{"id":153761,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153761","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0d7b1f4370c473d5b79546f07e693e409dbbe5275cafb4df8d38369fa36eb79f6faca63e3cbbc6605ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe","委員發言時間":"12:51:50 - 12:59:40","影片長度":"00:07:50","會議時間":"2024-06-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請文化部部長李遠、教育部、原住民族委員會、客家委員會列席就「自信臺灣深根文化軟實力－『國家語言發展法』推動成效總檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【6月5日及6日二天一次會】）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-06","start_time":"2024-06-06T12:51:50+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-06T12:59:40+08:00","duration":470,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-15"},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":886,"blocks":[["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（12時52分）謝謝主席，有請國教署和原民會。"],["主席：國教署彭署長、原民會邱副處長。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：署長好！"],["彭署長富源：委員好！"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我們常說：語言斷、文化滅、民族亡，這個大家都已經朗朗上口、耳熟能詳，當然這個背後的關鍵就是師資，所以我們今天在這個地方討論。我在擔任立委期間，三不五時就會接到陳情，那些不見得是都會地區，就是在平地、都市地區，很多家長都跟我說，我的小孩在學校被迫上什麼語、什麼語，這個也不是道聽塗說，我自己就接過很多的陳情，很多的報導也都有提到教師荒，這個「荒」包括族語的教師，所以我們想要來看看這背後到底出了什麼問題。","今天教育部的專報有提供一個數據，具有閩南語教師資格的將近1萬5,000人；客語五千多人；原住民族語二千多人，而且這二千多人除了包含正職、專職的族語教師，還分了16族，所以如果除以16族，其實這個數據有一點點嚴重，先請教原民會跟國教署署長，到底你們有沒有去盤點過，我們需要多少的族語師資？然後你們有沒有依照族群別做過調查？因為我相信，有些族群其實是夠的，可是真的有的族群是很少、很少，署長你們有沒有做過這樣的盤點？"],["彭署長富源：跟委員報告，就每一個學校內的孩子選完之後，能夠提供師資的這件事，我們是盡全力的去處理，但是我仍然擔心，所有的孩子想要選、就是當他進到那42個支別、語系的時候……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：方言別。"],["彭署長富源：我覺得應該還要再努力。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：是啊！這個數據跟我們的需求量應該還有很大一段落差，可是至少……"],["彭署長富源：我們會持續的跟原民會努力，還有那個驗證等級。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：對，這個資料要開始著手調查，我希望2個月內提供可以嗎？"],["彭署長富源：跟委員報告，這個我們這2天再跟你的辦公室商量一下要怎麼調查。