{"id":153778,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153778","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/91386385e8f925e27dff69fa21de29a363a4d3464892865b03adaedb4d9a025e7640df9354259b2b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭國文","委員發言時間":"16:00:07 - 16:15:45","影片長度":"00:15:38","會議時間":"2024-06-07T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第17次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。 \n二、6月7日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、6月11日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","type":"Clip","date":"2024-06-07","start_time":"2024-06-07T16:00:07+08:00","end_time":"2024-06-07T16:15:45+08:00","duration":938,"meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第17次會議","id":"院會-11-1-17","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":17},"features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"gazette":{"lineno":1354,"blocks":[["郭委員國文：（16時）主席，有請卓院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：郭委員好。"],["郭委員國文：院長好。院長，本席對你充滿期待，特別是接連兩次執政，現在是第三次執政，我們接下來的內閣延續過去內閣的政績，要如何有一些突破跟創新。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["郭委員國文：過往其實之前的內閣做過一些努力，而我在上一屆的立委當中，我們對於整個高房價問題也做過許多的努力。高房價的內容當中，我們在央行的部分做了5波的信用管制，不論是在內政部平均地權條例部分的修改，或者包括在財政部房地合一2.0或者實價登錄2.0等，我們做出了努力，總共累積起來有10波之久。可當10波之久之後，在今年初，我們看到第4季的價格住宅指數已經高達到136.2，連創5年整個房價的新高；另外，我們還看到1到4月的整個買賣移轉高達11、14萬棟，年增31.6%，創下13年來新高，簡單的講就是價量齊揚。","在這種價量齊揚的情況底下有3高，我歸結起來為量高、價高以及資本集中度高，而這3高當中，包括央行昨天也特別提到3高，它的3高是國銀不動產放款比例偏高、房貸加土建融授信占比偏高以及房價也偏高。也就是在這種情況底下，我昨天問了央行到底有沒有什麼新招，我們花了3年的時間，10波的管制方式，房價依然飆到新高。","院長，昨天我請教了央行總裁有沒有新招，我想請教一下院長，你有沒有新招？"],["卓院長榮泰：房價高漲牽涉到很多複雜的社會問題跟國人的觀念，但現在我們持續用社宅、包租代管以及利息補貼的方式來做一些平衡的作用，也許一時間所呈現的效果不是那麼多、那麼大，但是我們只要把量做到一定的程度，我認為改善是可以期待的。"],["郭委員國文：院長，我相信你要回答的內容當中，事實上我之前就有做過瞭解，不論是社宅也好，包租代管也好，基本上租屋市場裡的替代效果會比較好一點，可是就如你所說的，國人觀念上是希望擁有所有權，不論是地上物的所有權或土地的所有權，事實上擁有土地所有權或地上物所有權是有其道理的，因為它有財務槓桿的可能性、它有質押的空間，但是有房子是完全都沒有的，所以它不是沒有其道理。但是依照目前的社會住宅，我瞭解過，它的速度基本上很難快得起來，也就是你沒有達到租屋者的需求之外，你有沒有辦法達到想要擁有房子的人的需求？更何況你也沒有辦法達到壓抑房價的可能性，在這種情況底下，我想請問一下院長，你還有沒有其他的新招？"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我剛剛有說到這個要考慮到國人的觀念，過去以擁有……"],["郭委員國文：觀念改不了啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：現在我們除了擁有之外、除了地上權之外，我們考慮內政部再研擬一個新的方式……"],["郭委員國文：什麼方式？"],["卓院長榮泰：但是首先，我希望內政部在短期內把可以興建的土地盤整出來，我們來嘗試一種新的型態，跟國人來做更多的溝通。"],["郭委員國文：就教劉部長，有沒有什麼新的型態？"],["劉部長世芳：是，剛剛院長的指示非常地正確，我們希望社宅可以達到百萬，包括剛剛講的包租代管或者是租金補貼，然後是25萬戶這樣的部分，也就是房子的數目可以在一般平價、可以接受的狀況之下，才能有效地抑制房價的高漲。"],["郭委員國文：部長，百萬的政見內容我看過，我想社會住宅這部分是要做，這變成是中長期，但短期內我想就教於院長的部分，就剛剛的管制措施當中有幾個面向，一、不就是增加稅；二、不就是增加貸款成數；三、不就是在利率裡頭做調整。在這種情況底下，用意都是讓它整個資本不會過度集中於不動產之間的一種操作模式，簡單的講，也就是讓它的交易成本或者持有成本，增加它的資金成本。針對這個部分，院長你有沒有可能再持續考量？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然透過利息跟財政的這個手段，還是有其他的考量措施。"],["郭委員國文：對，所以說……"],["卓院長榮泰：但目前我們整批在做，比較大規模在做的，需要達到一個量，就是剛剛劉部長所說的，興建社會住宅的方式。"],["郭委員國文：興建社會住宅是一個軌道，現在資本集中才是一個大的問題。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["郭委員國文：在資本集中問題很大的情況底下，如果你要透過財政手段的話，那不是房地合一2.0，還會有3.0嗎？這是其中之一嘛，或者實價登錄還有作為不足的地方，對不對？或者我們平均地權條例還在修改，還是你認為下個禮拜第六波的信用管制出來的時候要加強這個力道，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：我覺得任何的努力都應該去期待它做一個大的改變。"],["郭委員國文：這個部分我真的很希望院長把這個高房價的問題，做出一個比較專案性的思維，真的。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們已經努力在做。"],["郭委員國文：過去三年我們一直努力在做，但是我講白一點，就結果論來說，成效不符合國人的期待。"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，過去也累積了一些相當可貴的經驗。"],["郭委員國文：對，我沒有完全否認過去，因為我也參與其中。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["郭委員國文：所以我只是老實講有一點失望，沒有想到這麼多的管制措施，還是沒有它的效果，我們是不是痛定思痛來思考一下，看是不是還有其他的方式可以達到這個效果？也達到年輕人期待的效果，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["郭委員國文：好，另外一個問題，也是年輕人非常期待的問題。我先讓您看一下民眾薪資三條線，這三條線當中，我們從過往106年到112年這邊的資料統計起來，為什麼我們每次遇到所謂的通膨問題或高物價問題就受不了？其實是我們的薪水過低，所以其實我們通膨沒有那麼高，但承受能力相對比較低。過去小英政府8年期間調了8次的基本工資，從2萬1,000元調到2萬6,400元，漲幅高達25%，我們又看到過去經常性薪資的調整，其實成長了11%，但是相對而言，我們的實質薪資才成長4%左右，也就是1年之間成長不到1%，每年增加了大概532塊。拉長10年的幅度來計算，基本工資大概調了32%，總薪資的平均大概是25.9%，還有中位數的成長大概是16.6%，這我不會認為是勞動部的問題，還有包括國發會和其他部會都有相關的問題。","在這種情況底下，我們再讓院長看一張表，原因在哪裡？你看GDP的占比當中，企業的盈餘大賺，但是員工的薪資相對不漲，有漲，但漲得不多，原因在哪裡？受僱者的報酬占整個GDP的占比，日本占52.6%，美國占52.2%，南韓占52.1%，臺灣占43.9%。歹勢，這份報告是誰做的？是央行做的，不是我做的。","另外一個部分，營業額占GDP的占比，臺灣占多少？