一起合作來建立這個回收的機制。現在我們有在進行。那個農業,那個農業老鼠他有補助那個收農模的機器。\n274372\t274412\t拜訪委員\n286122\t293045\t是不是因為有一個叫做公告因回收廢棄物我覺得應該要把籠膜給納進來就等於你要強制回收是不是應該做這樣的一個考慮\n314517\t343418\t主要是說因為他的數量少啦那其實如果是把這個土去掉之後也可以是因為以前沒有回收你覺得數量少啦農田正常的大家也贏到對不對數量怎麼會少好不好一年現在是7000噸啦可能委員說的可能是40有可能更多啦對因為你覺得沒回收啊所以都沒錢沒用沒辦法自己收啊你現在如果公告強制回收的話那可能數量一定會比你現在看到的還要更多啦\n343778\t344019\t謝謝林俊憲委員\n","txt":"謝主席本席要請我們環境部彭部長請彭部長\n部長好部長一件事情跟你反映像石棉瓦這種建材它的粉塵有致癌的危險現在清理量統計出來全國最多在台南石棉瓦 烏瓦全國有大概23%在台南市統計起來有54900多棟\n這房子的數目啦占全國的總量大概20%啦占全國的總屋數大概23%啦那現在啊\n我們環境部有在補助就是說大家要把這個東西給拆掉但是你補助的申請資格大概分三類就是你要個人住家或者是農業等等設施、寺廟、教堂等等但是這五萬四千都動不是全部都在這三類裡面\n那其他沒有在你補助範圍內的誰沒有啊你要叫人家自己拆啊通常啊你沒有給他補助那失去原來你補助的意義你既然要補助了為什麼不全數補助呢所以我們希望我們環境部是不是可以來協助你既然已經有補助的標準和對象\n為什麼還要再區分呢?例如有些很多農會啊,很多農會他的房舍,其實因為臺南啊,三十幾個農會啊,很多房子都是日本時代下來的,早期下來的,那時候根本什麼也不知道他的可怕嘛。那你既然要補助採取,那是不是可以一體試用啊?全部都予以補助啊?\n這個我們研議一下好不好因為這個拆除的部分還是要看說他這個屋主啦那另外拆除的工作有些也是國土署他們的這個範疇\n那環境部這邊呢我們的主責是處理把這個物品可以妥善處理好所以我們是去爭取經費把這個民眾來這個做處理對那你既然有這個辦法就是你希望不要再有這種東西的存在嘛是對不對那你現在補助就補助一部分的範圍那其他的他失去一個動力動機嘛或者是說他自己花錢你就沒有了\n那也負擔不起,所以那你就失去了你希望不要再有石棉瓦屋這種東西的意義了,是不是這樣?好,那我再提一個東西也是啦,這農民啊\n摘種東西都用那種籠膜 摘種東西都用那種籠膜\n然後呢現在這種籠膜很難處理啦因為農民要自己處理啦清潔隊也不收啦因為它不是法定的回收物啊那業者回收意願也很低啦根本不要啊那農民怎麼辦很多就把它繳稅啦耕耘機就把它繳稅留在田地裡面那就影響到第一個你有些植物的根等於在土裡面有這些塑膠的碎片\n所以這種農磨我們要怎麼來處理?這個非常普遍,很多農地都有這種狀況農糧署合作他們會補助農民可以回收農磨的機器或說我要去把農磨佔置,把它去土的一些設施因為現在農民\n對,現在農民都自己用很不環保的方式嘛。是。暗網偷燒的啦,他們說暗網亂用的,就在農田裡面。這種狀況的話,我們希望應該要輔導農民啦,來幫助農民。所以你說現在建立一個農模的回收機制嗎?我們現在要補助地方政府啦,跟他一起合作來建立這個回收的機制。現在我們有在進行。那個農業,那個農業老鼠他有補助那個收農模的機器。\n拜訪委員\n是不是因為有一個叫做公告因回收廢棄物我覺得應該要把籠膜給納進來就等於你要強制回收是不是應該做這樣的一個考慮\n主要是說因為他的數量少啦那其實如果是把這個土去掉之後也可以是因為以前沒有回收你覺得數量少啦農田正常的大家也贏到對不對數量怎麼會少好不好一年現在是7000噸啦可能委員說的可能是40有可能更多啦對因為你覺得沒回收啊所以都沒錢沒用沒辦法自己收啊你現在如果公告強制回收的話那可能數量一定會比你現在看到的還要更多啦\n謝謝林俊憲委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.424 --> 00:10.222\n謝主席本席要請我們環境部彭部長請彭部長\n\n00:14.142 --> 00:33.193\n部長好部長一件事情跟你反映像石棉瓦這種建材它的粉塵有致癌的危險現在清理量統計出來全國最多在台南石棉瓦烏瓦全國有大概23%在台南市統計起來有54900多棟\n\n00:37.848 --> 00:42.193\n這房子的數目啦占全國的總量大概20%啦占全國的總屋數大概23%啦那現在啊\n\n00:49.464 --> 01:10.753\n我們環境部有在補助就是說大家要把這個東西給拆掉但是你補助的申請資格大概分三類就是你要個人住家或者是農業等等設施、寺廟、教堂等等但是這五萬四千都動不是全部都在這三類裡面\n\n01:12.386 --> 01:36.958\n那其他沒有在你補助範圍內的誰沒有啊你要叫人家自己拆啊通常啊你沒有給他補助那失去原來你補助的意義你既然要補助了為什麼不全數補助呢所以我們希望我們環境部是不是可以來協助你既然已經有補助的標準和對象\n\n01:38.850 --> 01:57.217\n為什麼還要再區分呢?例如有些很多農會啊,很多農會他的房舍,其實因為臺南啊,三十幾個農會啊,很多房子都是日本時代下來的,早期下來的,那時候根本什麼也不知道他的可怕嘛。那你既然要補助採取,那是不是可以一體試用啊?全部都予以補助啊?\n\n02:00.709 --> 02:10.197\n這個我們研議一下好不好因為這個拆除的部分還是要看說他這個屋主啦那另外拆除的工作有些也是國土署他們的這個範疇\n\n02:11.431 --> 02:35.123\n那環境部這邊呢我們的主責是處理把這個物品可以妥善處理好所以我們是去爭取經費把這個民眾來這個做處理對那你既然有這個辦法就是你希望不要再有這種東西的存在嘛是對不對那你現在補助就補助一部分的範圍那其他的他失去一個動力動機嘛或者是說他自己花錢你就沒有了\n\n02:36.175 --> 02:45.588\n那也負擔不起,所以那你就失去了你希望不要再有石棉瓦屋這種東西的意義了,是不是這樣?好,那我再提一個東西也是啦,這農民啊\n\n02:49.420 --> 02:52.821\n摘種東西都用那種籠膜摘種東西都用那種籠膜\n\n03:14.335 --> 03:41.332\n然後呢現在這種籠膜很難處理啦因為農民要自己處理啦清潔隊也不收啦因為它不是法定的回收物啊那業者回收意願也很低啦根本不要啊那農民怎麼辦很多就把它繳稅啦耕耘機就把它繳稅留在田地裡面那就影響到第一個你有些植物的根等於在土裡面有這些塑膠的碎片\n\n03:42.952 --> 04:03.084\n所以這種農磨我們要怎麼來處理?這個非常普遍,很多農地都有這種狀況農糧署合作他們會補助農民可以回收農磨的機器或說我要去把農磨佔置,把它去土的一些設施因為現在農民\n\n04:05.768 --> 04:33.346\n對,現在農民都自己用很不環保的方式嘛。是。暗網偷燒的啦,他們說暗網亂用的,就在農田裡面。這種狀況的話,我們希望應該要輔導農民啦,來幫助農民。所以你說現在建立一個農模的回收機制嗎?我們現在要補助地方政府啦,跟他一起合作來建立這個回收的機制。現在我們有在進行。那個農業,那個農業老鼠他有補助那個收農模的機器。\n\n04:34.372 --> 04:34.412\n拜訪委員\n\n04:46.122 --> 04:53.045\n是不是因為有一個叫做公告因回收廢棄物我覺得應該要把籠膜給納進來就等於你要強制回收是不是應該做這樣的一個考慮\n\n05:14.517 --> 05:43.418\n主要是說因為他的數量少啦那其實如果是把這個土去掉之後也可以是因為以前沒有回收你覺得數量少啦農田正常的大家也贏到對不對數量怎麼會少好不好一年現在是7000噸啦可能委員說的可能是40有可能更多啦對因為你覺得沒回收啊所以都沒錢沒用沒辦法自己收啊你現在如果公告強制回收的話那可能數量一定會比你現在看到的還要更多啦\n\n05:43.778 --> 05:44.019\n謝謝林俊憲委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.424,"end":10.222,"text":"謝主席本席要請我們環境部彭部長請彭部長"},{"start":14.142,"end":33.193,"text":"部長好部長一件事情跟你反映像石棉瓦這種建材它的粉塵有致癌的危險現在清理量統計出來全國最多在台南石棉瓦 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