{"id":153748,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153748","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0d7b1f4370c473d571cd5402c6676551b42b94709b0a08048d38369fa36eb79f9fb31201d8e0b9555ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"魯明哲","委員發言時間":"11:26:37 - 11:39:17","影片長度":"00:12:40","會議時間":"2024-06-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、邀請交通部就「台二線70K崩塌暨道路邊坡滑坡監控作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【合併詢答】【6月3日及6日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-06","start_time":"2024-06-06T11:26:37+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-06T11:39:17+08:00","duration":760,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-15"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":686,"blocks":[["魯委員明哲：（11時26分）謝謝主席，有請交通部陳次長和公路局陳局長。"],["主席：請陳次長及陳局長。"],["陳次長彥伯：委員好。"],["魯委員明哲：說真的，兩位都是從公路總局到公路局，也是前局長和現任局長，你們對於這個案子應該都非常熟，尤其公路總局邊坡的分類，我看是從你之前的時代一路到現在。請教一下，6月4日在基隆潮境公園入口處的崩塌、走山的過程，我看第二天李孟諺部長就很積極去看，我看好像是陳局長陪他去的，他那天對媒體講的第一段話，我是有點嚇到，是誰給他這些資料的？他這樣說，這次基隆發生崩塌的地點，邊坡外觀表面正常，植被生長情況也良好，過去亦無發生崩塌的現象。陳局長，這是你跟部長說的嗎？還是他自己擲筊夢到的？"],["陳局長文瑞：就是沒有大規模的，有零星落石，在112年的時候曾經有零星落石，我們有提升邊坡的等級，修復之後又降為C級。"],["魯委員明哲：所以表面看起來植被很好嗎？"],["陳局長文瑞：就是比較沒有致災的徵兆。"],["魯委員明哲：因為我重複看了一下現場民眾提供的圖片，不知道是不是我業障多，右邊是112年9月還沒有大崩塌之前，也就是說，部長在形容的右邊這個水泥經你們整個大面積整修完的結果，這面積多大？邊坡噴凝土掛網這麼大，部長去的時候已經崩下來了，可是你跟當地民眾說，奇怪！這麼多年來植被都生長得很好，也看不出來任何的問題，我覺得有點莫名其妙；過去沒有崩塌，這也莫名其妙，不管是小規模落石，民眾反映這邊4月就開始圍起來了，而且如果沒有問題，你們會做這麼大面積的工程嗎？所以陳局長或次長，部長過去學水利的，我們很多人擔心他的交通專業到底夠不夠，但其實我們這是一個團隊，團隊做得起來就OK，團隊如果不說實話，坦白講，這莫名其妙嘛！過去沒有崩塌？去年9月你們都補到這麼多了，你們也花了不少錢嘛！我們也肯定你，有問題的時候你們有去補，所以這個照片一出來顯示，第一，你們當時有去修補、有去預防，可是部長第一時間講這個，我覺得很奇怪，你們自己想想看他到底是哪裡拿到的錯誤訊息。第二，你們分級有制度，但是其實一般邏輯上面大家不解的是，你們都是分A、B、C、D級，按理說狀況應該是順順的上去或順順的下來，但是有時候天威難測，有時是D級，看起來很安全的，噹一個就下來了。所以你從安全的直接跳到A級，我覺得這是沒辦法預測的；可是如果你要從A級馬上再跳回來C、D級，我覺得很奇怪，這是去年4月的相片，看起來好像植被還不錯，但是事實上那時候還是D級，就是最安全的、完全無狀況。但到了6月，你們開始準備修補了，你們就直接跳成A級，我覺得這合理，因為出事了嘛！原本安定的、穩定的塌下來變不安定了，我覺得這可以接受。可是當你修補這塊之後，你也沒有把它列在B級，直接跳到C級，請次長講一下是什麼道理？"],["陳次長彥伯：首先，部長到現場的時候，剛才陳局長也特別講到因為以往是有零星的邊波滑動或落石，大面積的崩塌是沒有。"],["魯委員明哲：大面積的修補是有嘛！"],["陳次長彥伯：修補我等下再講，他想表達的大概是植被的完整。"],["魯委員明哲：我就問你A級變C級。"],["陳次長彥伯：因為落石有一些滑落，依照我們分級的等級，因為有災害事件，所以升級為A級，要關注它、來做一些處理，就同仁給我的資料，只有150平方，後來因為我們認為安全控管要大一點，所以我們把面積做大到1,500平方……"],["魯委員明哲：為什麼不變成B級？我的問題就這樣，A級最危險，你剛剛已經回答委員了，通常修好以後會觀察一段時間，合不合理？合理。我告訴你，這個工程112年9月21日報竣工，你們什麼時候把它變成C級？10月份！牛頭對不到馬尾，莫名其妙，你知道嗎？第二，你們所謂B級災害的定義，2年內曾經發生災害，我的天啊！C級是5年內沒有災害，它明明就符合才剛修完，我觀察個1至2年，如果都沒有問題，它就符合你B級的定義，我的意思是希望你們未來像這樣有危險的地方，你們已經做修補了，A級應該先降到B級，按照你們的規定，觀察2年，它曾經有落石，你們也修補了，觀察2年沒有狀況才要調，而不是觀察不到1個月，9月21日報竣工，10月份就調到C級，你們可不可以回去檢討一下這種調整的方式，可以嗎？"],["陳次長彥伯：委員的意見我們會責請公路局檢討。"],["魯委員明哲：公路局在你旁邊。"],["陳次長彥伯：沒問題，我們會處理，就我的了解，原則上降級還是有經過一定的內部評鑑或檢討以後才降級。"],["魯委員明哲：這就跟次長講的不一樣，9月21日完工，觀察一段時間，好，你們回去檢討一下。"],["陳次長彥伯：我們會去檢討。"],["魯委員明哲：我最後一個小問題再請教林信得主委。"],["主席：請林主委。"],["林主任委員信得：委員好。"],["魯委員明哲：說真的，國家運安研究中心你心中到底想不想做？之前洪孟楷委員有問過你，你的意思是說跟很多大學、研究中心合作，可以取代類似的功能，現在到底是不是這樣？我跟你講，我們從上一屆開始就跟你之前的主委為這件事情討論、辯論預算要怎麼編，講得真的是讓我們太感動了，非要不行，不然國家運安可能會毀掉，結果現在怎麼輕輕鬆鬆的、好像都沒有事情，現在到底做不做？行政院當時暫停的原因是原本的規劃沒有把電動車納入，我也覺得一定要納入，因為這是未來的趨勢。另外一個是太空的檢驗，我的天啊！這也要納入，現在納入的情況如何？