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：OK！"],["彭署長富源：因為如果是調查課程數，那就很容易……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：可以，我有方法。"],["彭署長富源：可是如果要完全進到族別，那就要看學生的情形。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝。我們繼續來看一下，其實我聽到族語教師抱怨最多的是證照專業門檻高，待遇卻沒吸引力，我們來看一下，他們講的這些證照資格，不論是從校外進來做教學支援，也就是教支老師，他需要高級以上的語言證照和教師合格資格；要在學校內兼族語課，他也需要高級證照和教師證。我們來看待遇，問題就來了，我覺得這也是癥點，這些我之前都有質詢過，我希望教育部要正視，為什麼呢？以前我們講鐘點費260元，我自己是教師出身，以前的源頭是這樣，這是給學校的正職老師，就是我們去兼課，幫人家代課時，那個有一點加班費的概念，那是給正職老師，但是沒有想到後來有越來越多的支援教師時，我們卻還是用這樣的鐘點費，所以他們覺得有問題。","我現在簡單的講，因為時間的關係，我們用一個最簡單的算法，現在鐘點費提高到360元了，但是他們一個禮拜最多只能上20堂課，那麼他一個月的月薪就是28,800元，這是我們的最低基本工資，而且有可能未來最低基本工資還會高於它，所以這個部分遠遠低於專職族語教師的最低薪資，薪水只有他們的一半。另外還有實驗學校的那些民族教育老師，那些多半是由年輕老師擔任，他們一年有13.5個月的薪資，可是教支人員沒有寒暑假，他們只有9個月，這樣怎麼會找得到老師？所以我覺得證照的門檻是一個問題，但不是最大的問題，而是我們有沒有誘因讓他們可以將這件事情當做一生的職業、職志，為文化語言傳承來努力？我覺得這部分我們要一起來討論。","還有，這些老師都很辛苦，但是薪水卻不一樣，同工不同酬，最起碼我們要替他們正名，其實我們有一個聘用辦法，他們都叫做原住民族語老師，不要說，哎呀！你是專職教師，我是教支人員，不好聽啊！其實他們都是原住民族語教師，我想這個部分我們也要做。","最後一點，我們要幫忙，既然教師荒，我們找了一堆人，拜託他們來學校幫忙擔任一下族語教師，但是我接到好多陳情，造成他們的困擾因為學校要求他們要整學期投保，結果讓他們喪失很重要、很重要的農保資格，這是非同小可的事情，會影響他一輩子，所以這個部分還有很多的問題，請你們到我的辦公室一起來討論。","我現在想說最後一句，我希望原民會也好、教育部也好，你們不要忘記，我們對國家語言投注這麼多的錢，我們可能會覺得這好像沒有什麼效果，我們投注這麼多的錢有用嗎？我希望大家要有一個遠大的願景，其實我們最後還是要回歸到，其實我們培養這些師資是希望未來我們能夠有一個原住民族學校，一個以該族群語言為核心的一般學校，我想這個部分至少要開始推動試辦計畫，要不然越來越多人、社會出現對立的聲音：對原住民那麼好，語言的經費那麼多，他們的語言到底有沒有進步？國家這樣子做值不值得？我們應該要推出一個願景，我們要透過這樣的師資儲備，我們要先推動試辦學校，讓大家可以很快的看到國小畢業走出去的人那麼會講族語，這筆錢花得很值得，我覺得教育部和原民會要好好的思考這個問題好不好？謝謝署長和副處長，謝謝主席。"],["彭署長富源：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝伍麗華委員。署長、副處長請坐。","接下來請鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員，鍾佳濱委員不在。","請葉元之委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":274,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-15","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","林倩綺","萬美玲","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","郭昱晴","林俊憲","張啓楷","吳沛憶","范雲","吳春城","鄭天財Sra 