34.4%，你看，日本相對而言連我們的一半都不到，才13.1%。簡單地講，盈餘的部分，大部分的企業都攏到它身上，不願意給勞工，講白一點嘛，臺灣的企業來跟院長……剛剛院長你也說，水沒有問題，電沒有問題，土地也都沒有問題，對不對？為什麼每個企業、大財團來要的時候都是要這五個？我想郭部長非常清楚嘛，但是我要問的是，當其他國家的企業對員工比較大方的時候，我們的企業、我們的財團有比較大方嗎？很顯然，從這個GDP的占比來說，是沒有的。我希望院長除了解決企業的五缺，能不能也解決勞工期待薪資成長的這一缺？我想就教院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：提高薪資一直是政府長期努力的方向，我跟委員看的應該是同一份資料，我們的基本工資從2萬8元調漲到2萬7,470元，我們的時薪從120元提高到183元，這都是這幾年我們所努力的，當然企業……"],["郭委員國文：對，它有築底墊高的效果。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["郭委員國文：過去我們的軍公教也有拉抬的效應，但是很不好意思，中間這一群的受薪階級顯然就是沒有提高嘛。"],["卓院長榮泰：問題……"],["郭委員國文：顯然GDP的成果真的沒有下滲嘛。"],["卓院長榮泰：就是委員所說的，企業應該把更多的利潤分給員工，才能夠提高員工薪資。"],["郭委員國文：對，臺灣的企業不夠慷慨。"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我們一直在推普惠大眾的各項政策。"],["郭委員國文：臺灣的財團過於小氣，講白點就是這樣子。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們一直在推普惠大眾的各項政策。"],["郭委員國文：你遇到不夠慷慨的財團或小氣的財團來跟你要水電的時候，你應該跟它要什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：要它照顧……"],["郭委員國文：你應該先要它加薪啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：要照顧更多的人民。"],["郭委員國文：對，照顧它的所有者啦！我左邊這一位郭部長，我相信郭部長以前在企業界應該不會這麼小氣才對吧！"],["卓院長榮泰：他的企業做得很好。"],["郭部長智輝：回答委員的話，我想現在的企業應該會來照顧員工，因為現在已經找不到人，所以你的福利越好、薪資越高，就越容易招到人。"],["郭委員國文：話雖如此，但是登出來的薪資還不是很高啦！部長，依你的企業界人脈，我想有一個直接的建議，過往日本企業經團連出來的時候，安倍都跟它講說要加薪，日本現在加薪的幅度超過過去30年耶！部長，你要不要把三三會找來？院長，三三會就是臺灣的經團連嘛！請他們帶頭來加薪一下，有沒有可能？找他們來喝一下咖啡。"],["卓院長榮泰：不僅它，我們六大工商團體都會拜託他們。"],["郭委員國文：都全部找來，跟他們講一下好不好？把今年列為加薪年啦！因為我們做了很多政策工具的努力，基本工資還有包括軍公教，政府可以做的就是這些而已嘛！其他的部分就要靠私部門了，不是嗎？院長，我期待你的表現啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：是，謝謝。"],["郭委員國文：謝謝院長直接的回復。另外一個部分，院長，最近輝達熱、AMD熱，一堆啦！這個基本上都是一種迎臂效應，這種迎臂效應就像之前3奈米、2奈米，大家搶著台積電去一樣的道理，但問題是這些去的過程當中，院長，我覺得很多人都要我們台積電，但是我們台積電，我必須跟你講，我們臺灣有通過國家核心關鍵技術清單喔！是比照美國出口管制規則的EAR，畫出一個14奈米的紅線，但是這個14奈米的紅線，國外希望我們去的時候都希望先進製程，對不對？可是我們現在整個負荷得了的情況底下，在水、電的這種能源負擔這麼大的情況底下，其實嚴格來說，我們應該輸出一些成熟製程，來建立一個科技外交的可能性，一來解決我們能源上的壓力，二來可以建立整個價值同盟的外交關係，這一點你應該是贊成的吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有錯，我們國科會吳主委也一直強調，不僅是先進製程，在成熟製程我們也要讓國內的力道能夠再加強，才能夠……"],["郭委員國文：再怎麼輸出奈米數，外面的奈米數跟本國的奈米數一定奈米加1，本國的奈米數一定是在外面的奈米數奈米減1，最先進的是留在我們這邊嘛！對不對？是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員的看法跟我們吳主委的看法非常非常的一致。"],["郭委員國文：對，是這樣子，可是我們現在外面的風聲都不是14奈米以上，現在聽到的是14奈米以下耶！包括熊本的三廠、四廠都不是如此，可能要弄好喔！不是無條件的輸出，這要想清楚喔！更何況因為我的選區來自南科，這個部分請國發會劉主委把持清楚……"],["卓院長榮泰：國科會。"],["郭委員國文：主委，把持清楚。另外一個部分，部長，因為我時間有限，剩下我要請教你的部分，因為我們過往不論是爭取輝達也好、AMD也好，或者台積電2奈米去高雄也好，碰到的問題不是生產的問題，生產緊接下來就是生活的問題，過往我們把南科設置在那邊的時候，只有生產的考量，並沒有真正生活的考量，以至於交通的改善不足，公路運輸也好、軌道運輸也好、先進運輸也好，沒有一個足夠的，真的，到現在才縫縫補補、脫三落四啊！以前整個南科園區周遭的這個區域都是脫隊的狀況，地方政府才縫縫補補起來。","我想說用一個插隊的概念，我想要拜託一下院長，周遭園區統統都是新興發展區，這些新興發展區的人口越來越多，我們要留住這些人才的情況底下，生活周遭的問題要把它解決，一來住宅的問題，二來交通最大的問題，公路運輸要有一個全盤性的思維，把南科作為一個軸心，輻射性的思考。另外，還有先進運輸，包括現階段最重要的深綠線捷運路線，可以連結到現在輝達可能去的沙崙所在地以及南科這個雙核心，來做思考、來做串聯。三來還有鐵道運輸破舊不堪，包括我們的善化、永康還有官田都不夠用，都破破爛爛，是不是請交通部來弄一個全國站體的整體規劃，來作為思考、來串接先進運輸的可能？院長，拜託你能不能用插隊的思維來思考這個問題？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員這整套想法非常具有戰略觀，如果能夠跟國際大廠來做這樣詳細的說明，你所謂的沙崙、臺南一定相當具有吸引力。"],["郭委員國文：對，包括周遭還有很多生活園區，我們西北的土地比較寬廣，裡面有很多區域都要做通盤性的檢討，當要做通盤性檢討時，就要把它視為南科的生活特區，這樣鬆綁的速度會比較快一點，這要請內政部國土署來做總體規劃，也請交通部來做規劃，用插隊的思維來彌補過去特區思考下，只有生產沒有生活的思維，這有沒有可能？"],["卓院長榮泰：我會請各部會將委員所提這一段很深入的建議列為重要參考。"],["郭委員國文：拜託院長了，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝郭委員、謝謝院長。","下一位請翁委員曉玲質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":23,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-17","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","鄭天財Sra Kacaw"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-06-07"],"gazette_id":"1135401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135401_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第17次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1135401_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"153778","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153778","tool":"pyannote","id":"153778-pyannote"},"job_id":"PQUwOlSRMGkIg15p","queued_at":"2024-06-07 16:54:48","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-07 16:54:50","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153778"},{"time":"2024-06-07 16:54:51","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/91386385e8f925e27dff69fa21de29a363a4d3464892865b03adaedb4d9a025e6035e15dacbeac855ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-06-07 16:55:18","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-06-07 16:55:21","msg":"running pyannote"},{"time":"2024-06-07 16:55:35","msg":"status: 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\"end\": 912.28, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 912.28, \"end\": 912.3, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:18,410 --> 00:00:22,111\n主席,有請卓院長。