可以做到嗎？"],["林主任委員信得：我們那棟大樓裡面有消防署，它有3個樓層，它在107年的時候要搬遷，騰出來的空間我們有作規劃，剛好可以容納我們做運輸研究中心的一些設備可以慢慢進來。"],["魯委員明哲：太空的部分也可以容納進去嘛！"],["林主任委員信得：應該可以。"],["魯委員明哲：應該可以？"],["林主任委員信得：因為我們如果要到宜蘭做太空中心的話……"],["魯委員明哲：它現在是6、7、8三層樓嗎？"],["林主任委員信得：對。"],["魯委員明哲：總樓地板面積多少？"],["林主任委員信得：我倒是沒有算，不過面積很大，比我們要到宜蘭做運輸研究中心還大。"],["魯委員明哲：那是6,000坪的基地。"],["林主任委員信得：對啊。"],["魯委員明哲：我發覺林主委對這件事情和前任主委、前前任主委是完全不太同的方向，你們當時有編5.72億元的設備經費，設備有什麼變化嗎？"],["林主任委員信得：我們當時……"],["魯委員明哲：你要檢查電動車，設備需要增加；又要太空，設備不用增加嗎？你們現在到底有沒有規劃？設備經費5.7億元是多還是少？夠不夠？"],["林主任委員信得：當時規劃的設備是漸進式的，原來在宜蘭的工程中心，當時那個空間是要作為運具的殘骸展覽等等，第一個原因是因為當地的縣政府或居民認為發生事故的殘骸放在這裡，覺得心裡毛毛的不舒服。第二個，我們那個地方本來要做一個研究中心，長官也說這個……"],["魯委員明哲：現在殘骸要放在哪裡？所以未來殘骸要搭電梯上去到6、7、8樓嗎？就是那個空地放殘骸民眾有意見，你這些殘骸要用6、7、8樓取代這個功能？好啦！時間到了，我要拜託你，國家運安工程是不是要興建一個大樓？還是你要用什麼現有的樓層去取代，我希望你要有詳細的規劃和計畫；我們希望，就算你不要A案，變B案，我下次問你的時候，B案要有哪些設備、要多少經費，你要完全知道，你不能只告訴我不要這個、不要那個，即你們要什麼，下次你們對於6、7、8樓的運用要有完整的計畫。另外，進不去大樓的，你們要選擇什麼場址，例如比較大的殘骸要放哪裡，你不可能坐電梯上去嘛！還用吊車吊上去，當地民眾會不會抱怨呢？最後，我拜託你們要精確的規劃，上次這個規劃你們用掉多少錢？現在不做了，你們用掉了多少錢？"],["林主任委員信得：大概100來萬作規劃，後來就因為要等消防署……"],["魯委員明哲：你們109年的總預算歲出報告是已執行836萬元，對不對？然後有些是租金，實際用在預先規劃設計的到底多少錢？"],["林主任委員信得：大概400萬元。"],["魯委員明哲：100萬元變400萬元？"],["林主任委員信得：因為這個……"],["魯委員明哲：這樣好了，你給交通委員會一個報告。"],["林主任委員信得：會後給您一個書面報告。"],["魯委員明哲：第二個，你要很清楚的先期規劃，先期取得行政院的支持，你不要現在告訴我們6、7、8三層樓消防署、空軍救護隊離開了就是你們的，萬一到時候繞了半天又不是你們的，整個規劃真的很離譜啦。"],["林主任委員信得：我們已經跟國發會協調好了。"],["魯委員明哲：我覺得你要先讓行政院同意，謝謝。"],["林主任委員信得：是，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝魯明哲委員。","現在請邱若華委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":436,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-15","speakers":["陳雪生","林沛祥","林國成","李昆澤","陳素月","林俊憲","黃健豪","徐富癸","蔡其昌","何欣純","許智傑","游顥","廖先翔","魯明哲","邱若華","王鴻薇","鄭天財Sra 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\"start\": 743.87, \"end\": 744.01, \"score\": 0.737}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 744.01, \"end\": 744.15, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 744.15, \"end\": 744.29, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"支\", \"start\": 744.29, \"end\": 744.47, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 744.47, \"end\": 744.63, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 744.63, \"end\": 745.15, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 745.15, \"end\": 745.311, \"score\": 0.756}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 745.311, \"end\": 745.411, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 745.411, \"end\": 745.751, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 745.751, \"end\": 745.931, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 745.931, \"end\": 746.191, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"訴\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 746.191, \"end\": 747.351, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", 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\"離\"}, {\"word\": \"譜\"}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 757.159, \"end\": 758.083, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 758.083, \"end\": 758.224, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 758.224, \"end\": 758.364, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 758.364, \"end\": 758.806, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 