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00:01:25,349\n這個也不是道聽途說我自己接過的陳情就很多那很多的報導也都會提到說教師荒這個荒是包括族語的教師所以呢在這個當中其實背後就是我們想要來看看到底出了什麼問題今天教育部的專報裡面有提供一個數據\n\n4\n00:01:26,869 --> 00:01:46,597\n米蘭語具有教師資格的將近一萬五千人克語五千多人原住民族語文兩千多人而且這個兩千多人除了包含正職專職的族語教師而且還分了16組\n\n5\n00:01:48,158 --> 00:02:14,781\n所以如果去除16族其實這個數據是有一點點嚴重所以先請教我們原民會跟我們的國教署署長就是到底有沒有去盤點過我們到底需要多少的族語師資然後有沒有去依照族群別去做調查因為我相信有的族群他其實是夠的\n\n6\n00:02:15,962 --> 00:02:16,122\n委員報告\n\n7\n00:02:27,867 --> 00:02:49,534\n就每一個學校內的孩子選完之後能夠提供師資的這件事我們是盡全力去處理但是我仍然也擔心所有的孩子他想要選當他進到了那個42個之別的語系的時候我覺得應該還要再努力\n\n8\n00:02:51,535 --> 00:02:59,700\n對,所以這個數據應該是很大的一段落差跟我們的需求量可是至少我們跟原民會持續來努力對,那這個資料要開始著手調查也希望如果說兩個月內來提供可以嗎?\n\n9\n00:03:08,855 --> 00:03:12,518\n我聽到最多的抱怨其實是說竹語教師說那個證照專業門檻很高啊然後待遇呢沒有吸引力那我們來看一下這些他講的證照資格\n\n10\n00:03:37,214 --> 00:03:52,149\n不論是從校外進來做教學支援的也就是教職老師他是需要語言證照高級以上跟合格證書學校內要來兼主語課他也是需要高級證照跟教師證\n\n11\n00:03:53,530 --> 00:04:00,452\n那麼如果我們來看待遇問題就來了我覺得這也是爭點我之前都有質詢過我希望教育部要來正視為什麼呢以前我們講的終點費260我自己是教師出身這個以前的源頭是這樣給正職學校的老師我們去監課我們去幫人家待課的時候那個有一點點是加班費的概念是給正職老師\n\n12\n00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:44,265\n但是沒有想到後來有越來越多支援教師的時候我們用這樣的終點費他們就會覺得有問題那我現在簡單的講因為時間的關係我們用一個最簡單的算法如果說以這些現在我們提高到360了他一個禮拜最多只能上20堂那麼他一個月的月薪28800\n\n13\n00:04:47,266 --> 00:05:16,005\n這是我們的最低基本工資而且有可能未來的最低基本工資還會高於他所以這個部分他是遠遠光是低於最低薪資的專職主語教師他的薪水是一半另外還有實驗學校的那些民族教育老師多半是年輕老師去擔任他們都有一整年13.5個月的薪水可是教資人員沒有寒暑假只有9個月\n\n14\n00:05:17,406 --> 00:05:37,793\n怎麼會找得到老師?怎麼會找得到老師?所以我覺得證照的門檻是一個問題但是不是最大的問題而是到底有沒有誘因能夠讓他們為這件事情當作一生的職業他們的職質為文化語言傳承來努力我覺得這個部分我們要來一起討論還有\n\n15\n00:05:40,214 --> 00:06:05,423\n這些老師都很辛苦,薪水不一樣同工不同酬我們最起碼給他們一個證明其實我們有一個聘用辦法他們都叫做原住民族語老師不要說你是專職教師我是教資人員不好聽啊其實他們都是原住民族語教師我想這個部分我們也要做最後一點就是我們要去做一個幫忙啊\n\n16\n00:06:06,383 --> 00:06:11,250\n既然教師慌我們找了一堆人拜託拜託來學校幫忙擔任主語教師一下但是我接到好多陳情造成困擾他們怎麼樣呢因為他們學校被要求要整學期投保\n\n17\n00:06:22,565 --> 