請卓院長備詢。郭國文好。院長好。院長,本席對你充滿期待,特別是接連兩次執政之際三次執政,我們接下來這個內閣,延續過去內閣的政績,要如何有一些突破跟創新。是。\n\n2\n00:00:44,264 --> 00:01:13,362\n那過往其實之前的內閣做過一些努力而我在之前的這個上一屆的立委當中我們對於整個這個高房價的問題也做過許多的努力高房價的內容當中呢我們在央行的部分做了五波的信用管制不論在內政部的時候平均地權條例的部分的修改或者包括我們在財政部有兩歲房地合一2.0或者包括這個實價登錄2.0等我們做出的努力總共累積起來有10波之久\n\n3\n00:01:14,312 --> 00:01:30,942\n可是當時頗之久之後在今年初我們看到到第4季的這個價格住宅指數已經高達到136.2連創5年的整個房價的新高另外我們還看到整個1到4月的整個買賣移轉高達11.14萬棟年增31.6%創下13年來的新高簡單的講價量奇養\n\n4\n00:01:39,318 --> 00:02:05,031\n在這種價量其樣的情況底下有三高我歸結起來量高、價高還有資本集中度高而這三高當中包括央行昨天有特別提到也是三高那三高是國營不動產的販廣比例偏高房貸加土建融的壽性占比偏高房價也偏高也就是在這種情況底下我昨天問了央行\n\n5\n00:02:06,007 --> 00:02:22,686\n到底有沒有什麼新招?我們花了三年的時間施波的管制方式,房價依然飆到升高。院長昨天我請教了這一個央行的總裁有沒有新招?我想請教一下院長你有沒有新招?\n\n6\n00:02:24,554 --> 00:02:24,574\n院長\n\n7\n00:02:46,843 --> 00:03:12,301\n我相信你要回答的內容當中,我之前有做過的了解,不論是社宅也好,報住代管也好,基本上租屋市場以後替代的效果會比較好一點。可是就如你所說的,國文的觀念上希望擁有所有權,不像是地上的所有權或土地的所有權。事實上擁有土地所有權或地上的所有權有它的道理,因為它有財務槓桿的可能性,它有質押的空間,但是你有房子是完全都沒有。\n\n8\n00:03:13,246 --> 00:03:35,374\n所以說呢他不是他沒有道理但是依照目前的社會住宅我了解過他的速度呢基本上很難快的起來也就是說你沒有達到租屋者需求之外你也沒有辦法達到這個想要擁有房子的人的需求更何況你也沒有辦法達到壓抑房價的這個可能性這種情況底下我想請問一下院長你還沒有請到新招\n\n9\n00:03:35,794 --> 00:03:57,580\n所以我剛剛有說到這個要考慮到國人的觀念,過去以擁有,現在我們除了擁有之外,除了地上權之外,我們考慮內政部在研一個新的方式。首先我希望內政部在短期內把可以興建的土地盤整出來,我們來嘗試一種新的形態跟國人來做更多的工作。就叫劉部長有沒有什麼新的形態?\n\n10\n00:03:58,100 --> 00:04:27,832\n是,剛剛院長的指示非常的正確,我們希望社宅可以達到百萬,包括剛剛講的包租代管,或者是租金補貼,然後是25萬戶這樣的部分,也就是說你房子的數目可以在一般的平價可以接受的狀況之下才能有效的抑制這個房價的高漲。部長,這個百萬的這個政見內容我看過了,我想社會住宅這部分是要做,這變成中長期,但短期內我就想就教於院長的部分,就剛剛的管制措施當中有幾個面向,一呢?\n\n11\n00:04:49,039 --> 00:05:06,382\n當然透過利息跟財政的手段還是有其他的考量措施,但目前我們整批在做,比較大規模在做的,現在達到一個量,就是剛剛劉會長所說的興建社會住宅的方式。興建社會住宅是一個軌道嘛,現在資本集中財是一個大的問題嘛。\n\n12\n00:05:07,023 --> 00:05:31,543\n指紋其中大的問題的情況底下,如果說你要透過財政手段的話,那不是房地合一2.0還會有3.0嗎?這是其中之一嘛。或者呢實價登錄還有作為不足的地方,對不對?或者還是說我們平均地權條例還在修改,還是你認為啊下個禮拜第六波的管制出來的時候,第六波的信用管制出來的時候,要加強這個力道,是不是?\n\n13\n00:05:32,671 --> 00:05:32,811\n主席\n\n14\n00:05:52,819 --> 00:05:52,939\n是的﹖\n\n15\n00:06:15,024 --> 00:06:22,655\n另外一個問題也是年輕人非常期待的問題我先讓您看一下民眾薪資三條線這三條線當中我們過往從106年到112年這邊的統計起來我們每次遇到所謂的通膨問題或高物價問題\n\n16\n00:06:30,726 --> 00:06:30,746\n﹚廣告\n\n17\n00:06:52,679 --> 00:07:03,464\n但是相對而言我們實質薪資才成長4%左右也就是一年之間成長不到1%每年增加大概532塊拉長10年的幅度來計算基本工資在調了32%總薪資的平均大概25.9還有中位數的成長大概16.6這我不會認為是勞動部的問題這還有包括國發部其他人都有相關的問題\n\n18\n00:07:19,765 --> 00:07:40,903\n這種情況底下我們要看的再讓院長看一張表。原因在哪裡?你看GDP的占比當中企業的盈餘大賺但是員工相對不漲,薪資不漲。有漲,漲的不多。原因在哪裡?收估者的報酬占整個GDP的占比日本占52.6、美國占52.2、南韓占52.1\n\n19\n00:07:48,550 --> 00:08:08,048\n臺灣佔433.9%,抱歉這一份報告是誰做的?是央行做的不是我做的。另外一個部分營業額佔GDP的佔比,臺灣佔多少?34.4%,你看日本相對而言連我們一半都不到13.1%,簡單的講營業的部分大部分的企業都攏在他身上,不願意給勞工。\n\n20\n00:08:09,927 --> 00:08:31,774\n講白一點嘛,臺灣的企業來跟院長,剛剛院長你也說啊,水啊沒有問題啊,電啊沒有問題啊,對不對,土地啊都沒有問題,什麼每個企業大財團來要的時候都是要這五個。我想郭部長非常清楚嘛,但是呢,我要問的是,當其他國家的企業對員工比較大方的時候,我們的企業、我們的財團有比較大方嗎?\n\n21\n00:08:33,148 --> 00:08:48,530\n很顯然嘛從這GDP的占比來說是沒有的是沒有的那我是希望說齁那個院長你除了解決企業的無缺的時候你能不能解決勞工期待的薪資成長的這一缺我想就叫院長\n\n22\n00:08:49,687 --> 00:08:58,532\n提高薪資一直是政府長期努力的方向。我們跟委員看的應該同一份資料。我們的基本工資從20,008元調漲到27,470元。我們的時薪從120元提高到183元。這都是這幾年我們所努力到的。\n\n23\n00:09:07,716 --> 00:09:34,782\n對,它有足底墊高的效果。過去我們的軍工教育有拉抬的效應,但是很不好意思,中間這一群的壽星階級顯然就是沒有提高嘛。顯然在GDP的成果真的沒有下盛嘛。就是委員所說的企業應該把更多的利潤分給員工。對,台灣的企業不夠慷慨。所以我們一直在推普惠大眾的各項政策。我們一直在推普惠大眾的各項政策。\n\n24\n00:09:36,042 --> 00:09:38,623\n回答委員的話,我想現在的企業應該會來照顧這個員工,因為現在已經找不到人\n\n25\n00:09:59,970 --> 00:10:18,921\n所以你的這個福利越高就越容易招到人?話說是如此,但是登出來的薪資還不是很高啦。部長,以你的企業界的人脈,我想有一個直接的建議啦。過往日本企業整個這一個金團聯出來的時候,安倍都跟他講說要加薪啦。\n\n26\n00:10:20,462 --> 00:10:46,522\n現在加薪的幅度超過過去30年耶!超過過去30年耶!部長,你要不要找一下那個三三會把他找來?院長,三三會就是台灣的金團聯嘛,找來請他們帶頭來加薪一下有沒有可能?找他們來喝一下咖啡?都全部找來好不好?都跟他們講一下好不好?今年把他列為一個加薪年啊,\n\n27\n00:10:47,162 --> 00:10:53,713\n因為我們做了很多政策工具的努力基本工資還有包軍公教政府可以做得出這些而已嘛其他的部分就要靠私部門了不是嗎?