758.806, \"end\": 759.167, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 759.167, \"end\": 759.288, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 759.288, \"end\": 759.388, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 759.388, \"end\": 759.549, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 759.549, \"end\": 759.709, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 759.709, \"end\": 759.83, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 759.83, \"end\": 759.95, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 759.95, \"end\": 760.171, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 760.171, \"end\": 760.352, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 760.352, \"end\": 760.372, \"score\": 0.577}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,321 --> 00:00:13,733\n好謝謝主席有請我們交通部陳次長跟公務總局的陳局長陳局長來公務局陳局長\n\n2\n00:00:19,597 --> 00:00:36,497\n委員好誒說真的啦這個兩位都是這個從公路總局到公路局齁這個也是我們前局長現任的局長你們對於這個案子應該都非常熟啊尤其公路總局邊坡的一個分類啊我看是從之前的時代一路到現在\n\n3\n00:00:37,378 --> 00:00:53,956\n我先請教一下那一天6月4日在基隆草津公園入口處這樣的一個崩塌或者走山的一個過程我看第二天我們李部長李孟雲部長就很積極我看到好像是陳局長陪他去的\n\n4\n00:00:56,318 --> 00:01:19,712\n他那天對媒體講的第一段話我是有點嚇到是誰給他這些資料的他這樣子說這次基隆發生崩塌的地點邊坡外觀表面正常直坯生長情況也良好再來他說了過去一無發生崩塌的現象陳局長這是你跟部長說的嗎\n\n5\n00:01:21,431 --> 00:01:22,292\n所以表面看起來職務很好嗎?\n\n6\n00:01:48,646 --> 00:01:51,111\n因為我重複看了一下現場民眾提供的圖片因為我業障多\n\n7\n00:02:00,734 --> 00:02:19,861\n哇右邊這是1、2年9月去年9月這次還沒有大崩塌之前也就是說我們部長在形容的右邊這個水泥你們整個大面積整修完的這個結果然後這面積多大啊邊坡噴泥土的一個掛網啊這麼大\n\n8\n00:02:22,304 --> 00:02:48,593\n然後部長當然他去的時候是已經崩下來了可是你這樣子跟當地的民眾說奇怪這麼多年來這個植物都生長得很好也看不出來任何的問題我覺得有點莫名其妙過去沒有崩塌這也莫名其妙當然不管是小規模落實民眾反應你們這邊早就圍四月就開始把它圍起來了嘛\n\n9\n00:02:49,133 --> 00:03:13,471\n而且如果沒有問題你們會做這麼大的面積的工程嗎所以陳局長還是次長這個不能給部長喔部長過去選水利的我們很多人是擔心他到底交通的一個專業夠不夠但後面我們覺得其實這是一個團隊團隊做得起來就OK但是你團隊若不說實話坦白講你說這莫名其妙嘛\n\n10\n00:03:14,301 --> 00:03:18,764\n所以這個照片出來第一個你們當時有去修補有去預防可是在部長的第一時間講這個我又覺得很奇怪你們自己想想看他到底哪裡拿到錯誤訊息第二個\n\n11\n00:03:38,237 --> 00:04:06,206\n你們分級有制度但是其實對一般邏輯上面大家不解的是什麼你們因為都是A、B、C、D按理說它的狀況應是順順的上去或順順的下來但是有時候天威難測大自然有時候它是D看起來很安全的一個就下來所以你從安全的直接跳到A級我覺得這是沒辦法預測的\n\n12\n00:04:07,466 --> 00:04:31,714\n可是如果你要從A級馬上再跳回來CD級我就覺得很奇怪你知道嗎你這樣子去年4月4月份這是4月份的相片看起來好像實在還不錯但是那時候4月份事實上你們還是第一期就最安全的完全無狀況但到了6月份\n\n13\n00:04:33,345 --> 00:04:56,415\n你們開始準備修補了你們就直接跳成A級我覺得這合理嘛因為出事了嘛原本安定的穩定的這個他現在變不安定了嘛我覺得這可以接受可是當你去修補之後修補這一塊之後你馬上也沒有把它列在B級直接跳到C級次長講一下是什麼道理\n\n14\n00:04:58,275 --> 00:05:15,896\n我跟委員報告一下首先這個也是稍微回應一下就是說部長到現場的時候剛才陳局長特別講到因為以往是有林信的像這種邊坡的滑動或落石那真的大面積的一個崩塌是沒有所以他大概是這樣\n\n15\n00:05:16,357 --> 00:05:16,377\n〔記者訪問〕\n\n16\n00:05:47,017 --> 00:05:48,058\n我告訴你這工程9月21日完工\n\n17\n00:06:17,138 --> 00:06:34,532\n112年9月21日報竣工你們什麼時候把他變成C級的十月份牛頭對不了馬尾這是莫名其妙你知道嗎你剛剛回答我也覺得啊那第二個你們所謂B級的災害的定義兩年內曾經發生災害\n\n18\n00:06:39,142 --> 00:07:02,292\n然後C級是五年內曾有災害他明明就符合說才剛修完我觀察個一年到兩年如果都沒有問題他就符合你B級的定義我這樣講的意思說希望你們未來像這樣的有危險的一個地方你明明做修補了A級他應該先降到B級按照你們的規定觀察兩年\n\n19\n00:07:03,112 --> 00:07:25,651\n他曾經有落實嘛吼你被修補了但觀察兩年附近沒有在狀況才要調而不是觀察不到一個月9月21號報竣工然後10月份就把他調到C級我覺得你們可不可以回去檢討一下這種調的方式可以嗎我想委員的意見我們則請公務局再去檢討一下公務局在你旁邊啊\n\n20\n00:07:26,892 --> 00:07:49,822\n沒問題,我們會去做處理。原則上這種降級,我的了解,它還是有經過一定的一個內部的一個評鑑或檢討以後才降級的啦。不是,不是這樣的一個機制。那就跟你市長講的就不一樣嘛。9月21號換工,觀察一段時間。好,你們會去檢討一下。