00:06:46,190\n結果讓他們喪失很重要很重要的農保資格這是非同小可的事情影響他一輩子所以我想這個部分還有很多的問題可以到辦公室我們一起來討論那我現在是想說我最後一句就是希望原民會也好教育部也好不要忘記我們國家語言投注這麼多的錢\n\n18\n00:06:47,290 --> 00:07:12,458\n我們可能會想說好像沒什麼效果我們投注這麼多錢有用嗎我希望大家有一個遠大的願景其實我們還是最後要回歸到我們做這一些師資其實是希望未來能夠有一個原住民族學校一個以該族群語言為核心的一個一般學校那我想這個部分至少要來開始推試辦計畫\n\n19\n00:07:15,419 --> 00:07:30,935\n要不然越來越多人我們的社會對立的聲音對原住民那麼好語言的經費那麼多他們的語言到底有沒有進步國家這樣子做值不值得我們應該要推出一個願景我們要去透過這樣的師資的儲備我們先去做一些事辦的這樣的學校讓大家很快的看到\n\n20\n00:07:37,481 --> 00:07:39,605\n國小畢業走出去那麼會講族語這筆錢很值得我覺得教育部、原民會要好好思考這個問題好不好好謝謝署長、謝謝副處長、謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n12399\t18823\t謝謝主席 有請國教署袁明慧好 國教署彭署長 袁明慧邱副處長好 署長好我們常說語言斷文化滅民族王大家都已經朗朗上口耳熟能詳那背後當然這個關鍵就是師資所以我們今天在這個地方討論\n41056\t60141\t我自己擔任立委的當中其實真的是三不五時我會接到一些陳情那些不見得是都會地區就是來到平地都市地區很多家長會跟我說我的小孩怎麼學校被迫上什麼語什麼語\n62342\t85349\t這個也不是道聽途說我自己接過的陳情就很多那很多的報導也都會提到說教師荒這個荒是包括族語的教師所以呢在這個當中其實背後就是我們想要來看看到底出了什麼問題今天教育部的專報裡面有提供一個數據\n86869\t106597\t米蘭語具有教師資格的將近一萬五千人克語五千多人原住民族語文兩千多人而且這個兩千多人除了包含正職專職的族語教師而且還分了16組\n108158\t134781\t所以如果去除16族其實這個數據是有一點點嚴重所以先請教我們原民會跟我們的國教署署長就是到底有沒有去盤點過我們到底需要多少的族語師資然後有沒有去依照族群別去做調查因為我相信有的族群他其實是夠的\n135962\t136122\t委員報告\n147867\t169534\t就每一個學校內的孩子選完之後能夠提供師資的這件事我們是盡全力去處理但是我仍然也擔心所有的孩子他想要選當他進到了那個42個之別的語系的時候我覺得應該還要再努力\n171535\t179700\t對,所以這個數據應該是很大的一段落差跟我們的需求量可是至少我們跟原民會持續來努力對,那這個資料要開始著手調查也希望如果說兩個月內來提供可以嗎?\n188855\t192518\t我聽到最多的抱怨其實是說竹語教師說那個證照專業門檻很高啊然後待遇呢沒有吸引力那我們來看一下這些他講的證照資格\n217214\t232149\t不論是從校外進來做教學支援的也就是教職老師他是需要語言證照高級以上跟合格證書學校內要來兼主語課他也是需要高級證照跟教師證\n233530\t240452\t那麼如果我們來看待遇問題就來了我覺得這也是爭點我之前都有質詢過我希望教育部要來正視為什麼呢以前我們講的終點費260我自己是教師出身這個以前的源頭是這樣給正職學校的老師我們去監課我們去幫人家待課的時候那個有一點點是加班費的概念是給正職老師\n262560\t284265\t但是沒有想到後來有越來越多支援教師的時候我們用這樣的終點費他們就會覺得有問題那我現在簡單的講因為時間的關係我們用一個最簡單的算法如果說以這些現在我們提高到360了他一個禮拜最多只能上20堂那麼他一個月的月薪28800\n287266\t316005\t這是我們的最低基本工資而且有可能未來的最低基本工資還會高於他所以這個部分他是遠遠光是低於最低薪資的專職主語教師他的薪水是一半另外還有實驗學校的那些民族教育老師多半是年輕老師去擔任他們都有一整年13.5個月的薪水可是教資人員沒有寒暑假只有9個月\n317406\t337793\t怎麼會找得到老師?怎麼會找得到老師?