\n\n28\n00:10:54,926 --> 00:11:17,034\n好,院長,我期待你的表現。另外的部分,謝謝院長的直接的回覆。另外一個部分,院長,最近這個徽達熱、AMD熱一堆,這個基本上都是一種銀幣效應。這種銀幣效應就像之前,這個3奈米、2奈米,大家搶著台積電去一樣的道理。\n\n29\n00:11:17,774 --> 00:11:40,447\n但問題是這些區的過程當中我覺得院長很多人都要我們台積電但是我們台積電我必須跟你講我們台灣有通過國家核心關鍵技術清單是比照美國出口管制規則的EAR畫出一個14奈米的紅線但是這個14奈米的紅線國外希望我們去的時候都希望先進製程\n\n30\n00:11:45,769 --> 00:12:05,746\n可是呢我們現在整個負荷得了的情況底下在水電的這種能源負擔這麼大的情況底下其實嚴格來說我們應該輸出一些成熟製程來建立一個科技外交的可能性一來解決我們的能源上的壓力二來呢可以建立這個整個價值同盟的一個外交關係這一點你應該是贊成的吧\n\n31\n00:12:06,274 --> 00:12:26,101\n沒有錯,我們國科會吳主委也一直強調,不僅是先進製程,在成熟製程我們也要讓國內的這個力道能夠再加強。在怎麼輸出外面的奈米數跟本國的奈米數,因為奈米加1嘛。本國的奈米數一定是在外面的奈米數的奈米減1嘛。所以先進是留在我們這邊嘛,對不對?\n\n32\n00:12:28,715 --> 00:12:52,347\n委員的看法跟我們吳主委的看法非常非常的一致。是這樣子,可是我們現在外面風聲的都不是14奈米以上,現在聽到是14奈米以下,包括熊本的三場四場都不是如此,可能要弄好,不是無條件的出書,這要想清楚,更何況因為我的選區來自南科,這個部分請那個國發會那個劉主委,\n\n33\n00:12:57,551 --> 00:13:04,621\n主委把持清楚另外一個部分部長因為時間有限剩下的部分我要請教你的部分\n\n34\n00:13:05,646 --> 00:13:29,282\n因為我們過往不是針對非達也好,接著AMD也好,或者台積電2奈米去高雄也好,碰到的問題不是生產的問題,生產緊接著來就生活的問題。過往我們把南科設置在那邊的時候只有生產的考量,並沒有真正生活的考量。以至於交通的改善不足,公路運輸也好,軌道運輸也好,先進運輸也好,沒有一個足夠的。\n\n35\n00:13:30,270 --> 00:13:43,857\n沒有一個足夠的,真的,到現在才縫縫補補啊,拖山蠟寺啊,以前簡直是啊,這些整個藍科區、科學園區,周遭的這區域都拖隊的狀況,地方政府才縫縫補補起來。\n\n36\n00:13:45,356 --> 00:14:09,371\n我想說用一個插隊的概念,我想拜託一下院長,周遭園區通通都是新興發展區,這些新興發展區的人口越來越多,我們要留住這些人才的情況底下,生活周遭的問題要把它解決,一來住宅的問題,二來交通最大的問題,公路運輸要有一個全盤性的思維,把南科做為一個著心,輻射性的思考,\n\n37\n00:14:10,091 --> 00:14:25,191\n另外還有先進運輸包括現階段最重要的深綠線的一個捷運路線可以連結到現在揮打可能區的沙崙所在地以及南科這個雙核心的做思考來做串聯。三來還有包括\n\n38\n00:14:25,652 --> 00:14:26,772\n拜託你,你不用插隊的思維來思考這個問題。\n\n39\n00:14:47,301 --> 00:15:11,380\n委員這整套的想法非常具有戰略觀,我想如果能夠跟國際的大廠來做這樣詳細的說明,你所謂的沙崙台南一定是相當具有吸引力的。對,還有包括周遭還有很多生活園區啊,我們的西北土地比較寬廣嘛,還有它裡頭有很多區域都要做一些通盤性的檢討,當通盤性的檢討的時候就應該把它視為南科的生活特區嘛。\n\n40\n00:15:12,060 --> 00:15:12,300\n拜託院長了,謝謝。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n18410\t22111\t主席,有請卓院長。 請卓院長備詢。郭國文好。 院長好。 院長,本席對你充滿期待,特別是接連兩次執政之際三次執政,我們接下來這個內閣,延續過去內閣的政績,要如何有一些突破跟創新。 是。\n44264\t73362\t那過往其實之前的內閣做過一些努力而我在之前的這個上一屆的立委當中我們對於整個這個高房價的問題也做過許多的努力高房價的內容當中呢我們在央行的部分做了五波的信用管制不論在內政部的時候平均地權條例的部分的修改或者包括我們在財政部有兩歲房地合一2.0或者包括這個實價登錄2.0等我們做出的努力總共累積起來有10波之久\n74312\t90942\t可是當時頗之久之後在今年初我們看到到第4季的這個價格住宅指數已經高達到136.2連創5年的整個房價的新高另外我們還看到整個1到4月的整個買賣移轉高達11.14萬棟年增31.6%創下13年來的新高簡單的講價量奇養\n99318\t125031\t在這種價量其樣的情況底下有三高我歸結起來量高、價高還有資本集中度高而這三高當中包括央行昨天有特別提到也是三高那三高是國營不動產的販廣比例偏高房貸加土建融的壽性占比偏高房價也偏高也就是在這種情況底下我昨天問了央行\n126007\t142686\t到底有沒有什麼新招?我們花了三年的時間施波的管制方式,房價依然飆到升高。院長昨天我請教了這一個央行的總裁有沒有新招?我想請教一下院長你有沒有新招?\n144554\t144574\t院長\n166843\t192301\t我相信你要回答的內容當中,我之前有做過的了解,不論是社宅也好,報住代管也好,基本上租屋市場以後替代的效果會比較好一點。可是就如你所說的,國文的觀念上希望擁有所有權,不像是地上的所有權或土地的所有權。事實上擁有土地所有權或地上的所有權有它的道理,因為它有財務槓桿的可能性,它有質押的空間,但是你有房子是完全都沒有。\n193246\t215374\t所以說呢他不是他沒有道理但是依照目前的社會住宅我了解過他的速度呢基本上很難快的起來也就是說你沒有達到租屋者需求之外你也沒有辦法達到這個想要擁有房子的人的需求更何況你也沒有辦法達到壓抑房價的這個可能性這種情況底下我想請問一下院長你還沒有請到新招\n215794\t237580\t所以我剛剛有說到這個要考慮到國人的觀念,過去以擁有,現在我們除了擁有之外,除了地上權之外,我們考慮內政部在研一個新的方式。首先我希望內政部在短期內把可以興建的土地盤整出來,我們來嘗試一種新的形態跟國人來做更多的工作。 就叫劉部長有沒有什麼新的形態?\n238100\t267832\t是,剛剛院長的指示非常的正確,我們希望社宅可以達到百萬,包括剛剛講的包租代管,或者是租金補貼,然後是25萬戶這樣的部分,也就是說你房子的數目可以在一般的平價可以接受的狀況之下才能有效的抑制這個房價的高漲。部長,這個百萬的這個政見內容我看過了,我想社會住宅這部分是要做,這變成中長期,但短期內我就想就教於院長的部分,就剛剛的管制措施當中有幾個面向,一呢?\n268012\t288131\t議員﹗\n289039\t306382\t當然透過利息跟財政的手段還是有其他的考量措施,但目前我們整批在做,比較大規模在做的,現在達到一個量,就是剛剛劉會長所說的興建社會住宅的方式。興建社會住宅是一個軌道嘛,現在資本集中財是一個大的問題嘛。\n307023\t331543\t指紋其中大的問題的情況底下,如果說你要透過財政手段的話,那不是房地合一2.0還會有3.0嗎?這是其中之一嘛。或者呢實價登錄還有作為不足的地方,對不對?或者還是說我們平均地權條例還在修改,還是你認為啊下個禮拜第六波的管制出來的時候,第六波的信用管制出來的時候,要加強這個力道,是不是?\n332671\t332811\t主席\n352819\t352939\t是的﹖\n375024\t382655\t另外一個問題也是年輕人非常期待的問題我先讓您看一下民眾薪資三條線這三條線當中我們過往從106年到112年這邊的統計起來我們每次遇到所謂的通膨問題或高物價問題\n390726\t390746\t﹚廣告\n412679\t423464\t但是相對而言我們實質薪資才成長4%左右也就是一年之間成長不到1%每年增加大概532塊拉長10年的幅度來計算基本工資在調了32%總薪資的平均大概25.9還有中位數的成長大概16.6這我不會認為是勞動部的問題這還有包括國發部其他人都有相關的問題\n439765\t460903\t這種情況底下我們要看的再讓院長看一張表。原因在哪裡?你看GDP的占比當中企業的盈餘大賺但是員工相對不漲,薪資不漲。有漲,漲的不多。原因在哪裡?收估者的報酬占整個GDP的占比日本占52.6、美國占52.2、南韓占52.1\n468550\t488048\t臺灣佔433.9%,抱歉這一份報告是誰做的?是央行做的不是我做的。另外一個部分營業額佔GDP的佔比,臺灣佔多少?34.4%,你看日本相對而言連我們一半都不到13.1%,簡單的講營業的部分大部分的企業都攏在他身上,不願意給勞工。\n489927\t511774\t講白一點嘛,臺灣的企業來跟院長,剛剛院長你也說啊,水啊沒有問題啊,電啊沒有問題啊,對不對,土地啊都沒有問題,什麼每個企業大財團來要的時候都是要這五個。我想郭部長非常清楚嘛,但是呢,我要問的是,當其他國家的企業對員工比較大方的時候,我們的企業、我們的財團有比較大方嗎?