我們會去檢討,我們會去檢討。我最後一個小問題再問一下我們的林信得那個主委。抱歉,抱歉,再過兩分鐘時間,謝謝。\n\n21\n00:07:55,556 --> 00:08:19,151\n這個國家運安研究中心說真的啦你心中是到底想不想做啊因為之前我們洪現在這個洪孟楷委員之前有問過你啦你的意思就是說其實很多跟大學合作啦研究中心合作啦也可以取代類似的功能現在到底是不是這樣啦因為我跟你講喔我們從上屆開始跟你之前的主委為這個事情討論辯論預算為什麼要怎麼編\n\n22\n00:08:22,501 --> 00:08:49,179\n講得真的是讓我們太感動了非要不行不然這國家這個運安可能會毀掉就現在怎麼輕輕鬆鬆的好像都沒有事情啊現在到底做不做那現在行政院當時跟你叫暫停的原因是說你原本的規劃沒有把電動車納入我也覺得一定要納入因為這是未來的趨勢那另外一個太空太空的一個檢驗我的天啊也要納入那現在納入情況如何可以做到嗎\n\n23\n00:08:51,179 --> 00:09:08,801\n我們是這樣子啦,我們那棟大樓裡面有消防署,他有三個層樓,那麼他在107年的時候他要搬遷,他談出來的空間,我們有做規劃,剛好可以容納我們要做醫術研究中心的一些設備,可以慢慢進來。\n\n24\n00:09:09,682 --> 00:09:21,416\n剛好,太空也可以農蠟進去吧?應該可以因為我們如果要到宜蘭去做太空運送訓練你們三層樓,你現在他6、7、8是不是三層樓總面積多少?樓底板面積多少?\n\n25\n00:09:23,803 --> 00:09:24,964\n五點七二一的是設備那這個設備\n\n26\n00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,041\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n\n27\n00:10:06,424 --> 00:10:21,738\n當時的規劃的設備是建築式的。那麼原來在宜蘭的那個工程中心,當時那個space說要做那個運去的長海、展覽等等。那第一個原因是因為當地的\n\n28\n00:10:22,959 --> 00:10:26,542\n你現在殘骸要放在哪裡?你不要擴大問題喔。所以殘骸未來要搭電梯上去到678樓嗎?你在說什麼?\n\n29\n00:10:45,516 --> 00:11:01,390\n就是那個空地放殘骸民眾有意見那整棟大樓你說這些殘骸是你要用678樓取代這個功能好啦我就時間到了我要拜託你這個國家運安工程是不是要新建一個大樓還是你要用什麼樣的線路的樓層去\n\n30\n00:11:03,291 --> 00:11:03,711\n委員會主任委員會主任\n\n31\n00:11:25,326 --> 00:11:40,933\n進不去大樓的你們要選擇什麼場子比如說大的殘骸你要放哪裡你不可能坐電梯上去嘛還用吊車吊上去當地民眾會不會會被那個complain呢最後拜託你們要精確的規劃因為上次這個規劃你們用掉了多少萬現在不做了你們用掉了多少錢啊\n\n32\n00:11:46,463 --> 00:12:02,881\n大概一百來萬做規劃後來就就因為要等交你們109年的總預算的一個稅數報告是匡列800以執行836萬喔對不對然後有些是租金那實際實際用在規劃設計預先的到底是多少錢\n\n33\n00:12:07,403 --> 00:12:34,554\n大概...董委員告訴我大概四百萬啦一百萬變四百萬因為...因為這個就是...那你好啦這樣好不好你給交通委員一個報告啦我...我是不是會給你一個書面報告第二個齁你要很清楚的先期規劃第二個先期取得行政院的支持啦你不要現在告訴我們678三層樓消防署他的什麼空軍救總他離開了就是你們的萬一到最後落了半天又不是你們的整個規劃真的...\n\n34\n00:12:36,115 --> 00:12:40,372\n真的真的很離譜啦好不好我覺得你要行政院先同意謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7321\t13733\t好謝謝主席有請我們交通部陳次長跟公務總局的陳局長陳局長來公務局陳局長\n19597\t36497\t委員好 誒說真的啦 這個兩位都是 這個從公路總局到公路局齁 這個也是我們前局長 現任的局長 你們對於這個案子應該都非常熟啊 尤其公路總局邊坡的一個分類啊 我看是從之前的時代一路到現在\n37378\t53956\t我先請教一下那一天6月4日在基隆草津公園入口處這樣的一個崩塌或者走山的一個過程我看第二天我們李部長李孟雲部長就很積極我看到好像是陳局長陪他去的\n56318\t79712\t他那天對媒體講的第一段話我是有點嚇到是誰給他這些資料的他這樣子說這次基隆發生崩塌的地點邊坡外觀表面正常直坯生長情況也良好再來他說了過去一無發生崩塌的現象陳局長這是你跟部長說的嗎\n81431\t82292\t所以表面看起來職務很好嗎?\n108646\t111111\t因為我重複看了一下現場民眾提供的圖片因為我業障多\n120734\t139861\t哇 右邊這是1、2年9月 去年9月 這次還沒有大崩塌之前 也就是說我們部長在形容的右邊這個水泥 你們整個大面積整修完的這個結果 然後這面積多大啊 邊坡噴泥土的一個掛網 啊這麼大\n142304\t168593\t然後部長當然他去的時候是已經崩下來了可是你這樣子跟當地的民眾說奇怪這麼多年來這個植物都生長得很好也看不出來任何的問題我覺得有點莫名其妙過去沒有崩塌這也莫名其妙當然不管是小規模落實民眾反應你們這邊早就圍四月就開始把它圍起來了嘛\n169133\t193471\t而且如果沒有問題你們會做這麼大的面積的工程嗎所以陳局長還是次長這個不能給部長喔部長過去選水利的我們很多人是擔心他到底交通的一個專業夠不夠但後面我們覺得其實這是一個團隊團隊做得起來就OK但是你團隊若不說實話坦白講你說這莫名其妙嘛\n194301\t198764\t所以這個照片出來第一個你們當時有去修補有去預防可是在部長的第一時間講這個我又覺得很奇怪你們自己想想看他到底哪裡拿到錯誤訊息第二個\n218237\t246206\t你們分級有制度但是其實對一般邏輯上面大家不解的是什麼你們因為都是A、B、C、D按理說它的狀況應是順順的上去或順順的下來但是有時候天威難測大自然有時候它是D看起來很安全的一個就下來所以你從安全的直接跳到A級我覺得這是沒辦法預測的\n247466\t271714\t可是如果你要從A級馬上再跳回來CD級我就覺得很奇怪你知道嗎你這樣子去年4月4月份這是4月份的相片看起來好像實在還不錯但是那時候4月份事實上你們還是第一期就最安全的完全無狀況但到了6月份\n273345\t296415\t你們開始準備修補了你們就直接跳成A級我覺得這合理嘛因為出事了嘛原本安定的穩定的這個他現在變不安定了嘛我覺得這可以接受可是當你去修補之後修補這一塊之後你馬上也沒有把它列在B級直接跳到C級次長講一下是什麼道理\n298275\t315896\t我跟委員報告一下首先這個也是稍微回應一下就是說部長到現場的時候剛才陳局長特別講到因為以往是有林信的像這種邊坡的滑動或落石那真的大面積的一個崩塌是沒有所以他大概是這樣\n316357\t316377\t〔記者訪問〕\n347017\t348058\t我告訴你這工程9月21日完工\n377138\t394532\t112年9月21日報竣工你們什麼時候把他變成C級的十月份牛頭對不了馬尾這是莫名其妙你知道嗎你剛剛回答我也覺得啊那第二個你們所謂B級的災害的定義兩年內曾經發生災害\n399142\t422292\t然後C級是五年內曾有災害他明明就符合說才剛修完我觀察個一年到兩年如果都沒有問題他就符合你B級的定義我這樣講的意思說希望你們未來像這樣的有危險的一個地方你明明做修補了A級他應該先降到B級按照你們的規定觀察兩年\n423112\t445651\t他曾經有落實嘛吼你被修補了但觀察兩年附近沒有在狀況才要調而不是觀察不到一個月9月21號報竣工然後10月份就把他調到C級我覺得你們可不可以回去檢討一下這種調的方式可以嗎我想委員的意見我們則請公務局再去檢討一下公務局在你旁邊啊\n446892\t469822\t沒問題,我們會去做處理。