所以我覺得證照的門檻是一個問題但是不是最大的問題而是到底有沒有誘因能夠讓他們為這件事情當作一生的職業他們的職質為文化語言傳承來努力我覺得這個部分我們要來一起討論還有\n340214\t365423\t這些老師都很辛苦,薪水不一樣同工不同酬我們最起碼給他們一個證明其實我們有一個聘用辦法他們都叫做原住民族語老師不要說你是專職教師我是教資人員不好聽啊其實他們都是原住民族語教師我想這個部分我們也要做最後一點就是我們要去做一個幫忙啊\n366383\t371250\t既然教師慌我們找了一堆人拜託拜託來學校幫忙擔任主語教師一下但是我接到好多陳情造成困擾他們怎麼樣呢因為他們學校被要求要整學期投保\n382565\t406190\t結果讓他們喪失很重要很重要的農保資格這是非同小可的事情影響他一輩子所以我想這個部分還有很多的問題可以到辦公室我們一起來討論那我現在是想說我最後一句就是希望原民會也好教育部也好不要忘記我們國家語言投注這麼多的錢\n407290\t432458\t我們可能會想說好像沒什麼效果我們投注這麼多錢有用嗎我希望大家有一個遠大的願景其實我們還是最後要回歸到我們做這一些師資其實是希望未來能夠有一個原住民族學校一個以該族群語言為核心的一個一般學校那我想這個部分至少要來開始推試辦計畫\n435419\t450935\t要不然越來越多人我們的社會對立的聲音對原住民那麼好語言的經費那麼多他們的語言到底有沒有進步國家這樣子做值不值得我們應該要推出一個願景我們要去透過這樣的師資的儲備我們先去做一些事辦的這樣的學校讓大家很快的看到\n457481\t459605\t國小畢業走出去那麼會講族語這筆錢很值得我覺得教育部、原民會要好好思考這個問題好不好好 謝謝署長、謝謝副處長、謝謝主席\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請國教署袁明慧好 國教署彭署長 袁明慧邱副處長好 署長好我們常說語言斷文化滅民族王大家都已經朗朗上口耳熟能詳那背後當然這個關鍵就是師資所以我們今天在這個地方討論\n我自己擔任立委的當中其實真的是三不五時我會接到一些陳情那些不見得是都會地區就是來到平地都市地區很多家長會跟我說我的小孩怎麼學校被迫上什麼語什麼語\n這個也不是道聽途說我自己接過的陳情就很多那很多的報導也都會提到說教師荒這個荒是包括族語的教師所以呢在這個當中其實背後就是我們想要來看看到底出了什麼問題今天教育部的專報裡面有提供一個數據\n米蘭語具有教師資格的將近一萬五千人克語五千多人原住民族語文兩千多人而且這個兩千多人除了包含正職專職的族語教師而且還分了16組\n所以如果去除16族其實這個數據是有一點點嚴重所以先請教我們原民會跟我們的國教署署長就是到底有沒有去盤點過我們到底需要多少的族語師資然後有沒有去依照族群別去做調查因為我相信有的族群他其實是夠的\n委員報告\n就每一個學校內的孩子選完之後能夠提供師資的這件事我們是盡全力去處理但是我仍然也擔心所有的孩子他想要選當他進到了那個42個之別的語系的時候我覺得應該還要再努力\n對,所以這個數據應該是很大的一段落差跟我們的需求量可是至少我們跟原民會持續來努力對,那這個資料要開始著手調查也希望如果說兩個月內來提供可以嗎?\n我聽到最多的抱怨其實是說竹語教師說那個證照專業門檻很高啊然後待遇呢沒有吸引力那我們來看一下這些他講的證照資格\n不論是從校外進來做教學支援的也就是教職老師他是需要語言證照高級以上跟合格證書學校內要來兼主語課他也是需要高級證照跟教師證\n那麼如果我們來看待遇問題就來了我覺得這也是爭點我之前都有質詢過我希望教育部要來正視為什麼呢以前我們講的終點費260我自己是教師出身這個以前的源頭是這樣給正職學校的老師我們去監課我們去幫人家待課的時候那個有一點點是加班費的概念是給正職老師\n但是沒有想到後來有越來越多支援教師的時候我們用這樣的終點費他們就會覺得有問題那我現在簡單的講因為時間的關係我們用一個最簡單的算法如果說以這些現在我們提高到360了他一個禮拜最多只能上20堂那麼他一個月的月薪28800\n這是我們的最低基本工資而且有可能未來的最低基本工資還會高於他所以這個部分他是遠遠光是低於最低薪資的專職主語教師他的薪水是一半另外還有實驗學校的那些民族教育老師多半是年輕老師去擔任他們都有一整年13.5個月的薪水可是教資人員沒有寒暑假只有9個月\n怎麼會找得到老師?