\n513148\t528530\t很顯然嘛從這GDP的占比來說是沒有的是沒有的那我是希望說齁那個院長你除了解決企業的無缺的時候你能不能解決勞工期待的薪資成長的這一缺我想就叫院長\n529687\t538532\t提高薪資一直是政府長期努力的方向。我們跟委員看的應該同一份資料。我們的基本工資從20,008元調漲到27,470元。我們的時薪從120元提高到183元。這都是這幾年我們所努力到的。\n547716\t574782\t對,它有足底墊高的效果。過去我們的軍工教育有拉抬的效應,但是很不好意思,中間這一群的壽星階級顯然就是沒有提高嘛。顯然在GDP的成果真的沒有下盛嘛。就是委員所說的企業應該把更多的利潤分給員工。對,台灣的企業不夠慷慨。所以我們一直在推普惠大眾的各項政策。我們一直在推普惠大眾的各項政策。\n576042\t578623\t回答委員的話,我想現在的企業應該會來照顧這個員工,因為現在已經找不到人\n599970\t618921\t所以你的這個福利越高就越容易招到人?話說是如此,但是登出來的薪資還不是很高啦。部長,以你的企業界的人脈,我想有一個直接的建議啦。過往日本企業整個這一個金團聯出來的時候,安倍都跟他講說要加薪啦。\n620462\t646522\t現在加薪的幅度超過過去30年耶!超過過去30年耶!部長,你要不要找一下那個三三會把他找來?院長,三三會就是台灣的金團聯嘛,找來請他們帶頭來加薪一下有沒有可能?找他們來喝一下咖啡?都全部找來好不好?都跟他們講一下好不好?今年把他列為一個加薪年啊,\n647162\t653713\t因為我們做了很多政策工具的努力基本工資還有包軍公教政府可以做得出這些而已嘛其他的部分就要靠私部門了不是嗎?\n654926\t677034\t好,院長,我期待你的表現。另外的部分,謝謝院長的直接的回覆。另外一個部分,院長,最近這個徽達熱、AMD熱一堆,這個基本上都是一種銀幣效應。這種銀幣效應就像之前,這個3奈米、2奈米,大家搶著台積電去一樣的道理。\n677774\t700447\t但問題是這些區的過程當中我覺得院長很多人都要我們台積電但是我們台積電我必須跟你講我們台灣有通過國家核心關鍵技術清單是比照美國出口管制規則的EAR畫出一個14奈米的紅線但是這個14奈米的紅線國外希望我們去的時候都希望先進製程\n705769\t725746\t可是呢我們現在整個負荷得了的情況底下在水電的這種能源負擔這麼大的情況底下其實嚴格來說我們應該輸出一些成熟製程來建立一個科技外交的可能性一來解決我們的能源上的壓力二來呢可以建立這個整個價值同盟的一個外交關係這一點你應該是贊成的吧\n726274\t746101\t沒有錯,我們國科會吳主委也一直強調,不僅是先進製程,在成熟製程我們也要讓國內的這個力道能夠再加強。在怎麼輸出外面的奈米數跟本國的奈米數,因為奈米加1嘛。本國的奈米數一定是在外面的奈米數的奈米減1嘛。所以先進是留在我們這邊嘛,對不對?\n748715\t772347\t委員的看法跟我們吳主委的看法非常非常的一致。是這樣子,可是我們現在外面風聲的都不是14奈米以上,現在聽到是14奈米以下,包括熊本的三場四場都不是如此,可能要弄好,不是無條件的出書,這要想清楚,更何況因為我的選區來自南科,這個部分請那個國發會那個劉主委,\n777551\t784621\t主委把持清楚另外一個部分部長因為時間有限剩下的部分我要請教你的部分\n785646\t809282\t因為我們過往不是針對非達也好,接著AMD也好,或者台積電2奈米去高雄也好,碰到的問題不是生產的問題,生產緊接著來就生活的問題。過往我們把南科設置在那邊的時候只有生產的考量,並沒有真正生活的考量。以至於交通的改善不足,公路運輸也好,軌道運輸也好,先進運輸也好,沒有一個足夠的。\n810270\t823857\t沒有一個足夠的,真的,到現在才縫縫補補啊,拖山蠟寺啊,以前簡直是啊,這些整個藍科區、科學園區,周遭的這區域都拖隊的狀況,地方政府才縫縫補補起來。\n825356\t849371\t我想說用一個插隊的概念,我想拜託一下院長,周遭園區通通都是新興發展區,這些新興發展區的人口越來越多,我們要留住這些人才的情況底下,生活周遭的問題要把它解決,一來住宅的問題,二來交通最大的問題,公路運輸要有一個全盤性的思維,把南科做為一個著心,輻射性的思考,\n850091\t865191\t另外還有先進運輸包括現階段最重要的深綠線的一個捷運路線可以連結到現在揮打可能區的沙崙所在地以及南科這個雙核心的做思考來做串聯。三來還有包括\n865652\t866772\t拜託你,你不用插隊的思維來思考這個問題。\n887301\t911380\t委員這整套的想法非常具有戰略觀,我想如果能夠跟國際的大廠來做這樣詳細的說明,你所謂的沙崙台南一定是相當具有吸引力的。對,還有包括周遭還有很多生活園區啊,我們的西北土地比較寬廣嘛,還有它裡頭有很多區域都要做一些通盤性的檢討,當通盤性的檢討的時候就應該把它視為南科的生活特區嘛。\n912060\t912300\t拜託院長了,謝謝。\n","txt":"主席,有請卓院長。 請卓院長備詢。郭國文好。 院長好。 院長,本席對你充滿期待,特別是接連兩次執政之際三次執政,我們接下來這個內閣,延續過去內閣的政績,要如何有一些突破跟創新。 是。\n那過往其實之前的內閣做過一些努力而我在之前的這個上一屆的立委當中我們對於整個這個高房價的問題也做過許多的努力高房價的內容當中呢我們在央行的部分做了五波的信用管制不論在內政部的時候平均地權條例的部分的修改或者包括我們在財政部有兩歲房地合一2.0或者包括這個實價登錄2.0等我們做出的努力總共累積起來有10波之久\n可是當時頗之久之後在今年初我們看到到第4季的這個價格住宅指數已經高達到136.2連創5年的整個房價的新高另外我們還看到整個1到4月的整個買賣移轉高達11.14萬棟年增31.6%創下13年來的新高簡單的講價量奇養\n在這種價量其樣的情況底下有三高我歸結起來量高、價高還有資本集中度高而這三高當中包括央行昨天有特別提到也是三高那三高是國營不動產的販廣比例偏高房貸加土建融的壽性占比偏高房價也偏高也就是在這種情況底下我昨天問了央行\n到底有沒有什麼新招?我們花了三年的時間施波的管制方式,房價依然飆到升高。院長昨天我請教了這一個央行的總裁有沒有新招?我想請教一下院長你有沒有新招?\n院長\n我相信你要回答的內容當中,我之前有做過的了解,不論是社宅也好,報住代管也好,基本上租屋市場以後替代的效果會比較好一點。可是就如你所說的,國文的觀念上希望擁有所有權,不像是地上的所有權或土地的所有權。事實上擁有土地所有權或地上的所有權有它的道理,因為它有財務槓桿的可能性,它有質押的空間,但是你有房子是完全都沒有。\n所以說呢他不是他沒有道理但是依照目前的社會住宅我了解過他的速度呢基本上很難快的起來也就是說你沒有達到租屋者需求之外你也沒有辦法達到這個想要擁有房子的人的需求更何況你也沒有辦法達到壓抑房價的這個可能性這種情況底下我想請問一下院長你還沒有請到新招\n所以我剛剛有說到這個要考慮到國人的觀念,過去以擁有,現在我們除了擁有之外,除了地上權之外,我們考慮內政部在研一個新的方式。首先我希望內政部在短期內把可以興建的土地盤整出來,我們來嘗試一種新的形態跟國人來做更多的工作。 就叫劉部長有沒有什麼新的形態?\n是,剛剛院長的指示非常的正確,我們希望社宅可以達到百萬,包括剛剛講的包租代管,或者是租金補貼,然後是25萬戶這樣的部分,也就是說你房子的數目可以在一般的平價可以接受的狀況之下才能有效的抑制這個房價的高漲。部長,這個百萬的這個政見內容我看過了,我想社會住宅這部分是要做,這變成中長期,但短期內我就想就教於院長的部分,就剛剛的管制措施當中有幾個面向,一呢?\n議員﹗\n當然透過利息跟財政的手段還是有其他的考量措施,但目前我們整批在做,比較大規模在做的,現在達到一個量,就是剛剛劉會長所說的興建社會住宅的方式。興建社會住宅是一個軌道嘛,現在資本集中財是一個大的問題嘛。\n指紋其中大的問題的情況底下,如果說你要透過財政手段的話,那不是房地合一2.0還會有3.0嗎?這是其中之一嘛。或者呢實價登錄還有作為不足的地方,對不對?或者還是說我們平均地權條例還在修改,還是你認為啊下個禮拜第六波的管制出來的時候,第六波的信用管制出來的時候,要加強這個力道,是不是?\n主席\n是的﹖\n另外一個問題也是年輕人非常期待的問題我先讓您看一下民眾薪資三條線這三條線當中我們過往從106年到112年這邊的統計起來我們每次遇到所謂的通膨問題或高物價問題\n﹚廣告\n但是相對而言我們實質薪資才成長4%左右也就是一年之間成長不到1%每年增加大概532塊拉長10年的幅度來計算基本工資在調了32%總薪資的平均大概25.9還有中位數的成長大概16.6這我不會認為是勞動部的問題這還有包括國發部其他人都有相關的問題\n這種情況底下我們要看的再讓院長看一張表。原因在哪裡?你看GDP的占比當中企業的盈餘大賺但是員工相對不漲,薪資不漲。有漲,漲的不多。原因在哪裡?收估者的報酬占整個GDP的占比日本占52.6、美國占52.2、南韓占52.1\n臺灣佔433.9%,抱歉這一份報告是誰做的?是央行做的不是我做的。另外一個部分營業額佔GDP的佔比,臺灣佔多少?34.4%,你看日本相對而言連我們一半都不到13.1%,簡單的講營業的部分大部分的企業都攏在他身上,不願意給勞工。\n講白一點嘛,臺灣的企業來跟院長,剛剛院長你也說啊,水啊沒有問題啊,電啊沒有問題啊,對不對,土地啊都沒有問題,什麼每個企業大財團來要的時候都是要這五個。我想郭部長非常清楚嘛,但是呢,我要問的是,當其他國家的企業對員工比較大方的時候,我們的企業、我們的財團有比較大方嗎?