原則上這種降級,我的了解,它還是有經過一定的一個內部的一個評鑑或檢討以後才降級的啦。不是,不是這樣的一個機制。那就跟你市長講的就不一樣嘛。9月21號換工,觀察一段時間。好,你們會去檢討一下。我們會去檢討,我們會去檢討。我最後一個小問題再問一下我們的林信得那個主委。抱歉,抱歉,再過兩分鐘時間,謝謝。\n475556\t499151\t這個國家運安研究中心說真的啦你心中是到底想不想做啊因為之前我們洪現在這個洪孟楷委員之前有問過你啦你的意思就是說其實很多跟大學合作啦研究中心合作啦也可以取代類似的功能現在到底是不是這樣啦因為我跟你講喔我們從上屆開始跟你之前的主委為這個事情討論辯論預算為什麼要怎麼編\n502501\t529179\t講得真的是讓我們太感動了非要不行不然這國家這個運安可能會毀掉就現在怎麼輕輕鬆鬆的好像都沒有事情啊現在到底做不做那現在行政院當時跟你叫暫停的原因是說你原本的規劃沒有把電動車納入我也覺得一定要納入因為這是未來的趨勢那另外一個太空太空的一個檢驗我的天啊也要納入那現在納入情況如何可以做到嗎\n531179\t548801\t我們是這樣子啦,我們那棟大樓裡面有消防署,他有三個層樓,那麼他在107年的時候他要搬遷,他談出來的空間,我們有做規劃,剛好可以容納我們要做醫術研究中心的一些設備,可以慢慢進來。\n549682\t561416\t剛好,太空也可以農蠟進去吧?應該可以因為我們如果要到宜蘭去做太空運送訓練你們三層樓,你現在他6、7、8是不是三層樓總面積多少?樓底板面積多少?\n563803\t564964\t五點七二一的是設備那這個設備\n589480\t591041\t委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n606424\t621738\t當時的規劃的設備是建築式的。那麼原來在宜蘭的那個工程中心,當時那個space說要做那個運去的長海、展覽等等。那第一個原因是因為當地的\n622959\t626542\t你現在殘骸要放在哪裡?你不要擴大問題喔。所以殘骸未來要搭電梯上去到678樓嗎?你在說什麼?\n645516\t661390\t就是那個空地放殘骸民眾有意見那整棟大樓你說這些殘骸是你要用678樓取代這個功能好啦我就時間到了我要拜託你這個國家運安工程是不是要新建一個大樓還是你要用什麼樣的線路的樓層去\n663291\t663711\t委員會主任委員會主任\n685326\t700933\t進不去大樓的你們要選擇什麼場子比如說大的殘骸你要放哪裡你不可能坐電梯上去嘛還用吊車吊上去當地民眾會不會會被那個complain呢最後拜託你們要精確的規劃因為上次這個規劃你們用掉了多少萬現在不做了你們用掉了多少錢啊\n706463\t722881\t大概一百來萬做規劃後來就就因為要等交你們109年的總預算的一個稅數報告是匡列800以執行836萬喔對不對然後有些是租金那實際實際用在規劃設計預先的到底是多少錢\n727403\t754554\t大概...董委員告訴我大概四百萬啦一百萬變四百萬因為...因為這個就是...那你好啦這樣好不好你給交通委員一個報告啦我...我是不是會給你一個書面報告第二個齁你要很清楚的先期規劃第二個先期取得行政院的支持啦你不要現在告訴我們678三層樓消防署他的什麼空軍救總他離開了就是你們的萬一到最後落了半天又不是你們的整個規劃真的...\n756115\t760372\t真的真的很離譜啦好不好我覺得你要行政院先同意謝謝\n","txt":"好謝謝主席有請我們交通部陳次長跟公務總局的陳局長陳局長來公務局陳局長\n委員好 誒說真的啦 這個兩位都是 這個從公路總局到公路局齁 這個也是我們前局長 現任的局長 你們對於這個案子應該都非常熟啊 尤其公路總局邊坡的一個分類啊 我看是從之前的時代一路到現在\n我先請教一下那一天6月4日在基隆草津公園入口處這樣的一個崩塌或者走山的一個過程我看第二天我們李部長李孟雲部長就很積極我看到好像是陳局長陪他去的\n他那天對媒體講的第一段話我是有點嚇到是誰給他這些資料的他這樣子說這次基隆發生崩塌的地點邊坡外觀表面正常直坯生長情況也良好再來他說了過去一無發生崩塌的現象陳局長這是你跟部長說的嗎\n所以表面看起來職務很好嗎?\n因為我重複看了一下現場民眾提供的圖片因為我業障多\n哇 右邊這是1、2年9月 去年9月 這次還沒有大崩塌之前 也就是說我們部長在形容的右邊這個水泥 你們整個大面積整修完的這個結果 然後這面積多大啊 邊坡噴泥土的一個掛網 啊這麼大\n然後部長當然他去的時候是已經崩下來了可是你這樣子跟當地的民眾說奇怪這麼多年來這個植物都生長得很好也看不出來任何的問題我覺得有點莫名其妙過去沒有崩塌這也莫名其妙當然不管是小規模落實民眾反應你們這邊早就圍四月就開始把它圍起來了嘛\n而且如果沒有問題你們會做這麼大的面積的工程嗎所以陳局長還是次長這個不能給部長喔部長過去選水利的我們很多人是擔心他到底交通的一個專業夠不夠但後面我們覺得其實這是一個團隊團隊做得起來就OK但是你團隊若不說實話坦白講你說這莫名其妙嘛\n所以這個照片出來第一個你們當時有去修補有去預防可是在部長的第一時間講這個我又覺得很奇怪你們自己想想看他到底哪裡拿到錯誤訊息第二個\n你們分級有制度但是其實對一般邏輯上面大家不解的是什麼你們因為都是A、B、C、D按理說它的狀況應是順順的上去或順順的下來但是有時候天威難測大自然有時候它是D看起來很安全的一個就下來所以你從安全的直接跳到A級我覺得這是沒辦法預測的\n可是如果你要從A級馬上再跳回來CD級我就覺得很奇怪你知道嗎你這樣子去年4月4月份這是4月份的相片看起來好像實在還不錯但是那時候4月份事實上你們還是第一期就最安全的完全無狀況但到了6月份\n你們開始準備修補了你們就直接跳成A級我覺得這合理嘛因為出事了嘛原本安定的穩定的這個他現在變不安定了嘛我覺得這可以接受可是當你去修補之後修補這一塊之後你馬上也沒有把它列在B級直接跳到C級次長講一下是什麼道理\n我跟委員報告一下首先這個也是稍微回應一下就是說部長到現場的時候剛才陳局長特別講到因為以往是有林信的像這種邊坡的滑動或落石那真的大面積的一個崩塌是沒有所以他大概是這樣\n〔記者訪問〕\n我告訴你這工程9月21日完工\n112年9月21日報竣工你們什麼時候把他變成C級的十月份牛頭對不了馬尾這是莫名其妙你知道嗎你剛剛回答我也覺得啊那第二個你們所謂B級的災害的定義兩年內曾經發生災害\n然後C級是五年內曾有災害他明明就符合說才剛修完我觀察個一年到兩年如果都沒有問題他就符合你B級的定義我這樣講的意思說希望你們未來像這樣的有危險的一個地方你明明做修補了A級他應該先降到B級按照你們的規定觀察兩年\n他曾經有落實嘛吼你被修補了但觀察兩年附近沒有在狀況才要調而不是觀察不到一個月9月21號報竣工然後10月份就把他調到C級我覺得你們可不可以回去檢討一下這種調的方式可以嗎我想委員的意見我們則請公務局再去檢討一下公務局在你旁邊啊\n沒問題,我們會去做處理。