怎麼會找得到老師?所以我覺得證照的門檻是一個問題但是不是最大的問題而是到底有沒有誘因能夠讓他們為這件事情當作一生的職業他們的職質為文化語言傳承來努力我覺得這個部分我們要來一起討論還有\n這些老師都很辛苦,薪水不一樣同工不同酬我們最起碼給他們一個證明其實我們有一個聘用辦法他們都叫做原住民族語老師不要說你是專職教師我是教資人員不好聽啊其實他們都是原住民族語教師我想這個部分我們也要做最後一點就是我們要去做一個幫忙啊\n既然教師慌我們找了一堆人拜託拜託來學校幫忙擔任主語教師一下但是我接到好多陳情造成困擾他們怎麼樣呢因為他們學校被要求要整學期投保\n結果讓他們喪失很重要很重要的農保資格這是非同小可的事情影響他一輩子所以我想這個部分還有很多的問題可以到辦公室我們一起來討論那我現在是想說我最後一句就是希望原民會也好教育部也好不要忘記我們國家語言投注這麼多的錢\n我們可能會想說好像沒什麼效果我們投注這麼多錢有用嗎我希望大家有一個遠大的願景其實我們還是最後要回歸到我們做這一些師資其實是希望未來能夠有一個原住民族學校一個以該族群語言為核心的一個一般學校那我想這個部分至少要來開始推試辦計畫\n要不然越來越多人我們的社會對立的聲音對原住民那麼好語言的經費那麼多他們的語言到底有沒有進步國家這樣子做值不值得我們應該要推出一個願景我們要去透過這樣的師資的儲備我們先去做一些事辦的這樣的學校讓大家很快的看到\n國小畢業走出去那麼會講族語這筆錢很值得我覺得教育部、原民會要好好思考這個問題好不好好 謝謝署長、謝謝副處長、謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:12.399 --> 00:18.823\n謝謝主席有請國教署袁明慧好國教署彭署長袁明慧邱副處長好署長好我們常說語言斷文化滅民族王大家都已經朗朗上口耳熟能詳那背後當然這個關鍵就是師資所以我們今天在這個地方討論\n\n00:41.056 --> 01:00.141\n我自己擔任立委的當中其實真的是三不五時我會接到一些陳情那些不見得是都會地區就是來到平地都市地區很多家長會跟我說我的小孩怎麼學校被迫上什麼語什麼語\n\n01:02.342 --> 01:25.349\n這個也不是道聽途說我自己接過的陳情就很多那很多的報導也都會提到說教師荒這個荒是包括族語的教師所以呢在這個當中其實背後就是我們想要來看看到底出了什麼問題今天教育部的專報裡面有提供一個數據\n\n01:26.869 --> 01:46.597\n米蘭語具有教師資格的將近一萬五千人克語五千多人原住民族語文兩千多人而且這個兩千多人除了包含正職專職的族語教師而且還分了16組\n\n01:48.158 --> 02:14.781\n所以如果去除16族其實這個數據是有一點點嚴重所以先請教我們原民會跟我們的國教署署長就是到底有沒有去盤點過我們到底需要多少的族語師資然後有沒有去依照族群別去做調查因為我相信有的族群他其實是夠的\n\n02:15.962 --> 02:16.122\n委員報告\n\n02:27.867 --> 02:49.534\n就每一個學校內的孩子選完之後能夠提供師資的這件事我們是盡全力去處理但是我仍然也擔心所有的孩子他想要選當他進到了那個42個之別的語系的時候我覺得應該還要再努力\n\n02:51.535 --> 02:59.700\n對,所以這個數據應該是很大的一段落差跟我們的需求量可是至少我們跟原民會持續來努力對,那這個資料要開始著手調查也希望如果說兩個月內來提供可以嗎?\n\n03:08.855 --> 03:12.518\n我聽到最多的抱怨其實是說竹語教師說那個證照專業門檻很高啊然後待遇呢沒有吸引力那我們來看一下這些他講的證照資格\n\n03:37.214 --> 03:52.149\n不論是從校外進來做教學支援的也就是教職老師他是需要語言證照高級以上跟合格證書學校內要來兼主語課他也是需要高級證照跟教師證\n\n03:53.530 --> 04:00.452\n那麼如果我們來看待遇問題就來了我覺得這也是爭點我之前都有質詢過我希望教育部要來正視為什麼呢以前我們講的終點費260我自己是教師出身這個以前的源頭是這樣給正職學校的老師我們去監課我們去幫人家待課的時候那個有一點點是加班費的概念是給正職老師\n\n04:22.560 --> 