\n很顯然嘛從這GDP的占比來說是沒有的是沒有的那我是希望說齁那個院長你除了解決企業的無缺的時候你能不能解決勞工期待的薪資成長的這一缺我想就叫院長\n提高薪資一直是政府長期努力的方向。我們跟委員看的應該同一份資料。我們的基本工資從20,008元調漲到27,470元。我們的時薪從120元提高到183元。這都是這幾年我們所努力到的。\n對,它有足底墊高的效果。過去我們的軍工教育有拉抬的效應,但是很不好意思,中間這一群的壽星階級顯然就是沒有提高嘛。顯然在GDP的成果真的沒有下盛嘛。就是委員所說的企業應該把更多的利潤分給員工。對,台灣的企業不夠慷慨。所以我們一直在推普惠大眾的各項政策。我們一直在推普惠大眾的各項政策。\n回答委員的話,我想現在的企業應該會來照顧這個員工,因為現在已經找不到人\n所以你的這個福利越高就越容易招到人?話說是如此,但是登出來的薪資還不是很高啦。部長,以你的企業界的人脈,我想有一個直接的建議啦。過往日本企業整個這一個金團聯出來的時候,安倍都跟他講說要加薪啦。\n現在加薪的幅度超過過去30年耶!超過過去30年耶!部長,你要不要找一下那個三三會把他找來?院長,三三會就是台灣的金團聯嘛,找來請他們帶頭來加薪一下有沒有可能?找他們來喝一下咖啡?都全部找來好不好?都跟他們講一下好不好?今年把他列為一個加薪年啊,\n因為我們做了很多政策工具的努力基本工資還有包軍公教政府可以做得出這些而已嘛其他的部分就要靠私部門了不是嗎?\n好,院長,我期待你的表現。另外的部分,謝謝院長的直接的回覆。另外一個部分,院長,最近這個徽達熱、AMD熱一堆,這個基本上都是一種銀幣效應。這種銀幣效應就像之前,這個3奈米、2奈米,大家搶著台積電去一樣的道理。\n但問題是這些區的過程當中我覺得院長很多人都要我們台積電但是我們台積電我必須跟你講我們台灣有通過國家核心關鍵技術清單是比照美國出口管制規則的EAR畫出一個14奈米的紅線但是這個14奈米的紅線國外希望我們去的時候都希望先進製程\n可是呢我們現在整個負荷得了的情況底下在水電的這種能源負擔這麼大的情況底下其實嚴格來說我們應該輸出一些成熟製程來建立一個科技外交的可能性一來解決我們的能源上的壓力二來呢可以建立這個整個價值同盟的一個外交關係這一點你應該是贊成的吧\n沒有錯,我們國科會吳主委也一直強調,不僅是先進製程,在成熟製程我們也要讓國內的這個力道能夠再加強。在怎麼輸出外面的奈米數跟本國的奈米數,因為奈米加1嘛。本國的奈米數一定是在外面的奈米數的奈米減1嘛。所以先進是留在我們這邊嘛,對不對?\n委員的看法跟我們吳主委的看法非常非常的一致。是這樣子,可是我們現在外面風聲的都不是14奈米以上,現在聽到是14奈米以下,包括熊本的三場四場都不是如此,可能要弄好,不是無條件的出書,這要想清楚,更何況因為我的選區來自南科,這個部分請那個國發會那個劉主委,\n主委把持清楚另外一個部分部長因為時間有限剩下的部分我要請教你的部分\n因為我們過往不是針對非達也好,接著AMD也好,或者台積電2奈米去高雄也好,碰到的問題不是生產的問題,生產緊接著來就生活的問題。過往我們把南科設置在那邊的時候只有生產的考量,並沒有真正生活的考量。以至於交通的改善不足,公路運輸也好,軌道運輸也好,先進運輸也好,沒有一個足夠的。\n沒有一個足夠的,真的,到現在才縫縫補補啊,拖山蠟寺啊,以前簡直是啊,這些整個藍科區、科學園區,周遭的這區域都拖隊的狀況,地方政府才縫縫補補起來。\n我想說用一個插隊的概念,我想拜託一下院長,周遭園區通通都是新興發展區,這些新興發展區的人口越來越多,我們要留住這些人才的情況底下,生活周遭的問題要把它解決,一來住宅的問題,二來交通最大的問題,公路運輸要有一個全盤性的思維,把南科做為一個著心,輻射性的思考,\n另外還有先進運輸包括現階段最重要的深綠線的一個捷運路線可以連結到現在揮打可能區的沙崙所在地以及南科這個雙核心的做思考來做串聯。三來還有包括\n拜託你,你不用插隊的思維來思考這個問題。\n委員這整套的想法非常具有戰略觀,我想如果能夠跟國際的大廠來做這樣詳細的說明,你所謂的沙崙台南一定是相當具有吸引力的。對,還有包括周遭還有很多生活園區啊,我們的西北土地比較寬廣嘛,還有它裡頭有很多區域都要做一些通盤性的檢討,當通盤性的檢討的時候就應該把它視為南科的生活特區嘛。\n拜託院長了,謝謝。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:18.410 --> 00:22.111\n主席,有請卓院長。請卓院長備詢。郭國文好。院長好。院長,本席對你充滿期待,特別是接連兩次執政之際三次執政,我們接下來這個內閣,延續過去內閣的政績,要如何有一些突破跟創新。是。\n\n00:44.264 --> 01:13.362\n那過往其實之前的內閣做過一些努力而我在之前的這個上一屆的立委當中我們對於整個這個高房價的問題也做過許多的努力高房價的內容當中呢我們在央行的部分做了五波的信用管制不論在內政部的時候平均地權條例的部分的修改或者包括我們在財政部有兩歲房地合一2.0或者包括這個實價登錄2.0等我們做出的努力總共累積起來有10波之久\n\n01:14.312 --> 01:30.942\n可是當時頗之久之後在今年初我們看到到第4季的這個價格住宅指數已經高達到136.2連創5年的整個房價的新高另外我們還看到整個1到4月的整個買賣移轉高達11.14萬棟年增31.6%創下13年來的新高簡單的講價量奇養\n\n01:39.318 --> 02:05.031\n在這種價量其樣的情況底下有三高我歸結起來量高、價高還有資本集中度高而這三高當中包括央行昨天有特別提到也是三高那三高是國營不動產的販廣比例偏高房貸加土建融的壽性占比偏高房價也偏高也就是在這種情況底下我昨天問了央行\n\n02:06.007 --> 02:22.686\n到底有沒有什麼新招?我們花了三年的時間施波的管制方式,房價依然飆到升高。院長昨天我請教了這一個央行的總裁有沒有新招?我想請教一下院長你有沒有新招?\n\n02:24.554 --> 02:24.574\n院長\n\n02:46.843 --> 03:12.301\n我相信你要回答的內容當中,我之前有做過的了解,不論是社宅也好,報住代管也好,基本上租屋市場以後替代的效果會比較好一點。可是就如你所說的,國文的觀念上希望擁有所有權,不像是地上的所有權或土地的所有權。事實上擁有土地所有權或地上的所有權有它的道理,因為它有財務槓桿的可能性,它有質押的空間,但是你有房子是完全都沒有。\n\n03:13.246 --> 03:35.374\n所以說呢他不是他沒有道理但是依照目前的社會住宅我了解過他的速度呢基本上很難快的起來也就是說你沒有達到租屋者需求之外你也沒有辦法達到這個想要擁有房子的人的需求更何況你也沒有辦法達到壓抑房價的這個可能性這種情況底下我想請問一下院長你還沒有請到新招\n\n03:35.794 --> 03:57.580\n所以我剛剛有說到這個要考慮到國人的觀念,過去以擁有,現在我們除了擁有之外,除了地上權之外,我們考慮內政部在研一個新的方式。首先我希望內政部在短期內把可以興建的土地盤整出來,我們來嘗試一種新的形態跟國人來做更多的工作。就叫劉部長有沒有什麼新的形態?\n\n03:58.100 --> 04:27.832\n是,剛剛院長的指示非常的正確,我們希望社宅可以達到百萬,包括剛剛講的包租代管,或者是租金補貼,然後是25萬戶這樣的部分,也就是說你房子的數目可以在一般的平價可以接受的狀況之下才能有效的抑制這個房價的高漲。部長,這個百萬的這個政見內容我看過了,我想社會住宅這部分是要做,這變成中長期,但短期內我就想就教於院長的部分,就剛剛的管制措施當中有幾個面向,一呢?\n\n04:49.039 --> 05:06.382\n當然透過利息跟財政的手段還是有其他的考量措施,但目前我們整批在做,比較大規模在做的,現在達到一個量,就是剛剛劉會長所說的興建社會住宅的方式。興建社會住宅是一個軌道嘛,現在資本集中財是一個大的問題嘛。\n\n05:07.023 --> 05:31.543\n指紋其中大的問題的情況底下,如果說你要透過財政手段的話,那不是房地合一2.0還會有3.0嗎?這是其中之一嘛。或者呢實價登錄還有作為不足的地方,對不對?或者還是說我們平均地權條例還在修改,還是你認為啊下個禮拜第六波的管制出來的時候,第六波的信用管制出來的時候,要加強這個力道,是不是?\n\n05:32.671 --> 05:32.811\n主席\n\n05:52.819 --> 05:52.939\n是的﹖\n\n06:15.024 --> 06:22.655\n另外一個問題也是年輕人非常期待的問題我先讓您看一下民眾薪資三條線這三條線當中我們過往從106年到112年這邊的統計起來我們每次遇到所謂的通膨問題或高物價問題\n\n06:30.726 --> 06:30.746\n﹚廣告\n\n06:52.679 --> 07:03.464\n但是相對而言我們實質薪資才成長4%左右也就是一年之間成長不到1%每年增加大概532塊拉長10年的幅度來計算基本工資在調了32%總薪資的平均大概25.9還有中位數的成長大概16.6這我不會認為是勞動部的問題這還有包括國發部其他人都有相關的問題\n\n07:19.765 --> 07:40.903\n這種情況底下我們要看的再讓院長看一張表。原因在哪裡?你看GDP的占比當中企業的盈餘大賺但是員工相對不漲,薪資不漲。有漲,漲的不多。原因在哪裡?