原則上這種降級,我的了解,它還是有經過一定的一個內部的一個評鑑或檢討以後才降級的啦。不是,不是這樣的一個機制。那就跟你市長講的就不一樣嘛。9月21號換工,觀察一段時間。好,你們會去檢討一下。我們會去檢討,我們會去檢討。我最後一個小問題再問一下我們的林信得那個主委。抱歉,抱歉,再過兩分鐘時間,謝謝。\n這個國家運安研究中心說真的啦你心中是到底想不想做啊因為之前我們洪現在這個洪孟楷委員之前有問過你啦你的意思就是說其實很多跟大學合作啦研究中心合作啦也可以取代類似的功能現在到底是不是這樣啦因為我跟你講喔我們從上屆開始跟你之前的主委為這個事情討論辯論預算為什麼要怎麼編\n講得真的是讓我們太感動了非要不行不然這國家這個運安可能會毀掉就現在怎麼輕輕鬆鬆的好像都沒有事情啊現在到底做不做那現在行政院當時跟你叫暫停的原因是說你原本的規劃沒有把電動車納入我也覺得一定要納入因為這是未來的趨勢那另外一個太空太空的一個檢驗我的天啊也要納入那現在納入情況如何可以做到嗎\n我們是這樣子啦,我們那棟大樓裡面有消防署,他有三個層樓,那麼他在107年的時候他要搬遷,他談出來的空間,我們有做規劃,剛好可以容納我們要做醫術研究中心的一些設備,可以慢慢進來。\n剛好,太空也可以農蠟進去吧?應該可以因為我們如果要到宜蘭去做太空運送訓練你們三層樓,你現在他6、7、8是不是三層樓總面積多少?樓底板面積多少?\n五點七二一的是設備那這個設備\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n當時的規劃的設備是建築式的。那麼原來在宜蘭的那個工程中心,當時那個space說要做那個運去的長海、展覽等等。那第一個原因是因為當地的\n你現在殘骸要放在哪裡?你不要擴大問題喔。所以殘骸未來要搭電梯上去到678樓嗎?你在說什麼?\n就是那個空地放殘骸民眾有意見那整棟大樓你說這些殘骸是你要用678樓取代這個功能好啦我就時間到了我要拜託你這個國家運安工程是不是要新建一個大樓還是你要用什麼樣的線路的樓層去\n委員會主任委員會主任\n進不去大樓的你們要選擇什麼場子比如說大的殘骸你要放哪裡你不可能坐電梯上去嘛還用吊車吊上去當地民眾會不會會被那個complain呢最後拜託你們要精確的規劃因為上次這個規劃你們用掉了多少萬現在不做了你們用掉了多少錢啊\n大概一百來萬做規劃後來就就因為要等交你們109年的總預算的一個稅數報告是匡列800以執行836萬喔對不對然後有些是租金那實際實際用在規劃設計預先的到底是多少錢\n大概...董委員告訴我大概四百萬啦一百萬變四百萬因為...因為這個就是...那你好啦這樣好不好你給交通委員一個報告啦我...我是不是會給你一個書面報告第二個齁你要很清楚的先期規劃第二個先期取得行政院的支持啦你不要現在告訴我們678三層樓消防署他的什麼空軍救總他離開了就是你們的萬一到最後落了半天又不是你們的整個規劃真的...\n真的真的很離譜啦好不好我覺得你要行政院先同意謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.321 --> 00:13.733\n好謝謝主席有請我們交通部陳次長跟公務總局的陳局長陳局長來公務局陳局長\n\n00:19.597 --> 00:36.497\n委員好誒說真的啦這個兩位都是這個從公路總局到公路局齁這個也是我們前局長現任的局長你們對於這個案子應該都非常熟啊尤其公路總局邊坡的一個分類啊我看是從之前的時代一路到現在\n\n00:37.378 --> 00:53.956\n我先請教一下那一天6月4日在基隆草津公園入口處這樣的一個崩塌或者走山的一個過程我看第二天我們李部長李孟雲部長就很積極我看到好像是陳局長陪他去的\n\n00:56.318 --> 01:19.712\n他那天對媒體講的第一段話我是有點嚇到是誰給他這些資料的他這樣子說這次基隆發生崩塌的地點邊坡外觀表面正常直坯生長情況也良好再來他說了過去一無發生崩塌的現象陳局長這是你跟部長說的嗎\n\n01:21.431 --> 01:22.292\n所以表面看起來職務很好嗎?\n\n01:48.646 --> 01:51.111\n因為我重複看了一下現場民眾提供的圖片因為我業障多\n\n02:00.734 --> 02:19.861\n哇右邊這是1、2年9月去年9月這次還沒有大崩塌之前也就是說我們部長在形容的右邊這個水泥你們整個大面積整修完的這個結果然後這面積多大啊邊坡噴泥土的一個掛網啊這麼大\n\n02:22.304 --> 02:48.593\n然後部長當然他去的時候是已經崩下來了可是你這樣子跟當地的民眾說奇怪這麼多年來這個植物都生長得很好也看不出來任何的問題我覺得有點莫名其妙過去沒有崩塌這也莫名其妙當然不管是小規模落實民眾反應你們這邊早就圍四月就開始把它圍起來了嘛\n\n02:49.133 --> 03:13.471\n而且如果沒有問題你們會做這麼大的面積的工程嗎所以陳局長還是次長這個不能給部長喔部長過去選水利的我們很多人是擔心他到底交通的一個專業夠不夠但後面我們覺得其實這是一個團隊團隊做得起來就OK但是你團隊若不說實話坦白講你說這莫名其妙嘛\n\n03:14.301 --> 03:18.764\n所以這個照片出來第一個你們當時有去修補有去預防可是在部長的第一時間講這個我又覺得很奇怪你們自己想想看他到底哪裡拿到錯誤訊息第二個\n\n03:38.237 --> 04:06.206\n你們分級有制度但是其實對一般邏輯上面大家不解的是什麼你們因為都是A、B、C、D按理說它的狀況應是順順的上去或順順的下來但是有時候天威難測大自然有時候它是D看起來很安全的一個就下來所以你從安全的直接跳到A級我覺得這是沒辦法預測的\n\n04:07.466 --> 04:31.714\n可是如果你要從A級馬上再跳回來CD級我就覺得很奇怪你知道嗎你這樣子去年4月4月份這是4月份的相片看起來好像實在還不錯但是那時候4月份事實上你們還是第一期就最安全的完全無狀況但到了6月份\n\n04:33.345 --> 04:56.415\n你們開始準備修補了你們就直接跳成A級我覺得這合理嘛因為出事了嘛原本安定的穩定的這個他現在變不安定了嘛我覺得這可以接受可是當你去修補之後修補這一塊之後你馬上也沒有把它列在B級直接跳到C級次長講一下是什麼道理\n\n04:58.275 --> 05:15.896\n我跟委員報告一下首先這個也是稍微回應一下就是說部長到現場的時候剛才陳局長特別講到因為以往是有林信的像這種邊坡的滑動或落石那真的大面積的一個崩塌是沒有所以他大概是這樣\n\n05:16.357 --> 05:16.377\n〔記者訪問〕\n\n05:47.017 --> 05:48.058\n我告訴你這工程9月21日完工\n\n06:17.138 --> 06:34.532\n112年9月21日報竣工你們什麼時候把他變成C級的十月份牛頭對不了馬尾這是莫名其妙你知道嗎你剛剛回答我也覺得啊那第二個你們所謂B級的災害的定義兩年內曾經發生災害\n\n06:39.142 --> 07:02.292\n然後C級是五年內曾有災害他明明就符合說才剛修完我觀察個一年到兩年如果都沒有問題他就符合你B級的定義我這樣講的意思說希望你們未來像這樣的有危險的一個地方你明明做修補了A級他應該先降到B級按照你們的規定觀察兩年\n\n07:03.112 --> 07:25.651\n他曾經有落實嘛吼你被修補了但觀察兩年附近沒有在狀況才要調而不是觀察不到一個月9月21號報竣工然後10月份就把他調到C級我覺得你們可不可以回去檢討一下這種調的方式可以嗎我想委員的意見我們則請公務局再去檢討一下公務局在你旁邊啊\n\n07:26.892 --> 07:49.822\n沒問題,我們會去做處理。