04:44.265\n但是沒有想到後來有越來越多支援教師的時候我們用這樣的終點費他們就會覺得有問題那我現在簡單的講因為時間的關係我們用一個最簡單的算法如果說以這些現在我們提高到360了他一個禮拜最多只能上20堂那麼他一個月的月薪28800\n\n04:47.266 --> 05:16.005\n這是我們的最低基本工資而且有可能未來的最低基本工資還會高於他所以這個部分他是遠遠光是低於最低薪資的專職主語教師他的薪水是一半另外還有實驗學校的那些民族教育老師多半是年輕老師去擔任他們都有一整年13.5個月的薪水可是教資人員沒有寒暑假只有9個月\n\n05:17.406 --> 05:37.793\n怎麼會找得到老師?怎麼會找得到老師?所以我覺得證照的門檻是一個問題但是不是最大的問題而是到底有沒有誘因能夠讓他們為這件事情當作一生的職業他們的職質為文化語言傳承來努力我覺得這個部分我們要來一起討論還有\n\n05:40.214 --> 06:05.423\n這些老師都很辛苦,薪水不一樣同工不同酬我們最起碼給他們一個證明其實我們有一個聘用辦法他們都叫做原住民族語老師不要說你是專職教師我是教資人員不好聽啊其實他們都是原住民族語教師我想這個部分我們也要做最後一點就是我們要去做一個幫忙啊\n\n06:06.383 --> 06:11.250\n既然教師慌我們找了一堆人拜託拜託來學校幫忙擔任主語教師一下但是我接到好多陳情造成困擾他們怎麼樣呢因為他們學校被要求要整學期投保\n\n06:22.565 --> 06:46.190\n結果讓他們喪失很重要很重要的農保資格這是非同小可的事情影響他一輩子所以我想這個部分還有很多的問題可以到辦公室我們一起來討論那我現在是想說我最後一句就是希望原民會也好教育部也好不要忘記我們國家語言投注這麼多的錢\n\n06:47.290 --> 07:12.458\n我們可能會想說好像沒什麼效果我們投注這麼多錢有用嗎我希望大家有一個遠大的願景其實我們還是最後要回歸到我們做這一些師資其實是希望未來能夠有一個原住民族學校一個以該族群語言為核心的一個一般學校那我想這個部分至少要來開始推試辦計畫\n\n07:15.419 --> 07:30.935\n要不然越來越多人我們的社會對立的聲音對原住民那麼好語言的經費那麼多他們的語言到底有沒有進步國家這樣子做值不值得我們應該要推出一個願景我們要去透過這樣的師資的儲備我們先去做一些事辦的這樣的學校讓大家很快的看到\n\n07:37.481 --> 07:39.605\n國小畢業走出去那麼會講族語這筆錢很值得我覺得教育部、原民會要好好思考這個問題好不好好謝謝署長、謝謝副處長、謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":12.399,"end":18.823,"text":"謝謝主席 有請國教署袁明慧好 國教署彭署長 袁明慧邱副處長好 署長好我們常說語言斷文化滅民族王大家都已經朗朗上口耳熟能詳那背後當然這個關鍵就是師資所以我們今天在這個地方討論"},{"start":41.056,"end":60.141,"text":"我自己擔任立委的當中其實真的是三不五時我會接到一些陳情那些不見得是都會地區就是來到平地都市地區很多家長會跟我說我的小孩怎麼學校被迫上什麼語什麼語"},{"start":62.342,"end":85.349,"text":"這個也不是道聽途說我自己接過的陳情就很多那很多的報導也都會提到說教師荒這個荒是包括族語的教師所以呢在這個當中其實背後就是我們想要來看看到底出了什麼問題今天教育部的專報裡面有提供一個數據"},{"start":86.869,"end":106.597,"text":"米蘭語具有教師資格的將近一萬五千人克語五千多人原住民族語文兩千多人而且這個兩千多人除了包含正職專職的族語教師而且還分了16組"},{"start":108.158,"end":134.781,"text":"所以如果去除16族其實這個數據是有一點點嚴重所以先請教我們原民會跟我們的國教署署長就是到底有沒有去盤點過我們到底需要多少的族語師資然後有沒有去依照族群別去做調查因為我相信有的族群他其實是夠的"},{"start":135.962,"end":136.122,"text":"委員報告"},{"start":147.867,"end":169.534,"text":"就每一個學校內的孩子選完之後能夠提供師資的這件事我們是盡全力去處理但是我仍然也擔心所有的孩子他想要選當他進到了那個42個之別的語系的時候我覺得應該還要再努力"},{"start":171.535,"end":179.7,"text":"對,所以這個數據應該是很大的一段落差跟我們的需求量可是至少我們跟原民會持續來努力對,那這個資料要開始著手調查也希望如果說兩個月內來提供可以嗎?"