收估者的報酬占整個GDP的占比日本占52.6、美國占52.2、南韓占52.1\n\n07:48.550 --> 08:08.048\n臺灣佔433.9%,抱歉這一份報告是誰做的?是央行做的不是我做的。另外一個部分營業額佔GDP的佔比,臺灣佔多少?34.4%,你看日本相對而言連我們一半都不到13.1%,簡單的講營業的部分大部分的企業都攏在他身上,不願意給勞工。\n\n08:09.927 --> 08:31.774\n講白一點嘛,臺灣的企業來跟院長,剛剛院長你也說啊,水啊沒有問題啊,電啊沒有問題啊,對不對,土地啊都沒有問題,什麼每個企業大財團來要的時候都是要這五個。我想郭部長非常清楚嘛,但是呢,我要問的是,當其他國家的企業對員工比較大方的時候,我們的企業、我們的財團有比較大方嗎?\n\n08:33.148 --> 08:48.530\n很顯然嘛從這GDP的占比來說是沒有的是沒有的那我是希望說齁那個院長你除了解決企業的無缺的時候你能不能解決勞工期待的薪資成長的這一缺我想就叫院長\n\n08:49.687 --> 08:58.532\n提高薪資一直是政府長期努力的方向。我們跟委員看的應該同一份資料。我們的基本工資從20,008元調漲到27,470元。我們的時薪從120元提高到183元。這都是這幾年我們所努力到的。\n\n09:07.716 --> 09:34.782\n對,它有足底墊高的效果。過去我們的軍工教育有拉抬的效應,但是很不好意思,中間這一群的壽星階級顯然就是沒有提高嘛。顯然在GDP的成果真的沒有下盛嘛。就是委員所說的企業應該把更多的利潤分給員工。對,台灣的企業不夠慷慨。所以我們一直在推普惠大眾的各項政策。我們一直在推普惠大眾的各項政策。\n\n09:36.042 --> 09:38.623\n回答委員的話,我想現在的企業應該會來照顧這個員工,因為現在已經找不到人\n\n09:59.970 --> 10:18.921\n所以你的這個福利越高就越容易招到人?話說是如此,但是登出來的薪資還不是很高啦。部長,以你的企業界的人脈,我想有一個直接的建議啦。過往日本企業整個這一個金團聯出來的時候,安倍都跟他講說要加薪啦。\n\n10:20.462 --> 10:46.522\n現在加薪的幅度超過過去30年耶!超過過去30年耶!部長,你要不要找一下那個三三會把他找來?院長,三三會就是台灣的金團聯嘛,找來請他們帶頭來加薪一下有沒有可能?找他們來喝一下咖啡?都全部找來好不好?都跟他們講一下好不好?今年把他列為一個加薪年啊,\n\n10:47.162 --> 10:53.713\n因為我們做了很多政策工具的努力基本工資還有包軍公教政府可以做得出這些而已嘛其他的部分就要靠私部門了不是嗎?\n\n10:54.926 --> 11:17.034\n好,院長,我期待你的表現。另外的部分,謝謝院長的直接的回覆。另外一個部分,院長,最近這個徽達熱、AMD熱一堆,這個基本上都是一種銀幣效應。這種銀幣效應就像之前,這個3奈米、2奈米,大家搶著台積電去一樣的道理。\n\n11:17.774 --> 11:40.447\n但問題是這些區的過程當中我覺得院長很多人都要我們台積電但是我們台積電我必須跟你講我們台灣有通過國家核心關鍵技術清單是比照美國出口管制規則的EAR畫出一個14奈米的紅線但是這個14奈米的紅線國外希望我們去的時候都希望先進製程\n\n11:45.769 --> 12:05.746\n可是呢我們現在整個負荷得了的情況底下在水電的這種能源負擔這麼大的情況底下其實嚴格來說我們應該輸出一些成熟製程來建立一個科技外交的可能性一來解決我們的能源上的壓力二來呢可以建立這個整個價值同盟的一個外交關係這一點你應該是贊成的吧\n\n12:06.274 --> 12:26.101\n沒有錯,我們國科會吳主委也一直強調,不僅是先進製程,在成熟製程我們也要讓國內的這個力道能夠再加強。在怎麼輸出外面的奈米數跟本國的奈米數,因為奈米加1嘛。本國的奈米數一定是在外面的奈米數的奈米減1嘛。所以先進是留在我們這邊嘛,對不對?\n\n12:28.715 --> 12:52.347\n委員的看法跟我們吳主委的看法非常非常的一致。是這樣子,可是我們現在外面風聲的都不是14奈米以上,現在聽到是14奈米以下,包括熊本的三場四場都不是如此,可能要弄好,不是無條件的出書,這要想清楚,更何況因為我的選區來自南科,這個部分請那個國發會那個劉主委,\n\n12:57.551 --> 13:04.621\n主委把持清楚另外一個部分部長因為時間有限剩下的部分我要請教你的部分\n\n13:05.646 --> 13:29.282\n因為我們過往不是針對非達也好,接著AMD也好,或者台積電2奈米去高雄也好,碰到的問題不是生產的問題,生產緊接著來就生活的問題。過往我們把南科設置在那邊的時候只有生產的考量,並沒有真正生活的考量。以至於交通的改善不足,公路運輸也好,軌道運輸也好,先進運輸也好,沒有一個足夠的。\n\n13:30.270 --> 13:43.857\n沒有一個足夠的,真的,到現在才縫縫補補啊,拖山蠟寺啊,以前簡直是啊,這些整個藍科區、科學園區,周遭的這區域都拖隊的狀況,地方政府才縫縫補補起來。\n\n13:45.356 --> 14:09.371\n我想說用一個插隊的概念,我想拜託一下院長,周遭園區通通都是新興發展區,這些新興發展區的人口越來越多,我們要留住這些人才的情況底下,生活周遭的問題要把它解決,一來住宅的問題,二來交通最大的問題,公路運輸要有一個全盤性的思維,把南科做為一個著心,輻射性的思考,\n\n14:10.091 --> 14:25.191\n另外還有先進運輸包括現階段最重要的深綠線的一個捷運路線可以連結到現在揮打可能區的沙崙所在地以及南科這個雙核心的做思考來做串聯。三來還有包括\n\n14:25.652 --> 14:26.772\n拜託你,你不用插隊的思維來思考這個問題。\n\n14:47.301 --> 15:11.380\n委員這整套的想法非常具有戰略觀,我想如果能夠跟國際的大廠來做這樣詳細的說明,你所謂的沙崙台南一定是相當具有吸引力的。對,還有包括周遭還有很多生活園區啊,我們的西北土地比較寬廣嘛,還有它裡頭有很多區域都要做一些通盤性的檢討,當通盤性的檢討的時候就應該把它視為南科的生活特區嘛。\n\n15:12.060 --> 15:12.300\n拜託院長了,謝謝。\n\n","segments":[{"start":18.41,"end":22.111,"text":"主席,有請卓院長。 請卓院長備詢。郭國文好。 院長好。 院長,本席對你充滿期待,特別是接連兩次執政之際三次執政,我們接下來這個內閣,延續過去內閣的政績,要如何有一些突破跟創新。 是。"},{"start":44.264,"end":73.362,"text":"那過往其實之前的內閣做過一些努力而我在之前的這個上一屆的立委當中我們對於整個這個高房價的問題也做過許多的努力高房價的內容當中呢我們在央行的部分做了五波的信用管制不論在內政部的時候平均地權條例的部分的修改或者包括我們在財政部有兩歲房地合一2.0或者包括這個實價登錄2.0等我們做出的努力總共累積起來有10波之久"},{"start":74.312,"end":90.942,"text":"可是當時頗之久之後在今年初我們看到到第4季的這個價格住宅指數已經高達到136.2連創5年的整個房價的新高另外我們還看到整個1到4月的整個買賣移轉高達11.14萬棟年增31.6%創下13年來的新高簡單的講價量奇養"},{"start":99.318,"end":125.031,"text":"在這種價量其樣的情況底下有三高我歸結起來量高、價高還有資本集中度高而這三高當中包括央行昨天有特別提到也是三高那三高是國營不動產的販廣比例偏高房貸加土建融的壽性占比偏高房價也偏高也就是在這種情況底下我昨天問了央行"},{"start":126.007,"end":142.686,"text":"到底有沒有什麼新招?我們花了三年的時間施波的管制方式,房價依然飆到升高。院長昨天我請教了這一個央行的總裁有沒有新招?我想請教一下院長你有沒有新招?"},{"start":144.554,"end":144.574,"text":"院長"},{"start":166.843,"end":192.301,"text":"我相信你要回答的內容當中,我之前有做過的了解,不論是社宅也好,報住代管也好,基本上租屋市場以後替代的效果會比較好一點。可是就如你所說的,國文的觀念上希望擁有所有權,不像是地上的所有權或土地的所有權。事實上擁有土地所有權或地上的所有權有它的道理,因為它有財務槓桿的可能性,它有質押的空間,但是你有房子是完全都沒有。"},{"start":193.246,"end":215.374,"text":"所以說呢他不是他沒有道理但是依照目前的社會住宅我了解過他的速度呢基本上很難快的起來也就是說你沒有達到租屋者需求之外你也沒有辦法達到這個想要擁有房子的人的需求更何況你也沒有辦法達到壓抑房價的這個可能性這種情況底下我想請問一下院長你還沒有請到新招"},{"start":215.794,"end":237.58,"text":"所以我剛剛有說到這個要考慮到國人的觀念,過去以擁有,現在我們除了擁有之外,除了地上權之外,我們考慮內政部在研一個新的方式。首先我希望內政部在短期內把可以興建的土地盤整出來,我們來嘗試一種新的形態跟國人來做更多的工作。 就叫劉部長有沒有什麼新的形態?"