原則上這種降級,我的了解,它還是有經過一定的一個內部的一個評鑑或檢討以後才降級的啦。不是,不是這樣的一個機制。那就跟你市長講的就不一樣嘛。9月21號換工,觀察一段時間。好,你們會去檢討一下。我們會去檢討,我們會去檢討。我最後一個小問題再問一下我們的林信得那個主委。抱歉,抱歉,再過兩分鐘時間,謝謝。\n\n07:55.556 --> 08:19.151\n這個國家運安研究中心說真的啦你心中是到底想不想做啊因為之前我們洪現在這個洪孟楷委員之前有問過你啦你的意思就是說其實很多跟大學合作啦研究中心合作啦也可以取代類似的功能現在到底是不是這樣啦因為我跟你講喔我們從上屆開始跟你之前的主委為這個事情討論辯論預算為什麼要怎麼編\n\n08:22.501 --> 08:49.179\n講得真的是讓我們太感動了非要不行不然這國家這個運安可能會毀掉就現在怎麼輕輕鬆鬆的好像都沒有事情啊現在到底做不做那現在行政院當時跟你叫暫停的原因是說你原本的規劃沒有把電動車納入我也覺得一定要納入因為這是未來的趨勢那另外一個太空太空的一個檢驗我的天啊也要納入那現在納入情況如何可以做到嗎\n\n08:51.179 --> 09:08.801\n我們是這樣子啦,我們那棟大樓裡面有消防署,他有三個層樓,那麼他在107年的時候他要搬遷,他談出來的空間,我們有做規劃,剛好可以容納我們要做醫術研究中心的一些設備,可以慢慢進來。\n\n09:09.682 --> 09:21.416\n剛好,太空也可以農蠟進去吧?應該可以因為我們如果要到宜蘭去做太空運送訓練你們三層樓,你現在他6、7、8是不是三層樓總面積多少?樓底板面積多少?\n\n09:23.803 --> 09:24.964\n五點七二一的是設備那這個設備\n\n09:49.480 --> 09:51.041\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n\n10:06.424 --> 10:21.738\n當時的規劃的設備是建築式的。那麼原來在宜蘭的那個工程中心,當時那個space說要做那個運去的長海、展覽等等。那第一個原因是因為當地的\n\n10:22.959 --> 10:26.542\n你現在殘骸要放在哪裡?你不要擴大問題喔。所以殘骸未來要搭電梯上去到678樓嗎?你在說什麼?\n\n10:45.516 --> 11:01.390\n就是那個空地放殘骸民眾有意見那整棟大樓你說這些殘骸是你要用678樓取代這個功能好啦我就時間到了我要拜託你這個國家運安工程是不是要新建一個大樓還是你要用什麼樣的線路的樓層去\n\n11:03.291 --> 11:03.711\n委員會主任委員會主任\n\n11:25.326 --> 11:40.933\n進不去大樓的你們要選擇什麼場子比如說大的殘骸你要放哪裡你不可能坐電梯上去嘛還用吊車吊上去當地民眾會不會會被那個complain呢最後拜託你們要精確的規劃因為上次這個規劃你們用掉了多少萬現在不做了你們用掉了多少錢啊\n\n11:46.463 --> 12:02.881\n大概一百來萬做規劃後來就就因為要等交你們109年的總預算的一個稅數報告是匡列800以執行836萬喔對不對然後有些是租金那實際實際用在規劃設計預先的到底是多少錢\n\n12:07.403 --> 12:34.554\n大概...董委員告訴我大概四百萬啦一百萬變四百萬因為...因為這個就是...那你好啦這樣好不好你給交通委員一個報告啦我...我是不是會給你一個書面報告第二個齁你要很清楚的先期規劃第二個先期取得行政院的支持啦你不要現在告訴我們678三層樓消防署他的什麼空軍救總他離開了就是你們的萬一到最後落了半天又不是你們的整個規劃真的...\n\n12:36.115 --> 12:40.372\n真的真的很離譜啦好不好我覺得你要行政院先同意謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.321,"end":13.733,"text":"好謝謝主席有請我們交通部陳次長跟公務總局的陳局長陳局長來公務局陳局長"},{"start":19.597,"end":36.497,"text":"委員好 誒說真的啦 這個兩位都是 這個從公路總局到公路局齁 這個也是我們前局長 現任的局長 你們對於這個案子應該都非常熟啊 尤其公路總局邊坡的一個分類啊 我看是從之前的時代一路到現在"},{"start":37.378,"end":53.956,"text":"我先請教一下那一天6月4日在基隆草津公園入口處這樣的一個崩塌或者走山的一個過程我看第二天我們李部長李孟雲部長就很積極我看到好像是陳局長陪他去的"},{"start":56.318,"end":79.712,"text":"他那天對媒體講的第一段話我是有點嚇到是誰給他這些資料的他這樣子說這次基隆發生崩塌的地點邊坡外觀表面正常直坯生長情況也良好再來他說了過去一無發生崩塌的現象陳局長這是你跟部長說的嗎"},{"start":81.431,"end":82.292,"text":"所以表面看起來職務很好嗎?"},{"start":108.646,"end":111.111,"text":"因為我重複看了一下現場民眾提供的圖片因為我業障多"},{"start":120.734,"end":139.861,"text":"哇 右邊這是1、2年9月 去年9月 這次還沒有大崩塌之前 也就是說我們部長在形容的右邊這個水泥 你們整個大面積整修完的這個結果 然後這面積多大啊 邊坡噴泥土的一個掛網 