},{"start":188.855,"end":192.518,"text":"我聽到最多的抱怨其實是說竹語教師說那個證照專業門檻很高啊然後待遇呢沒有吸引力那我們來看一下這些他講的證照資格"},{"start":217.214,"end":232.149,"text":"不論是從校外進來做教學支援的也就是教職老師他是需要語言證照高級以上跟合格證書學校內要來兼主語課他也是需要高級證照跟教師證"},{"start":233.53,"end":240.452,"text":"那麼如果我們來看待遇問題就來了我覺得這也是爭點我之前都有質詢過我希望教育部要來正視為什麼呢以前我們講的終點費260我自己是教師出身這個以前的源頭是這樣給正職學校的老師我們去監課我們去幫人家待課的時候那個有一點點是加班費的概念是給正職老師"},{"start":262.56,"end":284.265,"text":"但是沒有想到後來有越來越多支援教師的時候我們用這樣的終點費他們就會覺得有問題那我現在簡單的講因為時間的關係我們用一個最簡單的算法如果說以這些現在我們提高到360了他一個禮拜最多只能上20堂那麼他一個月的月薪28800"},{"start":287.266,"end":316.005,"text":"這是我們的最低基本工資而且有可能未來的最低基本工資還會高於他所以這個部分他是遠遠光是低於最低薪資的專職主語教師他的薪水是一半另外還有實驗學校的那些民族教育老師多半是年輕老師去擔任他們都有一整年13.5個月的薪水可是教資人員沒有寒暑假只有9個月"},{"start":317.406,"end":337.793,"text":"怎麼會找得到老師?怎麼會找得到老師?所以我覺得證照的門檻是一個問題但是不是最大的問題而是到底有沒有誘因能夠讓他們為這件事情當作一生的職業他們的職質為文化語言傳承來努力我覺得這個部分我們要來一起討論還有"},{"start":340.214,"end":365.423,"text":"這些老師都很辛苦,薪水不一樣同工不同酬我們最起碼給他們一個證明其實我們有一個聘用辦法他們都叫做原住民族語老師不要說你是專職教師我是教資人員不好聽啊其實他們都是原住民族語教師我想這個部分我們也要做最後一點就是我們要去做一個幫忙啊"},{"start":366.383,"end":371.25,"text":"既然教師慌我們找了一堆人拜託拜託來學校幫忙擔任主語教師一下但是我接到好多陳情造成困擾他們怎麼樣呢因為他們學校被要求要整學期投保"},{"start":382.565,"end":406.19,"text":"結果讓他們喪失很重要很重要的農保資格這是非同小可的事情影響他一輩子所以我想這個部分還有很多的問題可以到辦公室我們一起來討論那我現在是想說我最後一句就是希望原民會也好教育部也好不要忘記我們國家語言投注這麼多的錢"},{"start":407.29,"end":432.458,"text":"我們可能會想說好像沒什麼效果我們投注這麼多錢有用嗎我希望大家有一個遠大的願景其實我們還是最後要回歸到我們做這一些師資其實是希望未來能夠有一個原住民族學校一個以該族群語言為核心的一個一般學校那我想這個部分至少要來開始推試辦計畫"},{"start":435.419,"end":450.935,"text":"要不然越來越多人我們的社會對立的聲音對原住民那麼好語言的經費那麼多他們的語言到底有沒有進步國家這樣子做值不值得我們應該要推出一個願景我們要去透過這樣的師資的儲備我們先去做一些事辦的這樣的學校讓大家很快的看到"},{"start":457.481,"end":459.605,"text":"國小畢業走出去那麼會講族語這筆錢很值得我覺得教育部、原民會要好好思考這個問題好不好好 謝謝署長、謝謝副處長、謝謝主席"}]}}}}