},{"start":238.1,"end":267.832,"text":"是,剛剛院長的指示非常的正確,我們希望社宅可以達到百萬,包括剛剛講的包租代管,或者是租金補貼,然後是25萬戶這樣的部分,也就是說你房子的數目可以在一般的平價可以接受的狀況之下才能有效的抑制這個房價的高漲。部長,這個百萬的這個政見內容我看過了,我想社會住宅這部分是要做,這變成中長期,但短期內我就想就教於院長的部分,就剛剛的管制措施當中有幾個面向,一呢?"},{"start":268.012,"end":288.131,"text":"議員﹗"},{"start":289.039,"end":306.382,"text":"當然透過利息跟財政的手段還是有其他的考量措施,但目前我們整批在做,比較大規模在做的,現在達到一個量,就是剛剛劉會長所說的興建社會住宅的方式。興建社會住宅是一個軌道嘛,現在資本集中財是一個大的問題嘛。"},{"start":307.023,"end":331.543,"text":"指紋其中大的問題的情況底下,如果說你要透過財政手段的話,那不是房地合一2.0還會有3.0嗎?這是其中之一嘛。或者呢實價登錄還有作為不足的地方,對不對?或者還是說我們平均地權條例還在修改,還是你認為啊下個禮拜第六波的管制出來的時候,第六波的信用管制出來的時候,要加強這個力道,是不是?"},{"start":332.671,"end":332.811,"text":"主席"},{"start":352.819,"end":352.939,"text":"是的﹖"},{"start":375.024,"end":382.655,"text":"另外一個問題也是年輕人非常期待的問題我先讓您看一下民眾薪資三條線這三條線當中我們過往從106年到112年這邊的統計起來我們每次遇到所謂的通膨問題或高物價問題"},{"start":390.726,"end":390.746,"text":"﹚廣告"},{"start":412.679,"end":423.464,"text":"但是相對而言我們實質薪資才成長4%左右也就是一年之間成長不到1%每年增加大概532塊拉長10年的幅度來計算基本工資在調了32%總薪資的平均大概25.9還有中位數的成長大概16.6這我不會認為是勞動部的問題這還有包括國發部其他人都有相關的問題"},{"start":439.765,"end":460.903,"text":"這種情況底下我們要看的再讓院長看一張表。原因在哪裡?你看GDP的占比當中企業的盈餘大賺但是員工相對不漲,薪資不漲。有漲,漲的不多。原因在哪裡?收估者的報酬占整個GDP的占比日本占52.6、美國占52.2、南韓占52.1"},{"start":468.55,"end":488.048,"text":"臺灣佔433.9%,抱歉這一份報告是誰做的?是央行做的不是我做的。另外一個部分營業額佔GDP的佔比,臺灣佔多少?34.4%,你看日本相對而言連我們一半都不到13.1%,簡單的講營業的部分大部分的企業都攏在他身上,不願意給勞工。"},{"start":489.927,"end":511.774,"text":"講白一點嘛,臺灣的企業來跟院長,剛剛院長你也說啊,水啊沒有問題啊,電啊沒有問題啊,對不對,土地啊都沒有問題,什麼每個企業大財團來要的時候都是要這五個。我想郭部長非常清楚嘛,但是呢,我要問的是,當其他國家的企業對員工比較大方的時候,我們的企業、我們的財團有比較大方嗎?"},{"start":513.148,"end":528.53,"text":"很顯然嘛從這GDP的占比來說是沒有的是沒有的那我是希望說齁那個院長你除了解決企業的無缺的時候你能不能解決勞工期待的薪資成長的這一缺我想就叫院長"},{"start":529.687,"end":538.532,"text":"提高薪資一直是政府長期努力的方向。我們跟委員看的應該同一份資料。我們的基本工資從20,008元調漲到27,470元。我們的時薪從120元提高到183元。這都是這幾年我們所努力到的。"},{"start":547.716,"end":574.782,"text":"對,它有足底墊高的效果。過去我們的軍工教育有拉抬的效應,但是很不好意思,中間這一群的壽星階級顯然就是沒有提高嘛。顯然在GDP的成果真的沒有下盛嘛。就是委員所說的企業應該把更多的利潤分給員工。對,台灣的企業不夠慷慨。所以我們一直在推普惠大眾的各項政策。我們一直在推普惠大眾的各項政策。"},{"start":576.042,"end":578.623,"text":"回答委員的話,我想現在的企業應該會來照顧這個員工,因為現在已經找不到人"},{"start":599.97,"end":618.921,"text":"所以你的這個福利越高就越容易招到人?話說是如此,但是登出來的薪資還不是很高啦。部長,以你的企業界的人脈,我想有一個直接的建議啦。過往日本企業整個這一個金團聯出來的時候,安倍都跟他講說要加薪啦。"},{"start":620.462,"end":646.522,"text":"現在加薪的幅度超過過去30年耶!超過過去30年耶!部長,你要不要找一下那個三三會把他找來?院長,三三會就是台灣的金團聯嘛,找來請他們帶頭來加薪一下有沒有可能?找他們來喝一下咖啡?都全部找來好不好?都跟他們講一下好不好?今年把他列為一個加薪年啊,"},{"start":647.162,"end":653.713,"text":"因為我們做了很多政策工具的努力基本工資還有包軍公教政府可以做得出這些而已嘛其他的部分就要靠私部門了不是嗎?"},{"start":654.926,"end":677.034,"text":"好,院長,我期待你的表現。另外的部分,謝謝院長的直接的回覆。另外一個部分,院長,最近這個徽達熱、AMD熱一堆,這個基本上都是一種銀幣效應。這種銀幣效應就像之前,這個3奈米、2奈米,大家搶著台積電去一樣的道理。"},{"start":677.774,"end":700.447,"text":"但問題是這些區的過程當中我覺得院長很多人都要我們台積電但是我們台積電我必須跟你講我們台灣有通過國家核心關鍵技術清單是比照美國出口管制規則的EAR畫出一個14奈米的紅線但是這個14奈米的紅線國外希望我們去的時候都希望先進製程"},{"start":705.769,"end":725.746,"text":"可是呢我們現在整個負荷得了的情況底下在水電的這種能源負擔這麼大的情況底下其實嚴格來說我們應該輸出一些成熟製程來建立一個科技外交的可能性一來解決我們的能源上的壓力二來呢可以建立這個整個價值同盟的一個外交關係這一點你應該是贊成的吧"},{"start":726.274,"end":746.101,"text":"沒有錯,我們國科會吳主委也一直強調,不僅是先進製程,在成熟製程我們也要讓國內的這個力道能夠再加強。在怎麼輸出外面的奈米數跟本國的奈米數,因為奈米加1嘛。本國的奈米數一定是在外面的奈米數的奈米減1嘛。所以先進是留在我們這邊嘛,對不對?"},{"start":748.715,"end":772.347,"text":"委員的看法跟我們吳主委的看法非常非常的一致。是這樣子,可是我們現在外面風聲的都不是14奈米以上,現在聽到是14奈米以下,包括熊本的三場四場都不是如此,可能要弄好,不是無條件的出書,這要想清楚,更何況因為我的選區來自南科,這個部分請那個國發會那個劉主委,"},{"start":777.551,"end":784.621,"text":"主委把持清楚另外一個部分部長因為時間有限剩下的部分我要請教你的部分"},{"start":785.646,"end":809.282,"text":"因為我們過往不是針對非達也好,接著AMD也好,或者台積電2奈米去高雄也好,碰到的問題不是生產的問題,生產緊接著來就生活的問題。過往我們把南科設置在那邊的時候只有生產的考量,並沒有真正生活的考量。以至於交通的改善不足,公路運輸也好,軌道運輸也好,先進運輸也好,沒有一個足夠的。"},{"start":810.27,"end":823.857,"text":"沒有一個足夠的,真的,到現在才縫縫補補啊,拖山蠟寺啊,以前簡直是啊,這些整個藍科區、科學園區,周遭的這區域都拖隊的狀況,地方政府才縫縫補補起來。"},{"start":825.356,"end":849.371,"text":"我想說用一個插隊的概念,我想拜託一下院長,周遭園區通通都是新興發展區,這些新興發展區的人口越來越多,我們要留住這些人才的情況底下,生活周遭的問題要把它解決,一來住宅的問題,二來交通最大的問題,公路運輸要有一個全盤性的思維,把南科做為一個著心,輻射性的思考,"},{"start":850.091,"end":865.191,"text":"另外還有先進運輸包括現階段最重要的深綠線的一個捷運路線可以連結到現在揮打可能區的沙崙所在地以及南科這個雙核心的做思考來做串聯。三來還有包括"},{"start":865.652,"end":866.772,"text":"拜託你,你不用插隊的思維來思考這個問題。"},{"start":887.301,"end":911.38,"text":"委員這整套的想法非常具有戰略觀,我想如果能夠跟國際的大廠來做這樣詳細的說明,你所謂的沙崙台南一定是相當具有吸引力的。對,還有包括周遭還有很多生活園區啊,我們的西北土地比較寬廣嘛,還有它裡頭有很多區域都要做一些通盤性的檢討,當通盤性的檢討的時候就應該把它視為南科的生活特區嘛。"},{"start":912.06,"end":912.3,"text":"拜託院長了,謝謝。"}]}}}}