啊這麼大"},{"start":142.304,"end":168.593,"text":"然後部長當然他去的時候是已經崩下來了可是你這樣子跟當地的民眾說奇怪這麼多年來這個植物都生長得很好也看不出來任何的問題我覺得有點莫名其妙過去沒有崩塌這也莫名其妙當然不管是小規模落實民眾反應你們這邊早就圍四月就開始把它圍起來了嘛"},{"start":169.133,"end":193.471,"text":"而且如果沒有問題你們會做這麼大的面積的工程嗎所以陳局長還是次長這個不能給部長喔部長過去選水利的我們很多人是擔心他到底交通的一個專業夠不夠但後面我們覺得其實這是一個團隊團隊做得起來就OK但是你團隊若不說實話坦白講你說這莫名其妙嘛"},{"start":194.301,"end":198.764,"text":"所以這個照片出來第一個你們當時有去修補有去預防可是在部長的第一時間講這個我又覺得很奇怪你們自己想想看他到底哪裡拿到錯誤訊息第二個"},{"start":218.237,"end":246.206,"text":"你們分級有制度但是其實對一般邏輯上面大家不解的是什麼你們因為都是A、B、C、D按理說它的狀況應是順順的上去或順順的下來但是有時候天威難測大自然有時候它是D看起來很安全的一個就下來所以你從安全的直接跳到A級我覺得這是沒辦法預測的"},{"start":247.466,"end":271.714,"text":"可是如果你要從A級馬上再跳回來CD級我就覺得很奇怪你知道嗎你這樣子去年4月4月份這是4月份的相片看起來好像實在還不錯但是那時候4月份事實上你們還是第一期就最安全的完全無狀況但到了6月份"},{"start":273.345,"end":296.415,"text":"你們開始準備修補了你們就直接跳成A級我覺得這合理嘛因為出事了嘛原本安定的穩定的這個他現在變不安定了嘛我覺得這可以接受可是當你去修補之後修補這一塊之後你馬上也沒有把它列在B級直接跳到C級次長講一下是什麼道理"},{"start":298.275,"end":315.896,"text":"我跟委員報告一下首先這個也是稍微回應一下就是說部長到現場的時候剛才陳局長特別講到因為以往是有林信的像這種邊坡的滑動或落石那真的大面積的一個崩塌是沒有所以他大概是這樣"},{"start":316.357,"end":316.377,"text":"〔記者訪問〕"},{"start":347.017,"end":348.058,"text":"我告訴你這工程9月21日完工"},{"start":377.138,"end":394.532,"text":"112年9月21日報竣工你們什麼時候把他變成C級的十月份牛頭對不了馬尾這是莫名其妙你知道嗎你剛剛回答我也覺得啊那第二個你們所謂B級的災害的定義兩年內曾經發生災害"},{"start":399.142,"end":422.292,"text":"然後C級是五年內曾有災害他明明就符合說才剛修完我觀察個一年到兩年如果都沒有問題他就符合你B級的定義我這樣講的意思說希望你們未來像這樣的有危險的一個地方你明明做修補了A級他應該先降到B級按照你們的規定觀察兩年"},{"start":423.112,"end":445.651,"text":"他曾經有落實嘛吼你被修補了但觀察兩年附近沒有在狀況才要調而不是觀察不到一個月9月21號報竣工然後10月份就把他調到C級我覺得你們可不可以回去檢討一下這種調的方式可以嗎我想委員的意見我們則請公務局再去檢討一下公務局在你旁邊啊"},{"start":446.892,"end":469.822,"text":"沒問題,我們會去做處理。原則上這種降級,我的了解,它還是有經過一定的一個內部的一個評鑑或檢討以後才降級的啦。不是,不是這樣的一個機制。那就跟你市長講的就不一樣嘛。9月21號換工,觀察一段時間。好,你們會去檢討一下。我們會去檢討,我們會去檢討。我最後一個小問題再問一下我們的林信得那個主委。抱歉,抱歉,再過兩分鐘時間,謝謝。"},{"start":475.556,"end":499.151,"text":"這個國家運安研究中心說真的啦你心中是到底想不想做啊因為之前我們洪現在這個洪孟楷委員之前有問過你啦你的意思就是說其實很多跟大學合作啦研究中心合作啦也可以取代類似的功能現在到底是不是這樣啦因為我跟你講喔我們從上屆開始跟你之前的主委為這個事情討論辯論預算為什麼要怎麼編"},{"start":502.501,"end":529.179,"text":"講得真的是讓我們太感動了非要不行不然這國家這個運安可能會毀掉就現在怎麼輕輕鬆鬆的好像都沒有事情啊現在到底做不做那現在行政院當時跟你叫暫停的原因是說你原本的規劃沒有把電動車納入我也覺得一定要納入因為這是未來的趨勢那另外一個太空太空的一個檢驗我的天啊也要納入那現在納入情況如何可以做到嗎"},{"start":531.179,"end":548.801,"text":"我們是這樣子啦,我們那棟大樓裡面有消防署,他有三個層樓,那麼他在107年的時候他要搬遷,他談出來的空間,我們有做規劃,剛好可以容納我們要做醫術研究中心的一些設備,可以慢慢進來。"},{"start":549.682,"end":561.416,"text":"剛好,太空也可以農蠟進去吧?應該可以因為我們如果要到宜蘭去做太空運送訓練你們三層樓,你現在他6、7、8是不是三層樓總面積多少?樓底板面積多少?"},{"start":563.803,"end":564.964,"text":"五點七二一的是設備那這個設備"},{"start":589.48,"end":591.041,"text":"委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":606.424,"end":621.738,"text":"當時的規劃的設備是建築式的。那麼原來在宜蘭的那個工程中心,當時那個space說要做那個運去的長海、展覽等等。那第一個原因是因為當地的"},{"start":622.959,"end":626.542,"text":"你現在殘骸要放在哪裡?你不要擴大問題喔。所以殘骸未來要搭電梯上去到678樓嗎?你在說什麼?"},{"start":645.516,"end":661.39,"text":"就是那個空地放殘骸民眾有意見那整棟大樓你說這些殘骸是你要用678樓取代這個功能好啦我就時間到了我要拜託你這個國家運安工程是不是要新建一個大樓還是你要用什麼樣的線路的樓層去"},{"start":663.291,"end":663.711,"text":"委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":685.326,"end":700.933,"text":"進不去大樓的你們要選擇什麼場子比如說大的殘骸你要放哪裡你不可能坐電梯上去嘛還用吊車吊上去當地民眾會不會會被那個complain呢最後拜託你們要精確的規劃因為上次這個規劃你們用掉了多少萬現在不做了你們用掉了多少錢啊"},{"start":706.463,"end":722.881,"text":"大概一百來萬做規劃後來就就因為要等交你們109年的總預算的一個稅數報告是匡列800以執行836萬喔對不對然後有些是租金那實際實際用在規劃設計預先的到底是多少錢"},{"start":727.403,"end":754.554,"text":"大概...董委員告訴我大概四百萬啦一百萬變四百萬因為...因為這個就是...那你好啦這樣好不好你給交通委員一個報告啦我...我是不是會給你一個書面報告第二個齁你要很清楚的先期規劃第二個先期取得行政院的支持啦你不要現在告訴我們678三層樓消防署他的什麼空軍救總他離開了就是你們的萬一到最後落了半天又不是你們的整個規劃真的..."},{"start":756.115,"end":760.372,"text":"真的真的很離譜啦好不好我覺得你要行政院先同意謝謝"}]}}}}